Thanks for posting this amazing performance. I was working on the song today, and this has given me a new and welcome perspective. The slower tempo makes the song almost scary. I like it. Heine was a poet of many colors and moods, but I must say that all the old Germans I have studied with emphasized his love of humor and irony(for what it's worth). Thanks again!
La versión de Richard Tauber es extraordinaria, es una interpretación sublime y toda una creación, Bravo!!!!!! también mencionar al pianista, que es también extraordinario, los dos hacen un gran trabajo.
I think the same the version of Richard Tauber is amazing, and a great mention fot the pianist, he is really incredible good pianist! they do a wonderful great work. nicht zu schnell!!!! Bravo!
Quantz was one of the first modern composers to write of the connexion between our own heartbeat pulse and the meaning of Adagio ( =40 as a guideline), andante (=80 - an average and normal heart pulse - as a guideline), allegro (=120 as a guideline) and presto (=160 as a guideline). Thomas Morley (renaissance composer) also wrote about pulsation and rhythm.
correction -- I saw the snake that was feeding on your heart; "fressen" is the way an animal eats, not a human. What's great about this version is the suffering and hte waste -- "Ewig verlornes Lieb.' the versions that go too fast don't get the weight of the regret, it looks backward like Lot's wife.... he's not willing to let go -- and won't until the end, and even then, it's not over, any more than the first song, which closed on an irresolution. Eberhard Wachter sings it full of regret, GREAT
Grateful thanks to saiserieht for this. It's a rare singer who can take a very well known lied and give it a completely new expression. The pianist's super too.
Thanks for posting this. Fritz Wunderlich is good too (and also contemporary American Robert Sims)- but Richard Tauber....gives me the shivers each time. Let's not forget to mention Heinrich Heine, the poet who wrote the lyrics...the rejected lover, saying proudly: "I do not grudge (Ich grolle nicht) - even if my heart breaks!"
"in my dream I saw the snake that was eating at your heart' is what the singer is saying at hte peak of the song. In my ream is important -- the youth is romantic, an idealist, he does not want to hate the girl who is making him suffer so, he's right in hte middle of his pain here. hte emotion is very complex, pulling him in several directions at once. At the high note, on the word Herz [heart], the great Ernst Haefliger lets his voice crack -- in his version of Dichterliebe [not on youtube :(
@1401JSC Well it is very vague and no one knows. That is why there is a great spectrum of tempi in performances. I feel that it is often being performed "zu schnell" and I like Taubers approach.
@1401JSC The frequency of our footsteps is also surprisingly constant from one individual to the next, independent from how tall the person is. So heartbeat is not the only "pulse" there is in nature. Why do you think it says "andante"? Also lets stop this discussion, the heart does not beat regularly, especially when emotions play a role, you are essentially contradicting yourself.
@Schamschi Grolle nicht Schumann, "not too fast" means IMHO: sing it as fast as you feel it and then try slowing down a little. ;-) It's never a military order but a suggestion for maximum effect made by own experience while performing the piece.
@robincla Sorry, but it's really too obvious that the speaker/poet in this song (and for that matter, the whole song cycle) is alternatively angry at (and sentimental about) his beloved, that is, that he DOES bear grudges. No idea how you could interpret this otherwise...
@robincla What do you mean? It is insincere insofar as it's ironic: someone who's unforgivingly mad at someone else and claims he couldn't care less, so to speak. It's only at the end of the song cycle that the "poet" (narrator) decides to bury his wrath along with his love (again, so to speak) - we do not know whether or not he succeeds in becoming emotionally detached (or emotionally dead, as in disappointed by love and perhaps womanhood in general).
@1401JSC What is being expressed by 'rhythmic' playing? That you own a metronome? Tauber's performance is not arbitrarily nonrhythmic, there is only one way that is 'in time' and everyone can do it. Tauber is considered by many the greatest musician to ever become a singer, so you might consider that what he does might serve a purpose.
Actually, the tempo indication "not too fast" is a complete waste, because it is a tautology: Too fast = faster than it should be; Not too fast = as fast as it should be. So the tempo indication for this piece is "as fast as it should be". Great, thanks for the enlightenment, Schumann, this is really a meaningful directive and most helpful for interpreting this piece. Unless, of course, it means that, while it shouldn't be played too fast, it is acceptable to play it too slow. Wow, how sublime.
@saiserieht Why do you speak about a "great artist" to justify "unrhythmic"? I don't see the connexion.. If you can't even distinguish between the regular pulsation of a metronome (tool used by composers from Beethoven onwards) and the rhythm that has to be inserted within this cadre, then we can not have a dialogue.
@robincla You should learn to read the text and other people's replies before you answer. Irony is a way of saying what one does not think, or not think what one says. The very first line says it all, as the text reads: "Ich grolle nicht" (I bear no grudge). If you say the text is meant to be taken literal (and thanks for call my emotional repertoire limited - what does that make you?), you therefore claim the speaker/poet bears no grudge? Think again!
Was für einer schöne Stimme
Thanks for posting this amazing performance. I was working on the song today, and this has given me a new and welcome perspective. The slower tempo makes the song almost scary. I like it. Heine was a poet of many colors and moods, but I must say that all the old Germans I have studied with emphasized his love of humor and irony(for what it's worth). Thanks again!
Perfect tempo. Most others sing it too fast.
La versión de Richard Tauber es extraordinaria, es una interpretación sublime y toda una creación, Bravo!!!!!! también mencionar al pianista, que es también extraordinario, los dos hacen un gran trabajo.
I think the same the version of Richard Tauber is amazing, and a great mention fot the pianist, he is really incredible good pianist! they do a wonderful great work.
nicht zu schnell!!!! Bravo!
Идеально!!! Супер!!!
Tauber war ja wunderbar und diese Vorstellung ist ausgezeichnet *****
Wonderful! Thanks again:)
Quantz was one of the first modern composers to write of the connexion between our own heartbeat pulse and the meaning of Adagio ( =40 as a guideline), andante (=80 - an average and normal heart pulse - as a guideline), allegro (=120 as a guideline) and presto (=160 as a guideline).
Thomas Morley (renaissance composer) also wrote about pulsation and rhythm.
correction -- I saw the snake that was feeding on your heart; "fressen" is the way an animal eats, not a human. What's great about this version is the suffering and hte waste -- "Ewig verlornes Lieb.' the versions that go too fast don't get the weight of the regret, it looks backward like Lot's wife.... he's not willing to let go -- and won't until the end, and even then, it's not over, any more than the first song, which closed on an irresolution. Eberhard Wachter sings it full of regret, GREAT
Grateful thanks to saiserieht for this. It's a rare singer who can take a very well known lied and give it a completely new expression. The pianist's super too.
Thank you so much for this wonderful post!
Thanks for posting this. Fritz Wunderlich is good too (and also contemporary American Robert Sims)- but Richard Tauber....gives me the shivers each time. Let's not forget to mention Heinrich Heine, the poet who wrote the lyrics...the rejected lover, saying proudly: "I do not grudge (Ich grolle nicht) - even if my heart breaks!"
"Though you shine with a diamond's light/No gleam relieves thy heart's black night."
Interesting recording!
"in my dream I saw the snake that was eating at your heart' is what the singer is saying at hte peak of the song. In my ream is important -- the youth is romantic, an idealist, he does not want to hate the girl who is making him suffer so, he's right in hte middle of his pain here. hte emotion is very complex, pulling him in several directions at once. At the high note, on the word Herz [heart], the great Ernst Haefliger lets his voice crack -- in his version of Dichterliebe [not on youtube :(
Amazing
You're welcome! Thanks for commenting!
Interesting. So Tauber recorded 6 Lieder from Dichterliebe and 4 of them twice? That would mean that this recording was made in 1921.
The way the accompanist holds up the end of each bar to wait for the singer reminds me of the way Florence Foster Jenkins used to be accompanied.
@1401JSC Well it is very vague and no one knows. That is why there is a great spectrum of tempi in performances. I feel that it is often being performed "zu schnell" and I like Taubers approach.
@1401JSC The frequency of our footsteps is also surprisingly constant from one individual to the next, independent from how tall the person is. So heartbeat is not the only "pulse" there is in nature. Why do you think it says "andante"? Also lets stop this discussion, the heart does not beat regularly, especially when emotions play a role, you are essentially contradicting yourself.
@Schamschi
Grolle nicht Schumann, "not too fast" means IMHO: sing it as fast as you feel it and then try slowing down a little.
;-)
It's never a military order but a suggestion for maximum effect made by own experience while performing the piece.
@robincla Sorry, but it's really too obvious that the speaker/poet in this song (and for that matter, the whole song cycle) is alternatively angry at (and sentimental about) his beloved, that is, that he DOES bear grudges. No idea how you could interpret this otherwise...
@robincla What do you mean? It is insincere insofar as it's ironic: someone who's unforgivingly mad at someone else and claims he couldn't care less, so to speak. It's only at the end of the song cycle that the "poet" (narrator) decides to bury his wrath along with his love (again, so to speak) - we do not know whether or not he succeeds in becoming emotionally detached (or emotionally dead, as in disappointed by love and perhaps womanhood in general).
@1401JSC What is being expressed by 'rhythmic' playing? That you own a metronome?
Tauber's performance is not arbitrarily nonrhythmic, there is only one way that is 'in time' and everyone can do it. Tauber is considered by many the greatest musician to ever become a singer, so you might consider that what he does might serve a purpose.
@saiserieht
Actually nicht so schnell mean "not so fast".
Is it "zu" or "so"?
@robincla In other words, does you emotional repertoire dictate that you are sore and resentful, possibly shout and scream when you "bear no grudges"?
@maaateeen
I can, and have done and will do doubtless again!
What do you think is being expressed by unrhythmic playing?
@saiserieht
So what does "nicht zu schnell" mean?
How fast is too fast?
Actually, the tempo indication "not too fast" is a complete waste, because it is a tautology: Too fast = faster than it should be; Not too fast = as fast as it should be. So the tempo indication for this piece is "as fast as it should be". Great, thanks for the enlightenment, Schumann, this is really a meaningful directive and most helpful for interpreting this piece. Unless, of course, it means that, while it shouldn't be played too fast, it is acceptable to play it too slow. Wow, how sublime.
actually, it means: "not too fast" ;-)
@saiserieht
Why do you speak about a "great artist" to justify "unrhythmic"? I don't see the connexion..
If you can't even distinguish between the regular pulsation of a metronome (tool used by composers from Beethoven onwards) and the rhythm that has to be inserted within this cadre, then we can not have a dialogue.
@robincla You should learn to read the text and other people's replies before you answer. Irony is a way of saying what one does not think, or not think what one says. The very first line says it all, as the text reads: "Ich grolle nicht" (I bear no grudge). If you say the text is meant to be taken literal (and thanks for call my emotional repertoire limited - what does that make you?), you therefore claim the speaker/poet bears no grudge? Think again!
What is the basic tempo? Are there ever two successive bars which last the same time?
What did schumann say about rubato?
This is just awful.