This is a very difficult debate with a lot of nuance but i think you spoke about it very well. I especially agree with the dead/alive point, i generally feel less icky if the author isn't alive and directly benefiting
An additional aspect is that if an author is dead, they can’t use the influence or money to do further harm. For me, it isn’t just about a bad person benefiting. It’s about my contribution to the harm they’re doing.
Hi there! I have no idea why this is being recommend all of a sudden, but I wanted to say that these were just some of my thoughts -- they are not facts :) More importantly, if you are not respectful in the comments i.e. if you abuse or threaten others your comment will be deleted. Thanks to everyone for being such a good sport! (: side note: Some of you have mentioned the J.K. Rowling book at the end. This video was made back in September 2019 and clearly the outro hasn't aged well at all 😅
Thank YOU for your thoughts on this! These are good guidelines, especially the consideration regarding living or dead authors and the impact that can have. Much respect. Have a great day!
It is likely being recommended with all the controversy around JK Rowling recently. I am happy I got to see it though. I usually approach my own reviews from a the older idea of death of the author, but I had never considered plagiarism. I do not think I would read a plagiarized text if I knew about it, because that's like reading fan fiction without ever have seen the original. An interesting thought.
Definitely agree, I don't feel icky reading a book by a problematic author, unless their views manifest themselves in the writing, however I'd never recommend them or support them monetarily. Thank god for librarys and charity shops! Really eloquent arguments, great video!
This is a debate that occures every few years or so in Norway. Knut Hamsun is one of the most well known norwegian authors. He won the Nobel prize of litterature. He was also a nazi. How do one treat his works? Should he have a statue in a flattering spot or a road named after him? He still have no statue or road. We read some of his work in school.
Interesting. I read most of Hamsun's novels (in translation) about 20 years ago - what mainly stays with me is his descriptions of suffering in "Hunger". One of the greatest children's books in the English language "Tarka the Otter" was written by a firm believer in Nazi ideas. I suppose that in general people have mistaken ideas, but occasionally create something extraordinary.
Well, i think you are doing good, you respect his work and you decide to read it at school, if you want to pay homenage to his work and his contribution to world literature,i think that is great and ENOUGH. We should keep statues to other figures ...
No statues for nazis. Period. I'm from Germany and we have no statues for Nazis. We have monuments for victims of the holocaust instead, as it should be. Every book of this author should have an introduction that talks about him being a Nazi. People should always have that context and then decide whether they want to read the books. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Also, I hope school curriculums that include his work also include books by Jewish authors. Several Jewish authors are part of the German literature curriculum because their voices were silenced for so long. Oh, and we don't read books by Nazis btw.
Maybe the kids can learn that not all talented people are good human beings. The boundary between the two often gets blurred as society tends to put every talented being on a pedestal. (Like in the case of actors)
The dead or alive rule is one I follow too. Although, I do have exceptions. Even though Hitler is dead, I will not read his book. I find it different than someone like Lovecraft because Hitler had so much power and killed so many people, and his book was written specifically to spread his ideology. Whereas Lovecraft helped pioneer a subgenre of horror, and his works were fictional. He also didn’t start a massive world war... that I know of
When you're a historian or simply very interested in WWII, it becomes inevitable that you'd have to read Mein Kampf. I haven't read it so far, but the more I read how Germans were forced to read it, I get curious on what exactly they were forced to read. For regular people though, don't even bother.
@QueenCloveroftheice Hitler's ideology failed and was defeated therefore I don't see why you wouldn't read 'Mein Kampf'. I haven't read it either but that's because I know the gist of what's in it.
I would say that there is a bulk of people who believe in the Hitler's ideas even without trying to read his book. On the other hand I would like to see an edition of his book with detailed commentaries from historians about the historical context and which of his saying there is actually true and what is a lie. I believe that it would be extremely helpful to understand the reasons of the rise of nazism (as well as the following tragedy) and the mindset beyond it, so humanity would have better chances to prevent such nightmarish tragedies in the future.
I actually started reading the Mein Kampf some years ago, but it was a complete waste of time. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. That book was written by Hitler for the mass, so his political view was a bit adapted to appeal to a vaste majority of people. I even found some contradictory statements in there: i recall reading that he cared about the elderly and the disabled, and that they should not suffer because it wasn't their fault that they didn't contribute anything to the society: that was obviously a lie. If someone wants to know more about Hitler's beliefs and political view i would recommend other books. The one i'm currently reading it's called "Hitler said to me" and its author is Hermann Rauschning. It's a compilation of real dialogues happened between Hitler and his closest men, when he could spoke about his ideas without holding back his true opinion about things
I definitely agree with the case by case basis!!! it's such a complicated topic to deal with.. you're so well spoken tho, this was a rly interesting video!! ^^
Yes exactly! All this stuff really isn't straight forward, but it's nice to be able to talk to other people about it :D Thank you very much for watching, really glad you enjoyed it! :D
I had the same issue with HP Lovecraft. I bought a collection of his stories only knowing that people really seemed to love him. After reading a few stories I came across blatant racism in one of them. I paused. I didn’t read anything for about 2 months while debating what I should do. I did some research. I came across a poem he wrote called ‘On the creation of N*****s’. This man is a vile racist, but he is undoubtably an amazing storyteller as well. In the end I skipped that particular story and finished the book. I decided I was ok reading it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The fact that he was dead definitely made it easier to make this decision. I did say that going forward, any time someone mentions him I would point out how problematic some of his beliefs were, just incase the other person was unaware or unwilling to acknowledge it. Thank you for this great content!
@@user-nb7gp4fk7j I believe it was called ‘the rats in the walls’. There was a black cat with a particularly offensive name. I’ve read that some of the later reprints of the story renamed the cat as to make it less offensive.
Most writers are problematic to someone. I read what interest me. Im not looking into someones background to see if they are a saint. Not even saints are perfect.
I also recently had a lot of thoughts about "cancel culture" pros and cons. I find it difficult to cancel or stop supporting somebody if there's no proof or the facts seem murky. I believe in giving people a second chance if they've admitted their bad behavior, have apologized and made amends and if they show they're wanting to change in a positive way. People make mistakes and nobody is perfect. It's great to hold them accountable for, but those hate messages and threats people write over the internet to "destroy" a person are horrendous. Why can't we be kinder to one another?
I feel like we judge people too harshly, especially on the internet. We don’t know the thoughts an feelings of other people, their experiences in life. Maybe we would have done the same if we were in their position, we can‘t know that. I don‘t want to excuse bad behavior. I just want to say, that we may not have the whole picture and shouldn’t be so harsh on other people’s mistakes. Nobody wants to be judged by strangers. I feel like we need to start a discussion about those important topics without loosing the respect for another human being we probably don‘t know very well (excuse my English, it is not my first language)
Art vs the artist - always an interesting topic for discussion. I think that there is never going to be a single solution and that it's a highly individual choice based on our own morals and ideals. I reserve the right to not support any author as I see fit (and for me it would never be for petty reasons) and I respect others to do the opposite if they feel so inclined, but I can't get behind the 'we should ALWAYS separate the art from the artist' mentality as I simply do not agree with that stance.TFS :)
@@therockingvolbeat3630 a large part? Considering psychology demonstrates clearly that the majority of people are hetrosexual I'd doubt it is a large part. Also what makes you think that gay and lesbian people are all accepting of the trans movement?
@@galinor7 did I say it was the majority? She's said things on Twitter like Dumbledore being gay and such, which has lead to LGBTQ people to like her and then shes completely contradicted herself. And the question about gay and lesbian people supporting trans people or not, do you not know what LGBT stands for? They are all part of it, so it makes sense for them to support each other.
I am so glad you mentioned HP Lovecraft. It's so true what you said about his influence on the horror genre and creators who were inspired so much by his work. It does get complicated. It does really help that he is dead and I think his work is now free in the public domain. His works also reveal and illuminate the terror/fear/fragility people can feel towards anyone or anything he saw as "other" or "the unknown." But my God, that man was a raging racist even for his time and I struggle with that. Also, I am happy your channel got recommended to me. I struggle with ADD which makes it hard for me to sit down and read books especially if they are long, but your videos have inspired me to medicate and give it another try. Edit: I also think you make really great points throughout this video but the Lovecraft one was particularly exciting to hear someone talk about it.
Hello! I'm a teacher from Mexico (a spanish teacher so a read a lot) and I'm trying to learn english. I'm really good in listening, but I really don't write or speak a lot. So I'm trying to practice. I star with this video and I'm really glad because you are really smart and funny and you have absolutely right. I think that you have to read not thinking so much in the autor, but when you think that you are helping to people think in that bad way (for you own morality), you have to evoid or al least try to not to buy his books. Uff... Comment this was really hard. I hope that you can understand me. I'm going to watch more of your videos!
I read both problematic authors and books. I want to know eveuthing about everything. But I'll buy it second hand as to not give money to said authors.
@@crose7412 Why is it problematic to equip yourself with insight from as many sources as possible, problematic and otherwise? We have to fight ignorance and work hard to understand human nature. I find myself more interested in learning about people that I'd consider 'bad' because I find their actions unfathomable -- the pursuit of that knowledge can only be productive.
@@crose7412 Unless I misunderstood, you questioned that Jackie Radley was problematic for wanting to read books from problematic and non problematic authors
Your video came up on my home page and as an author myself, I had to click. I loved your content, you present your case so well and I agree with everything you said. As someone who is trying to get a new TH-cam channel off the ground, I admire your editing skills too! This stuff is harder than people think. Thank you for reviewing books. Book reviewers are fab. I'm always grateful to anyone who reviews my work.
I just in general 🤷🏾♀️ I think humans are flawed, and we should exspose their misdeeds so that we don’t create rambunctious gods out of mere trash mortals . Now in my perfect world they simply wrote a good book.just because ppl read it wouldn’t mean the author gets a pass to let their hateful flag fly.And I hope they would feel humbled.
Outside of reviews, my thoughts go here: Should I buy it, or should I loan it from the library? There is a strong commitment by the library community (of which is a great deal more absolute in university and college libraries) to adhere to freedom of speech above all. If a book is problematic, it will go there. Sometimes it will only be available by request, but it will go there. For any problematic book in which I do not want to support, it becomes a loan with the problem in mind. If the book is unproblematic and I like it, I will probably buy it (in audiobook form, usually).
Seji this was such a brilliant discussion video! I think the cancel culture is increasing unfortunately, and I completely agree with your comments around that aspect too! You’ve given me lots to think about, thankyou!
I think it's virtually impossible to separate artist from art because your values, opinions and thoughts will undeniably end up in your work (whether you intend it to be like that or not)
Your opinions on this topic are well-considered and thoughtful. Thank you making this video. I prefer to read as broadly as possible and put problematic works in context. The only exception for me is that I will not read plagiarized works. So I guess I tend to judge the work rather than the author.
TH-cam finally got recommendations right, I've been looking for new booktubers and you're definitely the best yet! I love your style and poise, and you explain your thoughts in a clear and concise manner. Also the fact you're a horror fan made me instantly subscribe (along with your fashion sense and hair styling
I completely agree with it needing to be a case by case basis. There is so much nuance for example with authors who are willing to learn regarding their mistakes and also with classics where we don't know how the author would have responded to the present day society. It's difficult. I loved hearing you talk about it
Such a smart and well thought out way to look at problematic author. I agree with you, you have to look at historical context too. Cancelling books and movies that were written in a time where behaviors that these days are problematic, were 'normal' doesn't make sense.
This conversation is so important and your point of view is spot on! I love your brilliant mind!! ❤️ And I greatly appreciate your fearless approach to a multitude of controversial topics with grace and poise! You’re an amazing human being for so many reasons!
This is such a tough topic and one that not many people wish to discuss. We don't have the answers to everything but I do think your solution is great. Trust your gut and evaluate on a case by case basis.
I have recently heard arguments that you can see JK Rowling's prejudice in her writing (antisemitic undertones with the Gringots Goblins, transphobic undertones with Rita Skeeter, lack of diversity in Hogwarts, etc). I honestly don't know how to feel because I still love elements of HP, and if I were to write it off I would lose a lot of childhood nostalgia and comfort. I think I would take less issue with supporting the texts if the proceeds were not going towards problematic authors (like you said in your video!) but I am honestly more concerned about promoting materials with these undertones because that is the kind of thing that could create subconscious prejudice, especially in the minds of children. I would love to hear any nuanced opinions!
@afootineachworld I am still forming my opinion with this, but at first glance it seems pretty damning. The argument is basically that the descriptions of Rita Skeeter are stereotypes of transgender women (i.e. mannish features hidden by overtly fake hair, nails, teeth, gaudy attire, etc.). Further, in the books Skeeter is predatory and spies on the school children, which mirrors the *predator’s in the women’s restroom* argument that transphobic people make. This isn’t where I saw it, but this tweet has the main quotes in question. twitter.com/ponettplus/status/1270133803328159748
I never understood the goblin one? Like it's not like JKR invented those. They existed long before harry potter and before the nazi's misused them for their propaganda.
As for Lewis Carroll - real name Charles Dodgson...well. I recommend you get a copy of the Norton Critical Edition of Alice in Wonderland, because it contains a wealth of commentary and essays about him from contemporary and modern day historians, writers and critics. The allegations of pedophilia are gone into in considerable detail, as well as the position of children, and adult attitudes toward children in Victorian England. I have the third edition, printed in 2013. The commentaries might help you decide how you feel about him as a person. Also, heis parallel careers as a theoretical mathematician and a renowned photographer (yes - often of young children...) are covered in depth. Oh - and his religious attitudes as well...
Great discourse, Seji. I spoke lightly on this subject on Instagram but I think, personally, I am able to separate an artist and their work. To a degree. I think it says a lot about our society when, while randomly perusing bookshelves, one can haplessly select a book written by someone they later discover is problematic, unbeknownst to the everyday shopper. I remember buying two LGBTQ novels that were lauded as classics in the genre, only to later read reviews that those authors used deeply racist rhetoric and perpetuated negative stereotypes about non-whites. I think that - among many other dealbreakers, of course - is where I draw the line. Dead or alive, past or present, I would never consciously read nor validate any author with such a reputation. I think what bothers me most is when I see (majority white) readers today get so defensive about the "old white classics" of an era of literature that treated racism as commonplace, as if we're not suffering the consequences of those narratives today. It's one of the most insidious aspects of the bookstagram community that no one wants to talk about.
Thanks so much for your response Paris, I always appreciate your take on things!! It definitely says a lot about society. I feel that at times I'm also part of the problem, but I'm glad that I can recognise it and do better next time. I also totally agree with what you said concerning classics. I don't read many of them, but from what I've seen in these booktube/bookstagram streets is that there are certain books that get a lot of 'protection' which I don't think they deserve all that much.
I will read anything of interest to me and make my own judgement- I do not believe in censorship. However, the age of the reader does matter, and I would not recommend something that is not age appropriate. Also, I would not comment about an author’s work if I myself have not read them. You have covered some very important points here that people need to take into consideration. Thank you for your well informed thoughts.
God, I love your voice! Could listen to it for hours. On to the topic of the video: I love old books and a lot of those, sadly, are written by racist/sexist/etc. old men. Some of the books even have some of that in them. I try to rationalise it by remembering that these people lived more than 100 years ago and their books reflect their time. It doesn't mean they were right - they were not. But it's my job now, as a reader to reflect on what I read. I also believe that with old books, we should censor/edit out parts that can be hurtful to a group. F.e. I recently read a book from the 1880s where a character went on a misogynist monologue, and it was clearly the author speaking. I think that stuff should be edited out because everyone should be able to enjoy books, even old ones. (Just to be clear, this only goes for cases where it wouldn't take away from the story.)
That's an interesting point. By the way I would mark such an edition of a book as "edited", "adapted" or "shortened" because I believe that a reader should know if the edition he or she reads has any change regarding to the original text.
You made some really good points. I would add two things: first of all, I do think there is a difference between if someone said something and if they did something, someone saying something chauvinistic or racist (or at least that is perceived as such, with Twitter today people say things that are misconstrued all the time) it is way less bad than someone doing something bad (beating their wife, harassing someone because of their race, etc). Second, I think it's a real shame that I have to miss out on an amazing reading experience because the author is shitty, maybe take the book out from the library (especially if it's something that they'll probably have a copy of and won't need to specifically request it, like Ender's Game) so that we can still experience the good they created without letting them benefit. I think this is a tricky issue. If someone said something bigoted but their books taught people to be good to each other, have the people joy, doesn't the good outweigh the bad at some point? It's definitely not a black and white issue.
I feel and agree on your second point especially since you bring up Ender's Game. I only recently learned how problematic Card is and of course it's when I'm a little over halfway through Ender's Game and have the first Alvin Maker book in my to-read stack. At least neither were bought new, Ender's Game even being free since it's my friend's old copy that he's read something like five times now and wanted to pass on. But I've been debating what to do next since I really am enjoying Ender's Game and the only thing I've come to is to try and enjoy the stories without giving him my monetary support by finding used copies of the rest of the series or checking them out at the library. I know there's still the issue of his influence, but at least he can't use my money for his bigotry.
But taking books from the library does benefit them? Writers still receive money when books are taken from libraries, and they also continue to receive publishing deals because they’re popular authors who are frequently ‘borrowed’. Additionally, this means they receive publishing deals over people whose voices may be more beneficial for us to hear?
Oh my god, I love your editing!! I always think this is an interesting topic, especially considering some authors today. I think I agree with on taking it on a case by case basis as well as if the author would profit from you talking about their work. I don't like the idea of never reading problematic authors because if you know why they are problematic and it shows up in their work, it can be talked about and people made aware.
Very interesting topic! I, for example, couldn't finish reading Peter Pan because immediately beforehand I had read a biography about J. M. Barrie where it was mentioned that he had adopted 3 boys and they all committed suicide, possibly because he sexually harassed and / or assaulted them. So that made Peter Pan such an impossibility for me. Even the thought of Barrie being so fascinated with childhood and adolescence that he wrote a whole book about a boy who doesn't grow up really messed with my head. Even though there were just allegations and he was never in court or convicted of any crime, I could not separate accusation from the art. It was a horrible experience for me.
Great video! ❤️ I recently learned Roald Dahl's anti-semite comments and will not read his books anymore. That kids should be more aware. There was a mention of Rudyards Kipling's imperialist views in the Jungle book preface. He's not my favourite author but I read on with a historical point of view. I also heard of Lewis Carroll behavior accusations. One biographir made the case that Victorian was a more spiritual society and the innocence...children seen as cherubs..Parents were asked permission. 🤔 I do the same as you: case by case and by my gut feelings
This idea of historical context is an interesting one. Is it fair to judge people in history against our current values and belief systems? If so, where is the cutoff date, how much time has to go by, how far in the past does the person have to have lived before we should accept it? It's an interesting question. you are talking about antisemitism, what about Shakespeare?" The Merchant of Venice". The Jewish money lender named "Shylock" who demanded a pound of flesh, that is certainly a very antisemitic stereotype, should we not read or see any of his plays because of that, or should we look at him and his beliefs in the context of the time in which he lived when everybody hated Jews. Wagner was a terrible antisemite, Hitler's favorite composer, should we never listen to his music? I remember there was a big debate around whether the Israel Symphony should perform his music. My personal opinion is, I will not contribute to someone financially, but that's it,if someone was a murderer,a rapist,a racist, and they are long dead or alive, but I will not be giving them money, and they created a great piece of art, like a movie, music book ect, I'm all in. There are no problematic authors, there are only problematic people that happen to be authors.
I agree that it's a complex issue but I think you discussed it in a very nuanced way! I just wanted to add, though, that liking children definitely wasn't seen as accepted or normal during the time Lewis Carroll lived (though, from what I've read, it's not confirmed that he liked children or/and had any inappropriate relationships with them)
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I agree with dead vs alive thing as well! I think that whether or not the rhetoric they have affects their work or not is what is really decisive for me.
Well done! Enjoyed the thoughtful way you approached this subject. Lovecraft continues to be lauded for his writing, but his virulent racism removes some of the esteem. I haven’t been able to read his books. I don’t think I will either.
Thank you for watching! And you're definitely right on that, I found that some of his work as well is filled with it and in a really perpetuating way, so I've declined reading it as well.
In the end, choosing to read books by a problematic author is a personal choice and I thinks it's important to respect others people decisions. I've heard people insult other people that choose to still read those books, saying things like" you're the same as the author" or "it means that you agree with that kinda of thought". I really dislike that kind of attitude honestly. There is so much nuance in this subject even by what is considered problematic in the first place. Also I totally agree with the fact that historical context is sooo important and I feel like not enough people take that into consideration.
100% with what you're saying especially the dead or alive part it's much more difficult to support someone when they are alive and pushing that ideology. Also there is a bunch of racism in the western canon even thrown in causally but as modern readers we have the ability to recognize it and the time period it's from. Also last thing on your last point Heidegger was part of the Nazi party but his work Time and Being has nothing to do with Nazi ideology so I agree that in cases where it doesn't influence the work in a profound way it's not necessary to bring up.
Have you checked out the tv show 'Lovecraft Country'? Its on HBO I think and centers a young Black American man in 1950's Chicago and mixes the context of the horrific racism of that era with Lovecraftian inspired monsters. Really interesting, some episodes give me vibes similar to the film 'Get Out'
This was a great video and a really in-depth discussion. Thank you for making this! I always love listening to your discussions on difficult topics -- you navigate everything so well and leave everyone with tons to think about!
for me it completely depends on WHAT the author did and WHEN they did it (if they are still alive). Would I read a book by someone who had racist thoughts and prejudices like 90 years ago? Yes. Would I read a book by someone who killed/physically harmed someone because of their race, no matter how long ago? No, I’d feel very uncomfortable reading the words of such an evil human being. Also for me reading a book is way more enjoyable when you can relate to the author in some way or at least like something about them.
I’m new to your channel and currently binging your videos! I’ve just got to say: I agree with EVERY SINGLE THING you said in this video. Your explanation is so balanced, reasonable, and salient. Currently watching your “The Big Problem with Booktube” video now and kicking myself that I haven’t found out about you sooner. Thank you for being you!! Can’t wait to see more of your videos! 🥰🙏🌈😻✨
I really don't comment on TH-cam often, and we are both human, so I know there are things that we would disagree with, but I just have to say this: wow! You are really well spoken, polite, funny and make great cases for this topic. I absolutely agreed with you on this and I can tell that you have a critical and skeptical mind. I wish there were more people like you on the internet. It was a pleasure to watch this!
I loathe the term “cancel culture” because I feel like more often than not people just use the term as an excuse to belittle those who are holding others accountable, and not to mention nobody really ever gets “cancelled” anyway, there will always be people who will support other people regardless of what they do or say. I think there’s this really tricky spectrum where blindly supporting people and being overly critical are at each end, and it’s quite hard to find a balance in the middle. I used to be very hyper-vigilante and quick to cut off support of or attention to certain people and works but in doing so, I wasn’t requiring myself to stop and think critically, much like immediately dismissing problematic behavior as simply “cancel culture” also doesn’t require you to think critically because of the immediate judgment. I still don’t personally think you can entirely separate art from an artist, because they are incorporating their own personal thoughts, beliefs, and morals into their creations one way or another, but I do think it is crucial to critically enjoy things (where appropriate of course, as some topics are truly just not up for debate like racism, pedophilia, etc if they’re just being glorified, normalized, and praised) and recognize when things are problematic so you can have productive conversations. Never enjoying things because there are problematic elements or dismissing problematic elements because you want to enjoy things are both unproductive approaches that are unfortunately very easy to succumb to since they don’t require thoughtful conversation.
I also dislike that it discourages the possibility for humans to change. Like certain things are definitely unforgivable and people should be held accountable even the ones which aren't. But how are people going to learn to change their minds if they aren't given the opportunity to do so? That was quite inarticulate, but I'm running on like no sleep. I hope whoever reads this rambling gets what I mean.
I love the way you talked about this. I agree with dead/alive author situation. It is extremely important to stop supporting everything that does not help anymore in any area of life. Books included. Beautifully expressed.
This just came up as recommended for me. I think it's a great topic for today. I totally agree with everything you said here. You are so eloquent and wise. :)
I think I see eye to eye with you on every point you made. I think for someone who is passionate about literature it’s important to note that humans are flawed and historical contexts will shape our reality in different ways. I personally think it’s vital to explore different authors of different morals so that we can better understand our own stance and strengthen our understanding of what is “wrong” and “right”
I totally agree with you. I just finished reading A House for Mr. Biswas by VS Naipaul who was known for his racist commentary as well. I really liked the book though. The man is a no go.
I've been absent from YT and the socials for so long, and Gurl, your channel has grown :D Congratz on that! I remember a post on Instagram you made, concerning Neil deGrasse Tyson and wether to still support his work, now that he was being accused. And yes, it is such a difficult question. I love your apporach though, decinding on a case to case basis, allowing some room. Cancel culture is the worst, though. Nowadays people get cancelled for a misstep during one tweet and no matter how many times they apologize or try to do better, once the internet mob has made a judgment... there is hardly a comeback. Even if those people apologize and try to do better. Cancel culture never helps, neither the accused nor those trying to make a case.
Thank you very much!! Yeah I've been gone for some time as well hahah, glad we're both back!! :D Yes exactly that's where it started, it's such a tricky situation indeed. And yeah cancel culture is so exhausting, I think it also plays into this mindset of not viewing things critically and just jumping on the bandwagon - not to say that there aren't any people who do absolutely deserve cancellation. But yeah that's really one of the downsides of social media unfortunately!
Have been thinking about making a similar video myself, but have felt a bit overwhelmed by what I feel might easily become a much more complex topic than what I have capacity for atm.. Nice to see someone make it short and simple. Personally I think historical context is key... if there is a cultural awareness of the prejudice and violence behind a work it allows people to engage critically, and protect themselves against potential subliminal messaging in what they read.
I really enjoyed this video. You are always very concise and it's clear you put a lot of thought into it. I agree the accused vs guilty aspect is especially hard. Thanks for this video!
This is such an interesting discussion. I think a positive about our general access to information these days, and even social media, allows us to be more aware of people and companies that we do or do not wish to support. Still, it’s a very nuanced thing and when it comes to authors, I agree it’s a bit of a case by case thing. Jameela Jamil, an actress, has touched on this in an interview before (I can’t remember which) about cancel culture. In short, she doesn’t think it does any good because 1) people who tend to get canceled are often doing just fine in the end, and 2) “canceling” someone doesn’t allow or encourage growth from the person who has done something wrong.
Yeah that is so incredibly true, the moment you sensor a person is the moment they get a huge amount of support because a lot of people value freedom of speech more than that they actually care to look at the person and see what kind of harmful things they're doing. It just doesn't work.
@@TheArtisanGeek That's a great point. Not enough people take the time to understand all sides of an issue. They just kind of see one small section of one side, if ever both sides. It's something I'm honestly working on, which is to get the whole story for things before jumping to conclusions or forming a full opinion on something.
I tend to not look up authors. And it’s not because I don’t think it matters. It’s just that I’m a teacher in school so I’m just picking up books in my free time just to calm myself. I could have more discernment but I just don’t look it up. I do care, but I have more discernment in other areas. BUT if I hear about the author before I ever pick up the book, I won’t read it. And if I find out after I read it, I won’t suggest it to someone else OR I will tell the next person about it. But I’m not a reader. I have no platform. So if I had a platform I’d definitely think further into it.
Poor Lovecraft. You are absolutely correct. I wish his bad reputation didn't hurt his existing work as much as it does. He suffered so much with a mental and financial breakdown in his life. He lived in an era where help was not available. He never received any acclaim or money for his work.
This is a topic I have been thinking about a lot lately - but you said it better than I could have. I think it has to be a gut feeling. Also just wanted to say - love your channel and have subbed!
I read that Lewis Carroll wanted to marry Alice but only when she came of age which seems strange now but wasn't as strange in the nineteenth century and the reason Alice's family got upset with him is that they wanted him to marry their eldest daughter who was still only around 14 but he didn't want to
Your take is very much like my own. I have struggled with one living author, however. I guess the closer to your heart the art is, the more difficult it can be to reconcile. I'm in my 50's, and in the last 10 years I discovered that the author of a book that I have adored and has even helped form some of who I have become was written by somebody who has issues with homosexuality. I suppose I should have expected it, once I learned he was a devout Mormon. But then he actually said something in an interview, and it was no longer just speculation. I'm constantly questioning myself on where I stand now. Not on homosexuality of course, but on this issue of *art vs the artist.* I'm not entirely sure how I should handle this. I'm certainly not going to support him going forward. But when it comes to this particular work that I have read more times than any other, I struggle. Those brought up in religious groups like this may be closed minded, but they think they're doing right. And shouldn't it be okay for him to _believe_ this if he doesn't make a conscious and deliberate effort to push this belief? Granted, I have not read all of his work. But it doesn't have anything to do with the specific book I have loved in any way. It's never addressed in the story at all. Not even in subtext. And I still don't know enough about his belief as a whole. From what I know, I don't believe he dislikes anyone that happens to be a homosexual. I think he just believes that it's a sin. I _think_ he's one of those _hate the sin not the sinner_ types. Which might be a more respectable form of ignorance. 🤷🏼♂️ Perhaps I'm just being an apologist. Anyhow, it's been a struggle. Particularly when I look around me and I don't see how my liking this particular book impacts anyone else either. I purchased the book decades ago. I have read it many times. It is brought me great value. And the things I have learned from it have brought value to those I have come across in life. All that said, my particular scenario (and those in a similar situation¹) which I am discussing seems to be a very quiet and personal situation. I acknowledge the authors messed up beliefs. They are not in the book. Nobody knows when or if I'm reading this anyway. So then I'm constantly asking myself, _does any of what the author thinks of homosexuality matter at all?_ Or again, am I just being an apologist? I'm not gay. But perhaps I should be more sensitive to those in my position that are. I've always felt there was great importance in the understanding that when one stands up to such things *alone,* where no one can see, _that's when it matters most._ That's possibly how you know _who you really are_ and _what you really believe._ I have found HP Lovecraft to be a little easier to read,² despite the racist elements within the books. Partially because I've never read his letters. I know they've been published at one time. But more because I see it as beliefs infused into a character within a story. And many so-called scientists of the day had really messed-up belief systems. And what better character to expose to the incomprehensible elements of the universe and have go crazy? 😏 Anyway, I appreciate you making a video on this. Some people may not even realize that this can be problematic. •••●●●••• *¹* Living alone. Not a public figure. No pulpit whatsoever. Quietly reading, then moving on to the next book. *²* Edit: also because I started reading him when I was a teenager in the 80s. So there's a lot of baggage there regarding nostalgia, and the blossoming of my appreciation for such work.
This is something I've been thinking about and discussing a lot lately, and I definitely agree that this is a really nuanced topic that really depends on a lot of factors. For me personally, I am mostly able to separate the art from the artist, unless the artist's misdeeds are apparent within the art. For example, I still read lots of literature by problematic people, but I am not going to be watching any movies by Woody Allen anymore because his problematic behavior is also apparent in his films - and also, I personally just wouldn't want to see the person. With a book, at least I don't have to look at the person who wrote it. I just feel that if we were to boycott all art created by problematic people, we'd barely have anything left. This isn't to say that all crimes are equal, because most certainly some things are way, way worse than others (pedophilia, sexual abuse, murder, etc). However, I just think that regardless of whoever the artist was/is, as soon as their art is created it becomes its own entity that should be judged for itself and its artistic merit and impact on the world. For example, Pablo Picasso was an extremely problematic person who abused the women who were his muses, yet it can't be denied that his work had a massive influence on art history. I also definitely agree about the dead/alive thing. If the person is still alive, I'm definitely not going to support them in any way by buying their work or funding anything. Overall, I don't think it's problematic to enjoy art from problematic artists, though I do understand the inhibition that people have about it.
I am also a big fan of HP Lovecraft and am very much aware of how his racism sneaked its way into a lot of his writing - for some reason, though, the feelings of terror from those stories is what is important.
Its funny how problematic authors are usually the best. I go with the adige that the author is dead after the book is published, despite the author's human failings the story/song/artwork/whatever will live on long past the time the reputation of the author has any relevance to the art in question. As a wise man once said... “No one remembers the singer. The song remains.” ― Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero
Yes I was thinking about this recently and come to think of it, it might be that since they are so talented and successful, people listen more carefully to what they have to say/ they face more scrutiny than say an author whose work isn't that popular. But who knows, really.
totally agree with you! I really believe in separating the art from the artist; just because someone didn't share my views doesn't mean their work is worthless, especially taking historical context into account. I'm still willing to read books by living authors that are problematic, but while they are alive I won't buy their books or give them any financial support. I'll just get their books from the library instead of contributing to their wealth.
Another great and thoughtful video! On your accused/guilty point I would possibly veto that for authors who have written memoirs about their criminal past because 1) they're often reformed which has motivated their writing and 2) they can be an insight into the 'criminal' section of society which is quite often misunderstood and misrepresented. On this note would recommend Monster by Sanyika Shakur and Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts (good on audiobook).
I think the algorithm put this on my path. Good points. My opinion is whether someone is okay with TERFs, SWERFS, transphobes, homophobes, racists, etc is subjective. However, nobody should EVER read plagiarizers. That is an unforgivable crime in the reading/writing world.
Such an interesting video, so refreshing hearing this kind of debate from a booktuber. I completely agree with the cancel culture in a way that these days only for saying your opinion twitter can get on fire, literally, like maybe that person make a mistake or is just stating his/her opinion, you can disagree but these days seems that some debates are just out of discussion (and I am not talking about J.K, I personally didn't like some of her opinions and ideology years ago, like when the books came out but that doesn't make me wanting to remove all of her books and not read her again. I disagree about what she said completely by the way). So in my case if a writer has written a masterpiece or is really well known for his/her books I think I will read them or at least try to approach her/his work. It is true that I have limits as you said writers that proclaim themselves misogynist or racist and express those views in his/her books is a bye for me, if I feel curiosity maybe I will borrow the book at the library I don't want to give money to those people. Same for books that are related to love for kids, there are those kind of books, it's a totally NO for me. It came out a book not so long ago I know the translation in Spanish but not the English title, I read some parts online and it was disgusting, like the scenes btw this adult man and this girl, there are ways of writing about sexual abuse and that one was just pornographic. I can't stand those kind of books. A big NO I also respect the context of the books, I've read some books from the 50s where women were represented as silly companions of the men or just as housewives and so on, I understand is the context where it was written. Same for the movies.
After watching 3/5 of this, I immediately subscribed. You are articulate and thoughtful. I also struggle with Lewis Caroll since I adore Alice's stories. You are absolutely right, we should be careful when reading literature with our modern lens and biases. Just like any literature, there are many different ways to view and analyse these works. Thank you for pointing out the 'not feeling as icky when reading someone who's dead' because I feel the same but could never say it so succinctly.
As a writer myself, I very much enjoyed your presentation. You did a very good job, and gave some good food for thought. BTW, I recommend G.K. Chesterton. I think you'll find him quite intriguing.
I loved your video, I'm French and i can understand you very well so thank you for that. I like that you talk about that subject because I often ask myself that kind of questions and this is really hard to answer it. This question come with every type of arts.
with the Guilty or Accused thing: I handle that how the justice system does it (at least here in Germany), everyone is innocent until you are convicted.
For my part, I can read books by authors I despise as long as the book doesn't reflect the reasons I despise them, though I do try not to send money their way. For example, Orson Scott Card holds some views I find abhorrent but I still will read books he writes as long as those views aren't reflected in them, but I will borrow them from a library or something. Others, I've stopped reading because their awful views started to show up in their writing, like Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International books, which went from fun adventures to right-wing soapboxing once Correia got butthurt because he felt progressive-minded authors got all the awards. Another variable is the historical context, so that you can read an old book that reflects outdated views and dislike those outdated views while understanding they were the norm then and focusing on the book's merits. That's what works for me, at least.
This is a very interesting discussion video, it's nice to hear what your thoughts on some of the different topics from your POV on some important topics. It doesn't take away the fact that people have some sort of flaws, but it's nice to hear what people think about things like, Dead or Alive and Racism.
I have weird feelings about this. For instance I have read a couple memoirs by people on death row for murder and the insight into the prison system I think was valuable. But i wouldn't read a living author who killed someone and then just wrote like... A romance or whatever
your hair is so cute! just had to point that out
Thank you very much!! :)
Literally why I clicked
@@seraphina2293
Same tho.
I'm a new published author who's promoting a Scifi novel named Genmist Goes to Brooklyn
This is a very difficult debate with a lot of nuance but i think you spoke about it very well. I especially agree with the dead/alive point, i generally feel less icky if the author isn't alive and directly benefiting
An additional aspect is that if an author is dead, they can’t use the influence or money to do further harm. For me, it isn’t just about a bad person benefiting. It’s about my contribution to the harm they’re doing.
Hi there! I have no idea why this is being recommend all of a sudden, but I wanted to say that these were just some of my thoughts -- they are not facts :) More importantly, if you are not respectful in the comments i.e. if you abuse or threaten others your comment will be deleted. Thanks to everyone for being such a good sport! (:
side note: Some of you have mentioned the J.K. Rowling book at the end. This video was made back in September 2019 and clearly the outro hasn't aged well at all 😅
Thank YOU for your thoughts on this! These are good guidelines, especially the consideration regarding living or dead authors and the impact that can have.
Much respect. Have a great day!
It is likely being recommended with all the controversy around JK Rowling recently. I am happy I got to see it though.
I usually approach my own reviews from a the older idea of death of the author, but I had never considered plagiarism. I do not think I would read a plagiarized text if I knew about it, because that's like reading fan fiction without ever have seen the original. An interesting thought.
I'd imagine because of the JK Rowling controversy
The gods of the algorithm hath smiled upon thee!
@@harrypotteravenclaw for sure. I assumed at first this was her latest video :þ
Definitely agree, I don't feel icky reading a book by a problematic author, unless their views manifest themselves in the writing, however I'd never recommend them or support them monetarily. Thank god for librarys and charity shops! Really eloquent arguments, great video!
This is a debate that occures every few years or so in Norway. Knut Hamsun is one of the most well known norwegian authors. He won the Nobel prize of litterature. He was also a nazi. How do one treat his works? Should he have a statue in a flattering spot or a road named after him? He still have no statue or road. We read some of his work in school.
He is a great writer. His book Pan is phenomenal.
Interesting. I read most of Hamsun's novels (in translation) about 20 years ago - what mainly stays with me is his descriptions of suffering in "Hunger". One of the greatest children's books in the English language "Tarka the Otter" was written by a firm believer in Nazi ideas. I suppose that in general people have mistaken ideas, but occasionally create something extraordinary.
Well, i think you are doing good, you respect his work and you decide to read it at school, if you want to pay homenage to his work and his contribution to world literature,i think that is great and ENOUGH. We should keep statues to other figures ...
No statues for nazis. Period. I'm from Germany and we have no statues for Nazis. We have monuments for victims of the holocaust instead, as it should be.
Every book of this author should have an introduction that talks about him being a Nazi. People should always have that context and then decide whether they want to read the books. Personally, I wouldn't do it.
Also, I hope school curriculums that include his work also include books by Jewish authors. Several Jewish authors are part of the German literature curriculum because their voices were silenced for so long. Oh, and we don't read books by Nazis btw.
Maybe the kids can learn that not all talented people are good human beings. The boundary between the two often gets blurred as society tends to put every talented being on a pedestal. (Like in the case of actors)
The dead or alive rule is one I follow too. Although, I do have exceptions. Even though Hitler is dead, I will not read his book. I find it different than someone like Lovecraft because Hitler had so much power and killed so many people, and his book was written specifically to spread his ideology. Whereas Lovecraft helped pioneer a subgenre of horror, and his works were fictional. He also didn’t start a massive world war... that I know of
When you're a historian or simply very interested in WWII, it becomes inevitable that you'd have to read Mein Kampf. I haven't read it so far, but the more I read how Germans were forced to read it, I get curious on what exactly they were forced to read. For regular people though, don't even bother.
@QueenCloveroftheice Hitler's ideology failed and was defeated therefore I don't see why you wouldn't read 'Mein Kampf'. I haven't read it either but that's because I know the gist of what's in it.
I would say that there is a bulk of people who believe in the Hitler's ideas even without trying to read his book. On the other hand I would like to see an edition of his book with detailed commentaries from historians about the historical context and which of his saying there is actually true and what is a lie. I believe that it would be extremely helpful to understand the reasons of the rise of nazism (as well as the following tragedy) and the mindset beyond it, so humanity would have better chances to prevent such nightmarish tragedies in the future.
I actually started reading the Mein Kampf some years ago, but it was a complete waste of time. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. That book was written by Hitler for the mass, so his political view was a bit adapted to appeal to a vaste majority of people. I even found some contradictory statements in there: i recall reading that he cared about the elderly and the disabled, and that they should not suffer because it wasn't their fault that they didn't contribute anything to the society: that was obviously a lie. If someone wants to know more about Hitler's beliefs and political view i would recommend other books. The one i'm currently reading it's called "Hitler said to me" and its author is Hermann Rauschning. It's a compilation of real dialogues happened between Hitler and his closest men, when he could spoke about his ideas without holding back his true opinion about things
Well, it's a garbage read so you're not missing out. If anything, reading his book only reaffirms what a looney tune he was.
I definitely agree with the case by case basis!!! it's such a complicated topic to deal with.. you're so well spoken tho, this was a rly interesting video!! ^^
Yes exactly! All this stuff really isn't straight forward, but it's nice to be able to talk to other people about it :D Thank you very much for watching, really glad you enjoyed it! :D
I had the same issue with HP Lovecraft. I bought a collection of his stories only knowing that people really seemed to love him. After reading a few stories I came across blatant racism in one of them. I paused. I didn’t read anything for about 2 months while debating what I should do. I did some research. I came across a poem he wrote called ‘On the creation of N*****s’. This man is a vile racist, but he is undoubtably an amazing storyteller as well. In the end I skipped that particular story and finished the book. I decided I was ok reading it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The fact that he was dead definitely made it easier to make this decision. I did say that going forward, any time someone mentions him I would point out how problematic some of his beliefs were, just incase the other person was unaware or unwilling to acknowledge it. Thank you for this great content!
Do you remember the name of the story where you encountered that blatant racist passage?
@@user-nb7gp4fk7j I believe it was called ‘the rats in the walls’. There was a black cat with a particularly offensive name. I’ve read that some of the later reprints of the story renamed the cat as to make it less offensive.
Most writers are problematic to someone. I read what interest me. Im not looking into someones background to see if they are a saint. Not even saints are perfect.
Omggg!!! The fit??? The hair??? It’s giving me everything!!! U r so cute❤️
I also recently had a lot of thoughts about "cancel culture" pros and cons. I find it difficult to cancel or stop supporting somebody if there's no proof or the facts seem murky. I believe in giving people a second chance if they've admitted their bad behavior, have apologized and made amends and if they show they're wanting to change in a positive way.
People make mistakes and nobody is perfect. It's great to hold them accountable for, but those hate messages and threats people write over the internet to "destroy" a person are horrendous. Why can't we be kinder to one another?
You are absolutely right tbh
If people make amends then sure. If they double down i have no problem with cancelling them personally
I feel like we judge people too harshly, especially on the internet. We don’t know the thoughts an feelings of other people, their experiences in life. Maybe we would have done the same if we were in their position, we can‘t know that. I don‘t want to excuse bad behavior. I just want to say, that we may not have the whole picture and shouldn’t be so harsh on other people’s mistakes. Nobody wants to be judged by strangers. I feel like we need to start a discussion about those important topics without loosing the respect for another human being we probably don‘t know very well (excuse my English, it is not my first language)
Art vs the artist - always an interesting topic for discussion. I think that there is never going to be a single solution and that it's a highly individual choice based on our own morals and ideals. I reserve the right to not support any author as I see fit (and for me it would never be for petty reasons) and I respect others to do the opposite if they feel so inclined, but I can't get behind the 'we should ALWAYS separate the art from the artist' mentality as I simply do not agree with that stance.TFS :)
Thanks for sharing your opinion! Yes I totally agree, I don't believe in policing what others read, I wouldn't want others to do that to me either!
Time to revisit this re. JK Rowling lolol
@@dcxxxx doesn't mean she should blatantly state her opinion when she knows a big number of her audience is part of the LGBTQ community
@@dcxxxx trans women are women
Good woman. Good books.
@@therockingvolbeat3630 a large part? Considering psychology demonstrates clearly that the majority of people are hetrosexual I'd doubt it is a large part. Also what makes you think that gay and lesbian people are all accepting of the trans movement?
@@galinor7 did I say it was the majority? She's said things on Twitter like Dumbledore being gay and such, which has lead to LGBTQ people to like her and then shes completely contradicted herself.
And the question about gay and lesbian people supporting trans people or not, do you not know what LGBT stands for? They are all part of it, so it makes sense for them to support each other.
I am so glad you mentioned HP Lovecraft. It's so true what you said about his influence on the horror genre and creators who were inspired so much by his work. It does get complicated. It does really help that he is dead and I think his work is now free in the public domain. His works also reveal and illuminate the terror/fear/fragility people can feel towards anyone or anything he saw as "other" or "the unknown." But my God, that man was a raging racist even for his time and I struggle with that.
Also, I am happy your channel got recommended to me. I struggle with ADD which makes it hard for me to sit down and read books especially if they are long, but your videos have inspired me to medicate and give it another try.
Edit: I also think you make really great points throughout this video but the Lovecraft one was particularly exciting to hear someone talk about it.
Hello! I'm a teacher from Mexico (a spanish teacher so a read a lot) and I'm trying to learn english. I'm really good in listening, but I really don't write or speak a lot. So I'm trying to practice. I star with this video and I'm really glad because you are really smart and funny and you have absolutely right. I think that you have to read not thinking so much in the autor, but when you think that you are helping to people think in that bad way (for you own morality), you have to evoid or al least try to not to buy his books.
Uff... Comment this was really hard. I hope that you can understand me. I'm going to watch more of your videos!
Hello there! I live in Greece and I'm here watching videos of this amazing channel and checking the comment section for the exact same reason :)
I read both problematic authors and books. I want to know eveuthing about everything. But I'll buy it second hand as to not give money to said authors.
@Jackie Radley Is it possible that it's you, rather than the authors, who is problematic?
@@crose7412 Why is it problematic to equip yourself with insight from as many sources as possible, problematic and otherwise? We have to fight ignorance and work hard to understand human nature. I find myself more interested in learning about people that I'd consider 'bad' because I find their actions unfathomable -- the pursuit of that knowledge can only be productive.
@@tobybajrovic It isn't problematic and I didn't say that it was.
@@crose7412 Unless I misunderstood, you questioned that Jackie Radley was problematic for wanting to read books from problematic and non problematic authors
Same.
Your video came up on my home page and as an author myself, I had to click. I loved your content, you present your case so well and I agree with everything you said. As someone who is trying to get a new TH-cam channel off the ground, I admire your editing skills too! This stuff is harder than people think. Thank you for reviewing books. Book reviewers are fab. I'm always grateful to anyone who reviews my work.
I just in general 🤷🏾♀️ I think humans are flawed, and we should exspose their misdeeds so that we don’t create rambunctious gods out of mere trash mortals . Now in my perfect world they simply wrote a good book.just because ppl read it wouldn’t mean the author gets a pass to let their hateful flag fly.And I hope they would feel humbled.
Yeah it's tricky and I totally agree! Having an audience is powerful, and it sucks that that's the way it is 🤷🏾♀️
Outside of reviews, my thoughts go here: Should I buy it, or should I loan it from the library?
There is a strong commitment by the library community (of which is a great deal more absolute in university and college libraries) to adhere to freedom of speech above all. If a book is problematic, it will go there. Sometimes it will only be available by request, but it will go there. For any problematic book in which I do not want to support, it becomes a loan with the problem in mind. If the book is unproblematic and I like it, I will probably buy it (in audiobook form, usually).
Seji this was such a brilliant discussion video! I think the cancel culture is increasing unfortunately, and I completely agree with your comments around that aspect too! You’ve given me lots to think about, thankyou!
Thank you Jaclyn, glad you enjoyed it!! And yeah it is increasing unfortunately, I hope it doesn't keep going on like this!
I think it's virtually impossible to separate artist from art because your values, opinions and thoughts will undeniably end up in your work (whether you intend it to be like that or not)
Your opinions on this topic are well-considered and thoughtful. Thank you making this video. I prefer to read as broadly as possible and put problematic works in context. The only exception for me is that I will not read plagiarized works. So I guess I tend to judge the work rather than the author.
TH-cam finally got recommendations right, I've been looking for new booktubers and you're definitely the best yet! I love your style and poise, and you explain your thoughts in a clear and concise manner. Also the fact you're a horror fan made me instantly subscribe (along with your fashion sense and hair styling
I love your humour sprinkled in!
Glad you liked it!! Thank you for watching!! :D
If I'm going to read something by someone problematic I try to get the book secondhand or from a library so that they don't get my money.
I completely agree with it needing to be a case by case basis. There is so much nuance for example with authors who are willing to learn regarding their mistakes and also with classics where we don't know how the author would have responded to the present day society. It's difficult. I loved hearing you talk about it
Such a smart and well thought out way to look at problematic author. I agree with you, you have to look at historical context too. Cancelling books and movies that were written in a time where behaviors that these days are problematic, were 'normal' doesn't make sense.
This conversation is so important and your point of view is spot on! I love your brilliant mind!! ❤️ And I greatly appreciate your fearless approach to a multitude of controversial topics with grace and poise! You’re an amazing human being for so many reasons!
This is such a tough topic and one that not many people wish to discuss. We don't have the answers to everything but I do think your solution is great. Trust your gut and evaluate on a case by case basis.
Yeah it is super tricky, isn't it? I think that the more we discuss it, the better it will be :)
I have recently heard arguments that you can see JK Rowling's prejudice in her writing (antisemitic undertones with the Gringots Goblins, transphobic undertones with Rita Skeeter, lack of diversity in Hogwarts, etc). I honestly don't know how to feel because I still love elements of HP, and if I were to write it off I would lose a lot of childhood nostalgia and comfort. I think I would take less issue with supporting the texts if the proceeds were not going towards problematic authors (like you said in your video!) but I am honestly more concerned about promoting materials with these undertones because that is the kind of thing that could create subconscious prejudice, especially in the minds of children. I would love to hear any nuanced opinions!
@afootineachworld I am still forming my opinion with this, but at first glance it seems pretty damning.
The argument is basically that the descriptions of Rita Skeeter are stereotypes of transgender women (i.e. mannish features hidden by overtly fake hair, nails, teeth, gaudy attire, etc.). Further, in the books Skeeter is predatory and spies on the school children, which mirrors the *predator’s in the women’s restroom* argument that transphobic people make.
This isn’t where I saw it, but this tweet has the main quotes in question. twitter.com/ponettplus/status/1270133803328159748
I never understood the goblin one? Like it's not like JKR invented those. They existed long before harry potter and before the nazi's misused them for their propaganda.
" That's a no bueno for me" haha I love it! I like your points, I will definitely be keeping these in mind for future reviews
In a way, it's like having a conversation: "Though I don't agree with some of your philosophy, I would yet learn from you."
As for Lewis Carroll - real name Charles Dodgson...well. I recommend you get a copy of the Norton Critical Edition of Alice in Wonderland, because it contains a wealth of commentary and essays about him from contemporary and modern day historians, writers and critics. The allegations of pedophilia are gone into in considerable detail, as well as the position of children, and adult attitudes toward children in Victorian England. I have the third edition, printed in 2013. The commentaries might help you decide how you feel about him as a person. Also, heis parallel careers as a theoretical mathematician and a renowned photographer (yes - often of young children...) are covered in depth. Oh - and his religious attitudes as well...
Great discourse, Seji. I spoke lightly on this subject on Instagram but I think, personally, I am able to separate an artist and their work. To a degree. I think it says a lot about our society when, while randomly perusing bookshelves, one can haplessly select a book written by someone they later discover is problematic, unbeknownst to the everyday shopper. I remember buying two LGBTQ novels that were lauded as classics in the genre, only to later read reviews that those authors used deeply racist rhetoric and perpetuated negative stereotypes about non-whites. I think that - among many other dealbreakers, of course - is where I draw the line. Dead or alive, past or present, I would never consciously read nor validate any author with such a reputation. I think what bothers me most is when I see (majority white) readers today get so defensive about the "old white classics" of an era of literature that treated racism as commonplace, as if we're not suffering the consequences of those narratives today. It's one of the most insidious aspects of the bookstagram community that no one wants to talk about.
Thanks so much for your response Paris, I always appreciate your take on things!! It definitely says a lot about society. I feel that at times I'm also part of the problem, but I'm glad that I can recognise it and do better next time. I also totally agree with what you said concerning classics. I don't read many of them, but from what I've seen in these booktube/bookstagram streets is that there are certain books that get a lot of 'protection' which I don't think they deserve all that much.
Many thanks for posting about this subject, especially using Lovecraft and Carroll as examples 🙏
I will read anything of interest to me and make my own judgement- I do not believe in censorship. However, the age of the reader does matter, and I would not recommend something that is not age appropriate. Also, I would not comment about an author’s work if I myself have not read them. You have covered some very important points here that people need to take into consideration. Thank you for your well informed thoughts.
I know this is an 'older video; but so many good points to consider for problematic authors. Thanks for posting this ✨
God, I love your voice! Could listen to it for hours.
On to the topic of the video: I love old books and a lot of those, sadly, are written by racist/sexist/etc. old men. Some of the books even have some of that in them. I try to rationalise it by remembering that these people lived more than 100 years ago and their books reflect their time. It doesn't mean they were right - they were not. But it's my job now, as a reader to reflect on what I read.
I also believe that with old books, we should censor/edit out parts that can be hurtful to a group. F.e. I recently read a book from the 1880s where a character went on a misogynist monologue, and it was clearly the author speaking. I think that stuff should be edited out because everyone should be able to enjoy books, even old ones.
(Just to be clear, this only goes for cases where it wouldn't take away from the story.)
That's an interesting point. By the way I would mark such an edition of a book as "edited", "adapted" or "shortened" because I believe that a reader should know if the edition he or she reads has any change regarding to the original text.
@@user-nb7gp4fk7j Oh, absolutely.
@@vue945 by the way could you remember the name of the book?
You made some really good points. I would add two things: first of all, I do think there is a difference between if someone said something and if they did something, someone saying something chauvinistic or racist (or at least that is perceived as such, with Twitter today people say things that are misconstrued all the time) it is way less bad than someone doing something bad (beating their wife, harassing someone because of their race, etc).
Second, I think it's a real shame that I have to miss out on an amazing reading experience because the author is shitty, maybe take the book out from the library (especially if it's something that they'll probably have a copy of and won't need to specifically request it, like Ender's Game) so that we can still experience the good they created without letting them benefit.
I think this is a tricky issue. If someone said something bigoted but their books taught people to be good to each other, have the people joy, doesn't the good outweigh the bad at some point? It's definitely not a black and white issue.
I feel and agree on your second point especially since you bring up Ender's Game. I only recently learned how problematic Card is and of course it's when I'm a little over halfway through Ender's Game and have the first Alvin Maker book in my to-read stack. At least neither were bought new, Ender's Game even being free since it's my friend's old copy that he's read something like five times now and wanted to pass on. But I've been debating what to do next since I really am enjoying Ender's Game and the only thing I've come to is to try and enjoy the stories without giving him my monetary support by finding used copies of the rest of the series or checking them out at the library. I know there's still the issue of his influence, but at least he can't use my money for his bigotry.
But taking books from the library does benefit them? Writers still receive money when books are taken from libraries, and they also continue to receive publishing deals because they’re popular authors who are frequently ‘borrowed’. Additionally, this means they receive publishing deals over people whose voices may be more beneficial for us to hear?
Great video! I love reading classic novels and many are problematic.
Thank you for watching! And yeah, so many are!!
Lovecraft, personally I feel that he was so racist its hard to fully take seriously, like it feels like he's a south park character.
Oh my god, I love your editing!! I always think this is an interesting topic, especially considering some authors today. I think I agree with on taking it on a case by case basis as well as if the author would profit from you talking about their work. I don't like the idea of never reading problematic authors because if you know why they are problematic and it shows up in their work, it can be talked about and people made aware.
Very interesting topic! I, for example, couldn't finish reading Peter Pan because immediately beforehand I had read a biography about J. M. Barrie where it was mentioned that he had adopted 3 boys and they all committed suicide, possibly because he sexually harassed and / or assaulted them. So that made Peter Pan such an impossibility for me. Even the thought of Barrie being so fascinated with childhood and adolescence that he wrote a whole book about a boy who doesn't grow up really messed with my head. Even though there were just allegations and he was never in court or convicted of any crime, I could not separate accusation from the art. It was a horrible experience for me.
Great video! ❤️
I recently learned Roald Dahl's anti-semite comments and will not read his books anymore. That kids should be more aware. There was a mention of Rudyards Kipling's imperialist views in the Jungle book preface. He's not my favourite author but I read on with a historical point of view. I also heard of Lewis Carroll behavior accusations. One biographir made the case that Victorian was a more spiritual society and the innocence...children seen as cherubs..Parents were asked permission. 🤔
I do the same as you: case by case and by my gut feelings
Thank you!!
This idea of historical context is an interesting one. Is it fair to judge people in history against our current values and belief systems? If so, where is the cutoff date, how much time has to go by, how far in the past does the person have to have lived before we should accept it? It's an interesting question. you are talking about antisemitism, what about Shakespeare?" The Merchant of Venice". The Jewish money lender named "Shylock" who demanded a pound of flesh, that is certainly a very antisemitic stereotype, should we not read or see any of his plays because of that, or should we look at him and his beliefs in the context of the time in which he lived when everybody hated Jews. Wagner was a terrible antisemite, Hitler's favorite composer, should we never listen to his music? I remember there was a big debate around whether the Israel Symphony should perform his music. My personal opinion is, I will not contribute to someone financially, but that's it,if someone was a murderer,a rapist,a racist, and they are long dead or alive, but I will not be giving them money, and they created a great piece of art, like a movie, music book ect, I'm all in. There are no problematic authors, there are only problematic people that happen to be authors.
I agree that it's a complex issue but I think you discussed it in a very nuanced way! I just wanted to add, though, that liking children definitely wasn't seen as accepted or normal during the time Lewis Carroll lived (though, from what I've read, it's not confirmed that he liked children or/and had any inappropriate relationships with them)
I agree with dead vs alive thing as well! I think that whether or not the rhetoric they have affects their work or not is what is really decisive for me.
Yes exactly! Sometimes both them and their books are toxic and then it's a definite no-go for me
Well done! Enjoyed the thoughtful way you approached this subject. Lovecraft continues to be lauded for his writing, but his virulent racism removes some of the esteem. I haven’t been able to read his books. I don’t think I will either.
Thank you for watching! And you're definitely right on that, I found that some of his work as well is filled with it and in a really perpetuating way, so I've declined reading it as well.
In the end, choosing to read books by a problematic author is a personal choice and I thinks it's important to respect others people decisions. I've heard people insult other people that choose to still read those books, saying things like" you're the same as the author" or "it means that you agree with that kinda of thought". I really dislike that kind of attitude honestly. There is so much nuance in this subject even by what is considered problematic in the first place. Also I totally agree with the fact that historical context is sooo important and I feel like not enough people take that into consideration.
100% with what you're saying especially the dead or alive part it's much more difficult to support someone when they are alive and pushing that ideology. Also there is a bunch of racism in the western canon even thrown in causally but as modern readers we have the ability to recognize it and the time period it's from. Also last thing on your last point Heidegger was part of the Nazi party but his work Time and Being has nothing to do with Nazi ideology so I agree that in cases where it doesn't influence the work in a profound way it's not necessary to bring up.
I’m in love with your editing 😂 I also think you bring up some really great points -mainly the idea of going with your gut in deciding. I like that.
Have you checked out the tv show 'Lovecraft Country'? Its on HBO I think and centers a young Black American man in 1950's Chicago and mixes the context of the horrific racism of that era with Lovecraftian inspired monsters. Really interesting, some episodes give me vibes similar to the film 'Get Out'
One of the best videos I've seen on this topic. Love how you broke down the criteria of consideration for books.
This was a great video and a really in-depth discussion. Thank you for making this! I always love listening to your discussions on difficult topics -- you navigate everything so well and leave everyone with tons to think about!
Thank you so much Savy!! Really happy to hear that! :D xx
for me it completely depends on WHAT the author did and WHEN they did it (if they are still alive). Would I read a book by someone who had racist thoughts and prejudices like 90 years ago? Yes. Would I read a book by someone who killed/physically harmed someone because of their race, no matter how long ago? No, I’d feel very uncomfortable reading the words of such an evil human being. Also for me reading a book is way more enjoyable when you can relate to the author in some way or at least like something about them.
I’m new to your channel and currently binging your videos! I’ve just got to say: I agree with EVERY SINGLE THING you said in this video. Your explanation is so balanced, reasonable, and salient. Currently watching your “The Big Problem with Booktube” video now and kicking myself that I haven’t found out about you sooner. Thank you for being you!! Can’t wait to see more of your videos! 🥰🙏🌈😻✨
I really don't comment on TH-cam often, and we are both human, so I know there are things that we would disagree with, but I just have to say this: wow! You are really well spoken, polite, funny and make great cases for this topic. I absolutely agreed with you on this and I can tell that you have a critical and skeptical mind. I wish there were more people like you on the internet. It was a pleasure to watch this!
It depends on if the work isn't blatant about the author's beliefs and on whether or not said author is alive. At least to me.
I loathe the term “cancel culture” because I feel like more often than not people just use the term as an excuse to belittle those who are holding others accountable, and not to mention nobody really ever gets “cancelled” anyway, there will always be people who will support other people regardless of what they do or say. I think there’s this really tricky spectrum where blindly supporting people and being overly critical are at each end, and it’s quite hard to find a balance in the middle. I used to be very hyper-vigilante and quick to cut off support of or attention to certain people and works but in doing so, I wasn’t requiring myself to stop and think critically, much like immediately dismissing problematic behavior as simply “cancel culture” also doesn’t require you to think critically because of the immediate judgment. I still don’t personally think you can entirely separate art from an artist, because they are incorporating their own personal thoughts, beliefs, and morals into their creations one way or another, but I do think it is crucial to critically enjoy things (where appropriate of course, as some topics are truly just not up for debate like racism, pedophilia, etc if they’re just being glorified, normalized, and praised) and recognize when things are problematic so you can have productive conversations. Never enjoying things because there are problematic elements or dismissing problematic elements because you want to enjoy things are both unproductive approaches that are unfortunately very easy to succumb to since they don’t require thoughtful conversation.
I also dislike that it discourages the possibility for humans to change. Like certain things are definitely unforgivable and people should be held accountable even the ones which aren't. But how are people going to learn to change their minds if they aren't given the opportunity to do so? That was quite inarticulate, but I'm running on like no sleep. I hope whoever reads this rambling gets what I mean.
I love the way you talked about this. I agree with dead/alive author situation.
It is extremely important to stop supporting everything that does not help anymore in any area of life. Books included. Beautifully expressed.
"yup. i said what i said." haahaha! discovered you just now, subscribed!
This just came up as recommended for me. I think it's a great topic for today. I totally agree with everything you said here. You are so eloquent and wise. :)
I think I see eye to eye with you on every point you made. I think for someone who is passionate about literature it’s important to note that humans are flawed and historical contexts will shape our reality in different ways. I personally think it’s vital to explore different authors of different morals so that we can better understand our own stance and strengthen our understanding of what is “wrong” and “right”
This video was made 8 months ago but it's suddenly become relevant again. Thanks for the nuanced discussion.
Hold ON you’ve shocked me with the Lewis Carol allegations
I know right?! Super crazy!
I totally agree with you. I just finished reading A House for Mr. Biswas by VS Naipaul who was known for his racist commentary as well. I really liked the book though. The man is a no go.
Wow just looked the guy up, a total yikes indeed!
Damn, I knew about the misogyny but not the racism. Dude seems like a real piece of work
I've been absent from YT and the socials for so long, and Gurl, your channel has grown :D Congratz on that!
I remember a post on Instagram you made, concerning Neil deGrasse Tyson and wether to still support his work, now that he was being accused. And yes, it is such a difficult question.
I love your apporach though, decinding on a case to case basis, allowing some room.
Cancel culture is the worst, though. Nowadays people get cancelled for a misstep during one tweet and no matter how many times they apologize or try to do better, once the internet mob has made a judgment... there is hardly a comeback. Even if those people apologize and try to do better.
Cancel culture never helps, neither the accused nor those trying to make a case.
Thank you very much!! Yeah I've been gone for some time as well hahah, glad we're both back!! :D Yes exactly that's where it started, it's such a tricky situation indeed.
And yeah cancel culture is so exhausting, I think it also plays into this mindset of not viewing things critically and just jumping on the bandwagon - not to say that there aren't any people who do absolutely deserve cancellation. But yeah that's really one of the downsides of social media unfortunately!
Have been thinking about making a similar video myself, but have felt a bit overwhelmed by what I feel might easily become a much more complex topic than what I have capacity for atm.. Nice to see someone make it short and simple.
Personally I think historical context is key... if there is a cultural awareness of the prejudice and violence behind a work it allows people to engage critically, and protect themselves against potential subliminal messaging in what they read.
I really enjoyed this video. You are always very concise and it's clear you put a lot of thought into it. I agree the accused vs guilty aspect is especially hard. Thanks for this video!
This is such an interesting discussion. I think a positive about our general access to information these days, and even social media, allows us to be more aware of people and companies that we do or do not wish to support. Still, it’s a very nuanced thing and when it comes to authors, I agree it’s a bit of a case by case thing.
Jameela Jamil, an actress, has touched on this in an interview before (I can’t remember which) about cancel culture. In short, she doesn’t think it does any good because 1) people who tend to get canceled are often doing just fine in the end, and 2) “canceling” someone doesn’t allow or encourage growth from the person who has done something wrong.
Yeah that is so incredibly true, the moment you sensor a person is the moment they get a huge amount of support because a lot of people value freedom of speech more than that they actually care to look at the person and see what kind of harmful things they're doing. It just doesn't work.
@@TheArtisanGeek That's a great point. Not enough people take the time to understand all sides of an issue. They just kind of see one small section of one side, if ever both sides. It's something I'm honestly working on, which is to get the whole story for things before jumping to conclusions or forming a full opinion on something.
I tend to not look up authors. And it’s not because I don’t think it matters. It’s just that I’m a teacher in school so I’m just picking up books in my free time just to calm myself. I could have more discernment but I just don’t look it up. I do care, but I have more discernment in other areas. BUT if I hear about the author before I ever pick up the book, I won’t read it. And if I find out after I read it, I won’t suggest it to someone else OR I will tell the next person about it. But I’m not a reader. I have no platform. So if I had a platform I’d definitely think further into it.
I really enjoyed your video. I think your criteria is fair and clear.
Poor Lovecraft. You are absolutely correct. I wish his bad reputation didn't hurt his existing work as much as it does. He suffered so much with a mental and financial breakdown in his life. He lived in an era where help was not available. He never received any acclaim or money for his work.
This is a topic I have been thinking about a lot lately - but you said it better than I could have. I think it has to be a gut feeling. Also just wanted to say - love your channel and have subbed!
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Gut feeling is definitely important! And thank you so much for subbing! :D
I read that Lewis Carroll wanted to marry Alice but only when she came of age which seems strange now but wasn't as strange in the nineteenth century and the reason Alice's family got upset with him is that they wanted him to marry their eldest daughter who was still only around 14 but he didn't want to
Very nice, layered video. Congratulations, we need more like this one.
Your take is very much like my own. I have struggled with one living author, however. I guess the closer to your heart the art is, the more difficult it can be to reconcile.
I'm in my 50's, and in the last 10 years I discovered that the author of a book that I have adored and has even helped form some of who I have become was written by somebody who has issues with homosexuality. I suppose I should have expected it, once I learned he was a devout Mormon. But then he actually said something in an interview, and it was no longer just speculation.
I'm constantly questioning myself on where I stand now. Not on homosexuality of course, but on this issue of *art vs the artist.* I'm not entirely sure how I should handle this. I'm certainly not going to support him going forward. But when it comes to this particular work that I have read more times than any other, I struggle.
Those brought up in religious groups like this may be closed minded, but they think they're doing right. And shouldn't it be okay for him to _believe_ this if he doesn't make a conscious and deliberate effort to push this belief? Granted, I have not read all of his work. But it doesn't have anything to do with the specific book I have loved in any way. It's never addressed in the story at all. Not even in subtext.
And I still don't know enough about his belief as a whole. From what I know, I don't believe he dislikes anyone that happens to be a homosexual. I think he just believes that it's a sin. I _think_ he's one of those _hate the sin not the sinner_ types. Which might be a more respectable form of ignorance. 🤷🏼♂️
Perhaps I'm just being an apologist. Anyhow, it's been a struggle. Particularly when I look around me and I don't see how my liking this particular book impacts anyone else either. I purchased the book decades ago. I have read it many times. It is brought me great value. And the things I have learned from it have brought value to those I have come across in life.
All that said, my particular scenario (and those in a similar situation¹) which I am discussing seems to be a very quiet and personal situation. I acknowledge the authors messed up beliefs. They are not in the book. Nobody knows when or if I'm reading this anyway. So then I'm constantly asking myself, _does any of what the author thinks of homosexuality matter at all?_ Or again, am I just being an apologist? I'm not gay. But perhaps I should be more sensitive to those in my position that are.
I've always felt there was great importance in the understanding that when one stands up to such things *alone,* where no one can see, _that's when it matters most._ That's possibly how you know _who you really are_ and _what you really believe._
I have found HP Lovecraft to be a little easier to read,² despite the racist elements within the books. Partially because I've never read his letters. I know they've been published at one time. But more because I see it as beliefs infused into a character within a story. And many so-called scientists of the day had really messed-up belief systems. And what better character to expose to the incomprehensible elements of the universe and have go crazy? 😏
Anyway, I appreciate you making a video on this. Some people may not even realize that this can be problematic.
•••●●●•••
*¹* Living alone. Not a public figure. No pulpit whatsoever. Quietly reading, then moving on to the next book.
*²* Edit: also because I started reading him when I was a teenager in the 80s. So there's a lot of baggage there regarding nostalgia, and the blossoming of my appreciation for such work.
This is something I've been thinking about and discussing a lot lately, and I definitely agree that this is a really nuanced topic that really depends on a lot of factors. For me personally, I am mostly able to separate the art from the artist, unless the artist's misdeeds are apparent within the art. For example, I still read lots of literature by problematic people, but I am not going to be watching any movies by Woody Allen anymore because his problematic behavior is also apparent in his films - and also, I personally just wouldn't want to see the person. With a book, at least I don't have to look at the person who wrote it.
I just feel that if we were to boycott all art created by problematic people, we'd barely have anything left. This isn't to say that all crimes are equal, because most certainly some things are way, way worse than others (pedophilia, sexual abuse, murder, etc). However, I just think that regardless of whoever the artist was/is, as soon as their art is created it becomes its own entity that should be judged for itself and its artistic merit and impact on the world. For example, Pablo Picasso was an extremely problematic person who abused the women who were his muses, yet it can't be denied that his work had a massive influence on art history.
I also definitely agree about the dead/alive thing. If the person is still alive, I'm definitely not going to support them in any way by buying their work or funding anything.
Overall, I don't think it's problematic to enjoy art from problematic artists, though I do understand the inhibition that people have about it.
I am also a big fan of HP Lovecraft and am very much aware of how his racism sneaked its way into a lot of his writing - for some reason, though, the feelings of terror from those stories is what is important.
Its funny how problematic authors are usually the best. I go with the adige that the author is dead after the book is published, despite the author's human failings the story/song/artwork/whatever will live on long past the time the reputation of the author has any relevance to the art in question.
As a wise man once said...
“No one remembers the singer. The song remains.”
― Terry Pratchett, The Last Hero
Yes I was thinking about this recently and come to think of it, it might be that since they are so talented and successful, people listen more carefully to what they have to say/ they face more scrutiny than say an author whose work isn't that popular. But who knows, really.
@@TheArtisanGeek I suppose so🤔
Nobody starts out popular so the main appeal/thrust of success is the story and not the author.
totally agree with you! I really believe in separating the art from the artist; just because someone didn't share my views doesn't mean their work is worthless, especially taking historical context into account. I'm still willing to read books by living authors that are problematic, but while they are alive I won't buy their books or give them any financial support. I'll just get their books from the library instead of contributing to their wealth.
Another great and thoughtful video! On your accused/guilty point I would possibly veto that for authors who have written memoirs about their criminal past because 1) they're often reformed which has motivated their writing and 2) they can be an insight into the 'criminal' section of society which is quite often misunderstood and misrepresented. On this note would recommend Monster by Sanyika Shakur and Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts (good on audiobook).
I think the algorithm put this on my path. Good points. My opinion is whether someone is okay with TERFs, SWERFS, transphobes, homophobes, racists, etc is subjective. However, nobody should EVER read plagiarizers. That is an unforgivable crime in the reading/writing world.
Such an interesting video, so refreshing hearing this kind of debate from a booktuber. I completely agree with the cancel culture in a way that these days only for saying your opinion twitter can get on fire, literally, like maybe that person make a mistake or is just stating his/her opinion, you can disagree but these days seems that some debates are just out of discussion (and I am not talking about J.K, I personally didn't like some of her opinions and ideology years ago, like when the books came out but that doesn't make me wanting to remove all of her books and not read her again. I disagree about what she said completely by the way).
So in my case if a writer has written a masterpiece or is really well known for his/her books I think I will read them or at least try to approach her/his work.
It is true that I have limits as you said writers that proclaim themselves misogynist or racist and express those views in his/her books is a bye for me, if I feel curiosity maybe I will borrow the book at the library I don't want to give money to those people. Same for books that are related to love for kids, there are those kind of books, it's a totally NO for me. It came out a book not so long ago I know the translation in Spanish but not the English title, I read some parts online and it was disgusting, like the scenes btw this adult man and this girl, there are ways of writing about sexual abuse and that one was just pornographic. I can't stand those kind of books. A big NO
I also respect the context of the books, I've read some books from the 50s where women were represented as silly companions of the men or just as housewives and so on, I understand is the context where it was written. Same for the movies.
After watching 3/5 of this, I immediately subscribed. You are articulate and thoughtful. I also struggle with Lewis Caroll since I adore Alice's stories. You are absolutely right, we should be careful when reading literature with our modern lens and biases. Just like any literature, there are many different ways to view and analyse these works. Thank you for pointing out the 'not feeling as icky when reading someone who's dead' because I feel the same but could never say it so succinctly.
I’ve recently discovered your channel and I love it. Please keep making videos, you’re so insightful and interesting.
As a writer myself, I very much enjoyed your presentation. You did a very good job, and gave some good food for thought.
BTW, I recommend G.K. Chesterton. I think you'll find him quite intriguing.
this was great!!! you were so eloquent and it was clearly so well thought out!!!! love it 💛💛
Thank you very much!! I'm glad you enjoyed it!! xx
your voice is sooooo soothing :)
I just discovered your channel and I loved this discussion! Your voice is very calming.
An excellent, well-reasoned approach!
Thank you very much! :D
I know this isn't the topic, but I just love your humor and editing skills!
I loved your video, I'm French and i can understand you very well so thank you for that.
I like that you talk about that subject because I often ask myself that kind of questions and this is really hard to answer it. This question come with every type of arts.
Very much enjoyed listening to and agree with your perspective on this topic, and I freaking love your outfit!
with the Guilty or Accused thing: I handle that how the justice system does it (at least here in Germany), everyone is innocent until you are convicted.
For my part, I can read books by authors I despise as long as the book doesn't reflect the reasons I despise them, though I do try not to send money their way. For example, Orson Scott Card holds some views I find abhorrent but I still will read books he writes as long as those views aren't reflected in them, but I will borrow them from a library or something. Others, I've stopped reading because their awful views started to show up in their writing, like Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International books, which went from fun adventures to right-wing soapboxing once Correia got butthurt because he felt progressive-minded authors got all the awards. Another variable is the historical context, so that you can read an old book that reflects outdated views and dislike those outdated views while understanding they were the norm then and focusing on the book's merits. That's what works for me, at least.
Just discovered your channel and needless to say, I adore you.
This is a very interesting discussion video, it's nice to hear what your thoughts on some of the different topics from your POV on some important topics. It doesn't take away the fact that people have some sort of flaws, but it's nice to hear what people think about things like, Dead or Alive and Racism.
The camera zoom on “really fricken racist” got me😂
I’m really enjoying your videos! Thanks for all the wisdom and perspective.
5:17 at first i was like "wait, how many authors have murdered people and gone onto have successful writing careers?" and then i remembered anne perry
Are you serious? I had no idea Anne Perry was a murderer. Really?
@@uptown3636 Yep! When she was 15 she and her friend murdered her friend's mother by hitting her over the head with a brick.
There's a movie directed by Peter Jackson loosely based on the case called Heavenly Creatures.
I have weird feelings about this. For instance I have read a couple memoirs by people on death row for murder and the insight into the prison system I think was valuable. But i wouldn't read a living author who killed someone and then just wrote like... A romance or whatever
This was such a good discussion video! Loved it! Thank you! 😍
Thank you Henry!! Glad you liked it so much!!