Firstly, Mary you are brilliant as always and explain things so very well 👏 🥰 And Billy you did phenomenal! Love love love this episode, thank you ALL for this so much. Shunning IS a bullying and devastating act of cruelty. I find it fascinating how Holdeman do not shun while out in a worldly setting such as sitting separately at a resteraunt, because they do not want the worldly to see how they bully people they shun and treat them disproportionately. Bullying people isn't love nor will it ever be!!!! I think my most lonely moment was when I knew the expelling was done and I was now shunned, even by the very few people I genuinely loved, adored & looked up to. I felt completely abandoned, worthless, alone, helpless, hopeless, heartbroken, shattered. But even all those words cannot explain the feeling of it, perhaps no words can. It was simply beyond devastating.
Thank you Hannah for sharing your experiences and thoughts about being shunned. It's such an insidious action when it's mandated and it leaves people with so many things to deal with.
In my experience, shunning can make a person miss being accepted by the group, but it doesn’t draw one to the person of Jesus because it is not in his character to treat people this way. He taught to go in and among the lost and to love them.
1:10:30 Billy; "Like we just decided like this is the point or for some reason 1955 is like oh, that's the peak of fashion for righteous people we're gonna stick there" 😂🤣😂 Bahahaha you're hilarious 😂😂😂
Actually those things did happen in Europe (Before the conservatives emigrated to America, and the liberals remained and assimilated). Shunning was a huge divisive issue which splintered the Dutch Mennonites, and led to the Amish/Swiss Brethren split. I also totally understand that shunning has sometimes been abused, but groups that shun are applying literally verses about church discipline from Paul's epistles. It seems that the original intent when this doctrine was formulated was primarily to be faithful to their understanding of the Bible, and not because of hate.
Do you often encourage people to bully others? Your comment infer's that you might do exactly that, since it reads as you showing a tolerance and acceptance for shunning. Cruelty to others is NEVER to be tolerated, period. The only correct amount of shunning is ZERO. I cannot imagine ordering my KIDS to bully other kids or adults, that would literally be insane and make me a horrible person.
@Kneißle It would appear that you stand for victims being silenced instead of speaking out about their own knowledge, experiences and factual information. Speaking up & telling the truth is only defined as 'slander' by those who wish us to be silent.
@@Kneißle have you ever met condescending - ? This part. You are defending use of a mandated tool that tears apart families and communities - even communities who proclaim themselves to be loving. Is it love to then come pretend we just don't know the *real* issue instead of addressing the actual issue?
@@themisfitamish can we agree that, so long as it isn't weaponized, the avoidance is based on a good faith attempt by various Christian groups to apply verses like Matt 18:17 (treat them as an ostracized class) , and 1 Cor. 5:11 " don't eat with them" , and 1 Cor. 5:7-8 "purging out infectious yeast" , etc. In fairness, if a person is Christian, they do need to figure out what is being asked of them by the Bible; they can't just randomly pick and choose what they want; and can we fault them for that?
@@Kneißlethe ironic thing is this verse says to treat them as a pagan or a tax collector. And who did Jesus call to be one of his disciples? Matthew, a tax collector. Jesus loved him in spite of who he was and chose to have a deep and intimate relationship with him instead of shunning him. When in doubt, always follow the life of Jesus and the example He set for us
Firstly, Mary you are brilliant as always and explain things so very well 👏 🥰 And Billy you did phenomenal! Love love love this episode, thank you ALL for this so much.
Shunning IS a bullying and devastating act of cruelty.
I find it fascinating how Holdeman do not shun while out in a worldly setting such as sitting separately at a resteraunt, because they do not want the worldly to see how they bully people they shun and treat them disproportionately. Bullying people isn't love nor will it ever be!!!!
I think my most lonely moment was when I knew the expelling was done and I was now shunned, even by the very few people I genuinely loved, adored & looked up to. I felt completely abandoned, worthless, alone, helpless, hopeless, heartbroken, shattered. But even all those words cannot explain the feeling of it, perhaps no words can. It was simply beyond devastating.
Thank you Hannah for sharing your experiences and thoughts about being shunned. It's such an insidious action when it's mandated and it leaves people with so many things to deal with.
In my experience, shunning can make a person miss being accepted by the group, but it doesn’t draw one to the person of Jesus because it is not in his character to treat people this way. He taught to go in and among the lost and to love them.
1:10:30 Billy;
"Like we just decided like this is the point or for some reason 1955 is like oh, that's the peak of fashion for righteous people we're gonna stick there" 😂🤣😂
Bahahaha you're hilarious 😂😂😂
He's so right though! Many of us don't want to go back there either.
What about when Billy says "a delicate brainwashing"
@@themisfitamish 🤣😂
Actually those things did happen in Europe (Before the conservatives emigrated to America, and the liberals remained and assimilated). Shunning was a huge divisive issue which splintered the Dutch Mennonites, and led to the Amish/Swiss Brethren split. I also totally understand that shunning has sometimes been abused, but groups that shun are applying literally verses about church discipline from Paul's epistles. It seems that the original intent when this doctrine was formulated was primarily to be faithful to their understanding of the Bible, and not because of hate.
Do you often encourage people to bully others? Your comment infer's that you might do exactly that, since it reads as you showing a tolerance and acceptance for shunning. Cruelty to others is NEVER to be tolerated, period. The only correct amount of shunning is ZERO. I cannot imagine ordering my KIDS to bully other kids or adults, that would literally be insane and make me a horrible person.
@Kneißle It would appear that you stand for victims being silenced instead of speaking out about their own knowledge, experiences and factual information. Speaking up & telling the truth is only defined as 'slander' by those who wish us to be silent.
@@Kneißle have you ever met condescending - ? This part.
You are defending use of a mandated tool that tears apart families and communities - even communities who proclaim themselves to be loving. Is it love to then come pretend we just don't know the *real* issue instead of addressing the actual issue?
@@themisfitamish can we agree that, so long as it isn't weaponized, the avoidance is based on a good faith attempt by various Christian groups to apply verses like Matt 18:17 (treat them as an ostracized class) , and 1 Cor. 5:11 " don't eat with them" , and 1 Cor. 5:7-8 "purging out infectious yeast" , etc. In fairness, if a person is Christian, they do need to figure out what is being asked of them by the Bible; they can't just randomly pick and choose what they want; and can we fault them for that?
@@Kneißlethe ironic thing is this verse says to treat them as a pagan or a tax collector. And who did Jesus call to be one of his disciples? Matthew, a tax collector. Jesus loved him in spite of who he was and chose to have a deep and intimate relationship with him instead of shunning him. When in doubt, always follow the life of Jesus and the example He set for us