“Girls” is a satirical look at millennials’ struggle to become adults in a world where the traditional markers of adulthood-career, marriage, parenthood-seem way out of reach. In Season 2, when Marnie is told that “the career you wanted no longer exists today,” this encapsulates a typical millennial experience. Millennials were assured by our parents that being a good kid and going to school would result in a career and financial stability. Then, the rug was pulled out from under us, and we’re still struggling to find our way forward. “Girls” is about the realization that Adulthood is not a goal. Adulthood is a constant struggle, where you make the rules as you go along.
@@ginao6810 That is a good point. For me the issue is that she show doesn't really give me insight into anything. What did you think of the show? Did you get anything from watching it? (I am genuinly asking and curious)
Shoshanna was slept on the whole series. She never stopped spitting hard facts at the other girls and despite her quirks she was the most down to earth and has a realistic character arc.
The episode with Shoshanna in Japan is seriously such a great tv episode, I can't stop thinking about it. She was truly the best of them and was terribly neglected as a character, especially in the last season. Such a shame
One important aspect of the show and the main character people always seem to ignore are mental health issues. Everybody focuses on unlikeability, privilege, entitlement, whiteness...etc but a driving narrative of the series is that many of the characters had severe mental health issues. Hannah had a myriad of them but most prominently OCD and bipolar, Shoshana had severe anxiety, Ray suffered from depression and alcoholism, Jessa was an addict. I think the show reads differently if you are in their age group and have dealt with mental health issues yourself. I never shoved a Q-tip in my ear until I ruptured my eardrum but I did spend nights awake crying until 4:00 am because I was worried I left the lights on downstairs despite having checked dozens of times. The way things like that effect your ability to function and maintain healthy relationships is something I hadn't seen on TV before. It doesn't excuse Hannah's behavior but it does explain it in a way people ignore when criticizing the show.
@@assanin2953 her whole character the first few seasons is just about her always wanting to keep up appearances and fitting in and following trends. She always seems nervous and agitated. They did give her growth and when she goes to Japan she does seem to have made a lot of progress. But at the root of it she pretty clearly has anxiety issues.
I’m not a fan of Lena Dunham and I’m not a fan of Girls. However I do agree that a lot of the critics leveled against the show have to do with the fact that it’s a show about unlikeable women by women. I want to see more unlikeable female characters in the media. Currently we let unlikeable men off the hook for the same vile behaviour that we hold women accountable for. There is so much outrage when a women does the same horrible behaviour as men. Why is it ok for men to get away with that shit but not women? It’s horrible no matter who does it and everyone should be held accountable.
Veep was a comedy starring an unlikeable woman surrounded by (largely) unlikeable people, but it worked because of the witty dialogue and because the characters would find themselves in ridiculous situations by their own hand, t he tone of the show lent itself to the farce, and it was interesting seeing how characters responded to situations. Girls took itself very seriously and the situations facing the characters never came across as all that comical, and there just never seemed to be any stakes for the characters. But I think the show's biggest problem is that it was never quite clear whether it was satirising the characters or if it was on their side.
Dream Dream Serene we should have unlikable women depicted in media. But this was just trash writing that strayed too much from it’s goals. The men were better written
I never understand the criticism of shows like this, like "there are only self absorbed narcissistic white characters". Well... yeah, its a show ABOUT self absorbed narcissistic white people, and you should criticise it on how it tackles whatever subject it pretends to depitcts. Why do critics and people expect that every show tackle every subject at once when they dont like the subject that it acctualy tackles?
Maybe it should have been called Narc Girls then. I came in watching it with the full expectation it's about friends in the city who struggle but get through it and not girls who sabotage one another through toxic friendships.
hahahaha I don't like this show, but this is a great point. I get annoyed when people are like "I hate this character" and it's like yeah you're supposed to hate them
Exactly. I also don’t understand why everyone always has to point out that white people and white characters are white. There are plenty of white people who have absolutely horrific shitty ass lives even compared to some black people. These characters ARE self absorbed and narcissistic but they aren’t self absorbed and narcissistic because they are WHITE. I’ve met plenty of self absorbed and narcissistic people of all races and sometimes they justify it by stating that at least they aren’t white! It’s fucking ridiculous.
It was flawed, but it was very original when it came out. When I first watched an episode of Girls I was captivated, b/c I had never seen anything like it. It's easy as culture and art progress to look back and cringe at what was made before certain progressions, but when you look at it through the lens of the time it came out - it was compelling and important. There are shows and movies now that we all love, that 10 years from now we will see all kinds of offensive and narrow-minded threads in. The. point is to keep evolving and not take a shit on everything that was done before the evolution.
I can ride with this. I wrote some garbled up mess down thread, but I think your statement captures the feelings brilliantly. Perhaps no matter how out of touch and priviledge the show was, one could still relate to the characters on some level. There is a shared mourning as Millenials.
I thought that show seemed to like deconstructing a lot of other TV formulas and TV show morals of its time. The characters often try to "follow their dreams" or to live in New York, but they slowly learn the hard way that their life is not like most other TV shows from the 2000s or 2010s.
wait a minute are we supposed to hate the characters because they are flawed? I never hated them, they just seemed honest. Maybe the world is not ready yet for women that take a long time to find themselves. Women in tv before girls were supposed to grew up and be responsible mothers or career women, while men could be childish in movies and get away with that. Finally we got some real characters with flaws.
I'd say that was even the best part of the show, the way they portrayed women as normal people with mixed feelings about alot of things, sometimes even not being on the right side if things but working your way to getting to right place, friendships drifting away, cutting off toxic people, the resentments that creep up as we age... It was dope, obviously it has its many shortcomings but she really did something here
Does anyone think the show should be called "Seinfeld for Girls"? I thought the show was like a spiritual successor to Seinfeld because it seems like the Seinfeld characters were also intentionally made to be unlikeable so you can laugh when bad things happen to them.
Sorry, I have to disagree. The problem wasn't that they were unlikeable. As other people have pointed out, Julia Louise-Dreyfus's character on VEEP is unlikeable, Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character is unlikeable in Fleabag, Edie Falco in Nurse Jackie. Hell, even Sansa Stark on Game of Thrones. But those were all much more interesting characters than any of the titular "Girls." I'm not saying the show didn't have its moments, but having these women be unlikeable isn't enough to rest on for several seasons. There was something about those other characters that made us root for them anyway. With Girls, they were often whining and complaining about things that were just not that big a deal or that everyone in the world deals with. There were occasionally bit characters who would point that out, but they never had any effect on the main characters. They would hear it and dismiss it immediately. I watched every season and there were compelling moments and a good overall cast, but ultimately, with the characters having very little character growth at all, I felt like I'd wasted my time.
i honestly always thought it was supposed to be satirical, rather than a genuine attempt to be accurate. in that way, i found this show endlessly funny and understood why people liked it so much. that being said, i do understand the criticism of the show.
The characters don't truly care about each other in most other shows either. The main characters are toxic to each other on Friends, The Big Bang Theory, Seinfeld, How I met Your Mother, and so many other shows I haven't seen. Most TV/movie romances are pretty toxic too.
I will never not be annoyed that Marnie and Hannah are hated for being selfish, narcissistic, and expecting success while Don Draper and Walter White have the same defining traits and are worshipped as heroes.
Are they? I've seen them praised as being deep, complex characters but not for being good people. But I guess there are parts of the internet that thinks of the joker as a role model, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
@@misters1r900 I think it's the justification for selfish or immature male characters. They are so good in what they are doing. For Walter White it's ok to scream at his wife and kill countless of people that where more or less innocent but due to his "Genius" it's ok. Same with Don Draper, he abandons his children, fucks around half of New York has multiple breakdowns because he stole an identity, but as he is good in his job and charming it does not matter. It's a trope that is just to common for the real World, as many guys take the approach of "I can be shitty if I am good at my job", while maybe beeing slightly above mediocre and standing themselves in the way by beeing a dick to everyone that could help them become better. You are not Dr. HOUSE if you are a dick to your coworkers nobody wants to work with you, and you are easier to fire and a hard nö in a future hiring process.
FirstFallSnow I should have specified Draper and White are worshipped as “anti-heroes”; that was the buzz word at the time, right? The point being they are worshipped as complex characters with strengths and faults. They are worshipped in spite of being bad people. The way people hated Skylar White kinda feeds into this. She wanted Walt to stop making meth, she wanted to protect her children, she tried to hold Walt accountable for his shit. And the public hated her to the point that Anna Gunn received death threats. While Walt, and Bryan Cranston, was lauded like a bloody rock star. Walter White killed people and mass produced drug that ruins lives = anti hero of our times. Marnie Michaels was judgemental of her friends and wanted to be a singer = worst person on television*. I’m not saying the show is without its faults, but there is some deeply misogynistic shit that weaves it’s way through the discourse. *There was some article written years ago criticising Girls that had a whole section about why Marnie was the worst human on tv, represented the most appalling characteristics of our times. Something to that hyperbolic affect - it was 6 years ago, idk.
Don Draper and Walter White had a character arc. They had to confront their flaws as they progressed and found a resolution for them. Girls characters had no character arc
Because, smartass, fiction is not reality. Nor is it meant to be reality. No one sits to listen to a fucking story so it can have no satisfying ending -_-
Bojach had an ending like this, it tied some of the issues characters had, but made it clear that theyre gonna have to work on themselves. They really made it sure youll get that these characters wont have a happy ending, since there is always tomorrow after the end.
Raul , I think she meant that shiny perfect bow endings can influence real life perceptions that we’re supposed to have everything figured out at one point in our lives. There is plenty of fiction that is missing a happy outcome
@@paloma4444 lol, how was I being a smartass? Some people enjoy movies or TV shows with open ended endings and I'm one of those people. I have nothing against people that prefer resolution.
I feel the same way, i love things with open endings because it not only is more interesting and down to earth this way but also doesn't give, what i think is, a toxic impression of how life is meant to be. The only ending in life is death, and expecting a happy ending like in a movie out of life has affected me personally in negative ways without me even realizing. So it's very refreshing when a show doesn't tie up everything neatly.
I don't care what anyone says about this show! I am a brown intersectional feminist living in India and I LOVE this show and Lena Dunham's writing, acting, strength and outspokenness. I feel that most of the backlash this show received (some of it is justified) is because the women didn't co-opt the idealized versions of femininity and it bugged people to see three dimensional (and yes, narcissistic, hateful but insightful) women on screen being confident and not afraid of asking for things (even though as viewers we may feel that they don't deserve those things). This show taps into the trials and frustrations of 20's and is at many times self aware of the content it puts out into the world. Some episodes were incredibly beautiful. I love this show and I am so glad I became aware of it and watched it
Vanshika Agarwal people also had a problem with the show not having the same multi dimensional structure for women of color characters they were all in one note caricature stereotypes as if women of color can’t be complex and compelling
@@Kevin-rg3yc I understand and respect your point. If you read my comment, you'll see that I do state that some of the backlash is justified and even Dunham herself admitted that show is in many respects a product of privilege and disregards many aspects. But I have a few questions- is representation purely in the form of tokenism okay, aren't emotions universally experienced in a similar manner and should be judged on an intrinsic level as opposed to superficial one, is it necessary for every creative work to challenge all world notions and not the few that the creators prioritize based on their lived experiences? Again, I am not an advocate for artists not being made accountable for content that they put out but sometimes multiplicity of discourses takes prominence away from real issues.
@@celondelon Agree -- however IMO the best episodes WERE written by her (Lena) and directed by Richard Shepard, Jenni Konner's husband. Those episodes felt like brilliant short stories to me. I wish the same effort was put into EVERY episode. The other episodes felt so disjointed, I personally never really felt like I got to know Shoshanna or Jessa etc., I got to know them as caricatures... I never felt personally invested. That's because they would MAYBE get one episode a season focused on their lives, but never in the same way that Hannah's character got an episode focused on her.
Vanshika Agarwal i think no one asked for tokenism they just asked to not present yourself like you’re a voice of a generation but only focusing on one demographic, can’t champion yourself as for all women but focus on the ones from a historical perspective are always represented. They asked that if you are gonna showcase diverse personalities don’t use the same one dimensional stereotypes and pushing them to the side, in fact that itself is basically what tokenism is and that’s exactly what lena did
I'm a black Afro-Caribbean man and I love this show. I've rewatched it at least once, and some episodes multiple times. It's not perfect but was revolutionary in its own way, and had to face a burden of being all things to all people, which it could not have possibly been, as it's about a very specific group of people. However, despite how different these girls are from me, and the fact I'm older than they are, I related a lot to what they were going through, on occasion. When it started I too was still trying to find my way in life and off having adventures far away from home, while trying to maintain relationships with old and new friends. For me the claims that their experiences weren't universal meant those saying so simply lacked imagination. Also, Girls remained funny, and weird, and formally interesting. It shaped my understanding of the 30 minute "dramedy" and revolutionized the form. It was, and remains, a special show to me.
Sir your comment needs more likes! I was older than the characters when the show came out and it very much reminded me of being that age. I think the show was really sharp and had a wisdom that belied the age of its creator
Girls is a genius series, and Lena did an amazing job. If she was a man, this series would be worldwide applauded and praised as an amazing critique and analysis for today's generation society. Lena is so good at acting that people started thinking that Hannah was her. And yes I hated all the characters and I thought it was annoying and pointless at first. But years later I still reflect on things that I saw on the series. You can learn a lot about yourself watching it.
This is not common sense, this is only an opinion. I’m Brazilian and here soap operas are a huge thing, here when the actor is confused by the character it means nacional success
I HATE people that HATE other people. I get a lot of HATE comments on my amazing videos and I HATE it. Please don't spread HATE. Do I have to HATE you too, dear rp
It wasn't because Lena Dunham was playing herself and there were plenty of moments of the characters feeling sorry for themselves in a non mocking way. An actual satire might have been a good show.
@@fehzorz i mean i think she knows these things about herself. if i were to write an autobiografical sitcom i too would play up my worst qualities for comedic, or cringy effect. not saying the show was better than average, but ngl i had fun watching it
If "Sex and the City" was the epitome of the American Dream, "Girls" devastated it. Everybody believed he could "make it", but only who could adjust to an average life found some degree of happiness. Ultimately, "Girls" is about dissatisfaction, a dissatisfaction you are not supposed to let go of because it fuels your ambitions. Other people are unimportant, except for being used for one's "goals". A depressing take on life. It reminded me much of my adolescence in a place I utterly hated and was incredibly happy to leave behind. Thank you for the video. :-)
What always confused me about this show is that a lot of people were saying it was a good depiction of female friendship, I could never relate to that, I cut off toxic friendships from my life before my 20s
But they exist. Even if we don't like them, even if we cut those people off of our lives, they exist. I've also written myself out from those circles, but I know they exist and as damaging as they are, some people stay in said friendships. One of my very dear friends has had a circle of friends like that for a little over a decade (I'm obviously an outsider to their circle bc I refuse to engage in toxic behaviours), and I keep telling her that that's not a real friendship, but to her and them, it is. It's how they work and its fine. and I understand that, that that's their friendship, as twisted as it is.
More an accurate depiction than a ‘good’ depiction, because it is pretty realistic to what a lot of female friendships that come and go are like, whether it’s relatable to you or not. And that depiction might be important to people who aren’t you.
It just seemed very middle or high school to me, these are grown women in their mid to late 20s, I could never understand why they're putting up with this shit
@@hambone.fakenamington my opinion is based on my experience, like everyone I imagine. I didn't say the show shouldn't exist, if people enjoy it good for them. I guess having them realize at the end that they're not really friends is a good thing
Really wish a show would finally come down on someone/a couple for choosing to have a kid when they clearly are in a bad situation to. Literally just replace baby with high end sports care in any financial decision, replace baby with quitting work in any career decision, replace baby with Xanax and Ritlin when it comes to emotional and mental stability decisions and suddenly it doesn't seem like such a good idea! Now do all three at once. Just because it is the creation of life does not excuse poor decisions.
Agreed. It’s actually really bothersome to me that Lena’s character was using a baby as an excuse or reason to finally grow up. That’s gross: one should be mature and grown up enough before bringing a life into the world. I’m glad they did an episode showing how terrible of a decision it turned out to be and how having a baby as a single woman is not a magical fairytale ending. Maybe that will encourage young women not to rush into parenthood before they’re ready.
I hate that. Or when a female character on a series is clearly not interested in having children the entire run of a show and then in end the writers have her ~finally~ decide she wants children to show her "growth". Not everyone wants children. Its not a character defect. Its not a sign of selfishness or immaturity that must be overcome. Its a valid life choice.
I loved the series. I loved how unlikable and contradictory they were even though I couldn't relate to them, because, who would? It was great writing, every single character was in character and let me experience the universal in their very well depicted specificity.
I can relate to them and I'm a xer. I know people like them. Most people contradictory weirdos stumbling through life. We just try to hide it, but most people are self absorbed.
@@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 Absolutely, I sometimes feel like people hate them cause they subconciously know they are or were like this at some point of their life. But everyone wants to believe we're these virtuous deep beings that are above it.
What never made sense was that she got a job as a professor without a masters degree or a PhD. In real life, the best you could do without those is be a part-time adjunct professor at a community college if you’re lucky.
@@nategrahamjr3692 She went to Iowa but she did really poorly, got in arguments with the other students, and dropped out quickly without getting any degrees.
I would love to see more videos about Girls like this one. The male characters were just as terrible but somehow more likeable (like remember when Adam sexually assaulted his girlfriend). Charlie and Elijah had their moments. And then of course there was Desi... Ray was the only reasonable one.
Ray was the best! I’m currently rewatching Girls (first time was as a teenager), and Ray is definitely my favourite character now. But at the same time, I think Characters are allowed to be problematic and unlovable, a show of only Rays would be boring. I feel like people are way less tolerant when it comes to female characters.
J H How is he a creep? I’m done rewatching season 1-3, so now I’m scared what’s about to come. But I totally agree that people tolerate way more when it comes to male characters!
@J H Take what I said with a grain of salt because it's been so long since I watched. I don't remember Ray being a creep but people definitely tolerate a lot more from.male characters for sure.
I feel like that whole "shitty male characters are somehow more tolerable than shitty female charcters" is rooted in subconscious sexism. We have been bombarded with male characters of many many different types and have been conditioned to believe that men can be as horrible as possible but that somehow makes them more "raw, mysterious, adventurous, and a tortured soul" we're conditioned to take men as they are, while women are made to feel like perfect pieces of scotch tape to fix men and their problems, and be everyones emotion punching bag. Ok rant over lol
GIRLS will always be one of my favorite shows. Years later, they were still stuck in that middle ground of girlhood and womanhood, with the exception of Shosh. She grew into a badass but it was still hard to hear her be so honest about it. I never truly *liked* Hannah but I cried for her when she and Adam broke up and when she found out him and Jessa were together even though I liked them as a couple, I cried when she and Adam realized they had nothing left in common, I cried when she did her last tour of New York and I cried even harder when they all “broke up” in the bathroom despite how narcissistic she was. It was like watching my own friendships end. Shoshanna was right but I wanted their friendships to last at the same time. That clip at the party of them celebrating their night apart broke my heart and Hannah, of course, annoyed me so much for pushing Marnie away but it had to be done. I’d like to think she grew up and stuck with her job and started loving motherhood and independence and that Marnie and Jessa found some sort of happiness as well. They had all grown apart and it’s a sad reality about many friendships. It was a groundbreaking show in many ways that was about narcissistic, privileged people and I loved it.
To me, the problem wasn't that the characters were mostly unlikeable. In fact, I usually gravitate towards intentionally unlikeable characters, especially when they're female, because I love a flawed character whose job isn't to model good behavior; Fleabag and Rebecca from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are two of my favorite TV characters of recent years, and they're both deeply flawed and sometimes even irritating. The problem with Hannah was that there wasn't really anything compelling about her, and she never really evolved as a character, so she ended up being just a platter of detestable qualities without an interesting story attached to her. I think all the other characters were much more interesting than her, because at least they went through some character development during the series. I made it through the whole series only because of them, which made the heavily Hannah-centric final season such an aggravating watch. I also felt like Girls as a the show didn't really have anything interesting to say beyond pointing out certain struggles certain, very privileged and very white millennials face, which is why it annoyed me how it presented itself as a reflection of an entire generation.
Ah, I relate. Although I could never find a taste for Rebecca (in Season 4 I was rooting for her to get better though!), I did absolutely LOVE Nathaniel. Despicable guy, where even the characters said “Why should we root for someone who is male, straight and white?” but he evolves. Improvement is always an option, however I dislike shows that intentionally keep characters the same. I need growth!
i mean It’s Always Sunny is about narcissistic people who never change and theres only one character development moment in the 14+ seasons its been running. a show doesnt have to have character development
Gina Coni this might seem like a stupid question but-how funny was “Girls”? Irredeemable assholes who never learn their lesson works for IASIP and Seinfeld because they’re funny to watch. 🤔
I don’t think people understand that the characters are INTENDED to be unlikeable... they represent all the weird fukn people you meet in your life, and the awkward often bad-vibe situations you find yourself in... these characters are more like me and my friends than any other show I’ve watched.
They are like the Seinfeld characters that way. I thought that by making the characters intentionally unlikeable, you, the audience, can feel superior to them and laugh when bad things happen to them.
And the back-handed replies were hilarious... Girls is what happens to all of us and if society hates ot so much it just goes to show the lengths we really hate ourselves for being human .
@@embeetoast2211 The point is that she's a good writer, even those don't like her as a person (like myself) can acknowledge that she writes pretty well. I thought that was obvious.
I wanted to like it so badly, and I loved many of the major themes, but I just couldn’t get past season 1. I don’t need “likability” or relatability, some of my favorite show characters I truly loathe, like House - but I do need depth. I couldn’t accept that so many 20-somethings were so shallow and oblivious... the characters had robust vocabularies, malnourished souls and minds.
Simone Chèrie thank you. I am so with you on this. However I think this show lacked relatability. That’s why this show also felt out of touch. I could not relate to Lena character nor found her sexual escapades believe.
Simone Chèrie thank you. I am so with you on this. However I think this show lacked relatability. That’s why this show also felt out of touch. I could not relate to Lena character nor found her sexual escapades believe.
I actually loved this show. When I watched it after it was already done, I was about the same age as the characters. As a girl in nyc, some of their experiences were sooo spot on, much like how I felt watching SATC. I wasn’t aware of all the criticisms.. yes the “it’s very white” one, but you know what? That is VERY accurate. You would be surprised how segregated NYC is.. the fact is, white people largely only hang out with other white people, blacks with blacks, Latinos with Latinos.. I don’t want to hear anyone replying “well not all I have a best friend who is xxxxx” I didn’t say ALL. I’ve lived most of my life in NYC, and after all these years I can’t say I’ve had a single, close friend who is white. Not one!! There where a few Europeans (who would go back home after a few months), that’s it! Even working in retail in 34th st.. we had maybe TWO white coworkers.. and of course the GM was white 🙄 never had white folks try to befriend me in college either! her show is ACCURATE. Maybe the society and system needs more criticism than the show it’s based on. I don’t think making a show about white people inherently wrong, the problem is when there is a lack of shows for everyone else. That story had a specific narrative that needed to be told.. there are many other types of shows with opportunities to include non-whites... this wasn’t it.
I had no problem with them being unlikeable that was one of the shows best features the problem is that there was no character arc, set-up or pay-off. The show was endlessly Groundhog Day.
I remember the show as being really good at first. By the third season I was out and not paying attention any more until this video popped up for me. Not only was there no character arc or payoff, but a lot of things that made the show funny either got old, or were replaced with really weird and bizarre storylines and incidents that made the show kind of repulsive. Not bizarre in a way that challenges you to rethink things, but just alienating.
Agreed ! One thing that bugged me was the introduction of interesting characters who would disappear after one or two episodes like Mimi. Whereas the most annoying would stick around ( Desi, Adam’s sister, Fran who was just awful all along). It was just set-up and set-up and no payoff. Not that character development is always needed but it just felt like a lot of episodes would introduce something seemingly important just to never adress it a gain.
Hannah lived in a "lousy" apartment? lol...in real life rent for that place would be close to 3,000 dollars. That's what I find the most frustrating about this show...the way they portrayed "struggling" as living in pretty much comfort.
I loved this show! Great acting, great writing, great characters and, to be honest, Carrie Bradshow is far more self-centred and narcissistic than Hannah Horvath: at least, Hannah is 20-something, Carrie is 30-something, almost 40 in the last season, and she is still clueless, selfish, petty and childish. Plus, those who didn't understand that the character of Hannah is a satire of millennials, simply didn't get the whole point of the show.
I completely agree with this! When I first watched Sex and the City in my early 20’s I could only dream of having a life like Carrie Bradshaw’s and I thought her relationship with Mr.Big was passionate and riveting when in reality it’s extremely toxic. I thought that Carrie Bradshaw was a multidimensional, talented, strong woman ( despite her flaws) with loving friendships. Watching it now, it’s like I’m seeing it through a completely different lens. Carrie Bradshaw is one of the most annoying, self centered, needy, codependent, narcissistic woman depicted on television that takes everything and everyone in her life for granted. Like you said, at least Hannah was in her early 20’s and her selfishness was much more age appropriate. I didn’t even think Hannah was as narcissistic and bad of a person as everyone made her out to be. Yes, she made some terrible choices and did some cringe worthy things but haven’t we all in our 20’s?
I'm in Russia, not entitled, just have university degree (in Russia the most of ppl have it), live in a big city, and I see much resemblance to life depicted in the show. I had this sense of recognition and my friends had even though we are from another culture, so I think the show is genius.
Oh no way. In Sex and the City the women voiced what they wanted from the beginning. In Girls these girls played their partners, their friends and themselves. They had toxic self destructive behavior. I am a millennial myself but Girls showed me exactly how NOT to be.
Okay I don’t feel so bad about the time I binged 4 seasons of this anymore lol. I liked this show. BECAUSE the characters were so flawed. I hate one-dimensional characters. I liked that they had problems and I liked that so many of their problems were self-created.
I recently watched the whole series, at the age of 23, so my point of view is that of a "young adult" who can still relate to the show in a world that is somehow very similar and at the same timethe result of the years depicted through it. I think people didn't like to recognize their own sh*tty behaviours in those of the characters. I also hated many of the things they did but at the same time instantly recognized them as real. This made me accept and make some critical thinking about it in general and in introspective ways. I would also go as far as to say that Girls /actually/ taught me something about me and other people, allowing me to see shade of greys as human. Of course I always hope that everyone can choose to act at their best, but also that there is space to improvement because we are not perfect. None of us. P.S. I can't believe there are really people who didn't understand the self-critical, self-ironic jokes... Come on.
Ironically, this show did end up being a voice of a generation. The entitled too-big-to-fail narcissistic assumptions of up-and-coming Americans in the 2000's and 2010's are dead upon the current new decade with hard times and humble pie now ahead. 'Girls' was a stylish snapshot of that window of time. I'm glad Dunham did it.
@@cameroncorp Unless you think a college student is a child, they didn't grow up during the recession. The recession impacted their lifestyle but not their worldview. Don't be dense, please.
@@QuietlyCurious no a collage student is around 20 right? Follow so far? So they would have been 7 when the great recession began. Now I don't know about you but I don't think you have stopped growing up by the age of 7. If your talking about collage students at the time the show began, they would have been in their early teens, so unless your talking about the "entitled too big too fail narcissistic assumptions" of literal children who would be too young to be thinking about their economic futures, then yeah the great recession would have definitely affected their expectations.
Also acting like that generation needed to struggle to find economic stability during a recession caused by generations before them to give them "humble pie" for expecting to be successful as a literal child with no actual idea about their economic future, while ignoring the varying economic backgrounds that will have affected people's expectations, is just weird and dumb. Just cause something sounds profound doesn't stop it from being bullshit, just stop Lol
@@cameroncorp You're weird and dumb. You didn't understand my original comment, and you didn't watch the show. Or if you did, you didn't watch closely. And of course each character has a unique individual econ background. My comment didn't negate that, sheesh.
I think Girls just exaggerated features of its characters to reflect millenial's fears about themselves. You can’t assault insecure self-absorbed overhinker, because he or she already said everything you can imagine to him/herself. Dunham is super self-aware. Girls just took us or situations we find ourselves in and brought them to extreme points so we could make fun of how stupid, selfish, lazy and childish we are and still how high our expectations could be. It actually helped me and my girls to relive some shit, feel less lonely and move on. We loved the show.
I always thought it was written with too much ego, like Hannah was who Lena Dunham saw herself in her head. It just never stopped being "iM nOt LiKe OtHeR gIrLs, I'm SoOoO dEeP" while everyone's characters were very flat. Very tone deaf to not only the solutions right in front of them, but tone deaf to their own self destructive patterns.
I think that about a lot of shows. Like the writer thinks they're so smart but really they're just meh. I bet it's hard to write a character you play as a 3 dimensional person.
It's always funny but judging by the number of shows I saw based in NYC, including this one, I thought NYC was like 95% white Americans. To my shock when I looked it up and realized NYC was 57% non white, including 25% black. Oh Lena, sigh
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The point is, we usually get Manhattan, or worse, Upper East Side, and label it as the whole NYC. But NYC is also Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island. But the media makes us believe that the extremely white and wealthy Manhattan is all NYC is about.
@ So true. I mean, there are SO many immigrant communities, so many cultures and kinds of foods combing in one massive city. One would think showing all the sides of New York would actually make for a more interesting setting, and even better story opportunities, since you can show different peoples and how they live. But nope
Matheus G. S. This is similar to the tv show cold case. I rewatched it from beginning to end and noticed that the show was overwhelmingly white, despite Philadelphia having the largest black community in the largest cities. I also noticed that they tended to focus on certain areas of the city on the show (Chestnut Hill and Kensington) and the episodes featuring black characters usually focused on race or were in one neighborhood (Badlands). This representation is such an inaccurate view of the city and it’s really disheartening.
It's strange to me how so many people missed the parody and irony in this show. If you are looking for uncomplicated cliche characters, it's not for you. If you're looking for a show that confronts you with seeing the unpopular sides of yourself, it's brilliant.
A video on endings in general, how they can be justly hated (How I Met Your Mother), debatably misunderstood (Seinfeld, Quantum Leap) or beloved (Cheers, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Newhart). All 3 tropes.
It's A STORY, Hannah is what she is, she didn't have to be likable or redeemed. I enjoyed almost all of it back then, and it really has hit close to home, because my best friend was also dating my ex who I broke up with and is now married to him. She stopped talking to me when they got together and we never made it up. It was so sad to see it on the show.
@@toomuchinformation Nope, not joking. There's a whole episode of her meeting Riz and sleeping with him, then finding out shortly after that she's pregnant.
I would love a deeper insight into why Joan and Toni stayed friends for as long as they did. I have my own opinions but I like the way The Take delves into things
I’ve been binge watching this show since it came on Netflix! As a gen Z kid, it’s eye opening to see the depictions of black women that my mother consumed as a young adult, and how it manifests even now in her identities and parenting. I would love for the take to analyze it!!
Elizabeth N Joan was a light skinned and mixed woman who wasn’t the pretty one, as she would have expected. Toni was the dark skinned woman who was the pretty one and understood that she’d have to be feminine to get the same amount of respect and desire from men that the typical mixed woman would. However, Joan was successful in her career and had a house so she had that going for her. This allowed her to swallow the jealously she had for Toni and maintain the friendship. So it makes sense that the friendship ends when Joan finically gets to be the “it girl.” She finally gets the be the main girl and rubs it in her friends’ faces. The rest forgive her but Toni moved on finally able to be her own woman.
I come from a developing country in Asia so watching this was such an infuriating experience. I couldn’t get past an episode without rolling my eyes. Some of the things they says which reeked of narcissism left me aghast, enraged and exhausted. Again, I have to remind you of where I am coming from. Poor country, lots of people struggling and fighting over limited opportunities. Where you can’t afford to just think about yourself when you have siblings to put through school with your meager convenience store salary.
same! I never watched the show, so maybe it's unfair, but coming from a developing country as well, I'm nothing but grateful for having had the chance of studying a career and being independent, I don't get why the more privileged people get, the more unhappy (specially Americans)
@@lovechildmag This is definitely oversimplified but I think this has to do something with Maslow's hierarchy, when you don't have to worry about food or having a roof over your head, live in a place that's safe for everyone and mostly not corrupt, then you focus on other needs of human being that are more messy such as having a "purpose" in life, "self-fulfillment", living your "dreams", having "no regrets" etc. Obscure concepts that rule the western world and that many companies take advantage of and push/market to us to make billions of dollars out of our suffering lol... At least that's my theory. The West is also an individual society and not a collective society.
Mich Z Good analysis! But regardless of them reaching the pinnacle of Maslow’s hierarchy, one thing I’ve haven’t seen them practice is gratefulness. Religion (Christian, Buddhist, etc.) encourages that. Oprah built an empire on peddling gratitude journals. These characters just whine and take and whine some more. And it seems this video essay like many others who in their own way celebrate Girls tolerate this petulant and entitled behavior. I know this series is not a full representation of American women in their twenties but wow, it really changed my impression of them for the worst if such “Girls” really do exist.
Anna Borbely Good point! HBO’s own “reality TV show” hahah. But unlike reality TV which is junkfood, Girls has been treated like a think piece by critics, etc. This video essay is proof of that. And for it to go on multiple seasons and Lena Dunham to be validated for her work shows this society doesn’t treat Girls like the Kardashians.
I fell into watching the last season again recently, and it stands up - not least because it's been a while since a 'what has Lena Dunham said NOW?' moment. It takes real guts to flesh out characters who can be seriously unlikeable (yes even Shosh, who despite her insights is also an appalling snob) and show their finer, vulnerable and sweet aspects, too. Yay to honest & not neat endings (except for Elijah, who so needed a win); yay to Loreen dishing out some hard truths. Yay/eek for Hannah starting to face up to what's required of her as a parent, beyond the pregnancy being an 'out' from putting in the work of actually fulfilling her potential or facing up to there being no substance behind it. No, there's no getting away from the privilege and entitlement: that also feels core to what the lived experience would be for these regularly highly unpleasant characters. As studies of particular people at an age and place in time, it's a smartly, sharply and honestly observed piece of work IMHO.
I remember people referring to this show as "The voice of our generation". This was a great show about 20 something white women coming of age that I binged but saying this was the voice of an entire generation is a stretch. Good show but outside of cis white woman who's voice was this?
@@djervalevy9784 It means your gender identity matches what you were assigned at birth. If you identify as a man and were assigned as male at birth you would be a cis man.
It's what they say: good art generates lots of emotions, not always or only good ones, in the spectator. It was great fun liking and disliking each one of the characters, like real people. Great take on a wonderful show.
Okay so I just finished watching the show for the first time as a 25-year old man living in SF - but I'm from the northeast originally. I think what drew me to the show in its inception and first few episodes was the realistic view it gave of the messy, yet whimsical, yet horrifying view of the world that a young person may have - especially in today's day and age as we all suffer under the early stages of late capitalism. But what made me continue to sour on the show and ultimately hit the level of "hate watch" was the input that Lena Dunham gave after the episodes after the credits rolled. There were hints of self-awareness and a willingness to convey that these characters weren't to be admired, but she ultimately still identified with the characters and defended their horrific actions. One moment in particular that stands out is late in season 5, I believe, when Hannah once again finds herself in the principals office for being an immature, short-sighted teacher. When the principal - HER BOSS - threatens to fire her, Hannah reveals her genitalia to get out of the predicament. On its own, this is quite bad and immature, but I was willing to let it go because it's not real and the aforementioned principal seemed to "enjoy" the gesture. However, in the interview with Lena Dunham after the episode she says something to the affect of "Hannah has the right to show her genitalia to whoever she wants." Which truthfully horrified me as a viewer. No, Lena, she doesn't. No one has the "right" to show their genitalia in the workplace to their office superior in a non-consensual manner. It's inappropriate and downright sexual assault in a slightly different context. Imagine if the rolls were reversed by gender, would she have said that? Never. It really stunned me. I couldn't quite believe that she said that and nearly defended the action. It was instances like that where I started to see the cracks in the premise and writing. But perhaps I have to give kudos to the actors for portraying such awful characters.
Hmm another one to add to the list of shows and movies I had no idea people “hated”. I thought Girls was a pretty good show-up until the last season. I felt like all the characters on that show went from a steady downward spiral to just plummeting face front at full speed on the last season.
I think people hate the show so much because they do not understand that it is meant to portray imperfect, hateable people. It is a joke, a sarcastic view on millenials. How can people not see that? And the finale is genius. All these fairy tale endings where all problems suddenly disappear and everyone gets what they have been aiming for + all friendshift remain perfect inspite of fundamental character changes are a big load of bs. Girls is more realistic. If you don't like that, go back to your feel-good series but do not diss the show just because you do not understand it.
I think many people dislike it because it's impossible to tell how self-aware the creators are when it comes to writing the characters. For me, there was always a little bubble of unease I used to sit in whenever I watched Girls - does Dunham realise just how morally screwed up their behaviour is? I kinda get the sense that she sometimes thinks horrific behaviour is actually quirky and/or endearing, and the show sometimes reflects that. I still enjoyed watching a few seasons and the writing is generally quite fresh and inventive, but the underlying feeling of queasiness never left me. I don't need all my shows to be feel-good, but I do need them to show me some moral consistency over time.
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Girls was a great show, yes it had a lot challenges with representation however it was so raw showing how flawed we are especially in our 20s, being self absorbed, realizing you actually don't know alot of things and attempting to make a life for yourself separate from the ideal sold to you as a child, it was a perfect depiction of how the coming of age journey is messy, I especially loved Marnie's story.
@@yveqeshy If you mean did they get physically older? Yep. Mentally or emotionally? Not so much. Shoshanna probably did have the biggest growth spurt as far as realizing that they should all move on and not be friends anymore--but even she says it's because their dynamic is dysfunctional and boring. 🤷🏽♀️
@@cv8499 I disagree, I think each one of them had their own individual growth Hannah having that tirade with the the pant less teenager in the street to me was her getting to a pint where she realised the role she now has to play both as a mum and a daughter, Shoshanna cutting them all off because they were toxic to her energy was her coming of age story, she needed to find people who did not hold her back, Jess confrontating herself and realizing she wasn't as great a friend to me was the personal growth in her story, for Marnie I felt like her story wasn't completely done, especially considering throughoit the show she wS the one who seemed to get the harshest realities about life dropped on
@@yveqeshy Right, but again, the "revelations" they all had in the last couple of episodes they'd all had before. Several times. When Hannah was teaching at the high school she came across students who she realized were being immature or acting entitled and had those kind of "grow up, kid" convos with them. But then she went right back to being immature and entitled herself. (She goes to get a tongue piercing with one of her students and tries to break up with a guy by jumping out of a car and hiding behind a tree.) It was a mature decision for her to realize her and Adam weren't going to work and she should raise her baby on her own. But then very next episode--WAH! She'd decides taking care of a baby is hard! Who knew? So she's just going to walk away from that responsibility and only go back after she realizes (for the millionth time) that she's being immature. Jess has realized several times that she's a crappy friend, sort of apologized, then went right back to being a crappy friend. At any point could we actually see her BE a better friend after one of these revelations? Nope. I had kind of thought after she helped deliver Adam's sister's baby or after she went to rehab, she was going to realize she actually liked helping people and that would be her character arc, but nope. Jess at the start of the show is more or less Jess at the end of show, except now she has a boyfriend that she sacrificed a friendship for. Shoshanna cutting off the friends was really necessary, but even that had the feel of her play acting at being a grown-up. She was always the one from the start of the show who was obsessed with what women her age are "supposed" to be doing. So her getting a new crowd of friends and getting engaged--to someone the show hadn't even shown her date--felt like more of the same. As for Marnie, same thing. There was a great episode when she spends the day with her ex-boyfriend Charlie and realizes how wrong for each other they are and that she should be alone for a while and figure out who she is on her own. She had also realized in earlier seasons with him that he didn't satisfy her sexually, partially because she didn't ask for what she wanted. Great! Then right after that, she meets that weird artist guy who treats her terribly, has terrible sex with her, and she completely gets off on it. She dates Ray for a minute, who was really sweet to her, but for her he was just someone to occupy her time and that quickly implodes. The harsh reality that her dream job isn't going to be served up to her on a platter gets served to her over and over and over again, and each time she's shocked. So her announcement that she might try law school is just another whatever moment. Judging by every previous story line, you get the feeling she'll go to law school and drop out after the first semester because she's not a lawyer yet.
I liked the epilogue style a lot. You thought there were some resolutions in the “faux finale” but then you’re back to the uneasy state you were in watching the first episode.
I don't know why it got so much hate, I loved it and it had so many parallels with my life - friend groups are messy, you make the same mistakes over and over, life doesn't end up how you think it will - you think you'll get the dream job, house, relationship, stay friends with the same people, so in that sense I think it was a great series!
As someone stuck in a Midwest middle to upper class suburb at 17-19 when I kinda watched this show, I found it incredibly realistic to what the white cis girls who were trying to figure out their shit while maintaining new volatile roomie relationships with their old HS bffs. I was dealing with enough of that in my hometown so I didn’t watch the show too much, but I knew a loooot of girls who watched this show and were basically clones of the characters on it.
Djerva Levy that you identify with the sexual organs you were born with, it’s an alternate to trans so nobody sounds like an asshole when differentiating between the two ends of that spectrum.
@@djervalevy9784 are you talking about the poster? They just state that they were cis nothing mean. Also, just because you didn't think someone said it nice in their post you decided to respond to them with a question angrily??
I’m a filipino gay man and the reason why I love (or sometimes, hate) this show because i relate to the characters so much. It portrays the struggles of being in your 20s so well. Even though I can’t relate to it directly, the context and meaning it represents mirrors, i think, most of the 20 something year olds around the world. It shows the good and mostly bad and dark things about your age and i think that’s why most people hated it. Of course it has flaws but overall i love this show so much
When in came out in 2012 I knew it was not for me. I liked it amd watched many seasons of it but Watching it I never expected to see myself in the characters. It was just a guilty pleasure for some time until i lost interest. But yeah... I'm a black woman in an urban city and I knew this show wasn't made for me and that was okay. It represented someone's life and I knew girls who's life went like this for the most part and that's what made it funny to me.
I liked this show from the beginning, and I still like it. Many of the characters are frustratingly self-absorbed at times, but it was refreshing to see something like that. The writing was really good, and perhaps because they weren't afraid to show the unlikeable aspects of the characters they could really explore some interesting topics, often about bad friendships - and a lot of moments throughout were so relatable. I recently watched Girls a second time and after all these years, I still think it's compelling and the writing is really good - an episode like "American B*tch" is just brilliant. There are so many moments captured in this show, that I haven't seen anywhere else, executed with such precision and subtlety. I think, especially Americans, are used to seeing aspirational (pretty) characters so they were quick to turn on a show like Girls. Girls highlighted, many times, that those goals that used to mark adulthood were out of reach to millennials, not being able to find work after graduation or being expected to work as interns with no pay, living in shared flats not being able to find or afford a place of their own, STILL struggling to find a sense of direction etc. etc. they were so spoiled, you know... Also, it was really in the zeitgeist to hate millennials, so much so that even many millennials were convinced that their generation was the worst thing to ever happen to society. Then Lena published her book that caused a lot of outrage on the internet, and she'd already committed the crime of being 'chubby' and nude on screen, dared to portray a "flawed" girl, and having enjoyed great success through her work. It became mandatory to hate the show and Lena Dunham, I know people who've never seen the show but they know they hate it. I'm still surprised over how much was expected from this show. I hope that in like 5 years or so it gets its redemption and people can look past all the noise and just appreciate it for what it was and what it did. Maybe it has to be another generation that discovers it or something, I don't know...
When they mentioned how Lena Dunham attributed how her show was picked with little up on her end due to white privilege reminded me of the showrunners for Game of Thrones. Exactly how and why they got their jobs. HBO has a problem I see.
It offers a realistic portrayal on life. Characters on Sex and the City were well established in terms of careers and personality, while these individuals were figuring themselves out. As a guy, I had trouble following the show. Couldn't watch any episode due to the pace at which the dialogue was exchanged. This presentation did an amazing job at presenting the program in a simple manner.
Sadly, I don't hate watch this show. I feel represented on these girls, or some aspects of them. I'm in a point of my life very similar to Hannah's when the show starts, and the "Flo" chapter in season 3 really touched me. I don't like the "ugly" aspects and attitudes, but people are not perfect, I'm not perfect. So I like this kind of honesty on media.
Never truly knowing when the show was being self aware - when it was in on the joke and when it really organically that tone deaf is what makes Girls such a well done TV series. Its ambiguous, complex, confusing, hilarious, and the result of the real privilege Lena and the rest of the girls came from. But thats not all Lena, Jenny and Judd are also phenomenal.
I didn’t like the show. I stopped watching halfway through the second season. Not my thing. But yeah, even I thought that “Voice of a Generation” media scrutiny was clickbait bullshit.
I think it'd be cool if you guys should talk about Insecure. It definitely deals more with intersectionality than Girls and I feel the characters are far more likeable if not sympathetic.
I feel like GIrls is one of the few shows in the universe that expose the myth of "growing up". Everything else pretty much tells us, people can grow, change, and become something else (literature to the self-improvement industry). This show tells us people just take on more responsibility, but underneath remain the same person. Idk about you, the only growth I experience is in my knowledge and experience but I am still very much the same person, and any change is temporary. I have seen the same of many of my friends, some of them brilliant career women and men. We tend to equate success with personal growth/change but that is bullshit. Progress is progress. People's ideas, worldviews, and priorities may change but they are still very much the same--behaving similarly, relying on the same coping mechanisms, harboring the same habits, biases, and tendencies despite minor adjustments here and there. It is only in strong social (and other) pressures that people change, but remove those pressures you will see people climb back into themselves. I think one of the reasons people hate this show is how unapologetically it shows this; the characters on the show "know" the truth and we resent them for it because we cannot live that truth for ourselves as openly as we want. Instead, the truth is this unsaid performative thing that everyone pretends is real, so it is strange when others(like GIrls) point it out the sham. (comment made elsewhere by me)
What I hated about the season finale was the fake feminism portrayed by a supposed feminist. Hanna becomes mature because she's a mother!? So pregnancy is the way of becoming a mature women? Not very feminist. Shoshanna had other friends and a successful job but the only focus was her wedding. Jessa gave up studying to be with a man. Marnie had the only ending that was accurate. I wanted to see more about the new life of Shoshanna and I wanted to see Jessa working with trouble young people. That would be full circle. I don't mind Hanna gave up the New York illusion because that's realistic.
I've always held such a deep disdain for characters and real people who have kids in order to fulfill or fix *themselves,* instead of having them because they have something good to offer a child. Hannah is this kind of character. But this kind of person exists, not only on a show you hate watch, but also in real life. That's the kind of show Girls was.
Clara Rogalinski exactly...I should have mentioned Ray too but I didn’t know the actors name. And I agree about Shoshanna.... she was hands down my favorite girl.
I liked this series. I couldn't relate to any character or situation, but it's still fun to watch something even if you don't relate to it and try to understand the characters and their actions. It was well written and shot, the acting felt natural. I'm not a fan of Lena, but I respect and enjoyed this show. But I didn't really like the ending, it just didn't feel like an ending. The last episode felt like the first episode of the new season rather than the finale.
As much as Lena says ppl can't seperate a woman's character from the real woman is interesting to say. I can easily divide character from reality from Fleabag and Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Both these characters are layered like the Girls characters. I think the problem is she brought the controversy INTO reality with her own behaviour. Fleabag and Rachael Bloom aren't like their characters or (for fleabag) have grown out of the character before the show started.
Maybe the people hating on Girls aren't used to seeing deeply flawed women in their entertainment. It's becoming more common though, Fleabag on Netflix is another good example. We're not perfect, often far from it, nor should we be. I think the show is somewhat realistic to life for this demographic - I know many women in their 20's who behave in similar ways to the characters in Girls. In fact, I'm an older Millenial but I can easily see parts of my 20-somethig self in the characters too. However, Hannah's 'happy ending' is not realistic at all in terms of her housing and job just falling into place.
Very well put. The show and Lena herself grew so so much since it started and raised needed questions (partially on purpose and not). Perspectives are narrow and people make mistakes and she's spoken exhaustively about all of the controversies she unleashed, apologized and kept educating herself. Naturally, the show is now a bit outdated plus she was super young and entitled when it started, but being 25 I kinda grew up with it and its complexity and frustrating nature helped me understand and challenge myself, at times even almost as a cautionary tale. Bittersweet and compelling. Great reflection.
I feel like this show was one of the last ones that depicted how life was before technology (completely took over) and now we are all living on our phones with our heads down constantly. The parties and get togethers and even just hanging out with one or two friends didn't include everyone with their eyes only fixed on their phone screens like you see (everywhere) now!!! This is what we've lost and it was literally only a year or less that the changes happened in our society. It's kind of heart breaking!!
I watched the whole show and I liked it. I don’t relate to them and they are very unlikable but is refreshing to watch flawed, narcissistic and annoying women. We’re so used to watch men and accept them with their flaws and childish behavior and I don’t understand why women have to be perfect for us to like them.
I saw two of the girls grow into thoughtful women and two of them age, but not really grow. The lesson hear is that some people grow with age and some don't. I've found that this is true in life. Getting older doesn't always equate to getting better or wiser.
I'm not sure, but I think if they had hired a different actor to play Hannah I might have liked the show more. There were moments that Hannah's selfishness could have been more comedic, but really it just pissed me off. The jokes never fully landed because the acting wasn't good enough to portray the ridiculousness of the situations and it came off as serious statements.
“Girls” is a satirical look at millennials’ struggle to become adults in a world where the traditional markers of adulthood-career, marriage, parenthood-seem way out of reach.
In Season 2, when Marnie is told that “the career you wanted no longer exists today,” this encapsulates a typical millennial experience.
Millennials were assured by our parents that being a good kid and going to school would result in a career and financial stability.
Then, the rug was pulled out from under us, and we’re still struggling to find our way forward.
“Girls” is about the realization that Adulthood is not a goal.
Adulthood is a constant struggle, where you make the rules as you go along.
Exactly this, I think Marnie's story especially exemplified this, this is what made the show so compelling
That is exactly a lot of what the show tackled, over and over again but no one ever talks about it!
I think this as a premis was good. The problem is that the execution is quite empty and the characters feel quite empty too.
T Turing well being an woman in my 20s in the 2010s left me feeling pretty fucking empty most of the time.
@@ginao6810 That is a good point. For me the issue is that she show doesn't really give me insight into anything. What did you think of the show? Did you get anything from watching it? (I am genuinly asking and curious)
Shoshanna was slept on the whole series. She never stopped spitting hard facts at the other girls and despite her quirks she was the most down to earth and has a realistic character arc.
Straight-up!👍🏿
The episode with Shoshanna in Japan is seriously such a great tv episode, I can't stop thinking about it. She was truly the best of them and was terribly neglected as a character, especially in the last season. Such a shame
Facts
Hannah S I still remember that one, too- I watched the show only once, when it was released
I was so mad we didn’t see more of her, especially in the last season. She grew so much, and is a freaking badass by the series end
One important aspect of the show and the main character people always seem to ignore are mental health issues. Everybody focuses on unlikeability, privilege, entitlement, whiteness...etc but a driving narrative of the series is that many of the characters had severe mental health issues. Hannah had a myriad of them but most prominently OCD and bipolar, Shoshana had severe anxiety, Ray suffered from depression and alcoholism, Jessa was an addict. I think the show reads differently if you are in their age group and have dealt with mental health issues yourself. I never shoved a Q-tip in my ear until I ruptured my eardrum but I did spend nights awake crying until 4:00 am because I was worried I left the lights on downstairs despite having checked dozens of times. The way things like that effect your ability to function and maintain healthy relationships is something I hadn't seen on TV before. It doesn't excuse Hannah's behavior but it does explain it in a way people ignore when criticizing the show.
thanks.
now with this in mind, maybe it's worth a rewatch and rethink ☝🏽
@andrewthezeppo What makes you think Shoshanna has severe anxiety issues?
she's always panicking @@assanin2953
@@assanin2953 her whole character the first few seasons is just about her always wanting to keep up appearances and fitting in and following trends. She always seems nervous and agitated. They did give her growth and when she goes to Japan she does seem to have made a lot of progress. But at the root of it she pretty clearly has anxiety issues.
I’m not a fan of Lena Dunham and I’m not a fan of Girls. However I do agree that a lot of the critics leveled against the show have to do with the fact that it’s a show about unlikeable women by women. I want to see more unlikeable female characters in the media.
Currently we let unlikeable men off the hook for the same vile behaviour that we hold women accountable for. There is so much outrage when a women does the same horrible behaviour as men. Why is it ok for men to get away with that shit but not women? It’s horrible no matter who does it and everyone should be held accountable.
Veep was a comedy starring an unlikeable woman surrounded by (largely) unlikeable people, but it worked because of the witty dialogue and because the characters would find themselves in ridiculous situations by their own hand, t he tone of the show lent itself to the farce, and it was interesting seeing how characters responded to situations. Girls took itself very seriously and the situations facing the characters never came across as all that comical, and there just never seemed to be any stakes for the characters.
But I think the show's biggest problem is that it was never quite clear whether it was satirising the characters or if it was on their side.
Dream Dream Serene we should have unlikable women depicted in media. But this was just trash writing that strayed too much from it’s goals. The men were better written
People love Bojack and he was pretty horrible.
Crystal Wolcott reread the original comment. Male characters have always been allowed to be unlikeable.
Preach!
I never understand the criticism of shows like this, like "there are only self absorbed narcissistic white characters". Well... yeah, its a show ABOUT self absorbed narcissistic white people, and you should criticise it on how it tackles whatever subject it pretends to depitcts. Why do critics and people expect that every show tackle every subject at once when they dont like the subject that it acctualy tackles?
Maybe it should have been called Narc Girls then. I came in watching it with the full expectation it's about friends in the city who struggle but get through it and not girls who sabotage one another through toxic friendships.
There are a lot of other shows that are about self absorbed narcissistic white people. That seems to describe most shows.
I completely agree with this!
hahahaha I don't like this show, but this is a great point. I get annoyed when people are like "I hate this character" and it's like yeah you're supposed to hate them
Exactly.
I also don’t understand why everyone always has to point out that white people and white characters are white. There are plenty of white people who have absolutely horrific shitty ass lives even compared to some black people. These characters ARE self absorbed and narcissistic but they aren’t self absorbed and narcissistic because they are WHITE. I’ve met plenty of self absorbed and narcissistic people of all races and sometimes they justify it by stating that at least they aren’t white! It’s fucking ridiculous.
It was flawed, but it was very original when it came out. When I first watched an episode of Girls I was captivated, b/c I had never seen anything like it. It's easy as culture and art progress to look back and cringe at what was made before certain progressions, but when you look at it through the lens of the time it came out - it was compelling and important. There are shows and movies now that we all love, that 10 years from now we will see all kinds of offensive and narrow-minded threads in. The. point is to keep evolving and not take a shit on everything that was done before the evolution.
I can ride with this. I wrote some garbled up mess down thread, but I think your statement captures the feelings brilliantly. Perhaps no matter how out of touch and priviledge the show was, one could still relate to the characters on some level. There is a shared mourning as Millenials.
I thought that show seemed to like deconstructing a lot of other TV formulas and TV show morals of its time. The characters often try to "follow their dreams" or to live in New York, but they slowly learn the hard way that their life is not like most other TV shows from the 2000s or 2010s.
I loved it up until season 3...afterwards they kind of lost their way
Exactly. When the show premiered I was roughly the same age as Hannah and Marnie,and I could relate a lot.
Yup it absolutely captivated me when I first discovered it years back. It was very unique for the time.
wait a minute are we supposed to hate the characters because they are flawed? I never hated them, they just seemed honest. Maybe the world is not ready yet for women that take a long time to find themselves. Women in tv before girls were supposed to grew up and be responsible mothers or career women, while men could be childish in movies and get away with that. Finally we got some real characters with flaws.
I'd say that was even the best part of the show, the way they portrayed women as normal people with mixed feelings about alot of things, sometimes even not being on the right side if things but working your way to getting to right place, friendships drifting away, cutting off toxic people, the resentments that creep up as we age... It was dope, obviously it has its many shortcomings but she really did something here
preach girl
I loved liking and then disliking all of them. It was like with your real, long-term friends. Sometimes they annoy you, sometimes they charm you.
Does anyone think the show should be called "Seinfeld for Girls"? I thought the show was like a spiritual successor to Seinfeld because it seems like the Seinfeld characters were also intentionally made to be unlikeable so you can laugh when bad things happen to them.
Sorry, I have to disagree. The problem wasn't that they were unlikeable. As other people have pointed out, Julia Louise-Dreyfus's character on VEEP is unlikeable, Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character is unlikeable in Fleabag, Edie Falco in Nurse Jackie. Hell, even Sansa Stark on Game of Thrones. But those were all much more interesting characters than any of the titular "Girls." I'm not saying the show didn't have its moments, but having these women be unlikeable isn't enough to rest on for several seasons. There was something about those other characters that made us root for them anyway. With Girls, they were often whining and complaining about things that were just not that big a deal or that everyone in the world deals with. There were occasionally bit characters who would point that out, but they never had any effect on the main characters. They would hear it and dismiss it immediately. I watched every season and there were compelling moments and a good overall cast, but ultimately, with the characters having very little character growth at all, I felt like I'd wasted my time.
I live in the area of Brooklyn where Girls takes place and I have, for sure, encountered many many people who are similar to these characters 😂
Intensive Purposes yep! where many residents try to tell you how interesting they think they are and how they're thoroughly misunderstood
i honestly always thought it was supposed to be satirical, rather than a genuine attempt to be accurate. in that way, i found this show endlessly funny and understood why people liked it so much. that being said, i do understand the criticism of the show.
@@k_a_y_l_e_e it Was, but people are too damn stupid to see that
It just blows my mind that Hannah was able to afford to live in Greenpoint.
@Intensive Purposes "water bugs"
It was the oddest group of friends because they truly didn’t care about each other.
Yes! Exactly! I stopped watching because of them constantly sabotaging each other. It was the most toxic friendship i had ever seen
lmao
Absolute realism. Friendships in the big city for sure.
The characters don't truly care about each other in most other shows either. The main characters are toxic to each other on Friends, The Big Bang Theory, Seinfeld, How I met Your Mother, and so many other shows I haven't seen. Most TV/movie romances are pretty toxic too.
You'd be surprised how many friend groups are actually like that, sadly.
I will never not be annoyed that Marnie and Hannah are hated for being selfish, narcissistic, and expecting success while Don Draper and Walter White have the same defining traits and are worshipped as heroes.
Don Draper and Walter White are both the best there is at one thing each. Chemistry and sales. The Girls characters are just average shitty girls
Are they? I've seen them praised as being deep, complex characters but not for being good people. But I guess there are parts of the internet that thinks of the joker as a role model, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
@@misters1r900 I think it's the justification for selfish or immature male characters. They are so good in what they are doing. For Walter White it's ok to scream at his wife and kill countless of people that where more or less innocent but due to his "Genius" it's ok. Same with Don Draper, he abandons his children, fucks around half of New York has multiple breakdowns because he stole an identity, but as he is good in his job and charming it does not matter. It's a trope that is just to common for the real World, as many guys take the approach of "I can be shitty if I am good at my job", while maybe beeing slightly above mediocre and standing themselves in the way by beeing a dick to everyone that could help them become better. You are not Dr. HOUSE if you are a dick to your coworkers nobody wants to work with you, and you are easier to fire and a hard nö in a future hiring process.
FirstFallSnow I should have specified Draper and White are worshipped as “anti-heroes”; that was the buzz word at the time, right? The point being they are worshipped as complex characters with strengths and faults. They are worshipped in spite of being bad people.
The way people hated Skylar White kinda feeds into this. She wanted Walt to stop making meth, she wanted to protect her children, she tried to hold Walt accountable for his shit. And the public hated her to the point that Anna Gunn received death threats. While Walt, and Bryan Cranston, was lauded like a bloody rock star.
Walter White killed people and mass produced drug that ruins lives = anti hero of our times.
Marnie Michaels was judgemental of her friends and wanted to be a singer = worst person on television*.
I’m not saying the show is without its faults, but there is some deeply misogynistic shit that weaves it’s way through the discourse.
*There was some article written years ago criticising Girls that had a whole section about why Marnie was the worst human on tv, represented the most appalling characteristics of our times. Something to that hyperbolic affect - it was 6 years ago, idk.
Don Draper and Walter White had a character arc. They had to confront their flaws as they progressed and found a resolution for them. Girls characters had no character arc
I'm forty and my life still hasn't reached a "satisfying resolution." Seriously why do we expect fiction to wrap things up with a shiny perfect bow?
Because, smartass, fiction is not reality. Nor is it meant to be reality. No one sits to listen to a fucking story so it can have no satisfying ending -_-
Bojach had an ending like this, it tied some of the issues characters had, but made it clear that theyre gonna have to work on themselves.
They really made it sure youll get that these characters wont have a happy ending, since there is always tomorrow after the end.
Raul , I think she meant that shiny perfect bow endings can influence real life perceptions that we’re supposed to have everything figured out at one point in our lives. There is plenty of fiction that is missing a happy outcome
@@paloma4444 lol, how was I being a smartass? Some people enjoy movies or TV shows with open ended endings and I'm one of those people. I have nothing against people that prefer resolution.
I feel the same way, i love things with open endings because it not only is more interesting and down to earth this way but also doesn't give, what i think is, a toxic impression of how life is meant to be. The only ending in life is death, and expecting a happy ending like in a movie out of life has affected me personally in negative ways without me even realizing. So it's very refreshing when a show doesn't tie up everything neatly.
I don't care what anyone says about this show! I am a brown intersectional feminist living in India and I LOVE this show and Lena Dunham's writing, acting, strength and outspokenness. I feel that most of the backlash this show received (some of it is justified) is because the women didn't co-opt the idealized versions of femininity and it bugged people to see three dimensional (and yes, narcissistic, hateful but insightful) women on screen being confident and not afraid of asking for things (even though as viewers we may feel that they don't deserve those things). This show taps into the trials and frustrations of 20's and is at many times self aware of the content it puts out into the world. Some episodes were incredibly beautiful. I love this show and I am so glad I became aware of it and watched it
Lena didn’t write the show, she created it and was the show runner. It showed in the series inconsistent narratives.
Vanshika Agarwal people also had a problem with the show not having the same multi dimensional structure for women of color characters they were all in one note caricature stereotypes as if women of color can’t be complex and compelling
@@Kevin-rg3yc I understand and respect your point. If you read my comment, you'll see that I do state that some of the backlash is justified and even Dunham herself admitted that show is in many respects a product of privilege and disregards many aspects. But I have a few questions- is representation purely in the form of tokenism okay, aren't emotions universally experienced in a similar manner and should be judged on an intrinsic level as opposed to superficial one, is it necessary for every creative work to challenge all world notions and not the few that the creators prioritize based on their lived experiences?
Again, I am not an advocate for artists not being made accountable for content that they put out but sometimes multiplicity of discourses takes prominence away from real issues.
@@celondelon Agree -- however IMO the best episodes WERE written by her (Lena) and directed by Richard Shepard, Jenni Konner's husband. Those episodes felt like brilliant short stories to me. I wish the same effort was put into EVERY episode. The other episodes felt so disjointed, I personally never really felt like I got to know Shoshanna or Jessa etc., I got to know them as caricatures... I never felt personally invested. That's because they would MAYBE get one episode a season focused on their lives, but never in the same way that Hannah's character got an episode focused on her.
Vanshika Agarwal i think no one asked for tokenism they just asked to not present yourself like you’re a voice of a generation but only focusing on one demographic, can’t champion yourself as for all women but focus on the ones from a historical perspective are always represented. They asked that if you are gonna showcase diverse personalities don’t use the same one dimensional stereotypes and pushing them to the side, in fact that itself is basically what tokenism is and that’s exactly what lena did
I'm a black Afro-Caribbean man and I love this show. I've rewatched it at least once, and some episodes multiple times. It's not perfect but was revolutionary in its own way, and had to face a burden of being all things to all people, which it could not have possibly been, as it's about a very specific group of people.
However, despite how different these girls are from me, and the fact I'm older than they are, I related a lot to what they were going through, on occasion. When it started I too was still trying to find my way in life and off having adventures far away from home, while trying to maintain relationships with old and new friends. For me the claims that their experiences weren't universal meant those saying so simply lacked imagination. Also, Girls remained funny, and weird, and formally interesting. It shaped my understanding of the 30 minute "dramedy" and revolutionized the form. It was, and remains, a special show to me.
Sir your comment needs more likes! I was older than the characters when the show came out and it very much reminded me of being that age. I think the show was really sharp and had a wisdom that belied the age of its creator
Girls is a genius series, and Lena did an amazing job. If she was a man, this series would be worldwide applauded and praised as an amazing critique and analysis for today's generation society. Lena is so good at acting that people started thinking that Hannah was her.
And yes I hated all the characters and I thought it was annoying and pointless at first. But years later I still reflect on things that I saw on the series. You can learn a lot about yourself watching it.
This is so stupid
Umm... People thinking an actor is the character is BAD acting. It means you aren't acting, your just being yourself, which in her case, is the worst.
This is not common sense, this is only an opinion. I’m Brazilian and here soap operas are a huge thing, here when the actor is confused by the character it means nacional success
The best thing about Girls was the fact that it showed us what a good actor Adam Driver is.
I HATE people that HATE other people. I get a lot of HATE comments on my amazing videos and I HATE it. Please don't spread HATE. Do I have to HATE you too, dear rp
So true
AxxL are you okay? Do you need us to call someone for you?
he is THE best
That and also the song that played at the end of the last episode of the second season was really good.
I always thought the show was intentionally mocking the characters.
It wasn't because Lena Dunham was playing herself and there were plenty of moments of the characters feeling sorry for themselves in a non mocking way. An actual satire might have been a good show.
It does, but the show pulls its punches by presenting serious character flaws as minor issues.
@@fehzorz i mean i think she knows these things about herself. if i were to write an autobiografical sitcom i too would play up my worst qualities for comedic, or cringy effect. not saying the show was better than average, but ngl i had fun watching it
It absolutely is and i was always so confused about how much people hated it.
@@Retrostar619 absolutely.
If "Sex and the City" was the epitome of the American Dream, "Girls" devastated it. Everybody believed he could "make it", but only who could adjust to an average life found some degree of happiness. Ultimately, "Girls" is about dissatisfaction, a dissatisfaction you are not supposed to let go of because it fuels your ambitions. Other people are unimportant, except for being used for one's "goals". A depressing take on life. It reminded me much of my adolescence in a place I utterly hated and was incredibly happy to leave behind.
Thank you for the video. :-)
What always confused me about this show is that a lot of people were saying it was a good depiction of female friendship, I could never relate to that, I cut off toxic friendships from my life before my 20s
Lucky you girl. Alot of us dont
But they exist. Even if we don't like them, even if we cut those people off of our lives, they exist.
I've also written myself out from those circles, but I know they exist and as damaging as they are, some people stay in said friendships.
One of my very dear friends has had a circle of friends like that for a little over a decade (I'm obviously an outsider to their circle bc I refuse to engage in toxic behaviours), and I keep telling her that that's not a real friendship, but to her and them, it is. It's how they work and its fine.
and I understand that, that that's their friendship, as twisted as it is.
More an accurate depiction than a ‘good’ depiction, because it is pretty realistic to what a lot of female friendships that come and go are like, whether it’s relatable to you or not. And that depiction might be important to people who aren’t you.
It just seemed very middle or high school to me, these are grown women in their mid to late 20s, I could never understand why they're putting up with this shit
@@hambone.fakenamington my opinion is based on my experience, like everyone I imagine. I didn't say the show shouldn't exist, if people enjoy it good for them. I guess having them realize at the end that they're not really friends is a good thing
Really wish a show would finally come down on someone/a couple for choosing to have a kid when they clearly are in a bad situation to. Literally just replace baby with high end sports care in any financial decision, replace baby with quitting work in any career decision, replace baby with Xanax and Ritlin when it comes to emotional and mental stability decisions and suddenly it doesn't seem like such a good idea! Now do all three at once. Just because it is the creation of life does not excuse poor decisions.
Agreed. It’s actually really bothersome to me that Lena’s character was using a baby as an excuse or reason to finally grow up. That’s gross: one should be mature and grown up enough before bringing a life into the world. I’m glad they did an episode showing how terrible of a decision it turned out to be and how having a baby as a single woman is not a magical fairytale ending. Maybe that will encourage young women not to rush into parenthood before they’re ready.
I hate that. Or when a female character on a series is clearly not interested in having children the entire run of a show and then in end the writers have her ~finally~ decide she wants children to show her "growth". Not everyone wants children. Its not a character defect. Its not a sign of selfishness or immaturity that must be overcome. Its a valid life choice.
@@CC-rv4zc AMEN, WOW
I loved the series. I loved how unlikable and contradictory they were even though I couldn't relate to them, because, who would? It was great writing, every single character was in character and let me experience the universal in their very well depicted specificity.
Saame!
I can relate to them and I'm a xer. I know people like them. Most people contradictory weirdos stumbling through life. We just try to hide it, but most people are self absorbed.
@@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 Absolutely, I sometimes feel like people hate them cause they subconciously know they are or were like this at some point of their life. But everyone wants to believe we're these virtuous deep beings that are above it.
@@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 Amen to that.
Most characters were one dimensional except Hannah.
Maybe it's a relatability thing, more relatable for white people.
What never made sense was that she got a job as a professor without a masters degree or a PhD. In real life, the best you could do without those is be a part-time adjunct professor at a community college if you’re lucky.
Even at a community colleges you need to have at least a masters to teach.
@@azhrayharris8 Yeah, when I went to community college, most of my professors had a Masters.
I think even a lot of people with a masters or PhD are lucky to be a part time adjunct professor at a community college.
But don't she go to Iowa to get her master degree ? CMIIW 🤚
@@nategrahamjr3692 She went to Iowa but she did really poorly, got in arguments with the other students, and dropped out quickly without getting any degrees.
I appreciated that the Hanna character didn’t magically find peace and maturity at the end.
She was a dumb as season one episode one
I would love to see more videos about Girls like this one. The male characters were just as terrible but somehow more likeable (like remember when Adam sexually assaulted his girlfriend). Charlie and Elijah had their moments. And then of course there was Desi... Ray was the only reasonable one.
Ray was the best! I’m currently rewatching Girls (first time was as a teenager), and Ray is definitely my favourite character now. But at the same time, I think Characters are allowed to be problematic and unlovable, a show of only Rays would be boring. I feel like people are way less tolerant when it comes to female characters.
@@perseagratissima Totally agree. Ray is to Girls as Jim to The Office.
J H How is he a creep? I’m done rewatching season 1-3, so now I’m scared what’s about to come. But I totally agree that people tolerate way more when it comes to male characters!
@J H Take what I said with a grain of salt because it's been so long since I watched. I don't remember Ray being a creep but people definitely tolerate a lot more from.male characters for sure.
I feel like that whole "shitty male characters are somehow more tolerable than shitty female charcters" is rooted in subconscious sexism. We have been bombarded with male characters of many many different types and have been conditioned to believe that men can be as horrible as possible but that somehow makes them more "raw, mysterious, adventurous, and a tortured soul" we're conditioned to take men as they are, while women are made to feel like perfect pieces of scotch tape to fix men and their problems, and be everyones emotion punching bag. Ok rant over lol
I loved this series a lot because of how horribly realistic they were. I understand why people hate it, but I'm glad it exists
GIRLS will always be one of my favorite shows. Years later, they were still stuck in that middle ground of girlhood and womanhood, with the exception of Shosh. She grew into a badass but it was still hard to hear her be so honest about it. I never truly *liked* Hannah but I cried for her when she and Adam broke up and when she found out him and Jessa were together even though I liked them as a couple, I cried when she and Adam realized they had nothing left in common, I cried when she did her last tour of New York and I cried even harder when they all “broke up” in the bathroom despite how narcissistic she was. It was like watching my own friendships end. Shoshanna was right but I wanted their friendships to last at the same time. That clip at the party of them celebrating their night apart broke my heart and Hannah, of course, annoyed me so much for pushing Marnie away but it had to be done. I’d like to think she grew up and stuck with her job and started loving motherhood and independence and that Marnie and Jessa found some sort of happiness as well. They had all grown apart and it’s a sad reality about many friendships. It was a groundbreaking show in many ways that was about narcissistic, privileged people and I loved it.
To me, the problem wasn't that the characters were mostly unlikeable. In fact, I usually gravitate towards intentionally unlikeable characters, especially when they're female, because I love a flawed character whose job isn't to model good behavior; Fleabag and Rebecca from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are two of my favorite TV characters of recent years, and they're both deeply flawed and sometimes even irritating. The problem with Hannah was that there wasn't really anything compelling about her, and she never really evolved as a character, so she ended up being just a platter of detestable qualities without an interesting story attached to her. I think all the other characters were much more interesting than her, because at least they went through some character development during the series. I made it through the whole series only because of them, which made the heavily Hannah-centric final season such an aggravating watch.
I also felt like Girls as a the show didn't really have anything interesting to say beyond pointing out certain struggles certain, very privileged and very white millennials face, which is why it annoyed me how it presented itself as a reflection of an entire generation.
Ah, I relate. Although I could never find a taste for Rebecca (in Season 4 I was rooting for her to get better though!), I did absolutely LOVE Nathaniel. Despicable guy, where even the characters said “Why should we root for someone who is male, straight and white?” but he evolves. Improvement is always an option, however I dislike shows that intentionally keep characters the same. I need growth!
Don’t you mean white females? Bcus women of color were never looked to to “model good behavior” we were always portrayed in a negative light
👏👏👏
i mean It’s Always Sunny is about narcissistic people who never change and theres only one character development moment in the 14+ seasons its been running. a show doesnt have to have character development
Gina Coni this might seem like a stupid question but-how funny was “Girls”? Irredeemable assholes who never learn their lesson works for IASIP and Seinfeld because they’re funny to watch. 🤔
I don’t think people understand that the characters are INTENDED to be unlikeable... they represent all the weird fukn people you meet in your life, and the awkward often bad-vibe situations you find yourself in... these characters are more like me and my friends than any other show I’ve watched.
They are like the Seinfeld characters that way. I thought that by making the characters intentionally unlikeable, you, the audience, can feel superior to them and laugh when bad things happen to them.
@@josefk7437 yes! it worked like a mirror the way comedy should work.
Yeah but that’s tired. Not productive to intersectionality how many “Seinfeld’s” do we need?
Yup!
it was such a well written show, love or hate lena, she's a talented writer
completely agree. The dialogue is what makes the show, there's always something subtle and hilarious in the script
And the back-handed replies were hilarious... Girls is what happens to all of us and if society hates ot so much it just goes to show the lengths we really hate ourselves for being human .
So was Adolf hitler. What’s your point?
@@embeetoast2211 read again, you'll get the point.
@@embeetoast2211 The point is that she's a good writer, even those don't like her as a person (like myself) can acknowledge that she writes pretty well. I thought that was obvious.
I wanted to like it so badly, and I loved many of the major themes, but I just couldn’t get past season 1. I don’t need “likability” or relatability, some of my favorite show characters I truly loathe, like House - but I do need depth. I couldn’t accept that so many 20-somethings were so shallow and oblivious... the characters had robust vocabularies, malnourished souls and minds.
Simone Chèrie House got shit done.
That last sentence ... wow so on point!
They were indeed incredibly self centered, I don’t know if I would have survived those friendships without medication
Simone Chèrie thank you. I am so with you on this. However I think this show lacked relatability. That’s why this show also felt out of touch. I could not relate to Lena character nor found her sexual escapades believe.
Simone Chèrie thank you. I am so with you on this. However I think this show lacked relatability. That’s why this show also felt out of touch. I could not relate to Lena character nor found her sexual escapades believe.
I actually loved this show. When I watched it after it was already done, I was about the same age as the characters. As a girl in nyc, some of their experiences were sooo spot on, much like how I felt watching SATC. I wasn’t aware of all the criticisms.. yes the “it’s very white” one, but you know what? That is VERY accurate. You would be surprised how segregated NYC is.. the fact is, white people largely only hang out with other white people, blacks with blacks, Latinos with Latinos.. I don’t want to hear anyone replying “well not all I have a best friend who is xxxxx” I didn’t say ALL. I’ve lived most of my life in NYC, and after all these years I can’t say I’ve had a single, close friend who is white. Not one!! There where a few Europeans (who would go back home after a few months), that’s it! Even working in retail in 34th st.. we had maybe TWO white coworkers.. and of course the GM was white 🙄 never had white folks try to befriend me in college either! her show is ACCURATE. Maybe the society and system needs more criticism than the show it’s based on. I don’t think making a show about white people inherently wrong, the problem is when there is a lack of shows for everyone else. That story had a specific narrative that needed to be told.. there are many other types of shows with opportunities to include non-whites... this wasn’t it.
I had no problem with them being unlikeable that was one of the shows best features the problem is that there was no character arc, set-up or pay-off. The show was endlessly Groundhog Day.
I remember the show as being really good at first. By the third season I was out and not paying attention any more until this video popped up for me. Not only was there no character arc or payoff, but a lot of things that made the show funny either got old, or were replaced with really weird and bizarre storylines and incidents that made the show kind of repulsive. Not bizarre in a way that challenges you to rethink things, but just alienating.
Agreed ! One thing that bugged me was the introduction of interesting characters who would disappear after one or two episodes like Mimi. Whereas the most annoying would stick around ( Desi, Adam’s sister, Fran who was just awful all along). It was just set-up and set-up and no payoff. Not that character development is always needed but it just felt like a lot of episodes would introduce something seemingly important just to never adress it a gain.
Hannah lived in a "lousy" apartment? lol...in real life rent for that place would be close to 3,000 dollars. That's what I find the most frustrating about this show...the way they portrayed "struggling" as living in pretty much comfort.
I loved this show! Great acting, great writing, great characters and, to be honest, Carrie Bradshow is far more self-centred and narcissistic than Hannah Horvath: at least, Hannah is 20-something, Carrie is 30-something, almost 40 in the last season, and she is still clueless, selfish, petty and childish. Plus, those who didn't understand that the character of Hannah is a satire of millennials, simply didn't get the whole point of the show.
Right? It's like you start watching a crime series and get upset there were murders in it.
I completely agree with this! When I first watched Sex and the City in my early 20’s I could only dream of having a life like Carrie Bradshaw’s and I thought her relationship with Mr.Big was passionate and riveting when in reality it’s extremely toxic. I thought that Carrie Bradshaw was a multidimensional, talented, strong woman ( despite her flaws) with loving friendships. Watching it now, it’s like I’m seeing it through a completely different lens. Carrie Bradshaw is one of the most annoying, self centered, needy, codependent, narcissistic woman depicted on television that takes everything and everyone in her life for granted. Like you said, at least Hannah was in her early 20’s and her selfishness was much more age appropriate. I didn’t even think Hannah was as narcissistic and bad of a person as everyone made her out to be. Yes, she made some terrible choices and did some cringe worthy things but haven’t we all in our 20’s?
“Entitled White Girls” was the real title but it was too woke.
at least people would have gotten the point lol
I'm in Russia, not entitled, just have university degree (in Russia the most of ppl have it), live in a big city, and I see much resemblance to life depicted in the show. I had this sense of recognition and my friends had even though we are from another culture, so I think the show is genius.
The Sex and the City characters were just as self centered. I think a lot if the hate is tied into hating millennials
I hated both shows.
girl the sex and the city characters actually cared about each other, the only self centered person was carrie
Oh no way. In Sex and the City the women voiced what they wanted from the beginning. In Girls these girls played their partners, their friends and themselves. They had toxic self destructive behavior. I am a millennial myself but Girls showed me exactly how NOT to be.
"S&tC" is to the "Girls" what "Friends" is to "It's Always Sunny"
What’s wrong with putting yourself first
“I give zero fucks about anything, but I have an opinion about everything.” Millennial or otherwise, I think we’ve all felt like that at some point.
Okay I don’t feel so bad about the time I binged 4 seasons of this anymore lol. I liked this show. BECAUSE the characters were so flawed. I hate one-dimensional characters. I liked that they had problems and I liked that so many of their problems were self-created.
Im a straight black guy and I loved this show. I thought the writing and directing were great and Ray was the absolute best
Agreed man
Same
Same here I rewatch it all the time.
Ray was SO funny
I recently watched the whole series, at the age of 23, so my point of view is that of a "young adult" who can still relate to the show in a world that is somehow very similar and at the same timethe result of the years depicted through it.
I think people didn't like to recognize their own sh*tty behaviours in those of the characters. I also hated many of the things they did but at the same time instantly recognized them as real. This made me accept and make some critical thinking about it in general and in introspective ways. I would also go as far as to say that Girls /actually/ taught me something about me and other people, allowing me to see shade of greys as human. Of course I always hope that everyone can choose to act at their best, but also that there is space to improvement because we are not perfect. None of us.
P.S. I can't believe there are really people who didn't understand the self-critical, self-ironic jokes... Come on.
Ironically, this show did end up being a voice of a generation. The entitled too-big-to-fail narcissistic assumptions of up-and-coming Americans in the 2000's and 2010's are dead upon the current new decade with hard times and humble pie now ahead. 'Girls' was a stylish snapshot of that window of time. I'm glad Dunham did it.
Ok but didnt they literally grow up in a recession what are you on about
@@cameroncorp Unless you think a college student is a child, they didn't grow up during the recession. The recession impacted their lifestyle but not their worldview. Don't be dense, please.
@@QuietlyCurious no a collage student is around 20 right? Follow so far? So they would have been 7 when the great recession began. Now I don't know about you but I don't think you have stopped growing up by the age of 7. If your talking about collage students at the time the show began, they would have been in their early teens, so unless your talking about the "entitled too big too fail narcissistic assumptions" of literal children who would be too young to be thinking about their economic futures, then yeah the great recession would have definitely affected their expectations.
Also acting like that generation needed to struggle to find economic stability during a recession caused by generations before them to give them "humble pie" for expecting to be successful as a literal child with no actual idea about their economic future, while ignoring the varying economic backgrounds that will have affected people's expectations, is just weird and dumb. Just cause something sounds profound doesn't stop it from being bullshit, just stop
Lol
@@cameroncorp You're weird and dumb. You didn't understand my original comment, and you didn't watch the show. Or if you did, you didn't watch closely. And of course each character has a unique individual econ background. My comment didn't negate that, sheesh.
I think Girls just exaggerated features of its characters to reflect millenial's fears about themselves. You can’t assault insecure self-absorbed overhinker, because he or she already said everything you can imagine to him/herself. Dunham is super self-aware. Girls just took us or situations we find ourselves in and brought them to extreme points so we could make fun of how stupid, selfish, lazy and childish we are and still how high our expectations could be. It actually helped me and my girls to relive some shit, feel less lonely and move on. We loved the show.
I always thought it was written with too much ego, like Hannah was who Lena Dunham saw herself in her head. It just never stopped being "iM nOt LiKe OtHeR gIrLs, I'm SoOoO dEeP" while everyone's characters were very flat. Very tone deaf to not only the solutions right in front of them, but tone deaf to their own self destructive patterns.
The only good episode after season 1 was the season 5 episode which centred around Marnie and I don't think that's a coincidence.
I think that about a lot of shows. Like the writer thinks they're so smart but really they're just meh. I bet it's hard to write a character you play as a 3 dimensional person.
That is the point. They were supposed to be tone deaf and narcissistic characters.
The characters were multi dimensional and realistic. I loved the show and I loved the characters they flawed but that was what made them beautiful.
It's always funny but judging by the number of shows I saw based in NYC, including this one, I thought NYC was like 95% white Americans. To my shock when I looked it up and realized NYC was 57% non white, including 25% black. Oh Lena, sigh
The point is, we usually get Manhattan, or worse, Upper East Side, and label it as the whole NYC. But NYC is also Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island. But the media makes us believe that the extremely white and wealthy Manhattan is all NYC is about.
@ So true. I mean, there are SO many immigrant communities, so many cultures and kinds of foods combing in one massive city. One would think showing all the sides of New York would actually make for a more interesting setting, and even better story opportunities, since you can show different peoples and how they live. But nope
Matheus G. S. This is similar to the tv show cold case. I rewatched it from beginning to end and noticed that the show was overwhelmingly white, despite Philadelphia having the largest black community in the largest cities. I also noticed that they tended to focus on certain areas of the city on the show (Chestnut Hill and Kensington) and the episodes featuring black characters usually focused on race or were in one neighborhood (Badlands). This representation is such an inaccurate view of the city and it’s really disheartening.
In my experience woke he city is diverse... people's relationships often aren't
It's strange to me how so many people missed the parody and irony in this show. If you are looking for uncomplicated cliche characters, it's not for you. If you're looking for a show that confronts you with seeing the unpopular sides of yourself, it's brilliant.
I would love to see character studies on the Belcher family from "Bob's Burgers".
Yessss
u should do a video on series finales and why people hate most of them or how they should end shows
Yesssss that would be a great 👍🏾 take. The Trope of bad finale endings.
A video on endings in general, how they can be justly hated (How I Met Your Mother), debatably misunderstood (Seinfeld, Quantum Leap) or beloved (Cheers, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Newhart). All 3 tropes.
When you know your worth, no one can make you feel worthless
It's A STORY, Hannah is what she is, she didn't have to be likable or redeemed. I enjoyed almost all of it back then, and it really has hit close to home, because my best friend was also dating my ex who I broke up with and is now married to him. She stopped talking to me when they got together and we never made it up. It was so sad to see it on the show.
Lena took the whiteness of the show so seriously, her character got a black baby
And not even black since the father is played by Riz Ahmed, who is a Pakistani man from England.
That baby was darker than both of them Lmao I was like come on think for a second
It means she listened and learned.
@@cv8499 Are you joking? I've never watched Girls, but assumed that the father was the Donald Glover character. That's really insulting.
@@toomuchinformation Nope, not joking. There's a whole episode of her meeting Riz and sleeping with him, then finding out shortly after that she's pregnant.
Do one about girlfriends
Please
I would love a deeper insight into why Joan and Toni stayed friends for as long as they did. I have my own opinions but I like the way The Take delves into things
I’ve been binge watching this show since it came on Netflix! As a gen Z kid, it’s eye opening to see the depictions of black women that my mother consumed as a young adult, and how it manifests even now in her identities and parenting. I would love for the take to analyze it!!
Elizabeth N Joan was a light skinned and mixed woman who wasn’t the pretty one, as she would have expected. Toni was the dark skinned woman who was the pretty one and understood that she’d have to be feminine to get the same amount of respect and desire from men that the typical mixed woman would. However, Joan was successful in her career and had a house so she had that going for her. This allowed her to swallow the jealously she had for Toni and maintain the friendship. So it makes sense that the friendship ends when Joan finically gets to be the “it girl.” She finally gets the be the main girl and rubs it in her friends’ faces. The rest forgive her but Toni moved on finally able to be her own woman.
Gross Yes! Joan wasn’t mixed though 🙏🏾
I come from a developing country in Asia so watching this was such an infuriating experience. I couldn’t get past an episode without rolling my eyes. Some of the things they says which reeked of narcissism left me aghast, enraged and exhausted. Again, I have to remind you of where I am coming from. Poor country, lots of people struggling and fighting over limited opportunities. Where you can’t afford to just think about yourself when you have siblings to put through school with your meager convenience store salary.
same! I never watched the show, so maybe it's unfair, but coming from a developing country as well, I'm nothing but grateful for having had the chance of studying a career and being independent, I don't get why the more privileged people get, the more unhappy (specially Americans)
@@lovechildmag This is definitely oversimplified but I think this has to do something with Maslow's hierarchy, when you don't have to worry about food or having a roof over your head, live in a place that's safe for everyone and mostly not corrupt, then you focus on other needs of human being that are more messy such as having a "purpose" in life, "self-fulfillment", living your "dreams", having "no regrets" etc. Obscure concepts that rule the western world and that many companies take advantage of and push/market to us to make billions of dollars out of our suffering lol... At least that's my theory. The West is also an individual society and not a collective society.
@@michz9304 that's such a good analysis... I'm kinda guilty of it myself to be fair, but thank you for giving me some hindsight. It makes total sense
Mich Z Good analysis! But regardless of them reaching the pinnacle of Maslow’s hierarchy, one thing I’ve haven’t seen them practice is gratefulness. Religion (Christian, Buddhist, etc.) encourages that. Oprah built an empire on peddling gratitude journals. These characters just whine and take and whine some more. And it seems this video essay like many others who in their own way celebrate Girls tolerate this petulant and entitled behavior. I know this series is not a full representation of American women in their twenties but wow, it really changed my impression of them for the worst if such “Girls” really do exist.
Anna Borbely Good point! HBO’s own “reality TV show” hahah. But unlike reality TV which is junkfood, Girls has been treated like a think piece by critics, etc. This video essay is proof of that. And for it to go on multiple seasons and Lena Dunham to be validated for her work shows this society doesn’t treat Girls like the Kardashians.
I fell into watching the last season again recently, and it stands up - not least because it's been a while since a 'what has Lena Dunham said NOW?' moment. It takes real guts to flesh out characters who can be seriously unlikeable (yes even Shosh, who despite her insights is also an appalling snob) and show their finer, vulnerable and sweet aspects, too. Yay to honest & not neat endings (except for Elijah, who so needed a win); yay to Loreen dishing out some hard truths. Yay/eek for Hannah starting to face up to what's required of her as a parent, beyond the pregnancy being an 'out' from putting in the work of actually fulfilling her potential or facing up to there being no substance behind it. No, there's no getting away from the privilege and entitlement: that also feels core to what the lived experience would be for these regularly highly unpleasant characters. As studies of particular people at an age and place in time, it's a smartly, sharply and honestly observed piece of work IMHO.
I remember people referring to this show as "The voice of our generation". This was a great show about 20 something white women coming of age that I binged but saying this was the voice of an entire generation is a stretch. Good show but outside of cis white woman who's voice was this?
When a TV show has an all black cast, do SJWs like you ask where are the white people. My guess is no.
What the hell does cis even mean?
@@1bridge11 if they call it "the voice of a generation" you bet your salty little ass cheeks I do 😉
1bridge11 wow lol you’re still using SJW as an insult? What is this, 2015?
@@djervalevy9784 It means your gender identity matches what you were assigned at birth. If you identify as a man and were assigned as male at birth you would be a cis man.
It's what they say: good art generates lots of emotions, not always or only good ones, in the spectator. It was great fun liking and disliking each one of the characters, like real people. Great take on a wonderful show.
“I mean literally all three of those things”😂
Can we now get an episode on "Crazy Ex Girlfriend: How to End a Show People Loved to Love" ?
Okay so I just finished watching the show for the first time as a 25-year old man living in SF - but I'm from the northeast originally. I think what drew me to the show in its inception and first few episodes was the realistic view it gave of the messy, yet whimsical, yet horrifying view of the world that a young person may have - especially in today's day and age as we all suffer under the early stages of late capitalism.
But what made me continue to sour on the show and ultimately hit the level of "hate watch" was the input that Lena Dunham gave after the episodes after the credits rolled. There were hints of self-awareness and a willingness to convey that these characters weren't to be admired, but she ultimately still identified with the characters and defended their horrific actions.
One moment in particular that stands out is late in season 5, I believe, when Hannah once again finds herself in the principals office for being an immature, short-sighted teacher. When the principal - HER BOSS - threatens to fire her, Hannah reveals her genitalia to get out of the predicament. On its own, this is quite bad and immature, but I was willing to let it go because it's not real and the aforementioned principal seemed to "enjoy" the gesture. However, in the interview with Lena Dunham after the episode she says something to the affect of "Hannah has the right to show her genitalia to whoever she wants." Which truthfully horrified me as a viewer.
No, Lena, she doesn't. No one has the "right" to show their genitalia in the workplace to their office superior in a non-consensual manner. It's inappropriate and downright sexual assault in a slightly different context. Imagine if the rolls were reversed by gender, would she have said that? Never. It really stunned me. I couldn't quite believe that she said that and nearly defended the action. It was instances like that where I started to see the cracks in the premise and writing. But perhaps I have to give kudos to the actors for portraying such awful characters.
Hmm another one to add to the list of shows and movies I had no idea people “hated”. I thought Girls was a pretty good show-up until the last season. I felt like all the characters on that show went from a steady downward spiral to just plummeting face front at full speed on the last season.
are you kidding me ??? the last season was SO good
I also did not know is was so widely hated and misunderstood (just looking through this comment section 🙄).
What other examples did you come across?
I think people hate the show so much because they do not understand that it is meant to portray imperfect, hateable people. It is a joke, a sarcastic view on millenials. How can people not see that?
And the finale is genius. All these fairy tale endings where all problems suddenly disappear and everyone gets what they have been aiming for + all friendshift remain perfect inspite of fundamental character changes are a big load of bs. Girls is more realistic. If you don't like that, go back to your feel-good series but do not diss the show just because you do not understand it.
It's more so for the fact that Lena Dunham is incredibly problematic and the show is a reflection of her mindset since she is the author.
I think many people dislike it because it's impossible to tell how self-aware the creators are when it comes to writing the characters. For me, there was always a little bubble of unease I used to sit in whenever I watched Girls - does Dunham realise just how morally screwed up their behaviour is? I kinda get the sense that she sometimes thinks horrific behaviour is actually quirky and/or endearing, and the show sometimes reflects that. I still enjoyed watching a few seasons and the writing is generally quite fresh and inventive, but the underlying feeling of queasiness never left me. I don't need all my shows to be feel-good, but I do need them to show me some moral consistency over time.
Auntie Lydia being on Girls makes so much sense.
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Girls was a great show, yes it had a lot challenges with representation however it was so raw showing how flawed we are especially in our 20s, being self absorbed, realizing you actually don't know alot of things and attempting to make a life for yourself separate from the ideal sold to you as a child, it was a perfect depiction of how the coming of age journey is messy, I especially loved Marnie's story.
Right. But it was a coming-of-age story where none of the characters ever actually come of age. That's where it fails.
@@cv8499 didn't they though? 😏
@@yveqeshy If you mean did they get physically older? Yep. Mentally or emotionally? Not so much. Shoshanna probably did have the biggest growth spurt as far as realizing that they should all move on and not be friends anymore--but even she says it's because their dynamic is dysfunctional and boring. 🤷🏽♀️
@@cv8499 I disagree, I think each one of them had their own individual growth Hannah having that tirade with the the pant less teenager in the street to me was her getting to a pint where she realised the role she now has to play both as a mum and a daughter, Shoshanna cutting them all off because they were toxic to her energy was her coming of age story, she needed to find people who did not hold her back, Jess confrontating herself and realizing she wasn't as great a friend to me was the personal growth in her story, for Marnie I felt like her story wasn't completely done, especially considering throughoit the show she wS the one who seemed to get the harshest realities about life dropped on
@@yveqeshy Right, but again, the "revelations" they all had in the last couple of episodes they'd all had before. Several times. When Hannah was teaching at the high school she came across students who she realized were being immature or acting entitled and had those kind of "grow up, kid" convos with them. But then she went right back to being immature and entitled herself. (She goes to get a tongue piercing with one of her students and tries to break up with a guy by jumping out of a car and hiding behind a tree.) It was a mature decision for her to realize her and Adam weren't going to work and she should raise her baby on her own. But then very next episode--WAH! She'd decides taking care of a baby is hard! Who knew? So she's just going to walk away from that responsibility and only go back after she realizes (for the millionth time) that she's being immature.
Jess has realized several times that she's a crappy friend, sort of apologized, then went right back to being a crappy friend. At any point could we actually see her BE a better friend after one of these revelations? Nope. I had kind of thought after she helped deliver Adam's sister's baby or after she went to rehab, she was going to realize she actually liked helping people and that would be her character arc, but nope. Jess at the start of the show is more or less Jess at the end of show, except now she has a boyfriend that she sacrificed a friendship for.
Shoshanna cutting off the friends was really necessary, but even that had the feel of her play acting at being a grown-up. She was always the one from the start of the show who was obsessed with what women her age are "supposed" to be doing. So her getting a new crowd of friends and getting engaged--to someone the show hadn't even shown her date--felt like more of the same.
As for Marnie, same thing. There was a great episode when she spends the day with her ex-boyfriend Charlie and realizes how wrong for each other they are and that she should be alone for a while and figure out who she is on her own. She had also realized in earlier seasons with him that he didn't satisfy her sexually, partially because she didn't ask for what she wanted. Great! Then right after that, she meets that weird artist guy who treats her terribly, has terrible sex with her, and she completely gets off on it. She dates Ray for a minute, who was really sweet to her, but for her he was just someone to occupy her time and that quickly implodes. The harsh reality that her dream job isn't going to be served up to her on a platter gets served to her over and over and over again, and each time she's shocked. So her announcement that she might try law school is just another whatever moment. Judging by every previous story line, you get the feeling she'll go to law school and drop out after the first semester because she's not a lawyer yet.
I liked the epilogue style a lot. You thought there were some resolutions in the “faux finale” but then you’re back to the uneasy state you were in watching the first episode.
I thought this show was well written. And I'm not a woman, gay, living in NY, or even white.
It was a show.
Same here
I don't know why it got so much hate, I loved it and it had so many parallels with my life - friend groups are messy, you make the same mistakes over and over, life doesn't end up how you think it will - you think you'll get the dream job, house, relationship, stay friends with the same people, so in that sense I think it was a great series!
As someone stuck in a Midwest middle to upper class suburb at 17-19 when I kinda watched this show, I found it incredibly realistic to what the white cis girls who were trying to figure out their shit while maintaining new volatile roomie relationships with their old HS bffs.
I was dealing with enough of that in my hometown so I didn’t watch the show too much, but I knew a loooot of girls who watched this show and were basically clones of the characters on it.
What the hell does cis even mean?
Djerva Levy that you identify with the sexual organs you were born with, it’s an alternate to trans so nobody sounds like an asshole when differentiating between the two ends of that spectrum.
Djerva Levy there was a nicer way to ask that, if that was a genuine question
@@emndiaye9019 It was genuine, but the person who made the statement wasn't trying to be nice, soo...
@@djervalevy9784 are you talking about the poster? They just state that they were cis nothing mean. Also, just because you didn't think someone said it nice in their post you decided to respond to them with a question angrily??
Watching that video was like meeting an Ex. Shameful, yet nostalgic.
I've been waiting for the Take to do a video about Girls! Thanks ladies :)
I’m a filipino gay man and the reason why I love (or sometimes, hate) this show because i relate to the characters so much. It portrays the struggles of being in your 20s so well. Even though I can’t relate to it directly, the context and meaning it represents mirrors, i think, most of the 20 something year olds around the world. It shows the good and mostly bad and dark things about your age and i think that’s why most people hated it. Of course it has flaws but overall i love this show so much
When in came out in 2012 I knew it was not for me. I liked it amd watched many seasons of it but Watching it I never expected to see myself in the characters. It was just a guilty pleasure for some time until i lost interest. But yeah...
I'm a black woman in an urban city and I knew this show wasn't made for me and that was okay.
It represented someone's life and I knew girls who's life went like this for the most part and that's what made it funny to me.
Was having a mixed race baby Dunham's answer to the show being too white? That's bullsh*t
Yeah
I doubt it. Riz Ahmed was a huuuuuge name at the time of that episode. He was also an hbo alumn from the ‘night of’. It’s prob why they cast him
I liked this show from the beginning, and I still like it. Many of the characters are frustratingly self-absorbed at times, but it was refreshing to see something like that. The writing was really good, and perhaps because they weren't afraid to show the unlikeable aspects of the characters they could really explore some interesting topics, often about bad friendships - and a lot of moments throughout were so relatable. I recently watched Girls a second time and after all these years, I still think it's compelling and the writing is really good - an episode like "American B*tch" is just brilliant. There are so many moments captured in this show, that I haven't seen anywhere else, executed with such precision and subtlety. I think, especially Americans, are used to seeing aspirational (pretty) characters so they were quick to turn on a show like Girls. Girls highlighted, many times, that those goals that used to mark adulthood were out of reach to millennials, not being able to find work after graduation or being expected to work as interns with no pay, living in shared flats not being able to find or afford a place of their own, STILL struggling to find a sense of direction etc. etc. they were so spoiled, you know... Also, it was really in the zeitgeist to hate millennials, so much so that even many millennials were convinced that their generation was the worst thing to ever happen to society. Then Lena published her book that caused a lot of outrage on the internet, and she'd already committed the crime of being 'chubby' and nude on screen, dared to portray a "flawed" girl, and having enjoyed great success through her work. It became mandatory to hate the show and Lena Dunham, I know people who've never seen the show but they know they hate it. I'm still surprised over how much was expected from this show.
I hope that in like 5 years or so it gets its redemption and people can look past all the noise and just appreciate it for what it was and what it did. Maybe it has to be another generation that discovers it or something, I don't know...
I can never be mad at girls because it gave us Adam Driver 😭😭😭
When they mentioned how Lena Dunham attributed how her show was picked with little up on her end due to white privilege reminded me of the showrunners for Game of Thrones. Exactly how and why they got their jobs. HBO has a problem I see.
It offers a realistic portrayal on life. Characters on Sex and the City were well established in terms of careers and personality, while these individuals were figuring themselves out. As a guy, I had trouble following the show. Couldn't watch any episode due to the pace at which the dialogue was exchanged. This presentation did an amazing job at presenting the program in a simple manner.
Sadly, I don't hate watch this show. I feel represented on these girls, or some aspects of them. I'm in a point of my life very similar to Hannah's when the show starts, and the "Flo" chapter in season 3 really touched me. I don't like the "ugly" aspects and attitudes, but people are not perfect, I'm not perfect. So I like this kind of honesty on media.
Would love to see the Take on Fleabag👌🏼
Fleabag is a masterpiece. Period.
They did it quite recently.
Never truly knowing when the show was being self aware - when it was in on the joke and when it really organically that tone deaf is what makes Girls such a well done TV series. Its ambiguous, complex, confusing, hilarious, and the result of the real privilege Lena and the rest of the girls came from. But thats not all Lena, Jenny and Judd are also phenomenal.
I didn’t like the show. I stopped watching halfway through the second season. Not my thing. But yeah, even I thought that “Voice of a Generation” media scrutiny was clickbait bullshit.
I hate watched the whole show. You didn't miss anything except Season 5 Episode 6 (the panic in central park).
I think it'd be cool if you guys should talk about Insecure. It definitely deals more with intersectionality than Girls and I feel the characters are far more likeable if not sympathetic.
Yes!
I feel like GIrls is one of the few shows in the universe that expose the myth of "growing up". Everything else pretty much tells us, people can grow, change, and become something else (literature to the self-improvement industry). This show tells us people just take on more responsibility, but underneath remain the same person. Idk about you, the only growth I experience is in my knowledge and experience but I am still very much the same person, and any change is temporary. I have seen the same of many of my friends, some of them brilliant career women and men. We tend to equate success with personal growth/change but that is bullshit. Progress is progress. People's ideas, worldviews, and priorities may change but they are still very much the same--behaving similarly, relying on the same coping mechanisms, harboring the same habits, biases, and tendencies despite minor adjustments here and there. It is only in strong social (and other) pressures that people change, but remove those pressures you will see people climb back into themselves.
I think one of the reasons people hate this show is how unapologetically it shows this; the characters on the show "know" the truth and we resent them for it because we cannot live that truth for ourselves as openly as we want. Instead, the truth is this unsaid performative thing that everyone pretends is real, so it is strange when others(like GIrls) point it out the sham.
(comment made elsewhere by me)
Great post.
I really don’t like Lena Dunham and Adam Driver was too good for this show.
What I hated about the season finale was the fake feminism portrayed by a supposed feminist.
Hanna becomes mature because she's a mother!? So pregnancy is the way of becoming a mature women? Not very feminist.
Shoshanna had other friends and a successful job but the only focus was her wedding.
Jessa gave up studying to be with a man.
Marnie had the only ending that was accurate.
I wanted to see more about the new life of Shoshanna and I wanted to see Jessa working with trouble young people. That would be full circle.
I don't mind Hanna gave up the New York illusion because that's realistic.
They hated them because they were too real. The funniest part of the show was Adam Driver's character reacting to the girls bullshit
thanks to this show for helping me survive through my 20s and growing up with me🙌🏽
I was shocked to see that Jian Ghomeshi clip presented without context. A person I had hoped to never see again in popular media.
I'm surprised it took me this much scrolling to find a comment about that! 😬
There is a whole show with him as a main character
I've always held such a deep disdain for characters and real people who have kids in order to fulfill or fix *themselves,* instead of having them because they have something good to offer a child.
Hannah is this kind of character.
But this kind of person exists, not only on a show you hate watch, but also in real life.
That's the kind of show Girls was.
Oh this will be good, Adam Driver and Andrew Rannells were the only reasons I watched.
oof
You watched a libfem show for the men in it. Love It lol
Same. As we got further into the show, it was the men and Shoshanna that I watched for
Clara Rogalinski exactly...I should have mentioned Ray too but I didn’t know the actors name. And I agree about Shoshanna.... she was hands down my favorite girl.
I liked this series. I couldn't relate to any character or situation, but it's still fun to watch something even if you don't relate to it and try to understand the characters and their actions. It was well written and shot, the acting felt natural.
I'm not a fan of Lena, but I respect and enjoyed this show. But I didn't really like the ending, it just didn't feel like an ending. The last episode felt like the first episode of the new season rather than the finale.
"the last episode felt like the first episode of the new season rather than the finale" i think that was the point.
@@k_a_y_l_e_e Yes they did end the show like that on purpose, it just fell flat for me personaly. I didn't really word my comment clearly :)
Adam Driver is the best thing that happened to Girls and us from Girls
As much as Lena says ppl can't seperate a woman's character from the real woman is interesting to say. I can easily divide character from reality from Fleabag and Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Both these characters are layered like the Girls characters. I think the problem is she brought the controversy INTO reality with her own behaviour. Fleabag and Rachael Bloom aren't like their characters or (for fleabag) have grown out of the character before the show started.
Maybe the people hating on Girls aren't used to seeing deeply flawed women in their entertainment. It's becoming more common though, Fleabag on Netflix is another good example. We're not perfect, often far from it, nor should we be.
I think the show is somewhat realistic to life for this demographic - I know many women in their 20's who behave in similar ways to the characters in Girls. In fact, I'm an older Millenial but I can easily see parts of my 20-somethig self in the characters too. However, Hannah's 'happy ending' is not realistic at all in terms of her housing and job just falling into place.
Very well put. The show and Lena herself grew so so much since it started and raised needed questions (partially on purpose and not). Perspectives are narrow and people make mistakes and she's spoken exhaustively about all of the controversies she unleashed, apologized and kept educating herself. Naturally, the show is now a bit outdated plus she was super young and entitled when it started, but being 25 I kinda grew up with it and its complexity and frustrating nature helped me understand and challenge myself, at times even almost as a cautionary tale. Bittersweet and compelling. Great reflection.
I loved the show, the episode with the male author is one of the most powerful episodes of television I've ever seen. Thank you Lena xx
From wich season is that episode?
I feel like this show was one of the last ones that depicted how life was before technology (completely took over) and now we are all living on our phones with our heads down constantly. The parties and get togethers and even just hanging out with one or two friends didn't include everyone with their eyes only fixed on their phone screens like you see (everywhere) now!!! This is what we've lost and it was literally only a year or less that the changes happened in our society. It's kind of heart breaking!!
I watched the whole show and I liked it. I don’t relate to them and they are very unlikable but is refreshing to watch flawed, narcissistic and annoying women. We’re so used to watch men and accept them with their flaws and childish behavior and I don’t understand why women have to be perfect for us to like them.
I saw two of the girls grow into thoughtful women and two of them age, but not really grow. The lesson hear is that some people grow with age and some don't. I've found that this is true in life. Getting older doesn't always equate to getting better or wiser.
I'm not sure, but I think if they had hired a different actor to play Hannah I might have liked the show more.
There were moments that Hannah's selfishness could have been more comedic, but really it just pissed me off.
The jokes never fully landed because the acting wasn't good enough to portray the ridiculousness of the situations and it came off as serious statements.
Omg I have wanted you to do Girls for So Long!!!