AUTISM- Why Proud Family Louder and Prouder STILL sucks...sorry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- This episode was a step in the right direction when it comes to representing and discussing Autism in animated media, but did it do enough? Here are my thoughts on 'Proud Family Louder and Prouder, Bebe'.
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How do you think this episode handled Autism? Do you think I said enough? Do you want me to talk about other episodes from this show other than 'End of Innocence' and 'Bebe'?
Without bothering to go back and edit my previous comments, I do want to acknowledge that you actually covered some of what I was talking about. Thank you for acknowledging the Looney Tunes level of absurdity that this show uses for its comedy, and thank you for acknowledging that Oscar and Trudy were not considering their daughter as much as they should have. I think my points still stand within the context of the series, but there is always room for improvement. I do hope the creative team is watching these conversations.
It was alright for the season it could've been a 2 parter easily. the first part could be about Bebe getting into fun places and perhaps philanderizing the disease a bit and the 2nd part could be the reality of how the family reacted about it. It could've included Cece and the Trudy 2. The first episode could've ended with the family visiting Dr. Pain and Oscar could've taken offense thinking that they were disparaging Bebe's ability and even had a retrospective of how his childhood was perhaps having grown up undiagnosed with autism. That's how they did it in a bunch of Childhood learning disability episodes. I've even had moments like that with my father where he's thought he could've been diagnosed with ADHD when he was younger, if born later. My parents went through pains to get an accurate diagnosis when I was younger; even taking me to an institute to have my brain scanned and they could have tried reaching for second opinions.
Making your kids babysit their other kids is called "Parentification" and its is considered child abuse upon penny, she could have had CPS called on her parents but thats an extreme I know her as a character would never do or threaten to do but she can stand up to her parents and say no. Her siblings are NOT HER KIDS
You suck I love that show
Definitely try End of Innocence. But I am also hoping you look into the episode about the taking down the statue.
Every time Maya talks, I just want to say, "Shut up, Maya". For an "activist" she does more talking than doing.
All Bark But No Bite
A lot of talking, not much doing? Nah sounds like a modern activist to me. Very accurate.
@@NomastiAfricanWarlord well, people like you wouldn’t know because you only care when an “activist” is being cringe so you can make fun of them and have a reason to not like them.
Lmao ikr
@@NomastiAfricanWarlordSAME 😆
I’m glad that autism is being taught more.Especially in kid shows because usually it takes people well into adulthood to find out that they’re autistic.
My mom refuses to believe that I might be autistic because I don’t “act or look autistic”
@@therealopaartist ouch. Sorry to hear that.
Yeah I just figured out I’m autistic and I’m 18
Same except it's my brother in law whom I live with. (My sister and him are letting me stay with them for mow)
I’ve always known I was autistic since but my mom refused to get me diagnosed as a child. Due to stigma and whatnot. I’m 22 and I’ve finally gotten an official diagnosis
If I remember correctly, the original Proud Family showed paraplegics as human, by showing they can also be pretty terrible people. Then again, if these groups of people aren't represented in a positive light 24/7, it can be viewed as problematic, even if it's just to humanize the groups. I'm saying this as someone who went to a high school that had a Special Ed class that had kids/teens with a range of disabilities. Nobody treated them differently, but they did have their good times like making kids laugh with their antics as well as their bad times when they'd be having meltdowns. It's more important to show them as human, than as glamorized heroes with no faults. I'm looking at The Predator for deciding to make their autistic lead child be a walking computer, rather than a person with problems they have to work through.
It kind of reminds me of "Extra Large Medium" from Family Guy. Disabled people are human, and just like anyone else, they are capable of being jerks.
@@TeamFriendship8600 Exactly and even Family Guy had the disabled person in question be okay with the jokes at her expense, showing she could take jokes as well.
Yeah, one of my friends was in special Ed and he knew some real assholes in there. This one kid was always rough with him and in senior year he actually knocked him down and this legit pissed me off when I finally heard about it.
@@AmaryInkawult Really? That sucks, but hopefully the douche got in trouble for picking on him.
That's just what I was going to say! I really liked that episode because it showed that people with disabilities aren't happy and nice all the time, there's a huge handful that can be jerks.
After re-watching this, I find it odd that Cici is dressed normal and fine but Bebe who has autism is dressed oddly with a cape and undone pants. Why is is it that kids with autism in media have to dress “weird” compared to others???? I don’t have autism, but I do have ADHD and I don’t dress like Harper from Wizards of Waverly Place on a daily basis.
EDIT: I am getting WAY too many people in my comments saying "I have autism/adhd and I don't dress weird". Please understand guys. I am not talking about real life people who have real life neurodivergencies. I am talking about how the MEDIA decides to depict FICTIONAL characters and how almost every time they want to portray a character as neurodivergant. They make this FICTIONAL character dress oddly and out of place compared to everyone else in the show. This is not about you, me, or anyone real living nonfictional person. This is about a fictional character whose wardrobe and whole identity is decided by a whole meeting room full of people who decide how to show the fake person is neurodivergent. They always go with "dress out of place".
I mean, Austic people can and do dress oddly (sensory issues, stimming, fixating on certain clothing items) HOWEVER it is a bit of a weird and uncomfortable stereotype in media.
Maybe Bebe doesn't let his pants be buttoned; I haven't watched the show so IDK though; But for the cape thing, yeah IDK- The creators are also relying on stereotypes and modern portrayals for their sources too-
@@CpWiser10 (took a month to notice I actually got replies here) yeah, the main point I was trying to get across is that It just sucks that "weird clothes" in media just automatically implies disorder. I do agree that people can have clothing issues like you mentioned though. I just wish it wasn't so heavily used in media as a stereotype.
@@myanimeworld149 YEAH you absolutely hit the nail on the head
Well I understand at least the cape cuz my autistic brother at a yound age had a Robin cape he just had to wear everywhere.
However on the other hand at a young age I wanted to wear nothing but big frilly tutus and I'm not on the spectrum. It could rlly just be a kid thing and indeed unfortunate that that such designs are only for autistic kids. For the kid's outfit fits something I'd wear than my brother.
A better thing would be the kid wanting to wear the same outfit (or set of favorite outfits) over and over again, perhaps getting upset if introduced to something of new fabric or shape.
Even in the original Proud Family, Oscar and Trudy CONSTANTLY made Penny babysit whether she had plans or not.
True, felt bad for Penny everytime her parents made her babysit
Tbh parents that do this don't even need to have children to begin with
"I'm an insufferable SJW stereotype. I am entitled to Privilege" ~ Maya (if the writers were honest)
I'm sure she and John Redcorn would have a lot to talk about with each other.
Social Justice Warriors are Fucking Shammy Justice Warriors!
@@shannonmcelroy8454 LOL
She really is. I thought she was kind of a bitch from the start, I saw episode 1 way before i saw anything else in the series (watched it and got distracted, went back months later and started again from ep 1) and even then I found her insufferable and thought she'd end up an antagonist and thought we were supposed to root against her. Then i read a bit about some of the episodes before i got past episode 1 and when i found out she had gay interracial adopted parents I got a pit in my stomach because I knew she'd be written like we should be rooting for her but with her personality I knew that wasnt going to happen in reality. She's too woke for the right wing conservative types, too bitchy for the left wing progressives, and too preachy for either. It's almost impressive how she's united pretty much everyone against her.
“SJW” it’s 2023.
I would like to see an episode where Maya gets a taste of her own medicine and realizes that what she been doing is all wrong with being an activist
Sadly I don't recall ever seeing such a thing.
@@theanimeunderworld8338 I'm just saying that I would like to see it,regardless if they did or did not
It happened with Lisa in some old Simpsons episodes.
As magical as that would be, that would mean the writers would have to present Maya as in the wrong, and that's something the writers have no intentions of doing, because that would me they would have to admit all the stuff they believe(and by proxy all the stuff they make Maya preach) is wrong, and we can't have that
@@Hektols Back when the Simpsons were still a good show.
As an autistic, this episode felt like an obligation more than anything, esp since literally all the other recent Disney channel cartoons have some kind of neurodiverse representation (granted for Amphibia it was initially unintentional but they for sure leaned into it). All of which are much better than this, not even mentioning that its incredibly rare for a baby to be diagnosed with autism.
at that age, we are often the more emphatic with our basic needs cries, and will establish paralell play way before neurotypicals, we can also, push away from caretakes as the sensory experience of being touched can trigger overloading, for the episode they embraced the outward sensory experiences for pain not matching expected reactions, and eloping, and climbing, for the other twin, we see the accelerated side of things, as she tested in high percentiles, and will babble in full sentences. all the crap around eye contact is also emergent as soon as resarechers can get babies to track faces. we're less focused on where the emotional cues come from. we'll go looking for things, over people, many times.
Can confirm as someone as a transmasc (AFAB) that got diagnosed at two years old. Most, if not all of my friends who are autistic weren't even diagnosed until they were about 4 - 7 years old (to add it off they're all AMAB, and diagnosis rate for them is higher than the AFAB counterpart, so you're more likely to find a 13 year old boy diagnosed at age two compared to a 13 year old girl since it shows diffrently).
No it's not be so fr
@@ayasukitIt is, autism when it's not the supposed "mild levels" is diagnosed in early childhood.
@@juanmanuelmoramontes3883 well bebe don't got 'mild' autism. And, just say level one or low support needs next time damn
From what I can see, there could have been so many more ways to depict Bebe's Autism. Struggling to get him to give up the pacifier long past the time other kids his age would have, aversion to certain aspects of his clothes, not wanting his hair touched, outright refusing certain foods...there's so much right there that would make more sense and be more in line with what a lot of Autistic people relate to.
It also begs the question, If Bebe is Autisitc, what about Cece? Or Penny? Autism is largely genetic, if your kid is autistic, at least one of the parents is as well, siblings too... that would mean the proud family parents, at least one has to be undiagnosed autistic as well. I would have liked if the show had handled the topic better, maybe entertained that a little as it kinda singled out bebe and didn't bring up the possibility for CeCe, or Penny, or the parents, also being autistic.
@@unicornplayswhat I think that they missed an opportunity to show how female and male autistic people may present differently. It's why so many girls go undiagnosed for so much longer.
I know Autism is a spectrum, but from the clips I saw, Bebe seems to play and interact with his twin and other people fine which is a bit... odd. Usually, one of the first signs of autism in a child is the fact that they do not interact or play with others at a level they should at their age. I mean, it is not the only sign, but it is one of biggest and first signs for a child his age.
@unicornplayswhat7580 My brother is autistic but my parents aren't, and I'm not. Are you sure that's always the case?
I just know that autism is genetic and it is highly heritable. I'm not saying all siblings of autistic kids are autistic, though it is much more likely they are if their sibling or parent is and its very possible one of your parents are autistic and they just dont realize it. Autistic traits seem normal to autists and it looks different for everyone because it is a spectrum @@rosykindbunny1313
Honestly, after the end of innocence (colorism episode), I'm convinced that the writers don't know what they're doing.
That or they just have too many writers working on each episode, cause they feel like multiple writers stretching the plot in their own directions, leaving the episodes with whiplash plots.
They know exactly what they're doing.
Dude, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were parodying whatever issue they got involved with.
If I was black, I’d be embarrassed over the whole show. As an autistic person, I already feel that way about big bang theory and young Sheldon.
@@azazelgrigori9244 No, it's not at all a parody, they actually hate white people. And don't say things like "if I were black" brother, you're white, be proud of it. Nobody else matters dude.
Oh they know what they are doing. And its gonna cause a second age of segregation.
There's a point where "it's a cartoon, it's meant to be exaggerated" stops being an excuse, namely when it's trying to portray real life issues in a realistic manner, you can't be over the top insanity one moment and genuine portrayals the next unless you have insanely good writers(*cof cof* early Simpsons)
It’s called “mood whiplash.” That can be done well when it’s set up like in shows as Morel Orel or F is For Family. But, the writers on this show don’t know how to do that.
So far Rise of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, made a character who is on the spectrum but he's accepted in his family. It's Donnatello, a lot of people within the spectrum can relate to him and they sometimes envy his relationship with his brothers because they don't see him as a burden.
I didn't connect the dots at first, but I'm definitely seeing it. Maybe THAT'S why Donnie's my favorite in ROTTMNT... I mean besides the deadpan snarkiness that just kills me XD
EYYYYYY ROTTMNT FAN IN THE WILD
@@katanakiwi8832 YEAHH!
I haven't actually seen this ep but I kind of want to point out that this episode seems to be making this about everyone except the autistic person. I know Bebe is a toddler but at the same time I'm a bit sick of "let's talk about how this disability affects the family." We have plenty of those. We don't have many about the autistic person or even autistic adults. (Though maybe there was one and Maddie just didn't mention it but I doubt it.) Maddie points out that it seems to focus on Oscar's feelings on the subject and we always tend to see that.
That's a good point.
They must've asked autism speaks for guidance
Monster high might have actually handled that well with the character twyla in the latest episode of the G3 series it introduced the character twyla and she just straight up says my name is twyla and I’m autistic key word here she’s says she’s autistic and not she has autism and that she doesn’t like loud sounds the episode even shows her occasionally fidgeting with her bracelet and a cool fact Twyla’s voice actress is autistic so yeah I think monster high did it well with introducing a autistic character
I think this can be an okay view of autism for (1) episode. I do hope going forward there is more emphasis on Bebe though. And while I agree there are many episodes of many shows focusing on the experiences of the family. I want you to stop and think about how many of these episodes involved BLACK/POC families. Because the culture and dynamics are very different here.
I agree, but I think what makes this focus [on the family] different is that people tend to react exactly like Oscar did & I think his reaction is a lot more realistic than most. In other media, the family is written to be fully understanding of the idea, or thought, of autism, whereas Oscar was not. I mean, Oscar has always been an impulsive character- says the first thing that comes to mind & he’s abrasive with it. so again, I do agree that more focus needs to be on the person with autism, but I do like this approach.
On the subject of autism in an animated show I believe done right is the Rise of the TMNT tv show. Donatello (my favorite turtle always has and always will be) in that show is on the spectrum but is never outright said. Different episodes throughout the series shows his sensory issues like physical touching. His brothers are able to come to compromises by his mechanical hands and touching him in dire circumstances. One scene in the film was Raph had to catch Donnie and Mikey from falling to their death, and Raph states to Donnie that he wasn’t forcing a hug but rather rescuing him.
I mean true, but I'll always find it weird when they incorporate human based issues onto the mutant turtle men. I don't think turtles can have autism (feel free to correct me as I love constructive criticism), however these turtles also somehow have braces, glasses, and much more in recent variations, that it's kinda hard to take seriously when it just brings up a ton of questions, especially about how the mutant turtles work.
@@michaelfireheart8300that’s fair. I think having autism for turtles make sense in the way they are half human since the mutagen in the latest series is a bonding agent creating a new being from combing two different dna. So I can see a crossover of human conditions like autism. But yeah glasses and braces are a bit much. Glasses I can sort of seeing but braces no. Also making the turtles more human make them more relatable which probably is the reason why the put these human conditions and emotions to them.
@@michaelfireheart8300 So the turtles in the show are part human and have human sentients. Why would they not have mental issues like anyone else?
@@tmntgirl4life That's true, they are trying to make them more relatable with human flaws, but it becomes confusing when these mutant turtles have access to human things like braces and have human conditions such as autism, when they've been hidden underground for most of their lives and weren't part human until this specific iteration. Now I wonder if there's a mutant dentist and eye doctor, along with a child psychologist in the sewers, that Splinter regularly takes the boys to, like yes they need checkups and I'll be paying in cheese.
@@FunnyBunny161 they are only part human in this specific show, while the rest of the shows have them merely be mutant turtles. That's the disconnect here as they wouldn't have a human condition like autism, nor easy access to dental and eye equipment, when they're supposed to be recluses who lived most of their lives in the sewers of New York and we're ordinary turtles mutated by chemicals.
When she says, “I’ve got two black parents I have no rights,” it clearly referring to that she’s expected to help. Which all of us can relate too. But Maya is making it sound like helping her parents, which is inconvenient for them, is a social justice issue and an infraction on her rights. It makes no sense
Yeah, the whole phrasing of that scene made it wierd like thar
So I’m autistic myself and from a mixed Afro-latine family, I won’t lie but some of the responses from Oscar towerds Bebe getting an autism diagnoses remind me of how my own mom responded towerds even the idea of me getting an autism & adhd diagnoses (such as “there’s nothing wrong with bebe” or “are you saying my son is stupid??”) however mayb it’s just cause I haven’t seen the episode but from the clips you showed it sounds like they tend to lean very heavily into stereotypes sourending autism, as in “smart all capable high functioning autistic young kid” , it even feels lowky-mocking with how chaotic they have bebe be It seems more like they were more interested in showing how much of an inconvince autistic kids are to their parents
I also personally am getting tired of the “autistic people are worthy cause their super smart” rehotic alot of shows push, the focus should be that autistic people are worthy cause their human not cause they can be “super smart” tho this is my personal pet peeve , I don’t know how other autistic people feel about it
I didn't like how autism was portrayed here. I don't like how people treated us like we have superpowers, it's very backhanded and infantilizing. It's same energy as "your handicap is a gift" -an autistic half-white Pacific Islander
Also the "super smart" Austin person feels a bit like a sterotype as well, like I know a lot of autistic people who are social awkward and are of average intelligence as well as autistic people who are able to hyper focus. So yeah, it's a spectrum for a reason.
Runt olf Rita and Runt fromAnimaniacs is autistic (Speilberg;/WB; likewise, Junyer Bear under the great original Looney Tunes series,too)
As an autistic father of an autistic daughter, I find autism representation to be one of the trickiest representations. The spectrum is so diverse, as is the opinions of those in the community. For example, there are a HUGE number of autistic individuals like myself who are repulsed, even offended, when people say "autism is a gift" as Mad Munchkin does near the end of this video. Based on everything I know of my condition, autism is what we call a brain which is failing to properly regulate its neuron counts, resulting in an excess of neuron and neuron connective tissues, the symptoms of which vary greatly (thus the spectrum) but from which the common ones are sensory issues. There are, to date, no indications that autism provides those afflicted by it any benefits, again, its a disregulated brain which is forever trying to self regulate but unable to do so, however, despite having such a condition, many of us are still able to accomplish great things in life.
The comparison I make is to a blind person who is better at walking around in a pitch black room then I am as some one who has functional eyes. They have a skill I don't have, but that I COULD have if I wore a blind fold for a year. In the same manner, I have some skills that neurotypical people do not because my disregulated brain pushes me to hyper fixate on my special interests as a means of external self regulation, but if I had a neuro typical brain I could have these same skills, I probably just wouldn't WANT to dedicate so much of my time and thinking to specific things. That's the difference, a neurotypical person has a choice, they can choose to put on the blind fold, and they can take it off at any point if they don't feel what they're getting is worth it. Being autistic, I don't have that choice, like it or not, regardless of the damage I see it cause to me or my loved ones, I'm stuck with this disregulated brain until some one finds a cure.
To me, when I see some one call autism a gift, or say "I wouldn't want to be cured because I'd lose x" it makes me so sad because THEY have the gift, autism at best, forced them to use it, but if they weren't autistic they'd still be able to do X, they are amazing, not their autism, their disregulated brain only stands in their way, yet they discount their accomplishments by giving at least partial credit for their accomplishments to that which harms them.
All that said... I also know that there exist autistic people, admittedly usually level 1 (Aspergers), who don't feel the same as me, and I do not want to discount their experiences or views. Again, it IS a spectrum, and talking to hundreds of autistic people its become clear to me that the range of experiences among us is so great as to make it so that no single autistic representation in a tv show can EVER properly represent autism for everyone.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be represented, however, just that when it is, I think its both valuable to include multiple representations of the spectrum if at all reasonable, but also to avoid making blanket statements about what autism is and how autistic people experience it, because in doing so you inevitable invalidate a huge portion of the autistic community for whom those descriptions and experiences are not only not accurate, but often, the opposite.
I've met autistic people who need to be in tight clothes at all times for self regulation, and ones who NEED baggy clothes or the sensation of the fabric of their clothes touching them is unbearable. I've known some who could tolerate great pain, and ones like myself who seem to feel pain ten fold of my neurotypical peers. And on and on.
Anyway, this is already too long so I'll close my essay comment just by saying that I really do appreciate this channel and it talking difficult topics like this.
@@Demolitiondude Bravo man, I am growing so damn tired of people thinking Austim makes you some kind of gifted person... No, no it does not. Even though I am someone with Aspergers and thus a 'high-functioning' person on the Austic scale, I still deal with the issues you listed above, especially hyper-fixation. There are days I WISH my brain was more neuro-typical because I could focus better, maybe I wouldn't have made some of the bone-headed mistakes I'm still trying to fix. Just because some studies have shown those with Autism can have high IQ's, doesn't mean it is the rule of thumb, especially on the scale of Austim. A few tweaks of brain chemicals and which neurons are or aren't firing are all that separates those of us 'lucky' to be considered 'high functioning' to those needing all the extra help in the world because their brain is practically working against them.
I'm all for representation and spreading awareness, but do it right or just don't do it at all you check-box happy morons!
Well this shattered all the autistic inspirational quotes I read on an autistic person's youtube channel I watch..I really needed that happiness and acceptance of myself especially recently. Guess not, guess i'm just broken.
Either way, you're wrong in at LEAST one aspect. Without autism I wouldn't have my DEEP special interests. What I like is how much I sheerly love things I enjoy. Hyperfixation. "You would still have that but also a choice or whatever" I don't think I'd still be an artist if I didn't care about cartoons so much and my fixations.
It kinda offends me when someone tells me "You'd still have those interests and traits" when I know how I am is anything but normal, but that isn't always a negative. If I wasn't autistic, I likely wouldn't be carrying around this stuffed animal I love for years into my adulthood. I know you're saying you're not trying to speak for everyone, so i'd like to give my side.
Alao you say you don't speak for everyone but you kinda invalidate others by getting "sad" when they say they'd lose a part of themselves. Werher YOU like it or not, they would. Autism just makes you, different and see the world differently, it can't be cured and it is a part of YOU from birth.
It offends ME when people and things like "autism speaks" say it can be "cured" or they're looking to "cure" it, especially from an autistic person with an autistic child. What am I?? A f*cking disease?
Y'know, life wouldn't be so "hard" and we wouldn't seem so broken if neurotypicals didn't seem to have such a difficult time dealing with us, even over the SMALLEST things even when it's not about them. We think differently, oh no the horror.
Also I can't help it, this also give the air of "If you just cure your gay and transness, no one would hate you!" Why do I need to be "cured" of who I am because it makes others uncomfortable? That doesn't seem right to me. You can say it's "not the same", but they're both a difference in brain function from birth that wasn't a choice, so same vein. Maybe if it wasn't "normal" peoples "Our way or the highway" people wouldn't WANT to be cured, but, who knows.
Bro wrote a whole essay, and is amazing.
I have to say that this comment is pretty mind opening as an Asperger who does not often looks in depth this topic until now. It is wildly appreciated to listen to other perspectives and especially if they do it in a mature way (this also goes with the video of Mad Munchkin).
As for the “gift” thing, I have to agree that autism is cumbersome and difficult to deal with both for the individual and its family, but I see it in the way that we can try to make the best out of our circumstance and “capacitate” it for a better quality of life (hope I expressed that correctly here and not in a way that can be taken in bad faith)
Have a good day, Dan.
I am autistic and I try to keep it to myself for a variety of reasons. 1, I don’t like it when people pretend to understand what it’s like to be me. They’ll say things like “I understand you, my cousin is autistic”, uh no you don’t, autism varies based on the individual. 2, I want to be left alone. 3, neurotypical people tend to be mind-numbingly ignorant to autism, which is kind of understandable. And 4, it makes me look like a virtue signaler, I really don’t like virtue signalers.
Yeah, the biggest issue with Louder and Prouder's writing, is that they can't decide on who to focus on, so the lessons get muddled and don't fully have an impact. I also agree that just because a show gives representation, it doesn't make the show good, especially when the representation is more so about the family, rather than the person with the disability. If you keep giving shows props for barely having representation, that'll be the only thing you get, which is shown with how samey the representation is.
Yeeeeah. That was kind of how I felt about the episode with Maya's dads. Like, sure, it was fine, but I feel like it should've focused a little bit more on Michael. I know, he's not exactly the most important character in that episode, but he was confirmed to be gay in the very first episode of the reboot. I feel like he would have a valuable perspective as the gay kid in a school where the kids with two dads are getting bullied for that reason.
Saw your other comment and wanted to agree. This has been a huge issue with the reboot. Like how the colorism episode turned into pointless female vs female fighting but tried to put a point on female solidarity and allyship but missed the mark on all fronts angering everyone. There were definately a lot of misses in the original series that resulted in problematic or episodes with mixed messaging but they always set out with the topic in mind and at hand. With these new episodes it feels like were tiptoeing around these huge issues they claim to be discussing in their headlines.
One character that I love the most that's autistic is Norma from Paranormal Dead end park who struggles to be social but she's written correctly to be autistic and shows a lot of struggle as a character and in season 2 she still struggles but manages to stay true to her character and coming out as bi which this show does gracefully and respectfully, I highly recommend Paranormal Dead End Park it's amazing
Oh I know I'm waiting on season 3
@@singledinner6945 unfortunately it got canceled 😓
@@lilacnoteheart5610 I didn't know that I'm actually quite sad now but it doesn't matter I'll still have the memories of a good show
@@lilacnoteheart5610 A common Netflix L move :/
@Suspicious Star yeah but we at least still got an amazing show from Netflix before they done goofed
Parentification is no joke.
I’m not black but it happened to me with all my younger cousins.
If I had plans? Too bad, you’re watching them so the adults can party. If I just wanted a bit of time to myself? (massive family, so rarely any privacy), I get called a selfish ungrateful bitch who never does anything for anyone.
I was invited to my best friends sweet sixteen birthday, which I informed everyone of weeks and days beforehand that I was DEFINITELY planning on going to because she was my best friend.
Just as I’m getting ready to leave…guess who hit me up to watch her kids so she could go party with her friends?
My cousin.
The entire family pressured me into canceling my plans because ‘she’s family!’.
So I had to call my friend and apologize how I couldn’t show up. She CRIED because we were suppose to have a massive sleepover with all our friends (some of whom were graduating and going to college).
Keep in mind, I basically helped my grandma RAISE my youngest cousins since they were BORN. I was only FOURTEEN at the time.
Imagine my older cousins shock (their mother who’d rather go out with friends than be a parent) when the oldest kid stated calling ME mama when she started talking.
It pissed her off so much that I’m no longer allowed to see them because I’m ‘taking them away from her!’.
Not to mention all the shit of mine (some of it was really sentimental stuff i gained over the years and most you can’t buy in stores anymore because they were limited edition) I had to give to other kids in the family (namely the more wealthy side).
I collect stuffed animals because I grew up poor and we didn’t really have extra money for stuff, and cheap stuffed animals were always a gift at my birthday (which I had to share with my younger brother or else he’d throw a tantrum because HE wasn’t getting attention). I got a really nice one from a friend for my birthday one years, a small frog plush. Well, a younger cousin saw it on my shelf and wanted it. Of course k said no. She went to her parents and threw the BIGGEST tantrum I’ve ever seen from a nine year old.
I had to give it up because my family guilted me into it.
Wanna know what happened to it? She got bored of it and decided to give it to her dog.
Who TORE it to shreds. How do I know? I babysat her and found the remanants when I went to take out the trash (something I was expected to do.).
So now I’m a twenty year old woman who doesn’t know how to establish boundaries because I was taught by my family that no matter what, my feelings and opinions didn’t matter.
We feel you. If you need to rant or want someone to listen I'm here. ❤
Honestly, it’s not a surprise to me that Maya has this confusion of privilege, rights, and responsibilities, because that’s the confusion. A lot of people are making in today’s world, and the producer of the show is no exception.
I would like to say that the term Aspergers isn’t a clinical term anymore! They got rid of the term in 2013 since it was under the autism spectrum/nm
Also because it came from a Nazi and a term to define disabled children
thank you for saying this
A lot of people with autism, myself included, still call it Aspergers.
Mainly because it’s a more recognizable term than ASD.
I say it because people are less likely to say “you don’t look autistic”
We should be allowed to call our disabilities what we want.
@@SpeedyWeedyYT Usually I'm not fond of just caving into others' misconceptions but I'm not your dad so 🤷♂
I feel insulted for having that now
As someone who grew up in a black household, we're expected to take care of our brothers and sisters even if we have plans. We'd normally have to take them with us or cancel our plans. We are also expected to help in raising them as our parents sometimes have to go to work at all hours of the day, our parents dealing with issues that don't involve the children or when our parents want a break. However if we even tried to voice our opinion or ask to not have to babysit we'll get lecutred, threatened to be placed on punishment or in the case of my family spend the day hearing your parent rant and rave about how you're being disrespectful to your parents for saying no. Even when we do these things we also get "told on" to our extended relatives who will gang up on us til we learn to respect our parents.
So I'm sure you've never grew up in a black household but that's why we're unable to object to being a second (sometimes third) parent in the household for our younger siblings. It's just how the black household works.
I’m not black but it happened to me with my cousins. If I had plans? Too bad, you’re watching them so the adults can party. If I just wanted a bit of time to myself? (massive family, so rarely any privacy), I get called a selfish ungrateful bitch who never does anything for anyone.
I was invited to my best friends sweet sixteen birthday, which I informed everyone of weeks and days beforehand.
Just as I’m getting ready to leave…guess who hit me up to watch her kids so she could go party with her friends?
My cousin.
The entire family pressured me into canceling my plans because ‘she’s family!’.
Keep in mind, I basically helped my grandma RAISE my youngest cousins since they were BORN. I was only FOURTEEN at the time.
Imagine my older cousins shock (their mother who’d rather go out with friends than be a parent) when the oldest kid stated calling ME mama when she started talking.
It pissed her off so much that I’m no longer allowed to see them because I’m ‘taking them away from her!’.
@@therealopaartist Well, if she's making you look after them all the time, then she shouldn't be shocked because of that
not all black families are the same tho, the way you're making it sound like all black families are abusive is weird
i feel like its one of those things where just because its normal doesnt mean its ok.
@@jasperjazzieliterally I can't stand when ppl do this because it pai.ts back people as some monolith, what thua re explaining is adultification and its in a large amountkf black families because of our proximity to poverty (bc slavery, colonialism) this style of l parenting I very common in poor yt families as well tho in fact in alot of poor families in general.
I remember when Autism was shown on TV, movies cartoons as "A person so hindered by it that they are incapable le of functioning normally" which is where the stigma comes from.
I have a LOT to say on the subject as it is some thing I've had to live with . The SHORTEST way to say it is that TV, Movies, Cartoons have never and could never accurately tell the story of the experiences I grew up with.
The times TV has tried to talk about disability they always exaggerate it or show things that never happened to me.
point is School in my day DID NOT handle it well. I HOPE they handle it better now, but I still hear bad stories. I can't say for certain as Im not in school now.
Just Society in general is built to accommodate mainstream people. It revolves around sports and tests and office jobs and sex and rock and roll and beer
it doesn't favor people who are outside of the mainstream box.
I remember a scrubs episode with one of the side characters having a autistic child
As someone who has a family member on the higher functioning side of the spectrum, I can kinda get the point you are making here. Just because it's representation doesn't make it automatically good.
as someone who is on the spectrum (aspergers anxiety and adhd) i really dont care if there is any representation for me at all tbh because most of the time they just screw it up anyway
@@jld12er30 Ah, that is a fair point... (Also I did not know that was on the spectrum, thank you). I suppose my care for my family member blinded me to that. I am sorry.
@@CheeseTheWhistle no worries bud im glad you would care so much family. And most things dont bother me its one of the other reasons i dont care if i get representation in film or tv because really it doesnt really change anything i mean cmon its not like its going to make my brain work like everyone else and even that dont bother me i just see it as the good lord made me a bit different.
I’ve noticed that a lot of irl activists, at least the really vocal ones, don’t understand the difference between a right and a privilege either so at least Louder and Prouder was accurate on that one.
I still remember when I first found out about my Aspergers. My first thought was "I don't have time to be autistic, I have to be a high school student." Mostly because I had a faint grasp of what my situation was. I didn't know how big a deal it was back then... you could fill a novelette with the kinda stuff I don't know ^^;
I got my diagnosis during my senior year of high school. By that point, I'd already figured out the easiest method for blending in with "normal people" on the lowest energy setting possible so finding out didn't really register as important since I'd already done all the hard stuff all on my own. All it did was put a name to what I'd already sensed was there somewhere. While I really do wish now that I'd had all these reference materials when I was younger, I also am glad I didn't since my school district was one of those places where anyone could end up in Special Ed for just about any reason up to and including anger issues and crippling shyness 🙄 The only thing keeping me out was my adaptability and my moms refusal to accept their crap. Ah the ongoing human struggle of self discovery vs self preservation.
I wasn't officially diagnosed as autistic until high school. Though my mom noticed my autistic traits when I was 4.
I was labeled with aspergers (tech high functioning aspergers) in elementary school. It was then used as a brand on my forehead all throughout school. Basically the school refused to even research what it meant and would just assume it meant mentally retarded.
They immediately tried to put me on drugs and kick me down to special Ed. When my mother refused they decided they would try to force me into the class. They literally harassed me every year until I got out of that school and then had at least one teacher each school year openly harassing me and even punishing my grades because "he has to be cheating, there is no way he is that good at ____ subject". Seriously it was insane, I'm working on my doctorates now yet they would openly say that i had no future. The look on their face when my mother mentions my degree level (when she runs into them) is hilarious. They have a look of shock and embarrassment that I am actually succeeding despite all their actions.
Gigachad
Yea
"I got two black parents. I have no rights."
**Dies of cringe.**
i mean, its not like shes wrong, ive seen *tons* of people say this shit, haha
She's out of line, but she has a point. There definitely are teens that feel like his
I mean this is how it feels to many children with conservative/traditional black parents. Calling it "cringe" is really reductive to the issue and rude to those who relate to this comment.
@@user-jn4oe9sb5z what is the difference between black conservative/traditional and other races conservative/traditional parents? (not trying to start an argument, just genuinely wondering)
Clearly a white person.
The problem with the Proud Family reboot, is that it tries to realistically portray people, while being cartoony during it's runtime, the writers want it both ways, even if these styles clash. I have autism, from my point of view, this is not how we are like, this is what the Proud Family's writers think autism is like, if you don't know how to write characters with autism, do not write a character with autism, the job of a writer is to experience people, then share that experience on screen, just going online and reading about autism is not good enough.
Another missed opportunity is that we don't get to really see Cece's point of view. Yeah, she's two but she'd probably feel left out/jealous when Bebe gets more attention, embarrassed/frustrated by Bebe's actions l due to her not yet understanding. Or confused about the while ordeal.
Oh trust me, I'm already writing a full blown episode that takes place in he future about Cece's P.O.V on all of this. And by writing I mean daydreaming how I think it would play out with my own headcanon's added in.
Also I know everyone in this comment section has mentioned already but I have to give credit to ROTTMNT for inspiring a Cece centric fanfic/daydream. We do have Donnie and Leo being twins after all
The first thing that comes to my mind after your review is the South Park episode about Tourette, and how that made a point to say that the condition? Disorder? Is actually different from person to person, and that it's wrong to take advantage of its existance to look for Sympathy because people with it are no less human than everyone else.
I swear you can do an entire school project, nay, a college essay on why you should never create a child activist who barely contributes to anything but themselves. Maya puts the whole new meaning of "if you're not gonna support whatever I do as a friend, then why the heck do we hang around in the friend circle at all" spectrum.
I don't truly think this episode was groundbreaking on the whole Autism topic. They perfectly did a good job on explaining it as a whole with the diagnosis part, but something tells me unless the writers keep actual note reminder after this, Bebe will just go back to being a toddler playing around with Cece. Autism has come in many varieties, and the tricky part is through the whole expressing and reaction in a fictional animated means of entertainment. What can be worse in media entertainment is if you say those with Autism are allowed to behave in a very ill-mannered way just because of their Autism.
As someone who is on the Autism spectrum, I absolutely agree that this episode did too much "tell" and a not very skilled attempt at "showing".
I absolutely love LOOP. How my autism expresses itself is different, yet similar enough that I feel confident in using Loop to help explain what it's like.
We need more authentic representation of all sorts of people. Show people as simply people with differences rather than people defined by their differences. It's definitely happening, but it feels slow.
I agree to an extent, if a character has a mental disability, they should state it, otherwise people will be left wondering if a character is mentally disabled or is just cartoonishly weird
@@Bolbi145
Autism is a physical condition, not mental. It's based on our neurons being different. Mental implies it's purely psychological, which to be fair is what people thought for a long time. Aside from that, I agree that a person's conditions should at least be mentioned if they are important to the story or character.
@@seanmcfadden3712 I know, I meant in terms of what is visible and what is affected. I’m just saying that kids should be taught about this stuff in a straight forward manner, like there was this episode of Clifford with a 3 legged dog to teach kids about people missing limbs, and kids took the lesson too literally as in they thought message was “be nice to 3 legged dogs”.
@@Bolbi145
Ah! Understood. Some people I've encountered have used "autism is a ments thing, right?" as an excuse to be horrible. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't that sort of situation. 😅
Wait…when she says “I have two black parents. I have no rights!” it was definitely a joke. To give some context, a large percentage of black households still maintain traditional “values” in regards to raising their children. Basically, what she’s saying is “what my parents say goes, and there’s no if, and’s, or but’s about it.” It’s usually seen as incredibly disrespectful to go against what our parents tell us to do. No arguing back or even just explaining your feelings. Now, thankfully my black parents aren’t that traditional, but many black households are. It’s a problem that the black community are beginning to recognize and work ok but slowly. So, that joke just went over your heads probably because you didn’t grow up in that sort of environment. (Mind you this traditional household is maintained within most “minority” households.)
Edit: When it comes to me seeing people looking at such small moments, like that joke, under a microscope it makes me think of what my old biology teacher used to say before every test, “It’s not that deep!” In other words, don’t over analyze everything. I know we live in “sensitive” times and everyone thinks media is trying to preach to them, but that’s not always the case. It was a harmless joke that the writers probably thought their audience would get, and honestly they did. This is still a cartoon with a black main protagonist and A LOT of black kids and young adults have grown up watching it. We got the joke!
It's a joke that isn't deep but that doesn't mean it's delivered well
I think this episode was great with how it tackled autism. Some parents do deny their kids have autism or any other neurodivergent condition.
I'm autistic myself and the episode almost made me cry
Do you have super powers?
@@skootergirl22 no. I'm just a person who happens to have autism. My life is tough, but I have people who understand and are patient with me, including my loving husband.
I just want to say thank you for doing these videos on louder and prouder. Finding any genuine critics about this show and not just hating on it for being "woke" is a breath of fresh air. I enjoyed louder and prouder even if it had it issues with depicting serious topics (end of innocence, bebe, juneteenth, especially). I think the problem is that with the writing and trying to do a lot with complex issues within a single episode. Especially with a show that has more episodes that are goofy, lighthearted, and episodic. Basically season 2 is a bit confused but it got spirit and I hope it finds the right footing to tell these certain stories for people.
"I have two black parents, I don't have any rights." oh lord wait till they find out about the mexican parents
Or just strict parents in general, but this is Disney so we must be reminded about race every other minute.
Why is it when black people vent about the black experience it's compared to another we assume it's similar at this point
@@michaelfireheart8300 it's not "venting about race". Parentification and last-minute babysitting is something that happens to a lot of black girls (me for example)
For once, it's not them being woke. It's telling a universal truth
@@bookworms6634 and Hispanic girls.
"Maya gets rights and privileges mixed up" Maya is exactly like an irl activist in that case
Even rights arent always a given, you or someone else have to fight for your rights. Even today in America white men wouldnt be able to vote if not for the revolutionary soldiers, white women wouldnt be able to vote without the suffragettes, non-white people wouldnt be able to vote without all those who fought for the Union and in both world wars without the right to vote and without the efforts of the Civil Rights movement. Most of Europe wouldnt be able to vote without the Allies fighting off the Nazis and NATO defending them from communism. Most of the 3rd world wouldnt be able to vote without the various independence movements.
Most activists dont even really know what fighting for your rights really entails, they think "activism" is the same as posting on social media or using rights they already have to express themselves. Most protestors today in the first world arent really fighting for rights, they're largely just complaining. Even at many rallies and protests they tend to go to places that are already on their side like protesting to protect Roe v Wade in a state where it's still fully in force or protesting injustices in the 3rd world in a liberal 1st world capitol. Most activists though dont even look at the prefix of "activist" which is "act" as in "action", you're performing an "action" to further your goal, not finding an echo chamber to complain at or reposting/copy and pasting something you saw on social media.
Thank you Maddie for sharing your perspective on autism and your feeling on this episode. It’s so awesome to see other people who are disabled on TH-cam, because I myself have ADHD and autism‼ Especially those of who are women, female presenting, or nonbinary fem because the drs have a harder time diagnosing us with autism.
Ps: my mom and I suspected I had autism. However the drs were only able to confirm I had adhd. That was until I got tested again at age fifteen and the drs confirmed my mom was right‼
THIS. I am a trans man with autism due to Turner’s Syndrome (Rare genetic disorder) and I was tested for autism in a California military base in 2008. I was actually pretty low functioning back then, but it was determined that I didn’t have anything other than a general developmental delay. Why? Cause I was “friendly” to the tester and made eye contact. I wasn’t formally diagnosed with autism until I was 13 and living in Missouri, and the test was very inappropriate for my level (They had me interact with picture books and action figures) I wasn’t diagnosed with Turner’s until I was 16 (4 years ago) however. I can’t even have kids unless I do IVF, and I won’t be pursuing that due to serious ethical concerns and financial issues. People might think I grew up spoiled being the youngest of 3 in a military family, but they couldn’t be more wrong. My dad was a cheater, a liar, and abusive in every way (Even when my mom was pregnant from me) He almost never interacted with me before he left my mom for his cousin in 2013. My full brother who is five years older than me has always been more of a dad to me than the bastard one we have, even when he would run after me in the street when I was a toddler. I appreciate him, but I wish he didn’t change. My mom and I are lucky if we see him every two months even though he lives with his girlfriend an hour and a half away, and he let that brat and her mom insult us in front of everybody for not bringing a cake to his birthday party. (My mom and I called in advance, saying that we decided to bring fruit we chopped instead) My half brother who is my mom’s first son lives in Japan with his wife, and I have only seen him a couple times since 2020.
I can only imagine how hard that is for you. Granted I’ve had my own struggles, however I won’t compare my experiences to yours because that feels unfair! Still I want you to know I stand with you‼️
@@grodriguez7225 Thanks
4:59 very decisive comment section here. What I've noticed is the brown/black ppl in the comments (like myself, i'm latina) can understand penny's plight here, where white, especially like here in the states (suburban white) see her as over exaggerating or what not.
As someone diagnosed with autism as a tiny being, I am very glad when I see good representation of autism. This episode is very conflicting to me. It's like they had 2 plots and smooshed it into one and that Bebe's autism fell through the cracks. The show writers should've scrapped the Penny's babysitting half and just focused on Bebe and his diagnosis. The dynamics change a lot after diagnosis and it would've been great to see.
This is one of many reasons why I think of Louder and Prouder as non-canon.
Yeah, from what I’ve seen of this reboot, I am so glad i passed on it. Especially with the character of Maya. From when Ive seen of this character, she just comes off as one of those selfish, arrogant and self righteous people that are mistaken to be activists. I find her to be a terrible Role model for anyone to have.
Also the hate on white people we should be equal that's what MLK would want
Bebe and Cece always got into shenanigans in the first series...I'm not sure why this was the demonstration and not just a full episode centered around the twins and not penny/oscar. The twins have been side characters for so long and now they they are old enough to participate in the plot, there's ample ideas for their development. Id love to see them in preschool or daycare (which would give penny and co more freedom to do their own thing)
*Press "F" In repesctof people of Autism deservin' better compared to this trash fire!*
for a person with autism not all of us are the same i have very mild autism its a gift and a curse
Honestly I'm more disappointed in the show itself. Because it seriously feels so half baked in its writing. I could care less if I was represented in that light.
5:35 I think what Maya was trying to say is that Penny has a right to say no to babysitting her siblings. As so she could be distracted or the staff of the museum would probably tell her that she probably needs to keep her siblings quiet or she'll have to be vacated from the premises, Keep in mind BeBe and CeCe are toddlers they can easily Escape pennies line of vision and Exhibits which would lead Penny and her parents to pay a heavy fine
Yeah they kind of undermined their own plot when it’s pointed out bebe needs more love and attention and the first thing they do is just push him off on penny.
I have mild autism myself so I feel they really shot themselves in the foot with this episode.
No one learns anything nor in the show or even the audience cause the episodes point defeats itself.
The "I have black parent I have no rights" Is a very American thing idk I work around alot of black people so I found it funny.
I'm not even American, but that line speaks truths about my life
I sadly had to deal with a lot of stigmatism in school when it came to autism, from bullying, to ignorance, to a crazy principle in middle school who removed all the support systems everyone with developmental disorders save for those who literally couldn't function, as she thought the other "so called disorders", her words not mine, were simply just the result of poor parenting, lack of religion, and a lack of proper discipline.
Lack of religion PLEASE I call bull. Why would she think that lack of religion causes disorders? That's some West Virginia type crap
@@DavidD-KingWolf65 She was a bit of a loon, everyone at school often called her "The Cow Lady" not that she was fat mind you, she was actually quite skinny from what I recall, but she collected a lot of cow plushies, which she would then position around the office in such a way that they all faced the chair you had to sit in if you got called to the principals office.
Also I live in Alaska, and sadly a lot of conservatives end up in the school system up here, especially in positions of power.
@@dragonknightleader I didn't assume you lived in Alaska, I was saying West Virginia because even if other states are crazy, none are comparable to the inaneness of West Virginia lol
@@DavidD-KingWolf65 Ah, I see.
It’s that illegal?
I was labeled with aspergers (tech high functioning aspergers) in elementary school. It was then used as a brand on my forehead all throughout school. Basically the school refused to even research what it meant and would just assume it meant mentally retarded.
They immediately tried to put me on drugs and kick me down to special Ed. When my mother refused they decided they would try to force me into the class. They literally harassed me every year until I got out of that school and then had at least one teacher each school year openly harassing me and even punishing my grades because "he has to be cheating, there is no way he is that good at ____ subject". Seriously it was insane, I'm working on my doctorates now yet they would openly say that i had no future. The look on their face when my mother mentions my degree level (when she runs into them) is hilarious. They have a look of shock and embarrassment that I am actually succeeding despite all their actions.
congrats on your doctorate, really stick it to their faces!
Honestly: I think they did the twin girl right by doing nothing with her in this episode. It's kind of accurate that boys will get diagnosed faster than girls because of the way research is based on studying autism in boys. The fact that they ignored CC feels pretty accurate to me since girls are often thrown by the wayside when it comes to autism--because many receive no support for it, they are forced to adapt and mask better to the point where people will "think" they "don't even qualify" as autistic anymore by adulthood. Then there's misconceptions about how autism only applies to children when many adults get diagnosed as adults. It would be cool if CC is autistic too, but she finds out later in life since this is a very accurate and real experience for autistic girls. (This is also my experience, so I can vouch for this as an autistic girl).
Something hit me in the head from what you brought up about Maya: what disgusts me about modern activists is they DON'T practice what they preach. A REAL activist is keeping their mouth shut and just put the effort in doing something beneficial and progressive. Actions speak louder than words, even good actions when people see it they'll be inspired by it. That's how you become an activist. Not a self loathing lazy gaslighter.
Wait, Maddie is an Aspie like me? Yay FELLOW ASPIE!!! And yeah I have agree they should have focused a bit more on the autism side rather than trying to fluctuate between different story points. I mean Arthur did a more Autism focused episode "When Carl Met George" a.k.a. "George and the Missing Puzzle Piece" because it not only taught bout Autism and the symptoms but it showed it as well, especially with Carl's major interest in trains as it is his favorote subject and his freak out seeing George's Giraffe dummy Wally. Plus the Brain's explanation bout Aspergers is spot on. And i agree we do need more representation of the autism spectrum in media more. Here's hoping we do get it
Can't blame you for wanting to cover Bluey again. It's a show with a lot of good writing and folded like a paper crane that's begging to be dissected.
Dude bluey in my opinion is a good family friendly masterpiece. Funny and at the same time not annoying to watch
As an autistic person, we have a long way to go to get proper representation in animation. The best representation we got of an autistic person was Quinni from Heartbreak High (because the actor is actually autistic), and that was not even in an animated show. I get that the show wanted to present this topic, but I feel so infantized by this representation (which is not good because I have been treated this way all of my life). Yes, present the fact that we are disabled but don't present as superheroes or nuisances to society because that harmful stereotype affect our lives and how we are treated.
Also, please don't use the term "Aspergers Syndrome" because it coined after a N@zi scientist who tortured autistic people for experiments./nm
If only there were another name to describe Asperger's syndrome.
I think you too hung up on the wording. As someone like Penny, i get it. It is not her responsibility to always watch her siblings. And that's the whole point. She's not just whinning and complaining. Through out the whole series, old and new, Penny's parents are constantly making her watch her siblings when she has her own life to live. She didn't have them so she shouldn't have to keep making sacrifices in her life. Only the ones who made them should. So what if shes only goin to the museum? I don't care if it was to Disney World. She shouldn't have to have the responsibility of taking care of twin toddlers while shes just trying to hang with her friends. That's not her job. She does have a RIGHT to STAND UP and tell her parents, who have been making her feel she doesn't have the right, that she doesn't want to babysit. And onto the show/episode, I think one of the main issues is that they try and squeeze too many ideas into one story line. Cause it tries to tackle parentification of penny, bebes autism and Oscar coming to terms with all of it. They should of just hinted at Penny's issue since it's already been shown and just focused on Oscar and bebe. And then focused on Penny's issue in a separate episode.
THANK YOU!
I swear, all the comments saying that Penny was a brat and going to the museum is a unecessary are obviously white people who never had to deal with parents guilt tripping them into last-minute babysitting so they can have fun.
I honestly feel like if you know nothing, don't say anything. And these comments are proof
Agree, older children are not free babysitters.
I was diagnose with autism when i was 19 after i graduated high school.
Same here.
Same here!
Are none of the producers or even cast members listening to our complaints and analysis? These are major issues in the show that they need to reevaluate about themselves as storytellers because it's giving off the wrong vibes and messages!
I honestly like the reference humor. Yeah, it put me off a little that her friends were a too cavalier about her brother being missing, and I would’ve written it differently, but it’s meant to be both comedic and serving the idea that Penny is in over her head. Maybe the discussion of autism could’ve been better if it had been the focus throughout the entire episode, and maybe this was an obstacle from the company, but what they are, at least, trying to do is say that Penny’s responsibilities are adding up, because Bebe’s symptoms are adding up.
Whenever media tries to tackle autism they always show it from the family and friends perspective ie showing how annoyed and scared they are and then treat autistic like they are a nuisance or burden. Granted Bebe can't really communicate but they only shows some of the family's reactions instead he feels. I also think there are too many shows, episodes, and characters that deal with autism. Don't get me wrong I think children should be educated on the subject in a respectful way and I myself did write a children's book on asd, but all this exposure has kind of harmed the autism community. There's now an epidemic of children and adults self diagnosing themselves with autism and demanding their primary care doctors and their therapists to diagnose them or their kids with autism. Autism diagnosis only work if a doctor studies someone for awhile and see the signs then recommend the individual to a specialist. Just because you are socially awkward doesn't automatically mean you are autistic, and having a bad stomach ache doesn't automatically mean you have colon cancer.
I have two disabled sisters (unidentified disorder. They have low muscle tone, balance issues, are non-verbal, and will never be independent).
I have to help take care of them, and yeah, it does feel like being a third parent and it sucks at times.
That being said.. it's family. My sister's need me, and if anyone tried to tell me "just stick up for yourself and ignore them, you don't have to help", I'd scream at them.
Sometimes, I have to take them out to places with me, like movies, and that's fine. They deserve to enjoy going out as well, and Penny's friends are completely ignorant to what it's like being an older sibling.
This show feel like okay, let's see what boxes we can cheak off
I mean you can't expect much from a reboot/revival of an already existing franchise. Especially one under Disney, where they notoriously check boxes and will immediately censor specific topics to make money in other countries.
@@michaelfireheart8300 more like we did A, B, C topics, so we are good.
Basically like they doing the bare minimal of things & then patting them self on the back
I think it's terrible how they represented how Bebe is autistic by just taking what Bebe and Cece did in the old series and just made it a Bebe trait and labelled it autism.
This episode really did try to do way too much in its time limit.
It's probably going to be a couple more decades before Hollywood remembers what it knew in the 90s and early 2000s: Tokenism is NOT representation. Until then, we can expect 99% of their "representation" offerings to be awkward at best.
Thank you for sharing your experiences and disabilities, because you done so much and successful in life. Thank you also, for clarifying what autism actually is. Honestly the word and definition of Autism to me at least, is so vast and at times very hard to understand. Until now I have no idea it was a sensory disability. I realized now that's what it meant as there are different modes of autism here and there.
For my capstone in art school, I did it on need more representations of animated characters with disability. Witch I did since I have a learning disability my self. Out of shows that I feel had good representation of disability are, Toph from (T.L.A.B., Avatar the last Air-bender), Felix Renton from (K.P., Kim Possible), Helen from (S.X. Sonic x), Scootaloo form (M.l.P., My Little Pony), and Dory from (F.N., Finding Nemo). I also feel CeCe from Shake Up was a good representation of dyslexia. It was the episode called Add it up. Even though is was show with actors and not animated, to me that episode really stuck with me. I end up learning what dyslexia was, and to find out the actor had it as well, made me like that episode munch more. There are a few shows that have animated characters with disability that are good representation, but agree that we need more of it. I haven't seen a character that even has my learning disability, witch I would like to see.
I don’t want to say this to hurt anyone or make anyone upset or feel dumb (trust me y’all are not)
But Asperger’s is no longer non clinical word to describe ASD. It was coined by the nazis (specifically Hans Asperger) to describe autistic people as well as calling it “autistic psychopathy” so for some of us autistic people we do not like it described as Asperger’s.
But if someone prefers to call it that way as it was what they were diagnosed with on paper, please don’t be disrespectful to them. /g
One thing is for sure, I can relate to having older adults (especially parents) pushing me to watch younger children without asking me if I have plans or goals I need to accomplish. On top of this, I was the younger sibling. My older siblings had to go through the same thing, and I agree it is selfish for any parents to push this. Don't have time to take care of your kids, DON'T HAVE MORE KIDS, PROBLEM SOLVED! If you are going to have the older or younger sibling watch someone younger, at least pay your kid or promise a deal that both can agree on. Also, I hate the excuse of, "Oh, I gave birth to you, so you owe me." Parents like this really piss me off. 😡
I thought the professional offered a nice-enough description of autism for kids and the uninitiated, all things considered.
Given that neurodivergence tends to run in families, I immediately started to wonder if Cece's just high-masking, and if Oscar might be some flavor of neurodivergent, too.
Oh, and I think Maya's actually a very true-to-life portrayal of a typical teenager who is passionate about social justice and/or who fancies themselves an activist. They may be bright, motivated, and sincere in their convictions, but they're still going to be immature, naive, inexperienced, and self-centered/myopic at some level, because they're kids. What the show could arguably stand to be clearer about is when a given character (like Maya or Penny) is meant to be the Voice of Reason, and when we're meant to see something wrong with their attitude or behavior.
I notice that both of the episodes you've critiqued so far introduced multiple themes and ideas (intentionally and unintentionally) in a way that confused the ultimate message and complicated the plot.
A right to a childhood is a right. Being forced to parent takes away childhood. I don't see where your confusion comes from. It's not that complicated.
Did you finish the video? I literally went into more.detail on that.
My guess is that they couldn't decide which plot point to go with, so they decided to try to fit all them in.
I mean there ARE child protection laws against the constant high responsibility Penny was put in and the constant time and mental health consumption her parents just forced her into and it is a reacuring issue in many less privileged communities
But yeah the shows issue is often the lack of balance of comedy and sincerity, it jumps too hard without buildup and often just pretends as if they didnt just ridicule or straightup showed bigotry on the screen and keep it as a "joke" while they try to show that bigotry is wrong
Well unfortunately This Happens more frequently Especially With mental Illness and substance abuse, And with anything that keeps the parents from being present for their children. Lacking resources support and life skills Often lead to people Who need their kids to take on roles they normally shouldn't. But they have to because then who will.
Sucks trying to adult after growing up that way though.
I like that they said "lower support" instead of talking about functioning labels? While I don't personally have a preference either way, lately the autistic community prefers "low support" to "high functioning" because in practice that's what functioning labels have meant- high-functioning meant it took less effort for other people to accommodate or 'support' you.
As an autistic person with an *absurdly* low pain tolerance though...WHY DID I NOT GET THE ABILITY TO NOT PROCESS PAIN THE WAY OTHERS DO?
7:54 Anyone who has sibling would have this same reaction. Little siblings almost seem invincible with the amount of stuff that that they can just tank lol.
Maybe the episode would’ve been interesting in another way if Cece had more screen time, but I don’t know that this is necessary. The doctor did do a comparison diagnosis, and found that she did not have autism. As for whether the name should be used or not, I think it’s perfectly fine to use the name. Yes, the big deal is that it should not be a big deal, so in many cases, it can be shown without being named. However, when trying to destigmatize the subject itself, it’s sometimes pays to point directly at the issue. Many people still need to hear the word autism without having a reaction. By the way, you make a good point about how complicated the condition and its diagnoses are. This is all the more reason why the topic needs to be explored and named. People are wrong to say that this series is automatically the best thing ever just because of one episode, and they are wrong to say that this has never been attempted. But I don’t think that diminishes from the step this episode and series are taking. Let’s just hope that the next show does it even better.
this episode really could have been amazing. During the part where Bebe was revealed to be autistic, the way Oscar reacted reminded me a lot of my dad when my mom initially suggested that I likely have adhd and/or autism(now diagnosed). He didn't want to accept the idea that I, his offspring, might be stupid, and later learned down the line that 'stupid' and neurodivergency aren't one and the same. In fact, he began to appreciate the fact that I'm like this. End of Innocence could've done this. It's clear that this is what they were striving for. And it makes me so insanely sad that we couldn't have had that.
Honestly, I don't get why it's so hard for people to just write a normal character... who just happens to be autistic. Like... the typical "nonconformist/free spirit" protagonist is closer to an authentic representation of autism than any of the BS we've been getting lately. Honestly, if anything, I'm more worried that my autistic characters will be criticised for not being "autistic enough", as I'm just writing them as normal people... who just happen to be a little quirky, and not in a pretentious braggy way either.
Had to tell my friend to stop watching this new version of The Proud Family, because they believe this is another way of understanding my culture. Had to tell them to watch the old version and The Boondocks.
Why would they care to understand "your culture" and what are you referring to when you say that?
the message with the kid in the wheelchair is about you shouldnt lower your guard with someone who is disabled and you should treat them like everyone else. and just because they are disabled doesnt mean they are any less of a jerk, sometimes they use there diability to get away with things they should never
personal experience; my dad is an absolute bastard, legally blind, wheelchair bound, has multiple sclerosis (immune system is basically killing him and the nervous system). he was not a very nice man before he showed signs, and became what Aesop would call: the old lion
An old Lion, whose teeth and claws were so worn that it was not so easy for him to get food as in his younger days, pretended that he was sick (in this case he IS sick). He took care to let all his neighbors know about it, and then lay down in his cave to wait for visitors. And when they came to offer him their sympathies.
The Fox came too, but he was very cautious about it. Standing at a safe distance from the cave, he inquired politely after the Lion's health. The Lion replied that he was very ill indeed, and asked the Fox to step in for a moment. But Master Fox very wisely stayed outside, thanking the Lion very kindly for the invitation.
"I should be glad to do as you ask," he added, "but I have noticed that there are many footprints leading into your cave and none coming out. Pray tell me, how do your visitors find their way out again?"
I know what it feels like to be different from other people and I do understand how the Proud family feeling right now as they're trying to accept that Bebe has autistic because my parents went through the same thing with me when I was very young before I starter at Primary school. I don't really have autistic but I do have asperger syndrome which means I can sometime get confuse or misunderstood what other people are talking about. I didn't know that I have a asperger syndrome until my mum finally decided to tell me the whole truth before I started high school.
Through my life from teenager and now as an adult I accepted my condiction as there times when I do need help when I need it but I do start to think for myself as I tried to be organise or even help my parents out as I could. There are some things I'm good at while there are other difficult things that I'm not good at but I always try best to bring out the person in me which I'm sure Bebe would do the same thing even though this is a cartoon.
Reboot = Does not continue from where the previous left off, opting to start over.
Continuation = Picks up right where the previous left off.
Revival = Can be either a Reboot or Continuation.
Going to a museum is a privilege while babysitting is a responsibility. You are literally taking care of a child, another living being. The next generation. That is more important than going to a museum.
Too bad it’s not Penny’s (full) responsibility. Bebe and Cece aren’t her kids.
@@ShaftCommander Still as an older sibling, it's our responsibility to look out for our younger siblings.
@@Vulpecula-Enfield look out for. Not take care of.
@@Vulpecula-Enfield its only our responsibility if the parents force it on us, kids are not supposed to be taking care of kids, especially ones that arent theirs
@@Vulpecula-Enfield And this is how you have older siblings who grow to resent their parents and siblings for being forced to take care of them all the time.
When I found I have Autism, I also have Asperger's, I didn't accept it at first. I did not want to accept that I was more different then I already was around other people. I was already dealing with being a reject at school, I was dealing with bullying at the time I didn't want anyone at my school to know cause I thought it would make it worst if anyone found out.
After I did my own search on Asperger's I learned that just because I have Asperger's doesn't make me anymore different as someone else. Over time I learned to accept I am autistic and that I do have Asperger's.
When it comes to trying to calm down after being overwhelmed some people will take a step outside or out of a room and hide away in a room away from other people. For me I try to block out everyone the best I can. I put my hands over my ears while using my fingers to try and close 'em then shut my eyes and try to block the noise out. Come to find out that can also been seen as rude to some people who are trying to talk to you, I had a noise overload in math class a few years ago and everyone was talking over everyone and just being load while that is seen as a normal form of loud to me it felt like it was 10x louder and one of my classmates was trying to talk to me while I was having an overload of noise. I can't even understand two people who are trying to talk to me at the same time. I once even told them to shut up, I was lucky that they weren't mad cause they were my sister and dad.
I do agree with you Maddie that Autism is a gift and I also agree with Dhar man that Autism can be a superpower.
From watching Through our eyes: Living with Asperger's a documentary that can be found here on TH-cam I learned that just because someone has the same form of Autism as you do they have their own sensory issues and overloads then you do and own way of coming down after a sensory overload, for me as I stated above I will try and block out the noise the best I can and if that doesn't work either I leash up the family dog and take a walk around the block, which I only did once because my nephews were having a screaming and crying fit over something that I don't remember, or I lock myself in my room put on headphones and try to block it out that way.
I wish they made "Bebe" a 2 parter. Partly because it would push back the Juneteenth episode to season 3.
i wish they showed sensory overload, or discussed communication delays, things that also exhibit in autistic youth. bebe sneaking around is possible but theres so many other things they could have thoughtfully included -sincerely an autistic adult who struggled with late diagnosis due to stigmas
Why I think is doing autism right:
Show it from the person’s perspective
Don’t paint them in an annoying or stupid light for being autistic when they don’t understand metaphors or similes
Don’t try to make the audience feel sorry for the character
Exactly, just have them be a character with autistic traits, not the token autistic character. I hear one of people's favorite examples of accidental autism in media is Captain Data from star trek.
I think you missed the second lesson of the episode which is parentification (Penny's side)? I think the episode was handling too many subjects at the same time, but I could tell that parentification, which is basically turning your child into a third/second parent, is wrong. Regardless if they are your child.
Actually being autistic myself I hated loop and felt it was horrible for the camp leader should never have left a child with a low functioning child it's not his job if this was real life you know both families would have sued.
Social skills, independence sensitivity ,repetition patterns education levels understanding that’s just some of it I have autism and still learning about it it’s hard to truly understand autism because there are different levels and each Person is different
My son is about 2 and a half and we have suspicions that he could be on the spectrum, more on the higher functioning side
My doctor doesn't like to diagnose autism till age 3 just because she's seen some grow out of certain behaviors by then
My son does the hand flapping, jumping around, running back and forth, build nests then gets mad if you mess with it, hardly ever responds to pain, he hasn't really started talking he just does gestures and hand leading, doesn't respond much to his name, but he's so smart and clever
I wouldn't care either way if he gets the diagnosis, there is nothing wrong with having autism and ill always love him just the way he is ❤
My little brother is autistic, i know he have his challenges to communicate to other and that he live in his own world sometimes, but he is happy. People think that autism is a bad thing cuz they had saw persons that have it and act violent, but forgot that they become like that because the parents doesn't act like parents to them.
I think they should be treated just the same way all people are treated; with love and respect. That includes people with others syndromes/disorders too, they aren't aliens, they are humans like you and i🪻✨.
I'm glad they tackled both parentification and autism in this episode. I also like how they didn't use most of the stereotypes associated with autism.
Asperger's is no longer a diagnosis or in the DSM-5.
The best way to describe the reboot is that it comes from a mindset that acts like none of the topics it blunders to talk about have not only been done before but often times, done better.
Louder and Prouder talks about topics so the show crew can talk about how intellectual tyry believe themselves to be. The og talked about various things mostly because it often had to but still made an effort to make the message it's own and FOR the audience.
I haven't seen this episode, just a few clips, but from I can see from your review and the clips. I find that this has good intentions but it fumbled through with the execution. I agree with you in saying that they should've either focused on Oscar and Bebe's relationship or Penny's. While I don't think it's a bad episode I do think that it needed more polish to make a good episode.
Great video as always Maddy.
Recently I read comedian Fern Brady's autobiography Strong Female Character, which strongly focuses on her life experience as someone diagnosed with autism later in life.
It's incredibly informative, emotional and overall powerful. I highly recommend anyone to read it.
I have a nephew much like Bebe, fearless and Unstoppable and likes to do a lot of extreme stuff. He's only 5 years old but within that time I have seen him. Launched himself out of his crib onto a trampoline and smack face first into the floor. Just the Laughing off. And that was just before the age of 2. Does extremist like that exist with autistic children my nephew is one but the extreme that was shown in the episode not as much. As far as Oscar and the way he handled it and how much they had him handle it. there was enough emotions there to bring me back to the moment where my brother went through those emotions and self. I cried then I cried now. But the real question is did they do the topic Justice? yes or no, they did just enough but they could have done more if they actually would cut out the nonsensical cartooniness.
First: in both this and that weird dating one covered previously (whatever that episode was called), I gotta give the props to Penny's BF (I don't remember his name). He comes across both times as the only sane person, putting forth a reasonable objection in the last one (which isn't really followed up on) and actually helping (and apparently having fun with it) in this one. He is the GOAT. While dumping your friends for a significant other is generally a bad move, in this one specific instance I think she'd be better off. Again, please do not do that in real life.
Second: when the entire conflict can be solved the the existence of a regular character who is absent without explanation, you might want to write a second draft. Sugar Moma was the high point of the old show, and they just kinda forgot about her here.
Third: This is a weird mish-mash. While there's consideration of actual ASD symptoms, they don't seem to be what cause the problems with him later. In fact it is more normal baby behavior that causes those problems. What were they going for exactly?
The opining at C 19:30 would require multiple hours to dig into in full, and I'm likely not the most qualified... I can't think of a good way to say this but here's my best attempt. In certain severe cases of ASD, what I would call 'classic disorder' cases (there's probably a more technical term), individuals are unable to function independently at all. I would hardly call that a gift. Like anything you can make the most of it, but that's not the same thing. It feels, to draw a flawed analogy, like telling someone who was blinded that they've been given a gift. They are unlikely to see it that way and even if they did they would almost certainly welcome the chance to see again.
Relatedly, ASD does have treatments in the sense of 'interventions to prevent or ameliorate undesired outcomes'. Just because it's not a chemical intervention doesn't mean it's not a treatment.
Opinion Handled Munchkin. I'm personally enjoying this Show!