I have watched every episode of Tiny Nest since you have started your build. You have gone out of your way to show a lot of behind the scenes and that has taken a lot of your time and energies. I want you to know that is greatly appreciated. I also have looked at the trailers on the market. I especially like the looks and the new additions Iron Eagle has made to their trailers. I am toying with the idea of making a build of my own one day and really like the Iron Eagle design. Keep up the good work and , give a thanks to Iron Eagle for showing their product when the time comes maybe we can get together one day. Peace.
+Rita Mastin Thanks for following along with us :D it was fun making the trip to Iron Eagle and shooting these videos. We think they've really identified the important elements to building a tiny house on a trailer.
Typically the plywood subfloor is oriented so that the long edges of the plywood are perpendicular to the floor joists. The grain of the two exterior layers of the plywood (top and bottom) run the length of the plywood. It is manufactured this way to provide strength and prevent sagging between the joists or rafters (when used for roof sheathing). You still will realize the material savings you highlighted in the other video since the inside width of the trailer will be less than 96". If the trailer is 20' long you would use (5) 93" long by 48" wide pieces of plywood ( the last piece would be less than 48" once the width of the front and rear wall bottom plates are taken into account. The proper method (in my opinion) would also use (5) pieces. One run along the length of the trailer would include (2) full sheets plus (1) half sheet. The adjoining long run would also have (2) full length sheets cut to 45" wide and (1) half sheet also cut to 45" wide. The layout of the second row would be reversed so that you don't have a continuous seam along the length of any one joist. This also assumes you are using tongue and groove subfloor plywood that will again prevent sagging and rubbing movement along the long edges of the subfloor between joists. If tongue and groove subfloor plywood is not used, blocking would be required to eliminate the up and down movement along the long edge of the plywood between joists. Hope this make sense.....
+pbj417 Thanks for the feedback, technical info is exactly what everyone needs! You could definitely achieve a perpendicular installation by running the sheets parallel to the length of the trailer. It would be a different set of cuts, as you described, and would take more cuts overall, but could result in a little more strength... I'm curious to know HOW much more strength you'd get going perpendicular to the joists vs parallel. I'm sure the difference decreases with closer joist-spacing and thicker plywood too, so that's something to consider when choosing your installation method.
I love this bouncing ideas back forth most people on your tube act much differently to someone making a comment pointing out a bad choice or i would have done it this way type of comment. But yall take it in stride an have always responded back with respect and even admiting the other idea was better ,for this i commend you and your gal. after thinking about it i do believe that if you run solid foam board all the way to the edge of the trailer let the plywood extend to the edge the sit the bottom plate ontop it would solve both issues of supporting the ply and giving you a single bottome plate .that foma board is super dense and running solid under the ply and plate should be rock solid..just a thought..please keep em coming love the little videos..i have as of recent retaught my self that my way is not always the right way although i have been in and around construction since the age of five and i am now 42. there is always more than one way to skin a cat lol.. My hats off to the both of you for doing this
+Scott Tyndall We mostly confident that we're doing things well, but there is always room for improvement :) if there was an ultimately efficient way to build a tiny house, everyone would just do it that one way! I think there are still creative ways yet to be determined to solve all the little concerns that people seem to have about tiny house designs.
by not running the plywood under the wall plate it will squeak and as the house dries out can possibly allow the edge of the plywood to curl up . another observation is that when you go to install the base board on the finish wall you have only half of the 2x4 plate to nail into so is is better to always run the floor out under the wall just my way of doing it
+Scott Tyndall Good observation :) I mentioned putting small blocks to support what would otherwise be a free-floating (like a diving board) flap of plywood... if you anchored those blocks into the bottom-plate, and then anchored the plywood to those, I think it would hold down that outer edge. For the baseboard, you could double-up your bottom-plate. This whole outer insulation option is for those who are particularly concerned about their climate... I personally don't think it's super important (then again we're in a very mild climate) but we wanted to give some suggestions on different ways you could mount the floor.
I think your doing a great job. I hope that I have not said otherwise. I love the videos and how yall are doing your tiny house. keep up the great work
+The Homesteads of Billy Goat Mountain The bottom-pan flashing is totally sealed to the point of being a vapour barrier (I believe). We used a standard poly for our barrier because we didn't have this flashing.
+Tiny House Customs We did use sil-gasket on our trailer to isolate all the wood from coming in direct contact with the metal of the trailer. This was the one piece of info we forgot to include in these Iron Eagle feature videos :P but you can see in detail how we did it to our own build.
Out of all of the tiny home videos that are out there on TH-cam. And I've seen a lot of them. You guys are the best keep up the good work. And I will buy a trailer from iron Eagle soon
+Tiny Nest thank you very much for that information about the discount. I will sure mention both of you. I love the fact that in the start of all your videos. It started with the picture both of you together :) thanks again
MUITO LEGAL! MARAVILHOSO! AQUI NO BRASIL NÃO TEM AINDA ESTE TIPO DE CONSTRUÇÃO. EXCELENTE IDÉIA ESTAS CASAS SOBRE RODAS. COMPACTAS E ACONCHEGANTES. ESTE VÍDEO FOI MUITO INSTRUTIVO MOSTRANDO COMO PREPARAR O PISO PARA RECEBER AS PAREDES. PARABÉNS!!
Tiny Nest, Your videos are great. I just had a question regarding the subfloor. We start our tiny home this upcoming weekend, with a 24' Iron Eagle trailer with the galvanized steel bottom plate. Since I am extremely new to home building, I was curious as to the need or why use hangers for the joist? and why do you leave a gap between the galvanized steel floor plate and subfloor? Thanks again! Love all the videos
Thanks for watching :) and good luck with your project. The hangers support the joists so that they can span the width of the trailer at whatever interval you need to make your subfloor sheathing work, and the depth of the floor cavity is 6" to allow some working room or for you to use different sized lumber, which means you'll likely end up with some kind of gap underneath.
Hi love all your videos and recently used the tiny nest discount on getting a trailer ordered :) I was wondering if you could use 1" rigid foam insulation between the framing and trailer without compromising the flooring structure? basically sil gasket on steroids to bring down thermal bridging.
Awesome :) I wouldn't suggest putting ONLY that rigid foam under the framing... but you could space out some blocking to support the framing and tuck as much foam as you can in there. Have a look at our 3D trailers video to get an idea of what I'm talking about: th-cam.com/video/hQIwV_r2DdM/w-d-xo.html
Unfortunately, I am certain that method will still lead to issues down the road. Thermal bridging isn't just about slightly higher energy bills for climate control... but it is a direct precursor to rot, due to the resultant condensation. Almost without regard to what you'd try to do to stop it, the problem is that steel is indeed an excellent thermal conductor. The cool and warm will meet (lumber is a terrible insulate), and there's your condensation (and it will rise up before it falls and weeps out the bottom, if it can at all). The foremost issue with this is, the rim boards being in direct contact with the trailer. The rot that will begin there will spread to the joists, then the substrate, and thereby compromise the entire structure, because that substrate is in direct contract with the sill plates too... you might get away with a rotting floor for a good while, but the sill plates finally start going and your THOW will have to be entirely demolished and rebuilt. For such reasons, I would personally prefer there to be an option with flush-mount cross rail members (same 6" depth, but at least 24" OC spaced), to drop the rot impervious insulate (rigid, spray-in and roxul in example) straight in-between them, and not have to use lumber for that. Sill seal at least over top all metal, then poly wrap over the entire deck, and THEN put the substrate down. Not directly contacting metal whatsoever, and vapor-barrier where it need be also. Any condensation that will still occur (again, no avoiding it outright), will not so grossly affect the structural integrity (at least not within anyone's lifetime, as metal takes considerably longer to disintegrate than lumber after all) - this would however require that to be able to escape to the under-side (just don't completely air-seal your under-belly. Just enough to keep vermin out). That's the Iron Eagle PAD V.II that I'd like to see happen. Yes, it would weigh more, and cost a bit more too for the additional material, but the peace of mind to me, a sub-floor that will truly last, would be well worth that extra GVWR, even added expense.
Hey, I'm not sure if you were referencing an existing comment or not... but you make some good points. It's this kind of critical thinking that leads to better and better techniques. This video shows the recommended structural setup, but we didn't get into vapour-sealing in-depth. In our own project, we covered every square inch of trailer (that would contact wood) with sill-seal. We also put a vapour-barrier down before laying down the plywood subfloor, and the bottom-plates are on top of that. We're showing a different bottom-plate technique here, but it could also be vapour-and-sill-sealed to isolate it from the trailer... your comments are mostly about keeping the wood away from metal to reduce the transfer of condensation from metal to wood, and I think having less metal directly under the floor leaves less places for condensation to form at all. Since there is no getting around the fact that the trailer for a tiny house has to be metal, time and care must be taken to install some form of barrier in either case... so I think eliminating the deck-height cross-members like Iron Eagle has done, gives the benefit of reducing the obvious thermal bridging, and concerns about condensation can still be solved by thoughtful construction practices.
Not saying it's wrong, though. Even with the sill seal, you're still bound to have some condensation (from the ambient air though; usually not an issue with "conventional" foundations - that early morning, moisture heavy air. That can and will get in there, unless the flashing is air-tight but that's not ideal either). The joists are the foremost concern, because those are structural. I just wouldn't want to have to crawl under there a decade or more from now, to attempt repairing what's supporting pretty much the entire floor load. With the totally flush rails, and the rigid (etc), you'd never have to worry about that. The condensation can still happen, but not affect anything vital. Just saying that would be my preference. And I do want an Iron Eagle for mine, whenever I can pony up for it. I just hope they'd be open to this sort of modification. Their angle-iron side extensions are brilliant, too - main reason I'll go with theirs.
Thanks for all your feedback :) I think it will be good for such a new type of building, for people to use a variety of methods and see which ones hold up... maybe some techniques will be abandoned in the future. That's the risk that early-adopters have to take, but then future builders will be better off! Make sure to use our discount if you end up going for an Iron Eagle ;D
Hey Jake and Kiva, it was nice meeting you guys in Colorado Springs. Your videos have been a great help to me and my dad. I have a question though. How are you handling or planing to handle the water drains from the house. I am almost ready to start building my house, but I am running into a problem because I plan to put it up in Montana. I don't want the water in the lines to freeze. For the incoming lines I think I have it figured out, but the drains are a little trickier. Any thoughts?
+Ryan Walsh Was awesome to meet a bunch of our followers in Colorado! We have an idea to use a membrane drain valve thing... instead of p-traps, so that there is no standing water that could freeze. But this won't be for a while so you'll just have to keep an eye out for when we get to that part :P
Did you folks use treated wood for the bottom plates when in came in contact with the trailer? I wonder if it would be prudent to use a sill gasket under the bottom plates like they do in homes? Great vid guys...Thanks
+1timby Good call... we actually did use sil gasket between all wood a trailer on our own build. Since this was a framing demonstration, we forgot to mention it... but you can see how we went about it in our building series.
+Tiny Nest I was sure that you folks wouldn't miss something like that...LOL I could see a real benefit of installing the floor frame up a couple of inches. One could shoot foam the entire length of the trailer & even get under the plywood for the floors. It would stop any air leaks as well as super insulate the sub-floor. The guy that's building the trailers seems to be pretty good. You guys ever consider putting some storage built into the flooring? You could have under floor areas with hatch like doors. The handles could be recessed. Would be great for storage of goods that are seasonal. Just a thought...LOL Again great work...:)
+1timby You could definitely put some compartments in the floor if it made sense for the design and if you weren't worried about having less insulation. We're probably going to store some larger/seasonal items under the house in weather-proof containers.
How much weight would you save by using steel or aluminum joists instead of wood? And how much more do those cost? It seems like that could be an easy way to save a significant amount of weight.
+MakeMeThinkAgain Honestly I have no idea. You could probably find weight and price info online pretty easily, and then just do some calculations to find out the difference ;)
Now that you are totally enclosed and the cold weather is hitting, I'd be interested in seeing if you can get some thermal images along the base of the walls. I really like these trailers, but I am concerned about that uninsulated strip along the walls. It would be interesting to see if there is a lot of heat that escapes through this region that would make raising the floor a couple of inches worth the loss of headspace.
:) You could probably get a good read using one of those handheld infrared thermometers. If you don't know anybody who has one, There are some that are fairly inexpensive - I've seen some on-line that are less that US$20. That will at least give you surface temperatures that you could compare.
It's best to give them a phone call to get the current pricing and options. We have a link to their site on our Recommendations page: www.tinynestproject.com/werecommend/
3/4" plywood is fairly stiff and with the joist at 16" for such a short span this should be ok, make sure crown is up and no big knots in the joist. Also as said subfloor can be installed lengthwise to be at right angles to joists.
+Kaimi Pelekai Underside meaning to the flashing? that would be something like 20" but you'd better check with Rob (the owner of Iron Eagle) for proper specs. It's hard to measure our own because it's on a sloped grassy yard at the moment. Sinking the floor below the height of the deck gives you about 6" more height compared to if you had to build your floor on top of a regular utility trailer with the same deck height.
Hello guys What's up 🙌🏼 ! Nice video good job 🤜🏼🤛🏼 ! Please, i want to buy the black trailer inside your video please can you tell me Where ? Thanks x1000
The naming that is common around here is that the joists are joists (and make up the floor framing), the plywood is the subfloor, and the flooring is the floor. This is applicable to regular and tiny houses.
How do you deal with condensation from the steel to the wood connections, such as your rim boards? Also it appears your bottom wall plates are mounted to the steel frame without any thermal breaks? Did I miss a step?
I plan on building a Tiny House with my Uncle. Can you break down what you posted in lay terms for a non-builder to understand about the therm heat between the metal and wood? Thank You
We did our best in this video, but to sum it up a little: metal transfers heat/cold much better than wood, so keeping metal insulated and further away from your interior is better. Additionally, it can help to lay something like a foam or gasket in between wherever wood and metal have to mate. Good luck with your project!
+Tiny Nest Thank You for answering. I am researching everything on how to build a tiny house and will be attempting to build one with my handy Uncle. Thank You your blogs. They are helpful.
also, if T&G plywood is used leave a tongue on one edge and a groove on the other by cutting a little off each outside edge thereby keeping a tight fully supported center joint.hope this helps folks.
I believe you also lose an inch of width when using tongue and groove. This would result in calculating 47 inches for centering a floor joist under the sub-floor seam.
Indeed this is another small detail that is easily overlooked. I actually think that due to the fact that none of the long-edges of the plywood will be floating/unsupported, non-T&G ply would be a better choice moving forward (specifically for this design).
I believe that has come up actually... but the problem is that metal will conduct heat around any filling. It's not the air inside that will carry heat away, it's the metal itself, which is continuous throughout the entire trailer :P
Really like the trailer design, especially the flashing welded onto the wheel fender. Seems like you'd leave a drafty spot by not running the plywood underneath of the perimeter sill plate plus you loose a lot of strength that way. Whether you loose 3/4" or more in usable build height, just wouldn't build it that way myself. Finally it scares me; even though it is just a demo; to see you using drywall screws on the joist hangers. Should have a HUGE disclaimer/warning that drywall screws are only good for, um, drywall.
+Jeffrey Long Thanks for the feedback :) Hm, I'm not sure where the strength is lost with this plywood method. It's funny you should bring up drywall screws, because at some point (early on) in our building research, I came across this video th-cam.com/video/lldPT_u5hwE/w-d-xo.html they definitely shouldn't be used on joist-hangers as you said, but it's always interesting to see tests of things that are commonly stated.
+Connor Boule The approach that I would take to this question would be "What could be wrong with the joists sitting up off the frame?" I don't know of any reason this is a problem. They would be supported by the large hardware that is passed through the sides of the trailer frame.
+Connor Boule Thanks for your comments! and as an extra note: the idea behind this design is that you can secure your joists at whatever height you need.
if you build the base frame at max 102 inches you eliminate all of that and keep a low projection. in other words build the trailer frame the same size as your 102 inches wide floor at the trailer factory, then all you need to do is screw your floor sheeting to the top of the trailer frame. insulate frame after running pipes wires, simple smart! this trailer is built around the axles.
Hi guys. Read you mention that HGTV had shown interest (though no offers yet) in your building series and the like. I read this on your Photos page of your website www.tinynestproject.com/photos/ a comment at Sept 10, 2015. So good to hear. That makes sense. Am I the only one who likes to hear Jake say the word "subfloor"?
Tiny Nest "Do I say subfloor funny?" Not at all. Sorry. Combination of not wording that correctly and being coy. I should have said I just like the sound of the word subfloor and you happen to be the only one who ever uses it. Being as I am among a demographic of grateful viewers with an extremely low aptitude for structural engineering and the like, I find it funny and exciting that there is a word I understand, enjoy as I do the combined effect of immersion in the fascinating world of building a tiny home (since that is more likely for me than building a large one) and the bliss of my own ignorance. I like to think that I make up a large portion of the HGTV demographic but I may just be flattering myself. Good work. Keep it up! The effort at deconstructing the process for beginners is admirable and probably a lot harder than you make it look.
Used car hauler trailers are better to build into tiny homes then used travel trailers Because they don't have enough trailer structure and axle capacity.
Good tip if you're going the used route... but it should be kept in mind that starting with used can mean a lot of extra preparation work and fiddling/customizing to make it work, which is why we decided to go with a new trailer.
Going to disagree on both counts... we have been in our tiny for 2 years so far with no hint of growing out of it, and we've already saved an equivalent to the entire value of the trailer via the reduced rent we pay to live on land rather than in an apartment or suite. It's not the answer for everyone but, if considered and decided upon thoughtfully, it can be an excellent lifestyle choice.
+MrMeanderthal If you were going to drive through a battlefield, sure. If you were going to ride over volcanic rubble, why not. If your house might be subjected to forces equal to an earthquake and a hurricane at the same time... you might want to build it with piece of mind :)
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I have watched every episode of Tiny Nest since you have started your build. You have gone out of your way to show a lot of behind the scenes and that has taken a lot of your time and energies. I want you to know that is greatly appreciated. I also have looked at the trailers on the market. I especially like the looks and the new additions Iron Eagle has made to their trailers. I am toying with the idea of making a build of my own one day and really like the Iron Eagle design. Keep up the good work and , give a thanks to Iron Eagle for showing their product when the time comes maybe we can get together one day. Peace.
+Rita Mastin Thanks for following along with us :D it was fun making the trip to Iron Eagle and shooting these videos. We think they've really identified the important elements to building a tiny house on a trailer.
Typically the plywood subfloor is oriented so that the long edges of the plywood are perpendicular to the floor joists. The grain of the two exterior layers of the plywood (top and bottom) run the length of the plywood. It is manufactured this way to provide strength and prevent sagging between the joists or rafters (when used for roof sheathing). You still will realize the material savings you highlighted in the other video since the inside width of the trailer will be less than 96". If the trailer is 20' long you would use (5) 93" long by 48" wide pieces of plywood ( the last piece would be less than 48" once the width of the front and rear wall bottom plates are taken into account. The proper method (in my opinion) would also use (5) pieces. One run along the length of the trailer would include (2) full sheets plus (1) half sheet. The adjoining long run would also have (2) full length sheets cut to 45" wide and (1) half sheet also cut to 45" wide. The layout of the second row would be reversed so that you don't have a continuous seam along the length of any one joist. This also assumes you are using tongue and groove subfloor plywood that will again prevent sagging and rubbing movement along the long edges of the subfloor between joists. If tongue and groove subfloor plywood is not used, blocking would be required to eliminate the up and down movement along the long edge of the plywood between joists. Hope this make sense.....
+pbj417 Thanks for the feedback, technical info is exactly what everyone needs! You could definitely achieve a perpendicular installation by running the sheets parallel to the length of the trailer. It would be a different set of cuts, as you described, and would take more cuts overall, but could result in a little more strength... I'm curious to know HOW much more strength you'd get going perpendicular to the joists vs parallel. I'm sure the difference decreases with closer joist-spacing and thicker plywood too, so that's something to consider when choosing your installation method.
I love this bouncing ideas back forth most people on your tube act much differently to someone making a comment pointing out a bad choice or i would have done it this way type of comment. But yall take it in stride an have always responded back with respect and even admiting the other idea was better ,for this i commend you and your gal. after thinking about it i do believe that if you run solid foam board all the way to the edge of the trailer let the plywood extend to the edge the sit the bottom plate ontop it would solve both issues of supporting the ply and giving you a single bottome plate .that foma board is super dense and running solid under the ply and plate should be rock solid..just a thought..please keep em coming love the little videos..i have as of recent retaught my self that my way is not always the right way although i have been in and around construction since the age of five and i am now 42. there is always more than one way to skin a cat lol.. My hats off to the both of you for doing this
+Scott Tyndall We mostly confident that we're doing things well, but there is always room for improvement :) if there was an ultimately efficient way to build a tiny house, everyone would just do it that one way! I think there are still creative ways yet to be determined to solve all the little concerns that people seem to have about tiny house designs.
Scott Tyndall's Home Shop 9
There is barely any information on how to attach a house to the trailer even less videos. This was very helpful video. Thanks!
Glad you found it informative :)
by not running the plywood under the wall plate it will squeak and as the house dries out can possibly allow the edge of the plywood to curl up . another observation is that when you go to install the base board on the finish wall you have only half of the 2x4 plate to nail into so is is better to always run the floor out under the wall just my way of doing it
+Scott Tyndall Good observation :) I mentioned putting small blocks to support what would otherwise be a free-floating (like a diving board) flap of plywood... if you anchored those blocks into the bottom-plate, and then anchored the plywood to those, I think it would hold down that outer edge. For the baseboard, you could double-up your bottom-plate. This whole outer insulation option is for those who are particularly concerned about their climate... I personally don't think it's super important (then again we're in a very mild climate) but we wanted to give some suggestions on different ways you could mount the floor.
Love how you break down the steps of how to build a tiny house
I think your doing a great job. I hope that I have not said otherwise. I love the videos and how yall are doing your tiny house. keep up the great work
+Scott Tyndall Thanks for all your comments!
Good video, what are you doing for a vapor barrier?
+The Homesteads of Billy Goat Mountain The bottom-pan flashing is totally sealed to the point of being a vapour barrier (I believe). We used a standard poly for our barrier because we didn't have this flashing.
Thanks, just getting ideas for my cabin.
Looks great. Love the design of the trailer.. Did you do any research about vapor barrier between the steel and wood? Is it needed?
+Tiny House Customs We did use sil-gasket on our trailer to isolate all the wood from coming in direct contact with the metal of the trailer. This was the one piece of info we forgot to include in these Iron Eagle feature videos :P but you can see in detail how we did it to our own build.
Out of all of the tiny home videos that are out there on TH-cam. And I've seen a lot of them. You guys are the best keep up the good work. And I will buy a trailer from iron Eagle soon
+Udom Simon Thanks! we've put in a lot of effort. Also, make sure to ask for the Tiny Nest discount if you end up buying an Iron Eagle trailer!
+Tiny Nest thank you very much for that information about the discount. I will sure mention both of you. I love the fact that in the start of all your videos. It started with the picture both of you together :) thanks again
MUITO LEGAL! MARAVILHOSO! AQUI NO BRASIL NÃO TEM AINDA ESTE TIPO DE CONSTRUÇÃO. EXCELENTE IDÉIA ESTAS CASAS SOBRE RODAS. COMPACTAS E ACONCHEGANTES. ESTE VÍDEO FOI MUITO INSTRUTIVO MOSTRANDO COMO PREPARAR O PISO PARA RECEBER AS PAREDES. PARABÉNS!!
Thank you!
Tiny Nest,
Your videos are great. I just had a question regarding the subfloor. We start our tiny home this upcoming weekend, with a 24' Iron Eagle trailer with the galvanized steel bottom plate. Since I am extremely new to home building, I was curious as to the need or why use hangers for the joist? and why do you leave a gap between the galvanized steel floor plate and subfloor?
Thanks again! Love all the videos
Thanks for watching :) and good luck with your project.
The hangers support the joists so that they can span the width of the trailer at whatever interval you need to make your subfloor sheathing work, and the depth of the floor cavity is 6" to allow some working room or for you to use different sized lumber, which means you'll likely end up with some kind of gap underneath.
Hi love all your videos and recently used the tiny nest discount on getting a trailer ordered :) I was wondering if you could use 1" rigid foam insulation between the framing and trailer without compromising the flooring structure? basically sil gasket on steroids to bring down thermal bridging.
Awesome :)
I wouldn't suggest putting ONLY that rigid foam under the framing... but you could space out some blocking to support the framing and tuck as much foam as you can in there. Have a look at our 3D trailers video to get an idea of what I'm talking about: th-cam.com/video/hQIwV_r2DdM/w-d-xo.html
You guys are so funny!
Unfortunately, I am certain that method will still lead to issues down the road. Thermal bridging isn't just about slightly higher energy bills for climate control... but it is a direct precursor to rot, due to the resultant condensation. Almost without regard to what you'd try to do to stop it, the problem is that steel is indeed an excellent thermal conductor. The cool and warm will meet (lumber is a terrible insulate), and there's your condensation (and it will rise up before it falls and weeps out the bottom, if it can at all). The foremost issue with this is, the rim boards being in direct contact with the trailer. The rot that will begin there will spread to the joists, then the substrate, and thereby compromise the entire structure, because that substrate is in direct contract with the sill plates too... you might get away with a rotting floor for a good while, but the sill plates finally start going and your THOW will have to be entirely demolished and rebuilt. For such reasons, I would personally prefer there to be an option with flush-mount cross rail members (same 6" depth, but at least 24" OC spaced), to drop the rot impervious insulate (rigid, spray-in and roxul in example) straight in-between them, and not have to use lumber for that. Sill seal at least over top all metal, then poly wrap over the entire deck, and THEN put the substrate down. Not directly contacting metal whatsoever, and vapor-barrier where it need be also. Any condensation that will still occur (again, no avoiding it outright), will not so grossly affect the structural integrity (at least not within anyone's lifetime, as metal takes considerably longer to disintegrate than lumber after all) - this would however require that to be able to escape to the under-side (just don't completely air-seal your under-belly. Just enough to keep vermin out). That's the Iron Eagle PAD V.II that I'd like to see happen. Yes, it would weigh more, and cost a bit more too for the additional material, but the peace of mind to me, a sub-floor that will truly last, would be well worth that extra GVWR, even added expense.
Hey, I'm not sure if you were referencing an existing comment or not... but you make some good points. It's this kind of critical thinking that leads to better and better techniques. This video shows the recommended structural setup, but we didn't get into vapour-sealing in-depth. In our own project, we covered every square inch of trailer (that would contact wood) with sill-seal. We also put a vapour-barrier down before laying down the plywood subfloor, and the bottom-plates are on top of that. We're showing a different bottom-plate technique here, but it could also be vapour-and-sill-sealed to isolate it from the trailer... your comments are mostly about keeping the wood away from metal to reduce the transfer of condensation from metal to wood, and I think having less metal directly under the floor leaves less places for condensation to form at all. Since there is no getting around the fact that the trailer for a tiny house has to be metal, time and care must be taken to install some form of barrier in either case... so I think eliminating the deck-height cross-members like Iron Eagle has done, gives the benefit of reducing the obvious thermal bridging, and concerns about condensation can still be solved by thoughtful construction practices.
Not saying it's wrong, though. Even with the sill seal, you're still bound to have some condensation (from the ambient air though; usually not an issue with "conventional" foundations - that early morning, moisture heavy air. That can and will get in there, unless the flashing is air-tight but that's not ideal either). The joists are the foremost concern, because those are structural. I just wouldn't want to have to crawl under there a decade or more from now, to attempt repairing what's supporting pretty much the entire floor load. With the totally flush rails, and the rigid (etc), you'd never have to worry about that. The condensation can still happen, but not affect anything vital. Just saying that would be my preference. And I do want an Iron Eagle for mine, whenever I can pony up for it. I just hope they'd be open to this sort of modification. Their angle-iron side extensions are brilliant, too - main reason I'll go with theirs.
Thanks for all your feedback :) I think it will be good for such a new type of building, for people to use a variety of methods and see which ones hold up... maybe some techniques will be abandoned in the future. That's the risk that early-adopters have to take, but then future builders will be better off! Make sure to use our discount if you end up going for an Iron Eagle ;D
Hey Jake and Kiva, it was nice meeting you guys in Colorado Springs. Your videos have been a great help to me and my dad. I have a question though. How are you handling or planing to handle the water drains from the house. I am almost ready to start building my house, but I am running into a problem because I plan to put it up in Montana. I don't want the water in the lines to freeze. For the incoming lines I think I have it figured out, but the drains are a little trickier. Any thoughts?
+Ryan Walsh Was awesome to meet a bunch of our followers in Colorado! We have an idea to use a membrane drain valve thing... instead of p-traps, so that there is no standing water that could freeze. But this won't be for a while so you'll just have to keep an eye out for when we get to that part :P
Did you folks use treated wood for the bottom plates when in came in contact with the trailer?
I wonder if it would be prudent to use a sill gasket under the bottom plates like they do in homes?
Great vid guys...Thanks
+1timby Good call... we actually did use sil gasket between all wood a trailer on our own build. Since this was a framing demonstration, we forgot to mention it... but you can see how we went about it in our building series.
+Tiny Nest I was sure that you folks wouldn't miss something like that...LOL
I could see a real benefit of installing the floor frame up a couple of inches. One could shoot foam the entire length of the trailer & even get under the plywood for the floors. It would stop any air leaks as well as super insulate the sub-floor. The guy that's building the trailers seems to be pretty good.
You guys ever consider putting some storage built into the flooring? You could have under floor areas with hatch like doors. The handles could be recessed. Would be great for storage of goods that are seasonal. Just a thought...LOL
Again great work...:)
+1timby You could definitely put some compartments in the floor if it made sense for the design and if you weren't worried about having less insulation. We're probably going to store some larger/seasonal items under the house in weather-proof containers.
How much weight would you save by using steel or aluminum joists instead of wood? And how much more do those cost? It seems like that could be an easy way to save a significant amount of weight.
+MakeMeThinkAgain Honestly I have no idea. You could probably find weight and price info online pretty easily, and then just do some calculations to find out the difference ;)
You'd think, but I haven't had any luck. I'm not building anything so it was just idle curiosity anyway.
Now that you are totally enclosed and the cold weather is hitting, I'd be interested in seeing if you can get some thermal images along the base of the walls. I really like these trailers, but I am concerned about that uninsulated strip along the walls. It would be interesting to see if there is a lot of heat that escapes through this region that would make raising the floor a couple of inches worth the loss of headspace.
That's a great suggestion... maybe we should crowdfund a heat camera ;D
:) You could probably get a good read using one of those handheld infrared thermometers. If you don't know anybody who has one, There are some that are fairly inexpensive - I've seen some on-line that are less that US$20. That will at least give you surface temperatures that you could compare.
Amazing demonstration keep it up
Glad it was helpful! Make sure to watch our newer video about insulating your floor with these trailers.
good video
+Duane C ;D
How much is one of those trailers? Do they deliver? I have lots to think about now. :) Thanks in advance for the answers to my two questions!
It's best to give them a phone call to get the current pricing and options. We have a link to their site on our Recommendations page: www.tinynestproject.com/werecommend/
Do they make the trailers out of aluminum? Would the consider it love the design
+Nikko Gutierrez No aluminum models as far as we know.
3/4" plywood is fairly stiff and with the joist at 16" for such a short span this should be ok, make sure crown is up and no big knots in the joist. Also as said subfloor can be installed lengthwise to be at right angles to joists.
+John Waddell Nice tips :)
awwesome info! whats the height from road to the under side of your floor with this trailer? did you gain any height from using this design?
+Kaimi Pelekai Underside meaning to the flashing? that would be something like 20" but you'd better check with Rob (the owner of Iron Eagle) for proper specs. It's hard to measure our own because it's on a sloped grassy yard at the moment. Sinking the floor below the height of the deck gives you about 6" more height compared to if you had to build your floor on top of a regular utility trailer with the same deck height.
+Tiny Nest thanks for the quick response!!!
+Kaimi Pelekai :)
So we are not supposed to put any insulation in the bottom, then do we need any vapor barriers under there?
Not sure what you mean? You definitely always want insulation in the floor.
Tiny Nest Ok sorry I got confused by some other comments
Hello guys What's up 🙌🏼 ! Nice video good job 🤜🏼🤛🏼 ! Please, i want to buy the black trailer inside your video please can you tell me Where ?
Thanks x1000
Company is called Iron Eagle .ironeagletinyhousetrailer.com/tinyhomes/. Make sure you ask for the Tiny Nest discount!
what is the first layer on that trailer? is it tin? or plastic? or....?
In this sister-video it's explained that it is a galvanized metal pan: th-cam.com/video/Raonw6HcrVQ/w-d-xo.html
Floor joists and plywood makes the floor. Subfloor is under that. In a house bearers and piles is the subfloor, on the the trailer is the subfloor 👍
The naming that is common around here is that the joists are joists (and make up the floor framing), the plywood is the subfloor, and the flooring is the floor. This is applicable to regular and tiny houses.
How do you deal with condensation from the steel to the wood connections, such as your rim boards? Also it appears your bottom wall plates are mounted to the steel frame without any thermal breaks? Did I miss a step?
I plan on building a Tiny House with my Uncle. Can you break down what you posted in lay terms for a non-builder to understand about the therm heat between the metal and wood? Thank You
We did our best in this video, but to sum it up a little: metal transfers heat/cold much better than wood, so keeping metal insulated and further away from your interior is better. Additionally, it can help to lay something like a foam or gasket in between wherever wood and metal have to mate. Good luck with your project!
+Tiny Nest Thank You for answering. I am researching everything on how to build a tiny house and will be attempting to build one with my handy Uncle. Thank You your blogs. They are helpful.
also, if T&G plywood is used leave a tongue on one edge and a groove on the other by cutting a little off each outside edge thereby keeping a tight fully supported center joint.hope this helps folks.
+John Waddell Another good one thanks!
I believe you also lose an inch of width when using tongue and groove. This would result in calculating 47 inches for centering a floor joist under the sub-floor seam.
Indeed this is another small detail that is easily overlooked. I actually think that due to the fact that none of the long-edges of the plywood will be floating/unsupported, non-T&G ply would be a better choice moving forward (specifically for this design).
Noted
has anyone thought of filling the frame with insulation?
I believe that has come up actually... but the problem is that metal will conduct heat around any filling. It's not the air inside that will carry heat away, it's the metal itself, which is continuous throughout the entire trailer :P
Really like the trailer design, especially the flashing welded onto the wheel fender. Seems like you'd leave a drafty spot by not running the plywood underneath of the perimeter sill plate plus you loose a lot of strength that way. Whether you loose 3/4" or more in usable build height, just wouldn't build it that way myself. Finally it scares me; even though it is just a demo; to see you using drywall screws on the joist hangers. Should have a HUGE disclaimer/warning that drywall screws are only good for, um, drywall.
+Jeffrey Long Should have Profread first; Lose an O from Loose ;)
+Jeffrey Long Thanks for the feedback :) Hm, I'm not sure where the strength is lost with this plywood method. It's funny you should bring up drywall screws, because at some point (early on) in our building research, I came across this video th-cam.com/video/lldPT_u5hwE/w-d-xo.html they definitely shouldn't be used on joist-hangers as you said, but it's always interesting to see tests of things that are commonly stated.
The outer joists, the longer ones since they are 5.5" tall and the trailer is 6" deep wont they be sitting a half inch off of the frame? Is this OK?
+Connor Boule The approach that I would take to this question would be "What could be wrong with the joists sitting up off the frame?" I don't know of any reason this is a problem. They would be supported by the large hardware that is passed through the sides of the trailer frame.
+Tiny Nest I guess there wouldn't be much of a problem. Thank you for your response you guys are doing amazing work.
+Connor Boule Thanks for your comments! and as an extra note: the idea behind this design is that you can secure your joists at whatever height you need.
how much cost this trailer the big one......im in italy........
Very approximately, tiny house trailers range from 2500-5000 USD depending on size and extras.
I guess concept means no lock washers or self locking nuts?
You could definitely use a locking method on the fasteners. I'm a fan of the double-nut method if you really wanted to lock it down.
if you build the base frame at max 102 inches you eliminate all of that and keep a low projection. in other words build the trailer frame the same size as your 102 inches wide floor at the trailer factory, then all you need to do is screw your floor sheeting to the top of the trailer frame. insulate frame after running pipes wires, simple smart! this trailer is built around the axles.
I replied to this comment thread on our video: th-cam.com/video/Raonw6HcrVQ/w-d-xo.html
Hi guys. Read you mention that HGTV had shown interest (though no offers yet) in your building series and the like. I read this on your Photos page of your website www.tinynestproject.com/photos/ a comment at Sept 10, 2015.
So good to hear. That makes sense.
Am I the only one who likes to hear Jake say the word "subfloor"?
+Rayn Gryphon Yeah we'd love to do something on one of the shows that's around but haven't sorted anything out yet. Do I say subfloor funny? lol
Tiny Nest
"Do I say subfloor funny?"
Not at all. Sorry. Combination of not wording that correctly and being coy. I should have said I just like the sound of the word subfloor and you happen to be the only one who ever uses it.
Being as I am among a demographic of grateful viewers with an extremely low aptitude for structural engineering and the like, I find it funny and exciting that there is a word I understand, enjoy as I do the combined effect of immersion in the fascinating world of building a tiny home (since that is more likely for me than building a large one) and the bliss of my own ignorance.
I like to think that I make up a large portion of the HGTV demographic but I may just be flattering myself.
Good work. Keep it up!
The effort at deconstructing the process for beginners is admirable and probably a lot harder than you make it look.
How far apart are the Joists
+Jennifer Roberts We used 16" on center.
+Tiny Nest thanks
Used car hauler trailers are better to build into tiny homes then used travel trailers Because they don't have enough trailer structure and axle capacity.
Good tip if you're going the used route... but it should be kept in mind that starting with used can mean a lot of extra preparation work and fiddling/customizing to make it work, which is why we decided to go with a new trailer.
Most people won't want to hear this but there very expensive and most likely you'll grow out of it in 2-3 years or less.
Going to disagree on both counts... we have been in our tiny for 2 years so far with no hint of growing out of it, and we've already saved an equivalent to the entire value of the trailer via the reduced rent we pay to live on land rather than in an apartment or suite. It's not the answer for everyone but, if considered and decided upon thoughtfully, it can be an excellent lifestyle choice.
You gave that guy free advertising AND free labor? He'd better give you a discount on your next trailer.
+Bryant Ford Ha, there are certain deals that made this worth our while, and hopefully worth the while of our viewers!
@2:25 Normally you would put the crown up... ;-)
:P nice catch heh, we were just whipping it together as a demo ;)
all these "tiny Homes" are WAAAAY over built..
+MrMeanderthal Then people are doing it right! :D
+Tiny Nest right,, then why don't they build cars with 3/4 inch thick steel? why not put semitrailer truck tires on your bicycle?
+MrMeanderthal If you were going to drive through a battlefield, sure. If you were going to ride over volcanic rubble, why not. If your house might be subjected to forces equal to an earthquake and a hurricane at the same time... you might want to build it with piece of mind :)