Coming back to this again as I found that using an electric toothbrush (cut the bristles off first 😉) and use a rubber band to agitate the bottle. This works well too
Sir, you have saved my paint collection. I still have to clean the tip of the needle, just like you had to, after every minute or two of airbrushing, but not more clogs, no more paint "boogers". After the initial steel nut shake (weird thing to say out of context) it helped a little bit, but not that much. I then increased the air pressure from 12 to about 22 PSI and away I went. Clear spray pattern, good flow, nice and even coats. Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! If I might, some constructive criticism on the video. After watching the video I had the feeling that the most useful information could have been conveyed in about 8 minutes. I do appreciate you sharing the your trial and error process of getting to the final solution. It helps understand what works and what doesn't.
Thanks for the comments. I'm glad it was helpful. As for the unnecessary talking, I agree. I tend to ramble. I have over the course of time tried to work on it. I try to be a bit more concise in my commentary. Constructive criticism... very welcome info. It helps me make the videos a little better at least!
THANK YOU! I have been struggling for a very long time. I was considering buying a new and more expensive airbrush! In fact I was about to order 2 more 200ml BLS of Vallejo Primer, because I was convinced mine was too old! I have placed SS Ball bearings in all on my Vallejo bels. I’d shake the vigorously to “dissolve” the “dried” bits. In fact i would add extra thinner to dissolve them. Then I watched your video. I used a screen and lo and behold, “particulate matter” and tons of it! I have had success since. Thanks again
Yes! you make an excellent point. Ken at Badger Paint says the same thing, as at the factory, they stir the paint to mix. Also Barbatos Rex videos also uses a paint vibrating machine, but never shakes the paint......thanks BTW, I always put my paint through a strainer, makes a difference...
Solution for the problem mentioned at 3:58 I had bought a second power mixer like my Badger. The (Trumpeter) Master Tools one is half the price of Badger unit in my country and does the same job. Put its mixing blade in a power drill and ground it down on a flat metal file to a circumference which fits in the neck of the standard 17ml dropper bottles from Vallejo, MIG, AK et al. Still plenty of blade to mix the paint.
I found this video when I was looking for explanations for exact problem with Vellejo Deep Yellow paint I used, thanks a lot for putting up this video. subbed.
The problem is not just their airbrush paints. I quickly came to a strong conclusion about all the vallejo paints I've tried a while ago, and I'm only just now trying airbrushing. *You are exactly right about the problem: congealing - but I have some different conclusions:* The problem is that Vallejo is putting the paints in the containers in inconsistent thicknesses and _always way too dry._ Without fixing, every time I use vallejo on my wet pallet, it does exactly what you describe: fights to push out slimy congealed paint. Something about their mix is more inclined to congeal vs just plain dry out (that's a good thing, I guess). It makes me wonder if they have mixed just a tiny bit of gel medium into all their paints. I have 4 or 5 different brands of acrylic model paint - all of them start to behave somewhat like that _when they cross a certain dryness threshold._ In a sealed container, what evaporates should help suppress further evaporation and remix, maintaining an overall moisture level. Whenever you open them, some of this is lost, but even sealed, the plastic of the bottle slowly looses some of the moisture. If they are getting too dry, adding a few drops of water & mixing seems to fix it immediately, but then the whole mixture sucks in that moisture and it seems dry again a few days later. *But if you repeat this, the mix gets better and better, as everything inside eventually equalizes to a sustainable moisture level.* You can just start by over-watering, but that risks it being over-watery plus lumpy (much like adding starch to water: better to mix & add slowly). When it's more liquid, it mixes better. When it's over-thick, it is more inclined to separate. I have to wonder if they have just a tiny amount of solvent in their paints as well. It would explain why they are extra sensitive to thinners and flow improvers. If they already contain solvent, then they hit the over-max threshold sooner when trying to add more. PS you can get 5.5mm SS balls off amazon, 200 count for about $6-7 on amazon. I don't think using nuts will compare to how cheap that is. I am considering trying something, based on 2000's era experience with bad paintballs. A big issue was lazy stores not selling enough volume and not physically rotating the boxes.The tops off all the paintballs would dry out, making them inconsistent as half was soft and able to conform and half was dried into a crispy hard shell, likely with a dent permanently formed in it. So, I'm thinking, why not throw some foam pack into a rock tumbler and use it to periodically load up large batches of my paints to keep them all stirred up and not getting drying spots. I'm adding SS balls to them already, so that should help the stirring action.
All great comments and observations. I have long since moved on from water based paints for the airbrush... way too much hassle for me. I've switched almost exclusively to lacquer based acrylics. Pre-thinned and ready to go. Super easy to clean up. I still use Tamiya paints for some things and use either their X-20A (the alcohol based thinner0 or Mr Color Leveling Thinner depending on the particular job I am doing.
Wow. Wow wow wow. After a frustrating session with Model Air this evening, I found this vid... and my problems were solved. The sideways agitation really seems to make a difference. It probably doesn't hurt to keep the bottle's nozzle area clean, as well.
Just as a follow-up... this has absolutely improved my airbrushing experience. I've shot about a dozen colors - mostly Vallejo, some AK - and my painting problems have almost entirely disappeared. If only the rest of life was so simple....
Wow i have been keeping all my Tamiya bottles and slowly transferring Vallejo paint into them, makes it easy to mix. Just put vallejo bottles in hot water so it all runs out into jar. Happy painting
I use a vortex mixer. I have never had the issues discussed in the video. Good to see I wasn’t the only one viewing this 6 years after the video was made
In our climate - the sunny Med - its almost impossible to build kits in summer (April to October) due to our prolonged season. Its also practically useless to try to use acrylics such as V-Air straight from the bottle because this clogs up my suction fed Badger Pro airbrush and also my H&S Ultra gravity fed a/b in moments. In such weather thorough agitating and thinning are essential. I end up using more enamels because I find them to be more flowing and forgiving in our weather provided that they are decanted and thinned. Using clear decanting plastic bottles, and scraps of plastic sprue chips as agitators, I thin the paint gradually until the consistency leaves just the thinnest of films on the inside of the bottle after shaking in the ratio of 2 parts thinner to 1 part paint.
Great info Christopher. Sounds like your climate conditions are very similar to mine. I have pretty much swithced to Tamiya exclusively for AB use. No problems with tip dry and I can thin to whatever I want depending on the application. I don't use enamels mainly due to thinners involved. I am insside the house and the smell would drive us all out!
I store my closed paints upside down (all brands) as this actually helps when I then need to use the paint, prevents clogging (hardening/coagulating) at the neck of Vallejo Air and stops tinned paint (like humbrol enamels) from hardening at the bottom of the tin. The agitator is a good idea tho. With Vallejo and all squeeze bottles I make sure to clean the nozzle after use and I suppose it would be good to pierce the dried opening before storage. I sometimes place the paints I am about to use on top of the compressor as its vibrations agitate the paint inside the bottles
More great info. Storing upside down sounds like a really good idea. As far as cleaning, I am a freak about it on all of my paints. Crusty threads and caps drive me nuts. I always wipe the nozzles clean on Vallejo style bottles and use a Q-Tip/cotton bud to clean the inside of the lid.
Thanks for posting this. I've been struggling to get consistent results with VMA, especially when changing needle/tip sizes. As soon as you mentioned your analysis of the problem, I remembered reading an article in the 1980s about the 'new' acrylic paints. The article specifically said not to shake acrylics, as they will start to dry on the surface of the air bubbles that shaking causes. I, too, put an 8-32 stainless nut in the bottles.
Thanks, Chris and I'm glad it was helpful. Since this video, I have avoided the Vallejo Model Air paints for airbrush use due to ongoing problems. I use them for brush painting because they are pre-thinned. That said, however, I am getting ready to start a kit that I am going to try Model Air on again. I have found some useful advice here and there, and water-based acrylics would best considering I have grandkids around quite a bit!
@@Loneman_OG it does seem to work, but for most of the stuff I do, like mottling on German aircraft and camo schemes on armor, I use solvent type acrylics, i.e., Tamiya or Mr Hobby Aqueous... however, I just got some new bottles of Vallejo Model Air in that I will be using for my next build! I am trying to get away from solvent based paints as much as possible and I have learned some new things that should make spraying Vallejo paints work much better for my type of painting. Stay tuned!
@@BrettG64 That's excellent, then. PS. I was about to say I'll look out for your next build after I've checked out your previous work/uploads... *clicks on homepage... Ermahgerd! 533 videos, it may be a while before I get to see your latest creation, lol. Er, I may have to cherry-pick what I get to watch. :O
Hi I tried a bowl of hot water, I was worried that would melt the bottles but they survived ! And the paint went from feeling so thick when shaken in the cold bottle to absolutely feeling so thin when shaken it was about a milky watery feeling in the bottle! It definitely thinned the paint back to probably when tested and filled in factory! I used to do this with car spray paints for repairs and it has worked! If you want to try this way sometime yourself!?
incredible that your video is 7 years old and this is still an issue, i am here looking for answers after i trashed my almost finish bf109, and i almost had a stroke when you grabed your vallejo paint and showed it to us as it is the same paint i had problems with, after a while i felt like if you were taunting me with that demonic paint bottle
2 words "FLOW IMPROVER" Vallejo have a product called airbrush flow improver its liquid gold I spray Vallejo model colour through my iwata hpc+ Regularly No issues straight from the bottle 2-3 drops first add your paint then couple drops of water I don't ever use model air and if you want a indicator strip just cut the barcode of with a knife
How'd this work out for ya Brett? I was gonna suggest not mixing the paint in the bottle, but in a separate container, that way maybe eliminate the shaking/dried paint chip issue? I always mix my paint out of the bottle, but I only use Tamiya which doesn't seem to have this issue. Even when paint brushing, I never use the paint from the bottle because the pigment eventually dries and changes the consistency of the paint. A lot of good ideas here, maybe just find what works for ya?
Bingo on the Tamiya paint, hence my switch to it. I always remove paint from the container to paint... never use from the bottle/jar for the very reasons you mention. Vallejo, MIG, etc., is the exception. The whole dropper type bottle is supposed to be one of their selling points. I just find that that type of paint is just not conducive to my style of painting I guess. For me Tamiya is pretty fool proof. It's forgiving for lengthy paint sessions, thins the way I want, and I have never had a clog or a chunk come flying out.
Each time I use my new Vallejo Model color paints ( thinned with Vallejo Thinner Medium ir Vallejo airbrush thinner) the paint flakes or scrapes off easily when fully dried. I think it has to do with the paint not being fully mixed by shaking the bottles. Like you I like the squirt bottle style bottle but do not like how there is no good way to fully mix the paint easily like a regular bottle. I think what I’ll do is to add an agitator to the bottles like you to fully mix the paints. Hopefully when we’ll mixed the paints will perform better and not flake off and peel off easily .
Since doing this video, I have switched to using Tamiya for all of my spraying needs and using the Vallejo Model Air for brush painting smaller parts. Afte struggling with the Model Air for so long, I decided to avoid the frustraion altogether. There are lots of people who get very good results with Model Air, but I just can't. I have a feeling part of it has to do with the climate I live in. I may give water based acrylics a try again, but it most likely won't be Model Air. Please comment again and let me know how it works out!
Thanks Brett Tamiya has been my long time go-to paint for everything. It is reliable and easy to work with. It’s too bad that I bought 20 Vallejo paints thinking I’ve found a new paint to add to the “tool box”. I am buying more Mr Hobby paints to supplement my Tamiya though. Thanks.
i add a couple drops of thinner and flow improver...applies great but the paint has a somewhat weak adhesion and i have noticed quite a bit of paint rubbing off while handling parts....I am hoping i can figure out how to make it stick better. I use badgers stynylrez primer and the paint still doestn like to adhere.
Yessir, Mr Whiz. All this time later and I've yet to make it fool proof. I quit using it for quite a while then started up again. Now I'm back to not using it much. I like the colors and the lack of offensive/toxic fumes, and the colors are nice. But they just don't fit in with the style of modeling/painting I do. They are just too finicky.
Hey man. Great video. I've had trouble with some of my Vallejo paints in the past and emailed them about it. They were very helpful, you should give it a try. I'm not gonna say how they were helpful, you'll have to just try it yourself!
Hi Brett, Thanks for sharing - very informative. I would like to ask why you do not just stick with Model Master? They cover every shade / colour imaginable and as you say are supposed to be super consistent. I live in Europe and find them impossible to get hold of, otherwise I would stock up for sure. For me - good old Tamiya never gives a problem, EVER. And once you get the hang of thinning Revel Aqua, they are also gorgeous to use and are so under-rated. I have been tempted on many occasions to try Vallejo - but I keep hearing about issues and problems... For my two cents, I would also suggest that your airbrush needle/nozzle size is far more important even than air pressure. I would suggest 0.35 (Iwata) or 0.4 mm (H&S) is the minimum size you really want to use with these sort of paints. Best regards, Michael
+Michael B Thanks for the comments. As for not using the Model Master exclusively, it is partially due to my local supplier not having the full line. Hence, colors I need are not always available. Next, I want to at least use up the Vallejo paint I have. Once it is used up I may stick to Model master Acryls for sheer convenience, since I can buy it locally, mostly. The reason I have never used Tamiya is because of the odors. I sparay inside the house and I can't have toxic fumes floating about the house. For needle size, I use .35 mostly. For a finer line, like on aircraft for instance, I use a 2.5, but am finding I can do pretty good with the .35. For sheer volume with paint or primer, I use my single action Paasche with a .5 Again, thanks for the comments. That is why I post these videos.
Hello Brett G, just discovered you and liked your Vallejo Model Air video. I like using their primers on model cars and figures. They come in bigger bottles 60 ml. as opposed to Model Color or Air at 17 ml. The primers can be brushed or sprayed straight from the bottle. So the bottle being bigger means it lasts longer which means it gets opened and closed a lot, which in turn causes trapped air to cure some paint and problem created. Your video now confirms that. I too use the added stainless nut agitator. When the bottle was fresh, no grief from my air brush, when not fresh I was getting clogs. Used some Vallejo thinners but not the cure. So what I found was using a tea ball strainer. I place my air brush in its holder, position the strainer above the air brush bowl and add my paint and find crap in the strainer and no grief from the air brush in flow. Hope this may help others. Question, what tip size and make is your air brush ? Cheers Eh!
+Gordon Enquist thanks for the tip. I had thought of straining the paint, but couldn't think of a way to do it, but the tea ball strainer sounds perfect. The hardware/general store a couple of blocks from me has them, so next time I am there I am going to grab one.
Well now that video explains a lot! I to have had similar problems Vallejo paints as you said and tried different ways to solve spraying problems only to go back to using Humbrol or Model Master enamels. By the way ,thank you for subscribing to my humble channel and if you noticed I to have a 1/25 scale Tiger in the second video which needs some weathering but my problem is the decal sheet is kaput! Where can I get a new sheet from? P.S. Guess where I'm stopping tomorrow after work!!
+bob ahnert Well, reversely, i'm in the verge of converting from Humbrol enamels to the Vallejo Model Air's, just because of the stink i can't control. Lacquer smell disturbs my parents more than it does me and despite using a spray booth directly mounted on to my room's windows with a 15-Cm aspirator, it doesnt suck enough to keep my workarea clean..
Thanks for the tips man. I haven't had any problems with Vallejo yet, I buy the individual paints and they sell pretty quickly at my hobby shop that may be why. But if I do have any problems I'll definitely give this a try. Thanks again man.
This video is placing my mind at ease. I am having troubles with Model Air 231 that comes in the NATO Armour Colors set #78.413. I'm sticking with it, but I have no idea how old it is, how it was stored or shipped, or what medium it was mixed with. I also love the finish that the paint provides and I don't mind learning my paints; however, I have become suspicious that this one is just a goober. I'll give it a few more chances and get a different bottle when I run out. Thanks!
No problem, Jerry. For what its worth, I never have been able to get Vallejo to work. If I am doing something really quick and small, it works out ok. But for larger projects, and especially camo work that takes more time, its a no-go for me. Plenty of people get it to work just fine, but for me, it doesn't work. Please let me know how it works out for you!
Brett, I'm new to airbrush painting and not doing really detailed work. I need consistent coverage on medium to small parts. What tip, pressure and paint do you recommend? I'm working with nothing but metallics. Thanks!
Most of my work is done with an Iwata HP-M2 single action brush with a .4 tip. I use it for most primer work and base layer paint. I usually spray at 15-16 psi. As for paint I have switched almost exclusively to lacquer based acrylics like MRP and SMS. Those are sprayed straight from the bottle since they are very thin to begin with. I do use Tamiya and Mr Color and Mr Hobby colors occasionally but thinning can vary depending on what I'm doing. If I am wanting a really opaque layer I will go 50/50 paint and Mr Leveling Thinner and adjust from there. Keep an eye peeled on my channel because I'm going to do a paint video real soon.
@@BrettG64 Thank you for the valuable information. I built a spray booth with exhaust the past few days, going to give it a go tomorrow, using your tips. /respect
Thanks for the video! I love Vallejo bottles but am so frustrated with constant clogging and really inconsistent results from colour to colour. What psi do you usually use? I've tried 15 to 25 and still can't get the hang of it and I'm constantly getting either grainy paint or just thin with spider legs everywhere. Frustrating! Cheers!
Frustrating indeed. So frustrating, that I have switched to using Tamiya paints prety much exclusively for airbrush work. Much easier to thin, sparay and clean up. I tried everything with Vallejo and it just doesn't suit my ways of spraying I guess. I use Vallejo Model Air and Model Color for brush painting only now. Sorry I didn't have a better answer.
@@BrettG64 Thanks Brett, I'll thinking of doing the same thing. Do you mind me asking, what thinning ratio and psi you would recommend for spraying Tamiya? Thanks again! Dan
@@spruetherapy generally, I do 50/50 paint to thinner. As for psi, I am usually about 15 or 16. If I am doing close in work I sometimes go as low as 12, but that's rare. 50/50 paint thinner and 15 or 16 psi for most of my painting. For upclose camo, I sometimes do more like 75% thinner and 25% paint, but that is for camo mottling on German aircrafft.
I hadn't thought about how i shook the bottles untill i watched this vid but from the very beginning i have always held the bottle by the lid n shook it side to side and in a swirling motion, ive never had a problem spraying through my airbrush which is a 0.2 ml except for white
@Brett G Brett, after discovering this trick with mixing for model air paints, are you shooting them straight out of the bottle now? Or are you still finding that you need to use thinners and/or flow improvers to get a good result? (And if so what ratios do you recommend). Also, are you shooting the model air at between 15-20psi? Or are you using a different pressure? Thanks!
Hi, Tyler! I don't use thinner, but I do use flow improver. I think it is one to two drops flow improver to 10 drops of paint. Helps a ton with tip dry, since I live in a dry climate with really hot temps in the summer and fairly mild temps in the winter (73 F here today as a matter of fact!) And for most of the paints I use for general spraying I run about 15 or 16 PSI. I do thin my paints a bit and run lower PSI for spraying mottling like one would see on German aircraft from WWII, or freehand camo schemes on armor.
I read that one young lady took a paperclip, straightened it out, created a small hook at the bottom and used her Dremmel on low speed to mix her cheap Walmart Apple Barrel paint. I will try this with my paints. food for thought
Thanks, useful information. I'd noticed the foaming before, and usually wait a couple of minutes for it to relax before spraying. The retarder is a strange gel, so very difficult to get out of the dropper bottle once it's partially used. It's also awkward to judge the ratio when only using a small amount of paint for details. If I can spray straight from the bottle, it will make painting much less hassle. I too have found the wet cotton bud an essential tool when spraying, particularly if I'm using quite a low flow to do, for example, freehand mottle camouflage.
I stopped to watch the video at 2 minutes as soon I figured that Vallejo air can NOT be used straight from the bottle. I do modeling for over 40 years but only started to use airbrushes 10 years ago and had a few different models since then. Unfortunately I never managed do have a good time with them because thin paints is a very challenging part of the process for me. The worse scenario is when I use too little thinner and the thick mix clogs the airbrush forcing me to disassemble it and clean everything. I use enamels but have tried a couple different acrylics too. Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was SO frustrated that I sold my airbrush and compressor. A couple days later (nope, I didn't regret) I was talking to a friend when he mentioned 'Vallejo air' as being a very easy to use paint to be used straight from the bottle - and that supposed to be a solution for my problems. However I didn't long too much to find this clarifier video that tells all the truth so I won't even waste my time trying it (and frustrating myself one more time). I know that some will tell that I should have watched the video till the end to see the proposed "fix" but honestly I am not interested to fix a product that supposed to work as it is advertised. Thanks for the video, Brett!
Yan, thanks for the comments. I totally agree with you on the frustration with Vallejo paints. There are many, many people that use them with great results... unfortunately I am not one of them. Since I posted this video I have moved on to other paints to use in my airbrush. I still use Vallejo Model Color and Model Air but mostly for brush painting. It works just fine for that. My frustration is similar to yours. I like to be able to use stuff straight from the bottle, with the only exception of maybe using a bit of thinner. But as for "flow improvers" and "retarders" and whatnot, I don't want to have to practice chemistry lessons to use something. I plan on doing a follow up video to this soon to discuss my thought further now that it has been a while since I did this video.
Thanks for chiming in Christopher. I think I finally got Vallejo figured out, but after recently switching to Tamiya, I have to say I am much happier. Total consistency from jar to jar, unlike the Vallejo paints. I still really like Vallejo for brush painting, but am pretty much going to Tamiya exclusively for airbrush.
Brett G I thin the Tamiya paints by adding enough thinner to around the second thread of the jar and it shoots smoothly at 12 PSI. I have had to use the Tamiya retarder for longer projects though to stop it from drying almost as soon as it hits the Panzer's surface. I believe also that part of the Vallejo paint problems is the high quality and thickness of the pigments. The small washer is a great idea and I shall be trying that. I have been cutting a piece of sprue and stirring it but I don't think it works that great due to the way the bottles are made. Great video and thanks for the reply.
Christopher Scott no problem. I think a nut, bearing, or whatever works better than a piece or sprue as some have suggested. metal will have a bit more weight to it, which should help a bit with it breaking free of the pigments in the bottom of the bottle so it can do its job of mixing everything up.
Hey Brett, this is a life saver. How did you find the finish? I just got some VGA last night and have a rubbery finish. I'm gonna go buy a sh*t ton of nuts today!
Yeah, the finish is kind of rubbery. It really is more of a skin than paint. I have said before that I am going to do an update to this video with some final conclusions of sorts. I have found that if it is anywhere near hot and or dry around here, I can forget using this paint. It skins over really quick in the cup and clogs like crazy. If you will notice this video was done in January when it is much cooler here, and the paint work quite a bit better. It is a shame because the colors are pretty good, and the final finish is pretty nice. Very smooth but takes weather and decals quite well. The nuts do help a bunch too. Mixes it way better.
Thanks. I'm in central Canada, on the prairies, so we range from Mordor level to heat in the summer to freeze-the-snot-in-your-nose cold in the winter. Still, my paint area usually is around 15c, humidity obviously varies. I'll try mixing this paint up and see. Worst case scenario the big fancy Game Air set I got was a gift so I'm not out anything other than a bit of initial excitement. I noticed after giving Black a vigorous shake (against your recommendation but sans agitator) it seemed to dry a bit better with a far less tacky/rubbery finish.
Hey Brett. Did you consider using tiny little plain stainless steel balls ? And another (and more important) question is; is Model Air as durable as enamels ? I mean, it can't be due to its chemistry at all, but i just dont want my paintwork to be peeled away with a tamiya tape during removing the masking tapes or blu-tacs.
+Slammer I haven't tried the balls, just the nuts. Since I changed my mixing method I haven't had any of the stringy, chunky paint problems. I think that was the real culprit. Well, that and inconsistent paint viscosity. As far as durability, I have had no trouble with Tamiya tape of regular painters masking tape, or blue tack. I have primed with Tamiya primer and Vallejo primer, then painted with either Vallejo or Model Master Acryls and no peeling happened with tape removal. I have also used the Vallejo primers in German colors by itself and no problems with it either.
+Brett Grogan Thanks for the answer! I've tried spraying Model Color yesterday. I've experimented with both their own AB Thinner, tap water and diluted water. All of them tend to peel off with the force of a tape. But deliberately, i've tried this after an hour of applying. What's the best curing time for Vallejo's according to your observations ?
+Slammer No problem. I actually spray Model Air, not Model Color, so I don't know if that is a factor or not. Generally, I don't tape or anything until the following day. This evening I will be working on a plane that has had tape on it for about four months. Will be interesting to see what happens when I peel that off.
SO THIS IS MY PROBLEM! Loved Vallejo but the colors are pretty opaque and it just won't spray a good quantity, I almost trashed my brush but I guess it's the paint
EZ, there are lots of people that get great results with this stuff, but so far it is very hit and miss for me. Shane Smyth (he has a great YT Channel) gets good results and he recommended using their flow improver. I have started experimenting with it and plan to do a follow up to this one with my findings. It does seem to help, but I think climate has a lot to do with it. Once the hot weather hits and I do some more experimentation I will have a better idea.
I got the Russian patriotic vallijo air paints and only the nato black out the whole lot sprays directly from the bottle so need to go get thinners today as couldn't use them last nyt not even water worked! So had to switch back to enamels to finish a paint job off! They sprayed no problem once thinned abit with enamel thinner but don't think enamel thinner works with acrylic never tried it so away to get airbrush thinner just now to see if that'll be any better! Paying out for these paints ain't cheap really and the claim is what sold me really! Ready out the bottle! Your totally correct about every bottle being different thickness! I really don't like them with my first experience with them but I will give them another try as seem to be the best according to others but really I think to myself when do I ever listen to anyone else's claims without trying them myself! And out the bottle needs to be looked at again there definitely not!
Hello, Scottish Bonsai! I have heard about the hot water thing, but never trie it. I don't want to have to do much every time I paint. Its a bummer that I can't get them to work, because I do like their color range for the most part and the finish is nice. In the end, I gave most of mine to a friend that likes them. I kept a few colors that I use for brush painting, though. Let me know if you finally get them to work.
Thanks for the tip but i think i shall stick with Gunze and Tamiya paints. Not had any probs so far spraying at 25psi and a 50/50 mix paint and thinner.
Thanks for the comment Mark, and oddly enough, I have switched almost exclusively to Tamiya paints. After messing with Vallejo and the other water based acrylics, I have determined they are too much hassle for me. I plan to do a follow up video to this one stating my decisions on paint and why.
+paulusm07 Thanks. And I knew I was forgetting something! For general spraying I use 15 psi out of a Co2 cylinder. For camo spraying/ up-close work I turn it down to 10 psi.
I've had the opposite experience with Model Master.. about 50% failure - needing extensive thinking - and then having adhesion problems. Limited experience with Model Air, but the one bottle I used worked flawlessly
As you were shaking the hell out of it and said "and what this does..." I said out loud.. "BUBBLES!" Makes total sense. I just made the decision to use this product line and I am glad I stumbled upon this video. Do you think the right angles/sharp edges on the nut are actually scraping the partially cured paint, where a small bearing would not??
Agreed! Stocked up with Vallejo model air, and I'm having to clean the brush every 5-minutes because it clogs and splatters. Very disappointed because of all the hype they're given by the 'experts'.
I did the same thing Russell. Buying sets of paint and regretting it. However, I have figured out how to work with the Vallejo paints, and for some jobs they are perfectly fine. The tip dry and all the frustration that goes with it is really frustrating though. I would never think of painting fine mottling on a Luftwaffe airplane with the Vallejo. I have done it once and it was an exercise in frustration. That type of painting is why I have added Tamiya paint to my store of supplies.
I am new to modeling and I have purchased Model paints. I have brand new paints that I have used, some work like they are advertised, but there others that are so thick that agitators will not move in the bottle, in some of them the agitator sat on top of paint and sloowly sank; some of them had completely dry paint at the top. I am still trying figure out how to fix this problem. I do thank you for the advise.
It is Model Color. I got it in set of 16, It was a military set ( I think it a WWII military colors set), and every one of them is the same viscosity, extremely thick.@@BrettG64
regardless of the paint I use I have a reqlly right weave screen I strain my paint through as I pour it into my airbrush cup... since I started doing that no more clogged airbrush
It's a shame they don't shoot straight from the bottle. Some bottles work great and yet others need some thinning, so consistency is variable for sure. Interesting vid and discussion
Thanks for the tip, Carl. I have moved on from the water-based acrylics to lacquer-based acrylics since making this video. I am now fortunate to have a better room to build/paint with great ventilation and a decent extractor so the smells associated with lacquers are no longer an issue. For me the lacquers are much easier to use and clean up.
Thanks, rene. I have pretty much hashed out all of the problems I had, and it sprays pretty well for me now right out of the bottle. For longer jobs though, I still get some tip dry, but that seems to be unavoidable.
Thank you for a very informative video. How about modifying a Badger Paint Stirrer to make sure the agitator tip of the stirrer fits into the neck of the Model Air bottle? Then you don't need to shake or stir or use any agitator in the bottle. The Paint Stirrer is about $10.
Thanks for the comment Jay. I have actually seen a video where a guy does that very thing. He cut the tip off the agitator, and epoxied a small paddle on the end, sized to fit in the neck of the bottle. It looked like it worked pretty good.
Great video and even better name! Lol, have recently started to paint my Gundam models and am having slightly different issues with the VMA paint and will try your suggestion. Getting much better results with my Tamiya right now though. Lays down so much better, but perhaps mixing better will help. Thanks again.
+brett nelson howdy Brett. And I agree... awesome name. I would try Tamiya, but the fume thing keeps me limited. As far as mixing, I think the agitator in the bottle with a side to side swishing/swirling motion instead of a violent up and down shake.
Thanks, Matthew. Yessir, SE Racing BMX Innovations. Rode for them in the '80s and still have some SE BMX bikes, including the one I raced back then. Glad the video helped. I don't know whay all paint companies don't put mixing balls in their containers. Its a big help. Fortunately, many are starting to.
@@BrettG64 I moved to the mountains decades ago. Powder is easier on the body than concrete 😉 splitboarding is my jam. I just sprayed some insignia white following your directions. Flawless, although I still have to thin 15-20%. Altitude maybe🤔, I live at 8K.
I'm going to try and heat in abit on the radiator like I do with spray cans to get a thinner coat and non orange peel!? Got to try something I'm like you, why claim it's ready out the bottle if it's not! Must be something more to.the paint mixture
Oh sorry my Nato black is the other one that is gloopy and needs to be thinned out the bottle shaken not stirred haha! But yeh brand new box unless sat for along time in the shop!
And there you go. My NATO Black was one of the good ones! Inconsistent viscosity throught the bottles regardless if its the same color. I think it may be a shelf life thing. They just get thicker as they sit.
Hi thanks for sharing the tips very helpful. I recently started into this and trying to learn. I don't have an air brush so I am using brush for painting and priming the figures. I'm using Vallejo grey primer and then paint the figures using Vallejo colors. But the problem is the paint is chipping off when rubbed the figures with fingers. Any suggestions?. Thanks.
Hi, Phani. Do you use primer on your figures before painting? If not you might give that a try. It will help the paint stick better. Also, the paint needs to cure really well. Do you use any additives in your paint?
@@BrettG64 Hi Brett thanks for replying. Yes I do prime them using Vallejo grey primer using brush. I am painting HO(1/87) scale figures. If I rub them using nails the paint is going off easily.
That's a bummer. Vallejo paint is soft, even when dry, so being that the figures are tthat small, the detail is finer and easier to rub off, I guess. That's really the only thing I can think of. Unlike enamels, or laquers, water based acrylics, like Vallejo, don't really "bite" into the plastic. They basically create a skin of color over the object. I am sure that has something to do with the fragility. Have you tried using a clear coat of some kind after painting to help make them a bit more durable?
@@BrettG64 hi Brett, yeah I have tried Vallejo varnish as well. Not sure but I feel I'm missing something, should I need to apply multiple coats of primer and varnish?
Yes, they do! Funny thing is I usually have ball bearings on hand since I work on bicycles quite a bit, but at the time I did this video I was out! So I had to use what I had on hand. Thanks for the comment.
the problem isn't the paint, it's how you use them, if you are in a dry climate you will need to add flow improver, or retarder, simply because the air is warmer coming out of the compressor. I have no problems with Vallejo Air in any of my three airbrushes, an Iwata Neo, A Harder & Steinback Infinity, and a Badger
Thanks, Graham. I use a CO2 cylinder for my air source, so the propellent isn't really an issue. Since this video was made, I have tried all of the additives at one time or another, but still suffer quite a bit of problems. If I am spraying a single color, like a basecoat, I can generally get it to work fine. But, if I am doing a longer lasting project like a camo job or something, that is when the problems begin. At this point I have pretty much switched over to Tamiya paints for almost all of my spray needs. No tip dry. No clogs. No skinning over in the color cup. In the future, I may mess with them Vallejo again as an airbrush paint, but for now, I will continue to use them as brush paints. The biggest bummer is, I like their actual colors and I like the finish they provide. Thanks for the comments!
I don't use any fixed ratios. It depends on what I am painting. If I am doing a base coat of, say, olive drab, I'll do it about 50/50 with my PSI set at around 16 to 18. If I am spraying camo colors that I was to build up slowly and don't want to pool up, I'll use a thinner mixture... maybe 60% to 70% thinner and set my pressure to about 12 PSI.
hiya mate good vid there on the vallejo air, yeah it can be hit or miss with these paints but i found that using tamiyas X20A thinner improved the performance all round and it mixes very well and doesn't clog your needle as much but ,also if ur using adjitators make sure u buy the marine grade as they will not rust in ur bottles over time kutgw :L)
Thanks. Funny thing is, after I got my new airbrush, I haven't had any problems with any of my paints, printing ers, or clears.... all acrylic. So, I think it was a combo of airbrush and the problems I discuss in the video. And yes, marine grade stainless steel is the way to go.
Phazzer- 758 So the Tamiya thinner...which is basically 50/50 mix of alcohol and distilled water will work with Vallejo paints? I thought about trying it, as I use the Tamiya paints primarily.
Interesting video ! Iv just bought a brand new set of vallijo air paints for my IL2 m3 flying tank kit and most are ok but the black and the dark shade camo green is gloopy and think and splutters when spraying it just about ruined the build! Managed to do a gradient in to the the lighter sandy shade n saved it but disappointing! First got with vallijo Air paints aswell not a great start for a new product on my behalf trying out! Now I probably would have something to say on the out the bottle claim! Some are but always buy an airbrush thinner with them.if don't have any in your airbrushing item's!
@@BrettG64 yes it worked just like the way I used to heat up the spray tins years ago to stop the orange peel, but I'm just using a couple of drops of thinner now saved alot of arsing about
I think that is a really big factor in my experience with this paint. I have long since stopped using water-based acrylics due to the fact that I have a spray booth and great ventilation.
Sweet! I just started airbrushing had I just bought a couple bottles of Vallejo paints. They didn't have the Model Air, just the Model Colors, but even though they're different as far as one being airbrush ready, I'm not going to shake the bottles in the typical up and down motion, but the way you did it. And believe me, shaking it up and down in the typical way is how I would've done it. Would I have had any problems? I don't know, but I'm not going to experiment with it to find out. I've got enough things just learning how to airbrush, I don't need to add to it. Anyway, thank you again for you help. Oh, one last thing, no one is ever going to convince ns that rotating the bottle in between the palms of your hand is going to mix that paint up. Any paint. That makes about as much sense as wiping first and then going. LOL! Best wishes, Michael Truhett U.S.C.G. Veteran Semper Paratus 🇺🇸
Michael Truhett I totally agree on their mixing method. was just thinking of it last night as a matter of fact. and I have found the best thing to thin their paints including model color is the vallejo airbrush thinner. if you don't have it locally order online.
I got these first Model Colors at Hobby Lobby, but mostly I get my stuff from the big hobby shop in the city about an hour from me. As for thinning, I'll definitely use their airbrush thinner instead of water. I can use water to clean my brushes, acetone if that doesn't do it completely, but for airbrushing it'll definitely be their thinner. Speaking of, I just sprayed some model Color through my airbrush and not only did it spray beautifully, not one single time did it plug up where I had to use a qtip to clean the needle and nozzle. It sprayed absolutely fantastic from start to finish. I'm very impressed with the Model Colors. So far anyway. I'm just going to buy the colors I need for what project I happen to be doing and eventually I'll have all the Model Colors I need. Anyway, thanks again for your help and tomorrow I'll go get some stainless steel nuts.
The problem with Vallejo is you have to figure out the tricks to use the stuff in your gun. it shouldn't be so complicated. I will stick with Gunze and Tamiya for my guns. Vallejo is great for brushing, but good lord, having to solve the secret of the universe to shoot this stuff just isn't worth it. Tip dry is an issue for me. I know it occurs with all paint, but with Vallejo it's a constant battle.
Kevin E. true stuff. I have pretty much relegated Vallejo to brush painting and large area painting of solid colors. For camo and slower more complicated paint jobs it has become tamiya for me. thanks for tge comments.
I would highly suggest not using those nuts as agitators, a piece of plastic sprue from a model kit is much safer. That nut will eventually oxidize and add particulates that can damage the brass and fine tips of needles in your airbrush over time.
Got to second this. Unless you are very active and finish the bottle quickly these will rust. After about 6 months break from my hobby I had 30 bottles with rusted nuts and had to trow them away. So we're talking months, not years for stainless nuts.
IMHO the best thing you can do with Model Air is throw it straight into the bin. Or better still, don't waste money buying it in the first place. If you can get past the horrendous needle tip drying, it sprays nice enough, but if you so much as look at it funny it falls back off again, doesn't tolerate masking and worst of all - if you do knock some off and/or pull it up - it doesn't sand, so forget feathering in and touching up. Instead of trying to "work around" it's many, many shortcomings, either just "accept" them or go seek something better. Whenever I've tried Acrylic paints, I always find myself repeating over and over "I never used to have these problems with enamels, I never used to have these problems with enamels, ......." Just saying.
Thanks for the comments, Dave. I fully agree with you. This video is pretty old now and I have long since seen the error of my ways. I have fully changed over to Tamiya acrylics and been using them exclusively for quite some time now and have absolutely zero problems with them. I have since given away almost all of the Model Air except for the ones I brush paint details with... at least they are good for that. Thanks again for chiming in.
I absolutely love the vallejo colours, they are about the most beautiful colours i've ever used in my life. But every metallic colour even if i thinn then to the extreme clogg my airbrush in matter of secons so that i can only spray them with far to high psi. which workes i guess but i can't paint any deatails with it.
+Aaron Terell Are you using the Model Air line or Model Color? I have been able to spray Model Air metallics straight from the bottle with no problems (so far.)
Brett G the model game air. It clogs so fast it's not even funy anymore. The non metalic colores work rather well if thinned a littlw but the metalic ones. I even bought a second batch to check. In particular it are the colors gold and gunmetal that cause my problems. I can only brush these with high pressure as 40 psi. Otherwise they won't eveny spray a little.
I always warm my Vallejo in hot water then swirl before use and they spray great after that
logical
im gonna try that, thankyou
Coming back to this again as I found that using an electric toothbrush (cut the bristles off first 😉) and use a rubber band to agitate the bottle. This works well too
@@petersmith2112 neat tip. I'm going to try a longer term plan of making a foam insert to try slow turning on a rock tumbler
Sir, you have saved my paint collection. I still have to clean the tip of the needle, just like you had to, after every minute or two of airbrushing, but not more clogs, no more paint "boogers".
After the initial steel nut shake (weird thing to say out of context) it helped a little bit, but not that much. I then increased the air pressure from 12 to about 22 PSI and away I went. Clear spray pattern, good flow, nice and even coats.
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! If I might, some constructive criticism on the video. After watching the video I had the feeling that the most useful information could have been conveyed in about 8 minutes. I do appreciate you sharing the your trial and error process of getting to the final solution. It helps understand what works and what doesn't.
Thanks for the comments. I'm glad it was helpful.
As for the unnecessary talking, I agree. I tend to ramble. I have over the course of time tried to work on it. I try to be a bit more concise in my commentary.
Constructive criticism... very welcome info. It helps me make the videos a little better at least!
13:30 he says the fix.
so much talking for "put a hex nut in it and dont shake it like crazy"
THANK YOU! I have been struggling for a very long time. I was considering buying a new and more expensive airbrush! In fact I was about to order 2 more 200ml BLS of Vallejo Primer, because I was convinced mine was too old! I have placed SS Ball bearings in all on my Vallejo bels. I’d shake the vigorously to “dissolve” the “dried” bits. In fact i would add extra thinner to dissolve them. Then I watched your video. I used a screen and lo and behold, “particulate matter” and tons of it! I have had success since. Thanks again
I'm glad to hear it was helpful! Thanks
Yes! you make an excellent point. Ken at Badger Paint says the same thing, as at the factory, they stir the paint to mix. Also Barbatos Rex videos also uses a paint vibrating machine, but never shakes the paint......thanks BTW, I always put my paint through a strainer, makes a difference...
Solution for the problem mentioned at 3:58 I had bought a second power mixer like my Badger. The (Trumpeter) Master Tools one is half the price of Badger unit in my country and does the same job. Put its mixing blade in a power drill and ground it down on a flat metal file to a circumference which fits in the neck of the standard 17ml dropper bottles from Vallejo, MIG, AK et al. Still plenty of blade to mix the paint.
I found this video when I was looking for explanations for exact problem with Vellejo Deep Yellow paint I used, thanks a lot for putting up this video. subbed.
Tried this on one of my problem bottles of paint and it works!! Thank you so much!!
The problem is not just their airbrush paints. I quickly came to a strong conclusion about all the vallejo paints I've tried a while ago, and I'm only just now trying airbrushing.
*You are exactly right about the problem: congealing - but I have some different conclusions:*
The problem is that Vallejo is putting the paints in the containers in inconsistent thicknesses and _always way too dry._
Without fixing, every time I use vallejo on my wet pallet, it does exactly what you describe: fights to push out slimy congealed paint. Something about their mix is more inclined to congeal vs just plain dry out (that's a good thing, I guess). It makes me wonder if they have mixed just a tiny bit of gel medium into all their paints.
I have 4 or 5 different brands of acrylic model paint - all of them start to behave somewhat like that _when they cross a certain dryness threshold._ In a sealed container, what evaporates should help suppress further evaporation and remix, maintaining an overall moisture level. Whenever you open them, some of this is lost, but even sealed, the plastic of the bottle slowly looses some of the moisture.
If they are getting too dry, adding a few drops of water & mixing seems to fix it immediately, but then the whole mixture sucks in that moisture and it seems dry again a few days later. *But if you repeat this, the mix gets better and better, as everything inside eventually equalizes to a sustainable moisture level.*
You can just start by over-watering, but that risks it being over-watery plus lumpy (much like adding starch to water: better to mix & add slowly). When it's more liquid, it mixes better. When it's over-thick, it is more inclined to separate.
I have to wonder if they have just a tiny amount of solvent in their paints as well. It would explain why they are extra sensitive to thinners and flow improvers. If they already contain solvent, then they hit the over-max threshold sooner when trying to add more.
PS you can get 5.5mm SS balls off amazon, 200 count for about $6-7 on amazon. I don't think using nuts will compare to how cheap that is.
I am considering trying something, based on 2000's era experience with bad paintballs. A big issue was lazy stores not selling enough volume and not physically rotating the boxes.The tops off all the paintballs would dry out, making them inconsistent as half was soft and able to conform and half was dried into a crispy hard shell, likely with a dent permanently formed in it.
So, I'm thinking, why not throw some foam pack into a rock tumbler and use it to periodically load up large batches of my paints to keep them all stirred up and not getting drying spots. I'm adding SS balls to them already, so that should help the stirring action.
All great comments and observations. I have long since moved on from water based paints for the airbrush... way too much hassle for me. I've switched almost exclusively to lacquer based acrylics. Pre-thinned and ready to go. Super easy to clean up. I still use Tamiya paints for some things and use either their X-20A (the alcohol based thinner0 or Mr Color Leveling Thinner depending on the particular job I am doing.
Wow. Wow wow wow. After a frustrating session with Model Air this evening, I found this vid... and my problems were solved. The sideways agitation really seems to make a difference. It probably doesn't hurt to keep the bottle's nozzle area clean, as well.
Glad it helped Russ. And clean nozzles do help a bunch.
Just as a follow-up... this has absolutely improved my airbrushing experience. I've shot about a dozen colors - mostly Vallejo, some AK - and my painting problems have almost entirely disappeared.
If only the rest of life was so simple....
Wow i have been keeping all my Tamiya bottles and slowly transferring Vallejo paint into them, makes it easy to mix. Just put vallejo bottles in hot water so it all runs out into jar. Happy painting
A vortex mixer seems like a life saver for these paints then.
I use a vortex mixer. I have never had the issues discussed in the video. Good to see I wasn’t the only one viewing this 6 years after the video was made
In our climate - the sunny Med - its almost impossible to build kits in summer (April to October) due to our prolonged season. Its also practically useless to try to use acrylics such as V-Air straight from the bottle because this clogs up my suction fed Badger Pro airbrush and also my H&S Ultra gravity fed a/b in moments. In such weather thorough agitating and thinning are essential. I end up using more enamels because I find them to be more flowing and forgiving in our weather provided that they are decanted and thinned. Using clear decanting plastic bottles, and scraps of plastic sprue chips as agitators, I thin the paint gradually until the consistency leaves just the thinnest of films on the inside of the bottle after shaking in the ratio of 2 parts thinner to 1 part paint.
Great info Christopher. Sounds like your climate conditions are very similar to mine. I have pretty much swithced to Tamiya exclusively for AB use. No problems with tip dry and I can thin to whatever I want depending on the application. I don't use enamels mainly due to thinners involved. I am insside the house and the smell would drive us all out!
I store my closed paints upside down (all brands) as this actually helps when I then need to use the paint, prevents clogging (hardening/coagulating) at the neck of Vallejo Air and stops tinned paint (like humbrol enamels) from hardening at the bottom of the tin. The agitator is a good idea tho. With Vallejo and all squeeze bottles I make sure to clean the nozzle after use and I suppose it would be good to pierce the dried opening before storage. I sometimes place the paints I am about to use on top of the compressor as its vibrations agitate the paint inside the bottles
More great info. Storing upside down sounds like a really good idea. As far as cleaning, I am a freak about it on all of my paints. Crusty threads and caps drive me nuts. I always wipe the nozzles clean on Vallejo style bottles and use a Q-Tip/cotton bud to clean the inside of the lid.
Thanks for posting this. I've been struggling to get consistent results with VMA, especially when changing needle/tip sizes. As soon as you mentioned your analysis of the problem, I remembered reading an article in the 1980s about the 'new' acrylic paints. The article specifically said not to shake acrylics, as they will start to dry on the surface of the air bubbles that shaking causes. I, too, put an 8-32 stainless nut in the bottles.
Thanks, Chris and I'm glad it was helpful.
Since this video, I have avoided the Vallejo Model Air paints for airbrush use due to ongoing problems. I use them for brush painting because they are pre-thinned.
That said, however, I am getting ready to start a kit that I am going to try Model Air on again. I have found some useful advice here and there, and water-based acrylics would best considering I have grandkids around quite a bit!
@@BrettG64 Wait, so are you now saying that your solution doesn't actually fix the issue? 0_o
@@Loneman_OG it does seem to work, but for most of the stuff I do, like mottling on German aircraft and camo schemes on armor, I use solvent type acrylics, i.e., Tamiya or Mr Hobby Aqueous... however, I just got some new bottles of Vallejo Model Air in that I will be using for my next build! I am trying to get away from solvent based paints as much as possible and I have learned some new things that should make spraying Vallejo paints work much better for my type of painting.
Stay tuned!
@@BrettG64 That's excellent, then.
PS. I was about to say I'll look out for your next build after I've checked out your previous work/uploads...
*clicks on homepage...
Ermahgerd! 533 videos, it may be a while before I get to see your latest creation, lol.
Er, I may have to cherry-pick what I get to watch. :O
@@Loneman_OG cherry picking is a great idea! LAL
Hi I tried a bowl of hot water, I was worried that would melt the bottles but they survived ! And the paint went from feeling so thick when shaken in the cold bottle to absolutely feeling so thin when shaken it was about a milky watery feeling in the bottle! It definitely thinned the paint back to probably when tested and filled in factory! I used to do this with car spray paints for repairs and it has worked! If you want to try this way sometime yourself!?
I have heard about the hot water trick, but never tried it myself.
It feels like I’ve got the same issues. I think now that I’ll have to try this method.
Hopefully it works... let me know.
incredible that your video is 7 years old and this is still an issue, i am here looking for answers after i trashed my almost finish bf109, and i almost had a stroke when you grabed your vallejo paint and showed it to us as it is the same paint i had problems with, after a while i felt like if you were taunting me with that demonic paint bottle
2 words "FLOW IMPROVER" Vallejo have a product called airbrush flow improver its liquid gold I spray Vallejo model colour through my iwata hpc+ Regularly No issues straight from the bottle 2-3 drops first add your paint then couple drops of water I don't ever use model air and if you want a indicator strip just cut the barcode of with a knife
How'd this work out for ya Brett? I was gonna suggest not mixing the paint in the bottle, but in a separate container, that way maybe eliminate the shaking/dried paint chip issue? I always mix my paint out of the bottle, but I only use Tamiya which doesn't seem to have this issue. Even when paint brushing, I never use the paint from the bottle because the pigment eventually dries and changes the consistency of the paint. A lot of good ideas here, maybe just find what works for ya?
Bingo on the Tamiya paint, hence my switch to it. I always remove paint from the container to paint... never use from the bottle/jar for the very reasons you mention.
Vallejo, MIG, etc., is the exception. The whole dropper type bottle is supposed to be one of their selling points. I just find that that type of paint is just not conducive to my style of painting I guess. For me Tamiya is pretty fool proof. It's forgiving for lengthy paint sessions, thins the way I want, and I have never had a clog or a chunk come flying out.
Each time I use my new Vallejo Model color paints ( thinned with Vallejo Thinner Medium ir Vallejo airbrush thinner) the paint flakes or scrapes off easily when fully dried. I think it has to do with the paint not being fully mixed by shaking the bottles. Like you I like the squirt bottle style bottle but do not like how there is no good way to fully mix the paint easily like a regular bottle. I think what I’ll do is to add an agitator to the bottles like you to fully mix the paints. Hopefully when we’ll mixed the paints will perform better and not flake off and peel off easily .
Since doing this video, I have switched to using Tamiya for all of my spraying needs and using the Vallejo Model Air for brush painting smaller parts. Afte struggling with the Model Air for so long, I decided to avoid the frustraion altogether. There are lots of people who get very good results with Model Air, but I just can't. I have a feeling part of it has to do with the climate I live in.
I may give water based acrylics a try again, but it most likely won't be Model Air.
Please comment again and let me know how it works out!
Thanks Brett
Tamiya has been my long time go-to paint for everything. It is reliable and easy to work with. It’s too bad that I bought 20 Vallejo paints thinking I’ve found a new paint to add to the “tool box”. I am buying more Mr Hobby paints to supplement my Tamiya though. Thanks.
i add a couple drops of thinner and flow improver...applies great but the paint has a somewhat weak adhesion and i have noticed quite a bit of paint rubbing off while handling parts....I am hoping i can figure out how to make it stick better. I use badgers stynylrez primer and the paint still doestn like to adhere.
Yessir, Mr Whiz. All this time later and I've yet to make it fool proof. I quit using it for quite a while then started up again. Now I'm back to not using it much. I like the colors and the lack of offensive/toxic fumes, and the colors are nice. But they just don't fit in with the style of modeling/painting I do. They are just too finicky.
Hey man. Great video. I've had trouble with some of my Vallejo paints in the past and emailed them about it. They were very helpful, you should give it a try. I'm not gonna say how they were helpful, you'll have to just try it yourself!
Blake Piercy dumb and useless comment
How about a magnetic vortex spinner? Drop the spinner into the bottle then sit it on the plate and let the magnet mix it up for you?
Hi Brett,
Thanks for sharing - very informative.
I would like to ask why you do not just stick with Model Master? They cover every shade / colour imaginable and as you say are supposed to be super consistent.
I live in Europe and find them impossible to get hold of, otherwise I would stock up for sure. For me - good old Tamiya never gives a problem, EVER. And once you get the hang of thinning Revel Aqua, they are also gorgeous to use and are so under-rated. I have been tempted on many occasions to try Vallejo - but I keep hearing about issues and problems...
For my two cents, I would also suggest that your airbrush needle/nozzle size is far more important even than air pressure. I would suggest 0.35 (Iwata) or 0.4 mm (H&S) is the minimum size you really want to use with these sort of paints.
Best regards,
Michael
+Michael B Thanks for the comments. As for not using the Model Master exclusively, it is partially due to my local supplier not having the full line. Hence, colors I need are not always available. Next, I want to at least use up the Vallejo paint I have. Once it is used up I may stick to Model master Acryls for sheer convenience, since I can buy it locally, mostly.
The reason I have never used Tamiya is because of the odors. I sparay inside the house and I can't have toxic fumes floating about the house.
For needle size, I use .35 mostly. For a finer line, like on aircraft for instance, I use a 2.5, but am finding I can do pretty good with the .35. For sheer volume with paint or primer, I use my single action Paasche with a .5
Again, thanks for the comments. That is why I post these videos.
Hello Brett G, just discovered you and liked your Vallejo Model Air video. I like using their primers on model cars and figures. They come in bigger bottles 60 ml. as opposed to Model Color or Air at 17 ml. The primers can be brushed or sprayed straight from the bottle. So the bottle being bigger means it lasts longer which means it gets opened and closed a lot, which in turn causes trapped air to cure some paint and problem created. Your video now confirms that. I too use the added stainless nut agitator. When the bottle was fresh, no grief from my air brush, when not fresh I was getting clogs. Used some Vallejo thinners but not the cure.
So what I found was using a tea ball strainer. I place my air brush in its holder, position the strainer above the air brush bowl and add my paint and find crap in the strainer and no grief from the air brush in flow. Hope this may help others.
Question, what tip size and make is your air brush ?
Cheers Eh!
+Gordon Enquist thanks for the tip. I had thought of straining the paint, but couldn't think of a way to do it, but the tea ball strainer sounds perfect. The hardware/general store a couple of blocks from me has them, so next time I am there I am going to grab one.
Strain your paint through toking pipe screens. You know you have some somewhere...
@@jhs8496interesting, the screens I've seen are very fine. Are you sure the paint will flow thru it without the effort of having to push it thru?
Well now that video explains a lot! I to have had similar problems Vallejo paints as you said and tried different ways to solve spraying problems only to go back to using Humbrol or Model Master enamels. By the way ,thank you for subscribing to my humble channel and if you noticed I to have a 1/25 scale Tiger in the second video which needs some weathering but my problem is the decal sheet is kaput! Where can I get a new sheet from? P.S. Guess where I'm stopping tomorrow after work!!
+bob ahnert Well, reversely, i'm in the verge of converting from Humbrol enamels to the Vallejo Model Air's, just because of the stink i can't control. Lacquer smell disturbs my parents more than it does me and despite using a spray booth directly mounted on to my room's windows with a 15-Cm aspirator, it doesnt suck enough to keep my workarea clean..
Thanks for the tips man. I haven't had any problems with Vallejo yet, I buy the individual paints and they sell pretty quickly at my hobby shop that may be why. But if I do have any problems I'll definitely give this a try. Thanks again man.
Great tip Brett G! This solved my clogging problems with both model air and (thinned) model color! Thank you.
Nice! Glad to hear it.
Thanks Brett, the stainless nut in the paint seems to have worked for me. .
Excellent! I'm glad it was helpful.
This video is placing my mind at ease. I am having troubles with Model Air 231 that comes in the NATO Armour Colors set #78.413. I'm sticking with it, but I have no idea how old it is, how it was stored or shipped, or what medium it was mixed with. I also love the finish that the paint provides and I don't mind learning my paints; however, I have become suspicious that this one is just a goober. I'll give it a few more chances and get a different bottle when I run out. Thanks!
No problem, Jerry. For what its worth, I never have been able to get Vallejo to work. If I am doing something really quick and small, it works out ok. But for larger projects, and especially camo work that takes more time, its a no-go for me. Plenty of people get it to work just fine, but for me, it doesn't work.
Please let me know how it works out for you!
Brett, I'm new to airbrush painting and not doing really detailed work. I need consistent coverage on medium to small parts. What tip, pressure and paint do you recommend? I'm working with nothing but metallics. Thanks!
Most of my work is done with an Iwata HP-M2 single action brush with a .4 tip. I use it for most primer work and base layer paint. I usually spray at 15-16 psi. As for paint I have switched almost exclusively to lacquer based acrylics like MRP and SMS. Those are sprayed straight from the bottle since they are very thin to begin with. I do use Tamiya and Mr Color and Mr Hobby colors occasionally but thinning can vary depending on what I'm doing. If I am wanting a really opaque layer I will go 50/50 paint and Mr Leveling Thinner and adjust from there.
Keep an eye peeled on my channel because I'm going to do a paint video real soon.
@@BrettG64 Thank you for the valuable information. I built a spray booth with exhaust the past few days, going to give it a go tomorrow, using your tips. /respect
Thanks for the video! I love Vallejo bottles but am so frustrated with constant clogging and really inconsistent results from colour to colour. What psi do you usually use? I've tried 15 to 25 and still can't get the hang of it and I'm constantly getting either grainy paint or just thin with spider legs everywhere. Frustrating! Cheers!
Frustrating indeed. So frustrating, that I have switched to using Tamiya paints prety much exclusively for airbrush work. Much easier to thin, sparay and clean up. I tried everything with Vallejo and it just doesn't suit my ways of spraying I guess. I use Vallejo Model Air and Model Color for brush painting only now. Sorry I didn't have a better answer.
@@BrettG64 Thanks Brett, I'll thinking of doing the same thing. Do you mind me asking, what thinning ratio and psi you would recommend for spraying Tamiya? Thanks again! Dan
@@spruetherapy generally, I do 50/50 paint to thinner. As for psi, I am usually about 15 or 16. If I am doing close in work I sometimes go as low as 12, but that's rare. 50/50 paint thinner and 15 or 16 psi for most of my painting.
For upclose camo, I sometimes do more like 75% thinner and 25% paint, but that is for camo mottling on German aircrafft.
I hadn't thought about how i shook the bottles untill i watched this vid but from the very beginning i have always held the bottle by the lid n shook it side to side and in a swirling motion, ive never had a problem spraying through my airbrush which is a 0.2 ml except for white
Thanks buddy for sharing this video - a great tip, cheers
Glad I could help, Liam!
@Brett G Brett, after discovering this trick with mixing for model air paints, are you shooting them straight out of the bottle now? Or are you still finding that you need to use thinners and/or flow improvers to get a good result? (And if so what ratios do you recommend). Also, are you shooting the model air at between 15-20psi? Or are you using a different pressure? Thanks!
Hi, Tyler! I don't use thinner, but I do use flow improver. I think it is one to two drops flow improver to 10 drops of paint. Helps a ton with tip dry, since I live in a dry climate with really hot temps in the summer and fairly mild temps in the winter (73 F here today as a matter of fact!)
And for most of the paints I use for general spraying I run about 15 or 16 PSI. I do thin my paints a bit and run lower PSI for spraying mottling like one would see on German aircraft from WWII, or freehand camo schemes on armor.
@@BrettG64 thank you very much for the response!
I read that one young lady took a paperclip, straightened it out, created a small hook at the bottom and used her Dremmel on low speed to mix her cheap Walmart Apple Barrel paint. I will try this with my paints. food for thought
Forgot to thank you for this tip... it does work!
Thanks, useful information. I'd noticed the foaming before, and usually wait a couple of minutes for it to relax before spraying.
The retarder is a strange gel, so very difficult to get out of the dropper bottle once it's partially used. It's also awkward to judge the ratio when only using a small amount of paint for details. If I can spray straight from the bottle, it will make painting much less hassle.
I too have found the wet cotton bud an essential tool when spraying, particularly if I'm using quite a low flow to do, for example, freehand mottle camouflage.
So glad I came across this video. Thanks for the information! I hope I will have the same results.
Good luck Cody. Should be fine.
I stopped to watch the video at 2 minutes as soon I figured that Vallejo air can NOT be used straight from the bottle. I do modeling for over 40 years but only started to use airbrushes 10 years ago and had a few different models since then. Unfortunately I never managed do have a good time with them because thin paints is a very challenging part of the process for me. The worse scenario is when I use too little thinner and the thick mix clogs the airbrush forcing me to disassemble it and clean everything. I use enamels but have tried a couple different acrylics too. Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was SO frustrated that I sold my airbrush and compressor. A couple days later (nope, I didn't regret) I was talking to a friend when he mentioned 'Vallejo air' as being a very easy to use paint to be used straight from the bottle - and that supposed to be a solution for my problems. However I didn't long too much to find this clarifier video that tells all the truth so I won't even waste my time trying it (and frustrating myself one more time). I know that some will tell that I should have watched the video till the end to see the proposed "fix" but honestly I am not interested to fix a product that supposed to work as it is advertised. Thanks for the video, Brett!
Yan, thanks for the comments.
I totally agree with you on the frustration with Vallejo paints. There are many, many people that use them with great results... unfortunately I am not one of them. Since I posted this video I have moved on to other paints to use in my airbrush. I still use Vallejo Model Color and Model Air but mostly for brush painting. It works just fine for that.
My frustration is similar to yours. I like to be able to use stuff straight from the bottle, with the only exception of maybe using a bit of thinner. But as for "flow improvers" and "retarders" and whatnot, I don't want to have to practice chemistry lessons to use something.
I plan on doing a follow up video to this soon to discuss my thought further now that it has been a while since I did this video.
Late to the show but Vallejo paints clog my Iwata AB straight to Hell. I reverted back to using Tamiya paints.
Thanks for chiming in Christopher. I think I finally got Vallejo figured
out, but after recently switching to Tamiya, I have to say I am much
happier. Total consistency from jar to jar, unlike the Vallejo paints.
I still really like Vallejo for brush painting, but am pretty much going to Tamiya exclusively for airbrush.
Brett G I thin the Tamiya paints by adding enough thinner to around the second thread of the jar and it shoots smoothly at 12 PSI. I have had to use the Tamiya retarder for longer projects though to stop it from drying almost as soon as it hits the Panzer's surface. I believe also that part of the Vallejo paint problems is the high quality and thickness of the pigments. The small washer is a great idea and I shall be trying that. I have been cutting a piece of sprue and stirring it but I don't think it works that great due to the way the bottles are made. Great video and thanks for the reply.
Christopher Scott no problem. I think a nut, bearing, or whatever works better than a piece or sprue as some have suggested. metal will have a bit more weight to it, which should help a bit with it breaking free of the pigments in the bottom of the bottle so it can do its job of mixing everything up.
Good tip, i am going to do it the next time using my airbrush. Thanks very much. Ton from the Netherlands
Glad it was some help.
Hey Brett, this is a life saver. How did you find the finish? I just got some VGA last night and have a rubbery finish.
I'm gonna go buy a sh*t ton of nuts today!
Yeah, the finish is kind of rubbery. It really is more of a skin than paint. I have said before that I am going to do an update to this video with some final conclusions of sorts. I have found that if it is anywhere near hot and or dry around here, I can forget using this paint. It skins over really quick in the cup and clogs like crazy.
If you will notice this video was done in January when it is much cooler here, and the paint work quite a bit better.
It is a shame because the colors are pretty good, and the final finish is pretty nice. Very smooth but takes weather and decals quite well.
The nuts do help a bunch too. Mixes it way better.
Thanks. I'm in central Canada, on the prairies, so we range from Mordor level to heat in the summer to freeze-the-snot-in-your-nose cold in the winter. Still, my paint area usually is around 15c, humidity obviously varies.
I'll try mixing this paint up and see. Worst case scenario the big fancy Game Air set I got was a gift so I'm not out anything other than a bit of initial excitement. I noticed after giving Black a vigorous shake (against your recommendation but sans agitator) it seemed to dry a bit better with a far less tacky/rubbery finish.
Hey Brett. Did you consider using tiny little plain stainless steel balls ?
And another (and more important) question is; is Model Air as durable as enamels ? I mean, it can't be due to its chemistry at all, but i just dont want my paintwork to be peeled away with a tamiya tape during removing the masking tapes or blu-tacs.
+Slammer I haven't tried the balls, just the nuts. Since I changed my
mixing method I haven't had any of the stringy, chunky paint problems. I
think that was the real culprit. Well, that and inconsistent paint
viscosity. As far as durability, I have had no trouble with Tamiya tape
of regular painters masking tape, or blue tack. I have primed with
Tamiya primer and Vallejo primer, then painted with either Vallejo or
Model Master Acryls and no peeling happened with tape removal. I have
also used the Vallejo primers in German colors by itself and no problems
with it either.
+Brett Grogan Thanks for the answer! I've tried spraying Model Color yesterday. I've experimented with both their own AB Thinner, tap water and diluted water. All of them tend to peel off with the force of a tape. But deliberately, i've tried this after an hour of applying. What's the best curing time for Vallejo's according to your observations ?
+Slammer No problem. I actually spray Model Air, not Model Color, so I don't know if that is a factor or not. Generally, I don't tape or anything until the following day. This evening I will be working on a plane that has had tape on it for about four months. Will be interesting to see what happens when I peel that off.
SO THIS IS MY PROBLEM! Loved Vallejo but the colors are pretty opaque and it just won't spray a good quantity, I almost trashed my brush but I guess it's the paint
EZ, there are lots of people that get great results with this stuff, but so far it is very hit and miss for me. Shane Smyth (he has a great YT Channel) gets good results and he recommended using their flow improver. I have started experimenting with it and plan to do a follow up to this one with my findings.
It does seem to help, but I think climate has a lot to do with it. Once the hot weather hits and I do some more experimentation I will have a better idea.
I got the Russian patriotic vallijo air paints and only the nato black out the whole lot sprays directly from the bottle so need to go get thinners today as couldn't use them last nyt not even water worked! So had to switch back to enamels to finish a paint job off! They sprayed no problem once thinned abit with enamel thinner but don't think enamel thinner works with acrylic never tried it so away to get airbrush thinner just now to see if that'll be any better! Paying out for these paints ain't cheap really and the claim is what sold me really! Ready out the bottle! Your totally correct about every bottle being different thickness! I really don't like them with my first experience with them but I will give them another try as seem to be the best according to others but really I think to myself when do I ever listen to anyone else's claims without trying them myself! And out the bottle needs to be looked at again there definitely not!
Hello, Scottish Bonsai! I have heard about the hot water thing, but never trie it. I don't want to have to do much every time I paint. Its a bummer that I can't get them to work, because I do like their color range for the most part and the finish is nice. In the end, I gave most of mine to a friend that likes them. I kept a few colors that I use for brush painting, though.
Let me know if you finally get them to work.
Thanks for the tip but i think i shall stick with Gunze and Tamiya paints. Not had any probs so far spraying at 25psi and a 50/50 mix paint and thinner.
Thanks for the comment Mark, and oddly enough, I have switched almost exclusively to Tamiya paints. After messing with Vallejo and the other water based acrylics, I have determined they are too much hassle for me.
I plan to do a follow up video to this one stating my decisions on paint and why.
nice tip and worth a try :) 1 question: what air pressure did you use for the model air? 15 psi?
+paulusm07 Thanks. And I knew I was forgetting something! For general spraying I use 15 psi out of a Co2 cylinder. For camo spraying/ up-close work I turn it down to 10 psi.
+Brett G thx :) i am also still trying to get the best result with my AB and model air. today was hell. so will try this tip and shaking :)
i thin valejo paints with their cleaner. THE PAINT FLOWS BETTER!
I've had the opposite experience with Model Master.. about 50% failure - needing extensive thinking - and then having adhesion problems.
Limited experience with Model Air, but the one bottle I used worked flawlessly
.
As you were shaking the hell out of it and said "and what this does..." I said out loud.. "BUBBLES!" Makes total sense. I just made the decision to use this product line and I am glad I stumbled upon this video. Do you think the right angles/sharp edges on the nut are actually scraping the partially cured paint, where a small bearing would not??
.
Agreed! Stocked up with Vallejo model air, and I'm having to clean the brush every 5-minutes because it clogs and splatters. Very disappointed because of all the hype they're given by the 'experts'.
I did the same thing Russell. Buying sets of paint and regretting it. However, I have figured out how to work with the Vallejo paints, and for some jobs they are perfectly fine. The tip dry and all the frustration that goes with it is really frustrating though. I would never think of painting fine mottling on a Luftwaffe airplane with the Vallejo. I have done it once and it was an exercise in frustration. That type of painting is why I have added Tamiya paint to my store of supplies.
Aha! Hopefully doing this will help a bottle of Vallejo Model Air Metallic artic blue which I'm struggling with!
Let me know how it works.
Great tip, I'm going to try it your way. I belive you might have solved it. Great job.
Thank you Brett for all your tips.
I am new to modeling and I have purchased Model paints. I have brand new paints that I have used, some work like they are advertised, but there others that are so thick that agitators will not move in the bottle, in some of them the agitator sat on top of paint and sloowly sank; some of them had completely dry paint at the top.
I am still trying figure out how to fix this problem. I do thank you for the advise.
What brand of paints did you get?
It is Model Color. I got it in set of 16, It was a military set ( I think it a WWII military colors set), and every one of them is the same viscosity, extremely thick.@@BrettG64
I gave up on using it for airbrushing , but I like it when I need to brush paint
I am with you, Sean. That is exactly what I've done. Brush paints great, but for spraying, I'll stick with Tamiya.
Just bought some Vallejo model air. What size nut do you use? Thanks for the way for me to avoid problems!
I think it is a 6/32 nut, stainless steel. Anything small will work, just make sure it is stainless steel so it won't rust.
regardless of the paint I use I have a reqlly right weave screen I strain my paint through as I pour it into my airbrush cup... since I started doing that no more clogged airbrush
Interesting video but could of been done in just ten minutes. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.
Thanks for the comment, and time is one of the elements of my videos I am trying to work on. I can be long winded at times...
Nunsweepit421 a
A piece of thick copper wire works well as a stirring stick
That's a good idea. I will try it on my Model Air colors.
It's a shame they don't shoot straight from the bottle. Some bottles work great and yet others need some thinning, so consistency is variable for sure. Interesting vid and discussion
I know createx say to let their paint rest for 15 minutes before using. Maybe it might help
Thanks for the tip, Carl. I have moved on from the water-based acrylics to lacquer-based acrylics since making this video. I am now fortunate to have a better room to build/paint with great ventilation and a decent extractor so the smells associated with lacquers are no longer an issue. For me the lacquers are much easier to use and clean up.
No problems so far for me with vallejo air
Don't use thinner or what so ever
But a usefull tip for those with the problems you had.
Thanks, rene. I have pretty much hashed out all of the problems I had,
and it sprays pretty well for me now right out of the bottle. For longer
jobs though, I still get some tip dry, but that seems to be
unavoidable.
Thank you for a very informative video. How about modifying a Badger Paint Stirrer to make sure the agitator tip of the stirrer fits into the neck of the Model Air bottle? Then you don't need to shake or stir or use any agitator in the bottle. The Paint Stirrer is about $10.
Thanks for the comment Jay. I have actually seen a video where a guy does that very thing. He cut the tip off the agitator, and epoxied a small paddle on the end, sized to fit in the neck of the bottle. It looked like it worked pretty good.
Great video and even better name! Lol, have recently started to paint my Gundam models and am having slightly different issues with the VMA paint and will try your suggestion. Getting much better results with my Tamiya right now though. Lays down so much better, but perhaps mixing better will help. Thanks again.
+brett nelson howdy Brett. And I agree... awesome name. I would try Tamiya, but the fume thing keeps me limited. As far as mixing, I think the agitator in the bottle with a side to side swishing/swirling motion instead of a violent up and down shake.
I have a decent spray booth so fumes aren't a big issue. Will definitely try your technique with the Vallejo
Sweet bike saying in the background, SE racing? And thanks for the tips, the washer mixing ball is genius.
Thanks, Matthew. Yessir, SE Racing BMX Innovations. Rode for them in the '80s and still have some SE BMX bikes, including the one I raced back then.
Glad the video helped. I don't know whay all paint companies don't put mixing balls in their containers. Its a big help. Fortunately, many are starting to.
@@BrettG64 word, I was a skating back then. Had a part in the first world industries video rubbish heap. Shot by spike 👊
@@matthewwood5203 WOW! Nice. I was skating back then too. As a matter of fact I still have my G&S Neil Blender. Still ride it a bit.
@@BrettG64 I moved to the mountains decades ago. Powder is easier on the body than concrete 😉 splitboarding is my jam. I just sprayed some insignia white following your directions. Flawless, although I still have to thin 15-20%. Altitude maybe🤔, I live at 8K.
I'm going to try and heat in abit on the radiator like I do with spray cans to get a thinner coat and non orange peel!? Got to try something I'm like you, why claim it's ready out the bottle if it's not! Must be something more to.the paint mixture
Just don't melt the bottle! LAL.
I think you nailed the problem
Oh sorry my Nato black is the other one that is gloopy and needs to be thinned out the bottle shaken not stirred haha! But yeh brand new box unless sat for along time in the shop!
And there you go. My NATO Black was one of the good ones! Inconsistent viscosity throught the bottles regardless if its the same color. I think it may be a shelf life thing. They just get thicker as they sit.
Hi thanks for sharing the tips very helpful. I recently started into this and trying to learn. I don't have an air brush so I am using brush for painting and priming the figures. I'm using Vallejo grey primer and then paint the figures using Vallejo colors.
But the problem is the paint is chipping off when rubbed the figures with fingers. Any suggestions?.
Thanks.
Hi, Phani. Do you use primer on your figures before painting? If not you might give that a try. It will help the paint stick better. Also, the paint needs to cure really well.
Do you use any additives in your paint?
@@BrettG64 Hi Brett thanks for replying. Yes I do prime them using Vallejo grey primer using brush. I am painting HO(1/87) scale figures. If I rub them using nails the paint is going off easily.
That's a bummer. Vallejo paint is soft, even when dry, so being that the figures are tthat small, the detail is finer and easier to rub off, I guess. That's really the only thing I can think of.
Unlike enamels, or laquers, water based acrylics, like Vallejo, don't really "bite" into the plastic. They basically create a skin of color over the object. I am sure that has something to do with the fragility.
Have you tried using a clear coat of some kind after painting to help make them a bit more durable?
@@BrettG64 hi Brett, yeah I have tried Vallejo varnish as well. Not sure but I feel I'm missing something, should I need to apply multiple coats of primer and varnish?
Hmm... I wouldn't think so. Maybe try a different varnish? What kind are you using now?
I don't think you are supposed to hold the bottles vertically when rolling them.
Thanks, gonna give it a try on my T-90!
Proposed Solution at 14:48
Thanks for the reply and the video!
Very good. Thanks heaps. :D
No problem!
Thanks for the info, I'm just starting with an airbrush.
Richard Blondin excellent. what kind of stuff will you be doing?
Mostly Aircraft, some armor and ships
Ballbearings/BB's work out perfectly
Yes, they do! Funny thing is I usually have ball bearings on hand since I work on bicycles quite a bit, but at the time I did this video I was out! So I had to use what I had on hand. Thanks for the comment.
would it work for a batch that has been inside a closet for maybe 2 years? :P
Alexander Ekholm possibly... wouldn't hurt to try!
i will as soon as i have some small washers or nuts to use as an agitator
the problem isn't the paint, it's how you use them, if you are in a dry climate you will need to add flow improver, or retarder, simply because the air is warmer coming out of the compressor. I have no problems with Vallejo Air in any of my three airbrushes, an Iwata Neo, A Harder & Steinback Infinity, and a Badger
Thanks, Graham. I use a CO2 cylinder for my air source, so the propellent isn't really an issue.
Since this video was made, I have tried all of the additives at one time or another, but still suffer quite a bit of problems. If I am spraying a single color, like a basecoat, I can generally get it to work fine. But, if I am doing a longer lasting project like a camo job or something, that is when the problems begin.
At this point I have pretty much switched over to Tamiya paints for almost all of my spray needs. No tip dry. No clogs. No skinning over in the color cup. In the future, I may mess with them Vallejo again as an airbrush paint, but for now, I will continue to use them as brush paints.
The biggest bummer is, I like their actual colors and I like the finish they provide.
Thanks for the comments!
Do you use the Tamiya airbrush color with thinner and at what ratio? Thank you!
I don't use any fixed ratios. It depends on what I am painting. If I am doing a base coat of, say, olive drab, I'll do it about 50/50 with my PSI set at around 16 to 18. If I am spraying camo colors that I was to build up slowly and don't want to pool up, I'll use a thinner mixture... maybe 60% to 70% thinner and set my pressure to about 12 PSI.
Thank you for the quick answer!
Good info, thanks for the tips
hiya mate good vid there on the vallejo air, yeah it can be hit or miss with these paints but i found that using tamiyas X20A thinner improved the performance all round and it mixes very well and doesn't clog your needle as much but ,also if ur using adjitators make sure u buy the marine grade as they will not rust in ur bottles over time kutgw :L)
Thanks. Funny thing is, after I got my new airbrush, I haven't had any problems with any of my paints, printing ers, or clears.... all acrylic. So, I think it was a combo of airbrush and the problems I discuss in the video.
And yes, marine grade stainless steel is the way to go.
neh. don't waste your time searching for marine grade (316). regular old 304l stainless is all good.
Phazzer- 758 So the Tamiya thinner...which is basically 50/50 mix of alcohol and distilled water will work with Vallejo paints? I thought about trying it, as I use the Tamiya paints primarily.
Interesting video ! Iv just bought a brand new set of vallijo air paints for my IL2 m3 flying tank kit and most are ok but the black and the dark shade camo green is gloopy and think and splutters when spraying it just about ruined the build! Managed to do a gradient in to the the lighter sandy shade n saved it but disappointing! First got with vallijo Air paints aswell not a great start for a new product on my behalf trying out! Now I probably would have something to say on the out the bottle claim! Some are but always buy an airbrush thinner with them.if don't have any in your airbrushing item's!
Good luck with them and let me know if you can get them to work.
@@BrettG64 yes it worked just like the way I used to heat up the spray tins years ago to stop the orange peel, but I'm just using a couple of drops of thinner now saved alot of arsing about
Could it be you live in a really hot or humid area of the US. That might cause you a lot of issues.
I think that is a really big factor in my experience with this paint. I have long since stopped using water-based acrylics due to the fact that I have a spray booth and great ventilation.
Nice video and good info. Think it could be improved by not taking so much time to get to the point. Time is precious!
thanks.
Thanks for the tip！
You're welcome!
I have found a lot of my Vallejo paints have gunk in the nozzle, brand new! And I have almost 100 bottles. Smh
Not surprising. One of the many reasons I stopped using them.
Sweet! I just started airbrushing had I just bought a couple bottles of Vallejo paints. They didn't have the Model Air, just the Model Colors, but even though they're different as far as one being airbrush ready, I'm not going to shake the bottles in the typical up and down motion, but the way you did it. And believe me, shaking it up and down in the typical way is how I would've done it. Would I have had any problems? I don't know, but I'm not going to experiment with it to find out. I've got enough things just learning how to airbrush, I don't need to add to it. Anyway, thank you again for you help. Oh, one last thing, no one is ever going to convince ns that rotating the bottle in between the palms of your hand is going to mix that paint up. Any paint. That makes about as much sense as wiping first and then going. LOL!
Best wishes,
Michael Truhett
U.S.C.G. Veteran
Semper Paratus 🇺🇸
Michael Truhett I totally agree on their mixing method. was just thinking of it last night as a matter of fact. and I have found the best thing to thin their paints including model color is the vallejo airbrush thinner. if you don't have it locally order online.
water will work but not very well. where do you get your supplies locally?
I got these first Model Colors at Hobby Lobby, but mostly I get my stuff from the big hobby shop in the city about an hour from me. As for thinning, I'll definitely use their airbrush thinner instead of water. I can use water to clean my brushes, acetone if that doesn't do it completely, but for airbrushing it'll definitely be their thinner. Speaking of, I just sprayed some model Color through my airbrush and not only did it spray beautifully, not one single time did it plug up where I had to use a qtip to clean the needle and nozzle. It sprayed absolutely fantastic from start to finish. I'm very impressed with the Model Colors. So far anyway. I'm just going to buy the colors I need for what project I happen to be doing and eventually I'll have all the Model Colors I need. Anyway, thanks again for your help and tomorrow I'll go get some stainless steel nuts.
Michael Truhett glad I could help and keep me posted on future developments.
The problem with Vallejo is you have to figure out the tricks to use the stuff in your gun. it shouldn't be so complicated. I will stick with Gunze and Tamiya for my guns. Vallejo is great for brushing, but good lord, having to solve the secret of the universe to shoot this stuff just isn't worth it. Tip dry is an issue for me. I know it occurs with all paint, but with Vallejo it's a constant battle.
Kevin E. true stuff. I have pretty much relegated Vallejo to brush painting and large area painting of solid colors. For camo and slower more complicated paint jobs it has become tamiya for me.
thanks for tge comments.
Forgive me for not Subbing earlier Brett.
allways store vallejo paints up side down.PS .write the number and place a blob of paint on the bottom.
Thanks for the tip! Hopefully it will help someone... I have moved to different paints meself. But If I try them again I will keep this in mind.
Get a good stailessballdearing to shake with it’s heaviier
It is still painful to wash av paint off your airbrush. The only solution is to use flow improver.
Thanks, Kitten. I have since stopped using Vallejo paints in the airbrush. I use it exclusively for brush painting now.
Brett G yeah since this video is kinda old.. really it was a big headache 4 years back before flow improver was out
I would highly suggest not using those nuts as agitators, a piece of plastic sprue from a model kit is much safer. That nut will eventually oxidize and add particulates that can damage the brass and fine tips of needles in your airbrush over time.
the nut is stainless steel, dude.
That doesn't mean that it wont rust, even if its marine grade it will still rust given time. This is why spray paint cans use ceramic agitators.
anything will rust if given enough years, but that's not why they use ceramic balls. it's because they're cheap and non-sparking.
Got to second this. Unless you are very active and finish the bottle quickly these will rust. After about 6 months break from my hobby I had 30 bottles with rusted nuts and had to trow them away. So we're talking months, not years for stainless nuts.
get some volcanic rock balls from ebay
I invested in a 10 dollar nail polish agitator and just put the bottle in it with a ballbearing for about 1 minute
IMHO the best thing you can do with Model Air is throw it straight into the bin. Or better still, don't waste money buying it in the first place. If you can get past the horrendous needle tip drying, it sprays nice enough, but if you so much as look at it funny it falls back off again, doesn't tolerate masking and worst of all - if you do knock some off and/or pull it up - it doesn't sand, so forget feathering in and touching up. Instead of trying to "work around" it's many, many shortcomings, either just "accept" them or go seek something better.
Whenever I've tried Acrylic paints, I always find myself repeating over and over "I never used to have these problems with enamels, I never used to have these problems with enamels, ......." Just saying.
Thanks for the comments, Dave. I fully agree with you. This video is pretty old now and I have long since seen the error of my ways. I have fully changed over to Tamiya acrylics and been using them exclusively for quite some time now and have absolutely zero problems with them.
I have since given away almost all of the Model Air except for the ones I brush paint details with... at least they are good for that.
Thanks again for chiming in.
I think your right
.
No acrylic paint on the market separates more than Vallejo, that is just what they do.
I absolutely love the vallejo colours, they are about the most beautiful colours i've ever used in my life. But every metallic colour even if i thinn then to the extreme clogg my airbrush in matter of secons so that i can only spray them with far to high psi. which workes i guess but i can't paint any deatails with it.
+Aaron Terell Are you using the Model Air line or Model Color? I have been able to spray Model Air metallics straight from the bottle with no problems (so far.)
Brett G the model game air. It clogs so fast it's not even funy anymore. The non metalic colores work rather well if thinned a littlw but the metalic ones. I even bought a second batch to check. In particular it are the colors gold and gunmetal that cause my problems. I can only brush these with high pressure as 40 psi. Otherwise they won't eveny spray a little.