You actually don't change Mishima's heart. He does it himself. Which actually makes him a lot more compelling since he's one of the few characters that we see do this.
@@dhans9662 Sae's heart never actually changed, imo. Like, we don't get some cutscene of her repenting and the thieves never actually steal her Treasure. I think her Palace was one conditionally created by the fact she was stressed by the conditions she was put under for the case.
I really love Mishima social link, i think that the idea of a timid person turning Into a manipulator and realising his own problems is such a great story, you may not like him, but his social link is great
@@Tony4You I get it, the formula doesn't work in his favor, but i still like it, It feels like a less weird version of Nozomi, a bullied person who became toxic and egocentric when they find power, i still like Nozomi Social Link, just because it's weird, REALLY WEIRD, i don't know, i have Fun with it
I agree. I think Mishima's Social Link was one of the most interesting and unique ones, mainly because it was more about his downfall and him desperately trying to become a better person. Going from someone who supports the Phantom Thieves, to someone who acts like their boss, to someone who starts manipulating them into going after people he hates, to then having his own heart changed. Him receiving the same medicine as the people he had disliked must have gone through probably stinged harshly with him, and led him to not just change because of a change of heart, But because he realized that he was "the bad guy" here. So he just starts trying to make up for it, and then thanks you in the end for everything you've done (i'm pretty sure) because he knows you're probably the only reason he was able to change. From then on, he goes to being the first to cheer on the Phantom Thieves in the Yaldabaoth fight, trying to inspire everyone to lend their last wishes and hopes to the Phantom Thieves. And thus, because the Phantom Thieves were much more admired than Yaldabaoth, the cognitions the world was put in began to favor Joker, the essence of the Phantom Thieves as he is the leader of them. Probably only because of Mishima, unless someone else wanted to inspire the cheering on for the Phantom Thieves, shit would have hit the fan intensely hard. While he did do some horrible things, i think he redeemed himself in the end, and i think he is a showing of someone who could have ended up having a palace, But unlike Kamoshida grew past his much more immoral acts and became a better person because of it. Even If he has to try and cope with him being so weak, he eventually starts to try and become stronger from also helping others more often. I think his character is amazing, though i can completely understand why everyone hates him or Tony hates him as well. I might just be taking my interpretations too far, especially because my memories of Persona 5 are slightly hazy.
I actually liked Bebe's link. Starting to think maybe I was the only one. The idea of just not being able to stay somewhere you love, not having time to deal with the grief of losing a loved one because your entire situation is about to change around you. Most of us I assume wouldn't even know which emotion should lead us where, so it makes sense he is kind of just trying to enjoy the simple day to day life, not doing anything fancy just taking in the basic everyday things of the place he wants to stay.
Let’s be honest, we all either do Ohya confidant for four reasons: 1. You’re trying to get the harem route or the award for harem route in Royal, so you need to romance her, 2. You have no one to hang with or just didn’t realize you were doing it, 3. You actually like her character and backstory, and 4. You want to see Lala Chan.
Mishima never got his heart changed, Joker just left his shadow and Mishima changed on his own, that's actually what makes his turn around pretty cool.
I absolutely loved Hisano, she was my favorite non party member social link. Her social link reminded me a lot of Akinari from 3. Being exclusive to one day, requiring no persona and just.. talking in one place. In both cases you even need to get an item for them to progress the link, and in both cases its about handling the grief of death. Though, more befitting of 4's theme, Hisano was running away from the truth of her husband's passing, and i felt it was just really sad and beautiful.
I agree a lot. Now working in healthcare with senior citizens. Even tho she didn’t specifically say it the way she described her husband sounds like he went through dementia or Alzheimer’s and seeing that every day and the toll it takes on family and the residents themselves this hit a lot harder then my first play through.
@MarieSoTrue Ohya was my favourite character as well, by far. Most of the Persona 5 characters were too childish / simple, in my opinion. They're good guys; they have a problem with a bad guy; the Phantom Thieves solve it. While it is supposed to be tackling mature problems, such as corruption, Persona 5 feels like it was written by / for teenagers, who have a simplistic understanding of the world. Ohya is one of the few characters who actually seemed like a realistic adult. She has realistic problems (both with other people, and with herself), and she's trying to deal with them. She's not pure or innocent; she isn't an unrealistic genius. She's just a woman who has seen first-hand what the world is like, and she's trying to survive in it. With her social link, I actually felt like I was meeting a fellow real-world adult, with all the flaws you could expect from a real person. Had I lived in the Persona 5 world, I could see myself teaming up with / romancing Ohya, and trying to face whatever the world throws at us together. "Yeah, we're both flawed, we both have a lot of issues, but we're somehow going to overcome them together." With characters like Ann or Makoto, on the other hand, it never felt they and I could have belonged in the same world. They're written as video game teenagers; I wouldn't have any common ground with a high-school girl whose main issue is a beauty contest. I can agree that her social link could have been written better, but then again, that's part of her appeal. A woman like Ohya doesn't live in a fairy tale; she's trying to go by in a harsh life.
#5- I agree that this is lackluster. #4- I disagree. It's one of the more tragic and compelling Social Links, even if it probably would have fit slightly better in Persona 3, which has an overarching theme about death. #3- Marie's Social Link isn't one of my favorites, but it's not one of the worse ones, either. #2- I disagree. I personally like Mishima's character development and how he starts out with a selfish ulterior motive, but gradually develops the courage to become a hero in his own right without needing a change of heart. #1- I agree this is one of the weaker ones. Now for my picks. #5- Ayame(Sun, Persona 4 Band) #4-Bebe(Temperance, Persona 3) #3- Kenji(Magician, Persona 3 Male Protagonist) #2- Ohya(Devil, Persona 5) #1- Nozomi(Moon, Persona 3 Male Protagonist)
Marie is the cardinal sin of golden, and that extends to her social link. You don't just add a new waifu, force her to be a required thing in every facet of the game, and make her the de facto waifu for the MC and expect it to go well, and atlus did all of that. Her very existence is a slap in the face of P4 fans
8:38 Idk if anybody else pointed this out but you actually don't change his heart, you just talk to his shadow self and Joker tells him to "Change it yourself." I remember this because it pissed me off for wasting a day of my time lol
I was about to comment on that. Thanks for mentioning. Mishima wasn't exactly the worst in my book and had an believable story to him. Maybe I'm more forgiving to what shadows say since I played 4 first. Going from being a bully victim and a toadie to the PR manager for the Phantom Thieves; It's no wonder he let power go to his head.
I adored Hisano, she's really sweet and her tragic story was really interesting to me I also liked Ohya because she made me think of both Maya and Ulala It was KENJI I hate Makoto Yuki is a massive enabler and you basically spend the Magician social link in 3 encouraging him to constantly and utterly destroy an innocent woman's life, something to which he never realises what awful crap he's done, just going on with no regrets or guilt
To improve Ohya, it would have been better to make her a glamour hound, like those journalists that write celeberity gossip and crap, and you break her out of that addiction so she becomes an ACTUAL journalist.
Kind of disagree, her theme of fighting her bosses to write story she wants fit into the theme of rebelling against society, it could executed better though
I agree that marie is indeed unlikable, her poems are boring and she´s always rude to everyone, but hisano is one of the social links wich i remember the most. All the questioning she creates about felling guilty for not being able to love her husband anymore because he´s a different person (because of sickness) just made me think so much. I had a grandmother with alzheimer and i felt so guilty so many times for thinking that i could´t feel the way i used to since it was not the same person i loved in the past. Maybe her social link feels boring but for me is a really special one (: anyway great video, i would also include kenji from persona 3, i hate his personality and all dialogs hahahha
I can completely see where you're coming from honestly. Hisano's story is incredibly impactful for it's message, but I just felt it slogged too much. Also I agree Kenji can kick rocks lol
I also lost my grandmother to Alzheimer’s. Seeing someone so important to you turn into someone completely different and you can’t ever get back is agonizing. Alzheimer’s is so nuanced with all the feelings you go through, the hatred, the sadness, the grief, the fatigue. People don’t understand how hard it is until they see it day to day.
If we're talking about bad S. Link Perks, we gotta talk about Persona 5 NOT Royal. Ryuji's Insta-Kill perk didn't award you exp in the first game, meaning once you got to a certain threshold you couldn't grind anymore. they fixed this travesty in Royal and thank Yaldabaoth for that.
@@Tony4You to be fair, the original game had the flu season cheese so nobody was grinding instakills on mobs when you could farm instakills on the reaper instead.
Mishima is quite realistic. He was bullied for everything so When he finally gets power he abuses it to gain revenge. I mean the others had power and used it for themselves so Why can’t i?
Mishima just comes out, IMO, as annoying at best and a parasite at worst. At least he change his ways by the end (in a more natural way when comparing to someone like Nozimi, which they both have kinda similar arc), but my god he can be insufferable, and the only thing that keeps my interest in advancing his SC is the absolute broken percks he grants.
Mishimas link is probably one of the best confidants in p5, the fact that you don't actually change his heart and instead he changes his heart on his own terms makes it, in my eyes one of the best
Mishima should've became a Phantom Thief and it would've made him a better social link. Mishima was always getting bullied throughout the game and he always has to be rescued. If he learned to stand up for himself by becoming a phantom thief that would've been the coolest shit ever. TBH he would've been better to have the team instead of Haru. I don't dislike Haru it's just Okumura's palace is the worst palace in the game and the narrative of it wasn't that great. If Mishima was placed in the story instead of Haru that would've made the story more intriguing. It would be better instead of talking to Haru about plants and escaping her ex-fiance.
I really loved Bebe's S.L. since he's really just a french weeb from the late 2000's. He talks like a french (that's why it's so hard to read for a non-french I guess) and he acts like a french weeb (yeah a lot of french weebs are just obsessed with Japan)
It is sad that Hisano is a somewhat forgettable character since I did actually really like her social link. And it doesn’t help that her availability is incredibly strict (she is only available on Sundays and Holidays). I think she would have been more liked if she was more available near the start of the game and they changed her hangout days (maybe they could’ve made her available on Mondays and Saturdays or something)
I liked Marie's Social Link but now it's just... Meh. All the thoughts through my head was "Do it for the extra dungeon and the True Ending". Marie was such a let down... Such a shame.
I disagree about Ohya. What I noticed about P5 is that the some tarot confidants takes on a slight different meaning then P3 and 4. The devil instead of representing temptation it represents the willingness to take on necessary evil in order to accomplish important objectives. In this sense I think her role in the story is quite cleverly written. In her confidant story she uses you to advance her own agenda however, in the end she also turns out to be a valuable asset to you. If you remember while you were locked up she managed to track down and convinced a confession from the woman witness that was involved with your incident with Shido that got you arrested and put on probation in the first place. While all your confidants contributed to gather awareness and support for your case. It was stated that the confession was the evident that proved your innocence and ultimately got the court to reverse your sentence. Plus she is a good source to level up your charm. Along with Tora (Sun confidant) and some stuff that you can do here and there you can max out your charm without really spending time to actively train for it.
Honestly I'd put Ann on the list. After her excellent arc in Kamoshida's palace, I was hoping her confidant would be about the mental scars and aftermath of what happened but NOPE! instead I got "I wanna be a better model uwu." Maybe not the worst but it was such a fuckin letdown, to me at least. Also she's a sexual abuse victim who is constantly sexualized in the rest of the game. Wtf
Damn i really like Bebe i found him enjoyable Yes, is SL is weird af and sometimes pointless but i have fun and he looks and acts like a nice friend i like Bebe a lot The Death Arcana in p4 is also one of my favorites, her story is really sad and touching, i personally feel that horrible feeling of someone forgotting about you and its really paintful so at least to me she is one of the best
Bruh poor Ohya, man...i think she had a pretty damn good social link, especially because she felt kind of...you know, "canon" and relevant to the main plot. I really like her being the informant for the thieves for Kaneshiro, being interested in the Madarame case and directly involved with the Shido stuff. She just fits in. I was thinking Makoto's social link would be on this list, actually. You don't do anything but meddle in the affairs (literally) of a friend of hers in that. It's infuriatingly bad.
I agree she has a place in the story, but liking her is something I can't say I do. Makoto has a horrible social link to be sure, but being main party member heightens you unfairly because of story related development.
@@Tony4You Yeah, that's fair. Btw. i played through P4 not too long ago and seeing the old lady STILL made me go "huh, a new character?". Am i her alzheimers husband?
I still like Ohya’s social link and do it. Strangely enough I Max it two times, once in the original and second in Royal. I do agree that it’s not the best and is considered the least liked social link(though I don’t hate it, I don’t hate Chihaya’s either, but her is just frustrating to finish, wanted to say that). Plus you get the second best girl in the social link(first best girl being Igor), Lala Chan.
There is only 2 i really disagree with. With Hisano I find myself effected more by it because I have dealt with a family member with dementia so it rings pretty close to home for me. With Mishima I actually like his character and the arc he goes through. Combine that with him having one of the better confidant abilities I cant help but really enjoy it.
Margaret is great to grind, Mind Charge Trumpeter (LV10 Margaret S.Link) hits like a truck, I love to use this Persona. But the fox isn't reward much at difficulty of NPCs searching xD.
Didn't like Marie's social link or character, but honestly loved her dungeon. The whole dungeon forces you to think carefully about whether or not to fight enemies to try and get keys, which provides a challenge lacking in the rest of the game.
sadly because of the existance of rise i never ran out of SP in that dungeon, if you math it out you will always have at least 20 percent Sp at the end of a battle because of her overpowered SP recovery and the sp recovery per turn on top of that from the items you get in the dungeon
I personally kinda disliked Tanaka….. especially after he called the femc a diamond in the rough, but essentially tells the Malec (stop hanging out with me or people might think we’re gay). I mean yeah his development was pretty good but he just kinda rubs me the wrong way in many cases
@@mannysmith5397 I’m aware he’s supposed to. But I wouldn’t say we “correct” his morals. I think we pretty much encourage him to do one good deed. Then after that his morals pretty much become ambiguous I believe
I kinda agree with you about Marie being unnecessarily rude, but that was almost definitely just the point? That’s a common cop out, I know, but Marie’s identity crisis that is present effectively from the start of her social link in conjunction with never interacting with humans means that she’s going to be closed off. That being said, your criticisms are largely on the dot. I like Marie, but she’s incredibly mean in the first 6(?) social link interactions & the fact that she’s mandatory rubs even me the wrong way. Guess I’m just a sucker for that “friendship wins” vibe her dungeon ending has!
I have a soft spot for those stories too honestly lol, and her dungeon was her highlight. Still disliked her social link though. Hope you enjoyed the video
@@Tony4You I have meet people that likes her. And characters like Azuka, Sakura and Taiga are their favorites. However I must admit that the very majority that I found doesn't like her that much.
I really disagree with the list. Hisano's social link was one of the best for me as it was personal, tragic and reflected the idea of selfhatred, when someone dear to you passes away when you were unable to help them. Mishima's social link was full if character development, though I may be biased, as I like his character. Ohia is not bad. She may look pale in P5, but that's just because the other links are great. Persona 3 links are the most representing the arcana, but they are kind of boring. The Temperence represents also higher power that guides you, a helping hand. And his aunt, the helping hand, has disappeared, so he is reaching to his uncle. So it is a good representation, but not very entertaining. So my list would be: 1. Marie (I just don't get really point, maybe I am wrong). 2. Nozomu (I understand the representation if the moon, but it is too chaotic). 3. The Fortune from Persona 3 (don't remember him at all). 4. Shinya (I get it, but it was the weakest from P5 for me). 5. The P4 Sun blushing girl. Ayane? She was plainly boring. The Star, Strength and Bebe from P3 just weren't memorable for me. Just shows that tastes differ, huh
Thanks for the comment, and I like your personal list. Everyone has different opinions on the links and I understand not everyone will have the same personal impact. At least we agree on Marie lol
Only have one issue with what you said. For Mishima you specifically don't change his heart. At least not in the normal fashion so I feel that makes his character development a lot more weighty since he changes via his own self reflection
@@Tony4You I feel like my opinion on it would've been just like yours had the the game forced a change of heart, but the fact that it boils down to Joker telling Mishima "Bro you fucked up" and Mishima going "Damn you right" makes it likeable
Mishima is still my favourite, idk what you mean with he only changed because you changed his heart, since you didn't change his heart, he changed by himself whcih is integral to his character and the reason why some love him, he was an abused boy who when gaining the power became the abuser, and when you point out how horrible he is and he himself recognises that, he wants you to change his heart, but you refuse and he changes for the better by himself, whcih makes this my favourite non-party confidant in the game
I disagree with Mishima on the list especially since he is an upgraded story over Nozomi. Mishima and Nozomi both want recognition/be important/be useful. With Mishima, you see a friend start with good intent as you praise him only to call him out on his bs when he starts stepping out of line where he ultimately changes his own heart.(Using the ‘correct dialogue’) and he is applies what he learnt in his social link into the story where he’s first one to take initiative to support the phantom thieves. Meanwhile Nozomi, the guy *STEALS* $1000s from a kids tuition, forms a *DEATH CULT* and eating his *LIFE* away. And the ‘correct dialogue’ is to agree with everything he says and cheer him on as he commits crimes against *HUMANITY* until he *GASLIGHTS* himself into thinking you’re against him even tho you’ve been *AGREEING* with everything he’s saying. Then you have to save him from getting the *BEATING HE DESERVES!* and the reveal is that he did all that because he was jealous of his dead brother… He even admits he felts no remorse over his brothers death and your final dialogue to him is telling him(paraphrased) “FK UR BROTHER U BE U” 😮”Ye ur right FK MY DEAD BROTHER!” Then he fks off. The only slight redemption is in the epilogue where you find out such a train wreck off a kid became a menu adviser and cleaned up his act.(But then you remember he never paid back the money he stole).
Mishima did abuse his position but he learned the error of his ways and managed to change despite the thieves only talking to him and nit changing his heart. I doubt that was an easy thing to do
I actually loved Hisano’s social link. I lost my grandmother to dementia and it’s so layered with how you deal with it. I often found myself wanting my grandma to pass because seeing her constantly forget and grow frustrated with the world around her was heartbreaking and, admittedly, annoying. But so much of my life has changed. I’m not good with words to describe why I think her social link is very fitting to me, even with lack of new scenery. It’s like Hisano is trying to find herself again after coping with the loss of her husband who she only remembers. I agree about Marie, though. I tried so hard to like her but she wasn’t endearing at all.
Hot take: LaLa Escargot should've been the Devil arcana. A poor queer kid growing up, she got into drag and femme fashion and eventually started using it as a way to avoid facing herself.
8:37 thats the entire problem of persona 5 story. Phantom thieves are changing someone's heart and BOOM now it's a good person that wants attone for their sins wow cool no personal struggle at all. Except for the Futaba's arc, but thats why her palace is the best in the game.
Pretty much I mean that's why one of the Bad Endings of the game makes sense where they become the power to do whatever they want replacing the villains and why Persona Strikers legitimately feels like a really good spin-off and deals with the characters much differently than this one, I like the confidants a lot because a lot of them solve their problems on their own sure you help them but they figured it out, the game does answer the question where it's like they wanted more Fame than actually doing the right thing.
Personally, i really like bebe. Maybe it’s just because I’ve only gotten to level 3 on his social link, or maybe it’s just because his voice actor is so good in p3r (first time playing p3)
One thing to note, I don't think that Phantom thieves changed Mishima's heart. Change of heart revolves around thieves fight the shadow, they just questioned his shadow of his morality and left. sure, if he keeps doing whatever he was doing afterwards, they'd hop back to mementos and fuck his shadow up, but he managed to change (mostly) on his own.
With Marie, I have a feeling there’s always going to be *that* social link/confidant that Atlus is going to slap in there that they KNOW you’re going to hate but NEED to max out if you want the true ending or extra content. Marie in P4G and Akechi in P5R. Whenever interacting with these two I always feel like I HAVE to talk to them whenever they’re available just so I’m not locked out of the endgame content.
Bebe, a kid adapting to a new life and ends up caught in family drama after his closest relative passes away. Hisano, a mourning old lady that feels regret for things she said. Marie, a girl with amnesia that is also very important to the plot and is trying to find herself. Mishima, a bullied and abused boy who finally gets the chance to do something fun in his life but ends up spiraling and needs help to be pulled back from that. And Ohya, a reporter trying to find a lead on what happened to her close friend while dealing with an abusive boss and surrounded by shady officials. You say all of these are bad when they are all actually very nice side plots and three of them actually being tied to the plot. This list is trash. Dude probably thinks that Makoto's in P5's is the best social link out there.
Interesting list even though I don't agree with all of them. I'm actually surprised to see you're not more popular since this is a really well put together video. As for a list of I think I'd be something like: 5. Mishima from P5; 4. Hidetoshi from P3; 3. Akechi from default P5; 2. Nozomi from P3; 1. Ken from P3P (I know you didn't put exclusive p3p social links on yours but I can't really think of a social link I dislike more)
dude really put all of the most popular and well liked side social links on the "worst" list, im dead lmao. Marie, Ohya, Hisano, Mishima, and Bebe are all fine. Also imagine calling a lady needing help dealing with her grief is a bad plotline smh
Marie is actually one of my favorites in golden. I don't understand why everyone finds her so unlikable. Speaking personally, I think the moon social link from Persona 3 (can't even remember the guys name) is one of the worst and is more deserving of a place on the list. The rest of the social links I agree with though, but I am somewhat on the fence about Hisano.
I can relate to Marie. I have clinical depression. I find myself in severe mental anguish where I completely shutdown and have to lock myself away for the day. But, I don’t get sad. I get angry. See, rage is a side-emotion of sadness and depression. If you can’t cry out your sadness, it can manifest as rage (fun fact: it is this type of rage that fuels the power rings of the Red Lanterns from DC). I end up accidentally getting angry at and hurting those around me. That’s why I seal myself off until the depression episode subsides in a couple of days at most. So, I get Marie being snippy. I think I have been where she is coming from. Thankfully, I am getting help and she got the help she needed.
Man, Mishima's confidant/sl is one of the best in the series. Good and biggest character development and spectacular reward. And, of course, like many people said, you do not change Mishima's heart you just talk with him. I didn't like his character at the start, but in the end, he became really good.
I know that this was posted a long time ago, but there is one correction I have for Mishima’s confidant: You don’t change his heart. Yes, you go to Mementos and find his shadow, but after seeing how pathetic it is you as a group decide to just leave him to stew on your words. He changes himself on his own, not by getting the crap beaten out of him.
The best part about Marie is the brick joke in the golden ending where Nanako repaeats her question from really early in the game about the weather reporter, but now shes accidentally right.
Hisano from P4? For me is actually one of the best SLs. The woman is talking how his husband got dementia and how he forgot about her, he was frustrated and feeling guilty for wishing his death to both could be free. Anyone who had a familiar with this disease can relate with it. Not many games talk about something like this.
Glad you made this kind of video I enjoy the Persona series as well but there are definitely ones where I dreaded doing them again (I'm looking at you Moon Arcana-P3) 😂
Ohya is actually my favorite non-party member confidant in 5 (still playing through Royal). Setting aside the uselessness of her confidant ability (which of course wouldn't have even been an issue in the previous two games) she's the only one I can remember who would have kept fighting her truly righteous fight with or without the intervention of the Phantom Thieves. Hell, everyone's favorite, Kawakami was basically like "Damn, guess I better start hooking" when met with a little adversity. Ohya was just like "yeah, let my asshole boss keep piling more work on me, I'll still pursue my thing". Whether she would have succeeded or not, she wasn't going to give up. Plus just the surface stuff of her being "Drunk Yukiko" full time and her friendship with Lala-chan were a lot of fun. Great character, 10/10.
This is actually a good take, I can see where you're coming from. I may not agree as I had an issue with the tarot representation and overall development, but I get it now.
I was actually thinking of the tarot representation while watching this video and it got me to thinking about "how does materialism manifest in people who have no means" and diving into vices like drinking seems like a logical step. Keep in mind most PEOPLE aren't just total villains even if they would be categorized under one tarot or another. Ohya is a devil but ultimately a good person who let's not kid ourselves, probably would have run way off the rails without Lala chan and maybe the MC. The previous devil ultimately went to work for a Doctors without borders-esque charity. Tanaka seems like a royal prick though. In spite of seemingly moving past his wicked ways in P3 we see him price gouging gas masks during the Inaba fog crisis and later running a black market site. He's kind of the worst and best devil at the same time for how his story evolves but if you thought you made a difference as Makoto or Minato think again.
@@Tony4You I know I'm late, but I think bein' an adult with such a strong drive already made a low bar for development anyways. The big thing I will say for tarot representation is not just materialism. The Devil Arcana can also represent on a more positive side an extreme dedication to a cause, which Ohya had a really strong dedication to uncovering the truth of the scandal, even continuing to do it no matter how much her boss piles on the quota, even during the time when you go into Mementos, she would've continued and ground herself into the ground because it's the cause she's dedicated herself to without fail, which is part of the Devil from the I understand.
I kind of liked how at least from The Game's perspective after a while The Confidant understand that you are the Phantom thieves, and with him being the person that runs the website he's really and truly the closest person to that at least before Futaba, he thought that he can basically become one of them or at least he was someone who went through a lot of bullying and ridicule and abuse that he had to find out the answer on his own, that's not easy especially when you do feel like you do finally have some amount of power, I actually felt like he grew on his own without really your help, he fits really well in the Persona Strikers game to be completely honest although everyone hates him, because how dare you get corrupted by power even though that's one of the things the characters had to learn when they got high off of their success.
5: at least it wasn't the worst social link in the game. I mostly remember his link on the female side and that he wasn't one of the romance options, which I found to be quite amusing. 4: I get why Hisano's social link would be here for you. However I did found this social link to be quite interesting. The arcana isn't fully related to death in a literal sense but it instead its more or less death of one thing and moving on to the next part of the life and I think Hisano captures that well. I maxed this out over the course of a bunch of Sundays as it felt more meaningful in that way. My grandmother has depression so I can relate to how she feels in this social link. I don't find it to be much of an issue on social links that don't have dialogue options that specifically give out points as gives out a variety (and one less thing to consult the guide for since I always do max social link playthroughs). Sorry about the huge point, I had a lot to say here as it is one of my favorites. 3: the Thoth (its pronounciation removes the h and it becomes more uh...that) arcana is one that I am not fully able to understand but as for how I feel about Marie's link. I wasn't that fond of it myself as well the humor used throughout isn't that great (I hated 99% of the comedy in Persona 4's writing) and I didn't really get attached to her and dealing with her struggles. Bits of it felt like it doesn't progress through the link which doesn't help. Marie being a tsundere also doesn't help (most of them aren't written that well) with the issues as I hated bits of her personality. 2: the moon arcana in itself isn't really that well liked, in terms of its meanings and other than Shinjiro (femmc route of p3) no one from this arcana in the p3-p5 era have I actually liked (Ai is close but her first few ranks are rough to get through). I get the point of it as it all relates to Mementos and him handling the fan site. However a problem I have is that Joker very much treats him like a punching bag in the early ranks bug I really did like the concept of this social link so he gets credit for that. At least he doesn't win the honor of the worst Moon social link (P3 whhhyyyy) 1: tbh the best thing that came out of this social link is that I really looked forward to seeing Lala Escargot each and every time I went to the Crossroads bar. A bigger problem is the bonuses that this gives out which is best for Mementos and not much else. A shame that the bonuses could have been so so much better. edit on 1: Tanaka is indeed the king of the arcana, my favorite social link in Persona 3 :) I enjoyed the video :)
How to enjoy Hisano's social link? Simple, if you feel it drags too long, go watch the anime. ... Her social link feels like a limitation of some sort since the "side characters" social link are usually tied in just a single spot, which is damaging what could be a good experience instead.
Fun fact , in the frenche version of persona 3 reload , bebe is called dandy and the french words are replaced with japanese ones, so it's weird to play and do his social link as his voice don't really says what he says in his speech
Honestly, I think Mamoru should've been on the list instead of Bebe. I found Mamoru's to be incredibly uninteresting and the problem that came up kind of resolved itself and would've happened without us. For me, Mamoru was the social link I'd do when no one else was available and I didn't want to talk to Nozomi
Why is Hisano and Mishima here? Story of an old woman sharing her life after a loved ones death is bad storytelling? A boy who is bullied most of his life, meeting people who changed his life but he starts becoming the type of person he hated then realizing his own mistakes and changing for the better is a bad confidant? Kind of a bad list. Bebe's a bit shallow but social links are meant for you to develop a bond with someone, so simply hanging out and supporting a friend is fine. I agree with Marie though. I hate that b.
Hey I can see where you're coming from for sure. This list was more or less an avenue for jokes (aside from Marie lol) I hope the video was entertaining nonetheless
Hisano? Really? She is one of my favorite arcana for the exact reasons you pointed. She is a lonely old woman with only her memories to share. She DOESN'T think she deserves your time, she always suggests that she has nothing to offer and that you should do something else, while expecting you to come back. Yu talking to her makes her remember her husband and the grief, and actively remember the negative feelings while hanging out. He is an old lady and acts as one, she just want someone to talk, and Yu can be that person. There's no reward for listening to her other than liking to talk to an old lady. It's the same as saying nanako is bad because she acts as a child. Hisano is an old lady and acts as one, as someone who likes talking with the elder, I love her.
Honestly, any implied canon romance social links in the definitive remakes rub me the wrong way, because Atlus REALLY wants you to pick them to the point where it feels awkward if you don't. Yukiko and Makoto felt organic because some of their alone time with the protagonists felt organic to the story. Kasumi and Marie on the other hand are interjected where the plot allows, there is something weird about picking your romance option in p5r, only to have Joker's showtime feature him holding Kasumi like his love interest in an action movie. Ironically, I actually really like their characters, but their links feel forced and formulaic for the sake of getting the player to like them more
This may be a hot take, but I think Mishima and Yoshida are the only good (optional) social links in 5. I think 5’s social links would’ve been a lot better if you encouraged the confidant to rebel themselves instead of just stealing their oppressor’s hearts. It makes them predictable and boring. It’s why most of my bottom 5 are from P5. I feel like they were missed opportunities to align them with the core themes of the game.
The worst SL for me is the devil in Persona 4... Like, what the hell woman? Do you know that Yu is 16? Besides, I'm here for money and little boost of courage so I can by new armor for my homie or he will fucking die and tell my uncle that my sister just wanted to make dinner for him.
worst social links: basically all the ones in Persona 3 except the Sun and Hanged Man I guess (though the Hermit's ending with Toriyumi is humourous). They were so boring and ugh Ohya. Her ability is useless and I never found her to be interesting. The P5 confidants weren't great in general honestly. The abilities were nice but they character links were... not good but Ohya was the worst. Its a big problem with P5 in general. It's all Phantom Thieves all the time it was exhausting. No peaks and valleys which makes for poor writing and pacing Ayane Sun and Daisuke(?) Strength. Needing confidence is relatable but Ayane was just... not the best especially compared to Yumi as the alternate Sun. Similar for Daisuke, he's just so uninteresting compared to Kou. I don't even remember what Daisuke's was about
I think we mostly have the same characters I just would've shuffled them around a bit and removed Bebe from the top five in favor of Nozomi, placing him at number 1, moving Ohya down to number 2, and placing Mishima at number 5.
You actually don't change Mishima's heart. He does it himself. Which actually makes him a lot more compelling since he's one of the few characters that we see do this.
The only other person to do it is Sae yeah?
@@dhans9662 Sae's heart never actually changed, imo. Like, we don't get some cutscene of her repenting and the thieves never actually steal her Treasure. I think her Palace was one conditionally created by the fact she was stressed by the conditions she was put under for the case.
I really love Mishima social link, i think that the idea of a timid person turning Into a manipulator and realising his own problems is such a great story, you may not like him, but his social link is great
I understand his appeal. I just wish he was in a game other than P5. That game's social link formula doesn't lend itself well to it.
@@Tony4You I get it, the formula doesn't work in his favor, but i still like it, It feels like a less weird version of Nozomi, a bullied person who became toxic and egocentric when they find power, i still like Nozomi Social Link, just because it's weird, REALLY WEIRD, i don't know, i have Fun with it
I agree. I think Mishima's Social Link was one of the most interesting and unique ones, mainly because it was more about his downfall and him desperately trying to become a better person. Going from someone who supports the Phantom Thieves, to someone who acts like their boss, to someone who starts manipulating them into going after people he hates, to then having his own heart changed. Him receiving the same medicine as the people he had disliked must have gone through probably stinged harshly with him, and led him to not just change because of a change of heart, But because he realized that he was "the bad guy" here. So he just starts trying to make up for it, and then thanks you in the end for everything you've done (i'm pretty sure) because he knows you're probably the only reason he was able to change. From then on, he goes to being the first to cheer on the Phantom Thieves in the Yaldabaoth fight, trying to inspire everyone to lend their last wishes and hopes to the Phantom Thieves. And thus, because the Phantom Thieves were much more admired than Yaldabaoth, the cognitions the world was put in began to favor Joker, the essence of the Phantom Thieves as he is the leader of them. Probably only because of Mishima, unless someone else wanted to inspire the cheering on for the Phantom Thieves, shit would have hit the fan intensely hard. While he did do some horrible things, i think he redeemed himself in the end, and i think he is a showing of someone who could have ended up having a palace, But unlike Kamoshida grew past his much more immoral acts and became a better person because of it. Even If he has to try and cope with him being so weak, he eventually starts to try and become stronger from also helping others more often. I think his character is amazing, though i can completely understand why everyone hates him or Tony hates him as well. I might just be taking my interpretations too far, especially because my memories of Persona 5 are slightly hazy.
Actually Mishima reminding me of myself.
An annoying person in other people's eyes.
HE'S JUST LIKE ME FR!!!!!!
I actually liked Bebe's link. Starting to think maybe I was the only one. The idea of just not being able to stay somewhere you love, not having time to deal with the grief of losing a loved one because your entire situation is about to change around you. Most of us I assume wouldn't even know which emotion should lead us where, so it makes sense he is kind of just trying to enjoy the simple day to day life, not doing anything fancy just taking in the basic everyday things of the place he wants to stay.
i liked it too!
nah i loved his social link too
he still ranked it as one of the worst in the franchise, very unfair
literally cried my eyes out on reload reading his letter
Bro bebe is the best. He's the first social link I maxed out for how adorable he is.
Maybe the *real* worst social links were the *gods we rejected along the way*
One more god rejected…😔
Wrong g-
*[Remembers Yaldabaoth, Nyx, and Izanami]*
Nvm it fits here
here in the persona/smt community, we're atheist because rejecting gods is funny
@@herculesbeetle More like Gnostic.
Let’s be honest, we all either do Ohya confidant for four reasons: 1. You’re trying to get the harem route or the award for harem route in Royal, so you need to romance her, 2. You have no one to hang with or just didn’t realize you were doing it, 3. You actually like her character and backstory, and 4. You want to see Lala Chan.
Achievement hunters and Lala chan appreciators
Or you just want Beelzebub
It also gives a good amount of Charm on certain events, and if you complete it, you unlock Beelzebub, who you can use to make Haru's best axe.
Lmao now that I think about it, I always looked forward to seeing Lala Chan
i get it to the lvl where saferooms lower the rate, idk why. . . its bad still lol
Mishima never got his heart changed, Joker just left his shadow and Mishima changed on his own, that's actually what makes his turn around pretty cool.
I absolutely loved Hisano, she was my favorite non party member social link. Her social link reminded me a lot of Akinari from 3. Being exclusive to one day, requiring no persona and just.. talking in one place. In both cases you even need to get an item for them to progress the link, and in both cases its about handling the grief of death. Though, more befitting of 4's theme, Hisano was running away from the truth of her husband's passing, and i felt it was just really sad and beautiful.
I agree a lot. Now working in healthcare with senior citizens. Even tho she didn’t specifically say it the way she described her husband sounds like he went through dementia or Alzheimer’s and seeing that every day and the toll it takes on family and the residents themselves this hit a lot harder then my first play through.
As someone whose grandmother had dementia I totally relate with her, seeing the frustration in my house.
Wow. No mention of Nozomi from Persona 3. That's surprising.
He was memorable, you gotta give him that
i played persona 3 4 times, and i don't know who that is
@@Bruno-fw6nw fat guy, moon social link. male route only.
@@Tony4You memorable in all the wrong ways.
@@Tony4You he's memorable because he's obese easily the worst social link in the series
ohya as number 1, we truly live in a society... think gamers are oppressed? try being an ohya fan
YIKES we found the one
@@Tony4You oh shit, someone get the firing squad
why is this repIy gIitching i IiteraIIy didnt mean to send this repIy this was supposed to be a repIy on a comment on a different vide
*I GOT YOU HOMIE*
@MarieSoTrue Ohya was my favourite character as well, by far.
Most of the Persona 5 characters were too childish / simple, in my opinion. They're good guys; they have a problem with a bad guy; the Phantom Thieves solve it. While it is supposed to be tackling mature problems, such as corruption, Persona 5 feels like it was written by / for teenagers, who have a simplistic understanding of the world.
Ohya is one of the few characters who actually seemed like a realistic adult. She has realistic problems (both with other people, and with herself), and she's trying to deal with them. She's not pure or innocent; she isn't an unrealistic genius. She's just a woman who has seen first-hand what the world is like, and she's trying to survive in it.
With her social link, I actually felt like I was meeting a fellow real-world adult, with all the flaws you could expect from a real person. Had I lived in the Persona 5 world, I could see myself teaming up with / romancing Ohya, and trying to face whatever the world throws at us together. "Yeah, we're both flawed, we both have a lot of issues, but we're somehow going to overcome them together." With characters like Ann or Makoto, on the other hand, it never felt they and I could have belonged in the same world. They're written as video game teenagers; I wouldn't have any common ground with a high-school girl whose main issue is a beauty contest.
I can agree that her social link could have been written better, but then again, that's part of her appeal. A woman like Ohya doesn't live in a fairy tale; she's trying to go by in a harsh life.
#5- I agree that this is lackluster.
#4- I disagree. It's one of the more tragic and compelling Social Links, even if it probably would have fit slightly better in Persona 3, which has an overarching theme about death.
#3- Marie's Social Link isn't one of my favorites, but it's not one of the worse ones, either.
#2- I disagree. I personally like Mishima's character development and how he starts out with a selfish ulterior motive, but gradually develops the courage to become a hero in his own right without needing a change of heart.
#1- I agree this is one of the weaker ones.
Now for my picks.
#5- Ayame(Sun, Persona 4 Band)
#4-Bebe(Temperance, Persona 3)
#3- Kenji(Magician, Persona 3 Male Protagonist)
#2- Ohya(Devil, Persona 5)
#1- Nozomi(Moon, Persona 3 Male Protagonist)
If there was one regret I had with this list. It's not mentioning Kenji at least a little lol
Nah dude, Kenji's is one of my favorites. Really just feels like THAT guy from middle school and I was laughing the entire time.
Yeah Nozomi is the worst! Cult ass cry baby.
Marie is the cardinal sin of golden, and that extends to her social link. You don't just add a new waifu, force her to be a required thing in every facet of the game, and make her the de facto waifu for the MC and expect it to go well, and atlus did all of that. Her very existence is a slap in the face of P4 fans
your list is exactly the same as mine
8:38 Idk if anybody else pointed this out but you actually don't change his heart, you just talk to his shadow self and Joker tells him to "Change it yourself."
I remember this because it pissed me off for wasting a day of my time lol
I was about to comment on that. Thanks for mentioning. Mishima wasn't exactly the worst in my book and had an believable story to him. Maybe I'm more forgiving to what shadows say since I played 4 first. Going from being a bully victim and a toadie to the PR manager for the Phantom Thieves; It's no wonder he let power go to his head.
@@jikmjuhn As said in P4, shadows are the true self, the truth they believe but don’t want to admit.
I actually liked Hisano... but I've always identified most with old people.
She has a great concept, but it drags a bit too long.
that's becau- because- b- bec you're old hahahsiuhchjabschjvabsnvds vjdnbtr nkfvjk gnnm gfk
I actually think it's the most interesting social link in that game.
@@INFERN0FIRE ditto
@@INFERN0FIRE The concept is actually pretty deep, too deep for a Persona game.
I liked Mishimas because it can show you can change your OWN heart and have it not be stolen by the Phantom Thives
It's a nice message if nothing else to me
I adored Hisano, she's really sweet and her tragic story was really interesting to me
I also liked Ohya because she made me think of both Maya and Ulala
It was KENJI I hate
Makoto Yuki is a massive enabler and you basically spend the Magician social link in 3 encouraging him to constantly and utterly destroy an innocent woman's life, something to which he never realises what awful crap he's done, just going on with no regrets or guilt
So true kenji was so annoying. Hisano was such a fitting and calm social link for the game.
I agree with you on hisano. She reminds me of both of my ajjis(grandmothers). Since her husband died 2 years before i was born.
To improve Ohya, it would have been better to make her a glamour hound, like those journalists that write celeberity gossip and crap, and you break her out of that addiction so she becomes an ACTUAL journalist.
Hard agree. Actual character growth even if it's relatively inconsequential, would make her 10x better
Kind of disagree, her theme of fighting her bosses to write story she wants fit into the theme of rebelling against society, it could executed better though
I agree that marie is indeed unlikable, her poems are boring and she´s always rude to everyone, but hisano is one of the social links wich i remember the most. All the questioning she creates about felling guilty for not being able to love her husband anymore because he´s a different person (because of sickness) just made me think so much. I had a grandmother with alzheimer and i felt so guilty so many times for thinking that i could´t feel the way i used to since it was not the same person i loved in the past. Maybe her social link feels boring but for me is a really special one (: anyway great video, i would also include kenji from persona 3, i hate his personality and all dialogs hahahha
I can completely see where you're coming from honestly. Hisano's story is incredibly impactful for it's message, but I just felt it slogged too much. Also I agree Kenji can kick rocks lol
I also lost my grandmother to Alzheimer’s. Seeing someone so important to you turn into someone completely different and you can’t ever get back is agonizing. Alzheimer’s is so nuanced with all the feelings you go through, the hatred, the sadness, the grief, the fatigue. People don’t understand how hard it is until they see it day to day.
If we're talking about bad S. Link Perks, we gotta talk about Persona 5 NOT Royal. Ryuji's Insta-Kill perk didn't award you exp in the first game, meaning once you got to a certain threshold you couldn't grind anymore. they fixed this travesty in Royal and thank Yaldabaoth for that.
OH YEAH. I forgot about that. What a big oversight
@@Tony4You to be fair, the original game had the flu season cheese so nobody was grinding instakills on mobs when you could farm instakills on the reaper instead.
Mishima is quite realistic. He was bullied for everything so When he finally gets power he abuses it to gain revenge. I mean the others had power and used it for themselves so Why can’t i?
Mishima only works because you don't change his heart. You don't even fight him. You straight up tell him to fix himself. And he grows on his own.
Bruh Mishima better than most other social links rip
Mishima's social link is top tier for me idk why people hate him
@@evangelos480 yea honestly he’s for sure in the top 10 social links across all persona games for me
Mishima just comes out, IMO, as annoying at best and a parasite at worst. At least he change his ways by the end (in a more natural way when comparing to someone like Nozimi, which they both have kinda similar arc), but my god he can be insufferable, and the only thing that keeps my interest in advancing his SC is the absolute broken percks he grants.
Mishimas link is probably one of the best confidants in p5, the fact that you don't actually change his heart and instead he changes his heart on his own terms makes it, in my eyes one of the best
Mishima should've became a Phantom Thief and it would've made him a better social link. Mishima was always getting bullied throughout the game and he always has to be rescued. If he learned to stand up for himself by becoming a phantom thief that would've been the coolest shit ever. TBH he would've been better to have the team instead of Haru. I don't dislike Haru it's just Okumura's palace is the worst palace in the game and the narrative of it wasn't that great. If Mishima was placed in the story instead of Haru that would've made the story more intriguing. It would be better instead of talking to Haru about plants and escaping her ex-fiance.
I really loved Bebe's S.L. since he's really just a french weeb from the late 2000's. He talks like a french (that's why it's so hard to read for a non-french I guess) and he acts like a french weeb (yeah a lot of french weebs are just obsessed with Japan)
with reload just releasing, his dialogue is fully voice acted and it makes him so much more likeable
5:41 Marie is a sh*tty tsundere, Kanji is the best Persona4 tsundere
PREACH FRIEND
It is sad that Hisano is a somewhat forgettable character since I did actually really like her social link. And it doesn’t help that her availability is incredibly strict (she is only available on Sundays and Holidays).
I think she would have been more liked if she was more available near the start of the game and they changed her hangout days (maybe they could’ve made her available on Mondays and Saturdays or something)
Yeah I can agree with that. Most universally disliked social links are difficult to increase or highly missable like Eri.
I liked Marie's Social Link but now it's just... Meh.
All the thoughts through my head was "Do it for the extra dungeon and the True Ending". Marie was such a let down... Such a shame.
Nothing's perfect, just a shame they went with her personality when almost anything else would have been better. True ending worth it though
I disagree about Ohya. What I noticed about P5 is that the some tarot confidants takes on a slight different meaning then P3 and 4. The devil instead of representing temptation it represents the willingness to take on necessary evil in order to accomplish important objectives. In this sense I think her role in the story is quite cleverly written. In her confidant story she uses you to advance her own agenda however, in the end she also turns out to be a valuable asset to you. If you remember while you were locked up she managed to track down and convinced a confession from the woman witness that was involved with your incident with Shido that got you arrested and put on probation in the first place. While all your confidants contributed to gather awareness and support for your case. It was stated that the confession was the evident that proved your innocence and ultimately got the court to reverse your sentence.
Plus she is a good source to level up your charm. Along with Tora (Sun confidant) and some stuff that you can do here and there you can max out your charm without really spending time to actively train for it.
Honestly I'd put Ann on the list. After her excellent arc in Kamoshida's palace, I was hoping her confidant would be about the mental scars and aftermath of what happened but NOPE! instead I got "I wanna be a better model uwu." Maybe not the worst but it was such a fuckin letdown, to me at least. Also she's a sexual abuse victim who is constantly sexualized in the rest of the game. Wtf
Damn i really like Bebe i found him enjoyable
Yes, is SL is weird af and sometimes pointless but i have fun and he looks and acts like a nice friend i like Bebe a lot
The Death Arcana in p4 is also one of my favorites, her story is really sad and touching, i personally feel that horrible feeling of someone forgotting about you and its really paintful so at least to me she is one of the best
Bruh poor Ohya, man...i think she had a pretty damn good social link, especially because she felt kind of...you know, "canon" and relevant to the main plot. I really like her being the informant for the thieves for Kaneshiro, being interested in the Madarame case and directly involved with the Shido stuff. She just fits in.
I was thinking Makoto's social link would be on this list, actually. You don't do anything but meddle in the affairs (literally) of a friend of hers in that. It's infuriatingly bad.
I agree she has a place in the story, but liking her is something I can't say I do. Makoto has a horrible social link to be sure, but being main party member heightens you unfairly because of story related development.
@@Tony4You Yeah, that's fair.
Btw. i played through P4 not too long ago and seeing the old lady STILL made me go "huh, a new character?".
Am i her alzheimers husband?
I still like Ohya’s social link and do it. Strangely enough I Max it two times, once in the original and second in Royal. I do agree that it’s not the best and is considered the least liked social link(though I don’t hate it, I don’t hate Chihaya’s either, but her is just frustrating to finish, wanted to say that). Plus you get the second best girl in the social link(first best girl being Igor), Lala Chan.
There is only 2 i really disagree with.
With Hisano I find myself effected more by it because I have dealt with a family member with dementia so it rings pretty close to home for me.
With Mishima I actually like his character and the arc he goes through. Combine that with him having one of the better confidant abilities I cant help but really enjoy it.
Understandable, Social links greatly vary from person to person. I just hope the video was entertaining. None are worthless, even Ohya
I personally love Hisano’s story, but legit any of the mission based ones (velvet room attendants, Fox of P4, etc) are annoying as well.
Margaret is great to grind, Mind Charge Trumpeter (LV10 Margaret S.Link) hits like a truck, I love to use this Persona. But the fox isn't reward much at difficulty of NPCs searching xD.
I loved the death social link in P4. She reminded me of my own grandparents
Didn't like Marie's social link or character, but honestly loved her dungeon. The whole dungeon forces you to think carefully about whether or not to fight enemies to try and get keys, which provides a challenge lacking in the rest of the game.
Yeah her dungeon is the only reason I don't hate her that much. It led to something great
sadly because of the existance of rise i never ran out of SP in that dungeon, if you math it out you will always have at least 20 percent Sp at the end of a battle because of her overpowered SP recovery and the sp recovery per turn on top of that from the items you get in the dungeon
lmao, i forgot Bebe existed on both the male and female routes
All hail Tanaka.
Tanaka truly is a king
I personally kinda disliked Tanaka….. especially after he called the femc a diamond in the rough, but essentially tells the Malec (stop hanging out with me or people might think we’re gay). I mean yeah his development was pretty good but he just kinda rubs me the wrong way in many cases
@@BleedingDaze01 He's supposed to rub you the wrong way. The point is that he's being immoral. The point of the Link is to correct his morals
@@mannysmith5397 I’m aware he’s supposed to. But I wouldn’t say we “correct” his morals. I think we pretty much encourage him to do one good deed. Then after that his morals pretty much become ambiguous I believe
Nah Maria is based.
Best girl in P4
Untrue, but more power to you. Golden is still great though
SUPER TRUE PREACH
I kinda agree with you about Marie being unnecessarily rude, but that was almost definitely just the point? That’s a common cop out, I know, but Marie’s identity crisis that is present effectively from the start of her social link in conjunction with never interacting with humans means that she’s going to be closed off.
That being said, your criticisms are largely on the dot. I like Marie, but she’s incredibly mean in the first 6(?) social link interactions & the fact that she’s mandatory rubs even me the wrong way. Guess I’m just a sucker for that “friendship wins” vibe her dungeon ending has!
I have a soft spot for those stories too honestly lol, and her dungeon was her highlight. Still disliked her social link though. Hope you enjoyed the video
"Haru is the best girl in persona 5" - They hated him because he spoke the truth
PREACH brother
Persona 4
I can indeed confirm that, as a French person, I don't like Bebe.
Thank you for backing me up. French SMT community unite
In my opinion Marie depends on your likeability about tsundere's. If you don't enjoy that trope you're going to hate it.
That seems reasonable, though I still haven't met someone that likes her
@@Tony4You I have meet people that likes her. And characters like Azuka, Sakura and Taiga are their favorites. However I must admit that the very majority that I found doesn't like her that much.
@@ThyFloorestFloor I'm a big fan of Taiga but I still don't really like Marie a whole lot. She's rather forgettable
I really disagree with the list.
Hisano's social link was one of the best for me as it was personal, tragic and reflected the idea of selfhatred, when someone dear to you passes away when you were unable to help them.
Mishima's social link was full if character development, though I may be biased, as I like his character.
Ohia is not bad. She may look pale in P5, but that's just because the other links are great.
Persona 3 links are the most representing the arcana, but they are kind of boring. The Temperence represents also higher power that guides you, a helping hand. And his aunt, the helping hand, has disappeared, so he is reaching to his uncle. So it is a good representation, but not very entertaining.
So my list would be:
1. Marie (I just don't get really point, maybe I am wrong).
2. Nozomu (I understand the representation if the moon, but it is too chaotic).
3. The Fortune from Persona 3 (don't remember him at all).
4. Shinya (I get it, but it was the weakest from P5 for me).
5. The P4 Sun blushing girl. Ayane? She was plainly boring.
The Star, Strength and Bebe from P3 just weren't memorable for me.
Just shows that tastes differ, huh
Thanks for the comment, and I like your personal list. Everyone has different opinions on the links and I understand not everyone will have the same personal impact. At least we agree on Marie lol
I'm kinda surprised that Nozomi wasn't on the list.
I don't blame you. Nozomi was just so unbelievably weird that is was a standout. It's definitely an honorable mention though
Only have one issue with what you said. For Mishima you specifically don't change his heart. At least not in the normal fashion so I feel that makes his character development a lot more weighty since he changes via his own self reflection
A lot more people seem to like Mishima than I thought, I understand their point of view more now
@@Tony4You I feel like my opinion on it would've been just like yours had the the game forced a change of heart, but the fact that it boils down to Joker telling Mishima "Bro you fucked up" and Mishima going "Damn you right" makes it likeable
You enjoy Mishima’s SL for his character.
I enjoy his SL for his benefits.
We are not the same.
What about Kenji? His social link is shit in persona 3, he just goes on and on about romancing a teacher he's never gonna get.
He may be an accurate portrayal of a teenager, but he is a terrible social link, yeah. Honorable mention for sure
Mishima is still my favourite, idk what you mean with he only changed because you changed his heart, since you didn't change his heart, he changed by himself whcih is integral to his character and the reason why some love him, he was an abused boy who when gaining the power became the abuser, and when you point out how horrible he is and he himself recognises that, he wants you to change his heart, but you refuse and he changes for the better by himself, whcih makes this my favourite non-party confidant in the game
I disagree with Mishima on the list especially since he is an upgraded story over Nozomi.
Mishima and Nozomi both want recognition/be important/be useful.
With Mishima, you see a friend start with good intent as you praise him only to call him out on his bs when he starts stepping out of line where he ultimately changes his own heart.(Using the ‘correct dialogue’) and he is applies what he learnt in his social link into the story where he’s first one to take initiative to support the phantom thieves.
Meanwhile Nozomi, the guy *STEALS* $1000s from a kids tuition, forms a *DEATH CULT* and eating his *LIFE* away.
And the ‘correct dialogue’ is to agree with everything he says and cheer him on as he commits crimes against *HUMANITY* until he *GASLIGHTS* himself into thinking you’re against him even tho you’ve been *AGREEING* with everything he’s saying. Then you have to save him from getting the *BEATING HE DESERVES!* and the reveal is that he did all that because he was jealous of his dead brother…
He even admits he felts no remorse over his brothers death and your final dialogue to him is telling him(paraphrased) “FK UR BROTHER U BE U”
😮”Ye ur right FK MY DEAD BROTHER!”
Then he fks off.
The only slight redemption is in the epilogue where you find out such a train wreck off a kid became a menu adviser and cleaned up his act.(But then you remember he never paid back the money he stole).
But you don’t change Mishima’s heart! You never fight his shadow, you just talk to him. He changes on his own, and I thought that was pretty cool.
Fights can be verbal
@@dream6562 not in this case
Mishima did abuse his position but he learned the error of his ways and managed to change despite the thieves only talking to him and nit changing his heart. I doubt that was an easy thing to do
I actually loved Hisano’s social link. I lost my grandmother to dementia and it’s so layered with how you deal with it. I often found myself wanting my grandma to pass because seeing her constantly forget and grow frustrated with the world around her was heartbreaking and, admittedly, annoying. But so much of my life has changed. I’m not good with words to describe why I think her social link is very fitting to me, even with lack of new scenery. It’s like Hisano is trying to find herself again after coping with the loss of her husband who she only remembers.
I agree about Marie, though. I tried so hard to like her but she wasn’t endearing at all.
Hot take: LaLa Escargot should've been the Devil arcana. A poor queer kid growing up, she got into drag and femme fashion and eventually started using it as a way to avoid facing herself.
8:37 thats the entire problem of persona 5 story. Phantom thieves are changing someone's heart and BOOM now it's a good person that wants attone for their sins wow cool no personal struggle at all.
Except for the Futaba's arc, but thats why her palace is the best in the game.
Pretty much I mean that's why one of the Bad Endings of the game makes sense where they become the power to do whatever they want replacing the villains and why Persona Strikers legitimately feels like a really good spin-off and deals with the characters much differently than this one, I like the confidants a lot because a lot of them solve their problems on their own sure you help them but they figured it out, the game does answer the question where it's like they wanted more Fame than actually doing the right thing.
Queen, Makoto, the student council president, Sae's younger sister and the High Preistess arcana.
Personally, i really like bebe. Maybe it’s just because I’ve only gotten to level 3 on his social link, or maybe it’s just because his voice actor is so good in p3r (first time playing p3)
One thing to note, I don't think that Phantom thieves changed Mishima's heart.
Change of heart revolves around thieves fight the shadow, they just questioned his shadow of his morality and left.
sure, if he keeps doing whatever he was doing afterwards, they'd hop back to mementos and fuck his shadow up, but he managed to change (mostly) on his own.
My least favorite social link has got to be Kenji ( Persona 3 magician link ) .
Also , I'm glad I'm not the only one who despised Marie's poems
Kenji is awful too yeah. for sure an dishonorable mention. Marie overstays her welcome and then some in Golden too
With Marie, I have a feeling there’s always going to be *that* social link/confidant that Atlus is going to slap in there that they KNOW you’re going to hate but NEED to max out if you want the true ending or extra content. Marie in P4G and Akechi in P5R.
Whenever interacting with these two I always feel like I HAVE to talk to them whenever they’re available just so I’m not locked out of the endgame content.
At first I wanted to beat the shit out of her. But surprisingly she grew on me and is one of my favorite characters now.
Nah, akechi is peak.
Bebe, a kid adapting to a new life and ends up caught in family drama after his closest relative passes away. Hisano, a mourning old lady that feels regret for things she said. Marie, a girl with amnesia that is also very important to the plot and is trying to find herself. Mishima, a bullied and abused boy who finally gets the chance to do something fun in his life but ends up spiraling and needs help to be pulled back from that. And Ohya, a reporter trying to find a lead on what happened to her close friend while dealing with an abusive boss and surrounded by shady officials.
You say all of these are bad when they are all actually very nice side plots and three of them actually being tied to the plot. This list is trash. Dude probably thinks that Makoto's in P5's is the best social link out there.
8:40 u didn’t change his heart tho
Interesting list even though I don't agree with all of them. I'm actually surprised to see you're not more popular since this is a really well put together video. As for a list of I think I'd be something like: 5. Mishima from P5; 4. Hidetoshi from P3; 3. Akechi from default P5; 2. Nozomi from P3; 1. Ken from P3P (I know you didn't put exclusive p3p social links on yours but I can't really think of a social link I dislike more)
huh... Hisano is probably my favourite social link in P4...
The story is good, the execution is boring to me. I respect those that like her though
If I'm being honest, I only did Marie's social link for the special dungeon, and even then that was still a let down...
it be like that
dude really put all of the most popular and well liked side social links on the "worst" list, im dead lmao. Marie, Ohya, Hisano, Mishima, and Bebe are all fine. Also imagine calling a lady needing help dealing with her grief is a bad plotline smh
Marie is actually one of my favorites in golden. I don't understand why everyone finds her so unlikable. Speaking personally, I think the moon social link from Persona 3 (can't even remember the guys name) is one of the worst and is more deserving of a place on the list. The rest of the social links I agree with though, but I am somewhat on the fence about Hisano.
I can relate to Marie. I have clinical depression. I find myself in severe mental anguish where I completely shutdown and have to lock myself away for the day. But, I don’t get sad. I get angry. See, rage is a side-emotion of sadness and depression. If you can’t cry out your sadness, it can manifest as rage (fun fact: it is this type of rage that fuels the power rings of the Red Lanterns from DC). I end up accidentally getting angry at and hurting those around me. That’s why I seal myself off until the depression episode subsides in a couple of days at most. So, I get Marie being snippy. I think I have been where she is coming from. Thankfully, I am getting help and she got the help she needed.
Man, Mishima's confidant/sl is one of the best in the series. Good and biggest character development and spectacular reward. And, of course, like many people said, you do not change Mishima's heart you just talk with him.
I didn't like his character at the start, but in the end, he became really good.
I know that this was posted a long time ago, but there is one correction I have for Mishima’s confidant: You don’t change his heart.
Yes, you go to Mementos and find his shadow, but after seeing how pathetic it is you as a group decide to just leave him to stew on your words. He changes himself on his own, not by getting the crap beaten out of him.
This video is redundant as all of them are the worst, just varying degrees of it
One step closer to being a persona hater with this vid
Haru is the best female in P5 and I don't want to hear it from Makoto fans.
If there's one thing I like about Marie, it's that she's cool with polygamy.
Only reason to do Ohya's confidant ia to unlock beelzebub's fusion
Facts
Hisano’s social link was really sweet. I like how it was one of the more unique takes on the death arcana too.
The badum tss with the old guy groan is top tier, keep up the good work man
The best part about Marie is the brick joke in the golden ending where Nanako repaeats her question from really early in the game about the weather reporter, but now shes accidentally right.
Hisano from P4? For me is actually one of the best SLs. The woman is talking how his husband got dementia and how he forgot about her, he was frustrated and feeling guilty for wishing his death to both could be free. Anyone who had a familiar with this disease can relate with it. Not many games talk about something like this.
Not including the glutton king is a sin lol
When I saw Ohya's confidant abilities, I immediately canceled all future plans with her. :/
Glad you made this kind of video I enjoy the Persona series as well but there are definitely ones where I dreaded doing them again (I'm looking at you Moon Arcana-P3) 😂
LOL, he became so much of a meme to me he flipped over to being lovable. Appreciate the kind comment!
Ohya is actually my favorite non-party member confidant in 5 (still playing through Royal). Setting aside the uselessness of her confidant ability (which of course wouldn't have even been an issue in the previous two games) she's the only one I can remember who would have kept fighting her truly righteous fight with or without the intervention of the Phantom Thieves. Hell, everyone's favorite, Kawakami was basically like "Damn, guess I better start hooking" when met with a little adversity. Ohya was just like "yeah, let my asshole boss keep piling more work on me, I'll still pursue my thing". Whether she would have succeeded or not, she wasn't going to give up. Plus just the surface stuff of her being "Drunk Yukiko" full time and her friendship with Lala-chan were a lot of fun. Great character, 10/10.
This is actually a good take, I can see where you're coming from. I may not agree as I had an issue with the tarot representation and overall development, but I get it now.
I was actually thinking of the tarot representation while watching this video and it got me to thinking about "how does materialism manifest in people who have no means" and diving into vices like drinking seems like a logical step. Keep in mind most PEOPLE aren't just total villains even if they would be categorized under one tarot or another. Ohya is a devil but ultimately a good person who let's not kid ourselves, probably would have run way off the rails without Lala chan and maybe the MC. The previous devil ultimately went to work for a Doctors without borders-esque charity. Tanaka seems like a royal prick though. In spite of seemingly moving past his wicked ways in P3 we see him price gouging gas masks during the Inaba fog crisis and later running a black market site. He's kind of the worst and best devil at the same time for how his story evolves but if you thought you made a difference as Makoto or Minato think again.
I mean what can Kawakami do at this point in the SL?She has no other choice rather than continuing being a maid.
@@Tony4You I know I'm late, but I think bein' an adult with such a strong drive already made a low bar for development anyways. The big thing I will say for tarot representation is not just materialism. The Devil Arcana can also represent on a more positive side an extreme dedication to a cause, which Ohya had a really strong dedication to uncovering the truth of the scandal, even continuing to do it no matter how much her boss piles on the quota, even during the time when you go into Mementos, she would've continued and ground herself into the ground because it's the cause she's dedicated herself to without fail, which is part of the Devil from the I understand.
If anyone hates Bebe, I hate them. One of the best social links, don’t @ me
I kind of liked how at least from The Game's perspective after a while The Confidant understand that you are the Phantom thieves, and with him being the person that runs the website he's really and truly the closest person to that at least before Futaba, he thought that he can basically become one of them or at least he was someone who went through a lot of bullying and ridicule and abuse that he had to find out the answer on his own, that's not easy especially when you do feel like you do finally have some amount of power, I actually felt like he grew on his own without really your help, he fits really well in the Persona Strikers game to be completely honest although everyone hates him, because how dare you get corrupted by power even though that's one of the things the characters had to learn when they got high off of their success.
I was shocked when I heard the first one on the list was actually male, I always forgot his social link and I was convinced he is a she
Honestly you'd be forgiven for thinking that. I just learned his full name researching the video lol
5: at least it wasn't the worst social link in the game. I mostly remember his link on the female side and that he wasn't one of the romance options, which I found to be quite amusing.
4: I get why Hisano's social link would be here for you. However I did found this social link to be quite interesting. The arcana isn't fully related to death in a literal sense but it instead its more or less death of one thing and moving on to the next part of the life and I think Hisano captures that well. I maxed this out over the course of a bunch of Sundays as it felt more meaningful in that way. My grandmother has depression so I can relate to how she feels in this social link. I don't find it to be much of an issue on social links that don't have dialogue options that specifically give out points as gives out a variety (and one less thing to consult the guide for since I always do max social link playthroughs). Sorry about the huge point, I had a lot to say here as it is one of my favorites.
3: the Thoth (its pronounciation removes the h and it becomes more uh...that) arcana is one that I am not fully able to understand but as for how I feel about Marie's link. I wasn't that fond of it myself as well the humor used throughout isn't that great (I hated 99% of the comedy in Persona 4's writing) and I didn't really get attached to her and dealing with her struggles. Bits of it felt like it doesn't progress through the link which doesn't help. Marie being a tsundere also doesn't help (most of them aren't written that well) with the issues as I hated bits of her personality.
2: the moon arcana in itself isn't really that well liked, in terms of its meanings and other than Shinjiro (femmc route of p3) no one from this arcana in the p3-p5 era have I actually liked (Ai is close but her first few ranks are rough to get through). I get the point of it as it all relates to Mementos and him handling the fan site. However a problem I have is that Joker very much treats him like a punching bag in the early ranks bug I really did like the concept of this social link so he gets credit for that. At least he doesn't win the honor of the worst Moon social link (P3 whhhyyyy)
1: tbh the best thing that came out of this social link is that I really looked forward to seeing Lala Escargot each and every time I went to the Crossroads bar. A bigger problem is the bonuses that this gives out which is best for Mementos and not much else. A shame that the bonuses could have been so so much better.
edit on 1: Tanaka is indeed the king of the arcana, my favorite social link in Persona 3 :)
I enjoyed the video :)
"Haru is best girl in Persona 5"
A man of culture, I see!
I respect that you think Haru is the best and that Marie sucks, but Mishima and Ohya on the top two spots? Come on, there's worst shit out there
How to enjoy Hisano's social link?
Simple, if you feel it drags too long, go watch the anime.
...
Her social link feels like a limitation of some sort since the "side characters" social link are usually tied in just a single spot, which is damaging what could be a good experience instead.
Fun fact , in the frenche version of persona 3 reload , bebe is called dandy and the french words are replaced with japanese ones, so it's weird to play and do his social link as his voice don't really says what he says in his speech
Honestly, I think Mamoru should've been on the list instead of Bebe. I found Mamoru's to be incredibly uninteresting and the problem that came up kind of resolved itself and would've happened without us. For me, Mamoru was the social link I'd do when no one else was available and I didn't want to talk to Nozomi
Why is Hisano and Mishima here? Story of an old woman sharing her life after a loved ones death is bad storytelling? A boy who is bullied most of his life, meeting people who changed his life but he starts becoming the type of person he hated then realizing his own mistakes and changing for the better is a bad confidant? Kind of a bad list.
Bebe's a bit shallow but social links are meant for you to develop a bond with someone, so simply hanging out and supporting a friend is fine.
I agree with Marie though. I hate that b.
Hey I can see where you're coming from for sure. This list was more or less an avenue for jokes (aside from Marie lol) I hope the video was entertaining nonetheless
Hisano? Really? She is one of my favorite arcana for the exact reasons you pointed. She is a lonely old woman with only her memories to share. She DOESN'T think she deserves your time, she always suggests that she has nothing to offer and that you should do something else, while expecting you to come back. Yu talking to her makes her remember her husband and the grief, and actively remember the negative feelings while hanging out. He is an old lady and acts as one, she just want someone to talk, and Yu can be that person. There's no reward for listening to her other than liking to talk to an old lady. It's the same as saying nanako is bad because she acts as a child. Hisano is an old lady and acts as one, as someone who likes talking with the elder, I love her.
You don’t hurt Bebe he was a passion and a dream
I love the Hisano's social link for personal reasons.
Honestly, any implied canon romance social links in the definitive remakes rub me the wrong way, because Atlus REALLY wants you to pick them to the point where it feels awkward if you don't.
Yukiko and Makoto felt organic because some of their alone time with the protagonists felt organic to the story. Kasumi and Marie on the other hand are interjected where the plot allows, there is something weird about picking your romance option in p5r, only to have Joker's showtime feature him holding Kasumi like his love interest in an action movie. Ironically, I actually really like their characters, but their links feel forced and formulaic for the sake of getting the player to like them more
but on Mishima isnt the point that we didnt actually changed his hearth, and that he was able to change after that scare by himself?
Everyone hates Marie, but I really liked her.
Same
Up next: Top 5 Number 1 Victory Royals
Bruh I forgot almost all of them lmao Good video my dude, keep up the good work!!
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Oh & Haru sucks :)
😠😠😠 Haru is queen 😠😠😠
imagine blocking people for asking them where the art came from.
David with the hot takes 😂🙏
@@morgzana1374 yooo my boy morgz
holy fuck that's a scorching take
You don’t change mishima’s heart? You literally tell him to figure it out on his own instead of changing his heart
This may be a hot take, but I think Mishima and Yoshida are the only good (optional) social links in 5. I think 5’s social links would’ve been a lot better if you encouraged the confidant to rebel themselves instead of just stealing their oppressor’s hearts. It makes them predictable and boring. It’s why most of my bottom 5 are from P5. I feel like they were missed opportunities to align them with the core themes of the game.
The worst SL for me is the devil in Persona 4... Like, what the hell woman? Do you know that Yu is 16? Besides, I'm here for money and little boost of courage so I can by new armor for my homie or he will fucking die and tell my uncle that my sister just wanted to make dinner for him.
There is something very creepy about it, even with the final links to put it into perspective. She's just a weirdo through and through
@@Tony4You yeah. Well, another miss on devil arcana. Lord and savior Tanaka stands undefeated.
worst social links:
basically all the ones in Persona 3 except the Sun and Hanged Man I guess (though the Hermit's ending with Toriyumi is humourous). They were so boring and ugh
Ohya. Her ability is useless and I never found her to be interesting. The P5 confidants weren't great in general honestly. The abilities were nice but they character links were... not good but Ohya was the worst. Its a big problem with P5 in general. It's all Phantom Thieves all the time it was exhausting. No peaks and valleys which makes for poor writing and pacing
Ayane Sun and Daisuke(?) Strength. Needing confidence is relatable but Ayane was just... not the best especially compared to Yumi as the alternate Sun. Similar for Daisuke, he's just so uninteresting compared to Kou. I don't even remember what Daisuke's was about
I think we mostly have the same characters I just would've shuffled them around a bit and removed Bebe from the top five in favor of Nozomi, placing him at number 1, moving Ohya down to number 2, and placing Mishima at number 5.