Hey friends! As we approach 5,000 subs we want to say THANK YOU! Once we hit 5k we will be having an open poll for all viewers to decide on a movie so lets get there and have some fun! -Mikey
Come on Mike. What's it been? Like 20 or 30 minutes since they recorded the last episode of Buffy where you were sick? Quit lallygagging and get well. 😉
RIP Willie Garson, the creepy security guard. I loved him as Mozzie on White Collar (a great show with one season too many). When they used the needle directly on Buffy, they wanted the full sedative to take effect immediately. The doctor used the port to allow the medication to slowly get absorbed by the body.
This is one of the most underrated BtVS episodes, in my opinion. Very funny, very creepy, great dialogue, great twists. I have no idea why some people don't like it.
For me I just don't really like that it comes right after Jenny's death and although it is an episode all about death it doesn't really feel like it's addressing HER death.
The Velociraptor eating the arms off a woman in an elevator is from Carnosaur 2 by the way, if you want to face your childhood trauma and see how silly it actually is now :P
I love it when a non-supernatural character beats a supernatural threat in, essentially, a staring contest. Xander is particularly good at it, but he isn't the only one.
I absolutely LOVE this episode...by far one of my favourites. Dur Kindestod is a German fairy tale monster...as Cordelia said it means "Child Death" and honestly one of the most intriguing and tragic parts of this episode is how buffy lost her own cousin to this creature but doesn't find out until now.
Which meant better character development than 97% of contemporary shows. There's much more focus on actual emotional arcs now than there was at the time - Buffy was one of the trendsetters for this type of storytelling in an era when network executives still heavily favoured shows that could be shown in any order without missing anything essential.
I wish people would stop calling episodes "filler episodes". If there's character development then it's NOT a filler. The biggest problem with shows nowadays is the season order is so small, writers feel like they need to jam so much action and story into those few episodes, they forget to flesh out characters so viewers actually give a crap about what's happening IN the story TO the characters.
@@deirdrestatham5730 Its true that there isn't any Buffy episode that can be lifted from one spot and placed in another. Both plot or character development prevent that. Therefore, no filler episodes.
This episode was originally a S1 episode where Angel brought Buffy to the hospital after she collapsed. It was rewritten for this spot now that Angelus is around. I've heard people say this is the moment Xander realized Buffy slept with Angel. It use to take me a minute to realize that was true considering she didn't say it when Willow found out and she wasn't there when Giles and Jenny found out. The look on his face makes me know he isn't over her yet. Poor Cordelia. Especially considering she clearly knows just by her reaction to him being willing to make sure Angelus doesn't go after Buffy at the hospital. Then it becomes even worse when she is willing to wait with him, going as far as bringing donuts. A great moment for her, but Xander doesn't feel the same way. The music during Buffy's nightime walk in the hospital while sick was great music for the DVD Menus. Willow being clueless at what playing doctor means and asking Buffy how she played (as well as Buffy's response) always gets me. Der Kinderstod is considered one of the scarier demons. Although I never really got scared or creeped out. I see most people being grossed out when the eyes elongate, and even then he never really got me. The unrealistic part isn't that the basement door was placed in the kids ward, it's that it was unlocked. The end moment with the drawing is more badass than the episode showed it. The kid really sold an underwelming kill.
Der Kindestod is the only villain that approaches Angelus in sheer loathsomeness. I could have watched her beat him to death in much greater detail. Cordy was on fire this ep. Unfortunately, Joe only thinks he's traumatized.
Good episode, reaction & discussion. Nice creepy villain and really enjoy Cordelia (especially with Giles and Xander) in this one. Also, I'm definitely with Joe on the "too soon" thing. Looking forward to Mike returning for more Buffy trauma (sorry Joe).
Excellent reaction. Again, go back to 1998 and that helps with this episode. Buffy was a hit but the status at the filming was still uncertain. The move to Tuesday had just been 4 episodes earlier and I don’t believe this had been filmed after the move. The move to Tuesday can not be properly understood by today’s viewers. The network had nothing on Tuesdays before Innocence. Many popular shows have lost viewers when they change night and that is often in a new Season. This happened in January after Monday night was its home … counter to Monday Night Football. Tuesday was a night where there were many hit shows established and here was Buffy moving overnight with no support and a new show to follow. I think that’s why having Oz be a werewolf, the comedy of Bewitched , and the Passions followed to retain and grow the audience . The promos for this episode played very much like Freddy Krueger comes to Buffy. Then the hospital parts had a definite Scream feel. This was an episode for the audience. The teen horror movie was at its peak and we thought that Freddy was going to be on Buffy and it was a Scream setting. It worked because I remember my girl friend watchers all talking about how Angel was recruiting Freddy to help kill Buffy. Joss Whedon needed to keep the audience building and he was in negotiations for more money and also developing a spin off from Buffy that the next episode was to showcase. Sometimes the back story explains the reasons and choices. Still, this is a wonderful episode that we all loved at the time.
Attention ladies and gentlemen. The writers have turned on the fasten seatbelt sign. Please return your seat backs and tray tables to their upright and locked positions. We here at Mutant Enemy know you have a choice in your gut wrenching, emotionally devastating entertainment and we appreciate that you have chosen us. Now, please brace for impact.
@PromptCriticalJello Spoilers below Season 6, man 😭 It disturbs me when Joe implies he remembers the later seasons better than the earlier ones. Like bruh, I'm over here hoping 10 year old Joe didn't see those episodes, because holy crap.
@@MB.543 1. spoilers 2. spoilers 3. spoilers 4. spoilers 5. spoiled Season 6 is definitely rough, but after season 5 and The Body.......even Seeing Red is not as difficult to watch. So yea, 10 year old Joe watching that has me "WHAT WAS WRONG WITH YOUR PARENTS?"
This was always one of my favorite episodes when I was watching the show during it's original run and it baffled me to find out that it was so disliked by the fandom. I feel like a lot of people put too much stock in the villain's design looking too much like Freddy Krueger. The plot was very creepy and the small character pieces were so fantastically written for everyone.
Well, there are some things working against it, particularly the fact that it introduces several things that won't be mentioned again. Like Buffy's fear of hospitals, for example. Ryan's lines, IMHO, were not very believable; he basically infodumps in the beginning. And... personally, I feel it strange that kids are made to stay in a hospital when their only symptom is mild fever.
Hey Joe, he didn't say he failed the police exam, he implied he never took it. He said everyone thinks security guards are just people who failed the police exam - meaning he hadn't even taken it, so that didn't apply to him. Then he said "I did take the fireman's exam. I didn't do too good."
Buffy The Vampire Slayer genres are Drama Comedy Action Horror, and occasionally some episodes are more clearly horror. By the way Joss has said the genres are in the name: Bufffy (funny name, comedy), Vampire (horror), Slayer (action). I would add that The is Drama, bit of a stretch perhaps.
I love the look on all reactors faces when they see those suction things come out of Kindestod eyes! That is one creepy villain and love how it is created. That face is still scary to me and don't like looking at him. Onward to 5,000 subscibers!
The thing is... Angelus didn't do anything in 2x17 that we didn't know he did *many* times before. Okay, it's more personal this time, but still - for Angel/Angelus, that was just a tuesday.
I love that episode, I think it's a very good one. BUT it really scared me back then, so much so, that now as an adult, I have to watch it in daytime XDD So i can understand the last episodes being a lot, because they are very intense and heavy. But that's also why season two is one of my favorite seasons ! That and Angelus ! Because as much as I cried when Angel was gone and Angelus replaced him and as much as it is horrible for Buffy... I have to admit that he's a GREAT big bad. Angelus is one of the worst villains in Buffy (and in my opinion in every show I've ever watched), in the best way possible. He's terrifying because he doesn't just kill. He likes to play and torture... He's very scary, dangerous and problematic, David Boreanaz plays him so well ! So much so, that I've always been able to separate Angel from Angelus this season. Because, even if it's the same body/actor, he doesn't look like Angel at all (if that make sense). The looks, the smiles, the overall appearance, the way he moves... That's impressive !
I thought this was a pretty decent stand alone episode, with the children in fear of the monster. Buffy again comes through and we see her as the ultimate protector she is. This is actually quite scary in that Der Kindestod is a terrible monster, which we do see throughout the show that some of the monsters are incredibly evil and terrifying. The fears of children are well shown in this episode and the innocence and fear they have. Quite a funny and cute scene at the end where we see Buffy, Willow, and Xander acting like children themselves letting Joyce run around providing them with snacks and drinks, a great scene where we are reminded they are at this point still very much kids themselves.
I avoided watching "Buffy" when it was first on because of the hype. I caught an episode by accident and when I realized how smart the writing was, I was hooked. There has never been and will never be anything quite like it.
I would've been 14 when this episode originally aired. I'm kinda glad I didn't watch this show back then. Lol. This episode was probably pretty scary for kids.
I was um...older when Buffy came out so i expect my perspective to be a little different, but At 13 or 14 (in the 80s) the horror aspect of Buffy wouldn't have fazed me a bit. I grew up on Nightmare on Elm Street, Aliens, The Thing. Phantasm and the Incredible Melting Man on late night TV. What would have horrified me would have been sitting there praying my parents wouldn't want to have 'a talk' about Buffy and Angle after Surprise and Innocence.
@PromptCriticalJello haha. I'm not a horror person. I'm the one covering my face with a blanket while scary things are happening. I used to be anyway. Now that I'm in my 40s, I just don't watch stuff like that and I don't care what anyone thinks. Lol
Slayers have supernatural healing powers, and Joyce even said Buffy never gets sick. Buffy getting sick wasn't a coincidence. It was supernatural forces putting the Slayer in the hospital so she could slay the demon. Giles even hinted that fate plays a role in where Slayers appear when in Welcome to the Hellmouth he told Buffy that there was a reason she showed up in Sunnydale, and a reason it was "now."
In my headcannon, Ryan grows up to become a Demon Hunter. He has hero written all over him, with his action to try and save the other children by leading them to where he hopes is safety. Plus, he knows about demons now, and from Buffy, he knows that there are heroes that fight them.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey friends! As we approach 5,000 subs we want to say THANK YOU! Once we hit 5k we will be having an open poll for all viewers to decide on a movie so lets get there and have some fun!
-Mikey
Come on Mike. What's it been? Like 20 or 30 minutes since they recorded the last episode of Buffy where you were sick?
Quit lallygagging and get well.
😉
RIP Willie Garson, the creepy security guard. I loved him as Mozzie on White Collar (a great show with one season too many).
When they used the needle directly on Buffy, they wanted the full sedative to take effect immediately. The doctor used the port to allow the medication to slowly get absorbed by the body.
This is one of the most underrated BtVS episodes, in my opinion. Very funny, very creepy, great dialogue, great twists. I have no idea why some people don't like it.
it's one of a handful of episodes where the monster is _too_ successful. some people just don't want to see that again.
For me I just don't really like that it comes right after Jenny's death and although it is an episode all about death it doesn't really feel like it's addressing HER death.
The Velociraptor eating the arms off a woman in an elevator is from Carnosaur 2 by the way, if you want to face your childhood trauma and see how silly it actually is now :P
Oooo , yes
I love it when a non-supernatural character beats a supernatural threat in, essentially, a staring contest. Xander is particularly good at it, but he isn't the only one.
yup.
Cordelia is fantastic in this episode. She gets some of the best dialogue and interactions.
I absolutely LOVE this episode...by far one of my favourites. Dur Kindestod is a German fairy tale monster...as Cordelia said it means "Child Death" and honestly one of the most intriguing and tragic parts of this episode is how buffy lost her own cousin to this creature but doesn't find out until now.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where even the filler episodes have better character development than 90% of anything else today.
It was like that at the time it was out, also. That's an underrated reason why the show is so great.
Which meant better character development than 97% of contemporary shows. There's much more focus on actual emotional arcs now than there was at the time - Buffy was one of the trendsetters for this type of storytelling in an era when network executives still heavily favoured shows that could be shown in any order without missing anything essential.
@@Talisguy That still happens as recently as _Ducktales 2017._ Writers and crew of it pitched a fit and Disney corrected the order.
I wish people would stop calling episodes "filler episodes". If there's character development then it's NOT a filler. The biggest problem with shows nowadays is the season order is so small, writers feel like they need to jam so much action and story into those few episodes, they forget to flesh out characters so viewers actually give a crap about what's happening IN the story TO the characters.
@@deirdrestatham5730 Its true that there isn't any Buffy episode that can be lifted from one spot and placed in another. Both plot or character development prevent that. Therefore, no filler episodes.
I love Xander’s loyalty. You wanna go? Let’s go! What a good little goober.
4:02 wtf is too soon for that. Joyce is just being considerate, and Giles is clearly distraught still😅
Top 3 creepiest monsters of the Buffyverse. The other two... still to come!
Spoiler for a joke
Spoiler for a joke
Spoiler for a joke
Spoiler for a joke
What are you talking about? We've already met Jonathan and Willow. 😉
This episode was originally a S1 episode where Angel brought Buffy to the hospital after she collapsed. It was rewritten for this spot now that Angelus is around.
I've heard people say this is the moment Xander realized Buffy slept with Angel. It use to take me a minute to realize that was true considering she didn't say it when Willow found out and she wasn't there when Giles and Jenny found out. The look on his face makes me know he isn't over her yet. Poor Cordelia. Especially considering she clearly knows just by her reaction to him being willing to make sure Angelus doesn't go after Buffy at the hospital. Then it becomes even worse when she is willing to wait with him, going as far as bringing donuts. A great moment for her, but Xander doesn't feel the same way.
The music during Buffy's nightime walk in the hospital while sick was great music for the DVD Menus.
Willow being clueless at what playing doctor means and asking Buffy how she played (as well as Buffy's response) always gets me.
Der Kinderstod is considered one of the scarier demons. Although I never really got scared or creeped out. I see most people being grossed out when the eyes elongate, and even then he never really got me.
The unrealistic part isn't that the basement door was placed in the kids ward, it's that it was unlocked.
The end moment with the drawing is more badass than the episode showed it. The kid really sold an underwelming kill.
Der Kindestod is the only villain that approaches Angelus in sheer loathsomeness. I could have watched her beat him to death in much greater detail.
Cordy was on fire this ep.
Unfortunately, Joe only thinks he's traumatized.
This episode freaked me out when I was 8 or 9 watching this when it released with my parents
There's normal human behavior and then there is classic tv trope, so you are both right regarding Giles and Joyce.
Good episode, reaction & discussion. Nice creepy villain and really enjoy Cordelia (especially with Giles and Xander) in this one. Also, I'm definitely with Joe on the "too soon" thing. Looking forward to Mike returning for more Buffy trauma (sorry Joe).
Excellent reaction. Again, go back to 1998 and that helps with this episode. Buffy was a hit but the status at the filming was still uncertain. The move to Tuesday had just been 4 episodes earlier and I don’t believe this had been filmed after the move. The move to Tuesday can not be properly understood by today’s viewers. The network had nothing on Tuesdays before Innocence. Many popular shows have lost viewers when they change night and that is often in a new Season. This happened in January after Monday night was its home … counter to Monday Night Football. Tuesday was a night where there were many hit shows established and here was Buffy moving overnight with no support and a new show to follow. I think that’s why having Oz be a werewolf, the comedy of Bewitched , and the Passions followed to retain and grow the audience . The promos for this episode played very much like Freddy Krueger comes to Buffy. Then the hospital parts had a definite Scream feel. This was an episode for the audience. The teen horror movie was at its peak and we thought that Freddy was going to be on Buffy and it was a Scream setting. It worked because I remember my girl friend watchers all talking about how Angel was recruiting Freddy to help kill Buffy. Joss Whedon needed to keep the audience building and he was in negotiations for more money and also developing a spin off from Buffy that the next episode was to showcase. Sometimes the back story explains the reasons and choices. Still, this is a wonderful episode that we all loved at the time.
Think I started watching horror when I was like 7 if you have 2 older brothers it's going to happen.
Feel better soon, Mike!
Was a good "monster of the week" episode. Xander and Cordelia were on point Let's go for the next set!
I swear, you guys need to flashback your previous predictions at the end of each season. Consider it a bottle episode.
That's it, we're doing a bottle episode!
(Sorry, can't hear "bottle episode" without thinking of Abed...)
Oh Joe, every time you mention having seen this show as a child, it makes me kind of... horrified. Buckle up fellers.
Attention ladies and gentlemen. The writers have turned on the fasten seatbelt sign. Please return your seat backs and tray tables to their upright and locked positions. We here at Mutant Enemy know you have a choice in your gut wrenching, emotionally devastating entertainment and we appreciate that you have chosen us. Now, please brace for impact.
@PromptCriticalJello Spoilers below
Season 6, man 😭 It disturbs me when Joe implies he remembers the later seasons better than the earlier ones. Like bruh, I'm over here hoping 10 year old Joe didn't see those episodes, because holy crap.
@@MB.543 1. spoilers
2. spoilers
3. spoilers
4. spoilers
5. spoiled
Season 6 is definitely rough, but after season 5 and The Body.......even Seeing Red is not as difficult to watch.
So yea, 10 year old Joe watching that has me "WHAT WAS WRONG WITH YOUR PARENTS?"
I started watching at age nine or ten. My dad introduced me to it.
...A lot of the dark stuff flew over my head.
I also started halfway through season 5, which was an interesting experience.
Joe, if you liked Arachnophobia, you'll love Infested! It's the feel-good romp of 2024.
The best antidote for Arachnophobia is Eight-Legged Freaks.,
Not an episode you should watch when too young, kind of freddy kruger light
Fitting that Mike was out sick?? Or maybe sucks cuz that means hell be watching this one.... by himself....while sick? 😅 🤷♀️
I hope you are joking about taking some time off from Buffy.
Yes we are. We won't stop until it's over
4:34 Cordelia was referencing the Buffy movie. Kristy Swanson plays Buffy and she has a mole on her face.
Thank you! I've always thought this felt like an in joke, but had no idea what about. I've seen the movie but never would have thought of that.
This was always one of my favorite episodes when I was watching the show during it's original run and it baffled me to find out that it was so disliked by the fandom. I feel like a lot of people put too much stock in the villain's design looking too much like Freddy Krueger. The plot was very creepy and the small character pieces were so fantastically written for everyone.
Well, there are some things working against it, particularly the fact that it introduces several things that won't be mentioned again. Like Buffy's fear of hospitals, for example. Ryan's lines, IMHO, were not very believable; he basically infodumps in the beginning. And... personally, I feel it strange that kids are made to stay in a hospital when their only symptom is mild fever.
Hey Joe, he didn't say he failed the police exam, he implied he never took it. He said everyone thinks security guards are just people who failed the police exam - meaning he hadn't even taken it, so that didn't apply to him.
Then he said "I did take the fireman's exam. I didn't do too good."
Buffy The Vampire Slayer genres are Drama Comedy Action Horror, and occasionally some episodes are more clearly horror.
By the way Joss has said the genres are in the name: Bufffy (funny name, comedy), Vampire (horror), Slayer (action). I would add that The is Drama, bit of a stretch perhaps.
I love the look on all reactors faces when they see those suction things come out of Kindestod eyes! That is one creepy villain and love how it is created. That face is still scary to me and don't like looking at him. Onward to 5,000 subscibers!
Hope you are feeling better soon Mike. You are missed. Nice reaction to this episode guys.
Episode 17 is the point where most people feel angelus is irredeemable. Cordelia is a laugh riot every time on screen.
The thing is... Angelus didn't do anything in 2x17 that we didn't know he did *many* times before. Okay, it's more personal this time, but still - for Angel/Angelus, that was just a tuesday.
I love that episode, I think it's a very good one. BUT it really scared me back then, so much so, that now as an adult, I have to watch it in daytime XDD
So i can understand the last episodes being a lot, because they are very intense and heavy.
But that's also why season two is one of my favorite seasons ! That and Angelus ! Because as much as I cried when Angel was gone and Angelus replaced him and as much as it is horrible for Buffy... I have to admit that he's a GREAT big bad. Angelus is one of the worst villains in Buffy (and in my opinion in every show I've ever watched), in the best way possible. He's terrifying because he doesn't just kill. He likes to play and torture... He's very scary, dangerous and problematic, David Boreanaz plays him so well ! So much so, that I've always been able to separate Angel from Angelus this season. Because, even if it's the same body/actor, he doesn't look like Angel at all (if that make sense). The looks, the smiles, the overall appearance, the way he moves... That's impressive !
I thought this was a pretty decent stand alone episode, with the children in fear of the monster. Buffy again comes through and we see her as the ultimate protector she is. This is actually quite scary in that Der Kindestod is a terrible monster, which we do see throughout the show that some of the monsters are incredibly evil and terrifying. The fears of children are well shown in this episode and the innocence and fear they have. Quite a funny and cute scene at the end where we see Buffy, Willow, and Xander acting like children themselves letting Joyce run around providing them with snacks and drinks, a great scene where we are reminded they are at this point still very much kids themselves.
I avoided watching "Buffy" when it was first on because of the hype. I caught an episode by accident and when I realized how smart the writing was, I was hooked. There has never been and will never be anything quite like it.
I agree with Joe. It seems like normal behavior to me, but at the same time, you never know with this show.🤔
I would've been 14 when this episode originally aired. I'm kinda glad I didn't watch this show back then. Lol. This episode was probably pretty scary for kids.
I was um...older when Buffy came out so i expect my perspective to be a little different, but
At 13 or 14 (in the 80s) the horror aspect of Buffy wouldn't have fazed me a bit. I grew up on Nightmare on Elm Street, Aliens, The Thing. Phantasm and the Incredible Melting Man on late night TV.
What would have horrified me would have been sitting there praying my parents wouldn't want to have 'a talk' about Buffy and Angle after Surprise and Innocence.
@PromptCriticalJello haha. I'm not a horror person. I'm the one covering my face with a blanket while scary things are happening. I used to be anyway. Now that I'm in my 40s, I just don't watch stuff like that and I don't care what anyone thinks. Lol
Slayers have supernatural healing powers, and Joyce even said Buffy never gets sick. Buffy getting sick wasn't a coincidence. It was supernatural forces putting the Slayer in the hospital so she could slay the demon. Giles even hinted that fate plays a role in where Slayers appear when in Welcome to the Hellmouth he told Buffy that there was a reason she showed up in Sunnydale, and a reason it was "now."
In my headcannon, Ryan grows up to become a Demon Hunter. He has hero written all over him, with his action to try and save the other children by leading them to where he hopes is safety. Plus, he knows about demons now, and from Buffy, he knows that there are heroes that fight them.
I am just now joining and subscribing as you seem like fun reactors, and I also love Buffy!
The kids' acting in this episode is next level.
Mikey, way, way, way too soon! Joe is completely right!!!
the dialogue is killing it these past episodes! makes me realize how terrible most series dialogue is.
Feel better Mike!