@@yoso378 I hate the fact that P5 doesn't have a goddamn weather forecast, not even in Royal. It'd be so much better to plan not just Mementos but confidants as well since some of them are unavailable when it rains.
lol since P4 actually show you weather days, why i loved P4 more you can plan out your days out better then P5, P5 pretty much forced me to clear the palace as soon as possible which sucked, P4 i can wait until last day never suffered
Marin karin can actually be useful when you use it. It was the best way I found to beat the chariot floor boss on p3p maniac. That alone makes it better than the garbage in this video.
Marin Karin may be useless for us, but not for the enemies. Have you ever had Nix (in its final phase) hit your healer with it? I have...............................
Honestly, baiting Phanboys is the only way to get decent view counts these days so I don't really blame Nyarly. Also, seeing you kids whining about Mitsuru's Charm amuses me for some reason... :D
I like the Counter skills much better when they’re on party members, like in Persona 5 it’s kind of nice that Yusuke gets it, since party members can’t get Reflect Physical like the protagonist’s Personas can.
Yeah, that was my thinking. There’s really no reason to not have a party member like Chie use it, and have it come in handy once in a while. But yeah, it would be fairly useless on the mc.
@@madbrosheo1514 Wait, Chie gets it? I had no idea, but then again, I didn’t use her past the halfway point of the game, so I guess that’s not surprising.
That and with his Scoundrel Eyes ability in P5R he was constantly in my party. Combined with Makoto (Gaia Pact), even when the enemy resisted physicals, freeze-nuke-technical loop of fail ensued often enough :)
I remember getting Great Logos and thinking I was hot shit and then SHIVA rolled up and said "fuck your hard work" and basically trivialized Seraph. Oh well, at least Shiva is cool.
@@TupocalypseShakur I love the miniboss fight in SMT4 when you find the teleporter guard who summons Randga and Barong. After you beat them, he brags about how screwed you are, because "you know what happens when you fuse these two together!"
@@GambeTama I remember when I beat P3 but didn't get to fuse Shiva, so when I got to new game+ on a higher difficulty I fused him and just bulldozed my way through most of the game
@@TupocalypseShakur I remember watching a let's play of P4 where a guy was really bored, and did some farming in the Heaven dungeon on a stream once. He went in at a fairly low~average level you would be at for entering there. By the time the next episode of his lp came out, he had Shiva in his party and was yelling "No, I do NOT have a problem." he had completely forgotten why he was even in the dungeon, and wondered aloud why it was easy. His fans/chat gave him a great time after that. It was funny as hell, especially when pralaya got repelled back onto him and he got ANIHILLATED.
The suicide skills in nocturne. Specifically the one that attacks everyone *including yourself*. And since it's an almighty skill, you can't drain or resist it, so 9/10 times you get a game over screen
@Fanjanhong * well, I loved tactics, but I can understand why other people didn't. The AI in P3 had so many little secrets that could've been told to the player to make combat more organic. For example, you should really scan any enemy and boss, because even if the player doesn't get any info (every is marked with ?), the AI will know and won't use elements or status that won't affect it
The Tactics system feel like a bandaid on a flaw the developers didn’t think about feels like if just a little more control on the party like choosing skills for your party would have fixed some issues
The fact that you can't control your team members is the reason why the protagonist can use any weapon. In Portable you can control your party so they removed this feature; swords only for minato and spears only for minako.
@@Frost_Winterfall yeaahhh I only used Chile in my party because I romanced her on my second run but kanji literally is just better than her in every way lol. Her only saving grace is her endgame moves and it’s not worth it haha
BassoonPlatoon I always ran Yosuke, Yukiko, and Naoto for end game. Yosuke hit crits every other turn and has Youthful Wind, Yukiko cause she learns Salvation, and Naoto hit crits every other turn, inflicted ailments every other attack, and she has Mind Charge and Megidoloan
@@Frost_Winterfall I ran yukiko naoto and kanji yukiko for obvious healing naoto because I romanced her first run kanji because he's fucking awesome and stronks
Against a single target, no less. The only real use I see it a few reflect strategies, plus _maybe_ Reckoning Dice and Jotun of Grief (if you have a general magic-oriented stratrgy...or Thunder Reign)
Those spells are basically useless in the entire series outside of gimmick bosses like Kusumi-no-Okami and Masakado's Shadow that have hidden weaknesses to elemental spells once you nullify their immunities with break spells. those are the only two bosses I know of where the break spells are useful and they're downright required for the latter.
The only one that's really worth it is Elec Break, since you can use thunder reign/ thunder call to go Crit City against elec-resistant bosses. It was rly useful for the Hermit boss cuz I could keep my nul electric persona while spamming thunder reign. But then again, that's SUPER situational..
They are quite useful against some mid-game tartarus bosses, one of them is natural dancer since at 3x lv almost all persona with decent wind resistance are also focus on wind element themselves while those good at ice spells do not have very good resistance against wind, whenever I switch them in it always cast garudyne on me and take almost 70 % Hp in one hit. Finally I decide to use a seiryu with wind break, wind boost, and garula skills to beat it and the fight become very smooth as it nullfy almost all of its tricks and it also allow yukari to put some damage on it, I even manage to repel its magarudyne on himself when its wind resistance is gone and deal serious damage on it, so yeah these break skills may be clumsy to use, but they are not that useless acutally
Honorable mention: Salvation in SMTIV:A specifically. Having to Smirk to cure ailments is so fucking backward given that ailments remove and prevent Smirk, and in general it makes dealing with ailments without using Fiends and such a pain in the ass in that game
The virgin Marin Karin VS the chad Tentarafoo Like seriously, combined with MCs stangnant air, Mitsuru's almost garanteed tentarafoo makes random encounters easy and saves so much sp
Ok so I've recently learned that the demon talk skills in Nocturne can actually be incredibly useful. They work in fairly specific scenarios, like seduce is only effective when a female demon is talking to a male demon, but at those specific times they can allow you to completely bypass the recruitment conversation and just get that demon for free. I've found the most widely applicable one being brainwash as it makes grabbing lower level demons for specific fusion super easy.
Spirit drain is quite useful in the early to mid-game of persona 4 since it drain 30 SP from an enemy and only cost 3, overall you gain 27 SP, with this skill you could just blast every shadow you encountered with elemental skill and when your SP is low, go for a spirit drain in case your partner can hit the weakness for you, or simply go back to previous dungeon and suck SP from weak enemy and you can easily beat the dungeon in one day.
It's also the worst transferable skill in Dx2: there it costs 9 MP, 8 if you fully upgrade it (and unless you have some specific skills, the max MP a demon can have is 10, recovering 3 only per turn with no brands or specific skills), the amount of HP it heals is very low, the ability cleansing status effects is useless on any demon that isn't built to be almost completely immune to status ailments, and worst of all, what fully kills this skill, is that you can only use it up to 3 times per battle. Complete garbage.
I was about to say this one too. Only being able to cure ailments when you ARENT ailmented is such a stupid idea (Since you cant smirk when you have an ailment)
I don't like the way they locked traits like Antichthon's debuffs or Salvation's ailment healing behind Smirk. I can understand and appreciate the changes to the Light and Dark skills for the same reason I appreciate P5 bringing in Kouha and Eiha, but otherwise most of those effects are just bad.
One of my biggest gripes in that game + the fact that most skills received a mp cost increase and mp pools were nerfed in both Nanashi and the demons. I mean, wtf Salvation costs 100mp if you have 0 healing skills affinity and now you're telling me I have to use smile charge (50 mp at 0 buff affinity) or expect rng to bless me with a random smirk just to cure ailments? And don't get me started on mp recovery items because those got a massive nerf too: fixed amount of recovery...
Oracle is the definition of last resort. Like, literally. The move is coded to have its best effects when the party is about to die, and its worst when you're doing good
There is one surrounded-only skill that's decent in P5R: Thermopylae is a full-party Heat Riser that can be combo'd with the Vitality of the Tree trait (from Attis) for use in any fight. It's a third the cost of Hyakka Ryouran, which does the same, and can be gotten way earlier. (The one advantage to the latter is it's unique to Yusuke, meaning if you're running him and need Joker to do something else you can do that. What else do you need Yusuke's sp for anyway, ice?)
2:00 Dionysus's wine party actually helped me a lot with some of the late game's negotiations, it's extremely useful and saves up a lot of hassle with recruitment
The nocturne conversation skills can actually be used to completely skip some encounters depending on what demon uses it. For example: Setanta will just give you and item and leave if Scthatch talks to him.
In nocturne there is a few unique dialogs between demons and they give some really good items like soma and stat incense which means while niche still has its uses
The ambush skills in P5 are saved by a passive in royal that always activates them. This gives you access to the party-wide Luster Candy equivalent buff skill at all times. So they're pretty nice I think
Traits in P5R were a neat idea, kinda like Abilities in Pokémon. My only gripe is that it was a stright advantage over your enemies. If I were to bring back Traits in a Persona or Mainline game, I would make sure that the enemies all had traits, too.
@@forcelightningcable9639 True. Even something as simple as your bullets refilling at the end of battle is super useful, especially early on. I suppose one meh mechanic added was Futaba using the Jazz Club allows her to learn Debuff skills.
The demon talk skils from SMT 3 do indeed help. They can add additional chances to recruit a demon, reduce how much a demon ask you for stuff and change negative answers to neutral ones. I wouldn't go out of my way to keep or search those skills out but if your demons have them. Then use them.
Some more I wanted to throw in: Strange Journey-Horn of Fate: This is a skill that randomly casts Mahamaon or Mamudoon when you pick it. That doesn't sound too bad, but it's the signature move of Trumpeter, who's, you know, level 83. That's WAY after you get Mahamaon and Mamudoon for your demons. Oh, and it has a 10% chance to target you instead of the enemy, it's hard for the MC to be immune to both at the same time, and the MC dying in the original Strange Journey (before Redux added March to Death) means instant game over. To my knowledge, this is the one skill that can just instantly kill you for picking it. Persona 5: Divine Judgement and Demonic Decree. So, these two skills, for the cost of 48 SP, cut the health of an enemy in half and they don't work on bosses (when you use them, that is). Here's the thing: Hamaon and Mudoon are better than them, and they're already in a game where they're not as good Kougaon and Eigaon (not that they're bad, but you can't instant-kill everything). Hamaon and Mudoon, assuming they have the same chances as Persona 4, have a 60% chance to kill the enemy, so they have a higher expected value in damage than Divine Judgement and Demonic Decree. Because Hamaon and Mudoon have a 60% chance to take 100% of the enemy's health, that's effectively 60% enemy's health on average. Then, there's the issue with Hama and Mudo Boost increasing the chances of those activating. Also, Hamaon and Mudoon cost only 15 SP (less than a third of Divine Judgement and Demonic Decree), and, of course, Hamaon and Mudoon have multi-target versions. Persona 4: -Trafuri: Just buy a smoke ball. -Traesto: Just buy a Goho-M.
I use them for insta-recruit uses. Brainwash lets you auto-recruit demons levels 10 lower than the base demon. You can quite easily fuse those lower level demons into much stronger demons or Mitama/Elements.
Yes, I have actually used those Demon Conversational skills. They make it easy to replace your good demons at the beginning of each run. They also give you a second chance if you screw up and pick the wrong answer when trying to recruit demons.
Here’s a Persona Challenge you could do… It’s always bothered me how Lavenza lost to Yaldabaoth when he attacked the Velvet Room prior to the story in Royal, despite supposedly being more powerful than him (she’s a Velvet Sibling, so her stats are really high and she uses Multiple Personas) So it got me thinking: Can you beat Persona 5 Royal using Lavenza’s Persona Roster? Rules: - you can only use the following Personas throughout the playthrough: Kelpie, Berith, Inugami, Oni, Mithras, Atavaka, Thor, Nue, Lucifer - no glitches and/or exploits - times when you’ll be forced to use another Persona will not count (such as the Prologue) - should the challenge be successful, a bonus quest the player can take is to see if it’s possible to beat Lavenza using Lavenza’s Persona Roster
Thermopylae is when you ambush something, which, especially late game, essentially just makes it a better 1 slot invigorate + regenerate outside of boss fights, which, outside of our good friend The Traitor and the base final boss, only happen on separate days where you can do the boss at full health anyways The skills nyarly was talking about is when you GET ambushed I know this is a 6 month old comment and probably a joke but I'm bored
@@Terumimi i think you’re thinking of the wrong skill. Thermopylae gives heat riser to the entire party, but only works when you’re being ambushed. You’re thinking of the skill “Heat up”
The viles actually have some cool tech you can use them for, such as hitting the meatball without lowering the bridges in most day 7s or Yuzu day 8, or using them in 2 to deal with the Megrez buds more effectively. I’d say the far worse race in those games are heroes or divines, especially due to the prevalence of drain tactics
When your actually in control of mitsuru it’s useful. Playing P3P right now and it feels like it has ok accuracy and charming enemies can help a lot, especially when they have few weaknesses or a weakness that I can’t attack witj
It's not a bad skill and it can actually help in a lot of situations. The meme is that she uses it way to often and at the worst possible times which a) is an ai issue and b) can be basically negated with proper use of tactics (or completely avoided in p3p).
Recently replayed Devil Survivor and Chaos Wave was actually amazing on my run! I countered the mov loss with Devil Speed which increases mov to 7. Didn't have to worry about dying from no extra turns because the enemies couldn't fight back when they only had 1 range, and when they also had 3 range their own chaos wave meant they also had no extra turns. Devil Speed + Chaos Wave effectively gives you 10 spaces of range which is useful for all the missions that require you reach something quick
Damn, that skill is mad useless. In Nocturne I remember getting that on Yatagarasu and I had the pleasure of having infinite mana and health by just getting a demon to revive that bird over and over.
@@wizz-sanyt596 Do you know the Hardtype Mod for Nocturne? Recarmdra is completely bugged in this mod, because the user doesn't die after using it. If you fuse a demon with Life Drain + Recarmdra = infinite MP for the party.
If the MC is immune to whatever the enemy is using, then it can be useful to keep the rest of the party alive, and have them do the dirty work. Other than that, yeah, not a good idea.
what about zan-ei in persona 3? i mean, getsu-ei is kinda useful, since it can be used against the full moon bosses, but zan-ei boosts its power during new moon, which really isn't a special event. I don't think I've ever been in tartarus during a new moon.
The buff doesn't apply exclusively to Full/New Moons. The closer you are to a Full Moon, the more powerful Getsu-ei is, with its power peaking ON a Full Moon. The same applies to Zan-ei, First Quarter is more powerful than Full Moon, but New Moon is more powerful than First Quarter, for instance
At least there was Attis' ability in persona 5 royal that allowed you to use any skill exclusive to being surrounded no matter what. Which allowed skills like thermoplyae to be absurdly overpowered
I actually really like the Chaos Wave skill. One of my favorite things to do in the Devil Survivor games was to set up a barricade with one or two party members, and then have another use Chaos Wave to attack from a save distance.
Yeah, you're right. Like there is little to no enemies that use angry ailment to my party(at least to me since I still training for Chariot and Justice Shadow)
@@joshuaarceo9938 Jin from Strega, specifically in your 2nd encounter with him, can actually put Rage on everyone, which actually is an auto win for you
The Nocturne talk skills were always pretty great for me. Supposing you used the right talk skill against the right enemy, it becomes incredibly easy to recruit and get valuable items. I was getting given great chakras and diamonds on the regular and hardly ever got turned down. Thats an even bigger deal on hard mode. So i definitely wouldnt agree with you saying theyre useless, however I WOULD prefer that talk skills were just something innate that your demons could do based on their race or something, as opposed to taking up my skillslots.
Well there are special one time conversations certain demons in nocturne have with each other such as Odin or Thor talking to Loki, and these conversations do get you some rare items as rewards.
I've just started playing Nocturne HD for the first time ever and I use the skills that help you with conversations all the time. I have even one demon especially for recruiting other demons. Conversations are such a pain in the ass in this game, that without the help of Dionysus and his wine skill or nagging demons in my party, I don't know if I'de be able to ever get the trophy for 30 demons recruited.
There's a niche case to use Great Logos/Megidolaon over Antichton in SMT IV, because how the AI works, you don't actually want to drop the stats of smarter bosses that have Dekunda to -3, because they will almost always use it inmediately, so in those scenarios you want to keep them at -2 constantly so they're way less likely to use it
I'm just gonna leave all non-instakill offensive magic in SMT2 other than Holy Wrath. They just... don't do more than 30 damage no matter how much magic or int you have.
The talking skills in nocturne can be great. Some of the stronger ones will straight up instantly recruit a demon without any negotiation saving you time and resources in getting demons. I remember one in particular ( brainwash iirc) working automatically recruiting almost every time. Another that I remember being good was Valkyrie had a unique one for recruiting"warriors" and it would always work when used on one of those. Both of these recruitment moves had unique dialogue compared to talk as well.
Brainwash was probably the only useful conversation skill for Nocturne which had multiple uses. 1) It was very powerful for recruiting demons if you had a super high level demon. 2) If you gave that to a special demon like Uriel(who already has it as default) he always gets a special dialogue option where he will always get a powerful item or gem from any Angel he talks to(random encounters only, obviously). A lot of other demons have special dialogues, here are a few of them: Shive - any naga; Uriel, Raphael, Michael - any angel; Cerberus/Orthrus/Chimera - Orthrus/Cerberus; Khali - Dakini;
Tetracoerce/Makaracoerce may be bad in SMT, but I think it's worth mentioning how their equivalents (Tetra/Makara Break) are even worse in the Persona series. Since there's no Press Turn system, doing the worst-case move of smacking the barrier and taking the reflect on the chin doesn't cost you multiple turns, and it's usually possible to do so with minimal/no damage taken in return. In P5, all your party members Null their own element at max Confidant rank, making attacking into Makarakarn not much of an issue, and for Tetrakarn, you can just fire one bullet at it and take minimal reflected damage. Also, I'd love to see a reverse of this: most useful skills. Or if that's too obvious, skills that are more useful than they look.
As funny as it may sound as a joke, that's actually awful. Go see your son getting born. Seeing Nyarly's videos can be done anytime. Seeing your own flesh and blood born is priceless and it doesn't come often!
In devil survivor you still get extra turns if you're in "melee combat" you only lose the extra turns if you engage in any of the extra distance. I dunno, mixing vile demons with the ones that increases speed usually works well for me
In regards to the SMT3 Demon Talk Skills, there's an argument to be made for Beseech, because Shikigami has it by default and he's only Lvl 04, meaning it's very likely to work on most Demons from, like, Ikebukuro onward. Still that's, like, the only one that's particularly useful.
Brainwash (learned by Power) is pretty good, almost guaranteed to work if the talker is 10 levels higher than the target demon. Useful for recruting weaker demons if you want to save money. I want to mention Death Pact (exclusive to Mithra) too, but you get it so late in the game. At this point it's always better to obtain strong demons via fusion rather than negotiation.
@@si-level Yeah, you're right. I actually discovered these exploits by watching Jim Reaper's Low Level playthroughs. I didn't mention Pester because it's not really necessary to farm Megido Rocks and Magic Mirrors to beat the game, they are very situational items.
@@96Vladek The only time I can think of where farming a Megido Rock in SMT3 is useful is in the first trip through the Amala Network, where it'll one-shot the Specter's little clones.
Depends, end game demons like Arioch, Seth, and Nyarlateph are absolute monsters who can tank hits, but yeah, the Dragon Race can get insane sniper range, it just put's the Vile Race out of work.
I gotta say at least Chaos Wave is not as much useless as it is just not as great as it should be. I have never encountered one situation where Bind or Evil Bind was useful to the player
In the Nocturne speedrun, pester is used to get a megido rock in the first visit to Amala, which pretty much skips the boss entirely, so... yes! They have a (niche and unreliable) use!
Status effects tend to shit but Royal had buffed them. That was neat early game, but felt pointless by the third dungeon. Eh, better that then in P3 where they never land but they seem to always hit your party
A few skill suggestions if an SMT V update comes: 1. the base charge skills, charge and concentrate. before they were pretty neat, and a borderline essential skill, because it would more than double your next attack's power, and save you a bit of MP, so it was a really great skill to have. In SMT V however...they only raise it up by about 1.8x. that seems like a good deal around mid-game, but in my opinion? the better you manage your MP in general, and have better access to MP saving things, the more useless it becomes. Essentially? you deal less damage than If you had just attacked twice. a way better alternative is critical aura. Essentially? you're applying the 1.8x buff already by using the move, and ensuring that the attack doesn't miss. And plus, with the fact that it's a guaranteed critical hit, you can give yourself another turn, allowing for even more long-term damage for less MP, especially when said attack is one where it has a greater effect when it crits, AND if you give said demon critical zealot...that demon's target isn't gonna be a target for very long. (Which is why fionn mac chumhaill is one of my favorite demons in smt v so far) 2. Souffle D'eclair. It's not that it's a bad skill, but it's one of those scenarios where it's on a demon where it can't get any good use out of it. Souffle D'eclair is a magical attack, which loup-garou is a strength-focused demon...I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going with this. 3. The single-ally buffs such as (Taru/Raku/Suku)kaja. Yes, even the ones that raises a stat twice. (not the single enemy debuffs, those are great on bosses and help conserve mp through a good amount of the game) This is really just a matter of preference for me, but with how much they changed buffs and debuffs in SMT V, Those skills don't exactly hold much value. Yes you get them early on in the game before you get access to the multi-ally buffs, but even during the early game it isn't very useful at all considering in order to properly utilize buffs, your entire party needs to be buffed for this sort of thing to actually matter. this in turn also heavily nerfs red capote, to the point to where it's way less powerful of a skill.
I got a lot of use out of single targe tarukaja at least, just buff the strongest character before you pop an omagatoki critical for even more damage, also in some bosses I used single target rakukaja alongside taunt to concentrate the damage
Pretty late game in Persona 5 Royal, if you can get a Persona with the trait "Vitality of the Tree" (such as Attis to start but it can be transferred through fusion), which "Allows use of skills only available when surrounded under normal conditions", it makes the "surrounded only" skills a lot better. Why would you bother when there's already versions of those skills you can use outside of being surrounded? Mostly for one skill: Thermopylae, which increases the full party's attack, defense, and speed/evasion for three turns for a measly 30sp. ...or you could use Orpheus (Female)'s Neo Cadenza which does all of that on top of healing %50 health, for 24sp, doesn't require Vitality of the Tree, and is available at the beginning of the game. Ah well.
When you ask whether the devs didn't think of High Counter being bad in Persona 4, i'm pretty sure they decided to merge all Physical attacks sometime late in development because they left all skills there. For example you have both Bash, Cleave and Skewer (probably renamed from Single Shot i guess) which in P3 used to be strike, slash and pierce respectively, but all of them are in P4 with the exact same description "Deals light Phys damage to 1 foe.". There is a minuscule difference in terms of damage and HP cost but the tooltip doesn't mention it anyway. This is the same for all tiers of skills, all of them have 3 skills with the exact same description, they just forgot to remove them. I started playin persona in P4G and I was so confused when choosing physical skills but it all made sense when I played P3, I wonder why they didn't fix this at all in Golden
I find the move seduce useful in Nocturne because in my playthroughs I usually make the Demi-Feind a physically attcking tank. So seduce makes it so that I can try recruiting demons way before it gets to his turn. So in my opinion at least seduce isn't useless.
Also funny thing about only covering P3-5 is there's one skill I would say is this in P1. The Megido line. Not because the spells suck for any reason, Nuke (not Almighty in this game oddly which Frei takes up in P5) but because of how EXP works in P1. The more contribution to a battle a party member has, the more of the EXP spread they get. Which means if you Turn 1 annihilate the entire enemy party? Only one character gets EXP. Oops.
...ok while you do have a point about surrounded-only skills in P5, I played Royal and kept passing down the "Vitality of the Tree" trait so Thermoplyae was always available. Easy stat buffs at the beginning of every battle. And I think it's a bit unfair to show High Counter on Yusuke's Persona since he doesn't get reflect Phys. Nor does any party member in 5. For Joker's Personas, yeah, I never use it Anyway, I've only played P5R and S so this was still an interesting video.
Yes, I did get use out of the demon conversational skills in SMT3. I found that sometimes, I didn't have enough turns to switch to Demi-fiend and use Talk, so having Seduce or Plead (depending on what I needed) made it efficient.
for the demon conversations part Mitrha is the only demon to learn the skill death pact. what death pact does if the demon doesn't join your party it is now have the stone status for free and demons generally join because of this. I think this doesn't work on demons that can't talk like foul or demons you can't normally talk to anyways like tyrant or raptor race. Another great video Nyarly!
saw this video pop up in my recommendations, and I'd like to note a very useless skill from smt imagine since i didn't see it mentioned which is self-destruct. Certain demons will carry it whether you fused for it or recruited it, and if you aren't aware of how to turn off melee skills, or if the demon is focused on melee skills, 9/10 you'd be screwed out of a demon because sometimes it'll use that by default instead of other attacks. The ReImagine server somewhat fixes this by letting you level demons by another means so you can replace the skill, but at that point unless you're absolutely attached to the demon, you might as well use a different demon that doesn't have it.
I have to mention Yukari's Basic Attack in Persona 3 Portable because she can't hit the broadside of a barn thankfully Reload did thankfully solve that issue and she rarely misses and it was night and day difference on Floor 5 going from Almost Dying to easily crushing them because i could chain "1 Mores" so much easier Also another infamous P3FES/P3P era move that got buffed to usable in Reload - The one and only Marin Karin
I think a case can be made for one of the ambush skills in P5R. Thermopiles raises all that stats of all allies. Sure, there's another skill that does that, on the tier 3 Persona of Yusuke, but first well, tier 3 Persona, point at which you need to get, and it consumes a shot ton of MP. Thermopiles has none of this disadvantages and, well, there's a Persona ability to get around that.
Spirit Drain can actually be really useful if you run outta SP and don't wanna use the clock. Go to lower levels with weaker enemies and, even though it's a long chore, you can restore your SP for virtually no cost.
To answer your question I do use one or two interrogation skills Detain and intimidate But I do see your point I would rather have a integration skill inserted into the demons appearance or mythology, so wouldn’t have to waste a slot on a skill I don’t use
You get 3 sp. It costs 4 and you get 7, so the output is 3. You can bring it to 2 with spell master, so you "CAN" get 5 if you're that thirsty. But it's still worthless
I still find light and dark instakill skills relatively useless when you consider that there is still accuracy and evasion factored in for enemies who are weak to them
Thank you for the video. I will say Antichthon shouldn't be overused or relied on. Debuffing a boss too much can trigger then to remove their debuffs or your buffs thus cucking you. Some bosses are less likely to respond with 1-2 debuff stacks on them. Most up to 3. Any further and your just begging for the AI to use Silent Prayer immediately. lol
Talking about DeSu? Chaos Wave is *fucking amazing*. In DeSu 1 its uncontested. In DeSu 2 its only beaten out by the Dragon family's ability which must be activated instead of being passive. In either case it gives you the ability to absolutely decimate opponents before they even get the chance to consider striking back. Chaos Wave turns your team into a group of snipers. Its bad if you get surrounded but otherwise you can generally nuke the enemy before the can even respond properly. It is *extremely bad* for some specific story fights, but that's a rare circumstance.
Marin Karin is wonderful and you can fight me ( mind you I only say that because I think it's a really funny to seduce an enemy in the middle of combat)
Marin Karin is not useful in p3 and p4. In persona 5 games there a lot better given you have you have a higher chance to land and psy skills give tenchical damage when they inflicted by aliments(especially in royal and strikers).
I know right >> The only time Kamui Miracle does good for me is knocking my enemies down lol. That's all. Meanwhile it always does negative stuffs to my party... This is so far when I play the game with it.
Nearly threw hands at you when you said drain skills are bad. I put them back when you said in Persona. I love drain skills especially in Desu 1,2 and SMTIV, and SMTIVA
I'd say the P5 counter skills aren't so bad because you can start getting them relatively early, iirc. I see them the same way I see the lower tier damage spells; decent temporary skills to hold me over till I can get the strong one.
Some skills even if they're considered meh can be upgraded through skill morphing My favorite example of this is Dominion in SJR with Recarmdra being able to morph into Antichthon
The funny thing is that P5's weather- based passives would have been incredible in P4...
Because like 2/3rds of the game and the main plot revolves around terrible weather I take it.
@@UltimaKeyMaster that and there's a weather forecast so you can plan around it.
@@yoso378 I hate the fact that P5 doesn't have a goddamn weather forecast, not even in Royal. It'd be so much better to plan not just Mementos but confidants as well since some of them are unavailable when it rains.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 i keep a voodoo child persona on me so the effects are on 24/7 except for rain
lol since P4 actually show you weather days, why i loved P4 more you can plan out your days out better then P5, P5 pretty much forced me to clear the palace as soon as possible which sucked, P4 i can wait until last day never suffered
> Mitsuru on the thumbnail
> Marin Karin isn't mentioned
Someone was threatened with execution, huh?
Marin karin can actually be useful when you use it.
It was the best way I found to beat the chariot floor boss on p3p maniac.
That alone makes it better than the garbage in this video.
Marin Karin may be useless for us, but not for the enemies.
Have you ever had Nix (in its final phase) hit your healer with it?
I have...............................
Mitsuru can execute me anytime she likes
Yes. I threatened him. With Marin Karin. And he listened to me because of the Marin Karin
Honestly, baiting Phanboys is the only way to get decent view counts these days so I don't really blame Nyarly.
Also, seeing you kids whining about Mitsuru's Charm amuses me for some reason...
:D
i feel like mitsuru on the thumbnail gave 20% more views
I mean, Mitsuru has probably burned more turns than any other party member or demon in the franchise.
@@demi-femme4821 Imagine if Walter was able to take your turns in smt iv...
just one more piece of evidence that persona fans are waifu/meme hungry. not all of them- but most.
Mitsuru best girl
MARIN KARIN
I like the Counter skills much better when they’re on party members, like in Persona 5 it’s kind of nice that Yusuke gets it, since party members can’t get Reflect Physical like the protagonist’s Personas can.
Yeah, that was my thinking. There’s really no reason to not have a party member like Chie use it, and have it come in handy once in a while. But yeah, it would be fairly useless on the mc.
@@madbrosheo1514 Wait, Chie gets it? I had no idea, but then again, I didn’t use her past the halfway point of the game, so I guess that’s not surprising.
@@eclecticspaghetti She does in the PlayStation 2 version at least. Don’t know about Golden.
@@madbrosheo1514 She gets it in Golden. She actually gets both counter and high counter
That and with his Scoundrel Eyes ability in P5R he was constantly in my party. Combined with Makoto (Gaia Pact), even when the enemy resisted physicals, freeze-nuke-technical loop of fail ensued often enough :)
I remember getting Great Logos and thinking I was hot shit and then SHIVA rolled up and said "fuck your hard work" and basically trivialized Seraph. Oh well, at least Shiva is cool.
Let's be real, that happens to basically anything when Shiva rolls in.
@@GambeTama Shiva trivialises any playthrough, it's like getting Odin both somehow deadlier
@@TupocalypseShakur I love the miniboss fight in SMT4 when you find the teleporter guard who summons Randga and Barong. After you beat them, he brags about how screwed you are, because "you know what happens when you fuse these two together!"
@@GambeTama I remember when I beat P3 but didn't get to fuse Shiva, so when I got to new game+ on a higher difficulty I fused him and just bulldozed my way through most of the game
@@TupocalypseShakur I remember watching a let's play of P4 where a guy was really bored, and did some farming in the Heaven dungeon on a stream once. He went in at a fairly low~average level you would be at for entering there. By the time the next episode of his lp came out, he had Shiva in his party and was yelling "No, I do NOT have a problem." he had completely forgotten why he was even in the dungeon, and wondered aloud why it was easy.
His fans/chat gave him a great time after that. It was funny as hell, especially when pralaya got repelled back onto him and he got ANIHILLATED.
The suicide skills in nocturne. Specifically the one that attacks everyone *including yourself*. And since it's an almighty skill, you can't drain or resist it, so 9/10 times you get a game over screen
Tarukaja + focus + kamikaze = huge damage at the cost of the demon.
@@sendouvincent8232 problem is= Kamikaze also hits you. So you also kill demifiend in the process
@@theermac6024 No, Kamikaze is the single target mega damage one. That one actually is okay.
The one you're thinking of is Last Resort.
@@demi-femme4821 oh my b, been a while
@@theermac6024 as mentioned above, kamikaze only hits one enemy. Since it's a physicaly based almighty skill, taru x2 at least and focus will hit hard
You can always tell who leaves Mitsuru on Act Freely instead of Full Assault.
Knock down is usually best for normal battles. But yeah, for bosses, Full Assault is the way to go
@Fanjanhong * well, I loved tactics, but I can understand why other people didn't.
The AI in P3 had so many little secrets that could've been told to the player to make combat more organic. For example, you should really scan any enemy and boss, because even if the player doesn't get any info (every is marked with ?), the AI will know and won't use elements or status that won't affect it
The Tactics system feel like a bandaid on a flaw the developers didn’t think about feels like if just a little more control on the party like choosing skills for your party would have fixed some issues
@Fanjanhong * I enjoy tactics on P3
Guess I am a nobody
The fact that you can't control your team members is the reason why the protagonist can use any weapon. In Portable you can control your party so they removed this feature; swords only for minato and spears only for minako.
*"THIS ENDS NOW!"*
Not for the enemies, but for the party, especially Door-kun who desperately needed some healing...
And thus, he never saved the world and died.
Thought for a second this was a Fire Emblem Fates reference. I read that in Yuri Corrin's voice.
“I’ll show you my true power!”
**Yukari proceeds to miss a melee attack**
The useless skills were the friends we made along the way!
....because you're gonna bench most of them, lol
I don't even know why P5 even bothered to give me anyone other than Haru, Ann, and Ryuji. By the end game, they're my main team every time.
The fact that I used Naoto far more than Chie, Kanji, and Teddie combined
@@Frost_Winterfall yeaahhh I only used Chile in my party because I romanced her on my second run but kanji literally is just better than her in every way lol. Her only saving grace is her endgame moves and it’s not worth it haha
BassoonPlatoon I always ran Yosuke, Yukiko, and Naoto for end game. Yosuke hit crits every other turn and has Youthful Wind, Yukiko cause she learns Salvation, and Naoto hit crits every other turn, inflicted ailments every other attack, and she has Mind Charge and Megidoloan
@@Frost_Winterfall I ran yukiko naoto and kanji
yukiko for obvious healing
naoto because I romanced her first run
kanji because he's fucking awesome and stronks
How about the elemental break spells in Persona 3? OH BOY, LEMME WASTE HALF MY MP FOR THREE TURNS OF NEUTRAL DAMAGE
Against a single target, no less. The only real use I see it a few reflect strategies, plus _maybe_ Reckoning Dice and Jotun of Grief (if you have a general magic-oriented stratrgy...or Thunder Reign)
Those spells are basically useless in the entire series outside of gimmick bosses like Kusumi-no-Okami and Masakado's Shadow that have hidden weaknesses to elemental spells once you nullify their immunities with break spells. those are the only two bosses I know of where the break spells are useful and they're downright required for the latter.
The only one that's really worth it is Elec Break, since you can use thunder reign/ thunder call to go Crit City against elec-resistant bosses.
It was rly useful for the Hermit boss cuz I could keep my nul electric persona while spamming thunder reign. But then again, that's SUPER situational..
it more like super situational rather than useless
They are quite useful against some mid-game tartarus bosses, one of them is natural dancer since at 3x lv almost all persona with decent wind resistance are also focus on wind element themselves while those good at ice spells do not have very good resistance against wind, whenever I switch them in it always cast garudyne on me and take almost 70 % Hp in one hit.
Finally I decide to use a seiryu with wind break, wind boost, and garula skills to beat it and the fight become very smooth as it nullfy almost all of its tricks and it also allow yukari to put some damage on it, I even manage to repel its magarudyne on himself when its wind resistance is gone and deal serious damage on it, so yeah these break skills may be clumsy to use, but they are not that useless acutally
Honorable mention: Salvation in SMTIV:A specifically. Having to Smirk to cure ailments is so fucking backward given that ailments remove and prevent Smirk, and in general it makes dealing with ailments without using Fiends and such a pain in the ass in that game
The virgin Marin Karin VS the chad Tentarafoo
Like seriously, combined with MCs stangnant air, Mitsuru's almost garanteed tentarafoo makes random encounters easy and saves so much sp
save SP in persona 3?
Guaranteed yet I miss all the time
Ok so I've recently learned that the demon talk skills in Nocturne can actually be incredibly useful. They work in fairly specific scenarios, like seduce is only effective when a female demon is talking to a male demon, but at those specific times they can allow you to completely bypass the recruitment conversation and just get that demon for free. I've found the most widely applicable one being brainwash as it makes grabbing lower level demons for specific fusion super easy.
I love Brainwash. And Kidnap. 'I need you. You don't have a choice, c'mere'
Kinda on brand for nocturne to have incredibly powerful skills that are also incredibly niche and impossible to find without a guide
valkyrie's Soul Recruit instantly works on any neutral male demon, it's incredibly straightforward
The "funniest" one is that Kidnap is particularly effective against children.
@@Bladehound83lmao
Spirit drain is quite useful in the early to mid-game of persona 4 since it drain 30 SP from an enemy and only cost 3, overall you gain 27 SP, with this skill you could just blast every shadow you encountered with elemental skill and when your SP is low, go for a spirit drain in case your partner can hit the weakness for you, or simply go back to previous dungeon and suck SP from weak enemy and you can easily beat the dungeon in one day.
here's one: SMT IV:A Salvation. Very expensive and only heals ailments when you're smirking, which you'd rather use for an attack skill.
agreed mediarahan and amrita are much more reliable. TBH every skill that had a smirk effect was very useless besidde's freikugel on demifiend
It's also the worst transferable skill in Dx2: there it costs 9 MP, 8 if you fully upgrade it (and unless you have some specific skills, the max MP a demon can have is 10, recovering 3 only per turn with no brands or specific skills), the amount of HP it heals is very low, the ability cleansing status effects is useless on any demon that isn't built to be almost completely immune to status ailments, and worst of all, what fully kills this skill, is that you can only use it up to 3 times per battle. Complete garbage.
I was about to say this one too. Only being able to cure ailments when you ARENT ailmented is such a stupid idea (Since you cant smirk when you have an ailment)
I don't like the way they locked traits like Antichthon's debuffs or Salvation's ailment healing behind Smirk. I can understand and appreciate the changes to the Light and Dark skills for the same reason I appreciate P5 bringing in Kouha and Eiha, but otherwise most of those effects are just bad.
One of my biggest gripes in that game + the fact that most skills received a mp cost increase and mp pools were nerfed in both Nanashi and the demons. I mean, wtf Salvation costs 100mp if you have 0 healing skills affinity and now you're telling me I have to use smile charge (50 mp at 0 buff affinity) or expect rng to bless me with a random smirk just to cure ailments? And don't get me started on mp recovery items because those got a massive nerf too: fixed amount of recovery...
I have nightmares from Fuuka's Oracle...
I think that belongs to the best/worst moves at the same time. For me it mostly just healed aliments when I didn't have them.
Oracle is the definition of last resort.
Like, literally.
The move is coded to have its best effects when the party is about to die, and its worst when you're doing good
Teddie’s Kamui Miracle in Golden is basically the same thing, except now it costs MP! Greeeeat...
On portable 3 all her skills were useful.
@@MiguelRPD I think escape route was just broken though.
cue Mitsuru getting my entire team obliterated
MARIN KARIN
𝗕𝗜𝗧𝗖𝗛!
@@trevevern6788 don't get me started on tentarafoo
Should’ve scanned and used tactics
@@sociallyawkard5675 its a pain when you're grinding
@@killjoy_ao4653 not really
There is one surrounded-only skill that's decent in P5R: Thermopylae is a full-party Heat Riser that can be combo'd with the Vitality of the Tree trait (from Attis) for use in any fight. It's a third the cost of Hyakka Ryouran, which does the same, and can be gotten way earlier. (The one advantage to the latter is it's unique to Yusuke, meaning if you're running him and need Joker to do something else you can do that. What else do you need Yusuke's sp for anyway, ice?)
Charge
@@reaperofthings Charge is 12 MP though
Although if you have the DLC, you should run Neo Cadenza instead of Thermopylae. It's 6 SP less plus it heals the party for 50% of their maximum HP
2:00 Dionysus's wine party actually helped me a lot with some of the late game's negotiations, it's extremely useful and saves up a lot of hassle with recruitment
Wine Party is also on Gui Xian who I had for a really long time specifically because of it.
“now we move on to the Persona games”
only talks about persona 3 to 5
Worse than dead
*F O R G O T T E N*
*"OVERWRITE THIS PAIN TEARING ME APART!"*
There is no Persona 1&2 in Ba-Sing-Se
Isn't that a good thing in the context of this video?
@@Artemus973 there's still some useless skills in p1 and p2, like the positive ailment inducing skills in p1 and poison claw in p2
"Useless skills in Megami Tensei Game"
_Mitsuru is in the thumbnail_
Let me take a wild fucking guess
Plot twist: nyarly knows how to use tactics and used mitsuru for clickbait to grab everyone who doesn't
@@BHox01 I think it's more likely because Marin Karin does technically have some uses and an AI that doesn't know how to use it doesn't change that.
sike
I've only played persona 5, but what's wrong with this mitsuru skill?
@@saief3213 It just misses a lot, and is in general not a lot of use
The nocturne conversation skills can actually be used to completely skip some encounters depending on what demon uses it. For example: Setanta will just give you and item and leave if Scthatch talks to him.
"There are no skills that resist and block G U N"
what.
@@papieverett joke from the video
bruh
@@sidekic1109 I’m suicidal
@@papieverett if you max out shinya's social link you can shoot through their immunity.
@@boiboi1623 okay I know
In nocturne there is a few unique dialogs between demons and they give some really good items like soma and stat incense which means while niche still has its uses
The ambush skills in P5 are saved by a passive in royal that always activates them. This gives you access to the party-wide Luster Candy equivalent buff skill at all times. So they're pretty nice I think
The combo you’re thinking of is Thermopylae + Vitality of the Tree, and it’s completely broken. Best non-DLC buff setup in the game.
Traits in P5R were a neat idea, kinda like Abilities in Pokémon. My only gripe is that it was a stright advantage over your enemies. If I were to bring back Traits in a Persona or Mainline game, I would make sure that the enemies all had traits, too.
@@demi-femme4821 like in devil survivor, race skills are available for both your demons and enemy demons
@@demi-femme4821 then again, what in Royal *doesn’t* break the game?
@@forcelightningcable9639 True. Even something as simple as your bullets refilling at the end of battle is super useful, especially early on. I suppose one meh mechanic added was Futaba using the Jazz Club allows her to learn Debuff skills.
The demon talk skils from SMT 3 do indeed help. They can add additional chances to recruit a demon, reduce how much a demon ask you for stuff and change negative answers to neutral ones.
I wouldn't go out of my way to keep or search those skills out but if your demons have them. Then use them.
Some more I wanted to throw in:
Strange Journey-Horn of Fate: This is a skill that randomly casts Mahamaon or Mamudoon when you pick it. That doesn't sound too bad, but it's the signature move of Trumpeter, who's, you know, level 83. That's WAY after you get Mahamaon and Mamudoon for your demons. Oh, and it has a 10% chance to target you instead of the enemy, it's hard for the MC to be immune to both at the same time, and the MC dying in the original Strange Journey (before Redux added March to Death) means instant game over. To my knowledge, this is the one skill that can just instantly kill you for picking it.
Persona 5: Divine Judgement and Demonic Decree. So, these two skills, for the cost of 48 SP, cut the health of an enemy in half and they don't work on bosses (when you use them, that is). Here's the thing: Hamaon and Mudoon are better than them, and they're already in a game where they're not as good Kougaon and Eigaon (not that they're bad, but you can't instant-kill everything). Hamaon and Mudoon, assuming they have the same chances as Persona 4, have a 60% chance to kill the enemy, so they have a higher expected value in damage than Divine Judgement and Demonic Decree. Because Hamaon and Mudoon have a 60% chance to take 100% of the enemy's health, that's effectively 60% enemy's health on average. Then, there's the issue with Hama and Mudo Boost increasing the chances of those activating. Also, Hamaon and Mudoon cost only 15 SP (less than a third of Divine Judgement and Demonic Decree), and, of course, Hamaon and Mudoon have multi-target versions.
Persona 4:
-Trafuri: Just buy a smoke ball.
-Traesto: Just buy a Goho-M.
With the demon conversation skills in Nocturne you can get interesting conversations with specific demon pairs. That is about it.
They got use in Jim Reaper's Low Level runs but that's a very situational use.
Pester specifically is what makes Low Level Spectre not a nightmare
I use them for insta-recruit uses. Brainwash lets you auto-recruit demons levels 10 lower than the base demon. You can quite easily fuse those lower level demons into much stronger demons or Mitama/Elements.
They can completely bypass certain fusion conversations. They’re extremely good just specific usages.
Yes, I have actually used those Demon Conversational skills. They make it easy to replace your good demons at the beginning of each run. They also give you a second chance if you screw up and pick the wrong answer when trying to recruit demons.
Here’s a Persona Challenge you could do…
It’s always bothered me how Lavenza lost to Yaldabaoth when he attacked the Velvet Room prior to the story in Royal, despite supposedly being more powerful than him (she’s a Velvet Sibling, so her stats are really high and she uses Multiple Personas)
So it got me thinking: Can you beat Persona 5 Royal using Lavenza’s Persona Roster?
Rules:
- you can only use the following Personas throughout the playthrough: Kelpie, Berith, Inugami, Oni, Mithras, Atavaka, Thor, Nue, Lucifer
- no glitches and/or exploits
- times when you’ll be forced to use another Persona will not count (such as the Prologue)
- should the challenge be successful, a bonus quest the player can take is to see if it’s possible to beat Lavenza using Lavenza’s Persona Roster
I think Lavenza was just taken by surprise TBH.
Missed Ose and Anubis.
Nyarly: talking about how bad passives during ambushes are
Thermopylae: sweats
Thermopylae is when you ambush something, which, especially late game, essentially just makes it a better 1 slot invigorate + regenerate outside of boss fights, which, outside of our good friend The Traitor and the base final boss, only happen on separate days where you can do the boss at full health anyways
The skills nyarly was talking about is when you GET ambushed
I know this is a 6 month old comment and probably a joke but I'm bored
@@Terumimi i think you’re thinking of the wrong skill. Thermopylae gives heat riser to the entire party, but only works when you’re being ambushed. You’re thinking of the skill “Heat up”
@@harrrieee ohhhhh, yeah i always mix the 2 up
Attis tho
@@Terumimi Thermopylae isnt useless if you have attis's vitality of the tree trait.
The viles actually have some cool tech you can use them for, such as hitting the meatball without lowering the bridges in most day 7s or Yuzu day 8, or using them in 2 to deal with the Megrez buds more effectively. I’d say the far worse race in those games are heroes or divines, especially due to the prevalence of drain tactics
Nyarly: *Puts Mitsuru in thumbnail*
Also Nyarly: *Gets through entire P3 section without mentioning Marin Karin*
Me: Wait, that's illegal.
Atleast marin karin actually work and skill like aliment boost/charm boost exist it might still work but if its on mitsuru ai thats another case
When your actually in control of mitsuru it’s useful. Playing P3P right now and it feels like it has ok accuracy and charming enemies can help a lot, especially when they have few weaknesses or a weakness that I can’t attack witj
It's not a bad skill and it can actually help in a lot of situations. The meme is that she uses it way to often and at the worst possible times which a) is an ai issue and b) can be basically negated with proper use of tactics (or completely avoided in p3p).
@@xbolt678 Portable is gross though
@@Xandumas yeah, I personally prefer FES, but it's worth mentioning
Recently replayed Devil Survivor and Chaos Wave was actually amazing on my run! I countered the mov loss with Devil Speed which increases mov to 7. Didn't have to worry about dying from no extra turns because the enemies couldn't fight back when they only had 1 range, and when they also had 3 range their own chaos wave meant they also had no extra turns. Devil Speed + Chaos Wave effectively gives you 10 spaces of range which is useful for all the missions that require you reach something quick
Walter ending it thus against the Minotaur
"I'LL END IT THUS"
*uses Agi on minotaur*
Well, I did
@@walter9555 Walter funny man
How about Recarmdra In persona 3, reduce health to 1 to fully heal an ally. I think that's the name and effect.
No, it affects the whole party, but just be glad it isn't the version from the earlier games. Those ones outright kill the user.
Damn, that skill is mad useless. In Nocturne I remember getting that on Yatagarasu and I had the pleasure of having infinite mana and health by just getting a demon to revive that bird over and over.
That sure is a useful skill to have in games where 90% of them say if your MC dies, you lose.
@@wizz-sanyt596 Do you know the Hardtype Mod for Nocturne? Recarmdra is completely bugged in this mod, because the user doesn't die after using it. If you fuse a demon with Life Drain + Recarmdra = infinite MP for the party.
If the MC is immune to whatever the enemy is using, then it can be useful to keep the rest of the party alive, and have them do the dirty work. Other than that, yeah, not a good idea.
what about zan-ei in persona 3? i mean, getsu-ei is kinda useful, since it can be used against the full moon bosses, but zan-ei boosts its power during new moon, which really isn't a special event. I don't think I've ever been in tartarus during a new moon.
It's one of those skills better on an enemy than yourself
The buff doesn't apply exclusively to Full/New Moons. The closer you are to a Full Moon, the more powerful Getsu-ei is, with its power peaking ON a Full Moon. The same applies to Zan-ei, First Quarter is more powerful than Full Moon, but New Moon is more powerful than First Quarter, for instance
At least there was Attis' ability in persona 5 royal that allowed you to use any skill exclusive to being surrounded no matter what. Which allowed skills like thermoplyae to be absurdly overpowered
Well, after a Baton Pass anyways, unless there's one that lets you use it whenever.
The day just got brighter.
Hope you have Bright Might
One of the traits in Royal makes some of those niche skills really good. Attis' Vitality of the Tree paired with Thermopylae is crazy.
Conveniently, Attis just so happens to have Thermopylae as an innate skill, so go ahead and have fun just using Luster Candy.
I actually really like the Chaos Wave skill. One of my favorite things to do in the Devil Survivor games was to set up a barricade with one or two party members, and then have another use Chaos Wave to attack from a save distance.
+ Kishin for double attack = one shot attack without counter attack.
same, its really effective having a mainline tank setup and a glass canon group
useful / OP skills in megaten games in the next video would be cool, great video btw!
Holy Dance better be up their, it's just TOO good.
@@dantemustdie00 I always imagine the characters doing the Specialist Dance for Holy Dance
Honorable mention to Raging Tiger in Persona 3.
Yeah, you're right. Like there is little to no enemies that use angry ailment to my party(at least to me since I still training for Chariot and Justice Shadow)
@@joshuaarceo9938 Jin from Strega, specifically in your 2nd encounter with him, can actually put Rage on everyone, which actually is an auto win for you
Me seeing that he finished p3 segment
Where marin karin
The Nocturne talk skills were always pretty great for me. Supposing you used the right talk skill against the right enemy, it becomes incredibly easy to recruit and get valuable items.
I was getting given great chakras and diamonds on the regular and hardly ever got turned down. Thats an even bigger deal on hard mode.
So i definitely wouldnt agree with you saying theyre useless, however I WOULD prefer that talk skills were just something innate that your demons could do based on their race or something, as opposed to taking up my skillslots.
Well there are special one time conversations certain demons in nocturne have with each other such as Odin or Thor talking to Loki, and these conversations do get you some rare items as rewards.
I've just started playing Nocturne HD for the first time ever and I use the skills that help you with conversations all the time. I have even one demon especially for recruiting other demons. Conversations are such a pain in the ass in this game, that without the help of Dionysus and his wine skill or nagging demons in my party, I don't know if I'de be able to ever get the trophy for 30 demons recruited.
There's a niche case to use Great Logos/Megidolaon over Antichton in SMT IV, because how the AI works, you don't actually want to drop the stats of smarter bosses that have Dekunda to -3, because they will almost always use it inmediately, so in those scenarios you want to keep them at -2 constantly so they're way less likely to use it
I'm just gonna leave all non-instakill offensive magic in SMT2 other than Holy Wrath. They just... don't do more than 30 damage no matter how much magic or int you have.
"You know what else reflects physical skills?"
MY MOM!
wow
Me who always ran Vile in Record Breaker: Damn game, can I have a turn???
The talking skills in nocturne can be great. Some of the stronger ones will straight up instantly recruit a demon without any negotiation saving you time and resources in getting demons. I remember one in particular ( brainwash iirc) working automatically recruiting almost every time. Another that I remember being good was Valkyrie had a unique one for recruiting"warriors" and it would always work when used on one of those. Both of these recruitment moves had unique dialogue compared to talk as well.
You don’t have to side with Jonathon to get the four wings four heads quest, you just have to be law aligned
That's what he meant, but you're right, you can side with Isabeau or Walter after meeting the Archangels and still get the Law ending.
Brainwash was probably the only useful conversation skill for Nocturne which had multiple uses.
1) It was very powerful for recruiting demons if you had a super high level demon.
2) If you gave that to a special demon like Uriel(who already has it as default) he always gets a special dialogue option where he will always get a powerful item or gem from any Angel he talks to(random encounters only, obviously). A lot of other demons have special dialogues, here are a few of them: Shive - any naga; Uriel, Raphael, Michael - any angel; Cerberus/Orthrus/Chimera - Orthrus/Cerberus; Khali - Dakini;
Beseech, anyone?
Tetracoerce/Makaracoerce may be bad in SMT, but I think it's worth mentioning how their equivalents (Tetra/Makara Break) are even worse in the Persona series. Since there's no Press Turn system, doing the worst-case move of smacking the barrier and taking the reflect on the chin doesn't cost you multiple turns, and it's usually possible to do so with minimal/no damage taken in return. In P5, all your party members Null their own element at max Confidant rank, making attacking into Makarakarn not much of an issue, and for Tetrakarn, you can just fire one bullet at it and take minimal reflected damage.
Also, I'd love to see a reverse of this: most useful skills. Or if that's too obvious, skills that are more useful than they look.
My son was about to born but then Niarly uploaded a video.
As funny as it may sound as a joke, that's actually awful. Go see your son getting born. Seeing Nyarly's videos can be done anytime. Seeing your own flesh and blood born is priceless and it doesn't come often!
@@chaosgreyblood It was a joke, I'm 17 and I live with my mom.
@@masaru9140 no shit, he's running with the joke.
Fake, we SMT fans are virgins.
After you mentioned lost word. It reminded me of teddy's "ultimate skill" from persona 4 which basically does the same thing
oracle and summer dream in p3 do the same thing
I don't know why JRPG devs do this. Nobody liked it in Earthbound, so why would they like it in Megaten?
@@ZezinhoGameplay_ isnt oracle coded to have better effects depending how bad your situation is?
@@LTDLetsPlays i dont know, but it's still rng
@@LTDLetsPlaysThat's confirmation bias
In devil survivor you still get extra turns if you're in "melee combat" you only lose the extra turns if you engage in any of the extra distance. I dunno, mixing vile demons with the ones that increases speed usually works well for me
Desperation; raises attack, lowers defense
What was I thinking...
Well it's like inferno from Devil survivor 2 ,if you have a strategy you can easily use it without major problens.
In regards to the SMT3 Demon Talk Skills, there's an argument to be made for Beseech, because Shikigami has it by default and he's only Lvl 04, meaning it's very likely to work on most Demons from, like, Ikebukuro onward.
Still that's, like, the only one that's particularly useful.
Brainwash (learned by Power) is pretty good, almost guaranteed to work if the talker is 10 levels higher than the target demon. Useful for recruting weaker demons if you want to save money. I want to mention Death Pact (exclusive to Mithra) too, but you get it so late in the game. At this point it's always better to obtain strong demons via fusion rather than negotiation.
pester is good also. pestering lilim can give you free magic mirror, pestering element in amala sometime give you megido rock and lot of money
@@si-level Yeah, you're right. I actually discovered these exploits by watching Jim Reaper's Low Level playthroughs. I didn't mention Pester because it's not really necessary to farm Megido Rocks and Magic Mirrors to beat the game, they are very situational items.
Dionysus's Wine Party is actually pretty useful as far as interruption skills go.
@@96Vladek The only time I can think of where farming a Megido Rock in SMT3 is useful is in the first trip through the Amala Network, where it'll one-shot the Specter's little clones.
10:59 *notices his Yu's name*
I see you're a man of culture.
Nyarly: Chaos Wave sucks!
Me who made a one shot magic artillery build in his first playthrough : *Gulps*
Depends, end game demons like Arioch, Seth, and Nyarlateph are absolute monsters who can tank hits, but yeah, the Dragon Race can get insane sniper range, it just put's the Vile Race out of work.
I gotta say at least Chaos Wave is not as much useless as it is just not as great as it should be. I have never encountered one situation where Bind or Evil Bind was useful to the player
@@circle3565 It helped me kill that vampire guy in DeSu whatever his name is xd
I had great success with it in DS2. Used another demon that let's you innitiate 3 rounds of combat. That team barely got touched.
In the Nocturne speedrun, pester is used to get a megido rock in the first visit to Amala, which pretty much skips the boss entirely, so... yes! They have a (niche and unreliable) use!
Say it with me everyone ma-ren-ka-ren
If you buff it it might work
Status effects tend to shit but Royal had buffed them. That was neat early game, but felt pointless by the third dungeon. Eh, better that then in P3 where they never land but they seem to always hit your party
@@jarnegi in p5/p5r they got a semi desent buff. But there's no point in teaching them to your party members cause you can use them as items now.
That one's mitsuru's fault, not the skill itself
@@sonoda944 I would debate other wise but that's my opion
Considering how busted spirit/energy drain is in SMT4 antiticthons sp cost is negligible
A few skill suggestions if an SMT V update comes:
1. the base charge skills, charge and concentrate. before they were pretty neat, and a borderline essential skill, because it would more than double your next attack's power, and save you a bit of MP, so it was a really great skill to have. In SMT V however...they only raise it up by about 1.8x. that seems like a good deal around mid-game, but in my opinion? the better you manage your MP in general, and have better access to MP saving things, the more useless it becomes. Essentially? you deal less damage than If you had just attacked twice. a way better alternative is critical aura. Essentially? you're applying the 1.8x buff already by using the move, and ensuring that the attack doesn't miss. And plus, with the fact that it's a guaranteed critical hit, you can give yourself another turn, allowing for even more long-term damage for less MP, especially when said attack is one where it has a greater effect when it crits, AND if you give said demon critical zealot...that demon's target isn't gonna be a target for very long. (Which is why fionn mac chumhaill is one of my favorite demons in smt v so far)
2. Souffle D'eclair. It's not that it's a bad skill, but it's one of those scenarios where it's on a demon where it can't get any good use out of it. Souffle D'eclair is a magical attack, which loup-garou is a strength-focused demon...I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going with this.
3. The single-ally buffs such as (Taru/Raku/Suku)kaja. Yes, even the ones that raises a stat twice. (not the single enemy debuffs, those are great on bosses and help conserve mp through a good amount of the game) This is really just a matter of preference for me, but with how much they changed buffs and debuffs in SMT V, Those skills don't exactly hold much value. Yes you get them early on in the game before you get access to the multi-ally buffs, but even during the early game it isn't very useful at all considering in order to properly utilize buffs, your entire party needs to be buffed for this sort of thing to actually matter. this in turn also heavily nerfs red capote, to the point to where it's way less powerful of a skill.
I'd say Patra. Since ailments just wear off after the battle ends anyway.
@@totaldestruction152 Even more so since ailments are hardly present even in normal encounters, and for those situations, you'll have Amrita items
I got a lot of use out of single targe tarukaja at least, just buff the strongest character before you pop an omagatoki critical for even more damage, also in some bosses I used single target rakukaja alongside taunt to concentrate the damage
Red Capote was always single target. The actual nerf that happened is that you can only go to +2, and buffs fade after 3 turns
Shin Megami Tensei 1:
Usefull skill: ZIO
Useless skills: all the rest :)
Pretty late game in Persona 5 Royal, if you can get a Persona with the trait "Vitality of the Tree" (such as Attis to start but it can be transferred through fusion), which "Allows use of skills only available when surrounded under normal conditions", it makes the "surrounded only" skills a lot better. Why would you bother when there's already versions of those skills you can use outside of being surrounded? Mostly for one skill: Thermopylae, which increases the full party's attack, defense, and speed/evasion for three turns for a measly 30sp.
...or you could use Orpheus (Female)'s Neo Cadenza which does all of that on top of healing %50 health, for 24sp, doesn't require Vitality of the Tree, and is available at the beginning of the game. Ah well.
0:05 I heard it like "turd" based RPG, and seeing as this is a video about the most useless megaten skills, it'd kinda fit.
When you ask whether the devs didn't think of High Counter being bad in Persona 4, i'm pretty sure they decided to merge all Physical attacks sometime late in development because they left all skills there. For example you have both Bash, Cleave and Skewer (probably renamed from Single Shot i guess) which in P3 used to be strike, slash and pierce respectively, but all of them are in P4 with the exact same description "Deals light Phys damage to 1 foe.". There is a minuscule difference in terms of damage and HP cost but the tooltip doesn't mention it anyway. This is the same for all tiers of skills, all of them have 3 skills with the exact same description, they just forgot to remove them. I started playin persona in P4G and I was so confused when choosing physical skills but it all made sense when I played P3, I wonder why they didn't fix this at all in Golden
Not renamed, Single Shot is still in P4, so Skewer is completely new
I find the move seduce useful in Nocturne because in my playthroughs I usually make the Demi-Feind a physically attcking tank. So seduce makes it so that I can try recruiting demons way before it gets to his turn. So in my opinion at least seduce isn't useless.
Also funny thing about only covering P3-5 is there's one skill I would say is this in P1.
The Megido line. Not because the spells suck for any reason, Nuke (not Almighty in this game oddly which Frei takes up in P5) but because of how EXP works in P1. The more contribution to a battle a party member has, the more of the EXP spread they get.
Which means if you Turn 1 annihilate the entire enemy party? Only one character gets EXP. Oops.
Babe wake up, Nyarly just posted.
...ok while you do have a point about surrounded-only skills in P5, I played Royal and kept passing down the "Vitality of the Tree" trait so Thermoplyae was always available. Easy stat buffs at the beginning of every battle. And I think it's a bit unfair to show High Counter on Yusuke's Persona since he doesn't get reflect Phys. Nor does any party member in 5. For Joker's Personas, yeah, I never use it
Anyway, I've only played P5R and S so this was still an interesting video.
Yes, I did get use out of the demon conversational skills in SMT3. I found that sometimes, I didn't have enough turns to switch to Demi-fiend and use Talk, so having Seduce or Plead (depending on what I needed) made it efficient.
This upload schedule is a surprise but a welcome one
for the demon conversations part Mitrha is the only demon to learn the skill death pact. what death pact does if the demon doesn't join your party it is now have the stone status for free and demons generally join because of this. I think this doesn't work on demons that can't talk like foul or demons you can't normally talk to anyways like tyrant or raptor race. Another great video Nyarly!
Nah High Counter has 50% chance if the enemy is the one using it in P4.
saw this video pop up in my recommendations, and I'd like to note a very useless skill from smt imagine since i didn't see it mentioned which is self-destruct. Certain demons will carry it whether you fused for it or recruited it, and if you aren't aware of how to turn off melee skills, or if the demon is focused on melee skills, 9/10 you'd be screwed out of a demon because sometimes it'll use that by default instead of other attacks. The ReImagine server somewhat fixes this by letting you level demons by another means so you can replace the skill, but at that point unless you're absolutely attached to the demon, you might as well use a different demon that doesn't have it.
Pretty good list! Besides Chaos Wave, that one threw me off. It has its draw backs but there are definitely maps that it's nasty on
I have to mention Yukari's Basic Attack in Persona 3 Portable because she can't hit the broadside of a barn thankfully Reload did thankfully solve that issue and she rarely misses and it was night and day difference on Floor 5 going from Almost Dying to easily crushing them because i could chain "1 Mores" so much easier
Also another infamous P3FES/P3P era move that got buffed to usable in Reload - The one and only Marin Karin
I haven't even heard of some of these games, I'm that much of an smt newbie
Crazy that Succubus in Reload with the Drain Skill gives you 40 mp for 3 mp. Easy grind without wasting MP items if you don't have Invig.
Healing clock is a thing, you know?
I think a case can be made for one of the ambush skills in P5R. Thermopiles raises all that stats of all allies.
Sure, there's another skill that does that, on the tier 3 Persona of Yusuke, but first well, tier 3 Persona, point at which you need to get, and it consumes a shot ton of MP.
Thermopiles has none of this disadvantages and, well, there's a Persona ability to get around that.
god that skill is broken with the ability that makes all battles count as ambushes. That and debilitate made p5r late game hilariously easy
Spirit Drain can actually be really useful if you run outta SP and don't wanna use the clock. Go to lower levels with weaker enemies and, even though it's a long chore, you can restore your SP for virtually no cost.
Not worth it, just pop an SP item, especially true in P4G because of a certain exploit you can do for infinite SP items
Lol I was just binging your videos, this is a welcome surprise
To answer your question I do use one or two interrogation skills
Detain and intimidate
But I do see your point
I would rather have a integration skill inserted into the demons appearance or mythology, so wouldn’t have to waste a slot on a skill I don’t use
Dude,in persona 5 spirit drain literally drains the amount of sp that u need to use the move
You get 3 sp. It costs 4 and you get 7, so the output is 3. You can bring it to 2 with spell master, so you "CAN" get 5 if you're that thirsty. But it's still worthless
@@ihavenonamestilldonthaveon8970 i agree cool breeze or envigorate are better
I still find light and dark instakill skills relatively useless when you consider that there is still accuracy and evasion factored in for enemies who are weak to them
Thank you for the video. I will say Antichthon shouldn't be overused or relied on. Debuffing a boss too much can trigger then to remove their debuffs or your buffs thus cucking you. Some bosses are less likely to respond with 1-2 debuff stacks on them. Most up to 3. Any further and your just begging for the AI to use Silent Prayer immediately. lol
Talking about DeSu? Chaos Wave is *fucking amazing*. In DeSu 1 its uncontested. In DeSu 2 its only beaten out by the Dragon family's ability which must be activated instead of being passive. In either case it gives you the ability to absolutely decimate opponents before they even get the chance to consider striking back. Chaos Wave turns your team into a group of snipers. Its bad if you get surrounded but otherwise you can generally nuke the enemy before the can even respond properly. It is *extremely bad* for some specific story fights, but that's a rare circumstance.
I saw the title i imediately thought "MARIN KARIN"
Marin Karin is wonderful and you can fight me ( mind you I only say that because I think it's a really funny to seduce an enemy in the middle of combat)
Marin Karin is not useful in p3 and p4. In persona 5 games there a lot better given you have you have a higher chance to land and psy skills give tenchical damage when they inflicted by aliments(especially in royal and strikers).
@@starmaker75 Marin karin is useless in P4 cus it's not even in p4.
@@starmaker75 It's avtually okay in P3. You can use it to cheese the guardian battles with 3 Shadows in it
Dude, I was just in the mood for some Nyarly! So glad you released this!
>mentions lost word
ok so kamui miracle is gonna appear at some point huh?
>kamui miracle isnt in the video
welp
that's the one I was waiting for
I know right >> The only time Kamui Miracle does good for me is knocking my enemies down lol. That's all. Meanwhile it always does negative stuffs to my party... This is so far when I play the game with it.
P3R has 'Drain Ability' ... doubles effectiveness of drain skills. Makes Spirit Drain worth it.
Not really when you can just heal at the clock
@kichiroumitsurugi4363 true I'm just on my first playthrough being stingy with the fragments
Nearly threw hands at you when you said drain skills are bad. I put them back when you said in Persona. I love drain skills especially in Desu 1,2 and SMTIV, and SMTIVA
Spirit drain was genuinely useful for me in P3R, but that was with the drain boost. Also, I had no idea I had already watched this two years ago.
I'd say the P5 counter skills aren't so bad because you can start getting them relatively early, iirc. I see them the same way I see the lower tier damage spells; decent temporary skills to hold me over till I can get the strong one.
He mentions that the gap between Repel Physical and High Counter is like, less than 2 levels in P4
Some skills even if they're considered meh can be upgraded through skill morphing
My favorite example of this is Dominion in SJR with Recarmdra being able to morph into Antichthon
I never used Tetra Break or Makara Break once in my SMT-playing career. =B