How to fly most efficiently with a FES powered electric glider
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- Have you ever wondered how high you can climb with the batteries of the electric propulsion system FES? In this video i try to give you a feeling of how to best operate such electric powered gliders.
✅ Please support me and subscribe to my channel:
/ @rudisglidingadventures
The electric FES propulsion system is getting more and more popular for gliders. There are already quite a few types with it available on the market. Interested pilots often ask me: "How high can i climb with those batteries?".
As the strategy is different to gliders with retractable engines, i want to give you an introduction on how to use this system in the most efficient way.
Have fun watching it and i really appreciate if you leave me a comment below!
➡️ followme also on instagram: @rudi.aviator
#electric #propulsion #glider #gliding #soaring #electricflight
This is probably the biggest innovation in gliding since introduction of composite materials. It also improves safety a lot and opens new areas for gliding, previously not accessible in a safe manner.
One should never rely on the engine -so some of those areas will remain closed same as now if they are out of gliding range of a landable field - Mr Kawa ably demonstrated that fact with his accident.................. the only slight advantage the FES has , is if everything is working, is that it is a simple system that starts quickly - however the poor climb rate at fairly low speeds won't get you out of some situations that more powerful engines in some SLS might........ i would much prefer to fly a jet powered JS1, 3 or Shark in the mountains than any FES equipped glider.....
@@buzzinbritain8222 Yes, that is true, but you can never try to get a lift at 200 m as seen in this video. And every system has some pros and cons and FES has by far the fastest start up time.
@@buzzinbritain8222 to be fair - the jets don't like to actually start once cold soaked. Jet fuel sucks for that and it's difficult to get around. I'm not sure if Prist would help with these no starts - but it would be worth looking at. The Jonker owners group on Facebook has a discussion about this topic. You must not rely on the jet engine to start either.
strange coment from "fifi23o5"................rc-controlled E-gliders do use T H A T system (= front-propeller) for 50 years by now.................. // it is a shame, that man carrying glider production companies lost so much time to understand, that complex systems are not only complex but way to expensive !
well pretty much what is holding back the entire innovation is the limited capacity and weight of the lithium batteries, manufacturers have been promising Superior batteries for more than 2 decades now but nothing yet in the market, very disappointing, hydrogen fuel cells could probably be the next best choice.
You know it was some guy at the RC flying field, looking at his powered glider thinking.. "Ya know.. this would probably work full scale too" LOL.
It clearly shows you the advantages of this system. Electric systems will probably be the future in Personal aircraft. Thanks Rudi!
Thank you Florian 😀! Yes i definitly think electric propulsion has a bright bright future in general aviation!
Had mine (HpH Shark 304eS) for five years now. It's always got me home or to another airfield when I needed it! Good video!
Hi Pete, yes i fully agree, I love the FES too! Thank you for your appreciation :-)!
Great video, well done! Very tidy panel too, I like it. The FES is pretty awesome, definitely the future I'd say. Cheers from New Zealand!
Hi Tim, thank you very much for your comment 😍!
Yeah I simply love the FES 😍😍😃
The benefits of an electric self launch and sustainer that is available immediately when you want it is a complete game changer !!
I totally agree :-)!
I couldn't have described self launched FES flight any better after flying mine 5 years and over 150 flights. Unfortunately the season here in Canada is short and mine is resting in it's hangar waiting for Spring. The FES system allows me to base the glider at a small public airport with paved runway, so I can launch unassisted a month or more before the grass field glider clubs can. Some of my best flights have been in the earliest part of the season with some snow still on the ground. The important thing is to keep warm! I've added sealing around the canopy and dress warmly. Fortunately, the FES can be relied on to start even in very cold conditions with pre-warmed batteries charged at home. Coldest air temperature I've seen in flight so far was -11C at about 7500' asl. I'm really looking forward to flying again as soon as my wings can clear the snowbanks at the edge of the taxiways :-)
Hi Jim, thank you for your comment! Yes keeping the batteries in a warm place is really necessary, in particular when the outside temperatures are still low.
I have had a key moment on that once, since that i always store the batteries at room temperature.
Thank you for your comment!
@@RudisGlidingAdventures Storing the batteries at cold temperatures (above freezing) is no problem and can even extend their life but they should be warm for charging and for use. I store mine in an underground garage that never goes below 10C. They should also not be kept at a high or low state of charge for any length of time. I got a device from Luka at FES that discharges the battery to 50% when a heater (load) is plugged into it. It has a digital readout of battery charge %. If I decide not to fly after charging to 100% before a flight, I'll discharge to below 80% if likely to fly within a few days or to 50% if more than a week. So far I have not noticed a significant degradation after over 400hr and 150 flights and 5 years of ownership. My Silent (1070) had been an Alisport demonstrator for 2 years before I got it including record flights in Namibia.
Hi Jim, thanks for your remarks. So you are flying the D-MYTO? Probably with another registration now?
@@RudisGlidingAdventures Registration was I-C149 now C-IVEE. th-cam.com/video/OnpmhTAKGy4/w-d-xo.html
Really enjoy your videos! Thanks for taking the time!
Hello Mike, thank you very much for your words! I highly appreciate them :-)!
Nicely assembled and presented. Well done Rudi!
Thank you Dan 😃👍
Ohh I like this,
silent gliding without the fear of not getting home.
climbing must be fun,
this might be my flight goal.
Indeed i know quite a few pilots, who got more confident to get home again and who started to fly more cross country! Thank you for your comment!
Great video Rudi, thank you. I have just bought a miniLak FES and I am just starting to play with the motor: I found your video very instructive. Have a great season!
Hi Tim, thank you for your comment!
You find some more information about engine control also here (sorry, the videos are made in german 😐 ):
part 1: th-cam.com/video/UPen2ErKmKQ/w-d-xo.html
part 2: th-cam.com/video/bWWb2YCj7lk/w-d-xo.html
Surely the parameters will differ a bit, but i have put some additional information in those videos. If you understand german (i hope 😀), you might find them helpful too.
I wish you great flights with your glider!
This appears to be the best powered implementation for glider purists who wish to forego the tow line, and as you rightly point out, there's a big difference between a retractable and built-in motor. I hope the electric powered glider industry will pursue this technology further. If I was going to purchase my own glider, this is the exact type I would get.
I think this is the system I'm looking for. Looks great!
Thank you Rohan, yes the system is really nice!
It really opens up new possibilities.
I like it! 👍
Thank you Johan, yes i agree, it opens up a lot of new possibilities!
Well done Rudi, proffesional class. I will look for every new movie from you.
Hello Anders, thank you very much, highly appreciated 😍!!
Thank you, Rudi - very interesting video!
Hi Tadek, thank you for your comment 😃👍
Great video Rudi. I have an early model LAK17B FES for 3yrs now and having no guidence it took me a while to really find out how best to use the FES sustainer. I made a few mistakes along the way including landing out after using all my battery reserve. I dont have the issue with the cold but with heat in summer here the ambient temperature can be +30C so running the motor too long can push the motor temp up. Keep up the videos!
Hi David, i will keep up making videos, thank you very much for your comment 😀!
Yes, i know other operators too, who had to gain experience using the hard (expensive) way. So i hope to be able to help others to learn it the easy way 😀!
Regarding the hot temperatures: i have some experience too. You need to keep up the balance between using power and look for the temperatures not getting to high. And finally, keep the ventilation on, but you are reminded by the appropriate message quite soon, if you forget about that 😅
This thing is soooooo cool.
Great video! I really like how you explained the strategy for self launch. Sounds like this is best suited for airfields where you can typically find thermals from low altitudes. Our complication in Boulder is that we often have a very strong and persistent inversion over the prairie and need to climb 5000-7000 ft above the ground to get into lift above the mountains. Sounds like there might not be enough energy available for such days. At least not with the current battery capacity.
What's interesting is the older Gen 1-4 batteries have really poor energy density by today's standards, about half the energy per kg of your common Tesla. So it should be pretty easy even with today's technology...
Nice video love the self-launching ability!
Yeah its really great!
Love it!! More please. Thanks. Danke
Hi, thank you for your comment 😃👍! I will do so! And thanks for watching 😃!
Nice video Rudi! You've got yourself a new subscriber. I do believe this calls for a "complications of retractable engine self launching sailplanes" video 😂 you nailed it with the topic. Very very nicely presented.
Hi, wow cool! Thank you very much for your words, they are highly appreciated 😀!
@@RudisGlidingAdventures you're most welcome! The way you presented it, and even the retractable height constraints issue was well done. Man I can't wait to get back in the air! Panel is almost done!! 😁
Das ist mal wirklich MEGA! Ich bin schwer beeindruckt, dass der Flieger sogar Eigenstartfähig ist! Das ist wirklich cool!
Und vor allem die Möglichkeiten, "mal eben" den Motor zu starten und in der Thermik einfach direkt auszuschalten um mal "zu schauen" ob der Bart trägt ist genial.
Wenn ich dazu noch bedenken, wie viele erfahrene Piloten schon mit ihren Maschinen bei einer Außenlandung verunglückt sind, weil sie sich drauf verlassen hatten, dass ihr Verbrenner anspringt... den dann erst in 150m Resthöhe ausgeklappt haben, dann 4m Sinkrate hatten und dann das Teil nicht angesprungen ist... da ist ein elektrischer Antrieb aber sowas von überlegen!
Ich freue mich auf die Zukunft, wenn solche Systeme in größerem Maßstab Einzug erhalten - Tolles Video!
Great video!
Thank you Bartosz :-)!
Rudi, weiter so. Nett anzusehen und wunderbar ruhig erklärt. Fehlt nur noch: "Captain speaking...." 😇
Hi Tobi, Danke für den Kommentar, freut mich sehr :-). Das mit dem "Captain speaking ..." kommt vielleicht noch 😀!
Klasse gemacht und anschaulich präsentiert, das muss wirklich Spaß machen. Hoffentlich fliege ich auch irgendwann mal mit einem FES
Danke für deine Worte - ja ich bin echt ein Fan von diesem FES System 😃👍
Wunderschöne Erklärung. Einfache Sprache. Sehr nett dargestellt. Ich mag diese Art sehr. Viel Erfolg und Glück beim Fliegen.
Hallo Ashraf, Danke für dein liebes Kommentar 😃👍
@@RudisGlidingAdventures es ist wirklich schön und wertvoll.
Brilliant Aircraft Rudi
Thank you Clayton!
wow! I'm really impressed.
I mean that's something man.
again. Wow!!
Thank you :-)!
Wieder ein cooles Video mehr! Schöne Aufnahmen und instruktiv kommentiert. Ich freue mich auf die Flüge mit sistership S/N 2090 🤙🇨🇦😉
Hey super, da wünsche ich dir viel Spaß mit dem Flugzeug! Wird dir sicher gefallen! Danke auch für das Lob, das freut mich sehr und ermuntert mich gleich das nächste Video zu machen 😀!
Thanks for your video, I've been trying to figure out if it is feasible to build a self-launching FES with only ~20kW, your info was very handy!
In my opinion 20kw is enough. The motors can often handle way more power. The controller is what needs to be top notch
Now what i would love is a control unit at the stick
Thermals - Schmermals ! Who NEED'S Them When One Has Knobs Already !
😂
I fly rc gliders ( line of sight and some fpv ) with these folding props, it works very well.
I would LOVE to fly full size gliders but its expensive and need to launch from airports so time consuming too.
One day maybe.
I think you should go to your next lokal gliding airfield and simply try it once 😀 - then you KNOW how good it feels to fly by yourself 😀
@@RudisGlidingAdventures I've had a trial lesson in a glider many years ago and loved it, but ar that time I didn't have time on my hands to commit to learning,
Now I have the time but not the money lol.
Might look into it again though , maybe I can figure something out.
@@FlyingFun. I can completely understand you, I began gliding as a student, with no money but time and now its the other way round 😂😂
Incredible airplane...
Thank you, it is really nice 😃
Nice explanation-video Rudi, wish I can afford an FES powered glider too. Maybe some day :-)
Hello Jochen, thank you for your comment 😀! I am sure there will be such a day soon 😀!
There are some 20 kg 250hp axial flux motors available now,I would love to see one put in something like this.
Would be cool if they'd implement a way to recharge it while flying like using the motor as a generator like the hydrogenerator on sailboats or just putting solar panels ontop.
I would think you could add some of those solar film type panels across the length of both wings and add charge back to the batteries, or am I dreaming?? Sounds plausible
Hello Rudi,
It looks like you might have a panel-mounted microphone, instead of a boom microphone. If so, please tell us about it
Raul Boerner
Denver, Colorado, USA
This is cool, it would be interesting if someone could design wings with 1-2kW of solar panels to give even more range.
I am kind of amazed that we have to settle for FES - coming from an rc background the evolution here is that electric is better than all alternatives regarding power and with the right Lipo blend endurance. When will you see the take off and good climb rate as well as at least a two hour battery reserve. I think this is more a hybrid solution. I want one anyhow.. What are other FES gliders besides the HPH Shark/Lark/Electro? Can they be retrofitted with better motors or batteries?
Technically speaking i would say the FES system could be retrofitted into a lot of gliders. But as an economical fact, the maufacturers prefer to sell new gliders instead of retrofits 😉. So if you want to have a plane with certified FES installation, there is almost only the option of a new glider ...
U.s. glider pilot here, excellent video I hope you make more, looking forward to it.
One small language note for you, Motors are reliant upon electricity, Engines are reliant upon combustion. You could say Tesla's have Motors not engines.
Hi thank you for your comment and also for your note! I was not aware of that, thank you 😃👍!
👍Excellent innovative 👏where can I purchase this glider. Thxs.
Nice video. That looks like a lot of fun. Quick question that maybe is a silly one, but would electric propulsion planes be theoretically easier to learn to fly vs conventional propeller powered planes? Was just wondering, in case they catch on... or in case there is an urge to try a sail plane / glider with FES ...
A bit easier in that there is no messing about with engine mixture etc, electric power just works quickly and easily at all heights and temperatures.
It's also more predictable in terms of failure, less to go wrong..
My experience is with rc models and I prefer electric 100%.
Hi Michael, it is not a silly question 😃. I think the handling of the motor is way easier and also easier to learn. To fly the glider/aircraft itself, there is only little impact on that. Thank you for your comment 😃👍
Great video, i wonder if the wings could be coated with the low weight flexible solar panels to slightly increase the range of the battery whilst in flight
Hi Adam, good question. I think it would be basically possible, i only don't know the weight of the solar panels. What i know is, that there is already such a self-built glider with solar panels on the wings, just google Sunseeker Duo. I met this guy once at a meeting.
@@RudisGlidingAdventures Also this one >> th-cam.com/video/9UfDzGyqZvI/w-d-xo.html
@@RudisGlidingAdventuresthe sun seeker duo is a good example of that idea in practice…
@@RudisGlidingAdventuresamazing video, and I wanted to chime in on the solar cells. I have been playing with bonding Maxeon solar cells to various materials. The cells are unbelievably light and about the thickness of paper.
@@davisboring9192 Those are good cells. Aptera is using those for their super efficient solar assisted car.
Great video. Fes would be nice when doing aerobatics to takeoff even in winter for training reasons. Are there gliders authorized for aerobatics that can be equipped with fes system ? Thks
Hi Gwen, puuhh good question. I would assume that some of the gliders are certified for simple aerobatics (looping etc.). I don't think that any is certified for full aerobatics.
Leider geil! ;)
so isses Gregor 😅😅!!
Excellent, the description was very good. The question that arises is whether it is capable at high density altitude airport to self launch or not
Hi Hossein, thank you for your comment! A Silent 2 Electro has been operated in the past in Namibia, at elevations from about 4300ft, with temperatures approximately 35 degrees Celsius. So it is possible, but I do not know any takeoff performances
Under these conditions, it seems to have good capabilities.thanks so much for clarification
@@tomahawk5115 you're welcome 😃
Rudi, this video is incredible! Just subscribed and followed you on instagram.
Thank you, thats great 😀!!
Wou, it looks amazing!
How much does it cost (in Euro) this gem?
I would think this takes care of any real issues concerning get home safely. I would think this becomes standard in the hobby.
Hi Peter, i totally agree. I have now flown with some different type of propulsion systems, but i like the FES most!
Does anyone know what technology is used for the motors set the propellers in the right horizontal position? Motor with an encoder?
Whats the price for this glider and do you need special licence to use it? (also person weight limit)?
it sounds so simple, but other than a flat battery, what else could go wrong?
Have you noticed any degredation in runtime or power after owning this for a couple years?
Remember in electric is not engine is Motor.
Anyway thanks for the video
Hello thank you, yes i have learned it in one of the first comments. As i am not a native speaker, i did not know that but i in future i won't make this mistake again :-) Thank you for your comment!
I'm curious if you could extend the range by putting solar panels on the wings to charge the batteries while gliding. Maybe not very practical, but I am curious. :-)
Hello, i think it would be technically possible. Other considerations come into play, like if you want to have it have it certified, things get more complex :-)
Please describe what the “Fire” circuit breaker does. Thank you.
Hi Drew, this is not a circuit breaker, this is a test knob with which you can check if the system is working. Kind regards, Rudi
@@RudisGlidingAdventures thanks for your answer. As an engineer I I’m interested in for details as to how the fire “system” works. Is it an output from the battery management system? Indicating battery over temperature ?
@@drewwilson1477 Gives both battery temperature and motor temp. along with voltage, amperage, power, rpm. and estimated remaining time at power level being used. Also gives energy level remaining (fuel) in 10% increments and various warnings including canopy open.
It only approve safety in the hands of a skilled in capable pilot who makes decisions based on logic.... Not for power pilots in bad weather......
do they make these with like ultra light solar panels to help charge batteries during glide/thermaling?
Not in serial production, but some days ago I found a website of a project, where some engineers indeed place solar panels on exactly that glider! Very interesting, unfortunately the page is in french:
www.desailespourlaplanete.fr/
Where can i buy a FES glider?
Are you able to mount light Flat solar panels for longer flight.?
Basically yes, according to my information there is a prototype in France, where this has been done already.
Of course, in terms of certification the story is not that easy.
@@RudisGlidingAdventures ok.
Hey how much cost this glider and whats the full name of it? and very nice video
Hello Marcel, the full name is Alisport (=manufacturer) Silent 2 Electro. At the moment they have stopped the production. But from one to time there are used ones on the market, costing +/- 100k EUR depending on equipment, trailer etc.
This is sooo cool! How much do you pay for a Self Startable glider?
Hi, the prices are from about 40.000 eur up to 350.000 eur.
The one in the video is about 100.000 eur.
@@RudisGlidingAdventures dang
Is it perhaps more efficient to use full power and convert all excess power into altitude and then glide with prop folded?
Hi Gabriel, from my experience and according to the hints of the manufacturer it is not. The efficiency of the propeller is increased with a higher diameter and slower rpms.
So in this case this is the most efficient way to fly with a FES equipped aircraft.
@@RudisGlidingAdventures While I agree with your statement in general, there is more to it than just that. I would love to see empirical flight data. One flight with "steady state" low power cruise, and one with "dolphin flying" of high power climbs and prop folded glides. I think which one flies longer might surprise you ;) FYI I build and fly my own electric aircraft :) th-cam.com/video/7xlrJ5kRm98/w-d-xo.html
@@RudisGlidingAdventures Did you ever get a chance to do any testing on this?
great video! The only thing I am concerned about is the distance of the propeller from the ground. It seems so close to the runway.
Hi Bogdan, I understand your concern but in reality it isn't that bad. The tail needs to be about 50cm up in the air, before the propeller would touch the ground.
I will cover that topic in one of my next videos 😀.
Thank you for your comment 😃👍
@@RudisGlidingAdventures the main concern for me is with the Lak how it's tail likes to bounce during roll. For the Lak I would want a paved runway for self launching, always. If they come up with a shock absorber for the tail wheel then it would work better. And I'm seriously interested in it in the future.
What a great system!! What is the total weight gain?
Hi, thank you! The weight gain is approximately 30kg from the batteries and 7kg for engine, propeller and wiring
@@RudisGlidingAdventures that’s great 👍
so if the wings were plastered with solar panels it could barely maintain level flight in direct sun?
Thats an interesting question. I think there is a project in france of a guy who is doing exactly this!
How much power is required to sustain flight?I have an electric Bosch motor 3.5kw and 110 ftlbs of torque from electric motorcycle.Battery 3kwh.Could this sustain level flight?
Hi, for level flight are approximately 4-5kW are required ... it seems like your motor is just a little too less powerful 🫤
So how high can you climb with the FES and updrafts? I was hoping you were going for 10,000ft / 3000M
Totally depends on the updrafts! They often last here up to 2500m or more. So use the FES to get to the thermal and use the updraft to get higher :-)
What is the Make / Model of this sailplane? Thanks.
I believe it is a “silent 2 electro”
Are ampère - climate curves available for FES gliders?
Hi Roel, maybe, but I do not have any.
how many ?
Is this better than the pipistrel one with retracting propellor?
Hi, I would say it depends on your preference. Probably every system has its Pro's and Con's. But I personally like the quick-reacting engine without propeller-extract-delay more than other systems
@@RudisGlidingAdventures good point thanks
Is a power rating required to operate legally? Microlight license?
Hi Julian, here in Austria we are allowed to fly either with a microlight license or a glider pilot license in combination with selflauncher rating
If only you had some solar panels or thin film solar panels in the wings.
The statement "there is more power with a full battery" is only applicable to systems which are not engineered to provide full power even at low SOC. It is not inherent to all EV systems.
Thank you for your comment! I didn't know that!
its lipo man whether youre near the end or at cut off it really doesnt make a lot of difference
Why don't they add solar pannels to the air craft to charge batteries in flight ..Just make them part of the wing ...
Let’s say I want to scale this glider into an 3m glider, how much kv the motor should be?
Hello, good question, unfortunately i am not the manufacturer of this propulsion system. So i have no clue 😊!
Is there a two place version of this glider?
No, unfortunately not
@@RudisGlidingAdventures Darn, maybe someday
How much that glider cost.
Why is it registered as D-M and not D-K?
Hi, this has historic reasons ... the original Silent was designed as microlight some decades ago. The Silent 2 Electro originated from that design with the same certification. Last but not least the lightweigt design makes it possible to do a selflaunch with the FES system, which is only certified for sustaining the flight in D-K planes
Wait till you feel wind on the back of your neck then jump inside and take off.... Climb with the thermal and save electricity
How much is this plane ?
Hi, approx 100-120 without VAT, depending on Avionics
This will do wonders for the hairline of glider pilots, plus it will not be as grey.
Haha, yes that might be! But i get some grey hair already too :-)
@@RudisGlidingAdventures I'm on the way [ grey ] This is my 1 liner for it "Grey hair is like bicycle helmets, it doesn't look so bad on other people " LOL.
@Just me. 😂😂
what if you fix solar panel on it
So much weight with the battery. Is a gas version significantly more complicated or less smooth in activating a propeller on demand?
Warum eine M- und keine K-Kennung?
Hallo, ist eine lange Geschichte. Hängt damit zusammen, dass die "Ur-Silent" bereits als UL konzipiert wurde und die Zulassung nach wie vor auf dem ersten Modell beruht.
why don't they make solar panels on the wings?
Hi Martin, it seems that outside of the producer a group of engineers is indeed putting solar panels on the wing of a Silent 2 Electro:
www.desailespourlaplanete.fr/
@@RudisGlidingAdventures wow nice ;p
A glider is so much better with propulsion. Not a slave to thermals.
Imagine the efficiency of a glider combined with small turbofan jet engines and pressurized cabin flying mach 0.8 at 60000feet super efficiently. The freedom to go anywhere and fast and cheaper than driving a car. It's interesting that it's possible to fly unpowered but it's super useless. But the efficiency and engineering discipline of the glider world should be adopted. Cessnas are awful.
If it's powered, it may do a lot of gliding, but t's not a glider.
This guy's got a German accent ! ...
Economical? At what cost? Limited to what kind of weather? Ugh!
Self launch glider ?? More like I don't know a plane ??
wieder ein Deutscher, der meint, Englisch quatschen zu müssen.
Warum eigentlich??
Muy bonito y va bien, pero no tiene las Células Solares para Recarga de la Batería, lo que permite volar muchas horas, sin estar enganchado al puto enchufe en tierra.
Who is the manufacturer of this glider? Very cool! Great video!
Hello, the manufacturer of this glider was Alisport company in Italy. The production movement some years ago to Alisport Swiss in Switzerland.