Hi Oscar, I got a great early education from my parents who used to hold me up to wave at passing trains as they thundered through Macclesfield- so Class 86s are an early memory for me! Belated thanks to the drivers that used to always wave and Hoot their horns- or though in hindsight it may have been at my mum as she followed the sixties fashions at the time!! Of course the locos were all blue in those days and when they first emerged (like butterflies) in Inter City we thought they looked amazing- it is a really classy livery and was startling at the time. The Hornby model fully captures the looks of an 86 and those Mk 3 coaches are perfect- they have buffers (optional to add if I remember rightly) to distinguish from the HST ones which were fixed rakes. Great to see working catenary- so many layouts (European in particular) have locos with pantographs waving pointlessly in the air and this totally ruins the effect for me. Can we see two trains running round the mainline at the same time on the same track? I remember my Uncle’s layout had this and I thought it was like magic (actually better than Paul Daniels!) Enjoy the rest of your day- thanks again:-))
Good morning Ned, nice to hear yo enjoyed seeing the catenary in action. I shall have to get out the EM2 in BR blue for a bit of a run to take advantage of the catenary and that long straight along the back of the layout. Thanks again for watching and taking the time to write the great comment. Take care. Oscar
Hello Oscar my husband and I are watching all your videos and we are really enjoying them. Brings back great memories for my husband Ray as he had a Tri-ang railway set as a boy and this and all his other trains have been in storage since 1976! You explain the workings of each model so well...now he knows why some of his locamotives didn't run so well towards the end of there use. Such as the Tri-ang brush type 31 green livary. Keep the videos going please!!! Much appreciated 😃🤗
Good morning great to hear you are both enjoying then videos I'm glad your finding them interesting. Thanks for watching and taking the time leave this terrific comment its very much appreciated. Oscar
Hello Oscar. I always like your approach, we are only playing with 'toy trains'. There are some beautiful layouts out there and are taken very seriously. There is nothing wrong in that at all but it is good to just play. As always thank you so much.
Sods Law states that if you want the loco to go in the direction you plan, it will go in the opposite😀Well done on the replacement panto! Layout coming along nicely - thanks for sharing.
As always a very interesting video Oscar i like the mark 3 coaches the blood and custard are a bit bright the ones i have are darker was that a different year well hope you all are keeping well hope to see you next week Mel nz
Hello Oscar, I can see that soon you will have a lot of the points working remotely. It will be excellent seeing you run some interesting routes on the layout. The Class 86 pantograph seems very problematic, the skate looks very awkward with no real round edges and a poor fixing, it's good you have got it going despite the poor design. I really like all of the catenary. Great to see this layout evolve. Take care, all the best to you.
Hi oscar Think all is looking great tour additions are well thought out. The overhead seems a bit troublesome but it will be fine with a bit of work. Good work anyway my friend. Till next week. Regards paul osman
Thanks again Paul, glad you are enjoying seeing the railway progress. Its defiantly turned into more than I was originally thinking about. Stay safe. Oscar
Hi Oscar, it was me who suggested fitting the pantograph the way you have, with the problem your having now try using the original wire off your broken pantograph (the part you had to unhook to disassemble) the tension is possible a bit tight and is not allowing it to move freely. To be honest collecting current from the wires with a class 86 was very hit and miss. The class 81 (E3001) would of hauled the mk3 coaches in that livery in later life as well as moving empty coaching stock out of Euston in the late 80’s. Great video again
Thanks again for the information in very much appreciated. I think you right it always going to be a bit hit and miss with they model. Stay safe. Oscar
Regarding the power supply, how big a circuit would one power clip give. My track layout approx 10 ft by 3ft with just the one set of power cables. Great to see the layout progressing. The lockdown has given me the opportunity to get my old hornby locos etc a run out
Good morning Andrew, this lockdown has defiantly created some extra time for model railway! I did originally have both the inner and outer lines with just one feed it was ok but there were defiant points at which the power faded and adding more point seemed to add to the problem so adde a second power clip which was a big improvement. The power clips I have are a bit flimsy and I had intermittent problems with there connection to the track and the terminal the connectors not staying seated firmly in them. So I decided to make a direct connection to the rails outside line has five feeds and the inner line has four. The difference in running is very apparent. I chose to solder directly to the side of the rails to make these connections. However my last layout 10x5ft with Super 4 track had two circuits inner and outer the outer having an up and over the inner line had two feeds one at either end of the board and the outer had three feeds with one of them being on the elevated section. For the power feeds I used Super 4 power clips which I never had a problem with over the life of the layout and the feed to the elevated section was a solder connection as I was unable to fit a power clip with the track side walls in place. I don't think there one solution that fits all, add extra feeds if you find you need them, these could be power clips in good condition (mine were in very poor condition) or one of the many ways of making a direct connection to the rails. Its what works for you and is all part of then fun in developing a railway. Hope this was of some help thanks for watching. Take care. Oscar
@@oscarpaisley thank you oscar for reply. I have the older style hornby clip on my circuit currently. I do have a spare one so I may add this one to the opposite end of oval. Looking on line the general consensus does seem to be to solder direct to rails which does make sense.
Great video as always Oscar. The pantograph skates on the Hornby era locos lack the sufficient amount of curvature used on the Triang versions. I’m using the Triang phase one catenary system with the newer “sparkies”!
Hi Oscar. What I did was turn the joining pieces the other way up so the line of the join faces upwards. You can file the connector with a draw file so it does not catch on the panto. That's what I did.
Hi Oscar. Another great video 👍🏻 I’m sure eventually you’ll sort that glass 86 pantograph out 🤣 You always do a fantastic tutorial on how things work. Take care cheers Stevie 😎
Great to see real railroading, not edited to make it look perfect. Certain switches on my layout derail at about a 30% rate. We all get through it, don't we? Be well!
Your new Mk3 coaches are spot-on with your Class 86. There were plenty of 86s around in the "Executive" livery (as per your loco) when there were Mk3s in the newer "Swallow" livery (like your coaches). The "42" number indicates that the coaches were to be numbered in the HST trailer series (42xxx), but as they have buffers (unlike HST trailers), they are correct for being loco-hauled Mk3s. Stay Safe as ever Oscar.
Enjoyable video, it's certainly coming on nicely. For point switches I use 2 separate push switches available in different colours and work well with cdu. Regards norm
Hi Oscar ,yes it’s a shame the pantograph is a pain the 86 is a fine model let down by it’s panto but later ones are fitted with a better type ,the original hornby mk 3 coaches are under scale length but I like them bec the go around 1st radius curves and do foul unlike my scale length Mk3s,at one time you could get the short ones for next to nothing and people would cut them up for conversions into emus etc ,now as they are getting more sort after if eBay and hattons Pre owned dept is anything to go by ,once again my friend great posting be safe to you all and anyone reading this ,take care ,Mark 😊😊👍🏻❄️❄️
Good morning Mark, its a loverly model that 86, I think I shall keep my eye out for a few of the other variation plus the odd coach to keep them company. Thanks again. Stay safe. Oscar
Interesting viewing as always. That modern pantograph is a big problem, I hope you find a way to make it work better. The Tri-ang one may not look as accurate but at least it works. The Class 86 is a very smart looking model and now that you have the coaches, it looks even better. Great livery. The progress on the layout is good to see, great fun, as you say. 👍😊
Hi Oscar another great video, them mk3 coaches have the swallow style intercity logo for 89 on the smaller intercity logo is for the 86 to 89 executive livery, the buffers were an option to fit for the intercity 125(class 43) trains . Them power clips are not the best I agree. The layout is coming on fantastically part of the fun is ironing out the teathing problems. Brian
Your right Oscar, TOY TRAINS. I clearly remember in the mid 60s wanting the new E3001 loco, the picture in he catalogue was wonderful but the loco was ok and the two pantographs were AWFUL, Having said that the nostalgic toys trains were great fun and when your 12 a boy you can tolerate the imperfections . Such a long time ago now
I agree with Steve Oscar in 1970 as a little boy seeing the what was now known as a class 81 wanting one took until 2018 I found one on eBay £120 in mint boxed condition ,that’s a big mark up on original price but glad I got it ,don’t tell the Mrs how much I paid 👍🏻😂😂👍🏻
Hello Oscar and thank you for this new episode on the advancement of your network. Too bad the new panto of the Class 86 poses a problem. This must be because the bow (what you call skate), tends to rise on the side opposite to its binding. The ideal would be for it to be articulated in its center, like the real ones or, in model making, at Sommerfeld, for example. But here, we are no longer in the original model .... Have a good week, and good luck for the future (especially for the wiring!). Sincerely, from France. Philippe
Hi, Philippe thanks again. you are right the skate/bow should not be moving like it is. Hornby seem to have designed it as a push in part that is completely free to move rather than an articulated connection which would hold it inline with the rest of the assemble. Stay safe. Oscar
Happy memories of brother and I running the hornby model C1980 onwards. First thing I did was remove the top part of the Hornby pantograph and build the top section from fairly thick wire (1.5 sq mm I think) soldering by hand and making a Much more passable representation of the AMBR pantograph. I compromised by having just a single top piece rather than the two piece assembly of the real thing.
Thank you for this mornings viewing. The troublesome pantograph does look to be a poor design - I imagine many people have spent hours trying to get them to work correctly, and all the components are so tiny! Nice to see your layout is still progressing well. All the best to you. Gord :-)
Great video Oscar, the older version I noticed only has the part to the skate, maybe the double skate is part of your problem, thanks again, keep safe and well
I have seen some modelers shorten the travel of the pantograph so that it does not come into contact with the wire at all but it looks the part and then run the loco from the rail power. I would think that even with your expanded layout, the likelihood of you running two independently controlled trains on the same track is remote. Otherwise, the loco runs well and looks great with the new coaches. I solder my power wires to the fishplates providing that they are a tight fit. Regards, David.
Another nice look at your progress, it certainly looks like the overhead system can be a bit troublesome at times. Out of interest do you have any special cleaning requirement for the overhead wires, I take it they must oxidise and get grubby over time just like the track rails. It's not a system I have ever thought of installing but I still find it interesting.
Good morning Rob, running along it by hand with a cotton buds damp with a track cleaning fluid of choice does the job. It gets quite dirty around the joints and the older wires are easier to clean than later ones I'm not sure when the switch was made in materiel used the earlier type must nickel-based I think. Also, it can always be dropped off the clips if needed. Thanks again. Oscar
Hi Oscar, love the layout, it's coming along really well. How about fixing the Class 86 Pantograph just below the lowest point of the overhead wire? You could then power the loco from the track but it would still look as if it was powered from the O/H wire. Take care, Dave.
Re: The pantograph. The spring seems strong enough in general. Yet with a missing arm, the pantograph is twisting. This twist adds a very large frictional load at each of the joints. (1) Add a touch of dry lubrication, like graphite powder to all of the rotating interfaces. (2) Get that arm back in to reduce the twisting moment. The cantenary clip should be modestly touched with a fine file, creating ramps at the clips instead of hard edges.
It’s a shame that Hornby couldn’t make as good a pantograph as Triang 20 years previously ! I always thought the Hornby Mk3s were a missed opportunity . They are too short , although you would need to watch you don’t get the later full length ones because I think the extra length would foul you catenary /curved platforms . Back in the 70s I opted for Joueff ones because they were the correct length . Where do you get your wire from if you don’t mind me asking and is it a doe if if grade . These suitcase connectors look good . My wiring is overdue an upgrade !
Good morning Russell I don't think I will be going full length Mk3s as you say there would be a few problems with eta curves, posts and platform edges. I'm pretty sure everything I have will now run through the station! All my cabling came from ESR Electronic Components Ltd www.esr.co.uk/electronics/products/frame_cable.htm they have a great site they are local to me so I usually pick up directly from them, although the Scotch Lock Wire Connectors came from that well know auction site at 4.99 per 100 from the UK with free post. They have worked very well. Thanks again for watching. Oscar
Good morning Alan thanks again for watching glad you enjoying the progress on the railway. Spare Tri-ang pantographs are so had to find, but its a possibility. Oscar
Hey up Just had a though What if you get another class 86 by hornby but get a pantograph from a triang electric bo bo and fit the triang on onto the hornby boddy and chassis so it's a class 86 with a triang pantograph...
Hi thats a great idea, but those older pantographs are very difficult to get hold of as well as been hugely expensive. It may not be practical. Thank again for watching. Oscar
Hi as Erik Morrison has indicated in the attached comment the model was original designed to take advantage of a over head power supply system by means of a selector switch on the roof, although I don't think many ever used the it. Thanks for watching. Os ar
Rather than soldering onto the rails which can wreck the sleeper web, have you tried either soldering onto the underside of the fishplates or else buying the Peco pre soldered fishplates?
The upper and lower pantograph arm's on the 81 seem to sit at the same angle, the 86 lower arm seems too vertical and the upper arm seems too horizontal, could this be part of the problem, although I think the collecting strip is the main issue as other's have mentioned. Rather than replace with a 81 pantograph would it be possible to replace just the collecting strip with one from a 81 and affix it in the same manner as on the 81.
Good morning thanks again for watching, there were defiantly some interesting decisions made when Hornby designed this pantograph. Thanks for watching. Oscar
I think you may be right, sadly the older one's are now very hard to get hold of. If they were readily available I would be tempted to have ago. Thanks for watching. Oscar
Hello Oscar, I asked a while back about what track system to use for triang trains and you suggested system 4. I now have a problem. I have a fairly large layout using standard peco track and points. (I believe it is similar to system 6) I sold much of you rolling stock some 2 years ago. Now I want to use it again, but would like to run a mixture of triang and early hornby. Having looked at the cost of replacing with system 4, I simply afford it. Would triang run on the peco track? Would the courser knurled wheels run on it? Thanks for your time. PS your fault you revived my interest in the triang trains lol
Good morning Brian thanks again for watching, sorry to have started you off on any bad habits, Quit a lot of the layer Tri-ang Hornby item will run especially 1970 onwards. I think they produced knurled wheels for a short period of time with shallower flanges during the change over from Super 4 to the then-new System 6 but then stopped making knurled for the models in the range that still used them and gave them smooth ones with shallow flanges. I'm sure there is someone online making reproductions of these as they show up on that well-known auction site from time to time. I think with models pre 1969 it can be a bit hit and miss as to whether or not the wheels are happy on the newer track style, sometimes its the back to back which is the problem. A fixed measurement taken straight from a contemporary model is not always the answer as have to consider not just the depth but the thickness/profile of the flange. Sometimes some experimentation with this can get good results provided the overall depth is not so great. Hope this was of some help. Stay safe. Oscar
Layout coming together. It would be nice to see a brake van of some description with the Mk3’s and electric loco. A full brake would be ok although not sure if Hornby ever produced one in InterCity”raspberry ripple” livery. Mind you as you say as you say it runs ok without and a major operating incident is unlikely to result! It’s nice to see “electric” locos running off the overheads-pity the class 86 pan. is not better designed. It’s interesting that the Mk3 coaches are correct for loco hauled coaches ( the loco hauled Mk3’s have buffers the HST version didn’t) but numbers in the 42 range were HST vehicles on the prototype. Oh dear I am becoming a bit pedantic, sorry! Good work.
Hi oscar another great video the pantograph on hornby class 86/2 electric locomotives are not good I replaced the hornby pantographs with lima ones on my hornby class86 locomotives but there are other makes out there like pole or sommerfeldt pantographs stay safe and well mate goodbye for now clive in N.lreland
Good morning Clive thanks again for the information and taking the time to watch. I shall keep a lookout at other options on the pantographs. Take care. Oscar
Interesting that you ditched nearly all your power connecting clips for solder; is that because the clips are simply old? or is it endemic to the product. Nice update again Oscar. Do you plan to do much more scenery and buildings or will it be more minimalist than your last layout. regards Paul
Good morning Paul, they were just not that reliable the ones I have at present. The pins kept dropping out and the contact with the underside of the rail was very poor. Not the like ones used on Super 4 with there big sprung contact surface and positive fit, maybe better quality examples would perform differently. Solder was the more reliable option for me at this point. On the last layout, I just had the one soldered feed which was on the elevated section where it was not possible to fit a Super 4 power clip due to the sidewalls, all the rest on that layout were the standard one for that track system. I think the layout will remain quit minimal on the scenery front. Thanks again for watching. Oscar
Hi Oscar, Been thinking a bit more on the issue with the 86. I've always wondered about using very long spans of wire to try and keep those connection points on the Catenary to a minimum? Not sure of what gauge the Tri-ang wire is? Never even thought to measure it really. But they sell roles of Nickel Silver craft or Jewelry wire in various gauges, www.amazon.com/Nickel-Silver-Wire-SOFT-Spool/dp/B01GPWWLRQ From an electrical stand point, it would make sense to keep connections to a minimum. Although Nickel Silver wire might not be strong enough to stay kink free. Maybe electric fence steel wire would be a better choice? www.homedepot.com/p/OOK-100-ft-75-lb-14-Gauge-Galvanized-Steel-Wire-50142/100200924?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D25H-G-D25H-25_4_BUILDERS_HARDWARE-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BuildersHardware_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D25H-G-D25H-25_4_BUILDERS_HARDWARE-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BuildersHardware_LIA-71700000044822926-58700004636006010-92700052754919315&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6t6ABhDMARIsAONIYyy92UgXDLI4W-Rqf59V6DYPEgiHKtg4kU7Q-IyuBPabPsJYjMqV_d0aAuFwEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Lisa
Good morning Lisa, thanks for the information. I think the older wires supplied by Tri-ang had some element of nickel in them, they appear very warm in colour and are non-magnetic. Compared to the later wires which appear to be steel and are much harder to shape than the earlier wires. Conductivity between the wire never seems to be that much of an issue as the connectors are a very good fit, unlike rail joiners which distort but the later wire need cleaning more often. Have had used what the model suppliers call piano wire in 1-yard lengths as an experiment on the last layout and that was even tougher to shape. I've not used any of this solar on this layout Stay safe. Oscar
Good morning, yes I do use the auction site you mention and the I regally buy from the three dealers listed below. Thanks for watching. Oscar Elaine’s Trains elaines-trains.co.uk Dave Angell daveangell.co.uk Triangman tri-angman.co.uk
The Early HORNBY MK 3 Coaches are not to scale they are only 65 ft long a Mk 3a is 75 ft long and they have no buffers as the for HST set a little bit different from the locomotive hulled Coaches .i sent a letter to them about this way back in the 1970s they ignored my letter .
She’s certainly a pretty model, but she doesn’t like running with the pantograph up!! And if the pantograph was broken in some way, it might not work properly!!
Oscar, it strikes me that your masts are too close together, especially the lattice double track masts, so you should be able to get further coverage and on the sections of straight track, even the single masts could probably be further apart giving you further coverage
Good morning I've found in practice that masts need to be about 7in (18cm) apart on a curve or straight to ensure the pantograph has good contact with the wire, going beyond creates significant problems. This would appear to even more important with the later white masts due to there very poor construction especially when combined with equally poor design of the pantographs used on these models in the 80s. I've included an extract below from the instructions that originally came with the toys in the 80s. Thanks for watching. Oscar (In order to obtain sufficient rigidity and positional accuracy of the centenary wires, it is desirable for the track and mast bases to be fixed to a baseboard. Ideally, there should be a mast approximately every 6"-8" (16- 20cm) where the centenary wire is suspended above curved track and approximately every 9" (24cm) above the straight track. There are configurations of track and points where the gaps between masts may have to be extended beyond these figures.)
@@oscarpaisley yes for sure on the curves that's more of an issue ... but more spacing of the lattice double track masts will not only improve the realism but also help give you further coverage- I have seen layouts adapt these for three, four and more parallel tracks as per in reality over the early WCML ole project (South of Crewe)
Hi Oscar, I'm glad you found a way to fix that 86. I do admit, I hate that skate on the 86. The tabs that fix it to the arm should ideally be on the middle part of the skate so it sits more flush against the wire. Even if it isn't prototypical looking, it would greatly improve the operational aspect of the model. Would a Triang pantograph fit on the 86? I'd rather have something functional even if it doesn't look totally correct for the model. That Hornby design sure is nuts! I've been looking for GE style pantograph's for my GG-1 locomotives by Rivarossi, The closest thing I've been able to find are pantograph parts by Jouef. I wonder if Jouef makes anything that would work for the Class 86? Lisa
Hi Lisa, thanks again for watching Hornby defiantly made a interesting pantograph for this particular model, even when they changed the pantograph on later models it still had the same issues with the poorly thought out skate. I shall perhaps keep a look out at other alternatives. Stay safe. Oscar
Good vid Oscar watched plenty of them... Question: had my first experience of model trains as an 11yr old My Dad bought me a 2nd hand Train set Princess Elizabeth and the Red and Yellow coaches and a Mail coach that had the openings at the side, why was there never a flanged wheel in the middle wheel on the engine? seemed to spoil the REAL affect.
Good morning Tony, great to hear you are enjoying the videos. I think the centre wheels on many Tri-ang models were flangeless to enable it to deal with the tight curves that are found within the track system. Thanks for watching. Oscar
Good morning yes it DC and the overhead supply is live so those models that were original designed to collect from the catenary will do so. Great to hear you are enjoying DCC I think the sound elements that are now being developed are excellent strand to the hobby. Thanks for watching a taking the time comment its hugely appreciated. Stay safe. Oscar
Hi Oscar, I got a great early education from my parents who used to hold me up to wave at passing trains as they thundered through Macclesfield- so Class 86s are an early memory for me! Belated thanks to the drivers that used to
always wave and Hoot their horns- or though in hindsight it may have been at my mum as she followed the sixties fashions at the time!!
Of course the locos were all blue in those days and when they first emerged (like butterflies) in Inter City we thought they looked amazing- it is a really classy livery and was startling at the time.
The Hornby model fully captures the looks of an 86 and those Mk 3 coaches are perfect- they have buffers (optional to add if I remember rightly) to distinguish from the HST ones which were fixed rakes.
Great to see working catenary- so many layouts (European in particular) have locos with pantographs waving pointlessly in the air and this totally ruins the effect for me. Can we see two trains running round the mainline at the same time on the same track? I remember my Uncle’s layout had this and I thought it was like magic (actually better than Paul Daniels!)
Enjoy the rest of your day- thanks again:-))
Good morning Ned, nice to hear yo enjoyed seeing the catenary in action. I shall have to get out the EM2 in BR blue for a bit of a run to take advantage of the catenary and that long straight along the back of the layout.
Thanks again for watching and taking the time to write the great comment.
Take care.
Oscar
Hello Oscar my husband and I are watching all your videos and we are really enjoying them. Brings back great memories for my husband Ray as he had a Tri-ang railway set as a boy and this and all his other trains have been in storage since 1976! You explain the workings of each model so well...now he knows why some of his locamotives didn't run so well towards the end of there use. Such as the Tri-ang brush type 31 green livary. Keep the videos going please!!! Much appreciated 😃🤗
Good morning great to hear you are both enjoying then videos I'm glad your finding them interesting.
Thanks for watching and taking the time leave this terrific comment its very much appreciated.
Oscar
Full of nostalgia and reminds me very much of my childhood model railway memories. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Hello Oscar. I always like your approach, we are only playing with 'toy trains'. There are some beautiful layouts out there and are taken very seriously. There is nothing wrong in that at all but it is good to just play.
As always thank you so much.
Good morning Mike thanks again for watching and taking the time to write your terrific comment it's very much appreciated.
Take care.
Oscar
Sods Law states that if you want the loco to go in the direction you plan, it will go in the opposite😀Well done on the replacement panto! Layout coming along nicely - thanks for sharing.
Thanks Andrew glad you enjoyed the video.
Oscar
Thanks again for a another interesting and enjoyable video. Your layout is slowly coming together. Terry
Thanks Terry glad you enjoyed the video.
Oscar
Looks superb and so real, impressive close ups!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video.
Oscar
Hi Oscar,
Good update and interesting to see and hear your thoughts on cable connecting.
All looking good.
Stay safe.
Hi, Gordon thanks again for watching glad you enjoyed the update.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Great update, the layout is coming together nicely.
Good morning Joshua, thanks again for watching glad you enjoyed the video.
Stay safe.
Oscar
As always a very interesting video Oscar i like the mark 3 coaches the blood and custard are a bit bright the ones i have are darker was that a different year well hope you all are keeping well hope to see you next week Mel nz
Hi Mel, those blood and custards coaches defiantly a bit on the bright side!
Thanks again.
Oscar
Hello Oscar, I can see that soon you will have a lot of the points working remotely. It will be excellent seeing you run some interesting routes on the layout. The Class 86 pantograph seems very problematic, the skate looks very awkward with no real round edges and a poor fixing, it's good you have got it going despite the poor design. I really like all of the catenary. Great to see this layout evolve. Take care, all the best to you.
Hi, its been a bit of a trial that pantograph but great fun and the electric points will be great fun.
Thanks again.
Oscar
Hi oscar
Think all is looking great tour additions are well thought out. The overhead seems a bit troublesome but it will be fine with a bit of work. Good work anyway my friend. Till next week.
Regards paul osman
Thanks again Paul, glad you are enjoying seeing the railway progress. Its defiantly turned into more than I was originally thinking about.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Hello Oscar. Great Looking Loco. Allways Good To Watch Your Channel. Takes Me Back To My First Ever Railway. Cheers Andy.
Thanks Andy, glad you are enjoying the channel.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Hi Oscar, it was me who suggested fitting the pantograph the way you have, with the problem your having now try using the original wire off your broken pantograph (the part you had to unhook to disassemble) the tension is possible a bit tight and is not allowing it to move freely. To be honest collecting current from the wires with a class 86 was very hit and miss. The class 81 (E3001) would of hauled the mk3 coaches in that livery in later life as well as moving empty coaching stock out of Euston in the late 80’s. Great video again
Thanks again for the information in very much appreciated. I think you right it always going to be a bit hit and miss with they model.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Regarding the power supply, how big a circuit would one power clip give. My track layout approx 10 ft by 3ft with just the one set of power cables. Great to see the layout progressing. The lockdown has given me the opportunity to get my old hornby locos etc a run out
Good morning Andrew, this lockdown has defiantly created some extra time for model railway! I did originally have both the inner and outer lines with just one feed it was ok but there were defiant points at which the power faded and adding more point seemed to add to the problem so adde a second power clip which was a big improvement. The power clips I have are a bit flimsy and I had intermittent problems with there connection to the track and the terminal the connectors not staying seated firmly in them. So I decided to make a direct connection to the rails outside line has five feeds and the inner line has four. The difference in running is very apparent. I chose to solder directly to the side of the rails to make these connections.
However my last layout 10x5ft with Super 4 track had two circuits inner and outer the outer having an up and over the inner line had two feeds one at either end of the board and the outer had three feeds with one of them being on the elevated section. For the power feeds I used Super 4 power clips which I never had a problem with over the life of the layout and the feed to the elevated section was a solder connection as I was unable to fit a power clip with the track side walls in place.
I don't think there one solution that fits all, add extra feeds if you find you need them, these could be power clips in good condition (mine were in very poor condition) or one of the many ways of making a direct connection to the rails. Its what works for you and is all part of then fun in developing a railway.
Hope this was of some help thanks for watching.
Take care.
Oscar
@@oscarpaisley thank you oscar for reply. I have the older style hornby clip on my circuit currently. I do have a spare one so I may add this one to the opposite end of oval. Looking on line the general consensus does seem to be to solder direct to rails which does make sense.
Great video as always Oscar.
The pantograph skates on the Hornby era locos lack the sufficient amount of curvature used on the Triang versions.
I’m using the Triang phase one catenary system with the newer “sparkies”!
Good morning Jim, I think you are spot no there about the design. Love the older phase one type catenary.
Thanks again.
Oscar
Hi Oscar. What I did was turn the joining pieces the other way up so the line of the join faces upwards. You can file the connector with a draw file so it does not catch on the panto. That's what I did.
Good morning Allen thanks for the information and taking the time to watch it's very much appreciated.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Hi Oscar. Another great video 👍🏻 I’m sure eventually you’ll sort that glass 86 pantograph out 🤣 You always do a fantastic tutorial on how things work. Take care cheers Stevie 😎
Hi, thanks again for watching Stevie, glad you enjoyed the video.
take care.
Oscar
Great video Oscar that 86 looks very good
Hi David great to hear you enjoyed the video.
Take care.
Oscar
Great to see real railroading, not edited to make it look perfect. Certain switches on my layout derail at about a 30% rate. We all get through it, don't we? Be well!
Glad you enjoyed it.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Your new Mk3 coaches are spot-on with your Class 86.
There were plenty of 86s around in the "Executive" livery (as per your loco) when there were Mk3s in the newer "Swallow" livery (like your coaches).
The "42" number indicates that the coaches were to be numbered in the HST trailer series (42xxx), but as they have buffers (unlike HST trailers), they are correct for being loco-hauled Mk3s.
Stay Safe as ever Oscar.
Good morning Peter, thanks again for watching and the great information.
Take care.
Oscar
Those Intercity Coaches are quite nice. I have a rake of 8 of them that go with my Class 43 125 HST. They do run really smoothly.
Good morning Brendan, I but that rake of eight looks and sound great great underway.
Thanks again.
Oscar
Enjoyable video, it's certainly coming on nicely. For point switches I use 2 separate push switches available in different colours and work well with cdu. Regards norm
Hi, Norman thanks for watching and the information. Its much appreciated.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Hi Oscar ,yes it’s a shame the pantograph is a pain the 86 is a fine model let down by it’s panto but later ones are fitted with a better type ,the original hornby mk 3 coaches are under scale length but I like them bec the go around 1st radius curves and do foul unlike my scale length Mk3s,at one time you could get the short ones for next to nothing and people would cut them up for conversions into emus etc ,now as they are getting more sort after if eBay and hattons Pre owned dept is anything to go by ,once again my friend great posting be safe to you all and anyone reading this ,take care ,Mark 😊😊👍🏻❄️❄️
Good morning Mark, its a loverly model that 86, I think I shall keep my eye out for a few of the other variation plus the odd coach to keep them company.
Thanks again.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Interesting viewing as always. That modern pantograph is a big problem, I hope you find a way to make it work better. The Tri-ang one may not look as accurate but at least it works. The Class 86 is a very smart looking model and now that you have the coaches, it looks even better. Great livery. The progress on the layout is good to see, great fun, as you say. 👍😊
Good morning Pauline, glad you liane the look of the new coaches.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
Hi Oscar another great video, them mk3 coaches have the swallow style intercity logo for 89 on the smaller intercity logo is for the 86 to 89 executive livery, the buffers were an option to fit for the intercity 125(class 43) trains . Them power clips are not the best I agree. The layout is coming on fantastically part of the fun is ironing out the teathing problems.
Brian
Hi, Brian thanks again for watching and the information glad you enjoyed the video.
take care.
Oscar
Your right Oscar, TOY TRAINS.
I clearly remember in the mid 60s wanting the new E3001 loco, the picture in he catalogue was wonderful but the loco was ok and the two pantographs were AWFUL,
Having said that the nostalgic toys trains were great fun and when your 12 a boy you can tolerate the imperfections .
Such a long time ago now
Good morning Steven, these things very often look better in the catalogue! than they really are.
Thanks again.
Oscar
I agree with Steve Oscar in 1970 as a little boy seeing the what was now known as a class 81 wanting one took until 2018 I found one on eBay £120 in mint boxed condition ,that’s a big mark up on original price but glad I got it ,don’t tell the Mrs how much I paid 👍🏻😂😂👍🏻
Hello Oscar and thank you for this new episode on the advancement of your network.
Too bad the new panto of the Class 86 poses a problem. This must be because the bow (what you call skate), tends to rise on the side opposite to its binding. The ideal would be for it to be articulated in its center, like the real ones or, in model making, at Sommerfeld, for example. But here, we are no longer in the original model ....
Have a good week, and good luck for the future (especially for the wiring!).
Sincerely, from France.
Philippe
Hi, Philippe thanks again. you are right the skate/bow should not be moving like it is. Hornby seem to have designed it as a push in part that is completely free to move rather than an articulated connection which would hold it inline with the rest of the assemble.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Happy memories of brother and I running the hornby model C1980 onwards. First thing I did was remove the top part of the Hornby pantograph and build the top section from fairly thick wire (1.5 sq mm I think) soldering by hand and making a Much more passable representation of the AMBR pantograph. I compromised by having just a single top piece rather than the two piece assembly of the real thing.
Good morning Rowan, sounds like a great modification I bet you had great fun with it.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
progress moving forward... The class 86s look great... i have an Anglian livered one too... her panto is messed too..🤠🚂🚃Neil
Hi great to hear you have the Anglian too.
Thanks again.
Oscar
Thank you for this mornings viewing.
The troublesome pantograph does look to be a poor design - I imagine many people have spent hours trying to get them to work correctly, and all the components are so tiny!
Nice to see your layout is still progressing well.
All the best to you. Gord :-)
Good morning Gord, defiantly a bit of a fiddle but all good fun.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
Great video Oscar, the older version I noticed only has the part to the skate, maybe the double skate is part of your problem, thanks again, keep safe and well
Hi Jed I think your right the design of the skate is a big part of the problem.
Thanks again.
Oscar
I have seen some modelers shorten the travel of the pantograph so that it does not come into contact with the wire at all but it looks the part and then run the loco from the rail power. I would think that even with your expanded layout, the likelihood of you running two independently controlled trains on the same track is remote. Otherwise, the loco runs well and looks great with the new coaches. I solder my power wires to the fishplates providing that they are a tight fit.
Regards, David.
Good morning David, thanks again for watching and the information, glad you like the look of the new coaches.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Another nice look at your progress, it certainly looks like the overhead system can be a bit troublesome at times. Out of interest do you have any special cleaning requirement for the overhead wires, I take it they must oxidise and get grubby over time just like the track rails. It's not a system I have ever thought of installing but I still find it interesting.
Good morning Rob, running along it by hand with a cotton buds damp with a track cleaning fluid of choice does the job. It gets quite dirty around the joints and the older wires are easier to clean than later ones I'm not sure when the switch was made in materiel used the earlier type must nickel-based I think. Also, it can always be dropped off the clips if needed.
Thanks again.
Oscar
Hi Oscar, love the layout, it's coming along really well. How about fixing the Class 86 Pantograph just below the lowest point of the overhead wire? You could then power the loco from the track but it would still look as if it was powered from the O/H wire. Take care, Dave.
Good morning Dave, glad you like the layout thanks for watching.
Oscar
Re: The pantograph. The spring seems strong enough in general. Yet with a missing arm, the pantograph is twisting. This twist adds a very large frictional load at each of the joints. (1) Add a touch of dry lubrication, like graphite powder to all of the rotating interfaces. (2) Get that arm back in to reduce the twisting moment.
The cantenary clip should be modestly touched with a fine file, creating ramps at the clips instead of hard edges.
Good morning thanks for watching and the information.
Stay safe.
Oscar
It’s a shame that Hornby couldn’t make as good a pantograph as Triang 20 years previously ! I always thought the Hornby Mk3s were a missed opportunity . They are too short , although you would need to watch you don’t get the later full length ones because I think the extra length would foul you catenary /curved platforms . Back in the 70s I opted for Joueff ones because they were the correct length . Where do you get your wire from if you don’t mind me asking and is it a doe if if grade . These suitcase connectors look good . My wiring is overdue an upgrade !
Good morning Russell I don't think I will be going full length Mk3s as you say there would be a few problems with eta curves, posts and platform edges. I'm pretty sure everything I have will now run through the station! All my cabling came from ESR Electronic Components Ltd www.esr.co.uk/electronics/products/frame_cable.htm they have a great site they are local to me so I usually pick up directly from them, although the Scotch Lock Wire Connectors came from that well know auction site at 4.99 per 100 from the UK with free post. They have worked very well.
Thanks again for watching.
Oscar
@@oscarpaisley thanks for taking the time to reply Oscar .I’ll check out that website . Many thanks for link . I hate wiring but it needs a revamp!
The layout keeps looking better and better each week 👍🏻 is it possible to swap the pantograph with one from an old triang unit?
Good morning Alan thanks again for watching glad you enjoying the progress on the railway. Spare Tri-ang pantographs are so had to find, but its a possibility.
Oscar
@@oscarpaisley You might find another Pantograph from a Class 90 or 91, they are much more springy and the base fittings, I believe, are the same
very well done Oscar talk about fiddly...well done
Thanks again Paul, defiantly a bit fiddly!
Take care.
Oscar
Hey up
Just had a though
What if you get another class 86 by hornby but get a pantograph from a triang electric bo bo and fit the triang on onto the hornby boddy and chassis so it's a class 86 with a triang pantograph...
Hi thats a great idea, but those older pantographs are very difficult to get hold of as well as been hugely expensive. It may not be practical.
Thank again for watching.
Oscar
I'm honestly so intrigued by how you got that class 86 to get power from the overhead wires
It has has a switch on the roof next to the pantograph which allows you to run using power from the track or overhead wires
Hi as Erik Morrison has indicated in the attached comment the model was original designed to take advantage of a over head power supply system by means of a selector switch on the roof, although I don't think many ever used the it.
Thanks for watching.
Os ar
@@erikmorrison8714 thank you
@@111greatbear3 you welcome mate
Rather than soldering onto the rails which can wreck the sleeper web, have you tried either soldering onto the underside of the fishplates or else buying the Peco pre soldered fishplates?
Hi Johanna thanks for the information and taking the time to watch.
Stay safe.
Oscar
The upper and lower pantograph arm's on the 81 seem to sit at the same angle, the 86 lower arm seems too vertical and the upper arm seems too horizontal, could this be part of the problem, although I think the collecting strip is the main issue as other's have mentioned. Rather than replace with a 81 pantograph would it be possible to replace just the collecting strip with one from a 81 and affix it in the same manner as on the 81.
Good morning thanks again for watching, there were defiantly some interesting decisions made when Hornby designed this pantograph.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
I'd be tempted to replace the duff pantograph with one of the old pattern ones... Okay, the model wouldn't be "correct" but it would work!
I think you may be right, sadly the older one's are now very hard to get hold of. If they were readily available I would be tempted to have ago.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
The catenary system is certainly prototypical for this type of locomotive. On the main line, it would only run on catenary power.
Hello Oscar, I asked a while back about what track system to use for triang trains and you suggested system 4. I now have a problem. I have a fairly large layout using standard peco track and points. (I believe it is similar to system 6) I sold much of you rolling stock some 2 years ago. Now I want to use it again, but would like to run a mixture of triang and early hornby. Having looked at the cost of replacing with system 4, I simply afford it. Would triang run on the peco track? Would the courser knurled wheels run on it? Thanks for your time. PS your fault you revived my interest in the triang trains lol
Good morning Brian thanks again for watching, sorry to have started you off on any bad habits, Quit a lot of the layer Tri-ang Hornby item will run especially 1970 onwards. I think they produced knurled wheels for a short period of time with shallower flanges during the change over from Super 4 to the then-new System 6 but then stopped making knurled for the models in the range that still used them and gave them smooth ones with shallow flanges. I'm sure there is someone online making reproductions of these as they show up on that well-known auction site from time to time. I think with models pre 1969 it can be a bit hit and miss as to whether or not the wheels are happy on the newer track style, sometimes its the back to back which is the problem. A fixed measurement taken straight from a contemporary model is not always the answer as have to consider not just the depth but the thickness/profile of the flange. Sometimes some experimentation with this can get good results provided the overall depth is not so great.
Hope this was of some help.
Stay safe.
Oscar
@@oscarpaisley Thanks for that and taking the time to answer.
Layout coming together. It would be nice to see a brake van of some description with the Mk3’s and electric loco. A full brake would be ok although not sure if Hornby ever produced one in InterCity”raspberry ripple” livery. Mind you as you say as you say it runs ok without and a major operating incident is unlikely to result! It’s nice to see “electric” locos running off the overheads-pity the class 86 pan. is not better designed. It’s interesting that the Mk3 coaches are correct for loco hauled coaches ( the loco hauled Mk3’s have buffers the HST version didn’t) but numbers in the 42 range were HST vehicles on the prototype. Oh dear I am becoming a bit pedantic, sorry! Good work.
Good morning thanks again for watching and taking then time to comment with this great information is very much appreciated.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Good video keep posting videos up
Good morning thanks again for watching and your continued support. Its very much appreciated.
Oscar
Are you going to do some nice scenery on the layout?
Hi oscar another great video the pantograph on hornby class 86/2 electric locomotives are not good I replaced the hornby pantographs with lima ones on my hornby class86 locomotives but there are other makes out there like pole or sommerfeldt pantographs stay safe and well mate goodbye for now clive in N.lreland
Good morning Clive thanks again for the information and taking the time to watch. I shall keep a lookout at other options on the pantographs.
Take care.
Oscar
Interesting that you ditched nearly all your power connecting clips for solder; is that because the clips are simply old? or is it endemic to the product. Nice update again Oscar. Do you plan to do much more scenery and buildings or will it be more minimalist than your last layout. regards Paul
Good morning Paul, they were just not that reliable the ones I have at present. The pins kept dropping out and the contact with the underside of the rail was very poor. Not the like ones used on Super 4 with there big sprung contact surface and positive fit, maybe better quality examples would perform differently. Solder was the more reliable option for me at this point. On the last layout, I just had the one soldered feed which was on the elevated section where it was not possible to fit a Super 4 power clip due to the sidewalls, all the rest on that layout were the standard one for that track system. I think the layout will remain quit minimal on the scenery front.
Thanks again for watching.
Oscar
Are your trains going to use catenary power or are they getting power from the track?
The pantograph still looks like it sits too high off the roof when down
Hi Oscar, Been thinking a bit more on the issue with the 86. I've always wondered about using very long spans of wire to try and keep those connection points on the Catenary to a minimum? Not sure of what gauge the Tri-ang wire is? Never even thought to measure it really. But they sell roles of Nickel Silver craft or Jewelry wire in various gauges, www.amazon.com/Nickel-Silver-Wire-SOFT-Spool/dp/B01GPWWLRQ From an electrical stand point, it would make sense to keep connections to a minimum. Although Nickel Silver wire might not be strong enough to stay kink free. Maybe electric fence steel wire would be a better choice? www.homedepot.com/p/OOK-100-ft-75-lb-14-Gauge-Galvanized-Steel-Wire-50142/100200924?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D25H-G-D25H-25_4_BUILDERS_HARDWARE-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BuildersHardware_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D25H-G-D25H-25_4_BUILDERS_HARDWARE-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BuildersHardware_LIA-71700000044822926-58700004636006010-92700052754919315&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6t6ABhDMARIsAONIYyy92UgXDLI4W-Rqf59V6DYPEgiHKtg4kU7Q-IyuBPabPsJYjMqV_d0aAuFwEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Lisa
Good morning Lisa, thanks for the information. I think the older wires supplied by Tri-ang had some element of nickel in them, they appear very warm in colour and are non-magnetic. Compared to the later wires which appear to be steel and are much harder to shape than the earlier wires. Conductivity between the wire never seems to be that much of an issue as the connectors are a very good fit, unlike rail joiners which distort but the later wire need cleaning more often. Have had used what the model suppliers call piano wire in 1-yard lengths as an experiment on the last layout and that was even tougher to shape. I've not used any of this solar on this layout
Stay safe.
Oscar
Hi there, how do you gain your locomotives? Do you use eBay or do you have a specific secondhand site? Thanks!
Good morning, yes I do use the auction site you mention and the I regally buy from the three dealers listed below.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
Elaine’s Trains
elaines-trains.co.uk
Dave Angell
daveangell.co.uk
Triangman
tri-angman.co.uk
The Early HORNBY MK 3 Coaches are not to scale they are only 65 ft long a Mk 3a is 75 ft long and they have no buffers as the for HST set a little bit different from the locomotive hulled Coaches .i sent a letter to them about this way back in the 1970s they ignored my letter .
Hi Martin thanks for watching and the information it's very much appreciated.
Take care.
Oscar
She’s certainly a pretty model, but she doesn’t like running with the pantograph up!! And if the pantograph was broken in some way, it might not work properly!!
Oscar, it strikes me that your masts are too close together, especially the lattice double track masts, so you should be able to get further coverage and on the sections of straight track, even the single masts could probably be further apart giving you further coverage
Good morning I've found in practice that masts need to be about 7in (18cm) apart on a curve or straight to ensure the pantograph has good contact with the wire, going beyond creates significant problems. This would appear to even more important with the later white masts due to there very poor construction especially when combined with equally poor design of the pantographs used on these models in the 80s. I've included an extract below from the instructions that originally came with the toys in the 80s.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
(In order to obtain sufficient rigidity and positional accuracy of
the centenary wires, it is desirable for the track and mast bases to
be fixed to a baseboard.
Ideally, there should be a mast approximately every 6"-8" (16-
20cm) where the centenary wire is suspended above curved
track and approximately every 9" (24cm) above the straight track.
There are configurations of track and points where the gaps
between masts may have to be extended beyond these figures.)
@@oscarpaisley yes for sure on the curves that's more of an issue ... but more spacing of the lattice double track masts will not only improve the realism but also help give you further coverage- I have seen layouts adapt these for three, four and more parallel tracks as per in reality over the early WCML ole project (South of Crewe)
Hi Oscar, I'm glad you found a way to fix that 86. I do admit, I hate that skate on the 86. The tabs that fix it to the arm should ideally be on the middle part of the skate so it sits more flush against the wire. Even if it isn't prototypical looking, it would greatly improve the operational aspect of the model. Would a Triang pantograph fit on the 86? I'd rather have something functional even if it doesn't look totally correct for the model. That Hornby design sure is nuts!
I've been looking for GE style pantograph's for my GG-1 locomotives by Rivarossi, The closest thing I've been able to find are pantograph parts by Jouef. I wonder if Jouef makes anything that would work for the Class 86? Lisa
Hi Lisa, thanks again for watching Hornby defiantly made a interesting pantograph for this particular model, even when they changed the pantograph on later models it still had the same issues with the poorly thought out skate. I shall perhaps keep a look out at other alternatives.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Good vid Oscar watched plenty of them... Question: had my first experience of model trains as an 11yr old My Dad bought me a 2nd hand Train set Princess Elizabeth and the Red and Yellow coaches and a Mail coach that had the openings at the side, why was there never a flanged wheel in the middle wheel on the engine? seemed to spoil the REAL affect.
Good morning Tony, great to hear you are enjoying the videos. I think the centre wheels on many Tri-ang models were flangeless to enable it to deal with the tight curves that are found within the track system.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
You’re obviously running your trains on DC rather than DCC. I’m running on DCC with sound, and mostly steam.
Good morning yes it DC and the overhead supply is live so those models that were original designed to collect from the catenary will do so. Great to hear you are enjoying DCC I think the sound elements that are now being developed are excellent strand to the hobby.
Thanks for watching a taking the time comment its hugely appreciated.
Stay safe.
Oscar