The Shocking Feud: Christopher Lee vs. Peter Jackson in Lord of the Rings

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  • @EchoBaseNetwork
    @EchoBaseNetwork  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    I hope you enjoy this retrospective episode looking back at the feud between the great Christopher Lee and Peter Jackson!

  • @DraxxDarlok
    @DraxxDarlok 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +48

    Lee could read the ingredients from a box of cereal and make it sound dramatically riveting. That last great generation of acting professionals will never be replaced.

    • @EchoBaseNetwork
      @EchoBaseNetwork  27 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Exactly!

    • @dbf1dware
      @dbf1dware 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Christopher Lee, Vincent Price, James Earl Jones, Ian McKellen, John Huston. I could listen to any of them read anything.

  • @Slam_duncan03
    @Slam_duncan03 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +33

    I agree with Christopher Lee, leaving this critical scene out of the theatrical cut was a big mistake, but thankfully that’s corrected in the extended cut.

    • @Overlord81
      @Overlord81 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      I've watch all the behind the scenes of the LOTR trilogy and there is a fun fact in that scene, you see Jackson wanted a drammatical fall for Saruman like: "AAAaaaaargh!"TONF! but Lee said "NO! I got stabbed in the back in real life...when you have pierced lungs you can't scream" Jackson accepted and the scene
      was even more drammatical.

    • @lindildeev5721
      @lindildeev5721 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Overlord81 Which he probably already told the director of The Man With The Golden Gun about when Moore shoots him dead.

    • @Overlord81
      @Overlord81 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@lindildeev5721 Oh yeah probably.

    • @ChaptermasterPedroKantor-kv5yw
      @ChaptermasterPedroKantor-kv5yw 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I agree that leaving that scene out was a big loss, but it adds more time to a movie that was already way too long. But as far as I'm concerned the extended cut is the ONLY cut. The theatricals are dead to me, I refuse to see them ever again, or own them on physical media, the extended cut is the only cut worth watching.

    • @Slam_duncan03
      @Slam_duncan03 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@ChaptermasterPedroKantor-kv5yw I disagree on the theatrical cuts being terrible. They’re awesome but the extended cuts are the way to watch them. Though it’s been a long time since I’ve seen the theatrical cuts.

  • @markgregorygacosta531
    @markgregorygacosta531 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    If Christopher Lee wasn't happy to some studio decisions in LOTR trilogy, just imagine his reaction to Amazon's Rings of Power😅

    • @teddybetts3254
      @teddybetts3254 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@markgregorygacosta531 Well fortunately he's not around to see it; probably spinning in this grave though.

    • @francoisregis2155
      @francoisregis2155 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Isssh bet you he wouldn’t be to happy

    • @Random_Banshee
      @Random_Banshee 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@markgregorygacosta531 If there‘s any semblance of silver lining to his passing, then yeah, it be the fact that he isn‘t around to witness Rings of Power.

  • @AncestorEmpire1
    @AncestorEmpire1 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    From what I heard (back in the day)
    It was a studio decision, one that Peter wasn’t happy with.

  • @carlosalfredolopezr.1709
    @carlosalfredolopezr.1709 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    Christopher Lee, a legend. RIP.

  • @TheKenthor
    @TheKenthor 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +21

    Just hearing him casually speaking "This man from the woods will never be king" is riveting.
    What a rare talent he was.

  • @bobbymauro3721
    @bobbymauro3721 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +31

    Let’s be clear. The fact that The Lord of the Rings was actually properly committed to celluloid is a miracle in itself! The fact that there were extended editions released shortly after is an even greater miracle!

    • @DanielJohn-xr7ly
      @DanielJohn-xr7ly 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Proper. Nah. We r still sliding down the slippery slope Jackson started. I was not impressed w the movies.

  • @SprocketListLiveUK
    @SprocketListLiveUK 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Hearing the intelligent, well read and well travelled Christopher Lee talk about LOTR with sincerity and knowledge makes me feel like I sometimes exist in a parallel universe. In my world people say “ah, you watching that boring fantasy film again dear?” and then they go to another room to watch The Kardashians. It’s wonderful to know you could have a great conversation with someone like Christopher Lee, and Henry Cavill, and they’d “get it” and don’t think you’re a bit weird (hopefully)😊

  • @RosiG73
    @RosiG73 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    The movie ending of Saruman and Grima Wormtongue is also completely different than what Tolkien wrote in the books.

  • @Kingofgondor4619
    @Kingofgondor4619 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    In my city last year they brought back The Lord of the Rings Trilogy Extended Edition to theatres, it was incredible seeing it on the big screen after so many years. These films came out when I was in High School great memories, too bad nothing great will happen like this in movie history.

  • @jasperswarp
    @jasperswarp 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    I met Christopher Lee at a book signing for his autobiography, he made it clear to everyone that he wasn’t signing any LOTR stuff, he definitely sounded super pissed mentioning it.

    • @charlieburrows7490
      @charlieburrows7490 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      yeah...saw the docon the discs...he seemed over aggravated by it. Tbh came across a bit sulky really but there you go.

    • @Chellebelle121
      @Chellebelle121 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      No disrespect intended, but no one can do aggravated, super pissed, AND sulky quite like an elderly Englishman.

  • @IvanGarcia-cx5jm
    @IvanGarcia-cx5jm 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Loved this video, thanks!

  • @dougpeet
    @dougpeet 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Honestly leaving Lee's death scene out was just plain bad movie making... How can you leave one of the major antagonists' storylines, already 7 hours into the story, left completely unresolved?

  • @palerider7171
    @palerider7171 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +18

    As Lee read the entire LoTR trilogy every year he had already made compromises for the film. Saruman (Sharkey) was actually killed by Grima in the Shire in the omitted “Scourging of the Shire”. What most casual fans don’t understand is that this is the point of the books, the Hobbits being able to defend and take care of Shire for themselves with the help of the ‘big folk’ (Rangers). Lee would have understood this and compromised to have the scene moved to Isengard, had instruct Jackson on what it really sounded like when someone is stabbed (something he apparently knew from working in the SAS), and then to have the scene cut was a big deal!

  • @jamesgoss1860
    @jamesgoss1860 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    The biggest mistakes of the theatrical versions of LOTR for me: removing the Boromir flashback in TTT, removing Saruman from ROTK, removing the scene of Aragorn releasing Brego in TTT. It's annoying watching Two Towers and hearing references to Faramir's "quality" with the context removed, or Aragorn whispering "Brego" when the horse picks him up. If you're going to cut a setup scene, you need to cut the payoff too or it just sounds weird. As for Saruman, it was only about 5 minutes, as if that was such a drastic addition to the movie's length.

    • @Bilski86
      @Bilski86 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      FOR GONDOR !!!
      FOR GONDOR !!!

    • @jamesgoss1860
      @jamesgoss1860 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Bilski86 Or one of my favorite lines “Do not trouble me with Faramir, I know his uses and they are few”

    • @Bilski86
      @Bilski86 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@jamesgoss1860 yeah. Hardcore huh? Especially seeing as Boromir was Denethors favorite. Yet he succumbed to the ring pretty easily.
      Yet our “useless” boy faramir isn’t even affected by it. (In the books). If Denethor sent faramir to the first council Boromir would still be alive

  • @slicerneons3300
    @slicerneons3300 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I can understand the disappointment.
    A real shame that they cut the scouring of the shire for time. Then, his backup end was further cut. That must have hurt.
    Extended Edition is the proper way to watch it.

  • @Parasmunt
    @Parasmunt 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Another way he was perfect for the role, Saruman was known for his voice which projects his enormous charisma and influence over those who hear it and Lee's voice is legendary.

  • @SoulHypnotic
    @SoulHypnotic 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Lee's tonal prowess could make a chemistry lesson sound like a Broadway production.

  • @paulemge9156
    @paulemge9156 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    I actually understand why Jackson did this, the Return of the King was already over 3 hours long and the Saruman story was over in the Two Towers. But I also see why Lee was upset.

    • @Slam_duncan03
      @Slam_duncan03 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      That scene contained critical plot and character information, it should have never been cut.

    • @paulemge9156
      @paulemge9156 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Slam_duncan03 not really. They only needed to get the Palantiri. What plot point and character information was needed in the ROTK?

    • @Slam_duncan03
      @Slam_duncan03 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@paulemge9156 all I know is that it should have never been cut.

  • @TheASSedoTV
    @TheASSedoTV 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Thank you very much for this episode, EBN and Coach in particular. It was such a relief to know they reconciled for The Hobbit.

    • @EchoBaseNetwork
      @EchoBaseNetwork  27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Glad you enjoyed it!

    • @TheASSedoTV
      @TheASSedoTV 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@EchoBaseNetwork one other thing I love this episode for is that it shows once again that you guys and TH-camrs like yourselves are not “professional haters”. You’re absolutely great at appreciating the beauty of filmmaking when it’s there! And absolutely spot on when it deserves criticism. Without hate or desire to downplay someone just for the hell of it or clicks.
      Big respect.

    • @carolinecraft2713
      @carolinecraft2713 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Amen!!

  • @ChristopherNealBUSHIDO49ERS
    @ChristopherNealBUSHIDO49ERS 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I became emotional watching this video. Great work, EBN! #RIPChristopherLee

  • @matthewgaudet4064
    @matthewgaudet4064 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Should not have cut the Scouring of the Shire. They gave the movie a Hollywood ending.

    • @Ichigo_Kurosaki27
      @Ichigo_Kurosaki27 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Scouring of the Shire was in the Galadriel mirror sequence in Fellowship of the Ring. Wasn't a complete cut though, and I believe that is a good decision for the adapting of such an epic story.

  • @misshavisham1287
    @misshavisham1287 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Love Mr. Lee but I think the film was edited well. He was also cast in the right role even though he wanted to be Gangalf

  • @carolinecraft2713
    @carolinecraft2713 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    What a great video! I thought I knew everything about LOTR. I remember seeing this in theatre but I always watch extended edition and probably forgot. I am completely with Christopher Lee that should have been in theatrical version. That really shows Christopher’s professionalism & kind of person he is to go on with it even though it ticked him off. He knew that true fan would want that continuity in Hobbit or at least that is my guess. There is not many other people who could have pulled that off. A great man that will always be missed!!

  • @denisvy7840
    @denisvy7840 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Glad it got put back into the DVD at least

  • @karnasaur
    @karnasaur 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    It kind of ruined the third film for me. Because Saruman didn't die at the start of the third film, as he did in the Extended Edition, I spent the whole film expecting him to pop up at the end, as he does in the book. So we get to the ending, and the second ending, and the third ending, etc., and I was sitting there waiting for the Scouring of the Shire, and then, nothing. I left disappointed.
    The Extended Edition is better, but my biggest complaint with Jackson's trilogy is leaving out that final action bit in the Shire. I've heard what he's said on the subject, and I just completely disagree. I think it is the summation of what Tolkien was saying in the Trilogy, not an unnecessary downer of an after-thought.

  • @kdkseven
    @kdkseven 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Shocking? This story's been around for decades.

  • @BloodguiltyGaming
    @BloodguiltyGaming 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Algo ⛽️ This video needs more likes, shares, and comments!!! PLEASE AND THANK YOU

  • @Davy.J.Y
    @Davy.J.Y 21 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It was a huge mistake not having Lee in the Return of the King . The extended edition was much better .

  • @GrafWeb
    @GrafWeb 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    #CancelDisneyPlus

  • @mikedegarmo3203
    @mikedegarmo3203 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I did not read the books until after seeing the films, so from the perspective of a novice, I was COMPLETELY confused as to where in the f&*k Saruman was. The fact that Gandalf had increased in power, and was seemingly on the same level as Saruman I was BEYOND excited to see Gandalf reveal his power to Saruman. To say I was disappointed, and confused when they all came, and then went without confronting Saruman would be a major understatement. Not including that scene was total stupidity.

  • @NR-rv8rz
    @NR-rv8rz 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Odd that Lee says Sauroman was the most evil when surely Sauron was.
    Also, in the books he doesn't die on the tower of Orthank, he survives the wars and goes off to destroy the Shire and meets his end in the same way there.
    For the movies, it would have been better to have included the scene. I disagree with Jackson on that one.

  • @Imylover
    @Imylover 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The theatrical cut of ROTK only showed Saruman & Grima peeping down from the tower, trapped. And that was it. It was indeed VERY underwhelmng seeing that in theaters. True, seeing the sequence in full in the extended cut a year later was massive. But the empty feeling from the theatrical version is a lingering memory that is hard to forget. First impression IS first impression. And I understand that you want to promote your longer version for the home market, & therefor get more money. but the extended cut of ROTK had so many other goodies to offer so it had been a financial success regardless for the home market. I agree with Lee & not with Jackson on this one. Peter had good intentions, no doubt. And who knows how much the studio also had a role to play in this editing? But it was unwise to disappoint & confuse the audience & their legendary actor & Tolkien expert.
    As a side note entirely; as much as I miss Christopher Lee, I am at the same time relieved he's not around to witness Rings of Power! That horrid abomination had destroyed him.

    • @carolinecraft2713
      @carolinecraft2713 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yes!! Don’t get me started on Rings of Power. Such an insult to Tolkien’s writing. I lasted about 15 min of 1st episode of 1st season and I was like Nope!!! I haven’t watched anymore since. I don’t know how anyone who has read the books can stand this show! You either honor the books or don’t do it at all. Don’t just make it up!!

  • @grokeffer6226
    @grokeffer6226 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I was a bit bummed that the Battle of Bywater was excluded from the screenplay, but there would have needed to have been a fourth movie, at the very least.

  • @Chellebelle121
    @Chellebelle121 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Well, whoever had the idea to nix his scene, I wonder if they actually made more money by doing so, in order for everyone wondering what happened to the renowned villain. He’s really all we actually see of a villain on screen for most of the time.

  • @theoconstantinou2839
    @theoconstantinou2839 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Saruman was part of The white council during the Hobbit, he just wasn’t mentioned by name

  • @AHSears
    @AHSears 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I understand being miffed at the idea. However, in the books, there is no satisfactory ending to Saruman's arc, it's simply left to fizzle out. If Christopher was such a lifelong fan of the books, he would've known this, and not only should he have been accepting of the change, but he should have also cautioned the fans toward understanding the reason for the change by revealing Tolkien's own decision to allow Saruman to live and fall out of repute in the way he did. I mean no disrespect to Lee, but the story itself had already been modified for the big screen, and the creative decision was not a personal one.
    Of course, these guys did repair their friendship within a few years.

  • @kitsworld
    @kitsworld 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    There's a scene in "Shakespeare In Love" in which someone asks the actor playing the Nursemaid, "What's Romeo and Juliet about", and he answers, "Well, there's this nursemaid...". That perfectly sums up the mind of the actor. He believes it is HIS role which is most important. Textbook egotism. And it was no different with Christopher Lee. He was butthurt that his death scene was cut. And he had a hissy fit. A tantrum. It was NOT a "shocking feud". It was a pretty standard "diva moment". No different from his tantrum about not being able to walk in his robe. "Well, you walked in it perfectly well this morning", answered Jackson.
    This is a video about nothing.

  • @habituallinestepper8839
    @habituallinestepper8839 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Love Christopher Lee.

  • @BloodguiltyGaming
    @BloodguiltyGaming 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    #WeAreYouAre

  • @HerveMendell
    @HerveMendell 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Actually, the ending of Saruman in the movies differed from the books, so it wasn't "canonical." But it is a great scene nonetheless. I think Peter Jackson did a superb job, and thats why the movies have been so successful, but my big beef is that they left out Tom Bombadil and the barrow wights. That to me was an egrigous omission. Jackson claimed that they didn't add to the story, yet in the Hobbit movies they just padded them out and put all kind of stupid and ridiculous scenes that weren't even in the book.

  • @kylepatrickmurphy4058
    @kylepatrickmurphy4058 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That's a bummer!

  • @jjphoenix4055
    @jjphoenix4055 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    that's all you've got? I read about this centuries ago....

  • @thomask9698
    @thomask9698 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Imagine if Lee would be alive and hired fore RoP, he would ripped apart the show runners

  • @BloodguiltyGaming
    @BloodguiltyGaming 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    GREAT VIEDO COACH! Thank you so much for covering this. I never knew anything about this...

  • @boatymcboatface666
    @boatymcboatface666 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    And Jackson was correct after all. Shame Jackson dived into The Hobbit, he was asked numerous times during filming of L.o.t.R's if he'd do the Hobbit, a resounding no was the answer.

  • @raquelcarvalho1583
    @raquelcarvalho1583 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Christopher Lee was the hero and Peter Jackson was the real villain in this fight.

  • @Geronimo_Jehoshaphat
    @Geronimo_Jehoshaphat 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thought I recognized your voice Coach.

  • @stevencarver-fd8ii
    @stevencarver-fd8ii 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Saruman was never at Helm’s Deep, so how could anyone think he would have been defeated there?

    • @kitsworld
      @kitsworld 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

      His death scene took place at Isengard.

    • @stevencarver-fd8ii
      @stevencarver-fd8ii 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@kitsworld In the video the EBN stated that Peter Jackson thought that people would assume Saruman was killed in the assault at Helm’s Deep, but like you stated he was killed in Isengard in the extended edition. But in the book he was killed in the Shire.

  • @xxxjoker607
    @xxxjoker607 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Marvellous actor he did Lee dirty

  • @jackwalsh6758
    @jackwalsh6758 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I'm sorry Pete Jackson (ooh), Chris is for real!

  • @frankg811
    @frankg811 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Did lucasfilm take down their channel ? I type in lucasfilm channel n nothing shows up!

  • @mondomacabromajor5731
    @mondomacabromajor5731 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Lee was annoyed with good reason ... a stupid editing decision.

  • @Randy-jl4sf
    @Randy-jl4sf 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You repeat yourself exactly at 2:30, why? I ask because I have found that this is occurring very often on numerous different channels.
    It's weird.

  • @slckb0y65
    @slckb0y65 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    of all actors, Christopher Lee is the one you wouldn't have wanted to piss off.
    let just say the guy explained to peter jackson how someone getting stabbed REALLY sounded like ...

  • @bobbob4614
    @bobbob4614 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    the sound quality in your mic is bad

    • @EchoBaseNetwork
      @EchoBaseNetwork  26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      How so?

    • @bobbob4614
      @bobbob4614 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@EchoBaseNetwork The sound changing volume when you talk like your moving away from mic in mid sentence. Also the volume in the video is higher than your mic recording.

  • @MaxBELTAR
    @MaxBELTAR 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    King of the saxons🎸🤘

  • @johnatkinson7126
    @johnatkinson7126 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    And yet no one gives a toss about the total ommission of glorfindel from the fellowship of the ring it was actually him who took frodo on his horse asfaloth to protect him the nazgul not arwen evanstar but supose they had to find something fo liv tyler to do for the 2million dollars she got paid

  • @thomasmore1964
    @thomasmore1964 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Christopher Lee was even a bigger bad@$$ in real life…

  • @Everescale
    @Everescale 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    🖖

  • @wonderchris7667
    @wonderchris7667 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    In fact lord Christopher Lee want to play Gandalf, but Peter Jackson choose him to play Saruman.

  • @BloodguiltyGaming
    @BloodguiltyGaming 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Just wanted to say it's BS Jackson did this!

  • @DanielJohn-xr7ly
    @DanielJohn-xr7ly 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Not shocking at all. Jackson butchered the book, in my opinion missing the entire point. Lee knew.

  • @chrisschultz6129
    @chrisschultz6129 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    "I hated the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit trilogies because the actor playing Gandolf was gay." - Said no one ever.

  • @VVhistory
    @VVhistory 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Yes, Lee was an avid literary and had a collection of first editions, he read the tolkien books in detail when he was younger. Lee was against jackson changing the books and for that reason Jackson ended Lee's acting by killing off Saruman earlier. I love the films but they are not an accurate source and it's funny because the fans of Jackson hate The rings of power when jackson literally was the amazon of the early 2000's; he and his cowritters altered the book in great measure.

  • @johnglover4453
    @johnglover4453 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Love the entire trilogy, but Return of The King is the weakest of the three movies; Chris not being in the theatrical release being only part of the reason. Even in the extended cut, Saruman's added scenes didn't make it any better.
    The first two movies are timeless masterpieces - theatrical and extended versions! The third movie was an absolutely visually stunning, though rambling bloated mess - AND, like a worm dying on a hook scene 1 tells you it did, it totally botched Saruman's story ;(

  • @Geronimo_Jehoshaphat
    @Geronimo_Jehoshaphat 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Christopher Lee loved the devil with all his soul.

  • @charleseldridge9365
    @charleseldridge9365 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Lee lied about his war service. This tells me everything about the man.