James Baldwin v. William F. Buckley (1965) | Legendary Debate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ธ.ค. 2021
- JAMES BALDWIN DEBATES WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY. AT CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY'S UNION HALL. DELIVERED FEBRUARY 18, 1965.
Shared for historical purposes. I do not own the rights.
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James Baldwin's face when Buckley was speaking 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I clocked that too.
Buckley is a real ass!
Especially when Buckley ‘mocked’ Baldwin for speaking with a British accent. Baldwin seemed to take umbrage.
Hahahaha, yes.. Quite a sight
Yeah, eyes bugged out like he has a thyroid problem. Very clownish!!! 🤡 Well, Coonish to be accurate.
"It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
😂
Are you quoting George Carlin the comedian/entertainer as someone who doubted the existence of the American dream as being only available in your dreams because I just checked his bio and if you are talking about the comedian George Carlin, he was making upwards of $ 250,000 per year in the 1960 and at his death, he was worth 10 million. That's reality, not a dream. Maybe you mean a different George Carlin ???
Being wealthy is not the only thing the American dream entails.
@@backfloop Fools believe there's an American Dream. It all an illusion.
@@backfloop That's true. It is more about the opportunity to follow your dreams. So again, i think George Carlin is a hypocrite to declare that the American dream is a only dream and not a reality because he got to follow his dreams and get paid for it. Where else but in America can you get paid to say the 7 banned words and think that is entertainment ?
That's some dream he made come true.
The opening speaker was excellent too. He had a strong well supported description of the problem. We need this type of programming now. Critical thinking needs to be revived.
Facts
I couln,t make it out if the speaker were a reporter or an author It,s just out of curiousity;Thanks.
Absolute brilliant job he did, no question, he had his numbers.
1.6% of Southerners owned slaves in 1860. To pretend that America's power and wealth was greatly influenced by this tiny fraction is absurd
@@southpaw8040 The laws across the entire United States oppressed Black people. It wasn't just the slavery system. It was the Federal Government and Jim Crow Laws.
Perhaps due to the lack of depth or lack of historical depth, but many overlook the time of this debate, "1965". Again, 1965. It was a time segregation was wide spread in the United States and along with it, an 'in your face hatred'. Baldwin was stating his argument in a mostly white forum in a different country. Even he didn't expect what would happen Hence, the surprised look on his face when they gave him a standing ovation. Though also American, I would imagine Buckley was much more comfortable in his own skin. No pun intended. Considering the position, Baldwin composure, bravery and delivery was enviable. Most people "regardless of color of skin" would've never done it. Therefore, one has to give Baldwin massive, and I mean massive respect.
So true.
I think Baldwin is the greatest American ever lived for so many reasons. He is bang on about racism hard to believe they still told us in history class that Lincoln fought against slavery. Nah, he wanted their help and was then going to give them a colony. They said, no help for you unless we are fully integrated into the country we helped create”. And they were for a short time and then…segregation.
As many have🖤👍🏿✌🏿👊🏿
Think about the Hon.Elijah muhammad referring to the Whiteman as the devil from 30s-1975
Thank you. Much love.
Baldwin was a force of nature. One of the most eloquent speeches I think I have ever seen.
amazed his eyes didn't actually pop out.
Bigotry comes in many disguises.
@@toffa1000 wtf?!
Buckley too arrogant to know he's intellectually bankrupt
@@willyandjudyf5937 Hu looks09000
THIS DEBATE TOOK PLACE 3 DAYS BEFORE MALCOLM X WAS ASSASSINATED....
Wow!
Wow!!
Wow!!!
Not surprised. We have so much historical fiction coursing through our nations veins. Someday perhaps we will know the truth about how we were lied to and manipulated.
@@SUZSMITHwe will all be long dead before they tell you how they control you
What a gift, what a blessing it is to be able to see and hear this sort of debate for free and so easily.
Yes! I hope that this clarity and truth spoken for free and available to all will make a difference in the coming years.
William Buckley believed in an idealized version of America and James Baldwin lived in and saw the real America.
William Buckley was an intelligence asset for Atlanticist and you know who ish elites and helped take out the old right for neoconservatism.
Baldwin was also pushed by these people for radical leftism and racial tension and color revolution the way we allowed them to do over seas and are now doing here.
These talks and Buckley’s talks with Chomsky (on the Epstien list) set the left right Overton window. The same way they do now with Ben Shapiro and Destiny or Piers Morgan as “the height of debate.”
And that's the difference
You got that right😂
AMERICA is indeed IDEAL! There has never been an experiment in human history that rivals the United States! No where there has been such a mixture of different RACES, RELIGION N PEOPLE who co-exist together! It’s not perfect but name one country in the WORLD that can offer what US does!
There are only idealized versions of America in the American mind, bub.
James Baldwin has the most expressive eyes.....he said SO MUCH......even when he wasn't uttering a Word!!!!
Mr. Baldwin is spell binding, mesmerizing, courageous, brave, intelligent and brilliant.
LOL. Preening
Seems like Mr Baldwin is the only coloured person there, that takes balls.
@@fernandieprice3703 there are some others in there just not many.
@@fernandieprice3703
Colored... You dare to refer to black people as colored GTFOHDAB😂😂😂😂😂
That’s why I’m watching, certainly not at all for Buckley
Excellent speech. I'm 73 years old and am surprised I never heard it before. He was a brilliant man.
Are you whit
@@wtf-qr3vq is you being sarcastic...I'm sure she knows her history she's probably enjoying this black and white video of this nice debate...I've learned when you dive deep into ur history you will see the amazing black and white videos Charles Clarke was the awesome man I bumped into last year I was trying to get out of Christianity when I learned the Vatican took Spirituality then twisted the words changed names changed people color then changed it to Christianity then went around the world forcing even killing millions if they didn't believe in Christianity that's bad so yeah I finally got out of Christianity but alone the way it was awesome knowledge poured in it was awesome but check out Charles Clarke if you want true change or insight he is the go to..
It's very cool what is available now on TH-cam.
@@horseshoes3523
There are bad and good in each group of people. But don't let the bad steal your soul.
God is real.
At end of time as we know it many church's won't be true they will be apostate denying the power of God and only trust them self
Pray for understanding and read the Bible for yourself. Christ is the door the way.
It's worth studying search and believe.
And receive .
@@lindamullins1446 you misunderstood I believe in a Spirit that created the universe and being I don't believe in Christianity god the word god originated in the 6th century sooo Christianity named the universe a god and a he that's wrong even the word love was put in that book called bible....see this guy named Herodotus he went to Africa got those people history and when he died the Vatican took what Herodotus wrote down the African past history then he put it in the 1st book of the bible BUT the African history was sapose to have been for the tribe to learn what to eat and what not to eat and how to treat your fellow man it wasn't sent from a person name god it was the AFRICAN HISTORY that's it NOW the African people believe there is a great Spirit that's why SPIRITUALITY is theirs not Christianity with all their mumbo jumbo crap...did you not know EVERY ONE had their own god Africa, Europe, China, Hawaii, Australia and Mexican we all had are own beliefs BUT the Vatican went around the world killing people if they didn't believe in their false god they killed, stolen land raped children, boys and women now that is insane but generation after generation they gave in or die..
I BELIEVE IN SPIRITUALITY NOT CHRISTIANITY and I feel so much better Christianity have dead inn's like heaven or hell and that was put in that book even the word love sooo if you want to believe in Christianity you have at it... my Spirit doesn't hate or racism Christianity is nothing but hatred and don't tell me some of them no ALL them is racist if they wasn't African American men wouldn't be killed like they are Christianity love dog, horses, cats more than African or people of color but SPIRITUALITY is Africans truth as a whole we don't kill but Christianity as a whole they never found humanity name one time a Caucasian was civilized you can't because it's not in them soooo no thank you I'm on the right side of humanity which is SPIRITUALITY....✌️
“Until this moment, there is scarcely any hope for the American dream, because the people who are denied participation in it, by their very presence will wreck it; and if that happens it’s a very grave moment for the West.”
If any statement could sum up the 55+ years that followed up this speech it would be that.
42:33 interposed on it
. HEAR, HEAR
2024
I got chills when James Baldwin received a standing ovation! Brave and so intelligent. Baldwin won hands down
Yes, I love the elegant way he spoke with Wisdom and compassion for all of the Black Americans. Now what in the World 🌎 was James Buckley trying to sell White people that there's nothing they could do about our problems. I really tried to follow what he was saying somehow I got lost maybe because I never heard man speak like him.i really thought he was trying to be Insulting !!!Janice Harley
I Love James Baldwin ♥
Yessss! Me too. His voice and stance was not only confident, but commanding. We and they had to hang on to his every word. You have to respond to passion and truth.
How many White guy s standed up and clapped for that white man speaking should have gave James Chills they was evil asf to clap after hearing james B speech..
@@dexpression6579 I will listen again I really did not guite understand him Janice Harley
"The country who you pledged allegiance to did not pledge allegiance to you! " I got that.
James Baldwin’s intelligence and courage in speaking his truth has me absolutely star struck.
Why is it surprising, when it is the truth, the surprising thing is the situation existed in so called civilized country, first stolen by the British
James Baldwin, to stand up and say this at this time in history, didn't have balls of steel - he had a soul of steel.
Baldwin tore them a new ass in the first 5 minutes or less ... the Indian is you black man...damn !... this was bebeautiful, I'm touched deeply.
Right. You demonstrate the assumption that one group of people has a monopoly on discrimination and suffering. Baldwin appeals to emotion, buckley to intellect.
@@lukeman62 America was built on the backs of black people. Slave labor. We used that labor to get ahead so quickly.
@@lukeman62 Intellect? It is not intellect to defend Nazis as being "heroic" in WWII, nor is it intellectual to say that their torture of people was put on track by the Normandy landing, which are two things Buckley argued for only four years later. It is also not intellect to cut off your opponent at every opportunity to prevent them from finishing any point, or to dismiss their arguments by calling them queer, or to threaten to punch them, which are all things Buckley did when he had debates in a setting he controlled.
Even if we were to just look at Buckley in this debate, especially during 1965, Buckley is just plain wrong while Baldwin's opening speech is entirely correct.
Buckley was king of emotional arguments that have no basis in reality, and a sympathizer for the wrong side in WWII.
No one is more convinced and enamored of Buckley's intelligence than Buckley.
only no one's like you
@@leplus1 That pretty much sums up any average schmo with a following
jjjjjjnnnnjmj😊
That could be a complementary comment,In the context of post modernistic Consideration
TEEHEE
I noticed how Buckley claimed Baldwin was affecting a British accent. At the same time I could detect a distinctly southern accent peeking through Mr. Buckley very distinguished way of talk.
If you're American, you might not realize that all the people who suddenly started coughing and clearing their throats were effectively saying "You're full of sh*t." Notice how quiet they were while Mr Baldwin spoke.
He utilized what was called a Transatlantic or otherwise known as a Mid Atlantic accent, it had largely fallen out of usage by the late 1950s but was generally practiced by the upper middle and upper classes on the East Coast, other well known users were Katherine Hepburn and President Franklin Roosevelt. I would say Mr Buckley was the last well known speaker in America that used the accent
also known as talking through clenched teeth accent.@@zachhoward9099
Bingo. He was wicked as he was racist here.
@@zachhoward9099 Exactly!! Plus, the Buckley's lived in a Winter Home in South Carolina which plausibly contributed to his unique speech pattern.
what a powerful and erudite speech by mr Baldwin
Baldwins Eloquence Is Unmatched !!!...
He's not just eloquent, he's honest and factual. What a contrast to the superficial self-dramatising Buckley!
@@geoffreynhill2833 he spoke opinion and tghe people here only love his "speech" sadly, thought that was a microagression, these the same people to want black noly safe spaces but hate on muslim bakers and christian artists
My folks spoke highly of Mr. Baldwin for years after this went down in 65. I was not born until 1968.
Baldwin was a great sociologist as well as a great writer. His essays are both art and social science simultaneously .
I come back to this every year. One needs to be reminded of what our those before us had to endure for us to reap the benefits of today. National treasure Baldwin is!
The black gentlemen and women and children of those days went through far, far more than what many go through today. Many people in general today are cry babies no matter what creed they are. We're in a generation of people who smash and burn up buildings, tip and burn cars, destroy local businesses and threaten to harm people in their homes. And yet you admit that certain people are reaping benefits today? Why all the rioting then?
Personally as a father to two mixed raced children, I'm glad that people of black ancestry or complexion aren't persecuted like they were. Now it's only the elderly and a relatively small chunk of young people who have inherited the racism.
The fact is, the rules of today are if you look like you want to succeed you will be given opportunities. I have come across not one employer who never employed a black or Asian person. Perhaps cause true racism doesn't exist anymore and the places that racism still does exist and thrive, aren't even white countries.
Thank God the original, racist and violent police force has been replaced by something just as bad.
@@tonyoliver2167 Are you suggesting that only in recent times has private property ever been damaged due to socioeconomic or political injustice in this country? Have you heard of The Boston Tea party? Do you think that they just talked it out? Also, most of success is completely luck. I mean, exactly how much of your effort did you exert in order for you not to be born a destitute minority? Before you were born were you working 60 hour weeks so that you weren't born with a socioeconomic handicap? Your arguments about racism are fallacious; you're literally saying that because you never met a racist employer, that means that there are none? What is more likely: That racial prejudice has been wiped away from the face of this country because you never personally see it or that you're just lucky enough or sheltered enough to have never really witnessed it? Why do republicans have to gerrymander then if minorities are so well represented and fairly treated? If there is no "true racism", why has there been a rise in hate group memberships in the last 2 decades? Are they not "true" racists?
What benefits are those if we are still impacted by white supremacy ideology?
I joined the local NAACP ago listen. We cannot imagine the experience of others while separating ourselves from it.
@@tonyoliver2167 I think you’re delusional if you think that racism does not still exist in America. I feel sorry for your children.
P.S. - A lot of the people engaging in smashing windows, destroying businesses, etc. were agent provocateurs. There were eyewitnesses who saw police dressed in military-style clothing, systematically walking down the street smashing store windows. Others saw huge piles of bricks left outside stores for people stupid enough to pick them up and throw them, only to be arrested shortly thereafter. Besides, about 95% of those demonstrations were peaceful. It was a small minority who engaged in the type of behavior you mentioned. And btw - The police are just as violent and racist as they ever were.
James Baldwin has always been one of my heroes, as both a writer and an activist. He was a brave truth teller. This is such a prophetic debate as we now have irrevocable evidence that the American Dream…based upon financial prosperity…was built on the back of the unpaid labor of slaves and continued after slavery ended through the prison-industrial system.
Okay, care to tell me which of America's skyscrapers were made out of cotton and tobacco?
@@loqutorwho financed the building of said skyscrapers? W men who got rich through generational wealth from cotton and tobacco.
Know where you are before typing dreck on the internet.
Let us not forget that backs were not the only slaves, nor the only people whom were actively discriminated against and used for the benefit to others.
As far as whom actually, physically built the civilization we now call home…that distinction much go to the whites on the whole. There’s no logical argument against this.
@@mickeyshooter5298 o good grief! This is why education is important so that ppl don't spew crap like this on the internet.
It's not a comparison of who has suffered more than the other. It is not Oppression Olympics!
Which enslavement of which people still reverberates in today's society? Black people of course. There used to be open and blatant discrimination against Irish, Italian, Polish et al European immigrants. According to historian Hietala the difference is that within a generation those groups were quickly accepted into white society. They were considered white and therefore the societal privileges extended to them.
Hietala noted in "The Fight of the Century" that the new European migrants quickly realized that despite their obvious linguistic differences, at least they were not Black and treated such!
White men may have funded the buildings and infrastructure, however a culmination of the labour that generated that wealth AND some the inventions like the traffic light, street sweeper, filament within the light bulb etc are attributed to Black people...most of whom never got remuneration for their onerous work.
@@loqutor Which ones weren't funded by monies from those industries?
Remember when such fundamental debates were held, recorded and even broadcast.
I feel privileged to have lived in the age of a great prophet. May Mr Baldwin's prophetic words always be with us, and may he live always in blessed memory.
'Now will bring the voice of actual experience to the debate' that was a great line dude
I wish we has someone like James Baldwin living among us now. We could use someone who has the articulate ability to speak truth to power that is much lacking today.
James Baldwin was a extraordinary man. He fought for social justice for himself as well others. This society needs more individuals like him in the past,present, and future!! Richard Shackelford Shackelford
Check out Thomas Sowell. He's still alive and grew up just a few blocks from Baldwin .
Ta-Nehisi Coates and many others but it doesn't matter like James said here "I don't know and neither does MLK, none of us know, how to deal with those other people who the white world has ignored for so long. Who don't believe with the white world says or what black leaders say." That's the political ground now on both sides.
@@markstuber4731 it's crazy more people aren't aware but given most of his ideas, no wonder
Rap.
Just listened today Oct 2023 - I graduated in 1965 this is so profetic of what has happened thru the ages and the debate by Mr Baldwin and Mr Buckley, is still a current issue today. Little has changed. Mr Baldwin was eloquent and real!!
True, still current, however I am curious as to what would’ve have been your view on the topic back then and if it has progressed in your experience! A very valuable experience as your generation has witnessed a lot on this particular issue ! And what’s your thoughts on what’s happening now ? The rise of right wing politics, regression of liberal values , immigration in UK etc !
Really just out of interest! Is is better now compared to the 80s in particular??
I am an African professional expat now living in England
I would add Palestine to that as well, amongst many other colonial & imperial victims of the US, UK & it's cohorts@@deyaomarelnawrani5606
Nothing has really changed. Just the illusions that it has changed. In fact it's worst! Technology, and Thirst to survive! Caused by drugs imagration, public schools, politics, individualism, and greed. Now because their were no real changes after the 1960's. The majority of Blacks are at the bottom. We've been handed a bag of Sh-it every Generation that has been here.
Love this guy, Baldwin should be highlighted more for his work
Yes, especially Black history.
I wish James Baldwin would have after Buckley. Great to see he received the standing ovation. And what he said was then and sadly still true today.
The circumstances that are don't tell you where and who they are. As a general they're complex in the complete opposite to what typical is considered easy. Conclusions are easy to state, but hard to lead one who is in doubt of them a serious glimpse of how they connect to one another
@@madra000what kind of incomprehensible word-salad written by ChatGPT is this?
Mr Baldwin is such an elegant speaker who articulate his words very well
@@rinkinkel"anyone speaker"?
Do you grammar friend?
@@rinkinkel😂🤡
Florida public education curriculum developers are still debating this nearly 60 years after this speech and 160 years after the emancipation proclamation.
RIP Baldwin.
What aspect of what this great man speaks about, are they debating? I've been following Florida, & I haven't seen seen evidence of bigotry, but rather an appreciation of what James Baldwin speaks of here with regards to essential human rights, identity, & bodily autonomy.
@farmfamdorrie😂😂😂I don't know what Florida you are following.... 😂
Curriculum
@@richardouvrier3078 thanks
The look on Mr Baldwin's face as Buckley speaks..PRICELESS
Buckley was an idiot's idea of a smart man. Vidal was able to exploit that.
Why is one Mr and the other not? Personal bias?
@@sleddy01Buckley did not conduct himself with the same class as Baldwin.
@@jiminswriter4209 so he's not addressed as Mr?
@@sleddy01 He can be addressed as Mr., but not because he is highly respected, just out of common courtesy.
I seen this Baldwin wiped the floor with the arrogant Buckley. Respectfully
@Rocky Adkins Yes, he did!!!!
Mr James Baldwin stood up with a elegant stance, with a captive speech with a cool demeanour ayres from Jamaica
Oh? Did he really? Seems a bit more like that room was populated with the very kind of people (white liberals) that Malcolm X warned us about.
😂Ha, Ha.💔
I agree with you and I think there was a need for one more round.
This is one of my favorite presentations by Jimmy Baldwin. He's Brilliant--simply Brilliant!
I agree; he definitely is!!!
He was one of the Harlem Renaissance Poets . Langston Hughes too.
Who Is Jimmy Baldwin? Show some respect
@@markquarles7249 lol
@@markquarles7249right.as if he knew the man
The presenter was very concise and did a great job starting this off
I feel so lucky to see and hear James Baldwin speak. Thank you for posting this
Real real talk. Real History.🙏
I have had the great pleasure of watching several of James Baldwin’s speeches and interviews. In my opinion, this was his finest moment.
he lost the battle, but 'white guilt' voted for him in this 'fine moment' lol duh. nobody beats BUCKLEY in a debate. and William was clowning around doing so, as well as clowning baldwimp and his fake british accent that Buckley pointed out on top of it , lmao.
THEND.
@@atheistleopard618looks like not knowing when you DEFINITELY lost is the new definition of the white man’s burden lol
@@atheistleopard618stupidity has no bound
@@melanin7977 you speak from experience, quim silage huffer.
@@atheistleopard618 STop mistaking me for your Mother!!!
True Words Spoken and To Live By 👏 🙌 🙏. James Baldwin's truthful statement is speaking truth from his grave to this very day. He spoke with such a strong truthful race ideology the some Whites to the very day can't comprehend. James Baldwin was before his time. Thank God for the time we had him in this world.
Count me in for one of the Whites that cannot understand the brilliant race ideology to this day. I am surprised by the comments on this video, I suppose, because of what appears as to be a universal winner of this debate, the brilliant James Baldwin.
As I was listening to Mr. Baldwin I found it distasteful that he was bringing upon himself all of the woes and none of the triumphs of 'his people'. I picked the cotton. I built the railroads. Then, after placing the coat of grievances snugly over his shoulders on his own accord, he goes on to blame the white man for this coat being thrust upon him or existing in the first place.
I thought to myself as I watched Mr. Baldwin and the audience of young white faces in rapt attention, as quiet as can be, hanging on every word, and hearing him taking on his education being a lie, and his realizing that his country didn't have a place for him, unless it was as a savage or a clown. His women raped, his work being what built the American Dream, they are taking in every rhetorical flourish as gospel truth and show in their ovation an emotional empathy and support for the plight of the American Negro to use their parlance, and are blind to the agitation and threats tossed in for good measure. Those who cannot participate in it....will wreck it...coming from a man so obviously not missing out on the american dream himself.
Baldwin, his education, his freedom, his grant to travel abroad and live in France at 24yo and his proximity to the artists of The Harlem Renaissance many of whom also were given handsome grants to pursue their dreams, seems blessed in his experience to not have calloused hands of field work, but more importantly, blessed to have people desire his writings and speeches. It is this blessing that makes his speech come across as sophistry in my eyes, but also doesn't seem to even address the debate topic at hand. The Chinese and the Irish may well have a lot to say about Baldwin's claims that it was He who built the railroads. Leaves quite a bit of other backs for that American Dream to have been hung.
So, do tell, what it is that I simply cannot get because of Baldwin's being so ahead of his time
Baldwin speaks as he writes and believes , no 2 faces....then there's Buckley.
🤭
Baldwin: no 2 faces; Buckley: no true face.
I come back to this particular debate every few months and listen to James Baldwin's eloquence and poise which leads me to mourn how much we as a people have fallen.
We can rise and we will I will won’t let the fire die and let my people go blind completely. I’m 26 and I will be a leader
I feel that things are getting better. The light is shining where it needs to be shone…now we need brave people to continue to push on progress for African Americans, for Hispanics, for women. It is worse in many respects but it is not going to get brushed under the rug. Keep pushing for what is right every day.
@@1Truerelentless❤
William F. Buckley aka The Artful DODGER! The art of speaking without saying anything!
Buckley could not sound convincing because he was having to leave out too much truth.
Nothing came out his mouth to defend his point. What an intelligent dummy 😊
@@UKAlanRthe truth that he Is racist?
I cannot understand anything he is saying. What is his point?
@@josiahamaze That's the point he is not saying anything he's simply filibustering
My firs ttime ever hearing James Baldwin speak. My gosh he has such a command over the room. It feels like everyone is holding their breath just to hear the next word
Awesome. I'm a big Baldwin fan.... What made you seek this out?
He still Amazes today,......who Speaks the Truth like Him,..?
GREAT DEBATE SIMPLY GREAT 🧠 I truly wish they had these today outside of the campaign debates
U.S. needs this civil discourse to move this country, not these junk yard cable commentary fits.🤓
They aren't honest and humble most do not believe in God and that people are accountable for their relationships with people!!! Janice Harley
This was called a debate but it clearly is not a debate. This is commentary only.
@@janiceharley9051 what does believing in god have anything to do with this
@@Madilyns because the Creator of heaven and earth saids that people are accountable of how they treat each other as in we should Love our Neighbor as ourself!
Thank you for posting this interview.
Yes. Thank you. 🙏🏻
Man mr. Baldwin's words strike like an ice pick between the eyes.
“Accept our history” - James Baldwin. Encapsulates a huge challenge in American society today.
I agree. You should never have gone independent of Britain.
I recently finished Nicholas Buccola’s new book, “The Fire is Upon Us: James Baldwin, William F. Buckley, Jr., and the Debate over Race in America”. It is excellent. It traces their lives, in context, leading up to the encounter at Cambridge.
JAMES BALDWIN, MARTIN LUTHER KING JNR, FARAKHAN, MARCOM X These were the good,the bad,and the ugly of the days
Yes, I want to read this. Thx. But Buckley seems like a vile creature.
@@ryand141 I think you’ll find your thought well supported. Buckley was only interested in “winning” the debate as such. He thought he’d won it because he didn’t concede any points to Baldwin. A good debater’s point of view, but intentionally avoiding the truth of Baldwin’s arguments.
It’s quite a contrast with Baldwin’s humanity. Having grown up in the South, I had heard all of Buckley’s points many times before. Unfortunately, Buckley’s views are still entrenched in so much of the rhetoric from the Republicans today. Baldwin is one of my go-to people when I need to find some sanity.
I know you’ll find the book well written and very informative.
@@williamwenck5712 Honestly, I didn't understand his argument, Buckley's. His personal attack on Baldwin was crude and even Baldwin was shocked. Baldwin's talent was immense. The line when he said 'their consolation is like a heavenly revelation' was brilliant. It was an emotive speech but it was also very factually correct. It was profound in every sense. I agree completely with Baldwin when he said racism is cowardly. It is, because, after all, civilization began in Africa. We all can trace our roots back to that point.
@@williamwenck5712 Yes, the entrenchment you mention. I see it. There are people on the chat who mention Buckley won the debate and black people always play the victim card etc, and black people are the criminals. Well, I don't see that. I think it's the complete opposite. You will never convince some people, unfortunately. I wonder how certain people can become so brainwashed in their thinking. I mean, Baldwin got a standing ovation from the house at Cambridge University and they think Buckley won the debate. How on earth can you come to that conclusion?
Buckley used humor when no real argument is available to him. He also wanted the audience to know he has an excellent vocabulary and can speak in somewhat of a rhythm.
I believe both parties articulated the perspective native to their people. What would say was the underlying point to Buckleys presentation?
. . . I found his tone annoying.
I wonder if he had Shakespearean acting experience. I have recently been watching succession and I have been reading a lot about how Brian coxs history of being a Shakespearean actor made him the ideal actor for playing Logan Roy. The creator stated that the script has a rhythm and musicality to it that resembles Shakespeare
@@PiPoholic-it don't matter. What British kid said about arrests in south vs those in voting polls was enough.
This is a common tactic of reactionaries, I noticed Christopher Hitchins frequently utilized this approach throughout his debate with Michael Parenti and had just as much egg on his face
It's too bad that intellectuals like James Baldwin are not taught amongst children. I assume that it would raise the level of education and be too much of a threat.
We read his book Go Tell It On The Mountain in high school.
I teach Baldwin in my High School English classes, and I learned Baldwin in my English classes as a high schooler as well. I think he shows up fairly regularly in curriculum, as most of my colleagues across multiple schools and districts use his work.
They banning books in the south, Nazis burned them
pure wisdom in J. BALDWIN and powerful facts came from the first speaker also
Baldwin at his best. Wm F his ever supercilious self, no intellectual slouch -and an awesomely weak opponent of Baldwin.
Thank Mike for continuing to bring us content & culture.
I'm almost 40 years old, well read and somehow i just discovered James Baldwin. This man should be taught in our public schools.
Agreed. They are busy banning books right now so we might have to wait
First read him in 1969. "The Fire Next Time"
Thank you for uploading
Mr. James Baldwin, what an intelligent and great speaker.
Never fed up listening Baldwin over and over again
Buckley spoke at my college graduation in 1972. No one among my friends and family who were there, myself included, had any idea what he was talking about.
Word salad
Reminds me of the comedian Brian Regan and his bit about calling a company to return a package or something... And the lady on the phone asked him for the girth units of the product and he replied "I'm too stupid to talk to you." That's how I felt listening to most of this.
@@jacksbutts6990 progressives dont know what a woman is
I see why you guys project the trailer life when I go past your knowledge and manufactured thought
@@Conorscorner reminds me of joe biden saying you get a woofle ball bat and anytime you go to a 711 the brownies arent as diverse as the black taffy and i stood up to popcorn
Thank God for this channel for showing tapes of what actually happened and what was said. Note both speakers are civil, not screaming or brazenly insulting.
Yeah, times have changed, and not necessarily for the better in many way, since 1965.
If you mean being sarcastic, facetious, and he was insulting and demeaning as being civil!
I would disagree.
Buckley was typically ignorant, defensive and arrogant.
He attacked in a debate which showed his lack of character.
Can't believe anyone actually clapped for him
So True L♥️VE This Channel & Who Put It Together ❤
BOTH AS IN THE FIRST AND THIRD. THE SECOND ONE SOUNDED LIKE THE WHITE FOLKS THAT BE IN COMMENT SECTIONS PERTAINING TO BLACK PEOPLE. STRAIGHT IGNORANCE!
Thank you for sharing ❤
Great writer Great orator!!!
William Buckley was able to say in the most eloquent intelligent way that he is racist and wants to defend his racism
I wonder. I don't know anything about the guy, but he had a conversation between equals with Baldwin. Even the personal attacks are more an admission of his personal failure. I'm not denying it, but if he were racist to his core this debate would have never happened.
Well... don't they all?
@@LisaSimpsonRules was it a debate? Baldwin was not allowed to retort…Buckley didn’t even have to write an argument, just respond to what he heard, I would’ve loved to hear Baldwin’s response to that nonsense
@@iAm901 I am not sure here (meaning I have no idea at all), but I kinda took for granted that the structure of this debate must have been always like this in all cases. In the sense that the presentation and the introduction by two students? professors? from the university, and then the guests start talking. In that case, how was it decided who would go first, did they toss a coin out of camera or something? (As I said, I am not even arguing the case, it's just that I don't know) Me personally I think that Buckley's arguments are mostly fallacies, and it feels so boring to hear THAT intonation and speech rhythm for such a long speech! BUT I think that the event happened at all at that time gives credit to everybody involved. My opinion anyway without knowing anything about what might have gone on behind the scenes.
@@iAm901 I know how a debate works. The question is how THIS particular one was organised.
Buckley eloquently danced around the issue, he knows the incontrovertible evidence points to slavery economically catapulting the Colonies to a world player. Although slavery was abolished in 1863, the 102 years following to the date of this video, the free labor provided by my forefathers established this country so that European peasants could immigrate to The United States and receive benefits denied to my grandfathers; that also is incontrovertible evidence.
Not true, slavery is not an efficent system of enriching a nation, had the blacks been free the country would have prospered even further, the reason America became so rich was because of the tiny government and the free market without welfare, it was this system that allowed European immigrants to better their lives in America, it's also important to note that all slaves were black but not all black people were slaves, and the vast majority of black people in America today are not descendants from that particular slave trade in America.
@@baltzarbonbeck3559 Very true, what his statement also fails to take in to consideration was that the North abolished slavery between 1774 and 1804. Meanwhile, the south lagged significantly behind the North due to their inability to use human labour as productively and efficiently. Historically, slave labour has never been an effective mode of production, which is also true for similar economic systems (e.g., feudalism). It is also, correct to say that Americans benefited from a small government, less regulation and lower taxes. The drafters of the U.S. constitutions were indeed wise. In fact, the Articles of Confederation (1777) prohibited the ability of the federal government to tax incomes. It is unfortunate to see what has become of the U.S. considering all the checks and balances initially imposed to prevent such corruption from arising.
Industrial revolution had plenty to do it.
It is astonishing that all the checks and balances have not prevented the corruption from occuring. It must be the fate of all civilizations eventually to become tyrannical and collapse, as those checks and balances in our system were brilliantly set in place. I guess the game's not over yet though.
The Civil War destroyed ALL the wealth in the South but it industrialized the North. "Reconstruction" pauperized the south for a century, European immigrants were pauperized as well. They worked for everything they got when they came. They had a BRAIN, unlike so many blacks. They could think AND SPEAK distinctly. SPEECH is an indication of intelligence. If nobody can understand your SPEECH you wont get far. You don't get credit for what you destroyed with criminal behavior.
Jan 2024. I listened to Mr Baldwin, choked-up the entire time. Such a beautifully spoken speech; yet, here we are.
It seems "man" cannot fix this, so please all, continue to pray for God's Kingdom to come.
❤
True words sister!
This wasn't clash of the titans. It was boy vs man. Man represented by the brilliant Baldwin. Standing ovation well-deserved.
Well said.
man doesnt cry or complain about what he voted for, buckley was chill and baldwins eyes had pain funny part is everyone that quotes him defends police protection bills from bernie
Buckley was brilliant in this. Maybe you should have listened to it. Ahead of his time really
I viewed this program sometime ago and clearly Mr. Baldwin wiped the floor with Buckley and demonstrated his superior intellect and spellbinding eloquence. What Mr.Baldwin was articulating about the conditions and experiences of Black people in 1965 he could be saying today in 2023. And I think he would draw the conclusion that though there have been some cosmetic changes where a few Blacks have been allowed into the master's house under the guise of so called "progress" I think he would definitely come to the conclusion that conditions have not improved for the masses of Black people.
Truth.
SUCK-UP
True, but it's mainly due to poor choices such as having kids out of wedlock at an astronomical rate, and boys being raised without fathers in the home.
Things are worst for Blacks now because of the deliberate destruction of the Black family by infusing drugs in the Black community, poverty due to white racism that in turn breeds crime, light sentences for Black on Black crimes, excessive sentences for Black on white crime. Etc
There is a great need for the availability of various types contraception in the Black and the correct way of usage.
Baldwin was truly a gift to humankind.
thank you for posting.
I love the 50's continetal accent. Wish we could bring that back.
Thank you to the author of this post.. and thank you TH-cam at a time when the U.S. government has banned books and curriculum concerning the black experience. Thank you for being a source of accurate information and capturing the feeling of the real history of this nation. I really appreciate this. This should be in every American history class.
No books were ever banned when I grew up in the 70's . All of this information was readily available and we learned about the Slave trade in school, segregation and watched "Roots" for extra credit. You , like Black people at this time in the 60's , are getting sidetracked and tricked. An Articulate man who happened to be Black, living in a Metropolitan area, dressed well as he did, but you NEVER see this anymore. Something called "Black Culture" came in and set Black people back immeasurably. Imagine a culture that worships criminals and thugs and if you speak clearly says you are , "Acting White". The reason why no matter where they live in majority , you see literally identical conditions and crime rates for the same crimes. these people have never met or compared notes, and can live at other ends of the nations yet behave identically? Doesn't anyone finally get it, when it's literally staring you right in the face?. It's the "Culture" and you are programmed to shut up about it and blame a phantom of "White Supremacy".
The U.S. Government banned books?
@getpeko54 absolutely!!! A lot of black historical books
@KillerInstinct-ch5oj absolutely serious
which books did Congress ban?
I confess that, as Buckley made his way to the podium, I pitied him his task, having to follow Baldwin’s deeply thoughtful, philosophical, and rhetorically successful speech. However, as Buckley neared the end of his pastiche of subtly reactionary comments, I found myself disgusted by his self-servingly blame-the-victim mentality and his thinly veiled threat of racial warfare.
Baldwin had a lifetime to think about it, Baldwin just thought about how he was going to agree, smoke & mirror, lie, then agree again at the end, US politics 101
Powerful. Failure to encounter our own history has deeply harmed our country, harmed ourselves.
That's because the more you dig the uglier it gets & points back to the same issues today in a more sophisticated form
What’s great about time passing, is we get a glimpse into how ideas and beliefs of the past, no matter how well intentioned, fall short when tested over time. Buckley made valid points that hold up today, but was also clearly elucidating on a subject into which he had limited experience to understand - a fish can’t understand the life of a bird. Mr Baldwin had the luxury of speaking from, and understanding both sides of the issue having experienced them both, as a celebrated figure, as pointed out by Buckley, and as someone who has experienced the darker side of being black in America at that time. If I had to choose to consider one of these two men’s understandings over the other, it would be Baldwin due to his greater experience.
mostly just criminals can't understand another's experience and would state that others don't understand theirs for an excuse. this "racist" stuff was/is extortions and snake oil salespeople even before Patrice Cullors taking the money and running with propagandas to buy mansions not even in affluent black neighborhoods don't even like those people...
Just curious... what points do you feel Buckley made here were valid and that hold up today?
So what you're saying is Buckley was speaking from ignorance - and did not have the wisdom to concede that Baldwin had more authority to speak on racism.
Nice trick of trying to twist Buckley's arrogance and ignorance into Balwin having the "luxury" of having experienced racism personally.
and empathy and humility. Buckley was a great thinker, but his pomposity (period styles aside) is appallingly indifferent to the problem of human suffering.
@beaconpay8771 What was it that Buckley has said that would convince you that he's a great thinker? Not being snarky, I really do want to know what you think.
Buckley made himself look foolish and pompous. Same story in 2021 tho...🤷🏾♂️
And his tone annoys me and makes him clownish to me 🤦🏾♀️
Absolutely
Well the vulgar crowd are usually taken by appearances
He attacked James Baldwin, not the topic...he didn't make any sense. Jimmie debate was cohesive, he stuck to the topic. Buckley just showed up and babble some incoherent points, the whites lol
Buckley was sad he and the whole of Buckley`s are the epitome of the black man's plight it's never going to end
I say as Yul Brynner in the king and I,
I say that Buckley must of been a fool.
James was shocked when he received the standing ovation
What a superb orator..how the world could do with more people like him now..James Baldwin..I salute you.
Buckley couldn't have sounded more like an elitist cartoon villian if his life depended on it. Suppose this comes as no suprise from someone who supported Senator Goldwater (attributed as the founder of the Southern Strategy). The parallels between his deflections away from systemic racism and the impacts of slavery ("cheap" labor) to the to the deflections used today to minimize or deny these things was terrifying to be honest. Unfortunately for most who don't live a life directly negatively impacted by systemic racism and/or the legacy of slavery (and the subsequent versions of it) it is easy to not see how insidious Buckley's arguments are. Unfortunately it often takes active effort to learn about the history of those who have and do feel these impacts to understand how Buckley aims to trick those who otherwise would not support his views. It is also for this reason these arguments are still used today in various adaptations and why there has been such a fight from many Republicans to minimize how many people learn this history. In the end they (those who use these strategies) know that most would see them as wrong if they knew the history, so instead they obfuscate and depend on the predictable ignorance many will ultimately have in a world that was built by colonialism and white supremacy.
Pity we can't all be as enlightened as you.
@@tpryce6243yes we can, speak for yourself
Yessir, today's book banning in the south in 2024, US, UK & cohorts support of genocide, the list is long & sinister
Excellent, a standing ovation totally deserved. James Baldwin experience shone and can be related to in some aspect to peoples lived experience today. I would not have wanted to be in Buckley's shoes, but at least he tried.
THIS HAS REMINDED ME OF WERE WHAT WE HAD TO DO JUST TObe humans. Being s.iam 82 years old. Thank you.
It's still very bad,
Baldwin was a powerful speaker, compelling.
This gentleman mr Baldwin is eloquence personified.
What a genius communicator.
The nice thing about not-lying is; You've got less to remember. ;)
@@mderline4412their missing the whole point they looking at the tone of his voice the words he's using instead of hearing what he's saying for some reason they always miss the point or the subject smh....seems like they say things to look bigger within themselves to fool themselves their not racist if after they get done here and get caught being racist they can say see look at this you see what I said about this African guy that's how they sound to me and I'm not to far being close..
Baldwin was such an intelligent, brilliant man he new he was going to get an standing ovation for that eloquent speech 🤔
What I now, understand is when people treat you badly it's done on purpose....
Willam F. Buckley's amusing, like how he states the conditions of which black ppl should possess in order to vote in a country that boats of freedom for all. I admire and thank James Baldwin for his energy and teachings. For eloquently saying so many things that many black ppl weren't able to say.
Buckley’s argument, even though it was meant to be in opposition, was weak and only seem to validate James’ argument through the lack of depth into the reality of the situation. The “opportunities” he posed were only birthed because the American dream came at the expense of us and America as a whole especially in the long run.
How prescient. Bobby Kennedy practically predicted Barack Obama's election based on what James said here.
The debate question is sadly still painfully relevant today.
Exactly. Only thing change is the time
You people are perpetual victims and it’s your own fault
1965 and rock n roll started the mix. Just think, Baldwin was saying this just as the Beatles were refusing to play to segregated audiences....
Thank you. Much love!
The first glimmer of hope I've seen; but this was 50 years ago.
So sorry that nothing has changed.
Wrong. Kennedy's prediction was close and off by a mere 4 years, there was an African-American president. Considering the history, that's extraordinary.
@@QuinnJACKSON-zx1dx Obama's presidency, blackness achieved, was by most standards one of the most corrupt and notable for disastrous decisions.
@@QuinnJACKSON-zx1dx Baldwin's point is Kennedy's prediction wasn't a sign of progress but of the opposite. Irishmen could swoop in here and get elected president in a couple generations, Black folk can wait till 2008.
And even then, the biracial son of an African immigrant raised by his white mother, not a Black American that survived America for over 400 years. Not the same. Doesn't help he was a sell out for the rich either and oversaw the one of the greatest declines in black wealth.
@@QuinnJACKSON-zx1dx I naively thought, when Obama was elected, that at last this country had gotten past at least a certain point of racism. But changing the figurehead does not change things for ordinary people. And the backlash from the Obama presidency has been-- and is--horrid.
Racism increased when Obama was elected. And it's exploded in the last few years, thanks to the Republican's embrace of any kind of hatred or anger that might get them a vote or two.
It’s never going to end
I feel that way too at times ms Belinda the cycle continues smh shame but true
It will end
It could end, racism and racist ideology in general had to be developed over time, inversely it could also break down and dissolve over time until its gone
U must didn't read the Bible God told Abraham in Genesis 1619 to 2019 and he just getting started with Obama was the beginning of the revolution see all the people who got jobs they would never had before black people in the white house and others brown and black they are their because God Don't lie and the bottom rail shell and will come to the top before the end of time and the top will go to the bottom and people will weap what they have sowed on others
We are all very fortunate that truth-seekers don't see it your way.
I grew up watching Buckley's television show, Firing Line. As an adult, I read his novels and subscribed to his magazine, National Review. I respected his efforts to push extremists out of the Republican Party, and I admired his eloquence as a speaker. However, James Baldwin was his superior in this exchange. With his preening style and pompous delivery, Buckley had all the gravitas of a mugging villain from a penny dreadful melodrama.
Boom!
Buckley made efforts to push extremists out of the Republican party?
How'd that work out for him, in the long run?
BALDWIN IS GREATLY MISSED !!! 😞
Wow. Read Thomas Sowell for truth.
Mr Buckley, the 1st man to speak using "word salad".
And debates have exponentially gone down hill ever since.
Well deserved Standing ovation!
For Freshman English in College, I read a book by Author and Civil Rights Activist James Baldwin entitled The Fire Next Time.
Before reading the book, I as a Black American had never heard of James Baldwin.
But after I read a couple of his books I was shocked about how difficult it was to be a Black Man in America especially in the South in the 20th Century.
He really spelled it out graphically how tough it was for Black Americans in general and Black men in particular.
It was a rude awakening!!
One day while working part-time at a Financial Institution and still in College I recognized Mr Baldwin and went up to him, introduced myself and told him that I read a couple of his books including The Fire Next Time which I felt was an excellent book.
Mr Baldwin was kind and gracious. He was a nice Guy and he loved his people.
RIP Bruh James Baldwin.
🗣The struggle goes on into the 21st Century for Black Americans and for all people oppressed worldwide who are fighting for their Civil Rights and to not be treated as 2nd Class Citizens in their own Country.
I'm out!!
🗣♊️👤Rising
Great story
@djpaulcfunkeddub3951
Thank you for your kind words!!
Ayyyy! Much respect 2 ya!!
🤝
🗣♊️👤Rising
Every time I hear Buckley speak, my desire to not hate people becomes impossible
Baldwin's point about different realities is so clear. You can try on a man's shoes, walk a mile in them even, but you cannot grow into them the same way he did, from a barefoot baby in his mother's womb. Even the most understanding and empathetic white man _cannot_ experience that death of hope, that murder of your innocent childhood sense of self-worth, that occurs at "5 or 6 or 7" as Baldwin put it, when you see that this world is not meant for you.
You have to realize though that even Baldwin When I see people who completely cannot comprehend another's vastly different reality, and who go on to defend their own reality, I do not hate, but I have pity. And you have to realize that even Baldwin had realities he could not comprehend. He pointed out that even the most downtrodden white person could fall back on "At least I'm not black..." unable to acknowledge that even a black man could always say "At least I'm not a Native American" or "At least I'm not a black man in the Congo."
Everyone chooses which reality they wish to change, and which they wish to defend, or idealize, or try to create. To lose focus on your reality and acknowledge the one of someone whose reality is worse than yours is at best difficult, and at worst impossible, because as we've established, you cannot grow up in a whole life in another man's shoes. The excuses we make are manifold... just imagine the reasons Baldwin would give for not devoting his entire life to restoring all American soil to the hands of Native Americans. Such an "impossible dream" is the exact same perspective that white people like Buckley had when trying to comprehend Baldwin's dream of America. Something completely impossible that would upend the universe and be altogether not worth the effort, but we can at least help everyone be comfortable together inside the reality of _my_ choosing.
Intersectionality attempts to rectify this reality dissonance by simply saying, "Whichever majority power-holder is born from the intersection of all traits is the enemy which all other people must oppose." There is no endgame other than a vague Utopia of equity that will be achieved once the intersected root of all evils (i.e. White Christian Cisgender Heterosexual Males) loses its power. But like James Baldwin said... different realities.
One's reality can only truly be shattered by witnessing and being confronted by viewpoints that differ from their own. To force enough cognitive dissonance that the only option to retain sanity is to change one's mind. Cultural hammers like George Floyd's death and the aftermath must never be silenced. People need to be shaken out of their closed realities by the scruff of the neck. And then we need to find as much compromise as we can to get as close to as many realities that foster life and safety as we can. Share the speeches and events that rock your world and could help rock someone else's. Don't buy into the idea of hating someone who comes from a different reality, because changing _their_ mind makes them your strongest ally.
@@SomeTH-camTraveler cool rant bro, some good points, but at the end of the day, your whole argument can be applied to anyone, from Hitler to Mao. They also had different realities, should we just empathise and try to find a shared reality? Really, with people whose reality and ideal state includes our genocide, our enslavement? I don't want to hate, as I said in my comment, but some people do make it impossible. And I'm obviously not judging Buckley from this clip alone, I've heard him talk plenty of times and he's obnoxious in all of them. It wouldn't even matter if I somehow agreed with his views, his personality is still nauseating.
@@panosshady6168 Oh yeah, I can't stand the guy either, whether by his views, his mannerisms, or his ridiculous accent. But it's beside the point.
Yes Baldwin's idea of these alternate realities can be applied to anyone. What's important is that everyone be allowed a say in which realities deserve to win out.
It was so difficult to listen to Buckley speak after hearing James Baldwin cut through years of oppression and suppression. Both of their body language gestures were enough to make anyone cringe especially Buckley’s peacock gesture, as he places his hands on the back of his hips. I love hearing both speak but watching them speak tells me much more than their words can convey.