@@Utopiboxen I think that we all fell that way at some point. This is good because none type can label us, but it can cause a great confusion. In your entire life, have you recalled concrete experiences and details, comparing scenarios from the past to the now? Or have you imagined your future years ahead and just knowing how to get there, always wondering what was going to happen? Remebering that under stress, ISTJs imagine terrible scenarios for what could happen due to the inappropriate use of their Ne. INTJs become reckless, impulsive and prone to risky behaviour, due to to the inappropriate use of their Se.
@@Utopiboxen Use more introspection. Think back to your childhood, your teenage years and your adulthood. Which actions have you naturally felt yourself inclined to taking? If those answers are mostly consistent you can use that to determine your correct type.
I'm an INTJ, and my dad is an ISTJ. The best way I could describe the difference between us is that I extract the big picture from details, and he extracts details from the big picture. I'm focused on strategy, he's focused on tactics. He takes pleasure from figuring out every nut and bolt of a machine, while I'm trying to figure out how to build a machine to achieve a goal. It's "how things work" vs "what is this all for?". The disagreements we've had have almost always been about me arguing that he can't see the forest for the trees, while he is all about never making a mistake, and outworking everyone else. We would probably be better off if our roles were reversed. The INTJ developing a plan, and the ISTJ implementing it, is probably the ideal. @ 16:40 I have literally heard those exact words come out of my dad's mouth.
Ni is bonkers to me, I always go over events and conversations over and over in my head trying to better understand what happened and storing it for later. I can’t fathom creating a vision of something that never happened and using that to make sense of an idea.
It's an interesting difference. And being aware of these differences allows us to communicate better. I finally learned that istjs get the picture from the details so details are kinda non negotiable, where as for us... They're Extras we don't want to bother with most of the time. It's almost like a man in the helicopter and a man on the ground trying to make a map. The guy in the helicopter makes a rough sketch that encompasses the general layout of the terrain. Details are irrelevant to him since he sees the whole forest already. But the guy in the ground has to remember every tree and exactly where it stands in order to draw his own version of the same map. And the same is with experiences. With ni you kinda live in the future, you can already see what's coming, living through it is irrelevant. But with Si you need specific and concrete previous experiences to guide you, so in order to learn things you have to experience them first. This difference is why I consider Si Doms to be excellent employees and Ni Doms to be excellent employers. One is naturally meant to plan ahead, another is naturally meant to implement the plan with utmost precision.
As an Ne dom, I do both ironically. (I go over events and convos in my head trying to better understand -- or moreso havr to connect "the thing" to a similar concept (Ne) -- but I also I love creating visions of something that never happens).
Me, single ENFP: Am I the only one sitting here thinking Michael is really hot...? I wonder if he's single... Michael: I'm single. Joyce: You know how many people are going to hit on you in the comments section now that you said you're single? Me: *dies laughing*
@@user-pk5pl7ox1e You are oblivious. I seriously don't care what my type but i guess it requires explanation. Look at the stark difference between Chris and Michael. The only way to find out who is the real INTJ is by comparison with joyce who also has Ni primary. Looking at the video I hope you can form your own conclusion of the types by comparing them since him being INFP is just my opinion.
The thing Micheal said about trusting that things are working themselves out in the background (unconscious Ni) was something I’ve noticed a lot in myself (INTJ). It’s actually a big takeaway from typology for me - that I can trust that the Ni is going to happen, and that stopping, sleeping, or tuning out is actually more helpful than trying to consume the details. Super helpful, I imagine, to plenty of INTJs. And I laughed at the following piece, that being that once you do get the Ni, the Te has to get going, and get going fast so that the actual thing does get done. Anyways, I wanted to highlight my appreciation for that description. It is a perfect description of my cognitive process at work. But really, everything Micheal, and many INTJs say appeals to my Ni (+Fi) quite profoundly. (Highlighting now, the disconnect from who I used to be... very relatable). Thanks for your videos, Joyce.
Extremely well put, Elle! Ni & its background processing abilities are quite interesting. Thank you for tuning in and offering your perspective. That was quite informative. 🙂
As an older INTJ, I used to never feel regret or nostalgia or any of that; but as I age, I am feeling that more and more. I think as you age, you begin to evaluate your life. You begin to ask questions about it all. And some of those require you to review your past. It's just a natural part of aging. I don't feel any nostalgia about high school AT ALL (except marching and symphonic band was SO FUN). But, for example, I miss the times I spent with other grad students in graduate school, the conferences to places like Monaco or other travel, the field research and research cruises. I felt like I belonged with them and had finally found people with whom I could relate and it was fun. I miss that. And I miss going dancing and going on camping trips with my gay friends in Austin when we were in our 30's. We'd go in groups and sit around the campfire and go on hikes and go birding and I'd take a ton of pictures (I'm also a pretty good photographer and have done a ton of darkroom work with film development). I loved that. And I miss being married (I need to start dating again I guess, lol)...stuff like that. I guess it's related to things that I need to bring back into my current life that have taken a back seat due to all my working. Work work work. INTJs work too much sometimes I think. We love our work but we gotta remember the other important aspects of life too, like the social piece and the adventure. OMG, yes I do know INFPs who dwell in the past, both good and bad memories. I definitely don't dwell on the past, or on regrets or nostalgia though. I usually try to avoid them a bit because they are not pleasant and aside from learning from them, it does no good to suffer. But the feelings do surface from time to time and it makes me think I need to call this or that friend and plan another trip and not let the fact that we are so busy all the time prevent us from still having those fun experiences. As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that yes, I DO need to do this! :-) And the other thing is I do have some regrets now that I've developed my feeling Fe and Fi side. I remember back on the ways I've treated people in the distant past and I do have regrets about that. When I was young, I was just oblivious. Now I wish I could go back and do things differently in certain experiences. I feel a bit of guilt for the obliviousness and lack of sensitivity of my youth. Like I WISH I would have understood INFJs when my sweet mom was still alive. I think I could have avoided many arguments with her over my younger years especially. :-(
Yes!! I love how Chris (AuraPsych) pointed out that as Ni-doms we can learn our life lessons through playing out the scenario so as to never having to actually experience certain things because we know that where that trajectory goes is a dead end or has negative/adverse consequences. Details not necessary. That's how I never got into drugs whereas every member of my family has. Also, Michael with the Ni-leap of faith... sort of scary looking from the outside in but when we are going through something that Ni-leap of faith is a "must do" and usually non-negotiable. To me it can seem impulsive but it's taken a while to get to that point. Memories for me feel like stagnant flashes of photographs taken and I can usually see myself. I am looking at myself in the scene and the flash is frozen in time/moment. There is an overall concept, impression or expression or even an energy or feel of the situation. I cannot ascertain any additional details from recalling the memory and the memory fades over time. Most of the time the most memorable of memories are unresolved pieces to a larger puzzle in my life... sort of “loose ends” that need closure and a final resting place in my mind/memory. Memories are in the third person and I am removed. And I agree that I don't feel regret... I just take the lesson or concept and move forward. Life for me is a fast moving train... if I happen to fly by certain experiences that are still outstanding (lacking closure) with unresolved emotions, when it catches up it's like, OH CRAP! this whole concept was missing and has not been uncovered until now... and now I have to deal with this to move past it. I think I use tokens and photographs to freeze time and also remind me of how far I have come (there is usually a sadness attached to it even if it was positive). It feels ghostly? LOL But the memories exist as jumping off points... resources for orienting the present and future. I still have all my photographs from my previous boyfriends because the photographs represent links in time ... and a way to remind myself I have lived, this is what I did with this time.
Wow the way you describe memories is exact how I remember them only I feel more my pressence and feelings with it so it doesn't have to be sad/nostalgic. I am obsessed with taking photographs and rewatching my life from time to time to realise what I have seen and experienced and can be thankfull/happy about. I do store a lot of memories which some intuition people seem to be inpressed by but once they are processed they seem to disappear or I just remember the photographs I have taken or the stories I have told. Pretty magical to read what I never could discribe but somewhere felt was different from most people. And also how people experience those memories and thought/cognitive processes so differently. (I knew ofcourse because of mbti but in this video it became even more clear) (enfj)
As an INFJ, I feel such resonance with what Michael said about almost living as another person in your head, drawing out scenarios. So glad I'm not the only one 😅 It makes for great source material for creative writing.
Inferior Ne and Se seem to have a similar essence. The ISTJs are overwhelmed by the possibilities of what will happen when things are in a stressful state. The present is overwhelming not necessarily because of whats presently happening but because they can't see whats going to happen because of it or which direction its heading, too many possibilities, fear of the unknown. Whereas the INTJs are moreso stressed by the current scenario that they didnt project for, therefore having to deal with the realness of the current situation. Very similar, subtly different.
42:14 it's really funny that Michael mentioned this because I tend to cook the same dish for like two months, if I'm not consciously caring about diversity in my diet.
The intuitive and sensing sides have so much to teach us. Intuition works in the background, and that's important. Sensation reminds us that data is important too.
Totally Laura. I have a friend/coworker ISTJ who is a programmer and every once in a while he'll crack me up because he will take something literal to it's most absurd extreme. He knows he's doing it and we both know he's trying to be funny which makes it even more funny. I love Ne.
As an INTJ I remember as a child having barbies and not understanding the purpose of them to play with. I wanted to be outside exploring and learning or finding new things. For the nurturing part, my mom is very follow the rules, she doesn’t even speed when she drives and I am kinda like that because of learning it from her. But I do remember ask why so much as a child because I wanted to understand.
When I was 5 I asked my mom how you know when to shift (she drove a manual). She answered, "You just know," and for years I was convinced I would never learn to drive a car. (I did, of course, and to this day I will drive only manuals, haha!)
The idea of the ISTJ being more into gambling vs INTJ enjoying sensory overindulgence is interesting. Another demonstration of where my dad and I are different. I can't imagine wanting to regularly buy a lotto ticket - just a waste of money, the odds are astronomically against you (better chance of being struck by lightning on two separate occasions than winning the powerball, lol) but my dad, in spite of being intelligent and mathematically inclined, would habitually buy lotto tickets and spend time daydreaming about what he could do with it if he won. 🤔 As an INTJ though I also relate to the humor of taking things to the excessively literal extreme. A lot of people don't get it but I find it really entertaining.....
@@JoyceMeng22 Actually didn't manage to watch all of this last night - the how would you break a rule question is super interesting for me, I wish the INTJs had answered it, haha XD I don't usually directly break rules, but if I do, it's usually a question of understanding why the rule is there - what negative outcome is it trying to prevent? - and making sure to avoid that outcome even if I bend or break the rule itself.
bro the thing you just described about lotto tickets is literally my ISFJ mum haha. She just won't stop buying them even though i tell her its a waste of time and money and she's like "but imagine if we won" and starts imagining all the possibilities 😂even as an INFP i somewhat get why she does it but i still think its an absolute waste and honestly would never buy one.
The listening to music part is very interesting. By function stacks I believe I am an ENTJ. Today at lunch the restaurant started playing Downton Abbey's theme song. I felt an immense appreciation, but I certainly didn't recall my first time watching the show haha. I could retrieve that information from my mind if you ask for it, but it isn't something I would naturally do. And it would be at most "when was the first time I watched it." It wouldn't play out like a movie. Another one I relate to is "INTJs tend to rush through the story details and go to the conclusion, while ISTJs tend to describe it more vividly." I'm often very frustrated when my mother describes an event, because she mentions many details that's irrelevant to her point. I often zone out or just ask her directly, "What is your point?" After she finishes, I can always boil her description down to 3 sentences.
I do relate but the asking for a point would be typical ENTJ I think 😂 Althow too much details get's me very restless and irritated too 🙈 It's practicing patience for me and trying to guide someone to their point especially SP's seem to forget to have a point and just tell all sorts of stories as they seem to enjoy the route where we want to go to the destination as fast as possible 😂 (ENFJ)
My dad is an esfj and is always providing useless details to his point..droning on forever. However, when I provide details of something that happened that are essential to what I am saying, he will cut me off and rush me through. So irritating !
I'd like to say two things: Si doesn't put values, the memories are neutral. The value of the memory comes later with the process of the feeling function. And, I liked to see the discution about inferior Se, the few times I could see this topic well explained were just at Frank James's channel. It is an amazing video, as always.
Michael THIS! Yes! 14:34. It seems to happen subconsciously for me as well. I've learned that intuition is far more trustworthy than any other function, like Michael was saying. If I try to use Te or Ti to work it out step by step, it's never as perfect as it is when I just let my intuition do it's thing in the background and trust it. It has literally never let me down. I've learned from experience that my intuition is the most reliable thing I have at my disposal. The problem comes as Michael said when you have to Te hurry. Also, re sleeping, I've also thought Ni processing is why I sleep a lot.
Regarding Ryan's theory on the inferior functions. It makes sense. As an INTJ, I do have a tendency to eat for the pleasure of it even if I may not be hungry. When I was a skinny little kid, my babysitter said I would want to eat when I was bored. She wrote that in a poem about me when I was 3. So yeah, I do think the inferior plays a role in that. That being said, I don't drink or take drugs. I of course dabbled in a lot of that for the curiosity and experience in college but got bored with it. I much preferred my sober mental state where I could be in my imagination unhindered by any chemical substances. I don't like how I feel on drugs or alcohol usually (sometimes it's fun but I especially don't like how I feel the next day) and I've never had any pull toward drugs/alcohol. Alcohol just tastes bad! LOL That being said, I used to smoke cigarettes. I quit many years ago though (probably substituted food for them to some degree because that's when my weight problem began).
Love your Channel. Very authentic and pleasantly nonscripted Content. You should do a bigger Panel comparing INTJs to INFJs. I'm kind of confused between those two Aspects within myself. Observing and comparing the Demeanor of People helps me to track their Minds and Variety is really helpful to find Commonalities. I'm sure one of those would be beneficial to many.
Si is a very useful function 😍 its like a RAM in my system where information is stored I can have access to it. Tho it is my inferior function, it is not stable and just pops out when I have a deja vu or when someone ask the same question in the present moment.
That was SO INTERESTING about how you can tell between Ni and Si based on their self-reference and contextualizing! YES! Can totally see that. Also I love that idea of using images. That's such an obvious one but I never think of it. I'm gonna try that on my ISTJ coworker Monday and see how he responds. Heehee. :-) Actually I'm gonna do this to everyone in my office (there are about 30 of us). I've got them all typed pretty well, only about 7 of us are Intuiters and the rest are Sensors, I'm pretty sure. This will be a good quick way to nail that down. Thank you! Interestingly, I work in an IT dept and almost all of us are high level thinkers which you'd expect. The only feelers are 3 of the supervisors (all female - 2 ISFJ and 1 ENFP) and 2 of the team leads (1 female/ISFJ I think and 1 female/ENFJ) and one other technician a male/ENFP. We had a male manager ESFJ but poor guy recently got fired to being too emotional basically. He drove everyone crazy but I kinda liked him.
This is sooooo good. Joyce, your explanation at 9:20 about how your Ni goes back to pull out some meaning from a past event but is not looking at any of the concrete aspects of it is so spot on. I relate so closely with Michael and AsuraPsych as well. And it's so wild to hear how the ISTJs are so focused on the sensory. Great panel!
As an INTP, it's so surreal to me how I relate to both types in different ways during the Si vs Ni discussion. I absolutely do recall memories in all their detail (and they ARE often nostalgic for me! Not sure if that's somehow unique to 3rd slot Si). I remember where I was, what I was doing, who I was with, etc. And I don't try to rush through the details (when I'm by myself). However, I have often used the exact analogy referenced by Michael that I feel disconnected from reality as if I have that third person view and life is a video game (I think Se PoLR and Se inferior people have a lot in common in terms of how separate they feel from "reality"... and perhaps there's some overlap with type 5s living in their heads. I'm also a 5w4 like Michael). As an intuitive, I do tend to find analysis of details without extrapolation of meaning rather tedious and boring, but it's not an Ni meaning. It's very much so an Ne consideration of possibilities used to calculate which are most likely, and categorize data from memories into thematic categories. There are certain elements of Si I've found to be unique to SJs though. My memories do not play like a movie from beginning to end. They do sometimes play chronologically, but in tiny snippets, and I can fast forward or rewind to the relevant part I want to recall. I've talked to other STJs who have told me their memories also play like a movie, but that they cannot fast forward... So if you say to them, "Hurry up and get to the point!" they cannot fast forward to the more relevant part or simply describe the relevance. Instead they will continue the story chronologically in excruciating detail, just talking a little faster to get through all those details quickly lol. Because like Ryan said, to them, the details _are_ the point. I have often accused STJs of "missing the forest for the trees." Even as a fellow Si user, it's very frustrating to me to sit through a story with too many details that hold no relevance to the frame through which it's being analyzed. But that's the part they don't seem to get... _which_ details are relevant... Aren't they all? Anyway, thanks for this talk, Joyce! There's a person in my life who I originally typed as ISTJ, but he insists he is an INTJ, and this video helped further confirm my initial analysis. Now if only I could convince him!
" but that they cannot fast forward" This actually explains a lot. One thing that bothers me is that it is clearly a weakness and the domination function should be a strength compared to tertiary. Maybe learning how to fast forward or cut to the chase for ISXJs is the same as learning to listen to your feelings as an INXP or learning to at least recall the most relevant details as an INXJ.
As entp I also relate to the movie snippets part. However ever those snippets are always in low saturation and you are constantly moving them around and it's almost impossible for me to chronologicially replay something. It's like you take these snippets and constantly mash them together to create something new or even just understand reality. Since the outer world is so blury you mind kind takes these snippets, mashes them together to fake an se reality. I actually think that the way to distinguish the different types is though the way they experience/percieve reality. As you can see, even between intp and entp is a difference on how we see the world. I actually think you experience of the perception is cloeer to infp than entp. While the judging fuction is kind of what meaning you extract from the information that you perceive. Like you can play the movie in your head but the meaning you extract is from ti while for infp the meaning comes from fi.
@Susana A it could be a thing with masculine ne and feminine si that leads to first of all mistyping as ni potentially but also yeah may have this effect in combination with trauma. I definitly had that aswell when I dealt with trauma, plus dissasociation (but I don't really wanna get into that). From experience I can say (as my mother is an estj) that estj also often get people unser their wing and give them tasks (I actually think this is kind of nature of te tbh, bouncing tasks with the tribe and or for the tribe, but also I don't really think that this excludes the possibility of working alone, they just have to externalise their process). The working alone thing could be an indicator of ti in my opinion, tho I had to rewatch Death Note in order to really no if Light internislises his process or not. Tho that would be a further indicator of him being an infj (tho I still am open to the possibility of him being intj, again my argument against that was his complete lack ot awarness of any external factor which leads to him having consistent plans but not which really work well in reality as it constantly gave away close about him as person which to me seems like another indicator ti instead of te)
@Susana A I appreiciate you in depth analyzis again, I don't remeber Death Note that clearly to really respond so I needed to rewatch in order to evuluate my analysis. Now where you tell me about the ne Part it's more the opposite around. Maybe I mistyped him as having a Lack of ne because he didn't see outer possibilities that clearly like the ability on how people could potentially react towards his plans (ok I completely suck at explaining my thoughts, especially written, I'm sorry). I wish I could name any example but I don't remember as clearly anymore. (I only watched Death Note once so yeah).
I love how you teach and explain things so well Joyce. That was so interesting about looking at where people begin (e.g. Ni users start with the concept vs Si users start with their own experience). I totally relate to that.
These videos are SO insightful, thank you, Joyce! As a medical student, I am pretty sure that this will all prove beyond useful in my future work. Also, happy birthday! ❤️
This is SO GOOD! Thank you Joyce, Michael, Laura, Ryan and Chris. As an INTJ, my experience of Ni is like Joyce and Ryan said and a bit like Michael. It's like I have a computer process running in the background at all times sort of "listening" or "watching out" for patterns in my experience to emerge or otherwise reveal themselves into my consciousness. I work in IT so that's the best analogy I can come up with. I too feel like I'm having a third person experience and I also do a TON of metacognition. It's almost constant. I analyze my own thoughts, impressions, feelings, etc. And I feel like I'm definitely detached at times. Not detached as in an out-of-body experience or disassociation, but more like an observer on the outside looking in, disengaged from inside the interaction...like a teacher observing her class engaged in an activity or a bird taking in the landscape from high in the sky. Seeing the larger picture and all the parts of it. Whether it be an actual concrete Se experience or one in my imagination, doesn't matter. I don't always deliberately look for the patterns. I just seem to become aware of them, all the time. But, the more open I am and the more often I make a space/time for them, or ask specific, focused questions, to allow the patterns or other answers to reveal themselves, the more often they do. So I do have a certain amount of control over them. But like Michael said, they do take time. Regarding the experiences I analyze, like Joyce said, they are (probably more) often fantasy than concrete experience. I don't mean fantasy like a video game or Narnia or Harry Potter or going up into space travel. I mean fantasy as in daydreaming about the camper van I'm going to build out in a couple of years and how I'm going to travel across the continent...imagining what all I need to do to bring it to fruition the exact way I want it to be. It's basically just SUPER planning. Or imagining how my business will grow over time and in which ways it will develop, who it will impact/help, etc. I just see everything related to it and how it all fits together and I start working on it with my Te. When a pattern or deeper meaning or connection emerges into my consciousness, it may feel like an epiphany if it's a bigger leap but if it's smaller connections, then it just feels like my mind is connecting various pieces of information together like putting together a puzzle, in a sort of mundane, puttering kind of way. It's mild and comforting. I do this deliberately when i need to learn something, like for work or a new hobby. I'll study and review the entire subject matter to determine the full scope of it (e.g. how to build a website) to see what all the various concepts and skills that I'd need to learn and build my mental model for the framework/scaffold of it. For example, I'd determine that I'd have to learn about web hosting, html, css, web copywriting, marketing, building a brand identity, building the database, learning color theory, etc. Then I'd prioritize which of those I need to learn first and I'd dive into the details for that piece first and mostly master that part. Like I might focus on the html/css part first, then the web hosting, then WordPress, then the design aspects, etc. Eventually it call comes together and I am really good at putting together websites. And then I'll be really interested in the relationships within my newly learned skill. Like I'll see the patterns between my new web design systems and how websites are built differently by various types of programmers. For example websites built for small businesses are extremely different than those build for enterprises. I'll recognize the ways in which they differ. I'll study via comparing and contrasting the various aspects. I'll notice the similarities and the differences. And I'll notice patterns in the similarities and differences. Or I might compare and contrast the knowledge and skills I have from my aquaria husbandry business that I used to have (which includes natural aquascaping with live plants, rocks/wood, water chemistry that matches the actual river or lake that species of fish evolved in - e.g. African cichlids from Lake Malawi need limestone rock aquascaping and water with a pH around 8.0 - fish behavior and breeding, etc.) to how you'd handle aquatic husbandry on a large scale (like a large fish store or aquarium that the public would visit. I enjoy playing with the different ways they relate to each other. And I might even see patterns between more disparate subjects, like I'll notice that both web design and aquaria both have essentially 2 big aspects; a scientific aspect and a design aspect. I'll compare the design concepts used in aquascaping with the design concepts used in web design. Fun side note, check this out! This is someone I've studied for years and his work is AMAZING! I've built many smaller tanks that looked very much like his massive ones. www.aquariumarchitecture.com/archive/legendary-aquarist-takashi-amano/ I can often find connections nobody else would imagine. I keep building on these connections in my imagination in areas that I find interesting. I'll see a pattern and then I'll suppose what might happen as a result of a connection and then as a result of that connecting with another thing and then as a result of that (like predicting 5 moves ahead in a chess game). And very quickly, I am off deep into my fantasy of what could or will be. It's endless and very enjoyable. But I almost exclusively do this with an extremely sharp focus on my life's goals. I don't waste all of this on just anything that strikes my fancy. It's got to align with my values and move me closer to fulfilling my life's purpose. And, I don't really look back and my memory for details is not good either....UNLESS they are details associated with something I've mastered (like web design, aquaria, gardening, sustainability, etc.). Then I've got super good Ti that's hashed over all of that and my memory is good.
Hard relate to feeling like an "observer on the outside looking in, disengaged from inside the interaction...like a teacher observing her class engaged in an activity or a bird taking in the landscape from high in the sky. Seeing the larger picture and all the parts of it." You really understand web design!! Also, aquatic husbandry; Takashi has such cool tanks!! That's so awesome. :)
Wow the whole thing was fantastic. Love the intro and I learned a lot. Specially about how Si see’s the past and not all healthy ones are consistently telling stories of the past. And happy birthday Joyce. Woah an INTJ said happy birthday, it took my INTJ, husband, 4 years to remember mine.
The question I would ask an IxTJ to determine whether or not they were an Si or Ni dom is I would ask them "So, how was your weekend?" The Si dom is going to go into excruciating detail of the chores or projects he did around the house or something he learned, like my coworker wanted to tell me ALL about how he installed his surround sound system last year and I just finally had to stop him, LOL. The Ni dom is probably going to talk about their pet project and the general progress they've made on that and what realizations they've had or ways they've optimized something. That sort of thing. Or if they did social things, the Ni user will probably be really brief in their description of the event (e.g. "Dad and I went to lunch" - the end) whereas the ISTJ will explain in more detail (e.g. Mom doesn't like to eat salt in her food so I made these cookies but I had to make 2 batches, one with salt and one without salt but I have tried in the past to not tell her I put salt in there but she could tell....etc). It's actually pretty easy for me to tell the two types apart. ISTJs just are so funny and endearing to me.
So this was my conclusion about the difference between intuitives and sensors at first. But then I heard about the memory and my INTJ friend said he saw video's. And I definitely see fading pics 🤣. Also he seems to have difficulty imagining the future and get all negative about it. When I speak about concepts and philophisies and trying to explore idea's he seem to be more grounded and doesn't really want to get into it to deep. He likes to go towards more mondain topics like what did you do this weekend and complain a lot about his work but without details. I guess more closed in general. So Idk these things seem to be more sensory things? Or just not well developed Ni? Or he is just very introverted and don't want to tell too much about how he truely thinks. That seems to be a skill of both types 😂
usually I will be very brief with other people and I hate when people ask me anything about work, my weekend, vacation, or anything like that BUT if I went out with other people and then talk to my best friend and she asks me how it went, I will probably explain in details something like "can you believe she said blablabla" I can also get into details of what I was drinking if it’s related to something we sometimes talk about, what I didn’t like about the place or what I liked, maybe there were a lot of people smoking so I will complain about that, or I will talk about how I was feeling the whole time I was there, how I couldn’t wait to go home, etc. I'm very close to her and always am eager to tell her some details of whatever happened, while with other people I'm probably just gonna say "yeah it was great". Still don’t know what type I am though, I get typed as INTJ and ISTJ.
Can totally relate.... when we are discussing things (online chat) this ISTJ friend pours me with tons of contexts and details and you can see how long her dialog usually is...and all her thoughts and how things happened, like she remembered every second of the things she experienced... And I though I had good memories....
Now this is a very very interesting video for me. I've been typing my crush as an intj for sooooo long (btw im infp), cause he really is quite obsessed with what's in the future and all those really out of the box thinking. And turns out he told me by doing test he is an istj. Since he doesn't know much about mbti and i know that online tests are not that accurate, I figure I have to find out what diverges between istj and intj (since i have a small social circle). Glad to know videos like this exists, valuable information. Thanks!
I love this point you made Joyce at 103:30. I'll start using this to help me type people. It's good to know because it's true that people will move off into other functions so it can get confusing to pin down what function they prefer but knowing that where they start is most aligned with their type helps a lot.
As a not so young INTJ, perhaps I compensated from childhood, about reading literature and history, my IN stuff has a lot of detail which is my way of archiving balance... if that makes sense...memory play an important influence... thanks to all
a question for any of you. I have tested INTJ several times. Each time that I have doubt, I test again. I've considered that its likely to have tendencies of more than one. In this case, I feel some tendencies of ISTJ. Example-ISTJ; when problem solving for a client, I relate to a solution that has worked in my past. One of my Pilar's is verification, measure twice, cut once. This is wisdom through experience which I feel is ISTJ. Example 2-INTJ; Multi tasking only works when you are comfortable enough with one task to focus on a secondary task. When I need to be the person, that I do not believe I can, I play the part like an actor would play the part of a Dr. This allows me more versatility of character, but also confuses my own outcome. So, do any of you get mixed results, consider yourselves more than one, or question the outcome of your quiz?
Yes I do get mixed results and question the results of the tests. I get typed as INTJ and once or twice as ISTJ. Just like what you said, I also have tendencies of ISTJ, and I would also relate to a solution that has worked for me before in a similar experience. I'm very confused and have watched so many videos for INTJ vs ISTJ, still can’t figure out my type, my brain hurts :) sometimes I even relate to INTP for different reasons, but I do. I also can’t differentiate between Fi and Fe, I relate to different aspects of both. Did you figure out your type?
I had never felt regret before in my life until my Mom passed away when I was in my later forties. Then it sort of hit me hard and still does to this day. It feels sad. I think about the ways in which I could have been a better (more Fe) daughter and wish I'd called her more or watched her special oldie movies with her more. :-(. So yeah, we can definitely feel regret. But I can't think of any other regrets. I suspect it doesn't happen unless it's something big/important. I sometimes feel melancholy as well when I think back to times in my childhood or college/early adult years because it feels like so long ago, like a different life and a time that is lost forever and you can never get that back. It's a weird, surreal feeling, almost like another dimension, so distant, almost like a different person. I've never looked back on middle or high school though. Those memories don't mean much to me. But I do sometimes feel melancholy. Maybe it's just getting older and feeling your mortality more vividly and thinking "is THIS all there is? I thought I'd be further along in my aspirations by now". I think as you get older you realize you are probably not going to reach all those lofty goals you set for yourself and there's a bit of a grieving process for the lost dream. That feels like melancholy and something I never had before. Reacting to what Ryan said, it's okay to grieve for what you've lost though. That's different than ruminating. Just wanted to throw out that important distinction.
What do all you guys think? Maybe one way to describe Ni vs. Si is that Ni is more akin to deductive reasoning and Si is more akin to inductive reasoning. The Ni starts with a some objective reasoning and applies that to a specific scenario whereas the Si shows how a specific scenario is a part of a larger concept.
I totally agree with Ryan on the genetic basis for personality. When I was younger I put more stock in nurture over nature (and I STILL do when it comes to our dysfunctional aspects of personality) but I strongly think genetics forms the foundation of our personalty. For example. My Mom and I are both Ni doms/Se inferior (she's INFJ and I'm INTJ) so we relate really well on Ni/Se and LOVE sharing those functions together (or we did when she was alive) but I share ALL my functions with my father, an ENTJ. So I have a TON in common with both of them. My brother, an ISTP shares ALL my Mom's functions, but in many ways he relates better to me and Dad because of being a high-level thinker. My poor ESFJ step-mom has never quite fit in but we love her.
I agree with you!! "When I was younger I put more stock in nurture over nature (and I STILL do when it comes to our dysfunctional aspects of personality)" This is a good point, that the dysfunctional parts of our personality are typically learnt, and therefore, possible to unlearn.
Speaking about twins,i have got an infp and and an intp friend,who are twins.They have grown under the same roof.From the outside they seem remarkably similar.but once you get to know them well,they are like total opposites.I think they seem similar as they interact with the world with their Ne.But,the dominant functions are completely different.So,sometimes they clash hard. It is interesting,that even identical twins can have such different personalities.
How identical do they look? Could you say one looks more masculine and other feminine, for example? Or is one taller? Or different bone structure otherwise (like face)?
INTJ 5w4 and I think overindulgence is a thing. My kryptonite is alcohol and sometimes food. With alcohol I let down whatever it is that makes me stoic and I become someone totally different, a very animated in the moment type person that everyone seem to love. Of course I’ve wondered how to get the same buzz while maintaining my control because I feel vulnerable sharing that much with others and it’s awkward to see others again and they think something is wrong because I’m not drinking.
Same dude. I'm learning it's just about managing. Before I thought, "I don't want people to think I'm like this all the time when intoxicated". I'm the complete opposite. Because people can be pushy with fe/fi. Thing is that ignorant effort of trying to tap into being more open can get extreme. Asurapsych just dropped a video on his chanel about this
Around 1:15:00 this is what I was discussing today. Even tho I can get really frustrated by too many details especially if someone is telling a long story without heading towards a point. But I have been adjusting to the sensors (even tho I didn't knew of mbti before) by telling things in less conceptual ways and more details and examples with certain people.. This is for good communication purposes. I hate to loose their focus in coversations. I also do talk a lot from my own standpoint/experiences (like previous was expressed was typical for sensors) and I believe I learned this as an non conflicting way of expressing my feelings and also to be more relatable and emotional vulnerable? I guess it's Fi I am discussing in that kind of way. I also have developed a high TE (as you can see by my pressence here haha). I do think like Joyce was trying out to be more of an other personality, a P type..I tried to be all sorts of types so I could easilier communicate and understand everyones way of thinking for me being always a bit different. So very much FE driven probably 🤣. Still recognise myself almost in every sense in an ENFJ tho. Anyways this conversation was extremely interesting! So many philosophical thoughts.. And I was so impressed by how we see memories differently! I never heard of that before. A lot to think about 😊. Also it was a very nice and balanced interaction between the participants to follow. Well done everyone ! 👏🤩🙌
OMG, that is so true about how ISTJs can be funny. I have a close coworker, a 60-year old, health nut, programmer, who i talk with all the time about politics, current events, work stuff, etc. And every once in a while he just says something so funny that I laugh out loud. He KNOWS he's being funny too which makes it even funnier. Like today, I live on Galveston Island about 3 blocks from the beach, directly behind a popular burger joint on the Seawall (Seawall is our main blvd along the beach) named "The Spot" and there is a hurricane (Delta) headed our direction right now although it's going to make landfall to our west so we will get very little wind or rain. He lives on the mainland so has a bit of distance from any passing storms. As he was leaving work today, he said in a playful way "Be careful of the hurricane!" and I said "oh, it's no big deal. It's gonna make landfall no further west than High Island" (he knows this of course). And he replied back "No! I heard it's going to jump over to hit that one little area right behind The Spot just off Seawall and then jump back over to Louisiana! You better hunker down!" I just laughed because it was SO SILLY! It was the LAST thing you'd expect anyone to say. His humor is very similar to the way Laura described it. Yes, I LOVE Ne, especially from the ENFPs and INFPs but also from the ISTJs (it's different between them)! It's probably my favorite function to interact with as well (I agree with Chris on this) or it's right up there with Te. It's always so funny because he really enjoys his own humor too. LOL Btw, the wind is picking up and it feels SO GOOD outside right now. I love hearing the fronds of my palm trees rustling in the wind just outside my windows.
1:07 the question, Nature vs Nurture, I'd say it's a combination. Most people are products of their environment and very much act as if they were raised. Then you have people like me who see things from our own as well as other's experiences, who are a product of self-reflection. I am very different from my siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. I do think this is a valuable area for research.
Love your channel. All the talking it out back and forth really helps my understanding of type. I think you do a great job as a moderator. Super well thought out questions. Just a suggestion, especially since I am new to type and don’t always have each typed stack readily in my mind, maybe you could add in the notes what the function stack is in general for each type you are interviewing or if available if you could add the specific stacks for each individual if they are available. I know some are jumpers so that may play into some of the cross talk as well. Hope that helps. Great job Joyce!❤️
On the subject of breaking out of your type, I think that's a cool idea to push yourself to use other functions the way another type would so you grow as a person. So as an INTJ, it would be interesting to try to be like an INFJ or ESFJ (which I can do pretty well for short bursts since my Stepmom is an ESFJ). I definitely think I'm pretty good at acting as different types for short periods of time. While I think we could all do it for short bursts of time, my experience has been that it becomes energetically draining and unhealthy the longer it continues so I would not want to try to become another type in the literal sense. Maybe that stems from the fact that I'm an Fi user and I believe we are all unique and that is our gift to the world and we are at our best when we embrace that. My experience is that our cognitive functions are our default state so they are the most effortless and the further we push against that to force ourselves into a less natural state, the more internal resistance we will feel. For me, it feels like a rubberband being stretch further and further with the resistance growing more and more until it eventually snaps. For example, as an Ni dom, the longer I am forced to use Fe or Se in any one sitting/time frame, the more I feel like I am coming apart at the seems until I will eventually want to scream or I will start to be angry and resentful that I'm being forced out of my natural state, like I'm being tortured and need to release the pain/tension. Granted, it would take a LONG time for that to happen and frankly, my mind is going to dissociate away from the Fe or Se behavior at some point automatically and I'll zone out as a self-preservation and I will lose the ability to force myself to continue behaving with constant Fe or Se in those moments. I once dated a woman who I think was probably an ISFJ. She was an accountant and we actually didn't share that much in common and didn't date for long but once at dinner, she snapped her fingers in front of my face and said "hey, what are you thinking?" Turns out I had stopped with my fork mid-way to my mouth and started zoning out and staring off into space as I went into my mind. I had not heard what she had just said. It was quick so I didn't miss much but my brain just needed an escape in that moment. I caught myself doing it other times after that and noticed that it would happen when I was on sensory overload. My brain would just check out. It's different than getting lost in your thoughts. It's literally sort of like you are shutting down. Like you are powering down to a stillness in your mind. There have been times in my life, due to having 3 jobs (7 days a week) for example, where I was in constant contact with people or the public, that I started having anxiety and feeling very down, not depressed but starting to feel hopeless about my life, like all I would ever do was work to barely get by? It was partly due to financial struggles (which I'm past now, yea!) but also due to the lack of time I had to spend on my Ni. My Ni is my happy place and it felt like that had been taken away from me and it felt soul-crushing. I don't believe it's healthy to not be able to exercise your dominant function for long stretches like that. Not only are you depriving yourself of your natural state of joy but you are depriving the world of your greatest gifts. We all NEED each other to enjoy and exercise our dominant functions. We just all need to remember to have the discipline to wrangle our inferior tidal waves too so we have much needed balance in our lives.
"My Ni is my happy place and it felt like that had been taken away from me and it felt soul-crushing. I don't believe it's healthy to not be able to exercise your dominant function for long stretches like that. Not only are you depriving yourself of your natural state of joy but you are depriving the world of your greatest gifts. We all NEED each other to enjoy and exercise our dominant functions." 💯💯💯 couldn't agree more.
im not sure if im an istj or intj. i lean towards istj and have gotten both istj and intj on tests. im not really a detail oriented person and prefer to know the big picture rather than the steps involved. intj and istjs are so similar
I used to be addicted to meth too. I’m totally unsure if that’s due to inferior se or not. My grandpa is addicted to gambling. I always typed him as an istp. What an interesting possibility if he’s actually an istj I pegged incorrectly.
Just had a very important insight - I really value nostalgic people because they make me feel safe and connected and in case I start a relationship again I will watch out for that trait. I think it's a value axis that gets overlooked usually. Never stumbled upon it and just realized it myself. (ENFP) I think nostalgia is the reason my strongest and longest friendship with my ISFJ friend is still alive after living far apart from one another for longer periods of time. We cherish the people and events from the past and I know she won't forget me when one of us moves to another city. That brings so much comfort and ease to me. I also think hard times in marriages can more likely be overcome with a nostalic person. A nostalic person might as well not just cut you out of it's life just like that or forever.
I am an INTJ according to the test but I always thought that my coldness, introversion and standoffishness was the result of upbringing. Interesting to know.
Hi Joyce! I enjoyed most of the typology videos. When Michael talked about his past addiction, I could relate. But when he mentioned how INTJs seem confident in controlling their issues and getting out of addiction, As an Infj, Joyce. I wondered if INFJs feel or think the same way?
AssuraPsych…wanted to hear your thoughts on possibilities to grow in opposite functions etc…Like Joyce, I desire to see if one can cross the axis and how far or long can you stay in a new pattern of perceiving & judging etc…if that rewired or just burns you out…. I’ve got to think on this more but it’s got me on the hook! 🤔
At 43:25, when Chris is talking about just doing the thing (eating the same thing) in order to accomplish the goal of weight loss, and Michael does the same thing, I wonder if this is a difference between regular INTJs and jumpers. I am totally not like that. I think I was in the past but now I HAVE to enjoy what I'm doing. My Dad is an ENTJ and he eats the same thing all the time because it accomplishes his goal. But I have to satiate my Fi and Se. It feels very childish but it doesn't matter. I just usually can't put Te over Fi. No matter how hard I try, my desire is going to win out, usually. I want what I want and no amount of Te is going to get in the way of that usually, unless it's really important perhaps to choose the Te over Fi for some reason. Fortunately, my desire usually aligns with my goals so it all works out. But I put a high value of Fi and Se experiences and pleasure. Honestly, that could also have just come with age. At this point in my life I'm like, life is too damn short and I intend to enjoy every minute. But my ENTJ Dad who is obviously much older even is so much more like Chris and Michael so I do think it's probably a Te over Fi thing. I am very focused on the ends too though (relating to what Joyce pointed out). It's just that I give the pleasure/desire more weight now. So I aim to have both, the whole package, the ends and the pleasure along the way. In other words, I've learned that enjoying the journey along the way to the goal is critical. Joyce, this might actually be an interesting video topic some time, to look at the differences between different ages within a specific type. We know that the functions evolve as we age so it would be interesting to analyze across that perspective as well.
ISTJs are blowing my mind right now. The mbti community focuses so much of N types we don't have the best collective understanding of what Si even is. This was so insightful.
I'm an enfp. My mother is intj and father is istj. My father was a perfect fit for me. A very comforting wholesome relationship. Hope I'll settle with one some day. Mind you, he was not only an istj, but a very righteous selfless one who was of service to everyone. He tragically passed away very suddenly few months ago, and losing him was my biggest fear in life. Rant over. Lol
That notion that these examples of those types get overwhelmed by social situations and attribute it to 4th slot Ne or Se seems to me like misidentifying problems with the polr as the inferior function. The real problem is they feel insecure about their abilities to manage themselves in the external emotional atmosphere but instead think it’s an aversion to thinking about many different stimuli at once.
INTJ: I don't eat out a lot, because I work as a cook. So when I do eat out if I get something that isn't satisfactory, I try to .... fix it, if I can't get it fixed I probably will just not come back. I don't make a fuss, I just want food that tastes good. I went to a steak house about two years ago, and ordered their barbeque brisket sandwich. Note: I live in Texas. The sandwich came out BLAND like they sat the salt shaker next to the meat but never used it. So I asked for a side of Jalapenos and some extra sauce. I got the sauce but instead of the pre-sliced pickled Jalapenos I was expecting I got a whole, raw unprocessed jalapeno pepper..... I wasn't impressed and haven't been back. It might seem petty, but this was steak house, in Texas, that didn't season their meat.
@@brain0nfire I like a challenge, most days. I enjoy the pace, and the way it forces me to optimize on the run. It makes great use of my ability to intake the macro and process that aspect, but also requires me to get the details right so it also has forced me to grow in that area. But probably the most infuriating aspect is dealing with the human element. Humans make mistakes and when a server makes a mistake it jams a wrench into my flow state which invariable gets me worked up. Especially when they're rude and unapologetic. Overall I wouldn't recommend it for an INTJ. There are careers out there that better cater to INTJ preferences and better leverage INTJ skills. It is also very draining socially depending on what type of restaurant, so for type 5's that have low social energy it easily depletes their social battery for the day, and then they need to recharge. So if you don't already have a social life, a foodservice job will probably not help in that area.
OMG, that was so cute Joyce "That is 10 thousand % true!" LOL My INFJ mom used to always say "That's a thousand % true" Or "I agree with that ONE THOUSAND PERCENT!" She'd be so excited when she said that, so very adorable! LOL and I'd be like "Mom, that's IMPOSSIBLE! You can't have more than 100% of a per cent be true because by definition, it's defining what proportion something is out of 100 (cent = 100 like century = 100 years, etc.).
@Michael, like your INFP friend, this INFP here is a super nostalgic person. I could see Fi + Si being the reason why? If so, I'm curious, is there any type that's as nostalgic as us, or are we second to none?
I think INFP is the type most likely to be nostalgic. In the video, Ryan mentioned how he isn't particularly nostalgic and that Si as a dominant function is more neutral and analytical about its memories.
Regarding the nature vs nurture discussion, another anecdote supporting that is a person's political leanings. Our entire family is left leaning. I'm a Bernie girl but both parents and step-parents are more liberal, probably more centrist Democrats than conservative except for my step-dad who leans a tiny bit more conservative but definitely socially liberal. And except for my step-Dad, we all despise Trump except my brother who LOVES Trump. We joke that we don't know WHERE that comes from. I personally attribute that to his function stack. He's an ISTP and I think maybe he has a difficult time connecting the relationships between some of the behaviors and values (or lack thereof) of Trump that the rest of us can so easily discern.
Don't tell an ISTJ to go against their gut instinct ("not going to do because of that perception") this is what gets ISTJs into workplace hazards, my ISTP father is very strict that ISTJs don't listen to people to try to go against their gut in a workplace environment, I think what he is trying to say is we are going to do that, but low Ni, means we don't actually choose what we are avoiding, its just Si-instinct
I've been recently reading and hearing that sometimes people see themselves as being dominant in one personality type function when they are really dominant in an opposite function and the one they think is their dominant function might actually be their inferior function that they are subconsciously focusing on because they are trying to improve it. Those discussions are suggesting that even though I've always tested out as an INTJ in tests, I might actually be Si dominant rather than Ni dominant. Like maybe I'm an ISTJ rather than an INTJ. I've found videos that explain how people can get the two types mixed up that are interesting. Videos like this one though really remind me of why I've always tested as INTJ. The more I listen to Laura and Ryan, the more I realize that I don't actually behave that way. I'm really more like Michael and Chris. A good example of this is that when I really think about it, my memories of the past are never as concrete and detailed than what Laura and Ryan are saying. Things like songs, meals etc. don't trigger specific, detailed memories, but rather trigger familiar feelings and impressions that I've felt before in a previous time that I heard that song or ate that dish. Like Michael and Chris say, I'm more likely to imagine things that may or may not have ever happened. In fact, when I do try to remember some event in the past with any degree of detail, I'll find that my memory of the event is vastly different than another person's memory of the same event. It's like my imagination gets all jumbled up with reality to the point that when I try to recall past events, fantasy and reality blur together until I can't tell them apart. The past for me is like trying to remember a dream I had last night. I, like Michael, sometimes realize that I've been spending a long time fantasizing, daydreaming what it might be like to be a different person. Playing out a scenario in which I'm maybe doing a different career than what I'm actually doing. Unless I'm hyper focused on accomplishing a task in order to achieve a goal, I'm pretty much living in my imagination while the reality around me can actually feel less real than what's in my mind. There's a lot of confusion about all of this for me, especially these days because these days, I've developed health problems that are degrading my ability to remember or recall things even more than I used to be. I'm physically exhausted all the time due to insomnia, muscle aches, intense itch all over, depression, etc. so it's so difficult to focus on long-term goals and to further a career now. I'm also quite likely to be autistic based on what I've learned from friends who work in the field and conversations I've had with them in which they've told me that based on observing me over the years they've known me that I do exhibit most of the symptoms of high functioning autism. So, between physical health problems that I have now and the neurodivergent nature of my mind, I can't help but wonder if those aren't clouding or masking what my true personality type would be without them.
I relate so much to what you said that a song/meal would rather trigger familiar feelings and impressions that you’ve felt before in a previous time, it’s the feelings I used to have that kind of "bring me back in time" but it’s not a detailed memory? Or it can also remind me of a period of time I used to listen to that song, like an overall impression of that period that lasted a few weeks or months maybe. There are songs I still can’t listen to cause they remind me of a bad period of my life. And I also hate listening to songs I’ve listen to in the past in general, I like finding new songs, cause I don’t like how I have feelings attached to most songs I’ve listened to, now I'm a new person I don’t like feeling those old feelings 😅 But I confuse memories that are detailed with those that are more vague. Sometimes I think my memories are detailed, but maybe they aren’t? How can I know that for sure, cause sometimes yes, I can think of a few details when describing a place I've been, whatever caught my eye, but it’s not an actual vivid image I see where I can clearly see all the details, it’s vague with a few details here and there that I don’t clearly see but I remember what color they were maybe or what shape, but it’s blurry and hard to remember exactly, like a smudged image. Do Si dominants actually see the details in their memories clearly? Are those memories very vivid/precise? I don’t get that part. The difference between INTJ and ISTJ is confusing to me too and I relate so much to everything you said. I get typed mostly as INTJ and once or twice as ISTJ. But I would also say I think I'm closer to ISTJ. Usually when talking to people and they tell me something, I instantly think of a similar experience cause I don’t know what else to reply so this is how I can show them I understand what they are going through, or tell them what helped me in a similar situation. This to me sounds very much like ISTJ. Did you figure out your type?
I think that I have figured it out. What I've figured out is that I will never completely fit any of the MBTI type descriptions because they were designed to describe neurotypical people. I have been taking tests and evaluations with my wife's coworkers who are special education teachers and It turns out that I have high functioning autism. This explains a lot. All of my life, I have never fit in, even amongst other nerds, really. I realized from an early age that I thought quite differently from other people I knew. Since MBTI, Enneagram and other personality theories were not designed with autism in mind, it really is possible that I won't be able to quite fit any of their categories. Unless one or more of these personality type research teams decides to develop categories for neurodivergent people, none of the types will quite fit me. I love music too. I do enjoy listening to new music and seeing new shows, but I don't mind hearing and seeing things over and over again. I have shelves full of favorite albums (on several different formats), movies and books - all of which I've listened to, watched or read multiple times since I got them. I have a set of especially favorite albums which I listen to on a just about weekly basis. Also favorite movies and books that I rewatch or reread at least once a year. There's something cozy and a little comforting, I suppose, about familiar things. It's probably also why I keep my collection of favorite childhood toys and games. Like favorite books, movies, songs etc. these toys and other movie or TV show memorabilia remind me of the people who gave them to me years ago, or who I was with who cared about me when I first heard the song or saw the show. I think that I repress most of my bad memories and even when I do think of them, I tend to push them out if my mind by replacing them with happy memories. I don't show my emotions on the outside unless I'm having a meltdown and can't help it. I try to be cold and logical when I'm trying to accomplish something I consider important, but inside and in unguarded moments when I'm alone, I can be pretty goofy and emotional. @@ema-e7u
@@enfieldjohn101 Wow, I also always have been telling my friends and my sister that I probably have some kind of autism, they kinda laugh at me but I'm being serious and they don’t get it. This could explain why I can’t type myself after so long. Are there any tests you would recommend that I take to see if I actually do have autism? I also relate to what you said about listening to favorite albums or watching favorite movies/tv shows :) when I said I don’t want to listen to old songs I meant songs that bring bad emotions I don’t want to feel anymore. But there are songs and movies and tv shows that are very comforting to me and bring back good feelings. "There's something cozy and a little comforting, I suppose, about familiar things." 100% relate to this :)
Unfortunately, you can't really take any reliable self-tests for autism because it is a condition of thinking and reacting differently than neurotypical people do, especially in social situations, so you have to be observed and evaluated by other people who are trained and experienced in doing so. There might be some psychologists or analysts who could attempt to evaluate you based on recorded videos or live video, but the trick would be getting that footage without you being too aware that you are being filmed. People can't help but act differently when they are focusing on the fact that they are on camera. There are little online quizzes, but its even harder, nay impossible, to evaluate your own behavior in social situations when it comes to potential autism than it is to evaluate your own personality. People mistype themselves frequently with MBTI, Enneagram etc., but they always misevaluate themselves when it comes to neurodivergence. @@ema-e7u
41:59 - I can totally relate, although now I'm married, but I still order the exact same food every single day from the exact same restaurants for about 7 years now. Before that though, I tried many different foods, and I tried to find (to me) the most delicious foods in every restaurant, so now I now that if I want to eat fried pork, than I get it from the North-Rain Restaurant, but if I want to eat fried chicken, than I get it from the restaurant that's in front of the Police Station. The experimentation part took some time, but in the long run, it turned out to be the most efficient way to get the food I like and there will be never a disappointment in taste, because these are small restaurants run by 1 families and it's super rare when they get new cook, so it always tastes the same every time. (PS. "1 families?" - you might ask. I'm not native English speaker and I don't know how to say this correctly, but.. Come on! You know what I mean :) )
The weird part is that this is the typical steotype for the ISTJ and it was said by an INTJ. They would have different motivations. Michael does it out of the motivation to stay in his mind and be productive and therefor not taking good care of his fysical needs. An ISTJ seems to be more Conservative and relies on what he experienced before. So If it's good never change a winning team.
Yeah, then I have the same motivation as Michael, I never really want to eat, but I must eat, therefore if I must eat then I better make it as streamlined as I can. I have 20 pairs of exact same looking shirts in my wardrobe, because I don't allow myself to waste my brainpower to making annoying decisions like "Hmm, what clothes should I wear today?" If I would do that, I would have to start my day by wasting brainpower for choosing clothes, choosing food etc. It's a big deal, and you might never think that if you never try.
Dude might be on to something on that gambling theory for the INTJ brain. That makes sense kind of... I love gambling, but I only do to gamble when I have the perception that I have an edge. I don't actually need an edge to partake, but I just have to know that it's possible to have edge.
I just experienced watching Chris Pratt acting as a soldier in the Terminal List -perhaps aiming to come across more XSTJ?! Or XSTP!?? …he kept leaking out ENFP 😂 I was distracted but entertained by that!
I, as an INTJ, find ISTJs a bit frustrating. My ex-brother-in-law was an ISTJ and he struck as having a linear, short-range viewpoint. It was black and white thinking vs. big picture thinking with a tolerance of nuance. He was a political conservative and I a progressive. He understood politics on a superficial level and parroted talking points, but I was capable of and wanted to dig deep. He stopped trying to argue politics with me as I'd paint him into a corner pretty quickly.
To all ISTJ's: I am really fascinated by your memory
@@Utopiboxen I think that we all fell that way at some point. This is good because none type can label us, but it can cause a great confusion.
In your entire life, have you recalled concrete experiences and details, comparing scenarios from the past to the now? Or have you imagined your future years ahead and just knowing how to get there, always wondering what was going to happen?
Remebering that under stress, ISTJs imagine terrible scenarios for what could happen due to the inappropriate use of their Ne. INTJs become reckless, impulsive and prone to risky behaviour, due to to the inappropriate use of their Se.
@@Utopiboxen Use more introspection. Think back to your childhood, your teenage years and your adulthood. Which actions have you naturally felt yourself inclined to taking? If those answers are mostly consistent you can use that to determine your correct type.
To all INTJs: I'm really fascinated by your memory
I'm an INTJ, and my dad is an ISTJ. The best way I could describe the difference between us is that I extract the big picture from details, and he extracts details from the big picture. I'm focused on strategy, he's focused on tactics. He takes pleasure from figuring out every nut and bolt of a machine, while I'm trying to figure out how to build a machine to achieve a goal. It's "how things work" vs "what is this all for?". The disagreements we've had have almost always been about me arguing that he can't see the forest for the trees, while he is all about never making a mistake, and outworking everyone else. We would probably be better off if our roles were reversed. The INTJ developing a plan, and the ISTJ implementing it, is probably the ideal. @ 16:40 I have literally heard those exact words come out of my dad's mouth.
Ni is bonkers to me, I always go over events and conversations over and over in my head trying to better understand what happened and storing it for later. I can’t fathom creating a vision of something that never happened and using that to make sense of an idea.
It's an interesting difference. And being aware of these differences allows us to communicate better. I finally learned that istjs get the picture from the details so details are kinda non negotiable, where as for us... They're Extras we don't want to bother with most of the time. It's almost like a man in the helicopter and a man on the ground trying to make a map. The guy in the helicopter makes a rough sketch that encompasses the general layout of the terrain. Details are irrelevant to him since he sees the whole forest already. But the guy in the ground has to remember every tree and exactly where it stands in order to draw his own version of the same map. And the same is with experiences. With ni you kinda live in the future, you can already see what's coming, living through it is irrelevant. But with Si you need specific and concrete previous experiences to guide you, so in order to learn things you have to experience them first.
This difference is why I consider Si Doms to be excellent employees and Ni Doms to be excellent employers. One is naturally meant to plan ahead, another is naturally meant to implement the plan with utmost precision.
As an Ne dom, I do both ironically. (I go over events and convos in my head trying to better understand -- or moreso havr to connect "the thing" to a similar concept (Ne) -- but I also I love creating visions of something that never happens).
Me, single ENFP: Am I the only one sitting here thinking Michael is really hot...? I wonder if he's single...
Michael: I'm single.
Joyce: You know how many people are going to hit on you in the comments section now that you said you're single?
Me: *dies laughing*
Oh my god. I’m not alone. He is super hot 😂 his vibe and everything
How would he EVEN be single at this stage? SURELY he's been captured by an ENFP by now!
He is an INFP so yeah.
@@mr.g6177 he's an INTJ unless you meant yourself being INFP Mr G
@@user-pk5pl7ox1e You are oblivious. I seriously don't care what my type but i guess it requires explanation. Look at the stark difference between Chris and Michael. The only way to find out who is the real INTJ is by comparison with joyce who also has Ni primary. Looking at the video I hope you can form your own conclusion of the types by comparing them since him being INFP is just my opinion.
I can see the Ni types zoning out when Si's going into details. LOL
The thing Micheal said about trusting that things are working themselves out in the background (unconscious Ni) was something I’ve noticed a lot in myself (INTJ). It’s actually a big takeaway from typology for me - that I can trust that the Ni is going to happen, and that stopping, sleeping, or tuning out is actually more helpful than trying to consume the details. Super helpful, I imagine, to plenty of INTJs. And I laughed at the following piece, that being that once you do get the Ni, the Te has to get going, and get going fast so that the actual thing does get done.
Anyways, I wanted to highlight my appreciation for that description. It is a perfect description of my cognitive process at work.
But really, everything Micheal, and many INTJs say appeals to my Ni (+Fi) quite profoundly. (Highlighting now, the disconnect from who I used to be... very relatable).
Thanks for your videos, Joyce.
Extremely well put, Elle! Ni & its background processing abilities are quite interesting. Thank you for tuning in and offering your perspective. That was quite informative. 🙂
because the xSFJs and xNTPs in your lives work non-stop for you to have those things
@@carlurbananimals NTP's work non-stop? Where have you found those? Have you found some fossils?
@@PowerRedBullTypology I am an ISTJ so it is easy for me to find people
@@carlurbananimals What makes finding people more easily since you're an ISTJ?
As an older INTJ, I used to never feel regret or nostalgia or any of that; but as I age, I am feeling that more and more. I think as you age, you begin to evaluate your life. You begin to ask questions about it all. And some of those require you to review your past. It's just a natural part of aging. I don't feel any nostalgia about high school AT ALL (except marching and symphonic band was SO FUN). But, for example, I miss the times I spent with other grad students in graduate school, the conferences to places like Monaco or other travel, the field research and research cruises. I felt like I belonged with them and had finally found people with whom I could relate and it was fun. I miss that.
And I miss going dancing and going on camping trips with my gay friends in Austin when we were in our 30's. We'd go in groups and sit around the campfire and go on hikes and go birding and I'd take a ton of pictures (I'm also a pretty good photographer and have done a ton of darkroom work with film development). I loved that. And I miss being married (I need to start dating again I guess, lol)...stuff like that. I guess it's related to things that I need to bring back into my current life that have taken a back seat due to all my working. Work work work. INTJs work too much sometimes I think. We love our work but we gotta remember the other important aspects of life too, like the social piece and the adventure.
OMG, yes I do know INFPs who dwell in the past, both good and bad memories. I definitely don't dwell on the past, or on regrets or nostalgia though. I usually try to avoid them a bit because they are not pleasant and aside from learning from them, it does no good to suffer. But the feelings do surface from time to time and it makes me think I need to call this or that friend and plan another trip and not let the fact that we are so busy all the time prevent us from still having those fun experiences. As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that yes, I DO need to do this! :-)
And the other thing is I do have some regrets now that I've developed my feeling Fe and Fi side. I remember back on the ways I've treated people in the distant past and I do have regrets about that. When I was young, I was just oblivious. Now I wish I could go back and do things differently in certain experiences. I feel a bit of guilt for the obliviousness and lack of sensitivity of my youth. Like I WISH I would have understood INFJs when my sweet mom was still alive. I think I could have avoided many arguments with her over my younger years especially. :-(
Yes!! I love how Chris (AuraPsych) pointed out that as Ni-doms we can learn our life lessons through playing out the scenario so as to never having to actually experience certain things because we know that where that trajectory goes is a dead end or has negative/adverse consequences. Details not necessary. That's how I never got into drugs whereas every member of my family has.
Also, Michael with the Ni-leap of faith... sort of scary looking from the outside in but when we are going through something that Ni-leap of faith is a "must do" and usually non-negotiable. To me it can seem impulsive but it's taken a while to get to that point.
Memories for me feel like stagnant flashes of photographs taken and I can usually see myself. I am looking at myself in the scene and the flash is frozen in time/moment. There is an overall concept, impression or expression or even an energy or feel of the situation. I cannot ascertain any additional details from recalling the memory and the memory fades over time. Most of the time the most memorable of memories are unresolved pieces to a larger puzzle in my life... sort of “loose ends” that need closure and a final resting place in my mind/memory. Memories are in the third person and I am removed.
And I agree that I don't feel regret... I just take the lesson or concept and move forward. Life for me is a fast moving train... if I happen to fly by certain experiences that are still outstanding (lacking closure) with unresolved emotions, when it catches up it's like, OH CRAP! this whole concept was missing and has not been uncovered until now... and now I have to deal with this to move past it.
I think I use tokens and photographs to freeze time and also remind me of how far I have come (there is usually a sadness attached to it even if it was positive). It feels ghostly? LOL But the memories exist as jumping off points... resources for orienting the present and future. I still have all my photographs from my previous boyfriends because the photographs represent links in time ... and a way to remind myself I have lived, this is what I did with this time.
Wow the way you describe memories is exact how I remember them only I feel more my pressence and feelings with it so it doesn't have to be sad/nostalgic. I am obsessed with taking photographs and rewatching my life from time to time to realise what I have seen and experienced and can be thankfull/happy about. I do store a lot of memories which some intuition people seem to be inpressed by but once they are processed they seem to disappear or I just remember the photographs I have taken or the stories I have told. Pretty magical to read what I never could discribe but somewhere felt was different from most people. And also how people experience those memories and thought/cognitive processes so differently. (I knew ofcourse because of mbti but in this video it became even more clear) (enfj)
💯💯💯 well said!! -entj
As an INFJ, I feel such resonance with what Michael said about almost living as another person in your head, drawing out scenarios. So glad I'm not the only one 😅 It makes for great source material for creative writing.
Inferior Ne and Se seem to have a similar essence. The ISTJs are overwhelmed by the possibilities of what will happen when things are in a stressful state. The present is overwhelming not necessarily because of whats presently happening but because they can't see whats going to happen because of it or which direction its heading, too many possibilities, fear of the unknown. Whereas the INTJs are moreso stressed by the current scenario that they didnt project for, therefore having to deal with the realness of the current situation. Very similar, subtly different.
yes!!!
42:14 it's really funny that Michael mentioned this because I tend to cook the same dish for like two months, if I'm not consciously caring about diversity in my diet.
The intuitive and sensing sides have so much to teach us. Intuition works in the background, and that's important. Sensation reminds us that data is important too.
Totally Laura. I have a friend/coworker ISTJ who is a programmer and every once in a while he'll crack me up because he will take something literal to it's most absurd extreme. He knows he's doing it and we both know he's trying to be funny which makes it even more funny. I love Ne.
As an INTJ I remember as a child having barbies and not understanding the purpose of them to play with. I wanted to be outside exploring and learning or finding new things. For the nurturing part, my mom is very follow the rules, she doesn’t even speed when she drives and I am kinda like that because of learning it from her. But I do remember ask why so much as a child because I wanted to understand.
When I was 5 I asked my mom how you know when to shift (she drove a manual). She answered, "You just know," and for years I was convinced I would never learn to drive a car. (I did, of course, and to this day I will drive only manuals, haha!)
The idea of the ISTJ being more into gambling vs INTJ enjoying sensory overindulgence is interesting. Another demonstration of where my dad and I are different. I can't imagine wanting to regularly buy a lotto ticket - just a waste of money, the odds are astronomically against you (better chance of being struck by lightning on two separate occasions than winning the powerball, lol) but my dad, in spite of being intelligent and mathematically inclined, would habitually buy lotto tickets and spend time daydreaming about what he could do with it if he won. 🤔
As an INTJ though I also relate to the humor of taking things to the excessively literal extreme. A lot of people don't get it but I find it really entertaining.....
Some ISTJs and their lottery tickets! :) That's my ISTJ father too (as you already know from the video). Thank you for sharing @dirtywhitellama!!
@@JoyceMeng22 Actually didn't manage to watch all of this last night - the how would you break a rule question is super interesting for me, I wish the INTJs had answered it, haha XD I don't usually directly break rules, but if I do, it's usually a question of understanding why the rule is there - what negative outcome is it trying to prevent? - and making sure to avoid that outcome even if I bend or break the rule itself.
bro the thing you just described about lotto tickets is literally my ISFJ mum haha. She just won't stop buying them even though i tell her its a waste of time and money and she's like "but imagine if we won" and starts imagining all the possibilities 😂even as an INFP i somewhat get why she does it but i still think its an absolute waste and honestly would never buy one.
After a lot of research and introspection this has done it for me. I’m sure I’m an INTJ now. Thank you so much ❤️
It’s interesting to see how much the two types have in common.
Absolutely! ISTJ is one of the types that's most similar to the INTJ.
The listening to music part is very interesting. By function stacks I believe I am an ENTJ. Today at lunch the restaurant started playing Downton Abbey's theme song. I felt an immense appreciation, but I certainly didn't recall my first time watching the show haha. I could retrieve that information from my mind if you ask for it, but it isn't something I would naturally do. And it would be at most "when was the first time I watched it." It wouldn't play out like a movie.
Another one I relate to is "INTJs tend to rush through the story details and go to the conclusion, while ISTJs tend to describe it more vividly." I'm often very frustrated when my mother describes an event, because she mentions many details that's irrelevant to her point. I often zone out or just ask her directly, "What is your point?" After she finishes, I can always boil her description down to 3 sentences.
I do relate but the asking for a point would be typical ENTJ I think 😂 Althow too much details get's me very restless and irritated too 🙈 It's practicing patience for me and trying to guide someone to their point especially SP's seem to forget to have a point and just tell all sorts of stories as they seem to enjoy the route where we want to go to the destination as fast as possible 😂 (ENFJ)
My dad is an esfj and is always providing useless details to his point..droning on forever. However, when I provide details of something that happened that are essential to what I am saying, he will cut me off and rush me through. So irritating !
I'd like to say two things: Si doesn't put values, the memories are neutral. The value of the memory comes later with the process of the feeling function. And, I liked to see the discution about inferior Se, the few times I could see this topic well explained were just at Frank James's channel. It is an amazing video, as always.
"The memories are neutral" absolutely!! Thank you for saying that, Samuel. :) Amazing & thoughtful commentary on the video, as always.
Michael THIS! Yes! 14:34. It seems to happen subconsciously for me as well. I've learned that intuition is far more trustworthy than any other function, like Michael was saying. If I try to use Te or Ti to work it out step by step, it's never as perfect as it is when I just let my intuition do it's thing in the background and trust it. It has literally never let me down. I've learned from experience that my intuition is the most reliable thing I have at my disposal. The problem comes as Michael said when you have to Te hurry. Also, re sleeping, I've also thought Ni processing is why I sleep a lot.
I enjoyed and felt the really annoyed Michael's face when Laura interrupted him 2 times in a row HAHAH
Regarding Ryan's theory on the inferior functions. It makes sense. As an INTJ, I do have a tendency to eat for the pleasure of it even if I may not be hungry. When I was a skinny little kid, my babysitter said I would want to eat when I was bored. She wrote that in a poem about me when I was 3. So yeah, I do think the inferior plays a role in that. That being said, I don't drink or take drugs. I of course dabbled in a lot of that for the curiosity and experience in college but got bored with it. I much preferred my sober mental state where I could be in my imagination unhindered by any chemical substances. I don't like how I feel on drugs or alcohol usually (sometimes it's fun but I especially don't like how I feel the next day) and I've never had any pull toward drugs/alcohol. Alcohol just tastes bad! LOL That being said, I used to smoke cigarettes. I quit many years ago though (probably substituted food for them to some degree because that's when my weight problem began).
Love your Channel. Very authentic and pleasantly nonscripted Content.
You should do a bigger Panel comparing INTJs to INFJs.
I'm kind of confused between those two Aspects within myself.
Observing and comparing the Demeanor of People helps me to track their Minds and Variety is really helpful to find Commonalities.
I'm sure one of those would be beneficial to many.
Yes!! Will do a bigger panel on INFJ vs INTJ. 😊 Happy you like the channel, Marc.
Si is a very useful function 😍 its like a RAM in my system where information is stored I can have access to it. Tho it is my inferior function, it is not stable and just pops out when I have a deja vu or when someone ask the same question in the present moment.
That was SO INTERESTING about how you can tell between Ni and Si based on their self-reference and contextualizing! YES! Can totally see that. Also I love that idea of using images. That's such an obvious one but I never think of it. I'm gonna try that on my ISTJ coworker Monday and see how he responds. Heehee. :-) Actually I'm gonna do this to everyone in my office (there are about 30 of us). I've got them all typed pretty well, only about 7 of us are Intuiters and the rest are Sensors, I'm pretty sure. This will be a good quick way to nail that down. Thank you! Interestingly, I work in an IT dept and almost all of us are high level thinkers which you'd expect. The only feelers are 3 of the supervisors (all female - 2 ISFJ and 1 ENFP) and 2 of the team leads (1 female/ISFJ I think and 1 female/ENFJ) and one other technician a male/ENFP. We had a male manager ESFJ but poor guy recently got fired to being too emotional basically. He drove everyone crazy but I kinda liked him.
JOYCE this was so good. NEED one on ISTJ and ISFJs :D
Absolutely. ISFJ vs ISTJ is coming up!!! 🙂
This is sooooo good. Joyce, your explanation at 9:20 about how your Ni goes back to pull out some meaning from a past event but is not looking at any of the concrete aspects of it is so spot on. I relate so closely with Michael and AsuraPsych as well. And it's so wild to hear how the ISTJs are so focused on the sensory. Great panel!
It's interesting how obvious the ISTJ vs INTJ difference is just by appearance
Yes. The differences come all the way down to how they look. It's insane! 🙂
@@JoyceMeng22 ISTJs are from the planet Vulcan. Sarek, ISTJ & Spock, INTJ!
How do you guys differentiate them so easily.. I’ve known myself my whole life yet can’t figure out my type :)
Great INTJ examples!
Glad you think so! 😊
As an INTP, it's so surreal to me how I relate to both types in different ways during the Si vs Ni discussion. I absolutely do recall memories in all their detail (and they ARE often nostalgic for me! Not sure if that's somehow unique to 3rd slot Si). I remember where I was, what I was doing, who I was with, etc. And I don't try to rush through the details (when I'm by myself). However, I have often used the exact analogy referenced by Michael that I feel disconnected from reality as if I have that third person view and life is a video game (I think Se PoLR and Se inferior people have a lot in common in terms of how separate they feel from "reality"... and perhaps there's some overlap with type 5s living in their heads. I'm also a 5w4 like Michael). As an intuitive, I do tend to find analysis of details without extrapolation of meaning rather tedious and boring, but it's not an Ni meaning. It's very much so an Ne consideration of possibilities used to calculate which are most likely, and categorize data from memories into thematic categories.
There are certain elements of Si I've found to be unique to SJs though. My memories do not play like a movie from beginning to end. They do sometimes play chronologically, but in tiny snippets, and I can fast forward or rewind to the relevant part I want to recall. I've talked to other STJs who have told me their memories also play like a movie, but that they cannot fast forward... So if you say to them, "Hurry up and get to the point!" they cannot fast forward to the more relevant part or simply describe the relevance. Instead they will continue the story chronologically in excruciating detail, just talking a little faster to get through all those details quickly lol. Because like Ryan said, to them, the details _are_ the point. I have often accused STJs of "missing the forest for the trees." Even as a fellow Si user, it's very frustrating to me to sit through a story with too many details that hold no relevance to the frame through which it's being analyzed. But that's the part they don't seem to get... _which_ details are relevant... Aren't they all?
Anyway, thanks for this talk, Joyce! There's a person in my life who I originally typed as ISTJ, but he insists he is an INTJ, and this video helped further confirm my initial analysis. Now if only I could convince him!
Fascinating thoughts, Heather!! Yes, a lot of ISTJs mistype themselves as INTJs. Thank you for watching :)!
" but that they cannot fast forward"
This actually explains a lot. One thing that bothers me is that it is clearly a weakness and the domination function should be a strength compared to tertiary. Maybe learning how to fast forward or cut to the chase for ISXJs is the same as learning to listen to your feelings as an INXP or learning to at least recall the most relevant details as an INXJ.
As entp I also relate to the movie snippets part. However ever those snippets are always in low saturation and you are constantly moving them around and it's almost impossible for me to chronologicially replay something. It's like you take these snippets and constantly mash them together to create something new or even just understand reality. Since the outer world is so blury you mind kind takes these snippets, mashes them together to fake an se reality.
I actually think that the way to distinguish the different types is though the way they experience/percieve reality. As you can see, even between intp and entp is a difference on how we see the world. I actually think you experience of the perception is cloeer to infp than entp. While the judging fuction is kind of what meaning you extract from the information that you perceive. Like you can play the movie in your head but the meaning you extract is from ti while for infp the meaning comes from fi.
@Susana A it could be a thing with masculine ne and feminine si that leads to first of all mistyping as ni potentially but also yeah may have this effect in combination with trauma. I definitly had that aswell when I dealt with trauma, plus dissasociation (but I don't really wanna get into that).
From experience I can say (as my mother is an estj) that estj also often get people unser their wing and give them tasks (I actually think this is kind of nature of te tbh, bouncing tasks with the tribe and or for the tribe, but also I don't really think that this excludes the possibility of working alone, they just have to externalise their process). The working alone thing could be an indicator of ti in my opinion, tho I had to rewatch Death Note in order to really no if Light internislises his process or not. Tho that would be a further indicator of him being an infj (tho I still am open to the possibility of him being intj, again my argument against that was his complete lack ot awarness of any external factor which leads to him having consistent plans but not which really work well in reality as it constantly gave away close about him as person which to me seems like another indicator ti instead of te)
@Susana A I appreiciate you in depth analyzis again, I don't remeber Death Note that clearly to really respond so I needed to rewatch in order to evuluate my analysis. Now where you tell me about the ne Part it's more the opposite around. Maybe I mistyped him as having a Lack of ne because he didn't see outer possibilities that clearly like the ability on how people could potentially react towards his plans (ok I completely suck at explaining my thoughts, especially written, I'm sorry). I wish I could name any example but I don't remember as clearly anymore. (I only watched Death Note once so yeah).
I love this channel! - ISTJ
Aw thank you, Maria!! 😊
1:32:45 "Frankly it's me annoying the ISTJ" A common happening in my marriage 😂 (Me - the INTJ)
I love how you teach and explain things so well Joyce. That was so interesting about looking at where people begin (e.g. Ni users start with the concept vs Si users start with their own experience). I totally relate to that.
💗 Glad that takeaway was helpful! :)
These videos are SO insightful, thank you, Joyce! As a medical student, I am pretty sure that this will all prove beyond useful in my future work. Also, happy birthday! ❤️
:) I'm glad these videos are helping you
This is SO GOOD! Thank you Joyce, Michael, Laura, Ryan and Chris. As an INTJ, my experience of Ni is like Joyce and Ryan said and a bit like Michael. It's like I have a computer process running in the background at all times sort of "listening" or "watching out" for patterns in my experience to emerge or otherwise reveal themselves into my consciousness. I work in IT so that's the best analogy I can come up with. I too feel like I'm having a third person experience and I also do a TON of metacognition. It's almost constant. I analyze my own thoughts, impressions, feelings, etc. And I feel like I'm definitely detached at times. Not detached as in an out-of-body experience or disassociation, but more like an observer on the outside looking in, disengaged from inside the interaction...like a teacher observing her class engaged in an activity or a bird taking in the landscape from high in the sky. Seeing the larger picture and all the parts of it.
Whether it be an actual concrete Se experience or one in my imagination, doesn't matter. I don't always deliberately look for the patterns. I just seem to become aware of them, all the time. But, the more open I am and the more often I make a space/time for them, or ask specific, focused questions, to allow the patterns or other answers to reveal themselves, the more often they do. So I do have a certain amount of control over them. But like Michael said, they do take time.
Regarding the experiences I analyze, like Joyce said, they are (probably more) often fantasy than concrete experience. I don't mean fantasy like a video game or Narnia or Harry Potter or going up into space travel. I mean fantasy as in daydreaming about the camper van I'm going to build out in a couple of years and how I'm going to travel across the continent...imagining what all I need to do to bring it to fruition the exact way I want it to be. It's basically just SUPER planning. Or imagining how my business will grow over time and in which ways it will develop, who it will impact/help, etc. I just see everything related to it and how it all fits together and I start working on it with my Te.
When a pattern or deeper meaning or connection emerges into my consciousness, it may feel like an epiphany if it's a bigger leap but if it's smaller connections, then it just feels like my mind is connecting various pieces of information together like putting together a puzzle, in a sort of mundane, puttering kind of way. It's mild and comforting.
I do this deliberately when i need to learn something, like for work or a new hobby. I'll study and review the entire subject matter to determine the full scope of it (e.g. how to build a website) to see what all the various concepts and skills that I'd need to learn and build my mental model for the framework/scaffold of it. For example, I'd determine that I'd have to learn about web hosting, html, css, web copywriting, marketing, building a brand identity, building the database, learning color theory, etc. Then I'd prioritize which of those I need to learn first and I'd dive into the details for that piece first and mostly master that part. Like I might focus on the html/css part first, then the web hosting, then WordPress, then the design aspects, etc. Eventually it call comes together and I am really good at putting together websites.
And then I'll be really interested in the relationships within my newly learned skill. Like I'll see the patterns between my new web design systems and how websites are built differently by various types of programmers. For example websites built for small businesses are extremely different than those build for enterprises. I'll recognize the ways in which they differ. I'll study via comparing and contrasting the various aspects. I'll notice the similarities and the differences. And I'll notice patterns in the similarities and differences.
Or I might compare and contrast the knowledge and skills I have from my aquaria husbandry business that I used to have (which includes natural aquascaping with live plants, rocks/wood, water chemistry that matches the actual river or lake that species of fish evolved in - e.g. African cichlids from Lake Malawi need limestone rock aquascaping and water with a pH around 8.0 - fish behavior and breeding, etc.) to how you'd handle aquatic husbandry on a large scale (like a large fish store or aquarium that the public would visit. I enjoy playing with the different ways they relate to each other. And I might even see patterns between more disparate subjects, like I'll notice that both web design and aquaria both have essentially 2 big aspects; a scientific aspect and a design aspect. I'll compare the design concepts used in aquascaping with the design concepts used in web design. Fun side note, check this out! This is someone I've studied for years and his work is AMAZING! I've built many smaller tanks that looked very much like his massive ones. www.aquariumarchitecture.com/archive/legendary-aquarist-takashi-amano/
I can often find connections nobody else would imagine. I keep building on these connections in my imagination in areas that I find interesting. I'll see a pattern and then I'll suppose what might happen as a result of a connection and then as a result of that connecting with another thing and then as a result of that (like predicting 5 moves ahead in a chess game). And very quickly, I am off deep into my fantasy of what could or will be. It's endless and very enjoyable. But I almost exclusively do this with an extremely sharp focus on my life's goals. I don't waste all of this on just anything that strikes my fancy. It's got to align with my values and move me closer to fulfilling my life's purpose.
And, I don't really look back and my memory for details is not good either....UNLESS they are details associated with something I've mastered (like web design, aquaria, gardening, sustainability, etc.). Then I've got super good Ti that's hashed over all of that and my memory is good.
Hard relate to feeling like an "observer on the outside looking in, disengaged from inside the interaction...like a teacher observing her class engaged in an activity or a bird taking in the landscape from high in the sky. Seeing the larger picture and all the parts of it."
You really understand web design!! Also, aquatic husbandry; Takashi has such cool tanks!! That's so awesome. :)
Awe, that ending was so sweet.
OMG this is going to be super EPIC!!! Since the day I have been typed by you, I am now curious than ever lol.
It was SO fun to type you, Syed. You are a breath of fresh air in human form. Hope you liked watching!! :)
Wow the whole thing was fantastic. Love the intro and I learned a lot. Specially about how Si see’s the past and not all healthy ones are consistently telling stories of the past. And happy birthday Joyce. Woah an INTJ said happy birthday, it took my INTJ, husband, 4 years to remember mine.
4 years!! Oh wow, INTJs are something alright. Happy you liked it, Deanna! :)
This is eye-opening because this is amazing I just learn a lot of things why.
The question I would ask an IxTJ to determine whether or not they were an Si or Ni dom is I would ask them "So, how was your weekend?" The Si dom is going to go into excruciating detail of the chores or projects he did around the house or something he learned, like my coworker wanted to tell me ALL about how he installed his surround sound system last year and I just finally had to stop him, LOL. The Ni dom is probably going to talk about their pet project and the general progress they've made on that and what realizations they've had or ways they've optimized something. That sort of thing. Or if they did social things, the Ni user will probably be really brief in their description of the event (e.g. "Dad and I went to lunch" - the end) whereas the ISTJ will explain in more detail (e.g. Mom doesn't like to eat salt in her food so I made these cookies but I had to make 2 batches, one with salt and one without salt but I have tried in the past to not tell her I put salt in there but she could tell....etc). It's actually pretty easy for me to tell the two types apart. ISTJs just are so funny and endearing to me.
Yep, INTJ here and when I’m asked I’m pretty vague because I don’t want to waste my time or energy explaining. Lol
So this was my conclusion about the difference between intuitives and sensors at first. But then I heard about the memory and my INTJ friend said he saw video's. And I definitely see fading pics 🤣. Also he seems to have difficulty imagining the future and get all negative about it. When I speak about concepts and philophisies and trying to explore idea's he seem to be more grounded and doesn't really want to get into it to deep. He likes to go towards more mondain topics like what did you do this weekend and complain a lot about his work but without details. I guess more closed in general. So Idk these things seem to be more sensory things? Or just not well developed Ni? Or he is just very introverted and don't want to tell too much about how he truely thinks. That seems to be a skill of both types 😂
usually I will be very brief with other people and I hate when people ask me anything about work, my weekend, vacation, or anything like that BUT if I went out with other people and then talk to my best friend and she asks me how it went, I will probably explain in details something like "can you believe she said blablabla" I can also get into details of what I was drinking if it’s related to something we sometimes talk about, what I didn’t like about the place or what I liked, maybe there were a lot of people smoking so I will complain about that, or I will talk about how I was feeling the whole time I was there, how I couldn’t wait to go home, etc. I'm very close to her and always am eager to tell her some details of whatever happened, while with other people I'm probably just gonna say "yeah it was great".
Still don’t know what type I am though, I get typed as INTJ and ISTJ.
Theory: intp
Backup: si child sharing details in a safe environment, shy and timid with them otherwise.
It's just what came to mind...
INTJ here. Details kill me every time. I would just take snippets of a memory, and I would just add lib the missing points as I find fit to use.
This is fascinating to know, Syed. 🙂
Can totally relate.... when we are discussing things (online chat) this ISTJ friend pours me with tons of contexts and details and you can see how long her dialog usually is...and all her thoughts and how things happened, like she remembered every second of the things she experienced...
And I though I had good memories....
Now this is a very very interesting video for me. I've been typing my crush as an intj for sooooo long (btw im infp), cause he really is quite obsessed with what's in the future and all those really out of the box thinking. And turns out he told me by doing test he is an istj. Since he doesn't know much about mbti and i know that online tests are not that accurate, I figure I have to find out what diverges between istj and intj (since i have a small social circle). Glad to know videos like this exists, valuable information. Thanks!
I love your wrap up Joyce, good closure. And thanks for the Ne complement 🤩
Oh, thank you! :D I try. Y'all Ne people are amazing. 💖
I love this point you made Joyce at 103:30. I'll start using this to help me type people. It's good to know because it's true that people will move off into other functions so it can get confusing to pin down what function they prefer but knowing that where they start is most aligned with their type helps a lot.
Nice save there Joyce at 39:40. :-)
As a not so young INTJ, perhaps I compensated from childhood, about reading literature and history, my IN stuff has a lot of detail which is my way of archiving balance... if that makes sense...memory play an important influence... thanks to all
a question for any of you. I have tested INTJ several times. Each time that I have doubt, I test again. I've considered that its likely to have tendencies of more than one. In this case, I feel some tendencies of ISTJ. Example-ISTJ; when problem solving for a client, I relate to a solution that has worked in my past. One of my Pilar's is verification, measure twice, cut once. This is wisdom through experience which I feel is ISTJ. Example 2-INTJ; Multi tasking only works when you are comfortable enough with one task to focus on a secondary task. When I need to be the person, that I do not believe I can, I play the part like an actor would play the part of a Dr. This allows me more versatility of character, but also confuses my own outcome. So, do any of you get mixed results, consider yourselves more than one, or question the outcome of your quiz?
Yes I do get mixed results and question the results of the tests. I get typed as INTJ and once or twice as ISTJ. Just like what you said, I also have tendencies of ISTJ, and I would also relate to a solution that has worked for me before in a similar experience. I'm very confused and have watched so many videos for INTJ vs ISTJ, still can’t figure out my type, my brain hurts :) sometimes I even relate to INTP for different reasons, but I do. I also can’t differentiate between Fi and Fe, I relate to different aspects of both.
Did you figure out your type?
Lmaooo Michael was like Stuff that FE in your face , happy bday
Michael flexing his Fe like a boss
I love extroverted feeling. Absolutely love it. Cannot get enough of it.
@@Countertype May I ask what is it about "Fe" you love, isn't it a function INTJ's don't value..
Really enjoy the type talk from them! Great job
I had never felt regret before in my life until my Mom passed away when I was in my later forties. Then it sort of hit me hard and still does to this day. It feels sad. I think about the ways in which I could have been a better (more Fe) daughter and wish I'd called her more or watched her special oldie movies with her more. :-(. So yeah, we can definitely feel regret. But I can't think of any other regrets. I suspect it doesn't happen unless it's something big/important. I sometimes feel melancholy as well when I think back to times in my childhood or college/early adult years because it feels like so long ago, like a different life and a time that is lost forever and you can never get that back. It's a weird, surreal feeling, almost like another dimension, so distant, almost like a different person. I've never looked back on middle or high school though. Those memories don't mean much to me. But I do sometimes feel melancholy. Maybe it's just getting older and feeling your mortality more vividly and thinking "is THIS all there is? I thought I'd be further along in my aspirations by now". I think as you get older you realize you are probably not going to reach all those lofty goals you set for yourself and there's a bit of a grieving process for the lost dream. That feels like melancholy and something I never had before. Reacting to what Ryan said, it's okay to grieve for what you've lost though. That's different than ruminating. Just wanted to throw out that important distinction.
Happy birthday Joyce!
Thank you, Giacomo!! 🙂
What do all you guys think? Maybe one way to describe Ni vs. Si is that Ni is more akin to deductive reasoning and Si is more akin to inductive reasoning. The Ni starts with a some objective reasoning and applies that to a specific scenario whereas the Si shows how a specific scenario is a part of a larger concept.
I totally agree with Ryan on the genetic basis for personality. When I was younger I put more stock in nurture over nature (and I STILL do when it comes to our dysfunctional aspects of personality) but I strongly think genetics forms the foundation of our personalty. For example. My Mom and I are both Ni doms/Se inferior (she's INFJ and I'm INTJ) so we relate really well on Ni/Se and LOVE sharing those functions together (or we did when she was alive) but I share ALL my functions with my father, an ENTJ. So I have a TON in common with both of them. My brother, an ISTP shares ALL my Mom's functions, but in many ways he relates better to me and Dad because of being a high-level thinker. My poor ESFJ step-mom has never quite fit in but we love her.
I agree with you!! "When I was younger I put more stock in nurture over nature (and I STILL do when it comes to our dysfunctional aspects of personality)" This is a good point, that the dysfunctional parts of our personality are typically learnt, and therefore, possible to unlearn.
Happy Birthday Joyce 🎉
💖 THANK YOU!!
I'm super late, but happy birthday Joyce! 🥳
Thank you!! 🎉
Speaking about twins,i have got an infp and and an intp friend,who are twins.They have grown under the same roof.From the outside they seem remarkably similar.but once you get to know them well,they are like total opposites.I think they seem similar as they interact with the world with their Ne.But,the dominant functions are completely different.So,sometimes they clash hard. It is interesting,that even identical twins can have such different personalities.
How identical do they look? Could you say one looks more masculine and other feminine, for example? Or is one taller? Or different bone structure otherwise (like face)?
@@PowerRedBullTypology
Yeah.They look pretty similar.One of them is a bit taller than the other.
At least they're not conflictors. Gulp
INTJ 5w4 and I think overindulgence is a thing. My kryptonite is alcohol and sometimes food. With alcohol I let down whatever it is that makes me stoic and I become someone totally different, a very animated in the moment type person that everyone seem to love. Of course I’ve wondered how to get the same buzz while maintaining my control because I feel vulnerable sharing that much with others and it’s awkward to see others again and they think something is wrong because I’m not drinking.
Same dude. I'm learning it's just about managing. Before I thought, "I don't want people to think I'm like this all the time when intoxicated". I'm the complete opposite. Because people can be pushy with fe/fi. Thing is that ignorant effort of trying to tap into being more open can get extreme. Asurapsych just dropped a video on his chanel about this
Around 1:15:00 this is what I was discussing today. Even tho I can get really frustrated by too many details especially if someone is telling a long story without heading towards a point. But I have been adjusting to the sensors (even tho I didn't knew of mbti before) by telling things in less conceptual ways and more details and examples with certain people.. This is for good communication purposes. I hate to loose their focus in coversations. I also do talk a lot from my own standpoint/experiences (like previous was expressed was typical for sensors) and I believe I learned this as an non conflicting way of expressing my feelings and also to be more relatable and emotional vulnerable? I guess it's Fi I am discussing in that kind of way. I also have developed a high TE (as you can see by my pressence here haha). I do think like Joyce was trying out to be more of an other personality, a P type..I tried to be all sorts of types so I could easilier communicate and understand everyones way of thinking for me being always a bit different. So very much FE driven probably 🤣. Still recognise myself almost in every sense in an ENFJ tho.
Anyways this conversation was extremely interesting! So many philosophical thoughts.. And I was so impressed by how we see memories differently! I never heard of that before. A lot to think about 😊. Also it was a very nice and balanced interaction between the participants to follow. Well done everyone ! 👏🤩🙌
Oh Wow Joyce, that intro is sexy, modern! Love it...Watching now. I am INTJ and my bf is ISTJ so this will be interesting
Yes!! Michael did an amazing job with the intro. Hope you enjoy watching, Gygy :)
Happy Birthday Joyce! 😌👌
Thank you @Qlover Inc.! 😃
OMG, that is so true about how ISTJs can be funny. I have a close coworker, a 60-year old, health nut, programmer, who i talk with all the time about politics, current events, work stuff, etc. And every once in a while he just says something so funny that I laugh out loud. He KNOWS he's being funny too which makes it even funnier. Like today, I live on Galveston Island about 3 blocks from the beach, directly behind a popular burger joint on the Seawall (Seawall is our main blvd along the beach) named "The Spot" and there is a hurricane (Delta) headed our direction right now although it's going to make landfall to our west so we will get very little wind or rain. He lives on the mainland so has a bit of distance from any passing storms.
As he was leaving work today, he said in a playful way "Be careful of the hurricane!" and I said "oh, it's no big deal. It's gonna make landfall no further west than High Island" (he knows this of course). And he replied back "No! I heard it's going to jump over to hit that one little area right behind The Spot just off Seawall and then jump back over to Louisiana! You better hunker down!" I just laughed because it was SO SILLY! It was the LAST thing you'd expect anyone to say. His humor is very similar to the way Laura described it. Yes, I LOVE Ne, especially from the ENFPs and INFPs but also from the ISTJs (it's different between them)! It's probably my favorite function to interact with as well (I agree with Chris on this) or it's right up there with Te. It's always so funny because he really enjoys his own humor too. LOL Btw, the wind is picking up and it feels SO GOOD outside right now. I love hearing the fronds of my palm trees rustling in the wind just outside my windows.
1:07 the question, Nature vs Nurture, I'd say it's a combination. Most people are products of their environment and very much act as if they were raised. Then you have people like me who see things from our own as well as other's experiences, who are a product of self-reflection. I am very different from my siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. I do think this is a valuable area for research.
I think nature vs nurture is directly related to IQ.
Love your channel. All the talking it out back and forth really helps my understanding of type. I think you do a great job as a moderator. Super well thought out questions. Just a suggestion, especially since I am new to type and don’t always have each typed stack readily in my mind, maybe you could add in the notes what the function stack is in general for each type you are interviewing or if available if you could add the specific stacks for each individual if they are available. I know some are jumpers so that may play into some of the cross talk as well. Hope that helps. Great job Joyce!❤️
Thank you, Valerie!! Starting with the next video, I'll add notes at the end of the description section for you. :)
On the subject of breaking out of your type, I think that's a cool idea to push yourself to use other functions the way another type would so you grow as a person. So as an INTJ, it would be interesting to try to be like an INFJ or ESFJ (which I can do pretty well for short bursts since my Stepmom is an ESFJ). I definitely think I'm pretty good at acting as different types for short periods of time. While I think we could all do it for short bursts of time, my experience has been that it becomes energetically draining and unhealthy the longer it continues so I would not want to try to become another type in the literal sense. Maybe that stems from the fact that I'm an Fi user and I believe we are all unique and that is our gift to the world and we are at our best when we embrace that.
My experience is that our cognitive functions are our default state so they are the most effortless and the further we push against that to force ourselves into a less natural state, the more internal resistance we will feel. For me, it feels like a rubberband being stretch further and further with the resistance growing more and more until it eventually snaps. For example, as an Ni dom, the longer I am forced to use Fe or Se in any one sitting/time frame, the more I feel like I am coming apart at the seems until I will eventually want to scream or I will start to be angry and resentful that I'm being forced out of my natural state, like I'm being tortured and need to release the pain/tension. Granted, it would take a LONG time for that to happen and frankly, my mind is going to dissociate away from the Fe or Se behavior at some point automatically and I'll zone out as a self-preservation and I will lose the ability to force myself to continue behaving with constant Fe or Se in those moments.
I once dated a woman who I think was probably an ISFJ. She was an accountant and we actually didn't share that much in common and didn't date for long but once at dinner, she snapped her fingers in front of my face and said "hey, what are you thinking?" Turns out I had stopped with my fork mid-way to my mouth and started zoning out and staring off into space as I went into my mind. I had not heard what she had just said. It was quick so I didn't miss much but my brain just needed an escape in that moment. I caught myself doing it other times after that and noticed that it would happen when I was on sensory overload. My brain would just check out. It's different than getting lost in your thoughts. It's literally sort of like you are shutting down. Like you are powering down to a stillness in your mind.
There have been times in my life, due to having 3 jobs (7 days a week) for example, where I was in constant contact with people or the public, that I started having anxiety and feeling very down, not depressed but starting to feel hopeless about my life, like all I would ever do was work to barely get by? It was partly due to financial struggles (which I'm past now, yea!) but also due to the lack of time I had to spend on my Ni. My Ni is my happy place and it felt like that had been taken away from me and it felt soul-crushing. I don't believe it's healthy to not be able to exercise your dominant function for long stretches like that. Not only are you depriving yourself of your natural state of joy but you are depriving the world of your greatest gifts. We all NEED each other to enjoy and exercise our dominant functions. We just all need to remember to have the discipline to wrangle our inferior tidal waves too so we have much needed balance in our lives.
"My Ni is my happy place and it felt like that had been taken away from me and it felt soul-crushing. I don't believe it's healthy to not be able to exercise your dominant function for long stretches like that. Not only are you depriving yourself of your natural state of joy but you are depriving the world of your greatest gifts. We all NEED each other to enjoy and exercise our dominant functions." 💯💯💯 couldn't agree more.
im not sure if im an istj or intj. i lean towards istj and have gotten both istj and intj on tests. im not really a detail oriented person and prefer to know the big picture rather than the steps involved. intj and istjs are so similar
Great intro Joyce
I used to be addicted to meth too. I’m totally unsure if that’s due to inferior se or not. My grandpa is addicted to gambling. I always typed him as an istp. What an interesting possibility if he’s actually an istj I pegged incorrectly.
Just had a very important insight - I really value nostalgic people because they make me feel safe and connected and in case I start a relationship again I will watch out for that trait. I think it's a value axis that gets overlooked usually. Never stumbled upon it and just realized it myself. (ENFP)
I think nostalgia is the reason my strongest and longest friendship with my ISFJ friend is still alive after living far apart from one another for longer periods of time. We cherish the people and events from the past and I know she won't forget me when one of us moves to another city. That brings so much comfort and ease to me. I also think hard times in marriages can more likely be overcome with a nostalic person. A nostalic person might as well not just cut you out of it's life just like that or forever.
I am an INTJ according to the test but I always thought that my coldness, introversion and standoffishness was the result of upbringing. Interesting to know.
Hi Joyce! I enjoyed most of the typology videos. When Michael talked about his past addiction, I could relate. But when he mentioned how INTJs seem confident in controlling their issues and getting out of addiction, As an Infj, Joyce. I wondered if INFJs feel or think the same way?
Happy birthday Joyce! I love your channel--it has helped me understand myself and be more understanding of others.
I'm so glad! That's all I could ever ask for. Thank you, Gin-Gin.
I look forward to this one. Thank you Joice
Wonderful! I am hoping you enjoyed the premiere, Mario.
AssuraPsych…wanted to hear your thoughts on possibilities to grow in opposite functions etc…Like Joyce, I desire to see if one can cross the axis and how far or long can you stay in a new pattern of perceiving & judging etc…if that rewired or just burns you out….
I’ve got to think on this more but it’s got me on the hook! 🤔
At 43:25, when Chris is talking about just doing the thing (eating the same thing) in order to accomplish the goal of weight loss, and Michael does the same thing, I wonder if this is a difference between regular INTJs and jumpers. I am totally not like that. I think I was in the past but now I HAVE to enjoy what I'm doing. My Dad is an ENTJ and he eats the same thing all the time because it accomplishes his goal. But I have to satiate my Fi and Se. It feels very childish but it doesn't matter. I just usually can't put Te over Fi. No matter how hard I try, my desire is going to win out, usually. I want what I want and no amount of Te is going to get in the way of that usually, unless it's really important perhaps to choose the Te over Fi for some reason. Fortunately, my desire usually aligns with my goals so it all works out. But I put a high value of Fi and Se experiences and pleasure. Honestly, that could also have just come with age. At this point in my life I'm like, life is too damn short and I intend to enjoy every minute. But my ENTJ Dad who is obviously much older even is so much more like Chris and Michael so I do think it's probably a Te over Fi thing.
I am very focused on the ends too though (relating to what Joyce pointed out). It's just that I give the pleasure/desire more weight now. So I aim to have both, the whole package, the ends and the pleasure along the way. In other words, I've learned that enjoying the journey along the way to the goal is critical. Joyce, this might actually be an interesting video topic some time, to look at the differences between different ages within a specific type. We know that the functions evolve as we age so it would be interesting to analyze across that perspective as well.
ISTJs are blowing my mind right now. The mbti community focuses so much of N types we don't have the best collective understanding of what Si even is. This was so insightful.
I'm an enfp. My mother is intj and father is istj. My father was a perfect fit for me. A very comforting wholesome relationship. Hope I'll settle with one some day. Mind you, he was not only an istj, but a very righteous selfless one who was of service to everyone. He tragically passed away very suddenly few months ago, and losing him was my biggest fear in life. Rant over. Lol
Ni doesn't necessarily look like or actively for something, it surfaces on its own when triggered by an association and connects pieces.
Very well said. Despite being an Ni dominant type I still find it hard to wrap my head around the function, so really appreciate insight into it.
That notion that these examples of those types get overwhelmed by social situations and attribute it to 4th slot Ne or Se seems to me like misidentifying problems with the polr as the inferior function. The real problem is they feel insecure about their abilities to manage themselves in the external emotional atmosphere but instead think it’s an aversion to thinking about many different stimuli at once.
INTJ: I don't eat out a lot, because I work as a cook. So when I do eat out if I get something that isn't satisfactory, I try to .... fix it, if I can't get it fixed I probably will just not come back. I don't make a fuss, I just want food that tastes good. I went to a steak house about two years ago, and ordered their barbeque brisket sandwich. Note: I live in Texas. The sandwich came out BLAND like they sat the salt shaker next to the meat but never used it. So I asked for a side of Jalapenos and some extra sauce. I got the sauce but instead of the pre-sliced pickled Jalapenos I was expecting I got a whole, raw unprocessed jalapeno pepper..... I wasn't impressed and haven't been back. It might seem petty, but this was steak house, in Texas, that didn't season their meat.
How do you like being a Cook? Doesn't it over stress you?
@@brain0nfire I like a challenge, most days. I enjoy the pace, and the way it forces me to optimize on the run. It makes great use of my ability to intake the macro and process that aspect, but also requires me to get the details right so it also has forced me to grow in that area. But probably the most infuriating aspect is dealing with the human element. Humans make mistakes and when a server makes a mistake it jams a wrench into my flow state which invariable gets me worked up. Especially when they're rude and unapologetic.
Overall I wouldn't recommend it for an INTJ. There are careers out there that better cater to INTJ preferences and better leverage INTJ skills. It is also very draining socially depending on what type of restaurant, so for type 5's that have low social energy it easily depletes their social battery for the day, and then they need to recharge. So if you don't already have a social life, a foodservice job will probably not help in that area.
OMG, that was so cute Joyce "That is 10 thousand % true!" LOL My INFJ mom used to always say "That's a thousand % true" Or "I agree with that ONE THOUSAND PERCENT!" She'd be so excited when she said that, so very adorable! LOL and I'd be like "Mom, that's IMPOSSIBLE! You can't have more than 100% of a per cent be true because by definition, it's defining what proportion something is out of 100 (cent = 100 like century = 100 years, etc.).
@Michael, like your INFP friend, this INFP here is a super nostalgic person. I could see Fi + Si being the reason why? If so, I'm curious, is there any type that's as nostalgic as us, or are we second to none?
In theory it could be ISTJ? Same two functions also in the 1st and 3rs slot, but just in a different order?
I think INFP is the type most likely to be nostalgic.
In the video, Ryan mentioned how he isn't particularly nostalgic and that Si as a dominant function is more neutral and analytical about its memories.
Lol the way they all listen SO intently to each other. That must be their secondary Te/tertiary Fi (and 7th Fe). Great discussion!
Thank you, Natalie!! :)
Looking forward to it
Yay!
So, starting at 19:00 is Ryan basically saying he has a photographic or a videographic memory? That's what it sounds like.
Michael: "You should see me in a dance club".
Me: You won't see me in a dance club.
😂
Regarding the nature vs nurture discussion, another anecdote supporting that is a person's political leanings. Our entire family is left leaning. I'm a Bernie girl but both parents and step-parents are more liberal, probably more centrist Democrats than conservative except for my step-dad who leans a tiny bit more conservative but definitely socially liberal. And except for my step-Dad, we all despise Trump except my brother who LOVES Trump. We joke that we don't know WHERE that comes from. I personally attribute that to his function stack. He's an ISTP and I think maybe he has a difficult time connecting the relationships between some of the behaviors and values (or lack thereof) of Trump that the rest of us can so easily discern.
Don't tell an ISTJ to go against their gut instinct ("not going to do because of that perception") this is what gets ISTJs into workplace hazards, my ISTP father is very strict that ISTJs don't listen to people to try to go against their gut in a workplace environment, I think what he is trying to say is we are going to do that, but low Ni, means we don't actually choose what we are avoiding, its just Si-instinct
INTJs seem to like those square glasses
I've been recently reading and hearing that sometimes people see themselves as being dominant in one personality type function when they are really dominant in an opposite function and the one they think is their dominant function might actually be their inferior function that they are subconsciously focusing on because they are trying to improve it. Those discussions are suggesting that even though I've always tested out as an INTJ in tests, I might actually be Si dominant rather than Ni dominant. Like maybe I'm an ISTJ rather than an INTJ.
I've found videos that explain how people can get the two types mixed up that are interesting. Videos like this one though really remind me of why I've always tested as INTJ. The more I listen to Laura and Ryan, the more I realize that I don't actually behave that way. I'm really more like Michael and Chris.
A good example of this is that when I really think about it, my memories of the past are never as concrete and detailed than what Laura and Ryan are saying. Things like songs, meals etc. don't trigger specific, detailed memories, but rather trigger familiar feelings and impressions that I've felt before in a previous time that I heard that song or ate that dish. Like Michael and Chris say, I'm more likely to imagine things that may or may not have ever happened. In fact, when I do try to remember some event in the past with any degree of detail, I'll find that my memory of the event is vastly different than another person's memory of the same event. It's like my imagination gets all jumbled up with reality to the point that when I try to recall past events, fantasy and reality blur together until I can't tell them apart. The past for me is like trying to remember a dream I had last night.
I, like Michael, sometimes realize that I've been spending a long time fantasizing, daydreaming what it might be like to be a different person. Playing out a scenario in which I'm maybe doing a different career than what I'm actually doing. Unless I'm hyper focused on accomplishing a task in order to achieve a goal, I'm pretty much living in my imagination while the reality around me can actually feel less real than what's in my mind.
There's a lot of confusion about all of this for me, especially these days because these days, I've developed health problems that are degrading my ability to remember or recall things even more than I used to be. I'm physically exhausted all the time due to insomnia, muscle aches, intense itch all over, depression, etc. so it's so difficult to focus on long-term goals and to further a career now. I'm also quite likely to be autistic based on what I've learned from friends who work in the field and conversations I've had with them in which they've told me that based on observing me over the years they've known me that I do exhibit most of the symptoms of high functioning autism.
So, between physical health problems that I have now and the neurodivergent nature of my mind, I can't help but wonder if those aren't clouding or masking what my true personality type would be without them.
I relate so much to what you said that a song/meal would rather trigger familiar feelings and impressions that you’ve felt before in a previous time, it’s the feelings I used to have that kind of "bring me back in time" but it’s not a detailed memory? Or it can also remind me of a period of time I used to listen to that song, like an overall impression of that period that lasted a few weeks or months maybe. There are songs I still can’t listen to cause they remind me of a bad period of my life. And I also hate listening to songs I’ve listen to in the past in general, I like finding new songs, cause I don’t like how I have feelings attached to most songs I’ve listened to, now I'm a new person I don’t like feeling those old feelings 😅
But I confuse memories that are detailed with those that are more vague. Sometimes I think my memories are detailed, but maybe they aren’t? How can I know that for sure, cause sometimes yes, I can think of a few details when describing a place I've been, whatever caught my eye, but it’s not an actual vivid image I see where I can clearly see all the details, it’s vague with a few details here and there that I don’t clearly see but I remember what color they were maybe or what shape, but it’s blurry and hard to remember exactly, like a smudged image. Do Si dominants actually see the details in their memories clearly? Are those memories very vivid/precise? I don’t get that part.
The difference between INTJ and ISTJ is confusing to me too and I relate so much to everything you said. I get typed mostly as INTJ and once or twice as ISTJ. But I would also say I think I'm closer to ISTJ. Usually when talking to people and they tell me something, I instantly think of a similar experience cause I don’t know what else to reply so this is how I can show them I understand what they are going through, or tell them what helped me in a similar situation. This to me sounds very much like ISTJ.
Did you figure out your type?
I think that I have figured it out. What I've figured out is that I will never completely fit any of the MBTI type descriptions because they were designed to describe neurotypical people. I have been taking tests and evaluations with my wife's coworkers who are special education teachers and It turns out that I have high functioning autism. This explains a lot. All of my life, I have never fit in, even amongst other nerds, really. I realized from an early age that I thought quite differently from other people I knew.
Since MBTI, Enneagram and other personality theories were not designed with autism in mind, it really is possible that I won't be able to quite fit any of their categories. Unless one or more of these personality type research teams decides to develop categories for neurodivergent people, none of the types will quite fit me.
I love music too. I do enjoy listening to new music and seeing new shows, but I don't mind hearing and seeing things over and over again. I have shelves full of favorite albums (on several different formats), movies and books - all of which I've listened to, watched or read multiple times since I got them. I have a set of especially favorite albums which I listen to on a just about weekly basis. Also favorite movies and books that I rewatch or reread at least once a year. There's something cozy and a little comforting, I suppose, about familiar things. It's probably also why I keep my collection of favorite childhood toys and games. Like favorite books, movies, songs etc. these toys and other movie or TV show memorabilia remind me of the people who gave them to me years ago, or who I was with who cared about me when I first heard the song or saw the show. I think that I repress most of my bad memories and even when I do think of them, I tend to push them out if my mind by replacing them with happy memories.
I don't show my emotions on the outside unless I'm having a meltdown and can't help it. I try to be cold and logical when I'm trying to accomplish something I consider important, but inside and in unguarded moments when I'm alone, I can be pretty goofy and emotional. @@ema-e7u
@@enfieldjohn101 Wow, I also always have been telling my friends and my sister that I probably have some kind of autism, they kinda laugh at me but I'm being serious and they don’t get it. This could explain why I can’t type myself after so long. Are there any tests you would recommend that I take to see if I actually do have autism?
I also relate to what you said about listening to favorite albums or watching favorite movies/tv shows :) when I said I don’t want to listen to old songs I meant songs that bring bad emotions I don’t want to feel anymore. But there are songs and movies and tv shows that are very comforting to me and bring back good feelings.
"There's something cozy and a little comforting, I suppose, about familiar things." 100% relate to this :)
Unfortunately, you can't really take any reliable self-tests for autism because it is a condition of thinking and reacting differently than neurotypical people do, especially in social situations, so you have to be observed and evaluated by other people who are trained and experienced in doing so. There might be some psychologists or analysts who could attempt to evaluate you based on recorded videos or live video, but the trick would be getting that footage without you being too aware that you are being filmed. People can't help but act differently when they are focusing on the fact that they are on camera.
There are little online quizzes, but its even harder, nay impossible, to evaluate your own behavior in social situations when it comes to potential autism than it is to evaluate your own personality. People mistype themselves frequently with MBTI, Enneagram etc., but they always misevaluate themselves when it comes to neurodivergence. @@ema-e7u
41:59 - I can totally relate,
although now I'm married,
but I still order the exact same food every single day from the exact same restaurants for about 7 years now.
Before that though,
I tried many different foods, and I tried to find (to me) the most delicious foods in every restaurant,
so now I now that if I want to eat fried pork, than I get it from the North-Rain Restaurant,
but if I want to eat fried chicken, than I get it from the restaurant that's in front of the Police Station.
The experimentation part took some time,
but in the long run, it turned out to be the most efficient way to get the food I like and there will be never a disappointment in taste,
because these are small restaurants run by 1 families and it's super rare when they get new cook, so it always tastes the same every time.
(PS. "1 families?" - you might ask. I'm not native English speaker and I don't know how to say this correctly, but.. Come on! You know what I mean :) )
The weird part is that this is the typical steotype for the ISTJ and it was said by an INTJ. They would have different motivations. Michael does it out of the motivation to stay in his mind and be productive and therefor not taking good care of his fysical needs. An ISTJ seems to be more Conservative and relies on what he experienced before. So If it's good never change a winning team.
Yeah, then I have the same motivation as Michael, I never really want to eat, but I must eat, therefore if I must eat then I better make it as streamlined as I can. I have 20 pairs of exact same looking shirts in my wardrobe, because I don't allow myself to waste my brainpower to making annoying decisions like "Hmm, what clothes should I wear today?" If I would do that, I would have to start my day by wasting brainpower for choosing clothes, choosing food etc. It's a big deal, and you might never think that if you never try.
Mothers intj and fathers istj. Both kids enfp 😁
Cool I’m an Enfp too
Dude might be on to something on that gambling theory for the INTJ brain. That makes sense kind of... I love gambling, but I only do to gamble when I have the perception that I have an edge. I don't actually need an edge to partake, but I just have to know that it's possible to have edge.
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I’ll come back when there are more comments
I just experienced watching Chris Pratt acting as a soldier in the Terminal List -perhaps aiming to come across more XSTJ?! Or XSTP!?? …he kept leaking out ENFP 😂 I was distracted but entertained by that!
I, as an INTJ, find ISTJs a bit frustrating. My ex-brother-in-law was an ISTJ and he struck as having a linear, short-range viewpoint. It was black and white thinking vs. big picture thinking with a tolerance of nuance. He was a political conservative and I a progressive. He understood politics on a superficial level and parroted talking points, but I was capable of and wanted to dig deep. He stopped trying to argue politics with me as I'd paint him into a corner pretty quickly.
Excellent video!
Glad you liked it, John!
Michael's single .. not for much longer I'm sure..
Great video.
❤
Thanks @Pug Ninja! I'm sure someone has their eyes on Michael, he's great. 🙂
Have you heard of aphantasia? I would love to know if there was a correlation between that and types.