Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum VS .40 S&W Ballistic Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2021
- Testing out the Winchester Silvertip in .357 Magnum and .40 S&W. The .357 Magnum is a 145 gr STHP and the .40 S&W is a 155 gr STHP. I do a ballistic gel test with and without 1/4" medium density fiberboard to represent ribs or sternum. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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Never understood the anger toward .40. It's one of my favorite rounds.
I think because it hurt a few Glocks back when the Glock wasn't fully supported chamber yet. Now that I say it, it makes sense lol. Glock fanboys and 9mm fanboys that are devoted to one of those are the worst!
@@GunSam I have a 9mm and a .357. My .40 is my bedside only because my .357 is a 6 shot. I think .40 with the right load is a very effective self defense round.
@@weirdshibainu you shoot whatever you are comfortable with and can put shots where you want them👍
btw im a big 40 fan myself carry a first gen shield in 40 everyday
got everything from a taurustx22 to a 1969 colt python in my safe
@@GunSam the .40 is upsetting to traditionalist.
9mm wristlets trying to cope
As Paul Harrell said: “If over penetration is a really big concern for you, selecting some thing other than 357 magnum might be a good choice.“
Or just go with a 110 or 125 grain SJHP in .357 Magnum. The 110's tend to "underpenetrate" with the FBI ballistics protocols, but the US Border Patrol had no problems with them back in the 1970's.
The Remington 125gr SJHP gets about 9 inches of penetration in bare gel
The 9mm silvertip didn’t “fail” per se during the 1986 FBI shootout. It actually performed as designed and caused a fatal wound to the suspect….just slowly. But the FBI needed “something” or someone to blame for the loss of four agents, when it was really poor tactics and poor training that they received. The FBI didn’t like the fact that one 9mm silvertip, failed to penetrate the suspect’s heart, by missing it by mere millimeters. It was more of a shot placement issue, than the failure of the round itself.
357 mag still so scarce around these parts (as is .38 special and .380 acp) that I’ve had to switch to carrying 9mm so I can at least train a bit. As always, thanks for the content!
9mm usually simulates .38 Special pretty well for feel. That .357 Mag will feel pretty stout after 9mm training.
I saw about 15 boxes of 380 Blazer range ammo at Bass Pro Shop this morning and was tempted to buy it but I don't shoot my 380 much anymore.
9mm sucks just sold mine and a case of hst ammo after a few back yard test.
@Jason Vorhees after shooting all kinds of different things with 9mm 40 and 357sig with the same ammo type the 9mm did far less damage than the other 2. All 3 pistols were the same platform glock full size and the 9mm was least accurate.
@Jason Vorhees dropping the 9mm took care of the problem.
Back in the 80's the number one man stopper was 357 mag, 125 gr with a 96% 1 shot stop (Combat Handguns - Massad Ayoob) 40 S&W is literally a semi auto 357. Faster, lighter bullet does more soft tissue damage (Ayoob) If you get a chance, like to see 357 125 gr vs 40 S&W 135 gr test. I still carry 4006 to this day. Heavy yes, but built like a tank. Manufactured plastic for 40+ yrs, it cracks, warps, melts, rots. Of course I'm partial to stainless. I believe the FBI wimps just couldn't handle a full power cartridge !! They wanted something that would stop a car, rumor says. Funny how they went back to 9 mm.
That 40S&W kicks butt
A 155 gr. projectile at 1,250 fps is impressive. The expansion was very impressive; nearly 3/4 of an inch expanded diameter and the penetration depth was good. I might have to give Silvertips a chance. I'd like to see what this ammo does out of a 4" or 3.5" carry sized pistol.
These are what I keep in my wife's Glock 22 and she shoots em pretty damn well
4" g23... just a hair under advertised velocity. This is a great round with awesome street results. 👌
This exact load would have ended Miami Dade much quicker
@@Wildwestwrangler
Yes.
Had it existed.
40 is such an underrated round with lighter loads, I EDC a sig p239 in 40 and also have a S&W 4006 TSW CHP. 40 isn't obsolete, it just isn't a good round for guns weighing under 1.5 lbs like 9mm is.
Yea I have a g27 and it has an attitude problem
I shoot a g35 in 40. I like it so much I put trijicon HD night sights on it. The long slide really tames the hot loads down.
@@rippertrain that guns awesome man just a little big for me to carry but I'm maybe 5"10 135lbs. I'm thinking about getting those sights. How are they working for you and how hard/easy are them to install
@@anthonysmith3132 I had them installed at my local gunsmith. You need a special tool or you will scratch the slide. They are awesome sights for fast target acquisition. Not so good for competitive bullseye shooting. I absolutely LOVE them
@@rippertrain I want a front sight that's a little slimmer than the factory for farther shots that take up the whole sight
Sam, have a question for you. Have you ever questioned the FBI's testing procedures? I have always wondered why no one questions why you would put 4 layers of denim in front of the gel block or anything else you shoot when testing. Who wears 4 layers of denim?? Yes, I get it that in cold country a suspect will have more clothing on, but I have never seen anyone have 4 layers of denim on. It just seems crazy that everyone just assumes that the FBI is the end all in bullet testing. For example, take the issue of over penetration and trying to get a bullet to just go 14 to 16 inches and stop. Over penetration is moot when you know that police officers miss 80% of their shots in a gunfight. As far as I am concerned, the FBI lost all credibility with me when they did away with the 9mm after the Miami shootout and then go right back the 9mm. If you read their findings justifying going back to the 9mm they said that they were not saying that the 9mm was the best cartridge to use, but that it was best for the FBI. They said that they have a lot of female agent and small agents and they are able to shoot the 9mm better. Just an old 357 Magnum law dogs musings. I love your channel!
I’ve thought this too. Who knows if cost wasn’t a major factor as well.
I'd imagine the denim 4layers was used because in late 80 early 90s it was common for people to wear denim jackets along with the famous mullet.lmao
The entire idea of ballistic gel and the stupid FBeye “testing” protocol is RANK GARBAGE.
You want a real test of the gun and ammo? Kill animals with it. Find a place and time to go deer or goat hunting and kill animals with your carry pistol and ammo.
.40 and .45 both provide fast and consistent kills, often with an exit wound, and 9mm in ANY flavor always sees delayed kills with long dead-runs and little to no blood to follow.
Yeah, I've always thought that it's a little obnoxious that an overwhelming majority of people don't actually understand the physics of terminal ballistics and just blindly parrot the fallacy that a round is worthless if it doesn't land exactly on that magical number 12 after passing through an absurd cloth barrier.
It just seems like the 357 hits at 25 yards harder. Even looks like it removes more paint.
Nice review. 40 is a good round that I feel kinda gets overlooked and/or hated on even. Clearly it does the job with the proper ammunition. Here it went toe to toe with a 357 Magnum. Maybe it was a light magnum but still decent power.
I don’t own a 40 caliber but it will be my next semi auto purchase. Be hard to actually pick a winner here for me. 357 is my favorite and I suppose you shot the 686 a better but I think you just shoot it better than most of your guns. Good test.
NICE! This one I was really waiting for... It's an excellent content, as always. Great work, Sam.
Thank you.
The .40 is a better round for my purpose. Yes it's more expensive than the 9, but much less than the .357. Back in the day the .357 with the 125 jhp were king of the carry pieces. Now, it seems like most want the 9 which has come a long way, but it will never reach the .40. Back in the day the silvertips could always be counted on to expand unlike many early hp bullets. Thank you for all the tests you do for us.
Thanks for watching!
.40 s&w is the ideal cartridge caliber, but 180gr was always too heavy for the .40 s&w, great for 10mm auto though! Between 135gr minimum and 165gr maximum parameters with 155gr/150gr is the best weight bullet for the .40 s&w!
Totally agree 💯 a 155 grain bonded HP 1,200 fps 40s&w is the best & most effective anti-personnel round from a Glock22 or any other full size 40s&w pistol.
That’s the mildest recoiling magnum I’ve ever seen. Good info, keep ‘em coming Sam.
That 40 is impressive! Like that cheap defensive Silvertip round!
I didn't even put it together on the range how much energy it had, because the recoil was so low. In video editing i'm like, is that right? lol
I’m carrying my S&W 686+ today (as usual), but I’m still a fan of .40 S&W. I’m sitting on 3,000 rounds of .40 FMJ, and probably 600 rounds of JHP. The pistol is a Sig P229. I love these out of fashion calibers. 👍👍👍👍👍
You can never have enough ammo. Just look at the number of people who can't get any thing looks like the day's of low cost fmj is gone.
@@mikecacciatore543 Hi Mike. I believed the prediction that Hillary would be president, so my wife and I stockpiled everything in 2016. We haven’t needed to buy ammo since then. 👍🇺🇸
Back when we carried real guns (.357Mag revolvers) we were issued Federal Hydroshock, Remington 125 SJHP, and Winchester Silvertip. Of the three, the Winchester loads were a might less effective than the others. The Federals gave a good account of the the one shot fatalities on suspects that were stupid enough to try and shoot it out with our offices. The Remington, the old standby, did almost as well in the one shot stopping business. The county Medical examiner's office once advised that the overall damage to tissue by the Remington bullet was what he judged others by.
That Remington is in my 4" revolver. The Hydrashok is decent, always consistent also, but I prefer the slightly less harsh recoil of the 125 gr Remington.
Not me!!The silver tip is excellent.
With that Remington UMC 125 grain I get just a bit over 1,600 fps with my Ruger GP100 6" stainless.
This silvertip is not exactly the same as the old silvertip.
Seriously a good test. Must've been a pain but the multiple shots through different barriers really makes it easy for me to get the info I need. Good stuff.
This is the closest I've been able to shoot my new GP100 and box of Silvertip.
Maybe next week I'll get out.
Thanks. Good information.
Probably the two best EDC rounds for someone needing something for around town AND in the hills. Definitely not grizzly bear territory, but everything else... absolutely. I like a little heavier bullets for 4 legged critters, but a 125 JHP for the 357 or a 155 for the 40 in urban areas is about right. GREAT test and review my friend!
Nice to see the 40 s&w enter into 357 mag territory while packing 15+1 rounds of it at over 500ftlbs of energy!!!! That's a lot of firepower!!!
A cup of coffee and a new video, nice start to a long day : )
Most people that doesn't like 40 cal. Can't handle the extra recoil lol
Picture perfect test runs and as always great shootin. Thanks for making high quality material.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the videos Gun Sam no one does what you do!
These 2 rounds are excellent, I love them both. Thanks
Great video as usual. I just came across some of those silver tips in 22LR. They worked pretty good in a video I’ve got coming out Friday where I shot various types of 22LR into something…it’s a secret until the video comes out
I discovered your channel very recently and subscribed.
Both preformed very good. 👍👍Thanks for your excellent test.
Thanks for watching!
As always Sam great video 👍🏼
Two of my favorite SD cartridges … I have 3 guns in 40 S&W Glock 27 Glock 23 and a Charter Arms Pitbull in 40S&W
2 revolvers in 357 both Rugers 4 inch Security Six and a LCR357
That Smith&Wesson in your hands is golden 👍
Which one lol. Both guns are S&W.
Have you seen him with the M&P 2.0 9mm? Makes me want one.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ sorry the 357 , the 40 is good but you with the 9mm and the 357is a close race different days 🤷♂️ on which one is better.
Robert B yes an he’s very good with it, like you it makes me want one.
"Failed" is a strong word (and the word the FBI used to toss out the 9x19). In fact, the round that hit Platt went through his arm, blew out his brachial artery (creating what was described as a likely non-survivable wound), entered his chest, transversed his right lung, collapsing it, and cutting his pulmonary artery (creating a non-survivable wound in the parlance of the ME at the time) and stopped about an inch from his heart. In fact, he was hit two other times (arm and leg, I think) AND took a full load of 00B to his ankle yet never missed a step. Both he and Mattix took head wounds from pistol rounds but although Mattix initially is believed to have passed out, he woke back up with clear lethal intent. Neither stopped being a threat until hits to their spinal cords (both from head shots, one severed Mattix's spinal cord and one bruised Platt's). IIRC both of those hits, while fired from .357 revolvers (S&W model 13 3" IIRC), both from .38 spl +p 158 gr LSWCHP if I remember right.
Sorry, not trying to be pedantic I just think that round did a great job and performed exactly as designed. The hit was in a poor location yet was still lethal and even buckshot "failed." The whole thing was a tactical failure but at that time with tactics of the day, I doubt anyone would have done better. The outcome is what really got police working on better tactics and started the modern ammo debates. That and someone at the FBI obviously wanted 10mm (probably a Miami Vice fan, LOL). ;)
I am not an expert on that event, and have sort of taken a popular overview of the 9mm Silvertip in the same way that some people say the .38 Special failed that day. Not saying I am right, just saying that even I sometimes listen to internet "experts" and get the wrong information. That being said I have had a lot of people tell me that the 1980's Silvertip had an aluminum jacket as where the current ones are not. I have no idea if that would make a difference or not if it happened today. Nonetheless I would say a lot of people probably wrongly felt that the 9mm Silvertip failed, so when the "new" FBI round was a thing in the 1990's and if .40 Silvertip existed then, people might have had the same question I did.
@@GunSam - I hope you didn't take that as a criticism. I may have come across more sharply than intended. Yep, it had an aluminum jacket. And the Silvertips today are different, more modern (a good thing). The old STHP had issues, don't get me wrong. They were infamous for getting set-back into the case after being cycled through the action once or twice (.380 was the worst, as far as I'm concerned). Insofar as the shooting, would folks based a lot of opinion on the performance of one bullet, and as your tests of have shown, two bullets from the same box can differ an inch or more in the same medium. In any case, I'm sure the rounds you just tested, being modern, are improved over the old design.
@@CeltKnightI agree. It's easy to say that buckshot, for example, "failed" to kill the guy, but that's entirely because of where it hit.
i carry this round in .40- except in the Ranger box. Fantastic performance every time I've seen it tested
Always a good video. And good shooting. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Thank you.
Very few of the guns we buy fall into the Goldilocks category, same with ammo. Silver tips has been that round for me for decades. Great review and impressive shooting progress. Sempre Fi.
Thanks a lot.
Many thanks. Always look forward to your reviews. In this one I perceive that there would be no discernible difference in real world effectiveness and autopsy analysis. I have both same or similar handguns and my favorite is ….. the one that I have in my hand at the time when I am doing IDPA shooting. I have zero real world experience and hope to never gain any.
Content is better than ever.
👍I'm digging all this content you've been putting out lately. 👍 👍 Both rounds did very well, the .357 sure did a lot better from the 4in than out of the snub,and didn't make you bleed lol. Looked like quite a bit less recoil as well.
Yeah, it's weird. Some say that the snub is not in time, but I say why don't that happen with a lot more ammo then. I think the Silvertip may be oversized.
My first centerfire revolver was a S&W686 and my first semi-auto was a Sig 229 .40. This was about 1992? They're still my go-to for carry and general shooting. I see they perform pretty close to the same in your testing. It reinforces what I always suspected. Thanks for the video.
Great comparison. Thanks
Thank you.
Great test! I liked the way both of these performed! I would feel well protected sporting these Silvertips in either caliber....
Thank you.
The 155 grain .40 S&W Silvertip was one of the best 90's era .40 loadings.
And according to Marshall and Sanows research statistics from the time?
Was about on a par with .357 magnum 125 grain perp stopping stats.
Well, in that DOCUMENTED, 90-96% one shot stop bracket.
Nowadays.
If one picks up a box of Winchester Silvertip .40 and looks at the ballistics Winchester advertises?
It's muzzle energy still exceeds the best 9mm+P ballistics from companies like Federal or even Winchesters own 124 grain 9mm +P PDX line.
And still coming very close or even matching a lot of brands 125 grain .357 magnum ammo.
Surprised how hard the 40 hit the steel target. Was surprised to see the 40 had more Ft.lbs of energy (533 vs 483). Looks like you get varying degrees of loads, just like in the 10mm. Amazing and enjoyable video, as always, & I always play your videos before I look at anything else. Thanks for your dedication and excellent presentation.
Thank you. Yeah here we had a lower than typical .357 Mag and higher than typical .40. The surprising thing was the Silvertip .40 is more powerful than the Buffalo Bore .40+P.
Because ammo manufacturers have been watering down a lot of revolver ammo.
As time passes you are becoming a good shot. I guess practice makes perfect.
i was noticing that his shooting has improved over the last couple of years, also.
*perfect practice makes perfect*
good job sam
Excellent shooting Sam. .357 magnum still reigns supreme. .40 cal in the light to medium grain load is still a worth round to use if nothing else outside of a magnum round. I have both 9mm and .40 cal Glocks with metal recoil guides to help with recoil control and longevity. ♠️☯️🎩
Thanks!
@@GunSam you're welcome Sam.
I just acquired box of those 145 grn 357 Silvertips. I Replaced the 158 grn Federal JSPs in my Office drawer gun with them. It is a SW 19-3, 2.5 inch, and should not shoot hotter, lighter loads. 145 Grn at around 1150 fps in that barrel is about perfect. My office is in an outbuilding here in Rural New England, and would be called upon more for critter problems, like coyotes and such. I don't generally like Silvertips, but am glad to see how they perform here.
Nice VId. Thank you.
Thanks.
Gratifying to see how well the 40 did. I expected it, with that velocity. I was hoping for a touch more expansion from the 357, say .60" or so, but it still did well, a little over 1.5x expansion. The Silvertips have been redesigned 2 or 3 times since 1986. The 9mm in the FBI shootout actually did well. It penetrated rhe arm, broke the humerus bone, entered the chest cavity, and stopped slightly short of the heart. Few if any handgun bullets of the time could have done any better, and most 9mm's would not have done as well. The FBI chose to focus on bullet performance and gloss over poor training and tactics, iffy marksmanship, etc. No disrespect to the agents involved- felony stop procedures were not as evolved then. They did the best they could with what they had. It is worth noting that one perp was neutralized with the initial shots, in the car. The other one, with the rifle, did all the damage after sustaining that wound. Never understimate the power of adrenalin. Most sources indicate the tox reports were clean. The perps were not hyped up on drugs, as was initially believed. A good argument for rifles in LE, as was the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout 11 yrs later.
I have never been a big student of the FBI Miami Dade shootout, so maybe somebody has brought this up before. I read recently where the two agents with 357s were shooting .38 +p. If that is true, then some of the hits with those revolvers like the one in the face on the perp who got knocked unconscious during the firefight and woke up to keep fighting may have been more lethal if the agents would have been using full power 357 loads. Handguns won't put people down immediately, but deeper penetration and larger wound channels will certainly help.
@@WilliamMunnyIII - As far as i know, the FBI did not allow 357 Mag ammo (even though they started issuing the 3" Model 13 in the early 70's). They used, after 1972, the 158 gr +p LSWCHP, which was made for them. Many agencies used it, well i to the 1980's, and possibly even into the 90's (i know the RCMP had a hot version for their 5" Model 10's into the mid 90's). It is a good load, but of course not a 357. That was what Ed Mireles ended the fight with, carefully aiming for head shots from his 4" 586. Interestingly, the FBI's first issue gun was the 3.5" 357 (pre Model 27) in the 30's. The 125 gr SJHP in the 357 confounded the FBI in their ammo tests in the late 80's, because it usually refused to penetrate their established minimun of 12" in gel. However, real results from the street, it dropped perps right now. And it is still one of the best 357 loads out there. The FBI tests led to the midrange 10mm, which in turn led to the 40 S&W, and greatly improved bullets across the board, so some good did come from it.
thank you for all your research. it looks like the 40 performs a little better than the 357 here. now that you're using gel instead of jugs, you might want to write a bok comprised of your findings.
Very well made video
Thank you.
Good show ,even loaded down to wimp level that 357 would be ok,the 40 is great.
I'm slow. I just figured out in today's video at 45 seconds in the medium density fiberboard was MDF. I've been wondering "Self, what is MDF?" Got it....
I like your tests. They're hard to refute. They're not exhaustive or infallible but very hard to argue with.
Sam if you can find Test the .40sw Magtech Gold 155 grain jhp, that load was and till this day is widely used by millitary police here in Brasil , with GREAT street performance, MANY bad guys here got wasted by that ammo, with only 1 or 2 hits in the torso ... the handgun used is in general 4,5 or 5 inch barell service weapon such as taurus pt 100, 24/7 and imbel md7....
I was surprised to see the .40 produce more power and larger expansion than the .357 and not over penetrate.
Depending on the price that might be a viable carry option.
My 'go to' 40 cal is an HST.
I have a box of 38 super silvertip and I love the stuff. I know it has gotten a bad rap in the past but so far so good. Now if we can find the stuff without having to take out a second mortgage to buy it.
Despite the common Silvertip label , the individual loadings had very different design parameters , with oversimplified being either : Penetrate to deep end of ( human ) self defense , with simultaneously being medium penetration for Hunting/ large animal self-defense . Think ST in .357 Mag , 9mm 147gr, .40S&W , 10mm , .41 Mag , .44 Mag . Or maximum Expansion , even at expense of penetration . Think .32acp , 380acp , 9mm 115gr , .44 Spl , .45acp 185gr , .45 Colt .
Multiple .38 Spl loads with 95gr , 110gr , 125gr , in both standard velocity and +P .
Trivia - the .357 Mag ST was one of the first mass market .357 Mag loadings to be fully flash suppressed .
Cool video thanks.
Great video. I have a 40 S&W with a 4 inch barrel and a 4 inch Ruger Gp100 and silvertip ammo in both calibers. The silvertip has a reputation for shedding its jacket and underpenetrating in the .40 during testing for FBI protocols. This was particularly true when hard barriers were used such as car doors and windshields. I see that you did not have that issue and penetration with both was spot on. I am curious as to how well the .357 will do in my newly acquired Dan Wasson with an 8 inch barrel.perhaps Winchester improved the bonding process after seeing complaints of jacket and core separation.
I’d like to hear your results…on that. Post em, Rory.
Great test! Great shooting! I really liked you calling your shots. Don't you hate it when you hit the Carriage Head Bolt! I'm always glad to see it survive though!
I have hit the bolt a lot with no issues. I use the Caldwell brand T-post hanger.
@@GunSam I'm gonna eventually get a t post hanger. I have a homemade one for 2X2 boards with a base made from an old 4 way lug wrench. Mine is a 2/3 silhouette so not as heavy as yours. Fun!
Great video as always. Very good info. Ammo is becoming much easier to find and I’m always wondering how the self defense rounds will perform.
Thank you. Yeah, and now that we realize how lucky we used to be, getting it is even more fun.
Wow, it looks like Winchester has really dialed in the Silvertip in terms of performance. I’ll have to grab some next time I find it.
Not bad results. Thank you. Either is a viable option.
Would love to see a 357 Sig comparison to these calibers too.
I just got me a box of this stuff to pack in my sig P226 .40 cal.
Hopefully it never gets used 👍
Interesting test. I normally don't see the silver tips performing all that well.
1205 obviously tested with a 4 inch barrel. That 5th inch adds a little more.
I’m sure that Winchester published the test barrel length for the 357 also.
You make good videos partner. Keep it up.
Thanks.
That 40 was awesome for the money hard to beat it
40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions
A fair 1 to 1 comparison via scaled to match would be a 180gr .357 magnum vs 135gr .40 s&w
Whoa! Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that velocity put that .40 round into the realm of 10mm Norma? That's definitely hotter than the 165gr HSTs I have in any of my .40s. WOW! :O And it went to almost 17" too. I was at a ballistic seminar once and we shot .40 HST (165 from my Kahr PM40 and I think 180 gr from a Glock with a custom 6" bbl) through gel with 2 layers of t-shirt and both stopped exactly at 16". Seems like 16 - 17 " is the magical spot for the better .40 rounds. "Enough" penetration and some pretty good tissue destruction.
The .357 surprised me. I might misremember but I thought the .357 STHP was lackluster "back in the day." My info was wrong or they've updated a few thing. Either way, I like it! ;)
As always, EXCELLENT video and great information! Thanks!
I like both calibers. But this is a great video that shows a person ( Attacker) is just as stone cold dead with either calibur. I am a little surprised by how well the 40 did.
Nice neck shot with that beautiful 357 bro🤣✌🇺🇸
I'd like to see the winchester white box 180 gr hollow point.. supposedly it's the ranger run off but don't know how true it is
I thought the magnum was just going to blow away the .40 , it was a fairly close comparison, Nice ! , I still have a box of the Black Talons I've always liked the .40 cal .
AS i always said .40 sw in full size guns, can get pretty close to 357 mag levels, i see no point in 357 sig, just go with .40sw with lighter bullets..... generally 158 grain 357 mag in 4 inch barrels are about 1200 fps, going up to 1400 fps in HOT loads.
The Silvertip for FBI 3" S&W13 did 13.76" .499-don't know if this is average of all their tests or not w 82.5% overall. Assuming not great against windshields and steel, but still seems good for Civilians based on your MDF results. The Postal Service Inspectors carried Federal 125 sjhp in there very special 3" G33 Ruger Six.
The Winchester 40 S&W Silvertip seems to be best in 40 class as far as I can tell and very comparable to the 357 Mag.
Nice video thank you. Play it again Sam
Thanks.
I have Good luck with Silver Tips 10mm , 44 mag , 30-30 , 308 ... not sure about the new 22Lr . Sam did other Silver Tip tests that they did well .
Gun Sam...... Could I request a Gel test with both 4 in and snub .38 Special Buffalo Borer LHP +P please? Im having to carry a 38 Spl revolver on a new security contract and want to use this ammo. Thanks for all you do!
I don't own a .40 S&W handgun, but anyone that calls it short and weak, is an ignorant fool.
Yea, I think that saying came about when people started carrying the tiny little 9mm pistols and then had the brilliant idea to start carrying tiny little 40 cal. pistols. The velocity changes much when the barrel length goes from 5" to 3". There's a reason you don't see gun companies releasing new models or updated versions of the compact 40's that they had 10 years ago.
It always depends on what it's compared to but I get it that phrases are parroted. From the 10mm down the lower velocity FBI load (180gr @1000fps) to .40 S&W small primer what is often sold a bit slower as well. The FBI load is about 420 FPE and so is a 124gr+P 9mm like a HST which has better barrier penetration. So why bother? Same energy, less capacity, more wear, snappier recoil curve and not enough chamber support in a lot of handguns. If one gets a good deal on a police turn in and ammo was cheap it makes totally sense to go for it or if one already has a 10mm.
357 silver tip was the next best thing to the typical semi jacket hollow points and semi jacket flat nose back in the day.
Definitely takes a combat hold. Mine hits dead center of the front dot with the tops perfectly lined up.
I have this same m&p fde 2.0 in 40, and use this load and the 165 speer gold dot. I think if a close opportunity presents itself I'll try the winchester 40 silvertip on a deer. Should have plenty of horsepower within 40 yards which I'm comfortable shooting too. I can hit a pop can that far if I am dilligent.
I'm so confident in .40 S&W that when I was low on 180 gr HST, I loaded my house defense gun's magazine -first half HST and then 7 or 8 rounds after that is Federal Train+Protect 180 gr JHP. I just haven't invested in some new ammo after using what I had to run various TH-cam tests/videos. It's such a good caliber/cartridge that most ammo is going to stop a threat pretty well. Now if I was relying on 9mm i'd not be so careless about it. Would need to be only Gold Dot or HST, only +P of a lighter weight.
Are you sure the velocity of the 357 magnum was not write it in a 6 inch barrel?
Hi Sam, did the 357 rounds seem hotter or more mild shooting? Andbany chance of testing these Silvertips out of a 3 inch barrel? Or the Fiocchi 148gr JHP. Thanks for your time.
This was filmed nearly 2 years ago and I film a lot of tests. No way I can remember how they shot for feeling/recoil. I don't currently have a 3" in .357 Mag.
Going to stay with Hornady critical duty. My berretta px4 hold 17 +1.
I haven't tried the .40 yet, but I did recently film a gel test with Critical Duty .357 Mag and .45 ACP that also includes a metal barrier before the block in addition to just denim in front.
Just curious where you shoot is that a private range or just somewhere in public or your property? Great video
Thanks. My family has owned the property for about 100 years. I slowly sort of made it into a "range" over the course of 10 years.
That is so cool 👍
145/158gr is good enough for me, and if I'm scared of overdoing it, 125gr, will work.
Sometimes I listen to your videos while driving . Could you articulate the expanded diameters also ?
lol, well the problem is that they aren't measured while i'm on the range, so I can't know the expanded diameter while i'm out there and talking.
Wonder how if any the Silvertips have or had not changed over the years
One of my patrons gave me an 1980's box of 10mm Silvertip, full box. I'm afraid to shoot it lol but would be cool to see if there's a difference.
135gr Cor Bon in 40sw?
Cool video do you see a big difference in 125 grain and 110 grain 357 magnum in recoil?
I haven't really shot the standard 110 gr loads other than Remington 110 gr in a snub. So in a snub yes the 110 gr will have less recoil, but in a full size revolver the difference is less. I mean, the 110 gr would feel like a .38+P, but the 125 gr Magnum in a full size gun is barely more than that.
I got some .38 special ammo that is loaded with roud nose led bullets.. wondering how do they compare to semi jacketed led bullets.. is it reasonable to carry non-jacketed led in my carry gun?
They should have a little less felt recoil, they will probably also produce some smoke. If they are 158 gr they may or may not tumble a bit upon impact. That being said, semi jacketed can be +P and can be 125 gr, which might cause more nose deformation and damage.
Watching the .357mag headshots, you can clearly see the bullets shatter. Probably explains the shrapnel.
Love both rounds. That said, .357 ammo has become very weak due to gun manufacturers making snubby magnum revolvers in ultralights. Full load .357’s in a 4” are well over 1500fps & 1700fps in 6” in underwood’s &/or Buffalo Bore. I can see by the lack of recoil that Winchester downgraded the .357.
I want a 10mm so I can shoot 40s but when I want to pack a punch load 10s but they are way more expensive and a 40 is plenty on its own
Any chance we could see how the Federal 200gr .44 Special LSWCHP stacks up to your test protocol?
I have been trying for over a year to acquire that round. I just haven't found it available anywhere.
@@GunSam If I had more than one 20 round box, I would send you some!
The 200 gr Speer JHP (usyally seen in the Blazer line) would be a worthy one to test also
I have a Gen 3 Glock 22 and the spent cases have Glock smile I’m told this is normal but in the back of my mind I’m like I hope this case doesn’t rupture
you could probably just get an aftermarket barrel with more support, or shoot light loads.