Why D&D Ripped Off It's Own Game | Dungeons And Dragons: Heroes 2003
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2023
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In 2003 Dungeons and Dragons chose to respond it's surprise hit 'Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance'... by creating a competing product in hopes that it could steal the Dark Alliance audience to play a different Hack & Slash series instead.
Okay, but like, why? WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING???
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Video released, now I'm gonna go hang out with my new Frost Worm GF
Please do D&D Demon Stone.
Those games were still more fun than BG3, as beyond the eye-candy and intro, it is the same dish once again. Sadly, you ain't into World of Darkness, else you could compare the Xbox & Playstation `Hunter the Reckoning´ games. 😉
Some lesser hints: Bows are for pussies. Rogues don't excel with them the way Arcane Archers do. Also: Daggers and shortswords do piercing damage, use a bashing weapon (light mace, club, cudgel, baton) in one hand, so you do 2 damage types. Imagine piercing a stone elemental with a dagger or foil, instead of bashing it with a sledge hammer. Plus: If there is no stealth option, it is not your fault, otherwise go, hide & sneak! Now, get the six mana potions reading this made you crave. 😉
Have to ask, did you ever play Birthright: Gorgons Alliance? It was one of my favorites when I was younger
Eye of the beholder when?
So if you do all the yuan-ti's quests do you get the snussy?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@@WilliamSRDhey, I was curious if you’d do a video on Birthright: The Gorgon’s Alliance? Love your takes :)
@@Bklyn93Hell yes I recently did a playthrough of it. Ended up cornering and killling The Gorgon 😏
Yuan-ti with legs? Impossible!
Redemption of a mana potion addict. A truly harrowing tale.
Time to bring out the D.A.R.E. video.
I was thinking of Leo from the Basketball Diaries "it hurts, it hurts! Just one more, please!"
The CK2 feudalism chart got me laughing
Haha, I knew someone would get it!
LIDDA MY WAIFU! I had no idea she actually made it into a video game! For those who don't know 3.0/3.5 had a group of 'Iconic' characters that represented the classes, and you can play them as pregens at events. Lidda was the iconic Rogue, and man was the art team in love with her as much as I was! They actually started out in Greyhawk, before being moved to a forgotten setting called Ghostwalk, and stared in a book series set there, before being brought back to Greyhawk. Pathfinder continues that tradition with their own iconics.
Hah, I somehow missed that was Lidda! Probably because she never really left any impression on me. She definitely isn't as generic as Vadania, but she can't compare to Ember, let's be real.
There were Ghostwalk novels?
FBI OPEN UP!!!!
SNEAK ATTACK!
Lidda, Regdar, Jozan, Eberk, Mialee, Tordek... 😊
The history of DnD licensing could be used as the basis of a plot of dynastic intrigue for a DnD campaign...
Officially endorsing a VTT version of your tabletop game is so refreshing for a publisher
Will discovered what is like being a blood elf.
My Guy got hooked on that mana
It's really no surprise that corporate greed prevents people from having nice things. A tale as old as time itself.
No, a tale as old as capitalism...
Greed is older than capitalism.
@@Salantor greed yes, but not corporate greed. 🤓
Capitalism really does just get in the way of human experience by manufacturing a completely artificial profit motive.
We made up the line AND made up that it must go up at any cost.
Capitalism really does just get in the way of human experience by manufacturing a completely artificial profit motive.
We made up the line AND made up that it must go up at any cost.
Wait! This game existed?! This game is a fever dream for me, when I was a kid I saw this on the shelf and I even looked it up later on and couldn't find it... So I forgot all about it, yet here it is.
Wow, this game looks like hot garba - oh, hey, hey, it's Lidda! Look, it's Lidda! The 3rd edition iconic rogue character! Hey Lidda!
LIDDA it's the 3.0 iconic herself, talk about nostalgia
I'm proud of you buddy. Mana abuse is no joke. Don't stop going to the meetings though, relapse is a hell of a thing.
I didn't realize there was any debate over how big and/or important NWN was. It won numerous Game of the Year award, sold millions of copies, and got universally glowing reviews. Its DM/Client feature was the precursor to VTTs, and the many Persistent Worlds made with it were among the most successful MOGs of their time, and many are still operating to this day. And it introduced countless thousands to user-generated content, that was freely shared on the Neverwinter Vault and spurred many to become developers and game creators. I can't imagine anyone that would honestly call it an unimportant game.
Yeah, it's more of a fringe position that I stumble across a surprising amount when reading up on more scholarly accounts of D&D gaming history. Usually the reasoning follows something along the lines of Neverwinter Nights coming out after the great CRPG age had basically ended, and failed to really keep it going.
And sure, I guess that's true to a degree, but the game was still wildly influential!
One thing that gets often overlooked is how important NWN was to D&D at the time. 3rd edition was notoriously complex to referee on the tabletop, and I much preferred to use the DM client in NWN to run games because the engine handled a lot of the bookkeeping rather well, and the community made scripts and content that could be crafted into a pretty good scenario to match your actual game. I bought several copies just for multiplayer and world hosting.
"It's honestly kind of hard to fuck up D&D music, but it does happen on occasion"
_That one Dark Sun game_
Have you considered doing Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone? I loved that game so so much even though it was way too hard for me at every age I played it.
16:53 That jiggly barmaid is what got me interested in d&d all those years ago. Still got my copy of Heroes, DA2 was so much better though except the 4p co-op.
I played this co-op when it came out, my friend knew the innkeeper was the villain as soon as he was introduced!
Shadow Run and World of Darkness in the future? Amazing!
would love to see an indepth history on the old battletech games. i mean you can find the game reviews here on youtube but they don't go indepth on backstage development issues and other gossip like that.
I remember picking it up, and enjoying it, especially after going through Brotherhood of Steel on the Xbox. And then, shortly after, I picked up my first Dark Alliance game, Dark Alliance 2.
Yeah, Heroes didn't see that much more action afterwards. When I had three friends over it took priority as an option. When only one buddy was over, we broke out Dark Alliance 2.
I just became a Patreon member. I've been on TH-cam since it started and I've never wanted to see a channel grow more than this one. Great work every time, man!
Thanks so much for being here for so long! So cool to hear from the OGs!
I appreciate the CK2 title rings around the feudal studios. Nice touch!
Can't remember the name of it, but I had a Forgotten realms PC game that was a Trine clone, of all things. A Drow rogue, a something wizard, and a Dwarf? fighter, and you hotswapped between the three. I remember its ending was something about a dragon attacking a keep, there was a river raft section where you were under attack by yaun'tee, but I mostly remember that unlike Trine, if you took rogue you could just brute force everything.
Forgotten Realms: Demonstone - I think.
That's Demonstone my friend
Just going to put this here for general info's sake, Demon Stone predates Trine
I've always been a 'why not both' over an either/or kinda guy. So I'm someone who still loves and cherishes old copies of Dark Alliance 1/2 'and' Dungeons and Dragons: Heroes.
That said, it makes me big sad the ONLY way I can still play Heroes is my ancient OG Xbox copy of the game. Wish it'd cropped up on a backwards compatible list or something. The sheer number of old games we lose forever, without preservation, is sad.
Troika games mentioned ive been sated for the day
I remember kid me not being interested in Temple of Elemental Evil the moment I heard it wasn't set in the Forgotten Realms.
I'd grown attached to that setting and world, and I'd rather play a game set in Turmish than one set in another universe.
It was long enough ago I'm struggling to remember why, but I remember actually enjoying this one much more than Dark Alliance.
One of the reasons may have been that sure Heroes wasn't as visually detailed, but I think Dark Alliance hit a sort of uncanny valley for me. It's animations and voice acting weren't up to par with it's visuals, making it somehow feel more artificial, or at least more distractingly so than Heroes felt.
I can't remember for sure but I think Dark Alliance also had a slightly slow, floatiness to it's controls while Heroes felt more grounded despite the absurd infinite potion chugging and what must've been an invisible bag of holding for every single tool type. Though I can't tell if my mind is just making up reasons at this point.
Fantastic video, as always. I loved the personal story arc you had. I’ve actually experienced this in other games.
Most memorably in Lufia 2. After you do the Old Cavea bunch, you are so stingy on your consumables forever!
Young me was SOOOO upset when Heroes didn't come out on GameCube
I never knew Infogrames was even still around in any form. I always assumed there were simply no more grames being made nowadays.
Nope, they're the ones behind all the awful and terrible shit Atari has been up to the last like couple decades.
My copy of this game is staring me down from across the room right now as it sits next to my original xbox. It may have a stupid reason as to why it exists, but I'm glad it does. One of my favorite childhood memories comes from playing this with my older brother. While there may be better options, I'm always gonna love this game, and I always find it to be one of the games I go back to every now and then.
Wow, I remember playing D&D Heroes, as a kid on the OG Xbox and I remember it being pretty fun as a kid, it made me peek into the world of D&D so that's something, I also realized I feel old 2003 was somethin' else back then.
I miss the classic Dark Alliance games and I hate how the recent Dark Alliance game was an utter failure and was poorly optimized, even on consoles.
Didn't think this video would drop me headfirst into a session of Crusader Kings, but there you go
I LOVED couch co op with my siblings. this also wasn't able to be played on the 360, so it got lost.
That's kinda hilarious, I'm a HUGE fan of Snowblind's games and I thought this was some Snowblind Engine game that passed me by somehow, so a month or so ago I hunted down a copy of it and have been playing it on 360 (which has awful performance sadly) and it felt similar, but way more primitive. I like it though.
The hilarious part is that this would pop up and set me straight on where it came from such a short period after I'd tracked it down.
I never knew about this game and I even had an ps2 and xbox at the time.
Also this reminded me of two games by snowblind that have not seen the light of day for some time even if Dark Alliance 1&2 has, the two I am talking about is champions of norrath 1&2 I played those as much as I did DA1&2 but it seems they might be too bogged down with who ever owns them now.
Ah, Shadowrun.
I love thee from afar, for none of my friends were as enchanted by your world as I.
Hasbro makes me think of Got Milk?
No question mark though, it's a definitive Has Bro.
I really liked D&D heroes. I forgot what this game was called. It was my favorite version of the dark alliance/baldur's gate games of the era because it was 4 players, and you could switch your skills without messing up the other people playing. I agree that it needed more depth, but I played through it a bunch of times as the 4 different characters. I always wanted an update that would have something similar where I could mess with my skills or inventory without pausing the action. I don't remember much about the game, but I remember having fun picking the skills that were useful. I remember loving the rogue the best though. Daggers FTW.
It doesn't always make sense to raise someone who is a hero. In D&D death isn't the end and we know explicitly where good people go. Maybe they won't want to come back regardless
I was excited about Dragonstrike until you said it was a table-top game. I want a flight sim Dragonstrike.
a real journey with this one, bewildered by the snussy ( both snake and snow) and overcame the mana addiction! great video as always!
I gotta say, this video was just genuinely funny. It's not something I usually feel the need to point out, but I really like your sense of humor.
That bit about the mana addiction was honestly well written and had me in stitches.
At some point you are going to make videos on Battletech stuff?! This news brings me great joy :)
Man, as soon as Hasbro came up, "oh boy what did they do this time?" Immediately popped into my head.
"dragonstrike" flightsim game on tableop is like that HL:Alyx mod that makes it playable without VR. I see the effort and passion but I just can't get past the "Why?"
Because fun😅
@@mementomori771 I meant as a tt version of "dragonstrike" as a flightsim game, not a tt game with aerials, latter would be fun, former sounds like torture :P
it is a Dragonriders aerial combat game.. just a “spiritual” follower.. not the video game on tabletop.. totally original mechanics and concept
Snake girls.
10/10
Ice girls.
10/10
Gonna be honest, i understood you. If a woman ask you to kill ice golems, sometimes you gotta do it. Nice work this year! I don't even play D&D but i love your videos.
a youtuber with a relevant sponsor for something they're actually excited for? Loved your presentation, had to check it out
I can't see knee-deep pools of water with infinitely propagating ripples without thinking of Dark Alliance, so some of these clips are really messing with my head.
YES! Me and my friend played BGDA and always called it the Dark Alliance water when we saw it in other games.
Gosh I miss those old Dark Alliance games. I spent so much time waiting and hoping for an answer to the cliffhanger at the end of 2, but as far as I know, it never came. I suppose I finally have an idea why though given interplays mismanagement and infogrames powergrab.
i really appreciate the use of CK2 character borders for differentiating the corporate hierarchy
Dark Alliance, Heroes, and Champions of Norrath was my childhood. Starting with Norrath. Not dnd but made by Snowblind so yeah. So much fun but heroes was ultimately the one I played least
Wow I played dragon-strike in 1990 I waited so long, It was a IBM computer game
We did too! And loved it. We are so excited to bring Dragon Dueling to life 30 years later...
Dragon Strike aka Dragon Knight STALINGRAD! Love that review of your. Thank to you now i can't shake off this image in my head.
"ONE KNIGHT OUT OF TWO WILL GET TO RIDE A DRAGON! THE KNIGHT WITH A DRAGON, ATTACK! THE ONE WITHOUT, FOLLOWS!
WHEN THE DRAGON RIDER FALL! THE NEXT KNIGHT RIDE THE DRAGON AND ATTACK!
IT'S EITHER VICTORY OR DEATH!
THOSE WHO RETREAT WILL BE SHOT!
THERE WILL BE NO MERCY FOR COWARDS AND TRAITORS!"
lol
Is this whole thing why we got champions of norrath with the same damn menus and ui as dark Alliance?
Champions of Norrath uses the Everquest IP not D&D. The reason why the menus and all work similarly to Dark Alliance is because both games were developed by Snowblind Studios.
@@TheBayzent I am aware. That is what I meant. They lost the dnd ip so the subbed in EverQuest
25:39 - This bit was very, very funny. Loved it. 10/10. Much respect, and please come to Brazil.
Saw this on my feed a couple of hours after it uploaded. I was confused as to why I didn't get a notification. Turns out I'd somehow unsubscribed? Anywho, I've resubbed, clicked the notification bell, and this is a comment. Keep up the great work, man, you're videos are consistently awesome!
I've actually played most of these games in my childhood. I have fond memories of playing Heroes with my whole family. It's nice to see that people remember this game.
Yay one of my favourite nerds posted again. Great early Christmas gift.
Its voice acting is far better than Dark Alliance 1 was for sure. Might try this out next time im itching for dark alliance
love all the vids i've seen here. thank you for saying that you'll get to shadowrun and battletech at some point. fun to learn of the video games to all the tabletop games i love
Hey @WilliamSRD, it's "its" in the title :)
I’d love videos on Dark Alliance.
Oh boy! I do love me a story of corporate feudalism and backstabbing!
In all seriousness, good video William!
Subscribed because you said eventually you'd get around to Battletech.
I always wanted EotB 2&3 on GBA in the same style. It’s still got a lot of the same spirit, but the rules behind it are 3.5(ish, more like 3.25), and the combat, instead of the first person poke-a-thing, are more in line with SSI’s Gold Box games, which allowed for bigger fights than the original engine could muster. To me, that was and will always be the best version of Eye of the Beholder, and thus if it was the whole trilogy, would be the best Forgotten Realms game, hands down.
Honestly I'd love it if you did a neverwinter nights campaign review, if you did it for fan campaigns too you might have plenty of content to work with. I love the game and it's definetly a big part of dnd game history. People still make good rp communities and campaigns for it to this very day.
I know it's not totally connected to DnD, but do you ever think you'll cover that Champions of Norrath Everquest game? For some reason around the time Dark Alliance came out, there was just a huge amount(Comparably)of Diablo like games coming to console. Dark Alliance 1 and 2, The Bard's Tale, Dungeons And Dragons: Heroes, Champions of Norrath and more.
I played DA 1 and 2, and The Bard's Tale, but none of then others, and I'd be curious to learn about them.
Huh, Champions of Norrath was actually made by the same team that made Dark Alliance, Snowblind as well.
Honestly, I might do it when after cover Dark Alliance, since they're so connected
I've played the LOTR one a (War in the North) few years back and it is also pretty good, although apparently it's broken on new OS's
@@TheBayzent I actually played that last year I think, it was alright.
24:24 - Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well
Doubt you will comment but are you ever going to cover the champions of norrath series?
Dnd is more mainstream and popular today than it has ever been. I am surprised you couldn’t find someone to play with. Nieces and nephews usually love games.
I remember having this on the Xbox, played it with my best friend growing up
A different take on the same idea is basically what D&D is. Seems legit.
You said Battletech. Now the Clanners are going to show up and Batchal you.
Came across this channel today and I hate it already cause it keeps giving me ideas for more games to buy instead of finishing the ones I already have haha
Replaying kiss from a rose over the ice wurm is why I continue to watch your videos even when you go into systems I don't like like WoD.
I remember Dragon Strike being a VHS game.
Yes there was a heroquest style boardgame called dragonstrike that came with an intro VHS...that one had nothing to do with dragonriding :)
I owned and played the game; I enjoyed it but not something I'd rave about.
Seal track had me dying
I'm so ready for a Temple of Elemental Evil retrospective.
Heroes had one major advantage. It was 4 players.
oh my god, Eye of the Beholder. that game was my jam, HA. Good Times!!
This game was a lot of fun. Used to play it with three buddies and a bunch of beer. Good times.
12:29 Much like literally everything with 3.0/3.5 The only Greyhawk info you got was the very basics on the gods. And even then, many were stripped of their ties to main ethnicity/nation/state who worshiped them. Nothing about Hextor and Heironeus being tied to the Great Kingdom, or Wee Jas being tied to the Suel.
Man, I beat it, but I really didn't care for the bareboned hack and slash that was Dark Alliance.
champions of norath return to arms was a bit better but, eh.
The jank is part of the Troika experience
Merry xmas Will!!!
Anyone else think this type of game deserves a comeback? An online multiplayer mode would be great. Plus, at least after the first game, they can be made pretty cheaply. Just a fun, basic co-op game. The return of COUCH co-op. Something like this would THRIVE on GAMEPASS.
Think about it: you re-use the motion capture data from the first installment, and publish it in chapters. It would actually make a SEASON PASS worthwhile.
D&D Licensing is pain and suffering.
Battletech Licensing is where Cenobites come from.
I can't beleive I missed this game.
Honestly I preferred Heroes to DA. DA2 was okay but Champions of Norrath was more fun.
14:06 - "Matador stuff". I laughed.
Thank you so much for still being willing to say all the shit TH-cam won't allow. Because everyone knows the best way to fight evil, is to ignore it and pretend like nothing bad ever happens ever! It's the American way!
We Need To Talk About Hasbro is something that like Robert Reich would say if he was Tilda Swinton.
All they had to do was wait until the newest Dark Alliance game to release out and then watch it die. And thanks for the heads-up about Dragon Strike. :)
Glad DragonStrike picked your interest...its coming soon!
Great video as usual! But it's pronounced Boo-lay.
I think the "modern audience" is also a fiction. Twitter outrage from people who would never spend money on the product in the first place shouldn't be catered to. Also, SPOT ON about how Dark Sun is anti-slavery. Hopefully WotC tanks D&D to the point where it gets sold off to people who will better handle it. And tap into some of these fantastic ideas that have been left by the wayside.