one thing to remember with plastic inserts is that they will have more friction at the start since they are unused so it may be a source of friction but over time should be smoothened out due to use
using nylocks as the initial nut instead of keps is an interesting choice. The little washer teeth on keps can actually dig into c-channel when tightened properly, locking the screw more effectively than a nylock, alongside the keps being a good bit more space efficient, making it easier to make 3-hole gaps for your drivetrain. ❤
@@DaMedicalKraken keps are NOT more secure than nylocks. The teeth help and make Leo’s better than straight hex but that’s it. In somewhere with plenty of vibration like a drive they will come loose eventually. Doesn’t matter how hard you tighten them, you’re only buying time. They are more space decent though, yes.
@@9MotorGangthis is not really true, properly tightened keps nuts can stay tightened for basically the entire lifespan of a robot if you don't touch them. Keps nuts are a little more preferable in this implementation of a dead-axle since the teeth of a keps nut dig into the c channel and constrain the rotation of the screw. Meanwhile, lock nuts don't do this and can still allow the screw to rotate about the hole it's mounted onto even when tightened sufficiently.
this is where we bought them from, but the items seemed to have changed: www.robosource.net/robot-parts/screws-hardware/star-drive-screws-steel/color-coded-star-drive-screws/423-color-coded-star-drive-screws-variety-pack?search_query=Color+Coded+Star+Drive+Screws+2%2C200+Piece+Variety+Pack&results=296
They have the small machine gears on the motor axles. Our team only has the thick gears so we had to use 2.5inch screws with 3.25inch total wheelbase width (we had to screw out 16 screw holes so it would work 😂)
Say i needed some spacing between the gear and the wheel would i just add spacers or something else. And if you were to add a c channel on the other side what would you use to secure the screw
Just add spacers on the screws between the wheel and gear. The c channel isn't to secure, but to keep the screwjoint level with the ground and not canti.
@@ejcustoms2698 Explanation of 3 hole gap 450 2.75: th-cam.com/video/y7m_CYlB7S4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZcIovBHmoQf-2r4X 4 holes gap 450 2.75: th-cam.com/video/H2M8oefr3gU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bv1fETQx9bOqRLGt
www.robosource.net/robot-parts/screws-hardware/star-drive-screws-steel/color-coded-star-drive-screws/550-color-coded-star-drive-screws-2250?search_query=2.25+inch+screws&results=216 these don't have a shoulder. Not sure were I got the ones with a shoulder
Negative Nelly here (disregard as you see fit), using needle nose pliers on a nut is not a recipe that I would ever associate with "nice and tight". Also, I have serious doubts about the longevity of running any bearing surface on threads. That is all, carry on!
Tight is tight imo with nylocks. They aren't coming loose unless you're doing something crazy. And what do you mean by running a bearing surface on threads? If you're referring to running a brass insert on the screw as a joint, that is something that teams in VRC have been doing for years.
@@9MotorGang The only way you will ever hit a torque spec using needle nose pliers on a hex nut is by sheer luck - if even then. And re: brass on screw threads for bearing surfaces, a rapid prototype designed just to make it through a competition is not a case for the longevity of a bearing... my sole point. Bailing wire and bubble gum may get you through in a moment of need, doesn't make them good engineering principles.
@@phrozenwun This design was given for teams competing in the Vex Robotics Competition. The robots in this competition typically have a lifespan of no more than 6 months and aren't very powerful. They only weigh about 15 pounds and have a maximum power output of 88 watts. Since this design uses nylock hex nuts instead of regular hex nuts, it doesn't matter if you hit the torque spec. I have never seen nylock nuts come undone on a competition robot. Additionally, there are also rules regarding part legality in the competition, and the legal axles and bearings are not very good. The technique of using screw joints in VRC isn't something uncommon and done consistently by teams who have won vex worlds.
Evan being weird and using Nylocks as the base nut instead of a keps (Yes I know that keps will eventually come loose but y'know, most people use keps)
one thing to remember with plastic inserts is that they will have more friction at the start since they are unused so it may be a source of friction but over time should be smoothened out due to use
Plastic inserts definitely work. Personally, I just prefer the brass ones due to their consistency.
@@9MotorGang yea just giving out a word of advice if people are seeing alot of friction for no reason
@@haydenford3794 thanks for the tip we will be sure to wear down our inserts before we do autons. we only rly have plastic inserts here in NZ
@@Diam0nder glad to help
I just drill them out if I have to use them, otherwise I just use the brass inserte
using nylocks as the initial nut instead of keps is an interesting choice. The little washer teeth on keps can actually dig into c-channel when tightened properly, locking the screw more effectively than a nylock, alongside the keps being a good bit more space efficient, making it easier to make 3-hole gaps for your drivetrain. ❤
@@DaMedicalKraken keps are NOT more secure than nylocks. The teeth help and make Leo’s better than straight hex but that’s it. In somewhere with plenty of vibration like a drive they will come loose eventually. Doesn’t matter how hard you tighten them, you’re only buying time. They are more space decent though, yes.
@@9MotorGangthis is not really true, properly tightened keps nuts can stay tightened for basically the entire lifespan of a robot if you don't touch them. Keps nuts are a little more preferable in this implementation of a dead-axle since the teeth of a keps nut dig into the c channel and constrain the rotation of the screw. Meanwhile, lock nuts don't do this and can still allow the screw to rotate about the hole it's mounted onto even when tightened sufficiently.
@@ali-1353 thanks ali!
Do any manufacturers make those 2.25 inch shoulder screws anymore? I’ve been hunting and haven’t been able to find any
this is where we bought them from, but the items seemed to have changed: www.robosource.net/robot-parts/screws-hardware/star-drive-screws-steel/color-coded-star-drive-screws/423-color-coded-star-drive-screws-variety-pack?search_query=Color+Coded+Star+Drive+Screws+2%2C200+Piece+Variety+Pack&results=296
how would u do a drive train then? cause the gear is not accessible, isnt the omni wheel in the way of the gear?
Take a look at the drivebases in this video or in the VexU explanation video. These drives use this same screw joint technique.
They have the small machine gears on the motor axles. Our team only has the thick gears so we had to use 2.5inch screws with 3.25inch total wheelbase width (we had to screw out 16 screw holes so it would work 😂)
and i found this 6 hours into failing to build my first vrc dt
@@cody8743 I will probably end up putting out a full drivetrain tutorial sometime soon.
Say i needed some spacing between the gear and the wheel would i just add spacers or something else. And if you were to add a c channel on the other side what would you use to secure the screw
Just add spacers on the screws between the wheel and gear. The c channel isn't to secure, but to keep the screwjoint level with the ground and not canti.
@@9MotorGang One more thing should i build the screw joint first or the structure
Can someone let me know what the spacing would be on a 4 hole gap with 2.75 450rpm pls?
@@ejcustoms2698
Explanation of 3 hole gap 450 2.75: th-cam.com/video/y7m_CYlB7S4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZcIovBHmoQf-2r4X
4 holes gap 450 2.75: th-cam.com/video/H2M8oefr3gU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bv1fETQx9bOqRLGt
Random but is there a reason you put your screws that connected the wheel to the gear in the corner wider holes
Not really. Probably better to use the middle hole.
Yes I would recommend the middle holes too
Do you have a link to the 2.25” shoulder screws?
I’m pretty sure robosource no longer makes them
www.robosource.net/robot-parts/screws-hardware/star-drive-screws-steel/color-coded-star-drive-screws/550-color-coded-star-drive-screws-2250?search_query=2.25+inch+screws&results=216 these don't have a shoulder. Not sure were I got the ones with a shoulder
where can you find the brass insert the only one i can find is under high strength shafts and hardware
@@haydenford3794 those are the ones High Strength Shaft Adapter ((#8 Round Bore, 1/2" Long) (20-Pack)). They are currently out of stock however.
@@9MotorGang thanks for the clarification I was not sure due to them being labeled high strength
@@haydenford3794 its cause the inserts can only go into a hole designed for a HS shaft.
Thank u，I tried this way and the screw blended 3 weeks later ,maybe my robot is too heavy, how can I solve this problem
@@刘明-v1w how much did the robot weight and were the wheels cantilever or supported on the other side?
THAT IS CRAZY I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
Does anyone know where I can find the brass inserts
They are currently out of stock: www.vexrobotics.com/hs-hardware.html
Negative Nelly here (disregard as you see fit), using needle nose pliers on a nut is not a recipe that I would ever associate with "nice and tight". Also, I have serious doubts about the longevity of running any bearing surface on threads. That is all, carry on!
Tight is tight imo with nylocks. They aren't coming loose unless you're doing something crazy. And what do you mean by running a bearing surface on threads? If you're referring to running a brass insert on the screw as a joint, that is something that teams in VRC have been doing for years.
@@9MotorGang The only way you will ever hit a torque spec using needle nose pliers on a hex nut is by sheer luck - if even then. And re: brass on screw threads for bearing surfaces, a rapid prototype designed just to make it through a competition is not a case for the longevity of a bearing... my sole point. Bailing wire and bubble gum may get you through in a moment of need, doesn't make them good engineering principles.
@@phrozenwun This design was given for teams competing in the Vex Robotics Competition. The robots in this competition typically have a lifespan of no more than 6 months and aren't very powerful. They only weigh about 15 pounds and have a maximum power output of 88 watts. Since this design uses nylock hex nuts instead of regular hex nuts, it doesn't matter if you hit the torque spec. I have never seen nylock nuts come undone on a competition robot. Additionally, there are also rules regarding part legality in the competition, and the legal axles and bearings are not very good. The technique of using screw joints in VRC isn't something uncommon and done consistently by teams who have won vex worlds.
do people actually rely on a second c-channel to keep their wheels on? that’s terrifying…
I have seen some people do it that way.
now with the shorter nylock you can save mor weight and space
I believe the prototype is already using thin nylocks.
I ❤ screw joints
Wow this is very similar to an axel joint!
💀
Evan being weird and using Nylocks as the base nut instead of a keps (Yes I know that keps will eventually come loose but y'know, most people use keps)
watch R16 5-1 in the engineering division at spin up worlds (we were a potato and got hard carried)
@@9MotorGang nah I do not feel like searching for that
Sew joints op
Imagine using nylocks for your drivebase screw joints, keps are clearly superior
Keps come loosen fall off
Bro when all his wheels fall off during comp💀
@@Technoroboticsbro cannot tighten a nut