Daniel Schmachtenberger on Exponential Technology, Transitionary Systems, and Game B

Daniel Schmachtenberger joins Erik on this episode. He is a civilization designer interested in social architecture.
They discuss:
- The unsustainability of economic growth.
- Why what’s best for the long-term is often also best for others.
- Asymmetries in markets and why markets are not actually self-correcting.
- What a healthy version of social media might look like.
- What Daniel means when he says “humans are not evolutionarily precedented creatures” and what the implications of that are.
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Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg and is produced by Brett Bolkowy.

[@JonathanDavisKookaburra]

DS lists 4 primary categories of risk (along with many others) that are converging to create the metacrisis. AI risk, nuclear risk, biotech risk, environmental destruction. We have to solve all of these at once and this feels intractable. However when DS points out that there are only really 3 things that need to be removed from all systems and all of the biggest challenges we are facing will dissolve. Remove perverse economic incentive. Remove all externalising of harm while internalising benefit. Remove multipolar traps aka, tragedy of the commons aka race to the bottom dynamics.
Then at the deepest level, the psychological driver creating all of these root causes (aka generator functions) is the problem of the 'emissary' half of our brain thinking it is the 'master', as described by Iain Mcgilchrist.
The process of helping the left hemisphere mode to loosen it's dogmatic grip on the idea that the philosophy of science is the be-all-and-end-all is the core of healing the problem of the emissary thinking it is ruling the kingdom, which is the absolute core of the metacrisis. Understanding that there is reality beyond what can be measured and repeated gets the left brain to respect for the potential wisdom of the right hemisphere mode of awareness.

[@c3bhm]

"Oh that's all??" :)

[@danielnelson3136]

This however raises the question: At what cost, if we do remove all that you listed? Will we lose our humanity in the process?

[@bocckoka]

Where the fuck is the Thorium research? - this sentence made my little hearth overflow with joy. (Tbh, there is Thorium research at private companies both in the US and EU, but Daniel is right that it's state funded in China. But the usual traps, momentums and counter-interests apply, so no Thorium for us.)

[@paulchristin]

When was this recorded?

[@Philo_sophia_YT]

November 08, 2019

[@danielnelson3136]

This was a good podcast IMHO. Daniel Schmachtenberger is a great speaker, albeit he's a bit too broad and general and abstract, similarly to Jordan Peterson yet I prefer speakers that can do both broad abstract speaking and concise detailed rhetoric, which IMO Daniel does less concise rhetoric and detailed examples versus more general broad wide strokes of many topics across the world and across history. Only little critique I have of Daniel Schmachtenberger is him saying 'Meditations on Moloch' is required reading, which relatively depends on the person, their values, stage of development, cognition, morality, personality typing/traits, language use, and understandings of life and reality so far. IMHO it's like me saying the Holy Bible, the Quran, Quantum theory, and other modals are required reading across the board? That to me is too simplified and too foolish in saying this one book is required reading when there's so many factors involved that make one book required reading versus another book less required reading, IMO it's relative. Personally I don't like that book, the title and the word Moloch because it points to some ancient Canaanite god they worshipped by sacrificing young ones via burning alive, so in my view it's an abysmal analogy and example for the meta crisis and arms race which I strongly disagree on. Other areas I have disagreements is his takes on optimism and the dark triad, but other than those few areas I mostly agree on other takes.

[@Rhimeson]

Host word count: 11
Schmactenberger: 11,000,0000

[@c3bhm]

Schmachtenberger un-RAR'd: 11,000,000,000

[@danielnelson3136]

Word count /=/ more intelligence, otherwise Jorden Peterson is both very intelligent and wise enough to know how deeply biased, ideological and deluded his political takes are and have humility to remove himself from political takes and just focus on his psychological takes. Yet you see almost zero self awareness from JP's own biases and ideological motivations, so is more words and more abstract sophistry intelligence?

[@Rhimeson]

​@@danielnelson3136 No I would not say they are strongly correlated, however intelligent people obviously use a larger vocabulary and can draw from a wider array of fields, can see and balance the complexities and nuances of different sides in an honest and evidence focussed way. A discussion such as this one should ideally aim to creatively explore specific questions together and to sharpen each others ideas in a complimentary back and forth way, rather than a totally one sided splurge of prepackaged ideas and thoughts,often only vaguely related to the question just asked. I think Schmactenberger often fails in this regard, a classic case of always being the Smartest Guy in the Room Syndrome,maybe born from his home schooling and having spent the majority of his intellectual life in I expect a solitary and bookish way, maybe also his parents not challenging and pushing back on his ideas. In regards to JP I would say he is a classic case of how fame and a resulting hugely inflated sense of ego ,as well as pandering to his huge audience and algorithyms , has turned what was initially a curious,humble and open mind, into one increasingly lacking self awareness, and deeply caught up in his own idealogically motivated and often defensive narratives th

[@danielnelson3136]

@@Rhimeson Intelligence is far more than IQ, or linguistic or mathematical intelligence. There are many types of intelligences out there, from specific to general intelligence. The concept of IQ and the strong bias towards mathematical and linguistic intelligence is a mostly western culture idea indoctrinated via schooling, western education, and many other factors and stages of development. IMHO Daniel Schmachtenberger isn't really a true polymath in that to me he's more versatile with language and his ability to speak and listen, and know broadly many other worldly topics, yet I do partly agree with you that he's the byproduct of good privileged parenting and home schooling and high quality tutors and some early childhood experiences that shaped who he is today.

[@andybaldman]

What a weird intersection. I've been listening to The Cognitive Revolution for a year, but been a fan of Dan for many years. Even though this is old, what a strange thing to find in my feed.

[@yannik1679]

What do you mean by old?

[@yannik1679]

Wasn't this recorded recently?

[@andybaldman]

@@yannik1679 I don't think it was recent. From the content they discuss, it seems old. Too many folks are reposting old content with no dates lately (probably to get it seen by AI scrapers), and it's annoying.

[@c3bhm]

@@yannik1679 Nov2019 - says so up above

[@c3bhm]

@@yannik1679 No - Nov2019 - says so up above

[@rayhetherington7989]

Bless you, YAHWEH 🙏

[@danielnelson3136]

I do like Daniel Schmachtenberger, even though he sounds complex and broad strokes many world issues, just that I prefer if he's more concise and give real world clear examples. For example, BLM movement and their request of defunding the police, this is an ideologically and emotionally driven decision and demand, which from Daniel Schmachtenberger's view is foolish because that group didn't spend enough time self educating on how finance, business, marketing, politics and economics works. Great changes require higher funding for better policing, better instructors, better training programs and so on, yet to think by defunding the police or any system from needed further funding makes an entire systemic issue get resolved is BS naive way of thinking, a very foolish thinking, just look at what happened to Chicago and Portland that local government and local police capitulated to defunding their police, a nightmarish situation. This plus weak leadership and too much decentralization and no centralization ,planning and organized protesting led to this movement collapsing onto itself!