Hi! Great video discussion, very respectfully approached and delivered. I do want to respectfully address a few of the points made here. The comment regarding my saying that Kenpo techniques were not meant to be performed against trained fighters...isn't accurate. I said they were not designed to be performed in SPARRING. As in, they are not meant to be copied and pasted directly into a sparring match. That's a distinct difference. You made the comment that sequential drills that teach multiple things at a time are valid. That's EXACTLY what Kenpo techniques are. They are basically mini Kata that teach several different concepts in "sample" situations. There are specific lessons for each technique. A lot of it is academic, a lot of it is applicable. I want to address the comment about the criticism of the "What if" phase and the "why are the modified versions" not taught. You left out my point about the third and most important phase of Kenpo training, which is "formulation and freestyle". Phase 1: we learn the individual aspects the technique is teaching us. Phase 2: We learn how to address those aspects when things go wrong. Phase 3: we are at a point where we can be in any given position or situation and recognize on the fly what our options are and then apply any given specific idea we've learned from those techniques. The freestyle and formulation is where the student is able to apply the material for real. I have pulled of many fragments of techniques in sparring. Crossing Talon, Five Swords, Deflecting Hammer, Intellectual Departure, Shield and Mace, and the numerous buckles, checks, rebounding strikes, redirections, and takedowns have come in handy during sparring. They worked not as the "copied and pasted" sequence, but because I recognized specific details on the fly and was able to resort to ideas and fragments taught from the techniques. Heck, I saw just a couple of months ago in person a fellow instructor pull of "Squeezing the peach" in a sparring match, and it worked beautifully. If you don't understand how surprising that is...TH-cam that technique. They ARE taught in the modified version. Each technique has a counterpart somewhere in the systems with the "what if" answer. If all we taught was the modified version... then THAT becomes a Kenpo technique and the new "what if" would be what it played out the original way. Drawing out the curriculum and being the CrossFit of Martial arts, I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. There IS a lot of material, and you could argue there is too much academic info, but the system is not drawn out and it takes the same amount of time to rank in Kenpo as most styles of Karate. Being able to process the academic and separate it from application falls on the instructor teaching it. I have used Kenpo techniques in sparring, and in real life, and they have worked. My instructor worked as a bouncer and used several. Many of my classmates had self defense situations where they resorted to what they learned in techniques, and they worked. While I agree and can respect many of your points, I do feel that maybe some of mine have been misinterpreted, as the video you are responding to is a 9 minute "excerpt" which was clearly marked as such in the beginning, from a 1 hour and 44 minute online discussion. I have also addressed many points in another full video "Does Kenpo Suck". (I will post link as a reply to this comment in case it's picked up by the filter). Is Kenpo for everyone? No of course not, no style is. But it absolutely has value and works for some people, it's just another way to learn martial arts. Everyone learns differently, and it's a matter of finding a way to digest material that makes sense to you. If Kenpo isn't it, then I fully respect that. But I feel that many times the criticism is targeted at specific elements without experiencing or understanding the full picture.
For discussion's sake, I want to make two things very clear 1) I am a Kajukenbo black belt. While we can argue to what degree Kajukenbo is a Kenpo-style....it is a Kenpo style, so I am familiar with the techniques - at least in the way they are practiced and developed. 2) Of course, of course, of course, a person's enjoyment and individual experience will always trump any other "reason" for training in a given martial art. if your martial art involves you putting on a gi and playing chess in the park, and you enjoy it, then live your life. That being said, my ultimate point with this video is that Kenpo (in general) teaches techniques and methods that do not quickly, and most effectively, teach fighting for sport or self defense. Do the movements work? Yes. Like I said in the video, swinging your arm as fast as you can and meeting another human being with it will damage them. Striking, ripping, grabbing, blocking, those are all universal movements that obviously work. It is the METHOD of teaching that I take issue with. However, I agree that there is nuance between what is "academic" and what is "practical," and maybe there needs to be more appreciation for martial arts practices for their own sake, rather than those that seek to develop someone as a fighter (in sport or otherwise.)
@@CombatSelfDefense Well the truth is the method differs for everyone. There could be a debate between being effective for self defense vs fighting (there is a difference). The honest truth is, some people take to the teaching, some don't. If it didn't work for some people then it wouldn't be around today in the volume that it is. Are some arts better for other people? Or do other arts having teaching methods that are more conducive for others? Of course. But the hard fact is, it's worked for me, it's worked for many people I know, and that fact alone is enough to tell me there is some merit to it. It all comes down to the level of understanding the material, the way it's taught, and the effort the student puts into it. To compare it to playing chess in the park is a bit insulting. We have hundreds of choices of martial arts. There is a method of teaching out there for everyone, and it's far more productive to focus on that aspect and improve oneself instead of trying to put down what someone else is doing.
@@CombatSelfDefense first thing you are taught in Kenpo when under attack is to step back, get out of the way. That does not take long to learn. Kenpo is boxing based. It does not take long at all to learn how to fight in sport or self defense. There is proof in the fact a Kenpo man has the record for the most wins in the oldest US open tournament, the Long Beach Internationals.
I've worked in Law enforcement for over 20 years. I've been involved in countless uses of force going hands on. The last five have been working in one of the toughest prisons in Florida. Probably the country. We house the worst of the worst. American Kenpo techniques seem to work fine on inmates that train in all kinds of different types of systems. So based on my training and experience, Kenpo, if you actually learn it, is extremely effective.
I know Kenpo works. I'm a 5ft short female and it has saved me, more than once. That's what counts, It worked for me!! And could many others. Take care Everyone 💖
Exactly, instead of talking he should go train at a Kenpo school. I have heard several stories of Kenpo stylists successfully defending themselves on the street so obviously this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. One of my instructors told me a cop he knew was able to subdue a suspect high on drugs while all the other cops couldn't do anything to stop him. He had hit him so many times within just a few seconds the guys entire face was completely swollen.
Right. My instructors told me the "techniques" would not work as taught, but developed muscle memory and options. As a former prison guard I can attest to it's effectiveness. People watch training videos and think that's how the art is to be applied.
@@EricDraven-ci8wi Yes, I had n still have a great instructor. I've also had the Honor of also being taught by some of the best in Kenpo! A lot of them have passed away. But the wonderful memories and lessons are still with me ❣️.
I had to use Kenpo to defend myself seven times in the past fifty years. It was between ages 30- and 45. They all took one move and they were down. Now, I am 5'2", slim, somewhat muscular (lift weights) and small boned. Does American Kenpo workj? Absolutely! I still teach and workout in Kenpo every week. I only teach adults. Sifu Puyallup, WA
Yeah, my friend trained under Jeff Speakman. He took out several cops at a house party. I didn't witness it but his sister did. Kenpo works but you can’t simply learn it overnight like Krav Maga.
@Jake Collins Nah, it's not fishy. It's a product of the splintering of the art after Ed Parker's death. I know more than a few dojos that were legit Ed Parker dojos that have adopted this nomenclature and others like it.
I'm a senior kenpo blackbelt with experience in muay thai, BJJ, MMA etc and a nightclub doorman for 20 years, and I would agree Kenpo techniques dont work in their dojo form, but if you train them with the right entry, with escalating noncompliance they can be applied ,but in a taylored way. that is my experience anyway
Easier to box, wrestle and add in some submissions, cuts out the time wasted, and the possibility of dellusional thinking in that your kenpo, or krav maga, tae kwon do, will work in a real life situation, it really doesn't unless you understand this, and throw out what doesn't work, and have natural fighting abilities to begin with.
@@WhySoSerious551 but boxing and MMA is based on two guys matched on size and weight meeting at a set time and place and agreeing to a rule set and then only being told they are allowed to fight after a bunch of space is made between them and a third party makes sure they are ready. Is that what you consider real fighting? Because that's not how violence happens in real life.
@@seric4546 MMA is just a mixture of disciplines, I don't believe in weight classes, but if there were none we wouldn't know Connor McGregor's name, which would be a good thing. When you have to fight you fight, no third parties, less people the better.
If this individual actually accumulated these ideas about kenpo while using them in fights, it would be much more believable. I've been practicing the art since 1994.So In the mean time I will continue practicing Kenpo and knowing it is most definitely an effective street fighting art.
45 years of kenpo . Not one street fight, came close but chose to de escalate or retreat. “The art of fighting without fighting” a quote from a movie that started my quest in the martial arts . I believe I can say I was confidently taught well . Thanks for the insight .
Ok but u don’t need to train Kemp to learn to defuse a situation . Martial arts should be about self defense and learning to fight . Otherwise what’s it for ? I understand u don’t want to fight but u should be able to . Kemp Is so unrealistic . That’s not how fights go in the real world.
@@daviddelarosa5188 okay but it obviously worked for this gentleman if he didn't get into any fights. THAT is successful self-defense. I mostly do bjj nowadays but even if I did an art that didn't compete or spar like kempo and I successfully defused situations based solely off of confidence then that is a win
My dad is a 10th degree SGM who ran a dojo for many years, & personally trained in a close relationship under Mr. Ed Parker. It is a self defense/ combat capable style, but also an art form. Created by merging Chinese/ Japanese Kenpo with street fighting, it's been proven to be extremely effective in a variety of situations. The long forms used, are creating muscle memory, & refining accuracy/ speed/ power. Those moves are also meant for the possibility of multiple on one attack. It's not truly represented because in its nature, is meant to break/ damage/ immobilize your opponents. It's rarely used in full contact sports, as strikes are meant to attack weak targets (throat, groin, neck, joints, organs, etc). If someone comes at you with a knife, do you use 1-2 moves to knock it away? Or do you break the wrist, elbow, & shoulder ensuring it, or that arm won't be raised against you again? The art, is how many of those breaks you can make in those precious few seconds. In the end, like any martial art, you get out what you put in. My dad has Alzheimer's now, but after 60+ years of training those forms, his muscle memory is still on point.
I agree with most everything you said. I'm not going to claim knowledge of other people that did unknown things. I'm going to tell you the one and only time I attempted to use a Kenpo technique in its entirety. I was in a bar in college and I used Five Swords on a guy that grabbed me and cocked back to throw a punch. It scared the crud out of me because I thought I killed him for a second. In other words, it worked. When I joined the military in my 20s I started training BJJ and MT. Admittedly, they are a lot more practical in terms of fighting and, unfortunately, I had opportunity to test them too frequently. However, I also found that the concepts I learned in Kenpo were practical and helpful in my study and application of other combat arts. In short, Kenpo techniques are effective against, as you said, unskilled and untrained opponents which, imo, are the vast majority of the people on this planet.
And to your point I believe that Ed Parker was a great reformer of Karate so that people could apply it in self defense situations....I have never been in a real fight but have witnessed more than a few where the people picking the fight or who were being picked on got nearly killed by street fighting types. I'm certain that if the victim had known and practiced even a small amount of Kempo they would not have found themselves lying on their backs defenseless getting kicked in the head. Sustaining injuries maybe, but their knowledge of Kempo would have provided them with skills to defend against extreme injury. Even for a non black belt, the awareness that is tought by good Kempo teachers would have saved them.
When I was 19, as an orange belt training for my purple belt, I was drunk at a party and a frat boy tried to take advantage. He had me flat on my back before my training finally kicked out the thoughts of "what if I overreact" and kicked in with LeBounty's "not me, not today!" I had been learning Hooking Wings and loved the circular nature of the second part of the technique. Well, it worked. I heard a crack as my back knuckle hit his nose and I pushed him off me. That was the only time I've ever had to use karate. Sparring wouldn't have helped me much in that situation as he was much heavier and stronger than me, but a nose is a nose, no matter on what face. Here's the thing with techniques: they are like the first sentences you write after you learn the alphabet. In karate, they would be your basic punches, blocks, parries, and kicks. Yellow belt techniques are only 2-3 moves, brown belt's can be 10-12. But it let's you practice on partners of various sizes and shapes, and allows you to see what work for you and what doesn't. It also teaches us how the body will likely react when hit a certain way. If I punch someone in the throat, they will likely throw their head back before grabbing their throat and bending over. The next logical strike would be the groin since it will be open. The opposite will also be true. So just like with letters strung together to make words, and words strung together to make sentences, the better you get at your vocabulary, the better you will be able to master words on the fly when needed. And this includes using proper grammar. Bottom line, techniques are great for real world attacks like a shove in a bar an ass grab or book grab, or an idiot throws a hay maker. There aren't too many street fight that last longer than a minute as the victim would want to get away to safety as quickly as possible. I'm sure there are way more of these than we typically hear about too, so to day techniques don't work is really just one person saying "I'm not good at them" or "I don't like them."
Many times, the labels we place on subjects of discussion really create a barrier to understanding. Many different approaches fall under the Kenpo label and almost none of them train in the exact same manner. Even within the more specific category of Kenpo from the lineage of SGM Ed Parker Sr. you have vast differences in the way his system was trained. I mean drastic changes in every aspect that you can, and many do, argue that the different phases were different arts, since they had different names. Old School Kenpo Karate was trained very different then the Chinese Kenpo phase and that was very different from American Kenpo and so on. Then within each of those categories you have those direct students of his who taught their own students with their own unique approaches, often blending their previous or later martial arts training into their own approach. So, when anyone comes along and slaps down the sloppy, imprecise label Kenpo and starts painting with a wide brush about its techniques as if we all train the same way or do the same techniques you have to say "knock it off" because it's laughably, ludicrous. Frank Trejo did not teach the same way that Larry Tatum does, and they came up the ranks together under the same teacher. Mike Pick did not teach 10th Special Forces Kenpo the same way that Jeff Speakman taught. Even now Jeff Speakman does not teach the same way he taught in his early years because even among a single instructor the training methodology and technical understanding can change over time. When I taught Kenpo during the war, I did not teach it the same way that I learned it from my own teacher. I have my preferences and my understanding of Kenpo demanded that my teaching fit the context and environment that the practitioners would be operating in. Don't judge ALL Kenpo on a text book layout of a Kenpo curriculum, Don't judge ALL Kenpo on training with one or two teachers, Paul Mills tested his Kenpo as a bouncer for decades and I know his approach and techniques are very different from the approach of Richard Planas. These days Martial Artists cross train and cross reference each others approaches to an even greater extent than was the case in ancient times. So of course many Kenpo instructors have compared skills with Muay Thai practitioners and Judo or Jujutsu practitioners and so on, just like the Kaju folks did in Hawaii and those who felt like they needed to adjust this or that aspect of training did so and many found no need to change their approach because they found that what they did was working fine for them. I understand the need to title TH-cam videos with controversial titles to get more views but it can also have a side effect of having so many people listen to what is being said and dismiss the Instructor as simply inexperienced. Just my two cents.
A fantastic viewpoint sir! 👏🏻 The art evolves with each generation, & it's next masters. That's why you used to have to write a thesis before approval of the upper black belt echelon promotions could even be considered. My dad wrote the utilization of torque, linear motion, & marriage of gravity; in the 500 pound drop. Also worth noting... Dad also told me that in his later years, Mr. Parker split the style into 4 variations, to know where Kenpo students were learning their forms, & who from. I believe only the greats (like Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Roger Meadows, Steve Herring, Dave Menifee, Yoshio Furuya, etc) truly know either the original & all 4 variations of the style.
I am a 3rd Dan in IKCA Kenpo under Sifu Greg Payne. Kenpo can be more simplified than the most practiced, Ed Parker's American Kenpo. That's what IKCA Kenpo is. It is Kenpo in a more raw form. It has all the same principles and concepts of American Kenpo but does not repeat them over and over again within its techniques and form. That isn't to say that American Kenpo is wrong or bad. But yes, there's a lot of stuff drawn out. When you break the concepts into their simplest forms, it's extremely good. Similar words can be found in other responses in this thread. In addition to my Kenpo I was also taught a form of street applicable Judo. That means less throws and techniques that emphasized being on the floor for extended periods of time and relying on garments to hold. This blend of Judo fit very nicely with my Kenpo. To this day it is very useful. I worked security and bouncing and later with youth in an alternative to detention program. I've had plenty of opportunities to use and evaluate the effectiveness of my training. However, with that said, I never have been to a point where I have had to pull out my striking ability. My grappling had been enough. What has come into play were knowledge of principles of motion, autonomic responses to stimulus, and awareness honed in Kenpo training. I'm a believer in you need both striking and grappling. Need pants and long sleeves if you're in the cold. The other thing I believe as a Kenpo guy or self-defense practitioner is that body toughening, strength training is also very necessary for self-defense purposes when learning striking arts. That means developing bones to be able to hit and also be hit, muscle and aerobic fitness to have stability, stamina and the not-so-simple confidence to survive. To me, techniques mean very little if you are brittle. This applies to all arts. Your sword don't matter if you can't pick it up and swing through your targets. Osu
Huh, I'd have figured street judo to want to emphasize techniques that applied to clothing. I know you can do a lot of things to people that are wearing clothes with bjj than you can for people who aren't.
I agree. As an IKCA member under Sifu Glen Lyman there was so much I learned in the way of blending, continous sparing instead of point sparing, and cross training with schools of other styles.
@@mc.9839 I won the British open sambo championships with six months training under my belt years ago, with ease. You're either a naturally good fighter, or not, you can improve someone that isn't but they'll never have the aggression, reaction speed, ability to see and exploit openings and just be an animal, I was doing this before I ever trained. Then I boxed, did Greco Roman, taught In the Royal marines, I have a good idea what works and what is a waste of time. Picked up something on the post, I could toy with black belts in judo, sambo before I ever trained, how.., genetics, and experience fighting, they never had a fight or experienced my ferocity. I teach people to concentrate on a half dozen submissions, basic takedowns, takedown defense, control, boxing, and other bits that merge with all that, it's easier to drill what you need, than waste time on what you do not. Just a solid take down defense, striking and knowing how to apply a few submissions from mount or work in the guard, get out of it, things get so over complicated. Look up mirko cro cop, best takedown defense I've seen, so grappling with the man was nullified, then he just sparked opponents out. As for in the street, the man that doesn't hesitate wins, that split second you put him down before he even knows there's going to be an incident. I never lose, day it happens, is the day I don't look in the mirror
I mean, as a blanket counterpoint to your argument. The techniques are in fact meant to train muscle memory for specific motions/blocks/strikes/etc. At least in my dojo, we also consistently drill strikes, blocks, parries and more. Often sets and techniques incorporate these in some degree. In combination of the two, with frequent sparring, I find myself subconsciously blocking and striking much more efficiently because of the motions being drilled into me. And of course, full contact sparring (not necessarily point based) more and more will absolutely help you flourish in fighting. I totally respect your opinion, but calling something the "CrossFit" of something is insanely disrespectful, and I feel you didn't understand the core of what the techniques are meant to develop.
Exactly. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. Neither of the real situations I used kenpo in were restricted at all to the specific technique. Bits and pieces just kind of came out of different techniques (in an order I had never practiced before) and it worked. Definitely muscle memory.
Definitely I mean the heading of the vid and then hearing him counter the vid title is funny. And like others said, totally by passes the reason for some techniques to be learned as a base. 😂 then I see the opening montages of kickboxing “techniques” , must be cross fit 😂
I started training in United Studios' Kenpo (Karazenpo Go Shinjitsu) when I was 17 and it was often conveyed as patterned, step-by-step techniques in response to punch, grabs, kick attacks, et al. It often left me feeling unconfident if confronted in a real life attack situation. The training didn't begin and end there however. When was proficient enough in blocking and in basic strikes (around Purple or Blue Belt), free-style was encouraged-- freestyle and drilling-- I felt like a lot of that training increases confidence and I definitely found it and that was in the same Kenpo school. I think the way Kenpo is conveyed and passed down is the reason why it gets so much criticism. It's often taught in such a way where the techniques are the apex and the goal, not as training mechanisms. A lot of the criticism here against Kenpo (particularly against American Kenpo) is not wrong, but I feel like there's a larger picture here. Ed Parker himself has often stated that the Techniques are not the end, not the goal, but rather expressions of the principles. In other words, he didn't intend for students to perform Line A, section 1, part 2, then B, part 3 and some kind of robotic choreographed technique in response to a right or left hook or thrusting punch. He DID have them train that way, but then the training would digress into reacting to strikes with freestyle, and then unpredicted strikes in a free-style manner. When taken as a whole Kenpo has great benefits-- it's just not always taught and conveyed the way Mr. Parker originally intended. The reason why you don't see Kenpo in sparring is because it is an empty-hand method, one that is not for the combat ring and therefore not trained for wearing boxing gloves. You can't really do palm-strikes, ridge-hand strikes, hammer fists, knife-hand strikes when wearing whatever OZ. sized gloves. Kenpo is meant for the bare knuckle street confrontation and the pattern of attacks are not conducive for competitive ring combat. Also--- has anyone posed to you, or any "bro" beating the shit out of everything at an MMA school: What would YOU do if somebody bear hugs you, grab your hair, pull you from your wrist, choke you with two-hands.... ? You see what I'm getting at? Everybody's so busy dumping on Kenpo for its "unrealistic" strike defense. At least it offers responses against street attacks. Are you trained to handle 'wild' street situations for when someone chokes from the front or behind, from a grab or a headlock?? My guess is that whatever "Combat" or "MMA" gym out there, there's no handle on real world defense scenarios. And if there is-- - I'm guessing they are pulling from a Traditional system...... So here we are again back at Square One. Half of what Kenpo is training against are grabs-- hair, shirt, shoulder, wrist and grabs from behind or chokes. Much of the criticism against Kenpo is really apples to oranges
The grab defenses are very advanced in BJJ these days. Maybe also in judo. Also if you are a proficient grappler you will most likely laugh your way out of any headlock attempt or what not. But you have a point probably in that boxing won't teach you that. Overall boxing or kickboxing is much more effective than kempo I think but there are freak situations where kempo may be better even though trying to get out of a tricky hold with striking alone may not be the most effective defense.
In Kenpo we understand and know that it is very difficult for us to use a technique that is seen in the videos, in a complete way. Your analysis missed or ignored something very important: Stage 3 of "Formulation". In Kenpo there are three well-defined stages through which the student goes through his learning. Stage 1 or embryonic stage (Ideal Situation, which is what practitioners are seen executing a complete technique with an immobile sparring), is the beginning of the training of a kenpoist. It is similar to the way a child learns to crawl, feel and grasp. The student learns to execute different foot maneuvers; stances, blocks, strikes in conjunction with standing and kicking. Here an ideal situation is simulated, although it will rarely happen like this in the lane, however it gives us an idea of the different reactions of the opponent to our response to an attack. Here the student had a training base and was able to analyze an attack and a response to said situation. Stage 2 or mechanical stage (what if), is where the student learns the basic maneuvers to properly execute a self-defense or form, expanding on the fundamentals of stage one. When he combines the basics and incorporates them into self defense, he learns to move with great efficiency. In addition he learns to create and control distance, moving away or closer to an opponent. Here the student explores the "What - happens if" or "What if", the various dangerous situations and all the possibilities they contain for defense. Stage 3 or the spontaneous stage (Formulation), involves the development of an instinctive way of moving. Here in this stage the movements of the techniques learned and repeated infinitely by the student, are executed spontaneously. The student spontaneously blocks, kicks, punches, and checks in direct response to his opponent's actions. You can also spontaneously adjust or re-align the order of your techniques depending on how the attack progresses, this is a Formulation phase, in which you not only learn to analyze "what and if" but to adapt a technique during the course of an attack. For example, by inserting a technique into another, a new combination of basics is obtained, as a reaction to a certain attack. Here is a real fight in the street, where we must defend ourselves. We know that we will not execute the complete technique that we practice in the Dojo, but our movements are automatic to certain attacks and these movements are born from the 154 techniques that we have practiced for years by heart, it can be the complete technique or just the first blow of one, no it's known. What is correct is that being a flow of movements, we know how to chain and create the next attack, and the next one that will lead us to annul the opponent. In short, the development of Kenpo techniques encompasses years of training and understanding of the embryonic and mechanical phases, which gradually lead the student to the spontaneous phase. During this whole process, he will learn to move properly and manage his environment. He will also handle the concept of viewing a situation from three points of view; his own, that of the opponent and that of a third party outside the event (an observer or observer). To conclude, a good Kenpo student perfects and assimilates self-defense techniques through these phases or stages. Therefore, to analyze Kenpo only based on the observation of the execution of its 154 self-defense techniques, in Stage 1 of the "Ideal Phase", is to fall into ignorance (in the good sense of the word), or the lack of understanding of art. Greetings.
Ed Parker, much like the Gracies with BJJ, developed his style by taking it to the streets and pressure testing it for real. Since his passing I'm sure some Kenpo school have suffered from McDojo infection but calling it the CrossFit of MA is incredible ignorant and disrespectful. I've seen Kenpo work for real, no it didn't take 15 strikes to do it but that's all part of learning flow and coordination. much like in certain Chinese and Filipino arts.
Go to Bob whites kenpo and spar them. These black belts are fast as hell and are masters at distance control, all while using point sparring techniques. If they can keep me away (I'm a boxer), I bet they can do a few of their techniques on you in a fight. They are fucking fast, kenpo looks silly, but if that gym spars alot they can make kenpo work
I was a kenpo karate student during my childhood for seven years, from the ages of five to twelve. What I learned extended far beyond fighting - we were taught about bully psychology, warning signs, how to scare off attackers, how to fall, roll, and retreat, and perhaps most importantly, how to practice self control and discipline. I do agree that it is more important to practice the moves themselves than it is to practice the techniques after reaching a certain threshold to become a better fighter. There were three times that karate techniques distinctly helped me defend myself from school bullies. Karate also helped me protect myself from altercations with men (some of whom were much stronger than me) later in life. Learning about human anatomy and psychology in medical courses further increased my understanding of karate principles. I would highly recommend the study of those topics to folks who are seeking to become more effective martial artists.
i have a best friend who has trained kempo his whole life and one time i saw him get into a real fight and he didnt apply any kempo technic, but his hands speed and power was scary. he knocked the guy out very easily. SO kempo gave him fast hands and power.
Karate is nothing . Most of these “karate fighters “ don’t even apply karate in real fights . They just punch regular or kick regular . Just do regular kickboxing or muey Thai or boxing . That’s all that works
@The Void Hi, while you are a white belt, the others will expect you to still be learning how to gauge your control. I would openly ask your sensei and your partners to practice techniques with you so you can get a sense of the control expectations for when you are sparring. They can vary from partner to partner. Where I studied, we would do group activities, but didn't start sparring with each other until sometime around blue belt or green belt, so don't be afraid to ask your sensei and the other seniors questions. Most of the situations I ended up in involved men trying to subdue me. There was one time when one tried to take me out with a glass bottle. What I learned from sparring and techniques did not translate over in an exact science. What ended up benefitting me was my muscle memory and flow, so I was able to use fear tactics, deliver several self-defense hits in succession, and escape.
I loved this comment. My experience is with the KJBA so it is not represented well on the internet. I would argue this is what helped make me who I am.
_Martial arts in self-defense no matter the style is about instinct reaction, where your body learns to respond to an attackers attack position, Constant repetition of your body, responding to an attackers attacks directions toward you using multiple techniques._ _Your body will autonomously respond to the repetition you’ve been practicing, the only thing you have to try not to do is think_
I'm a tae kwon do and hapkido 4th dan,went to several open tournaments where i sparred kenpo practitioners and all that fancy slapping they do in their forms was never used during the fight,so...why do they even learn those techniques if they don't use them when it matters??
It is amazing that how many times I have heard that a certain art does not work or is not effective art. People love to tell others that your art really won’t work and what they offer is better. That may not be the practice in this video. I have studied a few different martial arts in my days. I have studied over 45 years and I am willing to listen and learn up until the day I cannot train. Kenpo was my main art, then I trained in kung fu, jujitsu, boxing Shotokan karate because I wanted to be well rounded in my abilities to defend myself and my loved ones. I hear what you are saying about some of the kenpo techniques, for me they give me a foundation to choose how I will get out of a situation alive. I have used several kenpo technique’s in a fight and won And then I mixed my techniques from the other styles I learned, to stay alive. From you video I see kick boxing which I studied for a few years What happens when your in a choke hold kenpo taught me 12 different ways to get out of that situation along with the jujitsu I trained in. Every art has value it is up to the teacher and student to see what works best in any given situation. I am glad I trained in kenpo because I have a vast knowledge I can draw from as with the others I trained in. Thank you for making the video I think you should try the art first though before you criticize. Yes I know no one will stand there and allow someone to beat them senseless to finish a technique. That is common sense but truly understand the whys and the what’s Keep training and stay fit, it is getting tough out there
All styles/systems work in a self defense situation because someone in history has used them in real life not just in the dojo or in mma where there's rules but when it was literally life and death.
Mark Grogan exactly mate. Kenpo gives us more options and choices. We don't have to use all those combinations or moves as this guy in the video suggests. I see kenpo as more aggressive and brutal fighting system. Good luck out there sir, oss👊👊🥊🥊🙏🙏🥋🥋
@@kacklerot As i stated, what do you think was used in feudal Japan /ancient china/Korea and medieval Europe as well as every place else? it was the so called traditional martial arts and it was used to KILL not for a trophy belt and title.All you have to do is look at history.
Kenpo is far too dangerous to spar with. We target the parts of the body that would severely injure people. Kenpo is a life-or-death art, not a sport. That's why constant repetition is the only way to master it.
As my avatar suggests, I'm a longtime Kenpo practitioner and instructor. I've also done lots of other martial arts, including your "modern MMA" ones like BJJ, Judo, and Muay Thai. Like others have said, Kenpo techniques are training tools, like forms ("kata"). Each one is like a hypothetical "you could try this move in this situation" or "this could lead into that", similar to drills in sports. A big part of Kenpo is learning how to combine excerpts of different techniques or formulate your own on the fly, because it is expected that real attackers won't perfectly follow the script you learned in class.
@@Timewarpradio Where I trained, Dennis Nackord ran the school and Joe Lewis came by a lot. We did some pretty good sparring, but I moved away more than ten years ago, so I can't say what's going on there now. I think it's dependent on the individual school. You can see a lot of variation between schools even in the same style. When I started doing Muay Thai, my Kenpo skills transferred nicely in terms of things like having good form, keeping your stance while under pressure, distance/angle/timing control. Things like using a low, wide stance didn't transfer, I got leg kicked a lot even though we had leg kicks at Nackord's school. I was able to learn Muay Thai over time just by not refusing to adapt and change. I kept things like the Joe Lewis side kick, and Dennis Nackord's counter punch tactics, but I was able to add things like Muay Thai grabs, kicks, and tactics. It was a good experience, and the two systems worked together well. But I had to be willing to admit freely if the Kenpo approach to a given situation wasn't right and train Muay Thai like a beginner, not like a visiting grandmaster who already knows everything.
I get it, but the thing I found in Kempo is that it doesn't really prepair yourself for a real work attack. So many 'techniques' are complex responses to simple attacks. I learned how to handle situations more from a more fitness orentated Kung Fu class that has regular 'soft' sparring than over a year of Kempo.
This is my first time seeing a video from this channel. I'm an orange belt in Kenpo so this is an interesting take for me. I partially agree and disagree. I always figured the techniques are more like teaching coordination and how to flow, and that's where a Kenpo-ist might get an edge on someone who doesn't do Kenpo. Some of the techniques are responses to things that you won't have happen in a dojo or gym like someone grabbing your shirt, self defense situations. It's also as you said the techniques are broken down into smaller pieces that can be done in a real situation. My instructor will also tell me when a technique is more realistic vs less realistic, and when students of his have actually used it to defend themselves, so there are some cases of techniques being tested IRL. I do agree that some things aren't as necessary, or maybe draw out training, and I'd rather be sparring or hitting the bag. My instructor definitely emphasizes sparring though so that's good!
Appreciate the response! I tried to make clear - I don't dislike Kenpo or think its a waste of time. There's just certain practices that need to be pruned.
@@CombatSelfDefense : I'm from the BKf lineage and I agree with your context. We're constantly reminded by Sijo Steve that we must constantly evaluate self. Always seek to improve and simplify. If the art isn't evolving, then it is not a living art. It is fact in fact, DEAD. For example we don't do leaping crane today, like one may see it done on videos 30+ years ago. Sijo says it this way: 30 years old is 30 years slow. Techniques must be upgraded, although EP stated, you won't necessarily see a whole technique done on someone in an actual fight. That said, I thought about showing examples of how I've been taught to move with the times myself. I'm sure I'd be criticized by my peers perhaps. But personally I've had issues with some instructors teaching. I don't like the training vids I've seen over the last 20 years I've been in Kenpo. What's taught in vanilla lacks what an opponent with intent will actually look like. " Charging Ram" or "Striking the serpents head" should be shown today it's effective against someone who actually knows how to do a single/double leg shoot/takedown. And if an instructor can't show this, there is a problem! So The BKf have eliminated and added things for "actualization." For "fighting with karate." What I respect about this particular Sijo is he does not teach theory! Thus Sijo and his students have now moved into a science called: KenWingTaiBa. So I understand clearly what you're trying to convey.
Oh, I disagree. My instructor in Medford, Oregon once demonstrated a punch defense (Ed Parker style) and he executed nearly 15 coordinated, close combat moves - modified 7 Swords (with full science - gravitational marriage, economy of motion, etc.) in about 1.5 seconds. It was blinding and breathtaking. It was actually beautiful to watch. MMA looks like a bully brawl in the school yard. No comparison. JMHO.
One of the best things about experiencing American Kenpo as taught by a talented instructor, is that you get videos such as this. American Kenpo ruly a diamond in the rough, as opposed to the countless McDojo's and corner shop 'mma' schools. The guy I know that teaches out of a garage, is a beast. The Tracy Kenpo school near our local Brookfield Zoo - an unfortunate slap-master dojo. Importantly, as with any martial art, physical ability, honest personal time spent being physically fit, is a pre-req to do well in any art. Understanding the fluidity of motion that puts a qualified kenpoist above most 1-2 stop hit karate stylists, takes a lot of discipline. For that reason alone, kenpo is just not a great art for a school that needs to make profit. Sadly.
We had 7 Kenpo dojos within a 25 mile radius, each had Kumite on a different night. All students were allowed to go to the other dojo's Kumite night. If you wanted, you could fight every night of the week, with multiple different opponents. I liked that aspect of Kenpo in my area, plus our dojos were one price for the whole family. I don't believe any other martial art in the area had that available. One thing I will say is, when I was just a yellow-belt and at Kumite, my Brown-belt opponent (now 7th degree Black and Master of his own Dojo) showed me that striking is not everything. No matter how hard I tried, he was somewhere else every time I tried to strike him. He was very fast! You have already won, if they can't hit you.
I am a lower rank in kenpo, but have studied several other forms of martial arts. I have used various martial arts in different live situations. It is amazing the ways a person reacts when the adrenaline kicks in. Kenpo is used as an advanced Method to Neutralize the situation. I'm not sure if you were using all of your video clips posted in your presentation as examples of what you would do in a street fight, but I'm sure that a Kenpo person at the same ability level would take out a person using style in a live situation. I would not use your style if someone attacked me on the street. I would use kenpo or krav maga.. I agree you could never use kenpo or crav maga in mma format, because they are to aggressive and can be permanent as far as the damage inflicted. It it is not designed for the ring but for the street. It is very unintelligent for you to say that an opponent will stand there while you do a set of moves on you on the streets. One strike to the groin or a backfist to the head while maintaining one's own coverage would just about do it. Obviously you have not studied the principles and techniques of Kenpo. I would make a list of them, but the list would be too long. Any 1-3 strikes in combination would immobilize or kill someone. Kenpo's intensity and combination of individual principles/ techniques can be raised or lowered to match the level of force and threat. Try it!
Yes, this is why all the kenpo practitioners who jumped into MMA competitions put up such a good fight and weren’t immediately overwhelmed by pressure. Their techniques were just so deadly they didn’t even know how to defend themselves without killing somebody. That makes sense
@@CombatSelfDefenseif you're being sarcastic, shame on you. Otherwise , that is true of a lot of martial arts that the mma/bjj infatuated crowd simply don't understand. If there are martial arts that aim most of their efficient strikes at the throat, eyes, groin area and knees, doesn't it follow that there's a reason it can't be used in sports limited situation? Also, Judo can and has been used in army combatives to kill and maim ends situations super fast, but Judo won't rank highest for "mma" where you can't break someone's neck or break their bones. You are a very, very ignorant man.
I did kempo for around 3 years, achieved 1st degree brown belt. And I appreciate and agree with a lot of what you said. One thing I ran into a lot was kempo/kenpo students and teachers is a strict holding to the idea that we are somehow more skilled than the average mugger which to me is foolish, the first thing you should assume in a self defense situation is that the attacker probably has had prior experience fighting (I'd imagine if you turned to mugging to make ends meet you probably grew up fighting your way to survive in rougher areas). My teacher once explained it to me that the point of kempo and styles like it are meant to focus on what he described as "chambering" and how each movement of your body should be used to set up the following strike or block (or grab). Is American kenpo and effective martial art? I would say a majority of the schools teaching it aren't, but once in a while you do find someone who goes off the kenpo dogma and teaches you something worth while.
I'm inclined to agree with you - it is usually a safer bet to assume your attacker/opponent is more experience/skilled than you are and adjust accordingly. Ultimately, I don't think AK is a bad martial art. Far from it, I think there's a lot of philosophy and principle behind it that make it an excellent way to grow as a martial artist. I do think the way the style tends to practice its techniques, however, needs to be changed.
I took kenpo for 4.5 years, achieved blue belt. Totally agree with you about assuming the average attacker/person has had prior experience fighting. My instructor always preached this too - he said always assume a stranger has at least a green belt (intermediate) experience in combat.
@@mitsk2002 I suppose it's a good thing to assume. You'd be wrong, though. I've always been shocked at the amount of 'tough guys' that are unable to fight.
Kenpo is not just a martial art filled with techniques and random movements; it is a complex system that teaches essential principles to its practitioners. These principles are not just about reacting to an opponent's attack with a specific technique but are designed to instill a deeper understanding of the art of self-defense. I take Tracey Kenpo one on one with Instructor Ben Pratt and we have two programs One where we prefect Kenpo technique's and the other where we train fight principles and they are two different ends of the Art. Can I pull off a Kenpo technique on the street? Probably most of it especially if I go first.. Can I use Kenpo in a street fight? Yes but Fighting Kenpo not strictly defensive Kenpo. Tracey Hired Joe Lewis early on to put us on top in a ring and since then we have had some pretty smart minds tweak it! One of the key figures in the development of these principles is Joe Lewis, a renowned martial artist who brought a unique perspective to the world of Kenpo. Backed by the legendary Bruce Lee, Lewis introduced the 25 fight principles that have become a cornerstone of modern Kenpo training. 1. Setups: Setting up an opponent for a strike or a takedown is crucial in Kenpo. By creating opportunities through feints and subtle movements, a practitioner can gain the upper hand in a confrontation. 2. Positioning: Proper positioning is essential in Kenpo to maximize the effectiveness of techniques and movements. Being in the right place at the right time can make all the difference in a fight. 3. Independent Movement: Each part of the body should move independently in Kenpo, allowing for fluid and dynamic attacks and defenses. 4. Initial Speed: The ability to initiate an attack with speed and precision is a key aspect of Kenpo training. 5. Critical Distance Line: Understanding the optimal distance to engage with an opponent is crucial in Kenpo. Maintaining the right distance can dictate the outcome of a confrontation. 6. Line of Attack: Knowing how to target vulnerable spots on an opponent's body is essential in Kenpo. Striking along the correct line of attack can increase the effectiveness of a technique. 7. Bridging the Gap: Closing the distance between yourself and an opponent while minimizing the risk of counterattacks is a fundamental skill in Kenpo. 8. Five Primary Techniques: These fundamental techniques are the building blocks of Kenpo training, teaching practitioners the basic movements and strategies of the art. 9. Leading Side Versus Rear Side: Understanding the advantages and disadvantages of leading with different sides of the body is crucial in Kenpo. 10. Economy of Motion: Avoiding unnecessary movements and conserving energy is a key principle in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to execute techniques with maximum efficiency. 11. Relaxation Versus Tension: Finding the balance between being relaxed and being tense is essential in executing techniques effectively in Kenpo. 12. Mobility Versus Immobility: Knowing when to move and when to stand your ground is a crucial aspect of Kenpo self-defense. 13. Extension, Hyper-Extension, Double Hyper-Extension: The ability to extend strikes to their fullest potential can make a significant impact in a fight. 14. Leading Centers: Understanding how to control an opponent's center of gravity is a key skill in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to manipulate their opponent's movements. 15. Unpredictability Versus Classical Form: Incorporating unpredictability into techniques can catch opponents off guard, increasing the chances of a successful attack. 16. Straight Line Versus Curved Line: Knowing when to attack in a straight line or along a curved trajectory can enhance the effectiveness of techniques in Kenpo. 17. Defensive Choices: Having a range of defensive options at your disposal is essential in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to respond effectively to various attacks. 18. Initial Speed Versus Combinations: Knowing when to strike with speed and when to use combinations of techniques can keep opponents on their toes in a fight. 19. Faking: Using feints and deceptive movements to mislead opponents is a valuable skill in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to create openings for attacks. 20. Constant Forward Pressure: Maintaining pressure on an opponent can restrict their movements and force them into defensive positions in Kenpo. 21. Time Commitment Theory: Understanding the timing of attacks and defenses is crucial in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to capitalize on openings and weaknesses in an opponent's defenses. 22. Defensive Movement Patterns: Knowing how to move defensively while maintaining offensive capabilities is a key aspect of Kenpo training. 23. Angle of Attack Versus Technique Variation: Changing the angle of attack and varying techniques can confuse opponents and increase the chances of successful strikes in Kenpo. 24. Half Commitment, Full Commitment, Extension Commitment: Knowing how much commitment to put into strikes and techniques is essential in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to adapt to different situations in a fight. 25. Theory of Broken Rhythm: Disrupting an opponent's rhythm and timing can create opportunities for successful attacks in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to control the flow of a fight. Incorporating these principles into Kenpo training can elevate the practice from a series of techniques to a comprehensive system of self-defense and combat strategy. By understanding and implementing these principles, practitioners can develop a deeper understanding of the art of Kenpo and enhance their skills as martial artists. As Joe Lewis and Bruce Lee have shown, the 25 fight principles provide a solid foundation for advanced training in Kenpo, helping practitioners to reach new levels of mastery in the martial art.
@@aaronpaulo7533 An ad hominem fallacy is when someone argues by attacking the person who made a point, instead of addressing the point itself. Imagine that two kids are talking, and one says, “Your idea won’t work because you’re always lying.” They’re not talking about the idea; they’re just calling the other kid a liar. That’s ad hominem. Another way to think about it is like this: it’s when someone tries to win an argument by saying mean or irrelevant things about the person they’re arguing with, not by discussing the actual topic...
@@johnlewis4856 no I addressed the point very clearly. Kenpo guys spend to much time talking about useless theories rather than actually training that’s why so many are out of shape
Well said. I have to agree with a lot of your video. I spend many years in Shaolin Kempo and I have to say there was a big focus on punch techniques. Everyday we went over these techniques knowing that they would not work on the street. A couple years ago I found John Hackleman, The Pit Hawaiian Kempo and I have to say his system of Kempo is the best Kempo system I have ever seen. His system is very practical and he doesn't waist your time with silly punch techniques. He teaches you how to fight and defend yourself with very short practical techniques that work.
I’m an ex boxer and coach also a kempo practitioner of many years so allow me to say that kempo or kenpo either and boxing techniques have worked very well for me working as a security specialist on the streets as an effective street self defense period!!!!! I owe my very life to kempo and my k9
The statements in your video are valid. I am a 4th Degree Black Belt in Kenpo with 49 years of daily training. The version of Kenpo I practice is from the James Mitose lineage through Adriano Emperado, Marino Tiwanak, Florentino Pancipanci and John Redmon. Our sequences are far less complex than those that Ed Parker created. I think a student could become overwhelmed and confused in a self defense situation if their mind is glutted with dozens of sequences. We were taught to practice formal sequences, but to also form a few of our own individual self defense techniques from those sequences and practice those until they become automatic reactions. The self defense techniques should be very simple and straight-forward because an attacker is not going to stand still for the defender to run through his sequence. They will be in constant, unpredictable motion. Our formal sequences are mostly to practice the flow of techniques, power, breathing, tempo and balance.
@@bqvideo I spoke with him, recently. He confirmed that he knows you as well, and that you two trained together. I've known him for some years, and even got the chance to meet Master John Redman, as I once traveled with him to Pensacola. But we lived in different states, which didn't give me a real chance to train in Kenpo. I did spend some time in American Kenpo, but it didn't seem to be what I wanted. So I did Shorin Ryu for a while. But now that Master Warren has settled down in Pensacola, and has opened a school, I may give it another shot. Hope I'm not too old to learn it now.
@@bqvideo thank you for talking with me. And also, thank you for the videos that you’ve posted on here. I’ve often wondered if I’d ever see someone perform Kenpo in it’s original form on TH-cam. I was excited to watch you. As I said before, I’ve never trained in it, but I immediately recognized your movement; because I’ve watched Master Warren several times before.
Real Kenpo is dirty and brutal like how it was created in Hawaii. I hate the Kenpo studios who water down the art and make it more appealing to the general public. I understand people need to make money but Kenpo is about survival, not going to tournaments where there are rules.
I trained kenpo during my teenage years and earned a black belt in the system, I can 100% confirm what you expressed in the video. The kenpo techinques are completely unrealistic and don´t teach you actual fighting, I ended up switching to BJJ which I have been training for about 5 years (BJJ blue belt currently), even as a 2 stripe white belt I had already learned much more about actual fighting than in my years in kenpo.
I've done Security for many years. My art is Kajukenbo. I've seen kenpo guys that were good and bad in various situations. At the end of the day it's not about the art at all, the only way to learn how to fight is by fighting.
And anyone whose studied a day in thier lives know that "techniques" are to train muscle mem. And that an entire technique was never intended to be used start to finish
First note: there is different types of kenpo . Kenpo karate is one of the most effective material arts because of its aggressiveness IN fighting, not all kenpo but at least the kenpo karate I do, is named on of the most agressive. “Be there first and last to move” you go into the fight and you will be the orn who has the last move (winning obviously) I’m a top student and a school champion for a reason, I’ve gone against many different dojo’s and different types of material art. I’ve never lost to any different material arts except another kenpo student. I’m not going to be specific because I don’t want a whole arguement in my comments. But most really suck now days which make people underestimate material arts. Yes of course our master has us doing the same thing over n over to get better at it, why? Because disciple is a huge part with it, it’s not the biggest, the biggest is to harm your enemy and we always do, but disciple is needed. I’ve used it against many random kids, 3 At once even, 2 grown men, those in real life situations and ofc many tournament matches. Don’t underestimate it if you don’t know it well.
If you have true criticism of Kenpo (Chinese), look to Chuck Lidell, but if you look at American kenpo (all your videos are of Jeff Speakman) look to the Parseghian brothers, Robert Sotomayor, or Dan Pribble. All of them are amazing example of Kenpo karate.
10 years learning Kenpo with a 3rd degree black belt. One aspect of the martial art that doesn't get the respect it deserves is the philosophical aspect. I was taught to avoid conflict whenever possible. I got into 7 conflicts on the street that escalated into a fist fight. Each time, I ran away as fast as I could. I always got away because I did sprints almost every day. I never got to use my Kenpo, but I like to think that it would have come in handy if I wasn't able to run away.
That’s nothing unique to Kenpo….any martial art with a half competent teacher will tell you to do that because it’s not philosophical it’s just basic common sense
This comment is hilarious. The logical conclusion is your time was better spent in the gym and on the track, getting fitter and faster, than in a dojo!
I have to say I’m a American Kenpo practitioner myself , I understand what Mr . Dan is saying and also agree with you with most of the things you’ve said in this video. I have to what bothers me the most about kenpo is that we the basics to teach students how to use them in a way you see how boxers or mma guys train. That’s something that even my own kenpo people don’t realize. We have what it’s called freestyle techniques and it’s a shame that kenpo doesn’t utilize a lot of Mr. Parker had taught us . Parker expressed the in kenpo we have basics, self defense techniques and freestyle sparring or or fighting simulations, like I’ve seen in a Gracie jujitsu school that was once in for a short time. I believe is more about the practitioner, then the art
Well I suggest that our techniques are not meant to be used exactly as taught but they are designed to give us options to adjust if in a fight. Yes many of our techniques are complicated and require repetitious practice to master. But the idea is to practice over and over to condition a reflex reaction for defense or attack from various angles and situations.
@Jake Collins No excuses. If you read my comment you will see I am not suggesting any dogmatic idea but instead emphasizing techniques as a way to practice movements which may come in handy. We can't say definitively that techniques don't work.
I think Ron Van Clief said it better, martial arts suppose to free yourself, using your imagination to expand your learning. Martial art techniques work in theory, but very little in practice. When Rorion Gracie found the UFC in 1993, it was to test Gracie Jiu Jitsu at a functional level (expand the Gracie Challenge against more skilled fighters). The Gracie Challenge showed a lot of Black belts their limitations because they were stuck in a system, not freeing themselves to cross train and relearning (example: a martial art instructor wrote an article about their experience after participating in the Gracie Challenge back in the early 90's). Fred Ettish (who participated in UFC 2) was actually in a depression after finding out how limited his martial art was in a cage going against Johnny Rhodes that had a Karate background also and was an amateur boxer. Keith Hackney was a Kenpo representative in the Early UFC, but had an amateur boxing background, trained in wrestling, Tang Soo Do, and Taekwondo. He didn't limit himself to one style. I seen Kenpo instructor Larry Tatum martial art demos which techniques work in theory, but not in functional fighting. A lot of Dunning Kruger Effect (Martial Art McDojos) in the world of martial arts in terms of sticking to one system, and not freeing yourself to learning other systems.
I just watched a video of Elvis doing a kenpo demonstration. Some one said this is proof Elvis was a black belt. Some one else said the Elvis demonstration was an embarrassment. I landed on this video to learn more about kenpo. After watching this video, I am convinced kenpo is an ineffective martial art form. This video was well done and explained "WHY" kenpo is "NOT" effective for self-defense. Thanks and looking forward to watching your other videos. Cheers!
He doesn't understand kenpo he thinks The techniques don't work shows you have no understanding of martial arts, Marcia arts techniques only work if you actually know how to do them properly, and executive and properly, And actually know how to execute them properly but also know how to fight. An only way to deal to deal all this is to actually practice them. There is No such thing a martial of a martial art that doesn't work there's no such thing there's only, Such thing as marsh artist who don't know how to make them work.... Fact he thinks they don't work shows his lack of ability to make them work Fact he thinks they don't work shows his lack of ability to make them work!
I’m a second degree black in kenpo. I agree with this video to a certain point. The technique s aren’t really useless. I actually had to use it one of my techniques in real life experience. It is called scimitar . Using the higher advanced techniques too be honest it’s not really going happen. For me kenpo is a good foundation into martial arts I my opinion. I apply kenpo and the lessons I’ve learned from friends who study boxing ,kickboxing, judo, MMA, and Taekwondo. Sparring with and doing actually full contact fights with them to learn how to apply everything in a real world situation against experience fighter. Going against a real fighter chances everything and makes you adopt immediately. The chances you being attacked by experience fighter is low. Most of the time it will be people that aren’t fighters attacking you. Muggers, drunks, people who think talk a lot but can’t back it up, idiots doing the knock out game ...etc Well at least here in south Florida. But to say I’m going to end in fight with Conor McGregor , Jon Jones, Mike Tyson that’s not going to happen.
That Absolute nonsense has saved my ass because I know what really works and what does not work in a real life violent altercation. Wrestling on the ground ain't one of them when you're in it 6 deep the rules go out the window. Better to be Judged by twelve than to be carried by six
Reading the comments, a lot of Kempo BBs have been in a lot of street fights and used their kempo. As a BJJ BB, I don’t personally know any BJJ BBs that have ever used BJJ In the Streets as a black belt. I’ve seen video on TH-cam, but I don’t personally know those guys.
Fact is with Kenpo they say their techniques teach you how to deal with every attack but they don’t not at all….there’s so many vital moves they don’t teach you how to defend against. Leg kicks very basic no defence for them and it’s not even hard a basic Muay Thai check, elbows again no defence from that close range same with knees those are very basic attacks any thug can do yet Kenpo this big bad ultimate self defence art has nothing to stop them. Another one head butts or clinch defence. Not silly bear hugs but the proper Muay Thai clinch again no defence and then of course there’s the whole ground game so yeah for these reasons a basic mma fighter will destroy most Kenpo guys because a lot of their best stuff Kenpo can’t defend against
I used to destroy Taekwondo guys in competition all the time, techniques against kicks are taught since day 1 in Kempo, it was my absolute bread and butter. Clinch defence again is taught at white belt, headbutt defence is taught, elbow defence oddly isn't taught. MMA wasn't a thing when I did Kempo but I fought against many different styles and my last fights was against a BJJ a few years in a street fight which I won using Kempo even though I haven't practices in a very long time. Kempo may be out of date but I have used it on the streets and in competition.
There is a million different styles of Kenpo. Some are just hand techniques. Some are very legitimate kickboxing styles. You need to train in everything to get a good understanding of everything, really
I think that the solution to the problems you mentioned is well directed sparring sessions, Mr. Raney had us do a lot of sparring, and it helped me (even though I was trying not to notice it ) to see how effective Kenpo Karate can be in a real fight.
I did practice Kenpo for 15 years and I also fought full contact fighting and the kenpo technique never came into play so basic fight tactics like what you do is what works
There are many great lessons to be learned with kenpo..flow, chambering your blocks/hits...move to strike ratios..endless variations...ect...but I added Wetzel silat training and some reality training and found that my Parker kenpo changed for the better...kenpos stances are too wide and the footwork is to clunky and lessen the techniques..i use kenpo hands with compressed silat/ Kung fu footwork for the springy leg energy and leg sectoring..which then u would kinda be looking at kuntao I guess...I think it's all about blending...being about to show different aspects...for me it's kenpo hands, Kung fu striking, aikido joint manipulation, silat footwork and takedown, sweeps, selective kicking, close quarter knees and elbow technique...ect....not staying so loyal to one system to where your locked in(a lot of kenpo kinda promotes that tbh)..ultimately I think kenpo needs to be modernized and trimmed up to be a leaner and meaner system. But really, cross training in the arts is where it's at..imo
Blocks, you learn that in boxing, footwork too, add in wrestling and submission and well, my moneys on that guy over any kenpo master. There is a reason kenpo is not popular in the ufc
I'm a 2nd Dan in Kenpo, I went a much different way after that . There are certain things I still LOVE about Kenpo and even use . My take is first, it's not so much that it's to use against untrained people as it is to be used within a certain window of time. BEFORE things turn into a squared off fight . You go from 0 to 100 and and apply constant pressure so the attacker never gets a chance to recover . I think thats a solid concept for any style. Second , I find it a fascinating way to pass on an art , by teaching formalized techniques . As an amateur historian I would love to know where some of them really come from, and stuff like that . I look at Kenpo like this now: It's a library full of short stories that I can pull off a shelf , have a read , and see if theres a concept or moral there that I can apply to my everyday practice. But thats because of all that I learned AFTER I took Kenpo . I'm not bound to the movements at all now because I'm not seeking rank. All I care about is the reaction they can cause against my opponent . It would be fun to take 5 different martial artists and teach them the same technique then have them break it down it do it their own way . My biggest complaint besides a lot of the independent arm movements and overly complicated footwork was the lack of repetitive drills like you see in many other arts . For me those are what help me actually apply what I do in free form . But then I've only trained in one Kenpo style at 1 school so I'm far from an expert on how it's done elsewhere.
I've done Kenpo for a number of years and I think it's a good style for teaching basic fundamentals such as fluidity and controlling an opponents movements. That said if I were to be in a fight I'd fall back on a style such as Boxing for it's relative simplicity. But that's just me.
Shotokan and Kyokushin. These two styles of karate have dominated UFC. They are quite capable of beating boxing. Kickboxers are quite capable of kicking boxers
Ed Parker student Steve Golden, one of the “kempo defectors” who left him for Bruce Lee, made a comparison of the arts I’m probably mangling, lol, but made sense to me. He said where JKD was about figuring out simple answers to whatever problems presented themselves in a combat situation, kenpo was about memorizing a detailed answer to every possible combat problem. He was very diplomatic by not saying one way was better than another, just different, but I know which one I’D pick, lol.
Question: Kenpo vs Kenpo... who would win? Answer: None. Both are waiting for the other to start so they can perform five swords, or raining claw, or shielding hammer...
Kenpo techniques are not Kenpo, they are examples of it, and not always the best examples. Good instructors know this, but there are LOTS that say “the techniques work as taught”.
As a student of Kenpo on and off for almost 30 years I can understand this point of view. I have always looked at techniques at lower belt levels as actual self-defense technique someone grabs your shoulders from behind you instinctively move a certain way. I also think it teaches you body mechanics how body parts move or doesn't move and how to move somebody. I work in a job where you have to put hands on people, some of the body mechanics I've learned in Kenpo work. Now I have to admit I have never performed Dance of Death out in the field, but basic arm bars and shoulder locks, yes. My problem came when I got up past green belt, I felt like some of the techniques were getting flashier for the sake of being flashy. Twist stances = Nope. Middle knuckle punches, why not just punch. Or some crazy reverse crescent kick to the kidney when a much simpler and more effective kick to opponents knee would suffice, it just doesn't look as cool. I have also taught people self defense basic strikes and was blown away on how many grown adults could not make a proper fist and throw punch using their body. SO any martial art that gets you moving and learning the basics is great. IF a technique gets you moving I think your ahead of the guy who just freezes up.
That’s always been my point about kenpo. There are certainly universal movements that work, regardless of what style you learn them in (arm bars, shoulder locks) That being said, there are GOOD ways to practice/learn those movements, and there are BAD ways. Simple, direct patterns and drills will always be preferable to techniques that aren’t based on realistic attacks or reactions. There are also fantasy based movements that only work in a training setting. Focusing on middle knuckle punching instead of the whole fist. Sure, you can hurt someone with the middle knuckle but…is it any better than a regular fist? Maybe, maybe not. Is it a more natural shape to make with your hand? No. So why not stick with the more natural, higher result yielding practice method? I don’t hate kenpo, I just think the higher level techniques are based on looking cool rather than practical application.
@@CombatSelfDefense 100% agree. I think a middle knuckle punch can result in breaking your middle finger, a fist is more natural and safer. My other problem with a lot of traditional martial arts is they lost their cardo training, which years ago wasn't the case. So many schools today are about teaching an art and lost the "workouts" associated with it. That is a really bad practice because sometimes who ever outlast ..wins. I have seen more more exceptions in schools of boxing and Muay Thai, some Judo and Jujitsu schools where there are pretty intense workouts.
The middle knuckles and various odd striking are part of what is called category completion which means you will probably use straight punch or practical weapon but it was inserted to understand motion by doing strike up down backwards forward reversed or configuration etc hence complete category Most students in American kenpo seem to miss of lack understanding and definitely wont get it by just observing it. You learned Q in alphabet though it not used in mass vocabulary like vowels and consonants it still part of the basics to create responses communication in vocabulary just as in music you may never use certain note with accidentals(flats/sharps) but those are to create proper steps in construction of song Back to American kenpo specifically ( not some offshoot in name only) parker purposely adds mistakes for student to understand value of strike movement etc wouldn’t work the forms have plenty done wrong to question breaking rules principles of motion which what AK is based
I think you have a couple options. 1. You would break down the longer techniques into shorter, more likely responses (which could result in hundreds of various self defense techniques) Or 2. You reduce the techniques to 1-3 movements per technique, and they would more closely resemble Motobu Choki’s 12 Karate Drills OR 3. You allow the “attacker” to throw more than one punch at a time. Now however we’re getting into two/three step sparring, which has its own host of problems.
@@CombatSelfDefense I think all of these are good ideas. There's a problem with making the attacker throw only one attack. It doesn't match real life at all. I think students when learning something have to take it slow. So maybe, as you said, the sequences should be broken down. Attackers could attack with something like touch boxing. Slow touches at first, maybe students would work their defences first... Then they might pick ONE technique from the chain. Maybe the attacks should be prearranged till the student gets a feel for the technique...like in wrestling drills... Practice an individual technique slowly against a known attack ...drill it till you understand it intellectually and also physically. Then try applying it in a more free form situation..a la boxing or wrestling. I think that'd be the ticket..teaching martial arts...in a similar fashion to the way they do boxing, wrestling or other combat sports.
@@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729 In the ideal phase of Kenpo the object is to limit the opponent to one attack and be out of the situation in a matter of seconds. Who really wants to trade with someone? I do agree that watching someone stand there and receive multiple strikes and not do anything looks ridiculous. Unfortunately it's a bad demonstration by the attacker. The attacker is supposed to be manipulated into different positions caused by pain compliance from each of the different Kenpo strikes in response to the initial attack. We used to call people just standing there "stone statues".
Kenpo techniques, practiced over and over, teach an alphabet of motion. In a defensive situation, strikes and blocks are deployed on an instinctual level which may or may not resemble any of the techniques practiced. These techniques, practiced over the years will “pattern” your nervous system and integrate themselves within all of your movements and psyche. Yes, Kenpo works.
@@CombatSelfDefense If I were in the US I would like to fight you. I am tired of people thinking that only Boxing (which I love) ,kick boxing and juijitsu are useful. These people who critize do not even have good technique and do not know how to move.
And awaaayy we go 1. Techniques - any sequential flow, outside of the three phases, that has a Response and Intent that is greater than the Catalyst and Intent. Ri>Ci Response/intent ~ the defender Catalyst/intent ~ the attacker A Catalyst is ant of the two types of attacks in the Webb of Knowledge There are the NOW catalysts (attacks) There are the When?Then catalysts (attacks) NOW catalysts are seen in the family related catalysts of the Webb of Knowledge and are; Punches, Kicks, Club, Knife, Gun types of attacks. When?Then catalysts are chokes, hugs, holds, grabs. locks and so on. The goal of kenpo is and always has been, whether the person teaching it for however long is, make the bad man stop trying to hurt you. The Three Phases of technique (I call them Patterns) have been misinterpreted for decades.. The system that is the 154 Self Defense Patterns is a metaphor of a chain of Islands that are linked from Delayed Sword to Twisted Rod. I learned them in the 80's as a unlinked chain of Islands and later found put what a mistake it is to just teach the moves to advance in rank. 2. Sparring - the snippets of actions that are tested against an opponent that does not want to be hit or kicked. Kenpo has the Neutral Bow stance, very similar to many MA stances and our hows and whys cover the three dimensions as well as the dimension of time. SO, when two fighters face each other, their arms are placed in various heights and depths, their stances have evenly distributed weight on both feet, their focus is back dot on a white field, and, their goal is to put weapons to targets as quickly as possible and avoid the same being done to them Once the fighter has stepped in to their fighting stance they have already (before the fight starts) com-oeted the Initial Sni[ppet of Action from a whole lot of kenpo techniques. Now that that is out of the way it becomes a dance to see who can hit or kick first with Accuracy, Speed and Power, in control of the weapons and their various methods, to targets that are available. 3. Testing the Snippets of Actions from Patterns when sparring is the test that begins early on. After achieving a yellow belt, the kenpo student should be able to use snippets of actions from at least five of the ten they learned to get their yellow belt. However, in commercial kenpo that is not the case and kick boxing methods are prevalent. Nothing wrong about that, but, their are boxing influences on kenpo that are not seen until someone points them out. The SD Pattern says to "Step bak naturally to a right neutral bow", but the manual doesn't say how to step back, it talks pnly about the Established Square of Action that the pattern works in. Most of the pattens stay within that forst square of action to work through each Snippet of Action. That is why the attacker, will start their attack from the Within Contact Range and their catalyst is responded to in the ideal. Well now, doesn't that make the catalyst an Ideal Phase Catalyst? Yes, yes it does. So, where does the pattern begin? Especially when it comes in the obscure zone (behind you), That's right! a NOW catalyst knocks you down and you get stomped. Does sparring cover that? Ask the guys who work the ground, they have answers that I don't. SO I will teach students how to roll forward and come out on their feet. Do the patterns work in less than ideal circumstances, you know, flat ground, no obstacles, you see it coming and you know what method the kick or strike or grab or whatever is being used. Training this way ensures that the lesson within the patterns are ingrained to the point where the lessons are what is being expressed when sparring. "Fighting stances, ready, FIGHT!" Ahah, the sound of foam dipped protective gear sliding across a gym floor. Step drags, and drag steps and pivoting on the ball pf the foot as the other leg kicks. Bobbing, weaving and checking off your targets as you look for open targets on the opponent. Controlling the gap by stringing together separate methods of footwork that open, maintain or close the gap. Differentiating, in real time, the methods pf thrusting, hammering, whipping, snapping, round housing, hooking the possible combinations of strikes and kicks. In real time, did I mention that? By the way, Sparring and Patterns are exactly the same, in Kenpo and in everything else that came before Ed Parker and now after Ed Parker. Dan doesn't have anymore answers than anyone else, but, he has a lot of views and that is how false histories continue to spread. It's been three decades now and You Tube hasn't exposed this fact. And I quote, "Time will either promote you or expose you". Take Dan's words to heart, he hasn't stuck with any kenpo long enough to have anything but, an informed opinion about systems and curriculums, that look at the patterns as unrelated (unlinked) Islands of motion. Patterns are not blueprints to be followed from foundation to finished product, they are blueprints of how and why the system is a Formulation from beginning to end. Not everyone is going to make it to the end, but, sticking with it until the end of purple belt (24 patterns per belt) will expose them to all of the sophisticated motions (not the choreographies) that EPAK has to teach. Once I hit my fighting stance while sparring I have effectively moved through the Initial Snippet of Action and am poised to kick and strike, move and avoid and use the lessons within the patterns. Go means go! Clark
@@coltonwilie2761 hi, did you read that? Probably not. But at least we know you can read, and type, so, there's hope I guess. Yep, me Clark. Content maker here on YT. Can you say the same?
The opening of this alone shows a complete ignorance of Kenpo. Frank Trejo had real world experience as well as an extensive ring resume. I have been in several real world situations as part of my on and off line of work. It works, but just like all other arts, including the flavor of the month everyone says is invincible, there are good and bad schools. Kenpo is taught like a language. If you don't train it that way you're no better than a 9 yo blah blah blah black belt. At least Master Ken is funny.
I am so tired of immature martial artist comparing arts and saying one is better than the other. I am a Shodan in Shorinji Kempo and have defended myself both as a corrections officer (10 years) and hospital security guard Present). Kenpo was made for the common man to defend himself. I have seen Gracie jujutsu people get wiped by thugs.l think as always an arts effectiveness depends on circumstances, personnel and the element of surprise. So you kenpoka karateka, judo and wrestlers continue to practice the art you love. Just practice it in Ernest. It will work. Don’t box a boxer if you do not know boxing. Also, if so called practical arts are so good, why has there been a huge emergence of traditional schools? I am proud of my kempo black belt.
Even if the full technique worked... If someone throws a single punch and you block, punch, kick, headbutt, do a wristlock, throw, choke them out and procede to stomp on them thats a bit much
I hold the rank of 5th Dan in Kenpo. I agree with what you are saying, there are other more realistic ways of training. What I teach is Kickboxing and practical self-defense, and I added a belt ranking system: White, Yellow, Green, Brown, Black. I call it Freestyle Kickboxing.
And how do you train a weenie like me who is 5'5" and built like a frail woman? I have a 3rd degree brown belt in Kenpo and its great for handing it to a mugger to choke me with (no hand print bruises no evidence for a case...just like in prison). I never survived any fight (lots & lots & lots of street fights) using Kenpo or kickboxing. It was more Aikijutsu than anything. Remember, little skinny weak guys like me can't hammer like you born big tough guys. Our sexy little wrists that turn thugs on will break when we punch if we rely on American self defense schools practical or not. Backs against the wall, historically accurate fighting systems are the only answer...unless you're a big guy!
Kenpo, TKD, boxing, bjj as well as Japanese jujitsu , Judo, Aikido. It all works. How you practice is the question. You can water down any art. And you can make any art street efficient if you train it that way.
He's thinking too hard about this. I'm a black belt in Kenpo and the technique is meant to be an exercise, not meant for a street fight. It's meant to give you an idea of what you can/should do if you're in a scenario.
In general, kajukenbo is a lot less loosely organized. There’s no real set curriculum every single school has to follow. The most popular version of Kajukenbo looks pretty similar to American kenpo, but there’s no phases, there’s no real named techniques, but we do have similar kata and the techniques are usually just as long
@@CombatSelfDefense How do you think Kajukenbo delivers the techniques better than American kenpo, to not fall in the trap of being the crossfit of martial arts? Everything you said in the video definitely hit home for me. I trained kenpo for 4 years and any time I tried to pressure test it I couldn't get it to work. It was like brain overload trying to process hundreds of techniques to figure out how to react, especially when the attack wasn't your typical cooperative step through punch. I've always wondered if there was a better delivery system to make kenpo work.
@@PremiumTrader I don’t think kajukenbo does it any better. I consider Kaju an offshoot of kenpo and any school that practices 4-10 responses to one strike and calls it self defense techniques is out of touch and needs to revamp their teaching methods. Note I don’t think there’s anything wrong with any given style, just its training methods
I coached boxing in the Navy and the way we taught the basic skills was much as this video recommended. We went over basic skills/drills, i.e., parrying a punch, to begin learning the basics...then quickly moved to practicing during actual live sparring. The emphasis was always on applying the skill in an actual competitive situation. In my opinion, that's by far, the best way to really grasp how to perform the skill in conjunction with all the other elements of the sport.
Man I really appreciate the discussion and points you covered so clearly in this vid. Thank you so much for sharing such a valuable perspective on this branch of martial arts. I trained as a kenpo martial artist for over 4 years and loved my instructor. These points all ring true to a degree and are fascinating to ponder.
The entire purpose of Kenpo‘s techniques are to teach a set of principles. Controlling the distance, angle, spatial relation are some of the first concepts. Additionally, the techniques are designed to instill one’s coordination enough to defend and counter attack, thereby seizing control of the situation as it unfolds. Every technique has an entry, a follow up, and finishing moves or takedowns in some cases and every Kenpo student understands that the technique is designed to teach how to flow through these different phases of a self-defense situation smoothly without stopping, without hesitation and without allowing the opponent to regain the advantage. Furthermore, the techniques do teach multiple defenses of the same attack but since it is never taught that one must use a technique as it is taught but simply understand the principles that it teaches as well as build the coordination of flowing from one move to the other next without pause or hesitation therefore increasing speed, we are able to gain and retain the advantage open to the point of takedown but that the way we practice it doesn’t necessarily mean any real world situation will unfold exactly as any technique is taught. One may do the entry from one technique but because of the attacker reacting to particular strikes or counter strikes differently, skills learned across an entire scope of techniques simply allow one to flow with what is happening in the moment. The way we get around Hicks Law, which is the principle where in too many choices creates inaction is that the techniques are drilled to the point of being almost subconscious reactions infused with muscle memory. When you take in to consideration that Kenpo has plenty of various drills used to build spontaneity and that we also practice grafting where in you use completely spontaneous reactions working from the principles taught from techniques without actually using a full technique in its ideal phase, you begin to produce a martial artist that can operate benefiting from all the principles and concepts Kenpo has the offer without the restrictions of trying to move within established routines. Essentially, our techniques, sets and forms are a vehicle or the essence of the art is learned and practiced to get the student to a destination but Kenpo in its purest form is an always will be an instantaneous and spontaneous reaction to a threat we’re in the students movements and counters are instinctive yet appropriate for the unique threat they are being presented with at the time they’re attacked. By comparison there are martial arts out there that expect their self defense techniques, which may be less complex than ours, be used as is from start to finish. That is not the purpose of our techniques. Our techniques are a teaching tool and the only Kenpo artists that truly need to memorize all of them are the ones who want to turn around and teach the art as they were taught. To be a skilled practitioner, one only memorize the techniques they’re going to be tested on and then typically forgets the specifics of the technique until it comes around again but learns everything it has to offer and principles and concepts. Another way at looking at the way I Kenpo technique unfolds is that many of the more advanced principles and concepts are the way that these techniques are designed to control an opponent. It’s not just a barrage of speed striking but each and every target and follow up target have a degree of specificity as that each target and strike creates a reaction in the opponent which feeds the next action of the Kenpo artist. Many have described Kenpo as controlling the opponent in away somewhere that jujitsu does but utilizing strikes instead of grappling.
To follow onto my previous comment, many people think the best way to pressure test hey systems self defense techniques is in the ring. This is simply not true. If a system has self-defense techniques that involve taking joint locks beyond appoint of pain compliance and are intentionally destroying the wrist, elbow, shoulder or have strikes designed to break or hyperextended knee backwards, claw and I gouge, then you’re dealing with an art that has techniques that cannot be pressure tested in the ring and would only realistically be able to be pressure tested in real combat as it applies to the battlefield or real world self-defense situation. Kenpo has been proven on the battlefield and in real self-defense situations. There are plenty of people out there that have utilized it in real world situations, myself being among them because I entered the army as a prior service Marine ended up serving with 10th SFGA, Later on with 19th SFGA and have pressure tested the principles and concepts of kenpo in real world combat scenarios and have found these principles and concepts to not only be valid and real but highly functional. And, what was pressure tested was the pure essence of Kenpo itself which is a tailored spontaneous immediate reaction to a threat that does not follow the established routine of any one specific self-defense technique because as I said in the main post or comment, the techniques are vehicle to teach certain principles and concepts as well as build strength, endurance and coordination, teach continuous flow while pressing the advantage all the way until it take down or finishing move can be delivered that actually finishes them off. The reality of most people who are skilled in Kenpo that end up having to defend themselves as they walk away with a sense of disappointment that the person they used Kenpo on went down within a couple of moves and they never got to use any rapid flowing follow-through‘s. One of the reasons Camp techniques do get as complex as they are is simply the principle of not putting all your eggs in one basket. I.e., we never wanna make the assumption that any target struck is going to have the effect we want it to have. Maybe they’ve had reconstructive surgery because of nerve damage so striking into the carotid nerve doesn’t have the effect it would on a normal person. Maybe they throw punch and we deliver a block that is also a strike to the radial nerve, which most people react to immediately, but it may not have that reaction in our attacker. Maybe they’re wearing something that dissipates a shot delivered to what is normally a vital target and they simply don’t react to it. Rather than waiting to see if they react or not, we are simply taught to immediately follow up with something else which feeds into something else etc. etc. but, if within the first couple of moves the appropriate reaction is what we get, then the attacker is going down. To those who would argue that Kenpo trains for overkill, we counter that for saying that we train for over skill acknowledging that a giving situation may require us to dial it back, which is almost always the case. Even me that has used the art against armed assailants wearing body armor and experienced maybe one or two shots not necessarily being affective, inevitably that rapid flow of strikes while moving in and taking their position with follow up strikes landing in other vital areas not protected by body armor, I was effective at what I did and the art was definitely providing me a return on investment, that investment being all that time spent training techniques but also mentioning that our techniques are enhanced with forms sets and training drills, many of those drills being ones focused on spontaneity training. It’s not fair to isolate techniques by themselves when they are meant to be a smaller part of a larger curriculum
@ Paul Canchola, I love what you are saying man, so true. I'm from Cape Town South Africa and grew up in a pretty dangerous and violent area(well alot of areas are dangerous and violent and gang infested). Kenpo has saved my life more than once, by just using the basics after 7 years of training. It's real self defense not organized fighting in a ring with rules. Also very importantly, it helps you deal with more than 1 attacker. I don't think the guy doing this video understands Kenpo really however is entitled to his opinion. Where I'm from the mutha F*ckers on the street and in prisons are evil(do some research on most dangerous gangs and prisons in the world). I've recently started kenpo Jiu-Jitsu and works well together however u can't roll in these streets because while u busy with 1 guy on the ground his friend will be busy kicking ur head in or stabbing the shit out of u, but if u defending yourself against 1 guy then I suppose it's ok lol...
"When picking apart a specific style that you don't practice you risk sounding foolish. It is never the style, it is the fighter." No, this idea that's all about the fighter is wrong. The style is how you train. What you practice, how you practice it, that's the style. If the style didn't matter, then anyone off the street could make up their own martial art and it would be as effective as every other style.
@@CombatSelfDefense ...but you did say that it shows the real skill of the martial art. Sparring is great for timing and distance, but typically ignores good targets for self defense.
@@michaelhoulton5113 if you can't land a clean punch to someone's nose, you can't land a poke to the eyes. If you can't kick the inside of someone's thigh, you can't kick them in the groin. Yes, a groin strike has the potential to end a sparring round/fight, but how often is that PURPOSEFUL and executed by people who spend more time practicing targeting those "good targets for self defense" rather than combat sports?
@@CombatSelfDefense We always practice groin shots purposely in Kenpo and then we go on to the next move made available by the reaction to the groin shot. In sparring, if the session isn't stopped, you look for another target that most likely wouldn't be the follow-up for a groin shot, so I respectfully disagree that sparring is similar to practicing self defense sequences. Not saying there is no value to sparring (timing, critical distance, etc.), just not the same.
It might of been just me, but when I trained for 2 years and ended on blue belt training, my instructor used different variations of sparring. One method was called the 1-2-3 method, where I would do 3 offensive moves, and they would react with 3 blocks simultaneously. Then what ever position we landed in we would freeze in. From there we would switch and then they would do 3 offensive moves well I would block all 3. He said the idea was to start training the brain to think quicker and ahead of time for your next 3 moves and from there you would mix portions of one technique with another all depending on the position the other would be in. Since in real life people won't always swing how you want when you hit them and all. I didn't realize this wasn't a normal approach from traditional dojo's when it came to training with Kenpo(I was trained by someone who obtained their black belt through one on one classes)
The argument that Kenpo/Kung Fu/Krav/Wing Chun/ etc. doesn't work aways breaks down in the simple defining of sparring versus real world defense. There are a ton of black belts that are great point fighters that have never fought a real street fight. Things on the street happen so fast and with such random violence that it can take even the most trained dojo fighter by surprise. Simple grappling moves along with boxing/kick boxing is the best combo out there to prepare for a real fight. Most of the rest is just patty-cake for points.
Hey Rob, love your channel. I have a couple ideas to consider in defense of Kenpo. First I'll admit I'm as inexperienced as they come. I've been training in Kenpo about 3 or 4 hours now and have watched 3 times that in martial arts videos. But perhaps knowing nothing may provide some fresh eyes on the problem. To me, a 10 hit attack would only work in a street fight and in no other scenerio. This ideal attack would almost work exclusively on the untrained fighter whose concept of fighting is nearly completely limited to punching someone in the face. Consider the simple but effective technique I'm learning called, Lever. The very first move involves breaking someone's elbow, followed by two elbows to the face that would knock someone unconscious. You'll never land 10 perfect blows on a trained fighter, especially in a tournament or sparing setting b/c that would always result in broken bones and concussions. That is the only way to get the body to comply with the next attack. The sequence would end and very possibly the opponents life. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for your input.
I believe also that it depends on the individual. My friend practices Tiger kung fu, Wushu and Feng Shou (Hans of the wind). He had about 10 street fights and fights in pubs and fights in the ring an he has never lost. He did extract portion of katas and use that in fights and it worked. But we trained for survival and not sport. We spar, do wights, bag work and train in self defense and we hot and get hit.
The dojo where I trained Kenpo 5.0 is with drills, kata's, forms, combat models, conditioning and sparring. The sparring was fullcontact though but not full force ofcourse more like 70 % but sometimes harder though. 😉 5.0 stands for the times the kenpo evolved because of the different styles of fighting. Kenpo 5.0 will learn you how to fight standing and how to fight on the ground with bjj. There are many types of kenpo. Jeff Speakman the guy in the video is more badass than he looks. He always said: To hear is to doubt, to see is to be decieved but to feel is to believe .
Yes Kenpo works, but it’s only once piece of the pie. Kenpo is literally the Krav Maga of traditional martial arts, meaning it was created for use in war. And yes you can use it against trained fighters. But Kenpo still has its holes like every art. I have been a student of the Tracy system of Kenpo since the 90’s. I have used this art throughout my life in altercations. Always works just as it was intended to.
Tracy’s Kenpo for me as well , I started in Tracy’s main school back around 1990 -2000 and stopped at 3rd Brown due to life taking me in a different direction. Joined the Army , had 1 tour in Afghanistan and when I got out settled and had a kid and then some more kids. Now I’ve started back to finish training to Black belt because my oldest son 23 and my youngest son 10 are training Kenpo now. Rodney Finn trained me when I was younger and now his brother Steve is training me and my sons. I’m a Tracy’s Kenpo lifer and have never had a problem taking care of shit on the street. Peace
I agree with you. The problem is that in many martial arts there are instructors who seem realistic but actually respond with at least 2 moves on one of the opponent's. This is already unrealistic.
Uh...you said Kenpo techniques are "defined as a long sequence of techniques" . That's not a definition. That's a description. Also, your argument re martial artists being skilled amateurs is false. When we say martial arts are for dealing with ruffians...we aren't talking about either martial artists or Pro fighters. We are talking about people who've never trained a day in their lives ..the majority of people. You can't randomly create a definition and say, "Oh Kenpo doesn't address the definition..I just created... therefore it doesn't work." That's not fair ...it's intellectually dishonest. Also talking about sequence and asking if a sequence will apply in a real situation is kinda unfair. I can put together a sequence in any activity as a training excercise...people have direct experience with things like that in science labs in school. A physics lab is sequence of tasks that is put together to impart knowledge of and practice in the application of physics principles. Now, when we apply physics in our daily lives will we do everything as we did in that lab? Probably not. We'd probably apply individual techniques from that sequence. The ones that best apply to the situation or the ones we understand the best It's unfair to suggest that a sequence doesn't work because a person doesn't apply the sequence as is. I might watch someone shadow box and decide to copy them to better appreciate shadow boxing . But if I step in a ring there's no way that I'll use that sequence as is...in the way that it was done....I'll most likely pick things from the sequence that applied...maybe I'll be slipping punches ..or maybe I'll work my jab. But there's no way that I'll do the entire sequence blindly to a live opponent. The sequence is just a textbook and I take what I need from it..when I need it. Another thing you're missing is that the techniques in sequence probably aren't meant to apply to long range fighting. Lots, most techniques done in Karate/Kung Fu forms are meant to be done in grappling style combat . So if you're going to apply them to long range combat ....some modification is necessary. Also ...when we learn boxing... we'll learn jabs...hooks.. whatever...we may find that the way we punch in practice might be a little different from the way we apply the technique..nothing wrong with that. I think that's normal...we adjust to situations.
lol, love the Bujinkan choreography comment. I've been in the Bujinkan 20+ years and I agree, most of it has become conceptual training and larping now. People used to be expected to go apply it in a lively form on their own but nobody does. Such a shame because there is some fantastic stuff in the system.
There are still bujin peeps that train correctly. But there are a lot that think they can be Hatsumi without first doing the development he did. You cant skip the evolution process and have good results
Your cross training reference is MORE than adequate. You're CORRECT. EXACTLY CORRECT but I learned to use our choreographed techniques as a WELL to draw water from not a blueprint. Incidentally GSP, Chuck Liddell, Ron Vanclief, Benny Urquidez and Steve Muhammad are Kempo jutsu trained as was Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. YOU MAKE WHATEVER TF YOU do effective or not styles and systems don't mean shit. A punch is a punch a kick is a kick irregardless and in the BEST Kempo jutsu schools you WILL BLEED. I don't GAF what someone else who NEVER used Kempo jutsu SD to literally save their ASS your opinion means NOTHING to me. ALL genuine article martial arts and sciences have merit and VALUE. 🙏🏼🐉🐅
My definiition of a Parker Kenpo technique: A series of moves against a specific line or lines of attack to illustrate one or more principles of motion. I agree w ArtofOneDojo that they can also be thought of as katas. The idea for me is to drill the moves until the become extemporaneous. Because of the complexity of the concepts it takes some time, but once understood these concepts can be applied to any martial art, which I did during the 1990's when I spent much time giving Kenpo seminars to various schools of other systems. Like some others sharing their experience here, my own includes security work, bouncing in a bar, MMA competition, law enforcement, and military. In each of these instances applying and teaching the principles of motion found in Kenpo was met with much success. When I saw my first Kenpo class with Huk Planas I'd already spent 15 years studying threee different styles of martial arts. This background allowed me to appreciate the sophistication of the Kenpo system all the more and I remember thinking this is what I've been looking for. I have gone on to study other systems including BJJ and Kali, but always find that incorporating the principles of Kenpo shores up any gaps. I once asked Dan Inosanto in 1988 which martial art he thought was the best and his response was basically the one that worked best for the individual. I think this is a truism. Enjoy the Journey...
Wherever you got your idea of Kenpo, L. Kenpo is meant to defend your life, not for games. A Kenpo fighter would disarm his opponent extremely fast by breaking a limb, damaging the throat, or stabbing an eye. Knee strikes to vital areas Elbows strikes to vital Areas, full power stomp kicks and spinning back fists. 1 proper connection, and you will be down. Kenpo is not dancing.
So. Let me tell you a story now. I was on an MTA Bus in the Bronx, New York area headed to my dojo class. When someone started a fight. Tried to ignore the individual when boarding the same bus. When my stop came up. I was attacked when exiting the bus. Applied the technique GRASP OF DEATH. Fight was over. Headed to class. Never explained it to my SIFU. Technique worked. What?
Four posts to make point, and when you use a phrase like GRASP OF DEATH (emphasis yours) you make a statement. And that statement is one of dishonesty. You may as well try claiming the Dim-Mak is real.
@@robertsomma7935 I am fine. Moving along with life. Hope. All is well with you. Was reading Todd Durgan's book on the universal pattern. Watched a few videos of you at the seminars in vegas.
Hi! Great video discussion, very respectfully approached and delivered. I do want to respectfully address a few of the points made here.
The comment regarding my saying that Kenpo techniques were not meant to be performed against trained fighters...isn't accurate. I said they were not designed to be performed in SPARRING. As in, they are not meant to be copied and pasted directly into a sparring match. That's a distinct difference.
You made the comment that sequential drills that teach multiple things at a time are valid. That's EXACTLY what Kenpo techniques are. They are basically mini Kata that teach several different concepts in "sample" situations. There are specific lessons for each technique. A lot of it is academic, a lot of it is applicable.
I want to address the comment about the criticism of the "What if" phase and the "why are the modified versions" not taught. You left out my point about the third and most important phase of Kenpo training, which is "formulation and freestyle". Phase 1: we learn the individual aspects the technique is teaching us. Phase 2: We learn how to address those aspects when things go wrong. Phase 3: we are at a point where we can be in any given position or situation and recognize on the fly what our options are and then apply any given specific idea we've learned from those techniques.
The freestyle and formulation is where the student is able to apply the material for real. I have pulled of many fragments of techniques in sparring. Crossing Talon, Five Swords, Deflecting Hammer, Intellectual Departure, Shield and Mace, and the numerous buckles, checks, rebounding strikes, redirections, and takedowns have come in handy during sparring. They worked not as the "copied and pasted" sequence, but because I recognized specific details on the fly and was able to resort to ideas and fragments taught from the techniques. Heck, I saw just a couple of months ago in person a fellow instructor pull of "Squeezing the peach" in a sparring match, and it worked beautifully. If you don't understand how surprising that is...TH-cam that technique.
They ARE taught in the modified version. Each technique has a counterpart somewhere in the systems with the "what if" answer. If all we taught was the modified version... then THAT becomes a Kenpo technique and the new "what if" would be what it played out the original way.
Drawing out the curriculum and being the CrossFit of Martial arts, I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. There IS a lot of material, and you could argue there is too much academic info, but the system is not drawn out and it takes the same amount of time to rank in Kenpo as most styles of Karate. Being able to process the academic and separate it from application falls on the instructor teaching it.
I have used Kenpo techniques in sparring, and in real life, and they have worked. My instructor worked as a bouncer and used several. Many of my classmates had self defense situations where they resorted to what they learned in techniques, and they worked.
While I agree and can respect many of your points, I do feel that maybe some of mine have been misinterpreted, as the video you are responding to is a 9 minute "excerpt" which was clearly marked as such in the beginning, from a 1 hour and 44 minute online discussion. I have also addressed many points in another full video "Does Kenpo Suck". (I will post link as a reply to this comment in case it's picked up by the filter).
Is Kenpo for everyone? No of course not, no style is. But it absolutely has value and works for some people, it's just another way to learn martial arts. Everyone learns differently, and it's a matter of finding a way to digest material that makes sense to you. If Kenpo isn't it, then I fully respect that. But I feel that many times the criticism is targeted at specific elements without experiencing or understanding the full picture.
Does Kenpo Suck? th-cam.com/video/ilzH1-qptsA/w-d-xo.html
For discussion's sake, I want to make two things very clear
1) I am a Kajukenbo black belt. While we can argue to what degree Kajukenbo is a Kenpo-style....it is a Kenpo style, so I am familiar with the techniques - at least in the way they are practiced and developed.
2) Of course, of course, of course, a person's enjoyment and individual experience will always trump any other "reason" for training in a given martial art. if your martial art involves you putting on a gi and playing chess in the park, and you enjoy it, then live your life.
That being said, my ultimate point with this video is that Kenpo (in general) teaches techniques and methods that do not quickly, and most effectively, teach fighting for sport or self defense. Do the movements work? Yes. Like I said in the video, swinging your arm as fast as you can and meeting another human being with it will damage them. Striking, ripping, grabbing, blocking, those are all universal movements that obviously work. It is the METHOD of teaching that I take issue with.
However, I agree that there is nuance between what is "academic" and what is "practical," and maybe there needs to be more appreciation for martial arts practices for their own sake, rather than those that seek to develop someone as a fighter (in sport or otherwise.)
@@CombatSelfDefense Well the truth is the method differs for everyone. There could be a debate between being effective for self defense vs fighting (there is a difference). The honest truth is, some people take to the teaching, some don't. If it didn't work for some people then it wouldn't be around today in the volume that it is. Are some arts better for other people? Or do other arts having teaching methods that are more conducive for others? Of course.
But the hard fact is, it's worked for me, it's worked for many people I know, and that fact alone is enough to tell me there is some merit to it. It all comes down to the level of understanding the material, the way it's taught, and the effort the student puts into it. To compare it to playing chess in the park is a bit insulting. We have hundreds of choices of martial arts. There is a method of teaching out there for everyone, and it's far more productive to focus on that aspect and improve oneself instead of trying to put down what someone else is doing.
@@CombatSelfDefense first thing you are taught in Kenpo when under attack is to step back, get out of the way. That does not take long to learn. Kenpo is boxing based. It does not take long at all to learn how to fight in sport or self defense. There is proof in the fact a Kenpo man has the record for the most wins in the oldest US open tournament, the Long Beach Internationals.
The only Kempo that work is Nippon kempo, they do sport, combat, military, Ed Parker and Hawaii HaloHalo Kempo are Fraud
I've worked in Law enforcement for over 20 years. I've been involved in countless uses of force going hands on. The last five have been working in one of the toughest prisons in Florida. Probably the country. We house the worst of the worst. American Kenpo techniques seem to work fine on inmates that train in all kinds of different types of systems. So based on my training and experience, Kenpo, if you actually learn it, is extremely effective.
@The Adjudicator and you apparently know squat. You probably don't have the balls to do what I do, so your opinion means shit
@@theadjudicator7323So you were there?
@@theadjudicator7323I mean, if you're a lifer, if kenpo doesn't work, the inmates should kill the guard, right?
@@cubiczirconiabeard5366 you mean juko-ryu i ALSO got a Blackbelt from DR rod
There is a power dynamic here so for non law enforcement the effectiveness might be reduced
I know Kenpo works. I'm a 5ft short female and it has saved me, more than once. That's what counts, It worked for me!! And could many others. Take care Everyone 💖
Exactly, instead of talking he should go train at a Kenpo school. I have heard several stories of Kenpo stylists successfully defending themselves on the street so obviously this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. One of my instructors told me a cop he knew was able to subdue a suspect high on drugs while all the other cops couldn't do anything to stop him. He had hit him so many times within just a few seconds the guys entire face was completely swollen.
Right. My instructors told me the "techniques" would not work as taught, but developed muscle memory and options. As a former prison guard I can attest to it's effectiveness. People watch training videos and think that's how the art is to be applied.
Too bad Rob Rowland can't see that
You were taught well. Your teacher taught you well if you can make whatever style you were taught work for you.
@@EricDraven-ci8wi Yes, I had n still have a great instructor. I've also had the Honor of also being taught by some of the best in Kenpo! A lot of them have passed away. But the wonderful memories and lessons are still with me ❣️.
I had to use Kenpo to defend myself seven times in the past fifty years. It was between ages 30- and 45. They all took one move and they were down. Now, I am 5'2", slim, somewhat muscular (lift weights) and small boned. Does American Kenpo workj? Absolutely!
I still teach and workout in Kenpo every week. I only teach adults.
Sifu
Puyallup, WA
I live in the US and do the Chinese version of kempo, and they don't even say sifu. I agree that's fishy
Thank u for your comment!
Yeah, my friend trained under Jeff Speakman. He took out several cops at a house party. I didn't witness it but his sister did. Kenpo works but you can’t simply learn it overnight like Krav Maga.
Sifu?
Dragonfly Jones is that you?
@Jake Collins Nah, it's not fishy. It's a product of the splintering of the art after Ed Parker's death. I know more than a few dojos that were legit Ed Parker dojos that have adopted this nomenclature and others like it.
I'm a senior kenpo blackbelt with experience in muay thai, BJJ, MMA etc and a nightclub doorman for 20 years, and I would agree Kenpo techniques dont work in their dojo form, but if you train them with the right entry, with escalating noncompliance they can be applied ,but in a taylored way. that is my experience anyway
Easier to box, wrestle and add in some submissions, cuts out the time wasted, and the possibility of dellusional thinking in that your kenpo, or krav maga, tae kwon do, will work in a real life situation, it really doesn't unless you understand this, and throw out what doesn't work, and have natural fighting abilities to begin with.
Ask the Kenpo UFC champ Chuck the ice man.
@@rickyd1126 Seen him box, not much kenpo, I find martial arts turn in to classic boxing, or brawling outside the dojo
@@WhySoSerious551 but boxing and MMA is based on two guys matched on size and weight meeting at a set time and place and agreeing to a rule set and then only being told they are allowed to fight after a bunch of space is made between them and a third party makes sure they are ready. Is that what you consider real fighting? Because that's not how violence happens in real life.
@@seric4546 MMA is just a mixture of disciplines, I don't believe in weight classes, but if there were none we wouldn't know Connor McGregor's name, which would be a good thing. When you have to fight you fight, no third parties, less people the better.
If this individual actually accumulated these ideas about kenpo while using them in fights, it would be much more believable. I've been practicing the art since 1994.So In the mean time I will continue practicing Kenpo and knowing it is most definitely an effective street fighting art.
45 years of kenpo . Not one street fight, came close but chose to de escalate or retreat. “The art of fighting without fighting” a quote from a movie that started my quest in the martial arts . I believe I can say I was confidently taught well . Thanks for the insight .
Stop
Waste of 45 years then really
@@WhySoSerious551 yall are fucking retards
Ok but u don’t need to train Kemp to learn to defuse a situation . Martial arts should be about self defense and learning to fight . Otherwise what’s it for ? I understand u don’t want to fight but u should be able to . Kemp Is so unrealistic . That’s not how fights go in the real world.
@@daviddelarosa5188 okay but it obviously worked for this gentleman if he didn't get into any fights. THAT is successful self-defense. I mostly do bjj nowadays but even if I did an art that didn't compete or spar like kempo and I successfully defused situations based solely off of confidence then that is a win
Studied Kajukenbo under a teacher who was also a musician. He would often say that scales and theory are vital, but that isn't where the music is.
Kajukenbo since 1990 and it works!
Who was your teacher
@@RiceDaddy-wo2fy Gerald Chavez
My dad is a 10th degree SGM who ran a dojo for many years, & personally trained in a close relationship under Mr. Ed Parker. It is a self defense/ combat capable style, but also an art form. Created by merging Chinese/ Japanese Kenpo with street fighting, it's been proven to be extremely effective in a variety of situations. The long forms used, are creating muscle memory, & refining accuracy/ speed/ power. Those moves are also meant for the possibility of multiple on one attack. It's not truly represented because in its nature, is meant to break/ damage/ immobilize your opponents. It's rarely used in full contact sports, as strikes are meant to attack weak targets (throat, groin, neck, joints, organs, etc). If someone comes at you with a knife, do you use 1-2 moves to knock it away? Or do you break the wrist, elbow, & shoulder ensuring it, or that arm won't be raised against you again? The art, is how many of those breaks you can make in those precious few seconds. In the end, like any martial art, you get out what you put in. My dad has Alzheimer's now, but after 60+ years of training those forms, his muscle memory is still on point.
I agree with most everything you said. I'm not going to claim knowledge of other people that did unknown things. I'm going to tell you the one and only time I attempted to use a Kenpo technique in its entirety. I was in a bar in college and I used Five Swords on a guy that grabbed me and cocked back to throw a punch.
It scared the crud out of me because I thought I killed him for a second. In other words, it worked.
When I joined the military in my 20s I started training BJJ and MT. Admittedly, they are a lot more practical in terms of fighting and, unfortunately, I had opportunity to test them too frequently. However, I also found that the concepts I learned in Kenpo were practical and helpful in my study and application of other combat arts.
In short, Kenpo techniques are effective against, as you said, unskilled and untrained opponents which, imo, are the vast majority of the people on this planet.
And to your point I believe that Ed Parker was a great reformer of Karate so that people could apply it in self defense situations....I have never been in a real fight but have witnessed more than a few where the people picking the fight or who were being picked on got nearly killed by street fighting types. I'm certain that if the victim had known and practiced even a small amount of Kempo they would not have found themselves lying on their backs defenseless getting kicked in the head. Sustaining injuries maybe, but their knowledge of Kempo would have provided them with skills to defend against extreme injury. Even for a non black belt, the awareness that is tought by good Kempo teachers would have saved them.
When I was 19, as an orange belt training for my purple belt, I was drunk at a party and a frat boy tried to take advantage. He had me flat on my back before my training finally kicked out the thoughts of "what if I overreact" and kicked in with LeBounty's "not me, not today!" I had been learning Hooking Wings and loved the circular nature of the second part of the technique. Well, it worked. I heard a crack as my back knuckle hit his nose and I pushed him off me. That was the only time I've ever had to use karate. Sparring wouldn't have helped me much in that situation as he was much heavier and stronger than me, but a nose is a nose, no matter on what face.
Here's the thing with techniques: they are like the first sentences you write after you learn the alphabet. In karate, they would be your basic punches, blocks, parries, and kicks. Yellow belt techniques are only 2-3 moves, brown belt's can be 10-12. But it let's you practice on partners of various sizes and shapes, and allows you to see what work for you and what doesn't. It also teaches us how the body will likely react when hit a certain way. If I punch someone in the throat, they will likely throw their head back before grabbing their throat and bending over. The next logical strike would be the groin since it will be open. The opposite will also be true. So just like with letters strung together to make words, and words strung together to make sentences, the better you get at your vocabulary, the better you will be able to master words on the fly when needed. And this includes using proper grammar.
Bottom line, techniques are great for real world attacks like a shove in a bar an ass grab or book grab, or an idiot throws a hay maker. There aren't too many street fight that last longer than a minute as the victim would want to get away to safety as quickly as possible. I'm sure there are way more of these than we typically hear about too, so to day techniques don't work is really just one person saying "I'm not good at them" or "I don't like them."
Many times, the labels we place on subjects of discussion really create a barrier to understanding. Many different approaches fall under the Kenpo label and almost none of them train in the exact same manner. Even within the more specific category of Kenpo from the lineage of SGM Ed Parker Sr. you have vast differences in the way his system was trained. I mean drastic changes in every aspect that you can, and many do, argue that the different phases were different arts, since they had different names.
Old School Kenpo Karate was trained very different then the Chinese Kenpo phase and that was very different from American Kenpo and so on. Then within each of those categories you have those direct students of his who taught their own students with their own unique approaches, often blending their previous or later martial arts training into their own approach. So, when anyone comes along and slaps down the sloppy, imprecise label Kenpo and starts painting with a wide brush about its techniques as if we all train the same way or do the same techniques you have to say "knock it off" because it's laughably, ludicrous. Frank Trejo did not teach the same way that Larry Tatum does, and they came up the ranks together under the same teacher. Mike Pick did not teach 10th Special Forces Kenpo the same way that Jeff Speakman taught. Even now Jeff Speakman does not teach the same way he taught in his early years because even among a single instructor the training methodology and technical understanding can change over time.
When I taught Kenpo during the war, I did not teach it the same way that I learned it from my own teacher. I have my preferences and my understanding of Kenpo demanded that my teaching fit the context and environment that the practitioners would be operating in. Don't judge ALL Kenpo on a text book layout of a Kenpo curriculum, Don't judge ALL Kenpo on training with one or two teachers, Paul Mills tested his Kenpo as a bouncer for decades and I know his approach and techniques are very different from the approach of Richard Planas.
These days Martial Artists cross train and cross reference each others approaches to an even greater extent than was the case in ancient times. So of course many Kenpo instructors have compared skills with Muay Thai practitioners and Judo or Jujutsu practitioners and so on, just like the Kaju folks did in Hawaii and those who felt like they needed to adjust this or that aspect of training did so and many found no need to change their approach because they found that what they did was working fine for them. I understand the need to title TH-cam videos with controversial titles to get more views but it can also have a side effect of having so many people listen to what is being said and dismiss the Instructor as simply inexperienced. Just my two cents.
That sir was a damm fine 2 cents worth and mirrored many of my own thoughts on the matter. Well said indeed and on the money IMHO.
A fantastic viewpoint sir! 👏🏻 The art evolves with each generation, & it's next masters. That's why you used to have to write a thesis before approval of the upper black belt echelon promotions could even be considered. My dad wrote the utilization of torque, linear motion, & marriage of gravity; in the 500 pound drop. Also worth noting... Dad also told me that in his later years, Mr. Parker split the style into 4 variations, to know where Kenpo students were learning their forms, & who from. I believe only the greats (like Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Roger Meadows, Steve Herring, Dave Menifee, Yoshio Furuya, etc) truly know either the original & all 4 variations of the style.
I am a 3rd Dan in IKCA Kenpo under Sifu Greg Payne. Kenpo can be more simplified than the most practiced, Ed Parker's American Kenpo. That's what IKCA Kenpo is. It is Kenpo in a more raw form. It has all the same principles and concepts of American Kenpo but does not repeat them over and over again within its techniques and form. That isn't to say that American Kenpo is wrong or bad. But yes, there's a lot of stuff drawn out. When you break the concepts into their simplest forms, it's extremely good. Similar words can be found in other responses in this thread.
In addition to my Kenpo I was also taught a form of street applicable Judo. That means less throws and techniques that emphasized being on the floor for extended periods of time and relying on garments to hold. This blend of Judo fit very nicely with my Kenpo. To this day it is very useful. I worked security and bouncing and later with youth in an alternative to detention program. I've had plenty of opportunities to use and evaluate the effectiveness of my training. However, with that said, I never have been to a point where I have had to pull out my striking ability. My grappling had been enough. What has come into play were knowledge of principles of motion, autonomic responses to stimulus, and awareness honed in Kenpo training.
I'm a believer in you need both striking and grappling. Need pants and long sleeves if you're in the cold.
The other thing I believe as a Kenpo guy or self-defense practitioner is that body toughening, strength training is also very necessary for self-defense purposes when learning striking arts. That means developing bones to be able to hit and also be hit, muscle and aerobic fitness to have stability, stamina and the not-so-simple confidence to survive. To me, techniques mean very little if you are brittle. This applies to all arts. Your sword don't matter if you can't pick it up and swing through your targets.
Osu
Huh, I'd have figured street judo to want to emphasize techniques that applied to clothing. I know you can do a lot of things to people that are wearing clothes with bjj than you can for people who aren't.
I agree. As an IKCA member under Sifu Glen Lyman there was so much I learned in the way of blending, continous sparing instead of point sparing, and cross training with schools of other styles.
6 months of boxing, wrestling, and submission is better than 20 years of kenpo.
@@WhySoSerious551 6 months each or 6 months all together. If all together, nope, that's still gonna go to the person who is just naturally tougher.
@@mc.9839 I won the British open sambo championships with six months training under my belt years ago, with ease. You're either a naturally good fighter, or not, you can improve someone that isn't but they'll never have the aggression, reaction speed, ability to see and exploit openings and just be an animal, I was doing this before I ever trained. Then I boxed, did Greco Roman, taught In the Royal marines, I have a good idea what works and what is a waste of time. Picked up something on the post, I could toy with black belts in judo, sambo before I ever trained, how.., genetics, and experience fighting, they never had a fight or experienced my ferocity. I teach people to concentrate on a half dozen submissions, basic takedowns, takedown defense, control, boxing, and other bits that merge with all that, it's easier to drill what you need, than waste time on what you do not. Just a solid take down defense, striking and knowing how to apply a few submissions from mount or work in the guard, get out of it, things get so over complicated. Look up mirko cro cop, best takedown defense I've seen, so grappling with the man was nullified, then he just sparked opponents out. As for in the street, the man that doesn't hesitate wins, that split second you put him down before he even knows there's going to be an incident. I never lose, day it happens, is the day I don't look in the mirror
I mean, as a blanket counterpoint to your argument. The techniques are in fact meant to train muscle memory for specific motions/blocks/strikes/etc.
At least in my dojo, we also consistently drill strikes, blocks, parries and more. Often sets and techniques incorporate these in some degree.
In combination of the two, with frequent sparring, I find myself subconsciously blocking and striking much more efficiently because of the motions being drilled into me. And of course, full contact sparring (not necessarily point based) more and more will absolutely help you flourish in fighting.
I totally respect your opinion, but calling something the "CrossFit" of something is insanely disrespectful, and I feel you didn't understand the core of what the techniques are meant to develop.
Exactly. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. Neither of the real situations I used kenpo in were restricted at all to the specific technique. Bits and pieces just kind of came out of different techniques (in an order I had never practiced before) and it worked. Definitely muscle memory.
Definitely I mean the heading of the vid and then hearing him counter the vid title is funny. And like others said, totally by passes the reason for some techniques to be learned as a base. 😂 then I see the opening montages of kickboxing “techniques” , must be cross fit 😂
I started training in United Studios' Kenpo (Karazenpo Go Shinjitsu) when I was 17 and it was often conveyed as patterned, step-by-step techniques in response to punch, grabs, kick attacks, et al. It often left me feeling unconfident if confronted in a real life attack situation. The training didn't begin and end there however. When was proficient enough in blocking and in basic strikes (around Purple or Blue Belt), free-style was encouraged-- freestyle and drilling-- I felt like a lot of that training increases confidence and I definitely found it and that was in the same Kenpo school.
I think the way Kenpo is conveyed and passed down is the reason why it gets so much criticism. It's often taught in such a way where the techniques are the apex and the goal, not as training mechanisms. A lot of the criticism here against Kenpo (particularly against American Kenpo) is not wrong, but I feel like there's a larger picture here. Ed Parker himself has often stated that the Techniques are not the end, not the goal, but rather expressions of the principles. In other words, he didn't intend for students to perform Line A, section 1, part 2, then B, part 3 and some kind of robotic choreographed technique in response to a right or left hook or thrusting punch. He DID have them train that way, but then the training would digress into reacting to strikes with freestyle, and then unpredicted strikes in a free-style manner. When taken as a whole Kenpo has great benefits-- it's just not always taught and conveyed the way Mr. Parker originally intended.
The reason why you don't see Kenpo in sparring is because it is an empty-hand method, one that is not for the combat ring and therefore not trained for wearing boxing gloves. You can't really do palm-strikes, ridge-hand strikes, hammer fists, knife-hand strikes when wearing whatever OZ. sized gloves. Kenpo is meant for the bare knuckle street confrontation and the pattern of attacks are not conducive for competitive ring combat.
Also--- has anyone posed to you, or any "bro" beating the shit out of everything at an MMA school: What would YOU do if somebody bear hugs you, grab your hair, pull you from your wrist, choke you with two-hands.... ? You see what I'm getting at? Everybody's so busy dumping on Kenpo for its "unrealistic" strike defense. At least it offers responses against street attacks. Are you trained to handle 'wild' street situations for when someone chokes from the front or behind, from a grab or a headlock?? My guess is that whatever "Combat" or "MMA" gym out there, there's no handle on real world defense scenarios. And if there is-- - I'm guessing they are pulling from a Traditional system...... So here we are again back at Square One. Half of what Kenpo is training against are grabs-- hair, shirt, shoulder, wrist and grabs from behind or chokes. Much of the criticism against Kenpo is really apples to oranges
The grab defenses are very advanced in BJJ these days. Maybe also in judo. Also if you are a proficient grappler you will most likely laugh your way out of any headlock attempt or what not. But you have a point probably in that boxing won't teach you that. Overall boxing or kickboxing is much more effective than kempo I think but there are freak situations where kempo may be better even though trying to get out of a tricky hold with striking alone may not be the most effective defense.
In Kenpo we understand and know that it is very difficult for us to use a technique that is seen in the videos, in a complete way. Your analysis missed or ignored something very important: Stage 3 of "Formulation".
In Kenpo there are three well-defined stages through which the student goes through his learning.
Stage 1 or embryonic stage (Ideal Situation, which is what practitioners are seen executing a complete technique with an immobile sparring), is the beginning of the training of a kenpoist. It is similar to the way a child learns to crawl, feel and grasp. The student learns to execute different foot maneuvers; stances, blocks, strikes in conjunction with standing and kicking. Here an ideal situation is simulated, although it will rarely happen like this in the lane, however it gives us an idea of the different reactions of the opponent to our response to an attack. Here the student had a training base and was able to analyze an attack and a response to said situation.
Stage 2 or mechanical stage (what if), is where the student learns the basic maneuvers to properly execute a self-defense or form, expanding on the fundamentals of stage one. When he combines the basics and incorporates them into self defense, he learns to move with great efficiency. In addition he learns to create and control distance, moving away or closer to an opponent. Here the student explores the "What - happens if" or "What if", the various dangerous situations and all the possibilities they contain for defense.
Stage 3 or the spontaneous stage (Formulation), involves the development of an instinctive way of moving. Here in this stage the movements of the techniques learned and repeated infinitely by the student, are executed spontaneously. The student spontaneously blocks, kicks, punches, and checks in direct response to his opponent's actions. You can also spontaneously adjust or re-align the order of your techniques depending on how the attack progresses, this is a Formulation phase, in which you not only learn to analyze "what and if" but to adapt a technique during the course of an attack. For example, by inserting a technique into another, a new combination of basics is obtained, as a reaction to a certain attack. Here is a real fight in the street, where we must defend ourselves. We know that we will not execute the complete technique that we practice in the Dojo, but our movements are automatic to certain attacks and these movements are born from the 154 techniques that we have practiced for years by heart, it can be the complete technique or just the first blow of one, no it's known. What is correct is that being a flow of movements, we know how to chain and create the next attack, and the next one that will lead us to annul the opponent. In short, the development of Kenpo techniques encompasses years of training and understanding of the embryonic and mechanical phases, which gradually lead the student to the spontaneous phase. During this whole process, he will learn to move properly and manage his environment. He will also handle the concept of viewing a situation from three points of view; his own, that of the opponent and that of a third party outside the event (an observer or observer). To conclude, a good Kenpo student perfects and assimilates self-defense techniques through these phases or stages.
Therefore, to analyze Kenpo only based on the observation of the execution of its 154 self-defense techniques, in Stage 1 of the "Ideal Phase", is to fall into ignorance (in the good sense of the word), or the lack of understanding of art.
Greetings.
Very well summed up, gusjar!
Ed Parker, much like the Gracies with BJJ, developed his style by taking it to the streets and pressure testing it for real.
Since his passing I'm sure some Kenpo school have suffered from McDojo infection but calling it the CrossFit of MA is incredible ignorant and disrespectful. I've seen Kenpo work for real, no it didn't take 15 strikes to do it but that's all part of learning flow and coordination. much like in certain Chinese and Filipino arts.
So Ed Parker's techniques are ineffective? What the hell is he so famous/well respected for then?
Go to Bob whites kenpo and spar them. These black belts are fast as hell and are masters at distance control, all while using point sparring techniques. If they can keep me away (I'm a boxer), I bet they can do a few of their techniques on you in a fight. They are fucking fast, kenpo looks silly, but if that gym spars alot they can make kenpo work
As a Blackbelt from Bob Whites karate studio who just stumbled on this video/ comment. This comment made me smile and feel very proud! Oosah!
I was a kenpo karate student during my childhood for seven years, from the ages of five to twelve. What I learned extended far beyond fighting - we were taught about bully psychology, warning signs, how to scare off attackers, how to fall, roll, and retreat, and perhaps most importantly, how to practice self control and discipline. I do agree that it is more important to practice the moves themselves than it is to practice the techniques after reaching a certain threshold to become a better fighter. There were three times that karate techniques distinctly helped me defend myself from school bullies. Karate also helped me protect myself from altercations with men (some of whom were much stronger than me) later in life. Learning about human anatomy and psychology in medical courses further increased my understanding of karate principles. I would highly recommend the study of those topics to folks who are seeking to become more effective martial artists.
i have a best friend who has trained kempo his whole life and one time i saw him get into a real fight and he didnt apply any kempo technic, but his hands speed and power was scary. he knocked the guy out very easily. SO kempo gave him fast hands and power.
Karate is nothing . Most of these “karate fighters “ don’t even apply karate in real fights . They just punch regular or kick regular . Just do regular kickboxing or muey Thai or boxing . That’s all that works
@@daviddelarosa5188 I thoroughly explained how karate helped me defend myself so 💁♀️
@The Void Hi, while you are a white belt, the others will expect you to still be learning how to gauge your control. I would openly ask your sensei and your partners to practice techniques with you so you can get a sense of the control expectations for when you are sparring. They can vary from partner to partner. Where I studied, we would do group activities, but didn't start sparring with each other until sometime around blue belt or green belt, so don't be afraid to ask your sensei and the other seniors questions.
Most of the situations I ended up in involved men trying to subdue me. There was one time when one tried to take me out with a glass bottle. What I learned from sparring and techniques did not translate over in an exact science. What ended up benefitting me was my muscle memory and flow, so I was able to use fear tactics, deliver several self-defense hits in succession, and escape.
I loved this comment. My experience is with the KJBA so it is not represented well on the internet. I would argue this is what helped make me who I am.
_Martial arts in self-defense no matter the style is about instinct reaction, where your body learns to respond to an attackers attack position, Constant repetition of your body, responding to an attackers attacks directions toward you using multiple techniques._
_Your body will autonomously respond to the repetition you’ve been practicing, the only thing you have to try not to do is think_
I'm a tae kwon do and hapkido 4th dan,went to several open tournaments where i sparred kenpo practitioners and all that fancy slapping they do in their forms was never used during the fight,so...why do they even learn those techniques if they don't use them when it matters??
It is amazing that how many times I have heard that a certain art does not work or is not effective art.
People love to tell others that your art really won’t work and what they offer is better. That may not be the practice in this video.
I have studied a few different martial arts in my days. I have studied over
45 years and I am willing to listen and learn up until the day I cannot train.
Kenpo was my main art, then I trained in kung fu, jujitsu, boxing
Shotokan karate because I wanted to be well rounded in my abilities to defend myself and my loved ones.
I hear what you are saying about some of the kenpo techniques, for me they give me a foundation to choose how I will get out of a situation alive. I have used several kenpo technique’s in a fight and won
And then I mixed my techniques from the other styles I learned, to stay alive.
From you video I see kick boxing which I studied for a few years
What happens when your in a choke hold kenpo taught me 12 different ways to get out of that situation along with the jujitsu I trained in.
Every art has value it is up to the teacher and student to see what works best in any given situation.
I am glad I trained in kenpo because I have a vast knowledge I can draw from as with the others I trained in.
Thank you for making the video
I think you should try the art first though before you criticize.
Yes I know no one will stand there and allow someone to beat them senseless to finish a technique.
That is common sense but truly understand the whys and the what’s
Keep training and stay fit, it is getting tough out there
All styles/systems work in a self defense situation because someone in history has used them in real life not just in the dojo or in mma where there's rules but when it was literally life and death.
Mark Grogan exactly mate. Kenpo gives us more options and choices. We don't have to use all those combinations or moves as this guy in the video suggests. I see kenpo as more aggressive and brutal fighting system. Good luck out there sir, oss👊👊🥊🥊🙏🙏🥋🥋
@@jason3000ize What modern system has been tested with no rules in life and death combat?
@@kacklerot As i stated, what do you think was used in feudal Japan /ancient china/Korea and medieval Europe as well as every place else? it was the so called traditional martial arts and it was used to KILL not for a trophy belt and title.All you have to do is look at history.
@@jason3000ize You didn't answer my question.
Kenpo is far too dangerous to spar with. We target the parts of the body that would severely injure people. Kenpo is a life-or-death art, not a sport. That's why constant repetition is the only way to master it.
Ah yes the good old “we are to dangerous to spar “ excuse classic excuse for laziness
@@aaronpaulo7533 It is what it is. We don't want to put our partners in the hospital.
@@10oneluv10 yeah don’t worry you wouldn’t 😂
@@aaronpaulo7533 Exactly, it's used for life and death only.
Simply put- I say bullshit!
As my avatar suggests, I'm a longtime Kenpo practitioner and instructor. I've also done lots of other martial arts, including your "modern MMA" ones like BJJ, Judo, and Muay Thai. Like others have said, Kenpo techniques are training tools, like forms ("kata"). Each one is like a hypothetical "you could try this move in this situation" or "this could lead into that", similar to drills in sports. A big part of Kenpo is learning how to combine excerpts of different techniques or formulate your own on the fly, because it is expected that real attackers won't perfectly follow the script you learned in class.
I would be so open to Kenpo if their was regular actual sparring that wasn’t people flopping around
@@Timewarpradio Where I trained, Dennis Nackord ran the school and Joe Lewis came by a lot. We did some pretty good sparring, but I moved away more than ten years ago, so I can't say what's going on there now. I think it's dependent on the individual school. You can see a lot of variation between schools even in the same style. When I started doing Muay Thai, my Kenpo skills transferred nicely in terms of things like having good form, keeping your stance while under pressure, distance/angle/timing control. Things like using a low, wide stance didn't transfer, I got leg kicked a lot even though we had leg kicks at Nackord's school. I was able to learn Muay Thai over time just by not refusing to adapt and change. I kept things like the Joe Lewis side kick, and Dennis Nackord's counter punch tactics, but I was able to add things like Muay Thai grabs, kicks, and tactics. It was a good experience, and the two systems worked together well. But I had to be willing to admit freely if the Kenpo approach to a given situation wasn't right and train Muay Thai like a beginner, not like a visiting grandmaster who already knows everything.
I get it, but the thing I found in Kempo is that it doesn't really prepair yourself for a real work attack. So many 'techniques' are complex responses to simple attacks. I learned how to handle situations more from a more fitness orentated Kung Fu class that has regular 'soft' sparring than over a year of Kempo.
This is my first time seeing a video from this channel. I'm an orange belt in Kenpo so this is an interesting take for me. I partially agree and disagree. I always figured the techniques are more like teaching coordination and how to flow, and that's where a Kenpo-ist might get an edge on someone who doesn't do Kenpo. Some of the techniques are responses to things that you won't have happen in a dojo or gym like someone grabbing your shirt, self defense situations. It's also as you said the techniques are broken down into smaller pieces that can be done in a real situation. My instructor will also tell me when a technique is more realistic vs less realistic, and when students of his have actually used it to defend themselves, so there are some cases of techniques being tested IRL. I do agree that some things aren't as necessary, or maybe draw out training, and I'd rather be sparring or hitting the bag. My instructor definitely emphasizes sparring though so that's good!
Appreciate the response! I tried to make clear - I don't dislike Kenpo or think its a waste of time. There's just certain practices that need to be pruned.
@@CombatSelfDefense I can see what you're saying.
Techniques are learning tools, just as sparring or drills.
@@CombatSelfDefense : I'm from the BKf lineage and I agree with your context. We're constantly reminded by Sijo Steve that we must constantly evaluate self. Always seek to improve and simplify. If the art isn't evolving, then it is not a living art. It is fact in fact, DEAD. For example we don't do leaping crane today, like one may see it done on videos 30+ years ago. Sijo says it this way: 30 years old is 30 years slow. Techniques must be upgraded, although EP stated, you won't necessarily see a whole technique done on someone in an actual fight. That said, I thought about showing examples of how I've been taught to move with the times myself. I'm sure I'd be criticized by my peers perhaps. But personally I've had issues with some instructors teaching. I don't like the training vids I've seen over the last 20 years I've been in Kenpo. What's taught in vanilla lacks what an opponent with intent will actually look like. " Charging Ram" or "Striking the serpents head" should be shown today it's effective against someone who actually knows how to do a single/double leg shoot/takedown. And if an instructor can't show this, there is a problem! So The BKf have eliminated and added things for "actualization." For "fighting with karate." What I respect about this particular Sijo is he does not teach theory! Thus Sijo and his students have now moved into a science called: KenWingTaiBa. So I understand clearly what you're trying to convey.
@@zendragon6214 an yet all kenpo sparring is simple kickboxing...so why not just train kickboxing?
Oh, I disagree. My instructor in Medford, Oregon once demonstrated a punch defense (Ed Parker style) and he executed nearly 15 coordinated, close combat moves - modified 7 Swords (with full science - gravitational marriage, economy of motion, etc.) in about 1.5 seconds. It was blinding and breathtaking. It was actually beautiful to watch. MMA looks like a bully brawl in the school yard. No comparison. JMHO.
Demonstrated or pulled of in a fight
One of the best things about experiencing American Kenpo as taught by a talented instructor, is that you get videos such as this. American Kenpo ruly a diamond in the rough, as opposed to the countless McDojo's and corner shop 'mma' schools.
The guy I know that teaches out of a garage, is a beast. The Tracy Kenpo school near our local Brookfield Zoo - an unfortunate slap-master dojo.
Importantly, as with any martial art, physical ability, honest personal time spent being physically fit, is a pre-req to do well in any art. Understanding the fluidity of motion that puts a qualified kenpoist above most 1-2 stop hit karate stylists, takes a lot of discipline.
For that reason alone, kenpo is just not a great art for a school that needs to make profit.
Sadly.
We had 7 Kenpo dojos within a 25 mile radius, each had Kumite on a different night. All students were allowed to go to the other dojo's Kumite night. If you wanted, you could fight every night of the week, with multiple different opponents. I liked that aspect of Kenpo in my area, plus our dojos were one price for the whole family. I don't believe any other martial art in the area had that available.
One thing I will say is, when I was just a yellow-belt and at Kumite, my Brown-belt opponent (now 7th degree Black and Master of his own Dojo) showed me that striking is not everything. No matter how hard I tried, he was somewhere else every time I tried to strike him. He was very fast! You have already won, if they can't hit you.
I find any gym where skill is graded with belts, is an utter waste of time.
lol I can’t take this video seriously just based on how goofy you look with your shadow boxing lol
It's pretty bad lol
I am a lower rank in kenpo, but have studied several other forms of martial arts. I have used various martial arts in different live situations. It is amazing the ways a person reacts when the adrenaline kicks in. Kenpo is used as an advanced Method to Neutralize the situation.
I'm not sure if you were using all of your video clips posted in your presentation as examples of what you would do in a street fight, but I'm sure that a Kenpo person at the same ability level would take out a person using style in a live situation. I would not use your style if someone attacked me on the street.
I would use kenpo or krav maga..
I agree you could never use kenpo or crav maga in mma format, because they are to aggressive and can be permanent as far as the damage inflicted. It it is not designed for the ring but for the street.
It is very unintelligent for you to say that an opponent will stand there while you do a set of moves on you on the streets. One strike to the groin or a backfist to the head while maintaining one's own coverage would just about do it. Obviously you have not studied the principles and techniques of Kenpo. I would make a list of them, but the list would be too long. Any 1-3 strikes in combination would immobilize or kill someone. Kenpo's intensity and combination of individual principles/ techniques can be raised or lowered to match the level of force and threat. Try it!
Yes, this is why all the kenpo practitioners who jumped into MMA competitions put up such a good fight and weren’t immediately overwhelmed by pressure. Their techniques were just so deadly they didn’t even know how to defend themselves without killing somebody. That makes sense
@@CombatSelfDefenseif you're being sarcastic, shame on you. Otherwise , that is true of a lot of martial arts that the mma/bjj infatuated crowd simply don't understand. If there are martial arts that aim most of their efficient strikes at the throat, eyes, groin area and knees, doesn't it follow that there's a reason it can't be used in sports limited situation? Also, Judo can and has been used in army combatives to kill and maim ends situations super fast, but Judo won't rank highest for "mma" where you can't break someone's neck or break their bones. You are a very, very ignorant man.
I did kempo for around 3 years, achieved 1st degree brown belt. And I appreciate and agree with a lot of what you said. One thing I ran into a lot was kempo/kenpo students and teachers is a strict holding to the idea that we are somehow more skilled than the average mugger which to me is foolish, the first thing you should assume in a self defense situation is that the attacker probably has had prior experience fighting (I'd imagine if you turned to mugging to make ends meet you probably grew up fighting your way to survive in rougher areas).
My teacher once explained it to me that the point of kempo and styles like it are meant to focus on what he described as "chambering" and how each movement of your body should be used to set up the following strike or block (or grab).
Is American kenpo and effective martial art? I would say a majority of the schools teaching it aren't, but once in a while you do find someone who goes off the kenpo dogma and teaches you something worth while.
I'm inclined to agree with you - it is usually a safer bet to assume your attacker/opponent is more experience/skilled than you are and adjust accordingly.
Ultimately, I don't think AK is a bad martial art. Far from it, I think there's a lot of philosophy and principle behind it that make it an excellent way to grow as a martial artist. I do think the way the style tends to practice its techniques, however, needs to be changed.
@@CombatSelfDefense 100% agree.
I took kenpo for 4.5 years, achieved blue belt. Totally agree with you about assuming the average attacker/person has had prior experience fighting. My instructor always preached this too - he said always assume a stranger has at least a green belt (intermediate) experience in combat.
@@mitsk2002 I suppose it's a good thing to assume. You'd be wrong, though. I've always been shocked at the amount of 'tough guys' that are unable to fight.
What style of kempo did you study?
Kenpo is not just a martial art filled with techniques and random movements; it is a complex system that teaches essential principles to its practitioners. These principles are not just about reacting to an opponent's attack with a specific technique but are designed to instill a deeper understanding of the art of self-defense. I take Tracey Kenpo one on one with Instructor Ben Pratt and we have two programs One where we prefect Kenpo technique's and the other where we train fight principles and they are two different ends of the Art. Can I pull off a Kenpo technique on the street? Probably most of it especially if I go first.. Can I use Kenpo in a street fight? Yes but Fighting Kenpo not strictly defensive Kenpo. Tracey Hired Joe Lewis early on to put us on top in a ring and since then we have had some pretty smart minds tweak it!
One of the key figures in the development of these principles is Joe Lewis, a renowned martial artist who brought a unique perspective to the world of Kenpo. Backed by the legendary Bruce Lee, Lewis introduced the 25 fight principles that have become a cornerstone of modern Kenpo training.
1. Setups: Setting up an opponent for a strike or a takedown is crucial in Kenpo. By creating opportunities through feints and subtle movements, a practitioner can gain the upper hand in a confrontation.
2. Positioning: Proper positioning is essential in Kenpo to maximize the effectiveness of techniques and movements. Being in the right place at the right time can make all the difference in a fight.
3. Independent Movement: Each part of the body should move independently in Kenpo, allowing for fluid and dynamic attacks and defenses.
4. Initial Speed: The ability to initiate an attack with speed and precision is a key aspect of Kenpo training.
5. Critical Distance Line: Understanding the optimal distance to engage with an opponent is crucial in Kenpo. Maintaining the right distance can dictate the outcome of a confrontation.
6. Line of Attack: Knowing how to target vulnerable spots on an opponent's body is essential in Kenpo. Striking along the correct line of attack can increase the effectiveness of a technique.
7. Bridging the Gap: Closing the distance between yourself and an opponent while minimizing the risk of counterattacks is a fundamental skill in Kenpo.
8. Five Primary Techniques: These fundamental techniques are the building blocks of Kenpo training, teaching practitioners the basic movements and strategies of the art.
9. Leading Side Versus Rear Side: Understanding the advantages and disadvantages of leading with different sides of the body is crucial in Kenpo.
10. Economy of Motion: Avoiding unnecessary movements and conserving energy is a key principle in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to execute techniques with maximum efficiency.
11. Relaxation Versus Tension: Finding the balance between being relaxed and being tense is essential in executing techniques effectively in Kenpo.
12. Mobility Versus Immobility: Knowing when to move and when to stand your ground is a crucial aspect of Kenpo self-defense.
13. Extension, Hyper-Extension, Double Hyper-Extension: The ability to extend strikes to their fullest potential can make a significant impact in a fight.
14. Leading Centers: Understanding how to control an opponent's center of gravity is a key skill in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to manipulate their opponent's movements.
15. Unpredictability Versus Classical Form: Incorporating unpredictability into techniques can catch opponents off guard, increasing the chances of a successful attack.
16. Straight Line Versus Curved Line: Knowing when to attack in a straight line or along a curved trajectory can enhance the effectiveness of techniques in Kenpo.
17. Defensive Choices: Having a range of defensive options at your disposal is essential in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to respond effectively to various attacks.
18. Initial Speed Versus Combinations: Knowing when to strike with speed and when to use combinations of techniques can keep opponents on their toes in a fight.
19. Faking: Using feints and deceptive movements to mislead opponents is a valuable skill in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to create openings for attacks.
20. Constant Forward Pressure: Maintaining pressure on an opponent can restrict their movements and force them into defensive positions in Kenpo.
21. Time Commitment Theory: Understanding the timing of attacks and defenses is crucial in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to capitalize on openings and weaknesses in an opponent's defenses.
22. Defensive Movement Patterns: Knowing how to move defensively while maintaining offensive capabilities is a key aspect of Kenpo training.
23. Angle of Attack Versus Technique Variation: Changing the angle of attack and varying techniques can confuse opponents and increase the chances of successful strikes in Kenpo.
24. Half Commitment, Full Commitment, Extension Commitment: Knowing how much commitment to put into strikes and techniques is essential in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to adapt to different situations in a fight.
25. Theory of Broken Rhythm: Disrupting an opponent's rhythm and timing can create opportunities for successful attacks in Kenpo, allowing practitioners to control the flow of a fight.
Incorporating these principles into Kenpo training can elevate the practice from a series of techniques to a comprehensive system of self-defense and combat strategy. By understanding and implementing these principles, practitioners can develop a deeper understanding of the art of Kenpo and enhance their skills as martial artists. As Joe Lewis and Bruce Lee have shown, the 25 fight principles provide a solid foundation for advanced training in Kenpo, helping practitioners to reach new levels of mastery in the martial art.
Zzzzzz this is another reason why Kenpo sucks these boring long ass lectures
@@aaronpaulo7533 defiantly not for bangers..
@@aaronpaulo7533 An ad hominem fallacy is when someone argues by attacking the person who made a point, instead of addressing the point itself. Imagine that two kids are talking, and one says, “Your idea won’t work because you’re always lying.” They’re not talking about the idea; they’re just calling the other kid a liar. That’s ad hominem. Another way to think about it is like this: it’s when someone tries to win an argument by saying mean or irrelevant things about the person they’re arguing with, not by discussing the actual topic...
@@johnlewis4856 no I addressed the point very clearly. Kenpo guys spend to much time talking about useless theories rather than actually training that’s why so many are out of shape
This guy is entitled to his opinion. But he has horrible striking. So it's hard to take him seriously.
Well said. I have to agree with a lot of your video. I spend many years in Shaolin Kempo and I have to say there was a big focus on punch techniques. Everyday we went over these techniques knowing that they would not work on the street. A couple years ago I found John Hackleman, The Pit Hawaiian Kempo and I have to say his system of Kempo is the best Kempo system I have ever seen. His system is very practical and he doesn't waist your time with silly punch techniques. He teaches you how to fight and defend yourself with very short practical techniques that work.
look up Roger Carpenter, he was a kenpo practitioner who dominated in free sparring fight competitions.
I’m an ex boxer and coach also a kempo practitioner of many years so allow me to say that kempo or kenpo either and boxing techniques have worked very well for me working as a security specialist on the streets as an effective street self defense period!!!!! I owe my very life to kempo and my k9
The statements in your video are valid. I am a 4th Degree Black Belt in Kenpo with 49 years of daily training. The version of Kenpo I practice is from the James Mitose lineage through Adriano Emperado, Marino Tiwanak, Florentino Pancipanci and John Redmon. Our sequences are far less complex than those that Ed Parker created. I think a student could become overwhelmed and confused in a self defense situation if their mind is glutted with dozens of sequences. We were taught to practice formal sequences, but to also form a few of our own individual self defense techniques from those sequences and practice those until they become automatic reactions. The self defense techniques should be very simple and straight-forward because an attacker is not going to stand still for the defender to run through his sequence. They will be in constant, unpredictable motion. Our formal sequences are mostly to practice the flow of techniques, power, breathing, tempo and balance.
Good morning Sir,
Do you know Master Warren Jones! He still teaches your style in Pensacola.
@@jthowar Yes I do! I consider him a good friend. We both started in Master John Redmon's classes in the 70s. Master Warren is an excellent teacher.
@@bqvideo I spoke with him, recently. He confirmed that he knows you as well, and that you two trained together. I've known him for some years, and even got the chance to meet Master John Redman, as I once traveled with him to Pensacola. But we lived in different states, which didn't give me a real chance to train in Kenpo. I did spend some time in American Kenpo, but it didn't seem to be what I wanted. So I did Shorin Ryu for a while. But now that Master Warren has settled down in Pensacola, and has opened a school, I may give it another shot. Hope I'm not too old to learn it now.
@@jthowar Of course you're not too old. Master Warren will train you in a way that is appropriate for your age and physical condition.
@@bqvideo thank you for talking with me. And also, thank you for the videos that you’ve posted on here. I’ve often wondered if I’d ever see someone perform Kenpo in it’s original form on TH-cam. I was excited to watch you. As I said before, I’ve never trained in it, but I immediately recognized your movement; because I’ve watched Master Warren several times before.
Question❓ How many people from Kenpo have won in UFC type tournaments❓🤔
Real Kenpo is dirty and brutal like how it was created in Hawaii. I hate the Kenpo studios who water down the art and make it more appealing to the general public. I understand people need to make money but Kenpo is about survival, not going to tournaments where there are rules.
I trained kenpo during my teenage years and earned a black belt in the system, I can 100% confirm what you expressed in the video. The kenpo techinques are completely unrealistic and don´t teach you actual fighting, I ended up switching to BJJ which I have been training for about 5 years (BJJ blue belt currently), even as a 2 stripe white belt I had already learned much more about actual fighting than in my years in kenpo.
I've done Security for many years. My art is Kajukenbo. I've seen kenpo guys that were good and bad in various situations. At the end of the day it's not about the art at all, the only way to learn how to fight is by fighting.
Kenpo does not work because nobody holds the hand out and pause and let you do the 5 or 6 techniques in the 1, 3 or 3 seconds to do them all.
And anyone whose studied a day in thier lives know that "techniques" are to train muscle mem. And that an entire technique was never intended to be used start to finish
First note: there is different types of kenpo
.
Kenpo karate is one of the most effective material arts because of its aggressiveness IN fighting, not all kenpo but at least the kenpo karate I do, is named on of the most agressive. “Be there first and last to move” you go into the fight and you will be the orn who has the last move (winning obviously) I’m a top student and a school champion for a reason, I’ve gone against many different dojo’s and different types of material art. I’ve never lost to any different material arts except another kenpo student. I’m not going to be specific because I don’t want a whole arguement in my comments. But most really suck now days which make people underestimate material arts. Yes of course our master has us doing the same thing over n over to get better at it, why? Because disciple is a huge part with it, it’s not the biggest, the biggest is to harm your enemy and we always do, but disciple is needed. I’ve used it against many random kids, 3 At once even, 2 grown men, those in real life situations and ofc many tournament matches. Don’t underestimate it if you don’t know it well.
If you have true criticism of Kenpo (Chinese), look to Chuck Lidell, but if you look at American kenpo (all your videos are of Jeff Speakman) look to the Parseghian brothers, Robert Sotomayor, or Dan Pribble. All of them are amazing example of Kenpo karate.
10 years learning Kenpo with a 3rd degree black belt. One aspect of the martial art that doesn't get the respect it deserves is the philosophical aspect. I was taught to avoid conflict whenever possible. I got into 7 conflicts on the street that escalated into a fist fight. Each time, I ran away as fast as I could. I always got away because I did sprints almost every day. I never got to use my Kenpo, but I like to think that it would have come in handy if I wasn't able to run away.
That’s nothing unique to Kenpo….any martial art with a half competent teacher will tell you to do that because it’s not philosophical it’s just basic common sense
This comment is hilarious. The logical conclusion is your time was better spent in the gym and on the track, getting fitter and faster, than in a dojo!
I have to say I’m a American Kenpo practitioner myself , I understand what Mr . Dan is saying and also agree with you with most of the things you’ve said in this video. I have to what bothers me the most about kenpo is that we the basics to teach students how to use them in a way you see how boxers or mma guys train. That’s something that even my own kenpo people don’t realize. We have what it’s called freestyle techniques and it’s a shame that kenpo doesn’t utilize a lot of Mr. Parker had taught us . Parker expressed the in kenpo we have basics, self defense techniques and freestyle sparring or or fighting simulations, like I’ve seen in a Gracie jujitsu school that was once in for a short time. I believe is more about the practitioner, then the art
Well I suggest that our techniques are not meant to be used exactly as taught but they are designed to give us options to adjust if in a fight. Yes many of our techniques are complicated and require repetitious practice to master. But the idea is to practice over and over to condition a reflex reaction for defense or attack from various angles and situations.
@Jake Collins No excuses. If you read my comment you will see I am not suggesting any dogmatic idea but instead emphasizing techniques as a way to practice movements which may come in handy. We can't say definitively that techniques don't work.
@Jake Collins Well we will just have to agree to disagree.
@Jake Collins I've used Kenpo in a street fight. I'd say it works pretty good.
@Jake Collins well you said they don't work. Your statement isn't grounded on anything factual.
Exactly, it’s part of the discipline to which people usually think it’s dumb but it’s actually very effective in many many ways
I think Ron Van Clief said it better, martial arts suppose to free yourself, using your imagination to expand your learning. Martial art techniques work in theory, but very little in practice. When Rorion Gracie found the UFC in 1993, it was to test Gracie Jiu Jitsu at a functional level (expand the Gracie Challenge against more skilled fighters). The Gracie Challenge showed a lot of Black belts their limitations because they were stuck in a system, not freeing themselves to cross train and relearning (example: a martial art instructor wrote an article about their experience after participating in the Gracie Challenge back in the early 90's).
Fred Ettish (who participated in UFC 2) was actually in a depression after finding out how limited his martial art was in a cage going against Johnny Rhodes that had a Karate background also and was an amateur boxer.
Keith Hackney was a Kenpo representative in the Early UFC, but had an amateur boxing background, trained in wrestling, Tang Soo Do, and Taekwondo. He didn't limit himself to one style.
I seen Kenpo instructor Larry Tatum martial art demos which techniques work in theory, but not in functional fighting. A lot of Dunning Kruger Effect (Martial Art McDojos) in the world of martial arts in terms of sticking to one system, and not freeing yourself to learning other systems.
Instead of talking rubbish and talking a load of crap, have a fight with a kempo black belt and then we'll talk.
Yours is just talk.
Done it many times. One could even argue that my kajukenbo black belt IS a kenpo black belt.
I just watched a video of Elvis doing a kenpo demonstration. Some one said this is proof Elvis was a black belt. Some one else said the Elvis demonstration was an embarrassment. I landed on this video to learn more about kenpo. After watching this video, I am convinced kenpo is an ineffective martial art form. This video was well done and explained "WHY" kenpo is "NOT" effective for self-defense. Thanks and looking forward to watching your other videos. Cheers!
He doesn't understand kenpo he thinks The techniques don't work shows you have no understanding of martial arts, Marcia arts techniques only work if you actually know how to do them properly, and executive and properly, And actually know how to execute them properly but also know how to fight. An only way to deal to deal all this is to actually practice them. There is No such thing a martial of a martial art that doesn't work there's no such thing there's only, Such thing as marsh artist who don't know how to make them work.... Fact he thinks they don't work shows his lack of ability to make them work Fact he thinks they don't work shows his lack of ability to make them work!
I’m a second degree black in kenpo. I agree with this video to a certain point. The technique s aren’t really useless. I actually had to use it one of my techniques in real life experience. It is called scimitar .
Using the higher advanced techniques too be honest it’s not really going happen. For me kenpo is a good foundation into martial arts I my opinion. I apply kenpo and the lessons I’ve learned from friends who study boxing ,kickboxing, judo, MMA, and Taekwondo.
Sparring with and doing actually full contact fights with them to learn how to apply everything in a real world situation against experience fighter.
Going against a real fighter chances everything and makes you adopt immediately.
The chances you being attacked by experience fighter is low. Most of the time it will be people that aren’t fighters attacking you. Muggers, drunks, people who think talk a lot but can’t back it up, idiots doing the knock out game ...etc Well at least here in south Florida.
But to say I’m going to end in fight with Conor McGregor , Jon Jones, Mike Tyson that’s not going to happen.
Box, wrestle, learn submission, forget kenpo, lot of absolute nonsense.
That Absolute nonsense has saved my ass because I know what really works and what does not work in a real life violent altercation. Wrestling on the ground ain't one of them when you're in it 6 deep the rules go out the window. Better to be Judged by twelve than to be carried by six
Reading the comments, a lot of Kempo BBs have been in a lot of street fights and used their kempo. As a BJJ BB, I don’t personally know any BJJ BBs that have ever used BJJ In the Streets as a black belt. I’ve seen video on TH-cam, but I don’t personally know those guys.
Almost anything can be deescalated with words, simply saying "I don't want any problems" or "I'm sorry" (when in the wrong) and walking away.
Fact is with Kenpo they say their techniques teach you how to deal with every attack but they don’t not at all….there’s so many vital moves they don’t teach you how to defend against. Leg kicks very basic no defence for them and it’s not even hard a basic Muay Thai check, elbows again no defence from that close range same with knees those are very basic attacks any thug can do yet Kenpo this big bad ultimate self defence art has nothing to stop them. Another one head butts or clinch defence. Not silly bear hugs but the proper Muay Thai clinch again no defence and then of course there’s the whole ground game so yeah for these reasons a basic mma fighter will destroy most Kenpo guys because a lot of their best stuff Kenpo can’t defend against
I used to destroy Taekwondo guys in competition all the time, techniques against kicks are taught since day 1 in Kempo, it was my absolute bread and butter. Clinch defence again is taught at white belt, headbutt defence is taught, elbow defence oddly isn't taught. MMA wasn't a thing when I did Kempo but I fought against many different styles and my last fights was against a BJJ a few years in a street fight which I won using Kempo even though I haven't practices in a very long time. Kempo may be out of date but I have used it on the streets and in competition.
There is a million different styles of Kenpo. Some are just hand techniques. Some are very legitimate kickboxing styles. You need to train in everything to get a good understanding of everything, really
Kenpo works for me. Yes I have scars.
Block ..punch.. Reap leg&throw..finish with lock or punch...done!
I think that the solution to the problems you mentioned is well directed sparring sessions,
Mr. Raney had us do a lot of sparring, and it helped me (even though I was trying not to notice it ) to see how effective Kenpo Karate can be in a real fight.
I did practice Kenpo for 15 years and I also fought full contact fighting and the kenpo technique never came into play so basic fight tactics like what you do is what works
There are many great lessons to be learned with kenpo..flow, chambering your blocks/hits...move to strike ratios..endless variations...ect...but I added Wetzel silat training and some reality training and found that my Parker kenpo changed for the better...kenpos stances are too wide and the footwork is to clunky and lessen the techniques..i use kenpo hands with compressed silat/ Kung fu footwork for the springy leg energy and leg sectoring..which then u would kinda be looking at kuntao I guess...I think it's all about blending...being about to show different aspects...for me it's kenpo hands, Kung fu striking, aikido joint manipulation, silat footwork and takedown, sweeps, selective kicking, close quarter knees and elbow technique...ect....not staying so loyal to one system to where your locked in(a lot of kenpo kinda promotes that tbh)..ultimately I think kenpo needs to be modernized and trimmed up to be a leaner and meaner system. But really, cross training in the arts is where it's at..imo
Blocks, you learn that in boxing, footwork too, add in wrestling and submission and well, my moneys on that guy over any kenpo master. There is a reason kenpo is not popular in the ufc
I'm a 2nd Dan in Kenpo, I went a much different way after that . There are certain things I still LOVE about Kenpo and even use . My take is first, it's not so much that it's to use against untrained people as it is to be used within a certain window of time. BEFORE things turn into a squared off fight . You go from 0 to 100 and and apply constant pressure so the attacker never gets a chance to recover . I think thats a solid concept for any style. Second , I find it a fascinating way to pass on an art , by teaching formalized techniques . As an amateur historian I would love to know where some of them really come from, and stuff like that . I look at Kenpo like this now: It's a library full of short stories that I can pull off a shelf , have a read , and see if theres a concept or moral there that I can apply to my everyday practice. But thats because of all that I learned AFTER I took Kenpo . I'm not bound to the movements at all now because I'm not seeking rank. All I care about is the reaction they can cause against my opponent . It would be fun to take 5 different martial artists and teach them the same technique then have them break it down it do it their own way . My biggest complaint besides a lot of the independent arm movements and overly complicated footwork was the lack of repetitive drills like you see in many other arts . For me those are what help me actually apply what I do in free form . But then I've only trained in one Kenpo style at 1 school so I'm far from an expert on how it's done elsewhere.
I've done Kenpo for a number of years and I think it's a good style for teaching basic fundamentals such as fluidity and controlling an opponents movements. That said if I were to be in a fight I'd fall back on a style such as Boxing for it's relative simplicity. But that's just me.
Shotokan and Kyokushin. These two styles of karate have dominated UFC. They are quite capable of beating boxing. Kickboxers are quite capable of kicking boxers
@@hungrykittie5103Yeah, I would definitely go with a style that has kicks. And knows how to hit below the belt.
Ed Parker student Steve Golden, one of the “kempo defectors” who left him for Bruce Lee, made a comparison of the arts I’m probably mangling, lol, but made sense to me. He said where JKD was about figuring out simple answers to whatever problems presented themselves in a combat situation, kenpo was about memorizing a detailed answer to every possible combat problem. He was very diplomatic by not saying one way was better than another, just different, but I know which one I’D pick, lol.
Question: Kenpo vs Kenpo... who would win? Answer: None. Both are waiting for the other to start so they can perform five swords, or raining claw, or shielding hammer...
Kenpo techniques are not Kenpo, they are examples of it, and not always the best examples. Good instructors know this, but there are LOTS that say “the techniques work as taught”.
FWIW, I am a kenpo black belt and I agree with what you are saying.
I think you just explained my premise better than me
As a student of Kenpo on and off for almost 30 years I can understand this point of view. I have always looked at techniques at lower belt levels as actual self-defense technique someone grabs your shoulders from behind you instinctively move a certain way. I also think it teaches you body mechanics how body parts move or doesn't move and how to move somebody. I work in a job where you have to put hands on people, some of the body mechanics I've learned in Kenpo work. Now I have to admit I have never performed Dance of Death out in the field, but basic arm bars and shoulder locks, yes. My problem came when I got up past green belt, I felt like some of the techniques were getting flashier for the sake of being flashy. Twist stances = Nope. Middle knuckle punches, why not just punch. Or some crazy reverse crescent kick to the kidney when a much simpler and more effective kick to opponents knee would suffice, it just doesn't look as cool.
I have also taught people self defense basic strikes and was blown away on how many grown adults could not make a proper fist and throw punch using their body. SO any martial art that gets you moving and learning the basics is great. IF a technique gets you moving I think your ahead of the guy who just freezes up.
That’s always been my point about kenpo. There are certainly universal movements that work, regardless of what style you learn them in (arm bars, shoulder locks)
That being said, there are GOOD ways to practice/learn those movements, and there are BAD ways. Simple, direct patterns and drills will always be preferable to techniques that aren’t based on realistic attacks or reactions.
There are also fantasy based movements that only work in a training setting. Focusing on middle knuckle punching instead of the whole fist. Sure, you can hurt someone with the middle knuckle but…is it any better than a regular fist? Maybe, maybe not. Is it a more natural shape to make with your hand? No. So why not stick with the more natural, higher result yielding practice method?
I don’t hate kenpo, I just think the higher level techniques are based on looking cool rather than practical application.
@@CombatSelfDefense 100% agree. I think a middle knuckle punch can result in breaking your middle finger, a fist is more natural and safer. My other problem with a lot of traditional martial arts is they lost their cardo training, which years ago wasn't the case. So many schools today are about teaching an art and lost the "workouts" associated with it. That is a really bad practice because sometimes who ever outlast ..wins. I have seen more more exceptions in schools of boxing and Muay Thai, some Judo and Jujitsu schools where there are pretty intense workouts.
The middle knuckles and various odd striking are part of what is called category completion which means you will probably use straight punch or practical weapon but it was inserted to understand motion by doing strike up down backwards forward reversed or configuration etc hence complete category Most students in American kenpo seem to miss of lack understanding and definitely wont get it by just observing it. You learned Q in alphabet though it not used in mass vocabulary like vowels and consonants it still part of the basics to create responses communication in vocabulary just as in music you may never use certain note with accidentals(flats/sharps) but those are to create proper steps in construction of song
Back to American kenpo specifically ( not some offshoot in name only) parker purposely adds mistakes for student to understand value of strike movement etc wouldn’t work the forms have plenty done wrong to question breaking rules principles of motion which what AK is based
If you were to modify Kenpo techniques so they were more directly applicable to fighting, does it more closely resemble another martial art now?
I think you have a couple options.
1. You would break down the longer techniques into shorter, more likely responses (which could result in hundreds of various self defense techniques)
Or
2. You reduce the techniques to 1-3 movements per technique, and they would more closely resemble Motobu Choki’s 12 Karate Drills
OR
3. You allow the “attacker” to throw more than one punch at a time. Now however we’re getting into two/three step sparring, which has its own host of problems.
@@CombatSelfDefense I think all of these are good ideas. There's a problem with making the attacker throw only one attack. It doesn't match real life at all.
I think students when learning something have to take it slow.
So maybe, as you said, the sequences should be broken down.
Attackers could attack with something like touch boxing.
Slow touches at first, maybe students would work their defences first... Then they might pick ONE technique from the chain. Maybe the attacks should be prearranged till the student gets a feel for the technique...like in wrestling drills...
Practice an individual technique slowly against a known attack ...drill it till you understand it intellectually and also physically.
Then try applying it in a more free form situation..a la boxing or wrestling.
I think that'd be the ticket..teaching martial arts...in a similar fashion to the way they do boxing, wrestling or other combat sports.
@@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729 In the ideal phase of Kenpo the object is to limit the opponent to one attack and be out of the situation in a matter of seconds. Who really wants to trade with someone? I do agree that watching someone stand there and receive multiple strikes and not do anything looks ridiculous. Unfortunately it's a bad demonstration by the attacker. The attacker is supposed to be manipulated into different positions caused by pain compliance from each of the different Kenpo strikes in response to the initial attack. We used to call people just standing there "stone statues".
Kenpo techniques, practiced over and over, teach an alphabet of motion. In a defensive situation, strikes and blocks are deployed on an instinctual level which may or may not resemble any of the techniques practiced. These techniques, practiced over the years will “pattern” your nervous system and integrate themselves within all of your movements and psyche. Yes, Kenpo works.
All hypothetical
I'd like to see a TH-cam video of this guy vs Mr Dan . I'm sure his perspective would be changed.
My guy, are you trying to challenge two OTHER people, who aren’t you, to fight?
@@CombatSelfDefense I'm not the one criticizing my boy. You think kenpo don't work, I disagree.
Then shouldn’t YOU be offering to fight?
Why not?
@@CombatSelfDefense If I were in the US I would like to fight you. I am tired of people thinking that only Boxing (which I love) ,kick boxing and juijitsu are useful. These people who critize do not even have good technique and do not know how to move.
And awaaayy we go
1. Techniques - any sequential flow, outside of the three phases, that has a Response and Intent that is greater than the Catalyst and Intent.
Ri>Ci
Response/intent ~ the defender
Catalyst/intent ~ the attacker
A Catalyst is ant of the two types of attacks in the Webb of Knowledge
There are the NOW catalysts (attacks)
There are the When?Then catalysts (attacks)
NOW catalysts are seen in the family related catalysts of the Webb of Knowledge and are;
Punches, Kicks, Club, Knife, Gun types of attacks.
When?Then catalysts are chokes, hugs, holds, grabs. locks and so on.
The goal of kenpo is and always has been, whether the person teaching it for however long is, make the bad man stop trying to hurt you. The Three Phases of technique (I call them Patterns) have been misinterpreted for decades..
The system that is the 154 Self Defense Patterns is a metaphor of a chain of Islands that are linked from Delayed Sword to Twisted Rod. I learned them in the 80's as a unlinked chain of Islands and later found put what a mistake it is to just teach the moves to advance in rank.
2. Sparring - the snippets of actions that are tested against an opponent that does not want to be hit or kicked.
Kenpo has the Neutral Bow stance, very similar to many MA stances and our hows and whys cover the three dimensions as well as the dimension of time. SO, when two fighters face each other, their arms are placed in various heights and depths, their stances have evenly distributed weight on both feet, their focus is back dot on a white field, and, their goal is to put weapons to targets as quickly as possible and avoid the same being done to them
Once the fighter has stepped in to their fighting stance they have already (before the fight starts) com-oeted the Initial Sni[ppet of Action from a whole lot of kenpo techniques. Now that that is out of the way it becomes a dance to see who can hit or kick first with Accuracy, Speed and Power, in control of the weapons and their various methods, to targets that are available.
3. Testing the Snippets of Actions from Patterns when sparring is the test that begins early on. After achieving a yellow belt, the kenpo student should be able to use snippets of actions from at least five of the ten they learned to get their yellow belt. However, in commercial kenpo that is not the case and kick boxing methods are prevalent. Nothing wrong about that, but, their are boxing influences on kenpo that are not seen until someone points them out.
The SD Pattern says to "Step bak naturally to a right neutral bow", but the manual doesn't say how to step back, it talks pnly about the Established Square of Action that the pattern works in. Most of the pattens stay within that forst square of action to work through each Snippet of Action. That is why the attacker, will start their attack from the Within Contact Range and their catalyst is responded to in the ideal.
Well now, doesn't that make the catalyst an Ideal Phase Catalyst? Yes, yes it does. So, where does the pattern begin? Especially when it comes in the obscure zone (behind you), That's right! a NOW catalyst knocks you down and you get stomped. Does sparring cover that? Ask the guys who work the ground, they have answers that I don't. SO I will teach students how to roll forward and come out on their feet.
Do the patterns work in less than ideal circumstances, you know, flat ground, no obstacles, you see it coming and you know what method the kick or strike or grab or whatever is being used. Training this way ensures that the lesson within the patterns are ingrained to the point where the lessons are what is being expressed when sparring.
"Fighting stances, ready, FIGHT!"
Ahah, the sound of foam dipped protective gear sliding across a gym floor.
Step drags, and drag steps and pivoting on the ball pf the foot as the other leg kicks.
Bobbing, weaving and checking off your targets as you look for open targets on the opponent.
Controlling the gap by stringing together separate methods of footwork that open, maintain or close the gap.
Differentiating, in real time, the methods pf thrusting, hammering, whipping, snapping, round housing, hooking the possible combinations of strikes and kicks. In real time, did I mention that?
By the way, Sparring and Patterns are exactly the same, in Kenpo and in everything else that came before Ed Parker and now after Ed Parker. Dan doesn't have anymore answers than anyone else, but, he has a lot of views and that is how false histories continue to spread. It's been three decades now and You Tube hasn't exposed this fact. And I quote, "Time will either promote you or expose you".
Take Dan's words to heart, he hasn't stuck with any kenpo long enough to have anything but, an informed opinion about systems and curriculums, that look at the patterns as unrelated (unlinked) Islands of motion.
Patterns are not blueprints to be followed from foundation to finished product, they are blueprints of how and why the system is a Formulation from beginning to end. Not everyone is going to make it to the end, but, sticking with it until the end of purple belt (24 patterns per belt) will expose them to all of the sophisticated motions (not the choreographies) that EPAK has to teach.
Once I hit my fighting stance while sparring I have effectively moved through the Initial Snippet of Action and am poised to kick and strike, move and avoid and use the lessons within the patterns.
Go means go!
Clark
I didn't come to READ! Clark I came to watch videos. Are you Clark? ANYWAY! hope your book works out well.
Nothing is perfect in this life. All things have their flaws. Same holds true for styles of martial arts. All of them.
@@coltonwilie2761 hi, did you read that? Probably not. But at least we know you can read, and type, so, there's hope I guess. Yep, me Clark. Content maker here on YT. Can you say the same?
@@hankypankywhoopdydoo284 bro you’ve got two subscribers and no videos.
@@hankypankywhoopdydoo284 Should I reply. "No, Clarke I obviously can't say the name. Because my name is Colton not cluck and I don't make books"
The opening of this alone shows a complete ignorance of Kenpo. Frank Trejo had real world experience as well as an extensive ring resume. I have been in several real world situations as part of my on and off line of work. It works, but just like all other arts, including the flavor of the month everyone says is invincible, there are good and bad schools. Kenpo is taught like a language. If you don't train it that way you're no better than a 9 yo blah blah blah black belt.
At least Master Ken is funny.
I am so tired of immature martial artist comparing arts and saying one is better than the other. I am a Shodan in Shorinji Kempo and have defended myself both as a corrections officer (10 years) and hospital security guard Present). Kenpo was made for the common man to defend himself. I have seen Gracie jujutsu people get wiped by thugs.l think as always an arts effectiveness depends on circumstances, personnel and the element of surprise. So you kenpoka karateka, judo and wrestlers continue to practice the art you love. Just practice it in Ernest. It will work. Don’t box a boxer if you do not know boxing. Also, if so called practical arts are so good, why has there been a huge emergence of traditional schools? I am proud of my kempo black belt.
@@jakecollins4545 not as many as you say. Why so much enimity?
@@allennoland7551,
Many had been wiped out.
As a Kenpo black belt, this makes so much sense, I really love how educated and articulated your ideas are on this! Made me think outside the box!
Your no Black belt !!
@@goldstandard9329word
Even if the full technique worked... If someone throws a single punch and you block, punch, kick, headbutt, do a wristlock, throw, choke them out and procede to stomp on them thats a bit much
I hold the rank of 5th Dan in Kenpo. I agree with what you are saying, there are other more realistic ways of training. What I teach is Kickboxing and practical self-defense, and I added a belt ranking system: White, Yellow, Green, Brown, Black. I call it Freestyle Kickboxing.
And how do you train a weenie like me who is 5'5" and built like a frail woman? I have a 3rd degree brown belt in Kenpo and its great for handing it to a mugger to choke me with (no hand print bruises no evidence for a case...just like in prison). I never survived any fight (lots & lots & lots of street fights) using Kenpo or kickboxing. It was more Aikijutsu than anything. Remember, little skinny weak guys like me can't hammer like you born big tough guys. Our sexy little wrists that turn thugs on will break when we punch if we rely on American self defense schools practical or not. Backs against the wall, historically accurate fighting systems are the only answer...unless you're a big guy!
Kenpo, TKD, boxing, bjj as well as Japanese jujitsu , Judo, Aikido. It all works. How you practice is the question.
You can water down any art. And you can make any art street efficient if you train it that way.
He's thinking too hard about this. I'm a black belt in Kenpo and the technique is meant to be an exercise, not meant for a street fight. It's meant to give you an idea of what you can/should do if you're in a scenario.
How does the kenpo differ in kajukenbo? Is it not taught with set techniques?
In general, kajukenbo is a lot less loosely organized. There’s no real set curriculum every single school has to follow. The most popular version of Kajukenbo looks pretty similar to American kenpo, but there’s no phases, there’s no real named techniques, but we do have similar kata and the techniques are usually just as long
@@CombatSelfDefense How do you think Kajukenbo delivers the techniques better than American kenpo, to not fall in the trap of being the crossfit of martial arts? Everything you said in the video definitely hit home for me. I trained kenpo for 4 years and any time I tried to pressure test it I couldn't get it to work. It was like brain overload trying to process hundreds of techniques to figure out how to react, especially when the attack wasn't your typical cooperative step through punch. I've always wondered if there was a better delivery system to make kenpo work.
@@PremiumTrader I don’t think kajukenbo does it any better. I consider Kaju an offshoot of kenpo and any school that practices 4-10 responses to one strike and calls it self defense techniques is out of touch and needs to revamp their teaching methods. Note I don’t think there’s anything wrong with any given style, just its training methods
Most people spend time talking about the techniques, to me ultimately it comes down to timing.
Can you elaborate on that a bit?
My kenpo instructor always said: Precision beats power, and timing beats technique. Every time.
@@mitsk2002 that is a Mcgregor quote 😂😂
@@-logic6654 Oh wow I never knew! Thanks!
@@-logic6654 lmaoo
I coached boxing in the Navy and the way we taught the basic skills was much as this video recommended. We went over basic skills/drills, i.e., parrying a punch, to begin learning the basics...then quickly moved to practicing during actual live sparring. The emphasis was always on applying the skill in an actual competitive situation. In my opinion, that's by far, the best way to really grasp how to perform the skill in conjunction with all the other elements of the sport.
Man I really appreciate the discussion and points you covered so clearly in this vid. Thank you so much for sharing such a valuable perspective on this branch of martial arts. I trained as a kenpo martial artist for over 4 years and loved my instructor. These points all ring true to a degree and are fascinating to ponder.
Thank you so much! Glad you liked it.
Umm, what did he say that hasn't been said for 30 plus years?
The entire purpose of Kenpo‘s techniques are to teach a set of principles. Controlling the distance, angle, spatial relation are some of the first concepts. Additionally, the techniques are designed to instill one’s coordination enough to defend and counter attack, thereby seizing control of the situation as it unfolds. Every technique has an entry, a follow up, and finishing moves or takedowns in some cases and every Kenpo student understands that the technique is designed to teach how to flow through these different phases of a self-defense situation smoothly without stopping, without hesitation and without allowing the opponent to regain the advantage. Furthermore, the techniques do teach multiple defenses of the same attack but since it is never taught that one must use a technique as it is taught but simply understand the principles that it teaches as well as build the coordination of flowing from one move to the other next without pause or hesitation therefore increasing speed, we are able to gain and retain the advantage open to the point of takedown but that the way we practice it doesn’t necessarily mean any real world situation will unfold exactly as any technique is taught. One may do the entry from one technique but because of the attacker reacting to particular strikes or counter strikes differently, skills learned across an entire scope of techniques simply allow one to flow with what is happening in the moment. The way we get around Hicks Law, which is the principle where in too many choices creates inaction is that the techniques are drilled to the point of being almost subconscious reactions infused with muscle memory. When you take in to consideration that Kenpo has plenty of various drills used to build spontaneity and that we also practice grafting where in you use completely spontaneous reactions working from the principles taught from techniques without actually using a full technique in its ideal phase, you begin to produce a martial artist that can operate benefiting from all the principles and concepts Kenpo has the offer without the restrictions of trying to move within established routines. Essentially, our techniques, sets and forms are a vehicle or the essence of the art is learned and practiced to get the student to a destination but Kenpo in its purest form is an always will be an instantaneous and spontaneous reaction to a threat we’re in the students movements and counters are instinctive yet appropriate for the unique threat they are being presented with at the time they’re attacked. By comparison there are martial arts out there that expect their self defense techniques, which may be less complex than ours, be used as is from start to finish. That is not the purpose of our techniques. Our techniques are a teaching tool and the only Kenpo artists that truly need to memorize all of them are the ones who want to turn around and teach the art as they were taught. To be a skilled practitioner, one only memorize the techniques they’re going to be tested on and then typically forgets the specifics of the technique until it comes around again but learns everything it has to offer and principles and concepts. Another way at looking at the way I Kenpo technique unfolds is that many of the more advanced principles and concepts are the way that these techniques are designed to control an opponent. It’s not just a barrage of speed striking but each and every target and follow up target have a degree of specificity as that each target and strike creates a reaction in the opponent which feeds the next action of the Kenpo artist. Many have described Kenpo as controlling the opponent in away somewhere that jujitsu does but utilizing strikes instead of grappling.
To follow onto my previous comment, many people think the best way to pressure test hey systems self defense techniques is in the ring. This is simply not true. If a system has self-defense techniques that involve taking joint locks beyond appoint of pain compliance and are intentionally destroying the wrist, elbow, shoulder or have strikes designed to break or hyperextended knee backwards, claw and I gouge, then you’re dealing with an art that has techniques that cannot be pressure tested in the ring and would only realistically be able to be pressure tested in real combat as it applies to the battlefield or real world self-defense situation. Kenpo has been proven on the battlefield and in real self-defense situations. There are plenty of people out there that have utilized it in real world situations, myself being among them because I entered the army as a prior service Marine ended up serving with 10th SFGA, Later on with 19th SFGA and have pressure tested the principles and concepts of kenpo in real world combat scenarios and have found these principles and concepts to not only be valid and real but highly functional. And, what was pressure tested was the pure essence of Kenpo itself which is a tailored spontaneous immediate reaction to a threat that does not follow the established routine of any one specific self-defense technique because as I said in the main post or comment, the techniques are vehicle to teach certain principles and concepts as well as build strength, endurance and coordination, teach continuous flow while pressing the advantage all the way until it take down or finishing move can be delivered that actually finishes them off. The reality of most people who are skilled in Kenpo that end up having to defend themselves as they walk away with a sense of disappointment that the person they used Kenpo on went down within a couple of moves and they never got to use any rapid flowing follow-through‘s. One of the reasons Camp techniques do get as complex as they are is simply the principle of not putting all your eggs in one basket. I.e., we never wanna make the assumption that any target struck is going to have the effect we want it to have. Maybe they’ve had reconstructive surgery because of nerve damage so striking into the carotid nerve doesn’t have the effect it would on a normal person. Maybe they throw punch and we deliver a block that is also a strike to the radial nerve, which most people react to immediately, but it may not have that reaction in our attacker. Maybe they’re wearing something that dissipates a shot delivered to what is normally a vital target and they simply don’t react to it. Rather than waiting to see if they react or not, we are simply taught to immediately follow up with something else which feeds into something else etc. etc. but, if within the first couple of moves the appropriate reaction is what we get, then the attacker is going down. To those who would argue that Kenpo trains for overkill, we counter that for saying that we train for over skill acknowledging that a giving situation may require us to dial it back, which is almost always the case. Even me that has used the art against armed assailants wearing body armor and experienced maybe one or two shots not necessarily being affective, inevitably that rapid flow of strikes while moving in and taking their position with follow up strikes landing in other vital areas not protected by body armor, I was effective at what I did and the art was definitely providing me a return on investment, that investment being all that time spent training techniques but also mentioning that our techniques are enhanced with forms sets and training drills, many of those drills being ones focused on spontaneity training. It’s not fair to isolate techniques by themselves when they are meant to be a smaller part of a larger curriculum
@@paulcanchola6377 I enjoyed reading your response, especially since you have successfully used kenpo in military situations.
@ Paul Canchola, I love what you are saying man, so true.
I'm from Cape Town South Africa and grew up in a pretty dangerous and violent area(well alot of areas are dangerous and violent and gang infested).
Kenpo has saved my life more than once, by just using the basics after 7 years of training. It's real self defense not organized fighting in a ring with rules. Also very importantly, it helps you deal with more than 1 attacker.
I don't think the guy doing this video understands Kenpo really however is entitled to his opinion.
Where I'm from the mutha F*ckers on the street and in prisons are evil(do some research on most dangerous gangs and prisons in the world). I've recently started kenpo Jiu-Jitsu and works well together however u can't roll in these streets because while u busy with 1 guy on the ground his friend will be busy kicking ur head in or stabbing the shit out of u, but if u defending yourself against 1 guy then I suppose it's ok lol...
When picking apart a specific style that you don't practice you risk sounding foolish. It is never the style, it is the fighter.
"When picking apart a specific style that you don't practice you risk sounding foolish. It is never the style, it is the fighter."
No, this idea that's all about the fighter is wrong. The style is how you train. What you practice, how you practice it, that's the style. If the style didn't matter, then anyone off the street could make up their own martial art and it would be as effective as every other style.
@Jake Collins I have practiced kenpo for 11 years, boxing for 12 and now training jiujitsu. It is always the fighter.
You connot fight a trained person with knife or machete if you don't want to die period. Just walk away or run for your safety. 😅
It is funny though how quickly a sparring session gets paused after someone takes a kick to the balls or a limb gets hyperextended.
Again, nobody ever said the individual movements don’t work.
@@CombatSelfDefense ...but you did say that it shows the real skill of the martial art. Sparring is great for timing and distance, but typically ignores good targets for self defense.
@@michaelhoulton5113 if you can't land a clean punch to someone's nose, you can't land a poke to the eyes. If you can't kick the inside of someone's thigh, you can't kick them in the groin. Yes, a groin strike has the potential to end a sparring round/fight, but how often is that PURPOSEFUL and executed by people who spend more time practicing targeting those "good targets for self defense" rather than combat sports?
@@CombatSelfDefense We always practice groin shots purposely in Kenpo and then we go on to the next move made available by the reaction to the groin shot. In sparring, if the session isn't stopped, you look for another target that most likely wouldn't be the follow-up for a groin shot, so I respectfully disagree that sparring is similar to practicing self defense sequences. Not saying there is no value to sparring (timing, critical distance, etc.), just not the same.
It might of been just me, but when I trained for 2 years and ended on blue belt training, my instructor used different variations of sparring. One method was called the 1-2-3 method, where I would do 3 offensive moves, and they would react with 3 blocks simultaneously. Then what ever position we landed in we would freeze in. From there we would switch and then they would do 3 offensive moves well I would block all 3. He said the idea was to start training the brain to think quicker and ahead of time for your next 3 moves and from there you would mix portions of one technique with another all depending on the position the other would be in. Since in real life people won't always swing how you want when you hit them and all. I didn't realize this wasn't a normal approach from traditional dojo's when it came to training with Kenpo(I was trained by someone who obtained their black belt through one on one classes)
The argument that Kenpo/Kung Fu/Krav/Wing Chun/ etc. doesn't work aways breaks down in the simple defining of sparring versus real world defense. There are a ton of black belts that are great point fighters that have never fought a real street fight. Things on the street happen so fast and with such random violence that it can take even the most trained dojo fighter by surprise. Simple grappling moves along with boxing/kick boxing is the best combo out there to prepare for a real fight. Most of the rest is just patty-cake for points.
Hey Rob, love your channel. I have a couple ideas to consider in defense of Kenpo.
First I'll admit I'm as inexperienced as they come. I've been training in Kenpo about 3 or 4 hours now and have watched 3 times that in martial arts videos.
But perhaps knowing nothing may provide some fresh eyes on the problem.
To me, a 10 hit attack would only work in a street fight and in no other scenerio. This ideal attack would almost work exclusively on the untrained fighter whose concept of fighting is nearly completely limited to punching someone in the face.
Consider the simple but effective technique I'm learning called, Lever. The very first move involves breaking someone's elbow, followed by two elbows to the face that would knock someone unconscious.
You'll never land 10 perfect blows on a trained fighter, especially in a tournament or sparing setting b/c that would always result in broken bones and concussions. That is the only way to get the body to comply with the next attack.
The sequence would end and very possibly the opponents life.
Just my 2 cents. Thanks for your input.
I believe also that it depends on the individual. My friend practices Tiger kung fu, Wushu and Feng Shou (Hans of the wind). He had about 10 street fights and fights in pubs and fights in the ring an he has never lost. He did extract portion of katas and use that in fights and it worked. But we trained for survival and not sport. We spar, do wights, bag work and train in self defense and we hot and get hit.
The dojo where I trained Kenpo 5.0 is with drills, kata's, forms, combat models, conditioning and sparring.
The sparring was fullcontact though but not full force ofcourse more like 70 % but sometimes harder though. 😉
5.0 stands for the times the kenpo evolved because of the different styles of fighting.
Kenpo 5.0 will learn you how to fight standing and how to fight on the ground with bjj. There are many types of kenpo.
Jeff Speakman the guy in the video is more badass than he looks.
He always said: To hear is to doubt, to see is to be decieved but to feel is to believe .
Yes Kenpo works, but it’s only once piece of the pie. Kenpo is literally the Krav Maga of traditional martial arts, meaning it was created for use in war. And yes you can use it against trained fighters. But Kenpo still has its holes like every art. I have been a student of the Tracy system of Kenpo since the 90’s. I have used this art throughout my life in altercations. Always works just as it was intended to.
Tracy’s Kenpo for me as well , I started in Tracy’s main school back around 1990 -2000 and stopped at 3rd Brown due to life taking me in a different direction. Joined the Army , had 1 tour in Afghanistan and when I got out settled and had a kid and then some more kids. Now I’ve started back to finish training to Black belt because my oldest son 23 and my youngest son 10 are training Kenpo now. Rodney Finn trained me when I was younger and now his brother Steve is training me and my sons. I’m a Tracy’s Kenpo lifer and have never had a problem taking care of shit on the street. Peace
I agree with you. The problem is that in many martial arts there are instructors who seem realistic but actually respond with at least 2 moves on one of the opponent's. This is already unrealistic.
Uh...you said Kenpo techniques are "defined as a long sequence of techniques" . That's not a definition. That's a description. Also, your argument re martial artists being skilled amateurs is false. When we say martial arts are for dealing with ruffians...we aren't talking about either martial artists or Pro fighters. We are talking about people who've never trained a day in their lives ..the majority of people. You can't randomly create a definition and say, "Oh Kenpo doesn't address the definition..I just created... therefore it doesn't work." That's not fair ...it's intellectually dishonest.
Also talking about sequence and asking if a sequence will apply in a real situation is kinda unfair.
I can put together a sequence in any activity as a training excercise...people have direct experience with things like that in science labs in school.
A physics lab is sequence of tasks that is put together to impart knowledge of and practice in the application of physics principles. Now, when we apply physics in our daily lives will we do everything as we did in that lab? Probably not. We'd probably apply individual techniques from that sequence.
The ones that best apply to the situation or the ones we understand the best
It's unfair to suggest that a sequence doesn't work because a person doesn't apply the sequence as is.
I might watch someone shadow box and decide to copy them to better appreciate shadow boxing .
But if I step in a ring there's no way that I'll use that sequence as is...in the way that it was done....I'll most likely pick things from the sequence that applied...maybe I'll be slipping punches ..or maybe I'll work my jab. But there's no way that I'll do the entire sequence blindly to a live opponent. The sequence is just a textbook and I take what I need from it..when I need it.
Another thing you're missing is that the techniques in sequence probably aren't meant to apply to long range fighting.
Lots, most techniques done in Karate/Kung Fu forms are meant to be done in grappling style combat .
So if you're going to apply them to long range combat ....some modification is necessary.
Also ...when we learn boxing... we'll learn jabs...hooks.. whatever...we may find that the way we punch in practice might be a little different from the way we apply the technique..nothing wrong with that.
I think that's normal...we adjust to situations.
I agree
lol, love the Bujinkan choreography comment. I've been in the Bujinkan 20+ years and I agree, most of it has become conceptual training and larping now. People used to be expected to go apply it in a lively form on their own but nobody does. Such a shame because there is some fantastic stuff in the system.
There are still bujin peeps that train correctly. But there are a lot that think they can be Hatsumi without first doing the development he did. You cant skip the evolution process and have good results
Your cross training reference is MORE than adequate. You're CORRECT. EXACTLY CORRECT but I learned to use our choreographed techniques as a WELL to draw water from not a blueprint. Incidentally GSP, Chuck Liddell, Ron Vanclief, Benny Urquidez and Steve Muhammad are Kempo jutsu trained as was Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. YOU MAKE WHATEVER TF YOU do effective or not styles and systems don't mean shit. A punch is a punch a kick is a kick irregardless and in the BEST Kempo jutsu schools you WILL BLEED. I don't GAF what someone else who NEVER used Kempo jutsu SD to literally save their ASS your opinion means NOTHING to me. ALL genuine article martial arts and sciences have merit and VALUE. 🙏🏼🐉🐅
My definiition of a Parker Kenpo technique: A series of moves against a specific line or lines of attack to illustrate one or more principles of motion.
I agree w ArtofOneDojo that they can also be thought of as katas. The idea for me is to drill the moves until the become extemporaneous. Because of the complexity of the concepts it takes some time, but once understood these concepts can be applied to any martial art, which I did during the 1990's when I spent much time giving Kenpo seminars to various schools of other systems. Like some others sharing their experience here, my own includes security work, bouncing in a bar, MMA competition, law enforcement, and military. In each of these instances applying and teaching the principles of motion found in Kenpo was met with much success. When I saw my first Kenpo class with Huk Planas I'd already spent 15 years studying threee different styles of martial arts. This background allowed me to appreciate the sophistication of the Kenpo system all the more and I remember thinking this is what I've been looking for. I have gone on to study other systems including BJJ and Kali, but always find that incorporating the principles of Kenpo shores up any gaps. I once asked Dan Inosanto in 1988 which martial art he thought was the best and his response was basically the one that worked best for the individual. I think this is a truism. Enjoy the Journey...
Stephen Thompson uses Kenpo skills in his fights in MMA. He moves with displacements of Kenpo.
I've noticed that in his fights. He's one of my favorite UFC fighters.
Wherever you got your idea of Kenpo, L.
Kenpo is meant to defend your life, not for games.
A Kenpo fighter would disarm his opponent extremely fast by breaking a limb, damaging the throat, or stabbing an eye.
Knee strikes to vital areas Elbows strikes to vital Areas, full power stomp kicks and spinning back fists.
1 proper connection, and you will be down. Kenpo is not dancing.
How come most KENPO practicioners are MOSTLY ALL FAT BELLIED especially the advanced Blackbelts?
So. Let me tell you a story now. I was on an MTA Bus in the Bronx, New York area headed to my dojo class. When someone started a fight. Tried to ignore the individual when boarding the same bus. When my stop came up. I was attacked when exiting the bus. Applied the technique GRASP OF DEATH. Fight was over. Headed to class. Never explained it to my SIFU. Technique worked. What?
Four posts to make point, and when you use a phrase like GRASP OF DEATH (emphasis yours) you make a statement. And that statement is one of dishonesty. You may as well try claiming the Dim-Mak is real.
I take it you went to Bronx Kenpo?
@@robertsomma7935
That's correct. Mr. Somma.
@@raymondpinsky1103 so.....how are you/ how have you been?
@@robertsomma7935 I am fine. Moving along with life. Hope. All is well with you. Was reading Todd Durgan's book on the universal pattern. Watched a few videos of you at the seminars in vegas.