As much as I like Tesla and the Cybertruck- I have to point out that the 2 ribbon cables which provide steering input commands to the rack and pinion motors does not qualify as redundant, much less "double redundant" Both ribbon cables share a single connector which means the connector becomes a single point of failure that impacts both systems. This concerns me as it would not qualify in an industrial application as "redundant" much less when applied to a "people mover" application.
Thought the exact same thing. There also seemed to be an implication the steering motors were powered by that ribbon cable, which is clearly not the case. Also, no doubt the front module just communicates with the steering motors/sensors using can bus. Also find it intriguing that a massive connector almost the size of a human hand is apparently a marvel compared to a simple, compact and cheap 4 pin connector which would otherwise be used (12v, gnd, can high, can low).
Sandi pretends to be all knowing, expert on all subjects, that's the worst kind, pretend to know, blow smoke, hope the check clears. Another fake, phony fraud...And he doesn't understand what vertically integrated means either. He claims Tesla is, tesla is far from it. What a tool.
Wait, so the redundancy on the cabling is done with cables that are TOUCHING each other? So if some physical damage occurred to one wire will very likely affect the other wire set that is TOUCHING it? Crazy.
@@markplott4820Penetrate? Wires don't need to be penetrated with external stuff to get cut... Besides, most of Cybetruck is built from anything but stainless steel.
@@markplott4820 only the outside...far away from these wires that can easily wear on other things...ive seen wires that are rubber coated in rubber clamps still wear through fully and short
You REALLY need to get your eyes checked. LOOK AT the video again. IT IS NOT 340 degrees. It is more like under 300 degrees, maybe 280 degrees is more like it. 360 is the full circle.
@@1flash3571 he is correct - there are pictures of the CT screen showing +/-160-170deg steering wheel angle for lock 32deg at the front wheels. So 320-340deg lock to lock depending on the ratio provided (by nature of the system it can be changed to even less SWA required)
@@felixweinreich3999 Soooo, when SM did the ACTUAL TURN, that is FAKED???????? WTH you talking about????? I saw what I saw, and he turned it from left to right to the MAX and it wasn't 320 degrees.
@@1flash3571 SbW is variable gear ratio! You could also do plus minus 10deg lock to lock if you want to... but actually cybertruck on the road has standstill lock to lock around 320-340deg!!! Will be different when you change the vehicle speed (even more indirect ratio) Cybertruck shows the data on the screen with steering gear rack travel, steering wheel angle and road wheel angles...
Planes have fly by wire systems, they also have legally mandated service schedules, detailed log books, controlled operating conditions and highly trained pilots who are legally obliged to report any deviations from the flight envelope. Redundancy is only useful if the failure of the primary systems are apparent to the operator, if one cable fails the system degrades. Putting two cables in parallel doesn’t suffice and can make things worse, if one cable gets mangled and shorts it may disrupt the second.
Confused by REDUNDANCY terminology. Also had same issue with the Boeing computers description I have seen elsewhere. For instance you showed what seemed to be a twin cabled lead and called it double redundant. Is this a difference between American English/Math and English English/Maths? In English English a double cable would simply be called a (single) redundancy. A double redundancy (two redundancies) would be three cables. Likewise "triple redundant" system would be four systems. Or did I not see/hear all the redundants being described?
@@brianb-p6586 As in my poor understanding or various engineers on TH-cam? My UK 1980's training (and since) was very definite that a single redundancy consists of two systems, and so on.
Not quite sure where this claim of triple redundancy is coming from. There's either some complete ignorance of the meaning of "redundancy" at Munro's shop, ot there's some clever marketing (lies) coming through back channels from Tesla to Munro.
@@Thegrimmechanic yeah, after some initial scepticism and criticism, Sandy seems to have become a big Tesla/Musk fan. Suspect there's at least some Tesla "boosting" going in here....
I have been begging for a wiring episode. I would assume elon wouldn't want it because everyone is kinda trying to catch up to elon, but yeah, we all got questions. they could separate the cables, so it runs on either side of the battery, so one gets damaged, it uses the other....
And what happens if you lose power? Either through battery failure, accidental/intentional power off or connection failure. Is there any sort of mechanical steering wheel lock on Teslas as there are when legacy ignition keys are removed?
Very nice that the logo of ZF (Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen) from Germany is on the case. This confirms, once again, how self-confident ZF is, that they are able to enforce their logo there at Tesla. This also shows that Tesla simply uses the innovations of Tier 1 suppliers for many components.
And proving Sandi is all confused when he keeps using the term "vertically integrated"....tesla is far from it. they are an assembler like all others, that get parts from thousands of OEM suppliers. sandi is so confused, so many times. He thinks if he pretends to know stuff, and keeps the same lies, like a politician, it becomes the truth. Wake up, 70's porn mustache
Can someone explain what the purpose of the redundant ethernet cables is when they share the same connector? I would think you'd want redundant connections as well. What am I missing?
@@markplott4820 @sphigel1 it's because they have two sets of pins in the same connector. Connector probably ridiculously robust. Really impressive engineering, both design and DFM.
I can - it is BULLSHIT. That connector connects front zonal module and rear zonal controller to RWS INSIDE the vehicle. The flat ribbon cable and this connector are NOT designed for environmental conditions in the "engine bay". You can see the male connectors on the SbW rack actuators (split into BIG power and communication seperate). Each one - no way that blue one is connected to the SbW system directly! I also highly doubt it is 100% ethernet. And redundancy terminology is also mixed up in the whole video. The power is coming from a different wiring to the power packs (each probably >1kW, you don't run >20A @ 48V on that tiny ribbon cable!). And then they get the steering commands from another gateway/ethernet switch connecting feedback actuator (driver steering wheel) and the SbW gear.
It's MUSH engineering, and Sandi is clueless. He's always knowing more, just ask him. and he has been impressed by a matchstick, if it had "Tesla" on the box
@@cengeb - SANDY knows MORE about TESLA , than he is Disclosing. MUNRO makes Business of SELLING Teardown reports & vehicle COSTING. I bought a $5 (FULL) Report from MUNRO on the BMW i3, I was thinking of making a Affordable city car , at the time. If I were Stranded w/ just a Matchstick in a Foreign Country , I would make it back , with $1 Million in my pockets. DONT underestimate what Match can do.
Airplanes have redundancy on all crucial systems, but Cybertruck doesn't have redundancy on power for example. So if power fails, you will lose steering. There's a reason why other brands still have mechanical backup on drive by wire systems. Also the amount of electronic overhead on this system leads me to believe it's not as cheap or as light as its mechanical counterpart. As far as boats, we've seen what happens when they lose power, they collide into bridges because they lose steering, for example.
There is a little redundancy in the front and rear steering wheels. If the front went out you could very slowly navigate the car. Probably enough to get it off to the side of the road. That is assuming it failed in the center 😅
As you can see in the video it has two motors on the steering rack, it would make sense that each motor would have it's independent steering sensors and separate power supplies for redundancy. Also it looks like Lexus steer by wire didn't have mechanical failsafe, anyways these are road cars not airplanes, the safety requirements have nothing in common. Maybe not an advantage in weight but clearly makes driving more interesting and easy.
Monroe team member is chomping at the bit to say more. Sandy is looking as fantastic as ever, but these young bucks are eager. Bless you both. This isn't an easy transition....car included.
@@MunroLive this isnt a true 48 volt architecture another tear down company on autoline daily proved it. plus the honda prelude back in the 80s had rear wheel steering lol nothing new and steer by wire isnt required or nessasary for a vehicle. this truck would be alot better if it was a hybrid so it could actually tow 500 miles unlike false advertisement from 2019. this truck is a gimmick period obsolete and outdated.
@@tomz1364 I'm not an expert. But... On something as critical as steer by wire, I would like to see end to end redundancy, including power. That means a backup battery separate from the 48 volt battery and separate from the car's main battery. In a different location in the vehicle. These systems should be completely failsafe. At least before I would ever consider buying one. Also... I would hope that if there is a failure, the computer doesn't allow someone to continue driving the car. 50 to 100 miles to get home and it should shut down until the problem is corrected. Again, not an expert, just my opinion on the subject.
100% - no planetary drive required for the ratio between motor and rack. That is a worm drive connecting motor output shaft (worm) and pinion (connected to worm wheel).
Any OEM that isn't paying Munro for their teardown analysis will be the first to go bust. BZ to SM and his team for educating the masses. Well done folks from all of us in Canada. I cant wait to take delivery of mine. Cheers
I think Sandy remarked on this a few years ago. Only the Koreans and Japanese were paying him for the analysis (that or the USA OEMs were paying but not making any of the recommended changes). He said that Tesla was the only OEM that implemented all of the recommended changes (or maybe most? ...I think he was talking about the Model 3 ...my brain is a little slow this morning lol). It is very hard to make changes for domestic (USA) OEMs especially if the changes eliminate a union job. (I lived in NE Ohio and had relatives working for Delphi & Lordstown in management and on the line ...crazy stories!)
In 1988 a friend bought a Honda Prelude with 4 wheel steering. Not steer-by-wire, but that thing was fun to drive. Thanks for the descriptions and views of the beast's steering.
Do you remember if that year prelude has the long steering driveshaft to a separate rack in the rear? I know they started using electronic rear steering on the preludes but can't remember which year
Impressive tech - thanks for the tour guys. Couple thoughts come to mind on truly redundant systems - I would want those ribbons routed differently through the vehicle structure vs side by side, and I certainly wouldn’t want them terminating in a common connector. It would be interesting to know if that conversation happened during the design phase - especially on the common terminal and if someone pulled up data to say the chance of failure at that point was so small it wasn’t remotely worth designing two different interface points.
My thoughts too - using a common connector means the redundancy isn't there. Additionally, in both tear-downs I've seen, there seems to be only a single sensor at the end of the steering shaft measuring the driver input, so if that's correct that's a huge gap in the system's overall redundancy,
It's a single pair that allows bidirection ethernet data transfer. The cables are flat to allow better routing. The other motor will have an independent pair. The tie breaker will have another independent pair. Command signal is triple redundant, drive motors are dual with a fail safe design. ^guessing
@@Krixz_20 They only mention the one pair of ethernet cables. Seems like there's some redundancy, but it only extends as far as the steering motors and sensors on the rack, not on the cabling / connectors or steering input sensor reading driver inputs. I'd love to have clarity on this, but thus far it seems and looks only partly redundant.
@gruppefbc I think Sandy got caught out talking electrical stuff. Where is the steering wheel, where are the front drive units (close), why is that ethernet cable several meters long with a single connector? I think it's for the back wheels.
@@Krixz_20 That's certainly a very plausible theory of the cabling being for the rear motor. Still leaves questions unanswered though, especially the key one of if there is any redundancy on the steering wheel input sensor. If there's only one sensor, that's a huge failing of a key safety aspect of the system.
Steer-by-wire is used on just about everything imaginable, except cars... and trucks, and motorcycles, and light aircraft, and older aircraft, and small boats...
It’s more ZF steer by wire, than Tesla. They build these systems for years. Don’t understand the hype. The problem is not steer by wire, which is old technology, but need for a backup steering system outside the US.
re: "Don’t understand the hype." A: well Ego and regardless of where the Stock is at...? the "scam" of the Jordan Belfort Pump And Dump must continue unabated.
Yeah, real time industrial control has been around for years (e.g. EtherCAT was standardised about 20yrs ago, and allows real time control over ethernet in various topologies (including ring). Doubt that Tesla have invented anything new here - why wouldn't they use existing chipsets for this? Suspect their "Etherloop" is just one of these existing protocols and about the only thing Tesla has added of it's own is marketing hype....
Sandy was right; the next software update will increase the steering angle of the rear wheels. Yes, ZF is developing the Steer by Wire system for the CT together with Tesla. Tesla works with many hidden champions in Germany, but of course, you know which Tier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers Tesla has.
crap!!!! didnt tesla made the steering angle up to 10 degrees+ from factory!? why didnt tesla made the locking diff also available?! those are just lame excuses! the very old chevy quadrasteer had a significantly much bigger rear steer angle from factory.
ZF is the worlds largest automotive supplier and makes parts for literaly all manufacturers, rear wheel steering is also been in development with all manufacturers too! mercedes and other manufacturers have much bigger trucks that offers up to 3 or 4 steering axles.
In control engineering, the arrangement is called 2oo3 ( 2 out of 3majority voting ) system....not triple redunandant. Triplr Redundant to a SINGLE control unit is adequate to guarantee an acceptable level of safety such that any fault will automaticallly force the car to go into a safe state to protect the car and its occupants from an accident.
My guess is that the third sensor is not for safety or redundancy. Odds are that ZF/Tesla went with two servomotors on the front steering rack in order to provide enough steering power to steer this giant tire/wheel combo in certain off road environments. Anyone that's ever worked on a dedicated offroad racing truck would understand this. I believe the third sensor is for power management between the two servomotors since they have to run synchronously all the time. This is not a design for redundancy.
@@marcink5820 It is not nonsense, it's commonplace to design this way for many reasons. One reason is for space constraints. there may be a 'packaging' issue that requires the use of two smaller motors rather than one big one. Look at how aircraft are designed. The other reason is inline with the patent (but I'm guessing you never read it) to make the obsurd claim of redundundancy.
Is it really wise physically running the 2 redundant data cables attached together? A physical event that damaged/severed one cable would likely damage/sever the other since they are attached. The cables should be separated and run down different sides of the front chassis for safety. Just seems crazy to me for a system that’s supposed to be redundant for safety.
If you've had an impact so severe that those cables are seriously damaged, that would have completely destroyed the steering shaft in any other vehicle.
@@otm646 honestly we don’t have an idea exactly where/how the cables are run through the chassis so no idea how susceptible the cables are to pinch/crush/rubbing damage.
Can you guys measure any response delay? Probably just the flex of the rubber, but the sound of the sand under the tyres definitely is delayed a little.
The FSD this month for free is a solid level 3. I have owned Tesla’s since 2017 with FSD. This April is amazing. I just moved to a new city. The FSD is a game changer either voice or manual navigation and you end up at your destination. Minimal take over. Navigates well in scary parking lots very impressive. Maybe we will have flying cars with Tesla in the lead!
re: "Tesla in the lead!" sorry no, i just flew back Sunday into PHL in a REAL PLANE (Airbus A321 Neo) after spending 8 days out in Phoenix "making house calls" on everything from Legacy EV, to Lucid's AMP-1 factory, to Nikola's HQ and the Tre Semi, to Gruber Motor's service of Tesla Roadsters, to the Arizona SuperShow at State Farm Stadium, etc, and in between all these visits additionally spending time riding around (falling asleep even) in the BACK SEAT of Waymo's numerous robot Jaguars (a visitor to the city literally can't throw a rock around the campus of ASU/Tempe without hitting one)... thus rest assured NOBODY in the PHX (or the SFO for that matter) believes for ONE SECOND that Tesla is going to lead anything related to Autonomous Driving, never mind anything related to Aviation at this late date in History. that's right, for i declare the FSD CODE HAS BEEN CRACKED (and just as i thought not by Tesla) plus it is already operating at 98% efficiency with Waymo's "Sentinels" only having been "deployed" in this part of AZ for 2 years... now for those struggling terribly with Denial and Cognitive Dissonance, be advised i have MULTIPLE 15 minute long videos on my phone that i'd be happy to show you.
We've been running FSD since August 2023 and love it. Version 12.3.4 is a game changer. It's not level 3 because it still needs me paying attention at all times since it does make an occasional mistake, but 99% of the time it could be level 3. For example, in Utah it kept wanting to cross the double lines going into and out of HOV lanes. I totally agree on how great the navigation is. We left Santa Monica and it correctly navigated us over 5 or 6 different freeways just getting to Interstate 15.
@@phillyphil1513 You do realize that Waymo has scanned the areas they are driving around in, riiiiiiight? Imagine Waymo trying to scan ALL the roads in the U.S. and any place it is able to go....That would be a NIGHTMARE, AND need a large data centers for those data for the roads it is driving on, AND it needs to rescan those areas on a consistent basis due to construction, or other possible changes it may have after it was scanned. YOU HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE.
That etherloop wire+connector looks interesting. First of all, the cable is not twisted pair like we're used to seeing with Ethernet.That seems important, since twisted pair and differential signalling is the way ethernet builds resistance to interference. I would love to know how this system was made resistant to interference, or if Tesla perhaps found that twisted pairs are not needed and differential signalling works just fine over this flatcable design. It would be helpful to know how this cable is routed in the actual car. Second of all, I would be interested to know how many contact points are present on the connectors.
928 is passive system where wheels move to direction providing understeer. There is one extra rubber joint in lower control arm. When brake is applied wheel turns inwards instead of outwards as in usual suspension arm. There is no rack or any other extra control mechanism in it. Prelude, 850 etc. were more sophisticated systems back then.
interesting - my link to the Schaeffler press release has been deleted... just google "Schaffler Rear Wheel Steering Cybertruck" - should be the "world premiere" link
@@felixweinreich3999 they're generally similar, and neither matches what we're seeing in the Cybertruck in every detail, but it does look like the Schaeffler RWS. They're both belt-drive. It's hard to imagine getting steering components from two different suppliers, but it can be done.
@@brianb-p6586 I can see the Schaeffler position sensor design in another video ;-) Trust me it is Schaeffler and not ZF RWS - I've seen both in real life, CAD and also driven them
So the Tie Breaker sensor would be polled and if it was significantly out of synch you would get an error code to have the car serviced soon, but if one of the main actuator position sensors failed, then I wonder if it would disable that actuator and then rely on the 2 remaining position sensors in a limp mode to get the car to a service. Or perhaps the 2 good sensors could operate both actuators and operate more normally with the error code. Triple redundancy is pretty cool.
I think it is actually just continuous. By that I mean every input is polled in real time--probably more than 100 times per second--and whichever two sensors are closer to agreement for that particular polling event are assumed to be correct. If there is a repeating discrepancy by the same sensor where it is the odd man out over some preset time span, then the system will flag it as defective and signal a fault that needs attention.
I suspect that each sensor module actually has two sensors so that if a sensor fails it can be detected and ignored. This is how SpaceX designed their triple redundant system.
Unless this system is a poor design the sensors and actuators as independent. They're packaged together for convenience. What happens when a sensor fails is up to the software. I can tell you what I think makes sense. Read all 3 sensors all the time. If any sensor disagrees or fails to respond we still have enough information to drive the truck but should a 2nd fail we don't. That could be very bad news so the truck needs service. *An error code alone would be a bad idea.* What the software allows the driver to do is up to Tesla. If it were an airplane we could continue to fly with 2 and even 1 sensor. With the car one has to allow the car to safely stop. We don't want people driving around with less than 3 good sensors but we don't want to endanger them by forcing their hand at an 'inconvenient' moment. There are both engineering and legal issues here.
That sensor is actually a plastic box containing two completely independent sensors with two independent circuits. Which means that the two sensors are actually quadruple redundant. This way they can look at each pair independently and when one is in agreement and another one is also in agreement but slightly different they can measure that there is a slight difference but if it fails in a way where one of the four sensors is significantly off It can ignore it and make an assumption about which one is bad. There's a lot more information you can get.
Unfortunately, in the software world we see different design considerations that people mistake for triple redundancy. Rather these big clusters can operate on three systems, but is not triply redundant. Instead it supports up to hundreds of systems, but locks when there are just two. That's because the chosen failure mode is different because people don't die if the server goes offline.
6:12 I would like to know more about the big gooseneck on the wheel assemblies, where the upper control arm is attached. It’s only on the front wheels. The rear wheels don’t have them. I’m curious because I want to know how to change the structure to: Raise the height of the lower control arm so there is more clearance. Redesign the parts so you don’t need control arms, so you can go to 90 degree turn.
I guess it would be called 90 degree steer. 80 or 75 degree steer would make a big difference too. The trick is more ability with fewer or simpler parts. Anyone can design a truck wheel that steers 360 degrees. But is it simple, is it durable?
million dollar question: How is the 48v power supply redundancy / backup handled and where? A total loss of 48v power is going to be a problem! Does the rack still have mechanical self centering, ie is the motor drive ratio and motor friction/cogging low enough for the castor angle to push the wheels back to centre in the case of a complete loss of 48v power, or can the vehicle use brake bias to steer in extremis?
you aren't the first person to think of that. Maybe go watch more tesla vids. Tesla has two electrical systems in each car. The main battery winds down, and it slows you down. Eventually, when the battery is 1% it doesn't let you go faster than 1 mph. Then it shuts off. You still have lights and steering powered by the backup battery system.
@@davidanalyst671 no. i'm not talking about a HV traction battery discharge or failure, i'm talking about redunancy on the 48V battery and asscosicated electrical distrubution system. I'm sure the SBW meets ISO 26262, i just would like to understand how that is achieved with respect to the 48v power architecture. I'd immagine it is furnished through very careful fusing and discretisation of dual feed paths,using both the 48v storage battery and the HV-LV DCDC to provide seperate and non-cascadable redundancy!
Well presented just one question what type of 48 volt back up systems are used for the steer by wire system in a power supply failure (no power no steering ) I know that Toyota Lexus has a lithium emergency back up battery
Sounds like the 2 mic audio tracks weren’t synced in the edit hence the echo/reverb when they both talk and both tracks need to be unmuted for those sections
Interesting to see confirmation if it really only is Ethernet and not CAN for SbW (I'm not aware of an released automotive Ethernet spec with TSN allowing for priorization and deterministic availability required for such a system). And again - don't guess on things you haven't opened. It is very likely NOT a planetary gear but a simple worm gear from motor shaft to pinion shaft for the required ratio to rack travel (dual pinion steering gear)
Does anyone know what car wash mode does? I've heard of cybertrucks bring bricked by going through a car wash without this mode on? And the warranty being voided if you go through car wash without it being on or washing the truck in the sun.
At 8:29, that's not a planetary gear; it's a worm gear set. The steering motor uses a worm gear to drive a helical gear. The steering shaft features a linear gear that moves back and forth. The worm gear set is used because it generates the highest torque and has a self-locking mechanism. In fact, the two steering motors may be working together in sync to produce more torque when the Cybertruck experiences a very sharp turn at high speed and acceleration.
My biggest question: Is the toe in angle controlled by strictly mechanical connections? Or is there a dynamic adjustment to the toe-in depending on what the rear steering is doing?
Did I see BMW style axles and hubs? Face drive instead of splines. Are they hot-forged like BMW or do they look machined? I also saw Ford style outer tie rods. What benefit is there in such a wide angle non self-locking taper?
This explanation was way convoluted I feel. My try: 1. The complete turning radius of the steering wheel is 200 to about 240 degrees. 2. at slower speeds small motions of the steering wheel result in big motions of the wheels. 3. at high speeds bigger motions of the steering wheel lead to smaller motions of the wheels. =)
Sandy’s videos are for semi informed people in the automotive industry. It’s going to sound complex and dragged out. For a lot of us we like to see and hear all the details, not just the basic information that’s been said by everyone.
❤ what a wonderfull truck. Picture shows pneumatic suspension. Won’t it be possible to make it electromagnetic so damping motion of the wheels generats electric power?
On ehuge benefit of by-wire steering is the ability for the system to decide what steering roadwheel angle to apply no matter what the driver input to the handwheel is. The biggest problem when calibrating a dynamic stability control system is drivers who "wang" the handwheel all over the shop, upsetting the system. With by-wire steering, you can perfectly control vehicle yaw with a roadwheel steering input as well as, or in preference too, a brake yaw application. Add in machine vision and lidar, and you can finally break the age old problem of drivers simply getting target fixated on the thing they are about to hit, and as a result hitting it. In advanced driving we teach "look where you want go, not where you don't want to go" but for most drivers, and emergency is so rare, unfolded quickly and un-expectidly, and as a result, a lot of fundamentally avoidable (through handwheel inputs in conjunction with braking) are not avoided at all....
Wenn Du sowas willst oder brauchst, ok - aber ich schalte im Winter je nach Straßenglätte und Schneelage sogar das ESP AUS - aus dem einfachen Grund, weil es hoffnungslos überfordert UND eben viel zu langsam und träge ist. Bei sportlicherer Fahrweise, ist das System sehr schnell überfordert. Probiere es mal aus, ein außer Kontrolle geratenes Auto MIT und dann OHNE ESP wieder einzufangen - dann weißt Du was ich meine. Bei mir, war es also genau anders herum, dass das "überforderte ESP" ständig und verspätet MEINE Lenkkorrekturen dann praktisch zunichte gemacht hat. Man spürt dann regelrecht, wie das ESP mit 0,5 Sekunden immer zu spät eingreift.
All of this reminds me so much of Mercedes in the 2000’s. Lots of new tech with lots of electrical / technical issues that plagued the cars and resulted in sales/ leases of new vehicles to rid owners of the problems. It’s neat but not something a lot of customers would need or want. I don’t see how the benefits outweigh the risks of steer by wire on a vehicle that’s already had plenty of electrical gremlins in a short period of time. I have a F150 lightning and love that it’s just like every ICE F150 I’ve had before aside from an electric skateboard chassis. Let’s work on the battery charging and energy storage tech before we go reinventing the steering wheel (mechanical linkage)
Here's a question: would the Steer-by-wire system be able to perform what amounts to "dynamic wheel alignment"? I would think that the CyberTruck could perform micro-adjustments to the wheel alignment as the vehicle is moving to minimize rolling resistance. Maybe this has been mentioned at some point but I have not seen or heard anything about it.
Not sure what you mean. The only parameter a steer by wire system could change is toe in. And for that it would need a split rack which doubles the number of motors and sensors a much more complex design. Or am I in left field.
No. You can clearly see the steering rack geometry is pretty standard with the usual way of adjusting alignment manually with a spanner. Both motors work together to drive the same rack. There are 2 for redundancy/safety in case one fails.
@@danharold3087 - it was just a thought, apparently not a terribly good one, but in my defense I had not had my morning coffee so I blame caffeine deprivation. Thanks for your comment!
@@fredbloggs5902 - Understood. Thanks for that clarification. As I mentioned to the other commentor, I believe caffeine deprivation led to my wayward thought. Cheers!
Q: Here's a question: would the Steer-by-wire system be able to perform what amounts to "dynamic wheel alignment"? A: no, well not at least with this system in the way it's currently configured, but that IS an interesting thought you have as it would simply have to be configured in the way Porsche ALREADY does it with the Rear Wheel Steering option available on the 911... that is to say, the current generation 992 (by virtue of being a rear engine mated to a transaxle) is forced to implement the use of Rear Steer by way of 2 separate actuators (1 placed at each wheel) that are not connected as would normally be with a standard EPS rack, therein technically they are able to move INDEPENDENTLY of one another for optimal geometry (think: Ackerman Steering)... to that end your idea of Dynamic Wheel Alignment DOES in fact exist at least in prototype form, yeah the mighty VW Group just debuted it 3 months ago iirc on a Lamborghini Huracan and it's called called AWC (Active Wheel Carrier). that's right, sorry Tesla but you lose again, unfortunately your CEO's Ego is simply not big enough to overcome the DEFICIT Tesla has to an OEM like VW who actively participate in Motorsports and Racing. again i repeat: "Anytime you win Leman 19X since 1970 (mind you someone hadn't even born yet) you learn things that the laymen and pretenders DO NOT..." (my voice) th-cam.com/video/4KbSE2dS8-4/w-d-xo.html
EMP will fry everything. Most cars already use electric power assisted steering so that will die and the steering effort will increase 3 times or more. Many people do not have enough strength to turn the wheel in that situation so the mechanical linkage is not a huge help. Just hope you are going straight regardless of mechanical or elctronic linkage.
Grats @TeslRebuilders, happy that you’re getting something you’re so excited about. People hating on Tesla cause it’s en vogue while ignoring the content of the videos they post on really need to re-evaluate their priorities in life. Constructive criticism is one thing but being an ass just for the sake of it or trying to make people feel bad for what they choose to do with their money is such a waste of energy, go focus it on something constructive.
Yes, but what do you say about the rotary mechanism of the new electric Hammer? Among other things, there is a crab movement. How is the transmission of torque from the steering wheel to the wheels implemented there?
The Ethernet connector reminds me of a larger SATA connector that exists for storage (hard drives) devices in PCs for years. Also has a visible split power / data section.
Armin seems to have that young immigrant energy that Nikola Tesla himself had, and he seems to understand Tesla’s game plan in innovation well. Sandy, more with Armin, please.
I saw a Cybertruck at their King of Prussia mall showroom. Loved it. Finally had one pass me on the road in my Model 3. Was that you Mr. Kelce? Damn it is huge. I felt like I was driving underground .
Heads Will Roll Amidst a chaotic month for Tesla - even by its continuously plunging standards - Facebook cofounder and multi-billionaire Dustin Moskovitz has made some pretty dire predictions for the automaker, accusing it of committing "consumer fraud on a massive scale." "This is Enron now, folks," Moskovitz wrote on Threads, referring to the corporation that went bankrupt in 2001 after it was exposed for one of the biggest accounting frauds in history. "It may keep going, but people are going to jail at the end." His concerns stem from a graph Tesla shared to mark a key milestone: one billion miles driven using Full Self-Driving, the company's highly fraught advanced driver assist system. He then compares it with a new graph released during Tesla's latest earnings call - an event that came with its own eyebrow raising moments. The point of the side-by-side is this: according to Moskovitz, the automaker is wrongly recognizing its deferred revenue - revenue for a product that hasn't been delivered, like an annual subscription fee - as earned revenue through the wider release of its Autopark feature last month. This is a sketchy move, Moskovitz claims, because an earlier version of Autopark was already released with FSD years ago, resulting in inflated numbers. "The data is presented in fraudulent ways, and it doesn't say what they claim it says even when they make it up," he wrote.
I like the video/audio of the guys doing their work. The “reaction video” thing of you all taking apart the different major, minor and sub assemblies would be neat along with the usual videos where you discuss what you learn after studying the goodies. Just a different kind of content maybe? Anyway, love the way you all are having a blast with the CT. Mine is coming in about a year or so lol I expect there to be a few significant improvements vs this tear down victim.
Have we worked out what happens with the steering if the vehicle no longer has power? Will I still be able to steer the wheels to safely manoeuvre the vehicle off harms way? I think this type of situation is more likely to happen than having triple redundancies for system failures.
You have a main battery and an auxiliary battery. If the main battery fails then the vehicle has no motive power but the auxiliary battery can still drive the steering system. If Aux fails then the main battery can provide power. If both fail then regenerative braking can provide emergency power.
they have backups.... but when you run out of juice in the main battery, it slows, slows, and slows even more, and before it completely shuts off, it makes sure you are stopped. There are vids of people running them out of power
I know I’d feel a lot safer knowing there is an intermediate shaft which can be coupled by a clutch if there is a computer failure or loss of power - which is what the Infiniti system does. Normally, the system is drive-by-wire unless there’s a problem, and then an electromagnet drops out and re-couples the intermediate shaft to the rack. Tesla ditching the intermediate shaft gives more packaging options, but favoring packaging over safety is may be not a good choice in a mass market consumer product.
@@danharold3087 I apply Occam’s Razor when in my approach to engineering, that simple solutions are most often the best solutions. A non-powered mechanical fall-back is simple and address the loss of the 48 Volt power which the system in the Cybertruck can not address. Packaging apparently won the argument for the Cybertruck. Time will tell if that was a good choice.
@@wtmayhew The cyberTruck is a technology demonstrator. Trying out new tech prior to putting it into much higher production vehicles. So no point in Occams's Razor here. I have not verified it but I would expect the CT to use the traction battery as a 2nd source and regen braking as a possible 3rd. By my thinking the car makers that are going to survive are the ones who can build the most appealing car for the money. Be it a $10K or a $100K car.
@@danharold3087 Yes, you could steer enough to at the very least get off the road using the traction motors provided you have a functioning control system. That has the potential to introduce trouble because the traction system has to work cooperatively with the ZF steering subsystem. Tesla probably won’t do it because it would require extensive integration testing to be sure the traction subsystem only takes over when it should. It also requires the steering input to be functional. ZF might also have something to say, that they refuse to certify their system if it is coupled to control code which they can’t review; engineering by lawyers as it were.
Could you guys give an explanation as to why the cybertrucks creak when turning the wheels at a standstill. It’s not a very confidence inspiring noise. I haven’t heard any other car do that.
It's because they were turning the wheels while stationary. It's the noise of the rubber being scrubbed on the cement floor. Any other truck would make the same noises on that identical floor if you turn the wheels without moving forward. Generally it not normally something anyone does.
I watched the video yesterday, and this morning I woke up with an epiphany. I'm pretty sure I know why ZF incorporated 2 servomotors on the front steering rack, and it has nothing to do with the non-existant "triple redundancy". It's to provide enough force to steer this giant tire/wheel combination. My guess is that ZF had an off-the-shelf servomotor that was just not quite enough to steer those huge wheels in certain situations, like when the vehicle is off road and one or both of the front wheels is stuck in a deep rut or up against a rock. And rather than design a newer larger servo, they just doubled up with smaller motors. And this would explain why ZF/Tesla had to add a third position sensor. Has nothing to do with redundancy.
Can you show us boat mode, or car wash mode, or the mode which makes the 2 tyres turn in on each other, or the mode which breaks the suspension, or the mode that rusts the paint?
Word salad nonsense. It has multiple redundancy on both sensors and actuators so if any part fails, control is maintained and the failure gets reported so you get it fixed.
@@jamesengland7461 Yes, I know what it means, with multiply redundant systems it’s largely meaningless. An optical encoder typically has an mtbf of 500,000 hours and Tesla have triple redundancy. You’re more likely to have a jumbo jet land on your head.
@@mikal4452 No. Good chance I heard someone explaining the system and the redundant elements. Don't know which video. That and it would be nuts not to use a redundant sensor here.
Being able to adjust the steering ratio sounds like a dream. There are plenty of times I wish my truck had a quicker ratio but I'd have to somehow find a steering rack that fits my truck and is quicker, so basically it ain't happening.
As much as I like Tesla and the Cybertruck- I have to point out that the 2 ribbon cables which provide steering input commands to the rack and pinion motors does not qualify as redundant, much less "double redundant"
Both ribbon cables share a single connector which means the connector becomes a single point of failure that impacts both systems.
This concerns me as it would not qualify in an industrial application as "redundant" much less when applied to a "people mover" application.
Thought the exact same thing. There also seemed to be an implication the steering motors were powered by that ribbon cable, which is clearly not the case. Also, no doubt the front module just communicates with the steering motors/sensors using can bus. Also find it intriguing that a massive connector almost the size of a human hand is apparently a marvel compared to a simple, compact and cheap 4 pin connector which would otherwise be used (12v, gnd, can high, can low).
Agreed, redundant would be two separate cables taking separate paths to separate ports.
Sandi pretends to be all knowing, expert on all subjects, that's the worst kind, pretend to know, blow smoke, hope the check clears. Another fake, phony fraud...And he doesn't understand what vertically integrated means either. He claims Tesla is, tesla is far from it. What a tool.
@@coreyw427 this cable is not the purpose described in the video, and You are right with CanBus. Actually, the motors are driven by it.
Looks like there is two cables for redundancy.
Wait, so the redundancy on the cabling is done with cables that are TOUCHING each other? So if some physical damage occurred to one wire will very likely affect the other wire set that is TOUCHING it? Crazy.
Truck is Stainless Steel , NOTHING can penetrate.
@@markplott4820Penetrate? Wires don't need to be penetrated with external stuff to get cut... Besides, most of Cybetruck is built from anything but stainless steel.
@@markplott4820 only the outside...far away from these wires that can easily wear on other things...ive seen wires that are rubber coated in rubber clamps still wear through fully and short
whoa keyboard engineer! don't jump to conclusions..
@@stunnerdoc true
lock-to-lock is closer to 340 degrees. From centered to max turn is about 160-170 degrees.
You REALLY need to get your eyes checked. LOOK AT the video again. IT IS NOT 340 degrees. It is more like under 300 degrees, maybe 280 degrees is more like it. 360 is the full circle.
@1flash3571 he is correct 170 degrees.
@@1flash3571 he is correct - there are pictures of the CT screen showing +/-160-170deg steering wheel angle for lock 32deg at the front wheels. So 320-340deg lock to lock depending on the ratio provided (by nature of the system it can be changed to even less SWA required)
@@felixweinreich3999 Soooo, when SM did the ACTUAL TURN, that is FAKED???????? WTH you talking about????? I saw what I saw, and he turned it from left to right to the MAX and it wasn't 320 degrees.
@@1flash3571 SbW is variable gear ratio! You could also do plus minus 10deg lock to lock if you want to... but actually cybertruck on the road has standstill lock to lock around 320-340deg!!! Will be different when you change the vehicle speed (even more indirect ratio) Cybertruck shows the data on the screen with steering gear rack travel, steering wheel angle and road wheel angles...
Planes have fly by wire systems, they also have legally mandated service schedules, detailed log books, controlled operating conditions and highly trained pilots who are legally obliged to report any deviations from the flight envelope.
Redundancy is only useful if the failure of the primary systems are apparent to the operator, if one cable fails the system degrades. Putting two cables in parallel doesn’t suffice and can make things worse, if one cable gets mangled and shorts it may disrupt the second.
I can honestly say I didn't think this was going to happen but I'm taking delivery of my cyber truck before Sandy finishes the teardown.
And it’ll be rusty before he finishes it 😂
@@kentonian wow you are really out of touching that one
@@kentonian Cybertrucks don't rust. Try to keep up.
@@kentonianand youll still be a tard
me, too, I hope.
Confused by REDUNDANCY terminology.
Also had same issue with the Boeing computers description I have seen elsewhere.
For instance you showed what seemed to be a twin cabled lead and called it double redundant. Is this a difference between American English/Math and English English/Maths?
In English English a double cable would simply be called a (single) redundancy. A double redundancy (two redundancies) would be three cables. Likewise "triple redundant" system would be four systems.
Or did I not see/hear all the redundants being described?
No, it's not a region difference, it's just poor understanding of the terminology.
@@brianb-p6586 As in my poor understanding or various engineers on TH-cam?
My UK 1980's training (and since) was very definite that a single redundancy consists of two systems, and so on.
@@johnpublicprofile6261 I was referring to Sandy's poor understanding of terminology.
Not quite sure where this claim of triple redundancy is coming from. There's either some complete ignorance of the meaning of "redundancy" at Munro's shop, ot there's some clever marketing (lies) coming through back channels from Tesla to Munro.
@@Thegrimmechanic yeah, after some initial scepticism and criticism, Sandy seems to have become a big Tesla/Musk fan.
Suspect there's at least some Tesla "boosting" going in here....
For a second I thought Armin was a Jordan but super sized 😂Both are buff looking dudes
i did the same thing. then he started talking lol
yeah lol
They could joke around and call each other “ twins”
my first thought was, is that his bigger brother?
@@ralanham76 [twin spider-man meme]
Glad to see other Munro team members showing their expertise in these tear downs.
They are experts in “reverse engineering” LMFAO!!
@@Gr0gansm1th
You're underestimating reverse engineering?
Isnt it better to make the cable separate? What if something happens that the cable is damaged. If they are so close together they can be both damaged
I have been begging for a wiring episode. I would assume elon wouldn't want it because everyone is kinda trying to catch up to elon, but yeah, we all got questions. they could separate the cables, so it runs on either side of the battery, so one gets damaged, it uses the other....
And both cables connect to the same point, a little corrosion there takes both out. Not really a triple redundant system.
And what happens if you lose power? Either through battery failure, accidental/intentional power off or connection failure.
Is there any sort of mechanical steering wheel lock on Teslas as there are when legacy ignition keys are removed?
@@GntlTchNope. Check Out of Spec reviews… they tested and answered your question.
A rat would chew both cables ar once
Very nice that the logo of ZF (Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen) from Germany is on the case. This confirms, once again, how self-confident ZF is, that they are able to enforce their logo there at Tesla. This also shows that Tesla simply uses the innovations of Tier 1 suppliers for many components.
And proving Sandi is all confused when he keeps using the term "vertically integrated"....tesla is far from it. they are an assembler like all others, that get parts from thousands of OEM suppliers. sandi is so confused, so many times. He thinks if he pretends to know stuff, and keeps the same lies, like a politician, it becomes the truth. Wake up, 70's porn mustache
Can someone explain what the purpose of the redundant ethernet cables is when they share the same connector? I would think you'd want redundant connections as well. What am I missing?
PARTS Reduction.
the BEST part is no Part.
@@markplott4820 @sphigel1 it's because they have two sets of pins in the same connector. Connector probably ridiculously robust. Really impressive engineering, both design and DFM.
I can - it is BULLSHIT. That connector connects front zonal module and rear zonal controller to RWS INSIDE the vehicle. The flat ribbon cable and this connector are NOT designed for environmental conditions in the "engine bay".
You can see the male connectors on the SbW rack actuators (split into BIG power and communication seperate). Each one - no way that blue one is connected to the SbW system directly! I also highly doubt it is 100% ethernet. And redundancy terminology is also mixed up in the whole video. The power is coming from a different wiring to the power packs (each probably >1kW, you don't run >20A @ 48V on that tiny ribbon cable!). And then they get the steering commands from another gateway/ethernet switch connecting feedback actuator (driver steering wheel) and the SbW gear.
It's MUSH engineering, and Sandi is clueless. He's always knowing more, just ask him. and he has been impressed by a matchstick, if it had "Tesla" on the box
@@cengeb - SANDY knows MORE about TESLA , than he is Disclosing.
MUNRO makes Business of SELLING Teardown reports & vehicle COSTING.
I bought a $5 (FULL) Report from MUNRO on the BMW i3, I was thinking of making a Affordable city car , at the time.
If I were Stranded w/ just a Matchstick in a Foreign Country , I would make it back , with $1 Million in my pockets.
DONT underestimate what Match can do.
3 cheers to Sandy and his crew for yet another so nice explanation.
really ??? :-)
Airplanes have redundancy on all crucial systems, but Cybertruck doesn't have redundancy on power for example. So if power fails, you will lose steering.
There's a reason why other brands still have mechanical backup on drive by wire systems.
Also the amount of electronic overhead on this system leads me to believe it's not as cheap or as light as its mechanical counterpart.
As far as boats, we've seen what happens when they lose power, they collide into bridges because they lose steering, for example.
There is a little redundancy in the front and rear steering wheels. If the front went out you could very slowly navigate the car. Probably enough to get it off to the side of the road.
That is assuming it failed in the center 😅
As you can see in the video it has two motors on the steering rack, it would make sense that each motor would have it's independent steering sensors and separate power supplies for redundancy.
Also it looks like Lexus steer by wire didn't have mechanical failsafe, anyways these are road cars not airplanes, the safety requirements have nothing in common.
Maybe not an advantage in weight but clearly makes driving more interesting and easy.
2:40 what causes all that creaking? doesn’t sound good
Jordan had a growth spurt!
Haha.
Great video guys!
Thanks for watching!
Roids.
At least a foot taller
@@richardkule9384no. KISS boots. 😅
Monroe team member is chomping at the bit to say more. Sandy is looking as fantastic as ever, but these young bucks are eager. Bless you both. This isn't an easy transition....car included.
Also, Armin has been working out, holy smokes!!!
I think he must be a distant relative of Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. He's got the accent and everything :)
Thank you for bringing that to us. Surrealism defined.
Great video, very educational. It's all about the tech! Thanks guys.
Thanks for watching!
@@MunroLive this isnt a true 48 volt architecture another tear down company on autoline daily proved it. plus the honda prelude back in the 80s had rear wheel steering lol nothing new and steer by wire isnt required or nessasary for a vehicle. this truck would be alot better if it was a hybrid so it could actually tow 500 miles unlike false advertisement from 2019. this truck is a gimmick period obsolete and outdated.
Redundant and sometimes triple redundant on everything.... Except power! No mention of a redundant 48 volt power supply.
@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn you sound like an expert. What redundancy would you expect to see?
@@tomz1364 I'm not an expert. But...
On something as critical as steer by wire, I would like to see end to end redundancy, including power. That means a backup battery separate from the 48 volt battery and separate from the car's main battery. In a different location in the vehicle. These systems should be completely failsafe. At least before I would ever consider buying one.
Also... I would hope that if there is a failure, the computer doesn't allow someone to continue driving the car. 50 to 100 miles to get home and it should shut down until the problem is corrected. Again, not an expert, just my opinion on the subject.
Does it have dual batteries for the steering motors? If not, what happens if the battery fails?
I was wondering about that as well.
The gearbox shown at 8:18 is clearly a worm gear driving a wheel which is on the pinion shaft. There might be planetary reduction as well, I suppose.
That is what it looked like to me, too.
100% - no planetary drive required for the ratio between motor and rack. That is a worm drive connecting motor output shaft (worm) and pinion (connected to worm wheel).
Just awesome presentation. Keep it up Sandy. We're counting on you!!!
Any OEM that isn't paying Munro for their teardown analysis will be the first to go bust. BZ to SM and his team for educating the masses.
Well done folks from all of us in Canada. I cant wait to take delivery of mine. Cheers
Tesla don't supply vehicle to Munro. Munro buy the vehicle & sell the reports to pay for the vehicle.
I think Sandy remarked on this a few years ago. Only the Koreans and Japanese were paying him for the analysis (that or the USA OEMs were paying but not making any of the recommended changes). He said that Tesla was the only OEM that implemented all of the recommended changes (or maybe most? ...I think he was talking about the Model 3 ...my brain is a little slow this morning lol).
It is very hard to make changes for domestic (USA) OEMs especially if the changes eliminate a union job. (I lived in NE Ohio and had relatives working for Delphi & Lordstown in management and on the line ...crazy stories!)
Electric steering has under development by OEMs for over 2 decades. I’m not seeing much unique here, only the 48V power.
@@KiwiMechEng Yes, you said it. In development in last 2 decades & still under development. What a winner!
Do you really think the OEMs do not themselves buy and look at cars from competitors.
One of my favorite things to do in my Cybertruck is u-turns. Especially when I have someone with me who drives trucks.
A regular Toyota Hilux has a shorter turning radius though, so I doubt they'd be impressed.
@@logitech4873 A Hilux is a much smaller truck. Like, MUCH.
Until your accelerator pedal sticks and ur doing doughnuts at 120 mph. Good luck champ
@@FrickYourHandle hater gonna hate
@@logitech4873turning radius? Wheelbase of Hilux?
In 1988 a friend bought a Honda Prelude with 4 wheel steering. Not steer-by-wire, but that thing was fun to drive.
Thanks for the descriptions and views of the beast's steering.
Do you remember if that year prelude has the long steering driveshaft to a separate rack in the rear? I know they started using electronic rear steering on the preludes but can't remember which year
@@DoingthingswithDAN That I don't know. It was a new 1988 .
@@DoingthingswithDAN Electronic 4ws didn't come until the 4th gen Prelude.
@@ShaunRF ah that's right the ugliest of the preludes
Impressive tech - thanks for the tour guys. Couple thoughts come to mind on truly redundant systems - I would want those ribbons routed differently through the vehicle structure vs side by side, and I certainly wouldn’t want them terminating in a common connector. It would be interesting to know if that conversation happened during the design phase - especially on the common terminal and if someone pulled up data to say the chance of failure at that point was so small it wasn’t remotely worth designing two different interface points.
My thoughts too - using a common connector means the redundancy isn't there. Additionally, in both tear-downs I've seen, there seems to be only a single sensor at the end of the steering shaft measuring the driver input, so if that's correct that's a huge gap in the system's overall redundancy,
It's a single pair that allows bidirection ethernet data transfer. The cables are flat to allow better routing.
The other motor will have an independent pair.
The tie breaker will have another independent pair.
Command signal is triple redundant, drive motors are dual with a fail safe design.
^guessing
@@Krixz_20 They only mention the one pair of ethernet cables. Seems like there's some redundancy, but it only extends as far as the steering motors and sensors on the rack, not on the cabling / connectors or steering input sensor reading driver inputs. I'd love to have clarity on this, but thus far it seems and looks only partly redundant.
@gruppefbc I think Sandy got caught out talking electrical stuff. Where is the steering wheel, where are the front drive units (close), why is that ethernet cable several meters long with a single connector? I think it's for the back wheels.
@@Krixz_20 That's certainly a very plausible theory of the cabling being for the rear motor. Still leaves questions unanswered though, especially the key one of if there is any redundancy on the steering wheel input sensor. If there's only one sensor, that's a huge failing of a key safety aspect of the system.
Steer-by-wire is used on just about everything imaginable, except cars... and trucks, and motorcycles, and light aircraft, and older aircraft, and small boats...
@ MunroLive how can "steering by wire" be TRIPLE redundant, if we could smash/disconnect SINGLE Ethernet-loop connector.. hmmm ?
Armin is what Jordan Arocha would look like if you put him in the Captain America machine!
Lmaooo
It’s more ZF steer by wire, than Tesla. They build these systems for years. Don’t understand the hype. The problem is not steer by wire, which is old technology, but need for a backup steering system outside the US.
re: "Don’t understand the hype." A: well Ego and regardless of where the Stock is at...? the "scam" of the Jordan Belfort Pump And Dump must continue unabated.
It's all ZF and third party suppliers, Tesla couldn't do shit without those innovative giants.
You don't understand the hype.
Yeah, real time industrial control has been around for years (e.g. EtherCAT was standardised about 20yrs ago, and allows real time control over ethernet in various topologies (including ring).
Doubt that Tesla have invented anything new here - why wouldn't they use existing chipsets for this?
Suspect their "Etherloop" is just one of these existing protocols and about the only thing Tesla has added of it's own is marketing hype....
Sandy was right; the next software update will increase the steering angle of the rear wheels. Yes, ZF is developing the Steer by Wire system for the CT together with Tesla. Tesla works with many hidden champions in Germany, but of course, you know which Tier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers Tesla has.
crap!!!! didnt tesla made the steering angle up to 10 degrees+ from factory!? why didnt tesla made the locking diff also available?! those are just lame excuses! the very old chevy quadrasteer had a significantly much bigger rear steer angle from factory.
ZF is the worlds largest automotive supplier and makes parts for literaly all manufacturers, rear wheel steering is also been in development with all manufacturers too! mercedes and other manufacturers have much bigger trucks that offers up to 3 or 4 steering axles.
Tesla had bought RIVERA tool & die , and GROMAN Engineering many years ago.
@@alanmay7929 Bosch is the largest, whilst ZF is big, Bosch is bigger
@@cengeb zf is both
In control engineering, the arrangement is called 2oo3 ( 2 out of 3majority voting ) system....not triple redunandant.
Triplr Redundant to a SINGLE control unit is adequate to guarantee an acceptable level of safety such that any fault will automaticallly force the car to go into a safe state to protect the car and its occupants from an accident.
My guess is that the third sensor is not for safety or redundancy. Odds are that ZF/Tesla went with two servomotors on the front steering rack in order to provide enough steering power to steer this giant tire/wheel combo in certain off road environments. Anyone that's ever worked on a dedicated offroad racing truck would understand this. I believe the third sensor is for power management between the two servomotors since they have to run synchronously all the time. This is not a design for redundancy.
@@Thegrimmechanic that is nonsense. If they would do as You say, they would just make one longer motor for bigger torque.
@@marcink5820 It is not nonsense, it's commonplace to design this way for many reasons. One reason is for space constraints. there may be a 'packaging' issue that requires the use of two smaller motors rather than one big one. Look at how aircraft are designed. The other reason is inline with the patent (but I'm guessing you never read it) to make the obsurd claim of redundundancy.
Is it really wise physically running the 2 redundant data cables attached together? A physical event that damaged/severed one cable would likely damage/sever the other since they are attached. The cables should be separated and run down different sides of the front chassis for safety. Just seems crazy to me for a system that’s supposed to be redundant for safety.
If you've had an impact so severe that those cables are seriously damaged, that would have completely destroyed the steering shaft in any other vehicle.
They aren’t attached, they do run independently, Sandi holding them together is not the same 🙄
@@fredbloggs5902 There’s only a single connector on each end of the cables, they do appear to be attached/run together.
@@Weezedog Now go lookup the published wiring loom of the Tesla 48V system, you can clearly see everything is duplicated.
@@otm646 honestly we don’t have an idea exactly where/how the cables are run through the chassis so no idea how susceptible the cables are to pinch/crush/rubbing damage.
Can you guys measure any response delay? Probably just the flex of the rubber, but the sound of the sand under the tyres definitely is delayed a little.
It looks like center to lock is a bit less than 180 degrees. Therefore lock to lock is about 330-340 degrees, not “less than 180”
What happens to steering in case of a power issue? If the low voltage battery malfunctions while driving, is there any backup power source?
At least Boeing had a half ass set of controls if all power was lost! F.A.A. made that a law along time ago!
But Boeing cut cost in this little area and planes started falling!
Elon has decided its wise to take all control out of your hands and let a computer call the shots!😖
There is no solid link from driver to wheels!
And Boeing had a left and right flap that was controlled by cable when all power was lost.
The FSD this month for free is a solid level 3. I have owned Tesla’s since 2017 with FSD. This April is amazing. I just moved to a new city. The FSD is a game changer either voice or manual navigation and you end up at your destination. Minimal take over. Navigates well in scary parking lots very impressive. Maybe we will have flying cars with Tesla in the lead!
re: "Tesla in the lead!" sorry no, i just flew back Sunday into PHL in a REAL PLANE (Airbus A321 Neo) after spending 8 days out in Phoenix "making house calls" on everything from Legacy EV, to Lucid's AMP-1 factory, to Nikola's HQ and the Tre Semi, to Gruber Motor's service of Tesla Roadsters, to the Arizona SuperShow at State Farm Stadium, etc, and in between all these visits additionally spending time riding around (falling asleep even) in the BACK SEAT of Waymo's numerous robot Jaguars (a visitor to the city literally can't throw a rock around the campus of ASU/Tempe without hitting one)...
thus rest assured NOBODY in the PHX (or the SFO for that matter) believes for ONE SECOND that Tesla is going to lead anything related to Autonomous Driving, never mind anything related to Aviation at this late date in History. that's right, for i declare the FSD CODE HAS BEEN CRACKED (and just as i thought not by Tesla) plus it is already operating at 98% efficiency with Waymo's "Sentinels" only having been "deployed" in this part of AZ for 2 years...
now for those struggling terribly with Denial and Cognitive Dissonance, be advised i have MULTIPLE 15 minute long videos on my phone that i'd be happy to show you.
We've been running FSD since August 2023 and love it. Version 12.3.4 is a game changer. It's not level 3 because it still needs me paying attention at all times since it does make an occasional mistake, but 99% of the time it could be level 3. For example, in Utah it kept wanting to cross the double lines going into and out of HOV lanes. I totally agree on how great the navigation is. We left Santa Monica and it correctly navigated us over 5 or 6 different freeways just getting to Interstate 15.
@@phillyphil1513 You do realize that Waymo has scanned the areas they are driving around in, riiiiiiight? Imagine Waymo trying to scan ALL the roads in the U.S. and any place it is able to go....That would be a NIGHTMARE, AND need a large data centers for those data for the roads it is driving on, AND it needs to rescan those areas on a consistent basis due to construction, or other possible changes it may have after it was scanned. YOU HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE.
That etherloop wire+connector looks interesting.
First of all, the cable is not twisted pair like we're used to seeing with Ethernet.That seems important, since twisted pair and differential signalling is the way ethernet builds resistance to interference. I would love to know how this system was made resistant to interference, or if Tesla perhaps found that twisted pairs are not needed and differential signalling works just fine over this flatcable design. It would be helpful to know how this cable is routed in the actual car.
Second of all, I would be interested to know how many contact points are present on the connectors.
My 1994 Stealth RT/TT has active all wheel steering and it's 30 years old. Porsche 928, BMW 850, and even some Honda Preludes all had it in the 90s.
Thanks for your information
Were they steer by wire, or all mechanical?
@@1flash3571 Makes no difference if it works
Yep they called out the other types of 4w steering in the video. Hydrolic, mechanical etc.
928 is passive system where wheels move to direction providing understeer. There is one extra rubber joint in lower control arm. When brake is applied wheel turns inwards instead of outwards as in usual suspension arm. There is no rack or any other extra control mechanism in it. Prelude, 850 etc. were more sophisticated systems back then.
Great job!! I love watching these tear downs.. I do tool design 4 slide machines so they are very interesting!! Keep them rolling!! Thx 🇺🇸✌️
Yes, the rear unit is almost certainly belt drive - it appears to be ZF's standard _AKC Central_
Nope! AKC looks different. This is Schaeffler RWS with planetary roller gear (belt connection to motor)
interesting - my link to the Schaeffler press release has been deleted... just google "Schaffler Rear Wheel Steering Cybertruck" - should be the "world premiere" link
@@felixweinreich3999 they're generally similar, and neither matches what we're seeing in the Cybertruck in every detail, but it does look like the Schaeffler RWS. They're both belt-drive. It's hard to imagine getting steering components from two different suppliers, but it can be done.
@@brianb-p6586 I can see the Schaeffler position sensor design in another video ;-) Trust me it is Schaeffler and not ZF RWS - I've seen both in real life, CAD and also driven them
Hey Sandy their is a little Easter egg for you when you open up the steering feed back actuator and look at the PCB.
So the Tie Breaker sensor would be polled and if it was significantly out of synch you would get an error code to have the car serviced soon, but if one of the main actuator position sensors failed, then I wonder if it would disable that actuator and then rely on the 2 remaining position sensors in a limp mode to get the car to a service. Or perhaps the 2 good sensors could operate both actuators and operate more normally with the error code. Triple redundancy is pretty cool.
I think it is actually just continuous. By that I mean every input is polled in real time--probably more than 100 times per second--and whichever two sensors are closer to agreement for that particular polling event are assumed to be correct. If there is a repeating discrepancy by the same sensor where it is the odd man out over some preset time span, then the system will flag it as defective and signal a fault that needs attention.
I suspect that each sensor module actually has two sensors so that if a sensor fails it can be detected and ignored. This is how SpaceX designed their triple redundant system.
Unless this system is a poor design the sensors and actuators as independent. They're packaged together for convenience. What happens when a sensor fails is up to the software. I can tell you what I think makes sense.
Read all 3 sensors all the time.
If any sensor disagrees or fails to respond we still have enough information to drive the truck but should a 2nd fail we don't. That could be very bad news so the truck needs service. *An error code alone would be a bad idea.* What the software allows the driver to do is up to Tesla.
If it were an airplane we could continue to fly with 2 and even 1 sensor. With the car one has to allow the car to safely stop. We don't want people driving around with less than 3 good sensors but we don't want to endanger them by forcing their hand at an 'inconvenient' moment. There are both engineering and legal issues here.
That sensor is actually a plastic box containing two completely independent sensors with two independent circuits. Which means that the two sensors are actually quadruple redundant. This way they can look at each pair independently and when one is in agreement and another one is also in agreement but slightly different they can measure that there is a slight difference but if it fails in a way where one of the four sensors is significantly off It can ignore it and make an assumption about which one is bad. There's a lot more information you can get.
Unfortunately, in the software world we see different design considerations that people mistake for triple redundancy. Rather these big clusters can operate on three systems, but is not triply redundant. Instead it supports up to hundreds of systems, but locks when there are just two. That's because the chosen failure mode is different because people don't die if the server goes offline.
6:12 I would like to know more about the big gooseneck on the wheel assemblies, where the upper control arm is attached. It’s only on the front wheels. The rear wheels don’t have them.
I’m curious because I want to know how to change the structure to:
Raise the height of the lower control arm so there is more clearance.
Redesign the parts so you don’t need control arms, so you can go to 90 degree turn.
I guess it would be called 90 degree steer.
80 or 75 degree steer would make a big difference too.
The trick is more ability with fewer or simpler parts. Anyone can design a truck wheel that steers 360 degrees. But is it simple, is it durable?
million dollar question: How is the 48v power supply redundancy / backup handled and where? A total loss of 48v power is going to be a problem! Does the rack still have mechanical self centering, ie is the motor drive ratio and motor friction/cogging low enough for the castor angle to push the wheels back to centre in the case of a complete loss of 48v power, or can the vehicle use brake bias to steer in extremis?
you aren't the first person to think of that. Maybe go watch more tesla vids. Tesla has two electrical systems in each car. The main battery winds down, and it slows you down. Eventually, when the battery is 1% it doesn't let you go faster than 1 mph. Then it shuts off. You still have lights and steering powered by the backup battery system.
@@davidanalyst671 no. i'm not talking about a HV traction battery discharge or failure, i'm talking about redunancy on the 48V battery and asscosicated electrical distrubution system. I'm sure the SBW meets ISO 26262, i just would like to understand how that is achieved with respect to the 48v power architecture. I'd immagine it is furnished through very careful fusing and discretisation of dual feed paths,using both the 48v storage battery and the HV-LV DCDC to provide seperate and non-cascadable redundancy!
seems , you haven't EVER driven a TESLA .
total FAILURE is Exceptionally RARE.
Well presented just one question what type of 48 volt back up systems are
used for the steer by wire system in a power supply failure (no power no steering )
I know that Toyota Lexus has a lithium emergency back up battery
How is rear wheel steering a new technology? I had a rear wheel steering on my 7 series some 12 years ago.
Also, the rear steering on the CT is necessary for the poor design, so this can just barley have a WORSE steering radius than a Suburban.
excellent in depth overview. thanks
Thank you!
Sounds like the 2 mic audio tracks weren’t synced in the edit hence the echo/reverb when they both talk and both tracks need to be unmuted for those sections
Interesting to see confirmation if it really only is Ethernet and not CAN for SbW (I'm not aware of an released automotive Ethernet spec with TSN allowing for priorization and deterministic availability required for such a system). And again - don't guess on things you haven't opened. It is very likely NOT a planetary gear but a simple worm gear from motor shaft to pinion shaft for the required ratio to rack travel (dual pinion steering gear)
Despite the description at 4:29, four wheel steering is not new. Active 4WS still isn't common, but it has been around for many years.
Monro is a national treasure. Thank you for educating the masses on the innovations of Tesla and all EVs.
Sandy and Armin Rock!
Another ZF symbol under the encoder casting at 9:01
It's all ZF, or other major suppliers, Tesla would never be able to develop those things on their own.
Really enjoying these CyberTruck tear downs. Nice
Does anyone know what car wash mode does? I've heard of cybertrucks bring bricked by going through a car wash without this mode on? And the warranty being voided if you go through car wash without it being on or washing the truck in the sun.
At 8:29, that's not a planetary gear; it's a worm gear set. The steering motor uses a worm gear to drive a helical gear. The steering shaft features a linear gear that moves back and forth. The worm gear set is used because it generates the highest torque and has a self-locking mechanism. In fact, the two steering motors may be working together in sync to produce more torque when the Cybertruck experiences a very sharp turn at high speed and acceleration.
If we would buy a smaller vehicle for the city, would we still need 4-wheel-steering?
No
don't even need it on a crew cab long bed 1 ton truck
Depends where. In the EU where a Ford Escape is a large SUV, yes.
If you use a bicycle in the city you can even get away with 1-wheel steering.
Looks like the Car Wizard is moonlighting at Munro and disassembling the Cybertruck!
Weeeezard
Do the two sets of cabling use different paths through the car's structure for reliability and fault, damage, tolerance?
That little lift is pretty neat seeing the safety latch automatically engage when it isn't moving.
My biggest question: Is the toe in angle controlled by strictly mechanical connections? Or is there a dynamic adjustment to the toe-in depending on what the rear steering is doing?
Strictly mechanical. The difference is how the pinions are driven. The rack is the same.
WOW Awesome content. Very insightful analysis and great work.
Next level engineering. Nothing but minor tweaks from lessons learned for the Gen 2. Incredible design.
lol, no
Did I see BMW style axles and hubs? Face drive instead of splines. Are they hot-forged like BMW or do they look machined? I also saw Ford style outer tie rods. What benefit is there in such a wide angle non self-locking taper?
This explanation was way convoluted I feel. My try: 1. The complete turning radius of the steering wheel is 200 to about 240 degrees. 2. at slower speeds small motions of the steering wheel result in big motions of the wheels. 3. at high speeds bigger motions of the steering wheel lead to smaller motions of the wheels. =)
Sandy’s videos are for semi informed people in the automotive industry. It’s going to sound complex and dragged out. For a lot of us we like to see and hear all the details, not just the basic information that’s been said by everyone.
nothing special actually!
@@Zeesneakyninja No, it's just incoherent. It's neither succinct nor detailed.
❤ what a wonderfull truck. Picture shows pneumatic suspension. Won’t it be possible to make it electromagnetic so damping motion of the wheels generats electric power?
I would say the steering system has redundancy with parity check vs it being triple redundant.
On ehuge benefit of by-wire steering is the ability for the system to decide what steering roadwheel angle to apply no matter what the driver input to the handwheel is. The biggest problem when calibrating a dynamic stability control system is drivers who "wang" the handwheel all over the shop, upsetting the system. With by-wire steering, you can perfectly control vehicle yaw with a roadwheel steering input as well as, or in preference too, a brake yaw application. Add in machine vision and lidar, and you can finally break the age old problem of drivers simply getting target fixated on the thing they are about to hit, and as a result hitting it. In advanced driving we teach "look where you want go, not where you don't want to go" but for most drivers, and emergency is so rare, unfolded quickly and un-expectidly, and as a result, a lot of fundamentally avoidable (through handwheel inputs in conjunction with braking) are not avoided at all....
Wenn Du sowas willst oder brauchst, ok - aber ich schalte im Winter je nach Straßenglätte und Schneelage sogar das ESP AUS - aus dem einfachen Grund, weil es hoffnungslos überfordert UND eben viel zu langsam und träge ist. Bei sportlicherer Fahrweise, ist das System sehr schnell überfordert.
Probiere es mal aus, ein außer Kontrolle geratenes Auto MIT und dann OHNE ESP wieder einzufangen - dann weißt Du was ich meine. Bei mir, war es also genau anders herum, dass das "überforderte ESP" ständig und verspätet MEINE Lenkkorrekturen dann praktisch zunichte gemacht hat. Man spürt dann regelrecht, wie das ESP mit 0,5 Sekunden immer zu spät eingreift.
All of this reminds me so much of Mercedes in the 2000’s.
Lots of new tech with lots of electrical / technical issues that plagued the cars and resulted in sales/ leases of new vehicles to rid owners of the problems.
It’s neat but not something a lot of customers would need or want. I don’t see how the benefits outweigh the risks of steer by wire on a vehicle that’s already had plenty of electrical gremlins in a short period of time.
I have a F150 lightning and love that it’s just like every ICE F150 I’ve had before aside from an electric skateboard chassis.
Let’s work on the battery charging and energy storage tech before we go reinventing the steering wheel (mechanical linkage)
Thanks! Difficult topic, feel like I'm starting to get it, much appreciated
Here's a question: would the Steer-by-wire system be able to perform what amounts to "dynamic wheel alignment"? I would think that the CyberTruck could perform micro-adjustments to the wheel alignment as the vehicle is moving to minimize rolling resistance. Maybe this has been mentioned at some point but I have not seen or heard anything about it.
Not sure what you mean. The only parameter a steer by wire system could change is toe in. And for that it would need a split rack which doubles the number of motors and sensors a much more complex design. Or am I in left field.
No.
You can clearly see the steering rack geometry is pretty standard with the usual way of adjusting alignment manually with a spanner.
Both motors work together to drive the same rack. There are 2 for redundancy/safety in case one fails.
@@danharold3087 - it was just a thought, apparently not a terribly good one, but in my defense I had not had my morning coffee so I blame caffeine deprivation. Thanks for your comment!
@@fredbloggs5902 - Understood. Thanks for that clarification. As I mentioned to the other commentor, I believe caffeine deprivation led to my wayward thought.
Cheers!
Q: Here's a question: would the Steer-by-wire system be able to perform what amounts to "dynamic wheel alignment"? A: no, well not at least with this system in the way it's currently configured, but that IS an interesting thought you have as it would simply have to be configured in the way Porsche ALREADY does it with the Rear Wheel Steering option available on the 911...
that is to say, the current generation 992 (by virtue of being a rear engine mated to a transaxle) is forced to implement the use of Rear Steer by way of 2 separate actuators (1 placed at each wheel) that are not connected as would normally be with a standard EPS rack, therein technically they are able to move INDEPENDENTLY of one another for optimal geometry (think: Ackerman Steering)...
to that end your idea of Dynamic Wheel Alignment DOES in fact exist at least in prototype form, yeah the mighty VW Group just debuted it 3 months ago iirc on a Lamborghini Huracan and it's called called AWC (Active Wheel Carrier). that's right, sorry Tesla but you lose again, unfortunately your CEO's Ego is simply not big enough to overcome the DEFICIT Tesla has to an OEM like VW who actively participate in Motorsports and Racing. again i repeat: "Anytime you win Leman 19X since 1970 (mind you someone hadn't even born yet) you learn things that the laymen and pretenders DO NOT..." (my voice)
th-cam.com/video/4KbSE2dS8-4/w-d-xo.html
is there a double redundancy on the steering angle sensor on the steering wheel as well?
Is there only one steering input sensor??? If so, this system has zero redundancy.
All of it is bs , this will get a massive recall the moment the first one broke and made a massive accident.
What happens to the triple redundancy in case of an EMP shock? Like a solar flare?
EMP will fry everything. Most cars already use electric power assisted steering so that will die and the steering effort will increase 3 times or more. Many people do not have enough strength to turn the wheel in that situation so the mechanical linkage is not a huge help. Just hope you are going straight regardless of mechanical or elctronic linkage.
Grats @TeslRebuilders, happy that you’re getting something you’re so excited about.
People hating on Tesla cause it’s en vogue while ignoring the content of the videos they post on really need to re-evaluate their priorities in life.
Constructive criticism is one thing but being an ass just for the sake of it or trying to make people feel bad for what they choose to do with their money is such a waste of energy, go focus it on something constructive.
Yes, but what do you say about the rotary mechanism of the new electric Hammer? Among other things, there is a crab movement. How is the transmission of torque from the steering wheel to the wheels implemented there?
The Ethernet connector reminds me of a larger SATA connector that exists for storage (hard drives) devices in PCs for years. Also has a visible split power / data section.
IDE 😊
SATA cable is for next update in a few years. Now it's IDE :)
Its a good thing too, because if you have a hard drive from 40 years ago, it will plug right into your cybertruck!!!! lolz
Armin seems to have that young immigrant energy that Nikola Tesla himself had, and he seems to understand Tesla’s game plan in innovation well. Sandy, more with Armin, please.
At first I thought they shrunk Sandy
Brilliant! 😂
I saw a Cybertruck at their King of Prussia mall showroom. Loved it. Finally had one pass me on the road in my Model 3. Was that you Mr. Kelce? Damn it is huge. I felt like I was driving underground .
Heads Will Roll
Amidst a chaotic month for Tesla - even by its continuously plunging standards - Facebook cofounder and multi-billionaire Dustin Moskovitz has made some pretty dire predictions for the automaker, accusing it of committing "consumer fraud on a massive scale."
"This is Enron now, folks," Moskovitz wrote on Threads, referring to the corporation that went bankrupt in 2001 after it was exposed for one of the biggest accounting frauds in history. "It may keep going, but people are going to jail at the end."
His concerns stem from a graph Tesla shared to mark a key milestone: one billion miles driven using Full Self-Driving, the company's highly fraught advanced driver assist system. He then compares it with a new graph released during Tesla's latest earnings call - an event that came with its own eyebrow raising moments.
The point of the side-by-side is this: according to Moskovitz, the automaker is wrongly recognizing its deferred revenue - revenue for a product that hasn't been delivered, like an annual subscription fee - as earned revenue through the wider release of its Autopark feature last month. This is a sketchy move, Moskovitz claims, because an earlier version of Autopark was already released with FSD years ago, resulting in inflated numbers.
"The data is presented in fraudulent ways, and it doesn't say what they claim it says even when they make it up," he wrote.
All I can say it I picked my CyberTruck up Tuesday and it is awesome!
give it time, it will have issues, major issues. What's it like to be a test guinea pig?
@@cengebwhy you speaking with hand rubbing.
I like the video/audio of the guys doing their work. The “reaction video” thing of you all taking apart the different major, minor and sub assemblies would be neat along with the usual videos where you discuss what you learn after studying the goodies.
Just a different kind of content maybe? Anyway, love the way you all are having a blast with the CT.
Mine is coming in about a year or so lol I expect there to be a few significant improvements vs this tear down victim.
Have we worked out what happens with the steering if the vehicle no longer has power? Will I still be able to steer the wheels to safely manoeuvre the vehicle off harms way? I think this type of situation is more likely to happen than having triple redundancies for system failures.
You have a main battery and an auxiliary battery. If the main battery fails then the vehicle has no motive power but the auxiliary battery can still drive the steering system. If Aux fails then the main battery can provide power. If both fail then regenerative braking can provide emergency power.
they have backups.... but when you run out of juice in the main battery, it slows, slows, and slows even more, and before it completely shuts off, it makes sure you are stopped. There are vids of people running them out of power
It can only steer if it has 48 volt power. There should be redundancy in the power supply; perhaps Munro can cover that in a future video.
@@brianb-p6586 Now I am curious. What is the voltage of the auxiliary battery. Is it 48V?
@@kazedcat yes, the low-voltage battery in the Cybertruck runs at 48 volts, nominally.
What is the viewpoint of the mechanics taking the truck apart?
Compilating FULL report.
Does anyone else want to see Armin and Jordan standing next to each other, or is that just me?
What about Sandy and Armin: is Sandy short and Armin tall? Or is Sandy normal and Armin a giant?
Everything is reduntant, but why just one connector? If the connector fails, every thing fails or does i miss something?
I know I’d feel a lot safer knowing there is an intermediate shaft which can be coupled by a clutch if there is a computer failure or loss of power - which is what the Infiniti system does. Normally, the system is drive-by-wire unless there’s a problem, and then an electromagnet drops out and re-couples the intermediate shaft to the rack. Tesla ditching the intermediate shaft gives more packaging options, but favoring packaging over safety is may be not a good choice in a mass market consumer product.
You would feel safer yes. But unless a good many intelligent engineers are wrong this is a solid system.
@@danharold3087 I apply Occam’s Razor when in my approach to engineering, that simple solutions are most often the best solutions. A non-powered mechanical fall-back is simple and address the loss of the 48 Volt power which the system in the Cybertruck can not address. Packaging apparently won the argument for the Cybertruck. Time will tell if that was a good choice.
@@wtmayhew The cyberTruck is a technology demonstrator. Trying out new tech prior to putting it into much higher production vehicles. So no point in Occams's Razor here.
I have not verified it but I would expect the CT to use the traction battery as a 2nd source and regen braking as a possible 3rd.
By my thinking the car makers that are going to survive are the ones who can build the most appealing car for the money. Be it a $10K or a $100K car.
@@danharold3087 Yes, you could steer enough to at the very least get off the road using the traction motors provided you have a functioning control system. That has the potential to introduce trouble because the traction system has to work cooperatively with the ZF steering subsystem. Tesla probably won’t do it because it would require extensive integration testing to be sure the traction subsystem only takes over when it should. It also requires the steering input to be functional. ZF might also have something to say, that they refuse to certify their system if it is coupled to control code which they can’t review; engineering by lawyers as it were.
@@wtmayhew Apparently you have an insider at Tesla.
Could you guys give an explanation as to why the cybertrucks creak when turning the wheels at a standstill. It’s not a very confidence inspiring noise. I haven’t heard any other car do that.
Friction between tire and pavement.
@@kazedcat you sure about that?
It's because they were turning the wheels while stationary. It's the noise of the rubber being scrubbed on the cement floor. Any other truck would make the same noises on that identical floor if you turn the wheels without moving forward. Generally it not normally something anyone does.
@@tesla_tap there’s two noises, the rubber sliding across the floor which is normal, and then higher pitched pinging and clanking sounds.
re: "It’s not a very confidence inspiring noise". don't sweat it, just a few well placed of shots from a "Straw Can" of WD-40, and you'll be all set.🤙
I watched the video yesterday, and this morning I woke up with an epiphany. I'm pretty sure I know why ZF incorporated 2 servomotors on the front steering rack, and it has nothing to do with the non-existant "triple redundancy". It's to provide enough force to steer this giant tire/wheel combination. My guess is that ZF had an off-the-shelf servomotor that was just not quite enough to steer those huge wheels in certain situations, like when the vehicle is off road and one or both of the front wheels is stuck in a deep rut or up against a rock. And rather than design a newer larger servo, they just doubled up with smaller motors. And this would explain why ZF/Tesla had to add a third position sensor. Has nothing to do with redundancy.
Can you show us boat mode, or car wash mode, or the mode which makes the 2 tyres turn in on each other, or the mode which breaks the suspension, or the mode that rusts the paint?
What's the mtbf? And what is the consequence of a failure?
Word salad nonsense.
It has multiple redundancy on both sensors and actuators so if any part fails, control is maintained and the failure gets reported so you get it fixed.
@@fredbloggs5902 Mean Time Before Failure, usually expressed in thousands of hours.
@@jamesengland7461 Yes, I know what it means, with multiply redundant systems it’s largely meaningless.
An optical encoder typically has an mtbf of 500,000 hours and Tesla have triple redundancy.
You’re more likely to have a jumbo jet land on your head.
Yes, like in aircraft costing millions, and constant maintenance, there are still tragic failures that happen.
@@gregcollins3404 You’re clueless.
Blocked
So the steering motors are redundant, but did I miss something or there's only a single encoder in the column? Is tere any redundancy there?
what about, if the 12/48V-System goes down during driving...no mechanical link ?
That's correct - there is no mechanical link.
what happens if the front axl falls off while driving? no spare front axle?
What if a wheel falls off at highway speeds? No deployable backup force field?
what are all the silver and black dots on the parts for? thx 4 the great videos.
They are little reflector stickers applied to the parts prior to 3D scanning. They are being put on by someone at Munro's shop.
@@Thegrimmechanic cool, thx
Standing next to Sandy this guy lives on an entirely different planet
Is there redundancy to the sensor in the steering column, or how reliable is that component considered?
Yes.
They forgot it, they need more experienced people!
@@danharold3087 Appreciate the confirmation, but do you have any info to explain?
@@TschingisTube I'm not really sure what your comment means.
@@mikal4452 No. Good chance I heard someone explaining the system and the redundant elements. Don't know which video. That and it would be nuts not to use a redundant sensor here.
About Sandy's last ppoint/ sentence, El on just reminded us in the Earnings Report, "Tesla is a Technology Co."🤔..😆
Being able to adjust the steering ratio sounds like a dream. There are plenty of times I wish my truck had a quicker ratio but I'd have to somehow find a steering rack that fits my truck and is quicker, so basically it ain't happening.
The ship that took down the Bridge in Baltimore was steer by wire! lost power, oops, there goes the bridge, yeah, real progress. What a goof