ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- The same features... we're talking about the same features.
News just broke out that AMD is working on AI Upscaling for their GPUs to compete more directly with Nvidia's DLSS. Which is a huge turn of events from AMD, but really cool news at the same time. It could allow AMD graphics cards to have much less compromises compared to Nvidia which just narrows the gap between their gaming performance (as long as it looks and performs well).
HOWEVER! This whole situation almost brings up more questions than answers... What GPUs will be compatible? Will AMD require you to upgrade?? How long will it take to be good and accessible in games? In this, we try and answer these to our greatest extent. But let me know what you think on how this could go!
==JOIN THE DISCORD!==
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HUB: • Nvidia's DLSS 2 vs. AM...
• RIP FSR Upscaling, Lon...
No Priors: • No Priors Ep. 53 | Wit...
www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/...
gpuopen.com/fidelityfx-superr...
www.intel.com/content/www/us/...
videocardz.com/newz/amd-exec-...
www.pcgamer.com/amd-microsoft...
gpuopen.com/fidelityfx-super-...
www.amd.com/en/products/graph...
/ rx_7000_series_gpus_ai...
/ dlss_on_gtx_cards
store.steampowered.com/hwsurv...
/ testing_xesss_dp4a_path
www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-...
0:00- DLSS is so good, AMD had to answer
1:38- AMD switched up
2:45- Possibilities of AMD AI Upscaling
4:36- Compatibility Problem.
7:36- The XESS Approach...
9:40- Too little, too late?
12:01- Infinite Possibilities - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You can't have it both ways, we've been complaining about FSR not being an ML algorithm for so long, now that we're finally getting it we're gonna complain about compatibility with old cards? That's just how it goes, the underlying hardware is necessary. We already have a fallback, it's FSR.
I just posted also that I wouldn't care and I just upgraded to a 6800xt and not upgrading for awhile. I don't want AMD to hold back innovation if it requires 7000 series cards. I did that with the GTX Super 1650 and I wasn't mad
yeah but the people saying what you're saying are the same people who yell and scream about dlss frame gen not being on 30 series.
I agree, it’s gotta happen at some point. Though doing like what XESS did is a much smoother way to make the transition
@vextakes but isn't the fallback just fsr 2/3? Why wouldn't they have the capability to be backwards compatible?
And wanting better RT performance 🙄...
Microsoft said that DriectSR is NOT their upscaler, but an API to use 3rd party upscales and make it easy for developers to integrate them all, so the dev uses DirectSR and the game automatically has all XeSS, DLSS, FSR etc
Oh, thanks for the info.
Exactly! This API is a game changer. It allows AMD to make changes to their upscaling technology (to include AI) w/o having to solicit game dev implementation. AMD can push for maximum innovation w/o having to maintain compat with previous revisions.
Obvious this is true with Nvidia but they never had a problem with dev participation or leaving prev. gen behind for the next great technology.
Makes sense, a certain amount of abstract layering to get developers buy in is definitely a lesson learned from history, just look at the PS3 Cell CPU for why it's important.
@@garyb7193nope Nvidia had the same idea with the Streamline API and it was rejected by devs
@@shanent5793 but this is going to be built into DirectX
Whatever nets me the most bang for buck. It's rough out here eating tree bark.
You gotta leave the bark on so the moss can grow. It's much more nutritious
You vill eat ze bugz, und you vill like zem!
Fine, big red play button website, I'll paraphrase my yeeted comment, even though I didn't use a single bad word:
You shall consume the creepy-crawlies, and you'll be allowed to experience joyous emotions.
You guys are eating?
@@Plague_Doc22 Gotta get used to what nature is offering at some point, we can't afford to have generated frames shoved down our throats forever.
If AI fsr is coming to rx7000 series it will be epic
And 6000 series
I'd love it to come to RX 6000 too I own RX 6800 and an software upgrade for the GPU would be awesome
It's coming on ps5 pro wich it's rdna 3 gpu costum
@lord_nem3sis 6000 series doesn't have ai accelerators, only 7000 and newer will have ai upscaling.
@@DwaynedaGamer great. Just bought a 7800XT
Vex making the same "AMD has just now caught up to Nvidia" video every week for a full year now
Tru
yea but they didnt
They never will, AMD is and will always be inferior to Nvidia. This “catchup” game is old and played out.
@@IIaBllI like AMD a lot and I don't think it will always necessarily be behind Nvidia, it depends how they play it out, but what annoys me about AMD is how they're always playing catchup with Intel and Nvidia. They always release their CPUs and GPUs after their competitors, sometimes one year late, and they just copy their technology rather than invent their own. It would be cool if AMD for once released components first and were the ones to innovate on new tech.
@@armathyx AMD will always be behind Nvidia, that is the price they pay for being open source. If anyone with any hardware can use AMD features, they sell less hardware which = they have less money to invest into making better hardware. It all comes down to money, and nvidia has more of it. Mark my words, DLSS 5 or 4.1 or 4.5 whatever it is will probably pop up out of nowhere with the next RTX 5k series cards or maybe a brand new lineup of cards that are called something other than RTX and then FSR will once again be obsolete. This is the problem with AMD, jus when they are finally starting to catch up its already the end of a GPU gen and the next gen comes and they fall behind again. The early bird gets the worm, Nvidia is the early bird.
The only good thing I can say about AMD, is for people on a budget their deals are very good and they are open source which is pro consumer and commendable. For people who want the best of the best though, they more or less won't touch AMD at all.
I think they're going to have normal FSR for 5000 and 6000 cards and AI upscaling on 7000+. It just makes the most sense to me. But that would make me even happier with this 7800 XT.
Same, Im glad I went with a 7800xt instead of a 6950xt
My guess is the AI upscaling requirement will be RX 6800 or above, since GFX1030 is the RDNA2-based LLVM target with HIP SDK requirement for ROCm. It would make no sense for AMD consumer GPU's officially supported by their machine learning platform to then not support AI upscaling. Of course RDNA3 GPU's would perform this more efficiently, but RDNA2 should not be locked out. But RDNA1 would definitely not support it.
If they do that I'm going back to ngreedia. 6000 series is plenty advanced.
@@MiGujack3I would wait for Battlemage and see how that does. Intel has proven they will improve drivers. NVIDIA just dropped GTX and literally all their newer RTX cards are overpriced. If AMD follows suit with the shady business practices then IMO its worth supporting cards that bring back some competition in price-performance.
that makes no sense whatsoever. they'd have to add new AI-specific hardware, wasting GPU real estate
I hope they still focus on open source and wide range of gpus
Do people really expect to take old ass cards and utilise AI upscaling technologies? You have to start somewhere, like nvidia did, and 7000 series is as good as any point. Having a fallback would be nice, but AMD don't have to backhaul every card they made to make this work the same as on a new card.
That's so true I am sorry that this might come across stuck up or whatever but if you're using a damn 580,6600 6800 XT you can't expect much going forward you're on old hardware even people with a 6950XT is now on old RDNA2 hardware.
So yeah if using AI is in their future starting with the 7000 series makes the most sense and if people want better looking FSR they'll need to ditch their old gpu and get a newer one it's simple.
I no longer have my 7900 XTX it was amazing but on my 65 inch monitor you can 100% tell the difference between FSR and DLSS (I know people say you can't maybe not with a smaller screen but with a big one you can easily)
i agree, it's not fair hold back on new technologies and progress because of old hardware, they can't support old hardware forever.
Let's be real for a second. RX 6000 isn't that old and still performs pretty damn well. But where they're lacking is AI cores. The exact specific hardware that's needed for AI upscaling. People need to understand the limits of the hardware. And, in a lot of cases, people are in denial about that. I get it. You spent a lot of money on your card a few years ago and it's still relevant. But the hardware needed for AI simply isn't there.
They do, because the 1080 ti was so damn powerful.
@@user-yv2cz8oj1k Power and capability are not the same. They have the power while lacking the capability.
As long as fsr keeps a no machine learning version then that'd be perfect
They should just have FSR3 be the last FSR and then have a DLFSR as a new brand to be a new tech to build it as new brand so people dont think FSR is worse because of 1,2,3
@@imo098765 no they should obviously still update FSR to let older GPUs without ai cores to still live. The rx5700xt and 1080ti are still capable GPUs.
Improve FSR 3 but at the same time don't get rid of FSR 2. So you have the option to choo$3 between FSR 2 (Legacy) or FSR 3 (with the A.I.)
@@Jakiyyyyy fsr 3 is already non ai and it's also not upscaling. I swear the both companies missed the opportunity for a great naming scheme.
I swear Nvidia and AMD are in cahoots and the AI vs non ai upscaling was the plan from the start. They both make more money when they give each other room to do the best instead of having too fast a release cadence or a price war. That sucks for them both. Working together to maintain the largest overall market value is what is best for both of them. I have no evidence but there is also no evidence in Jesus or God but half the world would kill each other off to prove that they are right. Point is of course there would never be proof but I'd bet anything they are in communication and plan accordingly.
@@christophermullins7163 the majority share holder for both amd and Nvidia is the same company so here's your evidence
All AMD RDNA 2 GPUs have hardware to accelerate AI. They support mixed precision FP16, INT4, INT8, and INT16 matrix operations, the kinds of operations used for AI training and inference
True. Supports ai and ai acceleration is 2 different things I guess.
Yeah I used a 6700xt to do some stable diffusion and training on Linux. And it is slow compared to a 7900GPU But it is not slow compared to a older Nvidia that also support dlss. The real issue on old AMD is that every compute core that get the task of doing AI work is busy and can not work on pixel shader anymore. So it is hard to guess if it is going to be really helpful.
You mean RDNA 3, since the previous generation has no dedicated ML hardware.
@@Ivan-pr7ku No, according to the RDNA 2 Instruction Set Reference: "Dot product ALU operations added accelerate inferencing and deep-learning"
@@shanent5793Well, Pascal also supports DP4a, but it's wasn't advertised with particular AI capabilities.
I mean, if I buy a GPU powerful enough to not need upscaling, does it matter? But anyway, even if some of the stuff Nvidia has is better than AMD, some of the stuff AMD has is better than Nvidia. Since I give no shits about RT yet, and I actually don't think FSR 2.1 or 2.2 looks as bad at 1440p and up that the internet keeps telling me it does, I did upgrade a second time to a new AMD card. I just don't want to lose the software features and driver package they offer. Stuff like having overclocking and undervolting built into Adrenaline and things like Radeon Chill, which is great in games. Went from a 1080 Ti to a 6800 for three years, and now to a 7900 XTX, and feeling no regrets.
Still needs upscaling if you care about high framerate.
But, then again you're likely not running RT features, without that perhaps. But I do like RT and high fps. So, noting is really powerful enough.
Honestly it really isn’t bad , unless you play a game to really put textures under a microscope and pay attention to every little detail, most of the time I just want 60fps on a single play game and I’m happy and it looks good , comp games I don’t care about textures , I have a 6800xt and I’m very content with it , I used to have a problem with upscaling but now I’m ok with it not because AMD is doing better just the fact it’s going to be part of every game so might as well take advantage of it . I feel you on that
@@SlyNine yeah , for now I don’t care about RT , if I did I would’ve gone to nvidia just for that but honestly I think both companies do have really great products and I use and like both , I don’t have a brand loyalty like a smoker who only likes Marlboro reds , I’m more of a if it fits my budget and needs then I’ll get it
@@AzSureno when I had a RTX 2070 Super, I didn't care about RT. But, now that I have upgraded to a 4090, I do care. Why? Because now I can see how good it looks with high framerate. It's one of those features that you finally get to use as intended and you see how great it is. You didn't care when you couldn't use it to its potential, but now that you can, it's awesome. Funny how that works.
@@ThisGuyDrives But you still can't use it to it's full potential, even spending $2000. "Full potential" has to be high refresh rate at Native. The need of Upscaling and frame generation degrades image quality, that is just facts. The 4090 requires all the help to achieve a high refresh rate.
Best bang for Buck was always the way. If the software package is best as well, even better. I paid $300 for a 6800XT so I don't have to rely on any upscaling, and RT's always off anyways.
How'd you get a 6800XT cheaper than a 7600 non-xt?
@@Gamcoaster i got new 6950 XT for $420
@@christophermullins7163 the cheapest I see is above $900. That's essentially more than double of what you got.
You think it's bad to use upscaling? Even though it's improved a lot?
@@Gamcoaster There was a time here in Germany when 6950XTs where 500€, like a clearance sale basically
AMD's in-driver Fluid motion frames is a great feature for a guy like me with a RX 6600. I tried it in Alan Wake II and it works really good with one minor fps drop for a couple of seconds ,and I hope this feature gets better over time.
Just a reminder that Intel said they would open source XeSS on launch, and mentioned it multiple times after launch, yet XeSS is still closed source...
and we should never let them live it down
I mean neither Intel nor Amd has an alternative to Nvidia's Ray Reconstruction either.
They really need to work on this to compete.
So would this AL enabled upscaling be compatible with the 7000 series, or should I wait for the 8000 series to have it exclusively???
Would be better to see an AMD upscaler on par with DLSS
Dude FSR3 in Dying Light 2 with LukeFZ is mindblowing. FSR3, the way it is right now, in every game, would be more than enough.
My Guess is this will be for 7000 series and above.
yes, because only 7000 series has the necessary AI accelerators. 6000 series doesnt have that, so they're gonna be stuck with the shitty form of FSR
Hey Vex! What are those headphones? Meze 99 Classics?
If FSR's functionality remains as is for older gen cards/non AMD cards, but then 7000 series and any future cards have AI upscaling enabled, I really don't see the issue.
Yes, FSR is kinda doodoo, but if you're using an AMD or even nvidia gpu from 5 years ago and you have the option to be able to use it and get a bit more life out of your tech before absolutely NEEDING to upgrade, I think that's a pretty sweet deal. Even if the quality isn't AS good as if it were DLSS, but it's not like nvidia is really giving you that option either.
Yeah, your comment would make sense if Intel didn't release XeSS, which in my opinion is less noticeable while gaming than FSR
I do wish FSR was better. But that $200 difference is no joke.
For features like RT in there current state I don’t care for whatsoever. RT just looks worse and I don’t see how people can justify it. Smeary and blurry mess, not to mention the performance hit.
Dude I have no idea what games you play where RT looks blurry but you might have other issues if thats the case
Rt doesn't seem worth it at all. In a few years when we get path tracing at 144fps without up scaling then we might be cooking
you should try cyberpunk 2077's path tracing, if that doesn't convince you then I suggest getting those eyes checked.
the "blurry" part is probably the result of some compromise that exchanges quality for performance .. the hardware definitely is still lacking raw power to deliver stuff with true full scene raytracing .. once the hardware arrives that can do it there will be a land-slide shift in the industry .. we are still in the build up phase .. Ray-tracing is nice but while the tech is here the performance delivered needs to improve.
Only pt seems to have major palpable effects but you need a 4070 ti super minimum to utilize them properly
It is not palatable for anyone who recently bought an expensive GPU to be motivated to replace it with something with tensor cores or equivalent. One thing I learned about tensor cores is it uses less power than GPU cores because they are FP8 unlike a GPU which are FP32. That means physically they occupy a very small percentage on a GPU chip. The solution is to sell a separate card that is for AI.
is the background music at 6:30 from pokemon? i swear it sounds familiar
?
what's the game show in first in fsr?
Does this mean us, RX 6000 users will get an A.I upgrade??
Radeon 5000 user here
No
@RAM_845 may be it will work like xess but will run slower than fsr 2.
Most likely no, only rx 7000 series have ai accelerators in them
6000 series doesn't have ai parts in them
I never thought that people would ever be excited to play games at lower resolution. Even with fake frames. Alas, here we are.
It's because GPUs are vastly overpriced and developers don't give a crap about optimizing their games.
@@bnolsen upscaling is an optimization tool, relying on upscaling is optimizing
sure rn it makes the game look worse, in the future games will look as good if not better, look at early TAA, it looked terrible, but modern TAA looks just as if not better then legacy anti aliasing methods, TAA started looking terrible and in some cases still does, but as devs learned how to used it and more importantly design assets with TAA in mind it started looking better and better
all forms of optimization start looking bad, often much worse then upscaling currently does, but as devs learn the tool and the tool gets better games will look better as a result
its a new tool for optimization, were going to be excited for it, many people try and say relying on upscaling is lazy, but upscaling is an optimization tool, before upscaling devs relied on dynamic resolution, which is an objectively inferior option to upscaling
many people think games are less optimized now, but we are half way through a new console generation, now is the time were seeing games only on modern consoles, those games will be harder to run, consoles are the baseline, devs target consoles because thats where most players will be (PC technically has more players but not all of them have powerful PCs, someone playing Counterstrike 1.6 on a dell optiplex from 2008 is technically a PC gamer and counts towards the statistics) so a game is optimized well if it runs well on consoles
A lot of PC players need to get it through their thick skulls that modern consoles are powerful, about on par with the 3060, so if your GPU isn't vastly above that, which statistically it isn't, you should not be expecting more than console performance, but anything under I'd say a 3090 shouldn't expect vastly better then console performance, better for sure, but not vastly, if a game is well optimized (which most actually are on PC when you compare to their console counterparts) if you want double the FPS, you'd probably need over double the power (consoles run operating systems with many more built in optimizations allowing the hardware to be pushed more efficiently then PC hardware) so a modern game that hits 60FPS on console, you'd need at least a 4080 to get 120fps at console visuals, 4090 to push 120fps at max settings (all dependent on resolution obviously but the PS5 tends to render games at around 1440p)
People were always excited to play at a lower resolution if it meant they can try a new game before buying new hardware. Now thanks to the inference accelerators (or as the marketing types like to call it, "AI" "chips") the reduced resolution can look way less crappy, sometimes even better than native. Also, all frames are fake. They're generated by a computer after all. At least the path-traced ones are mathematically true to some extent, but most of games utilize anything from smoke and mirrors up to the famous "evil floating point bit level hacking" to give you a believable experience at an acceptable framerate. The infinite-FPS, infinite resolution, non-upscaled path traced stereoscopic experience is currently available only in theatres (the ones with stages, curtains and actors, not cinemas).
@flamingscar5263 TAA still is worse. Anything that downgrades or washes out the sharpness of the game or the view distance is a big nono.
It doesn't matter if DLSS is better if I can't see the fence in the distance. This is not optimisation and also the resolution slider is not optimisation. It's the opposite.
What does the game Dev doing? Just FSR and DLSS on the game and it's now optimised? Hahaha, no man. Even with DLSS look at cyberpunk as an example. 4080, 4k , High settings with RT and DLSS + FG. What do you think you will get with quality mode. 30 fps 😂 and that is 30 for a district that is not extremely hard on the HW.
I recently just switched to 4K and DLSS really helped to make the transition.
My son uses the 6950 XT Red Devil daily and sometimes turning ON FSR the frame rate like barely increases, sometimes not at all
CPU too weak
@@vladvah77 Oh come on, he only 11 years old. Surely a 7700X is plenty for a last generation 6950 XT.
damn he's lucky
@@Kapono5150If it doesn't increase it's either a CPU bottleneck or you are super sampling instead of upscaling.
It's very simple there will be 2 pathways for fsr upscaling 1. Will be the current way it is now that can be used on anything and 2. Having a better looking version that leverages the ai cores in 7000 series similar to what intel does with xess and their dp4a pathway they have and I personally don't see a problem with them going this route
Problem is AMD probably will not want to do the DP4a version.
I Mean dp4a version hits performance alot, theyrw😢current fsr doesn't
i love the casual cat invasion
I also saw his dog suddenly show up on his bed 😆
To throw my hat in the ring here - I'm fine with them moving to some form of AI upscaling, I think the important thing is that AMD doesn't abandon the FSR 2 and 3 pipeline. So you can have a GPU agnostic AI upscaler that's developed by AMD, AND you've got the old upscaler as a fallback. Seems very doable. It's pretty reasonable AMD telling users to upgrade, as long as FSR is still available you don't *need* to upgrade and they've offered killer value on 6000 series, gotta get people to upgrade from their 6700 XT's and 6800 non-XT's somehow.
Still, gonna be interesting to see if they can leverage the mindshare they've gained into users upgrading. It's all about the pricing, the only thing that's gotten AMD this far other than ethical business practices (which is nice, but Nvidia is cutthroat) is value and pricing. If they're gonna have a 1080ti moment like Nvidia, they need to offer 1080ti value, power and longevity.
Is it gonna wirk on 1050?
i have a 6950xt and tried fsr in some games but it just looks not good and the performance increase in not much so i play every game on native 2k
The funny thing for me is always, sure, if you slow it down to 25% zoom in 300% and give me a pointer where im supposed to look i can actually see artefacts that differ between upscalers, but if you dont do that i just dont see the difference. Yes youtube compression and all that BUT there was literally ONE instance where i saw artefacting and that was in Jedi Survivor one of the overhead climbing grill thingy in a certain angle. The only reason i saw it was because i was watching and not playing. Same goes for Ray tracing, i found one scene in Cyberpunk where i was able to notice a difference. Im not saying the differences dont matter, im not saying they dont exist, im just saying i stopped caring about it because its rather obvious that for me it does not impact the enjoyability of gaming so i might just not care about it.
tbh its easy to tell the differences between FSR and DLSS without a slow down and zoom in. FSR is just pure shit tbh while DLSS is acceptable on most games.
@@lilpain1997 With normal footage, side by side, i also don't see the difference. With still frames sure. or moving when zoomed 200% (300% is a bit extreme) guess it depends from person to person
With ray-tracing off and on side by side however is see it immediately. (but only side by side)
And when they showed extreme up-scaling side by side 720p -> 4K (3x3) i also noticed it immediately (i would notice that even when it was not side by side)
IMO, you are 100% correct. If I'm playing something, I'm too immersed in the game to notice these little things that don't actually change how much fun the game is for me
damn i recently switched from a 7900XTX to a 4080 Super mainly for DLSS, and now FSR might finally catch up lol
As much as love AMD and am hoping that the underdog lands a surprising uptick in image quality.. let's be real.. it won't be as good when it releases.
Nah you’re all good. You got a beast of a card, enjoy it. Don’t get caught up with all these performance metrics and price to performance.
It wont catch up, it will be their first AI upscaling tech while Nvidia will likely push out DLSS 4.0 by then which = far better. DLSS is already far ahead compared to FSR even in FSRs best implementation Avatar it still looks poor enough to not want to use it. Either way enjoy your card, I personally wouldnt have moved over seeing as the 7900xtx is a great card ( although power draw is horrendous ) but you do you.
Good choice, nvidia is better
@@heroicsquirrel3195I wouldn't say better ngl both has advantages and disadvantages
Hey, I actually use FSR whenever available. Most of the time I couldnt even tell the difference because Im gaming on the couch from a distance. Except of course when FSR throws random unstable image that definitely shows FSR is on.
There will be still software based FSR for 6000 series and below and then the 7000 series will get Accelerated FSR
I rather get raw raster performance than having to think about upscaling
@@NoSkillsBroI would rather it not tbh
I rather get both. Keep going on optimizing games and rerease GPU more powerful than ever, and improve upscaling to add more stuff or doing it in a more power-efficient way
Gpu's already have the hardware to accelerate AI tasks included, why not utilize it?
@@Goejii I think the upscaling is useful for older gpus to stay relavent for longer, but it shouldn't be the bread and butter for the latest gpus
u do understand rasterization has its limits and graphics cant really advance much without the need of upscaling since we are limited by our current hardware
I disagree with the focus on upscaling, basically giving game devs more opportunities to be lazy in their optimization. A well optimized game performs well even on older hardware, meanwhile a horribly optimized game, NEEDS some help, like DLSS or FSR or even XESS... It's just sad imo on how it's going. Before we relied on upscalers, we still had amazing looking games(with or without ray tracing) for very playable performance as long as the devs actually put some time into optimization.
Excellent. That's why older titles are the greatest anyway.
MOVE ON
I couldn't tell? what about the backpack in motion?. my eyesights screwed btw. And I just took my VR headset off lol. But I cannot tell the difference in your side by sides. maybe I'm getting old. But FSR 2 and 3 looks great to me
TH-cams compression algorithm destroys any visual comparison one can make. Using it in person however, you can see the big difference
Just tried out the new warzone update and I saw FSR3 with frame gen and I got so excited cuz I own a gtx 1080. I saw a good 25-40fps increase
Yes AMD is always so behind on this stuff yet they wrote the X64 standard. Duh
It doesn't matter whether or not AMD's upscaler works well, or not, or is backwards compatible or not... I will not buy another Nvidia GPU... AMD has graphics cards that, simply work, and they work well enough, for a reasonable price.
Nvidia scams their customers, with overpriced experimental tech... I actually bought the rtx 2080 ti, and i had performance issues with that thing since day 1, and while the driver issues got ironed out eventually, the hardware and software issues still cucked its performance... the %-lows were so sht, dude, it's not even funny, every single game was choppy... All that crap, just for raytracing capabilities, which didn't even look good? Absolute scam...
The only reason i bought that rtx 2080 ti is because Nvidia discontinued SLI-support, so my GTX 690's in SLI stopped working, so i could only run games with one 690 at a time... So they artificially made my old setup obsolete, just so they could force me to buy a new GPU (strike 1), said new GPU being overpriced AND experimental, they basically tricked me into PURCHASING a product that was still in beta (strike 2)... and then less than a year later, the next generation GPU's were already out, performed better than my 2080, and were cheaper (strike 3).
Yeah nah, Nvidia pissed away ALL my good will with those 3 strikes.
I swapped to AMD, and i have had nothing but smooth sailing with this GPU since day 1, best gaming bliss i've ever had since my dual 690's. :)
My RX6800XT will do me just fine, i don't NEED raytracing, and i don't NEED FSR or DLSS... I'm good right where i am, with good, old-fashioned regular graphics card, ol' reliable. :)
This has been kind of known for a while. It was one of the selling points of the 7000 series cards "Future tech"
Vex, can you test FSR on AMD vs Nvidia DLSS image quality? this should be a nice comparison.
Do i do anything wrong ? I mean i tried dlss many tunes at many resolutions and many games, i tried all but even on alan wake at 1440p it looks bad it looked blurry as hell, i was on quality dlss, so, why do people say its any good when for me it is just a blurry mess
I'm confused. Isn't their "Liquid frame motion" tech not A.I. generated frames?
Fallback layer didn't have to be slower if correctly programmed.
Wonder if they could add an FSR implementation that doesn't require upgrading every generation. If it doesn't need more info.. could automatically upgrade it or just use available info. Really seems like it could be built to be enabled for all games to an extent.
Whats happen with DLSS 3.5 and 3000 Nvdia Series, exactly nothing is wrong with it. Is it a problem with AMD and normal with nVidia?
what is the point here?
what mic does he use? I have been searching for it
Shure MV7
My understanding is TSR isn’t an upscaler itself but sort of an API so programmers can code for all three upscalers at once. I could be misinterpreting though.
Risk of Rain 2 music in the BG my beloved
I run at 4K though, FSR is almost indistinguishable from native. Then again I think any up-scaling is hard to tell at 4K.
I do 4K but I see shimmer in starfield and cyberpunk. I stopped playing them because of it but avatar looks. Perfect!!!!!! Perfect frame gen and upscaling!! so I know it’s possible be absolutely incredible in every game
Unfortunately Ubisoft ruined fame gen in the latest patch.
But you're right it was the best implementation of fsr 3 and frame gen to date. 4k 100+ fps on 7900xtx and super smooth. @@FrostyBud777
Well, I think they should make use of the 7000 series AI Cores, because they are unused value of these graphic cards. While I think new technologie is more important then downwards compatibility I would realy like to get such upgrade to my 6800 XT aswell. A note or a question, how can you like xess, it just looks blurry for me.
I SEE THAT DRAGONSPIRAL TOWER POKEMON MUSIC YOU SNUCK IN das so cool
As an owner of a laptop with a 4060, i have never used dlss or rt on it up to this point, i just dont play new games and if i play new games like cs2 i have up to this point used fsr in it only
I just built a system with 7800xt and 7800x3d it’s been a massive upgrade from my i59400f and rx580 but I don’t use dlss or fsr but it would be a nice improvement if it were added
I'd be happy with simple integer scaling from 1080p (or even 720p) to 2160p as long as the HUD and menus are in 4K. DLSS is cool, but not without drawbacks, and I wish we had more upscaling options in more games.
In cyberpunk dlss quality vs performance at 4k is so close to the same visuals it’s absolutely worth the better frames over quality
still wondering on when Microsoft DirectML will debut as it's supposed to be an AI upscaler that is brand agnostic so it's expected to work on all GPU brands I even heard they were gonna be having in built in on Windows 11.
I have Windows 10 IoT enterprise since it has 10 more years support compared to the others with 5 years support. Hopefully they implement on there as well. Worse comes to worst and it's not, Windows 11 IoT enterprise comes out this year. It's basically the most minimalist version of windows which I like. The less running in the background, the better.
edit: I should say if it's better than FSR...
it's already been shown to be on a early access version of Windows 11 or at least parts of it and 22H2 is the last version of Windows 10 so I highly doubt it's gonna be supported on Windows 10 @@RideTheSkies
i hope that my rx7900txt THAT I JUST GOT can use the upscaler
DLSS only works for me at 2.8k or 4k, and my new (old, bought last year, not even 1 year old) 3060 Ti can't handle it at high settings. DLSS (quality) at 1440p renders the games at 900p, and yeah, the loss in image quality annoys me.
6:24 its probly just for leveling the playingfield if you buy a new gpu. So i would guess that regular 6000 series wil just use none ai FSR.
nobody would be forcing you to buy an upgrade to 7000. I would just exspect ai capable crads to use ai FSR by default.
Has AMD fixed the wattage consumption on some of their cards? If so i would love to switch. Ive always wanted to use their clipping software. (I think it’s relive??)
I mean, their cards use more power than Nvidia cards... typically because they offer more raw power ;)
They have made nice improvements over the last few years, a card could use like up to 200W for a big high profile card of theirs... whereas Nvidia has managed to make their cards use as low as like 90W... BUT, the Nvidia cards have lower bandwidth, less memory, work on lower PCI-e protocols, have less raw power... they put all their fruits in one basket which is THEIR AI TENSOR CORES that use less energy.
Tl;dr: AMD cards use more power but with better performance (because of more raw power), but Nvidia has more gimmicky AI features to make up for their lack of pure performance... It's a trade-off and you should choose one or the other depending on what's more important to you ;)
Personnally, I chose AMD for my first build, and I'm having a good time with it.
@@theocramezthank you for the insight king. it will be useful to me as I gear to eventually upgrade to a 1440p OLED build, especially with games asking for more VRAM these days I think I’ll go with AMD. Nothing is set in stone, but I’ve been a fan of AMD since I was 14, I think it’s time to buy some merchandise 🫡
@@junyaiwase More VRAM intensive use cases fit pretty well with AMD cards indeed ahah, glad I helped you!
@@theocramezdoes AMD have any problem with discord streaming? That problem always pushes me back from AMD GPUs
Hmmmmm this is gonna be fun, Im building a new pc late this year so I have time to see how this plays out. I am thinking of RX 7900 XTX vs 4080 Super... I will keep a VERY open eye on this tech they will make.
6:00 good pokemon black & white music😢
DirectSR isn't a new upscaler. It's a way to simplify implementation of various upscaler within games by developers
One of the reasons I got an AMD GPU last year was that I wanted as much performance _without_ upscaling as possible for my money. If I get better upscaling for cases where it's really needed then that's appreciated I guess, but I'd rather get back to rendering natively with good performance. I'm just tired of having to check which games have support for which upscaler, on which generation of hardware from a certain company, often with tiny graphical improvements over older games.
This is a very very good example video that speaker doesn't know what he is talking but he knows very limited and surface understanding of what he is talking. However, he knows games.
I really like the price/performance of my amd card and also the open source nature of amd in general. Would better FSR really help that? idk
We need more competition , so they keep improving these technologies!
your succulent at 6:33 needs more sunlight its struggling bro.
Is there a future where we rent out our home pc for AI processing, if it has the capability of course?
FSR with AI upscalig will be a huge game changer depending on which two routes AMD goes for. Going the XeSS route would mean it'll be a lot easier to make the graphics look good despite not putting much work on the AI while DLSS with FSR already has proof of concept that it works really well but it still has the same problems FSR 3 has right now. I personally think going the XeSS route would be a lot better since AMD already implemented computing cores similar to CUDA into their GPUs so setting that up would be a good bit easier and AMD already have DP4a path to test on to see what can work to upscale better with less AI and computing stress
I honestly wouldn’t mind if they released a version of FSR for the 7000 series that’s separate from the 6000 and 5000, BUT I would not want them to discontinue the older FSR (as in the 6 and 5000 series FSR)
I feel like ai powered fsr would be very useful on handhelds like the steam deck
I mean, it makes a lot of sense for them to use AI upscaling with dedicated hardware on newer cards, and fall back to not using it on other cards etc. Isn't that exactly how Intel does it with XeSS? I think that's a cool route to go down.
DirectSR will not be an additional upscaler. DirectSR will just be an API (an Interface so to speak) to communicate with the different upscalers on a unified base, so that dev's don't have to worry about the different implementations as much.
6:07 thanks for calling me out there, I've been using a RX 5700 as my only GPU since April 2020. Even if AMD really went and said "you'll need to upgrade to use these features", I am planning in getting a RX 7800 XT. This will feel like changing from one car to another
I just finally made the jump from a Nitro+ 5700XT that I've had since early 2020 to a Nitro+ 7900GRE and I am very glad that I did. Its a great upgrade and IMO now is the perfect time to make a move for those of us coming from a 5700 level of performance. I intended to hold out for the 8800XT as that will likely be a very good buy when it releases, but the surprise 7900GRE being released worldwide was my sign to just do it.
It is a nice bonus to also be able to enable real RT now though I will probably still be leaving it off in many games as it is just not worth the performance hit most of the time, especially for someone like me who much prefers to push for more pixels and fidelity than higher frames. I am happy with 60 or 75fps (the Hz of each of my monitors) and I would rather bump up the resolution (or use less upscaling to run at 4K) than have slightly (IMO) better lighting/shadows/reflections with RT. I find at this level of performance simply turning off some or all RT options can be the difference of using no upscaling at all to run otherwise maxed out 4K native in some games or less aggressive upscaling in others.
There are some really good implementations of FSR. I say this as an owner of nvidia and amd cards
I like how Nvidia, AMD and Intel are pushing each other in the GPU market. Competition is the cause, innovation is the effect.
All they have to do is keep FSR and have the AI upscaler as a separate Uspcaler. Then everyone can use fsr 3 but only 7000 series can use the AI one
They could follow the intel model, or push a new version of fsr/a new upscaler altogether, they desperately need a better upscaling
Considering that AFMF is exclusive to 6000 and 7000 series cards and HYPR-RX is 7000 exclusive, I can see them having exclusive FSR 3 Frame Gen features and upscaling options.
They could make it so that people with 7000 series will benefit from AI with a better upscaled image that's more refined but other people will still be able to utilize FSR like they do today simply without the image being enhanced by AI. This will fully uitilize new GPUs and make FSR better without impacting it's compatibility. I'd say it is actually a smart move. You basically get more without losing anything.
why not use a smaller ai to help fsr3.0 to help it to upscale (hybrid upscale)
It gonna make choosing between best value last gen AMD card vs more costly newer gen harder, like say rx6800 non xt vs 7700xt
The limit with DP4A is that the cards still need to support it.
I have no idea on the Nvidia cards but with AMD Vega cards and below do not support DP4A. I belive the exception is the RADEON VII, which so I have heard does support DP4A
I didn't realize you had a dog in your bed until it started moving - a dogs life is not easy.
reason i like FSR is cause my GTX 1650 feels like it can run games well like it helps me play a bunch of games that if i dont use FSR it'll just give me like 10-20 fps and so FSR giving me like 60-70 fps is insane in some games and thats why im praying FSR gets better and better allowing us low end graphic cards to pump more performance out our low end PCs
FSR being better remains to be seen. And even if it is, Nvidia users can still use FSR anyway so its a moot point.
CTO "Mark PAPERMASTER" lmfaooo
Take notice that they said "Enable"
To enable something, it needs to be there already, in a disabled state, so that they can "enable" it.
The recently announced FSR 3.1 is going to be a game-changer for those of us with RTX3000 series cards. FSR 3.1 decouples the frame generation from the upscaler, meaning we can have DLSS Upscaling with AMD's Frame generation.
gen 5 music in the background lol
My gripe is with CUDA. I don't game much but I engage with CUDA utilizing 3D workloads most of the time.
I believe the DirectSR is for devs. Implementing it allows for DLSS, FSR, XeSS implementation without needing to add each one separately. I could be wrong but that's my current understanding of it.
I know I’m late to this video but the excitement of AMD doing a XESS styled FSR it’s a unique concept to think what they can do if they make the tech Open Source just like their other FSR versions the power to drag and drop it in would be easier then DLSS and maybe giving it the ability to learn Faster or Better than DLSS just by allowing the community to join in on the AI training process and of course for things outside of your usual games like on Emulators using that over FSR 1.0 would help with both better performance and picture quality
i honestly cant tell the difference half the time. i dont think ive ever enabled DLSS or FSR on any of my rigs unless it was a default setting. My main pc right now is my first all AMD build and have never had any complaints. I just recently bought a A770 for my mini ITX media pc and was pleasantly surprised with it for the cost and my other pc that I havent used in ages has a 3070ti which I specifically bought for DLSS and RT capability and never could see a difference in the games I played. Unless you are standing still staring at a scene I cant tell if it on.
I’m very hopeful that intel can bring some real competition in the cpu and gpu market. Going to wait for some real competition before I decide to buy a graphics card.
Only reason I won't swap is raytracing but man did the vram make me debate it for a while