I dont blame jason for wanting to kill batman. being tortured by the joker for a year, knowing how persistent batman is in saving people but yet failing to save him would really piss anyone off
My favorite line in the whole game is the ... "I'm fine Jas-Tim." "You haven't done that in awhile." I just like the implied history of that moment. Like Jason's death was something that took a long, long time to get prospective on. And even know Tim understands that it's just something he's gonna have to live with.
When all said and done, this is a great twist on the Classic Death in the Family storyline. Rather than having Jason dying from an explosion, the Joker actually toys with him till he's willing to what ever he wants and even using Tim as a reason to make Jason hate Batman really makes it even more surprising and darker. It might not be more violent than past games, but it's thematic subject matter is what really gave this game an M rating.
Looking back on it, I agree. It makes more sense now because the Joker is now dead, Jason would've been happy thinking Batman killed him. I'm glad they altered the story just a bit, but still having that classic feel to it.
Yeah, like a lot of people are going "it was obvious it was Jason" and stuff along that line, but that really wasn't the main theme of the game, the Knights identity. I kind of thought that this Batman was sort of like Rocksteadys personal psychological introspection into Batman, like his regrets, his values, his fears, his limits, and his tenacity, and I feel they honestly nailed it.
This was so painful to watch. The fact that you are still in control of batman during this scene really instills the emotion that batman is going through. You can move all you want, but no matter how hard you try you can't save him.
I sometime I forget because of how much fun the joker having and how interesting his character can be written I forget how much of a monster he really is I mean he fucking broke that man Down
Dontae Kelly Honestly, I think Arkham Knight's portrayal of the character is really in line with the Alan Moore version of the character (the best version aka the one from Killing Joke) and is probably the best of the Arkham series.
Idiots, both of them Robin for being reckless and tried to take care of the joker only to get caught and tortured....and Batman...for not questioning Joker and his tape...and confirming Jason's death himself. Granted he took it hard...but find out first before concluding.
Batman replaced him without proof of his death? Six months later? Assuming he trained Tim for a few months, that means he replaced Jason almost right away.
In the game? About 70%, when Batman goes see the infected jokerized people that were kidnapped by Harley. In the first hallucination/flashback, Joker said to Jason that has been 6 months since he captured him and shows him a photo of Batman with the new Robin. It proves that Bruce replaced Jason before getting confirmation of his death and assuming Tim had some training, he replaced Jason very shortly.
So that's why the game had an M rating......that being said, since the rating was already there, would it have been too much to ask that I hear a thug say "OH *FUCK* IT'S BATMAN" just once?
Ouch, yes. That scar means that he can never go back to his old life. Joker may be an insane maniac, but at that moment, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
The Joker is insane, he feels no guilt and he has killed people for no reason at all. Some people who are killed are killed for a reason but sometimes its just because why not.
Joker isn't crazy or clinically insane he is a psychopath (there is a difference crazy is a temporary feeling or in some cases it just means off your hinge in a way that means your usually out of touch with the real world) he was driven to "madness", the only reason we think he is insane is because thats what the doctors and batman and all the other characters want us to think. As a psychologist and psychiatrist (not like Harley so don't even make the joke) i can tell you that he is a very complex character and there is more to him than meets the eye.
It's a bit more than the comic version yea, but I still say the comic version was still darker. Jason's mom betrayed him and handed over to the joker, beat him, and Jason's dying act was he was still trying to save her. But then they both died.
I don't blame Jason for wanting to kill Batman. Its one thing that he was tortured by the Joker for a year, but for Batman to replace him is an asshole move. Especially if your only going by what Joker showed and told you. At least look for Jason's body to confirm it, your Batman for crying out loud.
Béla Kovács Rejecting someone so talented would be dumb as hell It's still not like he was actively trying to replace him, and he probably saw that Tim needed help, along with how Batman needed help himself
Trey D I know what you mean but technically i'm still right by accepting Tim he hurt Jason. I mean come on Batman at least should look after Jason's body to make sure he is dead. He is the world's greatest detective after all for God's sake.
When I completed the game and looked back at the story as a whole, I can see why Jason did what he did. I don't think it's just because Batman replaced him with Tim. Jason has a temper but he can be rational most of the time. He would probably hate the pair of them for the rest of his life, and might even challenge the pair to a fight, but to terrorise his home city and plan to destroy America? No, not even he would go that far. I think the true beginning of the Arkham Knight began with the end of Arkham City. Pretty much everybody assumed that Bruce killed the Joker, so imagine how Jason would feel that he was robbed of the chance to destroy his tormentor? Jason took years to recover and to plot revenge, and finding that it was all for nothing could drive anyone insane. So no matter how much Jason insisted that he only wanted Bruce to die, I think it's safe to assume that he wanted him to suffer just as much as Scarecrow wanted.
Gotham is one of the only reasons Bruce became Batman not to mention he's spent billions on the city trying to make it better If it just became a parking lot and Bruce couldn't stop it I'm pretty sure they would have really fucked with him and he would have also died
Him wanting to get joker might be a good point but wouldn't he not get mad that Batman tried to avenge him? I think he's pissed that Batman didn't come for him. He was waiting for the guy he trusted like a father to show up and save him but didn't. He thought that Bruce didn't care about him and that he just gave up looking for him and then replaced him right away. I would get pissed too if I was getting beaten and tortured for almost a year with the feeling of if your "father" was going to save you at any second but didn't.
It feels weird hearing him begging for mercy in the dark with joker branding him like some sort of slave. Especially with him being highly trained by batman too, but everyone has there limits.
If you really think about it, Jason pretty much is a slave by the end of this game. The transitions to Jason's character in each flashback show that clearly. In the first one, he's still fighting back. It's been six months and he still has hope, still has enough fire to spit that "Screw you!" at the Joker. But then, it changes. We see that it's just a mask, just a front, with that line, "Why won't you just kill me?" The second one is just horrific. From the sounds Jason was making at the beginning of the flashback, it sounds like he's gagged. God knows how long he's been strung up on that hook. And then Joker's monologue...at first glance, it seems like he's merely telling Jason that Bruce doesn't want him. But if you read into the whole "unwanted puppy" thing, he's pretty much telling Jason that Batman doesn't consider him a person- that he's no better than an animal, and it's heartbreaking. And then that brand, that mark of ownership..."just make sure people know he's yours." Everyone who sees Jason's face now will know what happened. That third scene, though...it's not a torture scene. Joker isn't doing anything to Jason until he shoots him. But we can see the evidence of brainwashing all over the place. Jason's completely broken by this point- he's not resisting anymore. He's saying exactly what the Joker wants to hear, hoping that he won't be punished for it. And he gets shot. Jason really is Joker's slave by the third scene. Joker says plainly, "He's mine. Mine, mine, mine. To do with as I wish." Jason would never have been the Joker's sidekick, he would have been his slave. Joker owns him. And what breaks my heart is that complete defeat in his voice when Joker asks him who Batman is. That quiet, "Of course, sir." Jason might just as well have called the Joker "Master." But to me, the worst part is how the Joker phrases his taunts to Batman. "Did you hear that, Bats? Kid's not yours anymore. He's mine. Mine, mine, mine. To do with as I wish." The worst part of that isn't the fact that Joker has essentially enslaved Jason. It's that second line- "Kid's not yours anymore." Jason's sitting right there. He can hear that. And that line- "not yours anymore"- suggests that Jason belonged to Bruce. That before he was Joker's slave, he was Batman's. And if Joker had killed him with that gunshot, he would have died thinking that he would always be owned by someone, that he would always be a slave in some way.
I felt so bad for Jason, this made me realise how truly of an iconic figure he is. He was emotionally and physically mentally distorted until he was numb and was indoctrinated to believe jokers twisted reality so that he really did resent batman we all saw the extremes he took to kill batman but in the end his conscious of morality caught up in his broken mind so he would do the right thing. This was truly captivating and I think Jason Todd / Red Hood / Robin is my new favourite character! What a hero. :)
***** I heard from a friend that the comic writers back then were getting death threats if they didn't kill off Jason, and that was part of the reason why Jason was killed as well.
This is why I really liked the Arkham Knight as a villain, he's probably the only Batman villain who has legitimate grievances against him, it's chilling to think about what a year of torture under Joker would be like. Arkham Knight is definitely one of the highlights for this gen of consoles.
I knew as soon as I heard Troy Baker's voice, and I don't really know anything about Batman lore. Still think they handled it very well though. Poor Jason.
I actually prefer this version of Jason todds story to the comic books. It makes more sense that he never actually died and was just tortured. In the comic books he's revived because superboy prime punches reality and causes Jason's death to have never occurred. Yes he punches fucking reality....also torturing Jason to break his will seems like something the joker would do
Whenever I see the Joker I always think of 2 incarnations: Heath Ledger's EXTREMELY dark take and Ceasar Romero, the very light take. Then I see Hamill's and think "Oh, its light with a bit of darkness mixed in". That is until I played Arkham Knight, which was the first thing to shock me in gaming for years! I never thought of Hammil as THIS evil, so when I played this and saw the branding scene I kid you not I dropped my controller.
WARNING SPOILERS Barbara shooting herself in the head, the Batmobile torture scene, the cop shooting everyone in the diner, Henry Adams "Joker" suicide and killing scene, these scenes, The Killing Joke scene with Barbara getting shot in the back, the Professor Pyg confrontation scene, Batman snapping Joker's neck scene in the end, you and you as the Joker, being able to shoot people down in the end, is what really gave this game an M lol(/spoiler)
They sorta censored Barbara shooting herself in the head. Also, didn't they do something like that in Arkham City? With Rās impaling himself in attempt to kill Batman.
Notice the cockroach symbol surrounding Jason's chair! The same logo from the first game in which you unlocked Amadeus Arkham's messages! Foreshadowing him being the Arkham Knight! :O
It looks kind of like Jason was shot in the chest where his robin symbol would be, and on Batman's armor the bat symbol is the strongest point. Maybe that's how Jason survived.
Yeah he was shot it it was his symbol that deleted the shot in the Arkham comics joker did try to shoot him but when he survived joke took him to a different location and continued to torture him and that’s where he got slades help and escaped
its kinda sad when you think about it too much, i mean, its not real, but things like this actually CAN happen in real life. Idk why pple would want to make a story about that!
Lazertazer444 sorry next time our next super hero's orgins will be about puppys licking his face without his own will , he will be called "daisy man" -DC
what i find most disturbing is jason calling the joker sir, it makes my skin crawl as how bad the joker mutilated, demasculated jason, and just turned him into some kind of lesser being, this game is fucking dark, excellent story work
This sort of thing happens in real life, and might be the reason for them they decided on centering the game around him as the militaristic leader Arkham Knight rather than directly as the vigilante Red Hood, to put emphasis on it being a battlefield. As he ranted, "I was just a child, you made me into a soldier and sent me to war." War can traumatize people, and it doesn't matter how badass you are, torture is inhumane and can break you, physically and emotionally.
PossessedbyPhoenix Torture is quite humane. Only humans do it. To say it's inhumane is like saying something other than humans do it. Like being cruel is inhuman. Humane? Inhumane? What silly words to define humans as strictly compassionate entities.
Kind of reminds me of one scene in batman: return of the joker where joker completely transforms Tim Drake into Joker jr. Joker is humorously terrifying. if there are gg to be another set of batman movies; i hope they'll make them as dark as their animated counterparts.
proof that jason Todd is one of the three jokers and joker hypnotized him and beat him to insanity and jason biggest identity is now the joker new 52 joker to be exact and because jason came back from the Lazarus pit he is immortal and in the new 52 jokers bio he is immortal and if you listen to one of the torture scenes it sounds like he is spraying him and writing on him and which when you look at the suicide squad joker he looks like the tattoos where written or sprayed on also one of the tattoos says damaged and in the episode where jason Todd comes to life by ras al ghul he says but returned to the world (damaged) because he felt batman the closest person to him at the time just let him die and for that has tryed many identity covers including the arkham knight and red hood but his biggest attempt yet is the identity of the joker and in the batman vs superman movie Bruce Wayne says how many good guys stayed that way which is referring to Harvey dent who turnt to two face and also Jason Todd and duriwitglis there's a statue that says haha jokes on you and the big joke is that jason is the joker and batman didn't realise it and then because he is immortal and that he is jason Todd he knows batman couldn't kill him after the guilt he felt so there for he could get his revenge on batman for letting him die and haunt him forever and that's why new 52 joker looks so young and the only reason Harley Quinn is in love with him is because he has the same twisted mind as the joker and therefore making it so obvious yet complicated for batman as the joker will truly never die as there is no joker with out batman and there is no batman without joker as both batman and joker are obsessed with each other and this is wouldn't be the first time a robin became a joker just like Tim drake jason can become a joker and because batman has a never ending cycle of sidekicks they are just as vulnerable and the joker cycle will never end.
Hired help. In the New Batman Adventures episode Mad Love Batman even says to Harley "Wake up Harleen. He had you pegged for hired help the minute you walked into Arkham."
Fucking seriously? People were flipping their shit over what happened to Oracle, when literally nothing ACTUALLY happened to her. Meanwhile, Jason goes through worse shit than literally anything to happen to Oracle throughout all of DC comics history, and everyone turns a blind eye?
Danni Liliac well Jason was tortured during the time of the interview tapes, Witch take place 1 year before Arkham asylum. Plus in Arkham knight gennissis ( a comic series based on what happened before Arkham knight ) it's revealed that he what still being tortured by Harley and joker during Arkham asylum, and just before the joker-titan boss fight deathstroke helped him escape.
The Arkham Knight comics are non canon. Jason was tortured years before the events of Arkham Asylum. He wasn't still being tortured during Arkham Asylum because he was already long gone and had become The Arkham Knight by then. Deathstroke didn't help him escape either. Joker himself let Jason go after he faked his death, satisfied that he'd completely broken him and turned him against Batman and planning to use Jason as a weapon against Batman at some point but he never got the chance before Joker died of his Titan disease in Arkham City. Jason was only tortured in the asylum for a year. For him to have been there until the events of Arkham Asylum he'd have to have been tortured for years which he wasn't.
if u look in doctor young office there’s a room with the same markings on the floor as seen in arkham knight and there a wheelchair in the corner with the wheel still spinning a little easter egg
These flashbacks were obviously based partly on Death in the Family and also on Batman Beyond Return of the Joker where Joker tortured Tin Drake and turned him into Joker Jr.
Ok, here is something g most fans forget: TIM VOLUNTEERED TO BE ROBIN. He asked for the suit, it's likely here that he took the spot originally to be a temp to find Jason. Anyone ever think of that?
As obvious as this "Plot" twist was (People on the forums were calling it even 7 months before the release, Read DITF comics) It still makes me sick how joker did this to todd. I actually was physically ill when i saw this, What a fucked up sack of shit and it's a shame bat's didn't break his "No kill" rule just once....
slopcrusher joker doesn't come back to life, Batman was locking him deep in his subconscious to get over the fear gas, and even if it were real, locking someone away in a solitary confinement cell isn't killing
Being tortured by the Joker for over a year. That's enough to drive pretty much anyone insane, there's virtually no limit to what the Joker is capable of. I think hell would be more pleasant than that
Kyle Shea I could see Joker giving Jason a bucket to piss in then kicking it away just as he starts to have one. That's definitely something I imagine him doing.
Jason was tortured by the Joker for over a year and then killed. This reminds me about the case of Sylvia Likens in IN. in 1965. 16 year old Sylvia Likens was who tortured to death from August to October 1965. look it up the case is close to this.
I was texting my friend when I saw harley quinn and he responded, "Your about to see the knight." I saw jason and i responded "It's jason isn't it?" Then he said "lol ya." Then jason got shot and i responded "are you sure lol?"
Okay. I don't want hate. But they seriously need to make a batman show with all the robins. Not just dick. Or just Tim and dick. No. All. Dick(Nightwing). Jason(Red Hood). Tim(Red Robin). Damian(Robin). And the bargirls. Cmon. Barb(Oracle). Cass(Black Bat). Steph(Spoiler)
Originally this was my theory for the arkham knight but I quit on it cuz I thought that would be to predictable because Jason Todd has done jack shit in the arkham series but as soon as he called batman "old" I was like god dammit rocksteady y couldn't u have made it Jim Gordon now that right there would have been a good twist, they constantly threw hints in our faces regarding his identity anyways
I was hoping it was gonna be Damien Wayne. It would've made sense since his mother Talia died in Arkham City and he could've used that to fuel his revenge by blaming batman.
you know why Jim Gordon would have been a twist? Cuz it's an absolutely horrible idea. Surprise doesn't necessarily equal great, otherwise we could have had Rosie o donell as the arkham knight, what a twist!
I know!! Jason was so strong and rebellious as Robin, and even in the first torture scene. By the branding, though, he's lost all hope. And in the third one, poor boy's completely broken.
OK number one Jason was shot with BODY AROUMOR because joker put it on him number Jason escaped during jokers prison break number three joker Paid death stroke to kill Jason but Jason paid death stroke first they both worked together for a tiny bit until Jason left him then Jason became TEH RED HODD *cheer cheer* thank u 💃💃💃 fabulus!
I remember seeing this scene a few days ago, when I first beat the game. Jason's scream is horrifying. To think that he went through a year of torture by the Joker. I can only imagine how Bruce felt when he found out about the Arkham Knight's true identity.
I can only imagine what else Joker did to Jason that the game didn't show us. If you look closely at the character during each flashback, there are new scars and wounds every time.
I dont blame jason for wanting to kill batman. being tortured by the joker for a year, knowing how persistent batman is in saving people but yet failing to save him would really piss anyone off
I agree
GraceAndGlory Couldn't agree more
I agree
Totally agree. Batman sucks sometimes.
Then he got replacement in 6 months by Tim
My favorite line in the whole game is the ...
"I'm fine Jas-Tim."
"You haven't done that in awhile."
I just like the implied history of that moment. Like Jason's death was something that took a long, long time to get prospective on. And even know Tim understands that it's just something he's gonna have to live with.
so we can all agree this scene pretty much gave the game the m rating right?
Angela Greenwood In this universe, Joker sent a tape of the six months he torture Jason to Batman.
Yep
Angela Greenwood This, Professor Pyg and Scarecrow
MrPerfect2000Z And thug being tortured by Batmobile wheel (Hill mentioned it)
Angela Greenwood
Since most of the torture occurred off-screen, not exactly.
When all said and done, this is a great twist on the Classic Death in the Family storyline. Rather than having Jason dying from an explosion, the Joker actually toys with him till he's willing to what ever he wants and even using Tim as a reason to make Jason hate Batman really makes it even more surprising and darker. It might not be more violent than past games, but it's thematic subject matter is what really gave this game an M rating.
Looking back on it, I agree. It makes more sense now because the Joker is now dead, Jason would've been happy thinking Batman killed him. I'm glad they altered the story just a bit, but still having that classic feel to it.
Yeah, like a lot of people are going "it was obvious it was Jason" and stuff along that line, but that really wasn't the main theme of the game, the Knights identity. I kind of thought that this Batman was sort of like Rocksteadys personal psychological introspection into Batman, like his regrets, his values, his fears, his limits, and his tenacity, and I feel they honestly nailed it.
jimmy mustard Same here
Ironbat92 so tell me what's worse GTA V torture scene or this?
Jermone Lol Oh, GTA V's hands down.
This was so painful to watch. The fact that you are still in control of batman during this scene really instills the emotion that batman is going through. You can move all you want, but no matter how hard you try you can't save him.
it even gives an example of how hard batman looked for jason while he was missing but still could never find him no matter how hard he tried
I sometime I forget because of how much fun the joker having and how interesting his character can be written I forget how much of a monster he really is I mean he fucking broke that man Down
Dontae Kelly Honestly, I think Arkham Knight's portrayal of the character is really in line with the Alan Moore version of the character (the best version aka the one from Killing Joke) and is probably the best of the Arkham series.
Tortured by the joker for a whole year. Damn
I think Joker told batman that Jason is dead so batman stopped looking
Guys how did Jason get caught in the first place?
Abdullah Tariq Jason was frustrated that Batman wouldn't kill the Joker. So he decided to go after him himself. And well, you see what happened.
Idiots, both of them Robin for being reckless and tried to take care of the joker only to get caught and tortured....and Batman...for not questioning Joker and his tape...and confirming Jason's death himself.
Granted he took it hard...but find out first before concluding.
Abdullah Tariq in the comics he found his birth mother...but she was blackmailed by Joker to give him up.
If you look at from the voice actors it's mark hamill teaching troy baker a lesson.
I laughed way too hard at this.
Marky Marc me too...wait a minute
LMAO
BoringMan he is just like " i think your time is up as the joker, NOW ITS MY TURN AGAIN"
kylo ren "this is what happens when your drag your friends into this crazy little game of ours"
Batman replaced him without proof of his death? Six months later? Assuming he trained Tim for a few months, that means he replaced Jason almost right away.
He was sent a video of his death.
Jason was killed after a year of torture, that's when Joker sent the video. By then, Bruce was already fighting with Tim as Robin.
In the game? About 70%, when Batman goes see the infected jokerized people that were kidnapped by Harley. In the first hallucination/flashback, Joker said to Jason that has been 6 months since he captured him and shows him a photo of Batman with the new Robin. It proves that Bruce replaced Jason before getting confirmation of his death and assuming Tim had some training, he replaced Jason very shortly.
Sofia Matos Well DC is going to produce a comic showing more of this Arkham Jason Todd. Maybe we'll see more there.
Canis Mayoris Awhile ago. Saw it on IGN.
These torture scenes shows how joker is the best villain in comics seriously,the sort of character you hate and love
Marlon Rodrigues Love to hate.
So that's why the game had an M rating......that being said, since the rating was already there, would it have been too much to ask that I hear a thug say "OH *FUCK* IT'S BATMAN" just once?
Holly fucking shit it's the batdick!!!
LoreShocks hahaa!!! Made my morning
Psnowdog7 Batman: Rogue Warrior Edition
No killing and no F words.. that's the way of the bat
Jesus Fucking Chris Batman!
The "j" never stood for Jason, it stood for "joker" because he owned him....
Ouch, yes. That scar means that he can never go back to his old life. Joker may be an insane maniac, but at that moment, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
Joker isn't insane. He's just very evil and rotten to the core.
Its up to Jason, he can either crumble under the suffering and become jokers pet or rise above
The Joker is insane, he feels no guilt and he has killed people for no reason at all. Some people who are killed are killed for a reason but sometimes its just because why not.
Joker isn't crazy or clinically insane he is a psychopath (there is a difference crazy is a temporary feeling or in some cases it just means off your hinge in a way that means your usually out of touch with the real world) he was driven to "madness", the only reason we think he is insane is because thats what the doctors and batman and all the other characters want us to think. As a psychologist and psychiatrist (not like Harley so don't even make the joke) i can tell you that he is a very complex character and there is more to him than meets the eye.
Much darker than the comic version,anyone else get a Batman Beyond Return of the Joker vibe ?
SuperMicklovin The comic version was pretty dark too after all it inspired this one.
True but I feel this is more disturbing.
It's a bit more than the comic version yea, but I still say the comic version was still darker. Jason's mom betrayed him and handed over to the joker, beat him, and Jason's dying act was he was still trying to save her. But then they both died.
SuperMicklovin I know...brings me goosebumps thinking about it...
SuperMicklovin I came here after watching the return of the joker scene cause I was reminded of this =P =(
Mission failed: batman was spooked
God, even when The Joker is dead, he's still a big threat to Gotham.
Who else saw the crowbar and went "aw shit..."
+Dickie Bird146 I did
If Joker REALLY wanted to embarrass Jason, he should have put the brand's font in Comic Sans.
Those scenes were really disturbing to watch. No wonder this game got rated M.
This section of Arkham Knight pretty much secured the M rating for this game.
The fact that you can hear the chattering gag teeth from Asylum and City in the background of the flashbacks is a nice touch.
I don't blame Jason for wanting to kill Batman. Its one thing that he was tortured by the Joker for a year, but for Batman to replace him is an asshole move. Especially if your only going by what Joker showed and told you. At least look for Jason's body to confirm it, your Batman for crying out loud.
Tim came to him, Batman didn't want to replace him
Trey D Still he accepted Tim and replaced Jason
Béla Kovács Rejecting someone so talented would be dumb as hell
It's still not like he was actively trying to replace him, and he probably saw that Tim needed help, along with how Batman needed help himself
Trey D
I know what you mean but technically i'm still right by accepting Tim he hurt Jason. I mean come on Batman at least should look after Jason's body to make sure he is dead. He is the world's greatest detective after all for God's sake.
Béla Kovács My point exactly.
When I completed the game and looked back at the story as a whole, I can see why Jason did what he did.
I don't think it's just because Batman replaced him with Tim. Jason has a temper but he can be rational most of the time. He would probably hate the pair of them for the rest of his life, and might even challenge the pair to a fight, but to terrorise his home city and plan to destroy America? No, not even he would go that far.
I think the true beginning of the Arkham Knight began with the end of Arkham City. Pretty much everybody assumed that Bruce killed the Joker, so imagine how Jason would feel that he was robbed of the chance to destroy his tormentor? Jason took years to recover and to plot revenge, and finding that it was all for nothing could drive anyone insane. So no matter how much Jason insisted that he only wanted Bruce to die, I think it's safe to assume that he wanted him to suffer just as much as Scarecrow wanted.
Gotham is one of the only reasons Bruce became Batman not to mention he's spent billions on the city trying to make it better
If it just became a parking lot and Bruce couldn't stop it I'm pretty sure they would have really fucked with him and he would have also died
Him wanting to get joker might be a good point but wouldn't he not get mad that Batman tried to avenge him? I think he's pissed that Batman didn't come for him. He was waiting for the guy he trusted like a father to show up and save him but didn't. He thought that Bruce didn't care about him and that he just gave up looking for him and then replaced him right away. I would get pissed too if I was getting beaten and tortured for almost a year with the feeling of if your "father" was going to save you at any second but didn't.
It feels weird hearing him begging for mercy in the dark with joker branding him like some sort of slave. Especially with him being highly trained by batman too, but everyone has there limits.
Do you really think he was able to keep up the muscle and health after a year of malnutrition
Ah so that's what he did to him while he and Jason was in the dark part of the room
If you really think about it, Jason pretty much is a slave by the end of this game. The transitions to Jason's character in each flashback show that clearly. In the first one, he's still fighting back. It's been six months and he still has hope, still has enough fire to spit that "Screw you!" at the Joker. But then, it changes. We see that it's just a mask, just a front, with that line, "Why won't you just kill me?"
The second one is just horrific. From the sounds Jason was making at the beginning of the flashback, it sounds like he's gagged. God knows how long he's been strung up on that hook. And then Joker's monologue...at first glance, it seems like he's merely telling Jason that Bruce doesn't want him. But if you read into the whole "unwanted puppy" thing, he's pretty much telling Jason that Batman doesn't consider him a person- that he's no better than an animal, and it's heartbreaking. And then that brand, that mark of ownership..."just make sure people know he's yours." Everyone who sees Jason's face now will know what happened.
That third scene, though...it's not a torture scene. Joker isn't doing anything to Jason until he shoots him. But we can see the evidence of brainwashing all over the place. Jason's completely broken by this point- he's not resisting anymore. He's saying exactly what the Joker wants to hear, hoping that he won't be punished for it. And he gets shot.
Jason really is Joker's slave by the third scene. Joker says plainly, "He's mine. Mine, mine, mine. To do with as I wish." Jason would never have been the Joker's sidekick, he would have been his slave. Joker owns him. And what breaks my heart is that complete defeat in his voice when Joker asks him who Batman is. That quiet, "Of course, sir." Jason might just as well have called the Joker "Master."
But to me, the worst part is how the Joker phrases his taunts to Batman. "Did you hear that, Bats? Kid's not yours anymore. He's mine. Mine, mine, mine. To do with as I wish." The worst part of that isn't the fact that Joker has essentially enslaved Jason. It's that second line- "Kid's not yours anymore." Jason's sitting right there. He can hear that. And that line- "not yours anymore"- suggests that Jason belonged to Bruce. That before he was Joker's slave, he was Batman's. And if Joker had killed him with that gunshot, he would have died thinking that he would always be owned by someone, that he would always be a slave in some way.
@@somethingwicked7869
Comments like these make me truly realize how complex the writing in these games are
He was 16 when this was all happening to him
Arguably one of the best scenes ever gaming history , no game tied me down this much narratively.
I felt so bad for Jason, this made me realise how truly of an iconic figure he is. He was emotionally and physically mentally distorted until he was numb and was indoctrinated to believe jokers twisted reality so that he really did resent batman we all saw the extremes he took to kill batman but in the end his conscious of morality caught up in his broken mind so he would do the right thing. This was truly captivating and I think Jason Todd / Red Hood / Robin is my new favourite character! What a hero. :)
You know what makes this funnier than it should, the fact that this all the fans faults. They're the ones who wanted Jason dead lol.
JayD965 I am still asking myslf why, he was Kind of sweet in the Comics in the 80ies. But a lot was changed about his character.
***** I heard from a friend that the comic writers back then were getting death threats if they didn't kill off Jason, and that was part of the reason why Jason was killed as well.
+JayD965 It was a hacker who rigged the votes,m9
@@kirak1561 well we got an awesome character out of it
DeathFor True, but honestly I liked Jason as Robin more than as Red Hood.
00:52
i'm just gonna hurtcha.. really.. really.. bad.
bruh
Fam.......
Man
Serafim B same joker bro
Serafim B stop hurting us with painful movie references! Lmfao xD
I'M FINE JASON!--er tim....
Demonte Price LOLOLOL
Demonte Price OOOOoooooo lol XD.
When Jason say ,, No, he wouldn't" my heart broke
This is why I really liked the Arkham Knight as a villain, he's probably the only Batman villain who has legitimate grievances against him, it's chilling to think about what a year of torture under Joker would be like. Arkham Knight is definitely one of the highlights for this gen of consoles.
*Playing through this for the first time*
Hmmmm I wonder why they're making me pay attention to this hmmm I WONDER?
yeah I know and then I started piecing it together
I knew as soon as I heard Troy Baker's voice, and I don't really know anything about Batman lore. Still think they handled it very well though. Poor Jason.
I didn't even need that I just went... Hey where's Jason heard he was in... Wait he's red hood isn't he yup yeah that's it OH LOOK INWAS RIGHT
What do u mean
*"Im fine Jas-Tim.."*
The feels
I actually screamed, and now I'm weeping in my room. Great.
I actually prefer this version of Jason todds story to the comic books. It makes more sense that he never actually died and was just tortured. In the comic books he's revived because superboy prime punches reality and causes Jason's death to have never occurred. Yes he punches fucking reality....also torturing Jason to break his will seems like something the joker would do
Seun Sofowora Actually I also prefer the AK Version. This makes way more sense.
I prefer Jason being revived by the Lazarus Pit tbh. It gave him more of the insane mind and legit revival than the SBP punching reality
Whenever I see the Joker I always think of 2 incarnations: Heath Ledger's EXTREMELY dark take and Ceasar Romero, the very light take. Then I see Hamill's and think "Oh, its light with a bit of darkness mixed in". That is until I played Arkham Knight, which was the first thing to shock me in gaming for years! I never thought of Hammil as THIS evil, so when I played this and saw the branding scene I kid you not I dropped my controller.
WARNING SPOILERS
Barbara shooting herself in the head, the Batmobile torture scene, the cop shooting everyone in the diner, Henry Adams "Joker" suicide and killing scene, these scenes, The Killing Joke scene with Barbara getting shot in the back, the Professor Pyg confrontation scene, Batman snapping Joker's neck scene in the end, you and you as the Joker, being able to shoot people down in the end, is what really gave this game an M lol(/spoiler)
They sorta censored Barbara shooting herself in the head. Also, didn't they do something like that in Arkham City? With Rās impaling himself in attempt to kill Batman.
Jason was wrapped in barbed wire :( his story arc is so sad ;-;
"World's Greatest Detective" ...Ha.
This is the actual "Arkham Knight identity revealed" moment.
I felt very sorry for Jason, by the way.
5:28 R.I.P headphone users
Notice the cockroach symbol surrounding Jason's chair! The same logo from the first game in which you unlocked Amadeus Arkham's messages! Foreshadowing him being the Arkham Knight! :O
It looks kind of like Jason was shot in the chest where his robin symbol would be, and on Batman's armor the bat symbol is the strongest point. Maybe that's how Jason survived.
In comic, Jason death and resurrected using Ra's Al Ghul Lazarus pit
@@moseslimardo7311 no that was in the other version there are multiple
Yeah he was shot it it was his symbol that deleted the shot in the Arkham comics joker did try to shoot him but when he survived joke took him to a different location and continued to torture him and that’s where he got slades help and escaped
@@careyberendsen I just knew about this version, thanks for information ^^
I think these scenes are the reason the game got an M rating, worth it.
This scene is sad (but at least we got Red hood) but the Joker makes everything so funny
I know why they call him the Joker
Anyone got the refrence ?
Batman just standing there seeing Jason being tortured
It's a flashback.
its kinda sad when you think about it too much, i mean, its not real, but things like this actually CAN happen in real life. Idk why pple would want to make a story about that!
Lazertazer444 The point is to show how evil The Joker is.
Lazertazer444 sorry next time our next super hero's orgins will be about puppys licking his face without his own will , he will be called "daisy man" -DC
Xehanort10 i guess you're right
People didn't like Jason so they got rid of him by letting joker do the honors of shooting him beating him with a crowbar branding him blowing him up
Michael Robinson that suks, cuz he was my favorite
And I thought joker was demented before.
what i find most disturbing is jason calling the joker sir, it makes my skin crawl as how bad the joker mutilated, demasculated jason, and just turned him into some kind of lesser being, this game is fucking dark, excellent story work
This sort of thing happens in real life, and might be the reason for them they decided on centering the game around him as the militaristic leader Arkham Knight rather than directly as the vigilante Red Hood, to put emphasis on it being a battlefield. As he ranted, "I was just a child, you made me into a soldier and sent me to war." War can traumatize people, and it doesn't matter how badass you are, torture is inhumane and can break you, physically and emotionally.
PossessedbyPhoenix Torture is quite humane. Only humans do it. To say it's inhumane is like saying something other than humans do it. Like being cruel is inhuman. Humane? Inhumane? What silly words to define humans as strictly compassionate entities.
Never could stand a tattle tale. Idk why but that's a funny line
Kind of reminds me of one scene in batman: return of the joker where joker completely transforms Tim Drake into Joker jr. Joker is humorously terrifying. if there are gg to be another set of batman movies; i hope they'll make them as dark as their animated counterparts.
Jokers got fuckin quick-draw on that gun.
proof that jason Todd is one of the three jokers and joker hypnotized him and beat him to insanity and jason biggest identity is now the joker new 52 joker to be exact and because jason came back from the Lazarus pit he is immortal and in the new 52 jokers bio he is immortal and if you listen to one of the torture scenes it sounds like he is spraying him and writing on him and which when you look at the suicide squad joker he looks like the tattoos where written or sprayed on also one of the tattoos says damaged and in the episode where jason Todd comes to life by ras al ghul he says but returned to the world (damaged) because he felt batman the closest person to him at the time just let him die and for that has tryed many identity covers including the arkham knight and red hood but his biggest attempt yet is the identity of the joker and in the batman vs superman movie Bruce Wayne says how many good guys stayed that way which is referring to Harvey dent who turnt to two face and also Jason Todd and duriwitglis there's a statue that says haha jokes on you and the big joke is that jason is the joker and batman didn't realise it and then because he is immortal and that he is jason Todd he knows batman couldn't kill him after the guilt he felt so there for he could get his revenge on batman for letting him die and haunt him forever and that's why new 52 joker looks so young and the only reason Harley Quinn is in love with him is because he has the same twisted mind as the joker and therefore making it so obvious yet complicated for batman as the joker will truly never die as there is no joker with out batman and there is no batman without joker as both batman and joker are obsessed with each other and this is wouldn't be the first time a robin became a joker just like Tim drake jason can become a joker and because batman has a never ending cycle of sidekicks they are just as vulnerable and the joker cycle will never end.
NEEEERD
***** how do you know.I did research
There was 1 joker and Jason Todd is a different villain
they did such a good job with Jason the eye emotion with the lights and tones on that part of him wow just omgs!
damn, this is really harsh...
Any likability the Joker had before watching these scenes just drains away. Now I wish he could be killed a second time. Slower.
5:27 that part really caught me off guard it's so well done
These cut scenes were absolutely brilliant. I've finished everything but my remaining Riddler challenges. Can't wait to go back and play again.
No sidekicks eh? Well what about little old Harley? What do you call her!
his main hoe
His bottom
She breaks him out of jail
Hired help. In the New Batman Adventures episode Mad Love Batman even says to Harley "Wake up Harleen. He had you pegged for hired help the minute you walked into Arkham."
The fact that the game randomly went "I know you want to fight some bosses, but JASON TODD RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW" kinda spoiled the ending.
Thanks for not talking through this btw that was really cool of you
If they showed us these scenes after The Arkham Knight's identity was revealed, it MIGHT have not been so predictable.
Why bother making it m for mature if they're just gonna censor the violence?
Fucking seriously? People were flipping their shit over what happened to Oracle, when literally nothing ACTUALLY happened to her. Meanwhile, Jason goes through worse shit than literally anything to happen to Oracle throughout all of DC comics history, and everyone turns a blind eye?
Joker is so crazy and he put that J on his face
J - Joker
- Jason
....... T_T oh dang-it Jason. T_T
Where exactly in Arkham asylum was Jason kept? You explore the whole island in Asylum, but you never see any evidence of this
it happened way before the events of the game so of course there is no evidence anymore
Danni Liliac well Jason was tortured during the time of the interview tapes, Witch take place 1 year before Arkham asylum. Plus in Arkham knight gennissis ( a comic series based on what happened before Arkham knight ) it's revealed that he what still being tortured by Harley and joker during Arkham asylum, and just before the joker-titan boss fight deathstroke helped him escape.
The Arkham Knight comics are non canon. Jason was tortured years before the events of Arkham Asylum. He wasn't still being tortured during Arkham Asylum because he was already long gone and had become The Arkham Knight by then. Deathstroke didn't help him escape either. Joker himself let Jason go after he faked his death, satisfied that he'd completely broken him and turned him against Batman and planning to use Jason as a weapon against Batman at some point but he never got the chance before Joker died of his Titan disease in Arkham City. Jason was only tortured in the asylum for a year. For him to have been there until the events of Arkham Asylum he'd have to have been tortured for years which he wasn't.
Jason was in arkham asylum
Reddit link shows the easter egg
amp.reddit.com/r/BatmanArkham/comments/e614s7/red_hood_easter_egg_in_batman_arkham_asylum/
if u look in doctor young office there’s a room with the same markings on the floor as seen in arkham knight and there a wheelchair in the corner with the wheel still spinning a little easter egg
These flashbacks were obviously based partly on Death in the Family and also on Batman Beyond Return of the Joker where Joker tortured Tin Drake and turned him into Joker Jr.
Batman's a bit of a dick for replacing Jason after only six months.
a BIT of a dick? He is a total Jerk!!!
Ok, here is something g most fans forget:
TIM VOLUNTEERED TO BE ROBIN. He asked for the suit, it's likely here that he took the spot originally to be a temp to find Jason. Anyone ever think of that?
+Sanjay Raju but Jason Todd was the one who left batman to save his mom
Sanjay Raju And again, did you NOT see the fact that Tim volunteered for it? Its not like Batman searched for a replacement out of the blue.
The branding is what fucked me up most but everything else stilled fucked me up FUCK to dark
As obvious as this "Plot" twist was (People on the forums were calling it even 7 months before the release, Read DITF comics) It still makes me sick how joker did this to todd.
I actually was physically ill when i saw this, What a fucked up sack of shit and it's a shame bat's didn't break his "No kill" rule just once....
Samithon James I know how you feel. The part when he burnt the J onto his face fucked me up.
david smith is the j for joker or Jason?
assassinscreed700 it's for Joker. Joker branded Jason as if to mean Jason belonged to him.
SPOILER ALERT
near the the of the game you get to kill joker l, he comes back to life and they you get to lock him away in a cage
slopcrusher joker doesn't come back to life, Batman was locking him deep in his subconscious to get over the fear gas, and even if it were real, locking someone away in a solitary confinement cell isn't killing
Being tortured by the Joker for over a year. That's enough to drive pretty much anyone insane, there's virtually no limit to what the Joker is capable of. I think hell would be more pleasant than that
+Ryan Wiuff And the scary part is Joker probably did worse to Jason than the 3 parts the game shows you.
+Xehanort10 a guy pointed out that how did Jason go to the bathroom
Kyle Shea I could see Joker giving Jason a bucket to piss in then kicking it away just as he starts to have one. That's definitely something I imagine him doing.
I still don't get how he's still alive and how he was able to get an army and all that equipment
Lazarus Pit
i hate how they didnt show us that
He was never killed in this story arch he was tortured for a year
Fixingshredder He gets shot and killed..he definitely died. Joker even mentions it in AC how he killed him
but how did he get his army?
3:05 that shit fucked me up when I was playing it
MY NAME IS REEK!
Jason was tortured by the Joker for over a year and then killed. This reminds me about the case of Sylvia Likens in IN. in 1965. 16 year old Sylvia Likens was who tortured to death from August to October 1965. look it up the case is close to this.
Jason, my poor baby, noooooooo! Q~Q :::>.
Are you his mom or girlfriend? Lololol
I was texting my friend when I saw harley quinn and he responded, "Your about to see the knight." I saw jason and i responded "It's jason isn't it?" Then he said "lol ya." Then jason got shot and i responded "are you sure lol?"
Okay. I don't want hate. But they seriously need to make a batman show with all the robins. Not just dick. Or just Tim and dick. No. All. Dick(Nightwing). Jason(Red Hood). Tim(Red Robin). Damian(Robin). And the bargirls. Cmon. Barb(Oracle). Cass(Black Bat). Steph(Spoiler)
It really paints a real grim reminder that despite how funny Joker may act, he truly is deep down a pure evil psychopathic monster.
It's sick :(
Joker broke his body, mind, and his spirit. I do feel genuinely bad for Jason.
How would Batman have these memories?
I was wondering the same thing
Because he has Jokers blood in him that's why he can see Jason Todd getting tortured and seeing Barbara being shot by the Joker
***** Yeah, but having the Jokers blood doesn't mean he has his brain cells... imagine if everyone got memories from every blood transfusion.
Joker sent him a video of jason being tortured when your fighting arkam night batman mentions it.
Thunder Flash Yeah I get that part but not the other two.
Ya know, when they showed this, I knew where this was going.
Who is the big, bad bat? His name. Tell me.
Of course, sir. It's-
*Gun Shot* O_o
Can i just say, its so sad seeing a normally charasmatic character like jason being broken down like that
Originally this was my theory for the arkham knight but I quit on it cuz I thought that would be to predictable because Jason Todd has done jack shit in the arkham series but as soon as he called batman "old" I was like god dammit rocksteady y couldn't u have made it Jim Gordon now that right there would have been a good twist, they constantly threw hints in our faces regarding his identity anyways
I was hoping it was gonna be Damien Wayne. It would've made sense since his mother Talia died in Arkham City and he could've used that to fuel his revenge by blaming batman.
Juan Ramirez I agree.
you know why Jim Gordon would have been a twist? Cuz it's an absolutely horrible idea. Surprise doesn't necessarily equal great, otherwise we could have had Rosie o donell as the arkham knight, what a twist!
jimmy mustard I think it was a joke.
Juan Ramirez Damian was such a horrible and poorly made character
That's how Joker did Jason Todd.
Third part is most scary.
I think im the only person who laughed watching all of these.
You're the Joker
Thunder Goku that's the plan
Luna Aggerholm what is the matter with you?
Me too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D
You psycho.
Every time I watch this it breaks my heart especially when Jason gets branded. Just hearing him beg and scream makes me want to cry. Poor Jason. T_T
I know!! Jason was so strong and rebellious as Robin, and even in the first torture scene. By the branding, though, he's lost all hope. And in the third one, poor boy's completely broken.
OK number one Jason was shot with BODY AROUMOR because joker put it on him number Jason escaped during jokers prison break number three joker Paid death stroke to kill Jason but Jason paid death stroke first they both worked together for a tiny bit until Jason left him then Jason became TEH RED HODD *cheer cheer* thank u 💃💃💃 fabulus!
I felt so bad for Jason.
Damn, why i see this in the suggested one video list?
Whatever... the title is already sufficient.
THANKS FOR SPOILER, BIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH.
I remember seeing this scene a few days ago, when I first beat the game. Jason's scream is horrifying. To think that he went through a year of torture by the Joker.
I can only imagine how Bruce felt when he found out about the Arkham Knight's true identity.
I can only imagine what else Joker did to Jason that the game didn't show us. If you look closely at the character during each flashback, there are new scars and wounds every time.
0:50 I'm just gonna hurt ya! Really, really, BAD!
This was hard to watch considering Jason was my favorite Robin.
This is hearbreaking, does anyone else feel like they want to save Jason Todd?
0:49 Heath Ledger's Joker
The bullet hit the body armor
Joker's facial animation is incredible in the scene where his face is on the screens. So chilling.