i saw the title ans immediately thought "Max Barker..." he's out there trying to save the planet, bless him. we can't force talented people to do the thing they're talented at, if their heart is not in it. his videos are still up though :)
The coach you talk about is one of the best coaches you've ever had. I was very sorry to see him go. He added to Origins in ways that were worth the other shortcomings he may have had from a business perspective. He was a perfect coach, the most well-rounded, for all the reasons that you mention but also because he had so much positive energy to share. He boosted everyone around him, it came naturally to him and, as you say, his natural intuitive abilities to coach came easily to him. To the issue of keeping kids, so so many reasons they don't stay with it. In relation to sports like soccer, basketball, rugby, etc (many team sports) the cost is much less than a gym membership. This is one of the aspects that makes it difficult for some families. Not sure how that can be accommodated though. Being a niche sport sure makes it difficult--but that's the draw for many, as well as it NOT being a team sport. Yes, having regular competitions, levels to achieve, social events, definitely help. But the strongest connection is through your coaches. Being introverted has its drawbacks 🙃 I think you underestimate what impact you could have by reaching out to students on a personal level--not just the ones that reach out to you. I would love to see a class on parkour culture and history! Three times a year? It would make a difference for sure to help people feel connected to what this is, why it is, and hopefully would help people invest in it more (for themselves or in other ways) and maybe bring back some roots that seem to be slipping away. Great episode!
Also, apologies if I missed this in the convo, but there may be an element of some kids feeling like too many expectations are placed on them when they’re good - not necessarily from the coaches, but family, friends, pk community, etc.
So much points that you talked clicked on me and helped me to shape /figure out how to approach -management/retain sudent/keep interest- issues with my gym; specially 'cause i'm doing this remotely. Also within the years i figured a few "stages" of reasons that might make students quit parkour (depending on the age mostly but that could be another big subject) 1) First "bad" injury (ankle thing, shinjury, knee bump..) whithin first 6m-1y of practice. 2) First time they encounter the feeling of not progressing (wich happens in every learning curve whether they're beasts or not) After around 1y of practice 3) First time their interest starts to change (11ish-14ish yo)...other sports and or arts activities, first girlfriend/boyfriend, etc... 4) Expectation from parents (and students because of that) "My kid is not wining anything, therefore he/she's nor progressing" 5) Like you mentioned: adulthood. Time and money start to pull them from training. Of course it's not possible to cover all reasons and each case needs to be approached as unique but in general, parkour people that went through all this (or most of it) during their journey will stay in parkour (not necessarily at acompetitive level)
I think it's folly to compare Parkour to team sports in trying to solve retention issues. As a kid, I always hated organized team sports. I played on baseball, soccer, and basketball teams in middle school and never enjoyed any of it. It was mostly my dad thinking that I would be into the same things he was when he was growing up and signing me up for those sports for me. He wasn't entirely wrong. I am into the same things he was when he was a kid - it just isn't sports, it's comics and movies. I never liked how people started to call Parkour a sport, primarily. To me, it isn't a sport, it's an art. I believe it can be several different things, depending on the interests of the practitioner. It's an art, it's a sport, and it's a fitness activity. (kinda made sense to have three different names for it, back in the day...) The cool thing about it is you can practice it as any combination of those things or just one of them. What I'm trying to say is that there are some kids who get into Parkour because of its artistic aspects. For them, viewing it merely as a sport might be what drives them away. I would have loved Parkour as a kid because of all the ways it differs from sports, all the things you mention in the video that Parkour doesn't do (yet). A more analogous activity, to me, is skating. Unless you're looking at competitions, there's not a lot of structure or formal rules. What they're more interested in is applying whatever skills they've learned to new environments. This is the same thing I find the most fun about progressing in Parkour. Some people don't like open world video games because they want more direction and clearer goals and paths. Others like the freeform experimentation that such a game presents. Parkour is the same way. You danced around this fact when you suggested introducing kids to the culture and showing them videos. I think that's the right path for some kids. Obviously, the burnout from high expectations and lack of marked progression, etc. is a factor for other kids, but there's more than one type of kid. It might not make sense from a gym business standpoint, but maybe introducing them to new environments outside and stimulating their creativity would help. If all Parkour had to offer was some sort of skill level badge, organized competitions, and designated areas for practicing, I would probably not have stayed interested in it for very long.
There is room for both sport and art in parkour just as in skating, snow sports, or even rock climbing. However, the cultural/artistic side of parkour is much more established than the sport side of parkour. What's great about parkour is that you can choose the path that works best for you, but that only works when it exists. If you have naturally competitive tendencies, but are lacking the outlet to express it (competition), then you may choose to favour an alternative activity that enables your preferred expression instead of parkour such as a team sport or even an individual sport that is more established. At the end of the day, you are right that there is more than one type of kid and there is more than one reason they may quit parkour, but parkour is most definitely viewed as a sport by many and I don't think that it is unreasonable to compare it to other more established sports when evaluating retention. -Tom
omg at first I read the first part of your comment and thought "that's b's, please don't start putting regulations like with belts on parkour" but the shoe laces thingy is actually genius and sounds like so much fun, might try that on my own shoes (like changing the color whenever i break through a huge challenge)
So informative thank you!
i saw the title ans immediately thought "Max Barker..."
he's out there trying to save the planet, bless him. we can't force talented people to do the thing they're talented at, if their heart is not in it. his videos are still up though :)
The coach you talk about is one of the best coaches you've ever had. I was very sorry to see him go. He added to Origins in ways that were worth the other shortcomings he may have had from a business perspective. He was a perfect coach, the most well-rounded, for all the reasons that you mention but also because he had so much positive energy to share. He boosted everyone around him, it came naturally to him and, as you say, his natural intuitive abilities to coach came easily to him.
To the issue of keeping kids, so so many reasons they don't stay with it. In relation to sports like soccer, basketball, rugby, etc (many team sports) the cost is much less than a gym membership. This is one of the aspects that makes it difficult for some families. Not sure how that can be accommodated though. Being a niche sport sure makes it difficult--but that's the draw for many, as well as it NOT being a team sport. Yes, having regular competitions, levels to achieve, social events, definitely help. But the strongest connection is through your coaches. Being introverted has its drawbacks 🙃 I think you underestimate what impact you could have by reaching out to students on a personal level--not just the ones that reach out to you.
I would love to see a class on parkour culture and history! Three times a year? It would make a difference for sure to help people feel connected to what this is, why it is, and hopefully would help people invest in it more (for themselves or in other ways) and maybe bring back some roots that seem to be slipping away.
Great episode!
What Jane said 😉
Also, apologies if I missed this in the convo, but there may be an element of some kids feeling like too many expectations are placed on them when they’re good - not necessarily from the coaches, but family, friends, pk community, etc.
@@whatiswithsteph 😊
So much points that you talked clicked on me and helped me to shape /figure out how to approach -management/retain sudent/keep interest- issues with my gym; specially 'cause i'm doing this remotely.
Also within the years i figured a few "stages" of reasons that might make students quit parkour (depending on the age mostly but that could be another big subject)
1) First "bad" injury (ankle thing, shinjury, knee bump..) whithin first 6m-1y of practice.
2) First time they encounter the feeling of not progressing (wich happens in every learning curve whether they're beasts or not) After around 1y of practice
3) First time their interest starts to change (11ish-14ish yo)...other sports and or arts activities, first girlfriend/boyfriend, etc...
4) Expectation from parents (and students because of that) "My kid is not wining anything, therefore he/she's nor progressing"
5) Like you mentioned: adulthood. Time and money start to pull them from training.
Of course it's not possible to cover all reasons and each case needs to be approached as unique but in general, parkour people that went through all this (or most of it) during their journey will stay in parkour (not necessarily at acompetitive level)
It's true! I'm not talented at parkour and have been doing it for 16 years!
Please do a episode on pitching
I think it's folly to compare Parkour to team sports in trying to solve retention issues. As a kid, I always hated organized team sports. I played on baseball, soccer, and basketball teams in middle school and never enjoyed any of it. It was mostly my dad thinking that I would be into the same things he was when he was growing up and signing me up for those sports for me. He wasn't entirely wrong. I am into the same things he was when he was a kid - it just isn't sports, it's comics and movies. I never liked how people started to call Parkour a sport, primarily. To me, it isn't a sport, it's an art. I believe it can be several different things, depending on the interests of the practitioner. It's an art, it's a sport, and it's a fitness activity. (kinda made sense to have three different names for it, back in the day...) The cool thing about it is you can practice it as any combination of those things or just one of them.
What I'm trying to say is that there are some kids who get into Parkour because of its artistic aspects. For them, viewing it merely as a sport might be what drives them away. I would have loved Parkour as a kid because of all the ways it differs from sports, all the things you mention in the video that Parkour doesn't do (yet). A more analogous activity, to me, is skating. Unless you're looking at competitions, there's not a lot of structure or formal rules. What they're more interested in is applying whatever skills they've learned to new environments. This is the same thing I find the most fun about progressing in Parkour. Some people don't like open world video games because they want more direction and clearer goals and paths. Others like the freeform experimentation that such a game presents. Parkour is the same way.
You danced around this fact when you suggested introducing kids to the culture and showing them videos. I think that's the right path for some kids. Obviously, the burnout from high expectations and lack of marked progression, etc. is a factor for other kids, but there's more than one type of kid. It might not make sense from a gym business standpoint, but maybe introducing them to new environments outside and stimulating their creativity would help. If all Parkour had to offer was some sort of skill level badge, organized competitions, and designated areas for practicing, I would probably not have stayed interested in it for very long.
There is room for both sport and art in parkour just as in skating, snow sports, or even rock climbing. However, the cultural/artistic side of parkour is much more established than the sport side of parkour. What's great about parkour is that you can choose the path that works best for you, but that only works when it exists. If you have naturally competitive tendencies, but are lacking the outlet to express it (competition), then you may choose to favour an alternative activity that enables your preferred expression instead of parkour such as a team sport or even an individual sport that is more established. At the end of the day, you are right that there is more than one type of kid and there is more than one reason they may quit parkour, but parkour is most definitely viewed as a sport by many and I don't think that it is unreasonable to compare it to other more established sports when evaluating retention.
-Tom
I always thought it would be cool parkour had a belt system like martial arts but instead it was with different colored shoe laces
omg at first I read the first part of your comment and thought "that's b's, please don't start putting regulations like with belts on parkour" but the shoe laces thingy is actually genius and sounds like so much fun, might try that on my own shoes (like changing the color whenever i break through a huge challenge)