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Your theory about the cyberking looking the way it is due to the fact of limited tech is true as if you look into the Doctor Who expanded media cyberkings look drastically different. For example the 2016 comic supremacy of the Cybermen.
It's a blink and you'll miss it moment, but the Cyber King not being remembered is briefly explained in Flesh and Stone as the memories being lost to The Crack.
@@MaxAutoAttack Well, London was invaded by dinosaurs in the 70s and RTD ignored. In fact, RTD era feel so distant to the classic series. Even Sarah Jane feel so diferent to the original Sarah.
@@mayotango1317 as a new who fan I gotta say I’d have no idea who Sarah Jane is without their portrayal of her. It may be not your ideal situation but it’s still better than Sarah Jane facing the same issue so many other companions do and fall into obscurity
I personally would've liked to see David Morrissey be an actual incarnation of the Doctor like how he thought he was as Jackson Lake. And while I may be disappointed that such a thing didn't come to pass, I'll always fondly hold the concept in my head of David Morrissey being the actual Doctor, because he was just that good at it for me.
I like to imagine that the 'no second chances' line in 'The Christmas Invasion' is in there for good reason. As soon as he sees Harriet Jones attack the Sycorax he realises that second chance are important thus his insistence on always offering them in the future and that 'no second chances' was just a regeneration thing.
I always just assumed the 'first' chance is him offering them the opportunity to back down and receive his help, but then they don't get a second chance if they turn that down, he'll do whatever is necessary to stop them. That way it's consistent with most of his behaviour throughout his era and even makes more sense in the Christmas Invasion as when he says the line he's literally just given the Sycorax leader the opportunity to live (first chance) but then kills him when he doesn't leave in peace (no second chance). I don't really see any problem with that line and the way he behaves in later episodes.
@@Fff99901 Yes that's exactly what it means. I don't know why people misunderstand that phrase to mean Ten will immediately start killing everyone. People just looking for issues that aren't there purely out of boredom.
The scene where Hartigan gets converted has always been so funny to me. But in a way that makes me genuinely adore it for how silly it is. There's the "That was designated a lie" line of course, but there's also Hartigan asking "Who will become the Cyberking" and the Cyberleader sloooooowly turning to look at her, just to let HER figure it out. Then she's like "Have you no pity?" and the camera does a dramatic zoom in on the Cyberleader's face, just for it to say "...correct!" It's so good. Like, what did she THINK it was going to say?
Also, it was nice to see them give a female antagonist the same treatment that male megalomaniac's get in this show. Not something the studio's feel they have the right to do anymore. After RTD's era she would have ended up becoming the sympathetic 11th hour hero villain and saving the day after she realized she just needed to love someone, anyone.
@@noneya3635 yeah honestly I feel like they're trying not to be sexist but they swung too far in the other direction 💀💀 we need some more female villains that are just straight up juicy even villains imo
This special isn’t the best, but Jackson Lake is top-teir, i always wished he was shown in the farewell montage in End of Time (even with him being an admittedly small character)
I also really love the scene at the end when Jackson stands on the lamp post and tells all the people about the Doctor and he is so giddy and in awe. He may not be the Doctor anymore but Jackson had just a taste of what it feels like to be The Doctor and saw how wonderful and magical they are and then has everyone give the Doctor a round of applause and loads of cheers. That scene always gives me happy feels. Makes me smile. and Jackson calling the TARDIS wonderful nonsense is the best description ever.
Its a shame that David Morrissey's Doctor and Toby Jones' Dream Lord are both only for 1 episode. They both are such perfect characters that would have been great to see more of them. Although perhaps that is why they are so great. They are perfect characters that haven't got diluted because they need to keep returning or fill multiple episodes
The structure of "action scene - exposition scene - action scene - character scene" is something I really miss Chibnall just does "exposition scene - exposition scene - character sentence - exposition scene"
I always like when the solution to the cybermen is in humanity and emotion, like Hartigan here overriding the cyber leader and then having her eyes opened by the doctor, the cancelling of the emotional inhibitor chip in the parallel world, or Danny Pink overriding the programming
In season 5 they mention how people always forget the aliens and tie it into the crack in time plotline. the doctor even mentions that nobody remembers the cyberking. That is a later retcon though but i like that they mention it
As time goes on I really really *REALLY* don’t get why Doctor Who seems so set on having no one remember the various alien encounters that happen, it really makes it seem like nothing that happens actually stay a thing that happened. Case in point for me is the destruction of Mondas. In 1986, Mondasian cybermen attempted to siphon the Earth’s energy to revitalize the dying planet of Mondas, but accidentally took too much energy and blew up Mondas in the process. There was a global event that ended up blowing up a planet in *1986,* and no one seems to think aliens exist most of the time. I mean, I do understand why they do that, I just don’t like it in this case or agree with the decision. FYI the reason they do this is the same reason that the Doctor will usually hang out on earth in the same year as when the show is currently airing, to keep things close to our reality in terms of society. We don’t think aliens exist, so neither does earth society within Doctor Who. We never had a Cyber King stomp around London in Victorian times, so no one will bring it up in universe either. Load of corporate horse shit if you ask me, do they think things will be less relatable or something if our comparable present doesn’t meticulously align together to the show? I can’t think of why else they would softcore continually ignore established history/continuity like this.
I feel like this story would be much more loved if the title wasn’t so ‘clickbait-y.’ Maybe if they called it ‘The Other Doctor’ or ‘The Doctor Who Never Was’ it would of been much more liked
Having joined the fandom during Smith’s run I never felt this episode was clickbait-y. But then I wasn’t part of the series when this came out & people were wondering who the next doctor would be. I already knew.
It's one of the most forgettable Tennant stories _ever,_ with some pretty mediocre ideas propping it up. All the same, it is my favourite of the Tennant Christmas episodes. It just has this uncanny charm, it's like no other story of the era. Whilst this is mainly a bad thing (given how consistently good the era is), it makes The Next Doctor feel new on the rare occasion I watch it. I think it's Jackson Lake that keeps me going, wish there has been _less_ of Cyber-centroc focus if anything!
I agree with the bit about Jackson saving his son. It would have been a much better turn of events. The Doctor's great, but he's not the only person capable of being the hero. That's why he has so many companions backing him up in modern Who.
When despite having no emotions... the Cybermen are the sassiest and roast capable Monsters in doctor who. Hey, at least you know that they are made using human parts because of it
I think another important reason people may despise this episode, and call it click bait, is due to the episode airing shortly after David Tennant's grand announcement of his departure from the show at the 2008 National Television Awards, which shook everyone up at the time and even gave me a reason to watch BBC News. We also had the memorable regeneration in the series 4 finale where there Doctor stayed in the same incarnation, which meant it was going to take something big to take down the beloved tenth Doctor.
I think this is a great episode. There's already this vibe at this point in the show that something is coming to an end (meaning the Doctor will be regenerating soon) and having him meet the "Next Doctor" and believe that this is actaully his next incarantion until that plot twist was such a clever idea.
I’d take this over any “New Years Day” specials Chibnall writes. I just wanna sit back in front of the TV with family again and enjoy Doctor Who. New Year’s Day, we couldn’t be more apart
I personally think that this special, while not the best, is still is a pretty decent episode. There is some things that make this episode *EH* but overall, I wouldn’t complain watching it.
I know it was a transition to the sponsor, but how the hell is Jackson lake going to view, let alone make a website? Unless.... Squarespace has compiled so much internet data that they've learned how to time travel.
I always remembered the Cybermen attack in the snow at the funeral and how scary it was. I was never scared of the Cybermen normally but that scene used to always really creep me out. Especially when they emerge from the fog with their stomping feet like monstrous creatures.
I know this'll sound a bit weird but I like seeing the brain on display on the cyber leader. It reminds you this was once a person. Also to me being a leader it's like showing off how much better you are than the common cybermen cause you get to show off your brain. On a weird side note, I'm concerned of the lack of any liquid not surrounding the brain to protect it from any potential damage.
I really liked this episode. The finale with the giant Cyberking was a bit over the top for my taste but the idea of there being a human doctor worked really well for me, I found it way more satisfying and interesting than an actual encounter with the next doctor. Sure, the viewers got kind of tricked but in my opinion it was a really pleasant surprise.
"Why does no one remember the robot that came out of the Thames?" Torchwood: Let us introduce ourselves. We're Torchwood. Jack in Monster Files: So there are accounts of this giant thing that came out of the Thames...
@@mayotango1317 Yeah, that always felt like Moffat pushing the reset button since Davies liked referencing how the public's perception of events was. Especially with the Cybermen and Dalek stories. I mean, this could have been interesting as a way of having characters who feel like they've lived in the Whoniverse but I can see why they want companions to reflect normal humans.
@@christopherbennett5858 Davis did the same with the classic series. I never feel that his London is the same that the Yetis in Underground or dinosaurs in the 70s.
@@mayotango1317 Considering his first few seasons had the main companion living in a council estate, I can see why that may be different from the Pertwee and Baker eras. Davies definitely took a lot of drama cues from Kitchen SInk dramas like Eastenders and a lot of the focus is more on characters than location, aside from Cardiff jabs.
This was the second episode of Doctor Who I ever watched and it was MEGA confusing for me (in a fun way.) The first episode I saw was Vincent and the Doctor with Matt Smith. I just saw it by chance and knew nothing about the show. I liked the episode and I'm like "this was cool I want to check out more of this show." I guess this Christmas special was available for some reason that I don't remember, but I turned it on. Now there was a different guy (David Tenant) saying he was the doctor, and an additional character who is also claiming to be the doctor. Needless to say I was scratching my head and I needed to pause and do a good ten minutes of googling before I realized I wasn't losing my mind. Big fan of the show ever since :)
I do like these specials because it shows the morale of the doctor getting darker and darker over these episodes along with the wedding of sarah jane two parter. Like in this christmas episode he seems to be happy masking his sadness over losing Donna recently. Its kinda like a distraction not wanting to think about what happened before the next episodes change his demeanour. Something i do miss during the Davies era was the connectivity of it all like these specials and sarah jane adventures tye in very well with each other even with the trickster referencing the future with 'the gate is waiting for you' in the end of time. Its shown here as well talking about Doomsday and that it still has effects long after. The cyber king is even referenced with Matt Smith as the doctor as well. I think this episode honestly is just ok and tbh just a bit of fun like something a lot of the christmas episodes have (mostly). Its not the best christmas episode but its definitely not the worst either. Everyone is solid in this and good jokes like the cybermen having their feet on silent.
I remember in 2013 when I came home from school like just a new fan of Doctor who and I went into my room and there was Doctor Who Magzine, a red Dalek figure from series 5 and the dvd of the next doctor. And wow, I incredibly loved watching this episode multiple times. Like I know it isn’t the best and isn’t that good but I just have to love it cause it was my first dvd
2013 was when I became a Whovian too. Although I started with Doctor Who Adventures and the first dvd was of Series 2. It took until 2014 that I started watching it live.
@@peterchu5609 I remember series 7b heavily cause I had seen doctor who before but bells of Saint John was the episode I was determined to watch etc. Nice 👍
Regarding the "no second chances"-line...... It was the line itself that was wrong, not the consistency of the underlying idea. Like the origins of the line, he grants everyone a chance to stop (effectively a second chance), but no-one a second chance to stop: refusing his offer, or taking and betraying it, is a 'deserved cause of death' The 'more accurate', "no third chances, I'm that sort of a man" just isn't that catchy of a line.
25:19 Didn't that get explained by a throwaway line with the actual next Doctor? Whole event got retconned away by the cracks along with the Dalek invasion in Stolen Earth
@@lexezlao I quite like the cracks in time, it's a nice way to play with the wibbly wobbly nature of time in a main series arc, and it's much better than, for instance, the revival of the Master for the final Series 4 special.
Also, I personally don’t think Hartigan was “screaming in fear” in her final scene. Maybe the first bit was - y’know, the normal reactionary fear of anyone who’d find themselves in such a situation - but, look at her face at 22:30; she’s _angry_ as she screams at them. Her _rage_ at being betrayed and forced into conversion was what destroyed the Cyberking, not fear. Well, that’s my opinion. Just sayin’…
I admit, this is properly my least favourite Christmas special or one of them (Christmas Carol is still my favourite) but until the ending with the giant walking cyberman, it was a fantastic special and David Morrissey did a fantastic job as Jackson Lake
I think the scream is her reaction of horror as she realizes everything, her passion, and knowledge of the destruction and capacity for destruction, and shows that she was in some capacity under the cybermen’s spell (hypnosis or whatever) for a long time and now she is finally seeing clearly
A Victorian set, a snow machine and David Morrissey is perhaps the most BBC Christmas you can get. Just throw in a cameo from a sex offender and you’ve got an instantly forgettable classic.
@@atharvadeshpande6907 Oh, just a dig at how the BBC has close ties with a lot of prolific sex offenders. They were usually thrown in for a cameo in holiday specials during the 2000s-2010s (before they’re outed, ofc)
@@mystery4561 Jimmy Saville, for one. Check out Peter Kay’s Amarillo skit for Comic Relief.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +2
@@lewiskazinsky7334 I mean the BBC is a massive institution that employs LOADS of people who all have connections to loads more. I wouldn't say specifically the BBC "has close ties with sex offenders" but rather that sex offenders are everywhere, throughout all strata of society.
The one thing that always confused me about the episode was how Miss Hartigan screams so hard she explodes along with everyone around her when the Doctor damaged her connection to the Cyberking. Just always looked so silly to me.
It makes a pinch of sense, the Doctor basically forced her to accept that she turned into the monster society deemed her as and it broke her mind completely
This is the first time I've ever heard that this is a Christmas special. 20:15 There is a trio of more modern-looking Cyberkings in one of the Doctor Who comics, Supremacy of the Cybermen. A scaled-down"proper" Cyberking also appears in Lego Dimensions, along with a cameo of the one from The Next Doctor.
Personal opinion here, I would have loved to have seen the Cybermen in a Victorian / steampunk aesthetic. To convey the technical regress of the Cybermen technology.
Great video as always, although I really disagree on how the moment of gratitude relates to the Doctor's character. He seems pleasantly surprised, and in my opinion the moment just shows how he never expects to be thanked, making the scene much more of a support to the "without reward" idea than an opposition. The Doctor's always had a massive ego despite this selflessness and I don't think this episode nor the Waters of Mars really changes that. In my opinion the Time Lord Victorious was never really about ego or glory. The disagreement between the Doctor and the Time Lords around the idea of fighting evil and changing history has been at the core of Doctor Who pretty much as long as the Time Lords themselves. What makes the Time Lord Victorious concept so interesting is that it's not a shift of values; it's an extension of what the Doctor already stands for. He doesn't act selfishly in the Waters of Mars so much as he finally puts his foot down after being tormented by the cruelty of time for so long.
This is my first ever episode of doctor who (and the only episode available legally in my country) and it's always a joy to revisit how this episode made me fell in love with Doctor Who
After watching The Walking Dead the past few weeks, it's hard to see David Morrissey as the Doctor after seeing him decapitate one of my favourite characters from the show.
Hey, this episode isnt PHENOMENAL, but like stated, it was fun for what it was. Like "The Doctor's Daughter", I never really cared about the clickbaity title (I remember I was never convinced they'd actually include the 11th Doctor), so the mystery of who this person is was really intriguing with a nice pay-off. Also, I have to admit I personally LOVE the Cyber King. Sure the design could have been better, but a giant Cyber-Mech. HECK YEAH! They need to make a big-budget adaption of the Cyber Wars or something, as seeing an army of Cyber Kings and Cybermen, like in the "Supremacy Of The Cybermen" comic, would be EPIC! I personally think the next special is probably the weakest of Tennant's last adventures, but I will always have a strong attachment to these specials. While I enjoy this more than "Planet Of The Dead", though, it does pale in comparison to "Waters Of Mars", but that a conversation for a future video XD
I actually have a story concept similar to this one where someone is posing as the doctor, but they actively know they are doing it. The Doctor then as to confront the con artist and clear their name since the con artist is setting up real threats that are putting real people in danger and is posing as the doctor saving these people for attention and popularity.
youtube makes no money from his promotion and he makes very little money, if any at all, from the ads run on his videos. you can safely use an adblocker here.
In Lego Dimensions the Cyber King is just a Giant version of the Cybermen from Nightmare in Silver as the first boss in the level A Dalektable Adventure
25:06-25:40 Errr you do remember that bit in Flesh & Stone where The Doctor explains how the cracks literally unwrite time by saying “The Cyberking! A giant Cyberman walks over Victorian London and no one remembers it!” right? 😂💁🏻♂️
This will always be my favorite exchange in the episode: Fake Doctor: “This may be hard to believe Mr. Smith, but they are creatures from another world” 10: “Really? *beat* Wow…”
I really liked this episode. Honestly it's one of my favourites the bronze primitive cyberman looked awesome and Jackson lake was a great character. growing up this was definitely my favourite episode.
I loved this episode. It was a fantastic christmas special. Its in my top 3. David Morrissey was fantastic as Jackson Lake. Both David's worked incredibly well together. Loved the usage of infostamps as a weapon.
I've never been able to get into this episode either. I loved the bits with the Cybermen stomping around doing Cyberman things, I think the Cybershades and Cyberking (Although the fact that they look steampunk in other appearances misses the point that the Cybermen were just using what they had to hand ) are both great ideas and Jackson Lake's realization that he has someone else's memories, it's a very sad moment. It also looks great and is shot and designed beautifully. But I've never liked the the episode as a whole, and my only real reason is that I've never liked the idea of the Doctor pretending to be someone else around someone who believes he's the Doctor. Also, what's up with the Cybermen's voices in this one? They sound very different to how they did from Rise of the Cybermen to Doomsday.
08:52 Cersei can't achieve her ambitions beaches she is really, really, really not as clever as she thinks she is. AFFC is one big laugh track of her screw ups.
The Next Doctor was the first ever episode of Doctor Who I watched live. So it has a special place in my heart. Coming back to it as an adult, I do really love Jackson Lake as a character, and I think he and the Doctor really carry the episode. I don’t do much care for the antagonists.
Completely agree about giving Jackson his "hero" moment in the finale. Even when I saw the episode originally I thought it would have shown how jackson had regained his courage but more importantly it would have re-affirmed his 'true' identity as jackson and not the Doctor.
All I’m gonna say is instead of doing it with Jackson Lake they could’ve did it with the 8th Doctor. Paul Mcgann was still young enough to play the 8th doctor and I will never understand why they never did a crossover with the eighth doctor and the current doctor. Obviously he’s too old now but back then he would’ve fit perfectly.
This special is a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine. True, it's certainly not the best Christmas special, but it's not the worst either. The stand outs are David Morrissey and Dervla Kirwan's performances. Regarding the Cyber-king, my theory is that RTD put in there, because he knew that Moffat was planning to completely throw away all of the RTD-era's world building with the cracks in time arc, so RTD decided to heck with it and put the Cyber-king in this episode, knowing that Moffat was gonna retcon it.
I always interpreted the her screaming at the end as her screaming in anger instead of fear. Seeing that her ambitions were turned against her and she was taken over by a race of what she would see as ‘men’
I quite like that the Cybers are a lesser threat than the Daleks, tbh. To pit the Cybermen as this really powerful enemy and then make it so the Daleks make them look like chumps to me creates this air where the Daleks seem like much more of a threat, as opposed to downplaying the Cybers. The fact that the Cybermen steal Dalek infostamps even lets them seem creative, despite their lack of emotion. Especially when they are actually shown to be threatening, this in my experience elevates the show rather than detracts from it.
Odd that in-universe, the Doctor would be trying to figure out which incarnation it could be, considering he knows full-well he only has 1 regeneration left. Prior to Trenzalore/Timeless Child. Although I know this was not yet established offscreen.
10 might not have considered the Metacrisis as a full regeneration yet, it probably took until 11 came along with a new personality for The Doctor to consider it a proper regeneration
This was the first Doctor Who episode I ever watched, so I have a lot of nostalgia for it, but even I can admit there is some major missed potential in the story.
Hartigan was almost too interesting for a single special. She had enough character that I would have liked to see her developed over multiple episodes. She could have been a series antagonist like Kovarian or the GI but more sympathetic rather than just a BBEG. I always found it pretty dark that her implied backstory is that she was raped.
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
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No it wasn’t a bad special
Your theory about the cyberking looking the way it is due to the fact of limited tech is true as if you look into the Doctor Who expanded media cyberkings look drastically different.
For example the 2016 comic supremacy of the Cybermen.
I don't care about your stupid squarespace
Clickbait the episode, but gotta love Jackson Lake and the pure acting talent of David Morrissey
It's a blink and you'll miss it moment, but the Cyber King not being remembered is briefly explained in Flesh and Stone as the memories being lost to The Crack.
@@MaxAutoAttack Well, London was invaded by dinosaurs in the 70s and RTD ignored. In fact, RTD era feel so distant to the classic series. Even Sarah Jane feel so diferent to the original Sarah.
@@mayotango1317 as a new who fan I gotta say I’d have no idea who Sarah Jane is without their portrayal of her. It may be not your ideal situation but it’s still better than Sarah Jane facing the same issue so many other companions do and fall into obscurity
@@roku144 For me, the real Sarah Jane was in her Big Finish miniseries.
I always considered it as more than a blink and you'll miss it moment, although for the monster of the story it's in it's an apt description I guess.
"Do you know how Jackson Lake could have remembered? Skilshare"
Shillskare
Yeah, I wonder why Jackson didn’t use squarespace for psychiatric therapy. Oh, right, it’s 1892. My bad!
Imagine being born before modern technology, how embarrassing
@@HarboWholmes hehe, very true
1854, actually. Still not internet, tho...
@@IronPiedmont Close, but it was 1851
I personally would've liked to see David Morrissey be an actual incarnation of the Doctor like how he thought he was as Jackson Lake. And while I may be disappointed that such a thing didn't come to pass, I'll always fondly hold the concept in my head of David Morrissey being the actual Doctor, because he was just that good at it for me.
There's always hope for a Big Finish Unbound story!
The show was able to bring back Capaldi, why not Morrissey?
I like to imagine that the 'no second chances' line in 'The Christmas Invasion' is in there for good reason. As soon as he sees Harriet Jones attack the Sycorax he realises that second chance are important thus his insistence on always offering them in the future and that 'no second chances' was just a regeneration thing.
I always just assumed the 'first' chance is him offering them the opportunity to back down and receive his help, but then they don't get a second chance if they turn that down, he'll do whatever is necessary to stop them. That way it's consistent with most of his behaviour throughout his era and even makes more sense in the Christmas Invasion as when he says the line he's literally just given the Sycorax leader the opportunity to live (first chance) but then kills him when he doesn't leave in peace (no second chance). I don't really see any problem with that line and the way he behaves in later episodes.
@@Fff99901 Yes that's exactly what it means. I don't know why people misunderstand that phrase to mean Ten will immediately start killing everyone. People just looking for issues that aren't there purely out of boredom.
@@erikalieben5476 yeah, true
The scene where Hartigan gets converted has always been so funny to me. But in a way that makes me genuinely adore it for how silly it is.
There's the "That was designated a lie" line of course, but there's also Hartigan asking "Who will become the Cyberking" and the Cyberleader sloooooowly turning to look at her, just to let HER figure it out.
Then she's like "Have you no pity?" and the camera does a dramatic zoom in on the Cyberleader's face, just for it to say "...correct!" It's so good. Like, what did she THINK it was going to say?
Also, it was nice to see them give a female antagonist the same treatment that male megalomaniac's get in this show. Not something the studio's feel they have the right to do anymore. After RTD's era she would have ended up becoming the sympathetic 11th hour hero villain and saving the day after she realized she just needed to love someone, anyone.
@@noneya3635 yeah honestly I feel like they're trying not to be sexist but they swung too far in the other direction 💀💀 we need some more female villains that are just straight up juicy even villains imo
This special isn’t the best, but Jackson Lake is top-teir, i always wished he was shown in the farewell montage in End of Time (even with him being an admittedly small character)
Just now I realize(d) this is a missed opportunity
True, it’s still a guilty pleasure episode i love to watch tho
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist a woman called Mercy.
I also really love the scene at the end when Jackson stands on the lamp post and tells all the people about the Doctor and he is so giddy and in awe. He may not be the Doctor anymore but Jackson had just a taste of what it feels like to be The Doctor and saw how wonderful and magical they are and then has everyone give the Doctor a round of applause and loads of cheers. That scene always gives me happy feels. Makes me smile. and Jackson calling the TARDIS wonderful nonsense is the best description ever.
Loved the special
"They" 💀
'Massive radiating domme energy' was not a phrase I expected to hear in this video!
A surprise for sure, but a welcome one.
I learned too much about Harbo's sexual preferences this episode
Harbo is growing as a creator and a personality and I am absolutely here for it
@ true dat, true dat…
Take a shot everytime HW opens a video with "When Doctor Who was rebooted in 2005" or something like that.
Its a shame that David Morrissey's Doctor and Toby Jones' Dream Lord are both only for 1 episode. They both are such perfect characters that would have been great to see more of them. Although perhaps that is why they are so great. They are perfect characters that haven't got diluted because they need to keep returning or fill multiple episodes
You forgot to mention the cringe worthy cyber dogs. Those were just plain bad.
The structure of "action scene - exposition scene - action scene - character scene" is something I really miss
Chibnall just does "exposition scene - exposition scene - character sentence - exposition scene"
"Character time is over. Time for plot!"
I always like when the solution to the cybermen is in humanity and emotion, like Hartigan here overriding the cyber leader and then having her eyes opened by the doctor, the cancelling of the emotional inhibitor chip in the parallel world, or Danny Pink overriding the programming
In season 5 they mention how people always forget the aliens and tie it into the crack in time plotline. the doctor even mentions that nobody remembers the cyberking.
That is a later retcon though but i like that they mention it
Most likely Moffat flexing on RTD by fixing his plotholes (while also creating new ones in the progress)
As time goes on I really really *REALLY* don’t get why Doctor Who seems so set on having no one remember the various alien encounters that happen, it really makes it seem like nothing that happens actually stay a thing that happened. Case in point for me is the destruction of Mondas. In 1986, Mondasian cybermen attempted to siphon the Earth’s energy to revitalize the dying planet of Mondas, but accidentally took too much energy and blew up Mondas in the process. There was a global event that ended up blowing up a planet in *1986,* and no one seems to think aliens exist most of the time.
I mean, I do understand why they do that, I just don’t like it in this case or agree with the decision. FYI the reason they do this is the same reason that the Doctor will usually hang out on earth in the same year as when the show is currently airing, to keep things close to our reality in terms of society. We don’t think aliens exist, so neither does earth society within Doctor Who. We never had a Cyber King stomp around London in Victorian times, so no one will bring it up in universe either. Load of corporate horse shit if you ask me, do they think things will be less relatable or something if our comparable present doesn’t meticulously align together to the show? I can’t think of why else they would softcore continually ignore established history/continuity like this.
@@antonberkbigler5759 because it creates too many loose ends that would radically alter the world to keep track of.
@@jackstuhley1745 There are more complex franchises out there than Doctor Who. Reread (or maybe read for the first time) my second paragraph.
I feel like this story would be much more loved if the title wasn’t so ‘clickbait-y.’ Maybe if they called it ‘The Other Doctor’ or ‘The Doctor Who Never Was’ it would of been much more liked
Having joined the fandom during Smith’s run I never felt this episode was clickbait-y. But then I wasn’t part of the series when this came out & people were wondering who the next doctor would be. I already knew.
"The New Doctor" is the perfect balance imo
Fun Fact: In Germany they named the special 'The other Doctor' :D
Rosita is basically a hodge-podge of all of Davies' companions. She has a name similar to Rose, the same race as Martha, and the mouth of Donna.
Jeez dude 😳
@@James.B.Russell don't make me get the hose
@alexanderwamsley5846 he said it dude not me
It's one of the most forgettable Tennant stories _ever,_ with some pretty mediocre ideas propping it up.
All the same, it is my favourite of the Tennant Christmas episodes. It just has this uncanny charm, it's like no other story of the era. Whilst this is mainly a bad thing (given how consistently good the era is), it makes The Next Doctor feel new on the rare occasion I watch it. I think it's Jackson Lake that keeps me going, wish there has been _less_ of Cyber-centroc focus if anything!
I agree with the bit about Jackson saving his son. It would have been a much better turn of events. The Doctor's great, but he's not the only person capable of being the hero. That's why he has so many companions backing him up in modern Who.
"I'm not sure I like how [Miss Hartigan] ends up during the climax." Bc she didn't end up as ur gf by the sounds of it, king
When despite having no emotions... the Cybermen are the sassiest and roast capable Monsters in doctor who.
Hey, at least you know that they are made using human parts because of it
I think another important reason people may despise this episode, and call it click bait, is due to the episode airing shortly after David Tennant's grand announcement of his departure from the show at the 2008 National Television Awards, which shook everyone up at the time and even gave me a reason to watch BBC News. We also had the memorable regeneration in the series 4 finale where there Doctor stayed in the same incarnation, which meant it was going to take something big to take down the beloved tenth Doctor.
I never thought of it as clickbait because of the excellent way they explained the situation and of course the great performance
I think this is a great episode. There's already this vibe at this point in the show that something is coming to an end (meaning the Doctor will be regenerating soon) and having him meet the "Next Doctor" and believe that this is actaully his next incarantion until that plot twist was such a clever idea.
I’d take this over any “New Years Day” specials Chibnall writes. I just wanna sit back in front of the TV with family again and enjoy Doctor Who. New Year’s Day, we couldn’t be more apart
I personally think that this special, while not the best, is still is a pretty decent episode. There is some things that make this episode *EH* but overall, I wouldn’t complain watching it.
Yeesh, imagine a JK Rowling episode penned by Garreth Roberts. The darkest timeline.
I know it was a transition to the sponsor, but how the hell is Jackson lake going to view, let alone make a website?
Unless.... Squarespace has compiled so much internet data that they've learned how to time travel.
I wish a Christmas speical would use the Celestial Toymaker as its enemy
YES! Thank you!
You got your wish lol.
Well not Christmas episode but it did happen
WELP
I always remembered the Cybermen attack in the snow at the funeral and how scary it was. I was never scared of the Cybermen normally but that scene used to always really creep me out. Especially when they emerge from the fog with their stomping feet like monstrous creatures.
Personally I like this episode. It’s a fun little break from the seriousness and actually quite funny and always enjoyable
25:18 - the 11th Doctor says in series 5 that’s the cracks caused people to forget the cyber king. (Possibility Time of Angles?)
I know this'll sound a bit weird but I like seeing the brain on display on the cyber leader. It reminds you this was once a person. Also to me being a leader it's like showing off how much better you are than the common cybermen cause you get to show off your brain. On a weird side note, I'm concerned of the lack of any liquid not surrounding the brain to protect it from any potential damage.
I really liked this episode. The finale with the giant Cyberking was a bit over the top for my taste but the idea of there being a human doctor worked really well for me, I found it way more satisfying and interesting than an actual encounter with the next doctor. Sure, the viewers got kind of tricked but in my opinion it was a really pleasant surprise.
"Why does no one remember the robot that came out of the Thames?"
Torchwood: Let us introduce ourselves. We're Torchwood.
Jack in Monster Files: So there are accounts of this giant thing that came out of the Thames...
The cracks in time.
@@mayotango1317 Yeah, that always felt like Moffat pushing the reset button since Davies liked referencing how the public's perception of events was. Especially with the Cybermen and Dalek stories.
I mean, this could have been interesting as a way of having characters who feel like they've lived in the Whoniverse but I can see why they want companions to reflect normal humans.
@@christopherbennett5858 Davis did the same with the classic series. I never feel that his London is the same that the Yetis in Underground or dinosaurs in the 70s.
@@mayotango1317 Considering his first few seasons had the main companion living in a council estate, I can see why that may be different from the Pertwee and Baker eras.
Davies definitely took a lot of drama cues from Kitchen SInk dramas like Eastenders and a lot of the focus is more on characters than location, aside from Cardiff jabs.
This was the second episode of Doctor Who I ever watched and it was MEGA confusing for me (in a fun way.) The first episode I saw was Vincent and the Doctor with Matt Smith. I just saw it by chance and knew nothing about the show. I liked the episode and I'm like "this was cool I want to check out more of this show." I guess this Christmas special was available for some reason that I don't remember, but I turned it on. Now there was a different guy (David Tenant) saying he was the doctor, and an additional character who is also claiming to be the doctor. Needless to say I was scratching my head and I needed to pause and do a good ten minutes of googling before I realized I wasn't losing my mind. Big fan of the show ever since :)
I do like these specials because it shows the morale of the doctor getting darker and darker over these episodes along with the wedding of sarah jane two parter. Like in this christmas episode he seems to be happy masking his sadness over losing Donna recently. Its kinda like a distraction not wanting to think about what happened before the next episodes change his demeanour.
Something i do miss during the Davies era was the connectivity of it all like these specials and sarah jane adventures tye in very well with each other even with the trickster referencing the future with 'the gate is waiting for you' in the end of time. Its shown here as well talking about Doomsday and that it still has effects long after. The cyber king is even referenced with Matt Smith as the doctor as well.
I think this episode honestly is just ok and tbh just a bit of fun like something a lot of the christmas episodes have (mostly). Its not the best christmas episode but its definitely not the worst either. Everyone is solid in this and good jokes like the cybermen having their feet on silent.
I remember in 2013 when I came home from school like just a new fan of Doctor who and I went into my room and there was Doctor Who Magzine, a red Dalek figure from series 5 and the dvd of the next doctor. And wow, I incredibly loved watching this episode multiple times. Like I know it isn’t the best and isn’t that good but I just have to love it cause it was my first dvd
2013 was when I became a Whovian too. Although I started with Doctor Who Adventures and the first dvd was of Series 2. It took until 2014 that I started watching it live.
@@peterchu5609 I remember series 7b heavily cause I had seen doctor who before but bells of Saint John was the episode I was determined to watch etc. Nice 👍
i always took no-one remembering the mech as a consequence of the time cracks from season 5 as they mention it when referring to those cracks
Regarding the "no second chances"-line......
It was the line itself that was wrong, not the consistency of the underlying idea.
Like the origins of the line, he grants everyone a chance to stop (effectively a second chance), but no-one a second chance to stop:
refusing his offer, or taking and betraying it, is a 'deserved cause of death'
The 'more accurate', "no third chances, I'm that sort of a man" just isn't that catchy of a line.
I really like this episode, David Morrissey did a great job, and in my opinion he would have been a great doctor
25:19 Didn't that get explained by a throwaway line with the actual next Doctor? Whole event got retconned away by the cracks along with the Dalek invasion in Stolen Earth
yeah but that was stupid
No. A gigant robot in victorian london is stupid.
@@mayotango1317 not AS stupid
@@lexezlao I quite like the cracks in time, it's a nice way to play with the wibbly wobbly nature of time in a main series arc, and it's much better than, for instance, the revival of the Master for the final Series 4 special.
@@deltahalo241 I like the cracks, but I don't like the univers reboot and erasure thing
Imagine if in Series 13, the Ruth Doctor turns out to be Jackson Lake
No-one seems to be talking about how *superb* Dervla Kirwan was in this episode? As in, this lady is a QUEEN in my eyes now!
Also, I personally don’t think Hartigan was “screaming in fear” in her final scene. Maybe the first bit was - y’know, the normal reactionary fear of anyone who’d find themselves in such a situation - but, look at her face at 22:30; she’s _angry_ as she screams at them. Her _rage_ at being betrayed and forced into conversion was what destroyed the Cyberking, not fear.
Well, that’s my opinion. Just sayin’…
*Dervla Kirwan, & yes she was fantastic.
@@BH-98 ah, thanks!
I admit, this is properly my least favourite Christmas special or one of them (Christmas Carol is still my favourite) but until the ending with the giant walking cyberman, it was a fantastic special and David Morrissey did a fantastic job as Jackson Lake
When will you do the Sarah Jane adventures series review?
I don’t think this is that bad. It works as a fun romp to watch with your family on Christmas Day
This was my first Doctor Who episode ever. I was confused most of the runtime, but it was fun enough so I stuck around for the last 12 years lol
Im surprised harbo dislikes this special, personally its one of my favourites and id love to see david morissey actually become the doctor one day
Funnily enough I watched this episode last night and it still stands among my favourite Christmas specials.
I think the scream is her reaction of horror as she realizes everything, her passion, and knowledge of the destruction and capacity for destruction, and shows that she was in some capacity under the cybermen’s spell (hypnosis or whatever) for a long time and now she is finally seeing clearly
21:30 your points here are exactly why the short trip Forever Fallen is so good. Someone who actually accepted the Doctor's help
I actually love this special. I was hoping David Morrisly would be the 11th Doctor. That 10 would choose his face to be 11.
No.
A Victorian set, a snow machine and David Morrissey is perhaps the most BBC Christmas you can get. Just throw in a cameo from a sex offender and you’ve got an instantly forgettable classic.
Wait who's the offender? I haven't been part of Fandom for very long
@@atharvadeshpande6907 Oh, just a dig at how the BBC has close ties with a lot of prolific sex offenders. They were usually thrown in for a cameo in holiday specials during the 2000s-2010s (before they’re outed, ofc)
@@lewiskazinsky7334 who exactly?
@@mystery4561 Jimmy Saville, for one. Check out Peter Kay’s Amarillo skit for Comic Relief.
@@lewiskazinsky7334 I mean the BBC is a massive institution that employs LOADS of people who all have connections to loads more. I wouldn't say specifically the BBC "has close ties with sex offenders" but rather that sex offenders are everywhere, throughout all strata of society.
The one thing that always confused me about the episode was how Miss Hartigan screams so hard she explodes along with everyone around her when the Doctor damaged her connection to the Cyberking. Just always looked so silly to me.
It makes a pinch of sense, the Doctor basically forced her to accept that she turned into the monster society deemed her as and it broke her mind completely
This is the first time I've ever heard that this is a Christmas special.
20:15 There is a trio of more modern-looking Cyberkings in one of the Doctor Who comics, Supremacy of the Cybermen. A scaled-down"proper" Cyberking also appears in Lego Dimensions, along with a cameo of the one from The Next Doctor.
Personal opinion here, I would have loved to have seen the Cybermen in a Victorian / steampunk aesthetic. To convey the technical regress of the Cybermen technology.
Yes! This.
There's fanart of steampunk cybermen and they look absolutely fantastic
If you like continuity like this, then you should check out Stargate. That’s a show that takes continuity and call backs to a whole new level.
Great video as always, although I really disagree on how the moment of gratitude relates to the Doctor's character. He seems pleasantly surprised, and in my opinion the moment just shows how he never expects to be thanked, making the scene much more of a support to the "without reward" idea than an opposition. The Doctor's always had a massive ego despite this selflessness and I don't think this episode nor the Waters of Mars really changes that.
In my opinion the Time Lord Victorious was never really about ego or glory. The disagreement between the Doctor and the Time Lords around the idea of fighting evil and changing history has been at the core of Doctor Who pretty much as long as the Time Lords themselves. What makes the Time Lord Victorious concept so interesting is that it's not a shift of values; it's an extension of what the Doctor already stands for. He doesn't act selfishly in the Waters of Mars so much as he finally puts his foot down after being tormented by the cruelty of time for so long.
This is my first ever episode of doctor who (and the only episode available legally in my country) and it's always a joy to revisit how this episode made me fell in love with Doctor Who
Nobody:
Harbo: Radiates Dom Energy
Everybody: .... Harbo? HARBO!!
NOBODY:
HARBO: y- yes miss :3
EVERYONE EVERYWHERE: DA FUCC!!!!
HE IS NOT WRONG 🥵🥵
Better to have a specific taste that's out of the norm than not accept what you do like. Coming from someone who likes pizza dipped in pepsi
harbo is a sub comfirmed
@@user-jn1wm3tb8v fucking p a r d o n dude 👁👄👁
Don't let him hear about Lady D, we'll never get him back
Just watched Fury from the Deep and the sonic screwdriver does in fact work on screws.
After watching The Walking Dead the past few weeks, it's hard to see David Morrissey as the Doctor after seeing him decapitate one of my favourite characters from the show.
It's such a shame that David Morrissey wasn't a future incarnation of The Doctor - the 13th Incarnation.
"All style, no substance" describes 90% of Doctor Who. Not that I'm complaining.
I think there's an 11th Doctor episode where a throwaway line handwaves nobody remembering the giant mech showing up in Victorian London
Hey, this episode isnt PHENOMENAL, but like stated, it was fun for what it was. Like "The Doctor's Daughter", I never really cared about the clickbaity title (I remember I was never convinced they'd actually include the 11th Doctor), so the mystery of who this person is was really intriguing with a nice pay-off. Also, I have to admit I personally LOVE the Cyber King. Sure the design could have been better, but a giant Cyber-Mech. HECK YEAH! They need to make a big-budget adaption of the Cyber Wars or something, as seeing an army of Cyber Kings and Cybermen, like in the "Supremacy Of The Cybermen" comic, would be EPIC! I personally think the next special is probably the weakest of Tennant's last adventures, but I will always have a strong attachment to these specials. While I enjoy this more than "Planet Of The Dead", though, it does pale in comparison to "Waters Of Mars", but that a conversation for a future video XD
I actually have a story concept similar to this one where someone is posing as the doctor, but they actively know they are doing it. The Doctor then as to confront the con artist and clear their name since the con artist is setting up real threats that are putting real people in danger and is posing as the doctor saving these people for attention and popularity.
I thought that if a video had an internal paid promotion, that other ads would not be shown guess TH-cam Has to make double ad money
youtube makes no money from his promotion and he makes very little money, if any at all, from the ads run on his videos. you can safely use an adblocker here.
In Lego Dimensions the Cyber King is just a Giant version of the Cybermen from Nightmare in Silver as the first boss in the level A Dalektable Adventure
25:06-25:40 Errr you do remember that bit in Flesh & Stone where The Doctor explains how the cracks literally unwrite time by saying “The Cyberking! A giant Cyberman walks over Victorian London and no one remembers it!” right? 😂💁🏻♂️
No, he is a Moffat hater.
Oh god, I'd literally erased this from my memory...
I kind of want a Jackson Lake Big Finish spin off now
This will always be my favorite exchange in the episode:
Fake Doctor: “This may be hard to believe Mr. Smith, but they are creatures from another world”
10: “Really? *beat* Wow…”
I really liked this episode. Honestly it's one of my favourites the bronze primitive cyberman looked awesome and Jackson lake was a great character. growing up this was definitely my favourite episode.
I loved this episode. It was a fantastic christmas special. Its in my top 3. David Morrissey was fantastic as Jackson Lake. Both David's worked incredibly well together. Loved the usage of infostamps as a weapon.
I've never been able to get into this episode either. I loved the bits with the Cybermen stomping around doing Cyberman things, I think the Cybershades and Cyberking (Although the fact that they look steampunk in other appearances misses the point that the Cybermen were just using what they had to hand ) are both great ideas and Jackson Lake's realization that he has someone else's memories, it's a very sad moment. It also looks great and is shot and designed beautifully.
But I've never liked the the episode as a whole, and my only real reason is that I've never liked the idea of the Doctor pretending to be someone else around someone who believes he's the Doctor.
Also, what's up with the Cybermen's voices in this one? They sound very different to how they did from Rise of the Cybermen to Doomsday.
08:52 Cersei can't achieve her ambitions beaches she is really, really, really not as clever as she thinks she is. AFFC is one big laugh track of her screw ups.
The Next Doctor was the first ever episode of Doctor Who I watched live. So it has a special place in my heart.
Coming back to it as an adult, I do really love Jackson Lake as a character, and I think he and the Doctor really carry the episode. I don’t do much care for the antagonists.
I'm praying that the Doctor in 'The Next Doctor' won't be dragged into the awful Timeless Child Storyline.
14:25 I love how the running gag of "I like evil women" from that Sarah Jane Adventures episode keeps going strong xD
I remember watching this but I somehow completely forgot about the mechagodzilla cyberman
I watched it fairly recently and also forgot about it!
Such a waste of 2 amazing guest stars!!!
Cyber monkeys and a historical Galvatron... No thank you!😂😂😂
Completely agree about giving Jackson his "hero" moment in the finale. Even when I saw the episode originally I thought it would have shown how jackson had regained his courage but more importantly it would have re-affirmed his 'true' identity as jackson and not the Doctor.
All I’m gonna say is instead of doing it with Jackson Lake they could’ve did it with the 8th Doctor. Paul Mcgann was still young enough to play the 8th doctor and I will never understand why they never did a crossover with the eighth doctor and the current doctor. Obviously he’s too old now but back then he would’ve fit perfectly.
I love this episode so much! Love Jackson Lake and honestly he deserves to come back in later episodes
David Morrissey's performance makes the entire episode. His speech at the end always gets to me.
This special is a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine. True, it's certainly not the best Christmas special, but it's not the worst either. The stand outs are David Morrissey and Dervla Kirwan's performances. Regarding the Cyber-king, my theory is that RTD put in there, because he knew that Moffat was planning to completely throw away all of the RTD-era's world building with the cracks in time arc, so RTD decided to heck with it and put the Cyber-king in this episode, knowing that Moffat was gonna retcon it.
No, it is the opposite. RTD did it because it was fun, like farts or a giant claw on Planet of the Ood. Moffat only corrected that nonsense
@@mayotango1317 two lines of nonsense words
@@altinaykor364 Bad Wolf?
I always interpreted the her screaming at the end as her screaming in anger instead of fear. Seeing that her ambitions were turned against her and she was taken over by a race of what she would see as ‘men’
Never clicked a notification so fast
I quite like that the Cybers are a lesser threat than the Daleks, tbh. To pit the Cybermen as this really powerful enemy and then make it so the Daleks make them look like chumps to me creates this air where the Daleks seem like much more of a threat, as opposed to downplaying the Cybers. The fact that the Cybermen steal Dalek infostamps even lets them seem creative, despite their lack of emotion.
Especially when they are actually shown to be threatening, this in my experience elevates the show rather than detracts from it.
Odd that in-universe, the Doctor would be trying to figure out which incarnation it could be, considering he knows full-well he only has 1 regeneration left. Prior to Trenzalore/Timeless Child. Although I know this was not yet established offscreen.
10 might not have considered the Metacrisis as a full regeneration yet, it probably took until 11 came along with a new personality for The Doctor to consider it a proper regeneration
Oh great now I'm always going to think of Miss Hartigan and her radiating domme energy whenever I watch this episode. Thanks for that! 😂
This was the first Doctor Who episode I ever watched, so I have a lot of nostalgia for it, but even I can admit there is some major missed potential in the story.
Hartigan was almost too interesting for a single special. She had enough character that I would have liked to see her developed over multiple episodes. She could have been a series antagonist like Kovarian or the GI but more sympathetic rather than just a BBEG. I always found it pretty dark that her implied backstory is that she was raped.
So many game of Thrones references... Time for a Doctor who/ Thrones Cross over?
I'm probably unironically the first person in 2 years to think about Game of Thrones
oof, why does Jackson Lake look like Hitler in the thumbnail?
You can't hate an episode that gives us Dervla Kirwan in that dress...