I guess the follow up question with the twin main sheet is: Why didn't other teams copy? The answer is that this system includes a below deck boom which acts a structural member, essentially a 'stringer' which rotates with the loads. This structural element is built in to the DNA of the yacht and is almost impossible to copy once the hull is made.
But with all the technical expertise available to them, why didn't other teams work out for themselves that separate control of the sail skins would lead to a better performing wing ?
The sail design will catch on. A couple of cups ago team nz were the only team with bikes then everyone had them😂 💯 agree team nz were soft at starting it was frustrating. They just relied on rolling them upwind
Mate, super grateful from New Zealand for arming me, a non-sailor, with the vital info that I can use at the family Xmas barbeque with my know-it-all sailing brothers and nephews!
Great video, with regard to Burlings starts, I think you are right, he doesn't try to win starts because that's risky, an even start is enough for him to win the race. However in Bermuda we did see him contest the starts with Spithill, I suppose he thought he had to, and beat him thoroughly. So Burling is not weak with starts, but he would rather avoid that win/lose equation. In this cup the commentators suggested he was losing starts, as he took the favoured side again and again. I think people sleep on Burlings starts a bit, this is not his weakness, it's just not his primary tool.
I'm not sure, I thought ETNZ were pretty aggressive in the starts. They tried to block INEOS's circle at least twice, and there was also that time they chased INEOS above the start line. That's aggression on 3/4 of their starboard entries. If you just want a clean start you do what Luna Rossa did
This. There's a lot of focus on INEOS typically having better speed across the line, and winning the "advantageous" position, ignoring that that advantage had been completely undone at the first crossing. ETNZ knew that they had the tacking advantage and could afford to sacrifice a manoeuvre in order to get the better wind, and in most of the races that theory bore out.
@greybuckleton You are SPOT ON! I saw this after my comment on Pete's starts. He is one of the best, and sometimes losing the start to bail right is THE winning move (at least twice this cup and Final of the last cup!).
Thanks for your vids. Transformed my enjoyment of this comp. You’re commitment to telling us your best estimates of what was known at any one time was courageous with so many followers and reflected in your regular review on occasion of your own earlier thoughts as the comp progressed 🎉
Given an equal boat Peter Burling and Nathan Outteridge had to be considered favourites. They are just the two best sailors in the world. As it turned out they had a more than equal boat. Fantastic team effort and exceptional talent at the sharp end.
I think Ben's comment at the end summed it up well. This is the best team in the modern history of the AC, maybe of all time. The combination of organization, talent and yacht design may never be equaled again if there are significant changes in the future. NZ better keep the bar up high because the other teams will be gunning for them more than ever...
Thank you Mozzy for the fabulous insights you’ve given us for months now about this AC37. I’m a New Zealand sailor and ETNZ fan of 40 years and never before have I come across such knowledgeable commentary on the “why and how’s” of the yachts and the sailing. All three of you have provided insights and explanations in a way that a non-engineer can understand. I’ve liked forward to your videos dropping and with this one “Why ETNZ won” has given me even more regard for the strength of our ERNZ team than I had before. I’ll follow your future videos with interest. (Maybe ETNZ needs to buy your silence for our next campaign!)
ETNZ I am sure, did not mind losing some starts so they could be left alone to take the side with the good wind. ETNZ always seemed to know exactly how the wind was mapped and that can be heard in the comms. Knowing the wind and being able to roll tack already made them almost unbeatable. They minimised human fiddling about and nailed the wind mapping almost perfectly by some means or other. With the roll tacking they could lose the start and still cross ahead on the next cross. I fully understand the ingenuity of ETNZ. Exactly what I would have done and been laughed at probably in the UK. Out of the box Blue Sky thinking. And next time expect more! They only came unstuck with big waves which will no doubt be fixed next time. INEOS need to match their innovation and more!
@@vjekoorlandini6744 They got that from the British before 1950 who since WW2 have gone on a philosophy of: only University Degrees count in their elitist world. Very snobbish because many amateurs and company workers have to be very innovative but may not have had time or inclination to study for a University Degree. I don’t think INEOS will be able to beat them unless they completely change who they are advised by. It’s all about drawing up an impossible wish list then making the impossible happen! You need proven blue sky thinkers who have deep technical understanding of sailing, engineering and many other technical and scientific fields who naturally think outside the box.
400 meters from here is a sailing club for plywood hard chine cabin trailer sailers they plane the whole compass they were hand made in the 1960s and 15 feet long fast light boats are cultural in New Zealand.
Agree that ETNZ lost the execution of the starts but they did generally win the side they want. Net result was being ahead at the first cross which is the aim of winning the start.
On the contrary I feel ETNZ started well or well enough to execute all its advantages. For Ineos Britannia it was vital that they started well as was shown by Luna Rossa verse Ineos Britannia.
Haven't even finished this video, but have to say, I have enjoyed watching and learning from you guys. And your insights/ views and interpretations of boats, sailing, results. cheers from NZ.
On the starts. There were IMO a number of 'drawn' starts. Take race 7 (or 8) when ETNZ went to 5-2. Ineos were clear they (marginally) won that start - the coach even said so during the race. However ETNZ were clear - in their on-board coms - they really wanted the right side of the course as that was where the first shift was going to come. Ineos were good off the line to the left of ETNZ, ETNZ tacked away to the right got that first shift & that was the race as ETNZ came back with starboard advantage. Arguably ETNZ *won* that start & would probably have felt pretty happy that Ineos thought they did too. There were a couple of starts like that. Overall I felt that the starts were perhaps more even than the video suggested. Fine margins and all.
Great chats guys! I appreciate all of your insights into the Cup, and glad we are able to keep getting some analysis and thoughts now that the Cup is over. Looking forward to your insights into the campaign from Ineos. I may have quite vocally disagreed with a couple things during the cup, such as the legitimacy of the port starboard penalty against Ineos (correct in my opinion), but this channel really is the best resource I've found for following the cup, especially the technical analysis of the engineering on these boats. If I come across any of you in Western Australia, I'll shout you a beer, or perhaps a nice red. Cheers lads.
Great use of ETNZ's lego version the 2021 winning boat, Te Rehutai. I picked one up after seeing you building it several videos ago. Hoping ETNZ commission Lego to also do one of Taihoro, then we could all start our own fleets of winning AC boats.
@@MozzySails Interesting. Might be an amalgam, It does refer to Te Rehutai in the beginning of the instruction book. Also the teal coloured Sticky up bit on the back (sorry I'm not a sailor) matches photo's of Te Rehutai as well designs on the back of the hull. One thing for sure, if there was a Lego series of AC winning boats going right back to America I'd get them all. Would also need a 100 Guineas Cup (and a very large room to display them all). Lastly, even though I am a Kiwi, part of me hopes one day we will get to see the Royal Yacht Squadron lift the America's cup and take it home. LFG AC 38!!!
@@Monty-in-gumboots Considering commercial timelines I expect it all had to get signed off before the new boat was christened. The idea of the NYYC model room replicated in lego is quite something.
Winning the start or winning the first cross? ETNZ appeared to be concentrating on the latter whereas Ineos concentrated on the former. I felt that ETNZ were generally thinking a move or two ahead of Ineos.
@@locominyana8916 Dean's sailing has always been good. He is perhaps the most unlucky ETNZ skipper having been let down by the team on two occasions. cheers
Great stuff guys - have been really enjoying cathing up on your takes on the Cup after every stage and race. Couple of things that I think were interesting. 1 - ETNZ both in this cup and the last 2 have looked to have set ups that are better in multiple ranges, especially at lower winds speeds. This seems to be a point whwere they want to make sure they aren't cauught out in light air. 2 - Had a smaller jib in most of the races - optimised for the first leg to make the firsrt cross? 3 = The bit on the ETNZ comms was really spot on and for my money there was a BIG change between race 6 and 7. In the first 4 especially NZ had that comms style that was so much a focus of the commentary in the last Cup. Very little talking, "3,2,1 board down" and Pete and Blair doing it themselves with not much discussion. 4 - Race 6, WAY more discussion from all 4, picking shifts, and Nathan leading a lot more. I've got to put it down to the major f@$k up in race 5 where Pete seemed to pick the wrong option while the others thought differently but didn't assert themselves. Really interesting. Anyway - cant wait for the INEOS breakdown. Thanks a lot!
I think for point 2, it's more that they design the boat to run a smaller jib. It's a draggier and less controllable sail, especially now with the twin skins, so being able to raise a smaller jib than your opponent for the same race has to be an advantage.
Interestingly, I have a copy of the November issue of the UK Mercedes-Benz Club magazine, "Gazette." There's an article in which Bradley Lord, Chief Communications Officer for Mercedes-AMG F1 says "This project, known internally as "AC 37", has been a focal point for more than 100 of our team over the last three years, and it has been amazing to see it come to life on the water in Barcelona." For comparison, ETNZ has a total staff of approximately 130 of which 40 are on the design team.
The designers all know how to sail. We have always used sailing experience as the primary input to optimise the boat. so unless AMG start build boats….then well big waste of money.
We have two guys here who really get ETNZ and the way they went about the cup....and Tom, who admits it all through gritted teeth. Better luck next time boys !
A Kiwi subscriber here. Thank you I have enjoyed your videos (for years!) I like the calm analytical, unbiased and educational nature. I agree with your comments on the TNZ crew work and you can hear in the onboard comms there is a noticable change in Race 7. Nathan appears to make a concerted effort to be more consultative , he directly asks the trimmers their opinions and even apologizes for "my tone in leg 1" .
You said something here that I theorized in a comment on your previous video - the differential main allows them to be more aggressive with mast rotation. I very strongly agree with that. I think that other teams couldn't rotate the mast to create an ideal shape for accelerating out of the tack because if they did the leeward skin would be left too slack and would "sag out" too far.
From a Kiwi perspective we are a sports mad country. All schools partake in the main sports. We are very competitive country always competing against each other and for schools which are close to the sea we compete in the P-class yachting races. As a family we would gather to watch the Whitbread round the world races, Americas cup etc. Sailing is in our blood. Rugby would be first but sailing a very close 2nd.
And it's not elitist here like it is in so many parts of the world, lots of people own boats. The sailing culture is kind of more down to earth too I reckon, not all Louis Vuitton and Champagne (more rum and coke because it doesn't matter if you get a bit of salt water in it!). I think this was reflected a bit when Pete said it was like a sou-wester off Takapuna Beach. Nothing is over-amplified, it's just sailing. But to do it well you need the best tech and know it to the point you can sail these things like a 49er in the harbour, then the crew can focus on the strategy and wind. ETNZ almost always had the shifts.
@@d.Cog420 Totally agree. Not elitist in the slightest. We had many a holiday or recreation out in the Hauraki gulf whether it be sailing, fishing, scuba diving or just plain boating. It's a way of life alright!
As a Kiwi, I can say that not all kiwis are passionate about sports, not like they are here in Australia. Rugby and Cricket dominant in NZ, but other sports not so much. And there are only a few sailing clubs around the country. I used to do Wednesday night racing, but even that was a bit of a thing amongst the old boys network. What ETNZ has done is fantastic, onwards and upwards, lets see more of it around the world.
Firstly congratulations to ETNZ and great challenge from INEOS. On the surface it's the holistic campaign, New Zealand had to impose a few of the restrictions (AC40, Hydrogen support boat etc..) as the campaign needed to raise funds for a descent defense. Looking from the outside in at pretty much all the races over the last few months, ETNZ were just a confident, well oiled package (design, management, support crew, on boat communication, reconnaissance of local wind, tide, topographical influence). As mentioned all challengers were made aware of constraints so a degree of transparency. I'm hoping the New Zealand government get behind ETNZ next campaign so it can be hosted in New Zealand. The next iteration I think the gap between first and last across all challengers and defense will be marginal as boat design and sailing are at the cutting edge so to speak. Even as a Kiwi I hope the event continues to inspire and create the best boats, crew and sailing from all syndicates / countries involved. Thank you to the Aussie we borrowed, it was hopefully enough to encourage an Aussie challenge and bring Spithill out of retirement. Keep up the great videos and breakdowns. As we say in New Zealand "Kia Kaha" - "Stay Strong", may INEOS find strength in competition, hope to see them in next challenge.
Good job and the glasses of G&T are genius. Other teams could have made a poor man's copy of the twin main sheet using a clever little gear system between main sheet and clew (much like what is in contra rotating propellors) but it would be very limited in practice as to how much the windward skin was pulled on without losing the shape of the leeward skin, and another job and a half to link it all to synchronise with rotation of the mast. And then - how that would work with the entirety of the other systems was not tested either. Sometimes I thought the baggy foot of the windward sail of Ineos in some sail configuration was some clever response to the ETNZ system!
He is hugely under-rated. I've read several books on the Whitbread and AC which, when read together, go a long way to explaining why TNZ are the most long lived and successful AC team ever. It's interesting to think about the damage Coutts and co. did to the team before Dalton rescued it from possible oblivion.
Great to follow you guys … You describe (as do others) a lot of hardware and software pro’s, but about Lifeware the sailors seem to me to be better and the onshore & offshore crews best in the business and to forget the culture/atmosphere which is the non tangible which can not not bought nor copied … please continue with the globally best AmCup analysis- Bryn (Norwegian wearing ‘red socks’)
Great explanation of the twin mainsheet sail Mozzy, that's why the solid wing with Ram in it like in SailGp you can really force the shape you want on your sail/wing regardless of where you are going and how fast, pretty dope tech and will probably come back to the cup down the line.
I strongly believe that non-specialist commentators should go. The stunning lack of insight and pure hype they offer is unwelcome. They do it in the Olympics commentary in various sports, for example, climbing and my god, it's awful.
Many Kiwis leaned to sail in the once ubiquitous P class. It's a boat you can buy for 2 - 300 dollars for the kids to play in, or up to $5000 for a top competitive one. You start at age 5 or 6 with one sail, a tiller, and that's about it. But as you learn you can keep adding complexity, Kevlar sails, carbon fibre rudders and daggerboards, Cunningham, ankle strap so you can lean out, tiller extension, etc. etc. They are a strict one class design generally sailed by boys and girls from 11 to 15. Because of its short length (2.13m) it is difficult to sail down wind in waves, giving the boat a tendency to nose-dive. So children develop advanced sailing skills at a young age. The main annual event is the Tanner cup, still going since it was introduced in 1945. This class is famous for being the sailing trainer vessel for many new entrants into the sport, and virtually every famous New Zealand yachtsman, including Dean Barker Pete Burling, and Russell Coutts, learnt to sail in one. It's said in NZ, if you can sail a P you can sail anything!
generally agreed with most of your thoughts, two areas that struck me were acceleration out or tacks and the ability to read the wind shifts. Thee latter seems to be trusting input from all four of the tactical group helms and trimmers
Thanks all you Mozzy guys for your insights from years ahead to all the way through till now, it was an interesting conversation from start to finish. As a young Kiwi sailor I grew up racing local lads who went on to be some of the most successful AC skippers ever. But have lived in UK for 25 years now. I thought Ineos had a lot of input into boat/rules design from the start.
I'm a Kiwi. Leg 1 race 1 answered all my questions Higher faster acceleration faster. Never once worried about starts as long as we could stick with them, we would eventually overtake
Great analysis. Couple of thoughts. I don't think ETNZ went into the regatta needing to win the starts. I think they were after "Parity" and the side of the course they wanted. We saw this when behind by a length off the line and less than a quarter of the way up had already put themselves in front. Having Nathen was absolutely necessary. I'm not convinced Ineos was actually that competitive. I think Prada was undone by an excessive wind & swells for an entire week. Didn't discuss the rudder? Also didn't see many pictures of it. I know it was super trick and they had two under wraps just for the cup. Only because my bro made them!!! 8weeks of solid machining titanium, said it was the most challenging job, angles and finish ever.
Excessive waves? I think more what happened is that ineos was the one team that decided to bias for exactly those conditions, which were a significant part of the expected early autumn in Barca. NZ knew they could expect it to go light again after the LV and developed accordingly knowing they didn’t have to make it through as variable conditions. I haven’t heard much talk about how much more speed NZ found after the second race day. The brits were tightening it up even when they weren’t winning, and then NZ came back and put a mile on them on raw pace.
@@weatheranddarkness post Cup, Dan Bernasconi said they designed for a wide range of conditions. But in saying that you are probably right in your INEOS bias comment.
@@Luka-kb5tk because the wind and the swell, and the chop were not directly interrelated conditions in Barca as much as elsewhere it was a difficult optimisation question. To win the whole challenger series, AAND beat the defender you had to be good in chop, smooth conditions, 1.8m swells, and the whole range of wind strengths. It's not something that can be perfect because many of those things are at odds with eachother in terms of how you design the boat/foils/sail controls. GB did well to have figured out how to make the boat work in the most difficult combination, but it meant they gave up a bit almost everywhere else. But because the conditions, system efficiency, and foil efficiency were all different things, the margins moved around between boats and teams sometimes over very small differences on course. There was a low wind day in the LV I think it was where you saw, similar angles from both boats, but huge gains and losses within a leg just due to the balance of wind strength and wave power and angles changing small amounts.
I think a major point of future discussion should be the question of what is lacking in the other racing teams such as Ineos, LRPP, Patriot which is resulting in them always following New Zealand when it comes to cutting edge technical innovation and sailing techniques. All 3 have in general major cutting edge technical infrastructure in all fields which are crucial to set a robust America's Cup campaign.
The defender always has the advantage. They know what the rules are first. They have also been doing this longer than the other teams. The challengers have to make a boat to win the LV first in maybe different conditions. Personally I think INEOS was a match for Etnz but the sailors were not. I have no doubt the Kiwis read the cse better.
@@dulls8475 In the modern era is it really the case that the defenders know the rules significantly before the challengers? I would assume that with the cup rules being a negotiation process, both the challenger and the defender would know the agreed rules at the same time, i.e. when they finish their negotiations?
@@dulls8475 I agree there is defender's advantage generally, but in this specific instance I think it's limited. The protocol and class rule have to be negotiated with the COR, so both parties have to read it during negotiations - hard to believe that INEOS would negotiate on a document they hadn't read? And for ETNZ it would be risky to do any intense boat development without an agreed protocol and class rule. My sense is that INEOS and ETNZ developed their boats on similar timeframes.
@@benjaminwilshere7405 Ineos is a boat behind i think. The rules in themselves benefit the defender. It is about the challenger trying to negotiate a better deal but it is done from a weaker position. I personally think Ineos was a match but the Kiwis out sailed us.
This is a perceptive analysis. Thanks for all the videos throughout the cycle - they’ve added a lot to the ‘AC Universe’. IB put together a very good performance too, so I hope you give them their dues in Part 2. RE comms: I guess if McKinsey start advising their corporate clients to call each other ‘Bro’ then we’ll know who to blame!
Howdy, Could you please do a segment about Rob, Tom, and yourself as to your professional background? Your technical knowledge is quite interesting. Also your sailing background. And then there’s the beer and wine! Terrific presentations, love the technical aspects. Request/ when showing a display and using the mouse pointer, two things: the arrow is too small and hard to see, perhaps make it a color, and move it more slowly as it looks m ore like a fly dashing about and I want to swat it :).
Another thing that I have known about with the independent sheeting of the mainsail, is that it gives the boat the ability to change the shape of the wing allowing it a better chance of lifting or driving it faster as the airflow over the wing changesSimilar to windsurfer sails, flatter for high winds, and more curve for lower winds. While it might appear similar to the others changing the distance and shape between the skins, made all the difference, I believe.
Dylan seems like a highly competitive, somewhat angry sailor to me. Bodes well for antagonism between the two camps during the cycle ahead. Britannia developed fast, but they'll have to do much better if he wants to properly compete and beat ETNZ.
16:30 "[N]atural Kiwi culture" is to be laconic, to under-communicate if anything, e.g. look at how we (don't) use our road vehicle indicators. ETNZ have probably made considerable efforts to ensure that their intra-team communication is such high quality.
Always enjoy your videos Mozzy! Thanks for posting. With regard to Ineos winning most of the starts: I distinctly recall many commentators claiming that if you win most of the starts you'll win most of the races. So either the winning of the starts is not as important as has been claimed OR Ineos didn't actually win most of the starts at all? Maybe ETNZ actually won most in that they positioned themselves in more favourably to win the first cross? Another point that interests me is that despite Ineos having the backing of all this expertise from Mecedes ETNZ were always one step ahead eg twin mainsail trimming and modular foils etc. Dylan reckons ETNZ will be running scared because of how quickly Ineos progressed but what he failed acknowledge was the fact that Ineos were ALWAYS PLAYING CATCH UP. In order for Ineos to beat ETNZ they have to get ahead in innovation rather than be playing catch up.
Good interview i think team nz are so confident with there boat speed wise that they are happy to give up the start sumtimes and dont put the boat in a risky spot and get penalised etc they know they can run them down really they were only boat in comp that could come from behind and win.
Some sort of high water mark for the use of lego in the analysis of sport. Time will tell if this video features career-defining use of lego for Tom. Fantastic explanation of the advantages that ETNZ are considered to have obtained via twin-main & AI optimisation of technique.ETNZ's advantage on the water was remarkable and gave them confidence which is no small factor, likely further boosting their advantage. The Mozzy Sails team might provide the biggest gain for least cost to INEOS (& other syndicates), which I hope something is done to make right.
I think the pre-start abilities of Burling are well understood by all kiwi's (it's not as though he hasn't done enough of them in the AC and F50) and they are a cultural feature of NZ. We do not rush into a fight. But when we do ..... TNZ's goal was to win the race and if you work it back from the finish line, on average the team that rounded the first mark won more than the team that won the start. So the goal became, get to that top mark first.
What no one seems to say is that winning a start is damn hard. There is a LOT going on at really high speed in big bus type boats within a VERY small time space constraint. One error and it's the back door. You know the limitations of your boat, crew etc and are making value judgements second by second. Could they they have done better? Probably, but hindsight has no cost and no merit on the day. Did it make a difference? Fortunately no. Id love to hear Nathan and Pete explaining the starts and decisions so we get to understand the enormity of the undertaking.
This is a super simplistic take, but it just seemed like Luna Rossa and Brittania were just not radical / aggressive enough. If you figure ETNZ is the reigning champ, they are almost definitely going to have a well-prepared crew, and they are likely going to have identified some areas to push to ruleset for that Cup. So you are going to have to find somewhere to really push the envelope to get that defining advantage over the defender. That's why I was hoping American Magic would come together and make a go of it.
Great work guys. Personally one thing I didn't like seeing in this cup was the close relationship between sailing teams and F1 teams. Being able to draw down on hundreds of designers, engineers and data analysts that are NOT on your pay roster I think is pretty underhanded. The proof is in Ineos' performance improvements, the Mercedes team helped make a huge improvements. While I may be biased being a kiwi (without an F1 team), I also think this will become a massive barrier to entry in future for potential new teams entering. The financial barrier was already high but now the technological barrier has become extreme. This will limit competition because financiers are not going to burn through bucket loads of cash trying to win something you have no chance in winning in the first place. There is an easy fix of course and that every person working on the team has to be on the pay roll and perhaps they should put an upper limit on how many designers, engineers and analysts you can actually have on each team. Just my 2 cents...
I think you're possibly right on the starts, but also due to the all around performance of the boat and crew it didn't matter. Something as simple as listening back to the comms on both boats, there were 4 opinions of equal value and consideration on Taihoro, Ruby on the other hand sounded very much like a captain and his subordinates. Ainslie is a very very good sailor, no doubt of that. Wonder though as he had all of his olympic success in single handers, how that translated to a crewed boat. Different team cultures across the two teams which makes sense. Will be interesting to see what role he takes for AC38.
I don’t think ETNZ had a financial advantage compared to other teams with Billionaire backers. Selling boats and hosting rights were things they had to do just to compete, it would have been a bigger advantage to have held the event at home in New Zealand.
@@stuartmaxwell3801 Dennis was just being a typical American, win in the Courtroom while cheating on the Water while blaming his Competitor …. Not a true Sportsman. That slick coating on his hull helped but I’m pretty sure he Paid Chris Dicknose to throw the race by hitting the last buoy before the homeward reach …
I also think that the ETNZ weather team was a crucial factor. It seemed that they got the side of the course that they wanted regardless of how they did in the start.
Dear Mozzie (and friends), thanks for the great coverage over the whole event. Still confused why you dont win with better VMG but you might have covered that. See you in 4 years.
When New Zealand won the cup for the first time, way back in the days of monohulls and Sir Peter Blake, we won it despite the 'unfairness' set up against challengers. So did Australia, when they invented the winged keel and took the cup off the Americans for the first time. So 'unfairness' or not, what wins is the best-managed team and the fastest boat sailed by the best sailors
When NZ lost the Cup in the early 2000s, the syndicate was at a cross roads. Grant Dalton came in to lead this group and made some very tough decisions on team members and sponsorship, finance was a problem for future Cups. These decisions were not always popular with the public. Some of the management team have worked together for many years Kevin Shoebridge for example. Some of the earlier skippers eg; Chris Dickinson has strong Match Racing circuit experience, others Olympic sailors or Blue Water series. This collective knowledge has helped the various formations of NZ teams to place high in the LV Challenge Cup or win the America's Cup.
Love listening to you guys...Im a Kiwi and am always fascinated by the Americas Cup each cycle. I must say I didnt like the way Dylan Fletcher came off in a few interviews.... seemed a little petulant. Maybe no one else saw this..thats fine. He did mention he beat Pistol Pete at the Olympics however I wonder how much time Pete and Blair had in that boat with their sail GP/Americas Cup commitments compared to Dylan...food for thought Dylan. To grab a 2nd with not a lot of time in that boat was pretty incredible. The ole salty dog Ainsle (legend) handled the loss much better.
Nice discussion. Kiwi here and I agree with pre-start, but also think there were at time alternative strategies going on there. You could tell by the chat on the boat when they were comfortable vs not. Re foils. Forward raked aero-foils have better stall control. They dont just “stall” fail and they have a more progressive and controllable stall profile. The outside of the foil can still be generating lift and ailerons still in control, whilst the centre is stalling. Given the boats are “constantly” at the limit of effective lift, this may create a more manageable, faster save when hitting the limit. It also moves the centre of lift forward. There is a thing on forward raked wings in gliding. Although, to be fair, I am no expert here, I just googled the crap out of it when they first appeared being so different.
The twin mainsheet control seems incredibly obvious and a natural progression from AC36. When you first revealed this when ETNZ launched their new boat I knew it was going to play a part in any speed advantage ETNZ had. With hindsight when you consider all the adjustments that go into traditional sail control and trimming to squeeze incremental speed gains it’s obvious that the twin skin control would have been an advantage. When you revealed this after the launch I originally thought one of the benefits to this additional control would have been creating a more powerful main to assist getting up on the foil in the event of falling off the foils on light tricky wind days. Now that you have shown the link controls, mast rotation etc… compared to GB primarily using their traveler it makes total sense. ETNZ will likely have something up their sleeve for next time, however the challengers are going to be a lot smarter looking into all the changes that have been written into the rules post AC36 & 37. I think it’s going to be a lot more challenging for ETNZ to come up with significant differences to the other challengers such as the twin main controls, link controls & modular foils for AC38. It’s going to be a lot closer next time which I suspect will mean greater need for umpire decisions. I hope we see the modular foil tech available for us recreational foilers one day 😄. Thanks for the Videos Mozzy. For all us sailors it’s made the AC so much more interesting. As a kiwi who loves foiling I am still a little unsure about this class. There were some great races but a lot of it was predictable. Your videos added so much more to the event. Thanks
At the next cup, the challengers will ALL have the double sheeting technology- but ETNZ will have advanced again and will almost certainly have new advancements.
Agreed! The other teams may even emulate the NZ foil design, although the forward projecting mass on the foil arms should be eliminated across the board in favor of the INEOS implementation. Both ETNZ and LR had this extra mass forward of the foil arms and it didn't seem to fare well in an active sea state.
@@joschmoyo4532 And you still have ZERO credibility in the discussion - contrived nonsense plucked out of your ass doesn't constitute a discussion point.
I really like your technical analysis but never forget finally at this leve it comes down to sailors , so this is for Sir Ben for the next challenge : Float like a butterfly sting like a bee - your hands can’t hit what your eyes can’t see.” (slightly changed famous quote of Ali)
Great summary Mozzy I would like to emphasise the Design team are the most innovative in the AC they are always ahead of the pack Nathan complemented Burling with his outstanding communication skills Team NZ were more of a “team” than the other camps Peter and Blair have such a long sailing together history, time together on the water makes a winning team
I wish to clarify a bit the matter of the two independently moves skins. Having two independent skins allow to modify the shape of the wing. this changes hugely the performance as it gives the opportunity to modify the profile in an important manner: you change the wing from a low speed high lift performance (like a VSTOL Plane) to a high speed low drag one. and this could be changed in both the leading and trailing edges. this to say that, while INEOS team have to optimize its performance on a single wing profile, Etnz have to do the same, multiplied by 2 (lead and trail in both tack and straight). so on one hand the management is by far more complex, on the other hand it gives you a totally different potential. when you turn (tack) and in that moment you have an incredible acceleration capability which on high speed will not hinder you on absolute performances, everything changes. here the two main rules on this matter: C(L)=L/0,5*§*V(square)*S where C(L) is the lift coefficient, §=air density, V=flight speed, S=wing(sail) surface and L=Lift F=L+D where F=force and D is the aeraulic resistance. In this model the two sides of the wing (thus the sail sheets) are independently evaluated, thus you could model different shapes and thus a very output power
Kiwi here, I would hold my breath for the 2 minutes to the start line. It seems most of the races were won or lost there. So as long as we were there or there about I could remain confident, until INEOS won two in a row. San Fran memories 😟 Love the content.
Well done, fellas. Yes gb will be back stronger and faster for sure. As will magic and lr. As for the French? They'll be distracted. 😊 Can't believe it took 3 days for yt to let me know about this episode.
Great video, I remember from the first cup with cyclors that ETNZ had the cyclors "chasing the dot" ie moving the controls to positions indicated by software. This must be happening this time around, dots to chase for wind speed, dots to chase for wind angle and what are the circular things behind the helms? More dots to chase perhaps?
Super Great video... Could you do a video on each of the AC75 teams tactics of seeing the wind. With the boys.. To what extent do they manage to understand, take advantage of that.. How much are they reading.. Then of course the buoy changes that wipe out the knowledge
Burling took tons of starts off Spitthill Bermuda. Maybe GBR got the better of NZ in the Barcelona starts, or maybe NZ put more emphasis course management as a key starting strategy.
Watching the mast cameras makes the advantage quite obvious. The trailing edge of ETNZs main sail was rock solid. Suggesting much steadier flow along both surfaces of the entire main sail. The trailing edge of INEOS main sail was often flapping, which means it wasn't properly loaded, reducing total power. Credit ETNZ with a superior design. But they will lose that advantage in the next cup. The change in angle of attack at the top of the mainsail suddenly reminded me of the twist in turbine blades. Wind speed at the top of the mast should be higher, so a shorter chord, thinner camber, and what looks like a greater angle of attack is found at the tips in nearly all last stage steam turbine blades. While they are working with flow speeds at the tips just below Mach 1, the increased airfoil twist still makes sense when working with air at speeds that do not have any compression effects. Well done ETNZ. I assume the other teams are taking notes, but the flapping trailing edge is a dead giveaway that there were flow problems.
Hi guys, Another excellent debrief. Thoughts on EMTNZ bulb to foil transitions. They worked out that the balance between induced drag from a soft transition from bulb to wing was greater than the risk of ventilation/cavitation was worth the right call. Therefore ENTNZ had more lift plan area? Do we think that the international interest both in terms of attendance by enthusiasts attending the event in Barcelona and watching online has reached the point that the sport has now reached critical mass and could be self sustaining in terms of TV rights etc such that the cup cycle is reduced to say 1.5 years? Finally, gossip on the next challenge. INEO Britannia in, but has the honeymoon with Mercedes AMF F1 drawing to a close? Keep it going lads!!! Cheers, Tim PS Rob.. was that water or vodka you were sipping? ;-)
All times also pre start Andy Malone ,Blaire Tuke was always involved and all taken comms into. .. Only once was not taken seriously enough when Andy was saying need more speed and fallen from foils at prestart. Also Sails on ineos was looking mutch flattering and not smoothly controlled like on Taihoro.
If you don't need to win the start it's because you have the faster boat, and it only has to be a tad faster. After that it's about strategy and picking the shifts. They pretty much picked all the shifts. It would be good to do a deep dive on forecasting and what's involved with that. What does 'Clouds' know the others don't?
I honestly thought that the 37th america's cup was going to be closer than the 36th America's cup .. with New Zealand still winning but it was more decisive at 7-2 and it probably should have been 7-1
I guess the follow up question with the twin main sheet is: Why didn't other teams copy? The answer is that this system includes a below deck boom which acts a structural member, essentially a 'stringer' which rotates with the loads. This structural element is built in to the DNA of the yacht and is almost impossible to copy once the hull is made.
I can't thank you enough for me now being an armchair expert 🙏🔑🥝
that. And why Mozzy made a long video explaining why this was a bad idea hahaha
But with all the technical expertise available to them, why didn't other teams work out for themselves that separate control of the sail skins would lead to a better performing wing ?
@@antoinebachmann6253 He never said it was a bad idea, you just made that up.
The sail design will catch on. A couple of cups ago team nz were the only team with bikes then everyone had them😂
💯 agree team nz were soft at starting it was frustrating. They just relied on rolling them upwind
Mate, super grateful from New Zealand for arming me, a non-sailor, with the vital info that I can use at the family Xmas barbeque with my know-it-all sailing brothers and nephews!
Awesome video guys.
Question
Is there something tnz could take off the brits boat to make it even stronger?
Good luck!
The Seagar name has many good sailors - including a few-time national champion. The Mason name too.
Hahahaha I know what you're saying bro.
😂👍🏼
Great video, with regard to Burlings starts, I think you are right, he doesn't try to win starts because that's risky, an even start is enough for him to win the race. However in Bermuda we did see him contest the starts with Spithill, I suppose he thought he had to, and beat him thoroughly. So Burling is not weak with starts, but he would rather avoid that win/lose equation. In this cup the commentators suggested he was losing starts, as he took the favoured side again and again. I think people sleep on Burlings starts a bit, this is not his weakness, it's just not his primary tool.
I'm not sure, I thought ETNZ were pretty aggressive in the starts. They tried to block INEOS's circle at least twice, and there was also that time they chased INEOS above the start line. That's aggression on 3/4 of their starboard entries. If you just want a clean start you do what Luna Rossa did
This. There's a lot of focus on INEOS typically having better speed across the line, and winning the "advantageous" position, ignoring that that advantage had been completely undone at the first crossing. ETNZ knew that they had the tacking advantage and could afford to sacrifice a manoeuvre in order to get the better wind, and in most of the races that theory bore out.
Burling has no weaknesses.
I think you're perspective is spot on.
@greybuckleton You are SPOT ON! I saw this after my comment on Pete's starts. He is one of the best, and sometimes losing the start to bail right is THE winning move (at least twice this cup and Final of the last cup!).
Thanks for your vids. Transformed my enjoyment of this comp. You’re commitment to telling us your best estimates of what was known at any one time was courageous with so many followers and reflected in your regular review on occasion of your own earlier thoughts as the comp progressed 🎉
Given an equal boat Peter Burling and Nathan Outteridge had to be considered favourites. They are just the two best sailors in the world. As it turned out they had a more than equal boat. Fantastic team effort and exceptional talent at the sharp end.
Thanks for your comment.
Cheers from Ak.
I think Ben's comment at the end summed it up well. This is the best team in the modern history of the AC, maybe of all time. The combination of organization, talent and yacht design may never be equaled again if there are significant changes in the future. NZ better keep the bar up high because the other teams will be gunning for them more than ever...
@jamesaron1967 business as usual for the kiwis then?
@@wardrobeuntermensch223 Yes, indeed.
Thank you Mozzy for the fabulous insights you’ve given us for months now about this AC37. I’m a New Zealand sailor and ETNZ fan of 40 years and never before have I come across such knowledgeable commentary on the “why and how’s” of the yachts and the sailing. All three of you have provided insights and explanations in a way that a non-engineer can understand. I’ve liked forward to your videos dropping and with this one “Why ETNZ won” has given me even more regard for the strength of our ERNZ team than I had before.
I’ll follow your future videos with interest.
(Maybe ETNZ needs to buy your silence for
our next campaign!)
Ditto
You are the best technical sailing channel on the planet. Well done
ETNZ I am sure, did not mind losing some starts so they could be left alone to take the side with the good wind.
ETNZ always seemed to know exactly how the wind was mapped and that can be heard in the comms.
Knowing the wind and being able to roll tack already made them almost unbeatable. They minimised human fiddling about and nailed the wind mapping almost perfectly by some means or other. With the roll tacking they could lose the start and still cross ahead on the next cross.
I fully understand the ingenuity of ETNZ. Exactly what I would have done and been laughed at probably in the UK. Out of the box Blue Sky thinking. And next time expect more! They only came unstuck with big waves which will no doubt be fixed next time.
INEOS need to match their innovation and more!
You struck good point here. Kiwi ingenuity is not easy to copy, it is cultural.
@@vjekoorlandini6744 They got that from the British before 1950 who since WW2 have gone on a philosophy of: only University Degrees count in their elitist world. Very snobbish because many amateurs and company workers have to be very innovative but may not have had time or inclination to study for a University Degree.
I don’t think INEOS will be able to beat them unless they completely change who they are advised by. It’s all about drawing up an impossible wish list then making the impossible happen!
You need proven blue sky thinkers who have deep technical understanding of sailing, engineering and many other technical and scientific fields who naturally think outside the box.
400 meters from here is a sailing club for plywood hard chine cabin trailer sailers they plane the whole compass they were hand made in the 1960s and 15 feet long fast light boats are cultural in New Zealand.
Agree that ETNZ lost the execution of the starts but they did generally win the side they want. Net result was being ahead at the first cross which is the aim of winning the start.
On the contrary I feel ETNZ started well or well enough to execute all its advantages. For Ineos Britannia it was vital that they started well as was shown by Luna Rossa verse Ineos Britannia.
Just want to say thanks guys again for making the cycle, the challenger series and the Match so enjoyable. ❤
Haven't even finished this video, but have to say, I have enjoyed watching and learning from you guys. And your insights/ views and interpretations of boats, sailing, results. cheers from NZ.
On the starts. There were IMO a number of 'drawn' starts. Take race 7 (or 8) when ETNZ went to 5-2. Ineos were clear they (marginally) won that start - the coach even said so during the race. However ETNZ were clear - in their on-board coms - they really wanted the right side of the course as that was where the first shift was going to come. Ineos were good off the line to the left of ETNZ, ETNZ tacked away to the right got that first shift & that was the race as ETNZ came back with starboard advantage. Arguably ETNZ *won* that start & would probably have felt pretty happy that Ineos thought they did too.
There were a couple of starts like that. Overall I felt that the starts were perhaps more even than the video suggested. Fine margins and all.
Great chats guys! I appreciate all of your insights into the Cup, and glad we are able to keep getting some analysis and thoughts now that the Cup is over. Looking forward to your insights into the campaign from Ineos. I may have quite vocally disagreed with a couple things during the cup, such as the legitimacy of the port starboard penalty against Ineos (correct in my opinion), but this channel really is the best resource I've found for following the cup, especially the technical analysis of the engineering on these boats. If I come across any of you in Western Australia, I'll shout you a beer, or perhaps a nice red. Cheers lads.
Great use of ETNZ's lego version the 2021 winning boat, Te Rehutai. I picked one up after seeing you building it several videos ago. Hoping ETNZ commission Lego to also do one of Taihoro, then we could all start our own fleets of winning AC boats.
I think it is taihoro. It certainly had the tapered transom like Taihoro and the jib and mainsail booms below deck which te rehutai didn't have
@@MozzySails Interesting. Might be an amalgam, It does refer to Te Rehutai in the beginning of the instruction book. Also the teal coloured Sticky up bit on the back (sorry I'm not a sailor) matches photo's of Te Rehutai as well designs on the back of the hull.
One thing for sure, if there was a Lego series of AC winning boats going right back to America I'd get them all. Would also need a 100 Guineas Cup (and a very large room to display them all).
Lastly, even though I am a Kiwi, part of me hopes one day we will get to see the Royal Yacht Squadron lift the America's cup and take it home. LFG AC 38!!!
@@Monty-in-gumboots Considering commercial timelines I expect it all had to get signed off before the new boat was christened.
The idea of the NYYC model room replicated in lego is quite something.
Winning the start or winning the first cross? ETNZ appeared to be concentrating on the latter whereas Ineos concentrated on the former. I felt that ETNZ were generally thinking a move or two ahead of Ineos.
They are a move or two ahead of everyone. That's why they have five cup wins.
@@kelbatt7729Would've been 6 if it wasn't for Dean Barker to lose 9-8, having lead 8-1.
@@locominyana8916
Dean's sailing has always been good. He is perhaps the most unlucky ETNZ skipper having been let down by the team on two occasions. cheers
@@locominyana8916gotta be in it to win it
The thinking and priorities on ETNZ were always one mile ahead of the boat.
Thanks Mozzy and team for adding to my cup experience
Wouldn't be the same without them!
Great stuff guys - have been really enjoying cathing up on your takes on the Cup after every stage and race. Couple of things that I think were interesting.
1 - ETNZ both in this cup and the last 2 have looked to have set ups that are better in multiple ranges, especially at lower winds speeds. This seems to be a point whwere they want to make sure they aren't cauught out in light air.
2 - Had a smaller jib in most of the races - optimised for the first leg to make the firsrt cross?
3 = The bit on the ETNZ comms was really spot on and for my money there was a BIG change between race 6 and 7. In the first 4 especially NZ had that comms style that was so much a focus of the commentary in the last Cup. Very little talking, "3,2,1 board down" and Pete and Blair doing it themselves with not much discussion.
4 - Race 6, WAY more discussion from all 4, picking shifts, and Nathan leading a lot more. I've got to put it down to the major f@$k up in race 5 where Pete seemed to pick the wrong option while the others thought differently but didn't assert themselves. Really interesting.
Anyway - cant wait for the INEOS breakdown. Thanks a lot!
I think for point 2, it's more that they design the boat to run a smaller jib. It's a draggier and less controllable sail, especially now with the twin skins, so being able to raise a smaller jib than your opponent for the same race has to be an advantage.
Interestingly, I have a copy of the November issue of the UK Mercedes-Benz Club magazine, "Gazette." There's an article in which Bradley Lord, Chief Communications Officer for Mercedes-AMG F1 says "This project, known internally as "AC 37", has been a focal point for more than 100 of our team over the last three years, and it has been amazing to see it come to life on the water in Barcelona."
For comparison, ETNZ has a total staff of approximately 130 of which 40 are on the design team.
Yep...little ole NZ... No aerospace/F1 behemeths on the payroll and we won. This team are exceptional!!
Yep, one boat built by a car company, and the other built by passionate sailors and boat builders.
@@kiwibanterfan2215Just wait till Rocketlabs jumps on board, they'll all be shitting themselves then. 😅
The designers all know how to sail. We have always used sailing experience as the primary input to optimise the boat. so unless AMG start build boats….then well big waste of money.
Love your channel! See you next time! Where ever that may be?
We have two guys here who really get ETNZ and the way they went about the cup....and Tom, who admits it all through gritted teeth. Better luck next time boys !
A Kiwi subscriber here. Thank you I have enjoyed your videos (for years!) I like the calm analytical, unbiased and educational nature.
I agree with your comments on the TNZ crew work and you can hear in the onboard comms there is a noticable change in Race 7. Nathan appears to make a concerted effort to be more consultative , he directly asks the trimmers their opinions and even apologizes for "my tone in leg 1" .
The gin is very classy and helps to fuel the analysis. Well done lads😊
Rob necked it
I thought it was water😂
Thank you for all your hard work
You said something here that I theorized in a comment on your previous video - the differential main allows them to be more aggressive with mast rotation. I very strongly agree with that. I think that other teams couldn't rotate the mast to create an ideal shape for accelerating out of the tack because if they did the leeward skin would be left too slack and would "sag out" too far.
From a Kiwi perspective we are a sports mad country. All schools partake in the main sports. We are very competitive country always competing against each other and for schools which are close to the sea we compete in the P-class yachting races. As a family we would gather to watch the Whitbread round the world races, Americas cup etc. Sailing is in our blood. Rugby would be first but sailing a very close 2nd.
And it's not elitist here like it is in so many parts of the world, lots of people own boats. The sailing culture is kind of more down to earth too I reckon, not all Louis Vuitton and Champagne (more rum and coke because it doesn't matter if you get a bit of salt water in it!). I think this was reflected a bit when Pete said it was like a sou-wester off Takapuna Beach. Nothing is over-amplified, it's just sailing. But to do it well you need the best tech and know it to the point you can sail these things like a 49er in the harbour, then the crew can focus on the strategy and wind. ETNZ almost always had the shifts.
@@d.Cog420 Totally agree. Not elitist in the slightest. We had many a holiday or recreation out in the Hauraki gulf whether it be sailing, fishing, scuba diving or just plain boating. It's a way of life alright!
Rugby, sailing and beer.........................
I played 1stxv Tauranga Boy's. My Pakeha bro's were sailors. This was mid 70's.
As a Kiwi, I can say that not all kiwis are passionate about sports, not like they are here in Australia. Rugby and Cricket dominant in NZ, but other sports not so much. And there are only a few sailing clubs around the country. I used to do Wednesday night racing, but even that was a bit of a thing amongst the old boys network. What ETNZ has done is fantastic, onwards and upwards, lets see more of it around the world.
Firstly congratulations to ETNZ and great challenge from INEOS. On the surface it's the holistic campaign, New Zealand had to impose a few of the restrictions (AC40, Hydrogen support boat etc..) as the campaign needed to raise funds for a descent defense. Looking from the outside in at pretty much all the races over the last few months, ETNZ were just a confident, well oiled package (design, management, support crew, on boat communication, reconnaissance of local wind, tide, topographical influence). As mentioned all challengers were made aware of constraints so a degree of transparency. I'm hoping the New Zealand government get behind ETNZ next campaign so it can be hosted in New Zealand. The next iteration I think the gap between first and last across all challengers and defense will be marginal as boat design and sailing are at the cutting edge so to speak. Even as a Kiwi I hope the event continues to inspire and create the best boats, crew and sailing from all syndicates / countries involved.
Thank you to the Aussie we borrowed, it was hopefully enough to encourage an Aussie challenge and bring Spithill out of retirement.
Keep up the great videos and breakdowns.
As we say in New Zealand "Kia Kaha" - "Stay Strong", may INEOS find strength in competition, hope to see them in next challenge.
Etnz are a boat generation ahead of the comp. Which is similar to 95 and 2000. And we have seen this again in the last 2 cup cycles.
Good job and the glasses of G&T are genius. Other teams could have made a poor man's copy of the twin main sheet using a clever little gear system between main sheet and clew (much like what is in contra rotating propellors) but it would be very limited in practice as to how much the windward skin was pulled on without losing the shape of the leeward skin, and another job and a half to link it all to synchronise with rotation of the mast. And then - how that would work with the entirety of the other systems was not tested either. Sometimes I thought the baggy foot of the windward sail of Ineos in some sail configuration was some clever response to the ETNZ system!
It's so true.. Grant Daltons vision and tenacity is extraordinary.
I am a kiwi..
It frustrates me to know, the majority of New Zealanders have no idea what Emirates Team New Zealand have achieved.
He is hugely under-rated. I've read several books on the Whitbread and AC which, when read together, go a long way to explaining why TNZ are the most long lived and successful AC team ever. It's interesting to think about the damage Coutts and co. did to the team before Dalton rescued it from possible oblivion.
Indeed
Great to follow you guys … You describe (as do others) a lot of hardware and software pro’s, but about Lifeware the sailors seem to me to be better and the onshore & offshore crews best in the business and to forget the culture/atmosphere which is the non tangible which can not not bought nor copied … please continue with the globally best AmCup analysis- Bryn (Norwegian wearing ‘red socks’)
Great explanation of the twin mainsheet sail Mozzy, that's why the solid wing with Ram in it like in SailGp you can really force the shape you want on your sail/wing regardless of where you are going and how fast, pretty dope tech and will probably come back to the cup down the line.
Great work chaps. If only McIvor had a fraction of your knowledge !
I strongly believe that non-specialist commentators should go. The stunning lack of insight and pure hype they offer is unwelcome. They do it in the Olympics commentary in various sports, for example, climbing and my god, it's awful.
Outstanding video, you are the best source for understanding the technology and its implications.
Many Kiwis leaned to sail in the once ubiquitous P class. It's a boat you can buy for 2 - 300 dollars for the kids to play in, or up to $5000 for a top competitive one. You start at age 5 or 6 with one sail, a tiller, and that's about it. But as you learn you can keep adding complexity, Kevlar sails, carbon fibre rudders and daggerboards, Cunningham, ankle strap so you can lean out, tiller extension, etc. etc. They are a strict one class design generally sailed by boys and girls from 11 to 15. Because of its short length (2.13m) it is difficult to sail down wind in waves, giving the boat a tendency to nose-dive. So children develop advanced sailing skills at a young age. The main annual event is the Tanner cup, still going since it was introduced in 1945.
This class is famous for being the sailing trainer vessel for many new entrants into the sport, and virtually every famous New Zealand yachtsman, including Dean Barker Pete Burling, and Russell Coutts, learnt to sail in one. It's said in NZ, if you can sail a P you can sail anything!
generally agreed with most of your thoughts, two areas that struck me were acceleration out or tacks and the ability to read the wind shifts.
Thee latter seems to be trusting input from all four of the tactical group helms and trimmers
Thanks all you Mozzy guys for your insights from years ahead to all the way through till now, it was an interesting conversation from start to finish. As a young Kiwi sailor I grew up racing local lads who went on to be some of the most successful AC skippers ever. But have lived in UK for 25 years now. I thought Ineos had a lot of input into boat/rules design from the start.
I'm a Kiwi.
Leg 1 race 1 answered all my questions
Higher faster acceleration faster.
Never once worried about starts as long as we could stick with them, we would eventually overtake
Great analysis. Couple of thoughts. I don't think ETNZ went into the regatta needing to win the starts. I think they were after "Parity" and the side of the course they wanted. We saw this when behind by a length off the line and less than a quarter of the way up had already put themselves in front. Having Nathen was absolutely necessary. I'm not convinced Ineos was actually that competitive. I think Prada was undone by an excessive wind & swells for an entire week. Didn't discuss the rudder? Also didn't see many pictures of it. I know it was super trick and they had two under wraps just for the cup. Only because my bro made them!!! 8weeks of solid machining titanium, said it was the most challenging job, angles and finish ever.
Excessive waves? I think more what happened is that ineos was the one team that decided to bias for exactly those conditions, which were a significant part of the expected early autumn in Barca. NZ knew they could expect it to go light again after the LV and developed accordingly knowing they didn’t have to make it through as variable conditions.
I haven’t heard much talk about how much more speed NZ found after the second race day. The brits were tightening it up even when they weren’t winning, and then NZ came back and put a mile on them on raw pace.
@@weatheranddarkness post Cup, Dan Bernasconi said they designed for a wide range of conditions. But in saying that you are probably right in your INEOS bias comment.
@@Luka-kb5tk because the wind and the swell, and the chop were not directly interrelated conditions in Barca as much as elsewhere it was a difficult optimisation question. To win the whole challenger series, AAND beat the defender you had to be good in chop, smooth conditions, 1.8m swells, and the whole range of wind strengths. It's not something that can be perfect because many of those things are at odds with eachother in terms of how you design the boat/foils/sail controls. GB did well to have figured out how to make the boat work in the most difficult combination, but it meant they gave up a bit almost everywhere else. But because the conditions, system efficiency, and foil efficiency were all different things, the margins moved around between boats and teams sometimes over very small differences on course. There was a low wind day in the LV I think it was where you saw, similar angles from both boats, but huge gains and losses within a leg just due to the balance of wind strength and wave power and angles changing small amounts.
Great review men , really interesting best wishes John (NZ)
Win the start to go to the wrong side seemed to be the plan of Ineos.
Choosing the correct side was more important than 'winning ' the start.
@@EndoftheRiver Fact.
Personally, I don't call it "winning the start" if you cross the line first but are headed to the wrong side.
I agree. On at least 2 starts ETNZ wanted the right and positioned for a tack soon after the start
@@EndoftheRiver So what i said....
I think a major point of future discussion should be the question of what is lacking in the other racing teams such as Ineos, LRPP, Patriot which is resulting in them always following New Zealand when it comes to cutting edge technical innovation and sailing techniques. All 3 have in general major cutting edge technical infrastructure in all fields which are crucial to set a robust America's Cup campaign.
The defender always has the advantage. They know what the rules are first. They have also been doing this longer than the other teams. The challengers have to make a boat to win the LV first in maybe different conditions. Personally I think INEOS was a match for Etnz but the sailors were not. I have no doubt the Kiwis read the cse better.
@@dulls8475 In the modern era is it really the case that the defenders know the rules significantly before the challengers? I would assume that with the cup rules being a negotiation process, both the challenger and the defender would know the agreed rules at the same time, i.e. when they finish their negotiations?
@@benjaminwilshere7405 So the negotiations are equal. I dont think so. The holder has a lot of power going in. It is in the rules.
@@dulls8475 I agree there is defender's advantage generally, but in this specific instance I think it's limited. The protocol and class rule have to be negotiated with the COR, so both parties have to read it during negotiations - hard to believe that INEOS would negotiate on a document they hadn't read? And for ETNZ it would be risky to do any intense boat development without an agreed protocol and class rule. My sense is that INEOS and ETNZ developed their boats on similar timeframes.
@@benjaminwilshere7405 Ineos is a boat behind i think. The rules in themselves benefit the defender. It is about the challenger trying to negotiate a better deal but it is done from a weaker position. I personally think Ineos was a match but the Kiwis out sailed us.
This is a perceptive analysis. Thanks for all the videos throughout the cycle - they’ve added a lot to the ‘AC Universe’. IB put together a very good performance too, so I hope you give them their dues in Part 2.
RE comms: I guess if McKinsey start advising their corporate clients to call each other ‘Bro’ then we’ll know who to blame!
I've been waiting for you to put out this video. Didn't disappoint.
Howdy,
Could you please do a segment about Rob, Tom, and yourself as to your professional background? Your technical knowledge is quite interesting. Also your sailing background. And then there’s the beer and wine!
Terrific presentations, love the technical aspects.
Request/ when showing a display and using the mouse pointer, two things: the arrow is too small and hard to see, perhaps make it a color, and move it more slowly as it looks
m ore like a fly dashing about and I want to swat it :).
The separate control of the twin mainsail is a game changer imo. The other boats without this were handicapped....
Another solid cup with the boys - appreciate your content and analysis as always.
Onto the next one 🤜🤛
Another thing that I have known about with the independent sheeting of the mainsail, is that it gives the boat the ability to change the shape of the wing allowing it a better chance of lifting or driving it faster as the airflow over the wing changesSimilar to windsurfer sails, flatter for high winds, and more curve for lower winds. While it might appear similar to the others changing the distance and shape between the skins, made all the difference, I believe.
Dylan seems like a highly competitive, somewhat angry sailor to me. Bodes well for antagonism between the two camps during the cycle ahead. Britannia developed fast, but they'll have to do much better if he wants to properly compete and beat ETNZ.
His attitude didnt help his team, at all, but I am sure that it made team NZ more determined 😉
Another great analysis, guys.
16:30 "[N]atural Kiwi culture" is to be laconic, to under-communicate if anything, e.g. look at how we (don't) use our road vehicle indicators. ETNZ have probably made considerable efforts to ensure that their intra-team communication is such high quality.
Indicator use is optional in NZ. Often only applied when the vehicle stops, then only used to tell the car where to turn.😅
Thanks for your commentary on the cup boys, it's been mega.
fantastic comments,, just so well done ,,great watching
Always enjoy your videos Mozzy! Thanks for posting. With regard to Ineos winning most of the starts: I distinctly recall many commentators claiming that if you win most of the starts you'll win most of the races. So either the winning of the starts is not as important as has been claimed OR Ineos didn't actually win most of the starts at all? Maybe ETNZ actually won most in that they positioned themselves in more favourably to win the first cross? Another point that interests me is that despite Ineos having the backing of all this expertise from Mecedes ETNZ were always one step ahead eg twin mainsail trimming and modular foils etc. Dylan reckons ETNZ will be running scared because of how quickly Ineos progressed but what he failed acknowledge was the fact that Ineos were ALWAYS PLAYING CATCH UP. In order for Ineos to beat ETNZ they have to get ahead in innovation rather than be playing catch up.
Thanks guys. Great work great knowledge!
Thank you Mozz and the boys - you made a great AC even better. Have you thought about doing some commentary on the Vendee Globe. Please do.
That would be epic!
Great Gin powered video 👍
Awesome video lads. Good breakdown and analysis
Good interview i think team nz are so confident with there boat speed wise that they are happy to give up the start sumtimes and dont put the boat in a risky spot and get penalised etc they know they can run them down really they were only boat in comp that could come from behind and win.
great video boys.
thankyou...!
Sir Dalton I hope. Nice work gentleman, thank you very much.
It would be Sir Grant, or Sir Grant Dalton. Never Sir Dalton. Works the same with women, e.g. Dame Judi Dench, or Dame Judi. Never Dame Dench.
Some sort of high water mark for the use of lego in the analysis of sport. Time will tell if this video features career-defining use of lego for Tom. Fantastic explanation of the advantages that ETNZ are considered to have obtained via twin-main & AI optimisation of technique.ETNZ's advantage on the water was remarkable and gave them confidence which is no small factor, likely further boosting their advantage. The Mozzy Sails team might provide the biggest gain for least cost to INEOS (& other syndicates), which I hope something is done to make right.
Best Lego commercial ever, I m going to buy one XD
Fuck me, I want one too.
Saw it on last video and ordered it last week. Finished it last night with all 950+ pieces. What an awesome toy! Have fun!
Let's buy a fleet to kick off one design events!
@@StCyp I'm going to be ordering one myself soon. It's definitely a must-have *especially* for NZ fans!
@@StCyp I bought it at a local Lego store and didn't need to order it. How long did it take you to complete yours?
That's a nice look at the Christmas present I bought myself!
Hope you enjoy it!
I finished building last night and it is awesome. Helps a lot to visualize the dynamics of the boat. Enjoy it!
@@MozzySails I'm looking forward to it!
I think the pre-start abilities of Burling are well understood by all kiwi's (it's not as though he hasn't done enough of them in the AC and F50) and they are a cultural feature of NZ. We do not rush into a fight. But when we do ..... TNZ's goal was to win the race and if you work it back from the finish line, on average the team that rounded the first mark won more than the team that won the start. So the goal became, get to that top mark first.
Just like Bermuda
What no one seems to say is that winning a start is damn hard. There is a LOT going on at really high speed in big bus type boats within a VERY small time space constraint.
One error and it's the back door. You know the limitations of your boat, crew etc and are making value judgements second by second.
Could they they have done better? Probably, but hindsight has no cost and no merit on the day.
Did it make a difference? Fortunately no.
Id love to hear Nathan and Pete explaining the starts and decisions so we get to understand the enormity of the undertaking.
Winning the start for ETNZ seemed to be about gaining access to and protecting the favoured side of the course.
Thanks for your perspective and analysis
This is a super simplistic take, but it just seemed like Luna Rossa and Brittania were just not radical / aggressive enough. If you figure ETNZ is the reigning champ, they are almost definitely going to have a well-prepared crew, and they are likely going to have identified some areas to push to ruleset for that Cup. So you are going to have to find somewhere to really push the envelope to get that defining advantage over the defender. That's why I was hoping American Magic would come together and make a go of it.
I wouldn’t call Luna Rossa a radical looking boat like Ineos Britannia was.
My top 3 boats were, 1) ETNZ 2) Luna Rossa 3) Ineos Britannia
Thanks
Thank you!
Great work guys. Personally one thing I didn't like seeing in this cup was the close relationship between sailing teams and F1 teams. Being able to draw down on hundreds of designers, engineers and data analysts that are NOT on your pay roster I think is pretty underhanded. The proof is in Ineos' performance improvements, the Mercedes team helped make a huge improvements. While I may be biased being a kiwi (without an F1 team), I also think this will become a massive barrier to entry in future for potential new teams entering. The financial barrier was already high but now the technological barrier has become extreme. This will limit competition because financiers are not going to burn through bucket loads of cash trying to win something you have no chance in winning in the first place. There is an easy fix of course and that every person working on the team has to be on the pay roll and perhaps they should put an upper limit on how many designers, engineers and analysts you can actually have on each team. Just my 2 cents...
The cost of entering may destroy the AC. Already Ineos is not getting as much backing for the next race.
Maybe we should tap into Mclaren
@@TheCruisingKiwis Is it not now based in the UK?
I think you're possibly right on the starts, but also due to the all around performance of the boat and crew it didn't matter. Something as simple as listening back to the comms on both boats, there were 4 opinions of equal value and consideration on Taihoro, Ruby on the other hand sounded very much like a captain and his subordinates. Ainslie is a very very good sailor, no doubt of that. Wonder though as he had all of his olympic success in single handers, how that translated to a crewed boat. Different team cultures across the two teams which makes sense. Will be interesting to see what role he takes for AC38.
I don’t think ETNZ had a financial advantage compared to other teams with Billionaire backers. Selling boats and hosting rights were things they had to do just to compete, it would have been a bigger advantage to have held the event at home in New Zealand.
Kiwis pride themselves on thinking outside the box. They've been the most innovative team for years
Even more impressive when you think of the resources the others have
that ETNZ can't even come close to.
Yea remember Dennis calling them cheats cause they turned up with a plastic boat lol.
It comes from spending a lot of time on the Water …
@@stuartmaxwell3801 Dennis was just being a typical American, win in the Courtroom while cheating on the Water while blaming his Competitor …. Not a true Sportsman. That slick coating on his hull helped but I’m pretty sure he Paid Chris Dicknose to throw the race by hitting the last buoy before the homeward reach …
I also think that the ETNZ weather team was a crucial factor. It seemed that they got the side of the course that they wanted regardless of how they did in the start.
Great video and great use of the Lego model 😊
Thanks! 😀
mate have loved the podcast from the start, agree on the starts of us kiwis, keep the content coming
Dear Mozzie (and friends), thanks for the great coverage over the whole event. Still confused why you dont win with better VMG but you might have covered that. See you in 4 years.
When New Zealand won the cup for the first time, way back in the days of monohulls and Sir Peter Blake, we won it despite the 'unfairness' set up against challengers. So did Australia, when they invented the winged keel and took the cup off the Americans for the first time. So 'unfairness' or not, what wins is the best-managed team and the fastest boat sailed by the best sailors
Good Feedback, from Auckland, NZ.
When NZ lost the Cup in the early 2000s, the syndicate was at a cross roads. Grant Dalton came in to lead this group and made some very tough decisions on team members and sponsorship, finance was a problem for future Cups. These decisions were not always popular with the public. Some of the management team have worked together for many years Kevin Shoebridge for example.
Some of the earlier skippers eg; Chris Dickinson has strong Match Racing circuit experience, others Olympic sailors or Blue Water series. This collective knowledge has helped the various formations of NZ teams to place high in the LV Challenge Cup or win the America's Cup.
Love listening to you guys...Im a Kiwi and am always fascinated by the Americas Cup each cycle. I must say I didnt like the way Dylan Fletcher came off in a few interviews.... seemed a little petulant. Maybe no one else saw this..thats fine. He did mention he beat Pistol Pete at the Olympics however I wonder how much time Pete and Blair had in that boat with their sail GP/Americas Cup commitments compared to Dylan...food for thought Dylan. To grab a 2nd with not a lot of time in that boat was pretty incredible. The ole salty dog Ainsle (legend) handled the loss much better.
Great video as always!!!
Nice discussion. Kiwi here and I agree with pre-start, but also think there were at time alternative strategies going on there. You could tell by the chat on the boat when they were comfortable vs not.
Re foils. Forward raked aero-foils have better stall control. They dont just “stall” fail and they have a more progressive and controllable stall profile. The outside of the foil can still be generating lift and ailerons still in control, whilst the centre is stalling. Given the boats are “constantly” at the limit of effective lift, this may create a more manageable, faster save when hitting the limit. It also moves the centre of lift forward. There is a thing on forward raked wings in gliding. Although, to be fair, I am no expert here, I just googled the crap out of it when they first appeared being so different.
The twin mainsheet control seems incredibly obvious and a natural progression from AC36. When you first revealed this when ETNZ launched their new boat I knew it was going to play a part in any speed advantage ETNZ had. With hindsight when you consider all the adjustments that go into traditional sail control and trimming to squeeze incremental speed gains it’s obvious that the twin skin control would have been an advantage. When you revealed this after the launch I originally thought one of the benefits to this additional control would have been creating a more powerful main to assist getting up on the foil in the event of falling off the foils on light tricky wind days. Now that you have shown the link controls, mast rotation etc… compared to GB primarily using their traveler it makes total sense. ETNZ will likely have something up their sleeve for next time, however the challengers are going to be a lot smarter looking into all the changes that have been written into the rules post AC36 & 37. I think it’s going to be a lot more challenging for ETNZ to come up with significant differences to the other challengers such as the twin main controls, link controls & modular foils for AC38. It’s going to be a lot closer next time which I suspect will mean greater need for umpire decisions. I hope we see the modular foil tech available for us recreational foilers one day 😄.
Thanks for the Videos Mozzy. For all us sailors it’s made the AC so much more interesting. As a kiwi who loves foiling I am still a little unsure about this class. There were some great races but a lot of it was predictable. Your videos added so much more to the event. Thanks
thanks 4 all the videos and sharing the insight
At the next cup, the challengers will ALL have the double sheeting technology- but ETNZ will have advanced again and will almost certainly have new advancements.
Agreed! The other teams may even emulate the NZ foil design, although the forward projecting mass on the foil arms should be eliminated across the board in favor of the INEOS implementation. Both ETNZ and LR had this extra mass forward of the foil arms and it didn't seem to fare well in an active sea state.
Lol. NERF Mk 2 no doubt.
@@jamesaron1967
BS.
Its not like the others wouldn't have examined the idea in the design stage they still might think better gains are to be made elsewhere.
@@joschmoyo4532 And you still have ZERO credibility in the discussion - contrived nonsense plucked out of your ass doesn't constitute a discussion point.
I really like your technical analysis but never forget finally at this leve it comes down to sailors , so this is for Sir Ben for the next challenge : Float like a butterfly sting like a bee - your hands can’t hit what your eyes can’t see.” (slightly changed famous quote of Ali)
Great commentary thank you!
Great summary Mozzy
I would like to emphasise the Design team are the most innovative in the AC they are always ahead of the pack
Nathan complemented Burling with his outstanding communication skills
Team NZ were more of a “team” than the other camps Peter and Blair have such a long sailing together history, time together on the water makes a winning team
You guys can win all the starts you like, we prefer to be first over the finish line 🙂
Thanks guys. Next round of gin is on me.
Thank you, very generous!
I wish to clarify a bit the matter of the two independently moves skins. Having two independent skins allow to modify the shape of the wing. this changes hugely the performance as it gives the opportunity to modify the profile in an important manner: you change the wing from a low speed high lift performance (like a VSTOL Plane) to a high speed low drag one. and this could be changed in both the leading and trailing edges. this to say that, while INEOS team have to optimize its performance on a single wing profile, Etnz have to do the same, multiplied by 2 (lead and trail in both tack and straight). so on one hand the management is by far more complex, on the other hand it gives you a totally different potential. when you turn (tack) and in that moment you have an incredible acceleration capability which on high speed will not hinder you on absolute performances, everything changes. here the two main rules on this matter:
C(L)=L/0,5*§*V(square)*S where C(L) is the lift coefficient, §=air density, V=flight speed, S=wing(sail) surface and L=Lift
F=L+D where F=force and D is the aeraulic resistance.
In this model the two sides of the wing (thus the sail sheets) are independently evaluated, thus you could model different shapes and thus a very output power
Kiwi here, I would hold my breath for the 2 minutes to the start line. It seems most of the races were won or lost there. So as long as we were there or there about I could remain confident, until INEOS won two in a row. San Fran memories 😟 Love the content.
Well done, fellas. Yes gb will be back stronger and faster for sure. As will magic and lr. As for the French? They'll be distracted. 😊 Can't believe it took 3 days for yt to let me know about this episode.
Great analysis.
Great video, I remember from the first cup with cyclors that ETNZ had the cyclors "chasing the dot" ie moving the controls to positions indicated by software. This must be happening this time around, dots to chase for wind speed, dots to chase for wind angle and what are the circular things behind the helms? More dots to chase perhaps?
Super Great video... Could you do a video on each of the AC75 teams tactics of seeing the wind. With the boys.. To what extent do they manage to understand, take advantage of that.. How much are they reading.. Then of course the buoy changes that wipe out the knowledge
Burling took tons of starts off Spitthill Bermuda. Maybe GBR got the better of NZ in the Barcelona starts, or maybe NZ put more emphasis course management as a key starting strategy.
Watching the mast cameras makes the advantage quite obvious. The trailing edge of ETNZs main sail was rock solid. Suggesting much steadier flow along both surfaces of the entire main sail. The trailing edge of INEOS main sail was often flapping, which means it wasn't properly loaded, reducing total power. Credit ETNZ with a superior design. But they will lose that advantage in the next cup.
The change in angle of attack at the top of the mainsail suddenly reminded me of the twist in turbine blades. Wind speed at the top of the mast should be higher, so a shorter chord, thinner camber, and what looks like a greater angle of attack is found at the tips in nearly all last stage steam turbine blades. While they are working with flow speeds at the tips just below Mach 1, the increased airfoil twist still makes sense when working with air at speeds that do not have any compression effects.
Well done ETNZ. I assume the other teams are taking notes, but the flapping trailing edge is a dead giveaway that there were flow problems.
Hi guys,
Another excellent debrief.
Thoughts on EMTNZ bulb to foil transitions. They worked out that the balance between induced drag from a soft transition from bulb to wing was greater than the risk of ventilation/cavitation was worth the right call. Therefore ENTNZ had more lift plan area?
Do we think that the international interest both in terms of attendance by enthusiasts attending the event in Barcelona and watching online has reached the point that the sport has now reached critical mass and could be self sustaining in terms of TV rights etc such that the cup cycle is reduced to say 1.5 years?
Finally, gossip on the next challenge. INEO Britannia in, but has the honeymoon with Mercedes AMF F1 drawing to a close?
Keep it going lads!!!
Cheers,
Tim
PS Rob.. was that water or vodka you were sipping? ;-)
All times also pre start Andy Malone ,Blaire Tuke was always involved and all taken comms into. ..
Only once was not taken seriously enough when Andy was saying need more speed and fallen from foils at prestart.
Also Sails on ineos was looking mutch flattering and not smoothly controlled like on Taihoro.
This is the best use of Lego I have ever seen!
If you don't need to win the start it's because you have the faster boat, and it only has to be a tad faster. After that it's about strategy and picking the shifts. They pretty much picked all the shifts. It would be good to do a deep dive on forecasting and what's involved with that. What does 'Clouds' know the others don't?
I honestly thought that the 37th america's cup was going to be closer than the 36th America's cup .. with New Zealand still winning but it was more decisive at 7-2 and it probably should have been 7-1