I’m a low time pilot looking at one of these at the end of a 10yr plan. Step up to an A36 in the near term and gain experience on my own as well as other external training. Do you have any wisdom off the top of your head to impart?
Anything with a (published) maximum gross takeoff weight (MGTW) of 12,500lbs or greater, and ANY turbojet aircraft requires a type rating. This TBM 700 has a MGTW of 6579, so no type rating required.
@@bodeine4751 It is pretty similar to a modern SR22T or 182, typically all Garmin glass. Landing speeds, etc., are similar...real difference is a heavier airplane and low prop clearance. You can't bounce. Ever. But even though there is no "type rating" there is still a checkout and test that will be required by any insurance provider which is, effectively, a type rating training course and practical test. So unless you plan on flying uninsured, you will need to attend a rating course and demonstrate in-flight proficiency and mentored instruction for quite awhile.
@@adventuresofalphapop There are about a dozen states that require insurance as I recall. That said, I would never fly bare-bones. The hassle is not worth it. And if you rent a hanger, they will require hanger insurance.
@@adventuresofalphapopmy goodness...this is just beyond foolish...seriously. To suggest, let alone state, that the Sirius and 182 are somehow comparable to the TBM is laughable...both have wings, both fly...yup! Been spending a lot of hours in the flight levels in a 182 or sr22? How's that working out, huh? C'MON!
@MG - How does it compare to the Pilatus12 or the King Air C90 cabin/comfort-wise(obviously both used); how do u feel progression-wise going from the piston Sling to a TP - the 700? And wouldn't the Malibu suffice, given the said criteria: "room for four", "pressurized(above-the-weather capable"), "fast (faster than the Sling)", and obviously bettering the TB 700 in every conceivable cost consideration?
For roughly the same price you can get a new Piper M350. Give it a second look because it's actually quite capable. Also with pressurized cabin and similar layout to the TBM.
M350 is a piston? That's really a different class of airplane, even if pressurized. To ask a piston to carry a heavier, pressurized cabin is asking quite a lot (that's why you don't see a lot of pressurized pistons, that and even with turbo, there is limit in getting a sparkplug to work past a certain altitude), so you could compare that against a Cirrus/SR and it may be a decent deal, but really not in the same class as a turbine. It shows a payload, I think, of 588lbs. That's just the pilot and maybe 1-2 "modern" men and no bags. So you can (and should) just not fill up your tanks, but there is no W&B work to be done with the TBM C2 whereas a lot of decisions to be made around any single engine piston. I think that is why Mike is looking to the turbines.
It's amazing how people think that flight training in a high-performance aircraft like this is the same as attending traffic school: You sit through 'X' number of hours of class, and here's a Certificate of Completion, congrats, off you go. There are seasoned airline pilots with thousands of flight hours that have difficulties transitioning from one plane to another. There are seasoned airline pilots that bust (fail) periodic check rides. To think, "this bird is awesome, here's my money!" is beyond naive. When you go to training, you better bring the skill to learn, study, be tested, and then MAYBE you'll pass. More time than not, the inexperienced pilot will get the chit scared out of them and have brains to back off.
How do the operating/ maintenance costs of the TBM 700 compare to a similar priced Citation CJ jet? I know they are less, but how much less? I have not see that quantified.
You can't really compare the a single engine propjet to a twin jet. Wildly different machines with wildly different regulations and requirements. Wildly different fuel burns also. Wildly different insurance and training costs (hello FAA Type Rating, and you may need two pilots). No jet is inexpensive if it has economical hours left on it for the buyer...by the time you see a twin jet hovering around the "similar price" you have a jet that is probably 5-10x the per hour operating cost (too much to quantify here) and has timed out engines or other major components that are going to need to be overhauled at a cost that will bring you very close to the cost of that jet if it were new.
@@adventuresofalphapop I was wondering how much the difference was in fixed costs and in per hour operating costs. Vs the the CJs in the same price range.
@@adventuresofalphapop I owned a Piper Jetprop for 8 years. I really tried to convince myself that a TBM (likely a 700) was what I needed to move up. What I found was that the maintenance costs (per AVEX) were nearly identical to a Citation Mustang. No doubt as you point out the type rating is expensive (around 50K for me leasing a jet but hey it's flying time) as well as annual requirements (61.58) but you exaggerate the cost of ops of an early model Citation (CJ or Mustang). Other than the training the fuel is pretty much it. I plan for 100 gph but it's usually less. What that gets me is 41,000 feet, a bit faster and the peace of mind of having 2 engines going into my box canyon airport that is at 9070 feet and a chemical toilet. The TBM line is the top of the turboprops but if you can afford it the jet is the way to go. Lots of Citation owners were former TBM drivers but not many TBM owners were former Citation owners (there are a few). I've owned a Mustang for 6 years.
You might consider brand new piper M600, also 280KTAS, brand new avionics, and factory care program - piper will cover maintenance up to 1500 flight hrs.
Definitely review the MU2 solitaire. That might truly be the most underrated turboprop. Especially since pilots are now trained properly in how to fly it with full span flaps.
I met Kurt Russell when he had his TBM 700 a few years back. It was awesome indeed. TBMs need no type ratings. Yes, annual currency for insurance purposes. No type rating. Bro. TBMs are superb airplanes. With what you verbalized relating to your desire to upgrade, you know that's a whole lotta airplane for you, right? I always suggest first and foremost. . .spend a few dollars at FlightSafety, SIMCON, CAE in a simulator as a step in the process before final selection. Piper M series, to include the 350 could fit your needs I think. Diamond DA42/62 are less expensive than a 700. TBMs are a lot of airplane. I put myself in your shoes and say "hmmm, my skills and my family in this type of aircraft." Is it a good fit? If yes. . .go for it. TBMs is a lot of airplane. Fractional ownership? Pilatus PC-12? Hell. . .Cirrus new is a lot of airplane. TBM is a lot of airplane.
Yep, I think he should step up into a bigger piston first before jumping several logical steps straight into a turbine. Maybe a turbo charged P210. He's coming from an experimental with a rotax engine and doesn't have much flying time at all judging from his flying videos. Sounds like a scary step up in plane given the flying history
Hello Mike TBM 700 is nice but if you are looking for 6 seats incredible payload and great speed you can go for a Cessna T210N model. “The Rolls Royce of the single engines” without braking your bank 180 TAS on 15 gph. If you want to climb faster and 15-20 more knots the Silvereagle C210 is a great choice 200 TAS on 20 gph jet A fuel.
Who wouldn’t want to be in one of those. I think a lot of pilots with families would love a family wagon like that. I think if you have to have ask about the total cost of ownership you can’t afford it. So now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, what’s the total cost of ownership?
There are piston single engine planes out there that will seat five and cruise at 25,000 feet. No need for the expense of buying a turboprop and the associated maintenance costs.
Yep, I think he should step up into a bigger piston. Maybe a turbo charged P210. He's coming from an experimental with a rotax engine and doesn't have much flying time at all judging from his flying videos. Sounds like a scary step up in plane given the flying history
@@thesearcherman6652 it’s a lot. Most likely Mike will pay $60k + for his first year insurance. Maintenance will be about $60k. Hangar about $30k. Fuel for 150hrs @ $5g is $45k. Misc. of $10k. All in $200k - $220k a year if he paid cash for the plane.
@@michaelmartin8331-Yep, that is a lot. If my memory is correct, Premiere driver said it cost him $1800 hr. to fly his Premiere? Not sure what that included.
At the $2 million level, especially right now with prices crashing, there are a huge number of options, both turboprop and jet. As your family grows, you will quickly find the TBM will get smaller and tighter. It really is a 1-2 passenger owner flown airplane. Right now, it seems that the best value at $2 million is the Beech Premier. Check it out.
Well if you are dabbling in planes that are fueled by pulverized 100$ bills, isn't an Eclipse twin jet in the same price range or less with comparable fuel economy if you slow it down to turboprop speeds? one is cooler than the other. One can cross oceans without funny suits. The other cannot.
Stick with turboprop from piper way more customer service and a little bit cheaper price tag for basically the same plane, ever since Daher bought the TBM they have gone down in service
When you have a turbine, your maintence considerations is about the turbine engine. That is a 1M engine new these days, and any repair, overhaul, inspection, etc. involves going straight to Pratt in Canada. Regardless of who answers the phone quicker, your plane will be sitting for months or flying depending on the relationship (and sway) your maintence shop has with Pratt who is overwhelmed with supply chain problems and cost overuns. Turbine world is in no way similar to the piston world when it comes to cost of operation and maintenance. I don't have experience with Piper, but have heard they have the same parts issues everyone does, but I highly doubt that with their sales volumes in turbines, they will have any priority with Pratt or Garmin...The engine and avionics are *most* the cost of a turbine. A 700 C2 with no engine in it and original avionics (not upgraded glass) would be worth, maybe, 300-400k.
That's funny how Morgan pops up on the website. She's def animated. 😂 Congrats to her graduating from Blue Line Jan of last year. TBM's seem interesting. I see Steveo flys one. Maybe i will sooner or later. Enjoy your holiday weekend. #salute my gud brotha!!!!!!
"...most underrated turboprop in the world...a popular choice among pilots and passengers alike, offering an exceptional flying experience." Underrated by whom? C'mon Mike, which is it...popular choice, underrated, popular choice, I'm so confused Mike!
I dont get the criticism. You know he would have to hire someone to start or attend extensive training right? Insurance is a thing and they are aware of your logbook lol
TBM is great. I have had 3 over about 20yrs. 700A, 700B, 700C2 Now in a 5yr gap - but looking to get a new one soon!
Money man
I’m a low time pilot looking at one of these at the end of a 10yr plan. Step up to an A36 in the near term and gain experience on my own as well as other external training. Do you have any wisdom off the top of your head to impart?
These TBM's are beautiful planes... mini-airliners!
Hell of a jump from a 100HP kit build to 20k a month minimum all in.
Great review. Thanks. Where would you recommend I look for buying this model?
I believe a TBM does not actually require a type rating.
Anything with a (published) maximum gross takeoff weight (MGTW) of 12,500lbs or greater, and ANY turbojet aircraft requires a type rating. This TBM 700 has a MGTW of 6579, so no type rating required.
Which is kind of insane given how advanced it is
@@bodeine4751 It is pretty similar to a modern SR22T or 182, typically all Garmin glass. Landing speeds, etc., are similar...real difference is a heavier airplane and low prop clearance. You can't bounce. Ever. But even though there is no "type rating" there is still a checkout and test that will be required by any insurance provider which is, effectively, a type rating training course and practical test. So unless you plan on flying uninsured, you will need to attend a rating course and demonstrate in-flight proficiency and mentored instruction for quite awhile.
@@adventuresofalphapop There are about a dozen states that require insurance as I recall. That said, I would never fly bare-bones. The hassle is not worth it. And if you rent a hanger, they will require hanger insurance.
@@adventuresofalphapopmy goodness...this is just beyond foolish...seriously.
To suggest, let alone state, that the Sirius and 182 are somehow comparable to the TBM is laughable...both have wings, both fly...yup! Been spending a lot of hours in the flight levels in a 182 or sr22? How's that working out, huh? C'MON!
I love that TBM! Definitely hits all of the stops for sure.
Sup my gud brotha & yea it looks interesting. Never flown one before. Perhaps sooner or later.
Mike have you started your training in any TBM ?
@MG - How does it compare to the Pilatus12 or the King Air C90 cabin/comfort-wise(obviously both used); how do u feel progression-wise going from the piston Sling to a TP - the 700? And wouldn't the Malibu suffice, given the said criteria: "room for four", "pressurized(above-the-weather capable"), "fast (faster than the Sling)", and obviously bettering the TB 700 in every conceivable cost consideration?
"every conceivable cost consideration"
King Airs have twice the number of engines to feed and maintain.
@@discofun "every conceivable cost consideration" was meant for the Malibu, not the KA.
Im glad you chose this plane. While videos on the newest models, you just assume older ones are obsolete.
For roughly the same price you can get a new Piper M350. Give it a second look because it's actually quite capable. Also with pressurized cabin and similar layout to the TBM.
M350 is a piston? That's really a different class of airplane, even if pressurized. To ask a piston to carry a heavier, pressurized cabin is asking quite a lot (that's why you don't see a lot of pressurized pistons, that and even with turbo, there is limit in getting a sparkplug to work past a certain altitude), so you could compare that against a Cirrus/SR and it may be a decent deal, but really not in the same class as a turbine. It shows a payload, I think, of 588lbs. That's just the pilot and maybe 1-2 "modern" men and no bags. So you can (and should) just not fill up your tanks, but there is no W&B work to be done with the TBM C2 whereas a lot of decisions to be made around any single engine piston. I think that is why Mike is looking to the turbines.
It's amazing how people think that flight training in a high-performance aircraft like this is the same as attending traffic school: You sit through 'X' number of hours of class, and here's a Certificate of Completion, congrats, off you go. There are seasoned airline pilots with thousands of flight hours that have difficulties transitioning from one plane to another. There are seasoned airline pilots that bust (fail) periodic check rides. To think, "this bird is awesome, here's my money!" is beyond naive. When you go to training, you better bring the skill to learn, study, be tested, and then MAYBE you'll pass. More time than not, the inexperienced pilot will get the chit scared out of them and have brains to back off.
I recognized the TBM thumbnail. Sweet aircraft and has a jet feel in terms of climb and acceleration without the downside of jets. Nice aircraft!
How do the operating/ maintenance costs of the TBM 700 compare to a similar priced Citation CJ jet? I know they are less, but how much less? I have not see that quantified.
You can't really compare the a single engine propjet to a twin jet. Wildly different machines with wildly different regulations and requirements. Wildly different fuel burns also. Wildly different insurance and training costs (hello FAA Type Rating, and you may need two pilots). No jet is inexpensive if it has economical hours left on it for the buyer...by the time you see a twin jet hovering around the "similar price" you have a jet that is probably 5-10x the per hour operating cost (too much to quantify here) and has timed out engines or other major components that are going to need to be overhauled at a cost that will bring you very close to the cost of that jet if it were new.
@@adventuresofalphapop I was wondering how much the difference was in fixed costs and in per hour operating costs. Vs the the CJs in the same price range.
@@adventuresofalphapop I owned a Piper Jetprop for 8 years. I really tried to convince myself that a TBM (likely a 700) was what I needed to move up. What I found was that the maintenance costs (per AVEX) were nearly identical to a Citation Mustang. No doubt as you point out the type rating is expensive (around 50K for me leasing a jet but hey it's flying time) as well as annual requirements (61.58) but you exaggerate the cost of ops of an early model Citation (CJ or Mustang). Other than the training the fuel is pretty much it. I plan for 100 gph but it's usually less. What that gets me is 41,000 feet, a bit faster and the peace of mind of having 2 engines going into my box canyon airport that is at 9070 feet and a chemical toilet. The TBM line is the top of the turboprops but if you can afford it the jet is the way to go. Lots of Citation owners were former TBM drivers but not many TBM owners were former Citation owners (there are a few). I've owned a Mustang for 6 years.
You might consider brand new piper M600, also 280KTAS, brand new avionics, and factory care program - piper will cover maintenance up to 1500 flight hrs.
A new M600 is double the price of 700 C2. Hard to make that up in maintenance.
Pilot door was first available in the 700 B models
Underrated???
A TBM is my dream!
What is the cost for inspections on this airplane ? Thanks
Definitely review the MU2 solitaire. That might truly be the most underrated turboprop. Especially since pilots are now trained properly in how to fly it with full span flaps.
Anyone else notice the InGen sticker from Jurassic Park? Spared no expense!
Very nice plane plus it will get you there faster super nice
i dont fly, but my gawd i like to own that because its fricken beautiful!
I have a feeling that a TBM is going to be Mike’s next airplane!!
Facts! He is too gitty about them to not get one.
Love the Ingen sticker lol
I LOVE this aircraft. It's so far out of my budget though.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't require a "rating"?
I met Kurt Russell when he had his TBM 700 a few years back. It was awesome indeed.
TBMs need no type ratings. Yes, annual currency for insurance purposes. No type rating.
Bro. TBMs are superb airplanes. With what you verbalized relating to your desire to upgrade, you know that's a whole lotta airplane for you, right? I always suggest first and foremost. . .spend a few dollars at FlightSafety, SIMCON, CAE in a simulator as a step in the process before final selection. Piper M series, to include the 350 could fit your needs I think. Diamond DA42/62 are less expensive than a 700. TBMs are a lot of airplane. I put myself in your shoes and say "hmmm, my skills and my family in this type of aircraft." Is it a good fit? If yes. . .go for it.
TBMs is a lot of airplane. Fractional ownership? Pilatus PC-12? Hell. . .Cirrus new is a lot of airplane. TBM is a lot of airplane.
Yep, I think he should step up into a bigger piston first before jumping several logical steps straight into a turbine. Maybe a turbo charged P210. He's coming from an experimental with a rotax engine and doesn't have much flying time at all judging from his flying videos. Sounds like a scary step up in plane given the flying history
Was that the Ingen logo from Jurrasic Park movies i saw on the side of the plane? Thats cool lol
Do you have to have insurance if your just going to use it for personal use?
You don’t have to have insurance, but it would be very smart to have one
Hello Mike TBM 700 is nice but if you are looking for 6 seats incredible payload and great speed you can go for a Cessna T210N model. “The Rolls Royce of the single engines” without braking your bank 180 TAS on 15 gph. If you want to climb faster and 15-20 more knots the Silvereagle C210 is a great choice 200 TAS on 20 gph jet A fuel.
Who wouldn’t want to be in one of those. I think a lot of pilots with families would love a family wagon like that. I think if you have to have ask about the total cost of ownership you can’t afford it. So now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, what’s the total cost of ownership?
There are piston single engine planes out there that will seat five and cruise at 25,000 feet. No need for the expense of buying a turboprop and the associated maintenance costs.
Yep, I think he should step up into a bigger piston. Maybe a turbo charged P210. He's coming from an experimental with a rotax engine and doesn't have much flying time at all judging from his flying videos. Sounds like a scary step up in plane given the flying history
I am a fan of this plane and pilot!
Just saw a quote on a 2024 960 with all the bells and whistles $5.272.
Very Nice Bro! Get Good People/Pilots!
Great video brother. Your content inspires me to be a better pilot
Lancair 7Lx long range and verry fast
I submitted skywatch insurance application about 2 months ago and never heard. Not a peep. Went with traditional broker
I wouldn't call it "underrated" at all. Most pilots cover the TBM (for speed) or the Pilatus (for hauling capacity.)
Loving these turboprop reviews 🎉
A excellent choice to get the weight and speeds you want at half the price.
Like it!
That was a great information video I'm glad you did it.
Excellent brief. Will be following your journey since I fly the Sling as well. 👌🙌
Nice Thanks...
Are you aware of Airdrome aeroplanes ww1 replicas? Not the turboprop fast fliers but they look fun.
We all know that he's getting a TBM they way he's been dropping these videos. Probably training with the dude right now.
Go for it! you only live once
MIKE
If you fly say 600 hours per year, what is the total hourly operating cost? Thanks Mo!
Who flies a TBM 600 hrs per year? 🤦♂️
@@michaelmartin8331 Ok, 300, 200, 100, somebody has to have an idea of hourly cost? 😳
@@thesearcherman6652 it’s a lot. Most likely Mike will pay $60k + for his first year insurance. Maintenance will be about $60k. Hangar about $30k. Fuel for 150hrs @ $5g is $45k. Misc. of $10k. All in $200k - $220k a year if he paid cash for the plane.
@@michaelmartin8331-Yep, that is a lot. If my memory is correct, Premiere driver said it cost him $1800 hr. to fly his Premiere? Not sure what that included.
Mojo's business must be poppin! thinking a pressurized twin would fit you mission much better. Plus you need a twin for the flight school.
TBM is not underrated at all. Talk to any pilot who flew it . I have about 150 hours in a C2 with pilot door. Great plane.
Mike I have a question. I'm 6'7 300 pounds. How comfortable would I be in the passenger section? At a glance it looks like I could fit.
Just got my PPL. My girlfriends uncle has a 700. Gotta start kissing some a**! Lol
😅😅😅😅😅😅
Congratulations 🎉
Based on the cost of this plane, it sounds like your businesses are doing well.
At the $2 million level, especially right now with prices crashing, there are a huge number of options, both turboprop and jet. As your family grows, you will quickly find the TBM will get smaller and tighter. It really is a 1-2 passenger owner flown airplane. Right now, it seems that the best value at $2 million is the Beech Premier. Check it out.
Well if you are dabbling in planes that are fueled by pulverized 100$ bills, isn't an Eclipse twin jet in the same price range or less with comparable fuel economy if you slow it down to turboprop speeds? one is cooler than the other. One can cross oceans without funny suits. The other cannot.
Eclipse has less range and payload and issues with part supply
I wouldn’t want to cross oceans in ether plane lmao where am i gonna take piss lol 😂
I like the eclipse. But parts may be an issue. Also a full payload nukes the range
What a goods choice 😀
Stick with turboprop from piper way more customer service and a little bit cheaper price tag for basically the same plane, ever since Daher bought the TBM they have gone down in service
When you have a turbine, your maintence considerations is about the turbine engine. That is a 1M engine new these days, and any repair, overhaul, inspection, etc. involves going straight to Pratt in Canada. Regardless of who answers the phone quicker, your plane will be sitting for months or flying depending on the relationship (and sway) your maintence shop has with Pratt who is overwhelmed with supply chain problems and cost overuns. Turbine world is in no way similar to the piston world when it comes to cost of operation and maintenance. I don't have experience with Piper, but have heard they have the same parts issues everyone does, but I highly doubt that with their sales volumes in turbines, they will have any priority with Pratt or Garmin...The engine and avionics are *most* the cost of a turbine. A 700 C2 with no engine in it and original avionics (not upgraded glass) would be worth, maybe, 300-400k.
That's funny how Morgan pops up on the website. She's def animated. 😂 Congrats to her graduating from Blue Line Jan of last year.
TBM's seem interesting. I see Steveo flys one. Maybe i will sooner or later. Enjoy your holiday weekend. #salute my gud brotha!!!!!!
"...most underrated turboprop in the world...a popular choice among pilots and passengers alike, offering an exceptional flying experience."
Underrated by whom? C'mon Mike, which is it...popular choice, underrated, popular choice, I'm so confused Mike!
Why haven't you considered the PC-12? It's a great bird!
I bought this airplane because I get a door. 😄
You know your flying dude. How come more brothers (Michael Dorn) aren’t aviators?
Underrated ?? To who.. none Aviation community who think a G1000 is a smart sex toy
Underrated? I think TBMs would be at or near the top of anyones list.
C’mon man. You could barley handle your piston single with proficiency. You’ve got no business in the turbo prop.
Damn!!!!
Don’t hate the player…
I dont get the criticism. You know he would have to hire someone to start or attend extensive training right? Insurance is a thing and they are aware of your logbook lol
@@FlightX101 Training isn't a case of "show up, and you pass!" You still have to bring the skill.
You seem very racist
Either way, its 100% a pilots airplane. Built to last, FULL SEND!