Paper differences - how a B&W image looks different on lustre and fine art paper.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Following on from the colour/B&W editing and print choices covered in a previous video,
• Some P7500 large art p... Different versions of the print...
Keith looks at how the B&W architectural image of the interior of Wells Cathedral looks different on different papers and what this means for editing choices and processes.
The two papers were included in a wider look at image type vs. paper choice at:
www.northlight...
This video looks at the process of paper choice for your printer
• Choosing the best pape...
See also: www.northlight...
Paper choices for a new printer are discussed in
• Got a new printer? Why...
Great point about printing large photos on gloss showing bigger reflections! I would've never thought of that but it makes perfect sense.
Thanks
For me, that's exactly what turns "taking photos" into art - the attention about every little detail, and the dedication to perfect it :)
Thanks Keith!
Thanks, although as with painting I have do a point where I decide 'that will do'.
I learn something new every time I watch your videos. And then you throw in a comment about another video you have done on a related subject.. Another something new. Thanks
Thanks.
I find TH-cam quite difficult to organise in this respect. I guess it's partly because I rarely ever use it myself for photography related material. The playlists help, but I'm not sure how much people look at them.
Keith, the amount of work you put in and the frequency to produce these videos on the 7500 is amazing. The information you provide is very valuable to me, as I had bought the epson 900 at the beginning of the year. So keep it up, you're awesome.
Thanks - The P7500 videos are more frequent partly because I've not got it here for long (goes back tomorrow) I've just finished the main review video (~35 mins) which I'll likely run in a week or so, when I've finished writing the main written review.
Another great teaching on the finer points of print making, in this case, paper choice. Tnx.
Thanks!
I'm really glad that I've found your channel. the topics you bring up really do take the full workflow into consideration. I'm absolutely guilty of pixel peeping on screen, so far not on print yet but I haven't produced much to peep at yet. Looking at getting a couple rolls of paper for my P900 very soon. Thank you for covering the differences between fine art + lustre paper. I have a project that I'm debating on paper types right now so this is very helpful for a newbie to the process like I am now.
Thanks - glad it's of interest!
If you've any specific questions, let me know? The more detailed stuff is generally in the written articles on the Northlight web site
Thank you SO much for making this Keith
Thanks!
You are a very good teacher! I have learnt a lot!
Thanks, I appreciate that!
Thank you for this video Keith. Its much appreciated as I am at that point with a series of 16 that I want to go forward with printing. Cheers.
Glad it's of some interest!
I revisited this video. Highly educational and enlightening.
Thanks!
Thanks for your insights.
Thanks
Good information in this video. It comes from experience; good to know. I never thought about the sharpening aspect on two different papers.
Thanks. I'll try and do some more stuff covering this,
Thank you so very much! My choices are so much clearer now.
Glad I could help!
Thank you, although I only have a cheap end Epsom XP15000, I still very much value your knowledge of how paper type & finish affects the finished product
Yes, it's often forgotten how much the choice affects the look of the print.
Great info. I'll try & look at your other vid on this photo & look forward to more like this. Just for the record, when I purchase a lens, I try to get the best I can afford with at least a 2.8 max aperture except for wildlife which is beyond my budget.
Thanks - glad it's of interest!
Hello Keith once again thanks for such a clever advice a
screen will never simulate a paper texture .
An Epson SC P7500 (beginner) user
Dan
Thanks - glad it showed on the video...
I prefer the fine art (matte) print. To my eye, there's plenty of detail and I love the smooth gradation of tones, plus it lends a very appropriate look to the stone subject. But my taste typically leans towards matte papers.
Thanks - my own preference for this subject too.
I rarely care too much about what people choose for prints, as long as I feel it's a deliberate choice ;-)
Excellent.
Thanks!
Thank you for this video. Very helpful.
Glad it was of interest!
Great video Keith, what is your experience with Matte papers, such as max black values, how the different textures effect the "look" of the image. And types of prints you have found that match up well with certain papers.
Thanks. The max black often makes much less difference than people assume - one reason I never quote 'dmax' values [if you see lots of mentions of Dmax and 'gamut volumes' in reviews then take such stuff with a big pinch of salt unless there are lots of explanatory notes ;-) ]
The main time you see differences is if you put a matte print near a gloss/lustre one - something never to do if showing prints! It often tends to go on just what 'job' the black is doing in the image and how much tonal range you feel the image needs.
Look at examples in my recent printer reviews - this is a topic I've addressed quite often
www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/printing-paper-reviews-articles/
Thank you
Thanks
some wise words there mate.
Thanks
No one who ever looks close buys a print - words to live by. That said, I've seen photographs being offered for sale that look like the sensor was measured in thousands, not millions of pixels.
Yes - it's when they actually sell that I wince a bit ;-)
Hi Keith, can you provide to link to the video where you explain the linearisation/equalization process? I'm having isssues with matte prints where the darks are too bright.
See here [an article, not a video]
www.northlight-images.co.uk/test-image-for-black-and-white-printing/
includes links to the different versions and a couple of videos for different measurement options
printing such an image in A2 on a large printer like this one compared to a print on the P900 - both with the Advanced Black & White settings and identical paper, would the difference be noticeable?
There are some differences in the ink set which might show on some papers. The P700/900 ink set is slightly more prone to a form of bronzing at higher quality settings than the P7500. This was noticeable on _some_ papers on the P900 (it's mentioned in my full review and the associated B&W article).
Looking at some of my B&W test images I'm minded to think this is due to the smaller minimum drop size of the 700/900.
I'll have more about this in the main [written] review for the P7500 when it's done...
Hello Keith, really appreciate for all your video. I have few questions about black and white print, Have you experience un even black on the fineart paper ( something like Hahnamuhle photorag ultra smooth ) ? Any difference between 8 bit grey print and 16 bit grey print from Photoshop ? Also if our photo is 8bit grey, is it fine to print in 16 bit ? Thank you. Looking forward to hear from you.
I didn't test any HM papers on this printer - the papers I did test all looked just fine on the P7500 - no problem with blacks
I tend to print in 16 bit, since I've been working on the images in 16 bit. if I need to apply a correction curve, it's much better done in 16 bit.
However, once the final print file is done, there is little difference in what gets sent to the driver (8 or 16).
I don't have a test print clearly showing any differences - they may exist, but I doubt many would see them
Thank you for your reply. I am not sure why I got a problem with the black on HM paper, but i will test again.
Media settings? - ink limits? - the paper may benefit from a custom media setting on the P7500
I print on Hahnamuhle photorag ultra smooth 305g , velvet fine art paper, head gap 1.9 ( i am not sure if it 1.9 or 1.6), paper thickness 0.5, quality max ( 5) , dry time per pass 3 second, vacuum 3 ( i find out it to much ) , tention standard, and ink it still around 85% most of them except light grey is around 60%. I was thinking i will try to reduce the dry time and see if anything change.
Unfortunately the printer has gone back to Epson, so I can't do any more testing like this.
I'd suggest asking on the print forum at Luminous Landscape?
I know you're right, but it is a shame that one would need to print "for sale" rather than "for art's sake." I must admit that the first thing I do when a print emerges from my P900 is to get it in good light and throw on the readers to confirm I made the right choices (for me). I'm no fan of pixel peeping, so I suppose it's a bit weird that I scrutinize my prints (so maybe I need to take the glasses off). I'm lucky not having to rely on print sales but it's great when others appreciate my work (without the benefit of readers). The only really important thing is if the print "says" something worthwhile. I'll have to revisit the bronzing issue you mention elsewhere (I've somehow avoided it to this point).
Ah, it all comes down to what you're doing with the prints and why you're doing them ;-)
Running a print business is a very different thing...
I've a video coming up looking at more aspects of this (prompted partly by the big prints and the P7500 going back to Epson today)
BTW, the bronzing can be very dependent on paper choices and media settings
Do you photograph your pictures from a tripod or hand-held?
If you mean the source images for the prints, then both.
Paying work almost guarantees a tripod, personal work, depends on if I absolutely need one and have remembered to bring one with me.
It's not something I use for most landscape photography and having one with my when I'm just visiting somewhere like the cathedral, because I'm in the area, is purely by chance ;-)
I've long regarded habitual use of tripods for landscape photography as a relic of the 19th century ;-) :-) YMMV as they say...
hi Keith, I have an issue I can't solve and hope you can be to the rescue.
Problem description: while printing on Epson p900 using hahnemuhle PhotoRag FineArt paper (305), B&W print, I get some horizontal fine colour lines.
What have I tried?
* set media type to Velvet FineArt paper.
* Both color print using the icc profile, as well as your recommended method of Epson B&W (from menu).
* tried both with high-speed on and off.
* I ran printer head alignment and head cleaning (the 'regular' one)
Any idea? this didn't happen a few prints ago, and now I can't get rid of it...
Thanks in advance, love your channel!
I saw this once on a test machine which had been damaged in transit - it went back to Epson.
Sorry but I don't have any other suggestions other than to try printing from another device (even a phone)
@@KeithCooper appreciate the speedy reply! thanks. I'll update if I find something.
@@KeithCooper if I experiment with a custom media type for it based on the velvet FA, what would you guess be a good drying time (seconds) for this HM FA PhotoRag Ultra Smooth?
In general, if a paper needs a longer drying time, I suspect it is not optimal for the printer. This is something I almost never change.
@@KeithCooper oops. I just bought a whole package of this paper :D
Have you experimented with this family of papers (Hahnemuhle FA PR, 305-308gsm) on the Epson P900/700? I haven't found such videos from you.
Anyway, fyi for future questions: setting the drying time to 2s helped only when printing your calibration photo, with mix of B&W and color. but not for the purely B&W... annoying and weird!