@@bbailey7818 it’s Wagner’s most under appreciated music in my opinion. When I heard it live, when the chorus entered, it felt like I was in the old magnavox commercial.
Carl Dahlhaus in the Lohengrin chapter in his book 'The Music Dramas of Richard Wagner' is a true insight into this act, one of the best things Wagner ever wrote.
A beautiful opera that needs to be performed with commitment if it’s to work. ‘High concept’ productions in the theatre tend to destroy this one more effectively than they destroy other Wagner operas. This may be the RR but I have a fondness for the Solti recording from 1987, despite Domingo’s unidiomatic turn in the title role and the fact that DFD and Ludwig are a much better pair of antagonists. Solti’s direction is very exciting and theatrical and Jessye Norman is a ‘strong’ (read:overpowering!) rather than a simpering Elsa.
The Toscanini comment about Tristan applies to Lohengrin as well: "If they were Italians they would already have had seven children. But see, they are Germans, still talking it over."
I love "Lohengrin". It is one of the three Wagner operas that are just unbeatably appealing, the other two being "Meistersinger" and "The Flying Dutchman". I take it in as a fairy tale, not some as some attempt to impose twisted reality upon the listeners. That way, I can enjoy it. The music is bewitching from start to finish, which is what counts in those three of Wagner's operas. And Jess Thomas is just the greatest Lohengrin, EVER. I saw him live several times and he an Sandor Konya ruled as THE WAGNER TENORS and still do, in my book. Eat your heart old, Melchior, take a snooze, Jon Vickers.
Despite being partial to the opera myself, I’ve always loved Rossini’s remark “one can’t judge Wagner’s opera Lohengrin after a first hearing, and I certainly don’t intend to hear it a second time.”
Do _not_ let Mildred start her own channel. She adorns and enhances this one so nicely. Oh, and good call on the Lohengrin front, too... I spent many hours at Neuschwanstein in my youth, so Lohengrin has always been a bit of a favourite, though I don't pretend to understand any of it!
It’s so beautiful Love it Great performance Everyone is fabulous Abbado is the runner up with a slightly less magical cast - apart from Lohengrin and a better recording
The German libretto says that Ortrud falls to the ground with a shriek ("mit einem Schrei"). So she gets a better exit line, maybe, than Kundry in PARSIFAL who just sinks (silently) lifeless to the ground. Of course, in both cases that's as long as Wagner's state directions are followed, which isn't always the case!
This recording also features a fantastic rendition of the Morgenröte, along with the Act 1 and 3 preludes they are my favorites of Wagner's orchestral writing.
I do not listen to it often, but some of that music is lovely! I'll check out this recommendation. Everyone enjoys a fun-filled Lohengrin. Mildred always steals the show. Thanks.
The only album covers scarier than the gold lamé knight's dress on Kempe's Lohengrin are Birgit Nillsson's Salome and Elektra recordings!! Horrific but reference recordinga for sure!
The reference and the best. Kubelik next. Say what you will about the work, Wagner gives Lohengrin the greatest, most thrilling, and exciting entrance of any character in opera. Otello's is the only rival.
Lohengrin was my first Wagner opera. I remember hearing it with some detachment, until the entrance of Lohengrin. I was blown away! From that moment on, I followed with the utmost attention.
Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral is FAR better than the Bridal March proper. Perhaps the overexposure of the latter in bowlerized versions makes it seem worse than it is.
I feel like every German provincial theater needs to use your synopsis as an introduction - it cannot get more honest (especially since half of the audience will be as interested in the work as Mildred is...)
I find that if I listen to an excerpts disc I think "this is wnderful, I should hear the whole thing." Then when I do, I'm sorry I did. By the way, Wagner took the basic plot from Weber's Euryanthe, which is often criticized for having a weak libretto. However, it's actually much less silly than Lohengrin.
Terrific recording. I grew up with this (and Solti's) Lohengrin. Have you ever noticed the hurting wrong note at the Brass-section in the first act prayer, when G. Frick sings "zu dieser Frist", because one of the players disobeyed an enharmonic changement? (Approx. at minute 1'45)
Christa Ludwig is a subtle Ortrud, but I prefer Varnay too, scolding her hapless husband (the amazing Hermann Uhde) and then blasting everyone away at the end.
Verdi could afford to take a nap; he’d heard it before: he attended the Italian premiere conducted by his associate Mariani (or a performance shortly thereafter) and notated the score.
"Impressione mediocre. Musicha bella quando è chiara e vi è il pensiero. - L'azione lenta come la parola. Quindi noia. Effetti belli d'istromenti. Abuso di note tenute e riesce pesante. Esecuzione mediocre. Molta verve, ma senza poesia e finezza. Nei punti difficili cattiva sempre." Written by Verdi on the 19th November 1871, after attending a performance of Lohengrin.
@holgadoencinasraul2820 I think it all boils down to what Janacek said so well: Wagner had a genius for expansion, while Verdi had a genius for contraction.
Dave, do you have any recommendations for audio equipment? I'd like to improve my set up, but there's so many recommendations and so much apparent BS that it's hard to know where to start.
Yeah, when listening to, or watching, Wagner, you often need to not only suspend disbelief but almost every other critical capacity your brain has going on. Though to be fair he’s far from the only romantic composer one does that for, just so you can enjoy the music. I saw it at Seattle Opera almost exactly 20 years ago and aside from the really memorable music passages you named, the most memorable things were Jane Eaglan (as Ortrud, not Elsa) had twice the volume of any of the other singers, and Greer Grimsley was good as Telramund. This Kempe recording is the only one I have listened to - his is also the only Meistersinger I’ve heard without visuals.
I could not agree more! Absolutely. The Paris Tannhäuser improved things, but in the Dresden score, really only the Rome Narrative is a step forward from Hollander.
Mildred has taken the measure of "Lohengrin " and appears catatonic (or is it catalepsy?). I do value Mildred's critique, however, in defense of the opera it does offer us two fine preludes that make excellent fillers for a symphonic concert. I wonder, is Wagner offering us a hint of what was to come after "Lohengrin" in the dark prelude to act II? I think I hear intimations of the "Ring". Louie, my 10 year old brown tabby enjoys your talks. Louie is a Baroque maven, Wagner usually has him retiring to my closet and my clothes basket where he can think deep thoughts. A a committed ailurophile, Dave, I know you understand the importance of deep meditation to a cat. Too bad Louie had a certain surgical procedure when he was young. He is unable to connect with Mildred.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Well, Mildred, her sister, and Louis would do nicely in the "old cats retirement home. They could sit around all day and commiserate over what might have been. I'm innocent in Louie's inability to enjoy fatherhood. He came that way.
I like Lohengrin from time to time. Shimmery music (bit of a Wagner gimmick but hey), Act 1 finale is exciting, signs of some interesting future developments in act 2. But, having listened to Wagner since I was about 12, I increasingly think he’s an overrated composer in relative terms. Yes I love the Ring and Meistersinger. Comparisons are invidious etc, but this man made his career partly by trolling the other composers of his time so he’s fair game. Interesting this came up at the same time as the random reviews of Schumann, someone with more all round musical skills than him. It now seems funny to me that people think the counterpoint in the Meistersinger overture is some great achievement - it’s rather clunky, although enjoyable, but it’s nothing compared to the contrapuntal textures Schumann, Mendelssohn, Saint Saens, etc could create. And yet apparently it’s yet another sign of his genius, sigh …
@@DavesClassicalGuide it’s so interesting, isn’t it? Just listening to Reine Gianoli’s rather marvellous Schumann set (now, apparently on Decca, wtf?) Thees so much counterpoint (canons etc) going on in Schumann that you scarcely notice it, it’s just how the music *is*. I don’t know Mendelssohn so well, but for all the romantic effusions it’s critical that that was anchored in this fascination with Bach, in particular. It’s just everywhere in their / his music…
Lohengrin is a great opera. Tannhäuser is Wagner's opera that deserves the greatest criticism. We wait for Elisabeth to die and who cares? It's got some great music but there are no real characters. Good grief it can be boring. You're right. The Kempe Lohengrin is spectacular. I wonder what Mildred would think of Parsifal.
Ortrud dies in the same manner as Elsa and Isolde: she "sinks lifeless to the ground." In other words, for no particular reason other than to end the damn story.
Though Ortrud gets the extra thrill of falling to the ground with a shriek ("mit einem Schrei") in Wagner's libretto. I agree that she's presumably dead after that--that's Wagner's style! :)
The “scene change” music in the second and third acts blows me away every time. I love Lohengrin! 🦢
When I hear the opera at home on a recording, I always encore those. Unlike the preludes, they're never played in concert.
@@bbailey7818 it’s Wagner’s most under appreciated music in my opinion. When I heard it live, when the chorus entered, it felt like I was in the old magnavox commercial.
Carl Dahlhaus in the Lohengrin chapter in his book 'The Music Dramas of Richard Wagner' is a true insight into this act, one of the best things Wagner ever wrote.
@@clementewerner I’ll have to check that book out. Thank you.
The first opera I ever heard and the first full operatic score I purchased, so it has always been one of my favourites.
That's good to know.
A beautiful opera that needs to be performed with commitment if it’s to work. ‘High concept’ productions in the theatre tend to destroy this one more effectively than they destroy other Wagner operas. This may be the RR but I have a fondness for the Solti recording from 1987, despite Domingo’s unidiomatic turn in the title role and the fact that DFD and Ludwig are a much better pair of antagonists. Solti’s direction is very exciting and theatrical and Jessye Norman is a ‘strong’ (read:overpowering!) rather than a simpering Elsa.
The Toscanini comment about Tristan applies to Lohengrin as well: "If they were Italians they would already have had seven children. But see, they are Germans, still talking it over."
😄
Kempe is the reference for sure. The live Bayreuth recording led by Sawallisch is another favorite for me.
I absolutely love Lohengrin😅, probably my fav opera
I love "Lohengrin". It is one of the three Wagner operas that are just unbeatably appealing, the other two being "Meistersinger" and "The Flying Dutchman". I take it in as a fairy tale, not some as some attempt to impose twisted reality upon the listeners. That way, I can enjoy it. The music is bewitching from start to finish, which is what counts in those three of Wagner's operas. And Jess Thomas is just the greatest Lohengrin, EVER. I saw him live several times and he an Sandor Konya ruled as THE WAGNER TENORS and still do, in my book. Eat your heart old, Melchior, take a snooze, Jon Vickers.
Despite being partial to the opera myself, I’ve always loved Rossini’s remark “one can’t judge Wagner’s opera Lohengrin after a first hearing, and I certainly don’t intend to hear it a second time.”
Do _not_ let Mildred start her own channel. She adorns and enhances this one so nicely. Oh, and good call on the Lohengrin front, too... I spent many hours at Neuschwanstein in my youth, so Lohengrin has always been a bit of a favourite, though I don't pretend to understand any of it!
It’s so beautiful
Love it
Great performance
Everyone is fabulous
Abbado is the runner up with a slightly less magical cast - apart from Lohengrin and a better recording
Dave, do you get more clicks when your cats appear?
The German libretto says that Ortrud falls to the ground with a shriek ("mit einem Schrei"). So she gets a better exit line, maybe, than Kundry in PARSIFAL who just sinks (silently) lifeless to the ground. Of course, in both cases that's as long as Wagner's state directions are followed, which isn't always the case!
This recording also features a fantastic rendition of the Morgenröte, along with the Act 1 and 3 preludes they are my favorites of Wagner's orchestral writing.
Act 2, scene 1 is my favorite section where Wagner looks forward musically toward the Ring to come. Ortrud is one of his greatest characters.
I do not listen to it often, but some of that music is lovely! I'll check out this recommendation. Everyone enjoys a fun-filled Lohengrin. Mildred always steals the show. Thanks.
The only album covers scarier than the gold lamé knight's dress on Kempe's Lohengrin are Birgit Nillsson's Salome and Elektra recordings!! Horrific but reference recordinga for sure!
I love the choral and orchestral portions of this opera. I have this and the Boston Symphony recordings w/ the Kempe as the best.
I'm not really a 'cat person' but, based on her appearances with you, Mr Hurwitz, I could happily adopt Mildred!
The reference and the best. Kubelik next.
Say what you will about the work, Wagner gives Lohengrin the greatest, most thrilling, and exciting entrance of any character in opera. Otello's is the only rival.
Lohengrin was my first Wagner opera. I remember hearing it with some detachment, until the entrance of Lohengrin. I was blown away! From that moment on, I followed with the utmost attention.
Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral is FAR better than the Bridal March proper. Perhaps the overexposure of the latter in bowlerized versions makes it seem worse than it is.
I feel like every German provincial theater needs to use your synopsis as an introduction - it cannot get more honest (especially since half of the audience will be as interested in the work as Mildred is...)
I find that if I listen to an excerpts disc I think "this is wnderful, I should hear the whole thing." Then when I do, I'm sorry I did. By the way, Wagner took the basic plot from Weber's Euryanthe, which is often criticized for having a weak libretto. However, it's actually much less silly than Lohengrin.
Terrific recording. I grew up with this (and Solti's) Lohengrin. Have you ever noticed the hurting wrong note at the Brass-section in the first act prayer, when G. Frick sings "zu dieser Frist", because one of the players disobeyed an enharmonic changement? (Approx. at minute 1'45)
It has been eons since I have listened to Lohengrin. Mildred has the right idea. She is beautiful, btw.
Christa Ludwig is a subtle Ortrud, but I prefer Varnay too, scolding her hapless husband (the amazing Hermann Uhde) and then blasting everyone away at the end.
Verdi could afford to take a nap; he’d heard it before: he attended the Italian premiere conducted by his associate Mariani (or a performance shortly thereafter) and notated the score.
"Impressione mediocre. Musicha bella quando è chiara e vi è il pensiero. - L'azione lenta come la parola. Quindi noia. Effetti belli d'istromenti. Abuso di note tenute e riesce pesante. Esecuzione mediocre. Molta verve, ma senza poesia e finezza. Nei punti difficili cattiva sempre."
Written by Verdi on the 19th November 1871, after attending a performance of Lohengrin.
@holgadoencinasraul2820 I think it all boils down to what Janacek said so well: Wagner had a genius for expansion, while Verdi had a genius for contraction.
@@bbailey7818Great observation! And boy, does that show itself astoundingly in Falstaff!
Falstaff, the most unexpected masterwork.
@bbailey7818 Janacek was a wise man
When you said "Waaagner" I almost waited for the Bruckner's horses to neigh
Me too! 😂
I agree, Kempe 1962 is the best.
Dave, do you have any recommendations for audio equipment? I'd like to improve my set up, but there's so many recommendations and so much apparent BS that it's hard to know where to start.
Sorry, no.
Yeah, when listening to, or watching, Wagner, you often need to not only suspend disbelief but almost every other critical capacity your brain has going on. Though to be fair he’s far from the only romantic composer one does that for, just so you can enjoy the music. I saw it at Seattle Opera almost exactly 20 years ago and aside from the really memorable music passages you named, the most memorable things were Jane Eaglan (as Ortrud, not Elsa) had twice the volume of any of the other singers, and Greer Grimsley was good as Telramund. This Kempe recording is the only one I have listened to - his is also the only Meistersinger I’ve heard without visuals.
Wagner's swelling chromatic harmonies and their surging emotions are stupendous.
His melodies are just asinine.
Mildred is a little sweetie!
Lohengrin definitely IS a huge step forward after Tannhauser (which was a ‘step back’ after Hollander, imo).
I could not agree more! Absolutely. The Paris Tannhäuser improved things, but in the Dresden score, really only the Rome Narrative is a step forward from Hollander.
Mildred has taken the measure of "Lohengrin " and appears catatonic (or is it catalepsy?).
I do value Mildred's critique, however, in defense of the opera it does offer us two fine preludes that make excellent fillers for a symphonic concert.
I wonder, is Wagner offering us a hint of what was to come after "Lohengrin" in the dark prelude to act II?
I think I hear intimations of the "Ring".
Louie, my 10 year old brown tabby enjoys your talks. Louie is a Baroque maven, Wagner usually has him retiring to my closet and my clothes basket where he can think deep thoughts.
A a committed ailurophile, Dave, I know you understand the importance of deep meditation to a cat.
Too bad Louie had a certain surgical procedure when he was young. He is unable to connect with Mildred.
I understand. Both Mildred and her sister have forsworn motherhood.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Well, Mildred, her sister, and Louis would do nicely in the "old cats retirement home. They could sit around all day and commiserate over what might have been.
I'm innocent in Louie's inability to enjoy fatherhood. He came that way.
I like Lohengrin from time to time. Shimmery music (bit of a Wagner gimmick but hey), Act 1 finale is exciting, signs of some interesting future developments in act 2. But, having listened to Wagner since I was about 12, I increasingly think he’s an overrated composer in relative terms. Yes I love the Ring and Meistersinger. Comparisons are invidious etc, but this man made his career partly by trolling the other composers of his time so he’s fair game. Interesting this came up at the same time as the random reviews of Schumann, someone with more all round musical skills than him. It now seems funny to me that people think the counterpoint in the Meistersinger overture is some great achievement - it’s rather clunky, although enjoyable, but it’s nothing compared to the contrapuntal textures Schumann, Mendelssohn, Saint Saens, etc could create. And yet apparently it’s yet another sign of his genius, sigh …
I hear you...
@@DavesClassicalGuide it’s so interesting, isn’t it? Just listening to Reine Gianoli’s rather marvellous Schumann set (now, apparently on Decca, wtf?) Thees so much counterpoint (canons etc) going on in Schumann that you scarcely notice it, it’s just how the music *is*. I don’t know Mendelssohn so well, but for all the romantic effusions it’s critical that that was anchored in this fascination with Bach, in particular. It’s just everywhere in their / his music…
One of the best efforts by Wagner.
I give it a four out of ten 🤣
For me, Ludwig always provides an adequate excuse for listening to anything.
Lohengrin is a great opera. Tannhäuser is Wagner's opera that deserves the greatest criticism. We wait for Elisabeth to die and who cares? It's got some great music but there are no real characters. Good grief it can be boring. You're right. The Kempe Lohengrin is spectacular. I wonder what Mildred would think of Parsifal.
Ortrud dies in the same manner as Elsa and Isolde: she "sinks lifeless to the ground." In other words, for no particular reason other than to end the damn story.
Though Ortrud gets the extra thrill of falling to the ground with a shriek ("mit einem Schrei") in Wagner's libretto. I agree that she's presumably dead after that--that's Wagner's style! :)