@Zaydan Alfariz the issue is that they didn't specified which type of "camera" it's being use. For example, if all they are using is laser scanning, there is no image recognition at play, but just a 3D reconstruction from laser data. Also because image recognition could have some slight errors, and due to the precision required for the VAR, i hope they are not using that.
As far as can tell only the ball have sensors, the players don't. So in order for the camera to track players it has to know the difference between a dog running in the field and an actual human being. So somewhere there's a computer vision machine learning model capable of knowing how a human being running in football field looks like. That's intelligence.
There is a video from Australia a few years back that did this. It showed highlights of a referees last match and him talking to players and other referees during a match. It's very interesting
There is still a problem with the semi-automated VAR, tho. In the Saudi Arabia-Argentina game, Lautaro Martínez scored a goal that was ruled out because he was supposedly offside, but after the match people noticed that the semi-automated VAR was putting him offside because it was taking into consideration the center back that was just beside him, and it was not considering the Saudi left back that was putting him in the onside zone. Mistakes likes this MUST not happen, specially in a World Cup.
I don't know bro...although it was really tight (between the CB and the LB on who was the last defender) i think VAR, before choosing a player to be considered as a last defender, must use the line technology to determine it. I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that I, looking at the image, could not make the call for sure.
Yeah and don't forget to mention that it will be played in Meta-verse... 😂 No tender, no corruption... No plane tickets or hotel reservation... Each team can play from their homes... 🤣
Off side rule being automated is an example of imposing a rule over it's original objective, in this case, off side rule intention is to prevent an unfair advantage of the attacker over the defending team. Having the tip of a finger from a hand or a milimiter of hair passing over the strict line of the defender does ot imply an advantage for the attacker and might be due to just a natural body movement, that might be the main reason for fans to hate the AI VAR system, maybe changing rules to prevent the attacker from having his point of support/supportig leg and torso over the line (or something similar) might be a more suitable parameter while still being just as objective
Your fingers don’t count, they can’t be used to score a goal. And hair strands are not taken into consideration cause the cameras can’t see them individually. But you’re right, the tips of the knees or shoulder tips shouldn’t be counter offside to the last mm. I think they should count it offside if more than half of their body passes the offside line.
Thank you for sharing exactly my thoughts. These days I am always offside because I use shoes size 44 (europe)/10 (us), whereas my opponents' shoes are usually sized 42 or 43. Does my big stinking toe give me an advantage? Is my story even real? I leave it to you, but I had seen some offsides by the toes as well🙂
An error happened in the US vs Wales game. The whales player intentionally passed the ball backwards to a US player who was offside. He was then fouled in the box but the AI determined the play was offside because it was not capable of determining intention. (It’s not offside if a defender makes an intentional touch to the opposing team whose offside). So instead of a foul being called and penalty given, the offside was called first and no review was done
Offside call is relatively objective (even if it gets decided on a matter of centimeters), but decisions based on stuff like fouls or handballs still get really heated debates
I really dont like the idea that its already objective, not yet. I think the technology should improved in order to not depend on the referee's decision and it still does although the scene rendering is completely automated. I think it should (and will) evolve to somethig like Tennis or Volley in which the computer says directly whether its offside or not, and I don't think anybody would complain about a mistake anymore and if a mistake were to happen, it would be completely random, the criteria would be the same for everyone. Like a pact: the computer said, than it is what it is. Things in soccer would be muuuuch easier that way.
@@scaredelmo2173 the point is the hand didn't disrupt the opposition play when it touched the ball (which means if the ball didn't touch your hand it would've stopped the play anyway)
@@scaredelmo2173 in some cases where the player’s hand is in natural position it would not get called. but then, there are debates on what is the natural hand position and also for some reason it’s not always applicable especially when it’s in the penalty box. tldr: no one actually knows when a handball is actually handball.
@@Knez_Pavle A human is prone to error. A bunch of cameras giving you dozens of different angles to see what is happening stablish an indisputable reference from which you can judge. Your argument makes no sense.
Have a lot of 2D cameras that film the events but you still need software to make the 3D image and to pick apart what is the grass and what's the player.
@@cyan_oxy6734 True, but that doesn't really involve AI. Compiling 2D imagery into a 3D model is literally what happens when you have a CT scan, but if you suffer head trauma and they take a CT scan of your head, you'd never say "I got my head analysed by AI".
@@ghujdvbts I mean obviously you think that. Including KNN algorithm for the rotoscoping for the deep neural network for the AI seems obvious and is hence redundant to say as those are the bread and butter of motion tracking and you would only care to mention it if you thought I didn't already know about it. In the entire video they never mention jack about deep learning and one could easily assume that the diagram that should the relative positional cordinates of the extremeties of the human diagram is something a person behind the scene is doing because although said AI is reliable, every nural networks works inherently on quality and variety of the training data being fed, and since we all know that it is next to impossible to feed every possible scenario in the training data as seen by the largest running training model in the world by Tesla self driving, which still crashes, it's only natural to assume that an "AI" is not completely accurate and fifa couldn't take a chance of it not working and so there is definitely a person either assist or at least check the result of AI.
As a casual football watcher (only during worldcups), i was soo confused this year by 'offside' decisions, thanks for expalining what this term means and how the AI tech works this year
"So, the simplest way of explaining offsides is..." procedes to give the weirdest explanation of what offside is. Also, it would still happen today, because it does.
Yeah, I can't believe he said his description was "simple" while never mentioning the act of passing the ball AT ALL, does he even know what the rule actually is?
Yeah, but offside was created to determine if the attacking team had an advantage. How is being 2 centimeters with your kneecap in offside an advantage?!. In my mind, there should be a rule change, where for example the attacking player has to be at least some amount in in front.
Any amount would still create the same problems. If the cutoff was 20 cm ahead, then it would still be hard to determine if a player is 19 cm or 21 cm ahead.
Man, this whole World Cup is just reminding me how much I don’t like the current offsides rule. Why do the inches or centimeters matter? If a good ball is coming over the top or through, that player is getting to goal regardless of even a half a meter. How is a player supposed to measure centimeters in real time? How is a lean more advantageous for the attacker? For the health of the game, I really think they should simplify the rule and make it easier to call such that refs can easily make the call without an entire computer program having clarify and dragging back goals and killing momentum and morale. At lower levels, do we just suffice with the eye-test offsides until we get counted off by a shoulder or knee by technology at the highest level? Then again, refs always just give the benefit of the doubt to the defenders, so you really shouldn’t be close at all to be safe. So, in my opinion, they should either revert the offsides rule back to when you had to be clearly behind the defender. Or (what I’d prefer), you have the Arsene Wenger rule where you just need one body part being in line with the last defender. This actually really wouldn’t be that hard to recognize because most players making runs are watching the defender as a reference point and they would be timing their runs accordingly either way. Just my thoughts.
I think instead of looking at your torso, they should keep the same offside rules but just look at the position of the feet only. So a forward leaning body isn't gonna ruin a nice goal
used to be so much better before VAR, however, there were some scandalous decisions, which I assume VAR was supposed to eliminate. Now, though, they appear to be trying to perfect something that never should be. A few years ago, refs were supposed to give the advantage to the attacking player if there was a doubt - this fits with the simplicity of the beautiful game, which to me, is now no longer beautiful or simple.
The technology is a good advancement for the sport like I think literally all the other sports have it like volleyball, basketball, rugby, etc, what I think needs to happen now is a readjust of some of the rules. The offside rule was created with the intention of preventing one team to "leave" a player close to the opposite goal giving him and advantage 1v1 for easy goals; but it got to the point that some teams will be trying to intentionally create offsides there's practically no advantage to having one knee a few cm infront of the last player or having a hand or shoulder creating an offside; they should change the rule so that if you're side by side or maybe you can be up to 30cm behind the last player and it's not offside, that would make no more teams trying to actually force offsides and playing defense Edit: you actually don't need the 30cm probably the best would be that "the player is offside if they're completely behind the last defensive player when the pass was made"
@@giannis5250 currently any part of the attacking player's body behind the the defensive player is and offside and unless you have the var technology available you can't apply the rule objectively, meaning that what 90 95%? of the games around the world that are not pro lv can't use the rule when the players are side by side, the rules are meant to keep the sport fair to play and entertaining to watch the current offside rule doesn't do that, yeah you don't need the 30cm probably the best would be that the player is offside if they're completely behind the last defensive player when the pass was made
I would argue that the rule should be a full step offside. Having goals called off because a knee is offside or a player's big toe was offside or worse a player's arm is offside (despite the fact that you can't make a play on the ball with the arm) hurts the game. But if your knee and front leg are offside then it should be called.
@@Valpo2004 exactly. I feel like its against the spirit tbh. It's just too much intervention. At one instance a player was handing out the hand asking for a pass and because of that it was called offside, bruh common !
Yes it is the best! Like when it eliminated the goalkeeper as the second man in Qatar vs Ecuador, or Canada vs Belgium when the other team passed it back, or France vs Tunisia when the other defender headed the ball but France was counted offside. Or Belgium v. Croatia when Belgium was off by atoms? The playable shoulders were even. But yeah, it works so well ☺️
to much referee power! soccer is become a dead sport! false hopes! selling dreams! the joy of a players scorings a goal taken away how many times has this happened in this world cup???
Was watching France vs Tunisia group stage match and I don't quite understand why Griezman's goal in the last few minutes was considered an offside. He was in offside position when his teammate played the ball but he actually didn't follow up from that action. The ball first got headed by a Tunisian defender and its only after that that Griezman came in and scored....
Any discussion of offside like this must include a discussion of overlapping body parts. Can the attacking player’s finger be offside if the rest of him is onside? Head? Foot? Knee? That’s what these calls come down to.
this literally happened with the qatar vs senegal game, one of the qatari players was running towards the goal, saw the opposing player coming closer, stuck out a foot and was completely bulldozed by him and the ref didn't call it smh. One of the worst calls i've ever seen, idc if you think he was looking for it you don't get to run into a player and not call it cuz u think he was lookin for it
if you slow it down and look closely, before the contact was even made, qatar player bent his knees and was going down. For me it is an instance of a very mild physical duel and very good acting on qatar players part
@@dejomrsic6093 I completely agree, great job of selling but the opposing player bought it, if you see someone doing that you let em fall and you let the ref book him simulation, very simple
@@keithklassen5320 easiest summary: guy receiving pass when pass is played cannot be in between/ahead of the last 2 men on the enemy team (includes keeper)
He kinda made it seem like the player cannot enter the offside zone (which he can, as long as he doesn't receive a ball passed directly from a teammate)
You can now call offside because of a finger being offside, in my opinion, there should be a certain % of room for being offside, especially the top limbs
You can check minute 33:45 Argentina vs Saudi Arabia where the left arm from an Argentina player was offside but the hips feet and rest of the body were not. As of the rules it says: The law states that a player is in an offside position if any of their body parts, except the hands and arms, are in the opponents' half of the pitch, and closer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent (the last opponent is usually, but not necessarily, the goalkeeper).
@@MaggotDiggo1 Maybe rules should be changed, then. The current state of the rule (excluding smaller revisions) is dated 17 years ago. It wasn't possible to measure offsides with centimeter precision back then. The whole point of the offside is to avoid goal-hanging, I honestly don't see how accounting for a few centimeters fulfils that purpose, I'll argue that's actually making the game worst as now you need to wait a few minutes after a goal to see if it was legal or not. If audience watching for an advantage point can't easily tell, then the rule should be changed.
There is some threshold for where someone is and isn't offside. No matter how you choose to define the rule, there will be one spot where a player could be and you would need to nitpick their exact position to make the call. By making the rule more lenient, you're just moving the threshold. By being less strict, you are just being inconsistent on your ruling. I understand an argument about the use of tools like this being bad because it slows the game down (I disagree with this point if view, but I think it's an acceptable one.) But I don't think an argument of "eh, let's just be worse at judging this rule because I don't care about it" is reasonable.
@@MattMcConaha There's no threshold in the rule, not sure what you're talking about. The rule has 800 words explaining some situations where the interpretation of the offside is completely subjective (which makes it worse, e.g. the last goal in France vs. Tunisia). If that's what you're making a reference with threshold, well, it's not it. I'm aware how limits work, the main point of my argument around the threshold is to make it visible for the human eye and for the players to be able to avoid an accidental offside. You can enforce a strict threshold and measure it against that (since the technology has the precision to do it), you will still have nitpick situations, but at least it will happen less often, and when you have an offside it would be clearly visible.
The line for offside should be drawn where the feet are in contrast with the defender. Not the shoulder, not the head, the feet. We have too many instances of VAR overcorrection and killing momentum of the game.
I think so, too. Mainly because it's just so much easier and less ambiguous to see if one player's foot is in front of another's, rather than trying to decide if this player's center of mass is this far forward when their body is in this shape relative to the other body who has their torso twisted in this way and yada yada. As long as you pick a rule and stick with it, then the rule is the rule. Something like a simple "whose foot is farther ahead" will achieve the same general guideline of "don't be ahead of the last defender" but with less confusion over the details.
Hey guys. Thanks for the video. I think the problem is not how accurate the tool is but how much of an advantage a player is taking of that possition. Off-side rule was create to avoid the possibility of taking advantage, which seems impossible to do being off-side by 1 centimiter. That is why, in my opinion this rule should be aplied on a subjective way until we find the way to messure advantage.
Au contraire, it’s exactly for the reason you mentioned, this rule should continue to be applied indiscriminately until the said advantage you mentioned can be measured objectively.
I am a referee myself and I find that this rule is very good the way it is handled. It gives a very clear black and white rule and makes calls consistent and fast. If you would make calls more subjective I think it would make it worse than it is now
See the think about rules, especially in sports: The more subjective, the harder the rule is to enforce, the more inconsistent and thus the more problematic
Totally agree the rule should be changed giving more room 2 players starting to run side by side but one had a hand stretched before starting it's not and advantage at all nor what the offside rule was created for
@@_chaitanyajoshi it shouldn't be more subjective but it should be changed the original point of the rule was to avoid teams leaving one player close to the goal just to receive and score 1v1, having to players side by side it's not and unfair advantage at all
You did not explain the offside rule correctly. 1. Yes 2 defensive players do have to be between the attacking player and the goal but, importantly, when the ball is played to them, i.e. at the moment the passer touches the ball. 2. The attacking player has to be active, i.e. they need to be affecting the play at the moment the ball is passed to them. The second point confuses people a lot because you get offsides not called even though an attacking player doesn't have 2 defensive players between them and the goal when they are not actively involved in the play. Also, players can be offside if they are obstructing the goalkeeper even if they didn't touch the ball because they were affecting play.
The problem with VAR is that it isn’t consistent. It needs to be used on all debatable incidents or not at all. And calling the referee only if there is a “clear and obvious error” is not acceptable, as that leaves the decisions to humans whether it is a clear and obvious error, which defeats the purpose. A slight handball in an El Clásico shouldn’t be treated differently than a slight handball in Leeds v Crystal Palace. And the anonymity of the process is problematic, because right now I’m 80% sure that they roll a dice before making decisions.
Ah ha. The AI is using any part of the body, whereas I always thought if the center of the player's mass is behind the defender, he's not offside. This explains why AI has a lower threshold for calling a foul, and why even on video review I was confused.
Yeah, you just need to have any body part that can touch the ball in an offside position for it to be called, so anything besides the arms but including the shoulders.
@@ArthurPMotta generally speaking a human referee wouldnt call something most people would disagree on just because of a technicality, (unless they wanted one team to lose anyways) so this rule needs to be updated to account AI which doesnt have human judgement
One of the things which rarely, if ever, gets talked about is how they determine which frame to stop the footage on before you can even begin to compare the relative position of two players. Do they use high speed cameras for that? If not, the resulting information can be skewed massively in the 1/30 or 1/60th of a second each regular TV camera can record the moment the ball leaves the player's foot for the potentially offside pass. Often, jumping one frame forward or backwards it all it takes to be clearly offside or not.
They do use high speed cameras to match the exact frame the ball was kicked, thats the key moment to then determine when the pass was made what the position of the receiver
If you watch the video it explains how the world cup ball has a sensor inside it 3:20 which gives an accurate kick point. (offside is from when the ball is touched not when it leaves a player's foot)
In tennis, Hawk-Eye technology exists for over a decade, and even in football, since 2014 there's similar software to detect whether a ball crossed the goal line completely. This offside tech was long overdue
This new offsides AI depends on both the time the ball was passed and the position of players when said ball was passed. I imagine the hardest part of the process is the latter, as tracking a live human, much less 2 or more could prove difficult.
Tracking a ball is a piece of cake compared to tracking a human. For a number of reasons. For instance, to track a tennis ball you might just know what color the ball is. It's that weird yellow-green. And you know it's a sphere. You place your cameras around the stadium, calibrate their pose relative to the court, and then you can process the video using fairly basic algorithms to find Circular objects that appear in frame which are the correct color and appear in the same ray-traced position on all cameras. And in a lot of sports they even mount a location sensor in the ball, which by itself could even be enough. For a human you can rely on their color, their shape, or pretty much anything else to write a basic algorithm to locate them like that reliably, especially when there are a bunch if them out there on the field.
Players have rely on their subjective perspective to judge offsides as well. There is a danger of making players overly cautious and the game less exciting.
But then again the biggest problem in soccer is the simulated faults. I remember one player ("Bobô" was his name) in my country who was kinda "specialist" in it and gave a whole 101 on how to do it right in a comedy show. How to dive accordingly, to grimace, and on. It was like one of those movie fight scenes haha
Why don’t they just measure offside by the edge of the feet and use a similar system that track events use to remove subjectivity from offside decisions?
The REAL problem imho is that this stuff should work as a challenge, like in volleyball or tennis. The team desires to modify the referee's call? Challenge it. If it was a good call, the team cannot complain anymore until half-time. Reviewing every single thing is a pain in the _ss, the game should flow and only the evident mistakes (noticed by the defending team) should be called out and modified. The player knows if he didn't commit a penalty, so alert the captain to ask for a review. This should push the players to act in a more fair manner, no point letting your team argue a penalty you DID commit. The current situation takes back lots of goals in milimeter-offside plays. Let the team judge if it is worthy reviewing the play. Or let the offside be automatic, but introduce the challenge for penalty/no penalty and red card/no red card
I totally agree. Plus, in this way you will only review plays that human eye could have noticed, since nobody is going to challenge a play that they couldn’t see.
They should incorporate ranges. Humans are not robots and if I’m 0.02 inches offside it doesn’t give me an advantage, even though the AI might catch it.
What are the margins of error of the data that the IA is being fed? Who tested the precision and accuracy of the system? Who certifies it? How can we be sure that the system takes the correct players in critical moments? Why is this information not publically available? After working with IA I can tell you, it is not even close to being infallible, sometimes is even more fallible than humans depending of the quality of data that is being fed.
I think there’s a mistake around the 3-minute mark - in VAR decisions in the English Premier League, offside is already decided by “AI”. The referee more reviews instant replays of fouls and handballs, but offside is an objective decision based on technology stuff lol
It's not decided by AI. the VAR refs can use technology as you say, but they have to manually create the lines. Which is why offside decision can take minutes, leading to frustrating break in play. Especially when reviewing multiple things at once, for instance first reviewing if a foul should be a pen, and then whether that pen should be voided because of an offside decision earlier in the play. In this years World Cup it's much more automated and the offsides are decided in seconds, not minutes.
VAR is not semi automatic, is still a human factor behind cameras. Second goal of Argentina against Saudi wasn't offside, they forgot to see the fourth defender (n 13 Yasser). The creator of this technology said it himself
Why is it that only 20 seconds of the video actually somewhat relates to the title of the video? And that 20 seconds didn't even deep dive into how the tech works.
Aaaaaaa I have waited for this video 🔥😍 I knew vox will be the one to tell me. And all in the best shortest most informative, creative way! Much love to Voxoxo
There is no advantage when a knee or a shoulder is a bit further. That could also be the players physiognomy. They have to really think about when it is advantageous for the team who did an offside. Back in the day was the line of the player’s feet. If the defense is not fast enough to go to the ball that’s not the forward’s fault.
"Offside is complicated rule".. c'mon the name already kind of explains it by itself. An attacker receiving a ball from his teammate can't be benhind the last defender of the opposite team
@@renex_g3915 Because it implies the player with the ball in their example would not be allowed to run forward with the ball past the defenders. Now he does *very quickly* say "Or be behind where the ball is", implying the player cannot use any kind of lone (No team mates involved) manueve to get past the last defenders that results in him being closer to the goal than the ball, which is not true. It also doesn't differentiate between the offside position and the offside offence. If in their example, the player with the ball were to shoot and score, whilst his team mate was in the offside position, their implication is it wouldn't count because the team mate was in that offside position. But that team mate would only commit an offside offense, if they became involved in play. For example, if the player with the ball took a shot, it rebounded off the goal post and the team mate in the offside position then got the ball, that would be an offense. Or if the player with the ball passed the ball, past the 2nd to last defender, to his team mate who successfully receives the pass, that is an offside offense.
These seems more about receiving and processing video and sensor data. Not so much predicting outcomes based on previous trials as just making sense of input and returning its outcome....
The offside rule could still be subjective. The participation of an offside player can be subjective, such as blocking the view of the goalkeeper or not for example.
As a rule of thumb, when you hear “AI,” you can mentally replace that with “a collection of if statements.” (This technology is cool, but there’s nothing “AI” about this.)
Okay but the whole leaning into a run and being offside by 3 or four inches is the worst. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure the rule is only supposed to apply to the lower half of the body and yet they eve thrown that out the window for this WC. On top of that a lot of refs aren't going to review footage for penalties when we should be reviewing it everytime. Players will throw themselves down in hopes of a penalty and sometimes it's just given 🤷🏽♂️ we have the technology but the refs are so inconsistent with whether or not they use it and when they do use it it's kind of just nitpicking at this point
It's only not reviewed, if the VAR thinks it's not necessary! Otherwise it would take too much time! And no, offside is for the entire lower half, and up to the shoulders and head, excluding only, the arms!
Took them long enough. Sports such as cricket and tennis been using VAR tech circa 2006. For a heavily invested sport I’m surprised it has taken them this long to develop this technology for soccer. Alike to the afore mentioned sports it too took them a while to perfect its algorithms in determining faults/errors and the tennis association had to create a standard of accuracy that the tech had to meet before it became standardised in major tennis tournaments. It too will improve with time.
It looks to me like VAR is still very corrupt. We all saw that Ronaldo did not get fouled against Senegal, but they still called it in HIS FAVOR. I have also seen it used in the Liga MX, you can see discrepancies when a home team is playing. I understand that nothing is perfect and I still believe that as much as we love to hate the refs, I still think we need them because we still need that subjectivity of a persons point of view; in a world where people don't want to hear how subjective you can be.
1st: it was ghana 2nd: the player clearly didnt hit the ball, he hit the back of his knee/leg and the contact made cr7 fall, making so a penalty, even if it was soft, it was a technical fall which prettymuch everyone would make in his situation to get awarded a penalty
@@officialpingo Thank you for correcting me with Ghana, but the player from Ghana hits the ball first that Ronaldo because of his old guy is slow to the ball, then kicks his foot, but the player from Ghana clearly got to the ball first.
Imagine scoring the greatest goal in World Cup history, and then scoring the most controversial goal in World Cup history. All in one game. If you don't understand the complexity of Maradona as a whole, you didn't understand football. The hand of god, still hurts after 36 years?
The offside rule needs to go. (Field) hockey got rid of it and they're doing really good rn. This technology has made the judgement way too precise that it's now basically penalising attackers for being faster than the defenders.
Not nearly as blatantly as Maradona's goal, though. Players still sometimes manage to get their arm to the ball and score that way, but overtly punching the ball over the goalkeeper's head, like Maradona did, would never pass VAR.
When I was a kid a lot of people would argue that bad calls were a part of the game. It was true that a terrible call that cost you a match would actually make you feel so outraged that it made the games deeply personal. You were less of an observer as you "knew" the right call or would at least argue about if it was right or not. And bad calls were common for and against. Now that they can use a computer to get it right you are less connected. You are more likely to believe the computer or off-field calls and accept them and not feel the same emotions. I'm, talking about back in the 1970s when fans could tear a stadium apart if the call was bad enough and then have running battles in the street afterwards over it. Cameras in the stadium both watching the crowd and the game changed all that.
I think offside should be determined by a players center of mass, not whether their hand is over the line by inches. I've seen PL goals disallowed where a player was called offsides because they were raising their hand calling for the ball. There's no real advantage there. That said, if someone is leaning toward into the first step of a sprint, I do think that is a real advantage and should be called off. Admittedly center of mass is difficult to measure especially with cameras, but the tech here seems that it would be more than capable of producing very good estimates. But yeah, I think it's an essential but annoying rule that let's the defense off the hook more than it should.
On thing that nobody explains is why offsides exists in the first place. Can someone please give us an explanation? I've always thought that it was a rule to avoid players to be too close of the goal all the time, when they could receive the ball from a greater distance in advantage of adversary defense. But this is just a guess that I carry since I was a child. Am I wrong? For thinking that we could be something for real? 🎶
It would be ridiculous to allow all offsides goals. All a player would have to do is simply run to the goal past the defenders and where the ball is actually being played and wait for someone to boot it over to them.
Without the offside rule, football will be too easy and that will be boring to watch... having one player located right in front of his opponents goal, waiting for a long pass evading all the defenders
yes, your guess is correct. without the offside rule, attackers could simply 'camp' behind the defenders and wait for a straight lobbed ball for them to score. this demotivates defenders to stay up the pitch and as a result, will also stick right with the attackers, and as you can slowly see... a pretty unpleasant sight is unfolding
Very important note, this system is NOT flawless. It may seem so, because of the state of the art 3d perspective it gives but these are all just reconstructions based on imperfect sensors and models that although very closely still only approximate the event as it occurred. In many cases it will be a lot more precise than any human being, or even than a team of human beings however it is important to notice that it is not objective. There are still biases in the system and it is important to recognize that (this goes for any AI ofcourse) just because a system can judge something better than us doesn't mean it can judge it perfectly. And that's why a human factor should always involved, because although any (AI) system could judge anything a lot better than we can, it doesn't do so perfectly, and it doesn't know where it makes mistakes and how to deal with those. And humans do, we have common sense. Never ever put your full trust in anything.
This technology has damaged the sport so many goals yet the cameras are judging nowadays not the referee… we are not robots we are humans and not perfect we can not judge players that much in the offside for just a shoe further from the opponent it is dump
i mean that's the thing right? human referees can give good judgement, they know how to keep a game fair and enjoyable and generally wont call on pure technicalities an AI on the other hand has no human judgement at all it just does what it's told regardless of how badly this impacts the sport
I wish a player wear a TRACKER on their Arm make like Captain Hand Badge that link with the Ball and Lines. So, that it can easily track the offside and many more
There’s nothing artificial intelligence about this technology. Really wish everyone would stop throwing that phrase around.
The artificial intelligence is the part where it is able to have a 3D view of the entire pitch.
@Zaydan Alfariz the issue is that they didn't specified which type of "camera" it's being use. For example, if all they are using is laser scanning, there is no image recognition at play, but just a 3D reconstruction from laser data. Also because image recognition could have some slight errors, and due to the precision required for the VAR, i hope they are not using that.
i think they use AI to generate the player's position in 3D from the multiple camera angles
As far as can tell only the ball have sensors, the players don't. So in order for the camera to track players it has to know the difference between a dog running in the field and an actual human being. So somewhere there's a computer vision machine learning model capable of knowing how a human being running in football field looks like.
That's intelligence.
AI can also be integrated to par the crucial frames for a major decision change
Wish we could hear the officials’ conversations and decision making during these situations
There are some videos you can find of the VAR officials and the ref talking about these decisions
You're pretty much taking away their job at that point
One obstacle is they may be speaking a number of languages to each other
@@KurtIsFat well I would rather have an objective machine who is 98% correct than a human who is only 80% correct.
There is a video from Australia a few years back that did this. It showed highlights of a referees last match and him talking to players and other referees during a match. It's very interesting
There is still a problem with the semi-automated VAR, tho. In the Saudi Arabia-Argentina game, Lautaro Martínez scored a goal that was ruled out because he was supposedly offside, but after the match people noticed that the semi-automated VAR was putting him offside because it was taking into consideration the center back that was just beside him, and it was not considering the Saudi left back that was putting him in the onside zone. Mistakes likes this MUST not happen, specially in a World Cup.
But with looking at the LB instead would he have been onside
@@logiic8835 That´s exactly what I´m saying
I don't know bro...although it was really tight (between the CB and the LB on who was the last defender) i think VAR, before choosing a player to be considered as a last defender, must use the line technology to determine it. I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that I, looking at the image, could not make the call for sure.
has this been confirmed as a mistake aside from speculative twitter accounts?
@@samueldominguez9859 i dont think so
Can't imagine FIFA 2077
- AI referees
- AI coaches
- Full of bugs
Yeah and don't forget to mention that it will be played in Meta-verse... 😂
No tender, no corruption...
No plane tickets or hotel reservation...
Each team can play from their homes...
🤣
guess the games wont be copied like the previous years games
@@skmuzammilzeeshan6173 Metaverse must fail at any cost, we simply can not let the real life away by some few oligarch evil tech companies profit.
AI players
@@skmuzammilzeeshan6173 man, it's all going to be simulation! Team can run millions times of the game before even step on the field.
Off side rule being automated is an example of imposing a rule over it's original objective, in this case, off side rule intention is to prevent an unfair advantage of the attacker over the defending team. Having the tip of a finger from a hand or a milimiter of hair passing over the strict line of the defender does ot imply an advantage for the attacker and might be due to just a natural body movement, that might be the main reason for fans to hate the AI VAR system, maybe changing rules to prevent the attacker from having his point of support/supportig leg and torso over the line (or something similar) might be a more suitable parameter while still being just as objective
Your fingers don’t count, they can’t be used to score a goal. And hair strands are not taken into consideration cause the cameras can’t see them individually.
But you’re right, the tips of the knees or shoulder tips shouldn’t be counter offside to the last mm. I think they should count it offside if more than half of their body passes the offside line.
I’ve always thought it should just be foot placement. I feel like you’ve always been able to get away with the body lean.
And how are all the incorrect off-sides called by human linesmen better than an objective and more precise observer?
But where you draw the line of what is an advantage and what isnt is subjective again
Thank you for sharing exactly my thoughts. These days I am always offside because I use shoes size 44 (europe)/10 (us), whereas my opponents' shoes are usually sized 42 or 43. Does my big stinking toe give me an advantage? Is my story even real? I leave it to you, but I had seen some offsides by the toes as well🙂
An error happened in the US vs Wales game. The whales player intentionally passed the ball backwards to a US player who was offside. He was then fouled in the box but the AI determined the play was offside because it was not capable of determining intention. (It’s not offside if a defender makes an intentional touch to the opposing team whose offside). So instead of a foul being called and penalty given, the offside was called first and no review was done
Sounds like a whale of an error
Yes exactly, that's not the only error. It has happened 3 times where errors like that happened
@@Nippleless_Cage 🤣
Nice play of words...
@@Nippleless_Cageneeds artificial intelligence grammar bot, I guess!
No, remember its not AI who makes final decision. Its on the referee that the foul isn't called.
Offside call is relatively objective (even if it gets decided on a matter of centimeters), but decisions based on stuff like fouls or handballs still get really heated debates
I really dont like the idea that its already objective, not yet. I think the technology should improved in order to not depend on the referee's decision and it still does although the scene rendering is completely automated. I think it should (and will) evolve to somethig like Tennis or Volley in which the computer says directly whether its offside or not, and I don't think anybody would complain about a mistake anymore and if a mistake were to happen, it would be completely random, the criteria would be the same for everyone. Like a pact: the computer said, than it is what it is. Things in soccer would be muuuuch easier that way.
As an American who still doesn't know all the rules, how would a handball be subjective? Either their hand/arm touched the ball or it didn't
@@scaredelmo2173 the point is the hand didn't disrupt the opposition play when it touched the ball (which means if the ball didn't touch your hand it would've stopped the play anyway)
Offside is still subjective in some cases, like when an offside player does not touch the ball but interferes in the play
@@scaredelmo2173 in some cases where the player’s hand is in natural position it would not get called. but then, there are debates on what is the natural hand position and also for some reason it’s not always applicable especially when it’s in the penalty box. tldr: no one actually knows when a handball is actually handball.
I came for AI, I found the explanation of offside.
Many thanks Vox.
It's so precise that eliminates goals by differences so subtle that it loses sense
It does not lose sense. Rules are rules.
@@RokeJulianLockhart.s13ouq it works on a robotic-computer standard, a standard ni human ever will be able to suffice. Humans should referee humans.
@@Knez_Pavle I disagree. What caused you to conclude that humans should? I see no reason why a human would be superior.
@@Knez_Pavle A human is prone to error. A bunch of cameras giving you dozens of different angles to see what is happening stablish an indisputable reference from which you can judge. Your argument makes no sense.
@@pedror598 and still make errors 🤣🤣
Guys, you can't just put "AI" in front of anything. That's just motion tracking.
Have a lot of 2D cameras that film the events but you still need software to make the 3D image and to pick apart what is the grass and what's the player.
@@cyan_oxy6734 True, but that doesn't really involve AI. Compiling 2D imagery into a 3D model is literally what happens when you have a CT scan, but if you suffer head trauma and they take a CT scan of your head, you'd never say "I got my head analysed by AI".
@@ghujdvbts Why say more words when less word do trick.
@@ghujdvbts I mean obviously you think that. Including KNN algorithm for the rotoscoping for the deep neural network for the AI seems obvious and is hence redundant to say as those are the bread and butter of motion tracking and you would only care to mention it if you thought I didn't already know about it. In the entire video they never mention jack about deep learning and one could easily assume that the diagram that should the relative positional cordinates of the extremeties of the human diagram is something a person behind the scene is doing because although said AI is reliable, every nural networks works inherently on quality and variety of the training data being fed, and since we all know that it is next to impossible to feed every possible scenario in the training data as seen by the largest running training model in the world by Tesla self driving, which still crashes, it's only natural to assume that an "AI" is not completely accurate and fifa couldn't take a chance of it not working and so there is definitely a person either assist or at least check the result of AI.
machine learning is AI
As a casual football watcher (only during worldcups), i was soo confused this year by 'offside' decisions, thanks for expalining what this term means and how the AI tech works this year
Remember, for them is soccer.. not football.. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Nobody tell him who invented the term in the first place.
@@wenkoy yeah some rich oxbridge kids. no-one else has ever used the term "soccer" in england
Fair, but this monster is still your creation. Jk. People really do be getting angry over dialectal differences
@@wenkoy nah I've got nothing to do with it. For me it's jalkapallo, jalkkis, jalakkis, futis, fude or jalitsu
"In an early match between Qatar and Ecuador"
Yeah. So early it was the first match 😂
For the next fifa the ball will be updated to feel pain and start yelling when an offside happens
"So, the simplest way of explaining offsides is..." procedes to give the weirdest explanation of what offside is. Also, it would still happen today, because it does.
Yeah, I can't believe he said his description was "simple" while never mentioning the act of passing the ball AT ALL, does he even know what the rule actually is?
Yeah, but offside was created to determine if the attacking team had an advantage. How is being 2 centimeters with your kneecap in offside an advantage?!. In my mind, there should be a rule change, where for example the attacking player has to be at least some amount in in front.
Totally agreed
You're right. There is no advantage in being 1 cm ahead
Any amount would still create the same problems. If the cutoff was 20 cm ahead, then it would still be hard to determine if a player is 19 cm or 21 cm ahead.
@@ZeusDM True. But you get what im saying right? Maybe there is an other way do determine advantage...
I think it should be determined by foot 👣 position rather than some other parts of body, like hands, shoulders and so on..
wow, the story, the animation, they are stunning! thanks for the quality u guys made. + 1 sub
They even have netflix shows!
Man, this whole World Cup is just reminding me how much I don’t like the current offsides rule. Why do the inches or centimeters matter? If a good ball is coming over the top or through, that player is getting to goal regardless of even a half a meter. How is a player supposed to measure centimeters in real time? How is a lean more advantageous for the attacker?
For the health of the game, I really think they should simplify the rule and make it easier to call such that refs can easily make the call without an entire computer program having clarify and dragging back goals and killing momentum and morale. At lower levels, do we just suffice with the eye-test offsides until we get counted off by a shoulder or knee by technology at the highest level? Then again, refs always just give the benefit of the doubt to the defenders, so you really shouldn’t be close at all to be safe.
So, in my opinion, they should either revert the offsides rule back to when you had to be clearly behind the defender. Or (what I’d prefer), you have the Arsene Wenger rule where you just need one body part being in line with the last defender. This actually really wouldn’t be that hard to recognize because most players making runs are watching the defender as a reference point and they would be timing their runs accordingly either way. Just my thoughts.
I think instead of looking at your torso, they should keep the same offside rules but just look at the position of the feet only. So a forward leaning body isn't gonna ruin a nice goal
used to be so much better before VAR, however, there were some scandalous decisions, which I assume VAR was supposed to eliminate. Now, though, they appear to be trying to perfect something that never should be. A few years ago, refs were supposed to give the advantage to the attacking player if there was a doubt - this fits with the simplicity of the beautiful game, which to me, is now no longer beautiful or simple.
@@Dumptheclutchevo Exactly, couldn’t have put it better.
The technology is a good advancement for the sport like I think literally all the other sports have it like volleyball, basketball, rugby, etc, what I think needs to happen now is a readjust of some of the rules. The offside rule was created with the intention of preventing one team to "leave" a player close to the opposite goal giving him and advantage 1v1 for easy goals; but it got to the point that some teams will be trying to intentionally create offsides there's practically no advantage to having one knee a few cm infront of the last player or having a hand or shoulder creating an offside; they should change the rule so that if you're side by side or maybe you can be up to 30cm behind the last player and it's not offside, that would make no more teams trying to actually force offsides and playing defense
Edit: you actually don't need the 30cm probably the best would be that "the player is offside if they're completely behind the last defensive player when the pass was made"
You're just moving the threshold and only a tiny bit. Nothing will change
@@giannis5250 currently any part of the attacking player's body behind the the defensive player is and offside and unless you have the var technology available you can't apply the rule objectively, meaning that what 90 95%? of the games around the world that are not pro lv can't use the rule when the players are side by side, the rules are meant to keep the sport fair to play and entertaining to watch the current offside rule doesn't do that, yeah you don't need the 30cm probably the best would be that the player is offside if they're completely behind the last defensive player when the pass was made
@@pasta1998 if completely behind then the defensive team would have a lot of disadvantage. Too much
I would argue that the rule should be a full step offside. Having goals called off because a knee is offside or a player's big toe was offside or worse a player's arm is offside (despite the fact that you can't make a play on the ball with the arm) hurts the game. But if your knee and front leg are offside then it should be called.
@@Valpo2004 exactly. I feel like its against the spirit tbh. It's just too much intervention. At one instance a player was handing out the hand asking for a pass and because of that it was called offside, bruh common !
this is like big data and baseball, its changing the game and opposition teams can predict your opponents patterns.
Yes it is the best!
Like when it eliminated the goalkeeper as the second man in Qatar vs Ecuador, or Canada vs Belgium when the other team passed it back, or France vs Tunisia when the other defender headed the ball but France was counted offside.
Or Belgium v. Croatia when Belgium was off by atoms? The playable shoulders were even.
But yeah, it works so well ☺️
The ref has to make the final call blame the refs
to much referee power! soccer is become a dead sport! false hopes! selling dreams! the joy of a players scorings a goal taken away how many times has this happened in this world cup???
Serbia vs Swis handplay by Swis player and nothings happen
Why is everyone forgetting the most important part..."WHEN THE BALL IS PLAYED"
Was watching France vs Tunisia group stage match and I don't quite understand why Griezman's goal in the last few minutes was considered an offside.
He was in offside position when his teammate played the ball but he actually didn't follow up from that action. The ball first got headed by a Tunisian defender and its only after that that Griezman came in and scored....
How did y’all know I was wondering this the whole time 😭
A curious mind is a beautiful and a curse at the same time.
fr, this came out at the perfect time
when the🗿
Me too...this is my first time watching fifa wc
They are spying on you bro 👿
Any discussion of offside like this must include a discussion of overlapping body parts. Can the attacking player’s finger be offside if the rest of him is onside? Head? Foot? Knee? That’s what these calls come down to.
Only the parts of the body you can use to play football count for offsides. Your hand or arm doesn't
@@ggandalff I know, but if you don’t watch the game and are relying on this video to help you understand, you will still be confused.
1:26 "While the ball is in Play" you mean when the ball is kicked?
yes
this literally happened with the qatar vs senegal game, one of the qatari players was running towards the goal, saw the opposing player coming closer, stuck out a foot and was completely bulldozed by him and the ref didn't call it smh. One of the worst calls i've ever seen, idc if you think he was looking for it you don't get to run into a player and not call it cuz u think he was lookin for it
But that's actually how it is tho if I intentionally jump infront of a player that wasn't looking for me while running I'm the one making the foul
if you slow it down and look closely, before the contact was even made, qatar player bent his knees and was going down. For me it is an instance of a very mild physical duel and very good acting on qatar players part
@@dejomrsic6093 I completely agree, great job of selling but the opposing player bought it, if you see someone doing that you let em fall and you let the ref book him simulation, very simple
@@liiyowmomo3605 opposing player did, but the ref and the var room didn't and made the right call
your explanation on the offside rule made it more complicated for people to follow
it's the simplest way to do it for a non football watcher
@@renex_g3915 Well it made absolutely no sense to me, a non-football fan.
@@keithklassen5320 You need to pay more attention then, that's how the rule works, there's literally no other way to explain it
@@keithklassen5320 easiest summary: guy receiving pass when pass is played cannot be in between/ahead of the last 2 men on the enemy team (includes keeper)
He kinda made it seem like the player cannot enter the offside zone (which he can, as long as he doesn't receive a ball passed directly from a teammate)
You can now call offside because of a finger being offside, in my opinion, there should be a certain % of room for being offside, especially the top limbs
Fingers can't be offside.
That's incorrect. Only parts of the body that can play the ball can be offside.
You can check minute 33:45 Argentina vs Saudi Arabia where the left arm from an Argentina player was offside but the hips feet and rest of the body were not. As of the rules it says: The law states that a player is in an offside position if any of their body parts, except the hands and arms, are in the opponents' half of the pitch, and closer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent (the last opponent is usually, but not necessarily, the goalkeeper).
This is a good tool but I think it has way too little tolerance in the current World Cup. You don’t need to call offside just because of an arm
Rules is rules.
@@MaggotDiggo1 Maybe rules should be changed, then. The current state of the rule (excluding smaller revisions) is dated 17 years ago. It wasn't possible to measure offsides with centimeter precision back then. The whole point of the offside is to avoid goal-hanging, I honestly don't see how accounting for a few centimeters fulfils that purpose, I'll argue that's actually making the game worst as now you need to wait a few minutes after a goal to see if it was legal or not. If audience watching for an advantage point can't easily tell, then the rule should be changed.
There is some threshold for where someone is and isn't offside. No matter how you choose to define the rule, there will be one spot where a player could be and you would need to nitpick their exact position to make the call. By making the rule more lenient, you're just moving the threshold. By being less strict, you are just being inconsistent on your ruling.
I understand an argument about the use of tools like this being bad because it slows the game down (I disagree with this point if view, but I think it's an acceptable one.) But I don't think an argument of "eh, let's just be worse at judging this rule because I don't care about it" is reasonable.
@@MattMcConaha There's no threshold in the rule, not sure what you're talking about. The rule has 800 words explaining some situations where the interpretation of the offside is completely subjective (which makes it worse, e.g. the last goal in France vs. Tunisia). If that's what you're making a reference with threshold, well, it's not it.
I'm aware how limits work, the main point of my argument around the threshold is to make it visible for the human eye and for the players to be able to avoid an accidental offside. You can enforce a strict threshold and measure it against that (since the technology has the precision to do it), you will still have nitpick situations, but at least it will happen less often, and when you have an offside it would be clearly visible.
@@MaggotDiggo1 rules are rules*
The line for offside should be drawn where the feet are in contrast with the defender. Not the shoulder, not the head, the feet. We have too many instances of VAR overcorrection and killing momentum of the game.
Exactly I fully agree with u
but you can score with the head and shoulder tho
I think so, too. Mainly because it's just so much easier and less ambiguous to see if one player's foot is in front of another's, rather than trying to decide if this player's center of mass is this far forward when their body is in this shape relative to the other body who has their torso twisted in this way and yada yada.
As long as you pick a rule and stick with it, then the rule is the rule. Something like a simple "whose foot is farther ahead" will achieve the same general guideline of "don't be ahead of the last defender" but with less confusion over the details.
Hey guys. Thanks for the video. I think the problem is not how accurate the tool is but how much of an advantage a player is taking of that possition. Off-side rule was create to avoid the possibility of taking advantage, which seems impossible to do being off-side by 1 centimiter. That is why, in my opinion this rule should be aplied on a subjective way until we find the way to messure advantage.
Au contraire, it’s exactly for the reason you mentioned, this rule should continue to be applied indiscriminately until the said advantage you mentioned can be measured objectively.
I am a referee myself and I find that this rule is very good the way it is handled. It gives a very clear black and white rule and makes calls consistent and fast. If you would make calls more subjective I think it would make it worse than it is now
See the think about rules, especially in sports: The more subjective, the harder the rule is to enforce, the more inconsistent and thus the more problematic
Totally agree the rule should be changed giving more room 2 players starting to run side by side but one had a hand stretched before starting it's not and advantage at all nor what the offside rule was created for
@@_chaitanyajoshi it shouldn't be more subjective but it should be changed the original point of the rule was to avoid teams leaving one player close to the goal just to receive and score 1v1, having to players side by side it's not and unfair advantage at all
Cant wait for suarez to Goal Keep Vs Ghana Again🌚
0:38 hands happened again during the ARG-NED game, so basically as long as you're sporting a blue/white shirt with a 10 on it, you'll get a pass
Seeing Jeremiah in this was an absolutely total, but pleasant, surprise. Go Sounders.
This morning i searched for "fifa AR cameras" and i didnt find much now this pops in to my feed. Love it
"Mahradoona"
You did not explain the offside rule correctly.
1. Yes 2 defensive players do have to be between the attacking player and the goal but, importantly, when the ball is played to them, i.e. at the moment the passer touches the ball.
2. The attacking player has to be active, i.e. they need to be affecting the play at the moment the ball is passed to them.
The second point confuses people a lot because you get offsides not called even though an attacking player doesn't have 2 defensive players between them and the goal when they are not actively involved in the play. Also, players can be offside if they are obstructing the goalkeeper even if they didn't touch the ball because they were affecting play.
The problem with VAR is that it isn’t consistent. It needs to be used on all debatable incidents or not at all. And calling the referee only if there is a “clear and obvious error” is not acceptable, as that leaves the decisions to humans whether it is a clear and obvious error, which defeats the purpose. A slight handball in an El Clásico shouldn’t be treated differently than a slight handball in Leeds v Crystal Palace. And the anonymity of the process is problematic, because right now I’m 80% sure that they roll a dice before making decisions.
1:22 not while the ball is in play, while the ball gets played to them if they are behind the defender
Ah ha. The AI is using any part of the body, whereas I always thought if the center of the player's mass is behind the defender, he's not offside. This explains why AI has a lower threshold for calling a foul, and why even on video review I was confused.
Yeah, you just need to have any body part that can touch the ball in an offside position for it to be called, so anything besides the arms but including the shoulders.
@@ArthurPMotta generally speaking a human referee wouldnt call something most people would disagree on just because of a technicality, (unless they wanted one team to lose anyways) so this rule needs to be updated to account AI which doesnt have human judgement
One of the things which rarely, if ever, gets talked about is how they determine which frame to stop the footage on before you can even begin to compare the relative position of two players. Do they use high speed cameras for that? If not, the resulting information can be skewed massively in the 1/30 or 1/60th of a second each regular TV camera can record the moment the ball leaves the player's foot for the potentially offside pass. Often, jumping one frame forward or backwards it all it takes to be clearly offside or not.
They do use high speed cameras to match the exact frame the ball was kicked, thats the key moment to then determine when the pass was made what the position of the receiver
The use of high-speed cameras is the reason you get flawless slow-motion footage during games so I think most of the cameras are able to do that.
If you watch the video it explains how the world cup ball has a sensor inside it 3:20 which gives an accurate kick point. (offside is from when the ball is touched not when it leaves a player's foot)
@@mboothy the offside is at the precise moment the ball leaves the contact with the player doing the pass if the receiver is behind the defender
@@pasta1998 wrong, law 11.2 says it is the moment the ball is played or touched (i.e. the first contact)
In tennis, Hawk-Eye technology exists for over a decade, and even in football, since 2014 there's similar software to detect whether a ball crossed the goal line completely. This offside tech was long overdue
This new offsides AI depends on both the time the ball was passed and the position of players when said ball was passed. I imagine the hardest part of the process is the latter, as tracking a live human, much less 2 or more could prove difficult.
Tracking a ball is a piece of cake compared to tracking a human. For a number of reasons.
For instance, to track a tennis ball you might just know what color the ball is. It's that weird yellow-green. And you know it's a sphere. You place your cameras around the stadium, calibrate their pose relative to the court, and then you can process the video using fairly basic algorithms to find Circular objects that appear in frame which are the correct color and appear in the same ray-traced position on all cameras. And in a lot of sports they even mount a location sensor in the ball, which by itself could even be enough. For a human you can rely on their color, their shape, or pretty much anything else to write a basic algorithm to locate them like that reliably, especially when there are a bunch if them out there on the field.
Players have rely on their subjective perspective to judge offsides as well. There is a danger of making players overly cautious and the game less exciting.
But then again the biggest problem in soccer is the simulated faults. I remember one player ("Bobô" was his name) in my country who was kinda "specialist" in it and gave a whole 101 on how to do it right in a comedy show. How to dive accordingly, to grimace, and on. It was like one of those movie fight scenes haha
Penaldo does not agree with you. Penaldo says all his dives and goals are legit.
Why don’t they just measure offside by the edge of the feet and use a similar system that track events use to remove subjectivity from offside decisions?
Isn't the most accurate view a direct top-down view?
I kind of like the subjectivity of reffing in sports. Makes it more interesting
Lets not talk about somebody's 'header' yesterday haha
Ronaldo lives rent free
The REAL problem imho is that this stuff should work as a challenge, like in volleyball or tennis. The team desires to modify the referee's call? Challenge it. If it was a good call, the team cannot complain anymore until half-time. Reviewing every single thing is a pain in the _ss, the game should flow and only the evident mistakes (noticed by the defending team) should be called out and modified. The player knows if he didn't commit a penalty, so alert the captain to ask for a review. This should push the players to act in a more fair manner, no point letting your team argue a penalty you DID commit. The current situation takes back lots of goals in milimeter-offside plays. Let the team judge if it is worthy reviewing the play. Or let the offside be automatic, but introduce the challenge for penalty/no penalty and red card/no red card
I totally agree. Plus, in this way you will only review plays that human eye could have noticed, since nobody is going to challenge a play that they couldn’t see.
We need a VAR inside FIFA's offices so we can have a subjective view of which regime gave money to whom. Replays on a court of law would be great too.
🤓
“Yeah if it's my team losing then opponent paid money to VAR”
@@XoRvULtDIsn’t that everyone? 😅
They should incorporate ranges. Humans are not robots and if I’m 0.02 inches offside it doesn’t give me an advantage, even though the AI might catch it.
You mean Semi-automated offside? The title sounds wrong.
What are the margins of error of the data that the IA is being fed?
Who tested the precision and accuracy of the system? Who certifies it?
How can we be sure that the system takes the correct players in critical moments?
Why is this information not publically available?
After working with IA I can tell you, it is not even close to being infallible, sometimes is even more fallible than humans depending of the quality of data that is being fed.
This is not medical AI, chill out a bit. It's probably had the appropriate testing, and the task itself is pretty easy
@@giannis5250 With the amount of money and influence FIFA handles? I doubt it. I really do.
@@Juanixtec this information IS public btw
@@renex_g3915 Where?
I'd like to see a Vox video about Maradona's second goal that afternoon. We got replays but we won't see something like that again.
I think there’s a mistake around the 3-minute mark - in VAR decisions in the English Premier League, offside is already decided by “AI”. The referee more reviews instant replays of fouls and handballs, but offside is an objective decision based on technology stuff lol
It's not decided by AI. the VAR refs can use technology as you say, but they have to manually create the lines. Which is why offside decision can take minutes, leading to frustrating break in play. Especially when reviewing multiple things at once, for instance first reviewing if a foul should be a pen, and then whether that pen should be voided because of an offside decision earlier in the play. In this years World Cup it's much more automated and the offsides are decided in seconds, not minutes.
@@syverolesen7664 gotcha, makes sense!
Wow - VERY well explained!
VAR is not semi automatic, is still a human factor behind cameras. Second goal of Argentina against Saudi wasn't offside, they forgot to see the fourth defender (n 13 Yasser). The creator of this technology said it himself
Do you know to what precision does the AI recreate the 3Ds bodies of the players ? Thank you
I feel like they can alter those 3d bodies...I don't trust them
Why is it that only 20 seconds of the video actually somewhat relates to the title of the video? And that 20 seconds didn't even deep dive into how the tech works.
first you need to explain the offside rule
Aaaaaaa I have waited for this video 🔥😍 I knew vox will be the one to tell me. And all in the best shortest most informative, creative way! Much love to Voxoxo
There is no advantage when a knee or a shoulder is a bit further. That could also be the players physiognomy. They have to really think about when it is advantageous for the team who did an offside. Back in the day was the line of the player’s feet. If the defense is not fast enough to go to the ball that’s not the forward’s fault.
Ironically, he is saying it so the TH-cam AI can pick it up and display the video if people search for “AI”
Check the Tottenham vs Sporting VAR decision. A 3 minute VAR check of a Kane goal done during stoppage time. It was incredibly stressful to watch.
I’m here so early, I’m offside
And players still gather around the ref screaming "trust me bro" "bro! What would Jesus do?"
Perfect timing. Want to see how the technology works
"Offside is complicated rule".. c'mon the name already kind of explains it by itself. An attacker receiving a ball from his teammate can't be benhind the last defender of the opposite team
01:00 This is a terrible description of the offside rule...
why? it's literally it
@@renex_g3915 Because it implies the player with the ball in their example would not be allowed to run forward with the ball past the defenders. Now he does *very quickly* say "Or be behind where the ball is", implying the player cannot use any kind of lone (No team mates involved) manueve to get past the last defenders that results in him being closer to the goal than the ball, which is not true. It also doesn't differentiate between the offside position and the offside offence. If in their example, the player with the ball were to shoot and score, whilst his team mate was in the offside position, their implication is it wouldn't count because the team mate was in that offside position. But that team mate would only commit an offside offense, if they became involved in play. For example, if the player with the ball took a shot, it rebounded off the goal post and the team mate in the offside position then got the ball, that would be an offense. Or if the player with the ball passed the ball, past the 2nd to last defender, to his team mate who successfully receives the pass, that is an offside offense.
0:36 It already did. Manchester City v Tottenham. Llorente scored with his arm
Life is all about ‘angles’ if you can shift perspectives everything changes. This proves that.
Things Keep getting crazier
These seems more about receiving and processing video and sensor data. Not so much predicting outcomes based on previous trials as just making sense of input and returning its outcome....
The offside rule could still be subjective. The participation of an offside player can be subjective, such as blocking the view of the goalkeeper or not for example.
As a rule of thumb, when you hear “AI,” you can mentally replace that with “a collection of if statements.”
(This technology is cool, but there’s nothing “AI” about this.)
The AI is kinda wrong considering it wrongfully ruled out Lautaro’s goal.
Okay but the whole leaning into a run and being offside by 3 or four inches is the worst. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure the rule is only supposed to apply to the lower half of the body and yet they eve thrown that out the window for this WC. On top of that a lot of refs aren't going to review footage for penalties when we should be reviewing it everytime. Players will throw themselves down in hopes of a penalty and sometimes it's just given 🤷🏽♂️ we have the technology but the refs are so inconsistent with whether or not they use it and when they do use it it's kind of just nitpicking at this point
It's only not reviewed, if the VAR thinks it's not necessary! Otherwise it would take too much time! And no, offside is for the entire lower half, and up to the shoulders and head, excluding only, the arms!
Took them long enough. Sports such as cricket and tennis been using VAR tech circa 2006. For a heavily invested sport I’m surprised it has taken them this long to develop this technology for soccer. Alike to the afore mentioned sports it too took them a while to perfect its algorithms in determining faults/errors and the tennis association had to create a standard of accuracy that the tech had to meet before it became standardised in major tennis tournaments. It too will improve with time.
That Austin FC example is still a foul 😂
It looks to me like VAR is still very corrupt. We all saw that Ronaldo did not get fouled against Senegal, but they still called it in HIS FAVOR. I have also seen it used in the Liga MX, you can see discrepancies when a home team is playing. I understand that nothing is perfect and I still believe that as much as we love to hate the refs, I still think we need them because we still need that subjectivity of a persons point of view; in a world where people don't want to hear how subjective you can be.
1st: it was ghana
2nd: the player clearly didnt hit the ball, he hit the back of his knee/leg and the contact made cr7 fall, making so a penalty, even if it was soft, it was a technical fall which prettymuch everyone would make in his situation to get awarded a penalty
@@officialpingo Thank you for correcting me with Ghana, but the player from Ghana hits the ball first that Ronaldo because of his old guy is slow to the ball, then kicks his foot, but the player from Ghana clearly got to the ball first.
Imagine scoring with your hand💀
Imagine scoring the greatest goal in World Cup history, and then scoring the most controversial goal in World Cup history. All in one game. If you don't understand the complexity of Maradona as a whole, you didn't understand football.
The hand of god, still hurts after 36 years?
Hand of God, one of a kind 🥶
It’s not AI though is it?
The offside rule needs to go. (Field) hockey got rid of it and they're doing really good rn. This technology has made the judgement way too precise that it's now basically penalising attackers for being faster than the defenders.
you should make a followup video on how it went in this WC!
0:36 "This would never happen today" is quite ironic as it still happens even when the refs look at the instant replay. SMH!
Where ?
Not nearly as blatantly as Maradona's goal, though. Players still sometimes manage to get their arm to the ball and score that way, but overtly punching the ball over the goalkeeper's head, like Maradona did, would never pass VAR.
@@rjfaber1991 where and when? have an example?
Wish the Premier League used this VAR
When I was a kid a lot of people would argue that bad calls were a part of the game. It was true that a terrible call that cost you a match would actually make you feel so outraged that it made the games deeply personal. You were less of an observer as you "knew" the right call or would at least argue about if it was right or not. And bad calls were common for and against. Now that they can use a computer to get it right you are less connected. You are more likely to believe the computer or off-field calls and accept them and not feel the same emotions.
I'm, talking about back in the 1970s when fans could tear a stadium apart if the call was bad enough and then have running battles in the street afterwards over it. Cameras in the stadium both watching the crowd and the game changed all that.
I consider it a positive change
Sounds like a good change
Amen.
Yes a change for the better, you definitely feel more connected unless your team was always cheating and trying to trick the refs
this video production is very impressive !
*_I hope Vox never ends and keeps on spreading all the love and happiness_* 💓
You forgot to mention that being offside is not prohibited. Only if you also happen to receive the ball or be involved in the action.
Or you could just change the rules to make it less reliant on hundreds of cameras.
I think offside should be determined by a players center of mass, not whether their hand is over the line by inches. I've seen PL goals disallowed where a player was called offsides because they were raising their hand calling for the ball. There's no real advantage there. That said, if someone is leaning toward into the first step of a sprint, I do think that is a real advantage and should be called off. Admittedly center of mass is difficult to measure especially with cameras, but the tech here seems that it would be more than capable of producing very good estimates. But yeah, I think it's an essential but annoying rule that let's the defense off the hook more than it should.
On thing that nobody explains is why offsides exists in the first place. Can someone please give us an explanation?
I've always thought that it was a rule to avoid players to be too close of the goal all the time, when they could receive the ball from a greater distance in advantage of adversary defense. But this is just a guess that I carry since I was a child.
Am I wrong? For thinking that we could be something for real? 🎶
It would be ridiculous to allow all offsides goals. All a player would have to do is simply run to the goal past the defenders and where the ball is actually being played and wait for someone to boot it over to them.
Without the offside rule, football will be too easy and that will be boring to watch... having one player located right in front of his opponents goal, waiting for a long pass evading all the defenders
yes, your guess is correct. without the offside rule, attackers could simply 'camp' behind the defenders and wait for a straight lobbed ball for them to score. this demotivates defenders to stay up the pitch and as a result, will also stick right with the attackers, and as you can slowly see... a pretty unpleasant sight is unfolding
Very important note, this system is NOT flawless. It may seem so, because of the state of the art 3d perspective it gives but these are all just reconstructions based on imperfect sensors and models that although very closely still only approximate the event as it occurred. In many cases it will be a lot more precise than any human being, or even than a team of human beings however it is important to notice that it is not objective. There are still biases in the system and it is important to recognize that (this goes for any AI ofcourse) just because a system can judge something better than us doesn't mean it can judge it perfectly. And that's why a human factor should always involved, because although any (AI) system could judge anything a lot better than we can, it doesn't do so perfectly, and it doesn't know where it makes mistakes and how to deal with those. And humans do, we have common sense. Never ever put your full trust in anything.
This technology has damaged the sport so many goals yet the cameras are judging nowadays not the referee… we are not robots we are humans and not perfect we can not judge players that much in the offside for just a shoe further from the opponent it is dump
i mean that's the thing right? human referees can give good judgement, they know how to keep a game fair and enjoyable and generally wont call on pure technicalities
an AI on the other hand has no human judgement at all it just does what it's told regardless of how badly this impacts the sport
I wish a player wear a TRACKER on their Arm make like Captain Hand Badge that link with the Ball and Lines. So, that it can easily track the offside and many more
Offside is a blight on modern football and should be reformed.
what's wrong about it
I like how this video never uses the word soccer or football to avoid the comment sections becoming a battleground
Vox's quality never disappoints.
It does
The main problem now a days is that the referee can ignore the var, it happens in a significant number of matches including FIFA world's cup.
(llora en argentino)
yankis opinando de futbol, es asi
Did you guys at Vox saw the Japan vs Spain game?