Josh, I wish you the best in this endevor. This is an important market to serve, and IMO this is the best way to do it: Charging posts with a "bring your own cable." However, now that SAE J3400 standard is now available we have a standardized solution for North America. J3400 is based on Europe's proven solution with Type 2 (Mennekes) outlet that locks the charge cable in place when charging. It also reads a resistor in the cable to determine the max ampacity of the cable. This is important as the EVSE and the EV may both be capable of more current than the cable. Going a non-standard route with a J1772 plug at both ends of the cable will be a dead end, requiring specialized cables. In Europe, EV owners only need one cable to work with any charge point. We don't want to get into a situation where EV owners need multiple cables to charge at different charge points.
I commented on your original video about this. I really really REALLY hope you find success with this endeavour. It is a fantastic idea that addresses a major flaw in the America EV infrastructure.
Looking at your product idea for a European perspective, I‘m scratching my head why it took so long adapt such a concept in the US. Wish you all the best by bringing charging to more households, that otherwise solely relay on public charging.
Single family homes... that's what... Most of the more modern homes are in the Hollywood kind of cul-de-sac single family suburbs with garages. Most EV manufacturers, and technically most industries, don't advertise to the more urban places... like cities...
Great innovation. When I work for DelcoElectronics, we used to use a product to coat the circuit boards to help them last in potentially wet environments for automobiles.
@@chargeeverywhere It was actually a poured clear coating that was poured into the engine control module case to protect the circuit board for under the hood applications. Today they are in the passenger compartment under the dash so not as protected. I think a conformal spray coating would work well for your application.
@@chargeeverywhere Well most circuit boards with any kind of environmental exposure use some kind of conformal or epoxy coating. I assumed that's what you'd do with Gen2.
You haven't addressed the financial side of this for the providers with posts and users other than themselves. How is all that going to work from start to finish? Including but not limited to initial investments, software, networking, data hosting, security (anti thievery), safety, payments/payouts etc. If you have a solid business model in place than this looks like it may have a great future. Especially if you switch over to the NACS plugs or at least give people the option to use it instead. It is the future.
At 7:13 , Open EVSE sounds like a sensible source for open source design. Some start-ups try to develop proprietary IP which costs a lot and takes years. If you can avoid re-inventing stuff by using existing EVSE components, you can focus on the core issue of designing a cost-effective bollard. ☮️
Great video and great Projekt. I even see this as a big benefit for Europe. In smaller city’s street charging/destination is a big problem. Here In my 10.000 citizen town in Germany we only have one public charger. The biggest problem i see (at least in Germany) is that between the private property and the curb you always have the sidewalk.
If I were you from a marketing perspective I would push this to apartments because no other company is focusing on that market in level 2 charging maybe offer to install the posts at your local apartment building at a lower install cost to get a proof of concept to show how your product works to build interest
Maybe not in the US but there are literally hundreds of brands doing just that with Mennekes/Type 2 plugs - which is the preferred cable for NACS as well. So just import those units and Type2-1 and Type2-NACS cables.
@@mark123655 one problem with that plan in the us we 120v architecture for low powered level 2 charging different than in the EU and the rest of the world I don't think an European companies care enough to redesign thier posts for the us as it costs too much money which means these guys have a lock on the market in the us
@@justinjones6810 Suspect it's pretty minimal changes. From what I've seen of internals not much different between a US and European Tesla wall "charger". There isn't a huge amount to them, the car charger does the conversion.
I thought the J1772 spec did not allow for detachable cables on both ends which is why the NACS standard went with the Minnekes for detachable cables on one end and NACS or J1772 on the other. Are you planning on switching to Minnekes later on?
I think this is a very compelling idea. I wonder about the regulatory response from local government. I've spent much of my career trying to get local governments to approve all sorts of projects. It's challenging. Even when they have no legal authority to do so, they frequently stand in the way of anything new, innovative or just different than what they are used to. good luck
1:10 I agree with your opinion here. We need safe charging. 9:28 esp32 controller, ardruino, mature support 12:49 easy solution against condensation: coat the electronics in epoxy, or silicone. IMO: this is very good simple solution! Next add payment; this way neighbors can use it too.
I'd be interested to know your thinking on demand - nearly all your stock shots show residential areas where people are most likely going to have garages. I would still think the major demand for this would be in more urban environments where street parking is the norm and people don't have driveways.
I mentioned you're product on the Batteries Included podcast chat today and brought it to the attention of Tom Moloughney from "State of Charge". Getting him involved and supportive will be important in your future success.
Very interesting! I kinda love this and think it would be amazing if every house had something like this near the street! However, I haven’t heard you address how the person who installs the system might be reimbursed for power used by others (potentially just random people). In a perfect world this would be powered by batteries that are storing power from solar, but even that comes with costs. I guess it could be turned off and on from a simple switch or relay in the house, but I still can envision issues if it’s near the street and open to the public. I would like to hear if there are plans for managing access to the system and how that might work. Like say I wanted it open to all comers from 8am to 5pm but wanted it reserved for a neighbor who wants to charge overnight. Will it be possible to collect a modest fee to cover electricity and maintenance?
Very excited to see progress! These would be very nice alongside a driveway, too. Much more discreet and attractive than 24 feet of hanging thick black cable. And the double plug cable would give me something useful to put in that lower trunk cubby.
Sounds like you could add a lighting system for the public use version. Like a status light of sorts. Or even a yard lighting. (this could be expanded to be suitable for various other equipment that's getting electrified, like lawn mowers and stuff...)
I'm from the UK, we probably have different electrical requirements but exporting a ground outside of the property to a remote location like that is a no-no, you would put a local ground rod in, or use a device which disconnects the ground under fault conditions. Might not be an issue in the USA, as here in lots of urban environments you use the suppliers neutral as ground.
An earth rod is not a reliable current return path to source in a fault condition. Using a neutral (grounding conductor) as an equipment grounding conductor is exceptionally hazardous as a neutral carries return current in its normal operation. This energizes the equipment case and may provide a return path to source that passes through a person in a fault condition. Therefore in the US an egc ground earth lead is mandatory even if there is a rod since about 1999. This connection is kept separate from the neutral. In this video, no neutral is present at all as the whole 240v split phase is utilized with two 120v hots. Where you are, likely you always use a neutral with your single 240v hot lead. If you are using the neutral as an earth ground return path and it is tied to the outlet casing and there is a ground rod there. Imagine if the return neutral wire came loose at the main panel and then you touch both the outlet casing and the main panel casing while the outlet is energized. You become the favorable return path over the ground rod. I'm always shocked how complex electrical wiring can be. 😅
Hello, for your mk2 unit, consider the following: 1. J3400 has intrinsic to it a standardization of the euro-style plugin post that you're trying to provide in North America. Please use it instead of your 3d-printed J1772 and bespoke dual-ended J1772 cable. It should likely become a consumer product in the long term, a J3400 J1772 dumb cable and J3400 J3400 dumb cable. 2. For airing out + environmental protection, consider placing a 5-sided cube sleeve on top of the post that is toggled by pressing down and releasing, kind of like the soft close release of a cassette eject or some kitchen drawers, it would have to have enough push to fully raise the cube sleeve to open position, and it would have slits at the bottom to allow for airflow when in closed position. The post would also need relief holes to allow for airflow.
Love your videos, but I have a few potential problems for you to think about. One is that on tight sidewalks, bicyclists and those with baby strollers may not appreciate having a bunch of extra posts added to the already busy sidewalk, as they may present as obstacles. I know bicyclists aren't supposed to ride off of the sidewalk, but it's common for them to need to hug one side of the sidewalk or the other to accommodate passing someone, or debris, or a recycling bin in the way. I could see a backpack strap easily getting caught on an extra pole. Secondly, while sharing with others is lovely, this will only work if you install a bunch of them in a row. If my only EVSE is out on the street, and someone else occupies it for hours, and I need to charge so I can go somewhere, I'm not going to be very happy. So these can't really be installed as onesies by individuals, or you're just inviting random strangers to come and disrupt your day randomly. If you have an interview to get to, or a wedding, that's really not ideal. People depend on their cars. That's why the best EVSE is a private one that is dedicated to you, in a garage or on the side of a freestanding house. For everyone else, they have these complex problems to solve. In my opinion, the best public EVSE design is an EVSE that doesn't take up any additional space. Building one into a mailbox, or a light post, or a bollard that's already on the street, is really the ideal. Dedicating a new pole/pylon to EVSE doesn't make best use of limited space in cities.
your points all seem quite incorrect seeing as how this is already done just fine in Europe (where they bike _wayyy_ more than in the US) and they don't seem to have a problem with availability. Saying they "will only work if you install a bunch of them in a row" is also just making the problem worse. It's why people think there isn't enough ev charging infra in america already, because they think there's never enough. Any increase in the number is good. The problem is not about having enough. It's about not paying for other people to charge their car, hence the wifi for a payment system.
Thanks for the update. In Europe, some companies including Ubitricity are talking about installing slow chargers in existing street lighting poles, which you show at 5:38 along with various dedicated charging devices. That addresses a different market where the charger is provided by a utility. Nevertheless, that product might be a useful reference for your business model of a curbside charger owned by the homeowner. ☮️
I wonder would it make more sense for the local council to own the "chargers", but on loan to the nearby apartment owners... with a separate pay-per-charge program.
OpenEVSE, nice! I made one of their DIY kits and did custom cables. Project's looking interesting. I expect NACS (J3400/Not Awful Charging Standard) will be best/necessary going forward.
ee here you will need a weatherproof well in use cover in order to comply with the NEC national electric code. You can view the electrical code for free online the NFPA has a free version they hide it but they are required to provide it. See NEC 406.10 (B) (2) A receptacle installed in a wet location where the product influenced to be plugged into is not attended well in use shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof with the attachment plug cap inserted or removed
Is a J1772 connector classed as a receptacle? It's got a contactor and control board upstream of it, and the contacts are inert except for the ELV control pilot until negotiation is complete.
If you want to get the word out about the MK2 there are some great TH-cam channel to collab with for example the now you know channel with Zack and Jessie.
Great video showing your thinking process. One issue that may be difficult to deal with is that many municipalities will not allow the power connection to cross onto their right-o-way. It would be interesting to see a video on how you dealt with the permits both from the municipal authorities and your electric utility company.
If Europe can do it then we can make it happen IF we want to make it happen. I’m sure EV haters will come out with plenty of excuses like right o way to make it not happen
I think you mean easements. Rights-of-way generally end at the curb or roads edge in the vast majority of situations. Also depends on whether a street is public or private. And before a video on permitting, he needs to provide a viable business model with certain financial safeties and securities accounted for. All is for nothing without that at this stage.
A simple fix to your water/electronics is to not keep them in the post. Just keep them at ke near the breakerbox or someplace otherwise protectes from the elements. I would not keep the😊 electronics in the post.
Also you get the added benefit of the. The power lines running to the post are not being powered at all. It should be way safer. You also will still which is . missing local disconnect.
Theoretically they won't be able to steal the cable while it's in use, since the J1772 plug can be locked by the vehicle. That won't stop them from just taking some bolt cutters to both ends of course, but hopefully the 240v shock will at least stop them from trying it twice. ⚡
Because anyone could just roll up with their RV, park on the street in front of your house, and get free electricity. The EVSE circuitry lets you manage who has access to the electricity, whether that's by paying for it, or being part of a collective where you share the system.
@@sebinlee221 I think the entire purpose of this project is to normalize this type of charging, which is already common in Europe. If everyone is responsible for their own cable, there is lower liability for the municipalities and they may be more inclined to allow things like this to use public right of way. And if these are commonplace, then it won't matter if someone parked in "your" spot, just park at the next available one and plug in.
@@sebinlee221 an RV relies on those standard NEMA connections. They aren't likely to have a J1772 connection like an EV, but if they did, they're free to pay to charge or use the power however they like. You just need some way to limit access to those who are authorized, and a NEMA plug does not provide that without extra hardware. You might as well put in something that natively supports access control, which an EVSE can support easily.
@@joeyhazlett he mentioned a control board, you should be able to turn the power on and off from the app. The plug type shouldn't matter. Anyone with an evse cable could roll up, plug in and get free power too.
The "bring your own cable" model is a good one. However as many people have a portable evse have you looked at a 14-50 to cool ev adapter? The posts are probably the easier sell. The cable will probably be more difficult. i need to learn to listen to the whole video before commenting. The evse circuitry is in the post and you litterally just need a cable. My bad
I got a curiosity question, I do love the idea. How would you prevent people just parking beside it on the street and not plugging in, since it’s the street itself probably legal for anyone to park beside it. They could theoretically park for weeks on end making it impossible for you to charge urself or allow others to utilize it.
Problem with this is it basically your personal charger on the street. Someone has to use it for 10 hours. A cheap fast charger would be best they should be cheaper too. Nxu uses a battery to charge at 400v, avoiding expensive equipment
Why you don't use Type 2 socket? I'ts more convenient when you have locker inside socket. In EU I always use Type 2- Typr 2 cable for my Hyundai EV but for Fiat 500E I use Type 2 - Type 1 ( J1771).
SAE J3400 cables have provision to lock the cable to the post when charging, and most EVs will also lock the cable to the car. This is the same method as used in Europe.
What cable do you use to go from the post to the car? Most chargers have the cable go directly from the charger, so did you have to custom make a J1772 cable on both ends? Any plans for NACS?
The telescoping, retractable pole is my favorite idea. May not be as practical, or cost effective, and have significantly more points of failure, but dang it’s cool. Even a discreet pole will probably the draw ire of the nEVers, but I think that even the naysayers would be somewhat mesmerized by a charger that deploys from the ground.
The OpenEVSE is the payment device controller, and J1772 is ubiquitous, whereas NEMA outlets vary (14-30, 14-50, 6-50, etc.) so you'd need to carry a set of adapters with you anyway.
We have a somewhat similar approach, with a key difference in business philosophy. itselectric owns its chargers and needs to make that make economic sense for them. In other words, a single user may not provide sufficient incentive for them to install. Plus, there will be a markup on energy used going back to itselectric. We will sell the chargers to homeowners, businesses, etc. This gives folks the power to put them where they need them. We think we serve somewhat different market segments.
Totally understand your concern, I had the same thought myself. What I found though is the extension cables you can get go up to like 40ft so while it’s not a guaranteed 100% fix, it would prevent the issue. If I used public j1772 chargers or public NACS destination chargers, I would own one of these for ICE prevention anyway. I actually encourage this idea over a lot of level 3 for areas that want to encourage more than a hours stay. I would say if we could get car manufacturers on board to install this extended limit, a 240v/100amp charging system could encourage longer stays at places like libraries, parks, museums, restaurants, etc. while still lowering the cost of install plus more revenue over time because 24kWh is way better than 12kWh and with batteries getting less expensive to build they’re getting bigger creating more need for power. Plus it might actually encourage people to sell power from their home because I wouldn’t care if someone parked in front of my house to charge while I worked as long as I was at least breaking even. But at that time it might be cheaper to build an A/C-D/C slower charger via a 480v connection that could say to 30-40 kWh so that you aren’t overheating cables. Actually, I’ll get started on that, but they won’t look as nice and probably wouldn’t be allowed on the street.
In the USA according to the EIA we use about 10,500 kWh per year. Divided by 365 that’s about 28.8 kWh per day. I suspect in developing countries where they only use electricity for lighting and small electronics his figure might be accurate
Am I just tired, or did you pre-speed up the video by 1.25x? Edit: re: condensation. A conformal coating may be a quick and easy fix. I suppose thermally insulating the board may help as well.
With carry-along cables, it's replaced with a box that comes in the mail (a commodity). With permanent cables, you must send an electrician, and society has to bear that cost (it's a professional repair).
![POLYCAT - ข้อความรูปยิ้ม [Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBhIgPGCgbI/mqdefault.jpg)
Josh, I wish you the best in this endevor. This is an important market to serve, and IMO this is the best way to do it: Charging posts with a "bring your own cable." However, now that SAE J3400 standard is now available we have a standardized solution for North America. J3400 is based on Europe's proven solution with Type 2 (Mennekes) outlet that locks the charge cable in place when charging. It also reads a resistor in the cable to determine the max ampacity of the cable. This is important as the EVSE and the EV may both be capable of more current than the cable.
Going a non-standard route with a J1772 plug at both ends of the cable will be a dead end, requiring specialized cables. In Europe, EV owners only need one cable to work with any charge point. We don't want to get into a situation where EV owners need multiple cables to charge at different charge points.
I commented on your original video about this. I really really REALLY hope you find success with this endeavour. It is a fantastic idea that addresses a major flaw in the America EV infrastructure.
Adopt J3400 (which already has standardization for plugging a cable, bi directional charging, etc.) or all of this will be irrelevant anyway…
Agreed, there’s a whole continent that has already figured it out.
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Looking at your product idea for a European perspective, I‘m scratching my head why it took so long adapt such a concept in the US. Wish you all the best by bringing charging to more households, that otherwise solely relay on public charging.
Single family homes... that's what...
Most of the more modern homes are in the Hollywood kind of cul-de-sac single family suburbs with garages. Most EV manufacturers, and technically most industries, don't advertise to the more urban places... like cities...
Because most EVs in the US are already slowly charged from a residential power outlet. This solves a specific problem for EVs parked outside.
Great innovation. When I work for DelcoElectronics, we used to use a product to coat the circuit boards to help them last in potentially wet environments for automobiles.
Like a conformal coating?
@@chargeeverywhere It was actually a poured clear coating that was poured into the engine control module case to protect the circuit board for under the hood applications. Today they are in the passenger compartment under the dash so not as protected. I think a conformal spray coating would work well for your application.
You could use conformal or epoxy potting, and fully in case it in epoxy or silicon, assuming overheating is not an issue. @@chargeeverywhere
@@chargeeverywhere Well most circuit boards with any kind of environmental exposure use some kind of conformal or epoxy coating. I assumed that's what you'd do with Gen2.
This is the type of solution that will be key to the success of EVs, way more important the DC fast charging.
We agree
You haven't addressed the financial side of this for the providers with posts and users other than themselves. How is all that going to work from start to finish? Including but not limited to initial investments, software, networking, data hosting, security (anti thievery), safety, payments/payouts etc. If you have a solid business model in place than this looks like it may have a great future. Especially if you switch over to the NACS plugs or at least give people the option to use it instead. It is the future.
@@URackADisciprine NACs is the car end. The standard at the post just has to be compatible with all EVs.
Good call, I wasn't thinking on that one.
At 7:13 , Open EVSE sounds like a sensible source for open source design.
Some start-ups try to develop proprietary IP which costs a lot and takes years.
If you can avoid re-inventing stuff by using existing EVSE components, you can focus on the core issue of designing a cost-effective bollard. ☮️
Pretty cool.
I’m in a condo with no home charging & 100% supercharge my model y
Def need something like this!
Hurray! I feel so excited for this!
Great video and great Projekt. I even see this as a big benefit for Europe. In smaller city’s street charging/destination is a big problem. Here In my 10.000 citizen town in Germany we only have one public charger.
The biggest problem i see (at least in Germany) is that between the private property and the curb you always have the sidewalk.
Great idea. Good product.
Hopefully you can eventually offer fancier looking posts. Something like an old fancy hitching post would be great.
If I were you from a marketing perspective I would push this to apartments because no other company is focusing on that market in level 2 charging maybe offer to install the posts at your local apartment building at a lower install cost to get a proof of concept to show how your product works to build interest
I think it's a cool biz op for home owners
@@kawaiisenshi2401 to me that is fine they can do that also
Maybe not in the US but there are literally hundreds of brands doing just that with Mennekes/Type 2 plugs - which is the preferred cable for NACS as well.
So just import those units and Type2-1 and Type2-NACS cables.
@@mark123655 one problem with that plan in the us we 120v architecture for low powered level 2 charging different than in the EU and the rest of the world I don't think an European companies care enough to redesign thier posts for the us as it costs too much money which means these guys have a lock on the market in the us
@@justinjones6810 Suspect it's pretty minimal changes. From what I've seen of internals not much different between a US and European Tesla wall "charger". There isn't a huge amount to them, the car charger does the conversion.
I thought the J1772 spec did not allow for detachable cables on both ends which is why the NACS standard went with the Minnekes for detachable cables on one end and NACS or J1772 on the other. Are you planning on switching to Minnekes later on?
Yup, and SAE 1772 is now replaced with SAE J3400, which allows it.
I think this is a very compelling idea. I wonder about the regulatory response from local government. I've spent much of my career trying to get local governments to approve all sorts of projects. It's challenging. Even when they have no legal authority to do so, they frequently stand in the way of anything new, innovative or just different than what they are used to. good luck
Looking forward to the MK2 story.
1:10 I agree with your opinion here. We need safe charging.
9:28 esp32 controller, ardruino, mature support
12:49 easy solution against condensation: coat the electronics in epoxy, or silicone.
IMO: this is very good simple solution! Next add payment; this way neighbors can use it too.
I believe I have seen ltt use some sort of spray coating for some of their videos where a motherboard could get wet.
I'd be interested to know your thinking on demand - nearly all your stock shots show residential areas where people are most likely going to have garages. I would still think the major demand for this would be in more urban environments where street parking is the norm and people don't have driveways.
We have that all over Denmark 😄
isnt the detatchable spec for J1772 and NACS with a type-2 on the other end?
I mentioned you're product on the Batteries Included podcast chat today and brought it to the attention of Tom Moloughney from "State of Charge". Getting him involved and supportive will be important in your future success.
Thanks for the call-out. I hope to speak with Tom soon.
Very interesting! I kinda love this and think it would be amazing if every house had something like this near the street! However, I haven’t heard you address how the person who installs the system might be reimbursed for power used by others (potentially just random people). In a perfect world this would be powered by batteries that are storing power from solar, but even that comes with costs. I guess it could be turned off and on from a simple switch or relay in the house, but I still can envision issues if it’s near the street and open to the public. I would like to hear if there are plans for managing access to the system and how that might work. Like say I wanted it open to all comers from 8am to 5pm but wanted it reserved for a neighbor who wants to charge overnight. Will it be possible to collect a modest fee to cover electricity and maintenance?
Very excited to see progress! These would be very nice alongside a driveway, too. Much more discreet and attractive than 24 feet of hanging thick black cable. And the double plug cable would give me something useful to put in that lower trunk cubby.
Sounds like you could add a lighting system for the public use version. Like a status light of sorts. Or even a yard lighting. (this could be expanded to be suitable for various other equipment that's getting electrified, like lawn mowers and stuff...)
I'm from the UK, we probably have different electrical requirements but exporting a ground outside of the property to a remote location like that is a no-no, you would put a local ground rod in, or use a device which disconnects the ground under fault conditions. Might not be an issue in the USA, as here in lots of urban environments you use the suppliers neutral as ground.
An earth rod is not a reliable current return path to source in a fault condition. Using a neutral (grounding conductor) as an equipment grounding conductor is exceptionally hazardous as a neutral carries return current in its normal operation. This energizes the equipment case and may provide a return path to source that passes through a person in a fault condition.
Therefore in the US an egc ground earth lead is mandatory even if there is a rod since about 1999. This connection is kept separate from the neutral. In this video, no neutral is present at all as the whole 240v split phase is utilized with two 120v hots. Where you are, likely you always use a neutral with your single 240v hot lead.
If you are using the neutral as an earth ground return path and it is tied to the outlet casing and there is a ground rod there. Imagine if the return neutral wire came loose at the main panel and then you touch both the outlet casing and the main panel casing while the outlet is energized. You become the favorable return path over the ground rod.
I'm always shocked how complex electrical wiring can be. 😅
I actually like that idea a charging station that pops out of the ground
Hello, for your mk2 unit, consider the following:
1. J3400 has intrinsic to it a standardization of the euro-style plugin post that you're trying to provide in North America. Please use it instead of your 3d-printed J1772 and bespoke dual-ended J1772 cable. It should likely become a consumer product in the long term, a J3400 J1772 dumb cable and J3400 J3400 dumb cable.
2. For airing out + environmental protection, consider placing a 5-sided cube sleeve on top of the post that is toggled by pressing down and releasing, kind of like the soft close release of a cassette eject or some kitchen drawers, it would have to have enough push to fully raise the cube sleeve to open position, and it would have slits at the bottom to allow for airflow when in closed position. The post would also need relief holes to allow for airflow.
Exited for MK 2 and for more nerdy/engineering details, especially on the network side. Great work!
Love your videos, but I have a few potential problems for you to think about. One is that on tight sidewalks, bicyclists and those with baby strollers may not appreciate having a bunch of extra posts added to the already busy sidewalk, as they may present as obstacles. I know bicyclists aren't supposed to ride off of the sidewalk, but it's common for them to need to hug one side of the sidewalk or the other to accommodate passing someone, or debris, or a recycling bin in the way. I could see a backpack strap easily getting caught on an extra pole.
Secondly, while sharing with others is lovely, this will only work if you install a bunch of them in a row. If my only EVSE is out on the street, and someone else occupies it for hours, and I need to charge so I can go somewhere, I'm not going to be very happy. So these can't really be installed as onesies by individuals, or you're just inviting random strangers to come and disrupt your day randomly. If you have an interview to get to, or a wedding, that's really not ideal. People depend on their cars. That's why the best EVSE is a private one that is dedicated to you, in a garage or on the side of a freestanding house. For everyone else, they have these complex problems to solve.
In my opinion, the best public EVSE design is an EVSE that doesn't take up any additional space. Building one into a mailbox, or a light post, or a bollard that's already on the street, is really the ideal. Dedicating a new pole/pylon to EVSE doesn't make best use of limited space in cities.
your points all seem quite incorrect seeing as how this is already done just fine in Europe (where they bike _wayyy_ more than in the US) and they don't seem to have a problem with availability. Saying they "will only work if you install a bunch of them in a row" is also just making the problem worse. It's why people think there isn't enough ev charging infra in america already, because they think there's never enough. Any increase in the number is good. The problem is not about having enough. It's about not paying for other people to charge their car, hence the wifi for a payment system.
Thanks for the update.
In Europe, some companies including Ubitricity are talking about installing slow chargers in existing street lighting poles, which you show at 5:38 along with various dedicated charging devices.
That addresses a different market where the charger is provided by a utility.
Nevertheless, that product might be a useful reference for your business model of a curbside charger owned by the homeowner. ☮️
I wonder would it make more sense for the local council to own the "chargers", but on loan to the nearby apartment owners... with a separate pay-per-charge program.
OpenEVSE, nice! I made one of their DIY kits and did custom cables. Project's looking interesting. I expect NACS (J3400/Not Awful Charging Standard) will be best/necessary going forward.
ee here you will need a weatherproof well in use cover in order to comply with the NEC national electric code. You can view the electrical code for free online the NFPA has a free version they hide it but they are required to provide it. See NEC 406.10 (B) (2) A receptacle installed in a wet location where the product influenced to be plugged into is not attended well in use shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof with the attachment plug cap inserted or removed
Yes, we are aware. Later prototypes have design updates to address.
Is a J1772 connector classed as a receptacle? It's got a contactor and control board upstream of it, and the contacts are inert except for the ELV control pilot until negotiation is complete.
If you want to get the word out about the MK2 there are some great TH-cam channel to collab with for example the now you know channel with Zack and Jessie.
Great video showing your thinking process. One issue that may be difficult to deal with is that many municipalities will not allow the power connection to cross onto their right-o-way. It would be interesting to see a video on how you dealt with the permits both from the municipal authorities and your electric utility company.
If Europe can do it then we can make it happen IF we want to make it happen. I’m sure EV haters will come out with plenty of excuses like right o way to make it not happen
I think you mean easements. Rights-of-way generally end at the curb or roads edge in the vast majority of situations. Also depends on whether a street is public or private. And before a video on permitting, he needs to provide a viable business model with certain financial safeties and securities accounted for. All is for nothing without that at this stage.
It failed because all the electronics were in the post. Why can’t the electronics be placed back in the house at the beginning of the wire run?
I'm guessing MK2 will be "potted"
A simple fix to your water/electronics is to not keep them in the post. Just keep them at ke near the breakerbox or someplace otherwise protectes from the elements. I would not keep the😊 electronics in the post.
Also you get the added benefit of the. The power lines running to the post are not being powered at all. It should be way safer. You also will still which is . missing local disconnect.
Make the cables harder to steal by the tweakers
Theoretically they won't be able to steal the cable while it's in use, since the J1772 plug can be locked by the vehicle. That won't stop them from just taking some bolt cutters to both ends of course, but hopefully the 240v shock will at least stop them from trying it twice. ⚡
@@joeyhazlett not hard to insulate bolt cutters against 240V.
Why not a NEMA 14-50 plug on the post?
Because anyone could just roll up with their RV, park on the street in front of your house, and get free electricity. The EVSE circuitry lets you manage who has access to the electricity, whether that's by paying for it, or being part of a collective where you share the system.
@@sebinlee221 I think the entire purpose of this project is to normalize this type of charging, which is already common in Europe. If everyone is responsible for their own cable, there is lower liability for the municipalities and they may be more inclined to allow things like this to use public right of way. And if these are commonplace, then it won't matter if someone parked in "your" spot, just park at the next available one and plug in.
@@sebinlee221 an RV relies on those standard NEMA connections. They aren't likely to have a J1772 connection like an EV, but if they did, they're free to pay to charge or use the power however they like. You just need some way to limit access to those who are authorized, and a NEMA plug does not provide that without extra hardware. You might as well put in something that natively supports access control, which an EVSE can support easily.
@@joeyhazlett he mentioned a control board, you should be able to turn the power on and off from the app. The plug type shouldn't matter. Anyone with an evse cable could roll up, plug in and get free power too.
The "bring your own cable" model is a good one. However as many people have a portable evse have you looked at a 14-50 to cool ev adapter?
The posts are probably the easier sell. The cable will probably be more difficult.
i need to learn to listen to the whole video before commenting. The evse circuitry is in the post and you litterally just need a cable. My bad
I need this so much. Except I can't run power from my house to where I park, I have to park around the corner since I live on a main road.
I got a curiosity question, I do love the idea. How would you prevent people just parking beside it on the street and not plugging in, since it’s the street itself probably legal for anyone to park beside it. They could theoretically park for weeks on end making it impossible for you to charge urself or allow others to utilize it.
Very excited for this idea, I sent you an email a bit ago. Would love to talk to you about it more
Problem with this is it basically your personal charger on the street. Someone has to use it for 10 hours. A cheap fast charger would be best they should be cheaper too. Nxu uses a battery to charge at 400v, avoiding expensive equipment
Why you don't use Type 2 socket?
I'ts more convenient when you have locker inside socket. In EU I always use Type 2- Typr 2 cable for my Hyundai EV but for Fiat 500E I use Type 2 - Type 1 ( J1771).
We are moving to that for North America. This is not based on that.
Do we have a plan to circumvent cable theft while charging?
SAE J3400 cables have provision to lock the cable to the post when charging, and most EVs will also lock the cable to the car. This is the same method as used in Europe.
Does it have ethernet support? I would think not many people have wifi that reaches the street.
What cable do you use to go from the post to the car? Most chargers have the cable go directly from the charger, so did you have to custom make a J1772 cable on both ends? Any plans for NACS?
I thought there was a North American standard that prohibits removable cables on EVSE’s.
Tom Moloughney has many years of experience of EV charging and ran his own business.
Reach out to Tom, asking him to review your business plan.
youtube.com/@stateofchargewithtommoloughney?si=oDVOMPCHcMZk0s_T
I’m hoping to be a customer and investor one day
The telescoping, retractable pole is my favorite idea. May not be as practical, or cost effective, and have significantly more points of failure, but dang it’s cool. Even a discreet pole will probably the draw ire of the nEVers, but I think that even the naysayers would be somewhat mesmerized by a charger that deploys from the ground.
I agree. Unfortunately, so many cool things are crippled by cost and impracticality
All fun and games until it is buried under 2cm of ice.
have you considered conformal coating on the boards as well as silicone?
Why not just a 240v nema outlet? Most EVs have a 240v charger in their trunk. Then all you’d need is some kind of payment device controller.
silly dangerous
The OpenEVSE is the payment device controller, and J1772 is ubiquitous, whereas NEMA outlets vary (14-30, 14-50, 6-50, etc.) so you'd need to carry a set of adapters with you anyway.
Do you support plug and charge for Teslas?
How does your offering compare to itselectric
We have a somewhat similar approach, with a key difference in business philosophy. itselectric owns its chargers and needs to make that make economic sense for them. In other words, a single user may not provide sufficient incentive for them to install. Plus, there will be a markup on energy used going back to itselectric. We will sell the chargers to homeowners, businesses, etc. This gives folks the power to put them where they need them. We think we serve somewhat different market segments.
Love this as well. But since it’s public parking how do you prevent non EV’s from blocking your charger?
Totally understand your concern, I had the same thought myself. What I found though is the extension cables you can get go up to like 40ft so while it’s not a guaranteed 100% fix, it would prevent the issue. If I used public j1772 chargers or public NACS destination chargers, I would own one of these for ICE prevention anyway. I actually encourage this idea over a lot of level 3 for areas that want to encourage more than a hours stay. I would say if we could get car manufacturers on board to install this extended limit, a 240v/100amp charging system could encourage longer stays at places like libraries, parks, museums, restaurants, etc. while still lowering the cost of install plus more revenue over time because 24kWh is way better than 12kWh and with batteries getting less expensive to build they’re getting bigger creating more need for power. Plus it might actually encourage people to sell power from their home because I wouldn’t care if someone parked in front of my house to charge while I worked as long as I was at least breaking even. But at that time it might be cheaper to build an A/C-D/C slower charger via a 480v connection that could say to 30-40 kWh so that you aren’t overheating cables. Actually, I’ll get started on that, but they won’t look as nice and probably wouldn’t be allowed on the street.
Epoxy resin coating
Am I missing something here? 750 homes @ 1.2kw/daily? National avg of daily kw is closer to 30kw/daily.
I think you got this number wildly wrong
In the USA according to the EIA we use about 10,500 kWh per year. Divided by 365 that’s about 28.8 kWh per day. I suspect in developing countries where they only use electricity for lighting and small electronics his figure might be accurate
His terminology is confusing but he might be referring to current draw rather than consumption.
Yes, it is power. The 28.8 kWh divided by 24 hours gives you 1.2kW - daily averaged power.
Ahh. Sorry. At quick glance I was confused and wasn't sure how you were referring to that number. Thanks.
30 kWh/day. not "30 kW/day" which is equivalent to 40 hp/day, which is nonsense.
Conformal coating is your friend.
Keep going!!!
Okay so how do the home owner get paid from people using there electric post?.
Am I just tired, or did you pre-speed up the video by 1.25x?
Edit: re: condensation. A conformal coating may be a quick and easy fix.
I suppose thermally insulating the board may help as well.
I would put in a charging station even though I would move
aldimatlee
Cables are being damaged and stolen i dont want to have to replace it
With carry-along cables, it's replaced with a box that comes in the mail (a commodity). With permanent cables, you must send an electrician, and society has to bear that cost (it's a professional repair).
These videos are becoming repetitive