My Favorite 12V Off-grid Systems for 2024!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- 12V Performance Package (affiliate links):
Epoch 12V 460Ah (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/produc...
Victron 12V Inverters: www.currentconnected.com/prod...
Victron Solar Charge Controllers: www.currentconnected.com/prod...
12V Budget Package:
Litime 460Ah: www.litime.com/products/litim...
Giandel Inverter: www.mobile-solarpower.com/inv...
Budget Solar Charge Controller: www.mobile-solarpower.com/sol...
Mobile 48V System for Beginners: www.mobile-solarpower.com/mob...
0:00 Intro
1:29 Best Performance 12V System
4:07 Best Budget 12V System
8:49 Why you should switch to 48V
Does off-grid solar confuse you?
Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more!
www.mobile-solarpower.com
Join our DIY solar community
#1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike:
www.diysolarforum.com
Check out my Book
Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar!
amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509
My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):
12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/sol...
Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/sol...
Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v...
Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/ful...
Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/com...
DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/sol...
My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:
Signature Solar
Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps:
www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h...
Current Connected
SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support:
currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
Litime
My favorite 12V budget battery!:
www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFc...
Epoch Batteries
My favorite high-quality 12V battery:
www.epochbatteries.com/produc...
Renogy
A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more!
renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx
Rich Solar
Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price:
richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
Battery Hookup
Cheap cell deals
bit.ly/2mIxSqt
5% off code: diysolar
Contact Information:
I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com
Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :)
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program,
An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
*12V Performance Package (affiliate links):*
Epoch 12V 460Ah (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d
Victron 12V Inverters: www.currentconnected.com/product-category/inv/12-volt-inverters/?ref=wp
Victron Solar Charge Controllers: www.currentconnected.com/product-category/solar/charge-controllers/?ref=wp
*12V Budget Package:*
Litime 460Ah: www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-460ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery-250a-bms-5888wh-energy?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns
Giandel Inverter: www.mobile-solarpower.com/inverters.html
Budget Solar Charge Controller: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-charge-controllers.html
Mobile 48V System for Beginners: www.mobile-solarpower.com/mobile-48v-system.html
0:00 Intro
1:29 Best Performance 12V System
4:07 Best Budget 12V System
8:49 Why you should switch to 48V
*Does off-grid solar confuse you?*
Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more!
www.mobile-solarpower.com
*Join our DIY solar community*
#1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike:
www.diysolarforum.com
*Check out my Book*
Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar!
amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509
*My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):*
12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html
Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html
Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html
Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html
Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html
DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html
*My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:*
*Signature Solar*
Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps:
www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
*Current Connected*
SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support:
currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
*Litime*
My favorite 12V budget battery!:
www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns
*Epoch Batteries*
My favorite high-quality 12V battery:
www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d
*Renogy*
A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more!
renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx
*Rich Solar*
Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price:
richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
*Battery Hookup*
Cheap cell deals
bit.ly/2mIxSqt
5% off code: diysolar
*Contact Information:*
I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com
Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
*FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:*
Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :)
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program,
An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Again. Thank you for the effor here...your work is much appreciated for the community. Thanks, Will.
We have a 12 vote system on our RV because we started in 2018. We bought your book and used it as a guideline for how to do our project. I imagine there are many people who followed your book and are stuck with a 12 volt system. Other than Battle Born and Lion there simply weren't any other good batteries in 2018 and Victron was the only inverter at the time that was highly recommended. My 10 year 100 amp Battle Borns (4)have a long way to go. However if I were building one today I think the forty eight volt would absolutely be the way to go. The tech and competition has changed a lot in the last 6 years. Thanks for your programs. I have been following you since 2017. Best out there.
The biggest thing I ran into is people don't understand the amp hours they get confused thinking of 12 volt 200 amp hour is better than a 48 volt 100 amp hour cuz they don't know how to convert it to watt hours this is the biggest problem I've run into when trying to get people to convert their RV over
The higher the tech ,,, the more to go wrong.
Though it should be noted that the MPPT 100/30 only supports 12/24V. And even though this is a 12V system, there is no reason not to buy a Victron that can do 12/24/36/48V. That make upgrading later on cheaper. So I recommend the Victron SmartSolar 100/20 or the 150/35.
The 100/20 is $85. It is a really good value, though at only 20A it is really designed more for 24V and 48V system. Still, for a starter 12V system a 100/20 supports 256W of solar (12.8V x 20A = 256W).
And always make sure it is a "SmartSolar" (which has built-in bluetooth), and not the "BlueSolar" (no built-in bluetooth).
Please never sellout like other TH-camrs... I have no intention on building an off grid system (i have an ongrid system) but i still watch you clips for the interesting, in depth, information. Thank you!
I don't think it's possible 😂 I've been brutally honest even as a child. I'd rather die than not haha
@@WillProwse
😜🙏🖖
I would love to see Will sell out and do a collab with Fendi!! Or even Louis Vuitton! That would be awesome.
@@WillProwse what do you think about eco worthy batteries? They have a 12v 280ah for $512.
I have to admit I actually bought the bluetti ac200max on Will's recommendation. It's still going after a year of continuous use
One reason people stick with 12v is walmart and auto parts stores don't sell 48v parts. And when you are on the road you need to fix it quickly
I wonder what it'll take to get industry to start stocking 48V...
RV lighting and appliances run off 12V not 48V
That's even more of an issue if you are taking your vehicle/camper outside of North America. It can be near impossible to find a quality 12v pure sine inverter or charger in Guatemala or Peru. Finding the same in 48v... possibly a marine dealer in a large city may have Victron, if you are lucky. Likely you would have ask a friend to courier a replacement 48v item from the US (Customs duties?), else wait a few weeks for shipping. Amazon is not everywhere. I like the idea of 48v systems for all the efficiency reasons Will mentioned, but your point about general availability will likely keep me at 12 volts, at least for my international travel vehicle.
@@FJRyder 48V to 12V stepdown converters are cheap and readily available as they're used in golf carts. If you're worried about reliability carry a spare or two, they're only $20-30 depending on the wattage.
@@andrewfidel2220 That's cool, I didn't know they were that cheap.
Will, don’t get stuck on the idea that everyone needs 120 power in an RV or mobile application, the main systems almost all require 12v even if they will run on 120v as well. Slides, furnace, lights, jacks, hot water heater…Here in the summer at 90-103 deg outside, we’re a 43ft rv running 3 rv ACs, no one is running full off grid in an RV, just too inefficient to do so at our temps and humidity levels. Now in the winter a simple 12v system 2-3 lithium batteries (no inverter) 2-3 100w panels and your good to go, paired with propane for heat. So 12v systems still have their place depending on what you need for power. So keep going with the great 12v battery tear downs and videos, the simple system guys like myself really appreciate it.
Will Prowse, youve probably never heard of Keysight Technologies, but here at HQ all the technicians swear by your videos. This means a lot coming from a building full of engineers. Please keep up the great uploads. You got me into solar last month and i just wanted to say you are making a difference on all levels!
I'd love to see a video regarding 48V automotive/RV systems covering everything from tip to tail including 48V alternators and 12V stepdown converters. We have a off-road overlanding camper we'd like to charge (the proper way) from the tow vehicle while traveling and from solar while camping.
cant say its worth it for your setup the cost will be a lot
Just making it complicated tho stepping down everything to 12v I totally get what will and everyone is saying but seems overly complicated for no reason just for 48v
I'm looking for the same info. So far, I cannot find savings of any significant nature to go to 48V in an RV setup. Perhaps his savings comment applies more to homes and stationary deployments where you need to string a lot of cabling. Doesn't seem to be a factor in an RV deployment that I can see.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you for taking the time to help us.
Thank you Will!! I will definitely be researching 48 Volt systems now
Keep in mind that smaller and older sailboats have 12V systems.
If i should go for a 24 or 48V system i need DC-DC converters down to 12 for my instruments and often VHF.
And to replace, fridges, depthsounder, speed-sensor, wind-sensor, autopilot, MFDs, GPS, VHF, lights etc to something that handles a higher voltage brings with it ALOT of money (guessing somewhere around 10-15k USD).
And allthou i can run it with a DC-DC converter i will loose quite alot energy to heat, with limited space for solar, i do not have energy to spare.
And the inverter for a small sailboat does not hardly get used either, so the focus for us is more often than not on the 12V-system. :)
Thanks for the content!
I am in the exact same "boat". When I saw this video I thought the same thing as you. 12v is the way to go on a sailboat. I probably have 20k worth of 12v equipment on my boat and very little 120v. I seldom turn on my inverter.
You're the best and easiest-to-understand electrical power instructor. I knew nothing of 48v solar sys before today, Very informative and useful.
Thank you so much. Every video is incredibly helpful. You are definitely my go to guy. The service you do is difficult to quantify.
Cheers!
Thanks Will! Always updating and not afraid to change recommendations as the technology changes!
Ham Radio usually requires 12v in the field. Lots of use for a 12v system. You are correct that most of them are small systems.
It's pretty easy to step the voltage down
You don't want to hang the ham rig off the home battery anyway, it is usually too noisy electrically (EMF/EMI). So for that case, and also for marine radios (less power but super-critical in case of emergency), you use a 12V down-buffer battery that is charged from the home battery. It doesn't have to be a big battery, just big enough to handle the transmit load.
I run my shack fully off grid Yaesu ft897D.. It did take a lot of work with ferrite sleeves and ft240/31 cores to get the noise to sn acceptable level
Another thing was multiple earth's caused a lot of issues
But now I can hear US Air Traffic Control on 17.946mhz at night in my kenwood R1000
Something impossible before the noise work
Cheers guys
I've a 12v system, built 2019. Always on Victron multiplus 2000kva and a additional giandel 3000w, Epever MPPT. Mainly due to your videos, with a raw cell 12kwh bank. It just works!
Really appreciate your information and how you explain things!
Great video Will! I really appreciate the advice on going/staying 48v and the budget equipment options when it's a smart choice.
Will... you are the man when it comes to solar. You have come a long way. Always with that enthusiasm. Big fan young man. Im really contemplating doing a 48v back up system for my home. And I know I can do it thanks to you. God Bless 🙌 🙏
Good to know. When in a position to move ...will just be looking at 48 volt systems. Thank you Will, great advice as always.
You are a class act, Will. You obviously remember your roots. Great! Keep it up. Still hoping for a series on a Leen,
Hi Will, greetings from Finland! Thanks for your nice videos. Altough many of those batteries aren't sold at this side of the big water, they still are very informative.
I went with a middle ground 24v system 2 years ago in my van as I already had a 24v 2000w inverter, plus the iceco frig I bought can run off 24v. And it’s been working well…I have 2 Victron 75/15 solar charge controllers one for 600w roof panels and 350w ground panels, 16KW of lifepo4 prismatic cells and it’s all worked well.
COULD YOU PLEASE DO A VIDEO OF A 48V SYSTEM FROM A TO Z. I HAVE A 12V, BUT IF YOU TEACH US, WE CAN SWITCH.
48v Victron system build please!
Yes, a 48v mobile review/plan would be awesome.
and a 48v remote cabin build...that already has two existing 80w 120v panels. 🙂
Oh and a discount shoe string 48volt system btw
Although that does not exist in alternators.
You have convinced me to look into a 48v system. My 12v system is simply used for power outages for lights and keep the modem and computer working but I am very intrigued on how much more I can get out of a 48v system. Thank you Will. I really like your videos. Very detailed for us no nothing beginners LOL
Hi Will, I have an answer and a reason for using a 12 volt system. When I camp (like at Burning Man), I use a lot of 12 power. I have a CPAP, laptop computer, multiple 12 V LED light strings, a 50 watt VHF/UHF Amateur radio, a 12 V refrigerator, a 12 V USB bank for charging head lamps and bike lights. All of this stuff runs on 12 volts. Why would I convert to 120 VAC and then have to use multiple 120 volt A/C to 12 volt DC convertors? Now I completely agree that for stationary systems 48 volts is the answer, 48 volts is much more efficient and lower losses. But when most of your stuff is 12 volts it isn't efficient to convert up and then back down again. I do also have a 2,000 watt inverter for charging a couple of tool chargers that only work on 120 volt A/C. So I believe that this is a case, at least my case for building a 12 volt system.
I’m with you on this. It’s so much easier to find 12v products over 48v and to step down to 12v is counter intuitive to me.
He just explained why in the video
I just rebuilt my system went from 24v to 48v and ya the wire size is a big difference…love how everything is running using a powmr 5kw and it’s running great so far
Thank you Will! Two extra expenses that were not considered in this video while using 48v battery bank in an RV:
1. 48v-to-12v buck converter for all the 12v loads (fans, lights, fridge, pumps, furnace, etc.)
2. A booster for jump starting the engine battery when needed (I'm guessing most buck converters can't start an engine).
... These plus the 48v alternator I would think could match or exceed the expense of thicker cables for a 12V system, maybe I'm wrong. But I agree, the 48v systems seem better quality.
also shore power battery charger if you want to be able to charge the battery's up when your plugged in! even more cost!
also there is more losses with every part you need to add to the system
3 K plus install for a 48Volt sprinter alternator. Certainly not trivial.
@@Seatown Yes but still cheaper considering how many amps you get
@@NightshiftCustomcomes built into every victron or all in one
@@Seatownall depends on how big it is. If you have a tiny system then it doesn't work
Good info as usual. I've been around the 12 volt stuff a lot more as I play around in the amateur radio space.. but those radios and even the computer and other accessories I run with them all pull less than 40 amps when transmitting. My first experience with a 48 volt system was last year while I was helping my father rebuild his home solar system and it really is fairly simple.. everything plays by the same rules for the most part. This video will certainly help more people get on board!
Running a 2.5kw system on an older 3k Growatt with 10kw batteries, Just wanted to thank you for your videos and time you invest, You were a big part in me becoming inspired to add a small system diy mounts and all to just reduce my use of the grid and supply a few days of backup on gas furnace and a few critical loads....Just a heartfelt thank you.
I’m convinced. If I ever need to build a new system, or start over for the one I have, I’ll go 48V.
My reason for sticking with 12V is: It’s what I already have, replacing it now would be very expensive.
I am just in the middle of building a 100Ah 12V with a 1000W inverter and 400W panels for my small cargo trailer conversion and it is the perfect system as you say. 48V well suited for a larger system
...feel like you are talking directly to me here 😆 I started out with 12v smaller cheaper systems cos I didn't want to destroy anything expensive. Just now after building 4 systems, i'm confident and bored enough with 12v and want to move up to 48v next👍
This is why I watch this channel and it's always my first recommend to anyone wanting to learn about solar.
Good points! I live in a travel trailer with lots of 12VDC stuff, so I have a split system with both 12VDC and 48VDC. For me, I like the redundancy -- if one system fails, the other is ready to rock. Plus, maintaining 12VDC provides a battery for the emergency disconnect system on the trailer brakes.
I'm delighted to see the Victron 100/30 keep popping up. Mine arrived yesterday!
I have used ( VICTRON ) 1 -100/50, 5- 100/30, 1-100/20 , and 1 -75/15 in mine, and my Son's rigs.
Thanks will the 12V system giandell was the one i was eyeing up.
This video will help me do my own system
Thanks for this, Will!
I have a small 12v system, 100ah Power Queen LiFePo4 battery, 60amp LiTime charge controller and two 450 watt panels. When i upgrade eventually, i will go right up to 48v. I also build a few small 12v systems that i give away to less fortunate friends and acquaintances. Thanks for the video Will, you are the man. Greetings from Jamaica.
I have only a small system: charging my phone and laptop.
But it’s honest of you to give us the truth.
Thank you for your work.
Do you have an inverter or just dc-dc with power delivery adapters?
@@AlexanderBelikov I bought an all-in-one before I knew better. And it is an EcoFlow: the ac inverter burned out the first week! The AC charger stopped the 1st month.
The top of their manual essentially says: Their manual blames the user. Other buyers save they have no customer service.
Every idiot like me has to learn the hard way. Ugh.
@@AlexanderBelikov I bought an inverter and solar panels.
I charged it March 2023 and it has not lost any charge, February 2024. It’s still at 80% as I only used it to charge my phone.
Thank you, you have convinced me!
I built my first PV system off of 12V because it was small, and easy to understand (for a first time setting up solar). 600W of PV into a Rich Solar 12V/24V 40A MPPT charge controller and two 12V 100A LiFePO4 in parallel has worked great for the last few years to act as emergency power for my pellet stove and refrigerators, as well as run my Starlink 24/7 during the summer. This is being run through a Giandel 1200W 12V inverter. Performs flawlessly.
Edited to add: Now that I'm getting into HAM radio, I'll keep this 12V system around and maybe expand it a bit to run my HAM setup as well. :-)
I traveled Australia for 12 months in very harsh environment and ran 3x VoltX 200amp, Renogy 2000 + 3000W inverters, Renogy solar Controler. The inverters running fridges 24/7. No issues with this setup at all.
thank you sir, we appreciate you always!
Thank you for this video Will! Helped me decide to buy a LiTime 24v 230ah and a Victron 150/100 controller to be dedicated to my backpack air conditioner on my van. My 48v system will handle everything else👍
Again you provided important information: I did not know about the alternator burn out of deep discharged batteries.
Thank you. 😊
Alternators have really skyrocketed in price.
@@flipper184 oh, inflation!? Corporations are having Record Profit$.
A windfall profit tax can work wonders.
Will, three 100watt solar panels powering batteries and a 12V 2K inverter at the deer camp. We don't use near the 2K watts. That's why I'm just sticking with 12V.
Thanks for your update. Tinkering Geezer still a studying.
Thanks for all your videos,I have learned a bunch.
You're correct that we started out with 12, bc that's all I heard of in off grid living to begin with.
Then, rotted our brains trying to learn all this random electrical stuff all of sudden. Also already have time, money and 12v appliances etc. ... the idea of starting over is... overwhelming. For me, thats why I am where I am with this process myself.
I appreciate this explainer video tho. Thanks
I'm in the same boat. A remote cabin with two 80w 120v panels. Two 12v batteries. It works just fine for the 8 light bulbs and phone charging.
@@johnmca5643 ah yeah I'm a bit farther ahead (unfortunately not as remote...) but with a 320w panel and a 100amh battery- that I got second hand its called a Redstar? No I think its Northstar and the Red model, idk. they're used in industrial situation like for running roadside sinage via solar kind of thing from what I gather.
Anyway, been cruising along for 6 years with it now so, not bad for a used freebie. lol
I have a second 235w panel, but just never got around to really needing it but since the sky is never blue anymore I'll be finally adding it on board.
Good luck out there ✌
I have used Victron solar controller and Inverters for close to 7 yrs - Zero Problems
Very valuable information. Appreciate it. Take care fella.
Im just now going permanently offgrid. Thank you Will. Perfect timing.
I do understand what you are saying about 24V or 48V systems. I built my system listening to you about 4 years ago and now I have all these 12V components, inverters, CC and batteries. It's just hard when money is tight to start all over and scrap the 12V products. I wish there is a way to still use the 12V products. Well don't stop keeping us informed.
yea, thats usually where the problem starts when people start out with 12v systems when everyone will tell them 48v should be the starting point but no one ever finds a justification until they need it and when that time comes, they have already acquired too many 12v components.
I get it. It makes sense. But: All of the RV and all of the motor parts run at 12V. So we need to buck convert 48V to 12V to run the fridge, lights and everything else DC in the RV. Same with the alternator. Do I want an 48V alternator? I have no idea how to charge the trucks starter battery with this. Another buck converter? So - no. The only significant 12V load I have is a 2KW inverter that has no problems running the microwave or coffee maker. Maybe the next RV.
Glad you are not forgetting the beginners. With the newer, larger systems coming out, it's easy to forget that some still need to understand the basic design. Well done as always Will.
I did 12v because those were the first vids of yours I came across 4yrs ago and you taught me how 🤣 but my Vmax batteries and my GoWise inverter are still going strong 💪
So whether you go 12v or 48v really depends on what your primary consumption is. Unless you're doing electric propulsion, there are a lot of good reasons to go 12v in the marine environment.
This is largely because your critical consumers are also 12v. Your VHF, your instrumentation (GPS, speed sensor, depth sounder, wind sensor, etc...) , your engine start, refrigeration, autopilot, lighting (including safety critical things like navigational lighting) and pretty much everything else is all built for 12v nominal. When sticking with a 12v system, all those loads are directly powered by the battery. If you go with a 48VDC system, you need to add a DC:DC converter to the chain to supply the 12V to those safety critical loads. Also, alternator configurations for 48VDC are... interesting to say the least.
The other reason is that Victron doesn't yet make a boost solar controller, and it is so nice having all your components (Inverter, solar controllers, alternator, and BMS all integrated and talking to each other via the Cerbo. It's a set and forget system.
Thank you for providing such informative videos. I have a class A RV and just ordered the Victron inverter and Epoch 460ah battery. Yes I went 12v because I wanted to charge the batteries with the alternator (bought Victron DC/DC charger too). I considered 24 and 48v but chose to stay with 12v since it was my first conversion to lithium. The only thing that I didn’t hear you talk about was a 48v to 12v converter. This is important since all RV DC systems are 12v. I’ll probably go 48v next time or series another battery and go 24v.
to me the only time it would make sense is when you want a large amount of solar panels you would then need to to to a 48v system but for something you you are doing is just fine for 12v and is the much cheaper way to go
Thanks Will ! TAKE CARE..
I’m sold on swapping to 48v!! Thanks 👍🏼
I can answer some of your 12v questions. I have a large motor yacht that runs on 12v. Changing all the 12v panels and fixtures would be very cost prohibitive. My option would be build a 48v system and step it down to 12v at the panel. Next, changing to a 48v alternator is really expensive. A 48v balmar can run over 3k. To put that in prospective, a renogy dc to dc is a couple hundred. And, its not just changing the alternator. Your engine ecu is probably 12v. Your starter is going to be 12v or 24v. Basically what i am say its not as easy to switch to 48v as you make it sound. If you are building a new system from scratch, go for it, 48v is a great way to go. If you already have a large 12v system on you boat or rv, its not that simple.
I have been looking into a 48v system for my motoryacht. The best i have come up with is a step down converter in front of the 12v panels, and a second alternator in 48v to charge the house bank. That would leave the 12v alternator to charge the start banks of my marine diesels.
You hit the nail on the head here. Any decent 48v Alternator is $4,000 +/- installed. Will seems to obsess over the cable gauge - which may cost an extra couple hundred dollars, when he says nothing about the $4k + expense of just the 48v alternator - and all the other 48v to 12v stepping needed for standard equipment.
Sorry Will, 48v for most mobile applications outside of high end motor yachts or rail - only buys you efficiency but at significantly more cost.
I built a 12v off grid system. Works well and was still cheap. As an electrician, I didn't have to sweat wire costs. I have scraps from jobs readily available. My inverter is a 12v/120v 3500 watt. I'm fully aware of the amp potential being 292 amps. I have a PowMr 60 amp MPPT budget charge controller. I have 7, 100 watt renogy mono panels. I have 5 100 a/h Dr prepare lithium iron phosphate batteries. I have a 35 amp solar array discount. I have 5, 100 amp inline circuit breakers. On for each battery. I ran everything through a busbar panel and put a 300 amp in line circuit breaker on my inverter positive. I also put an eco worthy ammeter with a hall effect sensor in this system. I came in just under 4000 dollars. Over time of course. So far, I can't complain.
Sounds expensive for what you get
@hmmm2564 panels were less than 70$ per. The batteries were less than 200$ per, and the charge controller was less than 100$. The battery monitor was less than 100$.
The only things I bought all together where the batteries. My inverter was only 300$. Everything came from Amazon. And I did all this over the course of a year or so. So yes, it was pretty cheap.
I started my 12 vdc system 22 years ago and it has slowly evolved over time. There is no reason to rip everything out to replace it with a 48vdc system.
The best solar decision I made was listening to Will. His channel has been my guiding light - lol.
My story validates everything he says.
When I put my system together a few years ago, 48V parts were scarce and out of stock.
I wanted to go 48V then but had to get something working.
I went 24V as those components were common and I could get up and running B4 Winter.
In process of adding a 48V system currently. Weather has slowed install.
I had to get MUCH bigger wire for battery.
For the tech heads
Current System,
I got the discrete 24V parts Will recommended:
Dual EPever BN4215 MPPT and a Giandel 4K inverter
plus 6 Renogy 320W panels in 2 x 3S .
Initially, 5.1KW 16 Fortune 100 LFP 8S2P with Overkill BMS.
Upgraded battery to 14.3 KW 16 EVE 280A 8S2P w/ JK BMS last spring. Big difference!
Get an active balancer if using the big batteries.
Adding:
14.2KW EG4 PowerPro and existing 3 yr old LV6548.
12 390W Panels in 2x 6S
Wire came with battery and inverter and is sufficient.
Thank you Will you are a great source of information. That said I think a lot of folks want to avoid higher volts for safety reasons. It makes me wonder why 36v all-in-one systems aren't readily available.
While I agree that 48v is much better, 12v can make sense but mostly for legacy reasons. My boat for instance already has all the wiring for 12v, as well as multiple 12v pumps, tv, fridge, lighting, chargers, engine etc. 48v accessories are far less common, and often not available, and everything would be very expensive to change. You can step down of course, but it's just extra expense. It's the same reason vehicle manufactures have stuck with 12v for so long. The 12v ecosystem already exists for all the components , the 48v one doesn't.
Have a good day sir,Watching from the philippines
Love the videos man, really thorough indepth information. Keep up the awesome work brother!
We just upgraded to the EG4 48 volt batteries in our motorhome. With the 6000XP all in one.
You are right, what a difference in efficiency.
Thanks for your videos. You are making a difference. For people looking to do solar. 👍👍
What stepdown did you use? Did you change your alternator to?
@mandmmilling3716 No step-down. There is no connection between the 12V system of our motorhome. As we travel the 2000 watts of solar on the roof. Will recharge our batteries. Which means there is no need to change the alternator.
Thank you for watching our videos and for your comment. We appreciate your support.
@@igowhereimtowed6839 how did you connect the 12v to the 48v?
@mandmmilling3716 We don't, I have 3 sets of batteries. 1 set is used to start the engine and power the chassis components. 2nd set powers all of the 12 volt items in the motorhome. The lights, water pump, and some their refrigerator. The 48 volt batteries power the inverter. Which supplies 120 VAC to the wall outlets, TV, microwave, and the residential refrigerator we use. The inverter charges the batteries from our solar panels. Can charge when we plug into shore power. Also, can charge from a generator. The EG4 6000XP is a all in one. Charge controller, battery charger, and inverter. I have a video of the upgrade we just performed. If you have the time, watch it, which can provide a visual overview. I also have other videos on the 12 volt system we just replaced.
@igowhereimtowed6839 so what charges the 12v batteries to power the 12v items?
12V is fine for MANY use cases. My small camper only needs a couple of amps MAX and that's running tank heaters. So having 4-600 amp hours of 12v batteries is the easiest thing to install.
Always something new to learn
Thank you!
What about circuit breakers and fuses for 48V systems? So many of the common components are rated for 48V max, not the actual running voltage of a 48V (51.2) system. Is there a reliable source for that?
I was going to mention the 12v loads in RV’s but you then added it to the very end of your video 😂. Can you elaborate on the 48v alternator and an example of how that would work? I’ve never heard of that and it would be very interesting to see.
My initial thoughts on why I don’t have a 48v you hit on:
-Not very familiar with 48v
-Have 12v loads in RV
-48v is higher voltage and is more dangerous than 12v which is more forgiving (in my thoughts).
-DC to DC charging from vehicle alternator (mobile application 12v initially appears to be a better option)
-Already have 12v equipment like inverters & chargers that I already spent money on.
its simply not worth for your setup I think he's talking more of the ppl that are off grid not the ppl with rv's
only real reason to go 48v is if you want a big solar panel setup maybe over 1000 watts or need more then 3000 watts of power output
For 48V you can get a buck converter which has decent efficiency for lowering 48V to 12V. However a secondary 48V alternator is not that cheap to buy and install. Also it lowers your mpg a bit.
Frankly if you want more power and your vehicle and array isn’t that big a 24V system is fine. Just the parts are harder to come by in an emergency.
yes 3k+ for a 48v alternator + you still need to get it installed and still have your 12v alt to @@rabbitpumpkin8279
You talked for 1:30 griping about people not using 48v and still using 12v. My opinion is that there are multiple reasons: 1. In an emergency they can use their 12v inverter off their car which is 12v. 2. Most people are unaware of the benefits of 48v systems. 3. They already have multiple DIFFERENT 12v batteries and 12v panels.
Great advice Will, thanks!!
Can you recommend a plug & play buck converter for providing 12v to RV DC lights & appliances?
Will, in Europe Victron is 40% less price than it was in november.
With 900$ you get Multiplus II 5000VA.
holy cow that is cheap!! no way!
Budget 2024! My kind of build 🎈
My off grid 12v system was less than 1,200. My Battle Born 100wh heated lithium battery was 700. Victron Dc to Dc charger with solar charger with Ac/Dc controler works awesome and has now for 5yrs!! I have 3ways of charging and running my equipment!! My truck Alternator, 400w Solar panels, Ac Shore power! Alot of us don’t have that kind of room or that kind of startup money!! I like your videos back when you were first getting started! And said after cutting open a Battle Born Battery with Victron components they were the best!! Now it’s all about another Battle!! I guess big money talks! Please get back to us little people!! And remember you’re being’s!!
Great video. I have invested too much money in my 12V system to start over with 48V. But, if I start replacing my equipment, I will go with 48V. For example, I have three Renogy 12V, 200Ah batteries that can not be connected in series. That was quite an investment. Basically, everything that I have is geared to 12V. What do most people do when they want to upgrade to 48V but they have to sell their 12V equipment? Are there any DC to DC converters that can produce 48V with an input of 12V?
There may be converters that do that, but most likely they will be very low Amperage on the output.
One element that may still motivate folks to use 12V is the perception that it is inherently safer than 48V. Please read what I wrote carefully before reacting. I am not saying they are correct, only that this perception may be one of the factors.
4 hours after your upload,I watched it All the way, and views got about 700 views, keep it comming.
thanks for the video man!
Hi Will. I've been off grid at my ranch for 50 years. First had a car battery and a small used ex military small panel. Then went to real panels (ex PG&E) about 35 years ago. Then to store bought and L16's about 20 years ago, With Outback inverters. I have upgraded the system more and more, now it is a 24V system, with 4 outback inverters. I run my wood shop all on this. I've got about 6kw of panels, and will go up to 10KW in another year, but the problem is now is that the old inverters are all 24V and so hard to really get to use as much energy I can generate with panels. I wish I could go to 48 V, but the inverters can't handle that. I suppose I'll have to get new inverters, even though those old Outbacks are still good. I keep watching your stuff as I need to know what to go to next! You definitely know your stuff. I run 220 and 3 phase in my wood shop, up to 5 hp motors (on 3 phase, with a VFD) I hope to go to a non lead acid, (currently they are the fork lift type of battery). I'd like a 48V (or more?) system, with the newest batteries, inverters and all, without paying $20K. Because of the woodshop energy draw, (and longer periods of rain ) I'd love to have a system that stores something like 1000 AH minimum. And inverters to handle 14,000 watts or so? My system was ~$2400 each inverter, and batteries was another $5K for the two, so it cost about $14K 20 years ago. Served well, but seems like I can get something better now for about the same amount of money. Those old Lead acid I try never to go below 80%. Yeah, I want to go to 48V LI batteries, but need the right inverters too.
Save your old system or sell it. We have some friends who saved their old system (and it's old) and they utilized it elsewhere, but they also have a farm. Aside from that; They reside in Alaska, so they used it for the chicken pen and a couple of other sections within their farm. You may make changes at your off- grid location and you know you have the backup. Or, you can sell it? Check out what other people are selling used solar array packages. Will explained how many companies are out there ripping people off. You may take a small loss, but it's worked well for you throughout the decades. You're at an advantage point either way.
LOL, you sold me on 48 volts!
I love my Li time batteries and Renology charge controller for ultra portable use. I can hook up one or two of the 100ah batteries with a cheap 400w Walmart inverter and have all the power I need for charging phones/laptop while camping,and it doesn't take up much room in my truck. And when I am home, I can put the li time batteries in series to augment my bigger systems if needed. It's a very versatile way to go. For my medium sized systems I run 24v, which again offers some versatility in being able to swap or agment with different batteries in a pinch, and run lights and appliances directly off the batteries instead of having conversion losses. Anything above 3000w though is 48v all the way.
Will, I love your videos. It took a long time to save for it, but I built a portable 48 volt system just as you advised, along with six 415 watt solar panels. It isn't fancy, but it sure provides me with a bit of security to know I'll have power enough to get by if something bad happens. I couldn't have done it without you.
Thank you Will, 48 volt does sound like the way to go😊
Many of us use 12V because you taught us how. That's not a dig or a complaint. It's simply what we know and understand. :)
It's literally the same with 48v but it's cheaper and way more efficient
When sonone says they have a large 12v system I laugh so hard 😂😂
I went 12v as I have a 12v fridge, a 12v tv, all lights and fans in my van are 12v, a 12v radio. I do have 240v microwave but use it for very short time. An off grid home would be a no brainer for 48v though. Love your videos, keep them coming
Thanks will you have shown me lots of information and it's much appreciated six stars
Why do 48V batteries last longer, don't all these batteries basically use the same raw cells? And what does "last longer" mean, calendar age or cycles?
the cells in 48V batteries are typically code compliant and have better cells. you get way more charge cycles with less degradation. just look up the spec sheets. compare a powerpro to some redodo battery or other random chinese 12v
Why 12 volts? Camping.
Thanks Will, great video, very interesting
Great video! Victron quality is exceptional.
Everybody use 12v in boats
In this video you keep trashing 12v systems and you repeatedly ask why would anyone build a 12 v system. I built a 12v system in my van with 2 battleborns an epever tracer bn 40 and 700 watts of solar because of your recommendations. Now your trashing your own recommendations? Just sayin.
Yeah
Technology advances quickly brother....
In a mini van with wet towels and bathing suits, I don’t want to tip toe around shocking myself with a higher voltage system. Will, can I talk about moisture safety, boxes, housing, 460 epoch and inverter big enough to run full size casori air fryer
I agree with you 100%, I have a niche setup I'm planning out. A set up for a small (drag week style) trailer for behind my street strip car. Sticking to 12 volt in it so if I have charging issues in my car I can just tie off the battery bank, or if I have trailer wiring issues I can tie off the bank. Very niche set up for me though, I'd usually recommend atleast going 24 volt if not 48
Ok, I have been watching you for about 5 + years. thank you for all of your videos, yes I have built a 12v system to run my ham radio's. 2 - 400 watt solar panels systems 2 charge controlers, 4 100 ah battteries to run muliple radios.
I want to go off grid in the future for my home then I hope to do that with 48v. your videos have inspierd me to expand. baby steps. I live in WA state so the sun is stingy. LOL.
Again thank you for your vids and that is why I have a 12v system for the ease of running the equipment
I have been looking a the eg4 18k and batteries but crap! spendy lol