From HERO to ZERO: When Good FLIGHT Instructors Go Bad!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2023
- TRUE STORY! My friend went from hero to zero when he turned from a good flight instructor to bad, in a split second!
Not the best example for the RAF flight instructor to set, BUT the lesson was learnt!
Life lessons from the world of aviation, brought to you by a former RAF fighter pilot.
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“Life is too short not to be accountable to other men” - Tim Davies. That’s going in the book. Truth - love it mate.
One of the most precious remarks I had from an instructor has stuck with me. "learn from the mistakes of others because you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Very true indeed.
Could be a slogan for some merch there "You fu*ked it, you un-fu*k it"
Definitely t shirt worthy
+1
By the same token isn't the instructor abandoning his own responsibilities? He f*cked it, but instead of unf*cking it he f*cked off back home :D
I had two Golden Rules in both the Military and Civilian Police. The first rule when given a task only report back to your supervisor when (either) the task was completed or a decision needed making that was above your pay grade. The second rule and the most important was if you messed up and made a mistake “Do not lie” just throw your hands up and accept responsibility 👌
The old adage " Bullshit baffles Brains " only works if the person your saying to has bullshit for brains .
So when something goes to shit (whether or not it's your fault) you don't even let your supervisor know until it's sorted? Doesn't sound like a clever idea to me. You can give feedback on problems and even (god forbid!) ask for help while still maintaining responsibility
I was 19 years old back in 90/91 and did my cross country to convert back from the US PPL to the UK one. I think I flew from Manchester airport with an instructor to some airport in Liverpool then south towards maybe Shrewsbury-ish or Oswestry and across to Welshpool. All using a map, compass and clock. Going back to Liverpool I got distracted and probably forgot to start the clock and all of a sudden noticed a Dunlop type bridge at Oulton Park (I think) which was a bit of a shock. It's amazing how fearless we are when we're young I would never try that today at my age.
As soon as an instructor/examiner asks the same thing twice you've done something wrong
Yep the student should learn to take a hint .
Reminds of the corridor method of instruction where the instructor briefs the student to go running down the corridor as fast as he can and when he gets to the end turn left and keep running. The student does exactly as briefed by the instructor and when he turns left there is a brick wall in front of him which he ends up impaling himself knocking out two teeth and ending up with a black eye. The instructor then says to him "Well you won't do that again, will you?"
Straight away as a CO he would be in my office an dressed down.
That is unacceptable leaving a student like that.
Never had that on our Tactical weapons unit at Brawdy. Then again
we had older and more experienced instructors.
Sadly standards appear to have dropped since my days.
I saw a wonderful example of "positive stroking" as we called it, 20+ years ago.
The instructor and student were discussing technique in the debrief. Things hadn't gone well, it was tense.
The student says something along the lines of "Yeah, I appreciate there are different ways to achieve this."
The instructor snaps.
"No ###, there's a right way and a wrong way. You're doing it the f@cking wrong way!"
I still laugh now.
Right! Learn to do it the tried & trusted way and prove you can do it before you start getting creative. Even the Beatles knew that
Just like being back in the crewroom! You can keep those tales coming Tim!
I saw you’d replied to my question about cutting out the booze on a previous film, and it’s now printed off and in key locations to deter the purchase/consumption. Thank you.
I've done a huge amount of flying solo over much of the world's least friendly terrain, oceans, deserts, rain-forest, mountains and the arctic..oh yes, and war-zones.. I learned very quickly the lesson you're relating here. Get it sorted/ If you panic you die./ Deal with it.
Cheers dits
I saw a great line the other day. 'We were a nation of meritocracy but fast turning into mediocrity.' Afraid to challenge poor performance or someone's unsuitability to do something because of a fear of being called out as a bully etc.
Well put indeed.
Agree
The River Wye is insanely beautiful, particularly on those stretches around Symonds Yat. I distinctly recall being sat on a sand berm in the ME, after a particular tough couple of weeks, thinking how beautiful and green our Great British countryside is, and to never take that for granted. I don't.
Yes, to be honest, that's why I never went to the ME to earn the big money - if you woke up one day with cancer, having spent years away from England, you'd never forgive yourself.
Very funny indeed! And now I know what you'll tell me next time I get lost on the way to the range! 😂
Hilarious story and what a classic line . It is true Instructors can have a bad day , I was on my ERD ( Emergency Response Driver ) re-cert . And of cause after some class work and run through the rules and the emphasis of don't get red mist and angry at other drivers when they do some thing stupid and to remain calm . Off we went driving in a Saxon fire engine , not even put the blue lights and sirens on yet . I was going down hill passing a load of parked cars on my right when a bin lorry coming up the hill decided he wasn't going to wait for me to pass . So calmy I checked the footpath and slowed down and said " im mounting the pavement to move over " which I did . Eventually the bin lorry approaches and my instructor launches himself across my side hanging out of my window swearing and giving plenty of hand gestures at the bin lorry driver . A great start to the day I think you will agree and it was very silent inside that cab for the next ten minutes . I did look back at my co-driver who was pissing his sides which then made me want to laugh but you know you can't as your being assessed . Still passed though so I can't have been that bad .
That's an almost better story than Tim's !
A risky tactic as an instructor. My main gripe teaching on light aircraft, was those who couldn’t be assed to even read the book on the lesson we were going to fly beforehand - expensive at £100+ an hour . And I’m learning a new Boeing so I’m the green horn, I take the instructors ideas and pretend I’d thought of them 😂
Yer not Ideal. But he didn't abandon some complete novice student. By the time the students are learning how to do war in the Hawk jet, flying it tactically and using its weapons, they're already qualified and used to flying the Hawk jet in normal flying conditions. The reason the student will have got lost, will have been information overload due to all the simultaneous rapid pace multitasking tactical stuff he had to concentrate on, as well as flying the jet. Take away that tactical stuff, calm his brain down, and the student would've very quickly figured out where he was again and flown back to base fine on his own.
We need more 'inside' stories like this Tim. This made me start the weekend with a good laugh. I now know what to tell my apprentice when he f**ks things up! lol. Definitely need that slogan on a T-Shirt or Mug.
Yes Tim. Put that out as a Tee shirt merch you'll sell thousands!
Thank you, respectfully, sir.
Too true. That's how I run my business, people with responsibility have to take it, not just the the salary for it.
Exactly that, great work - I wish more people were like you 💯👍
That made me laugh, Iv needed a laugh for a few months!!! Cheers Tim
Entertaining story, and you are absolutely right about accountability. Both to others and to yourself. Nice one Tim!
That one hits home Tim & made me laugh out loud - (ex sooty chief)
It does help. Thank you.
Great story as told by mr smith from the matrix. pleased the algorithm recommended your channel.
Someone's a success "Wow, look what I did!"
Someone's a failure: "Someone else did this to me!"
Good story, Tim. I had a similar situation in a PC-9 as a 2FTS student back in 2004 in the RAAF. I was on a low level solo nav plugging along at around 240 KIAS at 250 ft. Weather all ahead of me was deteriorating at the same time as the terrain was rising and I had to just gtfo out so pulled back to about 60 degrees nose up into the flight levels and then made my way home via an ILS.
Went on to fly the J model. You and I did some BFM in DCS a while back.
Similar to a comment in the 80's BBC series 'Fight pilot', when the student is getting 'lost' in bad weather... and asks the instructor "What do you want me to do now sir"... instructor replies "just go ahead and crash" ! 😁
Cracking story!
I like these country walks !
Think I might have posted this before, but Tim's talk reminded me about the book "Extreme Ownership - How U.S Navy SEALs Lead and Win". It is a very good read on the subject of taking accountability. Highly recommend you read it.
Great 👍🏻 thanks for sharing
That’s awesome - great story and good lesson!
This! Is exactly what i was talking about 👌🏻 Thx Tim
I guess if the student is good enough to fly solo, he is capable of un-fucking the situation and at least flying home alone :-0 What makes you think, though, is the velocity over the ground and the crazy distances you can cover in minutes coupled with a finite fuel load…before you even consider navigating with a map, compass and stopwatch to boot….in bad weather…or at night.
Excellent that's going in my bank of smart replies for future use 110%! I have to deal with too many muppets on a daily basis, it's gonna be fun!
Good story Tim.
I was taught early in my Police career by an old Sergeant - don't come to me with a problem. Give me a problem and a solution...
Amongst other training words of wisdom from another Sgt. I received was, "Don't be a dull c**t"
Love this new format. Great Work Tim.
Brilliant story Tim. A good life lesson on accepting that you are accountable for your actions or lack thereof lol
I loved the bit halfway though this where you pointed out where the River Wye was. (Not getting lost in a Hawk but then getting lost on the walk talking about it would have been great).
That’s some beautiful country you’re walking through. It’s good to get out and breathe.
A gem!
Good on him. Theres simply no time, he knew he was good enough to get back.
Excellent Tim; I have an exact surgical corollary to your story. Same principles. Enjoying your channel.
Brilliant Tim!!!
I did same with PPL skill test candidate. Got himself temporary unsure of position, wanted to bail out. I said no you have to sort it out and find out where you are. A passenger, me is relying on you to get me home. He finally fixed his position and completed the test ok. Got his licence. He has been a Virgin capt. for some years now.
Not quite the same as totally abandoning a colleague though. Where's the team spirit.
He wasn't a colleague, he was a student - they have to be able to fail in a controlled environment before they go to the frontline.
I spent seven years on 19 as an engineer (BRAMA and BBCOCK); this instructor was a legend, and they all were. Different times, different ethos, and different men!
It's interesting because I try and explain to people the trust we had in our engineers, lineys etc but they don't ever understand. I think those old days are well and truly over, I'm glad I didn't stay and tarnish the memories, we were lucky weren't we?!
I am not sure I want to know what BBCOCK meant 🤣
I'm on 19sqn now , after we retired the hawks and moved to air defense . Interesting to link a bit of evolution there .
The MOD is not about "Defence" sadly, they are the real aggressors, you will realise this one day when you get older
@@billb7876 wtf are you talking about 19 squadron literally operate UK air defense radars lmao , we dont even have aircraft xD
Thank you.
A great story…and a lovely sunflower field you were walking by 🥰😂
Refreshing....love it
Purely from your impression of the instructor, I reckon I know who you're on about 😂
Brilliant story….! ❤
Great video
2:37 “I had better turn around I suppose” yep, I think you should, before you get lost ! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks for the heart, I guess the subliminal compliment is I would only have picked up on it second time around. I think I am up to viewing number four now, funniest thing I have watched for a long time, facial expressions just enhance it as well. I certainly have a new quote in life now. Finally, the serious message contained within was not missed either. Good Job 👍
Thank you for that tale. I suppose we must all of us try to not eff things up too much, to cause problems. When we do, we must come clean quickly, and rectify our problems early. We must take responsibility for cocking things up, but put things right early, before more serious problems arise. The student didn’t want to be wrong , but knew he was and probably hoped for leadership from the instructor, but all he got was eff you m8! I assume they were both men? They needed some correction there, I believe. I’m not sure exactly what, but it needs discussing to avoid re occurrence? I think! Thank you for sharing.
Funny.....😂... Yet a great talk.... Love the walking talks Tim. Very Peter Zeihan. 😊
Great story!
Oh Sh*t, I better hurry, I've still got a lot to unfu#k! Hope I make it back to base.
😂, hands on instructor with words of wisdom, reminds me of my WO2 SF. (Name retracted)
Great story 👌
Never a dull video , this channel has become my new favourite, like having a cool big brother
Sounds like Chivenor in the 70's... The good old days!
Hopefully the instructor wasn't then grounded for it. The student got a valuable lesson that day.
I look forward to the Friday strolls in the country Tim ,having a wee blether superb 😊
Regards
Dave from Scotland
Great as long as you don’t run out of fuel and have to Eject, as even if you had refuelling capability, could you get a tanker there in time. Worked on the Hawk T1A, Mk 63 and Mk 102 so know a bit about Hawks. Glad he made it back, or that Egg would truly have been on the instructor’s face.
You should then know that the Hawk could be incredibly fuel-efficient if it just pulled up to height, which is also the easiest way to work out your position. All Hawk pilots know this, so it's incredibly unlikely he would have ever run out of fuel.
Spot on.
Too True Tim
Great story. Loved it, mark, ex army.
Bloody hell Tim ..... next time your're having a bad day feeling sorry for YOURself, think on this: unlike 99.9% of the population, YOU can reflect - by way of stories such as these - on a life, extremely well lived!
Very well told btw, there are individuals who have lead far less exciting lives, living very comfortably giving anecdotal talks on the cruise ship circuit?
Sounds like a useful life lesson to me,Tim.
LOVE IT!
Love it.
Yes you are right, in the main we cause our own sh1t. That’s lovely where you are. Used to have the River Wye on one side & the River Severn by the Royal Engineers College at Chepstow. Lovely area of the UK. Have a good weekend….👍…
Nice one :-)
As Instructors we’ve all been there, done that. My patience was stretched thin after 15 months before a leave was granted. That’s a story for another day…
Oh I totally understand, even when I was told I must take 30 days off for chronic fatigue, I still didn't go - I was an idiot at times!
@@FastJetPerformance Some times you don't realise your stressed until you come out of it , then the body goes into standby mode and you feel shattered .
There’s 7 minutes I’ll never get back.
Thanks for the watch, it all counts :)
@@FastJetPerformance You’re welcome
@@fungiformenow I'd have paid, laughed hard at that story, the realist channel on TH-cam.
Thanks Tim. There’s a useful message there for young men. Do you think there’s any particular reason that young men are beginning to shirk their responsibilities and trying to absolve themselves of accountability?
By the way, I think your audience would really appreciate your perspective on current affairs that involve air combat of one kinda and another. I know I would.
I think they see their parents, politician's and public figures being weak and therefore think it's acceptable to do the same.
@@FastJetPerformance Well they’ve certainly got a low opinion of older generations
That's a great story, good job the student didn't bury himself in a hill though.
Tactical weapons student, please listen and read 🙄
…thing I can’t understand is how 5 mins @ 500 m.p.h. and followed by half an hour at the same speed makes ‘the middle of Wales’ have any significance..😂!
Words to live by!
" I thinkI know where we are, I was lost here once before"
I thought for a second you were going to say the student ended up somewhere like Cornwall haha. I can imagine that LL in a T1 at 500kts would be extremely difficult.
How do you know when there's a pilot in the room? He tells you! But in Tim's case over and over again!
I must have missed that one. Bye the way, my Dad's a policeman.......😂
It's not so much lost more a mini adventure !!!!
I like it!
Yo Tim, great video as always. Just a curious video suggestion- would you be able to speculate on the Ukraine Pilot training pipeline. Specifically for the new guys coming through to ensure the future of the now soon to become western-ish airforce.
I’ve seen the UK has offered elementary training on their Grob turbo prop aircraft and other NATO countries including the US have agreed to conduct F16 training.
What makes me curious is there has been no press on the in between stage of training for new pilot. I.e an actual jet trainer to get them to an F16 input standard. Any thoughts or ideas would be extremely interesting!
@Fast Jet Performance , love your postive voice and messeages ....u intrigue me
Q, how long does it take to learn how to fly a F16 ??? Especially if you carnt speak English .......estimated guess ????
Raf chop,civilians,can't,we have 2 persist😊
Kind of puts into some perspective send us all your F16s and we will end SMO in a week. Language, maintenance, runways, maps, fueling, low passing, dog fighting (which other side has perfected) and most of all training..
And S-500s.
We all been there....
Tim I’ve said it before and I say it again. You are a legend. Enjoyed pulling up the sandbag.
But yeah your right in my line of work I’ve had to adopt your mantra well the other instructors you fucked it up you untuck it. Mega love your little videos and yeah your right. Time to get running again or double barrels from you lol 5🗡️9
What are those yellow radar dishes behind you Tim ?
Sunflowers mate 🌻
@@ryan_henderson Thanks for the heads up mate.
Sun-trackers
Not sure that 'old school' ethos is relevant anymore. As I am sure you know, the new instructors realise the objective is the student's progression and not their own ego. I realise that your message is about self determination but the example is a frustrating blast from the past. I have flown with instructors that got angry and it helps no-one. Surely the instructor in this case should have shown the student a method to solve the problem or gone into trail and told him to do an IFR recovery? As a parent, anytime I get angry with my kids it is because I have run-out of parenting skill or patience - both are on me. I think the lesson is for the instructor - send him back to the Harrier! (thanks for the channel).
You are generation snowflake, creating a new generation of snowflakes. God help us all
In Tim’s example, if the student ran out of fuel and crashed loosing both aircraft and pilot, he would melt in the fireball like your proverbial snowflake.
Fact is, leaving the student enabled him to un fuck it by finding his way home, so kinda worked, and the student owned it learning a good lesson in owning mistakes in aviation, that’s how I read it anyway
@@nkpanathanit’s been a long time since I flew formation, not sure what the actions are when your number two just leaves in a hissy fit! Gave the student more problems to consider. He probably had a really enjoyable flight home! 😂
@@GTH360 id imagine the he had some smells emanating from that cockpit once he landed :)
Typical bloke, not prepared to pull over and ask directions.
Thats is a fantastic story! Un fuck it! Definitely food for thought also.....
You and I would never get along. I am accountable to no one.
quovadis5172 - Quite obviously, you're not in the Military then.
When I was an avionics guy, my manager used to say ' you fuck it, you fix it !'.... I follow the same mantra ( but I'm always there in the background ) . Imo, bad decision by the instructor... I would have sacked him . His boots wouldn't have touched the ground, pun intended
I remember an ex 19 squadron instructor (probably around the 02/03 time) that ended up in KSA as head of Hawk flying. He once mentioned a saying that 19 squadron used about 208... it went something aling the lines of 208 maste£%te....something else...
That went WAY back before then.
The lack of accountability comes from the very top downwards - just think about what that means for the future.
This reminds me a bit of motorbike training... specifically angry sweary instructors...