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Missing the BOAT on VR Sims?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2023
- Are you missing THE BOAT on VR Flight simulation? This video explains how TH-cam does a terrible job of portraying VR flight simulation and how it may be causing many to pass on it.
63 years old dude here. My first headset, Rift CV1. was my first. Got hooked the minute i put it on. Since then, did not play any game that is not VR. Feeling of being there is just overwhelming. Perfect escape from today's fuc..d up world.
I'm 67, What do you do if you need Reading Glasses ?????
If you can still see clearly to about 6 feet (2 meters) away, you won't need glasses for VR. If your glasses are not huge, they will fit inside most VR headsets. There are also third party VR prescription lenses available. @@yair1956
@@yair1956you can get specialized prescription cutouts for your vr headset.
Exactly the oposite here, I can't stand VR on my face for more than 2 minutes both in sim racing as flight sm. I only use VR for porn (best application).
You're such a bad influence on my credit card 😄
I am trying to take as many down along with me as I can😁
😅
Uh oh. I'm reading your comment at the start of this vid and getting a bad feeling.
@@rbarlowmy favorite unconventional VR setup is using a spacemouse for elite dangerous and other space Sims
Vr has become affordable recently. The Pico4 is only 350euro. More you won't need
Russ, I agree with your assessment regarding VR. I did not use it for a while, but when I did, the experience was absolutely breathtaking for someone like me who is not a real-world pilot like you. I have not turned back. I only fly in VR.
yes sir I am a true believer too
Same I only fly in vr as well. 2d games hard to play
That’s why the best way to grow VR and make it cheaper is to get more ppl to try it. It sells itself.
VR is just a great fit for flight sims. Being able to instantly and naturally switch between viewing the scenery, and going back to looking at the controls. Feeling like you're superman flying when switching to third person view. I love it.
Thanks for your comments. I still use the G2 after initially using the Rift. I fly all my aircraft from steam gauges to glass cockpits with no visual issues. Very happy. In essence, with flat screen flying, you are sitting at your desk or whatever environment you are in - like an observer watching the process, where in VR you are IN the plane you are flying.
You pin point the major difference between 2D and 3D as Russ Barlow also said in his video. The feeling to be really IN the cockpit is so strong that it still happens to me sometimes to raise my hand to reach a switch when I'm too focus on what I'm doing. And then I said to me Oh yes I forgot to use the mouse. :D
@@laurentsamson8927 yes I once tried to set my controller on the seat next to me.... as it crashed to the real world floor. I femember my first experience at FS WEEKEND in The Netherlands. I flew a circuit, landed and took off the headset and was shocked to see I wasn't at KBOS, Amazing.
🤣@@rbarlow
I started with DCS and head-tracking two years ago, not sure if VR was for me. Then finally I thought, “let’s try it”, and got G2. The first time I switched to VR in the F-5, the only thing I could think, after having been a long time aviation fan, was “I am finally there!” Barely held the plane from crashing into a mountain with my jaw on the floor. Then got hooked on MSFS, because shooting and bombing is not really my thing anymore - you lose that as you get older I noticed - and now it’s just one of the things I really look forward to, my flights in VR.
DCS are Putin stooges, so theres that...
Great video. Right on the money about VR flying! 3 things to add. 1) My first VR experience I was so amazed at what I saw. That was on a Quest 2. I remember reaching for the joystick that I saw not my real one. I simply stared at the cockpit and said WOW! 2) A buddy of mine was real sick after trying his Quest 2 in flying. However slowly after a few flights it stopped bothering him. Now he flies exclusively in VR. 3) The expense of VR flying. To drive essentially 4 K per eye at 30 - 40 FPS per eye require a good fast computer and a good Video card. Most people think that because they get 100 FPS on their current setup will get that in VR. I am currently saving up for a at least a 4080 video card and the PIMAX crystal.
My last comment is if you love flying sims then once you try a high resolution VR fight, you an never go back.
Ha nice. I've just bought a quest 2 after someone gave me a go on their OG quest. Such a fun thing, like a 3d Nintendo Wii only better. I'm going to grab a second hand 3080 now that tech prices are coming down. It felt to me like VR surged then stalled due to the cost of entry, and then covid hit. Now it seems like VR is much more realistic to get into.
Just to add, if you're playing at 30-40fps in VR, you're extraordinarily likely to get unfathomably sick unless you have absolute immunity to VR sickness. 72hz is really the lowest I can go before it gets uncomfortable and "swimmy" feeling. 90fps is better, 120fps is better still.
@@JimmyNuisance There is a difference between Hz - refresh rate - and fps - frames per second. The refresh rate is essential for stability of vision. You can have poor fps, but due to a high refresh rate, not get sick, just slightly annoyed. A low refresh rate will make you sick as a dog, no matter what your fps is. This is because your brain will constantly suffer from this stroboscope effect, even though maybe, to you, the image just looks a bit jittery. If you can match fps to refresh rate, and it is high - 90 or more - that’s ideal. If not, you can use an interpolation effect - like Motion Reprojection - to fill in the missing frames. Less ideal, but often more than enough for your brain because it will mainly work when moving your head, which is a low resolution phase for a human in real life as well.
I don’t know why you don’t have 100K subscribers by now. Been following you for years with x-plane and now more MSFS. You’re content is also high quality and well researched.
Yes, knowing Russ is a big Insider benefit. Hope, more userw will meet him here..
I appreciate your kind words, but as a retiree, I’m not too interested in working to build my subscriber base other than organically. It all started when I spent a weekend trying to figure something out and decided that I better share it so other people wouldn’t waste their weekends. I’ve seen a lot of TH-cam content creators burn themselves out trying to get views and subscribers. Comments like yours though encourage me to continue to produce what I hope are useful and Informative videos
Mainly audio quality and a strong hook. The content is good, but it’s a slow pace.
Within the first 60 seconds of the video the viewer needs to know why they NEED to stay for 16 more minutes. They need to know what they’ll learn and be excited about it.
One method would be short jump cuts showcasing each reason, thibk byllet points. An aircraft cruising with barely any head movement isn’t interesting. Showcase the advantages of VR, like leaning into the panel to read something, looking over your shoulder, or spotting an enemy in a dogfight.
@@rbarlowHey I respect that! YOUR viewers are out there, and if you change yourself too much you might get viewers but they’re not YOUR viewers.
All your points are good. This is only a hobby but I do like to make my content as useful as possible and engaging the viewer is the only way to get the message across. Thanks.
You have nailed it Russ. The first time I used a sim was on the apple 2e in 1981. I recently grabbed a HPg2 for a very good price and it’s been my biggest wow moment since 81! The immersion and 3d are the biggies for me. As a real world pilot I find circuits and landing on the flat screens frustrating but in VR it is a joy. Being able to judge your position, glide path and height to flare makes the experience chalk and cheese. Once we sort out the inputs and a virtual iPad for the IR stuff I may never leave the VR world.
I was flying along, in VR, I can’t remember what plane, but it was in a skirmish in WarThunder and I was beginning to check out and zone on the droning of the engines.
All of a sudden I heard the impact of bullets on the fuselage of my plane and I was startled out of my stupor. I looked up towards the sky, the sun, and barely caught glimpse of something… a diving plane, the silhouette of a Zero before my screen went black.
I had died.
I sat back in my chair and closed my eyes in my VR headset, realizing that likely, someone in history, had died, just like that.
I’ve been gaming for years. Since the 80s, and I’ve never, ever… had a feeling hit me as hard as I did after that death. To be that connected to a game, to make that mistake, and to be startled awake, panic… and then die seconds later with the sheer terror of the knowing that I have likely no chance of surviving this dive attack that I was caught off guard against.
THIS, is VR.
I will never forget that. That is why you buy a VR headset. Get a good graphics card, find your game. Enjoy.
For me it was a total game changer. Bought my first VR headset same day G2 was released and haven't flown a single hour in 2D after that. Over 1000 hours DCS now, VR is the real deal.
Not until they fix the puking issue. It's a TINY niche market, and always will be if they don't fix it. I know the VR 'cult' will jump all over this, but it's just facts. Throwing up for huge cost and lower resolution...not ready for mass adoption yet.
Many thanks Russ. My dad has been into flight sims for a long time but has only ever used tablets which can’t be very immersive. I’m giving serious thought to setting him up with a vr sim. I’m a vr gamer and so obviously biased but I think he might like it. Serious food for thought here. Cheers mate :-)
Great Son!
Finally a nice informative video describing the positives of VR. Liked.
Anyway, only thing that I disagree to a degree, is that VR controllers are JOY to use in X-Plane 11/12. Very precise, intuitive and way better option than mouse. But also, aircraft dev must implement a solid VR support. Some planes have bad VR support, meaning it will be difficult and cumbersome to use knobs, switches etc. For example, Toliss A319 with VR controllers will make you feel like you are in the real Airbus cockpit, reaching for various switches by the muscle memory, really immersive. You will flip switches and stuff only by pressing trigger button ONCE, no need for flicking movements, etc. There is no mouse or track ball that can replace that.
Agree 100% with you. Even with my humble pc and my old head set, once I tried VR I was hooked for life! There is no way back for me.
very well explained!
I've given up on explaining to people why I prefer simming in VR over "pancake" 2D screens. All I do now is offer them a live experience with my gear and let them judge for themselves. Most of them said more or less the same afterwards: "I did not expect THAT! It's like actually being in that plane, omg". Few others experienced motion sickness and were not very convinced yet astonished about the clarity of view and sense of depth they experienced (I own a G2 and plan on getting the Crystal).
Almost everyone else who already was into flight or racing simulation before that soon became owners of a VR headset :)
It boggles my mind that so many people with the intelligence to buy nevermind build a Sim setup and configure it and then learn to Fly the aircraft.........don't seem to have the imagination or ability to conceptualise what VR brings to the table such that it takes experiencing it for the penny to drop. I was still blown away and giddy with excitement when I first tried VR with my old Rift CV1 back in 2016......but I already conceptually knew what to expect and what it was going to deliver before I ever tried VR.
Russ, wanted to thank you for this wonderful video.
Ever since Rift CV1 i knew that one day i'd be able to afford my own VR sim setup with great resolution & all. (so far playing VTOL VR on quest 2 from time to time, that has virtual HOTAS there & everything controlled with controllers)
And its a pleasure to see how people enjoy it and VR sims getting more and more recognized among fans and professionally.
If you're not using VR in flight, race and space sims, you are indeed missing the boat! What's holding back VR is the lack of powerful enough hardware AND the lack of software optimization for VR use (I'm looking at you MSFS, DCS, XP12 and others). VR is the way forward! Excellent video, Russ!
VR puts you into the world and allows you to act on it and it on you. Flat screeners just observe the world acting on their character and their character acting on the world. Immersion and presence are the elements that make VR a singularly unique gaming/simming experience.
Well said! You have to experience it to believe it. I had the original SDK oculus in 2013 and set it up at a party. The riftcoaster demo was playing constantly and you knew every time someone had a go because you'd heard laughing and gasping.
I enjoy flying in VR. The only hitches I have are: 1) Taking notes from ATC - I fly the vast majority of time on the VATSIM network. and 2) I can see my heartbeat as a "jiggle" and it's disctracting.
Reverb G2 user here also. I'll put this gently, no way I would fly on a flat screen again, it's like piloting with one eye closed. Same with Google Earth. Another big plus I've found with VR glasses is the natural head tracking, not in the same class with the mouse control, not even close. Thanks for the video.
I loved your video, thank you for taking the time to produce it.
I’ve been flight simming for a long time and it is a passion of mine • It scratches the never dying bug I have for aviation.
I am currently upgrading from a 208ti system to a whole new set up with a Ryzen 7800 3D, 64 Gigs of DDR5 Ram and a glorious 4090 GPU, did this specifically to power a PIMAX CRYSTAL that should arrive next week.
I’ve been using the HP Reverb G2 with the 2080ti system for about 3 years and it has been amazing, but I cannot help but to drool over what these new headsets can do nowadays.
I wholeheartedly agree with your video, TH-cam videos just cannot do justice to what we VR simmers get to experience when we are fully immersed.
If you are reading this post and have watched this video, trust me, jump in because otherwise you’re missing out on a life altering experience.
Hi Russ, this was Exellent work, as always. Many thx. I started Flightsimming in the late eighties with BAO FS and my first VR flight was in 1991 (Experimental Military Simulator). My budget is limited and so my Equipment is Honeycomb A+B, the HP Reverb G2, Proflight Pedals and a Stream Deck XL. I enjoy flying VR, but also using Track IR5 and 3 Monitors arranged at 60 Degrees left and right. VR is much more Immersive, but Track IR plus 3 Monitors give better ability to access controls and better Graphics resolution. So I'm enjoyin both. I agree that VR will be the future for Flight simming. The future will show, what will get the best acceptance. Actual the Limit is more the Budget and less the Technical ability. But quality (special at VR) is something, where I hope on some additional future improvements. Impressive since FS 2020, but theres potential to get more immersion from improving the quality, as you showed exellent at your Video. All the best from me and Allways happy Landings.
As a newbie to the whole VR subject I found this video so very informative. Many thanks for your time and detailed analysis !
Hope you can give VR flying a try abd be converted
Irl private pilot here. Fly mostly PA-28’s and occasionaly C172’s. I’d like to add that VR flight, in my opinion, is so close to irl flight with the added benifit of being able to fly anywhere in world, places you never would be able to fly to irl. Once you add in a 6dof motion sim, the VR experience is almost a perfect substitute for the real thing.
Yes if recreation flying is your goal you can’t beat VR in MSFS. Additional benefits you didn’t mention are less cost, zero carbon emissions, no safety risks, and the ability to fly airplanes you otherwise never could. It also provides a way to scratch the flying itch for those folks who have medical issues that keep them out of s real cockpit. I agree simulation has evolved to an ALMOST perfect substitution for irl flying and is creeping closer with each technological improvement. Good comment!
Dunno, but I don't have issues reading even G1000 stuff with Quest 2 at max resolution via link cable. Can't imagine how sharp the picture is with Aero/Crystal.
Just saw this! Great video and pray your channel continues to grow Russ, thanks for the info!
Thank you so much for this informative video! I'm just gathering info how to get into flight sims, and this video is amazing and very helpful. It's a brilliant and somewhat unique round up of things to consider and available solutions. VR suits me personally not only because of immersion but mostly due to space constraints. My other major concern was control inputs. Your videos provides solution as well, thank you!
Exactly, my friend. Multi-screen and physical instruments are no longer necessary equipment. At present, there is no good hand tracking tool to directly interact with the instrument, so we have to rely on a trackball or a VR controller that is always shaking. But they are good enough.
In addition, I need to add that among all driving simulations, flight simulation is the least trigger for motion sickness. Racing games will make you get carsick intermittently when you are in a bad state, no matter how much you adapt to VR. The same feeling appears in the final stage of your landing. If you brake hard, you will always feel inevitable discomfort. People's eyes will have a better depth perception of close objects, and when the ground is hundreds of feet away, your brain can quickly adjust itself. When the ground and buildings several meters away are at a rapidly changing speed, your self-protection instinct can't be suppressed.
Of course, I personally prefer WWI and WWII air combat in il-2 GB. The depth perception brought by VR HMD allows you to shoot intuitively in the machine gun fighting at a distance of 100 to 1000 feet, which is very interesting.
Excellent video Russ, I was thinking about going with 3 55" inch screens, but you got me back on track with VR. Keep this great info coming!
Great video. I've been a VR convert since the PSVR days. Exciting times as we are now approaching human eye resolutions and are getting the GPU power and AI tech to match (via upscalers). From here on in after using the Pimax Crystal and seeing it's resolution, I'm looking forward to even bigger FOV and more comfort. We just need more Sims to support eye tracked foveated rendering in future, to get that frame rate up. The real game changer will be once XR selective pass through of Sim peripherals and other room objects readily available (like the Varjo XR3 is capable of) but at consumer friendly prices.
Brillint and professional analysis as always. Thank you, it’s always a pleasure to learn from you!
Thanks for the kind words.
I totally agree with everything you said. I have two sims: I have a full sized Boeing 737-800 cockpit (about £60,000 worth) with motorised throttles, full MIP and overhead and a 120 degree cobra screen driven by a 4K laser projector.
I also have a 6 axis motion seat with a Varjo Aero headset. I run a very powerful PC for that with a 4090 gfx card.
I can tell you right now that as much as I love being able to operate all of the buttons and switches on the big 737, it does not begin to compare with my VR system for immersion. I spend much more time in VR than I do on the 737 rig.
I have got to the point where I struggle to fly in 2D….
I have been flight simming since the very first version of flight simulator. I just could not give up VR.
A great summary Russ. I can remember the first time I sat in a cockpit in VR, and I'm sure everyone can! It felt smaller, the panel was within reach, depth perception was amazing and it is fair to say, the whole experience was mind blowing.
I had flown sim helicopters for years but only after doing it in VR with its enhanced spatial awareness, did landings become perfect!
If more people could try VR properly at a local store and could share this wonder, maybe it would become more mainstream. Prices would drop, availability would increase and better technologies would come to light far quicker.
The future is exciting.
All great points. I’ve wondered if those of us using VR could host some events where we could share the experience with the uninitiated. Unfortunately, except for gaming and especially flight simulations, VR hasn’t lived up to the hype for main stream applications, and business and manufacturing so far. I think that may change with the advent of mixed reality where it can be an aid to people who are doing a real world task.
Great video Russ. I've been simming for a very long time and have yet to go VR. What holds me back is once you slip on that headset, you are IN. There is no hybrid. That probably sounds silly to most VRers but I like to get up and walk around, have websites up on my lap top, spread charts around on my desk, etc. I will lose ALL of that going to VR so I have resisted to this point. I certainly see my missing the boat on this though.
There are ways to bring other windows into VR and mixed reality May solve your problems in the future. I say don’t focus on what you might lose until you fully understand what you might gain. It might be worth it… but my point is that until you experience it you will never know.
Good point Russ
This vid should be the opener in every playlist about VR. Great explanation on a rather difficult subject. I have no problems looking at shaky vr recording because I use vr myself and know what to expect. Most of my buddys do not however. I will share this for sure. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I just started VR with MSFS 2020 and there is no comparison. I am truly enjoying this even at 73 !
Thanks for your comments.
Totally agree... I've been doing VR since about '18 but I don't have a lot of free time and my primary game type is FPS. Once I played flying sim in VR though I knew that was it, I would never go back to a monitor.Luckily I don't have motion sickness issues and don't have issues, but I really feel sitting down simulations like flying or driving are really the bread and butter for VR - it just fits well and should be pretty comfortable for just about everyone. I still have an original Oculus Rift, and am getting along with it fine though I wish I had money for a new headset. Without the free time I just can't justify the cost. While FPS is my main preferred game type, I do like some flight sims and driving sims. I've mainly been using VTOL VR because completely virtualized controls just worked well for me since I don't have a decent HOTAS. Anyhow your explanation is spot on, VR really is underrated especially for flying sims.
I totally with every aspect of your assessment. VR flying is so amazing!!!
I was a day 1 HTC Vive preorder. I haven't purchased a headset since because everything seemed to be minor increments that didn't warrant the price. But the Varjo Aero and pimax crystal are really tempting, especially with the Aero's recent price drop. If I hadn't just started a home theater build I would buy an Aero today.
Thanks for the reviews and keep up the good content.
What kind of projector are you using for your theater?
I am 65 years old so I know exactly what you mean when it comes with keeping up with technology. My am an XP11/12 simmer and my grandson recently brought me his older Quest 2 VR system to try out. I have yet to hook it up to see if and how it would work? I will give it a try! I agree! I believe VR will be the future of flight simulation!
You’ll enjoy it
Thank you Russ, for your detailed report on the state of VR headsets, as always most informative. I have an older Rift 2, and have been waiting to update. I agree with you , It's a life changing experience to fly in VR. I do like the trackball.
Cheers.
PiMax Crystal is still a bit pricey, but it is a very nice headset. I think the upcoming quest three may offer something worthwhile also as it has a color pass through camera. Unfortunately, it’s resolution is slightly less than the HP reverb G2.
I'd say VR is being in the stadium and being able to move anywhere in the stadium as opposed to sitting in 1 seat. I got a new G2 for $300 and then went big on 4090 and wow! 5800X3D and 4090 with G2 is an amazing combination. I can't wait for MSFS 2024 multithreaded performance boost.
I would have to say that overall the G2 offers the best value per dollar of any headset I’ve ever used.
@@rbarlow also, if it wasn't for VR, I would never have built a 3D printed Spitfire cockpit from Authentikit. The immersion of VR with good controls is the ticket.
I built a multi-monitor setup with touch screens and overhead screens for panels. I also have an Oculus Rift S. I enjoyed having the more tactile feel of using the multi-screens, but the immersion in VR was second to none. Plus, MSFS with multi-screens really impacted my FPS. Using VR I was able to get solid frames with a number of tweaks so works better than multi-screens. I’ve been strictly VR as of late.
What res were your three screens? Ive been considering buying 3-1080P 40''ish TVs for super cheap just for simming multimon. 3-1080p are still far below what must be generated in VR. VR is basically the resolution you use on both axis X2. My G2 is running 3300x3300 ish (11m pixels x2) where as 3-1080p is 6m pixels. Far less than VR.
Just got recommended this video and you are right about VR. Since i picked up my Reverb G2, it changed sim flying for me. Just recently dropped a stupid amount, to me anyway, on a new PC and it made an even bigger difference. The only thing I wish is that i could record better video. When i screen record, i dont have squares on the screen, it seems to be shaped like the eye field (i think that is the right term).
Gee thanks, now I have to buy a new computer and a VR headset. In all seriousness, thank you for your expertise. Don't take this the wrong way, but as I watch this, I realize that we are seeing the internet mature into something even more wonderful. As "more experienced" generations embrace technology and use it as you have, it brings an entirely new level of accessibility to the wisdom and perspective gained from a lifetime of experience. Thank you for the content, you have gained another subscriber.
Many thanks! Your videos got me into VR about two years ago, haven’t looked back. Have Aero & Crystal but my go to is Aero for my group Multiplayer Group. Thanks for your excellent Videos.
Russ, I always enjoy your videos. Your thoughts on vr are something I feel similar about. I'm probably going to miss the boat lol. I'm almost 42 now and it's just part of technology changing to me that I think I'll end up missing cuz I'm too old to care to keep up anymore. But maybe I should reconsider.
Anyway, as always great content. Glad I found your channel
at 42 you are still a Pup... You will thank me if you try it.
I'm just new to your channel.. I like your content and how you present it! On your question in this Video: Yes I totally agree to what you say about VR!!! I'm also a big fan of VR and also always have problems to explain the VR Experience to friends n family. The ONLY way truly is to experience it and see it "with own" eyes... Go ahead with your videos! And yes, I also, already, watch "Simhanger" and love the well researched content there... Have a good day and see ya!
A few years in with VR and I still want to reach out and touch stuff or move my arm to see something under my virtual arm. Great video.
Sim Hanger is a great mention. His channel is excellent, as is your own. 👍 I'd be curious to know your thoughts on head tracking like Tobii. I've not taken the plunge in either VR or head tracking just yet.
I just subscribed and chose all notifications. I love VR and I am still using the Rift S but may update to the Quest 3 when it comes out toward the end of this month or next month, I hope.
Not just flight sims but racing sims too. My sim rig doesn't even have a monitor on it. We're living in the future!
As VR pilot I would like to add that the biggest barrier these days that I am getting from my friends that I am recommending VR to is " I would try it, HMD like quest2 is cheap enough, but the GPU prices to get the framerite today are a no-go". So I blame GPU prices these days , at least in flight sim community. VR itself will be fine thanks to the stand-alone headsets.
EDIT: Then again, once any of them get HMD, I managed to get them to play those sims that actually don't overboat an old egine, like VTOL VR, War Thunder and IL-2. DCS and MSFS however just frustrate average VR user to just quit.
Hey Russ - what a great video on VR. You really explained it well. Unless you've experienced VR you cannot imagine what it is like! I have followed a very similar path and have used VR in P3D and then Microsoft flight simulator. I've been flight simming since 1982 and I'm a RWP but never imagined we could experience what VR gives us today using a PC. I've flown in level D simulators that are incredibly awesome but the visuals with VR on your desktop or equally as immersive.
I was lucky enough to see some of the genesis VR hardware in the early 90s and can't even explain how incredible the progression to what we have available to us today. It is truly remarkable. I totally agree that VR flying is the future of desktop simming. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your channel. Glad to see a fellow old time simmer enjoying this hobby.
Thanks for your interesting post. I have only tried VR on a motion platform yet once and it wasn’t calibrated correctly. I think with motion it could be even more realistic. MSFS has scenery that is eye watering. Great time for home flight simulation.
That's on my wish list for sure. A Home motion rig. Nothing like the commercial stuff that Boeing, united use etc. but a small three axis home motion rig would be awesome and has now become very affordable all things considered. Seems to be the next level of immersion when coupled with VR. Agree. Visuals in Microsoft flight simulator 2020 are incredible. And, it's only gonna get better.
I tried the YawVR system at FSExpo and once rolled into a bank the roll on the motion didn’t was out. I suspect since most of these rigs started as racing sims the are just using bank angle and not realizing there is no lateral G once established in a coordinated turn. I definitely want to try any systems I invest that much money in before I pull the trigger.
I think you're right. It's definitely new tech for home motion rigs at that around the $2500 price point. There's a lot of smart people in flightsim today and I'm sure that will get ironed out. I'm like you, before I spend that much money I want it as realistic as possible (within reason at that price)! Mark at the Simhangar did a nice video about a motion rig. That got me very interested.
Thanks! that really makes my decision to go VR that more interesting!! Now just have to decide which VR headset to buy!
At first I thought you were gonna talk about how some flight simulators don’t have boats rendered into the water😂 but this topic actually appealed to me more bc I’m looking into getting vr😂
Great video! I think the controls are the biggest challenge, will try the trackball idea.
Excellent video. My first vr experience was in IL-2 Sturmovik with an oculus quest 2. My mind was blown by how the 3d effect really made me feel like I was in the actual aircraft. I'm now playing with track IR because the Quest 2 was just too blurry and cumbersome for me. It felt like a huge step back in visual fidelity. But I often wonder what IL-2 would be like with a better vr set. Like a pilot mentions here. Stuff like landing or formation flying is very difficult to judge from a flat monitor.
IL2 runs fantastic in VR. Perhaps the best flight sim for VR to date. The problem is the old game engine that can run it great in VR has poor fidelity to reality on the game physics part. If I want to show off VR to someone I fire up IL2, lol.
I agree. I just got a Meta Quest 2 on black Friday deal this week. Its very good for games like Half-life Alyx and the games that come in the Meta store. For flight sim though, I am finding it to be very blurry. A very clear downgrade from my 2D setup as far as clarity is concerned. The immersion though is amazing. Especially for small planes like the Piper Cub. I find that plane very hard to fly in 2D. But in VR its much, much easier to fly.
Absolutely on point, agree with you totally. Really like the idea of the trackball as a mouse is not feasible in VR. I've subbed for more. Brilliant content in this clip.
Thanks for the comment
Hi Russ. I had a similar path as you. And currently have the HP.
I have 2000 hrs in aviation. Gliders and powered. I always found landing a flat screen sim sim difficult but when I got the the oculus rift. Landing became intuitive and instinctive. Crosswinds became fun. This alone sold me on VR and going back to flat screen was just never going to happen. Il2 stormavic vr. Although not as accurate as msfs. Sitting in a Heinkel bomber with the feeling of size. The gunner bombardier below and forward could not be described to a flat screener. Nor the sore neck you get trying to watch your six in a sopwith camel. I too am a lot older and understand the frustration of explaining VR to a flat screener. Great vidio. Keep up the good work...
Enjoyed your comments. I love the moniker “Flat Screener” and will adopt that. Many argue TrackIR is essentially the same as VR. Their loss.
Impressive video. I am into dcs and MSFS and vr was a game changer for me. It is truly difficult to appreciate vr from watch someone explain the experience. I am still on my Samsung Odyssey plus headset since 2018. Was going to transition to the reverb G2 but I felt I wait for new headset with better features in the mid range segment.
3D inVR is been an enjoyable experience with the of visual quality. Three days of nasty nausea did not stop me. I have had my trackir 5 packed away in my storage box since I got my vr headset
Good for you for not giving up when you had that motion, sickness at the start. I was a fighter pilot and never ever felt sick in an airplane but the first time I tried a VR I also had nausea. I did a video on the whole subject because I think that it is quite common, and I have found that it is especially common for pilots because they know what it should feel like, and when they are exposed to the visual inputs without the feeling, it’s just as bad as the reversal for people who try to read in a car and feel the motion without the visual stimulus lots of good headsets coming up in the future so I’m sure you’ll find the right one.
I can't play sim's in 2D anymore. Flight and driving. I'm lucky enough to have great hardware so it's a fun experience. One of the fun things I've done is IL-2 in VR especially world war one bi planes. They are so fun to fly. Great video!
First time in your channel but this is EXACTLY the type of app that will work with my Q3.
Great vid per usual. Thanks. Eyeing an upgrade next year from my Index when I can upgrade my system from my 3080. Quite enjoying how much I've been able to squeeze out of that index up to this point, but I need to counter my aging eyes.
I’m still using my oculus rift. Can’t wait to move on to a new VR headset. What you said in your video is spot on. Once you go VR you won’t go back to using your screens for flying.
This is a brilliant explanation. So clear.
Nice shout out to Flight Sim Guy and Sim Hangar.
I agree VR flying is great but you do need a higher end rig to push all those pixels. For a Varjo Aero or Pimax Crystal it’s a minimum 3080 or better.
That said, I still use my Quest 2 and mid-spec PC at times to fly in VR just because the feeling of flight is so awesome. I know that one day I’ll get to experience the higher fidelity headsets but for now I’m content just to be immersed.
The downside of VR for me is the money I had to spent on my PC, because with the CV1 and later with the HP I really lost every little bit of joy playing or flying non VR. It feels like looking some kind of B movie from the 80‘s that was captured from HVS tape.
I totally agree, after using a VR head set in flightsim i cant go back to a 2D monitor, just doesnt do it anymore, have had my own aircraft in the past this is so close to the real thing, just upgraded from reverb G2 to Pimax Crystal after a few alterations and 3d printed some lens holders its great worth the upgrade, thanks for the great video 🤗👍
The barrier of entry to feel like you’re not absolutely blind is still to high in my opinion. Thousands of dollars for just a headset. I haven’t bought another vr since the quest 2. It’s a fun experience especially if you can get friends to get one too.
Very well explained, love my Reverb G2, will upgrade very soon 👍
Excellent observations.
I am unable to buy a high end headset and have tried many of your past ones.
Switched to the quest 3 and I am overall very pleased.
Love to see a comparison if someone lends you the quest, not expecting crystal quality, but think it allows acess for many of us on more restrictive budgets.
I have the Quest 3 and it is really very nice. What it lacks in resolution it kinda makes up with excellent edge to edge clarity and a great FOV. For the price it is a great value and when the proper software is available it will support pass through mixed reality.
Russ - thanks for a VERY informative video. You're much more into flightsim than I and your experience and insights are extremely valuable. I own the Rift and flew VR with it only a little then quit in disappointment because of inability to read the instruments in VFR, let alone IFR - just as you pointed out. Haven't done more due to fear of spending significant bucks and being disappointed again. Apparently, except for the challenges of pointing/turning - VR for IFR work is now quite usable. I AM wondering about the less expensive HTC Vive 2 Pro that claims 2448 X 2448 resolution (X2) - as compared with your top 2.
If you have the hardware you can get it to where you can read the instruments (even the small text). I would suggest a HP reverb if you want a cheap headset. With super sampling res isnt much of an issue anymore. I run the G2 at 3300x3290 with 85% CAS in OpenXR so I basically get the higher res at no cost hardware wise..
Great video. Thank you so much for your sharing.
I can first hand give you reason why they arent exactly missing the boat. VR is a PITA to set up, keep up and maintain. Id used to fly hours a day every day; now I fly rarely if ever at most once a month in any flight sim I have (and I have a lot of them). Hell, its even got to the point where I have a $6000 home made PC that can handle everything I throw at it and I cant even give in to the motivation to fly. Im one of the few where VR killed flight simming for me. Not saying I dont love it, because I do...but the hassle to get there was an ordeal in and of itself. Never ending tweaking, setting up, getting started, troubleshooting...I still have problems getting things working and they're mostly ironed out at this point, but holy hell its a cold day if I want to fly now. Then again, I havent been playing much video games either as of late.
Maybe its just me...
In 1997 I used three Mitsubishi CRT monitors to create a three-screen flight sim. At the time, the additional immersion was amazing. I've often received the cuts that come with the "leading edge" but still love being there. The breakthrough that will drive virtual environments hard into the flight sim community will be pass-thru real-world interaction aka mixed reality. Seeing it at the "pro" level excites me because it's there; it frustrates me because the pricing is still way WAY out of line for even "bleeding edge" types. I can't wait for it to make the leap.
I've been using VR since the Quest 1 and i still suffer from motion sickness today. I know people who sold their Quest 2 because of motion sickness.
It's easy to underestimate this problem when you don't suffer from it. It is a real drag on the VR economy.
I really wish Meta would add DP over Type C chipsets to their Headsets because as it stands now with only Compressed Link or Compressed Wireless via Airlink or Virtual Desktop one loses some of the clarity afforded by the increased resolution of the headsets. As far as flightsims go I couldn't care less about Meta Headsets....if it weren't for the fact that their Computer Vision Hand tracking is leagues ahead of others.....and the reason why that is relevant to the conversation is that I look forwards to the day when its good enough to interact with all the virtual cockpit buttons, dials, knobs and levers etc with our real hands. I will always use real FLight Yokes/Sticks, Pedals and Throttle Quadrants of course but for all the rest of the cockpit controls interaction etc I would love to use my real hands instead of having to pick up and put down Hand controllers blindfolded like you said.
It sounds like Meta are nearly there because their new tracking ring-less controllers for the Quest 3 actually leverage the computervision hand tracking to aid the controller tracking when the IR leds it does still have are occluded. This tells me the spatial tracking of the hands with the cameras and new AI enhanced algorithms are now capable of much better XYZ tracking than before...meaning it might be getting accurate enough to know your thumb and pointing finger are trying to grab and twist such and such knob etc. Thats all for nought though if the headset isn't good enough in other areas.
I'll be getting a Quest 3 to replace my 2 anyway but I am really hoping either Valve come out with a PCVR Headset soon to replace the Index with the specs I like including Meta rivalling hand tracking for the aforementioned reasons (Not holding my breath though as either they dont plan to release anything and Deckard is just rumours or else the fact that they are last to the party with Computervision hand tracking meaning they are generations behind in terms of accuracy) and I'll pay whatever they want. That or Meta bring out a Quest Pro 2 with the features I want like Display Port or DP over Type C, higher res than the Q3 or Q-Pro, OLED panels, Wider FOV etc. Come on META, pull out all the stops for Quest Pro 2!!
I recently started to use Voice Attack with some free commands I found online for the FBW 320. I’d love to see a video with you trying it, especially as you are a real world pilot. It may be a better solution for VR than pass through in some cases.
Very good points. Thanks for sharing.
With VR, empty cockpits is a big NO.
So glad DCS gives the option for most of its planes to have aircrafts not being flown by ghosts.
3:25 I got shocked hearing this as i live in Finland. No idea our country had made a vr headset!
I agree. I keep trying to work on more things to make a universal cockpit with 3 monitors but every time I put on my HP G2 I am thinking I can not compare. This is sitting in the plane where a home cockpit is sitting at my desk IN front of a bunch of cool things to try and pretend I am in the real thing. I need to just work on creating devices I can use in VR to make my experience better. I like the idea of the track ball.
Thanks for your insights, Russ. VR in my home cockpit would save a lot of space, but be a waste of all my 737 hardware 😢. Overhead, throttle quadrant, pedestal, etc. VR that lets you manually flip switches, turn knobs and so on , is probably out of reach for some time.
Mixed reality is coming so keep your hardware…it will be the best of both worlds
@@rbarlowI'm guessing we'll get haptic gloves at some point too 😀
@@rbarlowany particular idea? Varjo??? And how long do you think I will have to wait (starting to get near the point where I have to decide whether or not ordering big TV's)?
Great video!! I'm really wanting to upgrade from my G2 to the Pimax. My system has a 4080, i7-10700K, 32gb ram, nvme drives.
The cpu might be bottle nicking my gpu to some degree. I'm getting pretty good fps with it though, but not everything set to ultra.
Thanks for the comparison! I just heard on Overkill's youtube channel the Pimax just had a very good firmware update that helps a lot!
nice comparison-graphics..
what you missed to mention: 2subpixels vs. 3 subpixels
so the improvment in persived resolution is even higher when the headsets switched from oled displays with 2subpixel-pentile matrix to LCD with 3 subpixels
Hey Russ, this is an excellent reflection on the impact of VR and thankyou so much for the shout out too. That was a nice surprise! Take care :)
Very welcome. I think you have the best VR flight sim channel available and I never miss a video. I enjoyed your livestream with Sebastian… great job.
@@rbarlowThanks Russ, that truly means a lot coming from you! 😊
Excellent content as always and I couldn't agree more with everything you said 👍
I'm new to Gran Turismo 7 on the PS5 with the PSVR2. The VR2 experience is exponentially better than driving on a flat screen.
I'm IN the car in VR. I feel the car and the road much better.
Great real world info. Thank you for your videos Russ!
My pleasure!
I use a physical cockpit scaled to the C172, an iPad running ForeFlight on my yoke and a knee board with pen and paper, just as I fly in real life. Sure, have to look down my nose, or maybe lift the headset slightly on occasion, but it is no different than adjusting my glasses, IMHO.
Regarding the experience, there is absolutely no comparison. My iPad tells me (via ForeFlight) “traffic, 7o’clock, 1,000’ below” I look over my left shoulder, and there it is!
My Crystal gets here today and I was glad to see this video, as I leave my Index behind.
Happy Simming!
Great video, as usual, Russ. What VR headset are you using right now?
Don't sleep on Quest 3 if some of the higher end models are out of your price range. It has a rating of 25PPD due to the pancake lenses and dual internal displays that don't waste as many pixels outside of the viewing range as the Quest 2 did.
I'm more into VR itself than sims, as I had a DK1 and DK2, and have had about six other headsets since.
I'm a casual MSFS 2020 player, and can easily read the instruments with the Quest 3 without having to lean in. I also play VR driving sims such as Assetto Corsa 2 and Project Cars 3 and a few hundred hours in Elite Dangerous.
I don't have a full enthusiast setup, but have a decent HOTAS and Wheel.
I have a 4090 and a 5800x3D, so I can run most sim games very well.
It's a bigger improvement over Q2 than it seems on paper.
Don't get me wrong, higher end enthusiasts headsets will do better, but Quest 3 is easily the best in its price range for what it can do and very acceptable for VR sim use.
If you can afford it, a Pimax Crystal is a better option if you're into this type of game, and is releasing a Wigig wireless module for wireless in the near future.
Aero isn't a great consumer headset and is kind of a pain to set up and the software is terrible for consumer use, but the visuals are impressive once you do get it up and running. I wouldn't recommend one to someone who isn't willing to deal with that, or wants to play VR games that aren't sims where you're seated.
The Q3 displays are LCD, so you're taking a hit on black levels, but overall the colors are better than the Pico 4.
Latency isn't great, at about 40ms on average, but it's definitely better than just playable.
You can hook a Quest 3 up to a PC with a USB C cable, but you can also use a Wifi6 or 6e router for wireless play, and will probably want to get a battery pack for it if you go wireless.
It isn't perfect, but for the money it performs admirably at what it does. If you can't drop over $1k on a headset, it's a viable option that will do the job better than you might expect at between $500-$700 US as of this post.
If you have the disposable income, go with the advice in this video with the higher end headsets, but if you're not quite willing to drop that kind of money on a VR HMD, don't sleep on Quest 3. It's good enough to get the job done and do it well.
If you're not sure, various retail outlets do often have demo units you can check out. My local Best Buy has a unit out for people to try. They won't be running something like MSFS, and will just have little mini-games to try out, but should give a good idea of the difference between VR on TH-cam and actually using an HMD.
Even if you're interested in a higher end headset, checking out a Quest 3 demo unit will give you a good general idea of what to expect from VR and what the big deal is for games like MSFS or other sims.
Great video. I enjoy VR (using a quest on PC). What bugs me ATM is the setup time, somehow I don’t seem to be able to click and fly like I do with a monitor. Also tuning level of details can be a pain and even with a decent graphic card you may end up butchering the experience.
Great video while I love my Rift CV1 and don't have any issues using it that you listed. In fact I prefer the screen door to the quest 2 blurriness. To the point I'm only upgrading to the quest 3 for it being a true Mixed reality headset at I price point I can afford. But yeah to add to the recording bit most VR games suck at being recording friendly as they don't have options like ports and mods do to see what is really displayed in the headset so that makes VR videos much harder to give the viewer all the info the VR user has.
I am looking at the Quest 3 too as it seems to offer a lot for the price....maybe a sucessor to the G2 as a best bang for the buck value headset
This was very informative. Thank you.
You can suggest that your followers watch the images you recorded with one eye closed, so that they can have a little bit of a three-dimensional experience. Monoscopic depth cues, especially parallax, will provide a simple yet effective experience. Good video by the way 👍
Great video, very informative and comprehensive.
Ive just stayed away because I am already hot natured, and really just didnt want this contraption on my head. Ive done the best I can by having a small office space, without windows, and an ultra wide monitor. I then use tobii eye tracker. That so far is my favorite setup. I had some personal issues with the eye tracker early on, but I finally worked through settings that fit my needs.
Only used TrackIR a shot time so I never gave it a fair chance and soon went with a three monitor setup so I didn’t need it. Glad it is working for you. Don’t know if you’ve tried VR flying but if not try it when you have a chance.
What detracts me most from flying in VR (I also use VR for racing sims and spaceflight) is the inability to take notes. I mostly fly online and need to write down the controller's instructions. I haven't found a viable solution yet, so I can only fly in VR if I am offline.
lot of streamers use like in game chat windows. they can pin them in the game world and just interact with them while in game. maybe something like that exists/can be made for taking notes as well...
I'm waiting for proper mixed reality. Tried to fly with my VR many times but I always get annoyed after a while. Too cumbersome regarding maps and charts, can't see anything around me, taking notes in VR takes some getting use to as well. Especially the lack of physical buttons is a big turn off for me. But the immersion is amazing, so mixed reality will be great. Then I just wish for light headsets (for my neck) and ones that doesnt heat up my face after an hour flying 😂
I absolutely agree with your impression of 3D. I used 3D screens until nVidia ended support and have tried VR. Other than resolution, my biggest complaint with VR is not being able to adjust 3D depth (separation). I find even though VR is 3D it doesn't have the depth I could dial in with 3D screens. There has to be a way to hack that but I haven't figure it out yet. Also there needs o be a software solution to IPD. Sure, most headset can move the lenses but you really need to adjust the actual image. Moving lenses by themselves only moves the sweet spot. So either the LCD's (or whatever) need to move to compensate for IPD or you need to be able to adjust that with software. I probably won't get another VR headset until I can be assured these things are adjustable.
I don't think you really need to adjust the depth under VR, unless your visual physiological structure is very unique, for example, you have a very wide or narrow pupil distance or visual axis angle.