Great to see someone , finally , that understands correct neck relief. So many makers have the false impression that the curve should extend the whole fingerboard length. Together with the tendency for necks to take on a stress bend just before the body join , any bend above the 12th. fret will seriously limit the minimum action height. MY TIP : Use the string as a straight-edge by fretting at the 1st. and 12th.fret to check for relief also at the 10th. and highest fret to check for a ski-ramp . Don't pay a lot of money for any bass with any bend at all above the 12th. fret !
Very effective explanation for people to understand the importance of giving the strings appropriate room to fully vibrate in a manner that's as close to a happy medium as possible.
Finally explained in clear consice language. Now I know, I need fret relief to cure fret buzz. For weeks wondering how to get my neck straighter. My neck is now dead straight, which will be rectified TODAY. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks, never heard of this before. I've been aware that the neck of my bass bends upwards a slightest bit near the headstock, around the 5th fret. You really have to look closely to see it. I had already planned on straightening it. All these people on store reviews talk about how the neck of their bass is bent when they get them (Not saying there isn't total rubbish on the market). That really got me thinking mine could be faulty as well. Again, thank you.
Having a nice wash light opposite your viewing side of the fretboard, and holding the straightedge from first fret down, and tilting the bass just right so you truly see the relief on each fret is also enlightening. And to reduce confusion you can take tooth picks across all but one string at a time so that they don’t interfere with the perception of each individual string’s relief and relief profile, but slide them down towards the middle of the neck to reduce the influence of their newfound additional tension to a bare minimum, thereby retaining a very accurate view of the relief profile. At some point you’ll be able to leave the truss rod alone and use the bridge height adjustments more to set the lateral arch of the strings. I mean, who likes playing with their D string buried way below A and G? That’s madness. But when you’ve got that relief profile dialed in, you can get away with those types of adjustments without fret buzz issues. But of course you then change strings and all love is lost. Sorry.
I use to take things apart to see how they work when younger. I took my bass apart and put it back together , now I know how everything works. My Fender bass works perfect and I know how to do all adjustments from videos like this. Thanks Chris ,
Hey there, Scott, I just wanted to say that it was so cool meeting you in person at the Warwick open day. I know I'm late but better late than never. I just wish I had more time to talk to you. ^^ Cheers, Alex.
brilliant explanation! i always set the relief on my basses about 0,5 mm at the 12th fret when pressing the string at the 1ts and last fret. did Chris May tell how much relief he considers ideal?
Only problem is that if you use a regular straight edge that will not always tell you if the neck is really straight or not, because sometimes you might have some frets taller than then the other, that's why it is best to use a notched straight edge. If even after setting the neck with the notched straight edge the bass or guitar still buzzes, that means that a fret dressing is needed.
Yeah, I like notched straight edges. The thing is if you are trying to get it to play now, your frets being level with one another is the most important thing. If you are going to sand down your frets to be truly level with the fretboard, then you need to get the neck as straight as possible with the notched straight edge, then file down, shape, polish/dress frets. in reality, the string should never touch the wood of the guitar. the string is hanging like a bridge in a ravine, and if it touches the bottom, you built a weak bridge. this would mean you shaved the frets too low. to check if the frets are level, use a true straight edge and/or fret rocker.
Good info ! I to was not aware of neck relief. Thanks for passing this along, and please thank the other gentleman that is doing the demo in all the videos,plus any other team members that are working to put out such great tutorials. Thank you Thank you
People are very obsessed with getting there instruments/gear to sound technically perfect, but honestly the imperfections in the sound are what give it character in my opinion. Then again I play punk, and own probably the worst bass money can buy the neck is bowed, someone glued the truss rod in place, the pots are all scratchy, and it buzzes real bad but I absolutely love how it sounds.
With respect, setting the bass up correctly wont affect the way it sounds in terms of tone (that's a whole other debate lol!). What it will do is make the instrument more comfortable to play and stop the strings from buzzing and rattling in an unwanted way on the frets. What kind of idiot glued the truss rod? Seriously, some people shouldn't be allowed near plastic cutlery, never mind anything else!
+B-ball “Benny” Hard fall Fair point, I know what you mean about people getting anal about it, and if you like the sound of your bass as it is that's all that counts. I dare say it suits your type.of music a little better too. Funnily enough i was watching a video earlier on and there was a clip of Lemmy demonstrating the difference between most bass players' sound and his, he used masses of distortion so i dont think the odd bit of string buzz would have worried him either!
I agree that most guitars need a slight bow. I just set up my fender affinity and the frets are perfectly flush with one another. It is playing great. I thought for sure I was going to have to have some bow but the frets are just so level and working properly. If it isn't broke don't fix it?
Great video - thx Scott! What's important is that one should always see any given (factory)specs, gauge readings etc. as a starting point. There is no such thing as THE ideal amount of neck relief - it always depends on your playing technique and the sound you're after. Sometimes a small amount of fret buzz is even desirable, as it helps your bass cut through the mix, especially when playing somewhat heavier rock styles. It's almost like a built-in overdrive effect (for the lack of a better word). Hence I tend to set my bass necks almost dead straight. This way I get that gritty "rock" sound when diggin' in, and still have a clean tone when playing with a lighter touch... but then again, that's only me! ;-)
1 dollar for 14 days, 2 dollars a month? That's doable. I never bother with all the videos that direct me to a pay-site but $2 is OK. With enough users globally it works. $1 is like selling a recording on iTunes. Did you ever try the Ukelele-bass? I've seen it and it works despite it's hilariously short.
Fantastic!! After watching the video a question popped up in my head. How can you modify the neck relief? Is it also possible to change in Neckthrough basses?
So the curve at the headstock end of the neck on my sr300e *is* normal? Well damn that's good news but I still can't get my action low enough to slap or tap without the buzz. I also like to be able to pluck hard without buzzing so I guess it's just a matter of working on that truss rod more to do it's part.
I don't see how when you either create relief or make it straight that the relief is prior to the 5th - 7th fret. I always see the relief in the middle. So how do you get it before the 5th...?
If your neck is perfectly flat and has zero "neck relief" it can still have a excellent action that will be better than what most players have now. Meaning that most bass players are using a bass with less than great set up right now with a neck that isn't flat, so they can't worry about neck relief because their bass sucks right now any way. Most guitars and basses are set up with a nut that is too tall, which leads to a bridge that is to tall which equals horrible action, that equals a bass that sucks to play and the beginners quit or think they need a $1500 bass....which probably needs a proper set up too! Get a proper set up and don't even worry about this relief stuff for now.
You do need to know a bit more though... your average person doesn't hear that phrase and say "cool, now I'm totally confident adjusting my truss rod!". Plenty of experienced guitarists I know are barely confident changing strings, let alone doing a setup. Plus, some instruments defy the "rules of thumb" people set out... I've found on a lot of my guitars and basses that you have to forget any notion of what it "should" be, and just go with whatever lets you get the action as low as possible, with minimum buzzing.
This is so true. So many guitarists and bassists who are painfully afraid of having to maintain their instruments. In my experience: - Drummer that didn't know how to tune a drumset - guitarist who didn't know how to properly string their guitars (how to wrap around the tuners) - guitarist who has never changed their strings - (MANY) guitarists that don't know how to properly restring and set up a floyd rose (which in unbelievable, I accomplished a full restring in less than 20 minutes before rehearsal a few weeks ago. WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR OTHER PEOPLE?!) - bassists that didn't know how to use the string tree to stop their strings from slipping off the nut and subsequently the fretboard It really does come with time and practice more than anything, though. People are just too afraid to break the only instrument they have 9/10 times.
Ok, this is something that nobody ever seems to discuss and I cannot find anywhere......Fender vintage truss rod adjustment or more specifically, the use of the host body vs a surrogate body during adjustments. My recently acquired, pre-CBS '61 Jazz has no adjustment routing slot cut into the body, at the truss rod position under the pick guard. This does not allow me to engage the truss rod for adjustment, (though I see where there was a small attempt before). Therefore, I must either route the 61 body to reach the slots (yea, that's gonna happen) or the neck requires removal and reset on a surrogate body that has the routing present in order to adjust the neck......Does this mean that the bass neck will have to be restrung on the surrogate body for adjustment? My tech told me that not all Vintage Fender JB's are like that and that he would have warned me of this if he knew I was shopping.....Does that also mean my hard earned was wasted on a vintage 'Lemon"? And if this is also true, why is this the case....what was Fender thinking? As well (if true), this seems like a very important detail to leave out and have less than a footnote to the subject(?).....
+Michael Cabe You remove the strings and then loosen the neckplate screws, then you can tilt the neck back and you then have enough clearance to adjust the trussrod.
No need to remove the strings, just loosen them until they are slack. A capo at the first fret helps keep them tight on the tunes. Loosen the screws at the heel and tilt the neck back. Use a big screw driver.
With no strings on the instrument, get the neck perfectly straight. Once under the string tension the neck should relieve itself correctly in a normal situation. If it doesn't, take it to a professional to be corrected. That's all that needed to be said for a minute thirty second video instead of this drawn out process.
Great to see someone , finally , that understands correct neck relief. So many makers have the false impression that the curve should extend the whole fingerboard length. Together with the tendency for necks to take on a stress bend just before the body join , any bend above the 12th. fret will seriously limit the minimum action height. MY TIP : Use the string as a straight-edge by fretting at the 1st. and 12th.fret to check for relief also at the 10th. and highest fret to check for a ski-ramp . Don't pay a lot of money for any bass with any bend at all above the 12th. fret !
Very effective explanation for people to understand the importance of giving the strings appropriate room to fully vibrate in a manner that's as close to a happy medium as possible.
I'm so relieved that you made this video.
No, seriously. Thanks for the preview and the lesson!
My pleasure! :)
Neck relieved?
Finally explained in clear consice language. Now I know, I need fret relief to cure fret buzz. For weeks wondering how to get my neck straighter. My neck is now dead straight, which will be rectified TODAY. Thank you for sharing.
Fantastic lesson and explanation for us lay people who need to understand how our instruments work with maximum playability...
Thx so much....
The Best knowledge about Rod adjustment and neck relief. Lot os tutorials about it and this one really explains why. Great! Thanks!
Great master class on a crucial issue for bass players. Many thanks to you and Chris!
Thanks, never heard of this before. I've been aware that the neck of my bass bends upwards a slightest bit near the headstock, around the 5th fret. You really have to look closely to see it. I had already planned on straightening it.
All these people on store reviews talk about how the neck of their bass is bent when they get them (Not saying there isn't total rubbish on the market). That really got me thinking mine could be faulty as well.
Again, thank you.
Thanks for stopping my J.P :)
It's not supposed to be straight
Having a nice wash light opposite your viewing side of the fretboard, and holding the straightedge from first fret down, and tilting the bass just right so you truly see the relief on each fret is also enlightening. And to reduce confusion you can take tooth picks across all but one string at a time so that they don’t interfere with the perception of each individual string’s relief and relief profile, but slide them down towards the middle of the neck to reduce the influence of their newfound additional tension to a bare minimum, thereby retaining a very accurate view of the relief profile. At some point you’ll be able to leave the truss rod alone and use the bridge height adjustments more to set the lateral arch of the strings. I mean, who likes playing with their D string buried way below A and G? That’s madness. But when you’ve got that relief profile dialed in, you can get away with those types of adjustments without fret buzz issues. But of course you then change strings and all love is lost. Sorry.
it would really help a lot if you could post a tutorial video on how to adjust the neck to get that perfect relief
Great, educating video. I play bass for 6 years now and as starting bass player I would find that video great for bass sound and set up theory.
Thanks for stopping by man, glad you enjoyed it! :)
I use to take things apart to see how they work when younger.
I took my bass apart and put it back together , now I know how everything works.
My Fender bass works perfect and I know how to do all adjustments from videos like this.
Thanks Chris ,
Hey there, Scott,
I just wanted to say that it was so cool meeting you in person at the Warwick open day. I know I'm late but better late than never.
I just wish I had more time to talk to you. ^^
Cheers, Alex.
I like his chalk. It looks like a sharpie
Lol ;)
brilliant explanation!
i always set the relief on my basses about 0,5 mm at the 12th fret
when pressing the string at the 1ts and last fret.
did Chris May tell how much relief he considers ideal?
This honestly would have been nice to know. I use feeler gauges myself and check the 7th fret with 1st and 12th fretted
you can fret at different positions to observe the relief
Only problem is that if you use a regular straight edge that will not always tell you if the neck is really straight or not, because sometimes you might have some frets taller than then the other, that's why it is best to use a notched straight edge. If even after setting the neck with the notched straight edge the bass or guitar still buzzes, that means that a fret dressing is needed.
A *notched* straight-edge, and that's exactly what i was thinking.
Frets should be the same height. Right? Mine are the same, I hope that's okay.
Yeah, I like notched straight edges. The thing is if you are trying to get it to play now, your frets being level with one another is the most important thing. If you are going to sand down your frets to be truly level with the fretboard, then you need to get the neck as straight as possible with the notched straight edge, then file down, shape, polish/dress frets. in reality, the string should never touch the wood of the guitar. the string is hanging like a bridge in a ravine, and if it touches the bottom, you built a weak bridge. this would mean you shaved the frets too low. to check if the frets are level, use a true straight edge and/or fret rocker.
Sweet..I need to learn about this.
Excellent video! Thank you! Very useful tips!
Good info !
I to was not aware of neck relief. Thanks for passing this along, and please thank the other gentleman that is doing the demo in all the videos,plus any other team members that are working to put out such great tutorials.
Thank you Thank you
People are very obsessed with getting there instruments/gear to sound technically perfect, but honestly the imperfections in the sound are what give it character in my opinion. Then again I play punk, and own probably the worst bass money can buy the neck is bowed, someone glued the truss rod in place, the pots are all scratchy, and it buzzes real bad but I absolutely love how it sounds.
Every imperfection in an instrument just adds to the soul of it.
With respect, setting the bass up correctly wont affect the way it sounds in terms of tone (that's a whole other debate lol!). What it will do is make the instrument more comfortable to play and stop the strings from buzzing and rattling in an unwanted way on the frets.
What kind of idiot glued the truss rod? Seriously, some people shouldn't be allowed near plastic cutlery, never mind anything else!
Valveus yes a well set up bass plays better, and generally isn't shite, but it just doesn't have that grossness that I love
B-ball Hard fall
+B-ball “Benny” Hard fall Fair point, I know what you mean about people getting anal about it, and if you like the sound of your bass as it is that's all that counts. I dare say it suits your type.of music a little better too. Funnily enough i was watching a video earlier on and there was a clip of Lemmy demonstrating the difference between most bass players' sound and his, he used masses of distortion so i dont think the odd bit of string buzz would have worried him either!
Hi, just found your videos - great stuff, very helpful, interesting yet humorous: thanks! :)
I agree that most guitars need a slight bow. I just set up my fender affinity and the frets are perfectly flush with one another. It is playing great. I thought for sure I was going to have to have some bow but the frets are just so level and working properly. If it isn't broke don't fix it?
Fender affinity ? Poor guy...
Great video - thx Scott!
What's important is that one should always see any given (factory)specs, gauge readings etc. as a starting point. There is no such thing as THE ideal amount of neck relief - it always depends on your playing technique and the sound you're after.
Sometimes a small amount of fret buzz is even desirable, as it helps your bass cut through the mix, especially when playing somewhat heavier rock styles. It's almost like a built-in overdrive effect (for the lack of a better word).
Hence I tend to set my bass necks almost dead straight. This way I get that gritty "rock" sound when diggin' in, and still have a clean tone when playing with a lighter touch...
but then again, that's only me! ;-)
1 dollar for 14 days, 2 dollars a month? That's doable. I never bother with all the videos that direct me to a pay-site but $2 is OK. With enough users globally it works. $1 is like selling a recording on iTunes. Did you ever try the Ukelele-bass? I've seen it and it works despite it's hilariously short.
Fantastic!! After watching the video a question popped up in my head. How can you modify the neck relief? Is it also possible to change in Neckthrough basses?
Marcel Laborda ... neck relief is adjusted by the truss rod.
Truss rod + filling the last frets to make the flat area.
Gold
Hi Scott, could you tell what gauge of strings you use on your bass?
Thanks for sharing your experiences man.
A question : what's the difference between threading the strings through the body of my P5 as opposed to threading them through the bridge ?
So the curve at the headstock end of the neck on my sr300e *is* normal? Well damn that's good news but I still can't get my action low enough to slap or tap without the buzz. I also like to be able to pluck hard without buzzing so I guess it's just a matter of working on that truss rod more to do it's part.
I don't see how when you either create relief or make it straight that the relief is prior to the 5th - 7th fret. I always see the relief in the middle. So how do you get it before the 5th...?
scott cant see maintenance course on your site
Anyone know if different strings need different truss rod tension? Since different strings may create different tensions?
Use the "E" itself as a "straight edge".
If your neck is perfectly flat and has zero "neck relief" it can still have a excellent action that will be better than what most players have now. Meaning that most bass players are using a bass with less than great set up right now with a neck that isn't flat, so they can't worry about neck relief because their bass sucks right now any way. Most guitars and basses are set up with a nut that is too tall, which leads to a bridge that is to tall which equals horrible action, that equals a bass that sucks to play and the beginners quit or think they need a $1500 bass....which probably needs a proper set up too! Get a proper set up and don't even worry about this relief stuff for now.
With the way a truss rod works surely it's won't create the "ski" curvature he describes here? It will be more like the bow and arrow curve.
Truss rod + filling the last frets to make the flat area.
"Bass necks require a slight curve in order for the strings to vibrate correctly"......There! No need for the other 9 minutes of guff.
You do need to know a bit more though... your average person doesn't hear that phrase and say "cool, now I'm totally confident adjusting my truss rod!". Plenty of experienced guitarists I know are barely confident changing strings, let alone doing a setup.
Plus, some instruments defy the "rules of thumb" people set out... I've found on a lot of my guitars and basses that you have to forget any notion of what it "should" be, and just go with whatever lets you get the action as low as possible, with minimum buzzing.
This is so true. So many guitarists and bassists who are painfully afraid of having to maintain their instruments.
In my experience:
- Drummer that didn't know how to tune a drumset
- guitarist who didn't know how to properly string their guitars (how to wrap around the tuners)
- guitarist who has never changed their strings
- (MANY) guitarists that don't know how to properly restring and set up a floyd rose (which in unbelievable, I accomplished a full restring in less than 20 minutes before rehearsal a few weeks ago. WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR OTHER PEOPLE?!)
- bassists that didn't know how to use the string tree to stop their strings from slipping off the nut and subsequently the fretboard
It really does come with time and practice more than anything, though. People are just too afraid to break the only instrument they have 9/10 times.
that extra 9 minutes helped me realized my shitty squier neck is fucked soooooooooooo
Right
2 mm relief??? that's enormous! That neck would be unplayable. I think he means 2/10 of a mm
Hugh Jackman!?
I also thought that when he said huge action. :-)
Ok, this is something that nobody ever seems to discuss and I cannot find anywhere......Fender vintage truss rod adjustment or more specifically, the use of the host body vs a surrogate body during adjustments. My recently acquired, pre-CBS '61 Jazz has no adjustment routing slot cut into the body, at the truss rod position under the pick guard. This does not allow me to engage the truss rod for adjustment, (though I see where there was a small attempt before). Therefore, I must either route the 61 body to reach the slots (yea, that's gonna happen) or the neck requires removal and reset on a surrogate body that has the routing present in order to adjust the neck......Does this mean that the bass neck will have to be restrung on the surrogate body for adjustment? My tech told me that not all Vintage Fender JB's are like that and that he would have warned me of this if he knew I was shopping.....Does that also mean my hard earned was wasted on a vintage 'Lemon"? And if this is also true, why is this the case....what was Fender thinking? As well (if true), this seems like a very important detail to leave out and have less than a footnote to the subject(?).....
+Michael Cabe ( Neither does my Noel Redding signature Jazz Bass have the slotted body, but my '73 does.....WTF?
+Michael Cabe You remove the strings and then loosen the neckplate screws, then you can tilt the neck back and you then have enough clearance to adjust the trussrod.
No need to remove the strings, just loosen them until they are slack. A capo at the first fret helps keep them tight on the tunes. Loosen the screws at the heel and tilt the neck back. Use a big screw driver.
Scott!! Awesome :) Btw, what strings do you use in your basses? I know you use flat's sometimes.
Some people are good at what they do, but terrible at explaining... he's one of them 🤓
I know the principle, but I found chris may's delivery too distracting to define it simply and clearly.
God, he'd send a glass eye to sleep
3mm from the 12th fret the ocative maintaining that measurement on all strings...strings break !) My ground needs repaired again... bridge connection
Title should mention that it's half the lesson.
So if there is no buzz anywhere along the fretboard does it mean that the neck is straight?My basses have zero buzz.Nada.
No. Listen again.
Hugh Jackson??
August Thor ... what is, why your bass is like wolverine?
So my bass has an action of 6mm without pressing the strings I assume that is really bad
+GhostScruffy yes.
I don’t call it ‘neck relief’ I prefer calling it ‘Richard’
You are not required to use the full length of the string when using a string as a measuring tool, just say.
Think about it and let it sink in.
WOW ... 1 to 2 mm relief ?? that is unplayable imho!
I have 0,1 mm on my fretted and 0,07 mm on my fretless!
And that leaves room for your strings to vibrate? Yeah.
Well I have a light touch.
+pleximanic if you play near the bridge with an ultra light touch you could get away with this. most people couldn't though.
He must have meant 0,1- 0,2 mm..... 1-2 mm of relief is horrible....
Too complicated to be honest.......
With no strings on the instrument, get the neck perfectly straight. Once under the string tension the neck should relieve itself correctly in a normal situation. If it doesn't, take it to a professional to be corrected. That's all that needed to be said for a minute thirty second video instead of this drawn out process.
This is completely untrue.