Yeah, hopefully they'll be more open to it since we're done with the 40th anniversary of gundam and gunpla so Sunrise might be slowing down on UC projects (assuming there aren't some I'm just not aware of being made) and they finished their latest build series so they have schedule openings. Nevermind the prospect of Bandai selling close to 5 dozen gundam kits and who knows how many mobile armors. C'mon guys shit practically prints money!
Yeah, I am all for this! We only got to see a handful of the Gundams, so if anything else, it would give some mecha designers out there a really wide canvas to build some unique designs! Also can't lie, it would be a giant underdog story to see the beginnings of Gjallahorn and their process of building 72 frames and naming them all after demons. Then the actual campaigns and battles! Mikazuki had to injure himself significantly (partial paralysis) to beat one mobile armor alone. Did Gundams in that era end up 'eating' pilots?? Was there a list of people willing to pilot a Gundam that was getting harder and harder to find candidates for? We all saw how even one mobile armor was enough to send TWO nearby Gundams into shutdown! Plus, 72 Gundams means 24 teams of 3 units each, so you have lots of character dynamics possible amongst Gundam pilots, their supporting team members, and any other non-Gundam pilots using more standard units. Yeah, next IBO series NEEDS to be about Calamity War. Easiest win for Gundam ever, in my book!
I agree, but they were also children. All of which lived on an impoverished planet who were forced to grow up as soldiers without a good parental figure in their most important developmental years. They saw a chance to take what they never had and they did it at any costs. Rustal and Mcgillis ultimately manipulated children into doing what they want. They were ultimately the villains.
And the antagonist"good guys" lié, steal, awaken sky Net, commitment war, after , after war crime, after war crime. Create what seems to be a politically corrupt political dysnasty immediatly, and rich boy kid who had to be bettayed and lose it all gets it all back plus more and does nothing him self to make the world a better place. The lesión of knee to the system that made you a suave to chewing you up and spit you out because you didnt "play ball" doesnt really jive with me. Tekaden did some bad things to fight for a better world, the evil corrupt gahlerhorn faction fought to keep the status quo and just put a new label on it.
Also, on the "war crime" front, let's not forget that Rustal had a false flag operative shoot a single Dainsleif at his fleet as an excuse to unleash his entire Dainsleif unit (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Agreed, Tekkadan were basically made into villains by being pawns for the real villains. But it highlights really well that no side commands a moral high ground in war, and history is written by the victors. McGillis was obviously a villain, but if he'd won Tekkadan would have won. Rustal wasn't much better, wanting to maintain the status quo, but his crimes are forgiven by triumphing over McGillis.
If you look at it, Orga getting a bit more impulsive ever since Biscuit's (basically their "voice of reason") death in S1 kind of foreshadowed Tekkadan's inevitable doom at the end of S2 (which is full of rash moves by Orga). I love season 2 despite its imperfections, although I do agree that the same was a bit rushed.
@@muchluck7981 True. The only problem with Orga, and what basically led to Tekkadan's downfall at the end of S2, was his rashness as seen in him taking "the shortest route" possible without actually considering the possible consequences. Without Biscuit to serve as his voice of reason, no one else stood the chance to talk some sense to Orga before it was too late.
I thought a thing IBO was trying to do was similar to what Wing touched on but didn't dwell on; namely, while giant robot series tend to naturally have plucky teen pilots for the audience to relate to, being a child soldier messes you the hell up. Mika is a once-in-a-century talent, able to awaken a legendary machine to its full potential in a way no one else can. He can do this not because he is genetically unique or spiritually superior, but because he has no regard for his own safety as a child soldier who was subjected to inhumane technology. Mika's life experience means he doesn't really have a conscience a lot of the time; he relies on Orga for a sense of right and wrong and Orga's own perspective is skewed because while he is a smart kid who wants to look after his found family, he was raised in a might-makes-right system where anything worth having must be taken-and defended-with violence. I feel like the fact Julieta tries to ask what cause Mika could possibly have that keeps him going when he should already be dead only to realize Mika doesn't understand the question is significant. McGillis and Julieta both try to establish some sort of rapport with Mika; McGillis is disappointed and repulsed by the realization the kid he's so interested in doesn't really have anything in common with him at all besides them both being traumatized, and Julieta understanding she's fighting someone who was never raised to view anything but violence as a valid choice turns victory to ashes in her mouth. I thought it was also interesting that the antagonists, despite your framing of them as hero antagonists, are ALSO punished harshly for choosing to escalate violence rather than seek peace. Orga GIVES UP. He is willing to show his belly and surrender unconditionally to Rustal to keep his family alive; Rustal refuses because he's not done slaughtering them to make an example of anyone that picks a fight with Gjallerhorn. His decision to do this, however, prompts Mika's last stand, and what should have been a quiet end to McGillis's sad little rebellion turns into a nightmarish slaughter; dozens of Rustal's men die unnecessarily, Iok is butchered, Julieta is lucky to still be alive, and ultimately Iok's demise is a deathblow to the system Rustal was trying to uphold. He's forced to accept change he did not want because his decision to escalate and retaliate turned around and bit him. Maybe not as badly as Orga's decision to start a fight, but still.
So rustal is forced to make changes because there is no other way for 7 stars council to still working (kujan, Fareed, etc is ended) I though he really want to make democratic gjalahorn from the start
Two things. First, you failed to mention how the Barbatos became more monstrous as the series progressed. Sort of a mirror to what Tekkadan had become. Second, I never saw McGillis as a tyrant. McGillis is an idealist and a product of the corrupt system he wished to overthrow. His character is beautifully fleshed out. McGillis became merciless as a means of survival and his love for the legend of Bael came as a means to mentally cope with the abuse he was subjected to. The same can be said for Tekkadan. Both are products of their environment and both wished to change things for the better.
Barbatos and Bael are both named after demons and it's almost as if Barbatos is slowly beginning to possess Mika. Along with the design getting more monstrous Mika's actions and the amount of power Barbatos grants him until Mika can no longer move without being connected to the Gundam.
This. People tend to forget that McGillis is also a victim of the Space Debris system, buried under a mountain of trauma and surrounded by people who perpetuated his abuse (or are at least a symbol of it). Like Tekkadan, his entire life has taught him that the only way out is through force or manipulation, and in a way it's true. He can't be like Kudelia, who is a product of her privileged life and upbringing as a human being afforded actual human dignity. Choosing the peaceful option and "working within the system" requires trust, and we can't expect people like McGillis to have that trust in a system that trampled him underfoot and caged him with his rapist.
I completely agree. Although the 'protagonist' we follow in IBO are seen as the bad guys by the 'antagonist'? They are very much FORCED into that prospect due to both their environment and the situations they were pushed into by people from Season 1. They merely took the only path available to them in order to achieve their goal because quite literally? Every other path was cut off from them. So it was either "We stop what we are doing and go back to what we used to be" or "Keep going no matter what". The way I look at it? There are no good guys, or bad guys. No Heroes, no villains in this series. No side was without sin and everyone could only do what they could based on their given situations.
To be honest, I think what S2 says about Tekkedan is less of them becoming the villain, and more of showing that in the system that is in place, these characters who know nothing BUT violence and war never would be able to prosper if they didn't learn how to live in a time of (relative) peace, and it's not just Tekkedan that shows this, it's McGillis and a few others too, showing that valuing nothing but absolute might as a means to your goal is doomed to fail, even if the cause at first is noble.
Especially in Mika's case. Even from the first episodes, we see he is a no-nonsense protagonist who basically just uses brute strength in any situation and probably wouldn't be able to stop being a gundam pilot. I wouldn't be surprised if they said he was a sociopath
As a friend and I agreed when discussing the history of revolutions: The kind of person who is willing to fight a violent revolutionary conflict is generally the last person who should be in charge of building the state that follows.
It's not entirely that, but rather who has authority to use violence. And the show absolutely does reafirm that might makes right. Rustal and Gjallarhorn forces use absolute power to dominate whoever oposes them, like the Dort workers or McgGillis' forces, until the very end and never break away from this theme. The ending reafirms that anyone can function normally regardless how much violence they engaged in. Julietta is the mirror reflection of Mika on Gh's side, just as servile and fanatical, yet she's perfectly suited to rule the whole damn thing apparently, because she stood on the side of power and authority, which in IBO universe is everything.
IBO was really a rollercoaster of an anime and is one of my favorite animes right now. I really love that it's getting a lot of attention now, Cause it definitely deserves it!
Agreed. I love IBO to this day and even after watching shows like 00, Unicorn and Narrative, I still love IBO to this day. The way the fights are done to the way it blends politics with action. I just love IBO the most.
@@muchluck7981 honestly dude agreed it was actually my first Gundam that I actually watched and paid attention to and I just loved it from the fact that they use really primitive tech (like bullets and bladed weapons) to the politics and conflicts the cast goes through it's just amazing!! ALSO AKIHIRO IS JACKED that basically does it for me lol (maybe I should make a vidoe on IBO)
I would say " The iron flower that never wilts, that bloomed on a battlefield and was stained red. The flower persisted even with all blood that was spilled until it finally shattered."
For me it's "history is written by the victors." By the final conflict between Tekkadan and Ghallahorn there really we're no good guys and bad guys, just factions maligned by thier own politics with thier own good and bad actors within them driving the goals and identity of thier organizations and those actors being driven by good and bad themselves. Both organizations used underhanded tactics and the weight of thier comrades demise was felt by those closest to them. Ultimately both Tekkadan and Ghallahjorn sought the reigns of the world but in the end of the conflict Ghallahorn's power structure remained the most intact and they proceeded the work of creating order to the world via mostly peaceful and democratic means like the world we live in today. Therefore according to the world, thier ideals must be correct and Tekkadan were in fact the villains however bearing witness to thier story we know it to be deeper than that. This is some timeless sh*t and is some of the best story telling and deconstruction of the human experience that's ever been told. It's astounding to me what the human mind is capable of creating and how we've just come to expect it from this genre.
@@Wolfman7870 honestly if you said a writer being a simp to the VA ended up changing the ending and bringing back that dead character because she like the VA then I don't think that is good storytelling. Even the death were forced, they try making me sad for such forced drama,heck no.
So what you’re saying is IBO is pretty much “you either die as the hero or you live long enough to see you’re self die as the villain.” But in this case are protagonist technically did become kinda the antagonist
Your quote is correct, and probably the best summation of what the plot of IBO is. I'm sure there's also a quote about being obsessed with power that would apply too. But just a small correction. a protagonist is just the leading character of a story and the antagonist is the character opposing them. There's not actually any requirement for being good or evil. Tekkadan, more specifically Orga and Mikazuki, are always the protagonists, even when they become the villains of the story.
@@Jaynesslessly True. But both sides can be considered villains. One doesn't have to be the hero. Both sides here make very questionable decisions. Whether we are talking about the manipulations of McGillis or the use of banned weapons like the Dainsleif
@@user-nv9vi9de8p but they do become villians, humans by all means but still villians. They seeked to impose their views over others, taking "the fastest route" as Orga calls it, and facing the consequences of it in way of their failures. This series works as a warning to the line of "the line between light and darkness is so thin yet so distant "
Man this show was such an amazing slow burn. The last fight always brings me to tears. The build up and pay off is some of the best I've seen in modern anime. They could not live in the world that they wanted to create and died for their sins. The ultimate martyrdom. Thank you for video essay of this show. It deserves it.
That feeling when you realize that you've been rooting for child soilders employed by the mafia that are argublably terrorists trying to take down the UN....Mika is pretty damn cool though. Favorite gundam series next to the original....and G....
but it is really their fault from the get-go...That's what I love about this series feels more realistic, there is no right or wrong, war is just meaningless death, there is no right or wrong just people being people, getting unlucky, treated unfairly, and fall into the same loop and do the same to others. just humans being humans, we will never change because of it. Super cool concept "from the skies they see war, but on earth, there is only carnage" 10 points if you know where that quote is from.
Personally I had the opposite experience. I realized pretty quickly what Tekkaden where. Then one character’s death was foreshadowed. Then it took several episodes for them to get shot. All while i’m being force fed their backstory. By the point of episode 16 I was completely disinterested and dropped the series. Maybe I’ll like it better when I’m further into gundam. I’ve only watched Origin, Wing, 00, Mobile suit Gundam, 08th squad, and war in the pocket.
IBO was the first Gundam series I watched fully; imagine my dismay when I went on to discover the different timelines and universes wanting to watch the franchise from the beginning after that.
@@akou12 I didn't say they weren't I am just sad it isn't one continuous timeline. IBO is still my favorite but I am really enjoying the others as a catch up on the franchise
@@icheatinexam5606 I was powering through the UC timeline and got up to victory then I decided to start watching some of the AU timelines so watching 00 right now
When I watched this I honestly felt it natural, everything developed in ways I always found natural, likely to happen, it always hit hard, and to be a Gundam series, this one was pretty bitter, it felt like an actual war, fought for dreams and desperation, you could feel the sadness and the malincony just as much as the hope every member of the crew carried with them, or at least, that's what I felt. It HAS to be one of my favourite Gundam series
Except that torso-hip connection. Of course, that's a problem with all the mobile suits in the series. Those things would fly apart the first speedy turn.
@@itsdantaylor the magic laser swords really put me off from gundam anything but this series has really pulled me in because it's well animated and combat follows a logic of pilot kills over mech kills
I know season 2 isn't perfect, but I love it still. It feel more like a tragedy. A group I think was doomed from the on set. A group that grew too fast. That got intertwined with the wrong people, but it seemed like the world was egging them on. In the end they get back on the right path though and that's is why they succeed in saving whom they can. That is why they get a happy ending, realtive to what most bad guys get. I mean the remaining members get away with everything and get to still be a family in the admoss company. It also shows that the lengths of what people will think is right for his family. Orga wanted to make a world that he thought was best for his family. In the end it ruined them.
It could be pulled of much better. Entire plan of mcgillis was a mess, and that came just after he masterfully manipulated every fraction in this entire universe to put himself on top.
Would a Monarchy led by barley literature child warlords be better than the fascists of Galahorn? Debatable, but probably wouldn't last long, they were alteast trying to sieze the initiative to make there home a better place by the only means they ever knew
@@acidous I like that actually. while it may be easy to weave your way through the inner workings of a political group to gain more power, the problem becomes what to do after you gain that power.
"I'm not saying they're the good guys" AHAHAHAHA thank goodness. Iok was consistently a horrible person. All of his actions had a tendency of being morally black, with barely any, if any, grey at all. All the while he praises himself as a hero while performing heinous acts while believing himself in the right, and what's worse is that _it doesn't help his faction in any way whatsoever._ Innocent lives were lost because of his pride, his evil acts, and most importantly, his stupidity and inability to self reflect. "IBO has room for a sequel" And a prequel!
@@Sandrock313 More like there's a reason why the various video clips of his death, up to and _including_ the ones where it loops his death over and over has a high view count.
Loved the video. I can't bring myself to see Tekkadan as villains. Even after your explanation of this dynamic as a framing device. I agree Orga and McGillis made some awful mistakes and decisions. But these characters, and all of Tekkadan, were stripped of their humanity by the world for simply existing. The world's status that Gjallarhorn upholds is wrong from the outset, they created and maintain the world and Tekkadan were a group of oppressed and distressed children trying to make a way in that world. And the adults from the beginning til the end were bad faith actors imposing their continued oppression. Even keeping in mind your framing for "villains and heroes"I don't think there are villains in IBO just the awful world that would allow/encourage impoverished enslaved children soldiers along with those who would uphold this status quo, and those would go against it. Maybe not honorably, but you shouldn't need to be honorable to fight for your right to live as a human especially in a world that doesn't see you as human. It's a good thematic framing device, that I agree with and like, that falls short when taking into account Gjallarhorn is a bigger villain that created the world that instigated the situation Tekkadan found themselves in. Also they're kids, I'm not gonna be too harsh and call children villains for wanting to do things the fast/easy way, they wouldn't know any better.
The point is that they knew what they were doing is bad. Orga has reached his goal of giving them a home by the end of part 1. Tekkadan sides with the devil who betrayed and used everyone to further his own goal and at that point became the villains of the series
Im not disagreeing with the points made in the video, nor am I saying Tekkadan or Orga didn't make bad decisions. What I am saying is that there's a more interesting conversation in the show about the relationship of oppressors and the oppressed. And to reduce that dynamic to heroes and villains when Tekkadan is operating as "moral" (if not a little more so) as their adversaries isn't doing the material justice.
Thrdwrld32 the reason why he didn’t go on about that part was that isn’t the part where most people got mad about. It’s the second season where Tekkadan lost is. A lot of people didn’t understand why the roles where swapped over and started to rage about it.
I absolutely agree with this. Though flawed, I never saw McGillis or Tekkadan as villains. Both are products of the status quo and both wished to change things for the better. Though Boofire does do a good job of pointing out that their methodology is what leads to their demise, their intentions were still noble and is the reason why in the end they were all vindicated. Gaelio even admits to this in his conversation with Julieta. In season 2, Tekkadan and Fareed's actions made them look like the villain but the real villain is still Gjallarhorn and corrupt system they were enforcing.
@@carlsberg-gs6rl mcgillis died trying his best to fix a broken and corrupt system the only way something that flawed could be fixed. I still love the heck out of his character, but i feel like gailleo wouldve helped mcgillis if he hadnt betrayed him first
Honestly, IBO got me back into the Gundam franchise because it was so different to what my expectations were. After rewatching gundam wing, seed, and OO it made me appreciate what IBO did even more
Good analysis but really painting Tekkadan as the villains doesn’t seem right. The Earth Federation’s Gjalldarhorn were definitely the enemies of both seasons. If they were “good guys” they wouldn’t have let the situation on Mars deteriorate to the point that it did especially since they had essentially a monopoly on defence.
Personally I think both sides were the villains in ibo season 2, ellion and the Ariadne fleet went to the point of framing tekkadan and mcgillis by in planting a mole with a illegal weapon which in my mind is equal to the crimes and mcgillis’s intentions. The fact that he went to that length just so they could slaughter the enemy is objectively wrong imo
I was going to say are we just going to gloss over the fact that human debris and basically slavery were allowed to exist on mars in the first place? Sure, if gjallarhorn were a completely innocent organization it would be a different story, but to say tekkadan is evil in themselves rather than being manipulated, is a few steps too far.
I think calling Tekkadan "evil" and "villains" are two different things. Certainly they were never evil, and "villains" is a relative term. Since Rustal prevailed, McGillis and his faction were labelled the villains. Tekkadan was essentially villainized by their actions under McGillis, and being on the losing side. History is written by the victor.
I think a better more exact way of seeing this is "Kids with too much power, get in way over their heads" Remember most of the characters here are between 12-16 years old and got ahold of Very powerful weapons, and it shows how Power can corrupt, even more so for children, plus it also shows how children/teens are easily manipulated by others into thinking 'Its the right thing to do" and Children/Teens think more emotionally than logically hence some of the brutal and dumb choices they make. Plus the ending could have been on Kill em all Tomino level, but luckly most of the people working on it protested and said that was too cruel. So we got possibly the best ending for Tekadan. I often call this series "The Berserk of MSG" As its dark and gritty as heck and deals with heavy materials like Berserk, heck some of the characters are similar to Berserk characters (HELL ONE OF THEM WE JOKINGLY CALL TEEN GUTS!) I personally Prefer IBO Over Build Divers any day honestly, Hot button topic I know
@@TheKing-qz9wd Yeah I could go over everything on Why I don't like the Build Divers series, Its a rather petty as crap reason too >n>; I was Actually fine with Build Fighters and I Adored Build Fighters Tri, but Divers and Especially Re:Rise Rubs me in all the wrong ways If I will complement the crap out of however its All the Gundam Designs they are 11/10 awesome and yeah I would like to get Gunpla of them.
@@lionheart1013 I actually disliked all of the build series. I will take advantage of the opprutunities provided though, as they can get us updated kits that are better than ever if we are lucky.
So basically... "When the guys committing war crimes get the good-guy plot armor and you're stuck with frustrating failure, you should probably re-think your ideals"
... Really they were cattle to throw away in wars or as labor. They're fight for they're survival and to make a place for them seems to go over your head. It shows how easy and simple your life seems. It's easy to look down and make other people's life decisions seem wrong when you yourself have never had to go through. Buy I'm sure you won't use the old you don't know me troupe rather then fully explain why these guys were evil.
@@devildavin history is written by the victors. You win, all of your war crimes are swept under the rug. If anyone complains, call them liars, arrest ot kill anyone that wants to uncover the secrets.
OK, so the fans may have IBO pretty hyped-up, but I still feel the series is underrated in the size o its fanbase relative to other Gundam. Personally I still feel it's of higher writing quality than more popular series like Wing, SEED, ect, but that's obviously subjective. I've always felt that Gundam's strength was at its more serious end, like in Zeta and 08th MS Team, hence why I like IBO's grittier and more grounded angle...
I love the critical fail moments of IBO, it hammers home the overall grittier and less forgiving tone that the series is going for. It fits with the overall theme, being that pure will and determination is not enough to solve all problems. Sometimes you gotta use a screwdriver instead of a hammer, but Tekkadan kept using a hammer to solve its problems. It's not a failure of Tekkadan, it's just all they know. They're a bunch of traumatized child soldiers doing the only thing they know, which is fight for their survival.
IBO by far is one of the most grounded AU in the series, specially in the end when there's no space magic bullshit to pull off was a breath of fresh air, truely unlike any other gundam.
IBO represents the heros failing? Good in real life the "good guys" dont always win, sometimes bad choices lead to disastrous outcomes and smart people can go on to do dumb things when stuff finally starts going their way. Everything past Turn-A has had a really difficult time of not doing the old "Heros ride off into the sunset" thing even Turn-A for how few causalities and world ending events it had still ended on a somber bittersweet tone that was just so Gundam in the best possible way. Orga and Mcgilis were memorable characters because they were flawed human beings, and I certainly will remember them long after I forget the casts of shows like SEED or 00.
It's not them losing that's the problem. People can take bitter endings in Gundam, they're not something new and revolutionary. The problem is that this ending wasn't earned. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the ending. Granted, I enjoyed it because I never actually liked any of the fuckers except maybe Lafter and Space Guts (and even then, not that much), but I enjoyed it nonetheless. All the same, I can't call what happened realistic so much as a mid-season swap of plot armor and bullshit from Tekkadan over to Gjallarhorn.
@@laststrike4411 indeed, feels like it wanted to be zeta but didnt earned it before finding this video on recommended, i had forgotten about this series lol
I love what this series and the second season in particular does with McGillis and Gaelio. You're lured by the standard Gundam tropes and they two are obviously intended to be expies of Char and Garma. But by the second season, you see what Char would be if he didn't have an infinite supply of luck and plot armor in McGillis. McGillis is a deconstruction of Char in so many ways and a parody of him in others. He is LITERALLY MARRIED TO A LITTLE GIRL by the second season. And in his final confrontation with Gaelio, his chance to kill Gaelio is foiled first by companionship and loyalty (Gaelio's attachment to Ein), which Char never completely discarded. And then McGillis is betrayed by Char's own mythology- Gaelio wears his mask to their final duel and blocks McGillis' last bullet with it. It's just perfect.
@@Joshua_N-A pretty much gaelio in a nutshell... which is awesome cause we havent seen this before and it was well done despite not being the OG plan with the character (death in S1)
A lot of Gundam Series have politics akin to those of the 19th Century where rich families care more about marrying equally in status/wealth than things like age. You see similar political alliances & situations to those that existed 150 years ago. I believe the marriage was meant to show the kind of world they were living in & keep in mind that Mcgillis wanted to change that world. Everyone Tekkaden allied with wanted to change the corrupt & stagnant solar system ruled by Gjallarhorn. Naze made it his goal to save girls from prostitution, Kudelia wanted to end all the exploitation & help everyone.
Shino missing that shot was bullshit. Juliet threw a sword while fighting Mika that perfectly hit the target just enough to make the shot miss. That's like hitting a bullseye on a dartboard mounted on a bullet train while you fight Connor McGregor.
Beggining of season 2 is beautiful irony. They were so effective, everyone and their mother started reincorporating child soldiers into their ranks. One other thing you didn't mention, the 300 year old calamity war gets told through bits of dialogue and worldbuilding, no flashbacks. What do I mean? A few hints. AV system can only be done on children. The operation is faulty and wasn't developed for 300 years, so the 72 Gundam pilots stood atop a mountain of children. The way the machine makes you fight beyond death (final fight, when the 3 axes hit, Mika has his neck break and he continues operating), as well as seeing one of the mobile armors and why the Gundams here are what they are. Also, I always considered it a story of greys, Children fighting for their dreams, going by their broken logic, Tekkadan for a strange concept of a promised land seen by the broken eyes of an abused child soldier, as well as McGillis and his belief in legends, versus the cold realist Rustal Ellion (one of my fav characters), and the people who follow him to their grave, as well as the final realization of how pointless the fight was, as all 3 sides in this conflict were going for the same goal, just different roads. It's one of my top 10 of all time shows, so I'm a bit biased, but now you get your sub for talking about this underappreciated gem. :) Great analysis, and I was stunned that people find s2 bad for some odd reason.
I too was shocked to hear that people generally don't like season 2. It felt rushed and disappointing, but not bad. I can't agree with you on Rustal (he's a dick), but it's also one of my favorite shows.
I thought Rustal was 1 of the corrupt members of Gjallerhorn & his actions were definitely those of a villain. Keep in mind cutting off an enemy's chance to surrender is a huge war crime & he used outlawed weapons to slaughter child soldiers. I actually expect him to try awful things when working with Kudelia in the epilogue.
While I wouldn’t call season 2 bad, I would call it nothing more than a disappointment mascerating as a good story by using gundams “anti-war” message as meta to influence the series in such a stupid way. By giving the antagonists broken plot armor, failing to demonstrate why we should at all see Rustal and the other antagonists as “heroes” unless you look at it from an idiotic meta perspective. And if you think I’m wrong lemme ask you this. I have two questions. 1.) If iron blooded orphans was not a gundam series and instead was a stand alone mecha series, and if it was made in the exact same way, would you have enjoyed it? 2.) If iron blooded orphans was the first ever gundam series demonstrating gundams “anti-war” message and yet it was made the exact same way, would you still have enjoyed it? Personally I think not. Don’t use Meta to to drive the plot of your series and especially don’t use it to ruin the objective qualities of it so that you can demonstrate a messily gundam message about how broken plot armor is good as long as your going to kill the people who wanted to reform the corrupt system that brought so much hell to the world in the first place. There is no indication that Rustal ever wanted to change Ghallerhorn for the better as there is no indication that he even cares alittle bit about the public’s view and their opressive circumstances. He only changes because the past system of Gjallerhorn became broken by the hands of McGillis and Tekkaden, and therefore without them he would have never changed the system for the better. If the writers of the series really wanted to make the antagonists the heroes they should have made them morally superior in every way. Instead of simply giving them broken plot armor and a measly excuse to change the system for the better peacefully.
IIRC the AV system only works on children now because it’s dangerous and their bodies haven’t fully developed yet, meaning their bodies couldn’t fight the less effective AV system. However in the past the system was fully researched and could be done on adults (as shown by McGillis having a working AV system for use in Bael).
I like IBO for its very dark setting and how it ended. There was no "happy ending" to it, which was all for the better. Tekkadan ended up doing very questionable things, even before starting up as that group. While it would have been awesome to see more characters redeemed, the ones we have left definitely suffice. But of course the mystery behind the Calamity War is very much still a big thing. Like for example the Gundam Frames. 72 were created, yet we've only seen a few, rebuilt ones that have survived the war against the Mobile Armor. So it is still unknown as to how many are left. In the anime, we got Barbatos, followed by Gusion, then season 1 ending with showing off Kimaris, which would be re-designated as Vidar up until season 2. And that season gave us Gundam Flauros and Bael. Then you have the spin off manga, IBO GEKKO, which gave us a few more Gundam Frames to look at. Primarily Gundam Astaroth and Vual as the primary machines.
Honestly i feel like Hush was the Most relatable, he didnt belive in tekkadan at first then gave his life in Battle for trying to become a badass like mikazuki, he gets my Saulte, even if they where in the wrong.
Hush's death was one of the saddest for me. I didn't really pay much attention to him or care much about him throughout the series. But he questioned what they were fighting for and eventually joined in and became a true part of the 'family' of Tekkadan. Only to be killed in a battle that didn't need to be fought.
Wow, you perfectly put into words what made this series so different, and gave me an epiphany about this whole series. I was a huge fan of 008 war in the pocket (oav) because of the striking contrast of the story and erasing the lines of what is good and what is evil, and reminds us we are all humans with human flaws, ambitions, ideas, egos and desires.
McGillis was supposed to be the 500IQ smartest guy ever lived in the series. His plan to conquering the world was, me got Freedom, me very strong, me is Jesus Yamato.
TBH, the series makes it pretty clear that, while that's how he views himself, his greatest success only became possible due to his patience, _despite_ how idiotically simplistic the actual plan was... The guy waited his whole life for a chance to betray his "father" and jumped at it the moment he saw the opportunity... which might also explain why he suddenly has zero patience by the second season.
@@themercifulguard3971 He thought that if Barbartos was this strong, then Bael is a lot far stronger as it's the first Gundam Frame and piloted by Agnika Kaieru.
Thanks so much for explaining how I felt in words. I have been unreasonably emotional about ibo, but had no way of expressing it. You have given my feelings form.
When Biscuit and Maze died, you can already sense that Tekkadan would fall or at least major characters from the group would. The final nail in the coffin was when they more or less partnered with McGillis.
If I may, would it have made more sense if McGillis either A) Stayed behind and somehow won the blockade through his tact mixed with Tekaden's brutality. B) Just made a B-line to the enemy capital vessel and kill that general, even if he had to take Kimaris Vidar and use it as a battering ram? It actually wouldn't be that hard considering their high speed and impressive handling.
It also didn't make sense for Gaelio to live past the Season 1 finale. He's *_clearly_* killed by McGillis in that moment. ^ But it's all because Mari Okada (IBO's writer) had a crush on Gaelio's voice-actor.
Honestly I see this as a near perfect Gundam show. The themes are so strong and they feel as clear as any other Gundam series. The characters are complex and you can see when they're making a bad turn. Hell you can see which way Orga is going to go by the end of season one and it is entirely down to Biscuit's death. The fact that Mika feels such strong loyalty for him that he just follows blindly is so tragic and neither Orga or Mika fully understand that. And the show makes it clear that despite the bad things they do the rest of the cast do them because they don't see any other path.
one of my favourite parts about orga and mika's relationship is the fact that mika asserts himself for the first time in the series just before orga dies, and after the fact, he acts on his own accord until he dies, and asserts himself - hell, he even gains a degree of emotional awareness with the way he plays into hush's last wishes to be validated by him as he dies. orga and mika have such a beautifully illustrated codependant relationship where the two enable each others worst habits and i adore it
It;s kinda hard to describe what a gundam anime is when you have stuff like G-reco made by Tomino himself. Though I think IBO's biggest weakenss is actually McGillis' goal. Story wise it's a big deal but to us, its another gundam.
Tomino despite being the granddaddy director you can argue.... lost his way on meaning of a gundam series. He just hates what they stand for now (not just selling plastic model kits either)
Now I kind of want to rewatch, for the reason of seeing if Mikazuki's sacrifices of parts of his body align with each time Orga really screws up. I agree with you that Mika isn't really the main character here, as he doesn't have agency until the show is in its endgame. He willingly makes himself an extension of Orga's will and ambition and makes it clear that there is not a single thing he won't do or kill for his adopted brother, including his own dreams of starting a farm. Until the point where that changes, he has more in common with the other machines of war than the characters around him.
Remember that scene where Zack cried while talking about how sad it is that even though most of the guys in Tekkadan are kind and passionate, they would all end up miserable? He was literaly describing how the audience was supposed to fell and he was right.
I honestly preferred season 2. There's definitely cases of bad plot armor and rushed pacing, but I really like the ideas presented in the second season - and how melodramatic it becomes near the end as Tekkadan, completely outnumbered by an army using unfair tactics, pays the price for what they set up at the end of S1.
something that made hate ibo was interview in wich the director said that season 2 was meant to be a classic tomino kill them all like ideon but the writers got so attached to certain characters that the entire staff had to compromise and re think wich character should live and wich has to die and left the mess that season 2 was
I never thought that season 2 was too bad a mess. Personally I feel that the kill-'em-all endings in Zeta and Victory are hard to pull off well. I just get the impression that everyone died because Tomino felt like it, rather than because of anything they or the villains did. I mean, killing people is easy; finding reasons to kill them is harder; letting their survival promote proper character development, hardest of all, but most worth it.
@@algernonilfracombe generally I agree with what you have said, but many events in S2 were just insulting my intelect. Let me quote myself from the other comment - "Seriously I'm suposed to belive, that McGillis, the guy who was able to masterfully manipulate takkedan, teiwaz, Gjallarhorn and oposition inside gjallarhorn at the same time, did all of this just to get the bael, because that would crown him as the new emperor of earth? Or how Rustal, after speaking how he will destroy takkedan for political gains, was satisfied with destroying one barbatos and gusion? Or how nobody in the freaking town noticed group of 100 children in takkedan suits standing on the rooftop just after gjallarhorn broadcasted live footage of their "ultimate destruction"? It was even more stupid after you remember, that orga died near the entrance to this freaking tunel, despite the fact that nobody even knew he was in town. I didn't expect IBO to end well (tbh I was suprised how many people survived), but season 2 was almost a total disaster to me."
@acidous yeah orga wanting thinking his struggling band of mercenaries would be better off ruling mars always seemed kinda dumb tbh. Like as a small part of McGillis's reform government would make alot more sense, but what exactly McGrillis's regime would look like in practice was never explained
In my case that missed attack on season 2 make me liked even more IBO I rooted for them but it make a lot of sense that they missed. Till that point there was always a secret high risk high reward card that they pulled up and they always won because of that, so having them gamble everything for the win as always on that important battle and show that gamble fail it make sense.
The argument that Tekkaden are the villains in S2 and that Rustel's faction are the heroes falls flat when across the board Rustel and the old guard of Gjallarhorn are shown to be far more morally wrong than McGillis and Tekkaden. At best it's a conflict between two ethically wrong sides, but Rustel's faction of Gjallarhorn are not "heroes" they are not the good guys. Gjallarhorn was a corrupt authoritarian regime through and through. There's legal class discrimination allowed in the colonies. They armed the union workers with weapons that didn't work so they could have an excuse to kill them, which is also a war crime, they staged a bombing to fire on peaceful, if armed, protestors. They staged a proxy war between the SAU and Arbau, they interfered with Arbrau's elections, attempted to assassinate an innocent teenaged activist and committed war crimes such as the use of the deinsleifs and firing upon non combatants and they set up the Turbines for no reason other than petty revenge. Even Tekkaden, who are shown to be incredibly ruthless take prisoners. Gjallarhorn are by no means heroes and their actions were far worse than anything that McGillis and Tekkaden ever did. McGillis may have been making a grab for power, but he is absolutely correct that Gjallarhorn was a corrupt entity in need of reform. And Tekkaden wanting to be rulers of Mars isn't even that off base from what they were working towards in S1. What better way to gain Martian Independence than being given control of the planet by McGillis?
Rustal is "good guy" to the media. The media believed Rustal is the good guy and just find Tekkadan to be just a terrorist organization. Remember Rustal group controls the media, he is a dirty politician who use dirty tricks to achieve his goal
if tekkadan was allowed to actually become the kings of mars they would have started dropping colonies, this series is a perfect example of no matter who wins everything sucks.
Uh. . . . Anyone in their right mind would know that Tekkaden aren't that immoral to commit a hainous act like that. They arent even close. At worst they are Ammoral but not that bad. I have no idea where you got that idea from. What possible reason would they have to do that anyway? Tekkaden are quite noble if you ask me. Deposited the mistakes they've made. If anything Ghiallerhorn is more capable of something that devastating.
The second half of Season 2 felt incredibly contrived, especially since McGillis was rewritten into an idiot, because the show's creator really wanted to kill off the main cast, and not bring back Gaelio.
yeah that was my main problem. i felt like Mcgillis and Rustal were supposed to equal IQ-wise then Mcgillis gets obsessed with Bael and Agnika Kaieru legend
See I don't see Mcgillis in season 2 as dum, I see him as Char, if Char didn't have Sayla, (the remnant of a more peaceful past/life) and or the events of Zeta Gundam. Mcgillis uses his friends and comrades for his own gains and disposes of them when it benefits him. Char did that in MSG but unlike Char who took a step back, Mcgillis charged ahead. By the end it was the fact that he alienated everyone with his actions, that by the time he got the Bael, all he had was Tekkaden and even THEY wanted to leave him at the end.
@@itsdantaylor He was absolutely dumb. His entire plan can be summarized by 1. Get into Gundam Bael which by the show's story there are now magic gundam killing weapons. 2. Somehow everyone will piss themselves upon seeing Gundam Jesus. And someone people bought this shit.
IBO is a beautiful masterpiece of how Pride & Greed is the fall to anyone ❤ to put my opinion into the idea that S2 felt rushed and & had to many “cooks” in the kitchen I think that idea helps to blend the what I feel is the theme of Tekkaden’s story together, that the future isn’t lenient to those who have succeeded and sadly Tekkaden couldn’t take the wrath of the future due to things like Pride, greed, & even Orga’s selfishness
Imagine if they didn't get involved with Mcpedo's rebellion. They'd all be rich af living the good life by now. But they got greedy. That whole King of Mars had too nice of a ring to it.
Facts! I absolutely hate how Orga managed to fuck up a future of wealth over some "street" shit. Many nations came up like tekkaden irl. They maintained that power by "settling" down and playing office politics. Orga should've matured and handled Jasley in discretion not straight up gun them down on some tribalism shit.
I mean tbf they were still young and naive, they barely have any skills and experience when it comes too analyzing suspicious offers, Orga also lost his voice of reason (Biscuit) who helped him thinked twice before doing something unbelievably stupid.
@@JoseMarquez-vw1xh if only biscuit didnt die none of that will happen orga decision was rash without thinking the consequence later also the reason why mcgilis started his early rebellion because of orga rash decision and thats why Rustal use his illegal weapon on them during battlle he knows he cant win on them headon
@@aerosdacillo1227 What irritates me is that the adults fail to be a voice of reason after Biscuit died. Merribit who's supposed to be keeping an eye on them doesn't have enough push to keep Orga and the kids in check. While the old maintenance man has resigned to leaving the kids do their things. In the end, I can't help but be amused that Zach whose actions might be seen as cowardly is probably the only voice of reason left in Tekkadan, while everyone else has gone insane and insisted on staying in their fast sinking ship.
They threw in with McGillis because he promised them they would be safe in the new world order. Which is kind of a big deal considering they were getting back stabbed the whole season. There was nothing greedy about it. (I find the whole notion pretty dusgusting. What kind of author choses a character who has LITERALLY NOTHING as a vehicle for a morality play about greed?) Also becaue Kudelia and Makanai are mysteriously absent and unable to help because of PLOT.
I really loved IBO kinda liked how they didn't have a happy ending, it still hurt seeing them get defeated also the gundams are named after demons of the Ars Goetia
Basically, IBO shows you how heroes eventually become what they hate if they lose their moral compass. And it was extremely refreshing to see brutal mecha fights that used melee weapons instead of overused / OP / eye-blinding beam weapons, and all the deaths were really gut-wrenching in a good way!
Personally I felt that IBO committed the greatest Sin any Sci-Fi series can by making its backstory event more interesting than the story they are trying to tell in the mainline plot. As most already pined but the Calamity War events from the little seeds that IBO had planted for sure have a mountain more potential to make a more intensely interesting story or at least the potential or it. Just my .02$
See, I disagree with that. Things like that are excellent world-building ideas because they draw intrigue and make the world feel bigger. Honestly, that's probably what PD has over all the other AU's. There's just a ton of hinted at space to fill in.
I think its more of a clever twist than a sin though. It simply establishes that there is more to this world than them. Kind of like "Goblin Slayer" the Light Novel (I'm not a fan of the anime).
I felt some realism to this, man. The political scandals was just feels. Also I am feeling slightly isolated as the one guy who liked Miguelis. Abused, betrayed, calloused and trying so hard. I cannot help but sympathize with the boy. However, his pride was his downfall, and I make a point to be proud *after* I've won.
Oh hey, fellow McGillis fan! For me, I really feel his absolute frustration and anger at the establishment, and his desire to essentially just treat it like a shounen and save it by going apeshit.
@@0th_Law Well you can find a behaviour like that in many kinds of people far more nice or cruel than McGillis, so I feel compelled to ask if you happen to be fond of a lot of revolutionaries?
@@0th_Law I figured you'd be in Antifa or something, so anarchist would make sense. Monarchist. Having one head guy to blame makes things easier in a way.
Iron Blooded Orphans was my first Gundam I’ve seen. It’s what got me interested in the Gundam Franchise. And I will say, despite the story not being like rest of the Franchise, it was a confusing, yet enjoyable entry into the Franchise
This really helps me put to words the feelings i had about this series. I absolutely adore the inversion of each of the main party's roles, and the integral legacy each of those parties overcome or undo.
War isn't happy fun times. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. If you don't watch out you'll become the monster you've been fighting. Hatred grows more hatred. Those are the things I think of when I think of IBO.
Anyone else think the exact opposite? War time is joyous and hatred is the emotion of truth? Just me? Eh, just me. Oh, one like? Mmm, a battle brother.
Hmmm... on the one hand, I have to agree that you had a point that they were the antagonists by siding with the blonde guy. But that ending was not satisfying. That reckoning hasn't come to pass and it still infuriates me that the only reason a positive change came about by the end was because too many of the Seven Stars had been killed to maintain the old system. Rustal was forced to change the system but he and his subordinate still ended up on top of the new system they made. Even prior to that their tactics hadn't changed either when you consider they pulled the same False Flag operation they did on the colony that Biscuit's Brother was by basically manipulating the facts so they could justify excessive force, which was the same with when they were on Earth and Rustal's agent basically got their members killed. You can justify that they were ambitious and became the antagonist, but when you look at Rustal's actions and the system they were preserving, I don't think they were wrong in pursuing the change even if it meant siding with McGillis.
You're actually in the right. The video calls McGillis a "would be tyrant" but what he wanted was to reform the already tyranical system in place. Also agree in that Tekkadan aren't really villains from a narrative standpoint (from a metanarrative standpoint, in contrast to other Gundam series, I can see it being true). In the ending, Julietta says that the members of Tekkadan weren't devils but more human than anybody else. Their society had no place for them but the battlefield, and despite being against incredibly stacked odds, they managed to change the world for the better by destabilizing Gjallarhorn so much that it forced their hand into conceding and negotiating to tone down their despotism. It's kind of a "happy" resolution if we look at the big picture, all the personal tragedy that ocurred notwithstanding, and for that it's a very compelling ending for me at least.
I have to agree completely with Hastat & Micheal Bates. How did the video uploader form such a conclusion when Tekkaden & even Mcgillis had more of a moral highground than Rustal during the 2nd Season if you paid attention? Keep in mind that Rustal went out of his way to slaughter underage soldiers. Cutting off their surrender was a huge war crime & using outlawed weapons like that is another. Someone needs to get a Geneva Expert to watch this series & then explain how wrong the video uploader is. "They used 1 first" isn't a valid justification when using outlawed weapons on a battlefield & I'm sure the War Crimes committee of our real world would have Rustal's head for his actions.
My head cannon makes the Calamity War be a reference to Gundam Wing. The Alaya-Vinjana being a 3rd generation zero system. Frozen teardrop even has colonization of mars, making the little flower scenes poignant. Bael=Talgeese/Wing Zero?
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 its actually talked about in story. The big mobile armor shoots out a beam and the barbatos reflects it off and they talk about how all later gundams were designed to reflect beam weapons. Hence the return to boomsticks. I mean even Epyon is a big contender to the other Gundams and he just has a sword and whip. And the cloth cloaks are suppose to be beam resistant.
I've never watched the other shows, but I've always loved season 2. Biscuit's death in season 1 always felt like a turn. It's no longer an epic space odyssey about scrappy heroes rising against the odds. It's a tragedy. It's a tragedy where we see our heroes strengths be the thing that destroys them. The wild and reckless plans that managed to get them through season 1? They aren't working anymore because people have learned. And people are dying because of it. The driving force behind our heroes has always been Orga's desire to give his family a better life. And in season two, we see that he's aware that there is more he can do for his family, and he takes that path. Things that gave our heroes strength are killing them.
My biggest problem with season 2 is literally its ending, especially mika, who got good a point where literally no other character in series could challenge him and they needed to kill him off somehow, result wasnt great. Besides that one anticlimactic end i can honestly recommend it, though imo they should have went for season 3 or at least make a movie.
The major downfall of season 2 for me was the way the writers made Tekkadan and McGillis fail. I was fine with a bittersweet ending, but the way the writers seemed to bend over backwards to make it happen just made it really fustrating to watch. I don't understand why they went out of their way to create such unsatisfying events leading to their downfall when it could be so easy to write around. E.g. Let the flauros get overwhelmed and tackled by enemy suits as the reason it missed the shot instead of its aim getting misalligned by Julia while in combat with Mikazuki of all people. The worst part was Mikazuki demolishing her and then letting her live on despite her proving to be a hindrance to Tekkadan.
NGL, the story is cool, the ending sucked but admit it, the real reason we all love it so much is because damn barbatos is soooooooooo COOL. Honestly barbatos rivals the epicness of gundams like sazabi and the unicorn. It’s just soo damn cool.
I actually love the ending, it was sad, and the Mika and Akihiro are left with nothing but they stayed to protect the others and follow through with Orgas final orders and their deaths are tragic but finally put them at peace, I think the episode should have ended there, or should have fully eradicated tekkaden, my only complaint is it didn't go far enough the how should have had three seasons tbh
Funny cause there have been a few "pre wars 100 so or less years ago" story's in SEEDS reconstruction war prior to CE or after war gundam Xs 7th space war itself
A great video and retrospective; I always respected Season 2, but now I have a more concrete way of explaining why- thank you for this! And damn, older Ride reminds me of Sakaido from ID:INVADED!
I got that feeling of connectedness the strongest right at the end. I assumed Mika was meant to be a new type, his connection with Orga, Attara, Cudellia seeming to continue even after death. My biggest problem with season 2 is that the new villains don’t feel like they deserve to win. Jullia’s final “kill” on mikazuki isn’t earned. Rustle has no connection to the main cast.
They had enough time to actually have them do things to make them likeable but Rustal's lackeys just say the exact same lines over and over. Juila just simps and Iok thinks he's some noble hero.
"The guy who wants to murder child slaves for defending themselves, and weaponized a murderous psychopath to do it, is better than the children trying to gain enough power to end child slavery." I get what you're trying to say, but the writing of IBO flopped hard if this is what they were going for. Becoming "kings of mars" was always about getting enough power to end the practice of using orphans as slave labor and cannon fodder. Their enemy in season 2 is the same corrupt organization that tried to kill them in season 1, led by a man who was every bit as tyrannical as McGillis. They were framed for crimes they didn't commit and cornered. It's hard to see that as anything other than a corrupt authoritarian regime doing everything possible to stay in power, and children being trampled on for that end.
And somehow Gjallarhorn just magically turns itself into a democratic government in the end after McGillis, the main figure behind the coup is killed while the rest of the corrupted Gjallarhorn higher-ups are still alive and kicking, that's not how it works man. Unless Rustal just decided to wipe them out as well with his mighty Dainsleif.
sounds pretty realistic, it's not the writing flopped but it's how you see it as unjustified and unfair which what i believe that what author aiming for, that's life also orga still a kid and naive he's paid the price for trying to achive "king of mars"
Whoa... I honestly wasn't sure what I was getting into once I clicked your video. It helped me see the flaws in the second season but show me a new appreciation to the show compare to other series regarding its theme and symbolism. It bring something fresh to the series we don't see in other gundam shows. Thank for the video. To me at least IBO, has been a good series Sunrise produce in a long while compare some modern Gundam series.
Tekkadan was doomed from the start. They were children. Their big "goal" from the start was "a place where they belonged". Of course they lost sight of it, of course they were misled by adults they shouldn't have trusted and of course they didn't listen to the adults they should have, they were children. In all actuality all they knew about was war, but what happens when that war goes away? They grew up so screwed up that they literally couldn't see the bigger picture. It's an idea that was touched upon in Wing EW. "What happens to the soliders when there is nothing left to fight, who only know how to fight?". 00 also somewhat touched upon it with Setsuna and Azadistan.
6:30, as a long time Tabletop RPG player, watching the second season felt pretty much just like a campaign run by a particularly nasty DM who made sure the situation would continue to stack against us as long as we were succeeding on rolls, he basically just had us keep on rolling until the nat 1 hit he could finally screw our plans over with for no reason other than, "Ha, nat 1, you all FAIL!"
This is a cool take, and I can see where you're coming from. Although I'm not sure if it excuses all the writing in season 2, I dig this interpretation. It also paints me a better picture of just why exactly the most fun I had with season 2 was indeed that mobile armor arc. It all makes sense now haha. I've been rewatching (or watching for the first time) every single Gundam series lately, and I'm looking forward to my rewatch of IBO a little more now.
Even only watching 2 full series of Gundam Iron Blooded Orphan's reversal in the end was very clear to me, as much as I hated some of the "antagonists" near the end their narrow misses and successes despite all odds had a weird sense of melancholy, the losses of the protaginists were good things. I kept hoping that Tekkaden would throw off McGillis and fight for their own cause again but in a way what did they have to fight for, they were fighting to secure their own place in the world not to better it. Everything was also driven home and reinforced in the epilogue, that Tekkaden losing at that moment was the right thing for the world, and that the paths the "antagonists" took as well as the survivors of tekkaden working under Kudelia made the world an objectively better place. They hadn't fought to save it from disaster, they fought to shape it to their will as you said. All in all Iron Blooded Orphans is genuinely among my favorite of the series I've watched so far, in themes, gundam design, the feel of combat, and atmosphere, I didn't realize that it was especially controversial and even unliked because I was really hoping for it to be expanded more, maybe future series will try to explore the concepts Iron Blooded Orphans touched on through different perspectives in a way that guides those who otherwise were just more annoyed by how it went in IBO.
The thing we forget about IBO is that it was in development hell for years and it shows. The core story would have hit hard when development started in 2008-9, but the ideas it picked up along the way feel more and more distant from the core premise, and the actual scripts feel like they were written by people who barely remembered who these characters were supposed to be beyond their archetype.
lol even the spinoff game is still stuck in the development hell right now. They announced an IBO mobile game years back and we still haven't heard anything from the dev team, maybe they are just trying to figure out how to write a descent story.
I had to watch all my favorite characters die in vain one after the other, only to watch the princess shake hands with villains that killed them while they smiled. Fuck this show's ending.
The big picture was showing that no matter how hard the less fortunate class works it can all be taken away by the rich for little to not reason and swiftly..
A prequel for IBO set in the calamity war would be sick. Imagine seeing all 72 gundam frames in their prime.
Yup along with the Mobile Armors :3
Like prime warframes i guess?
Yeah, hopefully they'll be more open to it since we're done with the 40th anniversary of gundam and gunpla so Sunrise might be slowing down on UC projects (assuming there aren't some I'm just not aware of being made) and they finished their latest build series so they have schedule openings. Nevermind the prospect of Bandai selling close to 5 dozen gundam kits and who knows how many mobile armors. C'mon guys shit practically prints money!
Yeah, I am all for this! We only got to see a handful of the Gundams, so if anything else, it would give some mecha designers out there a really wide canvas to build some unique designs!
Also can't lie, it would be a giant underdog story to see the beginnings of Gjallahorn and their process of building 72 frames and naming them all after demons.
Then the actual campaigns and battles! Mikazuki had to injure himself significantly (partial paralysis) to beat one mobile armor alone. Did Gundams in that era end up 'eating' pilots??
Was there a list of people willing to pilot a Gundam that was getting harder and harder to find candidates for? We all saw how even one mobile armor was enough to send TWO nearby Gundams into shutdown!
Plus, 72 Gundams means 24 teams of 3 units each, so you have lots of character dynamics possible amongst Gundam pilots, their supporting team members, and any other non-Gundam pilots using more standard units.
Yeah, next IBO series NEEDS to be about Calamity War. Easiest win for Gundam ever, in my book!
I don't mind watching 72+ episodes of Monster of the week formula if it means we get to see the Calamity with all the 72 gundams and mobile armours
I agree, but they were also children. All of which lived on an impoverished planet who were forced to grow up as soldiers without a good parental figure in their most important developmental years. They saw a chance to take what they never had and they did it at any costs. Rustal and Mcgillis ultimately manipulated children into doing what they want. They were ultimately the villains.
And the antagonist"good guys" lié, steal, awaken sky Net, commitment war, after , after war crime, after war crime. Create what seems to be a politically corrupt political dysnasty immediatly, and rich boy kid who had to be bettayed and lose it all gets it all back plus more and does nothing him self to make the world a better place. The lesión of knee to the system that made you a suave to chewing you up and spit you out because you didnt "play ball" doesnt really jive with me. Tekaden did some bad things to fight for a better world, the evil corrupt gahlerhorn faction fought to keep the status quo and just put a new label on it.
McGillis wished to change the child soldiers issues. The status quo issues.
@@youtubedeletedmyaccountlma2263 he understood how they felt because he too was an abused child.
Also, on the "war crime" front, let's not forget that Rustal had a false flag operative shoot a single Dainsleif at his fleet as an excuse to unleash his entire Dainsleif unit (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Agreed, Tekkadan were basically made into villains by being pawns for the real villains.
But it highlights really well that no side commands a moral high ground in war, and history is written by the victors.
McGillis was obviously a villain, but if he'd won Tekkadan would have won. Rustal wasn't much better, wanting to maintain the status quo, but his crimes are forgiven by triumphing over McGillis.
BOOFIRE191: "Everybody's gangster till the fat kid dies."
IBO do got the Asian gangster flick feels though.
MUSASHIII
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@@SakurakoLover Those damn dinosaurs.
Fucking ledgene
I really liked how Guts stopped chasing Griffith and dedicated himself to space piracy.
But griffith is become mcgillis
@@rohan9018 Na-Naniii!? Who did he sacrifice this time?
@@leonardovenancio6096 gjallarhon with carta and Galileo
Best comment by far lmao
*GRIFFFFFIITTTHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
Iron blooded orphans in one line .
"In the end...they were just kids afterall"
Moral of the story:
never trust Mcgillis Fareed
Never trust blond guys
@@LoliMaster69227 *blonde guys with mask
@@roc6836 Mcgillis Fareed sucked at it. Mikazuki knew it was him from the get go. Vidar also sucked harder at it because nobody cared.
Never trust Char Aznable or any of his incarnation.
Can we trust Zechs tho
If you look at it, Orga getting a bit more impulsive ever since Biscuit's (basically their "voice of reason") death in S1 kind of foreshadowed Tekkadan's inevitable doom at the end of S2 (which is full of rash moves by Orga). I love season 2 despite its imperfections, although I do agree that the same was a bit rushed.
Why Orga ever thought being king of mars was a good idea will forever be a mystery to be
@@danielnolan8848 If you are the King of something, you can make things better for the people you love.
@@muchluck7981 True. The only problem with Orga, and what basically led to Tekkadan's downfall at the end of S2, was his rashness as seen in him taking "the shortest route" possible without actually considering the possible consequences. Without Biscuit to serve as his voice of reason, no one else stood the chance to talk some sense to Orga before it was too late.
Soran Tanjili and when Naze died shit hit the fan because he was Orga’s last voice of reason
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I thought a thing IBO was trying to do was similar to what Wing touched on but didn't dwell on; namely, while giant robot series tend to naturally have plucky teen pilots for the audience to relate to, being a child soldier messes you the hell up.
Mika is a once-in-a-century talent, able to awaken a legendary machine to its full potential in a way no one else can. He can do this not because he is genetically unique or spiritually superior, but because he has no regard for his own safety as a child soldier who was subjected to inhumane technology. Mika's life experience means he doesn't really have a conscience a lot of the time; he relies on Orga for a sense of right and wrong and Orga's own perspective is skewed because while he is a smart kid who wants to look after his found family, he was raised in a might-makes-right system where anything worth having must be taken-and defended-with violence. I feel like the fact Julieta tries to ask what cause Mika could possibly have that keeps him going when he should already be dead only to realize Mika doesn't understand the question is significant. McGillis and Julieta both try to establish some sort of rapport with Mika; McGillis is disappointed and repulsed by the realization the kid he's so interested in doesn't really have anything in common with him at all besides them both being traumatized, and Julieta understanding she's fighting someone who was never raised to view anything but violence as a valid choice turns victory to ashes in her mouth.
I thought it was also interesting that the antagonists, despite your framing of them as hero antagonists, are ALSO punished harshly for choosing to escalate violence rather than seek peace. Orga GIVES UP. He is willing to show his belly and surrender unconditionally to Rustal to keep his family alive; Rustal refuses because he's not done slaughtering them to make an example of anyone that picks a fight with Gjallerhorn. His decision to do this, however, prompts Mika's last stand, and what should have been a quiet end to McGillis's sad little rebellion turns into a nightmarish slaughter; dozens of Rustal's men die unnecessarily, Iok is butchered, Julieta is lucky to still be alive, and ultimately Iok's demise is a deathblow to the system Rustal was trying to uphold. He's forced to accept change he did not want because his decision to escalate and retaliate turned around and bit him. Maybe not as badly as Orga's decision to start a fight, but still.
Mediocre series
@tony what are your top 3?
Thank you very much, I knew something was left out, good analysis.
So rustal is forced to make changes because there is no other way for 7 stars council to still working (kujan, Fareed, etc is ended)
I though he really want to make democratic gjalahorn from the start
@@Tonyscasa Low effort bait XD
Two things. First, you failed to mention how the Barbatos became more monstrous as the series progressed. Sort of a mirror to what Tekkadan had become. Second, I never saw McGillis as a tyrant. McGillis is an idealist and a product of the corrupt system he wished to overthrow. His character is beautifully fleshed out. McGillis became merciless as a means of survival and his love for the legend of Bael came as a means to mentally cope with the abuse he was subjected to. The same can be said for Tekkadan. Both are products of their environment and both wished to change things for the better.
Barbatos and Bael are both named after demons and it's almost as if Barbatos is slowly beginning to possess Mika. Along with the design getting more monstrous Mika's actions and the amount of power Barbatos grants him until Mika can no longer move without being connected to the Gundam.
I agree but he does lightly touch on how Barbatos began to change.
@@zakkmylde1712 All Gundam suits in IBO are named after Goetia demons.
This. People tend to forget that McGillis is also a victim of the Space Debris system, buried under a mountain of trauma and surrounded by people who perpetuated his abuse (or are at least a symbol of it). Like Tekkadan, his entire life has taught him that the only way out is through force or manipulation, and in a way it's true. He can't be like Kudelia, who is a product of her privileged life and upbringing as a human being afforded actual human dignity. Choosing the peaceful option and "working within the system" requires trust, and we can't expect people like McGillis to have that trust in a system that trampled him underfoot and caged him with his rapist.
I completely agree. Although the 'protagonist' we follow in IBO are seen as the bad guys by the 'antagonist'? They are very much FORCED into that prospect due to both their environment and the situations they were pushed into by people from Season 1. They merely took the only path available to them in order to achieve their goal because quite literally? Every other path was cut off from them. So it was either "We stop what we are doing and go back to what we used to be" or "Keep going no matter what". The way I look at it? There are no good guys, or bad guys. No Heroes, no villains in this series. No side was without sin and everyone could only do what they could based on their given situations.
To be honest, I think what S2 says about Tekkedan is less of them becoming the villain, and more of showing that in the system that is in place, these characters who know nothing BUT violence and war never would be able to prosper if they didn't learn how to live in a time of (relative) peace, and it's not just Tekkedan that shows this, it's McGillis and a few others too, showing that valuing nothing but absolute might as a means to your goal is doomed to fail, even if the cause at first is noble.
Especially in Mika's case. Even from the first episodes, we see he is a no-nonsense protagonist who basically just uses brute strength in any situation and probably wouldn't be able to stop being a gundam pilot. I wouldn't be surprised if they said he was a sociopath
As a friend and I agreed when discussing the history of revolutions: The kind of person who is willing to fight a violent revolutionary conflict is generally the last person who should be in charge of building the state that follows.
It's not entirely that, but rather who has authority to use violence. And the show absolutely does reafirm that might makes right. Rustal and Gjallarhorn forces use absolute power to dominate whoever oposes them, like the Dort workers or McgGillis' forces, until the very end and never break away from this theme. The ending reafirms that anyone can function normally regardless how much violence they engaged in. Julietta is the mirror reflection of Mika on Gh's side, just as servile and fanatical, yet she's perfectly suited to rule the whole damn thing apparently, because she stood on the side of power and authority, which in IBO universe is everything.
IBO was really a rollercoaster of an anime and is one of my favorite animes right now. I really love that it's getting a lot of attention now, Cause it definitely deserves it!
Agreed. I love IBO to this day and even after watching shows like 00, Unicorn and Narrative, I still love IBO to this day. The way the fights are done to the way it blends politics with action. I just love IBO the most.
@@muchluck7981 honestly dude agreed it was actually my first Gundam that I actually watched and paid attention to and I just loved it from the fact that they use really primitive tech (like bullets and bladed weapons) to the politics and conflicts the cast goes through it's just amazing!! ALSO AKIHIRO IS JACKED that basically does it for me lol (maybe I should make a vidoe on IBO)
I had to beef up security in my house when I watched IBO. Damn onion cutting ninjas kept breaking in.
go watch older gundam series too,
@@carlsberg-gs6rl dude same !!
Whenever someone asks me what IBO is about I always answer, "Pride and the fall".
Pride,greed(for orga) and fall
I would say " The iron flower that never wilts, that bloomed on a battlefield and was stained red. The flower persisted even with all blood that was spilled until it finally shattered."
For me it's "history is written by the victors."
By the final conflict between Tekkadan and Ghallahorn there really we're no good guys and bad guys, just factions maligned by thier own politics with thier own good and bad actors within them driving the goals and identity of thier organizations and those actors being driven by good and bad themselves. Both organizations used underhanded tactics and the weight of thier comrades demise was felt by those closest to them. Ultimately both Tekkadan and Ghallahjorn sought the reigns of the world but in the end of the conflict Ghallahorn's power structure remained the most intact and they proceeded the work of creating order to the world via mostly peaceful and democratic means like the world we live in today. Therefore according to the world, thier ideals must be correct and Tekkadan were in fact the villains however bearing witness to thier story we know it to be deeper than that. This is some timeless sh*t and is some of the best story telling and deconstruction of the human experience that's ever been told. It's astounding to me what the human mind is capable of creating and how we've just come to expect it from this genre.
@@Wolfman7870 honestly if you said a writer being a simp to the VA ended up changing the ending and bringing back that dead character because she like the VA then I don't think that is good storytelling. Even the death were forced, they try making me sad for such forced drama,heck no.
Space mafia and greed
IBO is more grounded..... that's life, sometimes you plan for things to happen and it just doesn't work out. It sucks but its life.
@McBeef That's so true
Indeed
Yet, living mobile armors and Gaelio coming back from the dead say otherwise.
its life.. and death
That's why IBO is probably my fave Gundam series, b.c it plays to reality more than others.
So what you’re saying is IBO is pretty much “you either die as the hero or you live long enough to see you’re self die as the villain.” But in this case are protagonist technically did become kinda the antagonist
Your quote is correct, and probably the best summation of what the plot of IBO is. I'm sure there's also a quote about being obsessed with power that would apply too.
But just a small correction. a protagonist is just the leading character of a story and the antagonist is the character opposing them. There's not actually any requirement for being good or evil. Tekkadan, more specifically Orga and Mikazuki, are always the protagonists, even when they become the villains of the story.
well i think thats how a real war is, no side is a good side, in my opinion ibo is a real war animated and thats why its plot is good
i dont think tekkadan can be villains when galajorn indiscriminately fucks over anyone in its path with a dansleive barrage
@@Jaynesslessly True. But both sides can be considered villains. One doesn't have to be the hero. Both sides here make very questionable decisions. Whether we are talking about the manipulations of McGillis or the use of banned weapons like the Dainsleif
@@user-nv9vi9de8p but they do become villians, humans by all means but still villians. They seeked to impose their views over others, taking "the fastest route" as Orga calls it, and facing the consequences of it in way of their failures.
This series works as a warning to the line of "the line between light and darkness is so thin yet so distant "
Man this show was such an amazing slow burn. The last fight always brings me to tears. The build up and pay off is some of the best I've seen in modern anime. They could not live in the world that they wanted to create and died for their sins. The ultimate martyrdom. Thank you for video essay of this show. It deserves it.
i cant forgive that we were never able to see orga pilot his mobile suit :')
That feeling when you realize that you've been rooting for child soilders employed by the mafia that are argublably terrorists trying to take down the UN....Mika is pretty damn cool though. Favorite gundam series next to the original....and G....
Yeah, if you look at it from other perspectives both Tekkadan and Gyjallhorn could be villains
but it is really their fault from the get-go...That's what I love about this series feels more realistic, there is no right or wrong, war is just meaningless death, there is no right or wrong just people being people, getting unlucky, treated unfairly, and fall into the same loop and do the same to others. just humans being humans, we will never change because of it. Super cool concept "from the skies they see war, but on earth, there is only carnage" 10 points if you know where that quote is from.
Code Geass is kinda similar
Personally I had the opposite experience. I realized pretty quickly what Tekkaden where. Then one character’s death was foreshadowed. Then it took several episodes for them to get shot. All while i’m being force fed their backstory. By the point of episode 16 I was completely disinterested and dropped the series. Maybe I’ll like it better when I’m further into gundam. I’ve only watched Origin, Wing, 00, Mobile suit Gundam, 08th squad, and war in the pocket.
@@awesomechainsaw after mobile suit Gundam origin you should've watched the first series from 1979 because origin is a prequel to that
IBO was the first Gundam series I watched fully; imagine my dismay when I went on to discover the different timelines and universes wanting to watch the franchise from the beginning after that.
i mean the other timelines are just as good imo. Even G gundam is up there.
@@akou12 I didn't say they weren't I am just sad it isn't one continuous timeline. IBO is still my favorite but I am really enjoying the others as a catch up on the franchise
@@lycanbroadcastingnetwork What have you watched so far?
@@icheatinexam5606 I was powering through the UC timeline and got up to victory then I decided to start watching some of the AU timelines so watching 00 right now
@Waifu Kun Thunderbolt was my second and just because of that soundtrack it will always be one if my favorites
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.
same watched the dark knight
This quote right here
I understand that reference...
@@thornestark4521 i didnt
@@Joshua-zo9yq you should it's good
When I watched this I honestly felt it natural, everything developed in ways I always found natural, likely to happen, it always hit hard, and to be a Gundam series, this one was pretty bitter, it felt like an actual war, fought for dreams and desperation, you could feel the sadness and the malincony just as much as the hope every member of the crew carried with them, or at least, that's what I felt.
It HAS to be one of my favourite Gundam series
in my opinion barbatos is one of the most practical or rather realistic gundam ive seen
Except that torso-hip connection. Of course, that's a problem with all the mobile suits in the series. Those things would fly apart the first speedy turn.
So far he the top Melee Gundam frame there if not please let me know
@@laurancemic1303 Gundam bael
I just give most of the Gundam in IBO props for using actual swords and weapons instead of a beam sabers like EVERY SINGLE OTHER GUNDAM IN EXISTENCE.
@@itsdantaylor the magic laser swords really put me off from gundam anything but this series has really pulled me in because it's well animated and combat follows a logic of pilot kills over mech kills
I know season 2 isn't perfect, but I love it still. It feel more like a tragedy. A group I think was doomed from the on set. A group that grew too fast. That got intertwined with the wrong people, but it seemed like the world was egging them on. In the end they get back on the right path though and that's is why they succeed in saving whom they can. That is why they get a happy ending, realtive to what most bad guys get. I mean the remaining members get away with everything and get to still be a family in the admoss company. It also shows that the lengths of what people will think is right for his family. Orga wanted to make a world that he thought was best for his family. In the end it ruined them.
It could be pulled of much better. Entire plan of mcgillis was a mess, and that came just after he masterfully manipulated every fraction in this entire universe to put himself on top.
Would a Monarchy led by barley literature child warlords be better than the fascists of Galahorn? Debatable, but probably wouldn't last long, they were alteast trying to sieze the initiative to make there home a better place by the only means they ever knew
@@danielnolan8848 probably not, but if they gave most the power to kudela it may be ok. They be the queens might.
@@acidous I like that actually. while it may be easy to weave your way through the inner workings of a political group to gain more power, the problem becomes what to do after you gain that power.
@@muchluck7981 true, but S1 and most of S2 never forshadows that. This whole bael BS is just coming out of nowhere
"I'm not saying they're the good guys"
AHAHAHAHA thank goodness. Iok was consistently a horrible person. All of his actions had a tendency of being morally black, with barely any, if any, grey at all. All the while he praises himself as a hero while performing heinous acts while believing himself in the right, and what's worse is that _it doesn't help his faction in any way whatsoever._ Innocent lives were lost because of his pride, his evil acts, and most importantly, his stupidity and inability to self reflect.
"IBO has room for a sequel"
And a prequel!
Thank God Akihiro's last breath wasn't wasted!! Iok's death really scratched that itch for me honestly!
There was a reason why the fans referred to him a Idiok.
@@Sandrock313 More like there's a reason why the various video clips of his death, up to and _including_ the ones where it loops his death over and over has a high view count.
I've never hated a fictional character more and I was unbelievably satisfied with his death
It’s not popular enough for a sequel. The only AU to be popular enough for a sequel is Cosmic Era
Loved the video.
I can't bring myself to see Tekkadan as villains. Even after your explanation of this dynamic as a framing device. I agree Orga and McGillis made some awful mistakes and decisions. But these characters, and all of Tekkadan, were stripped of their humanity by the world for simply existing. The world's status that Gjallarhorn upholds is wrong from the outset, they created and maintain the world and Tekkadan were a group of oppressed and distressed children trying to make a way in that world. And the adults from the beginning til the end were bad faith actors imposing their continued oppression. Even keeping in mind your framing for "villains and heroes"I don't think there are villains in IBO just the awful world that would allow/encourage impoverished enslaved children soldiers along with those who would uphold this status quo, and those would go against it. Maybe not honorably, but you shouldn't need to be honorable to fight for your right to live as a human especially in a world that doesn't see you as human.
It's a good thematic framing device, that I agree with and like, that falls short when taking into account Gjallarhorn is a bigger villain that created the world that instigated the situation Tekkadan found themselves in.
Also they're kids, I'm not gonna be too harsh and call children villains for wanting to do things the fast/easy way, they wouldn't know any better.
The point is that they knew what they were doing is bad. Orga has reached his goal of giving them a home by the end of part 1. Tekkadan sides with the devil who betrayed and used everyone to further his own goal and at that point became the villains of the series
Im not disagreeing with the points made in the video, nor am I saying Tekkadan or Orga didn't make bad decisions. What I am saying is that there's a more interesting conversation in the show about the relationship of oppressors and the oppressed. And to reduce that dynamic to heroes and villains when Tekkadan is operating as "moral" (if not a little more so) as their adversaries isn't doing the material justice.
Thrdwrld32 the reason why he didn’t go on about that part was that isn’t the part where most people got mad about. It’s the second season where Tekkadan lost is. A lot of people didn’t understand why the roles where swapped over and started to rage about it.
I absolutely agree with this. Though flawed, I never saw McGillis or Tekkadan as villains. Both are products of the status quo and both wished to change things for the better. Though Boofire does do a good job of pointing out that their methodology is what leads to their demise, their intentions were still noble and is the reason why in the end they were all vindicated. Gaelio even admits to this in his conversation with Julieta. In season 2, Tekkadan and Fareed's actions made them look like the villain but the real villain is still Gjallarhorn and corrupt system they were enforcing.
@@carlsberg-gs6rl mcgillis died trying his best to fix a broken and corrupt system the only way something that flawed could be fixed. I still love the heck out of his character, but i feel like gailleo wouldve helped mcgillis if he hadnt betrayed him first
Honestly, IBO got me back into the Gundam franchise because it was so different to what my expectations were. After rewatching gundam wing, seed, and OO it made me appreciate what IBO did even more
Good analysis but really painting Tekkadan as the villains doesn’t seem right. The Earth Federation’s Gjalldarhorn were definitely the enemies of both seasons. If they were “good guys” they wouldn’t have let the situation on Mars deteriorate to the point that it did especially since they had essentially a monopoly on defence.
They were made to be villains. Not exactly as villains
Personally I think both sides were the villains in ibo season 2, ellion and the Ariadne fleet went to the point of framing tekkadan and mcgillis by in planting a mole with a illegal weapon which in my mind is equal to the crimes and mcgillis’s intentions. The fact that he went to that length just so they could slaughter the enemy is objectively wrong imo
I was going to say are we just going to gloss over the fact that human debris and basically slavery were allowed to exist on mars in the first place? Sure, if gjallarhorn were a completely innocent organization it would be a different story, but to say tekkadan is evil in themselves rather than being manipulated, is a few steps too far.
I think calling Tekkadan "evil" and "villains" are two different things.
Certainly they were never evil, and "villains" is a relative term. Since Rustal prevailed, McGillis and his faction were labelled the villains. Tekkadan was essentially villainized by their actions under McGillis, and being on the losing side.
History is written by the victor.
@@goosesk2862 it goes farther he created the conflict on earth that takaki was screwed over in
I think a better more exact way of seeing this is "Kids with too much power, get in way over their heads"
Remember most of the characters here are between 12-16 years old and got ahold of Very powerful weapons, and it shows how Power can corrupt, even more so for children, plus it also shows how children/teens are easily manipulated by others into thinking 'Its the right thing to do" and Children/Teens think more emotionally than logically hence some of the brutal and dumb choices they make.
Plus the ending could have been on Kill em all Tomino level, but luckly most of the people working on it protested and said that was too cruel. So we got possibly the best ending for Tekadan.
I often call this series "The Berserk of MSG" As its dark and gritty as heck and deals with heavy materials like Berserk, heck some of the characters are similar to Berserk characters (HELL ONE OF THEM WE JOKINGLY CALL TEEN GUTS!)
I personally Prefer IBO Over Build Divers any day honestly, Hot button topic I know
Looking pretty shaded, welcome and chill for a hot button.
Berserk? So would the Moble Armor count as the Rape Horse?
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@@TheKing-qz9wd Yeah I could go over everything on Why I don't like the Build Divers series, Its a rather petty as crap reason too >n>;
I was Actually fine with Build Fighters and I Adored Build Fighters Tri, but Divers and Especially Re:Rise Rubs me in all the wrong ways
If I will complement the crap out of however its All the Gundam Designs they are 11/10 awesome and yeah I would like to get Gunpla of them.
@@lionheart1013
I actually disliked all of the build series. I will take advantage of the opprutunities provided though, as they can get us updated kits that are better than ever if we are lucky.
So basically... "When the guys committing war crimes get the good-guy plot armor and you're stuck with frustrating failure, you should probably re-think your ideals"
Yup...
... Really they were cattle to throw away in wars or as labor. They're fight for they're survival and to make a place for them seems to go over your head. It shows how easy and simple your life seems. It's easy to look down and make other people's life decisions seem wrong when you yourself have never had to go through. Buy I'm sure you won't use the old you don't know me troupe rather then fully explain why these guys were evil.
this is basically "when in war, its better to be the winner, its only a war-crime when you lose"
@@devildavin history is written by the victors. You win, all of your war crimes are swept under the rug. If anyone complains, call them liars, arrest ot kill anyone that wants to uncover the secrets.
@@Joshua_N-A oooor it gets ignored merely like that.
IBO was and still is chronically underrated.
If 00 deconstructed the idea of Gundam, IBO rebuilt in it all its gritty, bloody glory.
Both deconstructed Gundam but in different ways.
I don't know, IBO gets hyped up so much. It's just that the fanboys and haters come in equal intensities
IBO? Underrated?
I wish.
Underrated? Lol no
OK, so the fans may have IBO pretty hyped-up, but I still feel the series is underrated in the size o its fanbase relative to other Gundam.
Personally I still feel it's of higher writing quality than more popular series like Wing, SEED, ect, but that's obviously subjective. I've always felt that Gundam's strength was at its more serious end, like in Zeta and 08th MS Team, hence why I like IBO's grittier and more grounded angle...
I love the critical fail moments of IBO, it hammers home the overall grittier and less forgiving tone that the series is going for. It fits with the overall theme, being that pure will and determination is not enough to solve all problems. Sometimes you gotta use a screwdriver instead of a hammer, but Tekkadan kept using a hammer to solve its problems. It's not a failure of Tekkadan, it's just all they know. They're a bunch of traumatized child soldiers doing the only thing they know, which is fight for their survival.
IBO by far is one of the most grounded AU in the series, specially in the end when there's no space magic bullshit to pull off was a breath of fresh air, truely unlike any other gundam.
IBO represents the heros failing? Good in real life the "good guys" dont always win, sometimes bad choices lead to disastrous outcomes and smart people can go on to do dumb things when stuff finally starts going their way. Everything past Turn-A has had a really difficult time of not doing the old "Heros ride off into the sunset" thing even Turn-A for how few causalities and world ending events it had still ended on a somber bittersweet tone that was just so Gundam in the best possible way.
Orga and Mcgilis were memorable characters because they were flawed human beings, and I certainly will remember them long after I forget the casts of shows like SEED or 00.
It's not them losing that's the problem. People can take bitter endings in Gundam, they're not something new and revolutionary. The problem is that this ending wasn't earned.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the ending. Granted, I enjoyed it because I never actually liked any of the fuckers except maybe Lafter and Space Guts (and even then, not that much), but I enjoyed it nonetheless. All the same, I can't call what happened realistic so much as a mid-season swap of plot armor and bullshit from Tekkadan over to Gjallarhorn.
killing protagonists dont make a plot better by default dude
@@laststrike4411 indeed, feels like it wanted to be zeta but didnt earned it before finding this video on recommended, i had forgotten about this series lol
@@alwaysangry2232 Didnt say it did, I said I liked how IBO handled it's ending. Also not a "dude".
@@alwaysangry2232 I think your reaching there.
I love what this series and the second season in particular does with McGillis and Gaelio. You're lured by the standard Gundam tropes and they two are obviously intended to be expies of Char and Garma. But by the second season, you see what Char would be if he didn't have an infinite supply of luck and plot armor in McGillis. McGillis is a deconstruction of Char in so many ways and a parody of him in others. He is LITERALLY MARRIED TO A LITTLE GIRL by the second season.
And in his final confrontation with Gaelio, his chance to kill Gaelio is foiled first by companionship and loyalty (Gaelio's attachment to Ein), which Char never completely discarded. And then McGillis is betrayed by Char's own mythology- Gaelio wears his mask to their final duel and blocks McGillis' last bullet with it. It's just perfect.
Gaelio is Garma who managed to survive the Gaw, use a different identity and get his revenge on Char.
It is illegal married a child?
@@Joshua_N-A pretty much gaelio in a nutshell... which is awesome cause we havent seen this before and it was well done despite not being the OG plan with the character (death in S1)
@@Matanumi I was kinda expecting they pull a Roanoke.
A lot of Gundam Series have politics akin to those of the 19th Century where rich families care more about marrying equally in status/wealth than things like age. You see similar political alliances & situations to those that existed 150 years ago. I believe the marriage was meant to show the kind of world they were living in & keep in mind that Mcgillis wanted to change that world. Everyone Tekkaden allied with wanted to change the corrupt & stagnant solar system ruled by Gjallarhorn. Naze made it his goal to save girls from prostitution, Kudelia wanted to end all the exploitation & help everyone.
Been waiting a long time for this one!
Likewise my friend, and he didn't disappoint one bit.
Shino missing that shot was bullshit. Juliet threw a sword while fighting Mika that perfectly hit the target just enough to make the shot miss.
That's like hitting a bullseye on a dartboard mounted on a bullet train while you fight Connor McGregor.
Yeah she went Kirito mode. I use that phrase as reference to bad writing when Kirito was just given god mode
Well, thats what we call plot armor. Which was given to a character that doesn't even deserve it
She has that freedom justice aimbot
Beggining of season 2 is beautiful irony. They were so effective, everyone and their mother started reincorporating child soldiers into their ranks.
One other thing you didn't mention, the 300 year old calamity war gets told through bits of dialogue and worldbuilding, no flashbacks.
What do I mean? A few hints. AV system can only be done on children. The operation is faulty and wasn't developed for 300 years, so the 72 Gundam pilots stood atop a mountain of children. The way the machine makes you fight beyond death (final fight, when the 3 axes hit, Mika has his neck break and he continues operating), as well as seeing one of the mobile armors and why the Gundams here are what they are.
Also, I always considered it a story of greys, Children fighting for their dreams, going by their broken logic, Tekkadan for a strange concept of a promised land seen by the broken eyes of an abused child soldier, as well as McGillis and his belief in legends, versus the cold realist Rustal Ellion (one of my fav characters), and the people who follow him to their grave, as well as the final realization of how pointless the fight was, as all 3 sides in this conflict were going for the same goal, just different roads.
It's one of my top 10 of all time shows, so I'm a bit biased, but now you get your sub for talking about this underappreciated gem. :)
Great analysis, and I was stunned that people find s2 bad for some odd reason.
I too was shocked to hear that people generally don't like season 2. It felt rushed and disappointing, but not bad. I can't agree with you on Rustal (he's a dick), but it's also one of my favorite shows.
@@grammaton6leric rushed?? What??? Lmao
I thought Rustal was 1 of the corrupt members of Gjallerhorn & his actions were definitely those of a villain. Keep in mind cutting off an enemy's chance to surrender is a huge war crime & he used outlawed weapons to slaughter child soldiers. I actually expect him to try awful things when working with Kudelia in the epilogue.
While I wouldn’t call season 2 bad, I would call it nothing more than a disappointment mascerating as a good story by using gundams “anti-war” message as meta to influence the series in such a stupid way. By giving the antagonists broken plot armor, failing to demonstrate why we should at all see Rustal and the other antagonists as “heroes” unless you look at it from an idiotic meta perspective. And if you think I’m wrong lemme ask you this. I have two questions. 1.) If iron blooded orphans was not a gundam series and instead was a stand alone mecha series, and if it was made in the exact same way, would you have enjoyed it? 2.) If iron blooded orphans was the first ever gundam series demonstrating gundams “anti-war” message and yet it was made the exact same way, would you still have enjoyed it? Personally I think not. Don’t use Meta to to drive the plot of your series and especially don’t use it to ruin the objective qualities of it so that you can demonstrate a messily gundam message about how broken plot armor is good as long as your going to kill the people who wanted to reform the corrupt system that brought so much hell to the world in the first place. There is no indication that Rustal ever wanted to change Ghallerhorn for the better as there is no indication that he even cares alittle bit about the public’s view and their opressive circumstances. He only changes because the past system of Gjallerhorn became broken by the hands of McGillis and Tekkaden, and therefore without them he would have never changed the system for the better.
If the writers of the series really wanted to make the antagonists the heroes they should have made them morally superior in every way. Instead of simply giving them broken plot armor and a measly excuse to change the system for the better peacefully.
IIRC the AV system only works on children now because it’s dangerous and their bodies haven’t fully developed yet, meaning their bodies couldn’t fight the less effective AV system. However in the past the system was fully researched and could be done on adults (as shown by McGillis having a working AV system for use in Bael).
I love IBO. It helped me realize that I wanted to go back and finally watch the entirety of the franchise. And it's still one of my fave entries.
I like IBO for its very dark setting and how it ended. There was no "happy ending" to it, which was all for the better. Tekkadan ended up doing very questionable things, even before starting up as that group. While it would have been awesome to see more characters redeemed, the ones we have left definitely suffice. But of course the mystery behind the Calamity War is very much still a big thing. Like for example the Gundam Frames. 72 were created, yet we've only seen a few, rebuilt ones that have survived the war against the Mobile Armor. So it is still unknown as to how many are left. In the anime, we got Barbatos, followed by Gusion, then season 1 ending with showing off Kimaris, which would be re-designated as Vidar up until season 2. And that season gave us Gundam Flauros and Bael. Then you have the spin off manga, IBO GEKKO, which gave us a few more Gundam Frames to look at. Primarily Gundam Astaroth and Vual as the primary machines.
Honestly i feel like Hush was the Most relatable, he didnt belive in tekkadan at first then gave his life in Battle for trying to become a badass like mikazuki, he gets my Saulte, even if they where in the wrong.
Hush's death was one of the saddest for me. I didn't really pay much attention to him or care much about him throughout the series. But he questioned what they were fighting for and eventually joined in and became a true part of the 'family' of Tekkadan. Only to be killed in a battle that didn't need to be fought.
Wow, you perfectly put into words what made this series so different, and gave me an epiphany about this whole series. I was a huge fan of 008 war in the pocket (oav) because of the striking contrast of the story and erasing the lines of what is good and what is evil, and reminds us we are all humans with human flaws, ambitions, ideas, egos and desires.
McGillis was supposed to be the 500IQ smartest guy ever lived in the series. His plan to conquering the world was, me got Freedom, me very strong, me is Jesus Yamato.
Laughs in lack of aimbot beam spam.
TBH, the series makes it pretty clear that, while that's how he views himself, his greatest success only became possible due to his patience, _despite_ how idiotically simplistic the actual plan was... The guy waited his whole life for a chance to betray his "father" and jumped at it the moment he saw the opportunity... which might also explain why he suddenly has zero patience by the second season.
Ever since Mika beat the Mobile Armor by himself he got very simple-minded
@@themercifulguard3971 He thought that if Barbartos was this strong, then Bael is a lot far stronger as it's the first Gundam Frame and piloted by Agnika Kaieru.
MUH BAEL
Thanks so much for explaining how I felt in words. I have been unreasonably emotional about ibo, but had no way of expressing it. You have given my feelings form.
Same, when I finished the second season something felt off and this video helped me understand why
When Biscuit and Maze died, you can already sense that Tekkadan would fall or at least major characters from the group would. The final nail in the coffin was when they more or less partnered with McGillis.
Shino should have lived.
Iok should have died sooner
McGillis should have been the final boss against Mikazuki.
If I may, would it have made more sense if McGillis either
A) Stayed behind and somehow won the blockade through his tact mixed with Tekaden's brutality.
B) Just made a B-line to the enemy capital vessel and kill that general, even if he had to take Kimaris Vidar and use it as a battering ram? It actually wouldn't be that hard considering their high speed and impressive handling.
It doesn't make sense for McGillis to fight Mikazuki lmao
@@insuspectedrulling1082
If things go south it is possible. McGillis wants the world to change but Mika wants to protect his family.
It also didn't make sense for Gaelio to live past the Season 1 finale. He's *_clearly_* killed by McGillis in that moment.
^
But it's all because Mari Okada (IBO's writer) had a crush on Gaelio's voice-actor.
@@whiteraven1992
Agreed. I think the ending would have change if there was a different worker behind the scenes
Season 1: connect with everyone.
Season 2: get kicked in the nuts.
Honestly I see this as a near perfect Gundam show. The themes are so strong and they feel as clear as any other Gundam series. The characters are complex and you can see when they're making a bad turn. Hell you can see which way Orga is going to go by the end of season one and it is entirely down to Biscuit's death. The fact that Mika feels such strong loyalty for him that he just follows blindly is so tragic and neither Orga or Mika fully understand that. And the show makes it clear that despite the bad things they do the rest of the cast do them because they don't see any other path.
one of my favourite parts about orga and mika's relationship is the fact that mika asserts himself for the first time in the series just before orga dies, and after the fact, he acts on his own accord until he dies, and asserts himself - hell, he even gains a degree of emotional awareness with the way he plays into hush's last wishes to be validated by him as he dies.
orga and mika have such a beautifully illustrated codependant relationship where the two enable each others worst habits and i adore it
It;s kinda hard to describe what a gundam anime is when you have stuff like G-reco made by Tomino himself.
Though I think IBO's biggest weakenss is actually McGillis' goal. Story wise it's a big deal but to us, its another gundam.
Tomino despite being the granddaddy director you can argue.... lost his way on meaning of a gundam series. He just hates what they stand for now (not just selling plastic model kits either)
McGillis goal isn’t weak at all...
@@Matanumi Considering people genuinely seem to idolize Zeon, I can't blame him.
R.I.P Mikazuki, Orga, Bicuit, Akihiro
Don't forget Shino 😭
@@daxsama yeah
@@fullarmorpp just got done watching damn
@@johnyaruki734 huh
@@fullarmorpp I meant I just finished the show right now and those deaths hit me
Now I kind of want to rewatch, for the reason of seeing if Mikazuki's sacrifices of parts of his body align with each time Orga really screws up.
I agree with you that Mika isn't really the main character here, as he doesn't have agency until the show is in its endgame. He willingly makes himself an extension of Orga's will and ambition and makes it clear that there is not a single thing he won't do or kill for his adopted brother, including his own dreams of starting a farm. Until the point where that changes, he has more in common with the other machines of war than the characters around him.
Remember that scene where Zack cried while talking about how sad it is that even though most of the guys in Tekkadan are kind and passionate, they would all end up miserable? He was literaly describing how the audience was supposed to fell and he was right.
I honestly preferred season 2. There's definitely cases of bad plot armor and rushed pacing, but I really like the ideas presented in the second season - and how melodramatic it becomes near the end as Tekkadan, completely outnumbered by an army using unfair tactics, pays the price for what they set up at the end of S1.
something that made hate ibo was interview in wich the director said that season 2 was meant to be a classic tomino kill them all like ideon but the writers got so attached to certain characters that the entire staff had to compromise and re think wich character should live and wich has to die and left the mess that season 2 was
that.... doesn't sound like a good way of writing.
I never thought that season 2 was too bad a mess. Personally I feel that the kill-'em-all endings in Zeta and Victory are hard to pull off well. I just get the impression that everyone died because Tomino felt like it, rather than because of anything they or the villains did.
I mean, killing people is easy; finding reasons to kill them is harder; letting their survival promote proper character development, hardest of all, but most worth it.
They said it has something to do with inspired by Shinsengumi fate.
@@algernonilfracombe generally I agree with what you have said, but many events in S2 were just insulting my intelect. Let me quote myself from the other comment - "Seriously I'm suposed to belive, that McGillis, the guy who was able to masterfully manipulate takkedan, teiwaz, Gjallarhorn and oposition inside gjallarhorn at the same time, did all of this just to get the bael, because that would crown him as the new emperor of earth? Or how Rustal, after speaking how he will destroy takkedan for political gains, was satisfied with destroying one barbatos and gusion? Or how nobody in the freaking town noticed group of 100 children in takkedan suits standing on the rooftop just after gjallarhorn broadcasted live footage of their "ultimate destruction"? It was even more stupid after you remember, that orga died near the entrance to this freaking tunel, despite the fact that nobody even knew he was in town. I didn't expect IBO to end well (tbh I was suprised how many people survived), but season 2 was almost a total disaster to me."
@acidous yeah orga wanting thinking his struggling band of mercenaries would be better off ruling mars always seemed kinda dumb tbh. Like as a small part of McGillis's reform government would make alot more sense, but what exactly McGrillis's regime would look like in practice was never explained
In my case that missed attack on season 2 make me liked even more IBO I rooted for them but it make a lot of sense that they missed. Till that point there was always a secret high risk high reward card that they pulled up and they always won because of that, so having them gamble everything for the win as always on that important battle and show that gamble fail it make sense.
When I first saw Biscuit I couldn't help but think of him as a Musashi/Benkei from Getter Robo, then he died and my thoughts were confirmed.
The argument that Tekkaden are the villains in S2 and that Rustel's faction are the heroes falls flat when across the board Rustel and the old guard of Gjallarhorn are shown to be far more morally wrong than McGillis and Tekkaden. At best it's a conflict between two ethically wrong sides, but Rustel's faction of Gjallarhorn are not "heroes" they are not the good guys.
Gjallarhorn was a corrupt authoritarian regime through and through. There's legal class discrimination allowed in the colonies. They armed the union workers with weapons that didn't work so they could have an excuse to kill them, which is also a war crime, they staged a bombing to fire on peaceful, if armed, protestors. They staged a proxy war between the SAU and Arbau, they interfered with Arbrau's elections, attempted to assassinate an innocent teenaged activist and committed war crimes such as the use of the deinsleifs and firing upon non combatants and they set up the Turbines for no reason other than petty revenge. Even Tekkaden, who are shown to be incredibly ruthless take prisoners.
Gjallarhorn are by no means heroes and their actions were far worse than anything that McGillis and Tekkaden ever did.
McGillis may have been making a grab for power, but he is absolutely correct that Gjallarhorn was a corrupt entity in need of reform. And Tekkaden wanting to be rulers of Mars isn't even that off base from what they were working towards in S1. What better way to gain Martian Independence than being given control of the planet by McGillis?
Rustal is "good guy" to the media. The media believed Rustal is the good guy and just find Tekkadan to be just a terrorist organization. Remember Rustal group controls the media, he is a dirty politician who use dirty tricks to achieve his goal
if tekkadan was allowed to actually become the kings of mars they would have started dropping colonies, this series is a perfect example of no matter who wins everything sucks.
Uh. . . . Anyone in their right mind would know that Tekkaden aren't that immoral to commit a hainous act like that. They arent even close. At worst they are Ammoral but not that bad. I have no idea where you got that idea from. What possible reason would they have to do that anyway? Tekkaden are quite noble if you ask me. Deposited the mistakes they've made. If anything Ghiallerhorn is more capable of something that devastating.
The second half of Season 2 felt incredibly contrived, especially since McGillis was rewritten into an idiot, because the show's creator really wanted to kill off the main cast, and not bring back Gaelio.
yeah that was my main problem. i felt like Mcgillis and Rustal were supposed to equal IQ-wise then Mcgillis gets obsessed with Bael and Agnika Kaieru legend
I completely disagree, McGillis was always an idiot. A Fascist madman thinking he's better than everyone else.
See I don't see Mcgillis in season 2 as dum, I see him as Char, if Char didn't have Sayla, (the remnant of a more peaceful past/life) and or the events of Zeta Gundam. Mcgillis uses his friends and comrades for his own gains and disposes of them when it benefits him. Char did that in MSG but unlike Char who took a step back, Mcgillis charged ahead. By the end it was the fact that he alienated everyone with his actions, that by the time he got the Bael, all he had was Tekkaden and even THEY wanted to leave him at the end.
I agree like suddenly in Season 2 a lot of characters started behaving like idiots, especially McGillis
@@itsdantaylor He was absolutely dumb. His entire plan can be summarized by
1. Get into Gundam Bael which by the show's story there are now magic gundam killing weapons.
2. Somehow everyone will piss themselves upon seeing Gundam Jesus.
And someone people bought this shit.
IBO is a beautiful masterpiece of how Pride & Greed is the fall to anyone ❤ to put my opinion into the idea that S2 felt rushed and & had to many “cooks” in the kitchen I think that idea helps to blend the what I feel is the theme of Tekkaden’s story together, that the future isn’t lenient to those who have succeeded and sadly Tekkaden couldn’t take the wrath of the future due to things like Pride, greed, & even Orga’s selfishness
Imagine if they didn't get involved with Mcpedo's rebellion. They'd all be rich af living the good life by now. But they got greedy. That whole King of Mars had too nice of a ring to it.
Facts! I absolutely hate how Orga managed to fuck up a future of wealth over some "street" shit. Many nations came up like tekkaden irl. They maintained that power by "settling" down and playing office politics. Orga should've matured and handled Jasley in discretion not straight up gun them down on some tribalism shit.
I mean tbf they were still young and naive, they barely have any skills and experience when it comes too analyzing suspicious offers, Orga also lost his voice of reason (Biscuit) who helped him thinked twice before doing something unbelievably stupid.
@@JoseMarquez-vw1xh if only biscuit didnt die none of that will happen orga decision was rash without thinking the consequence later also the reason why mcgilis started his early rebellion because of orga rash decision and thats why Rustal use his illegal weapon on them during battlle he knows he cant win on them headon
@@aerosdacillo1227 What irritates me is that the adults fail to be a voice of reason after Biscuit died. Merribit who's supposed to be keeping an eye on them doesn't have enough push to keep Orga and the kids in check. While the old maintenance man has resigned to leaving the kids do their things. In the end, I can't help but be amused that Zach whose actions might be seen as cowardly is probably the only voice of reason left in Tekkadan, while everyone else has gone insane and insisted on staying in their fast sinking ship.
They threw in with McGillis because he promised them they would be safe in the new world order. Which is kind of a big deal considering they were getting back stabbed the whole season. There was nothing greedy about it. (I find the whole notion pretty dusgusting. What kind of author choses a character who has LITERALLY NOTHING as a vehicle for a morality play about greed?)
Also becaue Kudelia and Makanai are mysteriously absent and unable to help because of PLOT.
I really loved IBO kinda liked how they didn't have a happy ending, it still hurt seeing them get defeated also the gundams are named after demons of the Ars Goetia
Yeah it's to show that almost nothing good relly comes out of them they only get used to make things worse
This is a strange case of a show I'll never watch again because that first viewing is so precious to my favorite show ever
Basically, IBO shows you how heroes eventually become what they hate if they lose their moral compass. And it was extremely refreshing to see brutal mecha fights that used melee weapons instead of overused / OP / eye-blinding beam weapons, and all the deaths were really gut-wrenching in a good way!
Personally I felt that IBO committed the greatest Sin any Sci-Fi series can by making its backstory event more interesting than the story they are trying to tell in the mainline plot. As most already pined but the Calamity War events from the little seeds that IBO had planted for sure have a mountain more potential to make a more intensely interesting story or at least the potential or it. Just my .02$
See, I disagree with that. Things like that are excellent world-building ideas because they draw intrigue and make the world feel bigger.
Honestly, that's probably what PD has over all the other AU's. There's just a ton of hinted at space to fill in.
@@brandonbrown6922 Soooo.... mystery box?
@@laststrike4411 Not quite, since none of that hinted space is necessary to understand the plot.
@@brandonbrown6922 I see. Either way, I'm not particularly enthralled with it all the same.
I think its more of a clever twist than a sin though. It simply establishes that there is more to this world than them. Kind of like "Goblin Slayer" the Light Novel (I'm not a fan of the anime).
I felt some realism to this, man. The political scandals was just feels.
Also I am feeling slightly isolated as the one guy who liked Miguelis. Abused, betrayed, calloused and trying so hard.
I cannot help but sympathize with the boy. However, his pride was his downfall, and I make a point to be proud *after* I've won.
Oh hey, fellow McGillis fan! For me, I really feel his absolute frustration and anger at the establishment, and his desire to essentially just treat it like a shounen and save it by going apeshit.
@@0th_Law
Well you can find a behaviour like that in many kinds of people far more nice or cruel than McGillis, so I feel compelled to ask if you happen to be fond of a lot of revolutionaries?
@@TheKing-qz9wd Well, I *am* an Anarchist. Go figure, I suppose.
@@0th_Law
I figured you'd be in Antifa or something, so anarchist would make sense.
Monarchist. Having one head guy to blame makes things easier in a way.
The King Like, actually? Can you elaborate on your logic for Monarchism? I’m genuinely baffled.
I was having a pretty bad day, but seeing this in my sub box, made me smile
Iron Blooded Orphans was my first Gundam I’ve seen. It’s what got me interested in the Gundam Franchise. And I will say, despite the story not being like rest of the Franchise, it was a confusing, yet enjoyable entry into the Franchise
This really helps me put to words the feelings i had about this series.
I absolutely adore the inversion of each of the main party's roles, and the integral legacy each of those parties overcome or undo.
War isn't happy fun times.
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
If you don't watch out you'll become the monster you've been fighting.
Hatred grows more hatred.
Those are the things I think of when I think of IBO.
Anyone else think the exact opposite?
War time is joyous and hatred is the emotion of truth?
Just me? Eh, just me.
Oh, one like? Mmm, a battle brother.
Hmmm... on the one hand, I have to agree that you had a point that they were the antagonists by siding with the blonde guy. But that ending was not satisfying. That reckoning hasn't come to pass and it still infuriates me that the only reason a positive change came about by the end was because too many of the Seven Stars had been killed to maintain the old system. Rustal was forced to change the system but he and his subordinate still ended up on top of the new system they made. Even prior to that their tactics hadn't changed either when you consider they pulled the same False Flag operation they did on the colony that Biscuit's Brother was by basically manipulating the facts so they could justify excessive force, which was the same with when they were on Earth and Rustal's agent basically got their members killed.
You can justify that they were ambitious and became the antagonist, but when you look at Rustal's actions and the system they were preserving, I don't think they were wrong in pursuing the change even if it meant siding with McGillis.
You're actually in the right. The video calls McGillis a "would be tyrant" but what he wanted was to reform the already tyranical system in place.
Also agree in that Tekkadan aren't really villains from a narrative standpoint (from a metanarrative standpoint, in contrast to other Gundam series, I can see it being true).
In the ending, Julietta says that the members of Tekkadan weren't devils but more human than anybody else. Their society had no place for them but the battlefield, and despite being against incredibly stacked odds, they managed to change the world for the better by destabilizing Gjallarhorn so much that it forced their hand into conceding and negotiating to tone down their despotism. It's kind of a "happy" resolution if we look at the big picture, all the personal tragedy that ocurred notwithstanding, and for that it's a very compelling ending for me at least.
I'm happy that I am not the only one that thought this. I was like, "Am I crazy? Did we watch the same show??"
I have to agree completely with Hastat & Micheal Bates. How did the video uploader form such a conclusion when Tekkaden & even Mcgillis had more of a moral highground than Rustal during the 2nd Season if you paid attention? Keep in mind that Rustal went out of his way to slaughter underage soldiers. Cutting off their surrender was a huge war crime & using outlawed weapons like that is another. Someone needs to get a Geneva Expert to watch this series & then explain how wrong the video uploader is. "They used 1 first" isn't a valid justification when using outlawed weapons on a battlefield & I'm sure the War Crimes committee of our real world would have Rustal's head for his actions.
My head cannon makes the Calamity War be a reference to Gundam Wing.
The Alaya-Vinjana being a 3rd generation zero system.
Frozen teardrop even has colonization of mars, making the little flower scenes poignant.
Bael=Talgeese/Wing Zero?
no, in a world of ms carrying the firepower to instant kill colonys with beam rifles, it makes no sense to get back to normal boomsticks.
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 its actually talked about in story. The big mobile armor shoots out a beam and the barbatos reflects it off and they talk about how all later gundams were designed to reflect beam weapons. Hence the return to boomsticks. I mean even Epyon is a big contender to the other Gundams and he just has a sword and whip. And the cloth cloaks are suppose to be beam resistant.
LOL imagine post disaster being an accelerated after colony
I've never watched the other shows, but I've always loved season 2. Biscuit's death in season 1 always felt like a turn. It's no longer an epic space odyssey about scrappy heroes rising against the odds. It's a tragedy. It's a tragedy where we see our heroes strengths be the thing that destroys them. The wild and reckless plans that managed to get them through season 1? They aren't working anymore because people have learned. And people are dying because of it. The driving force behind our heroes has always been Orga's desire to give his family a better life. And in season two, we see that he's aware that there is more he can do for his family, and he takes that path. Things that gave our heroes strength are killing them.
My biggest problem with season 2 is literally its ending, especially mika, who got good a point where literally no other character in series could challenge him and they needed to kill him off somehow, result wasnt great.
Besides that one anticlimactic end i can honestly recommend it, though imo they should have went for season 3 or at least make a movie.
"Characters die"
Patrick Colasour : 👀
just ended it 2 days ago, plus congrats on nearly 60k subs I remember subbing when you were 8.9k
The major downfall of season 2 for me was the way the writers made Tekkadan and McGillis fail.
I was fine with a bittersweet ending, but the way the writers seemed to bend over backwards to make it happen just made it really fustrating to watch.
I don't understand why they went out of their way to create such unsatisfying events leading to their downfall when it could be so easy to write around.
E.g. Let the flauros get overwhelmed and tackled by enemy suits as the reason it missed the shot instead of its aim getting misalligned by Julia while in combat with Mikazuki of all people. The worst part was Mikazuki demolishing her and then letting her live on despite her proving to be a hindrance to Tekkadan.
Calling Mcgillis a tyrant is such a woeful misread of his character it's funny.
Finally someone says it.
IBO is the reason I came back to Gundam series, never knew a mecha anime would be on top of my anime list.
NGL, the story is cool, the ending sucked but admit it, the real reason we all love it so much is because damn barbatos is soooooooooo COOL. Honestly barbatos rivals the epicness of gundams like sazabi and the unicorn. It’s just soo damn cool.
Iron blooded orphans is about politics and corruption. Showing the true capabilities of a corrupt general is the perfect way to end the series.
I hate barbatos so much man, hate how it looks animalistic, even if that is the point.
Barbatos is so dope!!!
I actually love the ending, it was sad, and the Mika and Akihiro are left with nothing but they stayed to protect the others and follow through with Orgas final orders and their deaths are tragic but finally put them at peace, I think the episode should have ended there, or should have fully eradicated tekkaden, my only complaint is it didn't go far enough the how should have had three seasons tbh
@@linebacker5814 I completely agree. It was tough losing them all.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET THE NEXT SERIES BE A PREQUEL TO IBO.
WE HAVE YET TO SEE A SKYNET-LIKE TIMELINE OR STORY. A CALAMITY WAR PREQUEL
Funny cause there have been a few "pre wars 100 so or less years ago" story's in SEEDS reconstruction war prior to CE or after war gundam Xs 7th space war itself
A great video and retrospective; I always respected Season 2, but now I have a more concrete way of explaining why- thank you for this!
And damn, older Ride reminds me of Sakaido from ID:INVADED!
I got that feeling of connectedness the strongest right at the end. I assumed Mika was meant to be a new type, his connection with Orga, Attara, Cudellia seeming to continue even after death.
My biggest problem with season 2 is that the new villains don’t feel like they deserve to win. Jullia’s final “kill” on mikazuki isn’t earned. Rustle has no connection to the main cast.
They had enough time to actually have them do things to make them likeable but Rustal's lackeys just say the exact same lines over and over. Juila just simps and Iok thinks he's some noble hero.
Season 2 was basically a giant circuit, where thee main casts are fighting for who's the biggest clown in this circuit.
This makes things so much clearer for IBO cuz I was confused in why my boys died off like that
"When the fat kid dies..."
Dude, don't disrespect Biscuit like that. :(
"The guy who wants to murder child slaves for defending themselves, and weaponized a murderous psychopath to do it, is better than the children trying to gain enough power to end child slavery."
I get what you're trying to say, but the writing of IBO flopped hard if this is what they were going for. Becoming "kings of mars" was always about getting enough power to end the practice of using orphans as slave labor and cannon fodder. Their enemy in season 2 is the same corrupt organization that tried to kill them in season 1, led by a man who was every bit as tyrannical as McGillis. They were framed for crimes they didn't commit and cornered. It's hard to see that as anything other than a corrupt authoritarian regime doing everything possible to stay in power, and children being trampled on for that end.
And somehow Gjallarhorn just magically turns itself into a democratic government in the end after McGillis, the main figure behind the coup is killed while the rest of the corrupted Gjallarhorn higher-ups are still alive and kicking, that's not how it works man. Unless Rustal just decided to wipe them out as well with his mighty Dainsleif.
sounds pretty realistic, it's not the writing flopped but it's how you see it as unjustified and unfair which what i believe that what author aiming for, that's life also orga still a kid and naive he's paid the price for trying to achive "king of mars"
Whoa... I honestly wasn't sure what I was getting into once I clicked your video. It helped me see the flaws in the second season but show me a new appreciation to the show compare to other series regarding its theme and symbolism. It bring something fresh to the series we don't see in other gundam shows. Thank for the video. To me at least IBO, has been a good series Sunrise produce in a long while compare some modern Gundam series.
I started with IBO too. I was really conflicted about how it panned out... however I still loved it. And you analysis was nothing short of incredible.
Tekkadan was doomed from the start. They were children. Their big "goal" from the start was "a place where they belonged". Of course they lost sight of it, of course they were misled by adults they shouldn't have trusted and of course they didn't listen to the adults they should have, they were children. In all actuality all they knew about was war, but what happens when that war goes away? They grew up so screwed up that they literally couldn't see the bigger picture. It's an idea that was touched upon in Wing EW. "What happens to the soliders when there is nothing left to fight, who only know how to fight?". 00 also somewhat touched upon it with Setsuna and Azadistan.
Ibo I can't see a Gundam series coming close too it this was elite
The original 80s Gundam stuff is better
"shocking deaths aside--"
**shows lafter**
Yo man, you don't have to be that hard on us...
IBO season 2 feels like if Jared had won Zeta Gundam -_-
6:30, as a long time Tabletop RPG player, watching the second season felt pretty much just like a campaign run by a particularly nasty DM who made sure the situation would continue to stack against us as long as we were succeeding on rolls, he basically just had us keep on rolling until the nat 1 hit he could finally screw our plans over with for no reason other than, "Ha, nat 1, you all FAIL!"
It hurts to watch this, because IBO is my favorite gundam series by far
*Me being 7 minutes in*
"It feel's contrived"
"Bad story writing"
"Needs to have build up"
Me: So...it was good?
It is not bad story writing
Second season was frustating and with a bad exercution tô what they wanted
I recently finished the series. Had me in tears more than the ending of Gurren Lagan.
This is a cool take, and I can see where you're coming from. Although I'm not sure if it excuses all the writing in season 2, I dig this interpretation. It also paints me a better picture of just why exactly the most fun I had with season 2 was indeed that mobile armor arc. It all makes sense now haha. I've been rewatching (or watching for the first time) every single Gundam series lately, and I'm looking forward to my rewatch of IBO a little more now.
Even only watching 2 full series of Gundam Iron Blooded Orphan's reversal in the end was very clear to me, as much as I hated some of the "antagonists" near the end their narrow misses and successes despite all odds had a weird sense of melancholy, the losses of the protaginists were good things. I kept hoping that Tekkaden would throw off McGillis and fight for their own cause again but in a way what did they have to fight for, they were fighting to secure their own place in the world not to better it. Everything was also driven home and reinforced in the epilogue, that Tekkaden losing at that moment was the right thing for the world, and that the paths the "antagonists" took as well as the survivors of tekkaden working under Kudelia made the world an objectively better place. They hadn't fought to save it from disaster, they fought to shape it to their will as you said.
All in all Iron Blooded Orphans is genuinely among my favorite of the series I've watched so far, in themes, gundam design, the feel of combat, and atmosphere, I didn't realize that it was especially controversial and even unliked because I was really hoping for it to be expanded more, maybe future series will try to explore the concepts Iron Blooded Orphans touched on through different perspectives in a way that guides those who otherwise were just more annoyed by how it went in IBO.
You’re nuts, this is my favorite Gundam.
The thing we forget about IBO is that it was in development hell for years and it shows. The core story would have hit hard when development started in 2008-9, but the ideas it picked up along the way feel more and more distant from the core premise, and the actual scripts feel like they were written by people who barely remembered who these characters were supposed to be beyond their archetype.
that, explains a lot
lol even the spinoff game is still stuck in the development hell right now. They announced an IBO mobile game years back and we still haven't heard anything from the dev team, maybe they are just trying to figure out how to write a descent story.
That would explain why I kept waiting for Orga to shout "believe in the me that believes in you."
"Are we the baddies?"
I had to watch all my favorite characters die in vain one after the other, only to watch the princess shake hands with villains that killed them while they smiled.
Fuck this show's ending.
I feel ya that was painful to see
PREACH!!
This is the only anime that made me cry
The big picture was showing that no matter how hard the less fortunate class works it can all be taken away by the rich for little to not reason and swiftly..