"You can get groomed at any age." Thank you. Your explanation of the body’s response to trauma is the best and most complete explanation for my experiences. I appreciate your work and this conversation.
I respect and honor Mia's courage to talk so openly about her awful experiences. And I am grateful for her doing so, because it shows others that they are not alone, and it hopefully helps dissolve the narrative about sexual revolution and consent.
When I worked in IT in Luton in the UK about 60% of NRI men I worked with regularly used prostitutes. I knew this because they were open about it and said it was 'normal' for a guy to do. Most of the men came from middle class Indian families. I would sometimes hear them talk about wanting to marry a 'good girl' from India. A lot of the women they paid for sex were migrant women from Eastern Europe. When i asked them to consider that these women might have been trafficked they didn't care because they either said its not their problem or that because they gave them money that they were owed something. These women worked in brothels some of which were a short walk from the central police station. I should stress that I refer to Indian IT workers here only because I worked closely with a lot of them and that men who seek this out probably come from every background out there. From speaking to them I also got the impression that many of them picked up this activity from other men in their universities back in India.
This is a difficult topic to talk about, and made harder when you have experienced such trauma. I found your perspectives very valuable on a personal level and will definitely be purchasing Mia's book, as well as sharing. Thank you, Mia, for your bravery, and thank you both for this interview.
@@ravencole8727 And your point is?… I see no other topics raised between Mia and Louise, than I've heard countless times before. Adding morality to health issues, and not giving individuals personal agency, only talking about work ethics when it's bad, not talking about differences between different kinds of work (which exist), conflating sex-positivity with ruthless behaviour.
And also, crucially, the standard progressive response to crappy working conditions of "join a union" doesn't apply to prostitution as it does elsewhere, because at the very moment these women are earning their money they are also uniquely vulnerable. No matter how much you shout "sex work is work", it doesn't follow that it's feasible to fight for the rights of a prostitute the same way you would fight for the rights of, say, people working in Amazon fulfilment centres If a guy goes in there without a condom, say, or if he goes in the rear, or if he's physically violent, or any of the other things that a prostitute may have as red lines, then what's she supposed to do? Politely tell the man that it's not in her contract? How do you think that's going to end up?
Depends on the rape or the assault. Being punched and falling on concrete, becoming brain damaged or even dying, is worse than a non violent, she said, he said, rape.
@@grannyannie2948 definitely not, being raped is worse than being punched and falling on concrete. When you’re raped You have to live with that. Dying would not be worse.
52:03 I suspect the other reason why advocates of the trade got so upset with the rent issue is that it burst their 'choice' bubble. They understood that during Covid, some women couldn't do their normal work, and were facing potential homelessness as a result. Therefore the exchange of their body for rent was not a free-market choice, which according to their theory it would have been in other circumstances. It's the one free market that left-wing men support, until state-owned not for profit brothels are established. The fact that some women are always at risk of poverty and homelessness, regardless of Covid, doesn't seem to matter to advocates of the trade. Ironically, society seems to have no problem with the concept of the rent boy. The Pet Shop Boys even had a hit record singing about the phenomenon.
@@alexpotts6520 Whenever I come across people who are both Socialists and also for the decriminalization of the sex-trade, I have to wonder.... It seems like state-owned brothels are the logical outcome of both positions. Or maybe prostitution is the one type of private-enterprise they approve of.
Her experience of being groomed very nearly mirrors my own, minus the sex trade part, down to the feeling of culpability. The liberal feminist camp would tell you it's just sex. Obtaining that "yes" for consent really is trivial in today's sexual climate, it requires no awareness or examination for anyone involved.
I know some people were pushing for "enthusiastic consent" as the new standard, supposedly in recognition of this problem. The liberal feminist camp wants to have it both ways: to keep a vibrant culture of recreational sex detached from commitment, while making sure everyone taking part is consenting "enthusiastically" or some other variation of whole-heartedly. Totally delusional about human nature.
Thank you, Miss Perry. Fascinating discussion! As a model photographer and consultant who suffered multiple childhood traumas and sexual abuse, and being male, I think I have a unique perspective on this issue. As a photographer, my personal and professional standards far exceeded that of the industry, especially among freelancers. But the majority of young women didn't value those standards. Instead, they put themselves at risk and focused solely on money. Many were willing to do anything for a chance at fame and easy money and seemed fully aware of the power of youthful beauty and sex appeal. Other than getting paid, some got free rent and received clothes, vacations, and other gifts. One enterprising young model learned photography from her many photoshoots and eventually created custom porn with her girlfriends. Then the internet and digital photography became widely used, which created systemic distortions throughout the industry. Amateur photographers convincingly misrepresented their skills, experience, and success. And inexperienced models started demanding and earning pro wages, usually paid by disreputable photographers with a questionable agenda. With recent technological advances and lack of regulation, cam modeling exaggerated those industry distortions and dynamics even more. And it's now promoted as empowering and safe for young women and a legitimate way to realize their financial goals, unaware of the consequences, personally and societally. In my opinion, this is the most underreported story of our time, with potentially dire consequences for our young men and women and society.
What do you mean they didn’t value those standards? Could you elaborate? And why would they not focus on money? I mean… What else would those industries have to offer them? I mean that respectfully. In terms of empowerment, it’s kind of a dumb word because it’s very subjective. If powerlessness is measured in financial struggle and freedom is measured in wealth/capital, then anything that makes good money will be perceived as empowering relative to the worse alternatives.
@@LoneWulf278 What I meant about not valuing those standards is that many aspiring models chose money over professionalism, safety, respect, and creating a solid foundation for a successful modeling career. They only focus on short-term financial gain. That is why many get into trouble (nude photos on the internet, sexual assault, extortion, drug addiction, porn, etc.). The imbalance of power and their naivety leave them vulnerable. Sadly, technology and the progressive, feminist narrative have insidiously given cam models, and women in general, the illusion of safety and control. In my research and experience with cam models, I found extortion, coercion, depression, suicidal ideation, and possible human trafficking and underage models. There were also very few boundaries. After my experience, I became depressed and needed a break because what I found connected with other negative socioeconomic trends that, in my estimation, are destroying society. Besides money, many photographers and models engage in the traditional modeling industry for creative expression. Youthful, feminine beauty has inspired humans and shaped society since we first started painting on cave walls. You can see this at the finest museums and historical sites. And for some, like myself, creative expression helps to cope with trauma and related personal issues. I like to say that beauty (in all forms) is my sanctuary. Regarding empowerment, yes, money is empowering. Financial security gives you many more options for your life. But is it worth it if you abandon your core values, put yourself at risk, and may experience negative, potentially life-changing consequences? Regardless of circumstances and outcome, what I consider empowering is the individual freedom to choose how I spend my money, what I consume (body autonomy), what information I have access to, what I think and believe, who I associate with, and having a free market and privacy to pursue my goals. That combined with strong values and work ethic is the key to success and happiness.
@@Dino-kk7ir I see. Thank you for the clarification. I mean… If they only value money, then what they’re doing probably isn’t much of a sacrifice of their values. It would seem that everything aligns. I might be biased, but I don’t think women who work in those types of industries are necessarily selected for long-term goals or maturity. But of course, I’m probably wrong. 🤷♀️ I think there’s always been a strong disconnect between men and women when it comes to beauty. Men tend to see it as a relief or a refuge. But women will often describe it as laborious or an obligation. Even the term “sex work” (and the reaction to it) speaks to this disconnect in perspective. I think it’s important to remember that the cost-benefit analysis of these industries will vary across the different roles that we’re playing. It may be disheartening for colleagues to not share the same passion or experience. But in reality, their behavior is expected. Their short-term goals seem practical given the fact that their success in that industry is limited according to their youth, which is very fleeting. So idk. I don’t know why liberal feminists have chosen this agenda as an appropriate hill to die on. I share your confusion about that. 😐 Being charitable here- I think relative to traditional adult/erotic industries prior to the internet, cam girls have more flexibility over their time, environment, or customers. But again, I can’t be sure. It’s just what they tend to say. Are there other risks? Sure. But I’m pretty sure that these are the specific things they’re referring to when they speak of greater control or safety. So in terms of those things, it may not be an illusion for some- particularly those who are, in fact, doing it voluntarily. To your other point, it kind of echoes the moral panic that people have been having around sexuality for ages. Literally every generation has complained about society crumbling. I would need to know what you are associating with a healthy society before I understand exactly what you’re getting at. What socioeconomic trends are you speaking of?
@@LoneWulf278 Examples of negative socioeconomic trends are the demonization and breakdown of traditional values, family and relationships, low birthrates, widening wealth gap via bloated government and systemic market distortions, hyper-sexualization and monetization via big tech/social media (often with parental support), particularly among young girls, single-parent households, particularly among minorities, loss of work ethic and usable skills, fixation on fame, status, and money rather than character and integrity, etc. The difference between the concerns of prior generations and today is the speed at which society is changing, the loss of traditional forms of communication and evolutionary cues (body language, facial gestures, touch, eye contact, etc.), and the ability to influence the beliefs and behaviors of the masses, create facades, and censor via technology (deep fakes, AI, social media, entertainment industry, complicit media, academia, etc.). Of course, I can't convey a lifetime of experience, observation, wisdom, and research via chat or the comment section. It's all so overwhelming and complex. But the major generational trends are clear, and the empirical data and history suggest that the outcome could be devastating for society and our future. And these trends never stop abruptly or change course. They continue until completion. Similar to the cycles in nature. Ironically, this is also a time of great opportunity. But we need to understand what's happening and make the right choices to navigate it safely, which is incredibly difficult. For example, my brother lost over $40,000 from his retirement account over the last few years (and valuable time) because he listened to the experts. And my best friend died because she was denied medical care for the same reason. And there are many more examples. Anyway, I'm getting a bit off-topic, but it's all connected.
I consented to marriage aged 17, my husband was a twenty year old apprentice. I believe girls can consent at 17, but with the support of friends and family. And that's what I feel is missing from this ladies story. Where were her friends and family?
@@grannyannie2948 I also think that consenting to a positive, healthy role as wife (with your parents' blessing) is wildly different from consenting to a soul-destroying activity like prostitution.
@@AS-qy1zz Exactly. I am fascinated by Early Modern English History. And I find it fascinating that marriage existed between the parental and child veto. Both parents and children of marriageable age (16 in my country at that time) could propose a match. But either side could refuse.
It's illuminating and refreshing to hear your clarity and consistency here. Your logic needs to be more widely used and promoted. For my part, when I saw the object lesson on consent that used the analogy of offering a cup of tea, I thought that was one of the stupidest things ever. To compare sex to tea is a grotesque trivialization of sexuality. It's the same staggering irony you've called out here: completely ignoring the reality of the human body - especially the female body - and how it relates and responds to something so deep and primal.
Naomi Wolf's book Vagina has a really interesting examination of the neuroscience of the effect of sex on women. The argument is that due to the high density and connectivity of neurons from the vagina to the brain, the quality of sex can drastically affect emotional health.
Becsuse it isn't. It might make sense from a short term female perspective. But not from a long term human point of view. If you choose to crimininalise male sexuality - it will not end well for anyone!
@@jonahtwhale1779 The Nordic model doesn't criminalise male sexuality. Pimping and exploitation aren't an inherent part of that sexuality. We had millions of years of evolution before money was invented.
@@jonahtwhale1779 female perspective IS human perspective. females are fully human. if buying performative one sided so called service is 'male sexuality' what do all the men who do not have to pay do when they have sex? do they have female sexuality? prostitution and patriarchy are neither natural nor healthy. its just rot thats stuck to our boots and doesnt know when to get lost.
Not sure what to think of the Nordic model, aside from it's name being a bit misplaced. The model is only in use in Sweden, Norway and little Iceland. In Denmark and Finland it's fully legal to buy and sell sex, except pimping is illegal. In Finland there is a law push towards increasing the legality of prostitution so it's not even going in the same direction as Swedish/Norwegian law. Additionally the Nordic model has increased the number of so called Thai massage places and a report from about five years ago noted that up to 1/3rd of them were selling sexual services. I'm wondering if it would be better to have prostitution illegal, but sanctioned in a way where the woman engaged in prostitution would be re-educated and re-located to another area in the country that would help her cut ties with whatever caused her to become a prostitute. Having followed the Nordic discussion around this, I mostly see a lot of Girl Boss type prostitutes talking for why the activity should remain (or become) fully legal.
This was a very interesting interview. What made we think was the thought of the daughters of the 'liberal' women'. They would be horrified if their daughters were doing sex work, however, for virtue points, they are happy for our daughters to be sex workers.
Ladies, do you get prior enthusiastic, verbal consent for every activity you engage in with your sexual partner? Or do you interpret his body language? There is a legal term for men who infer consent from his partners body language - that term is rapist. If women do not seek and obtain verbal consent, are they gRapists too? Why aren't women held to the same legal standards men are?
Convenient that isn't it! The evil Patriarchy conveniently defines rape so only women can accuse someone of it! Why would the Patriarchy give women the legal advantage over men? Makes zero sense does it - unless we live in a society which routinely advantages women over men! Sex without consent is the vommon definition of rape and women have changed the laws to require enthusiastic and on going consent - but only from the woman. There d o es not seem to be any requirement for the woman to obtain consent from the man at all - just like with pregnancy, abortion and other reproductive rights! Men really do need to wake up to this double s standard!
I'm not aware of a legal definition that requires men to obtain affirmative verbal consent to every action in a romantic situation. Of course to do so would be nonsensical for both men and women.
Perhaps it depends on the environment that the girls is growing up in. For example, some research shows that fatherlessness increases the chances for a girl to be abused or taken advantage of very easily.
Never had sex for three years and he gave you money to show up? Not really sure how that was abuse. She's old enough to get married after all..take some responsibility and use common sense and understand you were part of the problem
She, as a teenage girl with limited knowledge of sexual power dynamics, was clearly preyed upon by a much older creep with a fetish, and this is how you see it? He treated her as an object for his own pleasure, and you see her as somehow culpable? You have a twisted understanding of this kind of grooming situation.
Yes it was peculiar from the start. She was unconscious drunk in a public park at the age of sixteen, and was assaulted whilst blacked out?? What?? She has acquired some psychological theories, but rather uses them to deflect from her own culpability. The real work of understanding trauma does not come from a text book, no matter how authoritative, it comes from the looking in the mirror, with unshakeable clarity. This is difficult. So easier alternatives are chosen.
@@bh_486 classic victim blaming. how being does unconscious mean one 'deserves to be raped' or is responsible for being raped? culpability for what exactly? the real work of understanding trauma lies in realizing the world we live in is a rape culture patriarchy, filled with people ready to jump to defend rape and rapists and shift the blame on the victim. being unconscious - for whatever reason - doesnt imply consent. substance abuse at that age is in itself often result of trauma, - living in the world so intensely misogynistic that it literary blames the female rape victim for her own rape is in itself a reason for why so many women and girls use alcohol and drugs to cope with reality. rape culture apologetics with no shred of most BASIC human empathy.
@@Paul.Morgan Yes indeed, If I was her, I would want to know, how on earth I allowed myself to drink into oblivion, as a girl. She wasn't chased down and violently attacked. The trauma should surely be 'how did I allow this to happen?' The trauma is not - I was walking home and randomly attacked. And the story continues in the same vein - it is as if she has lost self ownership. That is scary. Because it wasn't the assault that did that. It was that loss that allowed the assault.
"You can get groomed at any age." Thank you. Your explanation of the body’s response to trauma is the best and most complete explanation for my experiences. I appreciate your work and this conversation.
The whole gay pride thing is victims of grooming trying to justify what happened to them.
I respect and honor Mia's courage to talk so openly about her awful experiences. And I am grateful for her doing so, because it shows others that they are not alone, and it hopefully helps dissolve the narrative about sexual revolution and consent.
But where were her parents?
So back to Victorian age then? Conservatism will be the saviour from ourselves? Not so sure about that.
When I worked in IT in Luton in the UK about 60% of NRI men I worked with regularly used prostitutes. I knew this because they were open about it and said it was 'normal' for a guy to do. Most of the men came from middle class Indian families. I would sometimes hear them talk about wanting to marry a 'good girl' from India. A lot of the women they paid for sex were migrant women from Eastern Europe. When i asked them to consider that these women might have been trafficked they didn't care because they either said its not their problem or that because they gave them money that they were owed something. These women worked in brothels some of which were a short walk from the central police station. I should stress that I refer to Indian IT workers here only because I worked closely with a lot of them and that men who seek this out probably come from every background out there. From speaking to them I also got the impression that many of them picked up this activity from other men in their universities back in India.
I'm interested - is how prevalent is this kind of thing in India itself? Or is it simply an additional perk to heading west for these men?
"NRI" is Non-Resident Indians?
@@jenniferlawrence2701 Yes
I was told by an older man that every man has the card of an escort in his wallet, that this is the norm.
@@black-aliss I don't and never have. I think I have the same urges and need as the next man but to this day don't understand why some men do it.
This is a difficult topic to talk about, and made harder when you have experienced such trauma. I found your perspectives very valuable on a personal level and will definitely be purchasing Mia's book, as well as sharing. Thank you, Mia, for your bravery, and thank you both for this interview.
It's brilliant, I highly recommend it!!
She's brilliant, and spot on in her analysis of the sex trade. Thanks for the interview, Louise.
Great conversation.
Another great book is 'The Body Keeps the Score by Dr Bessel van der Kolk' for trauma and post traumatic growth.
Very powerful testimony from Mia of her personal experiences and great discussion of liberal hypocrisy on this issue, thank you both
In where lies the hypocrisy?
@@pera.j.andersson 47:29
@@ravencole8727 And your point is?… I see no other topics raised between Mia and Louise, than I've heard countless times before. Adding morality to health issues, and not giving individuals personal agency, only talking about work ethics when it's bad, not talking about differences between different kinds of work (which exist), conflating sex-positivity with ruthless behaviour.
@@pera.j.andersson My point was that I found it to be a great discussion. You don't have to agree
Excellent point that it’s not like any business. In the same way
Rape is not equal to hitting a woman, or spitting at her; it’s infinitely worse.
And also, crucially, the standard progressive response to crappy working conditions of "join a union" doesn't apply to prostitution as it does elsewhere, because at the very moment these women are earning their money they are also uniquely vulnerable. No matter how much you shout "sex work is work", it doesn't follow that it's feasible to fight for the rights of a prostitute the same way you would fight for the rights of, say, people working in Amazon fulfilment centres
If a guy goes in there without a condom, say, or if he goes in the rear, or if he's physically violent, or any of the other things that a prostitute may have as red lines, then what's she supposed to do? Politely tell the man that it's not in her contract? How do you think that's going to end up?
Depends on the rape or the assault. Being punched and falling on concrete, becoming brain damaged or even dying, is worse than a non violent, she said, he said, rape.
@@grannyannie2948 definitely not, being raped is worse than being punched and falling on concrete. When you’re raped You have to live with that. Dying would not be worse.
@ My Sister's Alive.
I said a she said, he said situation, or in other words a one night stand you now regret. Most people would not rather be dead.
52:03 I suspect the other reason why advocates of the trade got so upset with the rent issue is that it burst their 'choice' bubble. They understood that during Covid, some women couldn't do their normal work, and were facing potential homelessness as a result. Therefore the exchange of their body for rent was not a free-market choice, which according to their theory it would have been in other circumstances. It's the one free market that left-wing men support, until state-owned not for profit brothels are established.
The fact that some women are always at risk of poverty and homelessness, regardless of Covid, doesn't seem to matter to advocates of the trade.
Ironically, society seems to have no problem with the concept of the rent boy. The Pet Shop Boys even had a hit record singing about the phenomenon.
I just felt a little bit of sick come up at the thought of "state-owned brothels".
@@alexpotts6520 Whenever I come across people who are both Socialists and also for the decriminalization of the sex-trade, I have to wonder.... It seems like state-owned brothels are the logical outcome of both positions. Or maybe prostitution is the one type of private-enterprise they approve of.
@@jenniferlawrence2701 The workers will own the means of seduction...
The ultimate in socialist sex positivity is free sex for all on the NHS.
It's my observation that the left loves anything that is demeaning, and destructive of families and or western civilization.
Her experience of being groomed very nearly mirrors my own, minus the sex trade part, down to the feeling of culpability. The liberal feminist camp would tell you it's just sex. Obtaining that "yes" for consent really is trivial in today's sexual climate, it requires no awareness or examination for anyone involved.
I know some people were pushing for "enthusiastic consent" as the new standard, supposedly in recognition of this problem. The liberal feminist camp wants to have it both ways: to keep a vibrant culture of recreational sex detached from commitment, while making sure everyone taking part is consenting "enthusiastically" or some other variation of whole-heartedly. Totally delusional about human nature.
Thank you, Miss Perry. Fascinating discussion! As a model photographer and consultant who suffered multiple childhood traumas and sexual abuse, and being male, I think I have a unique perspective on this issue.
As a photographer, my personal and professional standards far exceeded that of the industry, especially among freelancers. But the majority of young women didn't value those standards. Instead, they put themselves at risk and focused solely on money. Many were willing to do anything for a chance at fame and easy money and seemed fully aware of the power of youthful beauty and sex appeal.
Other than getting paid, some got free rent and received clothes, vacations, and other gifts. One enterprising young model learned photography from her many photoshoots and eventually created custom porn with her girlfriends.
Then the internet and digital photography became widely used, which created systemic distortions throughout the industry. Amateur photographers convincingly misrepresented their skills, experience, and success. And inexperienced models started demanding and earning pro wages, usually paid by disreputable photographers with a questionable agenda.
With recent technological advances and lack of regulation, cam modeling exaggerated those industry distortions and dynamics even more. And it's now promoted as empowering and safe for young women and a legitimate way to realize their financial goals, unaware of the consequences, personally and societally.
In my opinion, this is the most underreported story of our time, with potentially dire consequences for our young men and women and society.
What do you mean they didn’t value those standards? Could you elaborate?
And why would they not focus on money? I mean… What else would those industries have to offer them? I mean that respectfully.
In terms of empowerment, it’s kind of a dumb word because it’s very subjective. If powerlessness is measured in financial struggle and freedom is measured in wealth/capital, then anything that makes good money will be perceived as empowering relative to the worse alternatives.
@@LoneWulf278 What I meant about not valuing those standards is that many aspiring models chose money over professionalism, safety, respect, and creating a solid foundation for a successful modeling career. They only focus on short-term financial gain. That is why many get into trouble (nude photos on the internet, sexual assault, extortion, drug addiction, porn, etc.). The imbalance of power and their naivety leave them vulnerable.
Sadly, technology and the progressive, feminist narrative have insidiously given cam models, and women in general, the illusion of safety and control. In my research and experience with cam models, I found extortion, coercion, depression, suicidal ideation, and possible human trafficking and underage models. There were also very few boundaries.
After my experience, I became depressed and needed a break because what I found connected with other negative socioeconomic trends that, in my estimation, are destroying society.
Besides money, many photographers and models engage in the traditional modeling industry for creative expression. Youthful, feminine beauty has inspired humans and shaped society since we first started painting on cave walls. You can see this at the finest museums and historical sites. And for some, like myself, creative expression helps to cope with trauma and related personal issues. I like to say that beauty (in all forms) is my sanctuary.
Regarding empowerment, yes, money is empowering. Financial security gives you many more options for your life. But is it worth it if you abandon your core values, put yourself at risk, and may experience negative, potentially life-changing consequences?
Regardless of circumstances and outcome, what I consider empowering is the individual freedom to choose how I spend my money, what I consume (body autonomy), what information I have access to, what I think and believe, who I associate with, and having a free market and privacy to pursue my goals. That combined with strong values and work ethic is the key to success and happiness.
@@Dino-kk7ir I see. Thank you for the clarification. I mean… If they only value money, then what they’re doing probably isn’t much of a sacrifice of their values. It would seem that everything aligns. I might be biased, but I don’t think women who work in those types of industries are necessarily selected for long-term goals or maturity. But of course, I’m probably wrong. 🤷♀️
I think there’s always been a strong disconnect between men and women when it comes to beauty. Men tend to see it as a relief or a refuge. But women will often describe it as laborious or an obligation. Even the term “sex work” (and the reaction to it) speaks to this disconnect in perspective. I think it’s important to remember that the cost-benefit analysis of these industries will vary across the different roles that we’re playing. It may be disheartening for colleagues to not share the same passion or experience. But in reality, their behavior is expected. Their short-term goals seem practical given the fact that their success in that industry is limited according to their youth, which is very fleeting. So idk.
I don’t know why liberal feminists have chosen this agenda as an appropriate hill to die on. I share your confusion about that. 😐
Being charitable here- I think relative to traditional adult/erotic industries prior to the internet, cam girls have more flexibility over their time, environment, or customers. But again, I can’t be sure. It’s just what they tend to say. Are there other risks? Sure. But I’m pretty sure that these are the specific things they’re referring to when they speak of greater control or safety. So in terms of those things, it may not be an illusion for some- particularly those who are, in fact, doing it voluntarily.
To your other point, it kind of echoes the moral panic that people have been having around sexuality for ages. Literally every generation has complained about society crumbling. I would need to know what you are associating with a healthy society before I understand exactly what you’re getting at. What socioeconomic trends are you speaking of?
@@LoneWulf278 Examples of negative socioeconomic trends are the demonization and breakdown of traditional values, family and relationships, low birthrates, widening wealth gap via bloated government and systemic market distortions, hyper-sexualization and monetization via big tech/social media (often with parental support), particularly among young girls, single-parent households, particularly among minorities, loss of work ethic and usable skills, fixation on fame, status, and money rather than character and integrity, etc.
The difference between the concerns of prior generations and today is the speed at which society is changing, the loss of traditional forms of communication and evolutionary cues (body language, facial gestures, touch, eye contact, etc.), and the ability to influence the beliefs and behaviors of the masses, create facades, and censor via technology (deep fakes, AI, social media, entertainment industry, complicit media, academia, etc.).
Of course, I can't convey a lifetime of experience, observation, wisdom, and research via chat or the comment section. It's all so overwhelming and complex. But the major generational trends are clear, and the empirical data and history suggest that the outcome could be devastating for society and our future. And these trends never stop abruptly or change course. They continue until completion. Similar to the cycles in nature.
Ironically, this is also a time of great opportunity. But we need to understand what's happening and make the right choices to navigate it safely, which is incredibly difficult. For example, my brother lost over $40,000 from his retirement account over the last few years (and valuable time) because he listened to the experts. And my best friend died because she was denied medical care for the same reason. And there are many more examples.
Anyway, I'm getting a bit off-topic, but it's all connected.
Sex involves the Soul (for want of a better word). All approaches to it should begin with that understanding.
Amen, sister.
I consented to marriage aged 17, my husband was a twenty year old apprentice. I believe girls can consent at 17, but with the support of friends and family. And that's what I feel is missing from this ladies story. Where were her friends and family?
@@grannyannie2948 I also think that consenting to a positive, healthy role as wife (with your parents' blessing) is wildly different from consenting to a soul-destroying activity like prostitution.
@@AS-qy1zz Exactly. I am fascinated by Early Modern English History. And I find it fascinating that marriage existed between the parental and child veto. Both parents and children of marriageable age (16 in my country at that time) could propose a match. But either side could refuse.
this is so on point true. and couraged.
all the best for you, mia döring. keep on fighting 🌈
It's illuminating and refreshing to hear your clarity and consistency here. Your logic needs to be more widely used and promoted.
For my part, when I saw the object lesson on consent that used the analogy of offering a cup of tea, I thought that was one of the stupidest things ever. To compare sex to tea is a grotesque trivialization of sexuality. It's the same staggering irony you've called out here: completely ignoring the reality of the human body - especially the female body - and how it relates and responds to something so deep and primal.
Naomi Wolf's book Vagina has a really interesting examination of the neuroscience of the effect of sex on women. The argument is that due to the high density and connectivity of neurons from the vagina to the brain, the quality of sex can drastically affect emotional health.
Such a courageous women ❤really appreciated you sharing
wow thank you for this eye-opening piece!
"when you get paid for something you're not able to say no" is a wild statement
are "maiden, mother, and matriarch" each defined on the substack as well? don't recall an episode which precisely explained them
Actually insane how the Nordic Model isnt common sense
Becsuse it isn't.
It might make sense from a short term female perspective. But not from a long term human point of view.
If you choose to crimininalise male sexuality - it will not end well for anyone!
@@jonahtwhale1779 The Nordic model doesn't criminalise male sexuality. Pimping and exploitation aren't an inherent part of that sexuality. We had millions of years of evolution before money was invented.
The Nordic model prosecutes the customers of sex workers. Overwhelmingly these are men.
@@jonahtwhale1779 incel
@@jonahtwhale1779 female perspective IS human perspective. females are fully human. if buying performative one sided so called service is 'male sexuality' what do all the men who do not have to pay do when they have sex? do they have female sexuality? prostitution and patriarchy are neither natural nor healthy. its just rot thats stuck to our boots and doesnt know when to get lost.
Thank you, Mia and Louise. ❤
Not sure what to think of the Nordic model, aside from it's name being a bit misplaced. The model is only in use in Sweden, Norway and little Iceland. In Denmark and Finland it's fully legal to buy and sell sex, except pimping is illegal. In Finland there is a law push towards increasing the legality of prostitution so it's not even going in the same direction as Swedish/Norwegian law. Additionally the Nordic model has increased the number of so called Thai massage places and a report from about five years ago noted that up to 1/3rd of them were selling sexual services. I'm wondering if it would be better to have prostitution illegal, but sanctioned in a way where the woman engaged in prostitution would be re-educated and re-located to another area in the country that would help her cut ties with whatever caused her to become a prostitute. Having followed the Nordic discussion around this, I mostly see a lot of Girl Boss type prostitutes talking for why the activity should remain (or become) fully legal.
She's so beautiful
This was a very interesting interview. What made we think was the thought of the daughters of the 'liberal' women'. They would be horrified if their daughters were doing sex work, however, for virtue points, they are happy for our daughters to be sex workers.
👏
Ladies, do you get prior enthusiastic, verbal consent for every activity you engage in with your sexual partner? Or do you interpret his body language?
There is a legal term for men who infer consent from his partners body language - that term is rapist.
If women do not seek and obtain verbal consent, are they gRapists too?
Why aren't women held to the same legal standards men are?
That is not the definition of rape.
Convenient that isn't it!
The evil Patriarchy conveniently defines rape so only women can accuse someone of it! Why would the Patriarchy give women the legal advantage over men? Makes zero sense does it - unless we live in a society which routinely advantages women over men!
Sex without consent is the vommon definition of rape and women have changed the laws to require enthusiastic and on going consent - but only from the woman. There d o es not seem to be any requirement for the woman to obtain consent from the man at all - just like with pregnancy, abortion and other reproductive rights!
Men really do need to wake up to this double s standard!
I'm not aware of a legal definition that requires men to obtain affirmative verbal consent to every action in a romantic situation. Of course to do so would be nonsensical for both men and women.
according to UK law, there's no such thing as female on male rape 🤡
This lady has had a terrible life but I can't help but notice she doesn't seem to acknowledge any agency.
I also disagree that women can give consent at 17, I consented to marriage at that age.
Perhaps it depends on the environment that the girls is growing up in. For example, some research shows that fatherlessness increases the chances for a girl to be abused or taken advantage of very easily.
Glad you escaped mate
Never had sex for three years and he gave you money to show up? Not really sure how that was abuse. She's old enough to get married after all..take some responsibility and use common sense and understand you were part of the problem
She, as a teenage girl with limited knowledge of sexual power dynamics, was clearly preyed upon by a much older creep with a fetish, and this is how you see it? He treated her as an object for his own pleasure, and you see her as somehow culpable? You have a twisted understanding of this kind of grooming situation.
Yes it was peculiar from the start.
She was unconscious drunk in a public park at the age of sixteen, and was assaulted whilst blacked out??
What??
She has acquired some psychological theories, but rather uses them to deflect from her own culpability.
The real work of understanding trauma does not come from a text book, no matter how authoritative, it comes from the looking in the mirror, with unshakeable clarity.
This is difficult.
So easier alternatives are chosen.
@@bh_486 classic victim blaming. how being does unconscious mean one 'deserves to be raped' or is responsible for being raped? culpability for what exactly? the real work of understanding trauma lies in realizing the world we live in is a rape culture patriarchy, filled with people ready to jump to defend rape and rapists and shift the blame on the victim. being unconscious - for whatever reason - doesnt imply consent. substance abuse at that age is in itself often result of trauma, - living in the world so intensely misogynistic that it literary blames the female rape victim for her own rape is in itself a reason for why so many women and girls use alcohol and drugs to cope with reality. rape culture apologetics with no shred of most BASIC human empathy.
@@bh_486 You could try to have compassion for this woman who was raped as a teenager.
@@Paul.Morgan
Yes indeed, If I was her, I would want to know, how on earth I allowed myself to drink into oblivion, as a girl.
She wasn't chased down and violently attacked.
The trauma should surely be 'how did I allow this to happen?'
The trauma is not - I was walking home and randomly attacked.
And the story continues in the same vein - it is as if she has lost self ownership.
That is scary.
Because it wasn't the assault that did that.
It was that loss that allowed the assault.