@@vacuuz surely we don't need to put more pressure on the refs? They suffer enough abuse already. If we mic them up they'll get abuse every time they don't coddle a prima donna (from the player's fanbase).
@@arsenalrocka16 Have you seen how football fans who are obsessed by a player act online? There's no way that refs could speak freely to the players with a mic on them. Players claim fouls all the time over nothing and will argue even the most obvious rulings. The ref has to be able to say no freely and clearly. If the obsessives fans could hear that the ref would suffer so much extra abuse. We've already got an issue with ref abuse in football. I only vaguely follow rugby. Players seem to spend less time arguing with the ref and claiming false fouls. Maybe rugby fans are less virulent when it comes to players they like too. Doubt it would be good for football refs.
Of course. A system can only judge if the player is closer to the opponents goal than the second last defender. It cannot judge if that player is interfering with play or an opponent and therefore committing the offence of offside, rather than being in an offside position, which is not an offence in itself.
There has to be a change for offside rule as such. I can tell you that whoever came up with this rule his intention was not to judge whether someone's nose is behind the last opposition player.
No, it was actually worse than that. Players were not even allowed to be level, let alone have their noses in-front of the defender, and it was 3 defenders, not just 2 like today. The law these days is very soft compared to the original law.
@El Lobo it’s just moving the line. Wherever you draw the line, the difference between being offside or onside will always be 1mm. You change it to be the full body and people will go ‘he’s only 1mm past his opponent, that’s not really an advantage, let’s make it 6 inches instead' and then they’ll go ‘he’s only just past 6 inches ahead, that’s not gaining an advantage, let’s move it again'.
And let’s not forget that offside used to punish any player, not just the one receiving the ball, so a left winger could be offside when the ball was passed to a right winger 60 yards away.
2:30 Sorry Pierluigi but this is exactly the problem with this proposal. No-one complains about goal-line technology for example precisely because the officials are bypassed - it’s fully automated and completely undisputed. Seeing you brings back the amazing PES 3 vibes though so no hard feelings.
The offside rule should only take into consideration the feet position of each player, it’s completely ridiculous that a player is ruled offsides just because his arm could’ve been extended outwards but still he lined up on or behind the feet position of the defender. I get that the ball can be played with multiple parts on the body like shoulders, chest, head etc. But this will simplify and not make decisions come down to an attacker’s head being extended over a defenders heel. It should be measured feet vs feet position and that’s it.
Agreed, everyone has proposals for how to 'fix' the offside rule but they would only make it more contrived, this is the one. Gives a small advantage back to the attacker and simplifies the rule.
Sort of unrelated, but the reason the Leeds-Man U game was so entertaining was that the ref allowed the players to play on a bit more than usual. That let the game flow better. So making faster VAR decisions will also allow that to happen.
I can see the arguments for offside to be more forgiving but at the end of the day it's just better for everyone if there's no grey area or room for error so it's as fair as possible.
I'm conflicted about all this. Precision is (obviously) non-negotiable where officiating is concerned. At the same time, the current technology is already more precise than human-eye judgments, and in my opinion renders judgements that are too harsh. If I'm looking at an overhead angle freeze-frame with a line drawn on the screen across the whole pitch and I still can't tell if a player was on-side or not, how was the player on the field supposed to know? What were they supposed to have done differently? If you want to be maximally precise, that's great, but at a certain point it becomes absurd to hold humans to standards set by robots. The algorithms need a "close enough" setting.
They could build that in. Personally I think the rules should be redrawn so that you're only offside if your foot is further ahead than the defenders feet. But there will always be an issue with precision, if you allow a 5cm gap, some players will be 4.9cm and some will be 5.1cm. That happened even before technology, but even worse because officials would call offside when the player wasn't.
I agree. In my view the offside rule should be simplified as follows: if a player is visibly offside to the referee's eye, he's offside. Of it's unclear, call it level and allow the goal. Simple.
So to put it into words so everyone can understand The robot cameras will track players on the pitch, and each time a player is beyond the line of offside when that passing tap is “heard”, the robots will tell the the VAR people whi was beyond the line of the offside example “Messi and Mbappe are offside” even if the ball was not sent to them or to a player beyond the opponent defense line VAR in turn look if they (Messi or Mbappe) interfered with the play, and if they did not then its not offside, if one of them did, then it is and they tell the referee and the side man The 1inch in offside position is not the annoying part of the VAR decision, after all it is a fair decision if we read the game’s rules The annoying part is the time we wait from the moment a player scores to the moment of VAR’s decision which is usually after we’ve celebrated like crazy This method shortens the VAR decision time by a lot and makes the decision within seconds just like before the VAR and I’m all for it
There seems to be a weird desire for the referee to remain the focal point for decision making... Why is this? My belief is that the referee should only be there to announce the decisions that, those in a better position than themselves, have made. If a computer and/or those with many screens (equipt with rewind, zoom, slow-mo etc) are able to referee games to a better standard than a person with a whistle (which is obvious and inevitable), why are sticking with an outdated and flawed method? I've seen countless instances where the entire televised viewing audience knows the outcome of the decision before the referee does! There should be a 10 second window to make the decision... If it takes longer than that, it therefore isn't clear cut and play goes on!
accessibility. your local park doesn't have the same features a world class stadium does and FIFA's guidelines/principles is that the game should be played the same everywhere (as much as possible)
@@calvinl3421 Not even just local parks. Most clubs outside of the top leagues wouldn't be able to afford such a large added cost, nor would most confederations. CONCACAF didn't even implement VAR until this most recent international competition window in part due to the costs of setting it up being too high for the smaller nations.
All of this only makes things more accurate if the ball can be tracked to perfectly know the moment it is played forward, otherwise the argument about frame rates and freeze frames not showing the right moment and therefore the lines being inaccurate doesn’t change. This just takes away the time it takes the VAR to draw a couple of lines and doesn’t do anything to really increase actual accuracy or the competence of decision making.
I want to see VAR used for out of bounds, so the correct team gets the ball. this is very important when it comes to corners vs goal kicks. they should be able to have enough cameras and people that they can within a couple seconds give a correction if needed.
When the cameras are tracking players, do they only track 22 players on the field? What about a scenario with players are being subbed on, are the targets for cameras manually switched to oncoming players? Are they also manually switched off for players who are on the touchline injured and therefore out of play? Is there a possibility that if a player were to go out of sight of a camera, say he falls behind the advertisement hoarding, and someone in the crowd in a jersey were to jump on, does the camera start tracking them instead, or are the cameras aided by the packs that players often wear on themselves below their shirts to record various physical statistics? The same goes for balls that are occasionally thrown onto the pitch by fans. It's an interesting concept but there are many scenarios I wonder whether the technology will get confused, as they haven't explained the concept in detail other than it's aided by 'AI' recognition.
@@VintageFootballVault The people in charge often think technology is infallible in practice, until some guy comes along with a laser and ruins millions of Pounds in research. It's almost impressive
Speaking of lasers, I still feel like there’s not enough retribution done for those who shine them in the players’ faces when a penalty is about to be taken
unless you can train your AI to decide what is considered 'interfering with play' and what isn't then the technology is not quite ready yet. the semi-automated system however does sound reasonable.
Someone said the best change to offsides would be if any part of the attackers body is even or behind the second to last defender then he would be onsides
With the amount of cameras that are available in competitions which use the VAR, I'm surprised they haven't looked at cricket and rugby as examples. It can easily be solved by utilizing VAR as the third umpire/television match official.
Why make it even more complicated? Just implement a time limit on a decision to be made. If you can't tell within 15 sec if someone is offside, he/she is equal and thus onside.
Hmm... Interesting. I would have thought tiny GPS sensors sewed into the waist band of the shorts might be a better system but I suppose a camera set up is easier to check and calibrate and doesn't need to involve coordinating with the clubs directly.
If it’s used correctly then it’ll be good. That said VAR still has it’s issues so I expect they’ll probably use it wrong initially, probably with them putting too much confidence in it.
You want to speed the game up? Well, I prefer to look at the NBA. The pace is an all time high. Rules like 8 second violation: Once you touch the ball, you have 8 seconds to bring the ball up the halfway line. If you fail to reach the halfway line, it is an automatic turnover. Another rule like backcourt violation. If you’re on the opponent’s half and you decide to pass the halfway line, it’s an automatic turnover. Imagine implementing these rule in the premier league. For example, you have 15 seconds to bring the ball to the halfway line. This will encourage teams who doesn’t have the ball to start pressing or if a team has the ball, force them to bring the ball up the halfway line. Is 15 seconds too short? How about 30 seconds? Is 30 seconds too long? A turnover will results a free kick. Another rule like shot clock violation. A team has 24 seconds to put the ball in the hoop. Imagine implementing this rule in the premier league. For example, a team has 5 minutes to score. If you fail to score in 5 minutes, results in turnover. You know what will speed the game up the MOST? Get rid of offsides. Imagine the amazing counter attacks transitions.
Firstly: Why not go from the head? Get these flailing arms and trailing legs out of the equation Secondly: surely it’s better to stick with the on-field decision, in cases where the decision is within a couple of inches
how does making precise calculations of a player’s position support the intention of “advantage to the attacking team”? It’s like they’re using technology to counteract the “law” of the game of which is already confusing and counterintuitive to “speeding things up”.
Just make offside A ) only in the box so it that will stretch the teams B) not offside in the box so team will leave forwards in the box and stretch the team again
"Officials will still have the final decision". So there will still be situations where referees make the wrong decision despite VAR and image proof and it will also keep corruption alive, cheers fifa
This would be great if combined with a offside rule change so that the rule is not so ridiculously arbitrary in the way they judge you off side for swinging an arm slightly in front of a defender.
Actually we don't. Current state of the art ai is very good in finding patterns, but it does not understand the context of a situation and the abstract concepts used to make decisions. You could use a rule-based approach, but then again reality is simply too complicated and nuanced to be pressed into a fixed set of rules with hard thresholds. So either way a part of the decisions would be obviously wrong to a human, because the human understands the context of the situation and the ai does not.
Even though the push to increase technology in football is great, I do wonder why is there such a fuss over the time taken for offside decisions so important? Set pieces such as throw-ins, goal kicks and even defensive free kicks tend to waste more time than anything else. Why not introduce a stop clock that can monitor the time being wasted by players or coaches or even referees. We need to reduce the time ball is not in play to increase the intensity when it is in play and THEN introduce this technology. World Cup 2022 will be a weird one.
Because the build up for a free kick is nice for spectators. It give you time to judge their chances and builds up tension. Waiting to see if a goal counts or not is just annoying for most people.
When I took a referee class about 20 years ago, they mentioned that “natural” breaks from goals, throws, goal kicks were expected to be part of the game and accounted for in the 90 minutes. I’m all for defining “natural” as 20 seconds for a throw in, goal kick, or when the keeper is holding the ball, and any time above that is automatically added to stoppage time. It takes out the yellow for time wasting (which helps the stalling player by taking more time to give the card).
I like the idea of stopping the clock when the ball is out of play. Do that and introduce time limits for taking throw ins and goal kicks, much like how the goalie now is only allowed to handle the ball for a set amount of time.
It sounds bonkers. If it's a clear and obvious Offside they shouldn't be required to wait until the play is over. If it's a close offside they should absolutely wait. It's a better solution. They have a whistle for a reason and they should use it when needed.
The problem is that fans/pundits will never be satisfied. They can't seem to get over the fact that every solution involves some compromise. They want VAR to be quick so it doesn't interrupt the flow of the game, but then they'll say "what's the point of VAR if it lets decisions like this be made" when there's any mistake. And every time there's inconsistency between two games, everyone gets outraged rather than accepting that a world without inconsistent decisions in a game this complex is impossible. It's about trying to balance these competing problems and minimising them, but eliminating them is almost impossible.
always thinking on why not just use the same technology that has been implemented on goal line check. Different is the chips are plan/put into the tip point of players boots and shoulders. Then doing the realtime check to compare the attacker's furthest coordinate vs the last defender's when the ball got passed/kicked
Think the issue with that is you can score with other parts of your body and if those parts are offside but their feet are onside it would say onside when they were actually off
I don't understand why, with any new technology added to the game, there's a need to showcase that this new feature will not 'diminish' the referee's authority or something. For God's sake. I for one can't wait until there are no referees at all. Fully automated decision making FTW. As long as we can see it on a broadcast, and it is transparent, all good on my books.
A fully automated decision can also fail. For example Sheffield United was denied a goal vs Aston Villa because of failed goal line technology, even though the officials saw physically that the ball crossed the line. So it's good that human has some kind of authority in case if the technology fails.
@@umarabdaziz760 an interesting middle ground might be fully automated technology with a human referee on standby as "supervisor", able to override the decision when the technology has clearly failed or glitched. Halfway through typing that I just realized I reversed the roles so the humans are VAR for the VAR 😆😆
True, but there have been 0 good proposals. From anyone. And do we still want to be able to play an offside-trap, or is it only there to stop teams playing hoofball with 1 striker in the enemy box?
@@aseq2 both. the rule just needs to be made simpler to understand and to judge. this technology helps referees. what needs to be done for the rule to work consistently is my proposal: if a player is in an offside position, it should not matter who he receives the ball from. in its current state, the additional review, deciding whether a defender player last touched the ball and whether it was an "intended back pass" is stupid and in 2022 complicates things unnecessarily.
It can't be a bad thing. I mean current linesmen are basically semi useless anyway. Only flagging sixteen phases after the original offside and not wanting to flag because the onus then lies on them rather than VAR after the event.
It's hard to determine offsides nowadays, hopefully in the future the imaginary line for offsides will be implemented in real time in order to determine if it is on or offside, just like NFL's yellow imaginary line for 1st downs, blue imaginary line for line of srimmage and red imaginary line for field goal line...
They need to change the rule to be more general and in line the the original spirit of the rule: no cherry-picking. As long as players' mid-sections are within half a meter of each other they should let it play.
I think everytime there is an office decision each fan in the stadium should get a button like on who wants to be a millionaire, and they should decide if its offside or not
Next year: Fifa plans to implement pixel accurate line for Sao technology to be relayed to Var technology to var officials to the referee in the pitch. Lol
I have a sinking feeling about this. I don't think anything good will come of getting a computer to decide on something as game-critical as offside. Certainly, I don't think it will reduce offside controversies one bit.
Not being funny but isn't this quite an easy thing to get right? It's just a matter of getting an ultra quality camera able to follow the players in real time. With the right camera in the right place we don't need to do any guessing, it will be clear when the camera is zoomed in. And yes, show this on the screens at the stadium so the fans can see it too.
I hate the VAR and it should go. I don't care that it tries to make the game "fair" and fix mistakes, the emotion football brought to people is gone. That emotion made place for people not celebrating immediately, hating the referee's more, longer extra time because everyone has to wait to up to 5 minutes each half etc. The game is simply more fun if decisions are not seen. Like the Maradona Hand of God, Lampard's clear but dissalowed goal, Nigel de Jong's flying kick to the chest, Sumunic who got 3 yellow cards, How Chelsea had a pretty bad referee against Barcelona in 2009. I could go on. This is what football should have.
I'm all for it but as long as officials aren't open with how they came up with their decisions or what specific rules they are referencing to during games (like what happens in the NFL in the US) then fans will always fill the news cycle with refereeing decisions
If these cameras spot that someone is offside and therefore send the red light to the linesman's watch.....how does the linesman know whether this relates to a player who is (or is not) interfering with play?
Would this tool support referees to make decisions only for goals scored, or for all passes played? The "red light at the watch of the linesman" sounded more like the latter; i.e. an extension of VAR's current scope of responsibility.
Let’s all be honest with ourselves, football was more fun before VAR was around. I think Football should include bad offside decisions, automating the sport is the death of it. Let there be bad decisions that fans have to get over. There’s too much money in the game that people feel we need to address this. You won’t find automated offside robots in league 2 so why should the big buck teams get it. It’s an attempt to protect their finances from rouge football decisions and who cares. Let referees and linesmen do their jobs and if there’s an offside call that’s so obvious it only takes 5 seconds for a VAR to confirm then overturn it but otherwise stop pouring over the replays in slow mo and get on with the game
What exactly is a clear and obvious error? Because sometimes a player is a toe nail, or finger are past the offside line. But that's not a clear and obvious error.
I’m all for innovation but this type of stuff kinda kills the drama for me. Yes I want the correct decisions in the end, but VAR was already a killjoy to begin with.
Imo I just feel the bigger line that PL do now, could just be even bigger. I don't care if I let in a goal that are marginally offside because of a toe or a arm in the wrong angle. It's easy to see if they are offside then so the decision should happen quickly and if they are offside or not then it's so obvious nobody can be angry.
Roman Abramovich just relinquish stewardship of chelsea could you do a video about the impact on future transfers and if he may need to permanently sell the club
Just do it like MLS no lines, only overturn the call if the decision was clear and obviously wrong. If it’s so close that you need to draw lines then either way the original call by the referee is not a bad one.
Next step, cameras tracking your finger movement at the office. For how many minutes were you actually typing?! We all know that the things we can measure by machine are more important than value perceived by a human.
Why can't they just add sensors to the boots of the players or somewhere on their bodies to create these lines on the field , when an attacking player crosses the defensive line created by these sensors on the players , the offside flag is triggered , and will stay active until the offside player returns to an onside position .
In principle, yes, but we do find a demonstrable bias towards the super rich clubs (surely the money alone should have been enough of an advantage for them?) which makes modern football incredibly tedious.
If it's human error rather than skill that attracts you to the game, I imagine that under 7s is more appealing to you than Champions League football? Watching beautiful goals being incorrectly chalked off, players getting away with biting, or getting away with handling the ball isn't what makes the game beautiful... That is the igky side to it: injustice and corruption! The beautiful part is the game itself, played fairly and honourably, with skill and passion!
People complain about var but offside has never been more accurate... Now they complain because it's unfair that someone's toe is offside but it's offside
Yeah I'm surprised it's still so controversial. Refs still have a role to play, ensuring that the game flows smoothly. Let the perfect system worry about telling them about fouls.
I’m all for it- VAR decisions need to be shown on screen for fans in the stadium too.
and mic up the referees
@@vacuuz surely we don't need to put more pressure on the refs? They suffer enough abuse already. If we mic them up they'll get abuse every time they don't coddle a prima donna (from the player's fanbase).
@@vacuuz Like in the NFL, where the referee has to explain every decision to the audience? No, that would be horrible.
@@mnm1273 works fine in rugby
@@arsenalrocka16 Have you seen how football fans who are obsessed by a player act online? There's no way that refs could speak freely to the players with a mic on them. Players claim fouls all the time over nothing and will argue even the most obvious rulings. The ref has to be able to say no freely and clearly. If the obsessives fans could hear that the ref would suffer so much extra abuse. We've already got an issue with ref abuse in football.
I only vaguely follow rugby. Players seem to spend less time arguing with the ref and claiming false fouls. Maybe rugby fans are less virulent when it comes to players they like too.
Doubt it would be good for football refs.
Just give electric shock to the player offside and incapacitate him.
Morata will become Thor
@@rohitdutta4548 Hahahha
@@rohitdutta4548 LMAO
@@rohitdutta4548 ahahahahh lmao
@@rohitdutta4548 LOL
Var will still make the final decision😂😂😂
Ref*
Of course. A system can only judge if the player is closer to the opponents goal than the second last defender. It cannot judge if that player is interfering with play or an opponent and therefore committing the offence of offside, rather than being in an offside position, which is not an offence in itself.
As a time progress these things can be fully automated
@@jishnuviswanath I disagree.
@@danpreston564 what do you disagree, that system would become as good as the best referee or wouldn't used.
Sounds great. The technology is definitely capable of doing it and it will save a lot of time.
There has to be a change for offside rule as such. I can tell you that whoever came up with this rule his intention was not to judge whether someone's nose is behind the last opposition player.
Someone speaking facts
Also if the opposition player is on the other side of the pitch, what difference does an inch forward or back make
No, it was actually worse than that. Players were not even allowed to be level, let alone have their noses in-front of the defender, and it was 3 defenders, not just 2 like today. The law these days is very soft compared to the original law.
@El Lobo it’s just moving the line. Wherever you draw the line, the difference between being offside or onside will always be 1mm. You change it to be the full body and people will go ‘he’s only 1mm past his opponent, that’s not really an advantage, let’s make it 6 inches instead' and then they’ll go ‘he’s only just past 6 inches ahead, that’s not gaining an advantage, let’s move it again'.
And let’s not forget that offside used to punish any player, not just the one receiving the ball, so a left winger could be offside when the ball was passed to a right winger 60 yards away.
2:30 Sorry Pierluigi but this is exactly the problem with this proposal. No-one complains about goal-line technology for example precisely because the officials are bypassed - it’s fully automated and completely undisputed. Seeing you brings back the amazing PES 3 vibes though so no hard feelings.
For me seeing him brings back memories of him disallowing a Duncan Ferguson away goal against Villarreal for no reason in the CL qualifiers.
The offside rule should only take into consideration the feet position of each player, it’s completely ridiculous that
a player is ruled offsides just because his arm could’ve been extended outwards but still he lined up on or behind the feet position of the defender. I get that the ball can be played with multiple parts on the body like shoulders, chest, head etc. But this will simplify and not make decisions come down to an attacker’s head being extended over a defenders heel. It should be measured feet vs feet position and that’s it.
Agreed, everyone has proposals for how to 'fix' the offside rule but they would only make it more contrived, this is the one. Gives a small advantage back to the attacker and simplifies the rule.
Sort of unrelated, but the reason the Leeds-Man U game was so entertaining was that the ref allowed the players to play on a bit more than usual. That let the game flow better. So making faster VAR decisions will also allow that to happen.
I can see the arguments for offside to be more forgiving but at the end of the day it's just better for everyone if there's no grey area or room for error so it's as fair as possible.
Whether players in offside positions are interfering with play would still be an argument though.
Eric Garcia issue, if you remember. According to ref he was supposed to sit there while Mbappé ran towards the goalkeeper.
I'm conflicted about all this. Precision is (obviously) non-negotiable where officiating is concerned. At the same time, the current technology is already more precise than human-eye judgments, and in my opinion renders judgements that are too harsh. If I'm looking at an overhead angle freeze-frame with a line drawn on the screen across the whole pitch and I still can't tell if a player was on-side or not, how was the player on the field supposed to know? What were they supposed to have done differently? If you want to be maximally precise, that's great, but at a certain point it becomes absurd to hold humans to standards set by robots. The algorithms need a "close enough" setting.
They could build that in. Personally I think the rules should be redrawn so that you're only offside if your foot is further ahead than the defenders feet.
But there will always be an issue with precision, if you allow a 5cm gap, some players will be 4.9cm and some will be 5.1cm. That happened even before technology, but even worse because officials would call offside when the player wasn't.
I agree. In my view the offside rule should be simplified as follows: if a player is visibly offside to the referee's eye, he's offside. Of it's unclear, call it level and allow the goal. Simple.
So to put it into words so everyone can understand
The robot cameras will track players on the pitch, and each time a player is beyond the line of offside when that passing tap is “heard”, the robots will tell the the VAR people whi was beyond the line of the offside example “Messi and Mbappe are offside” even if the ball was not sent to them or to a player beyond the opponent defense line
VAR in turn look if they (Messi or Mbappe) interfered with the play, and if they did not then its not offside, if one of them did, then it is and they tell the referee and the side man
The 1inch in offside position is not the annoying part of the VAR decision, after all it is a fair decision if we read the game’s rules
The annoying part is the time we wait from the moment a player scores to the moment of VAR’s decision which is usually after we’ve celebrated like crazy
This method shortens the VAR decision time by a lot and makes the decision within seconds just like before the VAR and I’m all for it
There seems to be a weird desire for the referee to remain the focal point for decision making... Why is this? My belief is that the referee should only be there to announce the decisions that, those in a better position than themselves, have made. If a computer and/or those with many screens (equipt with rewind, zoom, slow-mo etc) are able to referee games to a better standard than a person with a whistle (which is obvious and inevitable), why are sticking with an outdated and flawed method? I've seen countless instances where the entire televised viewing audience knows the outcome of the decision before the referee does! There should be a 10 second window to make the decision... If it takes longer than that, it therefore isn't clear cut and play goes on!
accessibility. your local park doesn't have the same features a world class stadium does and FIFA's guidelines/principles is that the game should be played the same everywhere (as much as possible)
@@calvinl3421 Not even just local parks. Most clubs outside of the top leagues wouldn't be able to afford such a large added cost, nor would most confederations. CONCACAF didn't even implement VAR until this most recent international competition window in part due to the costs of setting it up being too high for the smaller nations.
Ya, what they said
All of this only makes things more accurate if the ball can be tracked to perfectly know the moment it is played forward, otherwise the argument about frame rates and freeze frames not showing the right moment and therefore the lines being inaccurate doesn’t change. This just takes away the time it takes the VAR to draw a couple of lines and doesn’t do anything to really increase actual accuracy or the competence of decision making.
Presumably if they can do 27 data points for each player they can do the same for the ball
I want to see VAR used for out of bounds, so the correct team gets the ball. this is very important when it comes to corners vs goal kicks. they should be able to have enough cameras and people that they can within a couple seconds give a correction if needed.
Eagerly waiting for a new video about VAR and the Tottenham v Liverpool game.
They still need to improve camera frame rates, the timing on a ball being kicked can change a playing being on or offside due to imcomplete frames
Thats why Im just for the proposal that you should only be offside when your whole body is ahead of the last defender
@@BigmanDogs your just moving the line of contention
@@paulquaife7974 Yes but it is a contention that would lead to a lot fewer offside rulings.
Obey Collina.
That is the one thing I have ingrained in my head.
When the cameras are tracking players, do they only track 22 players on the field? What about a scenario with players are being subbed on, are the targets for cameras manually switched to oncoming players? Are they also manually switched off for players who are on the touchline injured and therefore out of play? Is there a possibility that if a player were to go out of sight of a camera, say he falls behind the advertisement hoarding, and someone in the crowd in a jersey were to jump on, does the camera start tracking them instead, or are the cameras aided by the packs that players often wear on themselves below their shirts to record various physical statistics? The same goes for balls that are occasionally thrown onto the pitch by fans. It's an interesting concept but there are many scenarios I wonder whether the technology will get confused, as they haven't explained the concept in detail other than it's aided by 'AI' recognition.
Also trash thrown by fans , flares and or even the sunlight tampering with the cameras , people using lasers to point at cameras
@@VintageFootballVault The people in charge often think technology is infallible in practice, until some guy comes along with a laser and ruins millions of Pounds in research. It's almost impressive
Speaking of lasers, I still feel like there’s not enough retribution done for those who shine them in the players’ faces when a penalty is about to be taken
Working in AI, I have said this for years. Having AI control offsides is something that is groundbreaking, yet fairly straightforward.
unless you can train your AI to decide what is considered 'interfering with play' and what isn't then the technology is not quite ready yet. the semi-automated system however does sound reasonable.
Tell that to EA ... their AI offside system is still broken in FIFA.
Mike Dean, Anthony Taylor, Paul Tierney - We don't do that here
It when they rule offside for a foot, arm etc, the rule should be if the majority of your body is inline with the last defender it onside.
There should be a TV Refree or Third Refree and his/her voice should be heard and the screen should also be shown to public
Someone said the best change to offsides would be if any part of the attackers body is even or behind the second to last defender then he would be onsides
Wenger pulling a Winger and Infantino pops in looking like the Dean. If you know, you know. 🔥
With the amount of cameras that are available in competitions which use the VAR, I'm surprised they haven't looked at cricket and rugby as examples. It can easily be solved by utilizing VAR as the third umpire/television match official.
Why make it even more complicated? Just implement a time limit on a decision to be made. If you can't tell within 15 sec if someone is offside, he/she is equal and thus onside.
Hmm... Interesting. I would have thought tiny GPS sensors sewed into the waist band of the shorts might be a better system but I suppose a camera set up is easier to check and calibrate and doesn't need to involve coordinating with the clubs directly.
If it’s used correctly then it’ll be good. That said VAR still has it’s issues so I expect they’ll probably use it wrong initially, probably with them putting too much confidence in it.
You want to speed the game up? Well, I prefer to look at the NBA. The pace is an all time high.
Rules like 8 second violation: Once you touch the ball, you have 8 seconds to bring the ball up the halfway line. If you fail to reach the halfway line, it is an automatic turnover.
Another rule like backcourt violation. If you’re on the opponent’s half and you decide to pass the halfway line, it’s an automatic turnover.
Imagine implementing these rule in the premier league. For example, you have 15 seconds to bring the ball to the halfway line. This will encourage teams who doesn’t have the ball to start pressing or if a team has the ball, force them to bring the ball up the halfway line.
Is 15 seconds too short? How about 30 seconds? Is 30 seconds too long? A turnover will results a free kick.
Another rule like shot clock violation. A team has 24 seconds to put the ball in the hoop.
Imagine implementing this rule in the premier league.
For example, a team has 5 minutes to score. If you fail to score in 5 minutes, results in turnover.
You know what will speed the game up the MOST?
Get rid of offsides. Imagine the amazing counter attacks transitions.
Firstly: Why not go from the head? Get these flailing arms and trailing legs out of the equation
Secondly: surely it’s better to stick with the on-field decision, in cases where the decision is within a couple of inches
how does making precise calculations of a player’s position support the intention of “advantage to the attacking team”? It’s like they’re using technology to counteract the “law” of the game of which is already confusing and counterintuitive to “speeding things up”.
Var was exceptional in World Cup 2018!
This will also be exceptional in World cup 2022!
Brought in to stop linesmen dying from the heat of the Sun
I wish there was TIFO back when they introduced red and yellow cards to see the controversy around that
Just make offside
A ) only in the box so it that will stretch the teams
B) not offside in the box so team will leave forwards in the box and stretch the team again
first you need to prove that "stretch" is beneficial
The music on this video is top notch. Any idea what’s its name ?
"Officials will still have the final decision". So there will still be situations where referees make the wrong decision despite VAR and image proof and it will also keep corruption alive, cheers fifa
The VAR official will make the decision, not the referee
This would be great if combined with a offside rule change so that the rule is not so ridiculously arbitrary in the way they judge you off side for swinging an arm slightly in front of a defender.
They don’t. An arm can’t be offside. Only parts of the body you can score with.
Surely we have the technology for fully automated offsides
Actually we don't.
Current state of the art ai is very good in finding patterns, but it does not understand the context of a situation and the abstract concepts used to make decisions. You could use a rule-based approach, but then again reality is simply too complicated and nuanced to be pressed into a fixed set of rules with hard thresholds. So either way a part of the decisions would be obviously wrong to a human, because the human understands the context of the situation and the ai does not.
Errors will always exist and they won't necessarily be the kind people find acceptable.
Offside is already solved, the problem is they're not taking into account uncertainties in the measurement. Laboratory classes 101.
Even though the push to increase technology in football is great, I do wonder why is there such a fuss over the time taken for offside decisions so important? Set pieces such as throw-ins, goal kicks and even defensive free kicks tend to waste more time than anything else. Why not introduce a stop clock that can monitor the time being wasted by players or coaches or even referees. We need to reduce the time ball is not in play to increase the intensity when it is in play and THEN introduce this technology.
World Cup 2022 will be a weird one.
Because the build up for a free kick is nice for spectators. It give you time to judge their chances and builds up tension.
Waiting to see if a goal counts or not is just annoying for most people.
Because you don't sit waiting for a goal kick for 4 minutes
When I took a referee class about 20 years ago, they mentioned that “natural” breaks from goals, throws, goal kicks were expected to be part of the game and accounted for in the 90 minutes.
I’m all for defining “natural” as 20 seconds for a throw in, goal kick, or when the keeper is holding the ball, and any time above that is automatically added to stoppage time.
It takes out the yellow for time wasting (which helps the stalling player by taking more time to give the card).
I like the idea of stopping the clock when the ball is out of play. Do that and introduce time limits for taking throw ins and goal kicks, much like how the goalie now is only allowed to handle the ball for a set amount of time.
@@fiddley technically goalies have 6 seconds to hold the ball on their hands. It’s the least enforced rule in the game
They should also shows replays to fans in the stadiums like in NFL.
They should have a mascot come out during the VAR breaks. They can call it the VAR-dvark.
Change the rule. How many offsides are given where there was no additional advantage from being in that position.
It sounds bonkers. If it's a clear and obvious Offside they shouldn't be required to wait until the play is over. If it's a close offside they should absolutely wait. It's a better solution. They have a whistle for a reason and they should use it when needed.
DRS type technique should be used in VAR in which people can hear what referees are talking about.
The problem is that fans/pundits will never be satisfied. They can't seem to get over the fact that every solution involves some compromise. They want VAR to be quick so it doesn't interrupt the flow of the game, but then they'll say "what's the point of VAR if it lets decisions like this be made" when there's any mistake. And every time there's inconsistency between two games, everyone gets outraged rather than accepting that a world without inconsistent decisions in a game this complex is impossible. It's about trying to balance these competing problems and minimising them, but eliminating them is almost impossible.
Ah I'm waiting for the WiFi to cause the robots to lag in decision-making
always thinking on why not just use the same technology that has been implemented on goal line check. Different is the chips are plan/put into the tip point of players boots and shoulders. Then doing the realtime check to compare the attacker's furthest coordinate vs the last defender's when the ball got passed/kicked
Think the issue with that is you can score with other parts of your body and if those parts are offside but their feet are onside it would say onside when they were actually off
@@chrissampson6137 thought shoulder and tiptoe are the furthest you can go but realize its also possible with head or knee lol
What's going on with the comments. I had a subpar boring comment I wanted everyone to read.
I don't understand why, with any new technology added to the game, there's a need to showcase that this new feature will not 'diminish' the referee's authority or something.
For God's sake. I for one can't wait until there are no referees at all. Fully automated decision making FTW.
As long as we can see it on a broadcast, and it is transparent, all good on my books.
A fully automated decision can also fail. For example Sheffield United was denied a goal vs Aston Villa because of failed goal line technology, even though the officials saw physically that the ball crossed the line. So it's good that human has some kind of authority in case if the technology fails.
@@umarabdaziz760 an interesting middle ground might be fully automated technology with a human referee on standby as "supervisor", able to override the decision when the technology has clearly failed or glitched. Halfway through typing that I just realized I reversed the roles so the humans are VAR for the VAR 😆😆
Have you played fifa? Referees are good for the game because they show things like lenience and nuance that allows the game to flow organically
I'm all for it. the offside rule itself also needs an overhaul I've been campaigning for for years
True, but there have been 0 good proposals. From anyone. And do we still want to be able to play an offside-trap, or is it only there to stop teams playing hoofball with 1 striker in the enemy box?
@@aseq2 both. the rule just needs to be made simpler to understand and to judge.
this technology helps referees. what needs to be done for the rule to work consistently is my proposal:
if a player is in an offside position, it should not matter who he receives the ball from. in its current state, the additional review, deciding whether a defender player last touched the ball and whether it was an "intended back pass" is stupid and in 2022 complicates things unnecessarily.
It can't be a bad thing. I mean current linesmen are basically semi useless anyway. Only flagging sixteen phases after the original offside and not wanting to flag because the onus then lies on them rather than VAR after the event.
It's hard to determine offsides nowadays, hopefully in the future the imaginary line for offsides will be implemented in real time in order to determine if it is on or offside, just like NFL's yellow imaginary line for 1st downs, blue imaginary line for line of srimmage and red imaginary line for field goal line...
Except those lines are stationary and only visible to the TV audience.
They need to change the rule to be more general and in line the the original spirit of the rule: no cherry-picking. As long as players' mid-sections are within half a meter of each other they should let it play.
What do you mean the 'original spirit'?
When you had to have 3 defenders between you and the goal and weren’t even allowed to be level?
I think everytime there is an office decision each fan in the stadium should get a button like on who wants to be a millionaire, and they should decide if its offside or not
Next year: Fifa plans to implement pixel accurate line for Sao technology to be relayed to Var technology to var officials to the referee in the pitch. Lol
I have a sinking feeling about this. I don't think anything good will come of getting a computer to decide on something as game-critical as offside. Certainly, I don't think it will reduce offside controversies one bit.
Not being funny but isn't this quite an easy thing to get right? It's just a matter of getting an ultra quality camera able to follow the players in real time. With the right camera in the right place we don't need to do any guessing, it will be clear when the camera is zoomed in. And yes, show this on the screens at the stadium so the fans can see it too.
LEGENDS 🔥🔥🔥❤️❤️❤️❤️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Any word on the UPL
Great idea if it works. Does seem a bit '1984' George Orwell though.
People who complain about VAR forgot quite quickly how many bad decisions refs used to make before VAR
I hate the VAR and it should go. I don't care that it tries to make the game "fair" and fix mistakes, the emotion football brought to people is gone. That emotion made place for people not celebrating immediately, hating the referee's more, longer extra time because everyone has to wait to up to 5 minutes each half etc.
The game is simply more fun if decisions are not seen. Like the Maradona Hand of God, Lampard's clear but dissalowed goal, Nigel de Jong's flying kick to the chest, Sumunic who got 3 yellow cards, How Chelsea had a pretty bad referee against Barcelona in 2009. I could go on. This is what football should have.
i wonder if positional sensors in jerseys and boots could be used rather than cameras
I'm all for it but as long as officials aren't open with how they came up with their decisions or what specific rules they are referencing to during games (like what happens in the NFL in the US) then fans will always fill the news cycle with refereeing decisions
Would this be, basically, an updated way to how they project the lines on NFL fields?
If these cameras spot that someone is offside and therefore send the red light to the linesman's watch.....how does the linesman know whether this relates to a player who is (or is not) interfering with play?
If it works, hope it happens
Would this tool support referees to make decisions only for goals scored, or for all passes played? The "red light at the watch of the linesman" sounded more like the latter; i.e. an extension of VAR's current scope of responsibility.
Like tight offsides that lead to corners or free kicks you're thinking? Stuff that as of now isn't double checked when the set piece results in a goal
Let’s all be honest with ourselves, football was more fun before VAR was around.
I think Football should include bad offside decisions, automating the sport is the death of it. Let there be bad decisions that fans have to get over.
There’s too much money in the game that people feel we need to address this. You won’t find automated offside robots in league 2 so why should the big buck teams get it. It’s an attempt to protect their finances from rouge football decisions and who cares.
Let referees and linesmen do their jobs and if there’s an offside call that’s so obvious it only takes 5 seconds for a VAR to confirm then overturn it but otherwise stop pouring over the replays in slow mo and get on with the game
I agree, as a spurs fan watching the 2-3 vs Man City I could only celebrate an of
Onside decision, not the actual goal
Still think attackers should get 5cm advantage at least. To account for momentum and leaning into move.
Give all the tool in the world to the PL referees and they will still fumble every officiating decision. They’re borderline blind.
What exactly is a clear and obvious error?
Because sometimes a player is a toe nail, or finger are past the offside line. But that's not a clear and obvious error.
I’m all for innovation but this type of stuff kinda kills the drama for me. Yes I want the correct decisions in the end, but VAR was already a killjoy to begin with.
Imo I just feel the bigger line that PL do now, could just be even bigger. I don't care if I let in a goal that are marginally offside because of a toe or a arm in the wrong angle.
It's easy to see if they are offside then so the decision should happen quickly and if they are offside or not then it's so obvious nobody can be angry.
Roman Abramovich just relinquish stewardship of chelsea could you do a video about the impact on future transfers and if he may need to permanently sell the club
Just do it like MLS no lines, only overturn the call if the decision was clear and obviously wrong. If it’s so close that you need to draw lines then either way the original call by the referee is not a bad one.
Just make it like goal line technology
This technology is basically being tested in football for wider application in like security I'm guessing.
Plz get a faster system for offside. Currently VAR is taking too much time.
Next step, cameras tracking your finger movement at the office. For how many minutes were you actually typing?! We all know that the things we can measure by machine are more important than value perceived by a human.
Tell you what they've come a long way in a short time from when they couldn't even give Lampard's goal in 2010.
It shouldn't be judged from position of shoulder because every goal will be disallowed
but you can score with shoulder
I thought the whole point was the not need var for offsides anymore
Let’s just do away with offside and leave it up to the defending side to make sure they have a defender back
Why can't they just add sensors to the boots of the players or somewhere on their bodies to create these lines on the field , when an attacking player crosses the defensive line created by these sensors on the players , the offside flag is triggered , and will stay active until the offside player returns to an onside position .
Just change the rule to make it easier to spot
Who is here after Chelsea Vs Liverpool Carabao Cup final?. This video should be relevant now
There’d be no issue with the current system of the tolerances were reasonable and defined.
Human error makes football beautiful.
100%
In principle, yes, but we do find a demonstrable bias towards the super rich clubs (surely the money alone should have been enough of an advantage for them?) which makes modern football incredibly tedious.
@@thescoutn2967 no
If it's human error rather than skill that attracts you to the game, I imagine that under 7s is more appealing to you than Champions League football? Watching beautiful goals being incorrectly chalked off, players getting away with biting, or getting away with handling the ball isn't what makes the game beautiful... That is the igky side to it: injustice and corruption! The beautiful part is the game itself, played fairly and honourably, with skill and passion!
@@lar.bi_ no one asked you adjebeb lanebso
The offside rule needs to change so that the only part which can be determined as offside is your feet.
People complain about var but offside has never been more accurate... Now they complain because it's unfair that someone's toe is offside but it's offside
Refs still involved for Italians on bungs?
All the technologies but not one horizontal camera angle
Its more easier than that, just place a precise tracker to the players, just display it in screen, problem solved.
Simple offside fix, do what MLS does and don't use the line. Use the eyetest.
overkill
Yeah I'm surprised it's still so controversial. Refs still have a role to play, ensuring that the game flows smoothly. Let the perfect system worry about telling them about fouls.