It also didn't hurt that he was the one who trained Anakin in the first place; and that Anakin final move was the same move Obi-wan used on Maul in TPM.
Think about what happened to them before they died, Maul loses his legs, Dooku loses his hands, and Grievous burns alive. Obi Wan cuts his legs off, cuts his remaining hand off and lets him burn.
I have to say, it’s so refreshing to just listen to a fan who unironically enjoys the prequels. There’s too much negativity out there and it’s fun to just listen to someone enjoy stuff.
Agreed. They're flawed, for sure, and I have my own issues with them, but I do think they're WAY overly hated. Personally, I never had that much of a problem with them.
@@artsman412 Since the Sequel trilogy came out, people's distaste for the prequels have cooled, it seems. I'd always been a fan of Star Wars my whole life, I love the prequels as much as the original trilogy, hell, I even can see the merits in the sequel trilogy too, but then trying to explain my views just gets me shouted down by everyone. I've given up on trying to help others turn their thinking around regarding the sequels. Its like back in the days when everyone hated the prequels.
People like the prequels now, but holy shit is there so much sequel hate. Every single Star Wars comment section is full of toxicity, even when it’s totally unrelated or uncalled for.
@@treytonjohnson1 Agreed. Are they flawed? Sure, but that's because they swapped directors and tone halfway through. Are they bad though? Not really. As I said before, each film has its merits.
Rip to a legend I disagree with you: Count Dooku is overrated. He is not that powerful compared to other sith from the Old Republic. But some fans treat him like he is. He is cool, sofisticated and menacing. They made a good job in the Clone Wars and in the movies. But again, i don't think he is underrated.
@@diogocruz21 The Old Republic sith aren't canon anymore and they're quite op. Most of the Old Republic sith were unbelievably strong that the sith of the prequels and originals were no were near them.
@@diogocruz21 There were thousands of Sith during the Old Republic. Only a handful of them were more powerful than Dooku and even fewer were as good as him in lightsaber duels.
I love how Anakin and Obi-Wan are always connected even in their enemies, including Dooku. Maul despised Obi-Wan as his arch-nemesis, the one who crippled him, just like Vader. Dooku respected Obi-Wan as a true Jedi and worthy opponent, the same way Vader viewed Obi-Wan even with his own hatred of him and only he was allowed to defeat him. Grievous saw Obi-Wan as the grand prize, whose defeat will prove to himself how powerful he really is, just like Vader wanting to finally prove that he is the strongest Force user to ever live.
Like I said in the comment above, if things would of taken a different turn. Obi Wan would of surpassed both Yoda and Mace in power and sheer skill. Him and Anakin where the Calvary of the Jedi, they could clear a whole battlefield themselves. Dooku had so much admiration and respect for Obi Wan because Obi Wan was trained by Qui Gon, making Obi Wan some sort of a grandchild to Dooku. Since he’s teaching where passed in to Obi Wan by Qui Gon. Anakin saw Obi Wan as he’s father, brother, he everything. Second only To Padme. Even though Anakin is the chosen one, Obi Wan is the only one to Rival him and be his equal, it’s no wonder Vader sees no one but Obi Wan worthy to be the one to defeat him. The only one to give him the battle he craves. Maul is what Joker is to Batman, Obi Wan humiliated him practically countless times. When it comes to Grevious, it’s like Kakashi Hatake when he died in Naruto Shippuden. Everyone was in shock and almost dropped in dispair when Kakashi was killed by Pain. It was a huge blow to the moral and a huge blow to their hopeful outlook in battle: Kakashi was practically a one man army, to be taken out cause a massive shake in the psychosis not only in the mind of every Leaf Shinobi, but also Lady Stunade and Naruto himself. The same can be said with Grevious wanting Obi Wans head, he knew that killing Obi Wan would be a massive blow to the Jedi, especially to Anakin, hell Anakin would probably succumb to depression if Grevious ever managed to kill Obi Wan, the blow would definately affect all of the Jedi as a whole We forget how pivotal Obi Wan was and is during the clone wars and rise of the sith. Hell even Sidious feared Obi Wan as much as he did with Dooku.
Darth Maul: A Sith Lord that is full of hatred and has an iconic look Darth Tyranus: A fallen Jedi that fell to the dark side Grievous: Tall, Jedi killing Cyborg Darth Vader: All three
I love the appreciation for Christopher Lee as Count Dooku in this video. He really isn't given enough credit for making Dooku as badass and elegant as he is. Rest in Peace the absolute legend.
@GOLDBOND vs BALLS Geez, chill the fuck out bro. Compared to Ian Mcdiarmid, Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson etc. I rarely hear people praise Christopher Lee for his role in the prequels. That doesn't mean he doesn't receive praise. Who put your balls in some vice grips?
Heard that apparently Dooku was initially meant to beg for his life but Lee objected too it saying. It didn’t make sense for his character. Which I like since it makes Dooku realized he was nothing but a palm to Palpatine. Where if he was begging not to die comes across as a sore loser
@@JohnWilliams-wl9px Lee also replaced Qui-Gon with ‘Peter’ in his script, so that when he rehearsed his lines he could channel the grief he was still feeling from losing Peter Cushing. When he says, “I wish he were still alive. I could use his help right now,” he *meant* it.
These villains also represent what made Vader behind the scenes. Maul is played by martial artist Ray Park, an almost entirely physical portrayal that was later overdubbed. Maul wouldn't be anything like himself without the contributions of Park, who with little dialogue had to create a complete character that walks and moves and acts like the ultimate badass, just like David Prowse. Dooku is played by the well spoken veteran actor Sir Christopher Lee. Due to Lee's age, Dooku is a very vocal character, he is reserved, calm and often speaking during his fight sequences. His stature is almost completely verbal instead of relying physicality, just like James Earl Jones contributions to the character of Darth Vader. Then you have Grevious, the completely artificial, CGI character. Grievous is the least human of them all, his body being artificial in the world of the film as well as the real world. He is the suit that defines Vaders look, but he's also the final contribution to the character, Ben Burtt. Burtt used technology to give us Vaders most iconic sound, using a scuba mask and a tape machine to produce the sound of Vaders breathing
"If Dooku marks the start of a chain of disillusionment with the Jedi way of thinking, Qui-Gon continues it, and Anakin is the decided endgame to that cycle. Qui-Gon DIES for it, Anakin KILLS for it. The circle is now complete." To think that this was all planned from the beginning.
Qui-Gon may have preferred gut instinct over careful planning, but I wouldn't say he was disillusioned with the Jedi. He still respected the Order, it's tenants, and was respected in turn. He just had a different view. Anakin's desire for more power/control and to be exceptional made him chaff against the humility Jedi code asked of him. Leading to him butting heads with some of the more tempered Jedi, and seeking out Palpatine to endorse his actions.
Funny how Darth Maul, General Grievous and Darth Vader wanted revenge against them and Vader beat the other two to killing him. Though inadvertently connecting him to the force.
@@themaccave08 Granted, Obi-Wan LET Vader kill him deliberately. Obi-Wan could theoretically still kick Vader's ass any time he wanted to as a Force Ghost and Vader'd not be able to do anything about it.
Something he didn’t mention, but has always stuck out to me, is the fact that Dooku didn’t reveal Palpatine’s secret despite the fact that he knew he was about die.
“Dooku, cringing, shrinking with dread, still finds some hope in his heart that he is wrong, that Palpatine has not betrayed him, that this has all been proceeding according to plan- Until he hears “Good, Anakin! Good! I knew you could do it!” and registers this is Palpatine’s voice and feels within the darkest depths of all he is the approach of the words that are to come next. “Kill him,” Palpatine says. “Kill him now.” In Skywalker’s eyes he sees only flames. “Chancellor, please!” he gasps, desperate and helpless, his aristocratic demeanor invisible, his courage only a bitter memory. He is reduced to begging for his life, as so many of his victims have. “Please, you promised me immunity! We had a deal! Help me!” And his begging gains him a share of mercy equal to that which he has dispensed. “A deal only if you released me,” Palpatine replies, cold as intergalactic space. “Not if you used me as bait to kill my friends.” And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. Sidious’s plan, not his own. This had been a Jedi trap indeed, but Jedi were not the quarry. They were the bait.” - The Dark Lord Trilogy: Star Wars Legends: Labyrinth of Evil Revenge of the Sith Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (Star Wars - Legends) by James Luceno, Matthew Stover a.co/h6zHlZK
I like to think Grievous's backstory change isn't a retcon. During his reconstruction, his memories where altered to make him think he chose to willingly become a cyborg.
For me personally I think he grew to appreciate the changes and became somewhat obsessed with upgrading himself, as well as somewhat gaslighting himself into thinking it was his idea as a way of perhaps retaining some pride
I'd love it was something like the crash ended up turning him into a 60% machine by necessity, but as time went on he added an extra 20-30% by choice 'cause he liked the first upgrade so much
I’ve believed this for as long as I can remember, which is why I’ve never hated the prequel trilogy like a lotta OG Star Wars fans have proclaimed for years. Anakin Skywalker is fundamentally a good man: intelligent, idealistic, loyal, compassionate and loving. When all of that is twisted by the dark side, you get a hateful, powerful, disillusioned force of nature.
Even then Anakin was still pretty flawed. Arrogant, entitled, and really needed to learn how to let go. I’m not saying he was some kind of monster before his fall but the cracks were always there.
@@VNM-Venom252 To be fair, the Jedi Council have done NOTHING but throw shade at him and make it clear Anakin had no place among the Order because of how HUMAN he was. That's why the Jedi disliked him: he was human. Even before his fall, when Anakin said goodbye to Obi-Wan before he left to find Grievous on Utapau, you can tell Anakin owned up to how much of an asshole he was.
The four horsemen: War: Tyranus, responsible for orchestrating Sidious' planned war against the republic. Famine: Maul, helping keep up the blockade of ships around Naboo, preventing the trade of food and other amenities. Pestilence: Grievous, a coughing, wheezing, hunched creature who requires medical technology to survive. Death: Vader, the ghost of Anakin Skywalker. Lucifer: Sidious, the master of evil.
It should be noted that Satan is not the master of evil, he's just someone who does evil. In the original texts he was even a subject of God to challenge people's faith. If anything, this sounds more like Vader with Sidious being the evil inclination itself. Lucifer was also just a Roman god.
@@hyperion3145 Actually I heard the name Lucifer came from a name for Venus, which was referred to as the Morning Star in the book of Isaiah. Basically it was using astronomical jargon to describe Satan as something divine.
I think grievous is more of famine. A skeletal figurem that brings misery to where he goes. Maul is more pestilence tho. He not only is a spice paddler, but he himself is so plagued with vengeance he self harms to get KENOBIIIIIIIIII
@@hyperion3145 Ironic given your name. Lucifer is the name given to Adam/Eve and their divine child... What Christians call "The Holy trinity". Sidious is the devil. Anakin is Adam/Odin/Zeus/SATURN 👀🤣.
Sidious: Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Vader. Each useful in his own way. Each easy to dispose of once their purpose had reached their end. Luke: The title seems to have expired with my father. I am proud that it was my family that finally put an end to it.
@@MeloeTheLavendeer Well, it wasn't really asthma so much as his lungs were burned with smoke inhalation. As for Grievous, well I guess his ripperdock may have slipped and knicked something during his cyberization.
As an avid Grevious fan, I wish he was represented as a more powerful, intelligent, and skilled fighter and tactician. However the Grevious we got, while not my favorite, plays his role extremely well. I love the 4 armed insecty Bastard.
The line that Maul has in Star Wars Rebels which is "to defeat your enemy you must know your enemy " is literally how Obi Wan was able to stand up to Vader and survive, he knew Anakin since Anakin was just a youngling so that gives him more than enough time to know his tendencies,his tricks,his power and his weaknesses at the time of their incredible battle
I think grevious has more of a connection to Vader then just being a machine. In his backstory, he was a great general and war hero of the Kaleesh people that lead their armies through what seemed like impossible victories. It was thought he had the favor of the gods, like how anakin was the chosen one. Grevious had a lover who was killed in war which he spent the rest of his time grieving, not unlike Vader and padme. And when everything was taken away from him, he was convinced by dooku that it was entirely the Jedi’s fault even though the whole thing was dooku’s plan, which mirrors palpatine getting Vader to blame all his suffering on the Jedi despite it all truly being Palpatines fault.
I never really thought about the villains from this perspective. It's actually a very interesting point of view in my opinion and just goes to show the genius behind the trilogy.
Yeah, the six episodes are supposed to be one big cohesive story, not just two trilogies. Having one main Darth Vader surrogate in the prequels would have seemed too disjointed. With three sub villains in the prequels, Lucas made Palpatine the main villain of the saga.
The contradictions actually enhance the connections Grievous: willing becomes a cyborg to parallel anakin’s lack of agency in that decision Maul: the lack of sympathetic traits to anakin’s Dooku: privilege to anakin’s lack of privilege
The novelization for episode 3 has some incredibly insightful moments. When it comes to the high ground, when Obi-Wan said "it's over," Anakin thought about all the times he'd heard the story of Obi-Wan defeating Maul, despite the high ground, and Obi-Wan recognised it. That's why he said "don't try it," And also when it comes to Dooku vs Skywalker round 2, in the book, Palpatine told Dooku to toy with Anakin, to see if he would even be worthy to take on as an apprentice
Novelization is no longer canon. The current lore still has Anakin attempting to defeat Obi-Wan the same way the latter bested Maul, but Kenobi had it well scouted. Now, Dooku was not instructed to hold back against Anakin. He was legitimately defeated when Anakin tapped into the dark side.
@@thewarner2139 ok that's fair. I wasn't fully sure about that, but I still think it's possible that certain aspects of it could be canon. After all, most legends have some truth in them
I loved Maul's last words and the irony in them. Luke's motivation was never revenge but saving his father. The last one Sidious desired as an apprentice was such a polar opposite to Maul, Dooku and Grievous. He chose to become a Jedi as a young man rather than being taken as a child. He experience loss and pain yet never surrender his moral compass. He looses a limb but never his humanity. The Star Wars universe puts a great emphasis on the notions of both fate and choice. When faced with the same trials as Maul, Dooku and Grievous, Luke makes a different choice even though the parallel style of storytelling would have him only walk the same path, like a cursed fate. Yet even when walking a similar path, he made different choices because there is always a choice. When faced with the same choices as the others before, he made a Bilbo Baggins of himself and chose compassion, courage and mercy. Something Sidious could never understand. The ultimate difference is Luke found something more precious to him than anything Sidious could ever offer. He knew that power cannot give you everything and what he wanted, no amount of power could give him: to save his father. Only love and forgiveness could grant his wish.
Phrasing things this way sort of illuminates something George was trying to say with the prequels. I can see the whole picture now. He meant for the main antagonists of the first 3 episodes to both mirror aspects of Vader but ALSO, and more importantly, he showed Sidious building his plan...picking attributes he wants in a subordinate; Mauls obedience, Dooku's commanding presence, and Grevious' broken mind and body. Sidious' plan worked. He acquired his perfect puppet soldier at the end of Revenge. Brilliant.
It's funny in retrospect that people can piece together a singular argument from each character to form a grand scheme of the creation of Vader, who was already introduced in episodes 4-6...
Grievous represents fear, as deep behind his armoried exterior, battle prowess and bravado he is a coward. Maul represents unthinking, blind hatred, that hampers him down. Dooku representing suffering, as he both willing so sacrifice his life (and lives of others) and reputation for his cause, which he ultimately does. The order is wrong, but stages are the same: Fear, Hatred, Suffering.
@@andreykuzmin4355 Grievous was seriously waaaay too OP in the 2003 Clone Wars. He was literally like the main villain of an anime. He had to be nerfed, otherwise he would’ve absolutely destroyed Obi-Wan.
@@ltb1345 You should read Stackpole's novelization of the III episode. Some epithets Grievous gets in it are awesome, like "Architect of atrocities" or "Durasteel hand (on the Republic's throat)". He had to be nerfed somewhat, but what we gon in Canon continuity is basically a different character. He was deified as Kaleesh god of war for a very good reason. Obi-Wan won only thanks to copious amount of plot armor and defensive Soresu form, plus mental clarity.
There's a scene in the Vader comics where Boba Fett tells Vader the name of the rebel pilot who blew up the Death Star, and Vader figures out who Luke's mother is, and calls up the Emperor who is like "wow I can feel your anger all the way across the galaxy, what's up?"
In canon, Grievous' hate for the jedi is parallel to Anakin's hate for Tuskin Raiders. Both killed people who meant a lot to them (Anakin's mom and Grievous' friends and family). Grievous' hate for the Huk (opposing species that has tormented his people) is also parallel to Anakin. Anakin wanted to save Padme and Grievous only wanted to save his people. In canon, Grievous also chose the cybernetics because he saw the remaining parts of his body useless.
It’s also really interesting how Maul, Dooku, and Grevious’ injuries parallel those that Anakin suffered. Maul lost his legs, Dooku his hands, and Grevious was set ablaze. In the end, Anakin had no natural limbs and was burned beyond belief. I don’t know if this was intentional or not but it’s certainly interesting to think about
You complain about grievous not being that intimidating, but if his legends/ 2D counterpart showed up, then no one would have made it out of the ship in episode 3 alive
@@Erolsaurus well we never saw Grievous kidnapping Palpatine in canon so you could have a headcanon that most of what happens in clone wars 2003 actually happened
Something to mention about Grevious: the lightsabers and fighting style is meant to create intimidation and fear to negate a Jedi’s ability to focus on the Force. Obi-Wan was able to defeat him because he didn’t fear Grevious, he knew what he was. Vader certainly knows something about intimidation
Grevious is the most intimidating, but he's just a cat making himself look bigger than he is Vader then goes on to be 10 times more frightening, and is able to deliver every part of it
What’s an additionally intestinal parallel is that Dooku makes both Anakin and Grevious robotic. Then Obi-Wan de-limbs both of them as they combust in fire. Very subtle, maybe even unintentional parallel. But very cool. Great video!
Who would have thought that after the stigma of ‘just being cash-grabs’ the prequels true thematic deepness and epic genius starts to be realised. I know the other SW content undoubtedly expanded on that genius but the groundwork was set down by Lucas. Fantastic video Full-Fat, looking forward to more.
They still have a kind of awkward execution in the movies at times but the backstories and thematic appeal provide so many hours of intrigue and entertainment and I’m really glad they exist.
I don't think Jake Lloyd counts; he was only ever Anakin. Hayden Christensen was Anakin when he turned, the black mask was Vader when he returned. Where is the third face? . . . . . . . . Melted on a hillside on Mustafar. I was going to say Sebastian Shaw, but by the time he took the helmet off, it wasn't Vader anymore.
I like your take on all 3 "proto Vaders" for Obi Wan. Obi Wan was being prepared to face Darth Vader his whole life by facing these "faces", he just didn't know it.
The problem was the execution, aged CGI, and the bad dialogue. There was so many great things that could be seen in the story from the symbolisms and very subtle foreshadowing.
@@vashythewabbit8288 While the Sequels are the inverse of this. Everyone on those movies were bringing there A game, except for the script department which for Star Wars was the most important part to nail
@@vashythewabbit8288 The dialogue really wasn’t that bad, especially when compared to that of the “Sequels”. Practical effects also don’t look as life-like as people say they do anymore, especially people wearing alien costumes (see the aliens in the “Sequels”).
@@coolgreenbug7551 Except arguably The Last Jedi, which suffered from this weird problem where the director was able to thematically tap into Star Wars really well, but wasn't able to write the Star Wars Galaxy as a universe, and also had a weak as fuck premise to work off of. Characters tend to lack continuity between it and the previous films, established rules in the universe are broken in frustrating ways, and established pieces of lore are disregarded in favor of clumsier solutions, but at its core, it thematically continues the track that the Prequels and Original Trilogy made. The OT established the Jedi as an unquestioned good, and the Empire as a villain who just needed to be shot to death, the Prequels (tried to) questioned that narrative and disillusioned us with the Jedi Order. Rey, in TLJ, represents the OS, while Luke represents the Prequels, and at the core that's a really compelling conflict that ends in a realization which builds into something great for the conclusion of the series, but then Ryan forgot what universe he was writing for and got distracted with unnecessary side-plots.
The prequel expanded lore is unrivaled and unparalleled genius. The prequel movies were meh. Thank the Force there are good writers who love Star Wars.
@TheSovietOnion l I don’t know, you’ll have to give an example. I feel the dialogue has done its part and generated a fair amount of meme material. In my eyes the dialogue is practically the sacred text itself.
I like to think there are two parts to Anakin's character: the slave and the hero. He starts out a slave then, thinking he earned his freedom, becomes a slave to the jedi order. He then helps destroy the jedi only to become a slave to Sidious. As the hero, the first time we see him he is defending jar jar. Then saves the naboo fighters by taking out the droid control ship. Throughout Anakin's time as a jedi he is constantly trying to save people, always willing to put himself in harm's way to do it. He only turned to the dark side because Sideous manipulated his desire to save Padme. In the end, he finally gets to overthrow his master (literally) and enjoy a moment of freedom to see his son before the end. This does also explain why he is so frustrated with not being given the rank of master. It would, in his mind, be the end to his servitude. He'd finally be able to act freely, he would have no master. And since he was given a seat (by sideous) but not the rank of master, dispite not seeing any reason why he shouldn't be, he remained a slave. Of course this wouldn't have freed him from the dogma of the jedi but this is how Anakin would have seen it.
There is nothing cowardly about Greivious in ROTS, I don't know where you got that idea from. Escaping a hopeless situation does not make one a coward. Especially since his first escape very nearly kills Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine himself.
It sucks how much Grievous’s character gets treated in canon. I’m not saying I wanna op 2003 version I just want a competent intimidating badass who can kill Jedi.
@Mackenzie Bauroth: It should start on Ka'lee, with him being shown as the incredible sniper and great leader his people saw him as. They see him as a demigod, catering to his every whim. Eventually, he would have a dream of a warrior slaying a great beast. He would go to kill it, only to find the warrior from his dream is not him, but a female warrior. The two would slay the beast, and then become lovers. He would eventually go to war with the Huk, as they have desecrated ancient Ka'leesh burial grounds. In time, his lover would suffer a horrific death at the hands of the Huk, causing him to change his name to "Grievous", as it is the only way to express his pain. Afterwards, he would lead a major offense against his enemy, who in their cowardice, run to the Republic and the Jedi. The Republic forces the Ka'leesh back to their home planet, and blockades it, causing mass starvation of innocent Ka'leesh people. Grievous would attempt to have the blockade removed, but to no avail. Eventually, the Huk would once again destroy Ka'leesh burial grounds. Grievous, with the approval of the tribes elders and many of his best warriors, would set out in a rickety rustbucket ship to cease their assault. The ship would unfortunately be sabotaged by a traitor hired by Dooku, causing to explode over the ocean. Dooku would then arrive in the night in a risky bid to capture Grievous' body. Grievous would be held in a bacta tank by Dooku, with the Count giving him a choice: Die dishonorable in a bacta tank and his people will die, or become a cyborg and Dooku's right-hand man, with the blockade being removed, allowing Grievous' people to thrive once again. Grievous would obviously choose the latter. The movie would then move to a live-action, more grounded Battle of Hypori, with Grievous slaughtering clones and his forces closing in. He would then fight three jedi at once, killing them all. Afterwards, he would be approached by Dooku who would scold him and tell him to be less destructive, for Palpatines plan is not yet ready. Grievous would begrudgingly comply. The film would then have Grievous' own voice monologuing over his parts in Episode 3, and only finishes at his own death. The film would then show a small, dark control room dimly lit by glowing green screens. It would then follow a large, cloaked figure arising and walking down many pitch-black halls It stops at a massive room lit by hundreds of bacta tanks, each with an abominable double of Grievous inside. Stolen organs, cybernetics, and control chips make up the "clones", each one requiring manual control from the general himself through a computer. The real Grievous would then exit his base, revealing his new and improved droid army. The time has come for the Ka'leesh to rise. Dooku and Palpatine wanted a monster, and the entire galaxy was given one.
I really like Grievous from the 2D Clone Wars, being a Badass cyborg who fought many Jedi masters, even struck fear into their hearts. Too bad he’s not like that in Episode 3 and CGI Clone Wars. Despite that, he’s more useful than the Knights of Ren😄
God 2D CW Grievous was a beast, i remember being so hyped as kid when i found out he was going to be in Episode III so yeah i was very very underwhelmed with his scenes in the film.
@@397llederson6 Did he need one? He's a Jedi hunter who Jedi fear, that's all we need on him. Before the CG Clone Wars gave Maul an insane amount of depth he had little to no personality in E1 yet he was still widely regarded as one of the better things in the prequel Trilogy because of look, presence and actions. Grievous actions in the Clone Wars mini series made him great, he could take on many Jedi with ease yet wasn't OP as Jedi Masters could hold their own with Mace outright one shotting with a force crush. In the film though he's this coughing coward who doesn't stand a chance against Obi-Wan, considering at that point in time many of us have just watched him slay Jedi and move at extreme speed in the 2D Clone Wars it was annoying and jarring to see the film version be almost nothing like that version.
"There can only two, a master and his apprentice." The master will be killed by the apprentice, to establish himself. Sidious circumvented this, by choosing a new apprentice every 10 years. Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Vader. Only that Starkiller failed, as did Luke, allowing Vader to kill Sidious therefor fulfilling the prophecy. As Vader was the last Sith alive at the time, he ended both Jedi and Sith, then and there.
Greivious wasn't trained by Sidious, not a Sith and was around since at least The Battle of Geonosis. He was only trained with lightsabers by Dooku to kill Jedi and had no force potential, relying strictly on fear, his mechanical body, and above average fighting prowess, but primarily fear. I'm also fairly certain Dooku left the Jedi shortly before or after Jinn's death; Palpatine showed Dooku a hologram of Jinn's death to Maul...in a twisted way to coerce him to the dark side. Starkiller and TFU was never canon to the series either, just saying
If we look at Grievous’s origins in canon it kinda makes him and Anakin a bit similar. Basically Grievous wanted to become a Jedi and was denied because he wasn’t force sensitive enough. This really bruised Grievous’s ego and led him down the path of becoming the cyborg jedi killer we all know of. Now let’s look at Anakin, one of his biggest flaws was his arrogance and when he got denied the master rank by the Jedi council it bruised his ego and helped push him down the path of becoming Vader.
To be fair, it wasn’t primarily his bruised ego (although that didn’t help…) He wanted the rank of Jedi master so that he could get into the restricted section of the archives to find a way to save Padmé - at the end of it all, he chose the way of the Sith because at least they promised him a way to save her where the Jedi denied him that knowledge.
That's a thing a lot of Anakin defenders forget. He had loads of personal flaws and refused to address them. A desire for power and authority, to force people to act the way he thought was right. Insecurity, and possessiveness over his loved ones. A lack of dedication to Jedi work ethics. And a highly aggressive disposition. It's these things and his own desperation that made him turn. Not the Jedi, they where his and Sidious' victims. Also I don't think the Jedi are bothered about how strong one is or isn't with the force. Just their character. So I don't know if that book is accurate. Some authors tended to go overboard with their personal interpretations, rather then maintaining consistent character depictions. Cough! Karen Traviss sucks. Cough!
For me the thumbnail speaks volumes The 3 faces of Vader: Maul: Anakin rage and frustration Dooku: His pride, Overconfidence and narcissism Then Grievous: He obsessive nature and possibly even a hint of cowardice
@@cristiansaucedo4707 More like for all of his cyber enhancements and lightsaber skills, he still cannot match the raw might of the force, just like Grievous.
@@revan552 Trumpcicle, at the top of this thread, is the original poster. For his cowardice, I am referring to his inability to face Darth Sidious on his own. Yes, I understand he analyzed himself as being less powerful than DS, but I believe he wasn't all that brave about that knowledge either. Darth Vader ends up representing love but not purely love: more like thinking about himself and when he saw his son would die and there was nothing else he could do, after 20 years of planning, he sacrificed himself for his son.
I never thought of it like this. But it makes sense. They reflect Anakin's gradual fall and progression to the dark side. Great video man. Keep em coming.
I think this works most on a personality level, Maul being hate and anger, Dooku being arrogance and the feeling of superiority and grievous being the lust for destruction. But an interesting idea, never thought if that
As much as I love maul. I don't think this would work on paper unfortunately. I think a good idea would have been to have a completely new character (sort of like what they tried with snoke) but don't kill them in the second movie...
The good old fashioned remain hidden while building up an empire through corruption. The thing that did in fact start in TCW... Until he got himself busted by both Palpatine and the Jedi.
Do people really not realize this? Feel like I've known this since my childhood watching the prequels. That the three main villains each represent different parts of Vader that all add up to make the super villain that is Darth Vader. Thought it was just one of those... obvious things.
Disney changed the canon so that Dooku had already left the Order before Qui-Gon died. Heck, Dooku was even interested in the Dark Side back when Qui-Gon was his Padawan. He even used Force Lightning to save Qui-Gon. Source: Master and Apprentice by Claudia Grey. Not sure which version of Dooku's fall I prefer. Both are interesting.
Unfortunately that is not canon. It never happened. Disney erased it. Which means movie and 2008 clnoe wars grievous are all we have and they both suck. He never kill anyone aside from some padawans and a gungan.
@@Bmedeiros-youtube yeah but he never really killed anyone aside from the 2 I mentioned. He is cowardly and I think he deserved more exciting appearances.
It just goes to show how tightly woven the Prequels were with the OT. It truly is a shame how the Sequels are so disjointed and disconnected from the rest.
Man, this is some fantastic content that I as a Dooku fan particularly appreciate. Makes me nostalgic for my essay writing days in my last year of college. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
I always love seeing people acknowledging how good the prequels actually are, certain scenes such as the "nooooooo" scene at the end of revenge of the sith are often seen as bad, despite making sense and in my opinion at least, being really good
This makes me have even more appreciation for the prequels. The fact that all the main enemies symbolize part of Anakin’s eventual fall to the dark side as Darth Vader is incredible. George definitely needs to get more credit for this.
I think grievous upgrading himself throughout the the clonewars makes sense and still connects to Vader. They both became machine by someone else's hand, however they show the two sides of that concept. Vader elected to keep as much of himself as he could, while grievous decided to give himself up to the machine
They did Grievous dirty in the live action, in the Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003 TV series) he was a total badass and actually kind of scary. Wish they made him like that in the live action but oh well, great video.
Tbf, the 2003 Grievous was the result of miscommunication on how Grievous is supposed to be portrayed while ROTS Grievous is supposed to be the actual portrayal. As much as I liked 2003 Grievous, they need to go with the original intention that was released in live action. But i do like how the comics is trying to mix the 2003 Grievous and ROTS Grievous by having him kill Talzin and 2 Jedi without any help or dirty tricks and hinted about his backstory as similar to the Legends story.
True story: I loved that show as a kid so going to see Revenge of the sith in the theatre I was psyched especially for grievous.... when he was little more than a Saturday morning cartoon villain at 11 years old I out loud said “the fuck is this?”
To be fair. In the clone wars. Grievous was the face of the separatists. Being an amazing tactical genius and feared pilot. A such as Vader. Grievous also beat obi wan and other masters in cannon.
I always did have a similar idea idea that the three villains were essentially prototypes for Sidious' ultimate apprentice and pawn. Vader's predecessors being heightened aspects of himself. Maul the fiery and savage monster, Dooku the cold and sophisticated fallen Jedi and Grievous, the machine. Interesting choices by Lucas.
I feel that, in a way, Aniken's loss of his best friend Obi Wan made him fall further into the dark side. Not when be killed him, but when they became enemies.
Me: "Gee, it's 3 AM and I have class at 8 AM, I should probably go to slee-" Full Fat Videos: *Uploads a 30 minute video* Me: Me: " *Well, hello there* "
Here is another similarity between Maul & Vader; Maul was also presented with a family and people but they where taken away. A brother in Savage but Maul just used him as a Sith apprentice and taken away by Sheev Palpatine/Sidious. A mother in Talzin but before he got close Grievous killed her. A species that was loyal to him in the Dathomirian Zabrak Nightbrothers but Dooku/Tyranus commit genocide against them. 2 factions in the Shadow Collective & Crimson Dawn but the 1st 1 got destroyed by Ahsoka & the other got destroyed too but it's unknown how. Anakin Skywalker/Vader had a family and people that where taken away. A mother in Shmi but taken away by the Tuskin Raiders. A step-brother in Owen Lars that he didn't care for and lest him. A wife in Padmé Amidala but taken away through death by his own hand. Then twin children he didn't knew before he was lost. A son in Luke who saved him. A daughter he never knew but unknowingly met. He was given 2 factions in the Republic & Empire which both made him loose it.
@@modmaker7617 well, good thing is that so far Disney hasn't touched Grievous' backstory at all so far. The closest thing we got was a Grievous comic book that revealed what he looked like before he turned into a cyborg and hinted at his Legends backstory when it said that he was lying to himself that he turned himself into a cyborg.
@@vashythewabbit8288 At no point was he lying about saying he chose to upgrade himself. He mentioned it in TCW as well. The Force itself even tells Grievous that he was a fool for choosing to undergo the operation because it prevents him from being able to understand the greater powers of the universe.
With Greivous, I personally like to believe that he was "saved" by Dooku but once he already had the body he began enhancing it himself so his true weakness wasn't showing at full force.
This is a fantastic interpretation of the three villains of the prequels! I thank you for your broadcasting of this perspective, and the people on Reddit you referenced for coming up with the idea!
I find that you’re focusing on movie and 2008 Grevious instead of the 2003 Grevious which resembles more Darth Vader. He is more fearsome in there compared to the other two. I find Genndy understood what Grevious is supposed to be where as George ended up contradicting himself on what he said vs what he showed on screen Other than that this is a great and well analyzed video of Darth Vader. I always enjoy your Star Wars videos. Keep up the good work. .
Awesome analysis, specially when combining it with Samuel's music. Towards the "contradiction" between EP III and TCW about Grievous cybernetics, this could be easily reconciliated by saying that, although Grievous was not exactly awake after the accident the CIS provoked on him, he eventually came to just accept and like his cybernetics. We have to remind that even if he had to receive the cybernetics in any form or way, one can just change opinions at any time. Another explanation was that he just told that as masquerade to hide the truth, a truth he didn't wanted to accept or tell to anyone.
If he had gone into the stuff from other versions of the character it probably could've been taken more seriously. Especially since Grievous is the name he took after the death of his lover/spouse and not long after adopting this new moniker/identity nearly dies and is revived as a cyborg. Very much like Anakin who becomes Darth Vader then a cyborg after his wife "dies" and a process that began out of fear for her death.
Seeing the final blow on Anakin back to back with the final blow on Maul with the audio overlaid REALLY drives home the point that Anakin really thought he could overpower Obi-Wan like that. He really thought the fight was over. I just want to add that your use of music, and subtle flourishes in your audio is heavenly. Absolutely astounding production value.
Why are people so hang up to Grievous in Clone Wars 2003 when the version in Revenge of the Sith is the default? Closer to his default (which is the Revenge of the Sith) is Clone Wars 2008 version. Yes I just praised the Grievous from TCW08 because it was closer to ROTS the default then the OP CW03 counterpart that officially didn't exist in-universe.
This is just fantastic. Kudos FFV. How I wish Spielberg agreed to direct so that the prequels got the execution they deserved, because there's no question that they truly run deeply and powerfully.
"Grievous has little real skill" Yes unfortunately that is canon grievous. But... My friend... Have you ever heard the tragity of 2003 general grievous? It's not a story canon would tell you...
Maul - The Past - Born into a life a servitude and groomed for a single purpose, but armed with the unshakable belief he is meant for greater things. Dooku - The Present - Disillusioned with the Jedi Order and frustrated with the Republic, eager to enforce a new, better order on the Galaxy. Grievous - The Future - A twisted carcass. A shadow of the great warrior he once was. More machine than man.
Canon Grievous is actually a lot more of an interesting character and not just a Darth Vader clone. Don’t get me wrong I love Grevious 2003 but Canon Grievous is still badass
@@mineturtleanimations2988 Stop lying to yourself. I guess he is kinda cool in battlefront 2 if you know how to use him and in the books but he still sucks. He is supposed to be a jedi killer but the only (onscreen) jedi he killed was a recently promoted padawan who only just became a knight. I know he killed captain tarpals as well but he is a gungan soooooo yeah. He also got his butt kickd by sid gungans so he may be interesting but he still sucks. Except from the legends books and cartoon. That is the real grievous.
@@mineturtleanimations2988 bruh he isnt interesting at all he is literally a giant coward who only fights when he has the clear and obvious advantage or if he absolutely had to. Meanwhile the chad 03 Grievous makes his arms stop fireing so he could go in and personally murder each jedi
@@GlobalOutcast Canon grievous is 10x more entertaining and unique than 2003 grievous' boring ass generic mustache twirling villain voice. The fact that y'all value pure strength over how interesting a character actually is ridiculous. Pretty shallow, even. I bet if the 2003 clones were super overpowered dark trooper tier characters, you'd say the same shit, even if the 2008 clones had actual character aside from being killing machines.
@@sarahbelle81 im sorry dude but you so clearly dont know what you are talking about, trying to seriously compare clone wars to The clone wars is not only stupid but doesn't make sense. One is a 7 season series with 20+ minute eps that went on for years. The other was a mini series where all eps but the last season were only 3 minutes long, and the third seasons eps where only 12 mins and only ran after the release eps2 and ended before release 3. Trying to hold them to the same standard is simply silly and an incorrect approach
“Between fighting Maul, Dooku, and Greivous, Kenobi has been trained to fight Anakin Skywalker his whole life.”
_Damn..._ mind blown
That's a good way to look at it
It also didn't hurt that he was the one who trained Anakin in the first place; and that Anakin final move was the same move Obi-wan used on Maul in TPM.
Makes perfectly good sense
crazy
*Who are you? Who are you so wise in the ways of writing?*
Think about what happened to them before they died, Maul loses his legs, Dooku loses his hands, and Grievous burns alive. Obi Wan cuts his legs off, cuts his remaining hand off and lets him burn.
This solidifies the theory for me.
Oof
Damn
Obi-wan, destroyer of worlds, and Vader maker.
@@tr0n4556 all hail space Jesus
I have to say, it’s so refreshing to just listen to a fan who unironically enjoys the prequels. There’s too much negativity out there and it’s fun to just listen to someone enjoy stuff.
Agreed. They're flawed, for sure, and I have my own issues with them, but I do think they're WAY overly hated. Personally, I never had that much of a problem with them.
@@artsman412 Since the Sequel trilogy came out, people's distaste for the prequels have cooled, it seems. I'd always been a fan of Star Wars my whole life, I love the prequels as much as the original trilogy, hell, I even can see the merits in the sequel trilogy too, but then trying to explain my views just gets me shouted down by everyone. I've given up on trying to help others turn their thinking around regarding the sequels. Its like back in the days when everyone hated the prequels.
People like the prequels now, but holy shit is there so much sequel hate. Every single Star Wars comment section is full of toxicity, even when it’s totally unrelated or uncalled for.
@@treytonjohnson1 Indeed
@@treytonjohnson1 Agreed. Are they flawed? Sure, but that's because they swapped directors and tone halfway through. Are they bad though? Not really. As I said before, each film has its merits.
Count dooku is easily one of the most under-utilised and underrated villains of the franchise, RIP Christopher Lee
I’ve been saying that for years
Rip to a legend
I disagree with you: Count Dooku is overrated. He is not that powerful compared to other sith from the Old Republic. But some fans treat him like he is. He is cool, sofisticated and menacing. They made a good job in the Clone Wars and in the movies. But again, i don't think he is underrated.
@@diogocruz21 The Old Republic sith aren't canon anymore and they're quite op. Most of the Old Republic sith were unbelievably strong that the sith of the prequels and originals were no were near them.
@@diogocruz21 There were thousands of Sith during the Old Republic. Only a handful of them were more powerful than Dooku and even fewer were as good as him in lightsaber duels.
@@amanimckenzie32 unfortunately yes.
I love how Anakin and Obi-Wan are always connected even in their enemies, including Dooku.
Maul despised Obi-Wan as his arch-nemesis, the one who crippled him, just like Vader.
Dooku respected Obi-Wan as a true Jedi and worthy opponent, the same way Vader viewed Obi-Wan even with his own hatred of him and only he was allowed to defeat him.
Grievous saw Obi-Wan as the grand prize, whose defeat will prove to himself how powerful he really is, just like Vader wanting to finally prove that he is the strongest Force user to ever live.
Underrated comment. ❤
It's comments like these that help unravel the workings of star wars as George has riddled about it's depth in the past
Connected as in Weequay pirates?
Like I said in the comment above, if things would of taken a different turn. Obi Wan would of surpassed both Yoda and Mace in power and sheer skill. Him and Anakin where the Calvary of the Jedi, they could clear a whole battlefield themselves. Dooku had so much admiration and respect for Obi Wan because Obi Wan was trained by Qui Gon, making Obi Wan some sort of a grandchild to Dooku. Since he’s teaching where passed in to Obi Wan by Qui Gon.
Anakin saw Obi Wan as he’s father, brother, he everything. Second only To Padme. Even though Anakin is the chosen one, Obi Wan is the only one to Rival him and be his equal, it’s no wonder Vader sees no one but Obi Wan worthy to be the one to defeat him. The only one to give him the battle he craves.
Maul is what Joker is to Batman, Obi Wan humiliated him practically countless times.
When it comes to Grevious, it’s like Kakashi Hatake when he died in Naruto Shippuden. Everyone was in shock and almost dropped in dispair when Kakashi was killed by Pain. It was a huge blow to the moral and a huge blow to their hopeful outlook in battle: Kakashi was practically a one man army, to be taken out cause a massive shake in the psychosis not only in the mind of every Leaf Shinobi, but also Lady Stunade and Naruto himself. The same can be said with Grevious wanting Obi Wans head, he knew that killing Obi Wan would be a massive blow to the Jedi, especially to Anakin, hell Anakin would probably succumb to depression if Grevious ever managed to kill Obi Wan, the blow would definately affect all of the Jedi as a whole
We forget how pivotal Obi Wan was and is during the clone wars and rise of the sith. Hell even Sidious feared Obi Wan as much as he did with Dooku.
Darth Maul: A Sith Lord that is full of hatred and has an iconic look
Darth Tyranus: A fallen Jedi that fell to the dark side
Grievous: Tall, Jedi killing Cyborg
Darth Vader: All three
And what all three prequel characters and Darth Vader have I common? They're all badasses
He also got Grevious’s asthma
@@rundownpear2601 lol I should've added that
Full fat video revision note right here
Kylo: basically the weenie hut jr version lol
“It’s like poetry, they rhyme” -George Lucas
"It's Poetry Time George, It's time to make things Rhyme"
fuck...beat me to it
For george it was... Unfortunately for people like Ryan Johnson, all star wars was, was subverting expectations. 🤦
@@seanmcmullen4274 same
that line makes the most sense in context, please watch th-cam.com/video/k7ZW1gtCljs/w-d-xo.html
George Lucas: *creates paralels between three villains to create the ultimate one*
Disney: I don't know. Ressurect Palpatine or something.
🤣🤣🤣
*Dew it*
“Have Han Solo’s son wear an outfit that looks very similar to Vader, the toys will sell like crazy!”
OOOF
@GOLDBOND vs BALLS In the books palpatine was brought back but it was a contained incident and was not a pivotal event in the EU unlike in the sequels
I love the appreciation for Christopher Lee as Count Dooku in this video. He really isn't given enough credit for making Dooku as badass and elegant as he is. Rest in Peace the absolute legend.
@GOLDBOND vs BALLS Geez, chill the fuck out bro. Compared to Ian Mcdiarmid, Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson etc. I rarely hear people praise Christopher Lee for his role in the prequels. That doesn't mean he doesn't receive praise. Who put your balls in some vice grips?
Heard that apparently Dooku was initially meant to beg for his life but Lee objected too it saying. It didn’t make sense for his character.
Which I like since it makes Dooku realized he was nothing but a palm to Palpatine. Where if he was begging not to die comes across as a sore loser
Yes, it does help my ego...
@@MandatoryFruit you calm down jeeze
@@JohnWilliams-wl9px Lee also replaced Qui-Gon with ‘Peter’ in his script, so that when he rehearsed his lines he could channel the grief he was still feeling from losing Peter Cushing. When he says, “I wish he were still alive. I could use his help right now,” he *meant* it.
These villains also represent what made Vader behind the scenes. Maul is played by martial artist Ray Park, an almost entirely physical portrayal that was later overdubbed. Maul wouldn't be anything like himself without the contributions of Park, who with little dialogue had to create a complete character that walks and moves and acts like the ultimate badass, just like David Prowse.
Dooku is played by the well spoken veteran actor Sir Christopher Lee. Due to Lee's age, Dooku is a very vocal character, he is reserved, calm and often speaking during his fight sequences. His stature is almost completely verbal instead of relying physicality, just like James Earl Jones contributions to the character of Darth Vader.
Then you have Grevious, the completely artificial, CGI character. Grievous is the least human of them all, his body being artificial in the world of the film as well as the real world. He is the suit that defines Vaders look, but he's also the final contribution to the character, Ben Burtt. Burtt used technology to give us Vaders most iconic sound, using a scuba mask and a tape machine to produce the sound of Vaders breathing
This comment deserves to be on top
This is genius
fantastically put.
Well said, sir.
Quoting another legendary character, you're god**** right.
"If Dooku marks the start of a chain of disillusionment with the Jedi way of thinking, Qui-Gon continues it, and Anakin is the decided endgame to that cycle. Qui-Gon DIES for it, Anakin KILLS for it. The circle is now complete."
To think that this was all planned from the beginning.
Wow, planning out your stories. What a novel concept, eh Disney?
Qui-Gon may have preferred gut instinct over careful planning, but I wouldn't say he was disillusioned with the Jedi. He still respected the Order, it's tenants, and was respected in turn. He just had a different view.
Anakin's desire for more power/control and to be exceptional made him chaff against the humility Jedi code asked of him. Leading to him butting heads with some of the more tempered Jedi, and seeking out Palpatine to endorse his actions.
It’s like poetry
It wasn't planned you stupid, son of a-
Those kinds of specifics werent planned, just the broad strokes of the saga
“A milk machine like General Kenobi.” Never heard this description before, but it is SOO accurate. 😂😂
I would let general kenobi milk me
I had to play it back!
Funny how Darth Maul, General Grievous and Darth Vader wanted revenge against them and Vader beat the other two to killing him. Though inadvertently connecting him to the force.
@@themaccave08 Granted, Obi-Wan LET Vader kill him deliberately. Obi-Wan could theoretically still kick Vader's ass any time he wanted to as a Force Ghost and Vader'd not be able to do anything about it.
@@danmenard6917 not unless I die.
Oh Dooku, George Lucas definitely didn't use you enough in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith
@Tom Ffrench good point. But I still prefer him over Maul.
Can we just set for the record how unnecessary Episode 1 was outside of Maul?
Fortunately, Clone Wars did.
Watch deleted scenes, they are quite interesting.
@@sharpspoon7371 Eh, I appreciated Qui Gon too lol
Something he didn’t mention, but has always stuck out to me, is the fact that Dooku didn’t reveal Palpatine’s secret despite the fact that he knew he was about die.
Was he too honourable - or too scared?
@@FullFatVideos there is a theory that sidious was keeping dooku's mouth shut with the force before he was decapitated
@@sks.56 I believe the canon explanation is that Dooku thought it was all part of the plan up until he got his head cut off
Nah he was originally supposed to, but they edited it out
“Dooku, cringing, shrinking with dread, still finds some hope in his heart that he is wrong, that Palpatine has not betrayed him, that this has all been proceeding according to plan-
Until he hears “Good, Anakin! Good! I knew you could do it!” and registers this is Palpatine’s voice and feels within the darkest depths of all he is the approach of the words that are to come next.
“Kill him,” Palpatine says. “Kill him now.” In Skywalker’s eyes he sees only flames. “Chancellor, please!” he gasps, desperate and helpless, his aristocratic demeanor invisible, his courage only a bitter memory. He is reduced to begging for his life, as so many of his victims have. “Please, you promised me immunity! We had a deal! Help me!”
And his begging gains him a share of mercy equal to that which he has dispensed.
“A deal only if you released me,” Palpatine replies, cold as intergalactic space. “Not if you used me as bait to kill my friends.”
And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. Sidious’s plan, not his own. This had been a Jedi trap indeed, but Jedi were not the quarry. They were the bait.”
- The Dark Lord Trilogy: Star Wars Legends: Labyrinth of Evil Revenge of the Sith Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (Star Wars - Legends) by James Luceno, Matthew Stover
a.co/h6zHlZK
I like to think Grievous's backstory change isn't a retcon. During his reconstruction, his memories where altered to make him think he chose to willingly become a cyborg.
Ooo I like that. That saves his canon story.
idk i dont remember honestly
For me personally I think he grew to appreciate the changes and became somewhat obsessed with upgrading himself, as well as somewhat gaslighting himself into thinking it was his idea as a way of perhaps retaining some pride
@@tracytron7162 I prefer this idea more then “Oh he got brainwashed”
I'd love it was something like the crash ended up turning him into a 60% machine by necessity, but as time went on he added an extra 20-30% by choice 'cause he liked the first upgrade so much
“In a manner of speaking?” More like “from a certain point of view.”
THANK YOU! Such a missed opportunity.
I just commented the exact same thing 😂 glad it wasn't just me.
@@alexbg9658 I started to throw in a "So uncivilized.", but managed to resist .
I was about to comment the same thing when I saw this.
You are correct, from a certain point of view.
I’ve believed this for as long as I can remember, which is why I’ve never hated the prequel trilogy like a lotta OG Star Wars fans have proclaimed for years. Anakin Skywalker is fundamentally a good man: intelligent, idealistic, loyal, compassionate and loving. When all of that is twisted by the dark side, you get a hateful, powerful, disillusioned force of nature.
That's always been his tragedy since the reveal in Empire. He was a good man who turned bad and gave into his worst self.
Even then Anakin was still pretty flawed. Arrogant, entitled, and really needed to learn how to let go. I’m not saying he was some kind of monster before his fall but the cracks were always there.
@@VNM-Venom252 To be fair, the Jedi Council have done NOTHING but throw shade at him and make it clear Anakin had no place among the Order because of how HUMAN he was. That's why the Jedi disliked him: he was human. Even before his fall, when Anakin said goodbye to Obi-Wan before he left to find Grievous on Utapau, you can tell Anakin owned up to how much of an asshole he was.
BOINK!
Imma force of nature.
BONK!
If you were from where I was from, you'd be f*cking dead.
@@EricGraham94 The Prequel era Jedi Council needed Revan.🙏
The four horsemen:
War: Tyranus, responsible for orchestrating Sidious' planned war against the republic.
Famine: Maul, helping keep up the blockade of ships around Naboo, preventing the trade of food and other amenities.
Pestilence: Grievous, a coughing, wheezing, hunched creature who requires medical technology to survive.
Death: Vader, the ghost of Anakin Skywalker.
Lucifer: Sidious, the master of evil.
It should be noted that Satan is not the master of evil, he's just someone who does evil. In the original texts he was even a subject of God to challenge people's faith. If anything, this sounds more like Vader with Sidious being the evil inclination itself.
Lucifer was also just a Roman god.
@@hyperion3145 Actually I heard the name Lucifer came from a name for Venus, which was referred to as the Morning Star in the book of Isaiah. Basically it was using astronomical jargon to describe Satan as something divine.
Castellan of Gundabad i disagree. Lucifer was once an angel. Sidious is death and anakin is lucifer
I think grievous is more of famine. A skeletal figurem that brings misery to where he goes. Maul is more pestilence tho. He not only is a spice paddler, but he himself is so plagued with vengeance he self harms to get KENOBIIIIIIIIII
@@hyperion3145 Ironic given your name. Lucifer is the name given to Adam/Eve and their divine child... What Christians call "The Holy trinity". Sidious is the devil. Anakin is Adam/Odin/Zeus/SATURN 👀🤣.
Maul: Dark Enforcer.
Dooku: Fallen Jedi.
Grievous: Cyborg Warrior.
Darth Vader, all of the above.
True
Sidious: Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Vader. Each useful in his own way. Each easy to dispose of once their purpose had reached their end.
Luke: The title seems to have expired with my father. I am proud that it was my family that finally put an end to it.
did you forget about asthma attacks?
@@MeloeTheLavendeer Well, it wasn't really asthma so much as his lungs were burned with smoke inhalation. As for Grievous, well I guess his ripperdock may have slipped and knicked something during his cyberization.
@@Avenger85438 thanks i didnt know that (:
As an avid Grevious fan, I wish he was represented as a more powerful, intelligent, and skilled fighter and tactician. However the Grevious we got, while not my favorite, plays his role extremely well. I love the 4 armed insecty Bastard.
Hello there
He was that in 2D Vintage Star Wars the Clone Wars
you will really enjoy the clone wars, they show him a lot more in the series than the movie
@@MeloeTheLavendeer General Kenobi
I agree just like how he was in the 2003 clone wars
Me; doing homework
Full Fat videos; the three faces of Darth Vader
Me; the negotiations were short
The homework: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!
Cant believe the prequel memes are still relevant lol
@@nabongobong9155 a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
23 minutes are short?
@@eightnickel1513 he said negotiations not the video
The line that Maul has in Star Wars Rebels which is "to defeat your enemy you must know your enemy " is literally how Obi Wan was able to stand up to Vader and survive, he knew Anakin since Anakin was just a youngling so that gives him more than enough time to know his tendencies,his tricks,his power and his weaknesses at the time of their incredible battle
one connection you missed between grievous and vader was how the loss of his wife motivates just about everything he does.
yeah
Oh I forgot about that
I think grevious has more of a connection to Vader then just being a machine. In his backstory, he was a great general and war hero of the Kaleesh people that lead their armies through what seemed like impossible victories. It was thought he had the favor of the gods, like how anakin was the chosen one. Grevious had a lover who was killed in war which he spent the rest of his time grieving, not unlike Vader and padme. And when everything was taken away from him, he was convinced by dooku that it was entirely the Jedi’s fault even though the whole thing was dooku’s plan, which mirrors palpatine getting Vader to blame all his suffering on the Jedi despite it all truly being Palpatines fault.
Part of Grevious's tragic backstory is the Jedi's fault.
@@trevturp6891 the same could be said for anakin
@@Yukzula I know
@@trevturp6891 so that came the name “Grievous”
Palpatine Betrayed all of his Apprentices until Vader poetically betrayed him. “It rhymes” - George Lucas
yeah just like pineapple and my dog archy rhyme
I never really thought about the villains from this perspective. It's actually a very interesting point of view in my opinion and just goes to show the genius behind the trilogy.
Thanks Ani!
Yeah, the six episodes are supposed to be one big cohesive story, not just two trilogies. Having one main Darth Vader surrogate in the prequels would have seemed too disjointed. With three sub villains in the prequels, Lucas made Palpatine the main villain of the saga.
General I have seppie droid positions on naboo
Well shit, Rex. Looks like we're gonna have to mobilize. Get snips, we're leaving for Naboo.
The contradictions actually enhance the connections
Grievous: willing becomes a cyborg to parallel anakin’s lack of agency in that decision
Maul: the lack of sympathetic traits to anakin’s
Dooku: privilege to anakin’s lack of privilege
Nah, he only willingly becomes a cyborg to survive
@@themalcahtwinz4743 Anakin didn't want to be injured and never consented to being turned cybornetic.
grevious didn't want to be turned into a cyborg. He was injured and saved just like Anakin
@@muchanadziko6378 well he enhanced himself to become even more cyborg through his own will so… sort of yes
@@svantejonsborg8402 yeah, but when he already was one
Like, "what do I have to lose"
The novelization for episode 3 has some incredibly insightful moments. When it comes to the high ground, when Obi-Wan said "it's over," Anakin thought about all the times he'd heard the story of Obi-Wan defeating Maul, despite the high ground, and Obi-Wan recognised it. That's why he said "don't try it,"
And also when it comes to Dooku vs Skywalker round 2, in the book, Palpatine told Dooku to toy with Anakin, to see if he would even be worthy to take on as an apprentice
Novelization is no longer canon. The current lore still has Anakin attempting to defeat Obi-Wan the same way the latter bested Maul, but Kenobi had it well scouted. Now, Dooku was not instructed to hold back against Anakin. He was legitimately defeated when Anakin tapped into the dark side.
@@thewarner2139 ok that's fair. I wasn't fully sure about that, but I still think it's possible that certain aspects of it could be canon. After all, most legends have some truth in them
@@StupidWeb I believe that, so long as it doesn’t contradict anything in canon, it’s still applicable
@@GabyGeorge1996 exactly
or it was just obiwan being tactical mlg god 1 million and doing the classic
hegity weg you have no mor leg
I loved Maul's last words and the irony in them. Luke's motivation was never revenge but saving his father. The last one Sidious desired as an apprentice was such a polar opposite to Maul, Dooku and Grievous.
He chose to become a Jedi as a young man rather than being taken as a child.
He experience loss and pain yet never surrender his moral compass.
He looses a limb but never his humanity.
The Star Wars universe puts a great emphasis on the notions of both fate and choice. When faced with the same trials as Maul, Dooku and Grievous, Luke makes a different choice even though the parallel style of storytelling would have him only walk the same path, like a cursed fate. Yet even when walking a similar path, he made different choices because there is always a choice. When faced with the same choices as the others before, he made a Bilbo Baggins of himself and chose compassion, courage and mercy. Something Sidious could never understand. The ultimate difference is Luke found something more precious to him than anything Sidious could ever offer. He knew that power cannot give you everything and what he wanted, no amount of power could give him: to save his father. Only love and forgiveness could grant his wish.
this is why luke is a farmer at his heart, not a jedi; it aint much but it’s honest work
Phrasing things this way sort of illuminates something George was trying to say with the prequels. I can see the whole picture now. He meant for the main antagonists of the first 3 episodes to both mirror aspects of Vader but ALSO, and more importantly, he showed Sidious building his plan...picking attributes he wants in a subordinate; Mauls obedience, Dooku's commanding presence, and Grevious' broken mind and body. Sidious' plan worked. He acquired his perfect puppet soldier at the end of Revenge. Brilliant.
And these ot fanboys had the nerve to trash George smh 🤦🏽♂️
@@skywalker2676 I don't like sand
@@josephpenarrieta9619 Me neither, it just gets everywhere!
It's funny in retrospect that people can piece together a singular argument from each character to form a grand scheme of the creation of Vader, who was already introduced in episodes 4-6...
Grievous represents fear, as deep behind his armoried exterior, battle prowess and bravado he is a coward. Maul represents unthinking, blind hatred, that hampers him down. Dooku representing suffering, as he both willing so sacrifice his life (and lives of others) and reputation for his cause, which he ultimately does. The order is wrong, but stages are the same: Fear, Hatred, Suffering.
"He fears no consequence, including death"©
Though I suppose you're talking about the bitch Canon Grievous.
@@ForsakenDreamer7 of course. No relation to my baby Kaleesh Jedi-killing demigod warlord)
@@andreykuzmin4355 Grievous was seriously waaaay too OP in the 2003 Clone Wars. He was literally like the main villain of an anime. He had to be nerfed, otherwise he would’ve absolutely destroyed Obi-Wan.
@@ltb1345 You should read Stackpole's novelization of the III episode. Some epithets Grievous gets in it are awesome, like "Architect of atrocities" or "Durasteel hand (on the Republic's throat)". He had to be nerfed somewhat, but what we gon in Canon continuity is basically a different character. He was deified as Kaleesh god of war for a very good reason. Obi-Wan won only thanks to copious amount of plot armor and defensive Soresu form, plus mental clarity.
How exactly is Grievous a coward? He does retreat if Jedi use force against him because it means game over for him, but that is not cowardly.
There's a scene in the Vader comics where Boba Fett tells Vader the name of the rebel pilot who blew up the Death Star, and Vader figures out who Luke's mother is, and calls up the Emperor who is like "wow I can feel your anger all the way across the galaxy, what's up?"
In canon, Grievous' hate for the jedi is parallel to Anakin's hate for Tuskin Raiders. Both killed people who meant a lot to them (Anakin's mom and Grievous' friends and family). Grievous' hate for the Huk (opposing species that has tormented his people) is also parallel to Anakin. Anakin wanted to save Padme and Grievous only wanted to save his people. In canon, Grievous also chose the cybernetics because he saw the remaining parts of his body useless.
It’s also really interesting how Maul, Dooku, and Grevious’ injuries parallel those that Anakin suffered. Maul lost his legs, Dooku his hands, and Grevious was set ablaze. In the end, Anakin had no natural limbs and was burned beyond belief. I don’t know if this was intentional or not but it’s certainly interesting to think about
You complain about grievous not being that intimidating, but if his legends/ 2D counterpart showed up, then no one would have made it out of the ship in episode 3 alive
He should've been that in the prequels. Hope to see a future book, series or film that makes Grievious his legends self.
@@Erolsaurus well we never saw Grievous kidnapping Palpatine in canon so you could have a headcanon that most of what happens in clone wars 2003 actually happened
I agree.
You could have it go both ways, where he is a force to be reckoned with, but if you can actually stand up to him he starts to show his cowardice.
@@lucianobattistoniromero4618 But it was at the end of the war, when his chest was crashed, while the whole 2008 series he is coughing.
Something to mention about Grevious: the lightsabers and fighting style is meant to create intimidation and fear to negate a Jedi’s ability to focus on the Force. Obi-Wan was able to defeat him because he didn’t fear Grevious, he knew what he was. Vader certainly knows something about intimidation
Grevious is the most intimidating, but he's just a cat making himself look bigger than he is
Vader then goes on to be 10 times more frightening, and is able to deliver every part of it
What’s an additionally intestinal parallel is that Dooku makes both Anakin and Grevious robotic. Then Obi-Wan de-limbs both of them as they combust in fire. Very subtle, maybe even unintentional parallel. But very cool. Great video!
Who would have thought that after the stigma of ‘just being cash-grabs’ the prequels true thematic deepness and epic genius starts to be realised.
I know the other SW content undoubtedly expanded on that genius but the groundwork was set down by Lucas.
Fantastic video Full-Fat, looking forward to more.
They still have a kind of awkward execution in the movies at times but the backstories and thematic appeal provide so many hours of intrigue and entertainment and I’m really glad they exist.
When people say the prequels suck...show them this...no bad movie is this deep
Truuuuu if they were that bad no one would still be talking about them they’d just be largely forgotten
@@bayholeman9952 kinda the way the sequels are...too soon? Well I forget about them constantly.
@@kordellcabe6 Considering how many comments I see trashing the sequels at every given moment, I'd say they're still fresh in people's minds...
Incorrect. The only 3 faces of Vader are Jake Lloyd Hayden Christensen and a black mask.
Sebastian Shaw?
@@RbkARI The Winter Solider should play him in the next prequel appearance.
@@briansilva3344 Sebastian Stan is a Mark Hamill clone
I don't think Jake Lloyd counts; he was only ever Anakin. Hayden Christensen was Anakin when he turned, the black mask was Vader when he returned. Where is the third face?
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Melted on a hillside on Mustafar. I was going to say Sebastian Shaw, but by the time he took the helmet off, it wasn't Vader anymore.
I love the argument of the people in these replies.
Man, I keep getting depressed when watching Star Wars. Anakin has such a sad story. He lost everything because he wanted to save everything.
True but sometimes even we unintentionally cause our own pain.
I like your take on all 3 "proto Vaders" for Obi Wan. Obi Wan was being prepared to face Darth Vader his whole life by facing these "faces", he just didn't know it.
I literally never realised how each of the villains represents a part of Vader. I’m gonna enjoy the prequels far more now
Maul: *spirit*
Dooku: *mind*
Grievous: *body*
Been knowing this since 2005.
The prequels are more genius than I give them credit for. I think they definitely will last the test of time more than the Disney sequels.
The problem was the execution, aged CGI, and the bad dialogue. There was so many great things that could be seen in the story from the symbolisms and very subtle foreshadowing.
@@vashythewabbit8288 While the Sequels are the inverse of this.
Everyone on those movies were bringing there A game, except for the script department which for Star Wars was the most important part to nail
@@vashythewabbit8288 bad dialogue was in every trilogy tho lol 😂 some of that shit in the OT is cringe asf 😭😭🤣but yea George dialogue is awful
@@vashythewabbit8288 The dialogue really wasn’t that bad, especially when compared to that of the “Sequels”. Practical effects also don’t look as life-like as people say they do anymore, especially people wearing alien costumes (see the aliens in the “Sequels”).
@@coolgreenbug7551 Except arguably The Last Jedi, which suffered from this weird problem where the director was able to thematically tap into Star Wars really well, but wasn't able to write the Star Wars Galaxy as a universe, and also had a weak as fuck premise to work off of.
Characters tend to lack continuity between it and the previous films, established rules in the universe are broken in frustrating ways, and established pieces of lore are disregarded in favor of clumsier solutions, but at its core, it thematically continues the track that the Prequels and Original Trilogy made.
The OT established the Jedi as an unquestioned good, and the Empire as a villain who just needed to be shot to death, the Prequels (tried to) questioned that narrative and disillusioned us with the Jedi Order.
Rey, in TLJ, represents the OS, while Luke represents the Prequels, and at the core that's a really compelling conflict that ends in a realization which builds into something great for the conclusion of the series, but then Ryan forgot what universe he was writing for and got distracted with unnecessary side-plots.
The prequel expanded lore is unrivaled and unparalleled genius. The prequel movies were meh. Thank the Force there are good writers who love Star Wars.
@hunterkiller1440 Well, if you have seen the Sequels. You know how far those have fallen. And.......... you know the rest..........
“Meh”
So it’s treason then?
Thank the Force Clone Wars existed to resurrect it's potential...
Revenge of the sith is amazing
@TheSovietOnion l I don’t know, you’ll have to give an example. I feel the dialogue has done its part and generated a fair amount of meme material. In my eyes the dialogue is practically the sacred text itself.
It’s because Kenobi is a defensive master, but Dooku’s style is perfectly tailored to counter that.
I like to think there are two parts to Anakin's character: the slave and the hero.
He starts out a slave then, thinking he earned his freedom, becomes a slave to the jedi order. He then helps destroy the jedi only to become a slave to Sidious.
As the hero, the first time we see him he is defending jar jar. Then saves the naboo fighters by taking out the droid control ship. Throughout Anakin's time as a jedi he is constantly trying to save people, always willing to put himself in harm's way to do it. He only turned to the dark side because Sideous manipulated his desire to save Padme.
In the end, he finally gets to overthrow his master (literally) and enjoy a moment of freedom to see his son before the end.
This does also explain why he is so frustrated with not being given the rank of master. It would, in his mind, be the end to his servitude. He'd finally be able to act freely, he would have no master. And since he was given a seat (by sideous) but not the rank of master, dispite not seeing any reason why he shouldn't be, he remained a slave. Of course this wouldn't have freed him from the dogma of the jedi but this is how Anakin would have seen it.
3 faces of vader
The man: dooku
The machine: grievous
The monster: maul
There is nothing cowardly about Greivious in ROTS, I don't know where you got that idea from. Escaping a hopeless situation does not make one a coward. Especially since his first escape very nearly kills Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine himself.
It sucks how much Grievous’s character gets treated in canon. I’m not saying I wanna op 2003 version I just want a competent intimidating badass who can kill Jedi.
We need a Grievous movie
@Mackenzie Bauroth: It should start on Ka'lee, with him being shown as the incredible sniper and great leader his people saw him as. They see him as a demigod, catering to his every whim. Eventually, he would have a dream of a warrior slaying a great beast. He would go to kill it, only to find the warrior from his dream is not him, but a female warrior. The two would slay the beast, and then become lovers.
He would eventually go to war with the Huk, as they have desecrated ancient Ka'leesh burial grounds. In time, his lover would suffer a horrific death at the hands of the Huk, causing him to change his name to "Grievous", as it is the only way to express his pain. Afterwards, he would lead a major offense against his enemy, who in their cowardice, run to the Republic and the Jedi. The Republic forces the Ka'leesh back to their home planet, and blockades it, causing mass starvation of innocent Ka'leesh people. Grievous would attempt to have the blockade removed, but to no avail.
Eventually, the Huk would once again destroy Ka'leesh burial grounds. Grievous, with the approval of the tribes elders and many of his best warriors, would set out in a rickety rustbucket ship to cease their assault. The ship would unfortunately be sabotaged by a traitor hired by Dooku, causing to explode over the ocean. Dooku would then arrive in the night in a risky bid to capture Grievous' body.
Grievous would be held in a bacta tank by Dooku, with the Count giving him a choice: Die dishonorable in a bacta tank and his people will die, or become a cyborg and Dooku's right-hand man, with the blockade being removed, allowing Grievous' people to thrive once again. Grievous would obviously choose the latter.
The movie would then move to a live-action, more grounded Battle of Hypori, with Grievous slaughtering clones and his forces closing in. He would then fight three jedi at once, killing them all. Afterwards, he would be approached by Dooku who would scold him and tell him to be less destructive, for Palpatines plan is not yet ready. Grievous would begrudgingly comply.
The film would then have Grievous' own voice monologuing over his parts in Episode 3, and only finishes at his own death. The film would then show a small, dark control room dimly lit by glowing green screens. It would then follow a large, cloaked figure arising and walking down many pitch-black halls It stops at a massive room lit by hundreds of bacta tanks, each with an abominable double of Grievous inside. Stolen organs, cybernetics, and control chips make up the "clones", each one requiring manual control from the general himself through a computer.
The real Grievous would then exit his base, revealing his new and improved droid army. The time has come for the Ka'leesh to rise. Dooku and Palpatine wanted a monster, and the entire galaxy was given one.
@@GreaseGrab Agreed. 2003 version was ridiculously OP, but I don’t like how he was characterized in The Clone Wars 2008.
Im not a huge fan of the series but im a huge fan of greivous and would have to agree
I swear this man uses Duel of The Fates whenever he can
It's a good song
as he should
as he should because it's epic!
Wouldn't you?
@@SuperSaiyanD48 fair enough
I really like Grievous from the 2D Clone Wars, being a Badass cyborg who fought many Jedi masters, even struck fear into their hearts. Too bad he’s not like that in Episode 3 and CGI Clone Wars. Despite that, he’s more useful than the Knights of Ren😄
Yeah but he didn't have much personality
God 2D CW Grievous was a beast, i remember being so hyped as kid when i found out he was going to be in Episode III so yeah i was very very underwhelmed with his scenes in the film.
@@wallywest4727 Yeah but what personality did he have
@@397llederson6 Obviously he hates Jedi because he kills them alot.
@@397llederson6 Did he need one? He's a Jedi hunter who Jedi fear, that's all we need on him. Before the CG Clone Wars gave Maul an insane amount of depth he had little to no personality in E1 yet he was still widely regarded as one of the better things in the prequel Trilogy because of look, presence and actions. Grievous actions in the Clone Wars mini series made him great, he could take on many Jedi with ease yet wasn't OP as Jedi Masters could hold their own with Mace outright one shotting with a force crush. In the film though he's this coughing coward who doesn't stand a chance against Obi-Wan, considering at that point in time many of us have just watched him slay Jedi and move at extreme speed in the 2D Clone Wars it was annoying and jarring to see the film version be almost nothing like that version.
"There can only two, a master and his apprentice."
The master will be killed by the apprentice, to establish himself.
Sidious circumvented this, by choosing a new apprentice every 10 years. Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Vader. Only that Starkiller failed, as did Luke, allowing Vader to kill Sidious therefor fulfilling the prophecy. As Vader was the last Sith alive at the time, he ended both Jedi and Sith, then and there.
Greivious wasn't trained by Sidious, not a Sith and was around since at least The Battle of Geonosis. He was only trained with lightsabers by Dooku to kill Jedi and had no force potential, relying strictly on fear, his mechanical body, and above average fighting prowess, but primarily fear.
I'm also fairly certain Dooku left the Jedi shortly before or after Jinn's death; Palpatine showed Dooku a hologram of Jinn's death to Maul...in a twisted way to coerce him to the dark side.
Starkiller and TFU was never canon to the series either, just saying
“In a manner of speaking?!”
Don’t you mean “from a certain point of view?”
Aw man! I posted that! God is funny!
If we look at Grievous’s origins in canon it kinda makes him and Anakin a bit similar. Basically Grievous wanted to become a Jedi and was denied because he wasn’t force sensitive enough. This really bruised Grievous’s ego and led him down the path of becoming the cyborg jedi killer we all know of. Now let’s look at Anakin, one of his biggest flaws was his arrogance and when he got denied the master rank by the Jedi council it bruised his ego and helped push him down the path of becoming Vader.
To be fair, it wasn’t primarily his bruised ego (although that didn’t help…) He wanted the rank of Jedi master so that he could get into the restricted section of the archives to find a way to save Padmé - at the end of it all, he chose the way of the Sith because at least they promised him a way to save her where the Jedi denied him that knowledge.
@@vngelicath1580 I believe that the "secret Jedi knowledge" motivation for Anakin is from the Revenge of the Sith novelisation, which is non-canon.
@@vngelicath1580 I think in canon it was just his bruised ego.
Which is something I’m not against. It adds something to Anakin, yeah his story is tragic but he still had some flaws that he could have worked on.
That's a thing a lot of Anakin defenders forget. He had loads of personal flaws and refused to address them. A desire for power and authority, to force people to act the way he thought was right. Insecurity, and possessiveness over his loved ones.
A lack of dedication to Jedi work ethics. And a highly aggressive disposition.
It's these things and his own desperation that made him turn. Not the Jedi, they where his and Sidious' victims.
Also I don't think the Jedi are bothered about how strong one is or isn't with the force. Just their character. So I don't know if that book is accurate. Some authors tended to go overboard with their personal interpretations, rather then maintaining consistent character depictions.
Cough! Karen Traviss sucks. Cough!
For me the thumbnail speaks volumes
The 3 faces of Vader:
Maul: Anakin rage and frustration
Dooku: His pride, Overconfidence and narcissism
Then Grievous: He obsessive nature and possibly even a hint of cowardice
Not much of a hint. Darth Vader tells Luke that he needed his help to take Darth Sidious on.
@@cristiansaucedo4707 More like for all of his cyber enhancements and lightsaber skills, he still cannot match the raw might of the force, just like Grievous.
@@revan552 Ok. But Vader can still give a hint of cowardice anyway, just like Grievous represents, at least according to the original poster
@@revan552 Trumpcicle, at the top of this thread, is the original poster.
For his cowardice, I am referring to his inability to face Darth Sidious on his own. Yes, I understand he analyzed himself as being less powerful than DS, but I believe he wasn't all that brave about that knowledge either.
Darth Vader ends up representing love but not purely love: more like thinking about himself and when he saw his son would die and there was nothing else he could do, after 20 years of planning, he sacrificed himself for his son.
I never thought of it like this. But it makes sense. They reflect Anakin's gradual fall and progression to the dark side. Great video man. Keep em coming.
The concept of Greivious slowly replacing himself with machine, can still connect to Vader by reflecting how Anikin slowly desired more and more power
I think this works most on a personality level, Maul being hate and anger, Dooku being arrogance and the feeling of superiority and grievous being the lust for destruction. But an interesting idea, never thought if that
I've been looking forward to this
Surely you can do better
Twice the pride double The Fall
Its Broken
When you’ve been looking forward to this
Get help your no match for him he’s a Sith Lord
Last time I was this early, Obi-Wan had the low ground.
So 32 BBY?
Yes and did you know that maul was originally going to be the heir of palpatine in the lucas sequels
As much as I love maul. I don't think this would work on paper unfortunately. I think a good idea would have been to have a completely new character (sort of like what they tried with snoke) but don't kill them in the second movie...
@@simonwebster6127 tcw says otherwise
The good old fashioned remain hidden while building up an empire through corruption. The thing that did in fact start in TCW... Until he got himself busted by both Palpatine and the Jedi.
oh yeah I heard of that darth talon was going be the darth vader
@@owyemen9367 yes, but he's dead after rebels. And the sequels are set after that...
Do people really not realize this? Feel like I've known this since my childhood watching the prequels. That the three main villains each represent different parts of Vader that all add up to make the super villain that is Darth Vader. Thought it was just one of those... obvious things.
Wow, you must have really understood narratives and themes as a kid.
@@WalnutAnimations Shake-a-spear would be jealous of this @Red Boy
Disney changed the canon so that Dooku had already left the Order before Qui-Gon died. Heck, Dooku was even interested in the Dark Side back when Qui-Gon was his Padawan. He even used Force Lightning to save Qui-Gon. Source: Master and Apprentice by Claudia Grey. Not sure which version of Dooku's fall I prefer. Both are interesting.
General Grevious has so much skill, have you seen the 2003 STAT WARS cartoon. That dude is scary and skilled.
Unfortunately that is not canon. It never happened. Disney erased it. Which means movie and 2008 clnoe wars grievous are all we have and they both suck. He never kill anyone aside from some padawans and a gungan.
@@quickbinger1058 well. In cannon. He beat kenobi many times. As well as council members and his attack on corasaunt is cannon.
@@quickbinger1058 I recognise Disney has made a decision. But given that it is a stupid-ass decision, I have elected to ignore it.
@@Lunacorva I know right.
@@Bmedeiros-youtube yeah but he never really killed anyone aside from the 2 I mentioned. He is cowardly and I think he deserved more exciting appearances.
It just goes to show how tightly woven the Prequels were with the OT. It truly is a shame how the Sequels are so disjointed and disconnected from the rest.
Man, this is some fantastic content that I as a Dooku fan particularly appreciate. Makes me nostalgic for my essay writing days in my last year of college. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
I always love seeing people acknowledging how good the prequels actually are, certain scenes such as the "nooooooo" scene at the end of revenge of the sith are often seen as bad, despite making sense and in my opinion at least, being really good
0:01 - Intro
4:43 - Darth Maul
8:49 - Count Dooku
17:39 - General Grevious
21:29 - Outro
This makes me have even more appreciation for the prequels. The fact that all the main enemies symbolize part of Anakin’s eventual fall to the dark side as Darth Vader is incredible. George definitely needs to get more credit for this.
I think grievous upgrading himself throughout the the clonewars makes sense and still connects to Vader. They both became machine by someone else's hand, however they show the two sides of that concept. Vader elected to keep as much of himself as he could, while grievous decided to give himself up to the machine
They did Grievous dirty in the live action, in the
Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003 TV series) he was a total badass and actually kind of scary. Wish they made him like that in the live action but oh well, great video.
Tbf, the 2003 Grievous was the result of miscommunication on how Grievous is supposed to be portrayed while ROTS Grievous is supposed to be the actual portrayal. As much as I liked 2003 Grievous, they need to go with the original intention that was released in live action. But i do like how the comics is trying to mix the 2003 Grievous and ROTS Grievous by having him kill Talzin and 2 Jedi without any help or dirty tricks and hinted about his backstory as similar to the Legends story.
True story: I loved that show as a kid so going to see Revenge of the sith in the theatre I was psyched especially for grievous.... when he was little more than a Saturday morning cartoon villain at 11 years old I out loud said “the fuck is this?”
@@ryankeefe6222 lmao
@@vashythewabbit8288 i didnt know that, thanks :D
Well, they had reason why he is nerfed - Windu crushed his chest.
It’s like poetry, it rhymes
To be fair. In the clone wars. Grievous was the face of the separatists. Being an amazing tactical genius and feared pilot. A such as Vader. Grievous also beat obi wan and other masters in cannon.
I could also see it like this, Maul the Assassin, Dooku the Traitor and Grievous the Machine make the traitorous mechanical killer in lord Vader.
I always did have a similar idea idea that the three villains were essentially prototypes for Sidious' ultimate apprentice and pawn. Vader's predecessors being heightened aspects of himself. Maul the fiery and savage monster, Dooku the cold and sophisticated fallen Jedi and Grievous, the machine. Interesting choices by Lucas.
I feel that, in a way, Aniken's loss of his best friend Obi Wan made him fall further into the dark side. Not when be killed him, but when they became enemies.
Obiwan is weak against siths with elegance and discipline, he’s normally the patient one in a fight
Wow, I never thought all four were connected in such a way. Thank you for opening my mind to this idea.
Me: "Gee, it's 3 AM and I have class at 8 AM, I should probably go to slee-"
Full Fat Videos: *Uploads a 30 minute video*
Me:
Me: " *Well, hello there* "
General Elm Zac.
@Elm Zec It’s been 6 hours since your comment, hope your class went well 👍
A wise choice indeed
I have exams that go towards my Leaving Cert in 3 days but this is more important
Nice to find another Irish person here, I'll be in your position next year
@@lizardlegend42 forgot that the rest of the world probably dont know what Leaving Certs are...
@@evancreagh4663 translation for everyone else:
Leaving Cert is a synonym of hell
Good luck you guys
The fuck is cert
Here is another similarity between Maul & Vader;
Maul was also presented with a family and people but they where taken away. A brother in Savage but Maul just used him as a Sith apprentice and taken away by Sheev Palpatine/Sidious. A mother in Talzin but before he got close Grievous killed her. A species that was loyal to him in the Dathomirian Zabrak Nightbrothers but Dooku/Tyranus commit genocide against them. 2 factions in the Shadow Collective & Crimson Dawn but the 1st 1 got destroyed by Ahsoka & the other got destroyed too but it's unknown how.
Anakin Skywalker/Vader had a family and people that where taken away. A mother in Shmi but taken away by the Tuskin Raiders. A step-brother in Owen Lars that he didn't care for and lest him. A wife in Padmé Amidala but taken away through death by his own hand. Then twin children he didn't knew before he was lost. A son in Luke who saved him. A daughter he never knew but unknowingly met. He was given 2 factions in the Republic & Empire which both made him loose it.
@URIEL LUNA NOGUEZ
Sadly that is Legends not Canon. I wish Grievous's Legends backstory returned to Canon.
@@modmaker7617 well, good thing is that so far Disney hasn't touched Grievous' backstory at all so far. The closest thing we got was a Grievous comic book that revealed what he looked like before he turned into a cyborg and hinted at his Legends backstory when it said that he was lying to himself that he turned himself into a cyborg.
@@vashythewabbit8288 At no point was he lying about saying he chose to upgrade himself. He mentioned it in TCW as well. The Force itself even tells Grievous that he was a fool for choosing to undergo the operation because it prevents him from being able to understand the greater powers of the universe.
Take notes boys and girls, this is prime content.
This is just a masterpiece, no other way to describe this video
I adore Full Fat’s intros. They are amazing.
With Greivous, I personally like to believe that he was "saved" by Dooku but once he already had the body he began enhancing it himself so his true weakness wasn't showing at full force.
This is a fantastic interpretation of the three villains of the prequels! I thank you for your broadcasting of this perspective, and the people on Reddit you referenced for coming up with the idea!
Obi-Van: Sith lords, are our specialty.
Dooku: Are you sure about that master Kenobi?
I love Maul, Dooku, and Grievous and I hope they all appear on screen together at some point!
They were together in the son of dathomir comic series. I also wish they made it into a clone wars episode
I find that you’re focusing on movie and 2008 Grevious instead of the 2003 Grevious which resembles more Darth Vader. He is more fearsome in there compared to the other two. I find Genndy understood what Grevious is supposed to be where as George ended up contradicting himself on what he said vs what he showed on screen
Other than that this is a great and well analyzed video of Darth Vader. I always enjoy your Star Wars videos. Keep up the good work. .
Awesome analysis, specially when combining it with Samuel's music.
Towards the "contradiction" between EP III and TCW about Grievous cybernetics, this could be easily reconciliated by saying that, although Grievous was not exactly awake after the accident the CIS provoked on him, he eventually came to just accept and like his cybernetics. We have to remind that even if he had to receive the cybernetics in any form or way, one can just change opinions at any time.
Another explanation was that he just told that as masquerade to hide the truth, a truth he didn't wanted to accept or tell to anyone.
It's funny how we got a dissection on two deep, dark Sith Lords and then an analysis on Grievous's goofy ass.
🤣🤣🤣
If he had gone into the stuff from other versions of the character it probably could've been taken more seriously. Especially since Grievous is the name he took after the death of his lover/spouse and not long after adopting this new moniker/identity nearly dies and is revived as a cyborg. Very much like Anakin who becomes Darth Vader then a cyborg after his wife "dies" and a process that began out of fear for her death.
@@oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682 and if 2003 GG was cannon, he'd have a lot more good stuff to say about mah boi
Seeing the final blow on Anakin back to back with the final blow on Maul with the audio overlaid REALLY drives home the point that Anakin really thought he could overpower Obi-Wan like that. He really thought the fight was over.
I just want to add that your use of music, and subtle flourishes in your audio is heavenly. Absolutely astounding production value.
Christopher Lee giving advice on what its like being stabbed.
That man is metal incarnate.
“Grievous is nothing but a coward”
2003 Clone wars Grievous: and I took that personally
Why are people so hang up to Grievous in Clone Wars 2003 when the version in Revenge of the Sith is the default?
Closer to his default (which is the Revenge of the Sith) is Clone Wars 2008 version.
Yes I just praised the Grievous from TCW08 because it was closer to ROTS the default then the OP CW03 counterpart that officially didn't exist in-universe.
@@modmaker7617 I just find him to be pretty neat
This made me laugh. Thanks friend
@@modmaker7617 I'm with you.
@@modmaker7617 The 2003 version is the default. It is the first and it was always intended to be Canon.
This is just fantastic. Kudos FFV. How I wish Spielberg agreed to direct so that the prequels got the execution they deserved, because there's no question that they truly run deeply and powerfully.
Thank you so much!
"Grievous has little real skill"
Yes unfortunately that is canon grievous.
But... My friend... Have you ever heard the tragity of 2003 general grievous? It's not a story canon would tell you...
Canon grevious makes me sad
yep! check my video on the clone wars 2003, it has the grievous fight! th-cam.com/video/qVTUdm_nDfs/w-d-xo.html
@@FullFatVideos Okay every day I'm finding more and more reasons to love the channel. You, have earned a sub. Thank you!
“Sidious’ four horsemen”
Jesus,that’s brilliant,cool and absolutely true
Maul - The Past - Born into a life a servitude and groomed for a single purpose, but armed with the unshakable belief he is meant for greater things.
Dooku - The Present - Disillusioned with the Jedi Order and frustrated with the Republic, eager to enforce a new, better order on the Galaxy.
Grievous - The Future - A twisted carcass. A shadow of the great warrior he once was. More machine than man.
This is simply the best analysis I’ve seen, great job 👏
Virgin canon Grievous vs The chad 03 clone wars grevaious
Canon Grievous is actually a lot more of an interesting character and not just a Darth Vader clone. Don’t get me wrong I love Grevious 2003 but Canon Grievous is still badass
@@mineturtleanimations2988 Stop lying to yourself. I guess he is kinda cool in battlefront 2 if you know how to use him and in the books but he still sucks. He is supposed to be a jedi killer but the only (onscreen) jedi he killed was a recently promoted padawan who only just became a knight. I know he killed captain tarpals as well but he is a gungan soooooo yeah. He also got his butt kickd by sid gungans so he may be interesting but he still sucks. Except from the legends books and cartoon. That is the real grievous.
@@mineturtleanimations2988 bruh he isnt interesting at all he is literally a giant coward who only fights when he has the clear and obvious advantage or if he absolutely had to. Meanwhile the chad 03 Grievous makes his arms stop fireing so he could go in and personally murder each jedi
@@GlobalOutcast Canon grievous is 10x more entertaining and unique than 2003 grievous' boring ass generic mustache twirling villain voice. The fact that y'all value pure strength over how interesting a character actually is ridiculous. Pretty shallow, even.
I bet if the 2003 clones were super overpowered dark trooper tier characters, you'd say the same shit, even if the 2008 clones had actual character aside from being killing machines.
@@sarahbelle81 im sorry dude but you so clearly dont know what you are talking about, trying to seriously compare clone wars to The clone wars is not only stupid but doesn't make sense. One is a 7 season series with 20+ minute eps that went on for years. The other was a mini series where all eps but the last season were only 3 minutes long, and the third seasons eps where only 12 mins and only ran after the release eps2 and ended before release 3. Trying to hold them to the same standard is simply silly and an incorrect approach