In the post-race press conference Francesco summed up what it was like to race against New Zealand by saying, 'It is like trying to drown a fish under water.' Very witty. Very true.
Awesome races to watch. Respect to NZ for staying foiling at the last tack of the 2nd race. That, to me, was the clincher. I have won many light air dinghy races myself, while the other skippers simply got frustrated and started making mistakes, or simply “lose the wind”. I had an old Shearwater IV cat and used to lie face up on the leeward bow to watch the vane, while my partner steered. Won quite a few races that way! Good memories.
Aye. I learned about light wind sailing from father in law on a Lion class 36. Put it to good use on a Biscay Bay race from La Rochelle to San Sebastian on a SHE 36. Flat calm they called the last 2 miles. But you get a nice bow shaped main and a big jib to make the chimney and pretty soon a 1/4 knot is taking you somewhere else. Then a half knot just from temperature difference will allow you to go roughly nearer your finish line. Trouble is too many call it off and start their donk donk to get in early for the beers!
your kind with these 3 official commentators ! they are really irritating me (specialy cherley & the leader, ken is his name ?) I do prefer Mozzy analysts, so expert & bring so much value to images I used to sail a lot in shore regatas but I still have so much to learn !!!!
@@philippedumez8417 There is some tension in that commentary box, If Steven just opened (before the starting box) and closed the race and left the race commentary to Nathan and Ken all would be dandy.And the production is average, they seem to move from the critical action at the wrong times and the crowd shots are unforgivable during a race.
Hey Mozzy! I think this is my first TH-cam comment ever. Just to let you know how I appreciate your thorough and unbiased analysis of this event so far. Your daily brilliant insights are among the reasons I’m enjoying this AC so much. Gonna miss this. I’d really love to see another analysis on LR’s generally (not in race 7) very good leeway angle upwind, which lets them overcome their significant handicap in boat speed and even VMG angle (VMG shown on screen is not over ground) and how ETNZ so effectively reacted to that in the last two days of racing drastically improving their efficiency upwind. So much still to uncover! PS seeing your lately growing Italian fan-base and your attention for details I'd like to throw in a little suggestion: The letter “U“ in Luna Rossa should be pronounced as in the world “lOOse”, only with a shorter sound (like “OU” in French). You could be the first anglophone commentator to get it right ;)
What have been last couple days for LR! One mistake each doesn't mean each mistake has same importance. Day 3, LR made a wrong start in 2nd race AFTER ETNZ did a similar mistake in previous race: too low in pre start and forced in a high mode/slow start. Today they falled from foils AFTER ETNZ did it and still didn't sail in a safe way. Sooo sad because on most things the guys are putting an incredible effort and doing so well! I hope we won't regret the choices... Forza LR! 🇮🇹
I was astonished that, having dropped off the foils, ETNZ did not use the Code Zero (which I am told was on board) to pull themselves up onto their foils again. Yet again, a very good analysis from you, please keep up the good work! And I predict one each for tomorrow... cos I learned how to sit on a fence a few years ago (sailing an international canoe..)
There were some odd decisions being made that day, are you sure the code 0 was on board? Both teams could have used more sail area but they shy away because they're scared to death of additional drag, well, look what transpired...
Putting up the code 0 would be like admitting defeat in that position. When you get foiling you can’t stop again to switch back to a smaller code, so they’d have to carry that massive amount of drag for the whole race.
@@rydenkaye9735 If anything was proven this day, extra drag is definitely worth dealing with to avoid what afflicted both teams. They were woefully under-powered for the light patches, and it took them to recover what amounts in a race to forever.
Nice with the out of bounds, exactly what I'd been thinking, they have to hit a point 50m or 100m back on the boundary just to enter again. Look forward to these videos as much as the races!!
Thanks for great comment and yet another jumper. One question: that LR committed that professional foul to get back foiling makes me think about two things: 1) Just after they stop flying they could have continued straight without luffing for the mark (they were re-accelerating to 17kn when they started luffing; 2) they could have committed their professional foul when they reached that boundary the first time around, just after passing the mark when ETNZ was still 1000 meters behind: just before bouncing back to that boundary they had accelerated to 16kn.... So, yes, it was unlucky, but they could have saved it....
@@abatesnz You can hear Jimmy say “if you don’t think we can get flying again, we’ll do that” (that being heading around the mark in displacement). It seems no one on board was confident they would get up again where they were. In the end we’ll never know
Kia Ora from Auckland! Nice work Mozzie. Nothing is certain with the combination of these boats, weather and talent. It could easily be squared at 5:5 with Spithill at the helm. So even as a kiwi I reckon there’s more exciting sailing ahead. However, I reckon that yesterday’s ‘next level’ performance from ETNZ is exactly what a team needs to be able to do, to win the America’s Cup. And Yes, the penalty rules need to be addressed Mozzy!
Te Rehutai’s deeper bellied main in the lower 2m adjustment zone appeared to give them significant drive advantage in lighter airs today. Not sure if the recent clew mods has enabled that but they seem to be able to overhaul LR upwind in a manner not seen in the first two days of racing(?) Feels like we’re moving from “win the start you win the race” to “fastest boat wins”(?). 😬
The extra area certainly didn't hurt, but NZ also demonstrated amazing control on their main. I've never seen that much camber. Either something was modified or I wasn't aware there was that much shape control on these dual-skin mains. Wondering if LR has the same range of shape control.
Lead boat still holds many advantages. Can control the course through maneuver. But if you let a faster boat get close enough to have a go? It can slip past you without you doing anything. If LR had forced a close to boundary duel on ETNZ by sailing up the middle, they might have kept bad air and difficult choices for the trailing boat, but they allowed a gap, a bit confident in their lead upwind, and ETNZ just sailed their own race and got away. In those airs, ETNZ could afford to take extra maneuvers because they could build the speed needed to simply outrun LR. While LR, felt less maneuvers means more speed, and the boats are even. But wind was up, and the equation of the last three days has changed when the two Jibs were not evenly matched As for the second race, I watched ETNZ accelerate from 15 to 18 knots in seconds, pop up and immediately start foiling. And LR crawled from 14 knots to 19 over about a minute then popped up, started foiling and kept building speed, off course, to allow a maneuver. They really did park their boat in the worst part of the course. Might have been better to drop a spinnaker and get down course to find better air to 'mow the lawn' in. Be really quite frustrating, but better than what they ultimately did.
I'm curious about why the cavitation happened that LR experienced. Seems like the crew were totally prepared for a light wind maneuver. Did the flight controller over do the flap angle to make sure they stayed up and produced the disatrous cavitation as an unintended side effect. Unfortunate to discover this combination during the race if it was.
As a Kiwi, that was one of the most tense, drama filled races I have ever seen!! And yet, I don't like it because too much luck was involved. Both teams (at different stages) looked strong, only to be completely undone by virtually no wind. I certainly don't mind tricky wind conditions, and having to pick the shifts - that's sailing - but the point is, there is still 'wind'. You need that to sail...
I agree completely. I didn't like race 8 at all and I'm rooting for NZ. I just want to see true team competition, not competition against the weather...!
Just ETNZ falling from their foils was a mistake of bad judgment (they entered LR gas and turbulence) while LR falling off was complete unexpected bad luck Same bad luck just before the end of the first leg when a wind shift massively advantaged ETNZ and allowed it to come back into the game even though they were on the left side of the court which was supposed to be the weakest As Mozzy said, race 8 was very unlucky for LR and quite lucky for TNZ. LR raced well and did everything they were supposed to.
@@rougesify Blair Tuke indicated (in the PM conference) that they thought they had enough speed to gybe thru the LR wind shadow but there wasn't enough breeze to pull it off - Similar risk for LR in their tack. Bad luck for sure, but not 'completely unexpected'. A bit more breeze and neither boat would have fallen off their foils. Picking that shift in the first race is what match racing is all about. I thought TNZ did a great job on the rounding and caught LR napping a bit.
@@rougesify actually, after listening to the crew comms on Luna Rosa it would seem that they fell off the foil due to several crew errors, not bad luck. Still, I think the second race yesterday was a waste of time in conditions like that. I don't agree with shortening the race either, it should be based on time limit only.
Personally, 27.5 into the LR fateful tack in R8 was not the issue. For, I hope, obvious reasons, I won't comment on what may have caused the touchdown. But I would appreciate your discussion of what LR did with a botched tack at layline with a huge lead. I think there was no tactical reason to go in displacement mode further into light air, just for a mark rounding. Having dropped under 20 knots, why not reach for all its worth to have another go at it?
When this is over, Doug, I hope you will shed some light on why the boat encountered a massive cavitation on that tack when going well above the threshold for a successful tack. When I watched LR continuing in displacement mode to round the weather mark, I thought it a good idea -- until I saw the angles needed to get foiling again. You're so spot on that taking that time to get around the mark in displacement mode cost LR time that could have been used to get foiling again. Thank you for that top notch interview, too!
Considering how efficiently these boats extract energy from the wind (leaving so much less for a boat following in dirty air), and how much faster than the true wind they are travelling (with the resulting huge delta between true and apparent), and the heights of their rigs, perhaps you could discuss what AC75 wind shadows look like (distance, direction, for upwind and downwind). Sometimes I'm puzzled when I see a boat surviving dirty air when I think it shouldn't, or getting killed when I think it should be in the clear.
I think that video may have been based on the normal rules of thumb based on rig height etc for the effects in front, to windward, to leeward and behind. But I have to say that I am lost on what theses machines do to the wind, I would guess it is more about bending and slowing rather than disturbing the air than usual and that the impact is vastly longer lasting and extended further downwind... I have never seen anything like the upwind performance / energy absorption of an AC75.
I agree. But, short of wind tunnel testing (or input from someone who’s seen the results of it on these rigs) difficult to see how we can have anything but guesswork. Even aircraft wing wakes and vortices not that relevant (or maybe a low speed Cessna wing is?)
These Mozzy Sails guys are pretty good at reverse engineering conclusions from observations. I think maybe looking at sailboats' tracks for speed and heading information at assorted boat against boat positions might give some clues.
Ditto. The wind shadows must be a lot more complex; turbulence, low pressure, location, distance, boat speed relative to wind speed. The sail area is huge and, these boats are so sensitive, or as you put it, efficient in extracting energy.
I think in the moments before ENTZ put in the gybe and came off the foil, LR had a problem with their jib, they couldn't trim it, maybe a riding turn. I thought ENTZ were going to roll over the top but as it was the gybed. Agreed re your closing analysis, LR could readily win the next two races. Massive credit to ENTZ in managing to compete in these low winds. Cheers again for the vid MS.
Mozzy Sails, Mate, you saw so much, I was there, and all i saw was our boat (The Kiwis) Floundering in the water, My heart was in my mouth, my mouth was dry, tears in my eyes, Willing Luna Rosa, to either sink, snap a sail, or lose a man overboard. I almost had another Giant orgasm when the Italians game to a dead stop later & we sailed to a win, Mate, nail-biting stuff for us onlookers. But wow, you saw so much with the sails & tacks, plus wind direction. I think the penalty should be a "Penalty turn" a complete circle
I do wonder about these penalties - What's the point of a boundary if there's no repercussions in over reaching it? At one stage LR was deemed to have a 'double penalty' for sailing what looked like a ridiculous amount of metres out of bounds and within a few seconds was told 'penalty cleared' how? For comparison, the same debate has been happening in F1over the years - their solution is no nonsense, if you gain an advantage you and overtake then you let the car behind pass you on track, if you fail to do that then you either receive a time penalty that will be added to your finishing time or drive through the pits penalty will be sanctioned. Now what would have happened if LR got foiling under a double oob penalty and came back and won the race? What happens if you get get a triple/quadruple penalty and come back foiling in the best position and overtake your rival who has been respecting the boundaries the entire race?
AFAIK, the border penalty is cleared by giving away 30m to the adversary. At the rate LR was plodding along, compared to ETNZ’s flying, the 90m required to clear the 3 penalties LR received were gone in a matter of seconds. Once LR were back within the boundaries the penalty evaporated as fast... as their lead
Sitting and watching. Luna earned like 7 penalties from their maneuver. So they had to give 350 meters total. And ETNZ got over a kilometer ahead. So the penalties were removed, but LR was also instructed to continue their penalty despite foiling in the middle of the course. Which just forced them to build power and speed in the light airs. Probably need to insist on two 'mowing the lawn' jibes, a pair of 180 turns as a penalty, sucking down speed instead of just distance, all without forcing any particular distance penalty.
boundary lines should be given the same respect as an imaginary impenetrable wall or cluster line of mines that the moment you professionally foul sail over [or mistakenly] the consequences are pretty severe. Maybe instant yellow card and 10 minutes in the bin a bit like rugby. When there's hundreds of millions of dollars on the line for each campaign plus what it's worth for the Defender economy... spitall and co were desperate to do something despite crossing boundaries. Great intense off-your-seat racing though...
@@brentmags8574 I would judge the boundary to be porous. allowing a penalty for minor offenses. And a brick wall of disqualification if you stray further by failing to take action. Still that was quite a fun race, so certain we were if TNZ failing due to their error, just to watch a reversal
Not to go for course C today will be a big mistake..... I’ve wind surfed on this harbour for 40 years and can tell you there’s a big chance the sou’wester could break through the conversion zone before 5pm (if the clouds stay around during the day) and that breeze funnels out passed north head ... game on!!!
Really interesting analysis of the last two races. The mistakes made by both boats appeared quite obvious and in the end it was clearly Luna Rossa who paid the most for them even considering the kind of mistakes. I agree with the doubts of the race rules. Personally I think they are very ineffective in a general sense, both in terms of "logic" and in terms of the penalties to be served - especially for situations that can occur during the regatta after the pre-start phase -. It is clear to me that the racing rules must be rewritten in a manner appropriate to the characteristics and performance of the AC75s. In essence they are "marine racing vehicles" that displacement boats share the sea (just when they are unable to compete) and the force of the wind but everything else is a completely different philosophy and as such should be managed appropriately, both considering the safety of the competition, and in terms of homogeneity of the rules and the uniformity of the judgment of the referees Greetings...
After the cup is decided could you get a hold of the full race tapes and give us your analysis over the whole of each race? Your work during this series has been outstanding. You could use these full race commentaries as audition tapes to give to the defender and challenger of record to be the official commenter ('s you and your 2 cohorts) for the next cup. Could you give a a drawing of the outhaul arrangement at the mainsail clews, please? What I am envisioning is back to back traveler track with a car and ram (forward puller?) for each clew for independent chord depth control of each skin. Is that how it works? Are the cars attached to the clew patch of each skin some distance forward of the clew ~ 10"?), with cloth stiffening plates aft of the attachment points ? Is the mainsheet attached to the approx. midpoint of the back to back traveler traveler tracks with car forward offering less chord depth (flatter sail) and conversely car aft greater chord depth (fuller sail)? Seems like this arrangement could see application in allowing self tacking overlapping jibs with "constant arc" traveler track forward of the mast ala the Soling. The track could have a "jiggle" forward to get around the mast and allow the track to have an imaginary arc that if truly constant could pass aft of the mast. Seems this would allow jib overlap values that would allow the clew to extend aft of the deck track some distance related to the distance of the back to back clew traveler car(s) attachment point(s) to the clew patch forward of the clew. This could work even with a single skinned jib with the clew patch split in two to encase the car for protection from the mast when tacking and gybing. Sorry for the wordiness.
Some questions I’m going to throw out here 1) what role do the grinders have in getting a boat back on the foils? Is it harder to control the main while not foiling? 2) do the hydraulic systems recharge the batteries that control the rudder and foils? 3) is it possible or known that a helicopter caused the puff that sent American Magic flying? 4)if the helicopter pilot is a kiwi, do you think this puts other teams at a disadvantage? ( the angles looking into the boats as well as where the downdraft is placed) 5) what are the rules with the race committee shortening the race? Is it a judgement call or is it technical based on wind speed? It would have been nice to give LR a chance on race day 5 to comeback after they fell off the foils Mossy, great channel, I always look forward to it!
Given that umpire awarded a double penalty 100m does that mean he recognised the "professional foul". Had LRPP done this before ETNZ overhauled them and gone on to win the race then I would assume ETNZ would have subsequently protested the result. If ETNZ had done same during their incident pretty sure LRPP would have protested as well. Unless rules specifically preclude this?.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone gains a race winning advantage from deliberately sailing outside the course area to get on the foils. Presumably when this happens a protest under rule 2 or 69 would be an open and closed case?
2 questions to understand, for everyone has the data to answer: 1 - when the race reduction call has been made? 2 - TNZ would have finish in time limits whiteout race length change?...and obviously, thanks to Mozzy for all the work.
It is a common and sensible practice for any race committee to shorten the course when they expect the wind to die. Here it was called shortly after (and probably inspired by) ETNZ touching down, when LRPP was way ahead. Nothing suspicious here.
@@nauticfilms Ok, it look reasonable...and no question CA end hasn't changed for this, but.....let's joke to make it easy. It take me back to "A Few Good Men". The film. Remember the final scene...."why the two orders!!!" ... or something like... Why the two rules!?! "time limit" and "Race reduction". think about for a second. If you had a time limit rule, you put it there to say "OK, the race result is not to take in account in this conditions."; it's written, it's clelar and it's measurable, but ...if you use race reduction YOU decide when to make the result valid, on your own decision and time limits can go in the trash. no more by a written rule.....so....."Then why the two orders? Colonel?" :)
Looks like it's going to be like Sundays wind here in AK. Let's hope racing canned & back into it on Wednesday when there is expected some real wind & a chance to see what these boats are like @ the top end
The commentators said that was allowed (mid race) to meet time constraints. Seems it could give the leading boat an enormous advantage, except in this case LR were leading at the time(!?)
WRT to the rule about going off-course - they know full well what the limits are, they shouldn't need rules except say if you go out of bounds, you are out. Obviously, I am not a sailor, but seems to me complaining about a rule that is very very easy to comply with is silly. Great stuff as always, man. I love your channel.
Not sure if you have done this yet, but would love to get your input on the starts this cup. Spithill had some great aggressive plays, while Burling made some good strategic plays. Thoughts?
Always learn something, or a lot, from these vids. Thanks Mozzy for all your videos, they are bloody great, informative and full of good natured banter. Between the Cup,the AC75, yourself and others sticking their necks out- in lieu of the lack of decent commercial analysis, keyboard talk and not least the teams talking around every question, with good reason I guess- my interest in yachting has been piqued and I'm on board, literally to the nearest sailing club.
I covered them in here th-cam.com/video/iRpaVNeUphA/w-d-xo.html But 'high mode' is when you head up, closer the the wind, to sail a course higher than your optimum fastest (velocity made good) angle, which will see you cover less distance to get up wind, but at a slower speed. Low mode is the opposite, when you bear away from the wind, to sail a course slightly lower than optimum, covering greater distance, but at a greater speed. Whilst neither mode is 'faster' than the optimum, they can be used in conjunction with shifts and wind speed, and the positioning relative to your opponent to open up a tactical or strategical advantage.
I knew NZ was going to win race one the moment they got their bow into clean air. That was a huge mistake by LR, one I'm sure they're kicking themselves about.
@@stefanzzz6778 Yeah, ETNZ clearly has a faster boat, seemingly in all conditions. I mean, even with a smaller jib and their small foils they did a lot better in the very light winds in Race 8. It hardly even looks like LRPP has much of a tacking advantage anymore, maybe a bit more consistent, but ETNZ tacks better a lot of the time now even in the light.
@@Robinlarsson83 ETNZ stated in their interviews they've been learning a lot. What I gathered from that is they've been not only making some modifications but also sailing their boat differently where they were less than ideal in the first few races. Improvements all around and it shows.
I am Italian, and therefore a fan of Luna Rossa, but I must admit that the Kiwis, despite the mistake, have more sensitivity to not get off the foils. The Italians had a bit of bad luck, with that hole in the wind, but I would have done that tack without risking anything, they had an advantage of 2460 m ... too bad, because they had raced well ... Good Kiwis, who did not they surrendered ... I'm afraid the cup will remain in NZ ... FORZA ITALIA, FORZA LUNA ROSSA ... !!
Enjoy the race! I appreciate the Italian contribution to the cup Sadly we Germans do not, we only support LR with a great engineering guy. I am happy about all teams trying to win the cup and pushing the limits of technology. ETZ is among them, so no problem with them. Some former (American) Teams used other ways to win the cup, not fair at all. LR still has a chance!
Exactly, different part of the course, ETNZ just in enough wind to get going. Pity is that Francesco and Jimmy thought about just going straight to the boundary "horizontally" to get foiling again but then almost in the same breath dismissed it. What a pity, i think either that way or coming back down the course a little to get enough wind foiling would have meant they would still have won.
What works for kite foiling need not pay out with this monsters generating huge wind shadows (disturbed air) A gybe instead of a tack forces you passing the own disturbed air which was the biggest issue today.
It is the same with sailing cats. Sometimes you will gybe 270deg insted of tacking 90deg because at least you know you will keep moving. If you tack you risk being stalled heading directly into the wind.
Great analysis, thanks. One thing, though: the discussion about the boundary penalty is moot. If the rules were different they would have behaved differently. Period. They went as far off the course as necessary to get foiling because they knew what penalties they would have incurred. Different rules, different behaviour. Do the rules make sense? I’m not sure they have been drafted lightly and with no forethought. If you had to go back where you left the race course and re-enter at a lower speed, a tiny infringement like that of Ineos that caused Sir Ben to utter “what do you want us to do?” would have caused infinite disaster. If you go off course intentionally, you are already desperate...
Completely agree. I am just being grumpy, and flagging it for change for the next cup. If we'd had the world series events as planned I am sure some of these weird quirks would have been ironed out. Like I said, in the end it didn't matter, however, it would have felt unfair should Luna Rossa have had gone on to win.
@@MozzySails Yeah, the rules evolve with time in almost every sport. You are an experienced sailor, there is no need to remind you of that. AC being held every 4 years, changes have time to get implemented and understood by all parties involved. Who knows if the AC75s will be used again in the AC? I hope they will, since the class is brand new and it's astoundingly spectacular to watch. I hope the design progress and new, even more revolutionary ideas come out, not unlike the design differences between the fat IACC yachts of the 1992 AC compared to the anorexic ones of the subsequent editions (you are probably too young to remember the 1992 ones...). I also hope that the challenger crowd will include more than 3 boats/nations in the future. Finally, it would be a shame if these magnificent beasts were used only in Prada Cup/America's Cup events. I'd love to see them ripping around sailing courses like the alien spaceships they really are in the 4 years to come before the next AC event. My pop corn is ready...
I am not an expert, but only passionate. I wonder if it's like cursing if I imagine the solution to LR's problem (at the tack when she fell) was a 270 ° jibe turn. Having taken the inertia force, tackle the windward mark Sorry if I said a fool Thanks Mozzy for what you allow me to learn about sailing
I have heard quite a bit about TNZ 'losing' both starts. I have a strong suspicion that TNZ have really got their boat dialed in nicely now and just need to be 'close' at the starts. Engaging and risking a penalty is not worth it. Reading between the lines, TNZ have worked out what they have to do to beat LR, and it isn't necessarily all at the start. They seem to have really improved their upwind speed giving them an opportunity to get in front during the race.
@@golly1810 Thanks. Listening to Peter Lester helps. He has noted that LR has a good upwind 'high mode' whereas TNZ need to be a bit 'bow down' (kinda like multihulls which tend to close reach upwind, rather than beating.) So if the boats are close, LR can dictate and compete. But if TNZ can get separation they can start to sail with better efficiency.
Comments from the post race conference implies that due to these boats complexity in maintaining flight that there is less time for eyes on the opposing boat. This could be a contributing factory in missing key observations during the race, such as wind holes.
Hey Mozzy. A curly one for you. If ETNZ had not finished by 6pm NZ time, would all the blood, sweat and tears have been for nothing. By not finishing could they have called a postponement. ??? Jeez I was on the edge of my seat, blood pressure through the roof 😂. Great race showing off their skills to keep in the race 👍. Well done ETNZ.
I'm not an expert but my understanding is as long as they start by 6pm, the race continues on even after that time. It then becomes a question of finishing within the 45 minute time limit. Furthermore, if they didn't finish within the 45 minute time limit, I believe the race would've been postponed if prior to 6pm and abandoned if after 6pm.
I'm really not sure it's that JK that made them pass LRPP. The distance between the 2 boats decreased way too fast, like a different wind angle would do. I don't think they had the same wind at all just after that rounding. I could be wrong. Is there a way to check?
Just a question, it seems to me that the race is all about the "boat", and not about the crew. What would the outcome be if the boats were swapped after every race ?
Thanks for another better technical analysis. When ETNZ came off foils when gybing being LRPP they seemed to round up very quickly and further than normal, almost like they lost control of the back end. Probably my observation is incorrect, would have noticed a pressure drop that quickly?.
You can hear the press press press calls on board so the round up was controlled. They were worried about not being able to swing for the jybe so went into a low mode and then entered what was a pressured jybe already decelerated(ing) while running into lighter air and each others gas. Thinking a couple of steps ahead it was a difficult spot to be in for TNZ. Could have made for some interesting luffing, boundary action, rolls and maybe splashdowns(?) if they had kept going... Probably the right call in a 49er...
@@JW-sl7zz yeah, my 49er days now long gone 😞, but yes, would have been a hairy ride if they had carried on. Will listen to stern cam in the hours waiting for today's race (and wind!!!).
10:04. In New Zealand we have just seen what actually happened in race 9. Race 10 was abandoned because the wind did not settle on Course C. No spoiler. But see if Mozzy's prediction was right...
ETNZ can do the single foil JK...would there be something to do with their flat foils? Even when they put the cant to 72 degrees, their inner foil still able to provide effective lift [due to their flat foils]. The same might not be true for Luna Rossa as they have v-shaped foils...their inner foil would then be too vertical should they put their cant @72 degrees. Just a thought.
Good analysis yet again Mozzy.Yes you are right if LR had overtaken TNZ there would have been screaming about the penalties. AC is nothing about the sportsmanship just the rules & LR was just doing what they needed to do. Apologies to Tom, his VPP is looking pretty good if LR has the wrong jib :-)
These races are being a lot of fun, very exciting and unpredictable. I say so because I like sailing, I like match race, I like these foiled monsters and I empathized with the crews and their challenges. But I have to admit that for a not-savvy spectator is kind of weird to watch one of the boats heading full speed towards a mark, and the other one barely advancing, heading opposite direction sometimes, even going out of the race course, and all that apparently half sunk.
Why do we need this concept of "bounds" at all? Is it to allow the spectators to be near? Is it to try to ensure more than one tack/gybe on each leg? Is it to make it easier to fit a course into the area available? I don't find any of those compelling. Just extend the windward and leeward lay lines until they intersect and keep the spectator fleet 200m outside that. Going outside that area is its own penalty. Maybe you'll get a procession up one lay line to the other, or maybe the trailing boat will take a *really* big spilt. Or maybe there'll be a tacking duel somewhere up the middle -- going out to the edge gives a big risk of being far overstood if there is a wind shift.
Nice review of the races, thank you! Personally, I think Team NZ is looking pretty hot to trot in that multicoloured boat of their. Vmgs at least +3 knts on the first race, and they caught up pretty quick on the second race too.
Can you comment more on why Luna Rosa spent so much time near the top end of the course off the foils were the wind was too light, rather than displacement sailing down the course to get into the better "foiling" wind? Hind sight suggests this was a critical call.
I think that advantage was greatly overestimated. The larger foil area, in this case 30%, produces more more lift but it also induces more drag, thereby slowing the boat when it needed more speed to lift out of the water.
@@jamesaron1967 Agreed. More than anything else, I believe the teams and equipment are both adequate to the task, with the results coming down to a single mistake in seamanship in most cases. LR has been extremely smooth from the Prada Cup up to now, but they are clearly not incapable of making fateful mistakes. I think we will continue to see 1-mistake racing from here on out, regardless of what that mistake is; be it sail choice, start position or unforced error in boat handling.
@@jamesaron1967 It's a complicated stuff,but the drag, affect mostly, your top speed.With a flatter foil you start foiling later but you have a better top speed than a high curved/ angled foil... As we are seing ,probably there are more dynamics involved that makes you faster.
Smaller, thiner foils and greater angle of incidence is better solution than larger thickness and more camber, especially for high speed. I loved the analysis though, except the part which is more like 'if my aunt had balls...'
ETNZ are improving race by race. Exceptional performance in 2nd race today. It will be hard for LunaRossa to win BOTH races overnight. But lets hope racing remains tight. LunaRossa seem to have the edge during the Start sequence, although ETNZ are good at staying up wind and approaching at speed.
It is interesting to see the ETNZ going for low and fast mode to beat LRPPs high mode. Seems like the tactics are made already before the races by sail-choices directly effect what kind of mode you gonna sail. Regarding the penalty system, that is something they must look into for AC37. To make a decision to leave the course to find wind shall be punished so much more and I guess in an old school match race it would result in at least a double penalty, forcing you to make one tack-and-gybe immediately after rejoining and one later when you as a sailor find it suitable.
Clever tactics before that tack by ETNZ, because it made LR think that that was the right thing to do, and in normal circumstances it was the normal thing. But then it was wrong, wrong, wrong. And when ETNZ gets ahead it has the legs. [That post was after race 9, which has just been run in New Zealand, and there again LR made a tack which they admitted afterwards turned out to be a mistake, but it can be said that ETNZ forced it.]
As Pete said in the press conference it is better to be lucky than good, clearly tense and anxious day for the brains trust and breeze callers, have a close listen to the stern cam footage in particular the difference in chatter about wind direction (and speed) between the two teams. It looked to me that both teams were struggling with the unmarked nature of boarderline lamina / turbulent transitions with associated gradient changes along with tricky to follow energy lines in at times cellular flow patterns. TNZ seemed to struggle a little less and appeared more comfortable in high levels of uncertainty.
I feel as if there is an inversion of the spirit of competition. It is not let the better boat win but let the less worse one win. Is there any way that something like foiling assistance can be produced in such light winds, at least to get up on the foils again?
If you start foiling outside the course, when you re-enter the course you have to set the boat back down. Would incur a consequence for the professional foul (time lost) and make the team that committed this foul have to use skill to restart.
Hey how fast would these boats go if the foils were as light as possible, no need for self righting boats as support is there , for next cup could help light airs ?though the extra righting moment probably massively outweighs the weight penalty so maybe heavier or leave t to the designers in each team . I think this cup is great though
Not sure that would be faster at all, potentially slower, since they gain a fair bit of righting moment from the windward foil in the air, just like a canting keel. The weight of leeward foil doesnt really hurt that much, more than general weight, since its at the point of rotation, but the windward foil has something like 11m of lever. To get the same amount of righting moment with super light foils, they yacht itself would need to be heavier, potentially about the same weight as the entire boat is now any way. So the only advantage of light foils would be that its easier to move them around and you would have a lower inertia in the turns, not sure that would even be beneficial?
@@fsconsultantcy2559 I'm not 100% I'm correct, but yeah, I think I'm in the ballpark at least :) Definitely looking forward to the racing today/tonight (04:00 in the night for me... :P)
I must say, in your comments section yesterday I predicted 2 over takes just to prove everyone’s theories wrong. Ended up being 3. So.. my next prediction... seeming everyone is onboard with ETNZ being faster, LR will get ahead and just sail away from ETNZ in one of the races. I feel like so much of the down speed performance is setup on the day.
Yeah but ETNZ were also unlucky to come off foils in first place and heading for lead then anyway so not sure why everyone saying LR so unlucky because so were TNZ. As for out of bounds rule I think u have to adjust your expectations as these boats have to get up foiling somehow, no one wants to see them stranded due to course restraints.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.920 | 3 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KwiW2M_kAg4/mqdefault.jpg)
In the post-race press conference Francesco summed up what it was like to race against New Zealand by saying, 'It is like trying to drown a fish under water.' Very witty. Very true.
Awesome races to watch. Respect to NZ for staying foiling at the last tack of the 2nd race. That, to me, was the clincher.
I have won many light air dinghy races myself, while the other skippers simply got frustrated and started making mistakes, or simply “lose the wind”. I had an old Shearwater IV cat and used to lie face up on the leeward bow to watch the vane, while my partner steered.
Won quite a few races that way! Good memories.
Aye. I learned about light wind sailing from father in law on a Lion class 36. Put it to good use on a Biscay Bay race from La Rochelle to San Sebastian on a SHE 36. Flat calm they called the last 2 miles. But you get a nice bow shaped main and a big jib to make the chimney and pretty soon a 1/4 knot is taking you somewhere else. Then a half knot just from temperature difference will allow you to go roughly nearer your finish line. Trouble is too many call it off and start their donk donk to get in early for the beers!
Win the start, win the race they said...
your kind with these 3 official commentators !
they are really irritating me (specialy cherley & the leader, ken is his name ?)
I do prefer Mozzy analysts, so expert & bring so much value to images
I used to sail a lot in shore regatas but I still have so much to learn !!!!
@@philippedumez8417 There is some tension in that commentary box, If Steven just opened (before the starting box) and closed the race and left the race commentary to Nathan and Ken all would be dandy.And the production is average, they seem to move from the critical action at the wrong times and the crowd shots are unforgivable during a race.
80% of the time it works that way, but nz learned how they can pass prada
Hey Mozzy! I think this is my first TH-cam comment ever. Just to let you know how I appreciate your thorough and unbiased analysis of this event so far. Your daily brilliant insights are among the reasons I’m enjoying this AC so much.
Gonna miss this.
I’d really love to see another analysis on LR’s generally (not in race 7) very good leeway angle upwind, which lets them overcome their significant handicap in boat speed and even VMG angle (VMG shown on screen is not over ground) and how ETNZ so effectively reacted to that in the last two days of racing drastically improving their efficiency upwind. So much still to uncover!
PS seeing your lately growing Italian fan-base and your attention for details I'd like to throw in a little suggestion:
The letter “U“ in Luna Rossa should be pronounced as in the world “lOOse”, only with a shorter sound (like “OU” in French). You could be the first anglophone commentator to get it right ;)
What have been last couple days for LR! One mistake each doesn't mean each mistake has same importance. Day 3, LR made a wrong start in 2nd race AFTER ETNZ did a similar mistake in previous race: too low in pre start and forced in a high mode/slow start. Today they falled from foils AFTER ETNZ did it and still didn't sail in a safe way. Sooo sad because on most things the guys are putting an incredible effort and doing so well! I hope we won't regret the choices... Forza LR! 🇮🇹
Even a know nothing like me has loved your channel & explanations. Thank you
I was astonished that, having dropped off the foils, ETNZ did not use the Code Zero (which I am told was on board) to pull themselves up onto their foils again. Yet again, a very good analysis from you, please keep up the good work! And I predict one each for tomorrow... cos I learned how to sit on a fence a few years ago (sailing an international canoe..)
There were some odd decisions being made that day, are you sure the code 0 was on board? Both teams could have used more sail area but they shy away because they're scared to death of additional drag, well, look what transpired...
Putting up the code 0 would be like admitting defeat in that position. When you get foiling you can’t stop again to switch back to a smaller code, so they’d have to carry that massive amount of drag for the whole race.
@@rydenkaye9735 If anything was proven this day, extra drag is definitely worth dealing with to avoid what afflicted both teams. They were woefully under-powered for the light patches, and it took them to recover what amounts in a race to forever.
@@jamesaron1967 It all comes down to the gamble of not falling off the foils. If you manage to teeter through, it is a win.
@@kukuc96 Yes, for race 1. Race 2 was a totally different ball game. The winds dropped and everyone knew it.
Nice with the out of bounds, exactly what I'd been thinking, they have to hit a point 50m or 100m back on the boundary just to enter again. Look forward to these videos as much as the races!!
Listen to the onboard coms and LR call the professional foul ahead of time with the codeword "pineapple" 🍍. Called it 3 times in race 8. 🍍🍍🍍
What does that mean and what consequences it has?
Thanks for great comment and yet another jumper. One question: that LR committed that professional foul to get back foiling makes me think about two things: 1) Just after they stop flying they could have continued straight without luffing for the mark (they were re-accelerating to 17kn when they started luffing; 2) they could have committed their professional foul when they reached that boundary the first time around, just after passing the mark when ETNZ was still 1000 meters behind: just before bouncing back to that boundary they had accelerated to 16kn.... So, yes, it was unlucky, but they could have saved it....
LR was so far outside the course on the last downwind they had to pass customs on the way in... ...took 8 mins, lost them the race...
Should they have tried to get foiling before they completed leg three?
@@abatesnz You can hear Jimmy say “if you don’t think we can get flying again, we’ll do that” (that being heading around the mark in displacement). It seems no one on board was confident they would get up again where they were. In the end we’ll never know
Picked up their stash, sailed back in, done deal😇😇
Checked into covid quarantine on the way back as well hehe
Thank you for your very interesting and well done analysis of the races!
Do you think that Rob was surprised this time?
Two big mistakes for LR, and only one for ETNZ. Great races!!
Mate you are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for these videos. I stay up late waiting for your upload.
The cup ain’t ours until 7 races are won,after yesterday it proves anything can happen
Kia Ora from Auckland! Nice work Mozzie. Nothing is certain with the combination of these boats, weather and talent. It could easily be squared at 5:5 with Spithill at the helm. So even as a kiwi I reckon there’s more exciting sailing ahead. However, I reckon that yesterday’s ‘next level’ performance from ETNZ is exactly what a team needs to be able to do, to win the America’s Cup.
And Yes, the penalty rules need to be addressed Mozzy!
Te Rehutai’s deeper bellied main in the lower 2m adjustment zone appeared to give them significant drive advantage in lighter airs today. Not sure if the recent clew mods has enabled that but they seem to be able to overhaul LR upwind in a manner not seen in the first two days of racing(?)
Feels like we’re moving from “win the start you win the race” to “fastest boat wins”(?). 😬
The extra area certainly didn't hurt, but NZ also demonstrated amazing control on their main. I've never seen that much camber. Either something was modified or I wasn't aware there was that much shape control on these dual-skin mains. Wondering if LR has the same range of shape control.
You can tell that upwind gains is where they are working at the sacrifice of the downwind speed. But maybe that's what I see
Lead boat still holds many advantages. Can control the course through maneuver.
But if you let a faster boat get close enough to have a go? It can slip past you without you doing anything.
If LR had forced a close to boundary duel on ETNZ by sailing up the middle, they might have kept bad air and difficult choices for the trailing boat, but they allowed a gap, a bit confident in their lead upwind, and ETNZ just sailed their own race and got away.
In those airs, ETNZ could afford to take extra maneuvers because they could build the speed needed to simply outrun LR. While LR, felt less maneuvers means more speed, and the boats are even. But wind was up, and the equation of the last three days has changed when the two Jibs were not evenly matched
As for the second race, I watched ETNZ accelerate from 15 to 18 knots in seconds, pop up and immediately start foiling. And LR crawled from 14 knots to 19 over about a minute then popped up, started foiling and kept building speed, off course, to allow a maneuver.
They really did park their boat in the worst part of the course.
Might have been better to drop a spinnaker and get down course to find better air to 'mow the lawn' in.
Be really quite frustrating, but better than what they ultimately did.
The larger mainsail on ETNZ also explains the smaller jibs.
LR also had very hollow sails in this race, at least at some points.
@@glenmcgillivray4707 Spinnakers are not in the sail package of the AC75 as far as I know.
I'm curious about why the cavitation happened that LR experienced. Seems like the crew were totally prepared for a light wind maneuver. Did the flight controller over do the flap angle to make sure they stayed up and produced the disatrous cavitation as an unintended side effect. Unfortunate to discover this combination during the race if it was.
Just noticed ETNZ have LiDAR on board, any idea what they are doing with that? Measuring sail shape? wind modelling?
where did u see that?
@@HulioPalas next to the grinders. Its a small circular silver can with fins for heatsinking. I know its an ouster lidar because i use them often
As a Kiwi, that was one of the most tense, drama filled races I have ever seen!! And yet, I don't like it because too much luck was involved. Both teams (at different stages) looked strong, only to be completely undone by virtually no wind.
I certainly don't mind tricky wind conditions, and having to pick the shifts - that's sailing - but the point is, there is still 'wind'. You need that to sail...
Thanks for your comment Simon and mentioning luck.
I agree completely. I didn't like race 8 at all and I'm rooting for NZ. I just want to see true team competition, not competition against the weather...!
Just ETNZ falling from their foils was a mistake of bad judgment (they entered LR gas and turbulence) while LR falling off was complete unexpected bad luck
Same bad luck just before the end of the first leg when a wind shift massively advantaged ETNZ and allowed it to come back into the game even though they were on the left side of the court which was supposed to be the weakest
As Mozzy said, race 8 was very unlucky for LR and quite lucky for TNZ.
LR raced well and did everything they were supposed to.
@@rougesify Blair Tuke indicated (in the PM conference) that they thought they had enough speed to gybe thru the LR wind shadow but there wasn't enough breeze to pull it off - Similar risk for LR in their tack. Bad luck for sure, but not 'completely unexpected'. A bit more breeze and neither boat would have fallen off their foils.
Picking that shift in the first race is what match racing is all about. I thought TNZ did a great job on the rounding and caught LR napping a bit.
@@rougesify actually, after listening to the crew comms on Luna Rosa it would seem that they fell off the foil due to several crew errors, not bad luck. Still, I think the second race yesterday was a waste of time in conditions like that. I don't agree with shortening the race either, it should be based on time limit only.
For a moment, I thought your referencing race 10: "that tack that cost them the cup".
Smacking analysis as usual. Looking forward to the next video
Personally, 27.5 into the LR fateful tack in R8 was not the issue. For, I hope, obvious reasons, I won't comment on what may have caused the touchdown. But I would appreciate your discussion of what LR did with a botched tack at layline with a huge lead. I think there was no tactical reason to go in displacement mode further into light air, just for a mark rounding. Having dropped under 20 knots, why not reach for all its worth to have another go at it?
This is what I said to Magnus Wheatley. They thought about it for a micro second from their conversation then changed their minds and just carried on.
When this is over, Doug, I hope you will shed some light on why the boat encountered a massive cavitation on that tack when going well above the threshold for a successful tack. When I watched LR continuing in displacement mode to round the weather mark, I thought it a good idea -- until I saw the angles needed to get foiling again. You're so spot on that taking that time to get around the mark in displacement mode cost LR time that could have been used to get foiling again. Thank you for that top notch interview, too!
Maybe it wasn't cavitation, but foil stall.
@@lestergilbert5224 jimmy said the words "massive cavitation boys" which means it was likely a mistake they made with flap angle.
Thanks for all your Insight to this boat racing lark,Ineos sparked my interest been glued since what an education
Considering how efficiently these boats extract energy from the wind (leaving so much less for a boat following in dirty air), and how much faster than the true wind they are travelling (with the resulting huge delta between true and apparent), and the heights of their rigs, perhaps you could discuss what AC75 wind shadows look like (distance, direction, for upwind and downwind). Sometimes I'm puzzled when I see a boat surviving dirty air when I think it shouldn't, or getting killed when I think it should be in the clear.
He already has a video on that topic, he released it a couple days ago
I think that video may have been based on the normal rules of thumb based on rig height etc for the effects in front, to windward, to leeward and behind. But I have to say that I am lost on what theses machines do to the wind, I would guess it is more about bending and slowing rather than disturbing the air than usual and that the impact is vastly longer lasting and extended further downwind... I have never seen anything like the upwind performance / energy absorption of an AC75.
I agree. But, short of wind tunnel testing (or input from someone who’s seen the results of it on these rigs) difficult to see how we can have anything but guesswork. Even aircraft wing wakes and vortices not that relevant (or maybe a low speed Cessna wing is?)
These Mozzy Sails guys are pretty good at reverse engineering conclusions from observations. I think maybe looking at sailboats' tracks for speed and heading information at assorted boat against boat positions might give some clues.
Ditto.
The wind shadows must be a lot more complex; turbulence, low pressure, location, distance, boat speed relative to wind speed. The sail area is huge and, these boats are so sensitive, or as you put it, efficient in extracting energy.
I think in the moments before ENTZ put in the gybe and came off the foil, LR had a problem with their jib, they couldn't trim it, maybe a riding turn. I thought ENTZ were going to roll over the top but as it was the gybed. Agreed re your closing analysis, LR could readily win the next two races. Massive credit to ENTZ in managing to compete in these low winds. Cheers again for the vid MS.
Mozzy Sails, Mate, you saw so much, I was there, and all i saw was our boat (The Kiwis) Floundering in the water, My heart was in my mouth, my mouth was dry, tears in my eyes, Willing Luna Rosa, to either sink, snap a sail, or lose a man overboard. I almost had another Giant orgasm when the Italians game to a dead stop later & we sailed to a win, Mate, nail-biting stuff for us onlookers. But wow, you saw so much with the sails & tacks, plus wind direction. I think the penalty should be a "Penalty turn" a complete circle
That’s what we need: shifts, holes and light winds; foiling at the edge!?!!..😳😰😱😍👍👌😜
Glad we are back to the fully branded look lol!
I do wonder about these penalties - What's the point of a boundary if there's no repercussions in over reaching it?
At one stage LR was deemed to have a 'double penalty' for sailing what looked like a ridiculous amount of metres out of bounds and within a few seconds was told 'penalty cleared' how?
For comparison, the same debate has been happening in F1over the years - their solution is no nonsense, if you gain an advantage you and overtake then you let the car behind pass you on track, if you fail to do that then you either receive a time penalty that will be added to your finishing time or drive through the pits penalty will be sanctioned. Now what would have happened if LR got foiling under a double oob penalty and came back and won the race? What happens if you get get a triple/quadruple penalty and come back foiling in the best position and overtake your rival who has been respecting the boundaries the entire race?
AFAIK, the border penalty is cleared by giving away 30m to the adversary. At the rate LR was plodding along, compared to ETNZ’s flying, the 90m required to clear the 3 penalties LR received were gone in a matter of seconds. Once LR were back within the boundaries the penalty evaporated as fast... as their lead
Sitting and watching. Luna earned like 7 penalties from their maneuver.
So they had to give 350 meters total.
And ETNZ got over a kilometer ahead. So the penalties were removed, but LR was also instructed to continue their penalty despite foiling in the middle of the course. Which just forced them to build power and speed in the light airs.
Probably need to insist on two 'mowing the lawn' jibes, a pair of 180 turns as a penalty, sucking down speed instead of just distance, all without forcing any particular distance penalty.
boundary lines should be given the same respect as an imaginary impenetrable wall or cluster line of mines that the moment you professionally foul sail over [or mistakenly] the consequences are pretty severe.
Maybe instant yellow card and 10 minutes in the bin a bit like rugby. When there's hundreds of millions of dollars on the line for each campaign plus what it's worth for the Defender economy... spitall and co were desperate to do something despite crossing boundaries.
Great intense off-your-seat racing though...
@@brentmags8574 I would judge the boundary to be porous. allowing a penalty for minor offenses.
And a brick wall of disqualification if you stray further by failing to take action.
Still that was quite a fun race, so certain we were if TNZ failing due to their error, just to watch a reversal
Another great video many thanks. If there is time could you explain the impact of wind wash on the downwind legs?
Not to go for course C today will be a big mistake..... I’ve wind surfed on this harbour for 40 years and can tell you there’s a big chance the sou’wester could break through the conversion zone before 5pm (if the clouds stay around during the day) and that breeze funnels out passed north head ... game on!!!
I don;t think it was a mistake at all, best race of the series and made for some excitement
Brilliant analysis as always!
Really interesting analysis of the last two races. The mistakes made by both boats appeared quite obvious and in the end it was clearly Luna Rossa who paid the most for them even considering the kind of mistakes.
I agree with the doubts of the race rules. Personally I think they are very ineffective in a general sense, both in terms of "logic" and in terms of the penalties to be served - especially for situations that can occur during the regatta after the pre-start phase -. It is clear to me that the racing rules must be rewritten in a manner appropriate to the characteristics and performance of the AC75s. In essence they are "marine racing vehicles" that displacement boats share the sea (just when they are unable to compete) and the force of the wind but everything else is a completely different philosophy and as such should be managed appropriately, both considering the safety of the competition, and in terms of homogeneity of the rules and the uniformity of the judgment of the referees
Greetings...
I have no idea what you're talking about but I'm glad NZ have pulled ahead :)
Mozzy, are we likely to see an analysis of the clew fairing change on the Emirates boat from you? I'd be interested.
After the cup is decided could you get a hold of the full race tapes and give us your analysis over the whole of each race? Your work during this series has been outstanding. You could use these full race commentaries as audition tapes to give to the defender and challenger of record to be the official commenter ('s you and your 2 cohorts) for the next cup.
Could you give a a drawing of the outhaul arrangement at the mainsail clews, please? What I am envisioning is back to back traveler track with a car and ram (forward puller?) for each clew for independent chord depth control of each skin. Is that how it works?
Are the cars attached to the clew patch of each skin some distance forward of the clew ~ 10"?), with cloth stiffening plates aft of the attachment points ? Is the mainsheet attached to the approx. midpoint of the back to back traveler traveler tracks with car forward offering less chord depth (flatter sail) and conversely car aft greater chord depth (fuller sail)? Seems like this arrangement could see application in allowing self tacking overlapping jibs with "constant arc" traveler track forward of the mast ala the Soling. The track could have a "jiggle" forward to get around the mast and allow the track to have an imaginary arc that if truly constant could pass aft of the mast. Seems this would allow jib overlap values that would allow the clew to extend aft of the deck track some distance related to the distance of the back to back clew traveler car(s) attachment point(s) to the clew patch forward of the clew. This could work even with a single skinned jib with the clew patch split in two to encase the car for protection from the mast when tacking and gybing. Sorry for the wordiness.
Wow..... certainly got a good following here!! I'm really enjoying your analysis..... great work guys
"Never under 28 for the tacks boys". Bruni knew how to NOT lose the race.
Top notch analysis. Why I am not surprised. 👍🏻
Some questions I’m going to throw out here 1) what role do the grinders have in getting a boat back on the foils? Is it harder to control the main while not foiling?
2) do the hydraulic systems recharge the batteries that control the rudder and foils?
3) is it possible or known that a helicopter caused the puff that sent American Magic flying?
4)if the helicopter pilot is a kiwi, do you think this puts other teams at a disadvantage? ( the angles looking into the boats as well as where the downdraft is placed)
5) what are the rules with the race committee shortening the race? Is it a judgement call or is it technical based on wind speed? It would have been nice to give LR a chance on race day 5 to comeback after they fell off the foils
Mossy, great channel, I always look forward to it!
I really like your videos. Well done
LRPP was on J1.5 ETNZ on J3 so two sizes different. However the window for each size is only 2-3 knots as per Ken Read on TH-cam
What does Ken know about sails 🤣
@@rbcg105 He is North of us ;-)
Super update Mozzy thank you!!
Out of bounds penalties definitely need looking at, your suggestion seemed sound.
Given that umpire awarded a double penalty 100m does that mean he recognised the "professional foul". Had LRPP done this before ETNZ overhauled them and gone on to win the race then I would assume ETNZ would have subsequently protested the result. If ETNZ had done same during their incident pretty sure LRPP would have protested as well. Unless rules specifically preclude this?.
@@derekstannett8477 Pistol Pete.- Its time again - Hammer down, 2 from 2 !!!
It's surely only a matter of time before someone gains a race winning advantage from deliberately sailing outside the course area to get on the foils.
Presumably when this happens a protest under rule 2 or 69 would be an open and closed case?
Keep up the good work mate, awesome videos
2 questions to understand, for everyone has the data to answer: 1 - when the race reduction call has been made? 2 - TNZ would have finish in time limits whiteout race length change?...and obviously, thanks to Mozzy for all the work.
The race was shortened when Prada had a huge lead, so if they stayed on the foils it was to their benefit.
@@slooob23 dank
It is a common and sensible practice for any race committee to shorten the course when they expect the wind to die. Here it was called shortly after (and probably inspired by) ETNZ touching down, when LRPP was way ahead. Nothing suspicious here.
@@nauticfilms and others....thank for clearing..
@@nauticfilms Ok, it look reasonable...and no question CA end hasn't changed for this, but.....let's joke to make it easy. It take me back to "A Few Good Men". The film. Remember the final scene...."why the two orders!!!" ... or something like... Why the two rules!?! "time limit" and "Race reduction". think about for a second. If you had a time limit rule, you put it there to say "OK, the race result is not to take in account in this conditions."; it's written, it's clelar and it's measurable, but ...if you use race reduction YOU decide when to make the result valid, on your own decision and time limits can go in the trash. no more by a written rule.....so....."Then why the two orders? Colonel?" :)
Looks like it's going to be like Sundays wind here in AK. Let's hope racing canned & back into it on Wednesday when there is expected some real wind & a chance to see what these boats are like @ the top end
Why was the course shortened by one leg? Was it possible?
The commentators said that was allowed (mid race) to meet time constraints. Seems it could give the leading boat an enormous advantage, except in this case LR were leading at the time(!?)
Hi Mozzy just a question Who would you blame for LR falling off the foils Jimmy or Bruni?? They were really communicating a lot up till that point.
WRT to the rule about going off-course - they know full well what the limits are, they shouldn't need rules except say if you go out of bounds, you are out.
Obviously, I am not a sailor, but seems to me complaining about a rule that is very very easy to comply with is silly. Great stuff as always, man. I love your channel.
Not sure if you have done this yet, but would love to get your input on the starts this cup. Spithill had some great aggressive plays, while Burling made some good strategic plays. Thoughts?
Always learn something, or a lot, from these vids. Thanks Mozzy for all your videos, they are bloody great, informative and full of good
natured banter. Between the Cup,the AC75, yourself and others sticking their necks out- in lieu of the lack of decent commercial analysis, keyboard talk and not least the teams talking around every question, with good reason I guess- my interest in yachting has been piqued and I'm on board, literally to the nearest sailing club.
The most exciting day so far. Light winds expected for next 3 days.
God, that sucks...
10-15 is the forecast for tomorrow - not sure where your info came from...will be good to see the boats dial up the pace.
Can you go over high mode and low mode or did you already do that? I don't quite understand what these terms mean.
I covered them in here th-cam.com/video/iRpaVNeUphA/w-d-xo.html
But 'high mode' is when you head up, closer the the wind, to sail a course higher than your optimum fastest (velocity made good) angle, which will see you cover less distance to get up wind, but at a slower speed. Low mode is the opposite, when you bear away from the wind, to sail a course slightly lower than optimum, covering greater distance, but at a greater speed.
Whilst neither mode is 'faster' than the optimum, they can be used in conjunction with shifts and wind speed, and the positioning relative to your opponent to open up a tactical or strategical advantage.
@@MozzySails "Low mode [...] covering less distance" Erm, covering *more* distance, I think! Darn fingers get carried away....
@@lestergilbert5224 ha, yeah! Edited the above. Thanks
I knew NZ was going to win race one the moment they got their bow into clean air. That was a huge mistake by LR, one I'm sure they're kicking themselves about.
That seems to be the big difference right. ETNZ get a sniff, and it’s game over. LR get ahead and it’s game on.
@@stefanzzz6778 Yeah, ETNZ clearly has a faster boat, seemingly in all conditions. I mean, even with a smaller jib and their small foils they did a lot better in the very light winds in Race 8. It hardly even looks like LRPP has much of a tacking advantage anymore, maybe a bit more consistent, but ETNZ tacks better a lot of the time now even in the light.
@@Robinlarsson83 ETNZ stated in their interviews they've been learning a lot. What I gathered from that is they've been not only making some modifications but also sailing their boat differently where they were less than ideal in the first few races. Improvements all around and it shows.
Chapeaux to the best sailors of the world 🇦🇺
Great comments thanks from Halifax Canada. Especially “bank that gain not get greedy “!
I am Italian, and therefore a fan of Luna Rossa, but I must admit that the Kiwis, despite the mistake, have more sensitivity to not get off the foils. The Italians had a bit of bad luck, with that hole in the wind, but I would have done that tack without risking anything, they had an advantage of 2460 m ... too bad, because they had raced well ... Good Kiwis, who did not they surrendered ... I'm afraid the cup will remain in NZ ... FORZA ITALIA, FORZA LUNA ROSSA ... !!
Enjoy the race!
I appreciate the Italian contribution to the cup
Sadly we Germans do not, we only support LR with a great engineering guy.
I am happy about all teams trying to win the cup and pushing the limits of technology. ETZ is among them, so no problem with them.
Some former (American) Teams used other ways to win the cup, not fair at all.
LR still has a chance!
TNZ got off the foil for their error with windo to restart, LR go off the foil turning in a moment where the wind is really ligth
Exactly, different part of the course, ETNZ just in enough wind to get going. Pity is that Francesco and Jimmy thought about just going straight to the boundary "horizontally" to get foiling again but then almost in the same breath dismissed it. What a pity, i think either that way or coming back down the course a little to get enough wind foiling would have meant they would still have won.
how great are your analysis Mozzy, I'm your most consistent follower !
5:19 it was the moment when nobody could understand LRPP jib trimming position. They were very slow. Commentators thought they had a technical problem
Fantastic analysis. Subscribed.
Who are you sponsored by? ;) Cracking video as per usual. Mozzy Sails does it best.
In kitefoiling when wind is super light we start doing foiling jibes instead od foiling tacks...its much more safer...😅😁
Wait you turn the wrong way to keep the air cleaner?
Sounds like a tactic we haven't witnessed on these monsters yet
What works for kite foiling need not pay out with this monsters generating huge wind shadows (disturbed air)
A gybe instead of a tack forces you passing the own disturbed air which was the biggest issue today.
It is the same with sailing cats. Sometimes you will gybe 270deg insted of tacking 90deg because at least you know you will keep moving. If you tack you risk being stalled heading directly into the wind.
@@davehorry7967 Sailing with your leisure cat and sailing with this boats three times as fast as the wind is a different story.
Did you see the new clew and higher position of the clew control wires which allow super snakey main sail shapes!?
Something definitely changed. Crazy shape!
On which boat?
@@LMcGearty ETNZ
@@LMcGearty te rehutai.
Great analysis, thanks.
One thing, though: the discussion about the boundary penalty is moot.
If the rules were different they would have behaved differently. Period. They went as far off the course as necessary to get foiling because they knew what penalties they would have incurred. Different rules, different behaviour.
Do the rules make sense? I’m not sure they have been drafted lightly and with no forethought. If you had to go back where you left the race course and re-enter at a lower speed, a tiny infringement like that of Ineos that caused Sir Ben to utter “what do you want us to do?” would have caused infinite disaster.
If you go off course intentionally, you are already desperate...
Completely agree. I am just being grumpy, and flagging it for change for the next cup. If we'd had the world series events as planned I am sure some of these weird quirks would have been ironed out. Like I said, in the end it didn't matter, however, it would have felt unfair should Luna Rossa have had gone on to win.
@@MozzySails Yeah, the rules evolve with time in almost every sport. You are an experienced sailor, there is no need to remind you of that.
AC being held every 4 years, changes have time to get implemented and understood by all parties involved.
Who knows if the AC75s will be used again in the AC? I hope they will, since the class is brand new and it's astoundingly spectacular to watch.
I hope the design progress and new, even more revolutionary ideas come out, not unlike the design differences between the fat IACC yachts of the 1992 AC compared to the anorexic ones of the subsequent editions (you are probably too young to remember the 1992 ones...).
I also hope that the challenger crowd will include more than 3 boats/nations in the future.
Finally, it would be a shame if these magnificent beasts were used only in Prada Cup/America's Cup events. I'd love to see them ripping around sailing courses like the alien spaceships they really are in the 4 years to come before the next AC event.
My pop corn is ready...
Best day of racing so far
I am not an expert, but only passionate.
I wonder if it's like cursing if I imagine the solution to LR's problem (at the tack when she fell) was a 270 ° jibe turn.
Having taken the inertia force, tackle the windward mark
Sorry if I said a fool
Thanks Mozzy for what you allow me to learn about sailing
I have heard quite a bit about TNZ 'losing' both starts. I have a strong suspicion that TNZ have really got their boat dialed in nicely now and just need to be 'close' at the starts. Engaging and risking a penalty is not worth it.
Reading between the lines, TNZ have worked out what they have to do to beat LR, and it isn't necessarily all at the start. They seem to have really improved their upwind speed giving them an opportunity to get in front during the race.
Perfect comment
@@golly1810 Thanks. Listening to Peter Lester helps.
He has noted that LR has a good upwind 'high mode' whereas TNZ need to be a bit 'bow down' (kinda like multihulls which tend to close reach upwind, rather than beating.) So if the boats are close, LR can dictate and compete. But if TNZ can get separation they can start to sail with better efficiency.
Comments from the post race conference implies that due to these boats complexity in maintaining flight that there is less time for eyes on the opposing boat. This could be a contributing factory in missing key observations during the race, such as wind holes.
Hey Mozzy. A curly one for you.
If ETNZ had not finished by 6pm NZ time, would all the blood, sweat and tears have been for nothing.
By not finishing could they have called a postponement. ???
Jeez I was on the edge of my seat, blood pressure through the roof 😂.
Great race showing off their skills to keep in the race 👍. Well done ETNZ.
I'm not an expert but my understanding is as long as they start by 6pm, the race continues on even after that time. It then becomes a question of finishing within the 45 minute time limit. Furthermore, if they didn't finish within the 45 minute time limit, I believe the race would've been postponed if prior to 6pm and abandoned if after 6pm.
I'm really not sure it's that JK that made them pass LRPP. The distance between the 2 boats decreased way too fast, like a different wind angle would do. I don't think they had the same wind at all just after that rounding. I could be wrong. Is there a way to check?
Yeah, that the data I showed with the wind shift, 11 degrees right shift. But they wouldn't have go to that that shidt ahead of LR without the J-K.
Just a question, it seems to me that the race is all about the "boat", and not about the crew. What would the outcome be if the boats were swapped after every race ?
Thanks for another better technical analysis. When ETNZ came off foils when gybing being LRPP they seemed to round up very quickly and further than normal, almost like they lost control of the back end. Probably my observation is incorrect, would have noticed a pressure drop that quickly?.
You can hear the press press press calls on board so the round up was controlled. They were worried about not being able to swing for the jybe so went into a low mode and then entered what was a pressured jybe already decelerated(ing) while running into lighter air and each others gas. Thinking a couple of steps ahead it was a difficult spot to be in for TNZ. Could have made for some interesting luffing, boundary action, rolls and maybe splashdowns(?) if they had kept going... Probably the right call in a 49er...
@@JW-sl7zz yeah, my 49er days now long gone 😞, but yes, would have been a hairy ride if they had carried on. Will listen to stern cam in the hours waiting for today's race (and wind!!!).
10:04. In New Zealand we have just seen what actually happened in race 9. Race 10 was abandoned because the wind did not settle on Course C. No spoiler. But see if Mozzy's prediction was right...
ETNZ can do the single foil JK...would there be something to do with their flat foils? Even when they put the cant to 72 degrees, their inner foil still able to provide effective lift [due to their flat foils]. The same might not be true for Luna Rossa as they have v-shaped foils...their inner foil would then be too vertical should they put their cant @72 degrees. Just a thought.
Yes, kiwi foils can go deeper because they aren't v shaped so foil arm is longer.
Good analysis yet again Mozzy.Yes you are right if LR had overtaken TNZ there would have been screaming about the penalties.
AC is nothing about the sportsmanship just the rules & LR was just doing what they needed to do. Apologies to Tom, his VPP is looking pretty good if LR has the wrong jib :-)
These races are being a lot of fun, very exciting and unpredictable. I say so because I like sailing, I like match race, I like these foiled monsters and I empathized with the crews and their challenges. But I have to admit that for a not-savvy spectator is kind of weird to watch one of the boats heading full speed towards a mark, and the other one barely advancing, heading opposite direction sometimes, even going out of the race course, and all that apparently half sunk.
C'est la vie. That's the modern AC for you...
Why do we need this concept of "bounds" at all?
Is it to allow the spectators to be near? Is it to try to ensure more than one tack/gybe on each leg? Is it to make it easier to fit a course into the area available?
I don't find any of those compelling. Just extend the windward and leeward lay lines until they intersect and keep the spectator fleet 200m outside that. Going outside that area is its own penalty. Maybe you'll get a procession up one lay line to the other, or maybe the trailing boat will take a *really* big spilt. Or maybe there'll be a tacking duel somewhere up the middle -- going out to the edge gives a big risk of being far overstood if there is a wind shift.
All of the above. And all makes sense. I think everybody figured out by now that they went a bit toooo narrow.
Nice review of the races, thank you! Personally, I think Team NZ is looking pretty hot to trot in that multicoloured boat of their. Vmgs at least +3 knts on the first race, and they caught up pretty quick on the second race too.
Where is the wind shadow graphics ffs like the old days?
That was great viewing seeing the disturbed air
Great content as always
Appreciate it!
Can you comment more on why Luna Rosa spent so much time near the top end of the course off the foils were the wind was too light, rather than displacement sailing down the course to get into the better "foiling" wind? Hind sight suggests this was a critical call.
Large foils in light winds clearly aren't a cure-all...
I think that advantage was greatly overestimated. The larger foil area, in this case 30%, produces more more lift but it also induces more drag, thereby slowing the boat when it needed more speed to lift out of the water.
@@jamesaron1967 Agreed. More than anything else, I believe the teams and equipment are both adequate to the task, with the results coming down to a single mistake in seamanship in most cases. LR has been extremely smooth from the Prada Cup up to now, but they are clearly not incapable of making fateful mistakes. I think we will continue to see 1-mistake racing from here on out, regardless of what that mistake is; be it sail choice, start position or unforced error in boat handling.
@@jamesaron1967 It's a complicated stuff,but the drag, affect mostly, your top speed.With a flatter foil you start foiling later but you have a better top speed than a high curved/ angled foil...
As we are seing ,probably there are more dynamics involved that makes you faster.
Smaller, thiner foils and greater angle of incidence is better solution than larger thickness and more camber, especially for high speed. I loved the analysis though, except the part which is more like 'if my aunt had balls...'
I think that they are learning a new sport,with such low gusty winds,also who uses his foil better wins.
ETNZ are improving race by race. Exceptional performance in 2nd race today. It will be hard for LunaRossa to win BOTH races overnight. But lets hope racing remains tight. LunaRossa seem to have the edge during the Start sequence, although ETNZ are good at staying up wind and approaching at speed.
How do you get all that data on cant and everything on the video?
It is interesting to see the ETNZ going for low and fast mode to beat LRPPs high mode. Seems like the tactics are made already before the races by sail-choices directly effect what kind of mode you gonna sail.
Regarding the penalty system, that is something they must look into for AC37. To make a decision to leave the course to find wind shall be punished so much more and I guess in an old school match race it would result in at least a double penalty, forcing you to make one tack-and-gybe immediately after rejoining and one later when you as a sailor find it suitable.
Race 8 was really entertaining to watch! Race 7, wow, what a brilliant win, what silly mistakes
Now *that* is a jumper
LR's boat is maxed out. ETNZ is still improving. So too is the crew work.
Clever tactics before that tack by ETNZ, because it made LR think that that was the right thing to do, and in normal circumstances it was the normal thing. But then it was wrong, wrong, wrong. And when ETNZ gets ahead it has the legs. [That post was after race 9, which has just been run in New Zealand, and there again LR made a tack which they admitted afterwards turned out to be a mistake, but it can be said that ETNZ forced it.]
As Pete said in the press conference it is better to be lucky than good, clearly tense and anxious day for the brains trust and breeze callers, have a close listen to the stern cam footage in particular the difference in chatter about wind direction (and speed) between the two teams. It looked to me that both teams were struggling with the unmarked nature of boarderline lamina / turbulent transitions with associated gradient changes along with tricky to follow energy lines in at times cellular flow patterns. TNZ seemed to struggle a little less and appeared more comfortable in high levels of uncertainty.
Why only one foil down to get on the foils. Would it not work better with both down?
You might think that. But two foils down reduces the righting moment and increases drag. So its always better to do it on one foil.
I feel as if there is an inversion of the spirit of competition. It is not let the better boat win but let the less worse one win. Is there any way that something like foiling assistance can be produced in such light winds, at least to get up on the foils again?
If you start foiling outside the course, when you re-enter the course you have to set the boat back down. Would incur a consequence for the professional foul (time lost) and make the team that committed this foul have to use skill to restart.
Rule should be if you're off your foils when you leave the course, you must be off the foils when you re-enter it.
2:25 - Use your spill-chucker, Mozzy; the word is "gauge"!
Hey how fast would these boats go if the foils were as light as possible, no need for self righting boats as support is there , for next cup could help light airs ?though the extra righting moment probably massively outweighs the weight penalty so maybe heavier or leave t to the designers in each team . I think this cup is great though
Not sure that would be faster at all, potentially slower, since they gain a fair bit of righting moment from the windward foil in the air, just like a canting keel. The weight of leeward foil doesnt really hurt that much, more than general weight, since its at the point of rotation, but the windward foil has something like 11m of lever. To get the same amount of righting moment with super light foils, they yacht itself would need to be heavier, potentially about the same weight as the entire boat is now any way.
So the only advantage of light foils would be that its easier to move them around and you would have a lower inertia in the turns, not sure that would even be beneficial?
@@Robinlarsson83 I did wonder if the righting moment would outway the weight loss! Thanks for answering looking forward to 3am!
@@fsconsultantcy2559 I'm not 100% I'm correct, but yeah, I think I'm in the ballpark at least :)
Definitely looking forward to the racing today/tonight (04:00 in the night for me... :P)
I must say, in your comments section yesterday I predicted 2 over takes just to prove everyone’s theories wrong. Ended up being 3. So.. my next prediction... seeming everyone is onboard with ETNZ being faster, LR will get ahead and just sail away from ETNZ in one of the races. I feel like so much of the down speed performance is setup on the day.
Well.. we can say your prediction was off.
Yeah but ETNZ were also unlucky to come off foils in first place and heading for lead then anyway so not sure why everyone saying LR so unlucky because so were TNZ. As for out of bounds rule I think u have to adjust your expectations as these boats have to get up foiling somehow, no one wants to see them stranded due to course restraints.