Stellar Phono Circuit explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2024
- PS Audio engineer Darren Myers shares the secrets of design in the new Stellar Phono Stage, a 700 part all discrete all FET design that's never been attempted before. Extraordinary noise levels and remarkable sound quality is in store for vinyl lovers. Find out how it was done.
Hats off to Paul for having the guts to let us see inside his company and trust his talented employees. I hope other CEOs are understanding why this is so important! We will all benefit from this practice.
The excitement of hearing a good phono preamp is just amazing. There is a sense of being there and the system getting out of the way of the music. It’s great that the Stellar has that experience baked in.
Bravo Darren!! even though I don't understand much of that, I'm glad to see more of these extended educational type videos as is everybody else here in the comments section. We all love you and we want more!!!
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Sure bravo. That’s a talent to sell 50c 5532 opamp for a couple of hundreds.
@@sc0or Ha, thats funny, it has like 1500 parts in it and it sells for thousands. Billionair's can buy it, Paul xan get richer and still have a desire to do dailly video's! It all works out im the end!!!
I am not into vinyl, however this presentation made me prytty excited. :) Great job Darren.
I love you Darren Myers. I can’t wait to get my hands on one of these. 😭 I too am a 20 year old college kid. It seems our timelines are aligning.
I wish Darren the best with this project. He is not a great public speaker but his understanding of the subject is worth the listen. I can't afford this but maybe I will get a chance to hear it. The idea of building a great circuit BEFORE the feed back sounds like a great way to design. This was required in tube design as loads of feedback wasn't available. The output of a phono cartridge with noise astounded me with regard to both level and frequency, a very difficult source.Well done Darren
Paul, you are lucky to have found Darren, he really knows his stuff. Having come from an Engineering background, I confess that we usually get hung up on the textbook approach and forget that the end goal is more than just the numbers.
These PS Audio videos feel like when you were about 10 years old and found someone's hidden stash of special magazines.
Stereophile, HiFi News....... etc. etc......... ;0)
@@russputin6294 Ahhhh the memories of getting HiFi News once a month. 25 years goes by exponentially.
Indeed a stellar presentation!
can't wait! exciting, and congrats on the great work!
I know nuts about op amps in phono stages, but hearing him explain what he's trying to achieve I'm already sold !
your findings remind me of dan d'agostino's work.. looking forward to great things from you. Take the baton and make it happen for us genXers and millennials!
Very great presentation! 👍
In the last few year PS Audio has made a bee line to be among the best while being very approachable as a company.
What vinyl lover wouldn't be interested in this, very insightful on the engineering side of things.
Awesome presentation. Im not an analog expert, but I can't help but notice the passive (open loop) RIAA curve worked well with a circuit designed first and foremost for open loop perfection. Sounds about right.
Excellent work.
I get it, the ticks and pops, it's like having a crackling fire in the fireplace on a cold winter evening while listening to your vinyl. After a while you can get the ability to filter out the sound of the fireplace with your ear.
I really want one of those Stellar Phono Preamplifiers
WOW! This is kind of cool. Like " The circle closes in the end! " PS Audio started with a Phonostage, and after 50 Years, Darren creates the "next Level" Phono Stage for less money we assume! (OK, not exactly 50 Years... but close to) .
Does this Stellar Phono Stage offer setting adjustments for MM cartridges? They're not on the rear panel. I only see knobs to adjust the MC settings. Thanks!
This man might not be the best presenter but he sure knows what he’s doing! Still above my pricepoint, but he makes me curious what that one note sound is.
I wished he would use the term "First Note" instead of One Note....... That's already a derogatory phrase to describe a poor speaker or subwoofer as having "one note bass".....
Great presentation and I am looking forward to the release of this product. I am relatively new vinyl hobbyists and I am looking for my "one note" moment. (I smell a great marketing opportunity... or at least a cool tee-shirt). Cheers! 😁👍🔊🎶
Keep Rocking!
Thanks for sharing!
What do you think of NE5534 Op-Amp, which common to us today
Very good insights and hard work. It's really hard to get -150db noise, especially with out the chassis??
Great to have younger designers to come in, esp to work on phono stage.
I was spending time to work on // bipolar as well as Fet single stage amp, with works on p supply. But after a while just faded out, to enjoy op amps implementation with more predictable outcomes...
But the biggest factor is the community and customers demand that make it all possible, which make amateur like me to admire!
Other than that, this man have good approach and way of thinking. thumbs up!!
Yes Analogue 'sounds right' well put.
I'm very happy with my Parasound JC3..... but they have my attention! I would like more loading and gain option than the JC3 has, and lower noise. I like Darren's passion, but like many engineers, he doesn't dumb down explanations very well... that's fine. I'd prefer he just stay in his zone. Paul is the rare breed that can communicate well on a high level, and also to the average person.
@24:20 - 700 parts? That doesn't sound efficient to me. Can someone tell me why more components means better in this case? I tore into an old MELOS super basic stereo phone stage the other day and it performs excellent and has around 40 parts in a tiny metal case 4" x 3". Big contrast here. I tested it for noise and there was none. There was no cross talk.
Did you find that with open loop compensation the transient response was improved causing better separation of the signal vs surface noise ?
Paul i have a ported and a sealed 10" powered sub woofers the sealed is a infinity. The ported is a sony can i use both together mike from baltimore md
Very interesting. QUESTION: Hi Paul, I am just curious to know if you are using or is there any such thing as reference-vinyl-records with tones / levels for testing phono preamps ?
Very informative and educational. I am a uk pensioner so I'm unlikely to be able to afford one but it's nice to dream.
Hope your fortunes climb so some of your dreams come to fruition. Cheers from Canada!
I see my head in the front row and I don't remember being there!
Darren looks down a lot, right into the mic as he talks. That's why it gets "hot". Don't feel bad Paul. Yell at Darren.
It's the audio technician, not the talkers fault. They might have underestimated how loud he was going to talk. But if you have no compressor or limiter your normal signal top should be between -12 and -18dB. If you have compression and limiter you can record at about -6dB. Even with -18dB, the noise floor of the mike is normally in the -70dB to -90dB range.
Zu with sprout! How is the combo?
Good!
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio 30 day trial also?
V interesting and my question is (really to the whole hifi industry): why, when no sane person would run anything but a karaoke mic unbalanced, is not use of balanced inputs for phono considered one of the more important design factors?
I thought that it was pretty much common knowledge that passive RIAA was superior to feedback derived RIAA. I prefer circuits with very linear transfer functions and NO feedback. I've had some very nice phono preamps but the Counterpoint SA 5.1 with directly grounded 6DJ8 cathodes, zero feedback and passive RIAA is my go to unit for liveliness and open sound. It's not the quietest, and the specs guys would say that it has poor distortion specs, but it plays MUSIC very well, connected to a silver wire step up transformer and a low output moving coil.
Just bought the phonoconverter that I use as my phonostage. Would have waited if I had known. 😳
Thanks for the video, love it. Question, I have an external phono RIAA pre amp and I hooked turntable to its ground point , now do you recommend to earth it better like use one of my power conditioning ground point? Is it better to ground to the chassis “common ground “of a preamp or a earth ground of a power conditioner? Thanks
LD Blake so its better to ground to earth on my power conditioner ? I have it ground to external phono riaa pre amp right now
Because a 3 blade terminal is earth ground from my power conditioner ground point
LD Blake yes I understand... but I don’t have a ground point on my main amp u see
Hey sir.... i don’t think you understand my situation here , maybe your main amp has a grounding point but I don’t lol ,so all I have is 2 options either to the external pre amp or the earth ground via power conditioner u see
LD Blake ok I can, but you don’t think earth ground is better then grounding together? Thanks
Really enjoying this talk! It makes me wonder tho, since this is FET based, are we talking JFET? MosFET? both? I only ask since JFETs can be such a nightmare sourcing being that most are obselete and they have such a crazy parameter spread. And to add with all that many are fairly low gain. But....I love them anyway and am curious if they made it in the design.
My question was answered, at least partially, later in the video. TO-220 package MOSFET in the output stage of the discrete opamp design biased into class A. Very cool.
Oh my God... Darren, put a 600 ohm LCR RIAA in that puppy and you'll be listening to the voice of angels.
So now after he explained very good what this product makes so special
I need to see the schematic !!
Openloop gain heavily improves by using parallel input transistors. But which jfets are used? They are difficult to get if not used in HF fields and if you want to match them you need even more of them. Bias into class A is great + high openloop + modest closedloop feedback very nice and indeed good design. ...From the technical Point of view a very good approach
Thanks Myers for this entertaining talk...BUT where are all the ladies :'(
Maybe the 700+ parts is to justify a $2K pricetag? It seems to me there's no other rationale for that sort of over-engineering exercise. Then you feed the output into a Sprout, which means the speakers are driven by an off-the-shelf Class D chip from ICEPower. Oh well, I suppose that will make sense to somebody, somewhere...
@LD Blake -- I for one love modern Class D amplification. IMO the engineers at those chip companies know exactly what they're doing and my tiny Class D amps -- one for my home stereo and another for my electric guitars -- are every bit as good as the much bigger and far more expensive equipment they replaced, at least AFAICT.
@LD Blake -- Hear, hear! My home stereo amp cost me about the same $$$, is based on two of the same surprisingly good TI chips but is a tad larger, with one chip for the left and right channels and a second wired in (P?)BTL mode as a dedicated channel for a passive subwoofer. It has a single logic-based power/input switching pushbutton with a choice of two line-level inputs -- one 3.5mm stereo phone jack and one of the usual pair of RCA jacks -- or a Bluetooth circuit that only rarely gets used here. My only gripe is with the too-high low-pass frequency of the subwoofer channel, and that was made front panel adjustable in the latest version of the product, which costs only about $10 more.
@LD Blake -- My little wonder replaced a massive (and very good) 100WPC 1980s vintage JVC integrated amp when I retired and became an apartment dweller. Given appropriate speaker choices, IMO this sort of amp is more than enough for all but largest listening rooms, audiophile delusions to the contrary notwithstanding.
You guys should get a Sound Devices MixPre as they have analog input limiters to prevent overload and use your lav mics on that.
Forgive my ignorance, but is the number of components anything to do with sound quality? Sounds very complicated if it breaks.
In this case the amount of parts is large just because its fully discrete, instead of using of the shelf opamps as an example. The amount of parts has nothing to do with quality, more or less components really mean nothing.
I was asking the question because this video, and the narrative above, seems to make a big play on the number of components. Were I marketing this product I think I'd underplay that aspect. Rather than trying to impress us with the volume of components, the better approach is to explain what they do to justify their existence.
@LD Blake I have to say not confidence inducing. There is some serious competition at the quoted price point and I also got the feeling it was all a bit vague in terms of the design rationale. That said, designers have to start somewhere and of course PS Audio wouldn't be putting their name to something that harmed their strong reputation.
@LD Blake I don't agree with that analysis. There's a hierachy to phono stages as there is with every piece of kit.
@LD Blake -- While that little Behringer is probably just fine for 99+% of vinyl enthusiasts (definitely including PS Audio Sprout owners) and its THD is more than adequate considering what comes out of phono carts and what humans can actually hear, that "68 dBu @ 0 dBu, A-weighted" S/N seems like it could easily be improved upon with very little impact on the cost.
You can use fet based op-amp.
What are the speakers in this set up?
Those are Zu Audio speakers.
The different models look similar so I can't tell you which model they are.
Zu's are very efficient.... Therefore a good match with the little PS audio Sprout integrated amplifier that is sitting between the turntable and the laptop.
Get that guy a new pair of blue jeans!
I wish the camera was a little higher. Or that someone drew pictures on those heads.
The infinity new in the box they both sound good the sony better with movies the infinity music
11:20 wtf? do you take noise into consideration?
The 0.00008% you quoted is thd+n not thd it self. Look at other figures. Jesus.
Also, at 1khz the Aol is only 80db.
The open loop distortion of opa2134 should be around 0.5%
@John,Paul is 99% true and 1%
humor! and he fudges that and slips in more than that at times.
I have zero ability to understand any of this, I can only suspect there might be humor in Darren's presentation, as he's pretty close to that Paul McGowan Daily.
👍👍👍👍👍
How ridiculous.
The number of parts in any component should be as few as possible to get the job done.
A very good phono stage can be made with less than 100 parts, including the power supply.
If I was running an audio company and one of my engineers proposed a design using seven hundred,
he would be looking for a new job the next morning.
That explains why you don't have your own company I assume you know more than anyone else
Sometimes very good is not good enough.
Sorry, but you lost me at this "budget" ( ??? / Expensive !!! ) "price point"' ... 'nuff said.
?? What do you mean with your Comment? I am from Austria, and maybe i misunderstand here something.... Or do you think this Phonostage is expensive?
Yeah I like phono better than stereo
5532 op-amps are awful sounding. 5535's sound great.
How come, people that make audio equipment (Ok, it's home audio, not broadcast)can´t make good recording of one man's voice. There is no simpler thing to do.
Next. All amps that use monolithic (chip) OP amps sound the same?? WTF??
Discrete OP amp is better? It is still OP amp, by definition, circuit with a lot of open loop gain that uses feedback to control amount of desired gain, isn't it? Ok , you can control open loop gain in discrete stage, and avoid global feedback of the stage.
Next, in discrete design you have much more problems with individual parts selection, thermal stability and so on.
Spell check Paul
I really tried... Just nope
you need to learn how to FIX distorted Audio
Yeah sorry but he's talkin BS, that power supply decoupling with a high ESR comment at the end is one of many great BS answers, he would be correct if you could connect at the point of the effective ESR resistor and the pure capacitance but you can't. You can decouple but that's now you do it. Most of the other stuff he said was about as accurate. He wouldn't last a second at instrumentation front end design.. where you can't BS like this. Ahh... the sad state of "high end audio". Enjoy the Placebo effect.
Do you have idea of crc clc filtering?
Also he is doing the correct thing in general in this.
with the worst speakers imaginable, Zu`s. says everything about PSaudio if they made that decision.
Talking head
Worst speaker ever....is he high? Does he have a hangover? Is he bored? Seriously, get someone that has the will to live on screen, and give this guy a hug.
He's an engineer. Dumbass.
I totally disagree. He talks like an Engineer, not like a salesman: and that is exactly what I would look for to explain a preamp.
@@juliaset751 -- Make no mistake about it, this talk was a sales job directed at the technically naive, deep-pocketed audiophile market.