Elegoo Mars 4 Ultra Review and The CURSE of ACF
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2023
- Buy the Elegoo Mars 4 Ulltra here: shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=235105...
Buy the Elegoo Mars 4 Here: shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=235104...
All Mars 4 Reviews
• Elegoo Mars 4 9k Revie...
• Elegoo Mars 4 Ultra Re...
• Elegoo Mars 4 Vs Mars ...
• Elegoo Mars 4 DLP Revi...
• Elegoo Mars 4 Max Revi...
Full Playlist - • Elegoo Mars 4
Well, this is impressive, the first consumer printer with 18-micron pixels, but how well does that pixel size translate into sharp prints? Well unfortunately it doesn't. Elegoo has created a printer that probably solves the voxel and layer line issue, then introduced another one altogether - though it's an easy fix...
J3DTech video testing ACF - • Why do 12k Printers co...
Tomlov Video Microscope: amzn.to/43BfdLO
Get any printer working easily with the Photonsters XP Range Finder - www.thingiverse.com/thing:602... (watch my video for full instructions • How to Print Perfect M... )
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @fauxhammer
Buy WARGAMER - The best Resin for Miniatures yesthats3dprinted.com/pages/w...
3D Printer Cleaning Mat: geni.us/3DPrinterCleaningMat
This Video is part of our series looking for the Best 3D printer for Miniatures; www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/the...
Special thanks to the following Creators who provided models
Rider of Despair - Creature Caster - www.myminifactory.com/users/C...
Dredge Marines - Mezgike - mezgike.com/
One Page Rules - www.onepagerules.com/
Wolverine - Drafnir Studios - cgtrader.sjv.io/3eJyqv
Artis Opus FauxHammer Essentials Set: store.artis-opus.com/products...
FauxHammer Patreon - / fauxhammerblog
FauxHammer Facebook Group - / painthub
FauxHammer 3D Printing Group - / 3dprintedminiatures
FauxHammer Discord - / discord
Best Airbrush For Miniatures: www.fauxhammer.com/top-10/bes...
Beginner Airbrush: www.fauxhammer.com/featured/b...
Affiliate Links to support us.
Element Games - elementgames.co.uk/wargames-a...
Wayland Games - affiliates.waylandgames.co.uk...
Forbidden Planet: forbiddenplanet.com/catalog/?...
Amazon - www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Warhamme...
Website: www.fauxhammer.com/
Facebook: / fauxhammerblog
Twitter: / fauxhammerblog
Instagram: / fauxhammerblog
Pinterest: www.pinterest.co.uk/fauxhammer/
Video Editing by VidPros: app.vidpros.io/r/J50Z26
00:00 - Intro - บันเทิง
Buy the Elegoo Mars 4 Ulltra here: shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=2351051&u=3060349&m=104244&urllink=&afftrack=
Buy the Elegoo Mars 4 Here: shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=2351049&u=3060349&m=104244&urllink=&afftrack=
Buy WARGAMER - The best Resin for Miniatures yesthats3dprinted.com/pages/wargamer?ref=FauxHammer
Tomlov Video Microscope: amzn.to/43BfdLO
Get any printer working easily with the Photonsters XP Range Finder - www.thingiverse.com/thing:6023738 (watch my video for full instructions th-cam.com/video/Gm0-z971tgY/w-d-xo.html)
Join this channel to get access to perks:
th-cam.com/channels/_9Jsf3SP8aMJgn0xv5jHjA.htmljoin
man i hope it's a good review and you compare against sonic 8k s..
Where can I find the J3D Tech video link?
Hey Ross, can you please answer the question that bugs me since the release of Saturn 3 - does Elegoo's new build plates fit their previous models?) Specifically - the new Saturn 3 plate on Saturn 2
I have a different take on ACF from a business standpoint. I will (and do) sacrifice a SMALL amount of detail for mass gains in print speed and consistency. We have purchased two M5S, and equipped our Linant Base Pros with ACF. We saw a 50% increase in speeds on the linants along with lowering failure rates into the low single digit range. The M5S have also done great, but have a glaring flaw that many are not speaking on that also is an issue with Elegoo printers (saturn 2 for us) is a "squish" in base layers requiring you to stretch 1-2% in the Z direction. While able to accommodate around this, its a paint and leads to lower dimensional accuracy.
Overall as a business that makes functional parts for production, ACF has been AMAZING. But I can concede that us doing functional prints vs photo realistic prints skews my view point, and from a "artistic" standpoint this maybe a no go. But, I would love to see you dig in to this issue with "squishing" in base layers that is affecting now multiple brands. Keep up the great work and content!
Interesting perspective, I have been considering getting a resin printer in addition to my bambulab for business purposes. Though I was not aware that you could make functional parts on resin printers. Although I did use them up to 15 years ago (commercial grade SLA) working as an Industrial Designer, most prints were used to create tooling for small production runs or prototypes. My question is, what kind of functional parts are you actually able to make with resin now?
@@dwintster we make lots of smaller parts, capacitor casings, wire organizers, speaker adapter rings and housings. The "basic" abs like resins can be a bit brittle for functional parts requirements depending, but look into a company called "3D Materials" and they have lines of affordable engineering resins, the PP and PCS lines make great resins for stuff that needs some flexibility and impact resistance. They have high heat (400f+), ceramic like, silicon like and a few others.
Big things getting to know what resins go in what application.
@tyoung319 That's great , it has really progressed a lot. Thanks a lot for the info. I will check them out.
I don't own a Resin printer yet but in my eyes I prefer sharpness and detail over speed. As for plate size I have already became accustomed to a Ender 3 print area so I would rather have the 220 x 220 x 250 mm or a tad bit larger than to go to a smaller print area. Thanks Ross for your time and work.
Yeah I admit, it is hard for me to go back to these small units now
Great review.
Thanks for the warning about the ACF.
I've never had the build plate loosen on my Mars 2 Pro, but that doesn't mean you're 'wrong' about the 4-screw system the higher-end units use either. I do LOVE they added the spring-loaded system in the Mars 4 though - that's a great upgrade.
THANK YOU for this video! I've been passing up upgrading till now because my M2P still gives me such amazing prints, but the new units with their super-high rez and massive build areas are finally weakening my resolve. This was amazingly helpful - Liked and Subscribed! :D
Oh that;s sich a perfect point. yeah the Mars 2 is still solid even now!, in fact I'm about to drop a review of a 2k printer about that size and you know what. prints are fine.
So I'm currently in the market for my first SLA printer (had FDM printers for over 6 years now). My use case is minis but also larger things like train tracks for my childs duplo train or new parts for my childs marble track. That's why I think the, at least now, pretty common size of roughly 200x200x123 mm would be perfect for me (of course if it's a little larger that's also fine). I'd also like the printer to be as hassle free as possible. The Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8k is a little too expensive for my taste so right now I'm looking at the M5, M5s, Saturn 3 and Saturn 3 Ultra. Would you say that that's the correct models to look at or am I missing one that I shouldn't miss? And which one would you recommend? Hope this question is not too loaded! Thanks for your amazing videos, I only discovered your channel a few days ago and your videos are really top notch!
Excellent video Ross! My ideal printer is the Wifi and 4 Screws Leveling System from the Ultras - but installed with NFEP films.
Yes! Thats what I think I will be doing also.
Yep. I’m 100% with you on that.
Yep, convenience is superior to speed or even super sharp detail. Choosing now, I would go with the anycubics m5s simply for the autoleveling and error detection
I'm so glad you could finally review this unit. This prevented me from huuuuge buyers remorse.
I've seen the ACF issue brought up in one of Vogman's reviews, and it was the main reason I didn't preorder this unit.
The lack of a screen protector is also a deal breaker (note that the Elegoo website mentions a 9H hardness tempered glass protector included in the specs, which clearly isnt there on your unit)
Keep up the good work!
thanks a Ton, yeah VOG did great by replacing the ACF and showing what it can do. I'll do the same with my Mars 4.
yeah i found out about the screen protector from commentors, i never got one.
Thank you for such a great review. This is my first resin printer. I've watched a few videos to help me decide on what I wanted to buy, but ultimately, the popularity and a good sale is what determined my purchase of the Mars 4 Ultra. I just got it 3 days ago and really wish I had seen this video first. However, I think I'll like those added features. With a Wi-Fi FDM sitting beside my Mars 4 Ultra, it will be nice to keep everything in a separate area dedicated to printing.
Hopefully there are non ACF options available now for this (This is my first time learning about ACF). I see this video is 9 months old so I will take a look at your channel to see if you've answered my question!
Thanks again! Subscribed!
I agree with your priorities of quality over speed, and I think speed is still a big area of opportunity for printers going forward. I'd even argue it's going to be the next big differentiator as resin printers evolve. Like Apple learned with their retina display research, there's an upper limit where increasing resolution no longer matters. Fighting over microns is reaching the point of diminishing returns.
All that being said, once they start to focus on speed they can't lose the ground they've gained on detail. Looks like these new release sheets are doing exactly that.
This is quite true, because unless you are making microelectronic parts where you need precision delineated by the millionths, there is only so much practical use 99.9999999% of users will want or need. This is why specialty tooling is so expensive, in order to cater to that 0.0000001% of the population.
Once we reach the point where resolution lines are invisible to the naked eye, or after a model has been primed and painted, then thats where this race should end.
Do you know if that Mars 4 Ultra build plate fits on other Mars 4 printers? I was curious if you could buy that part and just pop it on the regular Mars 4 or DLP. I much prefer the 4 bolt design.
I thank you for the review. I will be printing highly detailed jewelry ,can I should change the film to nfep? What are your thoughts.
They should just include an extra resin tray that has normal FEP, and one for fast printing with the blurry stuff. Then you can store the fast resin in one, and higher quality resin in the other... Or make it an option when you buy it so people who want fast printing can get the one they want, or vice versa.
Yeah I agree, probe ly not a whole tray because that would up the price quite a bit, but at least a choice of PFA in the box
That sounds too logical.
That's exactly why I buy an extra resin tank with normal FEP with my Saturn 3 Ultra. When I want to print fast with no extra detail like big base I took ACF and for the small detail I took the normal FEP. I think it is good to have a choice
@@miklay1527 Very Smart Decision!
What settings do you change and how much, when you switch from
ACF to PFA?
I really liked your review on the Photon Mono X 6ks, it was way more informative than AC's provided material or videos. That one brought me to your channel and I really appriciate your honest and realistic reviews as I keep watching.
You are spot on about Bambu's success, it really wasn't until my P1P that I could enjoy learning modeling and other aspects of tinkering more and not spending so much energy keeping my bed slinger alive. I don't really care about the speeds, the quality and also the follow up from Bambu in makeing their stuff better keeps me loyal to them... for now.
Thanks for the vids, cheers.
Thanks, brands don’t tend to explain much of their own products or how they work.
ACF is not only faster, but it also reduces the failure of printing significantly because it sticks much less to the FEP. Many of the 3D groups I am participating in are switching from FEP/NFEP to ACF, even on regular printers
Interesting. I've never had problems with my FEP, but I'm printing on 2k printers (about to upgrade soon). Is that such a problem for you that you're looking to make a change? Even though it compromises print quality? Is this because you do a lot of printing for commercial reasons? Genuinely curious as to what user persona that appeals to. (I hope this comes across as a respectful question... I mean it entirely respectfully.)
Ugh. So ACF is for newbs that can't be bothered to choose correct settings and adjust prints so they don't have excessive cross-sections (suction)?
@@mr_disintegrator i heard this many times also when comparing ABS to PLA , i absolutely disagree with you
@@user-it7kg3pm4q also the lifting speed can be 3X and have no failure, people are having good reviews about ACF
@@mr_disintegrator I wouldn't use it because of the hatching effect, but less peel force is objectively a good thing. It ultimately means it allows smaller supports to be used and by extension less clean up.
Supports are the hardest part of resin printing, reducing the barrier to entry isn't a bad thing.
hey do you have some of the exposure times that you used with this new printers as a starting point that we can use to dial in the resins?
I preordered the printer and want to have PFA films ready to replace the ACF on day 1. What is the tank size (not build area)? TIA!
I like the option of the new film, as i actually got some for my larger printer to have it run my terrain and will do small miniatures on the classic films in my smaller printers for precision. Its a great option, i just wish it was more clear to the customer what its good for.
Went through the comments to see if anyone mentioned it, but you might want to reach out to Elegoo as they seem to have sent you a defective printer, it may also have been missing from early review models sent out to content creators because although Uncle Jessie mentioned it, he didn't show it, but there is meant to be a tempered glass screen protector for the lcd, from the description on their website "The mono LCD is protected by a 9H hardness tempered glass, ensuring it withstands daily wear and tear while maintaining optimal performance." a description absent from the standard mars 4, which was a huge part of why i've been looking to get this printer. If you reach out to them about the lack of screen protector, id love to hear about it, because this is very confusing to me that theres nothing between the polarizer and the vat, and that not being the description on the website. Thanks for the videos, they are always informative, just left scratching my head on this one.
thanks for another good review! the more i watch, the more i really think im going to save up, and go right for a DLP model
Glad I could help!
the prints with the wargamer resin look really great. but if the resin is only available in the UK, unfortunately that doesn't help the rest of the world
We’ll bring it out to more territories ASAP
At £50 (63.53 USD) per kg it doesn't really help the UK.
@@MrSlabberdank ouch. :D
😅
FIFTY QUID A BOTTLE
I just went, I might try that… even though I have 4 bottles sat next to my printer… but damn, £50. How good IS it? Has anyone here tried?
im looking for a cheap printer wich is fast... this one looks good but ofr example if i print a round ball will it be smooth at the fastest speed?
You got it right. Quality is why I'm looking at rising. But like the DLP as the screen replacement concerns me as I've watched videos about how things go wrong. Thanks for your heads up on this one.😮😊😊😊😊
It’s almost like I know the 3D printing audience better than the blood manufacturers!
Do people only use these for making models and stuff (Gaming/Warhammer)? I'm interested in making casing for hardware (Stuff like Gameboys, Calculators, etc.) but I'm not sure where to start. Thanks!
i think the fast resin printer's weapons are the fast & torquey z-axis motor and ACF sheet. if then it can better and rather faster printing with ordinal FEP and some parameter tuning with this one, so we get happy time a while. is this right?
yeah pretty much, I think there is a minimum lift speed on this though., but i can't work out what it is. the settings allow you to enter whatever you want, but the printer will still go as fast as it's slowest speed will allow.
@fauxhammer I keep seeing you mention a crazy new printer (hopefully not just the athena) that checks all the boxes coming in a few weeks. Im trying to decide between the uniformation gk2 and the Mars 4 ultra without ACF. Should I just wait two weeks?
Hi, I contacted Elegoo because I also had doubts about the tempered glass, they replied that it is pre-installed, and that it can be removed. Could it be that it is directly above the LCD screen?
Great video, I was all in for the new Saturn 4 Ultra, but with this video you just opened my eyes
Ultra is awesome, please wait for my review in a week
@@FauxHammer thanks, I'm really waiting to see what you have to say on ACF, VOGMAN mentioned nothing about it, must've improved I guess.
Thankbyoubfor this review it has given me some insight. Also, in your video, where did you find those underwater themed deathguard? Never mind had to read description a second time.
Glad you found them and I hope Mezgike got another sale from you. He's an incredible creator.
Have you come to any conclusions, or closer to any on why the different between the new Saturn with ACF and this Mars 4 Ultra with ACF? Mine gets here tomorrow, and in part wondering if I should get ready to order a more clear film for it.
Cant find ""Elegoo Mars 4 Ultra PFA Film "can someone Help me Please...
That is a shame these ship with the cloudy FEP. At least it can be replaced but still a nuisance. I agree with quality over speed 100%. I would love to try the Wargamer resin but live in the US. I just picked up a Saturn 2 8k printer and was thinking about sticking to the phrozen 4k resin that I use in the Mars Pro 3. I am nervous about the 8k being too brittle based on your review and others. Whats your take on this for printing minis? 4k resin in an 8k printer?
Well 4k and 8k on resins are just marketing terms. It's just means higher detail, but normally at the cost of rigidity.
Elegoo 8k space grey is a tad more flexible. Some people mix in so sirayatech tenacious with their 8k to toughen it up.
I like anycubiv FLp craftsman's for it's sharpnes and strength. And some and resins are fairly decent, just not that sharp.
Phrozen 4k is nice. In fact ours is kinda like phrozen 4k resin. But is also water washable. Which is probably why it costing us more
mines still in its box.. just dunno if i should open it and use. i won it in competition.. but need a spare room and ventilation etc.. hhmm just dunno if i can get this setup
Been looking g at getting the Mars 4 Ulrta, or the Saturn 3. Can I use any pfa film for the Mars 4Ultra and cut it to size as I can’t find the exact one for it?
yeah, even when you get the right size, you still need to trim it, but do that after it;ls in the frame, just trim the edge.
@@FauxHammer perfect, thought so. Thank you and now believe I have made my choice on witch printer to get 👍🏻
Up here in Canada the Mars 4 Ultra is about $180 more than the Mars 4 9K. If we ignore the high speed capabilities of the Ultra, is there still any reason to spend the extra money on it?
Question about potentially swapping the ACF film for PFA - none of the PFA film options on Elegoo's website specifically fit the Mars 4 9k Ultra. Could another PFA film pack from their web store fit? Or is there a 3rd party I should look into?
Any PFA film will be fine, so long as it's big enough to cover the VAT area Creality is what tend to get, usually cheap enough from Amazon
What are the advantages of pouring the resin on top of the build plate and not directly in to the vat?
You mentioned in an earlier video that you've explained it before but I can't find an explanation.
If you do this from a nice height you can splash resin all over your printer so you can have fun cleaning it up. Just shake your resin before pouring if you want it actually mixed.
It's just for cinematic effect, that's all
Thank you for your video's on Resin Printing. I've been looking into 3d printing for a very long time. I am currently building a Voron 2.4 because I decided to start with a MDF printer since I wanted an all purpose printer to start with. However, at the time I was shopping most decent Resin Printers were still in the $600 to $800 range. I've since discovered the Elegoo Mars 4 Max and that range of printers, which, for a beginner in resin printing, are very reasonably priced. Thank you for your reviews on those and thank you for your notes on ACF with this video. It has made my decision about which one of the Elegoo printers to go for much easier.
All of that said, I noticed right away that you pour your resin into the resin tank by pouring it over the top of the build plate and letting it run off into the tank. Is there a particular reason you add resin this way? It looks to me like it would pose a number of potential problems and I'm trying to understand why so that I can do things right from the beginning.
The idea of a Voron scares me
The resin pour is just a signature move. Has no value
@@FauxHammer I get that. But for an MDF printer I couldn't find a better printer that can do more than a Voron.
I wonder what resolution is actually approriate for ACF printer, probaby something 6k or below. 8k or up the added quality is removed by ACF artifacting.
Exactly
I have a Phrozen Mighty 8k and while I do print really amazing prints I would have to say for people wanting to print way bigger pieces with models that can take up several build plate space, Speed is indeed a factor. Reducing time by as much as 50% on a 9 hour print means I can finish models in one day instead of two. Maybe for minatures speed really isnt an issue because they dont use up as much time and space but for bigger prints not only does speed matter but also reducing the amount of failures which are less common in small minutures.
As a jeweler, I can see the benefit of speed in order to show prototypes to clients prior to manufacturing. Having two trays with both films with be an ideal situation... Heck, having 2 printers, 1 for each tray would be even better :)
Ok ok, that' sounds like a solid use. Inasume you could do a tray of test sizes too?
I just bought one and im just getting into printing were does one get the fep swap out, and when you do swap it out, what settings do you have to change since that'll slow the lift time
You can get PFA aka NFEP anywhere. You sealing out whenever you want and in the slicer change your lift speeds
Check my how to print miniatures video for dialing in your printer.
@@FauxHammer thank you for the info and I will
Ok.....I'm new to 3D printing Resin or filament. So my question is what resolution do I aim for? The higher number or lower? Does the higher number mean more pixels and a more flawless print or does the lower number mean that. I'm looking at the Anycubic M5s. I watched your video on it and though you didn't think it did any better than the M5 it had better features for a noob like me. I also am looking at the unifirmation gk2. However it's double the price and being new to this i dont want to spend alot of money. Any advice would be appreciated. I really like your videos. They are in depth and informative
The higher the number the more detail that pops out in theory, especially on smaller prints.
It depends what you are trying to do, But the M5S is a perfectly good beginner machine. Only buy more expensive when you know exactly why you are doing so.
Higher resolution numbers mean more detail (except there's more to it than that ofc...) So 8k is (potentially) better than 4k for instance. Being new to it, you should bear in mind a couple of things, some of which review channels rarely mention:
Is it a really popular printer? (you want to get a really popular printer to help with any trouble shooting as lots of people will own one and have solved issues before you come across them)
Are parts for it (new fep sheets, LCD, replacement resin vat, power supply, touch screen) easily available?
Where will your printer live? If it's in a workshop or garage, you probably don't need to worry too much about the fumes from the resin, but if it's in your home then is it possible for you to get a printer with some sort of air filter built in?
How warm is the environment that it will live be? (You would ideally keep the resin at around 22-27 degrees C)
Where is the power button and usb port located? On some printers the usb port is on the side, which is a mild pain, the power button can often be on the back, which is also a pain (it sounds like no big deal, but you'd be surprised how annoying it can be while you're regularly using it).
Does it have wifi (which *actually* works, because quite a few of them in the past have had it, but it didn't actually work or wasn't reliable).
Finally, does it have anti aliasing? (Most newer printers do)
So consider those points, but don't stress too much. Once you get the hang of using one, the only things you'll really regret are if you buy one that has a print bed that's smaller than you'd ideally like and whether it's easy to find information about it to help with troubleshooting issues, as well as is it easy to get replacement parts for.
4k Is probably fine for most applications, 8k is nice... 12k is honestly more than 99% need (and you won't be able to tell any difference by eye between that and 8k anyway), a Fresnel lens would be nice, but it's not worth agonizing over, you'll be able to print great stuff with a regular lens.
Heads up: You'll make mistakes learning to use it, everyone does, you'll spill some uncured resin at some point, everyone does, but you'll be chuffed to bits when you have your first successful print, everyone is! :D
Higher resolution is more detail, but what the community has come to compare is the pixel size. The smaller the pixels, the higher the detail.
If you are new, chekxnout my article in best 3d printer for miniatures. Link in video description. And this puts my preferences forball these printers in order.
We love to point out all the quality short-cuts Elegoo, and it's competitors, take to push out these printers but at least the cost reflects those short-cuts. We ought to be somewhat thankful that we don't have to pay thousands for better fit and finish on a machine that would produce the same quality prints.
You would thing you would like a high quality build that lasts longer but let's face it, we can't help but upgrade after a couple years.
Yeah, they are killing it in the market by being very efficient with their costs
So if you buy the Mars or Saturn ultra and swap the VAT AFC to a PFA it's the same quality as the base version?
Apparently not so much with the Mars, only the ultra has a fresnel lens
I don’t have a printer but thinking of getting one. I want to print mini’s so quality over speed. Just basic good sense. Love the vids great info
Interesting video! i got a saturn 3 12k and the "fep" was cloudy and i wasnt getting the expected results. after changing to actual fep (i thought theyd left a protective layer on in factory by accident) im actually getting fantastic results now! at the time i wasnt aware of acf but yeah im sticking to proper fep sheets for now for sure! NGL im curious how much better your new resin is for minis than sunlu standard grey may pick some up soon to compare!
You got the ultra version? Or does the Saturn 3 also come with ACF?
@@patt4343 Saturn 3 does not come with acf only ultra
Thanks for sharing. I live comments like that that validate and groove the point I was making, rather than just complain at me about it.
Glad you got the result you wanted and it is an easy change
Nice video, I will buy my first resin printer. I’m not sure if buy the mars4 ultra or the anycubic m5s. Or do you recommend a different printer? I have only FDM printers. Thanks.
Saturn 3
@@FauxHammer thanks for your reply, the bad thing is that is not listed in Amazon US I will be there in US in a few days and I need to buy it next week in US and bring it to my country Uruguay. In Uruguay I can not find those printers.
I recently bought a Saturn 8K and I have been very pleased with the print quality over my old Mars 2PRO. (Nevermind the much larger build plate) I can't see me replacing the Saturn anytime soon.
Yeah that's is an awesome printer
I still haven't had chance to start using the saturn 2 I got late last year. I've kept wondering about an upgrade to this generation, but honestly I don't really think it feels like there's enough of a difference right now for me
Just ordered 2kg of the Wargamer resin - as while I love using Phrozen 8k resin - its far to brittle for everyday use of miniatures, - so really looking forward to testing this wargamer resin
so, if i get a saturn 3 ultra, should i just get a replacement for the regular saturn 3 that uses the PFA ? what is better having a second resin tank with PFA or just get PFA Films and change the film in the original tank?
If you want the extra features on the ultra go for it. But wondering if you should have a second tank is your choice, personally I think having a tank for speed and another for quality would be nice!
@@Colt3D25 yeah i might do that, ultra + extra tank i think its like 50-60usd, for the wifi and the 4 point leveling
Yeah I think Colt answered this well. And yeah your ball on the extra tank.
But I bet, in the next 6 months, yo won't use the tank with the act on more than once
Does the mars 4 have better resolution than the mars 4 ultra?
I have a Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8k, which does amazing detail, I don't care about how long it takes to print because I always start my prints at night or when I go to work, most prints are finished by the time I get up or return from work, quality is what I want.
Thanks for sharing! You are completely right, I do the same. If a print takes long, is rather have that and a good print.
Looking at getting this and replacing the ACF with nFEP. Not as fast as ACF, yet faster than FEP. Build quality between FEP and nFEP on my Orange 4K were basically identical.
So what if you replace the vat between the prints ? Are Saturn 3 and Saturn 3 Ultra Vat's the same ?
Yes they are the same
Yeah, just change the vat. Or realise that ACF is crap and you’ll never use it and just change the film.
can be standard fep mounted instead the acf? is it possible to have a comparison test? thanks for your effort mate.
Yes, absolutely. I have both printers now and will show comparisons. there;s little in it, but it;s slightly worse with ACF.
thanks mate, i'm a modeler and i print with my mars 3 pro max and its definitely a good machine, but im going to get a new printer hopefully. I model with high density pixel/details, and those 12k (or 9k) printers are what i need. In the end many reviewers miss the point when using those machine, ill try to explain. If you have for example a 1inch thing with more details than what a printer can print (due to lower pixel density) it will flat out and average the details. But if you have an higher density model (more points or polygons) a better screen with higher resolution can make a huge difference. For example, when you have a model with surface like cloth or wood, with fine detail, usually you decimate it to a lower density to save end user hassle (i.e computer power, more manageable file size and so on), but you loose those pixel and you have a lesser detailed version. I see many reviewers use flat surfaces or undetailed stuff (even with lots of geometry) that produce the same result as a 2k screen or a lower end machine and they pretend they are the same. To have a real comparison you have to use a very detailed model and im sure those 12k will shine. Im just interested to see if they can make really the difference, and im sure they do, and also understand if that acf is really a detail killer. If you want a sample of one my high density model, ill send you a sample so you can compare yourself. keep up the good work mate. @@FauxHammer
I know this is going to sound stupid since I’m just starting to use 3d printing but do you think that maybe the screen protector might have something to do with bad prints seeing that it’s another layer that light has to go through 🤔
Based n my testing on the M5S, I strongly doubt it.
I was turned off by the ACF due to the low detail I was seeing from people posting pics of their prints in the M5s facebook group, to the point that I just went for the 8K Uniformity instead. Much more expensive, but since FH puts it at the top of his list for printing minies, that's what I went with.
Is it also at the top of your list when it comes to details? Because quality of life aside, in the end details are what matter no?
Well, the m5 screen isn’t very sharp anyway. So adding act will make it worse
Can elegoo mars 4 ultra use the mars 2 resin tank? I try to buy an extra resin tank, just not sure what size I should get? Please help.
You need a Mars 4 or 4 ultra tank
@@FauxHammer thanks
Nice vid as usual buddy
great review. the main comment I would have is when you had the test comparisons on the screen, the Ultra (right side) was actually slightly out of focus. so yeah it looks blurrier. :D
Yeah sorry, it's older footage. But you can see more vertical lines and recesses at the bottom.
I picked up the mars 4 ultra, but I already knew I’d have to swap to pfa and I’m cool with that, if you print enough, you know how often you have to replace the fep anyway so it’s not terrible to have a speedy option for parts that don’t require the hi res.
Good shout
I have an old Anycubic Mono still using its original FEP film after going through over 7 1000ml bottles of resin (or about 100 print jobs in my case). Applying PTFE dry lube to the FEP film every time you go through a bottle of resin significantly increases the lifespan of the film. I've since recently upgraded to the Anycubic Mono 2 and Anycubic M5s and expect those films to last quite a while too.
@@agentcee688 I use ptfe lube too, but after a dozen prints the film starts to look like shit with splotches and whatnot that translates into the prints so as soon as I see deformation from the fep I swap em out though I suppose it could last much longer.
@@esurfrider7687 I guess for what I print the condition of the FEP film isn't that important, it still prints with the quality I want. As long as it still works, that's all that matters, which in my case is a LONG time.
Have you thought about doing a video on the Features you'd like to see in a 3D printer and what would be your perfect 3D printer? (with in reason of course) Would be cool to hear your complete thoughts on this subject.
I actually have yeah. But what I won't keeps changing.
My prints with the Mars 4 Ultra are clearly not as sharp as with the phrozen 12k even though the resolution is better. Even after switching back to nFep. Also the printer is faster than the prediction time of the slicer. Still trying to figure out what's going on. The print time is faster than theoretically possible. Maybe the printer or the GOO Format ignores light off delay? Would explain faster time and worse print quality. Anyone had similar experience?
I’m not sure about the sharpness. But this was my experience with the Mars 4 too. It’s not quite as sharp as larger 12k or even 8k printers
@@FauxHammer My 2 Hypothesis right now are: The printer ignores "wait before cure'" settings and the quality is due to resin still moving or it's the z-axis accuracy (Elegoo says it's only 0.02mm for Mars 4 Ultra compared to 0.00125mm for Mars 3)
@@Silence-ug1jp may want to consider your layer height then too. if for example you have .03 layers, then the printer will double cure some layers as it compensates for your 0.03 images but it is moving to 0.02, then 0.04 then 0.06 etc. your slices would want only 2 layers to teach that 0.06 layer height. and so you;d end up with variations of 0.02 layers and 0.04 layers as it goes through the print.
Interested to see how this stacks up against a Mars 3 or something similar. I understand that the ACF means the 4 sacrifices a bit of quality for speed, but if that reduction means that it is still producing excellent quality prints (hopefully better than the 3) just faster then I'm all for it? There's a limit on how much detail you can actually see once a mini is primed and painted, and I'm not sold on the idea that exposure tests reflect that.
It's not as sharp as the mars 3 when you use ACF
I won a mars 3 pro on a painting contest, I was thinking on writing asking if I can pay the difference and get a mars 4, should i do that?
Normal mars 4, no ultra
Not tested the mars 4, but mars 3 is fine. If you win it I expect you can’t pay the difference, they’ll already have the unit
Since is an elegoo can't you just replace the acf for a PFA or a fep without having to replace the entire vat like the m5?
Yes you could do that
Yeah. You can. But I'm not wasting a perfectly good ACF film for the sake of that test. And I also don't have the time. Sorty
This review is for this lribtsr. The Mars 4 review will be for that printer.
The final comparison review will be doing these crossover tests. I appreciate people want to know now. But these videos also need to carmter for the people watching 6 months from now who just want to dive in in a particular printer it see the comparison.
It will make sense in the end.
Where do I get the film sawp?
Anywhere that sells NFEp it PFa. Amazon
Fauxhammer, I love your reviews, all the 3d product purchases I have made where inspired by your reviews, I am looking forward to your hopeful review of the elegoo saturn 3 ultra, I guess they've also been watching your reviews and have made some changes especially to the ball socket 😅, I would like to purchase one but would want to hear your thoughts on it before I make a hopeful purchase. Can you pls find out whether this 3d printer the elegoo has a Print Resume feature in the case of a power outage. The anycubic printers I use have this feature and I absolutely love them for it, I am in Africa and unexpected power outages are a bit of the norm, will love to watch a video on whether all 3d printers (SLA) have this feature, because frankly anything can happen I am looking forward to your reviews and response to this lengthy text. Thank you in advance faux hammer. Lastly anycubic have completely stopped their production of the m3 premium, my all time favourite printer 😢 I don't know why, but I can't seem to get it any where not even in china 😢 I guess the build and performance quality was too good to continue production, I frankly think it much better than thier m5s
I know my Saturn 2 has that function cause I had a owier cur. Not only did it reune, it did it automatically when the power came back on
Thank you Faux hammer
Is possibile to switch to a regular FEP sheet?
Yes, easily, check out the Mars 4 vs 4 Ultra Video
I've been using the ACF film for a few months and I'm not liking the vertical line texture. I think the frosted particles of the film are diffracting/blocking the light as it passes through the frost, thus creating speckled light & dark areas.
Oh you're so right!
Just bought this printer as a complement to my Sonic Mini-8K, but mostly for printing castable resins for metal casting. Will be replacing the ACF with nFEP film before I print a single print! Buying it for the 9K/18µ pixel size because I want the best most detailed metal prints I can get.
FYI... Maybe the printer you reviewed in this video, but all the advertising/product descriptions that I've seen show that this printer has a tempered glass screen protector over the LCD.
How has the Mars 4 ultra for cast worked for you? I just ordered it to start with 3D jewelry castings, but I have doubts about whether it is the best option in terms of printing quality.
That Wargamer resin looks intriguing, I wanted something ABSlike, but waterwashable. It's not sold in EU though, right?
Yeah that exactly what we wanted to put out there but also sharper that most abs like. Not in the EU yet, but we are trying. Only way to do it would be to import from Uk and prices would be insane
@@FauxHammer looking forward to it. I am in a weird situation when I will live in UK for next 8 months, but my 3d printer is back in EU and sadly resin is not exactly something that one can take with them on the plane ;).
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when you change out the FEP, and if there's any benefits to this one over the Mars 4 in the end.
the nice thing about the ultra it comes with wifi, frensel lens (i hope it doesn't yellow as it's plastic) and better build mechanism, it would be better to give PFA film and double rails than ACF film..they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot here
It will be the same quality as the nars 4 but with the other enhanced features. Just like the M5s was to the M5
@@FauxHammer the point is to see if it's worth the extra money..in my mind yes, the issue they don't have yet a spare vat for sale yet
@@St0RM33 I’ve got a Saturn 3 resin tank with PFA arriving soon and will try printing out some minis to see how much sharper it is compared to the ACF that came with the ultra
@@slayer1551 hmm tag me once you do:)
Great video!
I would love to see a video changing the fep and comparing with its little sister and big brothers before black friday :) This would help me make up my mind as having a different lens might make the results unsatisfactory. What do you think?
Hope you're subscribed then, because it's out tomorrow
@@FauxHammer What great news!
Of course, I was already for a long time! ;)
Interesting. This is the first I'd heard of the ACF films, but I too am more interested in quality over speed. I'm not trying to print in bulk quantity for commercial purposes..
Hope I explained it well
Mars 4 ultra or gktwo?
Shiiiiiiiiiit. I've already ordered saturn 3 ultra. Should I try to change for normal, or just change film?
Just change the film
I use acf film for when I need to print and iterate on a model. Once I get something final I just print with nfep. so for me it works perfect. I have a photon m5s and its been printing great right out of the box.
Could you make a video about air ventilation? How to setup, what do buy etc.
If I ever under it myself. Sure
@@FauxHammer Ah you dont have any? Not concerned about the vocs? Only reason I have not bought a printer yet.
There is a "Your 3D Printer is killing you" video that covers this quite well. The title is a bit of an exaggeration. But that specific video goes into detail about ventilation set up, and air quality testers, which is industrial and until that video i haven't seen anyone use. Basically he found the "charcol filters" were all sold on for printing don't even work. They just reduce the small so we think the air is cleaner.
Would the reduced sucky force of acf film mean the ability to reduce supports/support contact size? The biggest downfall of resin printers detail is support damage
Yeah very possibly. But most stuff I print is presupported anyway.
Yes, especially for larger prints ... ACF is a godsend for functional parts that need to be prototyped.
I still print on a mars2pro and a Jupiter, so I range from 45 to 50 microns voxels and no one imagines I’m using “old” printers.
Food for thought..
Since I changed my M5S to standard FEP, I am not going back to the ACF. I would love to give Wargamer a try, but cannot find it stateside, and it seems a bit pricey compared to my SirayaTech Simple go to.
Thanks, great yo hear from people like you who have done this rather than people who just comment against this point and have never tried.
Yeah it is expensive, sorry. But we feel it’s the best balance out there for miniatures and it’s easy to use with it being water washable
Hi, do you mind solving some doubts? I'm new into 3D printing and I've pre-ordered the M5s. I'm a bit concerned since there are multiple videos praising it's printing quality, but I've also found the videos and analysis from FauxHammer in which says that the printing quality is not as good as the Phrozen Mini 8k, for example. I want to print wargaming miniatures and bits to do conversions and maybe some more bigger models or terrain. I've found that you are one of the few people that has changed the ACF for the FEP, and I was wondering if it really makes a difference in quality, or should I think about swapping to another printer with smaller printing area but smaller pixel size. Thanks a lot!
@@munias17 the printer is great, but I am not a fan of the ACF film and I changed my FEP out. If you are printing miniature armies, you will want a medium format build plate ( M5, M5S, Saturn, Mighty 8k, etc). You can get more on the plate. If you are doing one off models, I would recommend going with the Elegoo Mars line (not the Ultra due to ACF film) or Mini 8ks for your first printer. The Mars 4 series has the smallest pixels at this time and Fauxhammer just put out a review. If you got the entry price on the M5S I would stick with it. You can always change the film if the ACF doesn't work for you. That is what I did. I highly recommend Siraya tech Simple water washable to start. It is an easy resin to deal with and has a good price point with great results. The is also a great Reddit community building up for the M5S at r/AnyCubicPhotonMonoM5s.
ACF work best for large model because you can use lesser support, less support mean less bumpy surface and easier for post processing, sure you will sacrifice some micro detail, but what is the point of having sharper detail if you'll have to sand it later to smooth support's marks. Also multipart model can fit easier due to less distortion/warp.
So basically, from a miniature wargaming perspective, this means it is the best option to print all of your terrain in resin. Especially since most terrain lack large swathes of smooth surfaces. Which when viewed in that light, is not a bad thing at all.
This just needs to be effectively marketed for such projects, instead of allowing users to assume they are getting the best resolution on this screen than any other printer, when the OEM ACF is getting in the way of that.
Thus, it's only drawback, is Elegoo's lack of effective communication of that quality to consumers.
This very well may be one of the resin printers where you would really want two separate resin tanks. One with ACF, and one with FEP, to get the best of both worlds for just the cost of merely one additional tank, rather than the cost of an additional printer...
Perhaps this may yet turn out to be a hot ticket item afterall.
I'm sure the print quality will be much better than my original Mars which I still use and is my only resin printer.
You can just replace the film with a normal FEP and problem solved.
The ultra version actually should get you higher quality resoults once you do that because it has a frensel lens unlike the regular mars 4.
In theory but I have not seen any proof.
Yeah, exactly right. I only learned about the fresnel lens differrnce after making the video
@@FauxHammer Its also the best point of comparison we have of how it affects prints.
Saturn 8k and saturn 2 also had a different light source so not all difference in quality is necessarily from the lens.
@@magikarp2063 yeah now that I know this is there, I’m actually concerned the Mars 4 may read as worse than the Mini8k with softer edges. It wasn’t a huge deal on the sat 2 bs 8k comparison I did, but it was there.
I am jeweller? This printer is working to make the rings very well. I want to use a purple resin is okay is working with this resin? I am waiting for your response thank you.
Pretty much any printer will work with any resin
I'm confused why you aren't reviewing the Prusa resin printer.
They haven't sent me one
In the video you say there is no screen protector, while Elegoo on their website says the Ultra version comes with glass screen protector..who is correct?
I guess it’s Elegoo and I just didn’t get one on mine
@@FauxHammer my thoughts too, maybe because it's a review unit; example the caps on the build plate screws were added later after uncle jessy's review
Where do I get wargamer resin in the US without having to pay UK shipping?
It's only in the UK for now, sorry we will look to open up to worldwide shipping asap
HI! I assume that the tray of mars 4 and mars 4 are exactly the same, isnit?, except for the film. For 29€, I think im going to buy mars 4 ultra and the tray of mars 4. Great video! You have to consider to sell your resin in spain also.
yep, identical between normal and ultra machines
Print quality. Every time. The makers got something confused... we wanted print speed AS LONG AS we didn't give up quality.
I suppose the guys doing mass printing (Etsy folks?) have a different criteria, but for people like me who want to make their own models for gaming and painting, it's quality we're looking for.
I really appreciate your reviews, but I have a question - CAN WE REMOVE THE ACF FILM FOR FEP? If so, what does that do to the printer settings? Can the slicer handle it? Does the printer pre-configs get all messed up?
MANY MANY THANKS!
For me the advantage is just easier releasing meaning fewer supports and (hopefully) cleaner prints but as you say if it's at the cost of detail its sorta pointless.
I'll take the Ultra just for the other upgrades & get a 2nd vat with a pfa screen so I can swap them.
Can you replace the ACF with something else?
PFA, also known as NFEP
Thank you for the review. i think i will order the 4k Ultra and replace the ACF. i canceld my M5S order although i made the order very cheap (374€), but the M5S is too big for me and i was worried about extra costs when i have to replace the display or so.
Good call, it's a solid unit. Though why not a Saturn I stead of m5? I don't know what you print but yi me, that larger build area is so much more useful. Even than quality in most cases.
@@FauxHammer still unsure after watching lot of printer reviews. I don't need big build area since i just print small tabletop figures and no full units or so. i am affraid of higher costs for repairing and other extras if i choose a big printer. Did you get your Mars 4? i would love to see the comparison and the print with the Mars 4 Ultra with PFA. The new video about the Saturn 3 Ultra was confusing :D
The non-Ultra can be picked up at good discounts. The base models do not have the Fresnel lenses, and this might be the key difference, but I can find no confirmation. Anyone got an opinion or seen a review?
my review is up now for members and will be out on Tuesday, i have a comparison review coming shortly after.
hello Hopefully there is a fair comparison between Elegoo Mars4_untra vs Phrozen Sonic Mini 8KS
i wanted to see this but he spend half the video complaining instead of testing..
Yeah, this is much worse in terms of quality. Please refer to my exposure test printed in this and on another 29micron printer.
You can compare that to the one in my 8ks video and see this is worse.
Well I do the testing for several days before record it, and then use the footage to explain the problems. Was my complaint wrong?
It's important to go over the detail of these new features because its a new concept and needs more detail in the explanation.
@@FauxHammer technically in theory now that i am thinking, you might get better edge resolution with a higher micron printer when both are printed on the same film; but the acf film might diffuse the light too much to not make any difference
I think the reason behind this is that small business do care about print speed since even if they do have idle times with their printers.. they do work based on batched and orders.. and when they happen they have a deadline. imagine having a big order and being unable to fulfill the order because it's impossible to match a quota based on the printer speed unless you have to buy a new printer. And small business that can do this.. will buy more than one printer for their farms so.. it's a pretty important business as well besides hobbyists..
I get that, but I'd be more worried when that business hands out those fast printedcmodels and the client balks at the quality suddenly being far worse than what they had before.