I’ve already had a few people asking how a gnostic cabal is any different than the church or religion in general. I thought I had adequately expressed this in the essay, but communication at the best of times is really difficult and apparently I didn’t do a very good job. The answer to this comes down to fruits. Pure religion points people to Christ and away from division and enmity. Pure religion also encourages nuanced thinking, despite what anti-religionists will tell you. Black-and-white thinking and enmity are both hallmarks of gnostic thinking.
Hey there friend! My observation that I would also include in these cabals is that if you Don't want alienation then believe what we say. To take away free will
Some just will not hear the explanation no matter how plainly you speak it. I thought you covered this (repeatedly) very well in the video, but thanks for adding in the comment as well
This is happening so rampantly in our own Church. Going to Church, reading your scriptures, listening to the prophet and temple worship is very simple; but it is the best possible thing keeping us aligned with the Lord. My testimony of this has been strengthened in this principle lately. This video comes at a really good time!
@Onandagus Thank for your insight that Ether 3 has so many elements of The Endowment. That has been helpful for me to explain The Holy Temple to other members. Don, what are your thoughts on The Shabaka Stone? I heard about it from Bruce Porter on the Cwic show.
My sister is a flat earther and this described her situation perfectly. She's always been entranced by secret knowledge and has always been open to hearing new and interesting theories about life and the world. So, when a charismatic man met her and talked to her about it, she changed her views rapidly. She went on a mission, wrote a book about the Pearl of Great Price, and used to go to the Temple. Now, she thinks the church is evil. Gnosticism kills testimonies.
We must “feast upon the words of Christ”. The more we pray, study, and go to church, we will have a greater ability to identify doctrine, receive revelation, and come closer to Christ.
I consider myself a non-intellectual intellectual. That means that I don't conform to the culture of intellectualism, but thoroughly enjoy intellectual conversations. I love this video!!!
Thank you for calling out the polygamy deniers, the idea is infectious and it's growing at alarming rates. These members forget that ISREAL the father of the 12 tribes we're supposed to be gathering was a polygamist. Clearly polygamy is the exception, not the rule. As unpleasant as polygamy is, it's part of every Abrahamic religion, and thus is tied directly to Jesus Christ himself. If Jesus is your Savior, then you must accept that Jesus came to save the descendants of a polygamist family, who are his chosen people.
I'm not LDS (just fell down the M*rmon TH-cam rabbit hole out of curiosity) but I really appreciate the core message of what is being communicated. Unquestioning closed mindedness in anything is often dangerous and harmful. We can agree on that. Thanks for making this.
Very well done. I know that I have been guilty of toying with gnostic ideas myself, and interestingly as you pointed out, temple attendance and the "primary answers" pull me out every time. Thanks for making this!
You. Freaking. Rock. Thanks for this video! I've recently been really loving and coming back to the idea of plain and precious truth. If something takes an entire gnostic cabal, mental gymnastics, or general "intellectualism" to justify, I pretty much know right away that it's wrong. I love the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So glad people like you spread these precious truths. Keep fighting for common sense and real truth and light!
Now more than ever have I prioritized receiving personal revelation because I sometimes worry that I'll get sucked into some gnosis cabal. I've found that the roots of keeping the Holy Ghost near come from taking time to be alone with God or constantly learning (reading scriptures, praying, attending church and institute, etc). I've seen some of my own friends fall for these cabals or go anti, now is the time to keep the truth close to you and the Holy Ghost even closer. Great video btw
Recently learned that the mom of a friend of mine is a huge proponent of the Joseph Smith/Polygamy cabal. This video is a great explanation of the dangers of that kind of thinking. Thank you for the effort you put into this video.
This. Oh. My. Gosh. This is exactly why I left a faithful discord server. Other people’s intellectualism over certain topics is what drove me away from being a moderator there. Too many people buying into too many scholarly ideas. I think people are also conflating the religion of ancient Israel with the one we practice now, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. It has the same principles, yes, but our worship is nothing like theirs due to the difference of culture, and it’s because of certain people’s attitudes over it that I think that them staying separate is a very good thing. People can talk about how cool certain discoveries are all the time, but when other people start taking those discoveries and replacing their own religion with those discoveries is where I draw the line. I’m so frikking glad that you’re calling this out. This is _exactly_ what they need.
2 Nephi 9:28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. 29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God. 30 But wo unto the rich, who are rich as to the things of the world. For because they are rich they despise the poor, and they persecute the meek, and their hearts are upon their treasures; wherefore, their treasure is their god. And behold, their treasure shall perish with them also.
Makes sense, the channel gospel lessons somewhat taught me a similar idea with his second coming discussion videos that are on a recent theory like the April 8th eclipse or Ezra's Eagle where he goes into the reasons people believe the theory and it starts to sound plausible but then he shows quotes from scripture and prophets and it's like "oh okay yk what i see that those theories were just wild speculation now." Learning that general idea is pretty helpful because there's some lds apologetic channels that get way too speculative on some topics, and it helps me to find which people are more reliable scholars than others.
I feel that. Though I’m making the case that this goes beyond mere speculation. Once a person is bought into a speculation so much that it becomes tribal, that’s where gnosis lives. Speculation has its own issues but it doesn’t always turn into this.
@@ohheytherefriendYes, speculation is fun! I like to speculate… with a healthy dose of reminders that it’s just speculation, and usually isn’t crucial to my eternal salvation. As long as we stay grounded in the plain and precious truths of the gospel, a little speculation is fine.
Am glad I'm non-intellectual and I can still "make it" even if I'm a dim-wit. Isaiah 35: 8-10. I cannot imagine a God requiring people to be smart intellectuals in order to "make it." That is ine reason why I find truth. " _..by the power of The Holy Ghost_" so compelling.
This video is great! Now I know the secret truth and it creates enmity against . . . Nobody. I have to stay true, serve, improve, follow Christ and love others, even their shortcomings? Oh, so it's not a secret? Well it was a seriously well done video. Share it, we need more like this!
If you want to form a spiritual and intellectual immunity to any gnostic ideas, remember that they say all material reality and the Creator of them are bad automatically. This is a mechanism to erode the victims' sense making abilities, thus creating a perverse direction of their sense of 'Should'. God made Heaven and Earth and it was Good! We were made in God's image, male and female! Christ died and rose again In The Flesh, for Heaven and Earth met!
Great vid. However, I’ve now started a cabal of secret knowledge that declares that the text of this is written by Dan Ellsworth. We shun non believers.
Pure religion certainly does have many hidden truths, mysteries, that we are commanded to seek out and treasure. I see a key difference as shown by the Brethren over the years that there is generally a sense of reverence, respect, and restraint in divulging sacred knowledge. Gnostic beliefs, however, have a quality of perverse pleasure in deconstructing others’ previously held views. Admittedly, it *is* cool when my views are challenged in interesting ways, but being challenged by new information is not the same as being challenged by truth.
8:23 I’m going to assume you are not saying this on behalf of Mormons or the church. This would be openly admitting that they are politically polarizing.
I've been struggling with the idea of how we view the Godhead recently. Can someone here explain in the BoM, when it says "The Lord spake unto me" or "The Lord God saith", who is the speaker? Also, "We believe in 3 separate beings". I know that Jesus Christ is The Son of God, I know that God is our Heavenly Father, and I know The Holy Spirit is another separate personage. What I struggle with is the language used in the BoM and the Bible. Here is an example, using the article of faith as a lens, how am I supposed to view this: "12 And it came to pass that he cried mightily unto The Lord all that day; and behold, the voice of The Lord came unto him, saying: 13 Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I shall into the world, to show unto the world that I will fulfil all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets. 14 Behold, I come unto my own to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son - of the Father because of me, and and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given". 3 Nephi 1: 12-14. specifically, what does He mean when He speaks: "The Father because of me"? Is that because of Jesus Christ's natural state of divinity and knowing the will of the Father? Other denominations of Christianity will look at that and say, "The will of the Father because Jesus Christ is God in human form". That state would make sense using a trinity lens. I want to believe that the Godhead is made up of 3 separate personages, the thing stopping me is the scriptural evidence (rather the phrasing in the scriptures) that they (the Godhead) are in fact 3 separate beings.
Jesus is God, he's just not God the Father. 99% of references to God, the Lord or the Almighty are references to Jehovah who is God the Son of God the most high. Jesus is the father of our salvation, so in a way Jesus is also our father, but Heavenly Father is the father of our spirit, and your earthly father is the father of your body. Your earth dad isn't Heavenly Father, and you aren't your dad. Jesus is God (YHWH or Jehovah) in human form, so references to God in that sense isn't a claim that Jesus is the Father of our spirit. Hope this helped, I'm not sure if it's exactly what you were asking.
@@hjohnson966 Ok, what if I think about it like this, Jesus is the Creator of Earth, while God, the Eternal Father is the Creator of our Spirit? 2 separate beings, both with flesh and blood, but Jesus Christ is the one being referenced the most since he is the creator of Heaven and Earth?
@@muiai5285that’s how I’ve come to think of it, as well. It helps me understand better throughout the scriptures. I’ve also come to understand the references to God in the Old Testament and prior to 3 Nephi are to Jehovah, or Jesus before his birth, whereas when He performs His Atonement, Jesus became our advocate and mediator with the Father, so now we pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. I hope some of this helps your perspective as well!
God is the Father of our spirits, but when we are baptized, after we have fallen, and become children of the devil, we become the sons (adopted by Jesus through his atonement). of The Son.
The English language has rules in place so that misunderstandings, such as this, are minimized. One of these rules includes the usage of punctuation. When we read a verse, including the fourteenth verse of the first chapter of the third book of Nephi, we can draw some conclusions; we can break apart the thoughts using the punctuation marks: “Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son- of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given. When we break the verse down in this way, we can see all the ideas being relayed to us. In this instance “of the Father because of me” relates to “and to do the will.” Both the Father and the Son, being united in their will, have different ways of accomplishing it: the Father “because of me,” and the Savior, Jesus Christ, who is speaking, “because of my flesh.” Thus we get the complete idea “I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son-of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh.” You may find some benefit in reading older, pre-1900, grammar books, as many older texts: scripture, as well as other historical documents and accounts, were written by highly educated people and are very grammatically inclined. It is also important to note, that while there are rules for writing, how an individual perceives them is based on their own understanding and spiritual guidance, I encourage you to continue reading and asking questions to improve your knowledge!
One sincere question though, what distinguishes the church as a whole from gnosticism? I can't help but feel like these ideas could easily justify calling us Gnostic as a whole church.
This is a great question and one I wrestled with as I wrote my essay. The clearest thing I can point to (and did in my video) is the fruits. Like everything else, Satan is very good at counterfeiting truth. But he’s not very good at counterfeiting the fruits. Enmity is a very clear dividing line between gnostic cabals and true pure religion.
Let’s say that you’re right. I don’t begrudge you your belief. The problem with all of this division is that it’s distracting us from being followers of Christ. In my opinion, division has no place in a Christ-centered life. I genuinely wish you well.
@@kristinecase8602 I recommend looking up Don Bradley - to say that he has done a lot of research on this topic would be an understatement. He's probably more versed in early church polygamy than anyone else. I highly recommend looking into some of his findings, very interesting and honestly - in my experience - faith promoting stuff.
So, you addressed this in the video, but there's still a question I have about how you distinguish between true religion and gnostic cabals. It seems that the way you define "gnostic cabal" could have included the early restored church, since much of our doctrine countered traditional Christian concepts and we recruited heavily. The same can be said for many of the different branches of Christianity. I share this concern because I foresee a potential rebuttal too this video by critics being, "Well, if we are a gnostic cabal then you are too!" How do you distinguish this?
I have only one issue with the video; the polygamy example. Members have to choose which prophet lied, Smith (hiding it from his wife and members) or Young, about polygamy. It’s interesting that Emma, up to her death, maintained Joseph never practiced polygamy. If members can stay true and faithful to the church believing Joseph lied, they can also be true and faithful believing Young lied.
Nah, not really a problem. I know Don Bradley spoke about it in one of his interviews (I've seen several, but don't recall which. Try the Stephen Jones one first).
You, just like most other people who try to discredit polygamy denial, generalize the group as a whole. There is certainly a spectrum within that movement. Do you also realize that some of the key historians in this space are starting recognize that there are many parts of the polygamy narrative that do need to be revisited, because they don’t hold up to scrutiny?
Like Cheryl Bruno? Yes, but she also said she thinks that Joseph Smith did practice polygamy. It's always good to re-examine the evidence we have. The author of this essay is correct about the main group of polygamy deniers. You may not hold their exact views but his point still applies. The end fruit of polygamy deniers that go on to denounce other important things like temples is division and apostacy.
I probably could have elaborated a bit more. My point was less about the various theories around polygamy and more around the enmity that forms within certain gnostic ideas. Of course not everyone who holds to that theory is aligning themselves with a cabal. But as soon as someone starts villainizing others, that’s where the line gets crossed. I think there’s always room for respectful and faith-affirming discussion around various topics, where people can disagree and still consider each other friends.
@@cubmaster1028 Yes Cheryl Bruno, Todd Compton, Don Bradley, Patrick Mason. They are still hold that Joseph did practice polygamy but agree that there are key parts of the narrative that need to be revisited and potentially updated. I have personally studied all sides of this argument and I’m not convinced yet either way. I still hold to the restoration, temples, the Book of Mormon etc but I do not believe in polygamy. I think it is possible that it will go the way of the priesthood ban at some point.
I’ve already had a few people asking how a gnostic cabal is any different than the church or religion in general. I thought I had adequately expressed this in the essay, but communication at the best of times is really difficult and apparently I didn’t do a very good job. The answer to this comes down to fruits. Pure religion points people to Christ and away from division and enmity. Pure religion also encourages nuanced thinking, despite what anti-religionists will tell you. Black-and-white thinking and enmity are both hallmarks of gnostic thinking.
Hey there friend! My observation that I would also include in these cabals is that if you Don't want alienation then believe what we say. To take away free will
Some just will not hear the explanation no matter how plainly you speak it.
I thought you covered this (repeatedly) very well in the video, but thanks for adding in the comment as well
This is happening so rampantly in our own Church. Going to Church, reading your scriptures, listening to the prophet and temple worship is very simple; but it is the best possible thing keeping us aligned with the Lord. My testimony of this has been strengthened in this principle lately. This video comes at a really good time!
@@Onandagus and your testimony has helped many of us. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
@Onandagus
Thank for your insight that Ether 3 has so many elements of The Endowment. That has been helpful for me to explain The Holy Temple to other members.
Don, what are your thoughts on The Shabaka Stone? I heard about it from Bruce Porter on the Cwic show.
New LDS apologetics DLC just dropped!
My sister is a flat earther and this described her situation perfectly. She's always been entranced by secret knowledge and has always been open to hearing new and interesting theories about life and the world. So, when a charismatic man met her and talked to her about it, she changed her views rapidly.
She went on a mission, wrote a book about the Pearl of Great Price, and used to go to the Temple. Now, she thinks the church is evil.
Gnosticism kills testimonies.
"Wake up, bro. HT,F just posted."
We must “feast upon the words of Christ”. The more we pray, study, and go to church, we will have a greater ability to identify doctrine, receive revelation, and come closer to Christ.
I consider myself a non-intellectual intellectual. That means that I don't conform to the culture of intellectualism, but thoroughly enjoy intellectual conversations. I love this video!!!
Thank you for calling out the polygamy deniers, the idea is infectious and it's growing at alarming rates.
These members forget that ISREAL the father of the 12 tribes we're supposed to be gathering was a polygamist. Clearly polygamy is the exception, not the rule. As unpleasant as polygamy is, it's part of every Abrahamic religion, and thus is tied directly to Jesus Christ himself. If Jesus is your Savior, then you must accept that Jesus came to save the descendants of a polygamist family, who are his chosen people.
I'm not LDS (just fell down the M*rmon TH-cam rabbit hole out of curiosity) but I really appreciate the core message of what is being communicated. Unquestioning closed mindedness in anything is often dangerous and harmful. We can agree on that. Thanks for making this.
I love the perspective. Thanks for the comment.
Take notes, the gnostics are running amok in the world and they have no plans on stopping until they get what they want.
I’m someone who is naturally very intellectual. I needed to hear this! Thank you very much for warning me about this friend.
Very well done. I know that I have been guilty of toying with gnostic ideas myself, and interestingly as you pointed out, temple attendance and the "primary answers" pull me out every time. Thanks for making this!
Same here. I wrote this for myself as much as anyone. Nice to know we’re in the same boat.
I wish I had some profound response to the genius of this video. All I can say is well done. This is absolute truth.
This channel has me MORE!!!ing harder than Kylo Ren at a Luke Skywalker Slideshow
Mormonism is definitely true
You. Freaking. Rock. Thanks for this video! I've recently been really loving and coming back to the idea of plain and precious truth. If something takes an entire gnostic cabal, mental gymnastics, or general "intellectualism" to justify, I pretty much know right away that it's wrong. I love the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So glad people like you spread these precious truths. Keep fighting for common sense and real truth and light!
I. LOVE. THIS. Excellent work!
I love your profile picture. Brigham young with sunglasses = awesome.
This video just became the basis for a school assignment for my children… that we home school. Thanks for the material.
So well done. Perfectly describe so many truths I’ve experienced and witnessed in others. Thank you
I told Ward Radio that you just released this!
I saw that and responded there.
Heck yeah, can't wait to see their reaction
Now more than ever have I prioritized receiving personal revelation because I sometimes worry that I'll get sucked into some gnosis cabal. I've found that the roots of keeping the Holy Ghost near come from taking time to be alone with God or constantly learning (reading scriptures, praying, attending church and institute, etc). I've seen some of my own friends fall for these cabals or go anti, now is the time to keep the truth close to you and the Holy Ghost even closer. Great video btw
Recently learned that the mom of a friend of mine is a huge proponent of the Joseph Smith/Polygamy cabal. This video is a great explanation of the dangers of that kind of thinking. Thank you for the effort you put into this video.
This. Oh. My. Gosh. This is exactly why I left a faithful discord server. Other people’s intellectualism over certain topics is what drove me away from being a moderator there. Too many people buying into too many scholarly ideas. I think people are also conflating the religion of ancient Israel with the one we practice now, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. It has the same principles, yes, but our worship is nothing like theirs due to the difference of culture, and it’s because of certain people’s attitudes over it that I think that them staying separate is a very good thing. People can talk about how cool certain discoveries are all the time, but when other people start taking those discoveries and replacing their own religion with those discoveries is where I draw the line. I’m so frikking glad that you’re calling this out. This is _exactly_ what they need.
Yeah this channel is gonna grow fast
Aren't you coming across as an LDS intellectual yourself with this video?
Maybe, but I’m not condemning intellectuals. Only gnostic ideas.
2 Nephi 9:28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. 29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God. 30 But wo unto the rich, who are rich as to the things of the world. For because they are rich they despise the poor, and they persecute the meek, and their hearts are upon their treasures; wherefore, their treasure is their god. And behold, their treasure shall perish with them also.
I will go and do the things the Lord commands!! Not what my aunts boyfriend commands! Such a good video!
Makes sense, the channel gospel lessons somewhat taught me a similar idea with his second coming discussion videos that are on a recent theory like the April 8th eclipse or Ezra's Eagle where he goes into the reasons people believe the theory and it starts to sound plausible but then he shows quotes from scripture and prophets and it's like "oh okay yk what i see that those theories were just wild speculation now." Learning that general idea is pretty helpful because there's some lds apologetic channels that get way too speculative on some topics, and it helps me to find which people are more reliable scholars than others.
I feel that. Though I’m making the case that this goes beyond mere speculation. Once a person is bought into a speculation so much that it becomes tribal, that’s where gnosis lives. Speculation has its own issues but it doesn’t always turn into this.
@@ohheytherefriendYes, speculation is fun! I like to speculate… with a healthy dose of reminders that it’s just speculation, and usually isn’t crucial to my eternal salvation. As long as we stay grounded in the plain and precious truths of the gospel, a little speculation is fine.
This is outstanding. Gnostic apostasy is so pervasive.
Great content, I have been studying pride and reading President Bensons talk on Pride, this video has been a great resource to add to my studying 📚
Am glad I'm non-intellectual and I can still "make it" even if I'm a dim-wit.
Isaiah 35: 8-10.
I cannot imagine a God requiring people to be smart intellectuals in order to "make it." That is ine reason why I find truth. " _..by the power of The Holy Ghost_" so compelling.
This video is great! Now I know the secret truth and it creates enmity against . . . Nobody. I have to stay true, serve, improve, follow Christ and love others, even their shortcomings? Oh, so it's not a secret? Well it was a seriously well done video. Share it, we need more like this!
Thank You Lego, I appreciate it!
Nope. Try again.
If you want to form a spiritual and intellectual immunity to any gnostic ideas, remember that they say all material reality and the Creator of them are bad automatically. This is a mechanism to erode the victims' sense making abilities, thus creating a perverse direction of their sense of 'Should'.
God made Heaven and Earth and it was Good!
We were made in God's image, male and female!
Christ died and rose again In The Flesh, for Heaven and Earth met!
Nehemiah 5:7 Jeremiah 4:10 if you see it you can change your mindset. Genesis 3:13
Nicely done!
Great vid. However, I’ve now started a cabal of secret knowledge that declares that the text of this is written by Dan Ellsworth. We shun non believers.
Pure religion certainly does have many hidden truths, mysteries, that we are commanded to seek out and treasure. I see a key difference as shown by the Brethren over the years that there is generally a sense of reverence, respect, and restraint in divulging sacred knowledge. Gnostic beliefs, however, have a quality of perverse pleasure in deconstructing others’ previously held views. Admittedly, it *is* cool when my views are challenged in interesting ways, but being challenged by new information is not the same as being challenged by truth.
Well said!
Amen. 🕊️
Could you get into more specific examples of who you would say falls into a gnostic cabal? (I mean, yeah… names and why you think they fall into that)
If you want to recognize a gnostic cabal, just look for groups of people who are demonizing others. Chances are, it’s a cabal.
Great. Now I need to try to silence you because you go against my gnosis 😂
8:23 I’m going to assume you are not saying this on behalf of Mormons or the church. This would be openly admitting that they are politically polarizing.
I've been struggling with the idea of how we view the Godhead recently. Can someone here explain in the BoM, when it says "The Lord spake unto me" or "The Lord God saith", who is the speaker? Also, "We believe in 3 separate beings". I know that Jesus Christ is The Son of God, I know that God is our Heavenly Father, and I know The Holy Spirit is another separate personage. What I struggle with is the language used in the BoM and the Bible. Here is an example, using the article of faith as a lens, how am I supposed to view this:
"12 And it came to pass that he cried mightily unto The Lord all that day; and behold, the voice of The Lord came unto him, saying:
13 Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I shall into the world, to show unto the world that I will fulfil all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets.
14 Behold, I come unto my own to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son - of the Father because of me, and and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given". 3 Nephi 1: 12-14.
specifically, what does He mean when He speaks: "The Father because of me"? Is that because of Jesus Christ's natural state of divinity and knowing the will of the Father? Other denominations of Christianity will look at that and say, "The will of the Father because Jesus Christ is God in human form". That state would make sense using a trinity lens. I want to believe that the Godhead is made up of 3 separate personages, the thing stopping me is the scriptural evidence (rather the phrasing in the scriptures) that they (the Godhead) are in fact 3 separate beings.
Jesus is God, he's just not God the Father. 99% of references to God, the Lord or the Almighty are references to Jehovah who is God the Son of God the most high.
Jesus is the father of our salvation, so in a way Jesus is also our father, but Heavenly Father is the father of our spirit, and your earthly father is the father of your body. Your earth dad isn't Heavenly Father, and you aren't your dad.
Jesus is God (YHWH or Jehovah) in human form, so references to God in that sense isn't a claim that Jesus is the Father of our spirit.
Hope this helped, I'm not sure if it's exactly what you were asking.
@@hjohnson966 Ok, what if I think about it like this, Jesus is the Creator of Earth, while God, the Eternal Father is the Creator of our Spirit? 2 separate beings, both with flesh and blood, but Jesus Christ is the one being referenced the most since he is the creator of Heaven and Earth?
@@muiai5285that’s how I’ve come to think of it, as well. It helps me understand better throughout the scriptures. I’ve also come to understand the references to God in the Old Testament and prior to 3 Nephi are to Jehovah, or Jesus before his birth, whereas when He performs His Atonement, Jesus became our advocate and mediator with the Father, so now we pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. I hope some of this helps your perspective as well!
God is the Father of our spirits, but when we are baptized, after we have fallen, and become children of the devil, we become the sons (adopted by Jesus through his atonement). of The Son.
The English language has rules in place so that misunderstandings, such as this, are minimized. One of these rules includes the usage of punctuation. When we read a verse, including the fourteenth verse of the first chapter of the third book of Nephi, we can draw some conclusions; we can break apart the thoughts using the punctuation marks:
“Behold,
I come unto my own,
to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world,
and to do the will,
both of the Father and of the Son-
of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh.
And behold,
the time is at hand,
and this night shall the sign be given.
When we break the verse down in this way, we can see all the ideas being relayed to us. In this instance “of the Father because of me” relates to “and to do the will.” Both the Father and the Son, being united in their will, have different ways of accomplishing it: the Father “because of me,” and the Savior, Jesus Christ, who is speaking, “because of my flesh.”
Thus we get the complete idea “I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son-of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh.”
You may find some benefit in reading older, pre-1900, grammar books, as many older texts: scripture, as well as other historical documents and accounts, were written by highly educated people and are very grammatically inclined. It is also important to note, that while there are rules for writing, how an individual perceives them is based on their own understanding and spiritual guidance, I encourage you to continue reading and asking questions to improve your knowledge!
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That notification though 🤭😜❤️🔥
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One sincere question though, what distinguishes the church as a whole from gnosticism? I can't help but feel like these ideas could easily justify calling us Gnostic as a whole church.
This is a great question and one I wrestled with as I wrote my essay. The clearest thing I can point to (and did in my video) is the fruits. Like everything else, Satan is very good at counterfeiting truth. But he’s not very good at counterfeiting the fruits. Enmity is a very clear dividing line between gnostic cabals and true pure religion.
@@ohheytherefriend That makes sense, thanks! Reminds me of how the apostles used to warn about gospel hobbies.
Yo
Yo.
@@ohheytherefriend Yo
What denomination are you?
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Too bad you don’t understand that JS was not a polygamist. I will never listen to another video you make.
Let’s say that you’re right. I don’t begrudge you your belief. The problem with all of this division is that it’s distracting us from being followers of Christ. In my opinion, division has no place in a Christ-centered life. I genuinely wish you well.
@@kristinecase8602 I recommend looking up Don Bradley - to say that he has done a lot of research on this topic would be an understatement. He's probably more versed in early church polygamy than anyone else. I highly recommend looking into some of his findings, very interesting and honestly - in my experience - faith promoting stuff.
I have a genuine question, you say the fruits of the church are good - what about the bad fruits? Do you not see any?
I see lots of bad fruit from members of all churches. God trusts humans to do His work and we don’t always do it well.
12:21 couldn't the LDS church be an example of Gnostic pride? There are four stages including discovery, testing, purification, and recruiting?
Check out my pinned comment.
So, you addressed this in the video, but there's still a question I have about how you distinguish between true religion and gnostic cabals. It seems that the way you define "gnostic cabal" could have included the early restored church, since much of our doctrine countered traditional Christian concepts and we recruited heavily. The same can be said for many of the different branches of Christianity. I share this concern because I foresee a potential rebuttal too this video by critics being, "Well, if we are a gnostic cabal then you are too!" How do you distinguish this?
I just responded to this question in a pinned comment. It’s a great question and I appreciate you asking it.
This may all be true but I still think the moon landings were a hoax. 😂
Lol
I have only one issue with the video; the polygamy example. Members have to choose which prophet lied, Smith (hiding it from his wife and members) or Young, about polygamy. It’s interesting that Emma, up to her death, maintained Joseph never practiced polygamy. If members can stay true and faithful to the church believing Joseph lied, they can also be true and faithful believing Young lied.
Nah, not really a problem. I know Don Bradley spoke about it in one of his interviews (I've seen several, but don't recall which. Try the Stephen Jones one first).
You, just like most other people who try to discredit polygamy denial, generalize the group as a whole. There is certainly a spectrum within that movement. Do you also realize that some of the key historians in this space are starting recognize that there are many parts of the polygamy narrative that do need to be revisited, because they don’t hold up to scrutiny?
Before we proceed, in what ways are you willing to admit what you know could be wrong? (not saying it is, just how it could be)
Like Cheryl Bruno? Yes, but she also said she thinks that Joseph Smith did practice polygamy. It's always good to re-examine the evidence we have. The author of this essay is correct about the main group of polygamy deniers. You may not hold their exact views but his point still applies. The end fruit of polygamy deniers that go on to denounce other important things like temples is division and apostacy.
I probably could have elaborated a bit more. My point was less about the various theories around polygamy and more around the enmity that forms within certain gnostic ideas. Of course not everyone who holds to that theory is aligning themselves with a cabal. But as soon as someone starts villainizing others, that’s where the line gets crossed. I think there’s always room for respectful and faith-affirming discussion around various topics, where people can disagree and still consider each other friends.
@@cubmaster1028 Yes Cheryl Bruno, Todd Compton, Don Bradley, Patrick Mason. They are still hold that Joseph did practice polygamy but agree that there are key parts of the narrative that need to be revisited and potentially updated. I have personally studied all sides of this argument and I’m not convinced yet either way. I still hold to the restoration, temples, the Book of Mormon etc but I do not believe in polygamy. I think it is possible that it will go the way of the priesthood ban at some point.
@@ohheytherefriend Thank you for clarifying