I found your conversation about reliability and suitability to be interesting. But you failed to add another dimension to that discussion. I began driving and repairing cars around 1950. In 1950 a person would expect the following routine maintenance for their car. Oil change every 1000 miles with chassis lubrication of about 15 lube fittings. New spark plugs and ignition tune-up every 10,000 miles. New tires and shock absorbers every 20,000 miles. New exhaust system every 35,000 miles. Top end rebuild of engine with regrind of valves and tappet adjustment around 50,000 miles. At around 70,000 miles most people were trading in their vehicles because of excessive body rust out or need for an expensive rebuild of the engine or transmission. Today's cars are so much more reliable and sustainable with regards to their basic functionality, but they do suffer from too many components and unnecessary conveniences that compromise the overall reliability. Today I expect a car to be reliable transportation for at least 200,000 miles. Today I drive a 2018 Kia Niro hybrid with every convenience imaginable. I've got 55,000 miles on it without any maintenance except oil changes every 7,500 miles and one set of new tires. Recalling the hours I've spent over the years under the hood or under the car, I am absolutely delighted with the progress of automotive technology.
I remember those times also. Including changing out the motor in my VW Beatle. You jacked the car up, went under on a creeper unbolted the engine, dropped it onto your chest, and get someone to pull you out from under by the ankles. Installing the replacement engine was the reverse but you had to muscle up to lift it up onto the mounts.
That's well said. I remember as a teenager in the 1970s helping my Dad with car maintenance, which took up a lot of weekends. I've been driving a Kia e-Niro (Niro EV in the USA) for nearly 5 years now here in France. In 94,000 km it has been very reliable. There's a guy on the Niro Owners forum whose job is to escort long loads in the USA, he has a Niro hybrid and has covered over 250,000 miles in it, says its the most reliable car he's ever had.
Excellent recount of a time I don't want to revisit......points and condensers setting the timing with a timing light reading timing marks on the fan belt drive wheel.....
I drove a Volt between 2014 and 2018, I drove a Bolt EV between 2018 and 2023 and now I drive a Tesla M3 LR AWD. None of the cars above had a single problem that was related to reliability. It would be great to know how CR decides what's reliable or not, in the layman terms, not too fancy. Reliability to me is something that works every time as intended and when it's about cars, it means I can use it every single time I need it. Over almost 10 years, the 3 cars I had were the most reliable of the all I had before. And like myself are many others. And I will give you a hint : I never was asked by any CR like company what I believe about my car or how I would rate it. How do you get your information for this kind of study and then put a verdict that the BEV are less reliable than the ICEV in 2023 ? If it were 2012, yeah, I would have said you are maybe right, given the Leaf and Ford Focus EV. But after 10+ years, the EVs of 2023 are above the 2023 ICEV in regards of reliability. P.S. I re-watched the video and I know now what reliability means to you : a pothole that is hit or the cost of a fender bender. From 24:40 to the end your guy explains it best. All things that have nothing in comon with reliability but it is telling why he wouldn't chose an EV.
They ask people like me who had a Volt 2016 and a 2023 Tesla MYLR in a survey. Not everyone has issues with ICE, Hybrid. or EV. My best vehicle is a RAV4 hybrid.
You could literally be lying about everything you said. EV fanboys will absolutely lie to push their narrative. I had a 2023 Model S that broke down on the side of the road at midnight after only 5k miles. I can prove that with pics and videos. Sold the car when I learned it’s common on the owner forums.
Is your suggestion that since CR did not ask you or other satisfied owners you know about EVs that CR did not actually conduct rigorous research? Are national polls or surveys flawed because neither you nor anyone you know participated?
2021 Tesla model Y owner and loving the zero maintenance and reliability. Makes the old reliable Toyota look like a piece of shit. Oh wait, come to think of it I did have to do some maintenance. The car told me the washer fluid was low, had to top it off. 😁 And I replaced the cabin air filter. 😂
We’ve been driving Honda’s for 45 years. Great cars. We’ve had our Bolt EUV for one year. It’s the nicest car I’ve ever owned; Silky smooth, quiet, super quick and completely reliable. All this and no gas and no maintenance. It’s an amazing car and now after 45 years or more of Honda’s Toyota’s and a few other brands I got my first Chevy it an EV and we love it! You use a generic term, Reliability, which then gets repeated giving a negative impression which I think is a very unreliable impression especially when you lump in little inconveniences like a transient Bluetooth connection. The first thing my friend said when I got the Bolt was, oh I read they were unreliable… so your negative one word meme opinion gets out there and gets repeated and yes, EV naysayers thrive on that stuff. As does the fossil fuel industry. I know GM had a few battery fires in the first release and they had a massive recall to remedy that. We talked about that and factored that into our decision. No-one wants to risk a fire But, as I said, GM quickly addressed that. I think battery technology as all modern technologies will continue to improve so I am leasing and looking forward to my next EV but at 75 I don’t know how many new cars are in my future but I am so glad I lived to see this day when EV’s are on the road and that hours in smog filled traffic jams may be on the way out. Around town, with all my charging at home, this car is perfect. Range anxiety for longer trips will easily be eliminated as the charging infrastructure increases.
@@frederickfaller899 Own a Bolt, not knocking Tesla but I prefer the layout of my Bolt. Most of the functions are controlled by buttons and knobs. Now I understand Tesla has gotten rid of the turning signal lever and replaced it with buttons. I guess we should be lucky they didn't put the turn signals on the touch screen.
I was a Honda guy for many cars. I was a never domestic car buyer again. Because of reliability. But I bought a 2017 Bolt used with 54000 miles and it now has 145000+ miles.... and I've done virtually nothing to the car. I would never get a gas car again. Especially after 2 40,000 mile years of no gasoline.
Been following CU auto reports for over 60 years. In the past CU relied on surveys mailed out to members for their collective information. Same procedure for appliances such as refrigerators , tvs, washing machines etc. I am member and not received a survey in 3 years, about the length of time that I have owned my 2020 Bolt. My observation with CU is that they list problems by frequency, not the cost of repair to the owner. This is common especially with cars.According to CU, the Bolt has a poor repair record, for example. Why? According to the Chevy Bolt Forum very few owners have had problems with their Bolts. The two issues the seat belt tensioners were recalled, and then there was the traction battery issue whereby 12 cars world wide have, what was probably, spontaneous fires. The cars in question had their batteries replaced in one day and the battery warranty started over from that day. NO COST to the owner. CU needs to be specific on issues that drag a "reliability" reputation down, and that is on any product. Until CU does that, its opinion will be taken with , as they say, with a grain of salt. Example the 1989 Dodge Dynasty with the Ultra-Drive transmission. Avg issues with the tranny, but after 4 years CU dropped the rating to Worse than Avg. A 25cent C-Clip would break and require a total R&R of the tranny. From that survey I gathered that Dodge had a minor issue. Some cars may have issue with a door handle breakage: they would receive a worse than average as well. Which repair would you rather spring for? Case in point.
I realized many years ago after CU’s Suzuki Samurai debacle that CU’s reliability data was done “on the cheap” and there is very little evidence that it mirrors reality
Perfect critique of these armchair analysts. The assessments are unqualified. I drive a 2015 Volvo wagon which the ratings would say is low reliability. 8 years later the only unscheduled maintenance and recall was a battery replacement and recall on a door handle which actually was working just fine. I would put that record up against any Toyota over 8 years.
They have been doing their survey's, via email, for sometime now, Ron. If I was to hazard a guess, I would say once or twice a year. You may want to make sure they have your email address.
I've been still receiving my surveys but exclusively by email or when I visit their site. So, I agree on the dropped physical surveys over the passed several years. There are cars like my Nissan Rogue that when I bought it was highly rated but when I check it now in highsight it is not. Stuff like that is perplexing because as much as I dislike my Rogue, it has been reliable. My wife's first model year Subaru was rated poorly AFTER we bought it but was rated well at the time we bought it. So far the Subaru has held up well (knock on wood). I've also seen appliances rated reliable have primarily negative user reviews on their own CR site as well as retailer sites.
Things Toyota hybrids and PHEVs REMOVE from a gas-powered car: Timing belt, accessory belt, alternator, starter, rear differential (AWD), torque converter, drive shaft (AWD). The electric drive and regen motors are not added to a Toyota hybrid, they replace other components that have historically required maintenance and were very troublesome. There is a strong case to be made that in the most reliable designs, hybrids and PHEVs actually don't have more potential trouble spots, but fewer.
I'm curious how Toyota's new HybridMAX powertrain will be. HSD is extremely reliable, more reliable than their conventional vehicles but HybridMAX has a conventional automatic transmission paired to an electric motor+engine like some problematic systems from other manufacturers.
FYI- Mitsubishi has been making PHEVs longer than Toyota. Outlander PHEV is highly rated vehicle but it doesn't come close to Toyota's gas mileage. Huge difference in torque.
My 2018 Tesla Model 3 has been so reliable I doubt I will ever buy another gas car. I can drive it 100 miles for $1.40. 150,000 miles and still going. I did have to replace the 12 volt battery after 5 years but they did it for free still under warranty.
So most of these reliability issues are not related to the EV powertrain itself (batteries+motors), it's more all the "electrified" gizmos in the car... that you also find on ICE cars.
This is what a BMW technician told me about his high voltage training... the battery is not the issue at all, modern cars have 30+ computers all over:)
You are inferring that you'll have the same potential problems with an ICE vehicle, but that's not what the CR crew said. There are lots of components controlling battery packs and motors, including the heating and cooling systems. Battery packs, alone, if damaged, can cost a *huge* amount of money to replace (more than what an even relatively-new car is worth). It will likely be years before EVs are as reliable, generally, as better ICE vehicles. Tesla seems to make good electric powertrains, but have lots of other issues, including getting needed service.
Except that is not true, since then the ICE cars would also have bad reliability, I think it is more things that are required to keep the battery functioning well that break down often.
We are new to having an EV. We picked up our Model Y performance in May of last year. We looked at the alignment of the parts and the paint. We went through all the controls and drove away from the service center with no issues. The purchasing process was so much easier, you could say that it was great to have none of the normal dealership problems from buying from a manufacturer that uses dealerships. This is a major advantage for Tesla. The underhandedness and willingness to charge as much as they think they can get from any buyer is a major reason to buy from Tesla and not from a dealership. Unless you really want to buy the 300 dollar “paint sealer”. LOL. So here is all the problems we have had from our model Y so far:
I had a 2001 Corolla which I give away about 2 weeks ago. after getting my new 2024 Rav4 Hybrid LE. The Corolla was faithfully reliable transportation, at over 168000 miles. I decided to get rid of it due to the location of an oil leak which I consider to expensive to fix for such an old car. I never regret owning it. The RAV4 Hybrid, I am loving the fuel economy and the thing I training me to drive efficiently. I am no hypermiler, but on one day of the second week of driving it I decided to try to see what's the best I can get and I manager an averaged of 52.1 mpg coming from work. Today Nov 30th I avaged 49.0 MPG. I can drive to work and back home and do not go to the gas station for a month. I got it the 3rd of November and fuel up for the first time on 26th November and for two days last week I did more driving then I normally do, so I already knew from looking at the progress my fuel gage each week that I can drive for a month without pulling into a gas station. The two things that are priority in a vehicle ownership for me are reliability and fuel efficiency of a vehicle.
The fuel rating WAS such an important value because you saw that each time you filled the tank. (While I have not searched for it yet), the thing left out of ALL the videos I have seen is the cost of the electricity!! While KWH cost will vary across the country, HOW MUCH does it cost to 'fill the battery"? How much do you pay for that? Not just the electric bill, but you have to include the cost of the charger!
@@sharonscott9250u can plug it into a normal charger at home and charge it over night And I’ve seen reports that electricity costs about 1/3 of gas, comparing price per mile driven. If you add on all the level 2 and level 3 conversations for faster charging, yeah it will get pricier
I had a Volt plug in hybrid and managed to drive 6 months on the dealer gas before having to fill up......would have gone longer but had to make several emergency trips over 100 km that required gas consumption.
I never understood people talking about fuel economy while driving a SUV behemoth of vehicle. It´s like talking of quiet driving in a tank. 52MPG lol I got that with my ICE. You just drive that house of a car to work ? What a huge waste.
Average Tesla owners do much more harm to environment than average people. They tend to be wealthier, and have larger homes, take more vacations (flying more), generally, they have much more carbon footprint, and emission even if they drive a Tesla.
I’ve had a Tesla model 3 for 5 years, & ZERO issues. I haven’t even changed my brake pads yet. The decreased cost of maintenance alone has been worth it. Would love to dive into their data here a little more.
I wonder if we looked at the EV and perhaps verified how many major issues cars faced. How many EV's are disabled and underivable. How do we account for recalls where there was a manufacturing defect. If I buy a Chevrolet Bolt and have a pre-tensioner recall does that count as unreliable to your survey. I wish you gave more info on what the "reliability" measurement works. I own a Gas Sorento and a Chevy Bolt and I have had recalls on both the 2022 Kia and 2019 Bolt. None have caused me to find my car reliability impacted as the companies did the service efficiently and without cost to me. So if my Infotainment system has a glitch today and you ask me about my thoughts in a few months time and I mention that does that count as unreliable. I don't find your video is backed by scientific data which would let me understand your premise.
Great episode. I want to clarify something without getting too nit-picky. (I won't go into the use of the word "less" vs. "fewer".) In the answers to the last question about the Tesla Model 3, the viewer as well as the hosts mentioned "rebates". There may be state government or other private rebates for EVs. But the federal government program if I remember correctly involves EV tax credits and not rebates. The big difference is that you must have enough tax liability (i.e. earn enough) to get the full rebate. E.g. if your yearly tax bill is not >=$7,500, then you would not get the full EV tax rebate possible but only as much as your tax liability for that year. Also the tax credits vary depending on whether the EV and the batteries in it were domestically-made, and whether the car is new or used.
I believe starting next year, the 'credit' is taken off the sticker price up front. No need to wait for next tax season, and you get it regardless of your tax situation. However, next year, some of the Tesla's lose the full $7500 (it's halved)... see their site for details, and keep watching as it could change any time.
First year, 2012, Sonic LS with 1.8 normally aspirated, 5M. Arizona burned off the clearcoat, but it's never had a recall or TSB, never an oil leak, AC, alternator, water pump and thermostat, suspension and brakes work well and have never been touched. Electrical, I've changed the MAF sensor, battery and one low beam bulb. All coolant hoses and the serpentine are just new. Over 12 years and 96k, it's been 100% reliable.
I'm on my fifth EV. My first, a BMW i3, was great. It's now with my mother-in-law, and still running perfectly after eight years. Then a 2017 Tesla Model X... it blew me away. Loved it. The issues with it were suspension related... squeaky control arms needed to be replaced three times. Then a 2022 Model Y. Good car. Bare bones. Not as fun as the X. Replaced the 2017 Model X with a 2022 Model X. It's been flawless so far. Today we have a Rivian R1S and the Model X. Total number of times I've had to take any of my EV's in for service in the past five years... 6 times. Total number of times in five years I've had to take the Mercedes and Range Rover in for service... over 50. There is no comparison. EV's perform like supercars and require less maintenance.
Our family has had two BEVs (both Chinese built) for two years. Neither has had any fault nor warranty issues, fit and finish on both is excellent. Both are very nice to drive and we have no charging problems on trips. Neither has had to be serviced in that time other than free warranty checks. Maintenance costs have been $0. Our EVs are charged mainly by solar panels. Net fuel cost over two years for two vehicles (about 50,000 miles) has been $125. Motoring hasnt been this cheap since the 1950s.
Yeah you got a garage to park that EV and an L2 to charge it with solar. Not many people has that options. But how many cars on the roads. You are just enjoying a luxe life. Forcing people going with EV is not easy for everyone.
25:44 also, don't rely on tax incentives. They have so many conditions it's too easy to not qualify. Based on the fact that they have 4 cars, I'm betting the income restriction would kick in.
Yeah, the video mentions "it's around town" as though longer trips are an issue. They are not. I've had my Tesla for 5 years, and have taken it across country, both E/W (VA to CA) and N/S (FL to ME), with no charging issues. I do have to allow maybe 10 or 15% longer compared to traveling with an ICE car, but there are SO many advantages (such as letting the car do the interstate driving for me w/FSD) that an extra hour for an all-day trip is well worth it.
The CR panel missed one category from the 2nd question-cost of ownership. This is where the Model3 is far exceeding the Corolla. First, compare the weekly cost of gas to electric over a year. Secondly there are so many fewer systems to breakdown. Over the past month my Model3 cost $28 in electricity compared to the $140 it would have cost me in gas.
I have had 3 Nissan Leafs 😂last one being 2019, never had any problems other than the 2019 model wearing out it’s tires in 30K miles. Also have a 2017 Tesla S for trips and it has not had any reliability problems.
I have smoked for 90 years, never had cancer...thats what you sound like ....Not comprehending what the difference is between a statistic and personal experience is next level stupid.
I know a few friends that have either model S or model 3 that have Hundreds of thousand of miles w/ their original batteries and all of them said not going back to an engine car😅 average ICE car is a money pit once they reach 150k miles+ with all the moving parts in the hood
So CR backs up a statement that EVs are unreliable with evidence that EVs will cost more to repair in an accident? Where is the by manufacturer list of problem areas? I saw nothing in here listing specific problem areas with specific manufacturers. I subscribe to CR and this is disappointing to see here and in print in the magazine. Kind of trust Good Housekeeping ratings more than CR now
2023 Tesla Model 3 - perfect from delivery to 12,000 miles later. 4 year warranty gives me amazing piece of mind. Another game changer with Tesla is the ability to remediate / improve issues with the power of software updates - just like your iPhone!
@@raymondweaver3078 Correct. The stats need adjusting for vehicle age. I haven't seen official stats where older models have been excluded or separately categorized to allow for an apple to apples comparison. However Hybrids do tend to be newer but have higher fire rates which is interesting.
Why doesn’t CR display the amount of people that responded to each vehicle model in their survey? Vehicles like a Ford Escape will have more credible ratings than vehicles that sell in low volume like a Toyota Crown.
Reliability is awful due to excess complexity in electronics and safety systems. Even makes such as Toyota have had failures with BZ4X and other recent offerings. What is scary is the deluge of infotainment systems that have gotten all too common place - this does not bode well for the future, like ten years from now when capacitors and back-lights fail on unsupported older models.
All these infotainments are also dangerous because they're creating distracted drivers. Take it from me, someone who drives an emergency vehicle for a living, people are so distracted playing with all this crap in their cars that they don't see lights, hear sirens or airhorns till you're basically on top of them!
@@IamGroot786 As someone who drives an emergency vehicle for a living, I would assume you know that one cannot use all these dangerous infotainments while driving, the car will just not allow it. And GPS are easier to read with a large screen, and it is good for safety. Maybe the problem is more about smartphone, don't you think ?
We have a lot of peripheral, unnecessary-to-basic-transportation cr*p in today's cars. Back-lighted displays are old tech that is being displaced by more reliable active displays whose pixels are LEDs and whose capacitors are within ICs. The fad of large screens for operating cars will pass, most of the virtual and manual buttons will vanish, and their functions will be performed "intelligently" or with microphones and cameras.
@@didierpuzenat7280 I think that if you have to look at a nav screen while driving, you have 4 reasons : 1. You are hearing impaired 2) You don't trust the app. 3) You don't know how to use it. 4) You need to make a change in your route. The last reason is only valid if you are lost, in which case you are distracted. (Most apps can reroute automatically if you get off the recommended route). I only need to look at a nav screen when confirming my destination or choosing an alternative route - on my phone - before I start to drive.
We’ve had a ‘21 BMW i3…the engineers were given a bunch of money and were told to build a concept car…to sell more than a decade before. It has been flawless for 2.5 years of a 3 year lease…flawless.
I have driven over 600,000 miles in a Nissan Leaf, Kia Eniro and Tesla Model Y since 2013. I have had no issues or mechanical breakdowns but I have had three tire punctures. My costs have been routine servicing, screen wash and tires. Off peak over night charging, solar panels and a home battery bring my charging costs down to $130 per 10,000 miles. EV’s are the most reliable cars I have ever owned and driven in 34 years of driving.
“Fewer, fewer, fewer” problems…not “less problems”….FWIW, I’ve owned 3 EVs and 2 PHEVs…my two Teslas (3 and Y) never had any EV issues…they had build quality issues and some computer glitches (same for non EV vehicles)….a Toyota RAV4 Prime that was excellent…no issues…a Kia Niro PHEV that had zero issues, and currently drive a Kia Niro EV and it’s been bullet proof…have had it 2 years and it’s never even been to the dealer since…
First time I have heard this, I know Ford fanatics that think CR totally pisses on them. And I remember reading an article that said Alan Mullaly , that last really good Ford CEO that said he forced the arrogant management team at Ford to visit CR so they could really voice it out over the tables. Ford usability on their vehicles is always so-so, to below average. Ford seats = in house and pretty terrible. Ford could use a human factors team that actually knows something and does it. Something like what Mazda does... Mazda actually cares about the human factors.
so if you have an ICE car then you get a service every 6 months and the dealer fixes all the warranty items and issues that have risen, these are not taken into account as failures. If you own a Tesla and only have a service as it requires it, every couple of years, other than that it us just software updates. though if you call an over the air update a recall, the EV is worse. I work with 3 guys who have 2012 Tesla Model S , their services are between 6 and 8 over these years, no other failures (Except when a laptop left on the roof was shattered by the Gull Wing door and the door failed as well)
23:26 Not jugging, but as a European I am surprised that a family can have 3 cars and needs one more. We are a couple (both working) with 3 children (all studying), 2 of them with driving licences, and we only have one car, a Tesla model 3 LR. We can afford to have more cars, we even have two garages and one parking, but it would be useless since we all use public transportation or bicycle or we just walk on a daily basis. And I do not believe to be an exception, at least in a city.
4 cars is a bit much, even as an American. But please understand that America doesn’t have Europe’s public transit infrastructure (outside of New York). Therefore, a 2-car family is a reasonable standard in the US.
What IS average reliability? What does an average car even cost in a year outside of warranty, how likely is it to strand you or fail to start? Because telling me Car B is twice as likely to have problems as an average car doesn't necessarily help me decide whether or not I want it. If 1 in 100 average cars strand the owner in a year and 2 in 100 of Car B strand the owner that's not really a huge factor in my decision-making.
I think it is a fallacy making ICE, hybrid and EV categories by throwing all makers to the same bag. What makes a reliability difference is the design of it. Hybrids look that much better only because Toyota has an amazing design which actually has less parts than ICE car. No starter and no transmission. I think a better comparison to compare technologies would be to limit it to a single maker. Otherwise the amounts of sold Toyota hybrids totally pollute your statistics.
Long time member of CR! Great to see you here on TH-cam! I drive a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD SEL and my wife just gave up her 2017 Toyota Prius Prime for a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 6 SEL RWD. Being an electrical engineer, I am very impressed with the e-GMP platform from Hyundai and we are both very happy with the cars (had zero issues so far) and happy to be a totally EV household. I think EVs are only going to get better and better from this point forward and I am excited to see what the future holds! Will keep you posted with our ongoing satisfaction thru the CR surveys! Cheers!!
When you compare Tesla with other brands such as Toyota you have to look at the convenience of finding a local dealer to perform repairs. For example, here in the Portland metro area there are 3 Tesla service centers and 10 full service Toyota dealers. And there are a huge number of independent repair shops will service a Toyota but won't touch a Tesla. Portland area would be considered a medium sized metro area with about 1.8 million people across 3 counties.
I am driving a Tesla for the last 4 years and I have been just once to a Tesla service center, to buy and install winter tires. So maybe we do not need as many repair shops with EVs vs petrol cars (hybrids included).
Not sure reliability of an ICE car with very high emissions can be related to sustainability, or we must define for what it is supposed to be sustainable. On the other end, a reliable efficient EV with a LFP battery that would drive one million kilometres would be the graal of sustainability.
@@howebrad4601 And so drilling/fracking oil, shipping it around the world in supertankers, refining it, then trucking it to thousands of gas stations every day where millions of cars have to drive to in order to fill up and burn it into the atmosphere is somehow better? lol
Nonsense! I have driven the EV problem-free for several years, and have NEVER had any problems with reliability. On the other hand, I had regular problems with my ICE cars, and in addition much larger maintenance costs for oil changes, timing belts, exhaust pipes, etc. which an EV does NOT have. In addition, the fuel (electricity) is much cheaper than petrol/diesel if you as an EV driver think about it and act smart.
Tell you how they can get that F150 to have better mileage. Reduce the unnecessary bulk. Like most Americans, this vehicle model needs to lose weight. But instead, it has been getting more and more obese and over sized.
I find this so hard to believe. I think of reliability as things that make the car in operable. I’ve been driving EVS for over 12 years and have had very few issues. Fit and finish sometimes but that’s it.
Every time they have to fill up other than home and get an oil change should be a ding against ICE cars. Its nonsense that nobody should accept as a norm.
I find your rating of the 2023 Model Y a bit curious. You give it a ^^ rating (your best score) in 5 out of six of your reliability categories and give it a VV rating (your worst rating) in one of your 6 reliability categories: build quality. I took delivery of my 2023 Y in January: it was built in Fremont California and has no issues with build quality. There have been some recalls and so far as I am aware I have not been effected by any. I was aware of a very very very few with a potentially loose steering wheel and I know I was not one of them. I checked the recall database on some Washington government website against my VIN. I have received zero recall letters. I'll double check the rest and get back to you if I find a problem. It is excellent you list them all online. Thanks. Further: there are software reliability issues. The sentry camera enabled monitoring software has a setting I have set to turn it off at home. I park in a garage inside my house, the car shows my location exactly corrrectly as my home address yet the sentry monitoring software often (not always) turns on when I get out of the car inside my own garage and that has not been corrected by service though they tried. Another problem is that the proximity monitoring system that is supposed to help me park safely tells me to STOP every time I back out of my garage. It is crude. If I obeyed it, I'd never leave home. When I bought the car I paid for parking features still not in the least delivered.
Of course, the beauty of a Tesla is, over-the-air software updates. So over time, these things tend to improve or get fixed. And new features keep coming. Yes, there are many small glitches, just like there are on my iPhone. But it's easy to work with them, and it rarely causes me any grief. The basic functionality is so advanced in comparison to anything I've owned before (Hondas, Hyundai, etc) and it's such a smooth, quiet, and powerful ride, I'd never consider anything else. And that's not even mentioning the FSD -- which is absolutely revolutionary.
I am stuck on “100 years in the business” . I remember the old hands at auto manufacturing were crushed in the 1970’s when the Japanese entered the market. According to your view they should have brushed the Japanese aside. Where is American Motors?
Nine years of EV ownershi[p and have had only one issue (battery heater). Better than my pick up. I think you need to look at longer view than three or four years.
CR digging back to the early 2000’s, while the technology has evolved far past those early models. We have been EV owners for over a decade, starting with a Tesla S and now a Tesla 3 and Rivian R1S that we purchased exactly a year ago… so far, zero issues, other than road debris damaging our battery pack and having to replace it on the 3.
I'm on my 2nd Bolt EUV in 2 years and only because my first one was in a wreck and was paid off by person who caused the wreck. anyway, I'm so happy with EV that i may never go back to ICE cars. I may even upgrade to the Chevy Equinox EV when it's released. I do use my Bolt EUV as I'm part time where i would easily put 100k miles in less then 2 years. These cars are so reliable that i wouldn't hesitate to drive on long trips. I'm so used to EV range that range anxiety is never an issue for me. I even had issues with my Honda Prior to owning EV where CR-V had all kinds of Electrical problems and dealer wasn't able to replicate the issues so they wouldn't replace parts until they could replicate the issue. So there goes ICE car reliability.
I bought a new Prius in 2011. 100,000 miles works good lasts a long time. That said I am retired and cannot afford a car payment. I drive a 2000 Montero sport and glad I have mechanic skills.
Article, ‘Not surprising’: Recent EV models run into 79% more problems than gas cars, Consumer Reports survey shows. But here's why analysts say they're just experiencing temporary 'growing pains'. Replacing a fifty thousand dollar battery is not a growing pain that is a headache.
Talking about sustainability and durability, A Toyota ICE vehicle will last 30 years minimum. We have a 17 year old camry, it will go forever.Tesla are obviously built to last 10 years or the life of he HV battery. It is just not economically viable to replace a HV battery on a 10 or 12 year old Tesla. So it’s worth parts only value. A 10 year old corolla will still be worth good money.
How easy is it to find a Prius Prime on a dealer's lot? According to Edmunds, the closest one to Albuquerque is 321 miles away. It's black, which I don't like in the desert summer.
Hybrid is the way to go and Toyota is a generation ahead of all others. My 40 MPG AWD 2022 RAV4 hybrid has no clutches, no alternator, no starter, and no driveshaft to power the rear wheels. It is a marvel of technology! I expect it to last 10+ years, holding an above-average resale value, just as has my 2012 Camry Hybrid I still own.
You cannot lump all EVs into this discussion; there is Tesla and then there is the rest. Their comments are on the mark about the rest of the EV competition but Tesla does not fit the narrative at all. Teslas don’t break down. In the rare case parts are needed there is still a delay, however the repair rate is tiny compared to any other cars, ICE, hybrid or EV. Because Tesla is the largest volume supplier of EVs by far with around 4 million on the road this narrative is way off.
I bought a 2021 X7 - first yeat t t model. Zero issues after 2 years. one of the most reliable cars ever i had. there are exceptions to the rule. Don't buy first year model...
Similar thoughts as MrBrucetho below. I drive an FRS for ten years now. 74,000 miles on it. It takes gasoline, wiper refills, tires (every 48k miles), oil and filter every 7500 miles zero other issues so far.Zero !
I would rather have problems with my windows than problems with my battery or motors. Modern ICE cars are very reliable, but EV's will destroy them on long term maintenance. Dealership Service departments will ceast to exist as they do..
We’ve had our 2022 Tesla model for 80,000 km now and ZERO COMPLAINTS! At 70k they replaced a tie rod end and wheel bearing under warranty. Otherwise it’s wiper blades and tires. You guys are a bunch of clowns.
From a sustainability point of view CR commentators missed that the fuel efficiency of an EV around town is phenomenal. EV's are at their best in terms of efficiency around town.
I stop listening when they say hybrid is more reliable. It maybe true for the first few years, but after that, they become junk on wheel. Look around, how many 10 year hybrid do you see still being driven. My brother bought a Toyota hybrid a few years back, got rid of it.
You do not have to be rich given lower costs and what you save in fuel and maintenance. Nor do you actually need to have a charger at home or garage. My father bought his ID4 once it came to Canada. Not anything crazy cost wise for an SUV. He does not have the money to burn to get anything fancy. Our winters are not kind to any vehicle up here. More than a fair share of times of people not being able to start their engines because of the cold but hey, is what it is. He lives in apartment building, no garage, no charger. Drives hundreds of Km at a time and manages just fine using public charging stations. As more EVs hit the road, more charging stations come online. Just like fuel pumps did when ICE was in its infancy. There is an adaptation period if you never had one before. Gets me when I borrow his car from time to time. A slightly different way of thinking when it comes to charging vs liquid fuel. Not anything ridiculous or anything to worry about though. He has said he would never go back ICE. That car is saving him lots of money and the only complaint he has is the lack of actual buttons (too much touch screen). Not every car will be perfect. You can buy an ICE car and never have an issue (like my Nissan Sentra) but any car can be a problem child. Overall though, he has little to nothing to break or worry about. I am always worried for when one of many moving parts in my ICE car will give out. After all, it is a 2012, nothing new. No breakdown ever happens at a good time either. I am sure many would agree with that. When he asked about what service was required, VW said he just brings it in for brake fluid replacement once every couple of years. People will have both good and bad experiences regardless of if they own an ICE or BEV. Nothing is infaliable. Technology does always get better though, that is always something to keep in mind. In the end, even I will get an EV for my next car. The economics just make sense alone. I live in a very remote area where winters are -40 or colder regularly and others already have EVs here. Had them for years without complaint nor desire to go back. One even lives down the street and has no personal charger. They really are not that bad of a car. You can always end up with a bad luck one sure, but same for ICE as I said before. Just food for thought.
26:00 the Toyotas compared to the Tesla have loud engines that vibrate and invade the cabin ambience, engines that have to be on all the time or most of the time just to use the car (heat, a/c, infotainment, power outlets, etc). And if it’s not on because it’s in ev mode, then it’s being logged around like dead weight doing nothing all that time which overtime isn’t good for the engine. I would definitely choose the Tesla over the toyota. And the fact that it’s high performance BY DEFAULT is just a BONUS. To actually complain about that bonus like Jake is stupidly doing requires more effort than regrowing hair (unless of course toyota is paying you to say that 😉).
Once we had horses and transitioned to gas powered vehicles. We also had electric vehicles back then, but they didn’t become the status quo. We also had steam powered cars, but although the technology was sound, we found the technology was not optimal for the application. The optimal technology is a liquid fuel that can be transported in the vehicle in small quantities. If we wish to reduce emissions we need to alter the liquid fuel. Why not switch to an alcohol fuel, the technology is decades old. We can use the current distribution systems, plus we can use various crops Ike grasses to produce the alcohol.
I drove my Model Y over a nail and got a flat in the middle of nowhere. The tire went flat and needed to be taken for repair CARRIED ON THE BACK OF A TRUCK - but Tesla arranged it quickly and smoothly despite me being in a very remote area with no charge for being transported over 30 miles for tire repair. All I had to pay was about $20 for tire repair.
More data points from Forbes: “Among the early purchasers of electrified vehicles, 82% of Power [ JD Power ] respondents say they “definitely will” consider purchasing another in the future, according to the report. The study surveyed nearly 10,000 owners of both battery-electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles.”
My 03/2023 mod3rwd is a defective car. 10k miles, replaced front passenger seat whole, onboard charger, and all kind of wind noise, road noise. radio is joke, it stop working anytime I believe I open a service request. Someone was doing remote repair the software. The front passenger seat got 4_6times attempts to repair the SRS codes even I got a new whole seat. It is garbage. F.Tesla car.
Why should I pay 30% more for the same car with fewer parts, less reliable, lower quality, and giving me range anxi? They should be at least 20% cheaper than a similar gas model to attract more people.
P.S. In Canada a car that starts at -30 is what is the most important factor in "reliability". N.B. the EVs start in EVERY weather without a plug in block heater! A good example of 'data' collection is we have all heard about the VERY FEW fires in EVs BUT NOT about the hundreds of ICE cars that have had fires... and yes an electric fire is more difficult than a fire in an ICE car.
Concept of a 4th car is crazy to me. Why not also a 2nd helicopter and 1st plane and boat ? Is reliability really that important for a person with 4 cars ? Take any of the other 3 if this one doesn´t work. You basically already have a car pool.
My Prius is 2012.... no problems and still driving it daily even under Toronto's winters. If Toyota could produce more Hybrids, they will blow Tesla out of the water big time. Ask them how many customers are waiting for a RAV, Highlander, Sienna, Corolla Hybrids.............
Toyota had twenty years to push hybrid vehicles and that technology is coming to an end, time to move on to EVs, I am done spending money on gasoline and all the crap issues that come internal combustion engines!
Tesla and Toyota Mild Hybrids do not compete. They are vastly different vehicles. Toyota does not have enough battery production capacity to produce lots of PHEVs. The two will never compete.
The new breakdowns on their website were erroring out this morning. This afternoon some are working now. The breakdowns on reliability giving an overall score on each car model are quite helpful. Thank you Consumer Reports. The second question is primary concern is reality. The answer between Tesla and Toyota is Toyota by a long way. It is far more reliable than Tesla. For that matter, so is any Mazda model. Teslas are average is not great in this day and age.
They are superior to any ICE vehicle due to the nature of EVs.. so the question is are they reliable in terms of EVs or not? Toyota's EV offerings besides being less efficient require an expensive maintenance schedule in order to keep in compliance with their warranty, Tesla does not.
Basic reliability for any tesla owner drivetrain… many models have only 17 moving parts. U want to tell me cars with 2000 parts for reliable?? Not to mention warranty is good on my tesla for 120k Mikes or 12 years… not even close
Disappointed with CR for this one. Conflating "sustainability" and "reliability", as CR is doing here, is a form of climate change denial. There are literally no gas/diesel internal combustion engine vehicles that are sustainable. Zero. Even the best in class Prius has a fuel consumption that is not sustainable. It's a matter of whether we get another hundred years out of the oil economy, or a few hundred. Neither are sustainable. Even though it's annoying as heck to repair a car, it's not fundamentally *unsustainable*, and whether or not Joe the Plumber gets this, CR auto experts should not be endorsing this conflation of concepts. Also, the comments by two of the panelists about Model 3 being ok for "around town" driving makes it seem like these people know next to nothing about EVs at all. This could be a legitimate take on some EVs that don't have access to Supercharging. But, the Model 3, which does (and charges faster than many older Model S/X) is absolutely an appropriate choice, whether you drive around town or long distance. Supercharging is easy, available on all major long distance routes in the US, and no more expensive in fuel costs than gas. Really a thoroughly bad take from these guys.
Why lump all EVs together? For example I'm on my third Nissan Leaf 2023 Plus model. It's my third because: since 2015 one 12 volt battery, two recalls one a bolt under the driver's seat and an added page to owner's manual, one new tire, one tube silicon (still have it) and new windshield wipers. I charge at home 100% and I use my Leaf for driving around town. They are fun to drive and tremendous acceleration up to about 40 mph. Say what you critics want but please leave Nissan Leafs in just their own light. As for.me, I love my Leaf!.PS for.long trips I drive my Cadillac.
The problem with Tesla is not reliability is cost to repair. My out of warranty Model S had an AC repair that was originally quoted to be $4.5K. I took it to a regular AC shop that repaired it for $1K but their lack of software update freaked out the 12V system. I ended having to replace the compressor once again for $2.5K. Right to repair is an issue and until independent repair shops are mainstream were going to deal with expensive repairs
Dealership s, and insurance companies and Hertz rental cars (they had over 40 thousand EVs) and they all agree, EVs break more often, are harder to repair and parts are harder to get, take longer time to repair, resale value is the pits, and range anxiety is a real thing.
I found your conversation about reliability and suitability to be interesting. But you failed to add another dimension to that discussion. I began driving and repairing cars around 1950. In 1950 a person would expect the following routine maintenance for their car. Oil change every 1000 miles with chassis lubrication of about 15 lube fittings. New spark plugs and ignition tune-up every 10,000 miles. New tires and shock absorbers every 20,000 miles. New exhaust system every 35,000 miles. Top end rebuild of engine with regrind of valves and tappet adjustment around 50,000 miles. At around 70,000 miles most people were trading in their vehicles because of excessive body rust out or need for an expensive rebuild of the engine or transmission. Today's cars are so much more reliable and sustainable with regards to their basic functionality, but they do suffer from too many components and unnecessary conveniences that compromise the overall reliability. Today I expect a car to be reliable transportation for at least 200,000 miles. Today I drive a 2018 Kia Niro hybrid with every convenience imaginable. I've got 55,000 miles on it without any maintenance except oil changes every 7,500 miles and one set of new tires. Recalling the hours I've spent over the years under the hood or under the car, I am absolutely delighted with the progress of automotive technology.
I remember those times also. Including changing out the motor in my VW Beatle. You jacked the car up, went under on a creeper unbolted the engine, dropped it onto your chest, and get someone to pull you out from under by the ankles. Installing the replacement engine was the reverse but you had to muscle up to lift it up onto the mounts.
That's well said. I remember as a teenager in the 1970s helping my Dad with car maintenance, which took up a lot of weekends. I've been driving a Kia e-Niro (Niro EV in the USA) for nearly 5 years now here in France. In 94,000 km it has been very reliable. There's a guy on the Niro Owners forum whose job is to escort long loads in the USA, he has a Niro hybrid and has covered over 250,000 miles in it, says its the most reliable car he's ever had.
Have you replaced the clutch actuator fluid??
Great history lesson!
Excellent recount of a time I don't want to revisit......points and condensers setting the timing with a timing light reading timing marks on the fan belt drive wheel.....
I drove a Volt between 2014 and 2018, I drove a Bolt EV between 2018 and 2023 and now I drive a Tesla M3 LR AWD. None of the cars above had a single problem that was related to reliability. It would be great to know how CR decides what's reliable or not, in the layman terms, not too fancy. Reliability to me is something that works every time as intended and when it's about cars, it means I can use it every single time I need it. Over almost 10 years, the 3 cars I had were the most reliable of the all I had before. And like myself are many others.
And I will give you a hint : I never was asked by any CR like company what I believe about my car or how I would rate it. How do you get your information for this kind of study and then put a verdict that the BEV are less reliable than the ICEV in 2023 ? If it were 2012, yeah, I would have said you are maybe right, given the Leaf and Ford Focus EV. But after 10+ years, the EVs of 2023 are above the 2023 ICEV in regards of reliability.
P.S. I re-watched the video and I know now what reliability means to you : a pothole that is hit or the cost of a fender bender. From 24:40 to the end your guy explains it best. All things that have nothing in comon with reliability but it is telling why he wouldn't chose an EV.
I own a 2022 Bolt and a 2020 KTM Freeride. People ask me about maintenance and I say "I don't know", there is none.
They ask people like me who had a Volt 2016 and a 2023 Tesla MYLR in a survey. Not everyone has issues with ICE, Hybrid. or EV. My best vehicle is a RAV4 hybrid.
You could literally be lying about everything you said. EV fanboys will absolutely lie to push their narrative. I had a 2023 Model S that broke down on the side of the road at midnight after only 5k miles. I can prove that with pics and videos. Sold the car when I learned it’s common on the owner forums.
Is your suggestion that since CR did not ask you or other satisfied owners you know about EVs that CR did not actually conduct rigorous research? Are national polls or surveys flawed because neither you nor anyone you know participated?
2021 Tesla model Y owner and loving the zero maintenance and reliability. Makes the old reliable Toyota look like a piece of shit.
Oh wait, come to think of it I did have to do some maintenance. The car told me the washer fluid was low, had to top it off. 😁 And I replaced the cabin air filter. 😂
We’ve been driving Honda’s for 45 years. Great cars. We’ve had our Bolt EUV for one year. It’s the nicest car I’ve ever owned; Silky smooth, quiet, super quick and completely reliable. All this and no gas and no maintenance. It’s an amazing car and now after 45 years or more of Honda’s Toyota’s and a few other brands I got my first Chevy it an EV and we love it! You use a generic term, Reliability, which then gets repeated giving a negative impression which I think is a very unreliable impression especially when you lump in little inconveniences like a transient Bluetooth connection. The first thing my friend said when I got the Bolt was, oh I read they were unreliable… so your negative one word meme opinion gets out there and gets repeated and yes, EV naysayers thrive on that stuff. As does the fossil fuel industry. I know GM had a few battery fires in the first release and they had a massive recall to remedy that. We talked about that and factored that into our decision. No-one wants to risk a fire But, as I said, GM quickly addressed that. I think battery technology as all modern technologies will continue to improve so I am leasing and looking forward to my next EV but at 75 I don’t know how many new cars are in my future but I am so glad I lived to see this day when EV’s are on the road and that hours in smog filled traffic jams may be on the way out. Around town, with all my charging at home, this car is perfect. Range anxiety for longer trips will easily be eliminated as the charging infrastructure increases.
"Completely reliable"...after ONE YEAR? AMAZING! And yes, that's sarcasm.
Too bad that car was discontinued for 2024.
Waite till you drive a Tesla if you Dare
@@frederickfaller899 Own a Bolt, not knocking Tesla but I prefer the layout of my Bolt. Most of the functions are controlled by buttons and knobs. Now I understand Tesla has gotten rid of the turning signal lever and replaced it with buttons. I guess we should be lucky they didn't put the turn signals on the touch screen.
I was a Honda guy for many cars. I was a never domestic car buyer again.
Because of reliability.
But I bought a 2017 Bolt used with 54000 miles and it now has 145000+ miles.... and I've done virtually nothing to the car.
I would never get a gas car again. Especially after 2 40,000 mile years of no gasoline.
Been following CU auto reports for over 60 years. In the past CU relied on surveys mailed out to members for their collective information. Same procedure for appliances such as refrigerators , tvs, washing machines etc. I am member and not received a survey in 3 years, about the length of time that I have owned my 2020 Bolt. My observation with CU is that they list problems by frequency, not the cost of repair to the owner. This is common especially with cars.According to CU, the Bolt has a poor repair record, for example. Why? According to the Chevy Bolt Forum very few owners have had problems with their Bolts. The two issues the seat belt tensioners were recalled, and then there was the traction battery issue whereby 12 cars world wide have, what was probably, spontaneous fires. The cars in question had their batteries replaced in one day and the battery warranty started over from that day. NO COST to the owner. CU needs to be specific on issues that drag a "reliability" reputation down, and that is on any product. Until CU does that, its opinion will be taken with , as they say, with a grain of salt. Example the 1989 Dodge Dynasty with the Ultra-Drive transmission. Avg issues with the tranny, but after 4 years CU dropped the rating to Worse than Avg. A 25cent C-Clip would break and require a total R&R of the tranny. From that survey I gathered that Dodge had a minor issue. Some cars may have issue with a door handle breakage: they would receive a worse than average as well. Which repair would you rather spring for? Case in point.
I realized many years ago after CU’s Suzuki Samurai debacle that CU’s reliability data was done “on the cheap” and there is very little evidence that it mirrors reality
Perfect critique of these armchair analysts. The assessments are unqualified. I drive a 2015 Volvo wagon which the ratings would say is low reliability. 8 years later the only unscheduled maintenance and recall was a battery replacement and recall on a door handle which actually was working just fine. I would put that record up against any Toyota over 8 years.
They have been doing their survey's, via email, for sometime now, Ron. If I was to hazard a guess, I would say once or twice a year. You may want to make sure they have your email address.
I've been still receiving my surveys but exclusively by email or when I visit their site. So, I agree on the dropped physical surveys over the passed several years. There are cars like my Nissan Rogue that when I bought it was highly rated but when I check it now in highsight it is not. Stuff like that is perplexing because as much as I dislike my Rogue, it has been reliable. My wife's first model year Subaru was rated poorly AFTER we bought it but was rated well at the time we bought it. So far the Subaru has held up well (knock on wood). I've also seen appliances rated reliable have primarily negative user reviews on their own CR site as well as retailer sites.
People are using anecdote evidence to refute aggregate evidence. This is obviously a flaw in rational thinking.
Things Toyota hybrids and PHEVs REMOVE from a gas-powered car: Timing belt, accessory belt, alternator, starter, rear differential (AWD), torque converter, drive shaft (AWD). The electric drive and regen motors are not added to a Toyota hybrid, they replace other components that have historically required maintenance and were very troublesome. There is a strong case to be made that in the most reliable designs, hybrids and PHEVs actually don't have more potential trouble spots, but fewer.
Was looking for this comment, trouble points in hybrids aren't the same as ice + battery + motor
Exactly! They use the Jidoka principle, which makes all these differences.
Transmission has 4 cogs: sun gear, 3 planets, and a ring gear. Constantly meshed. -- no shifting.
I'm curious how Toyota's new HybridMAX powertrain will be. HSD is extremely reliable, more reliable than their conventional vehicles but HybridMAX has a conventional automatic transmission paired to an electric motor+engine like some problematic systems from other manufacturers.
FYI- Mitsubishi has been making PHEVs longer than Toyota. Outlander PHEV is highly rated vehicle but it doesn't come close to Toyota's gas mileage. Huge difference in torque.
Fast-forward 10 months and we find out that the most reliable car being sold today is the Tesla model Y and the Tesla model three
Model Y is the most car sold in the world in 2023 and most likely will be the same in 2024. It's just nut.
My 2018 Tesla Model 3 has been so reliable I doubt I will ever buy another gas car. I can drive it 100 miles for $1.40. 150,000 miles and still going. I did have to replace the 12 volt battery after 5 years but they did it for free still under warranty.
So most of these reliability issues are not related to the EV powertrain itself (batteries+motors), it's more all the "electrified" gizmos in the car... that you also find on ICE cars.
This is what a BMW technician told me about his high voltage training... the battery is not the issue at all, modern cars have 30+ computers all over:)
You are inferring that you'll have the same potential problems with an ICE vehicle, but that's not what the CR crew said. There are lots of components controlling battery packs and motors, including the heating and cooling systems. Battery packs, alone, if damaged, can cost a *huge* amount of money to replace (more than what an even relatively-new car is worth). It will likely be years before EVs are as reliable, generally, as better ICE vehicles. Tesla seems to make good electric powertrains, but have lots of other issues, including getting needed service.
Except that is not true, since then the ICE cars would also have bad reliability, I think it is more things that are required to keep the battery functioning well that break down often.
What service does a Tesla require, Ken? @@kenhoward3512
EVs tend to shove more unreliable gizmos in. They won't make EVs without this extra nonsense because it allows them to monetize data.
We are new to having an EV. We picked up our Model Y performance in May of last year. We looked at the alignment of the parts and the paint. We went through all the controls and drove away from the service center with no issues. The purchasing process was so much easier, you could say that it was great to have none of the normal dealership problems from buying from a manufacturer that uses dealerships. This is a major advantage for Tesla. The underhandedness and willingness to charge as much as they think they can get from any buyer is a major reason to buy from Tesla and not from a dealership. Unless you really want to buy the 300 dollar “paint sealer”. LOL.
So here is all the problems we have had from our model Y so far:
How’s that $0 resale value? 💸💸💸💸💸
The major reason to not buy a Tesla is Elon Musk!
....so far....good luck.
I had a 2001 Corolla which I give away about 2 weeks ago. after getting my new 2024 Rav4 Hybrid LE. The Corolla was faithfully reliable transportation, at over 168000 miles. I decided to get rid of it due to the location of an oil leak which I consider to expensive to fix for such an old car. I never regret owning it.
The RAV4 Hybrid, I am loving the fuel economy and the thing I training me to drive efficiently. I am no hypermiler, but on one day of the second week of driving it I decided to try to see what's the best I can get and I manager an averaged of 52.1 mpg coming from work. Today Nov 30th I avaged 49.0 MPG. I can drive to work and back home and do not go to the gas station for a month. I got it the 3rd of November and fuel up for the first time on 26th November and for two days last week I did more driving then I normally do, so I already knew from looking at the progress my fuel gage each week that I can drive for a month without pulling into a gas station. The two things that are priority in a vehicle ownership for me are reliability and fuel efficiency of a vehicle.
The fuel rating WAS such an important value because you saw that each time you filled the tank. (While I have not searched for it yet), the thing left out of ALL the videos I have seen is the cost of the electricity!! While KWH cost will vary across the country, HOW MUCH does it cost to 'fill the battery"? How much do you pay for that? Not just the electric bill, but you have to include the cost of the charger!
@@sharonscott9250u can plug it into a normal charger at home and charge it over night
And I’ve seen reports that electricity costs about 1/3 of gas, comparing price per mile driven.
If you add on all the level 2 and level 3 conversations for faster charging, yeah it will get pricier
I had a Volt plug in hybrid and managed to drive 6 months on the dealer gas before having to fill up......would have gone longer but had to make several emergency trips over 100 km that required gas consumption.
I never understood people talking about fuel economy while driving a SUV behemoth of vehicle. It´s like talking of quiet driving in a tank. 52MPG lol I got that with my ICE.
You just drive that house of a car to work ? What a huge waste.
8:34 "They've had the Prius out for well over a decade at this point."
LOL!! Talk about an understatement. The Prius has been out for 27 years now.
Tesla has been out for over a decade.
Nothing says “I love sustainability” like having 4 cars
You noticed, too.
Virtue signaling
Lmfaoooo
Average Tesla owners do much more harm to environment than average people. They tend to be wealthier, and have larger homes, take more vacations (flying more), generally, they have much more carbon footprint, and emission even if they drive a Tesla.
You have no idea how many drivers they have at home or where they live…uninformed negative comment.
I’ve had a Tesla model 3 for 5 years, & ZERO issues. I haven’t even changed my brake pads yet. The decreased cost of maintenance alone has been worth it.
Would love to dive into their data here a little more.
How’s that resale value of $0. 💸💸💸💸💸
I wonder if we looked at the EV and perhaps verified how many major issues cars faced. How many EV's are disabled and underivable. How do we account for recalls where there was a manufacturing defect. If I buy a Chevrolet Bolt and have a pre-tensioner recall does that count as unreliable to your survey. I wish you gave more info on what the "reliability" measurement works. I own a Gas Sorento and a Chevy Bolt and I have had recalls on both the 2022 Kia and 2019 Bolt. None have caused me to find my car reliability impacted as the companies did the service efficiently and without cost to me. So if my Infotainment system has a glitch today and you ask me about my thoughts in a few months time and I mention that does that count as unreliable. I don't find your video is backed by scientific data which would let me understand your premise.
Great episode. I want to clarify something without getting too nit-picky. (I won't go into the use of the word "less" vs. "fewer".) In the answers to the last question about the Tesla Model 3, the viewer as well as the hosts mentioned "rebates". There may be state government or other private rebates for EVs. But the federal government program if I remember correctly involves EV tax credits and not rebates. The big difference is that you must have enough tax liability (i.e. earn enough) to get the full rebate. E.g. if your yearly tax bill is not >=$7,500, then you would not get the full EV tax rebate possible but only as much as your tax liability for that year. Also the tax credits vary depending on whether the EV and the batteries in it were domestically-made, and whether the car is new or used.
EV credits are now being applied directly to the MSRP, so your first point is moot now. Your second point that some EVs may not qualify is accurate.
I believe starting next year, the 'credit' is taken off the sticker price up front. No need to wait for next tax season, and you get it regardless of your tax situation. However, next year, some of the Tesla's lose the full $7500 (it's halved)... see their site for details, and keep watching as it could change any time.
First year, 2012, Sonic LS with 1.8 normally aspirated, 5M. Arizona burned off the clearcoat, but it's never had a recall or TSB, never an oil leak, AC, alternator, water pump and thermostat, suspension and brakes work well and have never been touched. Electrical, I've changed the MAF sensor, battery and one low beam bulb. All coolant hoses and the serpentine are just new. Over 12 years and 96k, it's been 100% reliable.
As a happy Chevy Bolt owner I have to ask, What reliability issues? I guess that first major service at 150,000 miles is a deal breaker.
Right On !!! I'm furious over this "report" which never even mentioned the Bolt. I wonder how much Toyota paid them.
Gee that’s a bit soon … isn’t it ?
Is that first major service a new 20K battery?
At 150k, who cares? You buy a new car and the battery gets recycled. @@msw7021
Bolt, best deal, produced since 2017, that's a +
I'm on my fifth EV. My first, a BMW i3, was great. It's now with my mother-in-law, and still running perfectly after eight years. Then a 2017 Tesla Model X... it blew me away. Loved it. The issues with it were suspension related... squeaky control arms needed to be replaced three times. Then a 2022 Model Y. Good car. Bare bones. Not as fun as the X. Replaced the 2017 Model X with a 2022 Model X. It's been flawless so far. Today we have a Rivian R1S and the Model X. Total number of times I've had to take any of my EV's in for service in the past five years... 6 times. Total number of times in five years I've had to take the Mercedes and Range Rover in for service... over 50.
There is no comparison. EV's perform like supercars and require less maintenance.
Comparing reliability against Mercedes and Range Rover will make almost anything look better.
Most of my friends with EVs say they are incredibly reliable, even while I drive them to pick up their EV from the shop.
Do they ever ask you for a loan to help cover the cost of that new battery pack? @@Feroce2023
Our family has had two BEVs (both Chinese built) for two years.
Neither has had any fault nor warranty issues, fit and finish on both is excellent. Both are very nice to drive and we have no charging problems on trips.
Neither has had to be serviced in that time other than free warranty checks. Maintenance costs have been $0.
Our EVs are charged mainly by solar panels. Net fuel cost over two years for two vehicles (about 50,000 miles) has been $125.
Motoring hasnt been this cheap since the 1950s.
Exactly our experience too. Our solar panels make this a no brainer deal. Our Polestar and M3 have been flawless.
Are there also rainbows and unicorns where you live
Yeah you got a garage to park that EV and an L2 to charge it with solar. Not many people has that options. But how many cars on the roads. You are just enjoying a luxe life. Forcing people going with EV is not easy for everyone.
@@tonymai1844don't dismiss it as a rich peoples thing, I got a Fiat 500e for $8k in 2018, 5 yr trouble free
How’s that $0 resale value? 💸💸💸💸
25:44 also, don't rely on tax incentives.
They have so many conditions it's too easy to not qualify. Based on the fact that they have 4 cars, I'm betting the income restriction would kick in.
A longer trip on Tesla is not a problem. Their super charger coverage is pretty good.
My nearest tesla charger is 100 miles south of me, west of me it's 400 miles away. Where I live there is NO ev infrastructure to speak of
Yeah, the video mentions "it's around town" as though longer trips are an issue. They are not. I've had my Tesla for 5 years, and have taken it across country, both E/W (VA to CA) and N/S (FL to ME), with no charging issues. I do have to allow maybe 10 or 15% longer compared to traveling with an ICE car, but there are SO many advantages (such as letting the car do the interstate driving for me w/FSD) that an extra hour for an all-day trip is well worth it.
@@howebrad4601you must live in the middle of Death Valley. 😢
@@andrerodriguez7603 And I bet his house doesn't have electricity either.
@@andrerodriguez7603 He must live on Mars. I just checked: even in the middle of Death Valley you're only about 50 miles away from a Supercharger.
The CR panel missed one category from the 2nd question-cost of ownership. This is where the Model3 is far exceeding the Corolla. First, compare the weekly cost of gas to electric over a year. Secondly there are so many fewer systems to breakdown. Over the past month my Model3 cost $28 in electricity compared to the $140 it would have cost me in gas.
I have had 3 Nissan Leafs 😂last one being 2019, never had any problems other than the 2019 model wearing out it’s tires in 30K miles.
Also have a 2017 Tesla S for trips and it has not had any reliability problems.
I have smoked for 90 years, never had cancer...thats what you sound like ....Not comprehending what the difference is between a statistic and personal experience is next level stupid.
I know a few friends that have either model S or model 3 that have Hundreds of thousand of miles w/ their original batteries and all of them said not going back to an engine car😅 average ICE car is a money pit once they reach 150k miles+ with all the moving parts in the hood
So CR backs up a statement that EVs are unreliable with evidence that EVs will cost more to repair in an accident? Where is the by manufacturer list of problem areas? I saw nothing in here listing specific problem areas with specific manufacturers. I subscribe to CR and this is disappointing to see here and in print in the magazine. Kind of trust Good Housekeeping ratings more than CR now
None of these folks should be having this discussion. They are so ignorant. Such a hit piece.
Model 3 over Corolla on any day! Thanks Jennifer!
Sarcasm?
As an european I must ask: in what circumstances do you need a forth car in the family? Especially since the declared need is driving around-town?!
To reduce seat wear
2023 Tesla Model 3 - perfect from delivery to 12,000 miles later. 4 year warranty gives me amazing piece of mind. Another game changer with Tesla is the ability to remediate / improve issues with the power of software updates - just like your iPhone!
Been driving the Nissan ENV200 for 5 years without any major issues.
I never got an email with the reliability survey this year. What month do you send those out?
NTSB 2022
Car fires per 100k vehicles
Hybrid 3474.5
Petrol 1529.9
Electric 25.1
Yet there are 100 times more gas cars on road and a lot of them are a lot older
But they burn more often.@@raymondweaver3078
@@raymondweaver3078 Correct. The stats need adjusting for vehicle age. I haven't seen official stats where older models have been excluded or separately categorized to allow for an apple to apples comparison.
However Hybrids do tend to be newer but have higher fire rates which is interesting.
🙄🙄🙄
Why doesn’t CR display the amount of people that responded to each vehicle model in their survey? Vehicles like a Ford Escape will have more credible ratings than vehicles that sell in low volume like a Toyota Crown.
Reliability is awful due to excess complexity in electronics and safety systems. Even makes such as Toyota have had failures with BZ4X and other recent offerings. What is scary is the deluge of infotainment systems that have gotten all too common place - this does not bode well for the future, like ten years from now when capacitors and back-lights fail on unsupported older models.
All these infotainments are also dangerous because they're creating distracted drivers. Take it from me, someone who drives an emergency vehicle for a living, people are so distracted playing with all this crap in their cars that they don't see lights, hear sirens or airhorns till you're basically on top of them!
Feels very hard to replace a failed infotainment system if the car manufacturer doesn't make them anymore!
@@IamGroot786 As someone who drives an emergency vehicle for a living, I would assume you know that one cannot use all these dangerous infotainments while driving, the car will just not allow it. And GPS are easier to read with a large screen, and it is good for safety. Maybe the problem is more about smartphone, don't you think ?
We have a lot of peripheral, unnecessary-to-basic-transportation cr*p in today's cars. Back-lighted displays are old tech that is being displaced by more reliable active displays whose pixels are LEDs and whose capacitors are within ICs. The fad of large screens for operating cars will pass, most of the virtual and manual buttons will vanish, and their functions will be performed "intelligently" or with microphones and cameras.
@@didierpuzenat7280 I think that if you have to look at a nav screen while driving, you have 4 reasons : 1. You are hearing impaired 2) You don't trust the app. 3) You don't know how to use it. 4) You need to make a change in your route. The last reason is only valid if you are lost, in which case you are distracted. (Most apps can reroute automatically if you get off the recommended route).
I only need to look at a nav screen when confirming my destination or choosing an alternative route - on my phone - before I start to drive.
Their data collection methods would never pass the smell test in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
It's a feature, not a bug.
Have you seen the detailed ratings on their website?
We’ve had a ‘21 BMW i3…the engineers were given a bunch of money and were told to build a concept car…to sell more than a decade before. It has been flawless for 2.5 years of a 3 year lease…flawless.
I have driven over 600,000 miles in a Nissan Leaf, Kia Eniro and Tesla Model Y since 2013. I have had no issues or mechanical breakdowns but I have had three tire punctures. My costs have been routine servicing, screen wash and tires. Off peak over night charging, solar panels and a home battery bring my charging costs down to $130 per 10,000 miles. EV’s are the most reliable cars I have ever owned and driven in 34 years of driving.
I have had my BEV a Nissan Leaf plus 27 months totally without fault.
I guess I am the luckies EV owner in the world, the only issue I have with mine Tesla is Tires the chew them. 60k on it
News to me. I have two EVs with no issues other than a flat 12 volt battery. Not the case with my petrol cars.
The new Tesla don't have the Body & paint problem, that is FUD from CR.
Tesla's QC is still embarrassing for what they are charging.
“Fewer, fewer, fewer” problems…not “less problems”….FWIW, I’ve owned 3 EVs and 2 PHEVs…my two Teslas (3 and Y) never had any EV issues…they had build quality issues and some computer glitches (same for non EV vehicles)….a Toyota RAV4 Prime that was excellent…no issues…a Kia Niro PHEV that had zero issues, and currently drive a Kia Niro EV and it’s been bullet proof…have had it 2 years and it’s never even been to the dealer since…
I have never had any issues with a car under 36000 miles or 3 years old
I don't completely trust cr anymore. The comments are an education 👍.
Some context, Tesla has 53% EV market share and VW has 0.3%
Model 3 has been a super city car
And great road trip car for me.
That's if you can find it in the parking lot. Ever 2nd car is either 3 or Y and all the same color
@@IYG-x7c Use the app to sound the horn or flash the lights to find it.
Toyota carries the non-plugin hybrid rankings, Tesla carries the EV rankings.
Keep in mind that two of CR’s major donors are the Ford and GM foundations. Strong incentives to talk bad about competitors.
I agree. I have very little faith in CR. They were giving Tesla negative marks for over the air updates...
It wasnt for OTA updates but for selling cars with incomplete software.
First time I have heard this, I know Ford fanatics that think CR totally pisses on them. And I remember reading an article that said Alan Mullaly , that last really good Ford CEO that said he forced the arrogant management team at Ford to visit CR so they could really voice it out over the tables.
Ford usability on their vehicles is always so-so, to below average. Ford seats = in house and pretty terrible. Ford could use a human factors team that actually knows something and does it.
Something like what Mazda does... Mazda actually cares about the human factors.
so if you have an ICE car then you get a service every 6 months and the dealer fixes all the warranty items and issues that have risen, these are not taken into account as failures.
If you own a Tesla and only have a service as it requires it, every couple of years, other than that it us just software updates.
though if you call an over the air update a recall, the EV is worse.
I work with 3 guys who have 2012 Tesla Model S , their services are between 6 and 8 over these years, no other failures (Except when a laptop left on the roof was shattered by the Gull Wing door and the door failed as well)
23:26 Not jugging, but as a European I am surprised that a family can have 3 cars and needs one more. We are a couple (both working) with 3 children (all studying), 2 of them with driving licences, and we only have one car, a Tesla model 3 LR. We can afford to have more cars, we even have two garages and one parking, but it would be useless since we all use public transportation or bicycle or we just walk on a daily basis. And I do not believe to be an exception, at least in a city.
4 cars is a bit much, even as an American. But please understand that America doesn’t have Europe’s public transit infrastructure (outside of New York). Therefore, a 2-car family is a reasonable standard in the US.
You should comment on the weakening demand for non-Tesla EVs in US. Buyers of BEVs want Teslas, not so much the BEVs from legacy automakers.
What IS average reliability? What does an average car even cost in a year outside of warranty, how likely is it to strand you or fail to start? Because telling me Car B is twice as likely to have problems as an average car doesn't necessarily help me decide whether or not I want it. If 1 in 100 average cars strand the owner in a year and 2 in 100 of Car B strand the owner that's not really a huge factor in my decision-making.
Average reliability is quite bad.
2:46 Excessive use of "less" when "fewer" is the correct word. And the woman does it, too.
I think it is a fallacy making ICE, hybrid and EV categories by throwing all makers to the same bag. What makes a reliability difference is the design of it. Hybrids look that much better only because Toyota has an amazing design which actually has less parts than ICE car. No starter and no transmission. I think a better comparison to compare technologies would be to limit it to a single maker. Otherwise the amounts of sold Toyota hybrids totally pollute your statistics.
In 20 years, I think we'll be surprised we once drove around with all those moving parts to get us around.
An EV battery has 10,000 individual cells. 🖕🖕🖕🖕💵🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Long time member of CR! Great to see you here on TH-cam! I drive a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD SEL and my wife just gave up her 2017 Toyota Prius Prime for a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 6 SEL RWD. Being an electrical engineer, I am very impressed with the e-GMP platform from Hyundai and we are both very happy with the cars (had zero issues so far) and happy to be a totally EV household. I think EVs are only going to get better and better from this point forward and I am excited to see what the future holds! Will keep you posted with our ongoing satisfaction thru the CR surveys! Cheers!!
Were either of your Hyundai BEVs recalled for the recent ICCU issue?
When you compare Tesla with other brands such as Toyota you have to look at the convenience of finding a local dealer to perform repairs. For example, here in the Portland metro area there are 3 Tesla service centers and 10 full service Toyota dealers. And there are a huge number of independent repair shops will service a Toyota but won't touch a Tesla. Portland area would be considered a medium sized metro area with about 1.8 million people across 3 counties.
This plays into insurance premiums and resale value.
But if you don’t need to service them as much…
I am driving a Tesla for the last 4 years and I have been just once to a Tesla service center, to buy and install winter tires. So maybe we do not need as many repair shops with EVs vs petrol cars (hybrids included).
Not sure reliability of an ICE car with very high emissions can be related to sustainability, or we must define for what it is supposed to be sustainable. On the other end, a reliable efficient EV with a LFP battery that would drive one million kilometres would be the graal of sustainability.
Are you factoring in the huge carbon deficit inherent in mining, processing, and transporting minerals needed to make a battery?
@@howebrad4601 "huge" carbon deficit??? It's a one time extraction, not ongoing for 20 years. !!
@@howebrad4601 And so drilling/fracking oil, shipping it around the world in supertankers, refining it, then trucking it to thousands of gas stations every day where millions of cars have to drive to in order to fill up and burn it into the atmosphere is somehow better? lol
Nonsense! I have driven the EV problem-free for several years, and have NEVER had any problems with reliability. On the other hand, I had regular problems with my ICE cars, and in addition much larger maintenance costs for oil changes, timing belts, exhaust pipes, etc. which an EV does NOT have. In addition, the fuel (electricity) is much cheaper than petrol/diesel if you as an EV driver think about it and act smart.
Tell you how they can get that F150 to have better mileage. Reduce the unnecessary bulk. Like most Americans, this vehicle model needs to lose weight. But instead, it has been getting more and more obese and over sized.
Been a CR SUBSCRIBER for 40 years and have NEVER had a survey.
I find this so hard to believe. I think of reliability as things that make the car in operable. I’ve been driving EVS for over 12 years and have had very few issues. Fit and finish sometimes but that’s it.
Every time they have to fill up other than home and get an oil change should be a ding against ICE cars. Its nonsense that nobody should accept as a norm.
Same with my four years of use.
How often do you buy a new car or lease? Would you feel comfortable buying a 10 year old EV knowing you might have to replace the battery pack for 20k
I find your rating of the 2023 Model Y a bit curious. You give it a ^^ rating (your best score) in 5 out of six of your reliability categories and give it a VV rating (your worst rating) in one of your 6 reliability categories: build quality. I took delivery of my 2023 Y in January: it was built in Fremont California and has no issues with build quality. There have been some recalls and so far as I am aware I have not been effected by any. I was aware of a very very very few with a potentially loose steering wheel and I know I was not one of them. I checked the recall database on some Washington government website against my VIN. I have received zero recall letters. I'll double check the rest and get back to you if I find a problem. It is excellent you list them all online. Thanks. Further: there are software reliability issues. The sentry camera enabled monitoring software has a setting I have set to turn it off at home. I park in a garage inside my house, the car shows my location exactly corrrectly as my home address yet the sentry monitoring software often (not always) turns on when I get out of the car inside my own garage and that has not been corrected by service though they tried. Another problem is that the proximity monitoring system that is supposed to help me park safely tells me to STOP every time I back out of my garage. It is crude. If I obeyed it, I'd never leave home. When I bought the car I paid for parking features still not in the least delivered.
Just go into the Nav screen and reset your Home address. I had the same problem. This happened after a software update.
'Washington government', meaning federal? Never heard/seen your way of wording, so im curious.
Of course, the beauty of a Tesla is, over-the-air software updates. So over time, these things tend to improve or get fixed. And new features keep coming. Yes, there are many small glitches, just like there are on my iPhone. But it's easy to work with them, and it rarely causes me any grief. The basic functionality is so advanced in comparison to anything I've owned before (Hondas, Hyundai, etc) and it's such a smooth, quiet, and powerful ride, I'd never consider anything else. And that's not even mentioning the FSD -- which is absolutely revolutionary.
@@wincoffin7985 Same here.
I am stuck on “100 years in the business” . I remember the old hands at auto manufacturing were crushed in the 1970’s when the Japanese entered the market. According to your view they should have brushed the Japanese aside. Where is American Motors?
Ever heard of Tesla ?
Nine years of EV ownershi[p and have had only one issue (battery heater). Better than my pick up. I think you need to look at longer view than three or four years.
CR digging back to the early 2000’s, while the technology has evolved far past those early models. We have been EV owners for over a decade, starting with a Tesla S and now a Tesla 3 and Rivian R1S that we purchased exactly a year ago… so far, zero issues, other than road debris damaging our battery pack and having to replace it on the 3.
I have not had any issues with either of my Teslas.
I'm on my 2nd Bolt EUV in 2 years and only because my first one was in a wreck and was paid off by person who caused the wreck. anyway, I'm so happy with EV that i may never go back to ICE cars. I may even upgrade to the Chevy Equinox EV when it's released. I do use my Bolt EUV as I'm part time where i would easily put 100k miles in less then 2 years. These cars are so reliable that i wouldn't hesitate to drive on long trips. I'm so used to EV range that range anxiety is never an issue for me.
I even had issues with my Honda Prior to owning EV where CR-V had all kinds of Electrical problems and dealer wasn't able to replicate the issues so they wouldn't replace parts until they could replicate the issue. So there goes ICE car reliability.
I bought a new Prius in 2011. 100,000 miles works good lasts a long time. That said I am retired and cannot afford a car payment. I drive a 2000 Montero sport and glad I have mechanic skills.
Article, ‘Not surprising’: Recent EV models run into 79% more problems than gas cars, Consumer Reports survey shows. But here's why analysts say they're just experiencing temporary 'growing pains'. Replacing a fifty thousand dollar battery is not a growing pain that is a headache.
Also a free new battery for owners
Talking about sustainability and durability, A Toyota ICE vehicle will last 30 years minimum. We have a 17 year old camry, it will go forever.Tesla are obviously built to last 10 years or the life of he HV battery. It is just not economically viable to replace a HV battery on a 10 or 12 year old Tesla. So it’s worth parts only value. A 10 year old corolla will still be worth good money.
How easy is it to find a Prius Prime on a dealer's lot? According to Edmunds, the closest one to Albuquerque is 321 miles away. It's black, which I don't like in the desert summer.
Hybrid is the way to go and Toyota is a generation ahead of all others. My 40 MPG AWD 2022 RAV4 hybrid has no clutches, no alternator, no starter, and no driveshaft to power the rear wheels. It is a marvel of technology! I expect it to last 10+ years, holding an above-average resale value, just as has my 2012 Camry Hybrid I still own.
Still they have all the maintenance plus they need gas & oil + dealer maintenance
CR must be paid by Toyota they are definitely buyest & in favor of gasoline & old school vehicles that require a lot of maintenance
@@frederickfaller899biased*
@@FRWD_FXLRST is their point true or false?
You cannot lump all EVs into this discussion; there is Tesla and then there is the rest. Their comments are on the mark about the rest of the EV competition but Tesla does not fit the narrative at all. Teslas don’t break down. In the rare case parts are needed there is still a delay, however the repair rate is tiny compared to any other cars, ICE, hybrid or EV.
Because Tesla is the largest volume supplier of EVs by far with around 4 million on the road this narrative is way off.
I bought a 2021 X7 - first yeat t t model. Zero issues after 2 years. one of the most reliable cars ever i had. there are exceptions to the rule. Don't buy first year model...
Similar thoughts as MrBrucetho below. I drive an FRS for ten years now. 74,000 miles on it. It takes gasoline, wiper refills, tires (every 48k miles), oil and filter every 7500 miles zero other issues so far.Zero !
I would rather have problems with my windows than problems with my battery or motors. Modern ICE cars are very reliable, but EV's will destroy them on long term maintenance. Dealership Service departments will ceast to exist as they do..
We’ve had our 2022 Tesla model for 80,000 km now and ZERO COMPLAINTS! At 70k they replaced a tie rod end and wheel bearing under warranty. Otherwise it’s wiper blades and tires. You guys are a bunch of clowns.
Uh oh, Consumer Reports got their new marching orders from Ford!
Hahahaha😂
From a sustainability point of view CR commentators missed that the fuel efficiency of an EV around town is phenomenal. EV's are at their best in terms of efficiency around town.
I stop listening when they say hybrid is more reliable. It maybe true for the first few years, but after that, they become junk on wheel. Look around, how many 10 year hybrid do you see still being driven. My brother bought a Toyota hybrid a few years back, got rid of it.
Seeems to me you could have saved about 27 minutes- just buy a Toyota (any model). Wouldn't be good for job security at CR though 😀
Yeah, EV is for Ritchie. House, garage to charge the EV. 7.5k tax credit. These is not an option for most low pay working families.
You do not have to be rich given lower costs and what you save in fuel and maintenance. Nor do you actually need to have a charger at home or garage. My father bought his ID4 once it came to Canada. Not anything crazy cost wise for an SUV. He does not have the money to burn to get anything fancy. Our winters are not kind to any vehicle up here. More than a fair share of times of people not being able to start their engines because of the cold but hey, is what it is.
He lives in apartment building, no garage, no charger. Drives hundreds of Km at a time and manages just fine using public charging stations. As more EVs hit the road, more charging stations come online. Just like fuel pumps did when ICE was in its infancy. There is an adaptation period if you never had one before. Gets me when I borrow his car from time to time. A slightly different way of thinking when it comes to charging vs liquid fuel. Not anything ridiculous or anything to worry about though. He has said he would never go back ICE. That car is saving him lots of money and the only complaint he has is the lack of actual buttons (too much touch screen).
Not every car will be perfect. You can buy an ICE car and never have an issue (like my Nissan Sentra) but any car can be a problem child. Overall though, he has little to nothing to break or worry about. I am always worried for when one of many moving parts in my ICE car will give out. After all, it is a 2012, nothing new. No breakdown ever happens at a good time either. I am sure many would agree with that.
When he asked about what service was required, VW said he just brings it in for brake fluid replacement once every couple of years.
People will have both good and bad experiences regardless of if they own an ICE or BEV. Nothing is infaliable. Technology does always get better though, that is always something to keep in mind.
In the end, even I will get an EV for my next car. The economics just make sense alone. I live in a very remote area where winters are -40 or colder regularly and others already have EVs here. Had them for years without complaint nor desire to go back. One even lives down the street and has no personal charger. They really are not that bad of a car. You can always end up with a bad luck one sure, but same for ICE as I said before. Just food for thought.
26:00 the Toyotas compared to the Tesla have loud engines that vibrate and invade the cabin ambience, engines that have to be on all the time or most of the time just to use the car (heat, a/c, infotainment, power outlets, etc). And if it’s not on because it’s in ev mode, then it’s being logged around like dead weight doing nothing all that time which overtime isn’t good for the engine. I would definitely choose the Tesla over the toyota. And the fact that it’s high performance BY DEFAULT is just a BONUS. To actually complain about that bonus like Jake is stupidly doing requires more effort than regrowing hair (unless of course toyota is paying you to say that 😉).
Once we had horses and transitioned to gas powered vehicles.
We also had electric vehicles back then, but they didn’t become the status quo.
We also had steam powered cars, but although the technology was sound, we found the technology was not optimal for the application.
The optimal technology is a liquid fuel that can be transported in the vehicle in small quantities.
If we wish to reduce emissions we need to alter the liquid fuel.
Why not switch to an alcohol fuel, the technology is decades old. We can use the current distribution systems, plus we can use various crops Ike grasses to produce the alcohol.
Just try to get your Tesla repaired and insured. A small accident and it's totalled. Toyota is keeping production down to keep their prices high.
I drove my Model Y over a nail and got a flat in the middle of nowhere. The tire went flat and needed to be taken for repair CARRIED ON THE BACK OF A TRUCK - but Tesla arranged it quickly and smoothly despite me being in a very remote area with no charge for being transported over 30 miles for tire repair. All I had to pay was about $20 for tire repair.
Got rear ended by an F150. Had the Model S fixed within 3 weeks. New bumper, trunk, lights, charging port. $7k. That is very reasonable.
was it a 50 or 100 mile tow?
All cars are easily totalled
LOL - been driving an EV for over 10 yrs and hundreds of thousands of miles. Most reliable car I’ve ever owned.
More data points from Forbes: “Among the early purchasers of electrified vehicles, 82% of Power [ JD Power ] respondents say they “definitely will” consider purchasing another in the future, according to the report. The study surveyed nearly 10,000 owners of both battery-electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles.”
@Vlasko60Nothing in an EV is new. The tech has been around for decades or more. This is nonsense
My EV is the most reliable vehicle I’ve owned, by far.
My 03/2023 mod3rwd is a defective car. 10k miles, replaced front passenger seat whole, onboard charger, and all kind of wind noise, road noise. radio is joke, it stop working anytime I believe I open a service request. Someone was doing remote repair the software. The front passenger seat got 4_6times attempts to repair the SRS codes even I got a new whole seat. It is garbage. F.Tesla car.
Don’t forget consumer report is owned by big oil. Of course they’re going to say negative things about Elon musk, and the king of electric cars.
Why should I pay 30% more for the same car with fewer parts, less reliable, lower quality, and giving me range anxi? They should be at least 20% cheaper than a similar gas model to attract more people.
No excuses for poor build quality the money put into development and testing is huge by all makers
P.S. In Canada a car that starts at -30 is what is the most important factor in "reliability". N.B. the EVs start in EVERY weather without a plug in block heater! A good example of 'data' collection is we have all heard about the VERY FEW fires in EVs BUT NOT about the hundreds of ICE cars that have had fires... and yes an electric fire is more difficult than a fire in an ICE car.
Concept of a 4th car is crazy to me. Why not also a 2nd helicopter and 1st plane and boat ? Is reliability really that important for a person with 4 cars ? Take any of the other 3 if this one doesn´t work. You basically already have a car pool.
Is there a TL;DR that isn't a half hour long?
My Prius is 2012.... no problems and still driving it daily even under Toronto's winters. If Toyota could produce more Hybrids, they will blow Tesla out of the water big time. Ask them how many customers are waiting for a RAV, Highlander, Sienna, Corolla Hybrids.............
I had two down payment on a RAV4 Hybrid LE. I waited about 7 months to get one with the options I needed on it.
Toyota had twenty years to push hybrid vehicles and that technology is coming to an end, time to move on to EVs, I am done spending money on gasoline and all the crap issues that come internal combustion engines!
Tesla and Toyota Mild Hybrids do not compete. They are vastly different vehicles. Toyota does not have enough battery production capacity to produce lots of PHEVs. The two will never compete.
Toyota has had many decades of eecalls to get thier hybrids proplems worked out. Sometimes recalling the same part multiple times over a decade.
The new breakdowns on their website were erroring out this morning. This afternoon some are working now. The breakdowns on reliability giving an overall score on each car model are quite helpful. Thank you Consumer Reports. The second question is primary concern is reality. The answer between Tesla and Toyota is Toyota by a long way. It is far more reliable than Tesla. For that matter, so is any Mazda model. Teslas are average is not great in this day and age.
They are superior to any ICE vehicle due to the nature of EVs.. so the question is are they reliable in terms of EVs or not? Toyota's EV offerings besides being less efficient require an expensive maintenance schedule in order to keep in compliance with their warranty, Tesla does not.
Basic reliability for any tesla owner drivetrain… many models have only 17 moving parts. U want to tell me cars with 2000 parts for reliable?? Not to mention warranty is good on my tesla for 120k Mikes or 12 years… not even close
Disappointed with CR for this one. Conflating "sustainability" and "reliability", as CR is doing here, is a form of climate change denial. There are literally no gas/diesel internal combustion engine vehicles that are sustainable. Zero. Even the best in class Prius has a fuel consumption that is not sustainable. It's a matter of whether we get another hundred years out of the oil economy, or a few hundred. Neither are sustainable. Even though it's annoying as heck to repair a car, it's not fundamentally *unsustainable*, and whether or not Joe the Plumber gets this, CR auto experts should not be endorsing this conflation of concepts.
Also, the comments by two of the panelists about Model 3 being ok for "around town" driving makes it seem like these people know next to nothing about EVs at all. This could be a legitimate take on some EVs that don't have access to Supercharging. But, the Model 3, which does (and charges faster than many older Model S/X) is absolutely an appropriate choice, whether you drive around town or long distance. Supercharging is easy, available on all major long distance routes in the US, and no more expensive in fuel costs than gas.
Really a thoroughly bad take from these guys.
Obviously not legit EV owners, unqualified. A lot of vague statements to cast out without facts
Why lump all EVs together? For example I'm on my third Nissan Leaf 2023 Plus model. It's my third because: since 2015 one 12 volt battery, two recalls one a bolt under the driver's seat and an added page to owner's manual, one new tire, one tube silicon (still have it) and new windshield wipers. I charge at home 100% and I use my Leaf for driving around town. They are fun to drive and tremendous acceleration up to about 40 mph. Say what you critics want but please leave Nissan Leafs in just their own light. As for.me, I love my Leaf!.PS for.long trips I drive my Cadillac.
The problem with Tesla is not reliability is cost to repair. My out of warranty Model S had an AC repair that was originally quoted to be $4.5K. I took it to a regular AC shop that repaired it for $1K but their lack of software update freaked out the 12V system. I ended having to replace the compressor once again for $2.5K. Right to repair is an issue and until independent repair shops are mainstream were going to deal with expensive repairs
The oil industry, OPEC love you ! hugs & kisses from the Arabs..
But i get where is need to go with a very reliable vehicle with low cost of ownership. That is the main value.
Thank You for supporting sustainability and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste.. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
Dealership s, and insurance companies and Hertz rental cars (they had over 40 thousand EVs) and they all agree, EVs break more often, are harder to repair and parts are harder to get, take longer time to repair, resale value is the pits, and range anxiety is a real thing.