I want to address something that has been bothering me lately, and that is the repeat comment in some form or another, about .357 Sig ammo price and availability. Paraphrasing 100 comments into one here - ".357 Sig is not available anywhere, and it's two to three times the cost of 9mm so it's useless". My question to these people is - what are you even talking about?! I know that a lot of physical stores do rack up the price because all they offer is generally Federal American Eagle .357 Sig, which is very pricey ammo. But to say that the cartridge is hard to find and to say it's like $60 a box in general, is very factually wrong. Going on ammoseek, there are 5+ pages of .357 Sig for purchase just like any other popular cartridge, and about a dozen of these retailers offer 50 round boxes of .357 Sig for $22 to $25. Also, defensive ammo is often about the same price if not less than 9mm+P defensive ammo. The fact is, .357 Sig is not all that hard to find and not all that expensive. It's not a lot different (at least online) than buying a 50 round box of .357 Magnum for cost and availability, but for whatever reason a lot of people are either seriously misinformed or have an agenda to make it seem as .357 Sig ammo is about as rare and expensive as .455 Webley (5 retailers online averaging about $65-$70).
@@kennethferguson4283 I’m aware of that, but finding new manufactured 40 S&W pistols in my part of the country is a bit difficult. Just checked Sigs website, and absent a conversion kit, they no longer produce anything in 40 S&W. Converting a Glock doesn’t make sense as you can order a factory pistol (G31, 32, or 33) already chambered in it. And that makes the conversion kits only really useful for H&K (not super common where I live, though you can get one if you know where to look) or S&W, which I personally don’t shoot as well as a sig or FN.
@kennethferguson4283 If my memory serves (and that's a dubious notion), SIG Sauer used to offer multiple pistol platforms in 357 SIG, their P226, P229, and P239 all come to mind. But not anymore. S&W offered an M&P 357 SIG in what now is considered their M1.0 line, but nothing in their M2.0 line. As far as I'm aware, only Glock offers current 357 SIG platforms, but I could be wrong. Too bad, as 357 SIG is an excellent cartridge. Good things! 👍
Sorry I'm late to the party, but wanted to share my heartache. I recently discovered the Beretta PX4 earned its name because it was supposed to be available in 4 calibers. Can you guess which one of the 4 has still never been produced? Only the best one, 357 sig 😭
It's been kind of funny watching the .40 grow on you. I've mentioned before that my duty gun while with the state was a Glock 23, and I didn't plan to ever carry one again when I retired from the field four years ago. But I soon found myself buying one with the nice sights the agency would never let me put on their gun, and it's been my winter carry over the last several years. It became fashionable to trash the caliber, but I've talked to cops whose departments have gone back to it.
@@wizkaqueefa9003 Trijicon. I put a Holosun red dot on my P365XL a couple of years ago, and my eyes are to the point where I'm finally ready to put a red dot on my G23.
@@bjs301Thank you for the response. Not a fan of striker fired SIGs/P365 series but I plan on buying an FN Reflex/HK CC9 to replace my FN 503 as a pocket carry.
Nice Choices. The CC9 really passed some healthy testing at the level that full size guns do, and it passed as a sub compact, an amazing feat considering most little 9s, I don't think, meet that tier of excellence. I heard the Reflex has a nice trigger on it. I've got my eye on both of those like you do!
Great test and I'm glad you used quality ammo. In the gel test they all performed great. I agree about the 40 S&W it does everything well and it has the lowest cost ammo of the group. Since it's popularity has gone down so has the cost of ammo.... at least for now.
I also want so say thank you for trying to put out good information about all these calibers. Especially 10mm and .40 s&w . Thanks for trying to 40 s&w great again
They are very close. Even when I pushed the hottest of both in the past, the 10mm with some 155 gr Buffalo Bore JHP and some .357 Sig Underwood Xtreme Defender. Both were basically hitting 800 ft lbs energy. Makes some sense though, the .357 Sig case is formed from a 10mm case and then it's at a higher pressure than 10mm.
@@GunSam,Check out " Alaska Ballistics" & Chukes outdoors. Glocks been blowing up w the hot bear loads ( standard Bbls) & using KKM Bbls they're having similar reliability issues. But they're NOT blowing up. I've got several XDM-E 10MM & they are awesome. Hot loads no problem.
That's common! People underestimate the 357sig...its bottle necked and throttled for power and pressure..and operates at a higher chamber pressures than the ordinary calibers🤭 high energy round!
No, they are not close. Calculate factor and see there is significant difference. Energy of pistol rounds is not important. Momentum better describes pistol rounds.
@@scottdavis6734 , Had a friend last summer empty his 500 into a SMALL grizzly during a 30 ft charge. Hot bear loads & all. Only thing that saved his butt was the last shot was point blank & hit the spinal cord right behind the skull. He still got knocked for a loop by the bears momentum but not mauled. Now he's carrying the 10 too. Same reasons, FIREPOWER & natural point of aim when there's no time to screw around trying to aim. I warned him! Been down that big bore road & w/o that 1 lucky brain shot the revolvers are never enough. He's young, but getting trampled taught him a LOT! 😁
A great video that answers real-world questions. I have the greatest respect for the .357sig. It shoots flat and the bottleneck design of the cartridge seems to make it flawless feeding no matter what. I have several .40's but simply prefer the .357sig in everything except the price of the ammo. Never had a .45 so your video taught me something, thanks.
You're right about it feeding flawlessly, however some handguns have different head space, and when people reloaded the Sig 357 they would find sometimes it was a little bit too long, so just for that specific handgun, they needed to make it just a bit shorter! Also, the guys who make the reoading books commented that working with the 357 Sig produced some of the most consistent rounds they ever dealt with, and it was a joy to work with! That compliment spoke volumes to me about their reverence for the cartridge. Especially dealing with it professionally, it makes me think Sig 357 is great for consistency and accuracy! Plus, watch those gel tests-that Sig357 hits fast and hard!
I love these kinds of comparisons. With modern ballistics, all were vere close and whatever you have will be a good choice. I was amazed by the 10mm, and feel you have choices for loads to suit your needs. Maybe not as many choices as 40s&w but definitely more powerful when you go into the "wild" for the day
@@mikewithers299 The chambers are tapered and cut similar to a semi auto chamber. This means that 10mm will load and fire safely without a moon clip, but extraction wouldn't work with the ejector rod as the rod and ejector is cut to push on the moon clip out, you would just have to pop them out with a pencil from the front or just use the moon clip. Now with .40 S&W, because the case is shorter than 10mm you would absolutely have to use the moon clips to headspace correctly, no moon clips and they would fall too deep in the chambers for the firing pin to reach the primers.
You’re right, all of these calibers are good. Out of all of them only the 357 sig is a bottle necked round. Reliability should be great. My Summer EDC is a Glock 33. After 1000’s of rounds I’ve never had a hiccup! That’s out of the compact. My Winter EDC is a Sig 229c, little bigger, couple more rounds, works great every time.
had always believed that the bottle neck would be super reliable, and it makes sense it would be. Until I realized that in the magazine they have a tendency to move one way or the other and then dive down and jam itself in the magazine. There's not really a practical solution for that as the magazine interior has to be as big as the biggest part of the cartridge. It's rare for me to get a .357 Sig malfunction but I have had a couple of them.
Enjoyed your video as always. Wish you had commented on the recoil differences. I think all of these are great rounds. I only own the 40S&W and 357 Sig. With the same gun with just a barrel swap. The 357 SIG is just not as available so seldom shoot it. I used to shoot my 40 with very light loaded for USPSA production. Lighter recoil than a 9mm. And I've seen videos where they were loading the 40 to levels of MOST factory 10mm. Obviously the 10mm is a more powerful round if you go with the stoughter loadings. Unless I'm going into big bear country I'll stick with the 40.
I've used .40 180 grain in the same gun for 30 years now. No testing in gel or chrono like you. I did buy a box of 165 grain just to see how it does. I'll stick with the 180. If it was a plastic gun I'd run the 165gr. Thanks for the video. Hope you're feeling better.
Thanks. I have found that 180 gr can do quite well, but it's much like a 230 gr .45 or 147 gr 9mm where it needs to be designed well to expand. The 165 gr overall is more likely to expand and still penetrate even with cheap ammo.
That M&P is great half in ch longer barrel than nearly all other popular duty style, it makes a noticeable and relevant effect on velocity .Great show with great rounds.
@@kennethferguson4283 I have a gen 4 31, lots of videos on it, not much stock on mine now except slide and frame , it has held up well after unknown massive amount of rounds, hot rounds too, every boutique out there..lol
I’ve watched a ton of these comparison vids. All good info. First one to mention the reliability in actual applications. Tipped the balance towards 357. Excellent video. 👍
Very, very good comparison. All are respectable. And all are considerably "more" "power"(energy) than 9mm. The 45 is 8-10% more energy than a good 124(+p) 9mm. This 40 is 15+%. This 357 Sig is 40+%. This 10mm is 50+%. But these all had great expansion and consistent penetration. They would all certainly be effective.
That’s often dependent on ammo type. I believe in the Federal Punch, the 9mm +p packs slightly more energy then the .45 +p, as well as the 9mm penetrating better and expanding within like .01” of the .45… That being said I’m personally a fan of .40 S&W and run the Federal Punch through that
@@sleeper.simulant7327 Agreed. I too have run 40s since the late 90s. Running the 165 Gold Dot now. But have tested quite a few good options. Stay safe.
I’d say the .45 acquitted itself pretty well considering it’s running 12,000 to 17,000 less psi than the others. Also have to note that 1033 fps is not +P velocity with 200 grain bullets. In a 5.3” barrel. Ammo companies really need to use correct powders.
@@FoulPet It’s really all about the powder. I don’t load 200’s, but I’ve seen 200 grain Gold Dots at around 1100 fps with Unique and Power Pistol that were still standard pressure. I run 230 grain Sierras at 960 fps with a standard pressure charge of Power Pistol.
@876mpr unfortunately I'm not reloading ATM. I've got some supplies, I just haven't got a place to set up. I can't imagine loading hotter than underwood. They seem to set the standards for hot "factory" loads.
@@FoulPet Strange how these companies load. Some, like this Underwood .45 ACP is easy to better. Then you have BB’s 158 and 180 grain.357 loads that I can’t get within 100 fps of.
@@FoulPetI run 185 at 1150-1225,, 200 1100-1170 and 230’s between 925- 1000 with my handloads. It’s got an aftermarket 20 LB recoil spring tho. 45 is awesome if you handload and set your gun up for steady diet of +p.. I’ve had my gun setup for 45 super, it was fun but I don’t think I need that much power. That was a 22-26 lb spring. With the 20 LB spring I can shoot my hotter loads and it still functions with the weakest ammo aswell. I use it for hog protection here in the East Texas boonies.a good combo for a non reloader is a 20lb spring in a 5 inch 1911 and underwood, buffalo bore, federal HST all +P it’s pretty great if you favor a 45
GS. Good video. Nice ammo comparison. Great 75Y shooting. I chrono'd some 38 Spl, .357's and .44 Mags today, I forgot how hard the .44 Mag recoil was and that was with an 8.5" barrel. Fun shooting but doesn't make for an exciting YT Video. Take care.
Forgot to say thanks for finding /trying those .380 acp htp s from Remington didn't know they were rolling them great feeding for most autos be blessed
They are great overall. With ammo it's important that it feeds reliably, and then secondary is the performance terminally. The HTP feed as well as others, but unlike others the HTP consistently penetrates well and does not randomly expand, and why that's good is some .380 ACP will hit or miss, jam up or expand one time with 6" of penetration, or penetrate through 32" of gel. The HTP is just right with the bullet weight reducing the momentum, the length of the bullet just right to not tumble and the penetration just right. One had to really take a good overview of .380 ACP and not hyperfocus on pretty petals. And the overview is really good, considering the cost is good too.
I think a good take away is that the federal rounds are very consistent and you can’t really go wrong regardless of your caliber choice. I pretty much carry the HST in all of my handguns from 9 to 45 because I don’t really have to worry about if it’s going to perform.
Federal does have some great ammo, it's my favorite company. Punch, HST, Hydrashok Deep and even some of the older Hydrashok and Hi-Shok are still really good in some calibers. I like Speer too. After them i'd say I like Winchester. Their quality control could use some work but I like how they just go with stuff like Ranger, Ranger Bonded, Ranger T, USA Ready, Silvertip and the list goes on and on. Remington is okay, their basic revolver ammo is the best if you have some older revolver and you need .38 Short Colt or something. Hornady is okay, maybe a bit better than Remington but they don't have a huge selection beyond XTP and FTX style bullets.
357 is a beast for pistol. And doesnt recoil like 10mm. But all are pistol rounds. Think its a great compromise and you can get 68gr from underwood that doesn’t recoil at all
I have 2 10mm pistols and love them both as they are both fun to shoot, reliable, & accurate. My Springfield Ronin Elite 1911 10mm pistol with its fiber optic sights and 1911 trigger is the king of accuracy, but my modified Glock 20 with the 25 cent trigger jog, -3.0 connector, 5" threaded KKM barrel has less recoil, lighter, & is more fun to shoot. Wouldn't sell either one!
Another great video . Keep up the good work. Would like to see in the future a gel test where you have 4 layers of clothing, 3 inch gel 1/4 inch board, gel block and another 1/4 board between block 1 and 2 with another 4 layers of clothing. I believe this ser up would give you a better indication of over penetration. Just a suggestion.
The real reason I don't put more MDF in place, is that it's less than 10% of the time that a bullet even makes it to that depth, and once they get to that depth, they have lost so much steam that nothing would make it through that board. So then literally every caliber that is close would all be exactly 19" or penetration. That makes the comparisons I often do a lot more difficult.
Great comparison of the "bigger" 4 pistol cartidges. High quality as always. Sadly you didn't brought in the 9mm too, just to get an impression for most of folks using it and deciding if an upgrade is worth it. If you kept your ballistic gel blocks, could you do an "add on" with the 9mm? That would be really awesome! 👍
Thank you for an excellent video. Informative. Still, 80%(+/-) of normal people will EDC a 9mm, if they carry at all. I see the 40 as the only relevant cartridge here. That's right, I SAID IT.😂
I love all the gel testing. I hope there is someone that likes watching you shoot at plates but I couldn't really care any less how well you shoot a particular pistol off hand one day. Means nothing to me. I mention it because I've watched like 100 of your videos and never watched a single one to the end and I think that hurts you in the youtube algorithm. Thanks for the great videos.
I am reviewing something, overall. If I was a shill I would follow what you are saying. The fact that I do my own thing is what people seem to like, except you for whatever reason. To each his own.
@@GunSam I do like what you are doing a lot, which is why I'm subscribed and keep coming back to watch and like your videos. I think your gel testing methodology is the best there is. Just offering constructive criticism. If people click out of your videos half way like I do it negatively affects the algorithm so something to look into. If you don't care about that then so be it.
Enjoy your videos! Just throwing this out, apologies if you've already covered this: is there any chance that the 10mm round needs a heavier recoil spring to feed reliably?
I have tried a 22 lb NDZ spring and it made no difference. In fact the stock spring is more reliable with most 10mm ammo, it's just when using Buffalo Bore and Underwood that the slide isn't so harsh when I run the 22 lb. But both malfunction
10mm is great as a fairly heavy peice of lead that can move fast and still hold together without much fragmentation in many bullet designs. My 2 cents.
One thing I don't think can be argued is that your ammo selection was good in all cases. I don't think an ambulance transporting someone who had been center punched with one of those would bother running the lights and siren.
I had like 3 comments that were saying my ammo choices were crap, different people trolling on me. I deleted them because out of the gate they were combative towards me. There might be 'better' choices but it's what I had and I am broke lol
@@GunSam Ha! Well good luck finding more Gold Dots. I'm not sure what's up with Speer, but I'm not finding them anywhere. I haven't looked for that particular style of Winchester. I think your real problem is going to be replacing that ammo! It's feeling sort of 2020ish! :( I'm not sure what could be said against that ammo. Maybe you ran into some caliber religious folks.
@@GunSam OK. Good to know. I'm not sure when my last search was. I was looking for the 125gr 38 Spl+P load. I couldn't find Underwood Item 128 either. I think from what I've recently seen, I would probably prefer the Hornady Critical Defense. Of course there is the good old fashioned lead and I found some. So at least I got the cherries. I should also see about getting some cheap target fodder. Your videos are getting expensive to watch!
first 3 are similar. I've seen 45acp+p almost get 600 fpe. I'm thinking about getting s&w m&p 9mm and sig p229? some have 2 barrels 40& 357 sig use same magazine. thanks
I've had all of these, still do except no 357 SIG but overall the .40 S&W is a very sweet package all things considered. The 10mm is cool but the .40 lends itself to better carry. The 357 SIG is cool too but these days it's stupid expensive to shoot. All of them are better than 9mm. Have you considered buying some Underwood .40 S&W and testing it through the M&P? They offer 135gr up to 200gr.
Great testing as always , Sam why don't you take that Glock and the conversion barrel to a local gunsmith and have him polish the feed ramp and open the feed ramp up " if that's what he diagnoses " , most gunsmiths have fitted many a Glock conversion barrels by now. It just doesn't make sense to have 7- $800. in a gun and not want to shoot it . I bet the job wouldn't cost much more than $100.00 . Thanks for all the work and information .
They are everywhere I always shop online at. I wasn't aware they went anywhere, I see them the same as I always have. You must mean in a physical store you don't find them?
The best "calibur" is both 357sig & 40cal in any easy barrel swap chassis similar to a Glock 23... Why choose 1 if you can have both with a 10 second barrel swap? But that 357sig deserves an extended 5.5" or 6" barrel for extra 75 to 100lbs of force. An extended barrel 357sig HOT round will match a 10mm, or if packed light for speed has the trajectory of a 9mm on steroids.. plus the sig bottleneck rounds don't fail to load... And it's well known to have the flattest trajectory over distance... 10mm is just too big to carry.... Plus the 40/357sig Glocks can also shoot 9mm for target practice. That whole setup avoids ammo shortages and the high cost of target shooting a 40 and sig.
Sam, I don’t think that the reliability aspect of your test is related to the 10mm cartridge. My own experience with a Gen 3 Glock 20 has een extremely reliable. I can’t recall any malfunctions that weren’t ammunition related in 966 documented rounds fired. Your individual sample is likely the cause and not entirely unexpected with a conversion barrel installed. That is unfortunate as the Glock 41 is a very fine handgun. Thanks for sharing the results of your testing. It was interesting as always.
I have talked with many, and seen many many examples of 10mm malfunctions. While some people can run 10mm reliably, if there was no truth to my statements with my Glock conversion out of the way, the 10mm would still be the FBI caliber and .40 S&W would never had been invented. Not much more I can add to that.
@@GunSam I’m sure the same could be said for any other autopistol caliber. Inherent reliability, or a lack thereof, being attributed to a caliber is incorrect, in my own opinion. In fact, when comparing length to width ratios, the 9mm and 10mm are basically identical. There’s nothing unusual about the geometry of the 10mm. Reliability or a lack of it, is most likely due to individual gun setup, ammo specifications or magazines that are not compatible with one another. Again, thank you for your content. I watch regularly and enjoy doing so. I hope I’m not coming across as critical or challenging. It’s just not in line with my own experience and frankly I haven’t heard of it before now. Keep up the great work 👍👍
Not sure what you are talking about. I have watched many TH-camrs. And MANY, many....of these videos I have seen them get malfunction after malfunction with 10mm but not other calibers. I would advise against telling someone else what THEY have or have not seen. Because even if no one else cares, it seals the deal that to ME you have no idea what you are talking about. Just means i'm not going to have a debate with someone making up false information, because it's pointless. You are going to "win" in your own mind no matter what. Type whatever trolling nonsense comes next, because I am out.
@@GunSam Unlike the last person who left a comment, I’m not discrediting your personal experience. I’m only bringing my own experience (close to 30 years of shooting, handloading and extensive research on the subject of ballistics; internal, external and terminal as well as all manner of firearms related subjects) to the conversation. And while I’m far from being some wet behind the ears bigmouth neither am I a subject matter expert, I know where I stand. There is a saying that I think applies to both sides of this debate, perception is reality. Until our own perceptions are changed our realities will not. Thank you for the discussion as I do respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time.
The 10MM will save your friend from the Boar Grizz that attacked him while he went 75 yards from camp to get water. You thought ahead and packed your 10 MM gun instead of your 40 cal. Years later your friend told his grandkids how you saved him from the Grizz, little did he know it was your hunch to leave the 40 cal. home. The years of practice & testing ammo was also a huge help that fateful day. What we shoot echo's throughout eternity, Good Shooting Gun Sam!
There was a story awhile back, and I am not making this up - that two guys were found killed by a grizzly, and with all the evidence, it appears that guy one with the 10mm pistol, left it to walk ironically, 75 yards up to gather some wood or something, grizzly pops up and kills him. Guy two was by the pistol, found dead. The evidence by where to gun was suggested that guy two grabbed the pistol, it didn't fire as it wasn't chambered, and he could never figure out how to work the gun so he was killed too. Moral of the story, is if someone in your party knows nothing about guns, a revolver would be better.
@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS you ever been charged by a bear? Do you know how fast bears can cover distance??? And your really goin to put a so called "multitude of shots" over the effectiveness of a cartridge???😂😂😂 i think you need to do the research buddy...
@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS Trying to be King Solomon on this: 10 MM SIG 220 LEGION SAO RMR 9 ROUNDS 220 GR. Underwood Ammo Hard Cast “Black Cherry” for 75 yard to 1 yard Grizzly Dropped in tracks. And SW 360 PD Snubbie 5 ROUNDS 180 GR. Underwood Ammo Hard Cast “Black Cherry” for when you jam the 4lb SIG in Grizzly's maw while zero gap contact dumping the Black Cherry into the Surprised Dead Bear. Determination] 2 guns (1 semi 1 revolver) 14 rounds 5lbs total Protection Package. Best of both worlds = Dead grizz
He was friendly. I still feel bad for removing one's head. Several years ago I saw one that wouldn't shut up, I pulled a .38 from my pocket and shot from the hip in it's direction just goofing off, and from like 20 yards away I somehow shot it's head off. This was not skill in any way shape or form. It still boggles my mind how that could have happened.
@@GunSam OMG the chances! I know it was not intended to be that funny but it gave me a good chuckle for a minute. it's good information to know that they can fit 5 acorns in their mouth and be ok but one 38 special is too much to handle.
Go ahead and try it, limp wrist a G-20. I bet it will be just fine. I have over 1k rounds in mine both factory and HL. Only ftf was my fault and a slightly unseated primer, that went off after the gun seated it. Btw if a bear is chasing you don't run, shoot well take your time you have the rest of your life to kill the bear. 🐻
I have seen other people shoot them and they malfunction. Now for sure it would be more reliable than my 41 conversion, but I guarantee my GF would jam it up. I had a smaller model 36 Glock and it never, ever jammed. I tried limp wristing and it would not jam, I was convinced it could not jam. I had her shoot it, she's tiny like 4'9" and size 5 shoes, and it jammed every single shot. I was dismayed, like how? Then I limp wristed, and it fired a whole mag, she tries it, out of 6 rounds every one jammed. I concluded that even if you limp wrist, if you are big and got heavy fat arms like me, it will still slingshot the slide forward and run, but if that pistol is traveling backwards from being that tiny or weak, it's gonna jam no matter what.
Those would all go right through your typical crackhead. Not interested. Thoughts; Quadrant the jello. Don’t cut it, impact in four definite sections of the goo. Wrap the jello in Crepe paper. Semi tight to get find the tear envelope. Count the number of rips in each quadrant on each level/length to score the expansion during impact. Blue masking tape should real good too. Build a gravity returned sled, 10-lbs weight to return, measuring scale on the side for travel. High speed, GoPro should work, 200fps, and measure the distance the sled travels with each caliber. Quantify the calculated, Garmin Xero should help, impact. CCW; my first mag is high expansion. Most likely be dealing with some adrenaline filled convict. I want all energy exhausted within 10 inches. Remaining mags are penetrating barriers most certainly and that’s where I want my reach extended.
@@GunSam sorry to hear that. We don't want to see you get hurt. I was just trying to picture a youtuber trying anything for views. I did not make that comment. God bless.
@@corporalpunish6089 All the Old Fudds reloading it drove the demand off a cliff where manufacturers have zero incentive to make more of it since they know all the Old Fudds won’t buy it and they’ll just reload it instead.
I have tried all of these calibers at what I call my realistic self defense distance= 80 ft. The 40 has shown me the best score every time for 12 years now. I don't shoot the woke and trendy 9mm. It's a cap gun. No Glock - Tard here.
Not how it is. I've tried explaining that left is center, center is right and a 4 ft area compresses to looking 12" squared on camera. So your directions would be significantly wrong. Just saying
Fun fact: take a Glock 32 .357 Sig put 9 mm. Luger in it and it will fire suffering no malfunctions or without any significant loss in accuracy. The 9mm. cases bulge but it extracts them just fine.
The problem, there though, is performance would have to suffer. If that 9mm did about 1,150 FPS in a 4" 9mm pistol, I would bet money that in a .357 Sig pistol of equal barrel length, you would see less than 1,000 FPS. When the pressure isn't contained and doesn't instantly go forward, it goes outward, and even though there's only one place for power to exit, the bullet is gone before that full pressure is reached making the velocity suffer.
@@GunSam come to think 🤔 of it you are right there, though I never measured the velocity of the 9 from the Glock 32 with a chronograph. Maybe it will be an idea for a video?
My colt 1911 is very accurate. It has never failed to cycle. Its the pistol. I can head shoot a man target at 50 yds. Ill loan you my pistol as long as you shoot 230 grn fmj Winchester. To prove it. Its the quality of the firearm.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o Actually, I've owned more than 6. I've owned 2 colts, 2 sigs, and 2 rugers that I can remember. I also owned a para double stack. Both Colts didn't like anything but ball. Both Sigs had ejection issues. 1 ruger had mag issues. The other ruger, I don't recall any issues. I don't recall any issues on the para either, but i did not shoot them often. I've owned/traded a lot of pistols and can't recall wanting to keep any 1911 other than a Colt, and that was just for collecting, and I've really tried to like them. I sold them all because I won't keep a gun I won't carry. I've considered buying an S&W 1911, but I think I'll just give up on them. I'm pretty well covered with pistols now and not looking for another 45. I may get another 10mm, but not in 1911. I've found the P220 to be a better alternative to the 1911 "for me." I wasn't fond of Glocks 45 offerings either, but I had no mechanical issues with them. ATM, my most carried pistols are a P365XL 9mm and a P229 Legion 357 sig. If I'm in the woods, I'll take the G20 in 10mm. I always hear about 1911 reliability. I've just not personally experienced it.
Well I can tell you my Colts 1911 like Winchester 230 ball ammo. I agree with that 100 percent. And I can tell you from army experience in Afghanistan. It will do the job.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o I've no doubt 45 will do the job. There's a video of a one hit stop. Guy dropped like a sack of potatoes. I think that if we were limited to only one caliber, I'd pick 40. It's a good balance of power,penetration, and capacity. Also, it's related to the 10mm and 357sig.
No way. The 9mm is the the wonder cartridge that has been pushed to nauseum. It's the do all, bear, elk, and elephant cartridge. It will make you be like John Wick! It will wash your clothes! It can do anything. That's why I carry a Glock 32c in 357Sig, most of the time. I also occasionally carry 40Cal and 45. I plan on getting a 10mm.
I want to address something that has been bothering me lately, and that is the repeat comment in some form or another, about .357 Sig ammo price and availability. Paraphrasing 100 comments into one here - ".357 Sig is not available anywhere, and it's two to three times the cost of 9mm so it's useless". My question to these people is - what are you even talking about?!
I know that a lot of physical stores do rack up the price because all they offer is generally Federal American Eagle .357 Sig, which is very pricey ammo. But to say that the cartridge is hard to find and to say it's like $60 a box in general, is very factually wrong. Going on ammoseek, there are 5+ pages of .357 Sig for purchase just like any other popular cartridge, and about a dozen of these retailers offer 50 round boxes of .357 Sig for $22 to $25. Also, defensive ammo is often about the same price if not less than 9mm+P defensive ammo.
The fact is, .357 Sig is not all that hard to find and not all that expensive. It's not a lot different (at least online) than buying a 50 round box of .357 Magnum for cost and availability, but for whatever reason a lot of people are either seriously misinformed or have an agenda to make it seem as .357 Sig ammo is about as rare and expensive as .455 Webley (5 retailers online averaging about $65-$70).
Love me some 357Sig & 40s&w ...
Huge fan of the 357 Sig and 10 Auto. It’s a shame the former is so difficult to find to find pistols chambered for it, it’s a great round.
@@kennethferguson4283 I’m aware of that, but finding new manufactured 40 S&W pistols in my part of the country is a bit difficult. Just checked Sigs website, and absent a conversion kit, they no longer produce anything in 40 S&W. Converting a Glock doesn’t make sense as you can order a factory pistol (G31, 32, or 33) already chambered in it. And that makes the conversion kits only really useful for H&K (not super common where I live, though you can get one if you know where to look) or S&W, which I personally don’t shoot as well as a sig or FN.
Sig sux for abandoning the caliber
@kennethferguson4283
If my memory serves (and that's a dubious notion), SIG Sauer used to offer multiple pistol platforms in 357 SIG, their P226, P229, and P239 all come to mind. But not anymore.
S&W offered an M&P 357 SIG in what now is considered their M1.0 line, but nothing in their M2.0 line.
As far as I'm aware, only Glock offers current 357 SIG platforms, but I could be wrong.
Too bad, as 357 SIG is an excellent cartridge.
Good things! 👍
Sorry I'm late to the party, but wanted to share my heartache. I recently discovered the Beretta PX4 earned its name because it was supposed to be available in 4 calibers. Can you guess which one of the 4 has still never been produced? Only the best one, 357 sig 😭
I like how Sam makes it fun while bringing information and a casual, humble feel to these comparisons. Kudos, brother!
The lack of performance of the 45 ACP +P really surprised me. Well executed test as usual 👍
45 don’t shrink
It's been kind of funny watching the .40 grow on you. I've mentioned before that my duty gun while with the state was a Glock 23, and I didn't plan to ever carry one again when I retired from the field four years ago. But I soon found myself buying one with the nice sights the agency would never let me put on their gun, and it's been my winter carry over the last several years. It became fashionable to trash the caliber, but I've talked to cops whose departments have gone back to it.
Yep he should have used some plus P 40 loads.
What kind of aftermarket sights did you opt for on your Glock 23?
@@wizkaqueefa9003 Trijicon. I put a Holosun red dot on my P365XL a couple of years ago, and my eyes are to the point where I'm finally ready to put a red dot on my G23.
@@bjs301Thank you for the response. Not a fan of striker fired SIGs/P365 series but I plan on buying an FN Reflex/HK CC9 to replace my FN 503 as a pocket carry.
Nice Choices. The CC9 really passed some healthy testing at the level that full size guns do, and it passed as a sub compact, an amazing feat considering most little 9s, I don't think, meet that tier of excellence. I heard the Reflex has a nice trigger on it. I've got my eye on both of those like you do!
Great test and I'm glad you used quality ammo. In the gel test they all performed great. I agree about the 40 S&W it does everything well and it has the lowest cost ammo of the group. Since it's popularity has gone down so has the cost of ammo.... at least for now.
Nice battle of the 4 best calibers! It’s 10mm or 357 sig for me all day for human issues, great comparison
I also want so say thank you for trying to put out good information about all these calibers. Especially 10mm and .40 s&w . Thanks for trying to 40 s&w great again
Interesting that the FPE for the 357 Sig and 10mm were so close to each other
They are very close. Even when I pushed the hottest of both in the past, the 10mm with some 155 gr Buffalo Bore JHP and some .357 Sig Underwood Xtreme Defender. Both were basically hitting 800 ft lbs energy. Makes some sense though, the .357 Sig case is formed from a 10mm case and then it's at a higher pressure than 10mm.
@@GunSam,Check out " Alaska Ballistics" & Chukes outdoors. Glocks been blowing up w the hot bear loads ( standard Bbls) & using KKM Bbls they're having similar reliability issues. But they're NOT blowing up. I've got several XDM-E 10MM & they are awesome. Hot loads no problem.
That's common! People underestimate the 357sig...its bottle necked and throttled for power and pressure..and operates at a higher chamber pressures than the ordinary calibers🤭 high energy round!
No, they are not close. Calculate factor and see there is significant difference. Energy of pistol rounds is not important. Momentum better describes pistol rounds.
@@kennethferguson4283nothing better than good ole ball ammo for a 45 auto
All calibers did well. You are well armed with any of them.
Fantastic video Sam
+1 on the 40 S&W
Thanks
Very cool! Thanks! I WAS going to get the Sig. Sticking with my 10mm instead. Alaska bushman w LOTS of bears around.
Big bears...Big lead.
@@ElainesDomainor a lot anyway. I carry 10mm Auto now instead of 44mag in country... never thought I would say that out loud. 16>6 because math.
@@scottdavis6734 , Had a friend last summer empty his 500 into a SMALL grizzly during a 30 ft charge. Hot bear loads & all. Only thing that saved his butt was the last shot was point blank & hit the spinal cord right behind the skull. He still got knocked for a loop by the bears momentum but not mauled. Now he's carrying the 10 too. Same reasons, FIREPOWER & natural point of aim when there's no time to screw around trying to aim. I warned him! Been down that big bore road & w/o that 1 lucky brain shot the revolvers are never enough. He's young, but getting trampled taught him a LOT! 😁
A great video that answers real-world questions. I have the greatest respect for the .357sig. It shoots flat and the bottleneck design of the cartridge seems to make it flawless feeding no matter what. I have several .40's but simply prefer the .357sig in everything except the price of the ammo. Never had a .45 so your video taught me something, thanks.
You're right about it feeding flawlessly, however some handguns have different head space, and when people reloaded the Sig 357 they would find sometimes it was a little bit too long, so just for that specific handgun, they needed to make it just a bit shorter!
Also, the guys who make the reoading books commented that working with the 357 Sig produced some of the most consistent rounds they ever dealt with, and it was a joy to work with!
That compliment spoke volumes to me about their reverence for the cartridge. Especially dealing with it professionally, it makes me think Sig 357 is great for consistency and accuracy!
Plus, watch those gel tests-that Sig357 hits fast and hard!
I love these kinds of comparisons. With modern ballistics, all were vere close and whatever you have will be a good choice. I was amazed by the 10mm, and feel you have choices for loads to suit your needs. Maybe not as many choices as 40s&w but definitely more powerful when you go into the "wild" for the day
Possibly a 10mm revolver could be one of the most versatile handguns out there now days with it being able to shoot both.
@@GunSam those need moon clips to take 10mm? I've never owned a revolver yet, but I'm seriously considering it
@@mikewithers299 The chambers are tapered and cut similar to a semi auto chamber. This means that 10mm will load and fire safely without a moon clip, but extraction wouldn't work with the ejector rod as the rod and ejector is cut to push on the moon clip out, you would just have to pop them out with a pencil from the front or just use the moon clip. Now with .40 S&W, because the case is shorter than 10mm you would absolutely have to use the moon clips to headspace correctly, no moon clips and they would fall too deep in the chambers for the firing pin to reach the primers.
@@GunSam wow! That's not gonna be the caliber for my first wheelgun. 357 sounds perfect. 😊
You’re right, all of these calibers are good. Out of all of them only the 357 sig is a bottle necked round. Reliability should be great. My Summer EDC is a Glock 33. After 1000’s of rounds I’ve never had a hiccup! That’s out of the compact. My Winter EDC is a Sig 229c, little bigger, couple more rounds, works great every time.
had always believed that the bottle neck would be super reliable, and it makes sense it would be. Until I realized that in the magazine they have a tendency to move one way or the other and then dive down and jam itself in the magazine. There's not really a practical solution for that as the magazine interior has to be as big as the biggest part of the cartridge. It's rare for me to get a .357 Sig malfunction but I have had a couple of them.
Enjoyed your video as always. Wish you had commented on the recoil differences. I think all of these are great rounds. I only own the 40S&W and 357 Sig. With the same gun with just a barrel swap. The 357 SIG is just not as available so seldom shoot it. I used to shoot my 40 with very light loaded for USPSA production. Lighter recoil than a 9mm. And I've seen videos where they were loading the 40 to levels of MOST factory 10mm. Obviously the 10mm is a more powerful round if you go with the stoughter loadings. Unless I'm going into big bear country I'll stick with the 40.
What a fun test. With channels like this who needs Hollywood?
✅️ 💯
★ Enjoyed that comparison. Appreciate your effort in giving us some insight. Thanks!
I've used .40 180 grain in the same gun for 30 years now. No testing in gel or chrono like you. I did buy a box of 165 grain just to see how it does. I'll stick with the 180. If it was a plastic gun I'd run the 165gr.
Thanks for the video. Hope you're feeling better.
Thanks. I have found that 180 gr can do quite well, but it's much like a 230 gr .45 or 147 gr 9mm where it needs to be designed well to expand. The 165 gr overall is more likely to expand and still penetrate even with cheap ammo.
What does the guns frame have to do with bullet weight?
@@FoulPet Heavier guns help with recoil. The rest is the same.
@@ElainesDomain makes sense. I do notice a slight difference in recoil depending on the load but didn't consider changing gun weight.
@@FoulPet It's a trade off. The lighter gun is more comfortable to carry all day. 1st shot is the important one and both are the same for that.
That M&P is great half in ch longer barrel than nearly all other popular duty style, it makes a noticeable and relevant effect on velocity .Great show with great rounds.
@@kennethferguson4283 I have a gen 4 31, lots of videos on it, not much stock on mine now except slide and frame , it has held up well after unknown massive amount of rounds, hot rounds too, every boutique out there..lol
I’ve watched a ton of these comparison vids. All good info. First one to mention the reliability in actual applications. Tipped the balance towards 357. Excellent video. 👍
Wow! Great tests and comparisons. I have the same 40 did not know I could run 357 through it with 357 barrel. Very nice to know that. Thanks
Im glad i found your channel. I love my revolver s and my colt 1911. You bring it to real world.😊
Very nice comparisons Sam! Id bet my life on any of today's tests. Glad you test them so I don't have to. Keep up the great work.
I would agree with almost everything you said, only instead of the S&W 40, I would say even more so for the 10mm. Good video.
Very, very good comparison. All are respectable. And all are considerably "more" "power"(energy) than 9mm. The 45 is 8-10% more energy than a good 124(+p) 9mm. This 40 is 15+%.
This 357 Sig is 40+%.
This 10mm is 50+%.
But these all had great expansion and consistent penetration. They would all certainly be effective.
That’s often dependent on ammo type. I believe in the Federal Punch, the 9mm +p packs slightly more energy then the .45 +p, as well as the 9mm penetrating better and expanding within like .01” of the .45…
That being said I’m personally a fan of .40 S&W and run the Federal Punch through that
@@sleeper.simulant7327 Agreed. I too have run 40s since the late 90s. Running the 165 Gold Dot now. But have tested quite a few good options. Stay safe.
Underwood’s loading of the 124gr 9mm out of a 5” is roughly 500 ft lbs of energy. Depends who’s loading what. Not all +p and +p+ is created equal.
I’d say the .45 acquitted itself pretty well considering it’s running 12,000 to 17,000 less psi than the others. Also have to note that 1033 fps is not +P velocity with 200 grain bullets. In a 5.3” barrel. Ammo companies really need to use correct powders.
Underwood is running 200 grain 45+P at 1000 fps. What speed is considered hot for 45?
@@FoulPet It’s really all about the powder. I don’t load 200’s, but I’ve seen 200 grain Gold Dots at around 1100 fps with Unique and Power Pistol that were still standard pressure.
I run 230 grain Sierras at 960 fps with a standard pressure charge of Power Pistol.
@876mpr unfortunately I'm not reloading ATM. I've got some supplies, I just haven't got a place to set up. I can't imagine loading hotter than underwood. They seem to set the standards for hot "factory" loads.
@@FoulPet Strange how these companies load. Some, like this Underwood .45 ACP is easy to better. Then you have BB’s 158 and 180 grain.357 loads that I can’t get within 100 fps of.
@@FoulPetI run 185 at 1150-1225,, 200 1100-1170 and 230’s between 925- 1000 with my handloads. It’s got an aftermarket 20 LB recoil spring tho. 45 is awesome if you handload and set your gun up for steady diet of +p.. I’ve had my gun setup for 45 super, it was fun but I don’t think I need that much power. That was a 22-26 lb spring. With the 20 LB spring I can shoot my hotter loads and it still functions with the weakest ammo aswell. I use it for hog protection here in the East Texas boonies.a good combo for a non reloader is a 20lb spring in a 5 inch 1911 and underwood, buffalo bore, federal HST all +P it’s pretty great if you favor a 45
GS. Good video. Nice ammo comparison. Great 75Y shooting. I chrono'd some 38 Spl, .357's and .44 Mags today, I forgot how hard the .44 Mag recoil was and that was with an 8.5" barrel. Fun shooting but doesn't make for an exciting YT Video. Take care.
Forgot to say thanks for finding /trying those .380 acp htp s from Remington didn't know they were rolling them great feeding for most autos be blessed
They are great overall. With ammo it's important that it feeds reliably, and then secondary is the performance terminally. The HTP feed as well as others, but unlike others the HTP consistently penetrates well and does not randomly expand, and why that's good is some .380 ACP will hit or miss, jam up or expand one time with 6" of penetration, or penetrate through 32" of gel. The HTP is just right with the bullet weight reducing the momentum, the length of the bullet just right to not tumble and the penetration just right. One had to really take a good overview of .380 ACP and not hyperfocus on pretty petals. And the overview is really good, considering the cost is good too.
.40S&W 165gr Fed HST for me. Thank you.
Great video! I really appreciate your information!
I think a good take away is that the federal rounds are very consistent and you can’t really go wrong regardless of your caliber choice. I pretty much carry the HST in all of my handguns from 9 to 45 because I don’t really have to worry about if it’s going to perform.
Federal does have some great ammo, it's my favorite company. Punch, HST, Hydrashok Deep and even some of the older Hydrashok and Hi-Shok are still really good in some calibers. I like Speer too. After them i'd say I like Winchester. Their quality control could use some work but I like how they just go with stuff like Ranger, Ranger Bonded, Ranger T, USA Ready, Silvertip and the list goes on and on. Remington is okay, their basic revolver ammo is the best if you have some older revolver and you need .38 Short Colt or something. Hornady is okay, maybe a bit better than Remington but they don't have a huge selection beyond XTP and FTX style bullets.
Good video. Great shooting at 75.
I always test my loads for limp wrist. You can get injured. I was once hit with a thrown cement block.
357 is a beast for pistol. And doesnt recoil like 10mm. But all are pistol rounds. Think its a great compromise and you can get 68gr from underwood that doesn’t recoil at all
I have 2 10mm pistols and love them both as they are both fun to shoot, reliable, & accurate. My Springfield Ronin Elite 1911 10mm pistol with its fiber optic sights and 1911 trigger is the king of accuracy, but my modified Glock 20 with the 25 cent trigger jog, -3.0 connector, 5" threaded KKM barrel has less recoil, lighter, & is more fun to shoot. Wouldn't sell either one!
Another great video . Keep up the good work. Would like to see in the future a gel test where you have 4 layers of clothing, 3 inch gel 1/4 inch board, gel block and another 1/4 board between block 1 and 2 with another 4 layers of clothing. I believe this ser up would give you a better indication of over penetration. Just a suggestion.
The real reason I don't put more MDF in place, is that it's less than 10% of the time that a bullet even makes it to that depth, and once they get to that depth, they have lost so much steam that nothing would make it through that board. So then literally every caliber that is close would all be exactly 19" or penetration. That makes the comparisons I often do a lot more difficult.
Excellent video
Great comparison of the "bigger" 4 pistol cartidges. High quality as always. Sadly you didn't brought in the 9mm too, just to get an impression for most of folks using it and deciding if an upgrade is worth it. If you kept your ballistic gel blocks, could you do an "add on" with the 9mm? That would be really awesome! 👍
Thank you for an excellent video. Informative. Still, 80%(+/-) of normal people will EDC a 9mm, if they carry at all. I see the 40 as the only relevant cartridge here. That's right, I SAID IT.😂
I love all the gel testing. I hope there is someone that likes watching you shoot at plates but I couldn't really care any less how well you shoot a particular pistol off hand one day. Means nothing to me. I mention it because I've watched like 100 of your videos and never watched a single one to the end and I think that hurts you in the youtube algorithm. Thanks for the great videos.
I am reviewing something, overall. If I was a shill I would follow what you are saying. The fact that I do my own thing is what people seem to like, except you for whatever reason. To each his own.
@@GunSam I do like what you are doing a lot, which is why I'm subscribed and keep coming back to watch and like your videos. I think your gel testing methodology is the best there is. Just offering constructive criticism. If people click out of your videos half way like I do it negatively affects the algorithm so something to look into. If you don't care about that then so be it.
one thing I really enjoy is when a guy carrying a 9mm calls my .40 S&W "short and weak"
A guy carrying a 357sig can call it that 😜
10mm looks like the best Thick case auto
I think a new Extractor/trigger housing along with the conversion barrel should help reliability
I love my sig p229 in .40 s&w, but I usually carry it with a .357 sig barrel and a few pounds heavier recoil spring.
I was planning on getting a 40 ar pistol for a couple months, then decided against it due to unpopularity. But you may have just rekindled it for me.
Get a 10mm and reload down to 40 if you want.
I love 40 mine are keepers
Enjoy your videos!
Just throwing this out, apologies if you've already covered this: is there any chance that the 10mm round needs a heavier recoil spring to feed reliably?
I have tried a 22 lb NDZ spring and it made no difference. In fact the stock spring is more reliable with most 10mm ammo, it's just when using Buffalo Bore and Underwood that the slide isn't so harsh when I run the 22 lb. But both malfunction
10mm is great as a fairly heavy peice of lead that can move fast and still hold together without much fragmentation in many bullet designs. My 2 cents.
Would love to see grizzly vs buffalo bore 180 grain 10mm
Got a real WILDCAT ROUND 10 MM Necked Down to 357 SIG can you just Imagine the FPS and ENGERY
9x25 dillon
Literally 7.5 fk
The 357Sig is a necked down 10 mm case. If you try to resize a 40 Cal case, it's too short. I'm a reloader, I know.
you are correct sir.@@64samsky
That 10mm def hit the hardest
One thing I don't think can be argued is that your ammo selection was good in all cases. I don't think an ambulance transporting someone who had been center punched with one of those would bother running the lights and siren.
I had like 3 comments that were saying my ammo choices were crap, different people trolling on me. I deleted them because out of the gate they were combative towards me. There might be 'better' choices but it's what I had and I am broke lol
@@GunSam Ha! Well good luck finding more Gold Dots. I'm not sure what's up with Speer, but I'm not finding them anywhere. I haven't looked for that particular style of Winchester. I think your real problem is going to be replacing that ammo! It's feeling sort of 2020ish! :(
I'm not sure what could be said against that ammo. Maybe you ran into some caliber religious folks.
Ammo seek shows 5 pages of Gold Dot available. I had another person comment that there's no Gold Dot. But I see it online the same as I always have.
@@GunSam OK. Good to know. I'm not sure when my last search was. I was looking for the 125gr 38 Spl+P load. I couldn't find Underwood Item 128 either. I think from what I've recently seen, I would probably prefer the Hornady Critical Defense. Of course there is the good old fashioned lead and I found some. So at least I got the cherries. I should also see about getting some cheap target fodder.
Your videos are getting expensive to watch!
My last comment should have gone under your 44 Special video(s).
Guess maybe it’ll come down to what firearms has those two and which one you like better and suits your needs (like size, safety type etc)
first 3 are similar. I've seen 45acp+p almost get 600 fpe. I'm thinking about getting s&w m&p 9mm and sig p229? some have 2 barrels 40& 357 sig use same magazine. thanks
I've had all of these, still do except no 357 SIG but overall the .40 S&W is a very sweet package all things considered. The 10mm is cool but the .40 lends itself to better carry. The 357 SIG is cool too but these days it's stupid expensive to shoot. All of them are better than 9mm. Have you considered buying some Underwood .40 S&W and testing it through the M&P? They offer 135gr up to 200gr.
What ammo is cheap ATM?
Great testing as always , Sam why don't you take that Glock and the conversion barrel to a local gunsmith and have him polish the feed ramp and open the feed ramp up " if that's what he diagnoses " , most gunsmiths have fitted many a Glock conversion barrels by now. It just doesn't make sense to have 7- $800. in a gun and not want to shoot it . I bet the job wouldn't cost much more than $100.00 . Thanks for all the work and information .
Where the heck were you able to find Gold Dot anything ?!
They are everywhere I always shop online at. I wasn't aware they went anywhere, I see them the same as I always have. You must mean in a physical store you don't find them?
@@GunSam, that and I can’t find them on Midway
If you are limited to one retailer, you will always have trouble finding something.
I even have 200gr in 40s&w from Underwood ...
Try putting some heavier magazine springs in for that glock 10mm might work
❤
The best "calibur" is both 357sig & 40cal in any easy barrel swap chassis similar to a Glock 23... Why choose 1 if you can have both with a 10 second barrel swap?
But that 357sig deserves an extended 5.5" or 6" barrel for extra 75 to 100lbs of force.
An extended barrel 357sig HOT round will match a 10mm, or if packed light for speed has the trajectory of a 9mm on steroids.. plus the sig bottleneck rounds don't fail to load... And it's well known to have the flattest trajectory over distance... 10mm is just too big to carry....
Plus the 40/357sig Glocks can also shoot 9mm for target practice. That whole setup avoids ammo shortages and the high cost of target shooting a 40 and sig.
Sam, I don’t think that the reliability aspect of your test is related to the 10mm cartridge. My own experience with a Gen 3 Glock 20 has een extremely reliable. I can’t recall any malfunctions that weren’t ammunition related in 966 documented rounds fired. Your individual sample is likely the cause and not entirely unexpected with a conversion barrel installed. That is unfortunate as the Glock 41 is a very fine handgun. Thanks for sharing the results of your testing. It was interesting as always.
I have talked with many, and seen many many examples of 10mm malfunctions. While some people can run 10mm reliably, if there was no truth to my statements with my Glock conversion out of the way, the 10mm would still be the FBI caliber and .40 S&W would never had been invented. Not much more I can add to that.
@@GunSam
I’m sure the same could be said for any other autopistol caliber. Inherent reliability, or a lack thereof, being attributed to a caliber is incorrect, in my own opinion. In fact, when comparing length to width ratios, the 9mm and 10mm are basically identical. There’s nothing unusual about the geometry of the 10mm. Reliability or a lack of it, is most likely due to individual gun setup, ammo specifications or magazines that are not compatible with one another.
Again, thank you for your content. I watch regularly and enjoy doing so. I hope I’m not coming across as critical or challenging. It’s just not in line with my own experience and frankly I haven’t heard of it before now.
Keep up the great work 👍👍
@@GunSamreally you have seen many, many failures in the 10mm, ummm no you haven't. Unless someone is a reloading moron. 😂
Not sure what you are talking about. I have watched many TH-camrs. And MANY, many....of these videos I have seen them get malfunction after malfunction with 10mm but not other calibers. I would advise against telling someone else what THEY have or have not seen. Because even if no one else cares, it seals the deal that to ME you have no idea what you are talking about. Just means i'm not going to have a debate with someone making up false information, because it's pointless. You are going to "win" in your own mind no matter what. Type whatever trolling nonsense comes next, because I am out.
@@GunSam
Unlike the last person who left a comment, I’m not discrediting your personal experience. I’m only bringing my own experience (close to 30 years of shooting, handloading and extensive research on the subject of ballistics; internal, external and terminal as well as all manner of firearms related subjects) to the conversation. And while I’m far from being some wet behind the ears bigmouth neither am I a subject matter expert, I know where I stand. There is a saying that I think applies to both sides of this debate, perception is reality. Until our own perceptions are changed our realities will not. Thank you for the discussion as I do respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time.
No lone wolf 10mm will work, you have to grind the feed ramp until it's identical to a stock 10mm barrel. I've done it to three.
You brought 2 more barrels after having to grind one down to function?
my eyes are so bad I wouldn't be able to see that metal at 75 yards
I like Underwood 10mm 180gr Gold-Dot
7.62x25mm tokerav next pls
Open the feed ramp....it doesnt run anyway, take a dremel too it
👍😊🎯
If .357 Sig was around when.40 was born the .357 Sig would've been adopted. Now, it's cost prohibitive
No doubt they'll all get the job done but ill stick with 40S&W and 357sig. Especially since thats only 2 i own out of the 4😅
The 10MM will save your friend from the Boar Grizz that attacked him while he went 75 yards from camp to get water. You thought ahead and packed your 10 MM gun instead of your 40 cal. Years later your friend told his grandkids how you saved him from the Grizz, little did he know it was your hunch to leave the 40 cal. home. The years of practice & testing ammo was also a huge help that fateful day. What we shoot echo's throughout eternity, Good Shooting Gun Sam!
There was a story awhile back, and I am not making this up - that two guys were found killed by a grizzly, and with all the evidence, it appears that guy one with the 10mm pistol, left it to walk ironically, 75 yards up to gather some wood or something, grizzly pops up and kills him. Guy two was by the pistol, found dead. The evidence by where to gun was suggested that guy two grabbed the pistol, it didn't fire as it wasn't chambered, and he could never figure out how to work the gun so he was killed too. Moral of the story, is if someone in your party knows nothing about guns, a revolver would be better.
@@GunSamrevolver is always better in the woods
@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS you ever been charged by a bear? Do you know how fast bears can cover distance??? And your really goin to put a so called "multitude of shots" over the effectiveness of a cartridge???😂😂😂 i think you need to do the research buddy...
@@sparky_-mf2csno😅
@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS Trying to be King Solomon on this: 10 MM SIG 220 LEGION SAO RMR 9 ROUNDS 220 GR. Underwood Ammo Hard Cast “Black Cherry” for 75 yard to 1 yard Grizzly Dropped in tracks.
And SW 360 PD Snubbie 5 ROUNDS 180 GR. Underwood Ammo Hard Cast “Black Cherry” for when you jam the 4lb SIG in Grizzly's maw while zero gap contact dumping the Black Cherry into the Surprised Dead Bear.
Determination] 2 guns (1 semi 1 revolver) 14 rounds 5lbs total Protection Package.
Best of both worlds = Dead grizz
I swear i was trying to listen to what you were saying at the end but there was a chipmunk in the background.
He was friendly. I still feel bad for removing one's head. Several years ago I saw one that wouldn't shut up, I pulled a .38 from my pocket and shot from the hip in it's direction just goofing off, and from like 20 yards away I somehow shot it's head off. This was not skill in any way shape or form. It still boggles my mind how that could have happened.
@@GunSam OMG the chances! I know it was not intended to be that funny but it gave me a good chuckle for a minute. it's good information to know that they can fit 5 acorns in their mouth and be ok but one 38 special is too much to handle.
Go ahead and try it, limp wrist a G-20. I bet it will be just fine. I have over 1k rounds in mine both factory and HL. Only ftf was my fault and a slightly unseated primer, that went off after the gun seated it. Btw if a bear is chasing you don't run, shoot well take your time you have the rest of your life to kill the bear. 🐻
I have seen other people shoot them and they malfunction. Now for sure it would be more reliable than my 41 conversion, but I guarantee my GF would jam it up. I had a smaller model 36 Glock and it never, ever jammed. I tried limp wristing and it would not jam, I was convinced it could not jam. I had her shoot it, she's tiny like 4'9" and size 5 shoes, and it jammed every single shot. I was dismayed, like how? Then I limp wristed, and it fired a whole mag, she tries it, out of 6 rounds every one jammed. I concluded that even if you limp wrist, if you are big and got heavy fat arms like me, it will still slingshot the slide forward and run, but if that pistol is traveling backwards from being that tiny or weak, it's gonna jam no matter what.
@@GunSam I guess then I just don't limp wrist when I shoot, I don't let my motorcycle fall over either, I'm weird.
Chipmonk CHIPMONK! chipmonk.
A hole is a hole... all will kill regardless. I love these videos and appreciate the effort btw. Keep it up!!!
You carry a 22 I suppose?
Those would all go right through your typical crackhead. Not interested.
Thoughts;
Quadrant the jello. Don’t cut it, impact in four definite sections of the goo.
Wrap the jello in Crepe paper. Semi tight to get find the tear envelope. Count the number of rips in each quadrant on each level/length to score the expansion during impact. Blue masking tape should real good too.
Build a gravity returned sled, 10-lbs weight to return, measuring scale on the side for travel. High speed, GoPro should work, 200fps, and measure the distance the sled travels with each caliber. Quantify the calculated, Garmin Xero should help, impact.
CCW; my first mag is high expansion. Most likely be dealing with some adrenaline filled convict. I want all energy exhausted within 10 inches. Remaining mags are penetrating barriers most certainly and that’s where I want my reach extended.
I'm a 40 fan. It would be great to see you falling down the hill and shooting at a bear.😂
Why would that be great? You want to see me injured, well that's nice of you.
I thought it was funny
@@rippertrain I guess seeing as I am now always ill, and have hurt my back and can barely walk some days, I fail to find humor in such things.
@@GunSam sorry to hear that. We don't want to see you get hurt. I was just trying to picture a youtuber trying anything for views. I did not make that comment. God bless.
@@GunSam I took it as a joke. If he's serious use a stunt man.😮
10mm vs 327 Federal Magnum
327 Mag vs trying to actually find some
@@corporalpunish6089 It’s all the Old Fudd’s refusing to purchase the ammo off the shelf and instead reloading it themselves.
@@corporalpunish6089 All the Old Fudds reloading it drove the demand off a cliff where manufacturers have zero incentive to make more of it since they know all the Old Fudds won’t buy it and they’ll just reload it instead.
Looks like you ran more ammunition with the 10 mm and you missed right around 3 shots. .357 you 2.
Would not want to be hit by any of them.
All of these are good.i carry 357mag,and 45 acp Winchester 230 grn xtp hollow point 900 fps. Everybody carries what they want.that is what i carry.
I have tried all of these calibers at what I call my realistic self defense distance= 80 ft. The 40 has shown me the best score every time for 12 years now. I don't shoot the woke and trendy 9mm. It's a cap gun. No Glock - Tard here.
I understand how 9mm is trending but no idea how it's woke.
Please stick to revolvers, Sam, Aficionado
Stick to revolvers? Are you trying to ruin me? Most people don't use revolvers, even I do not exclusively use revolvers. Why limit myself?
My 45 acp is a very viable defense round. I us a Colt 1911. It has never failed to cycle. For 2 legs ,hollow point. For 4 legs 230 fmj.
I've never experienced excellent reliability from 1911s.
I was expecting 357 sig to be the underdog
40 cal bullets are expensive 80 dollars for a box of 100 i remember when it cost 25 bucks a brick per 100 rounds .
HST 40sw box of 50 is running about $25 a box online. ATM
If you ever need to smelt your own metals, just go 15 feet behind that steel target and just to the right and dig.
Not how it is. I've tried explaining that left is center, center is right and a 4 ft area compresses to looking 12" squared on camera. So your directions would be significantly wrong. Just saying
I got everything but .45. Boomer caliber
Fun fact: take a Glock 32 .357 Sig put 9 mm. Luger in it and it will fire suffering no malfunctions or without any significant loss in accuracy. The 9mm. cases bulge but it extracts them just fine.
The problem, there though, is performance would have to suffer. If that 9mm did about 1,150 FPS in a 4" 9mm pistol, I would bet money that in a .357 Sig pistol of equal barrel length, you would see less than 1,000 FPS. When the pressure isn't contained and doesn't instantly go forward, it goes outward, and even though there's only one place for power to exit, the bullet is gone before that full pressure is reached making the velocity suffer.
@@GunSam come to think 🤔 of it you are right there, though I never measured the velocity of the 9 from the Glock 32 with a chronograph. Maybe it will be an idea for a video?
I carry the Glock 32c, I have the 9mm and 40 Cal conversion barrels. No problems for me.
My colt 1911 is very accurate. It has never failed to cycle. Its the pistol. I can head shoot a man target at 50 yds. Ill loan you my pistol as long as you shoot 230 grn fmj Winchester. To prove it. Its the quality of the firearm.
I've owned six 1911s and none were as reliable as my P220.
Can I ask the manufacturer. Because everyone makes a 1911. Some good some excellent. And some crappy. My Colt 1911 gov model are both excellent.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o Actually, I've owned more than 6. I've owned 2 colts, 2 sigs, and 2 rugers that I can remember. I also owned a para double stack. Both Colts didn't like anything but ball. Both Sigs had ejection issues. 1 ruger had mag issues. The other ruger, I don't recall any issues. I don't recall any issues on the para either, but i did not shoot them often. I've owned/traded a lot of pistols and can't recall wanting to keep any 1911 other than a Colt, and that was just for collecting, and I've really tried to like them. I sold them all because I won't keep a gun I won't carry. I've considered buying an S&W 1911, but I think I'll just give up on them. I'm pretty well covered with pistols now and not looking for another 45. I may get another 10mm, but not in 1911. I've found the P220 to be a better alternative to the 1911 "for me." I wasn't fond of Glocks 45 offerings either, but I had no mechanical issues with them. ATM, my most carried pistols are a P365XL 9mm and a P229 Legion 357 sig.
If I'm in the woods, I'll take the G20 in 10mm. I always hear about 1911 reliability. I've just not personally experienced it.
Well I can tell you my Colts 1911 like Winchester 230 ball ammo. I agree with that 100 percent. And I can tell you from army experience in Afghanistan. It will do the job.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o I've no doubt 45 will do the job. There's a video of a one hit stop. Guy dropped like a sack of potatoes. I think that if we were limited to only one caliber, I'd pick 40. It's a good balance of power,penetration, and capacity. Also, it's related to the 10mm and 357sig.
The .357 sig is a cuit round but its good but master of none
No way. The 9mm is the the wonder cartridge that has been pushed to nauseum. It's the do all, bear, elk, and elephant cartridge. It will make you be like John Wick! It will wash your clothes! It can do anything. That's why I carry a Glock 32c in 357Sig, most of the time. I also occasionally carry 40Cal and 45. I plan on getting a 10mm.
What's your caliber of choice?
Can you compare the 10mm to a 45 super?