Hi Jesse 😁🙏🙏🙏 Just wanted to know how different Wado Ryu is to Wado Kai? Because I trained in Wado Kai and it had no locks or juijutsu but more strike based like shotokan!!
Honestly Goju Ryu pairs really well with Muay Thai, I was able to keep up with a Muay Thai gym for the most part with my prior Goju experience They got me in the clench though 😅
I've only learned basic striking, Throws, chokes, misc. And just knowing basics of many different styles, I feel like that's all you truly need to build n effective artstyle.
Currently practicing Kyokushin and love it, just wish it didn't have the flaws mentioned. Old-school Kyokushin did have face punches but Oyama's insistence on being a bare-knuckle style meant lots of injuries in sparring so they eventually dropped it rather than adopting gloves. Then after Oyama passed Kyokushin split off into a bunch of different factions with different rules and standards. Still love it for it's focus on building tough fighters, just gotta make sure I take a few boxing classes on the side.
Kyokushin is one of the few styles that are effective, it teaches you how to fight in close quarters as well which is not easy. The issue with it is the lack of distance management and in and out fighting and the obvious not punching the face issue. My advice would be this, learn some Muay Thai as well, it fixes those problems for you and is not too far in principal from Kyokushin, you would also learn how to clinch, use your elbows and knees more efficiently and manage your distance.
The point is calibrate and adapt. That is why there is Kyokushun base kickboxing of Mejiro gym by Sensei Kurosaki Kenji which later formed the foundation of Dutch kickboxing of Mejiro, Vos gym etc. Seidokaikan rules allow clinching to throw knee kicks and leg catch to sweep. Most K1 kickboxers are Kyokushin and Seidokaikan fighters and they do very well.
My Kyokushin training started in 1980. We definitely DID face punch! We knew there were schools that focused more on knockdown competition but there were still plenty of Kyokushin schools who stressed tradition and practical self-defense too. My sensei didn't have a high opinion of schools that focused only on the sport aspects 🙄 Yes very tough fighters but he used to shake his head about it. ''On the street'', he would tell us, ''you're going to get punched in the face''! I've seen comments suggesting cross-training. Once we made it to brown belt we were encouraged to cross-train. But not just to learn how to face punch or defend against it. We were already doing that 😉 Part of being a well-rounded martial artist is understanding other martial arts. When you do you will find many similarities but also you will learn other approaches and ways of thinking. Being flexible didn't just mean being able to do the splits, having a flexible mind and being capable of thinking outside the box was important too! Learning other martial arts or about them, will help you do that. Osu!
I thought his analysis of my style was pretty good except he is wrong when he says that there was no sparring in my style. We sparred in every class and even had weekly sparring events against other schools.
Kudo definitely needs to become more popular. It's pretty much MMA with japanese martial arts aesthetic. I have trained it and can guarantee that it would be really interesting to see in western style MMA
When I was training at the Academy of Okinawan Karate in Peoria IL we trained in both Shuri-Ryu karate and Judo but we didn't train them together, they were separate classes but were both a requirement for the black belt exams.
I used to be a practitioner of gujo ryu for many years in my younger days and in my opinion it deserves A. The practical real word use and application of chokes and grapples gives it an edge over other ‘strike’ only styles.
did it for many years (had no choice as my uncle was the sensi), moved away for uni started training Kudo and BJJ when I was there at a local MMA gym, actually finding myself going back to Gōjū now mostly because as I get deeper into my 30s I'm more into training for fun and not the hammering you take from Kudo comps. It gave me a good base for Kudo actually.
@@jasonvoorhees8899 Yes, I think kudo is a lot like a Japanese Sambo or like sports Jujitsu when I was younger I grew up doing Goju like I said but also Jitsu foundation (Shorinji Kan Jiu Jitsu). For me Kudo is like a full contact version of Jitsu foundation jiu jitsu.
Chuck Norris started doing that back in the mid 1960s. He combined Korean Tang Soo Do (kicks) with Japanese Shotokan, Shito-ryu, Shudokan (punches) and judo and some hapkido (grappling). In 1988 he met the Gracies and around 1990 implemented jiu-jitsu (newaza) into his system. Now his group is doing something with Krav Maga also. People can make jokes about him all they want, but the guy was always ahead of most of the pack And he was doing this before he met Bruce Lee so he was cross training before whatever influence Lee had on him.
I practice Isshin-Ryu, the reason why it became so popular in the US is because Tatsuo Shimabuku taught the style to American soldiers who were stationed in Okinawa. After the war, the soldiers returned home and opened their own dojos overseas. I definitely recommend reading more about Tatsuo and Isshin-Ryu, interesting history and origin
Couples years past post date but why not lol. I've been practicing American isshinryu for 8 years now. Made sho Dan in July 2022. The history is fantastic. The OGs were some real bad ass dudes. Real men. Little known fact Robert marc kayman who created the "karate kid" studied isshinryu karate. I've been told that the character sensei kreese was loosely based off my sensei "grandfather" master McGrath. in his lineage his schools were heavy fighting. Little emphasis upon kata. It has changed nationally (unfortunately) but I am very proud to say my representative dojo stuck more to the kumite style rather then kata. I would love to see a prime American isshinryu fighter stack against the top dogs of this list. I believe it to be a hidden gem and hugely underated style in it's prime of emergence. Legend has it master Don Nagel (who originally brought isshinryu to America) had faster hands then Bruce Lee himself... 15th
I'm technically a Third Degree Brown Belt in Isshinryu, but I fight more like 3rd degree black belt. I can win a fight against any Isshinryu second degree black belt anyway. I suck at Kata so I always failed my Kata portion of my black belt test, which is why I never got promoted to black belt.
Many years now since post date. Sam dan here in Isshin-ryu. I work out and train under one of the first generation Sensei Tatsuo practitioners, a marine that learned from the founder. When you get to the core of what original Isshin-ryu is, it becomes apparent that it is karate street fighting. The modifications to Shorin-ryu were all designed to be street-fight adaptations. Even all the weapon katas are adapted to be street fights. Fantastic history of the art. (BTW I've practiced many styles, but this is my favorite for punch blocks, strikes to the joints, and weapons [tonfa, staff, sai]).
I‘ve heard very mixed things about Isshin-Ryu. One practitioner’s interpretation on the style tends to be the polar opposite to what another practitioner told me. Seems to me that it’s largely a victimization of being watered down to a point where it’s indistinguishable.
I actually train Kyokuahin and I can tell you it is hard full contact fights in Sport version where the rule set bans head punches. However kicks to the head are allowed. In training, head punches are taught for defence purposes, and we are taught what is required to end a fight quickly for defence. Lastly for black back we are required to demonstrate stamina in full contact sparring under the rule set. We do have Kata, but it is now massive focus with some instructors, but it is on others
I fought a couple of karate guys back in college. I have a black belt in tkd, but this was tkd as it was in the 80s and 90s, before it transformed ‘foot tag’ as a sport / mcdojo bullshit. The karate guys did wado ryu and kyokushin. Was interesting seeing how those systems fought. I was in a t-shirt and jeans and have always fought like a kickboxer. The wado ryu guy was in full sparring gear. He kept punching me in the nuts. The kyokushin guy just wore a gi and was kinda traditional. We were all black belts and had fun with it.
Wado Guy here, we do some intense training at times. Body shots, and I've been punched a lot in the face by accident. Glad to see y'all rated it high. We do do throws, but no actual ground fighting. A judoka will crush us
I used do Wado and I find it works beautifully when I mix it with BJJ in our MMA class. The distancing, the explosiveness, it opens up takedowns and scrambles which lead right into groundwork. The stance isn't too long and is really the stance a lot of MMA fighters now use.
Fellow Wado here. Quite relatable comment...^^ The jujutsu roots opens the door wide to complement easily with other styles to complete the skillset. And yh, when a judo guy has grabbed you, he origami's the **** out of you x)
I practice wado-ryu and I do a lot o ground work (newaza) and katamewaza, our work in our dojo of ground fighting is very good, sometimes I spare with some friends that are Bjj practioner and I can fight them pratty well... but that's my experience with wado-ryu
I might just wanna say something, with all the different organizations out there, kyokushinkan has face punches in shinken shobu ruleset. All the dojo under kyokushinkan train them. It was reintroduced. They have this shinken shobu tournaments where you can punch the face, elbow,sweeps you can use grappling and 10sec ground work.kudo like rules but no head gear only mma gloves. Hope you'll look it up.
Theres a lot of other glove karate styles too, shidokan, seidokaikan (which founded K-1) i think Kyokushinkaikan (the largest org) have started this too
After 50 years of Isshinryu training, numerous real fights and law enforcement service, my Isshin has never failed me! I think you need to raise the rating. I have trained several officers, with a lot of real life violence's and they also attest that Isshin was the best and most practical training that they received in their law enforcement careers.
@@snd7622 are you fucking retarded? he said he used it in LAW ENFORMENT, ie real fights that actually matter and don't have the rules of stupid tournaments. god damn what a stupid fucking post to make. hurrr duurrr muh mma muh tournaments. what a fucking clown.
@@FirstnameLastname-bn4gv He bring up worthless words about ,, numerous real fights''. 😆 Nothing real to verify like full contact tournaments. This guy is from fantasy world.
“Kyokushin doesn’t punch to the face” never gets old. Very true in tournament rules, not true as a whole in the style. Come on gentlemen. Loved the video none the less. Osu
@@charleyreaplay Kyokushin guys are tough and they can dish out some real punishment. I wouldn't want to fight someone who has trained any amount of time in it. Especially some of the Japanese training with the punching trees up to near full contact because their fists are so tough.
I definitely disagree with putting Shito-ryu below Shotokan. As opposed to Funakoshi who actively discouraged sparring, Mabuni Kenwa developed a wide variety of protective armour to be used in full-contact sparring. Traditional shito-ryu schools spar often in a variety of rulesets such as point, continuous point, full contact etc. That was probably the one you are most incorrect on IMO
Im a Kenpo black belt, but ive moved on from the style years and years ago. It was supposed to be a street version of Karate. I dont disagree with its placement here, but youve got to check out Jeff Speakmans Kenpo 5.0!! Master Parker wanted his students to adapt the art with the times, and mostly no one has at all, except Jeff Speakman. Ive never had the opportunity to train it but there is a lot of footage and info about it. He improved on all the old curriculum and added clinch, more takedowns, and tons of BJJ. It was designed with the mindset of beating an mma fighter in the street. Very cool looking. Love the videos and always learn something!!
Thank you for mentioning this! I love Speakman and is an incredibly great example of how Martial Artists SHOULD evolve their styles especially when they want to uphold Street Applicable reputation they’re so known for!
@@AVarStunts yep. With the sudden popularity of mma and some grappling styles traditional martial artists are gonna have to start drilling some takedowns defense as well as their other street fighting moves
You guys are funny. First of Im also a Kenpo Black Belt. So what big deal right. Well just understand one thing if you never trained in the art youre ranking than its arbitrary ranking at best. Oh and by the way Elvis Presley was a JOKE as far as KENPO goes. My instructor who was taught by Ed Parker and was his friend can tell you the real reason for his promotions. Ed Parker did teach him a LITTLE bit but his only real black belt in which he tested for and got his ass handed to him was in Shotokan Karate. Even Elvis's TKD black Belt (Dan) ranks were honorary.
Hey guys, interesting discussion. As a first dan in Hawaiian Kenpo, I just wanted to clarify a few things. 1. There is fundamentally no difference between kenpo or Kempo (unless you’re talking about Shorinji Kenpo which is very different to what most people refer to as kenpo since that has a Japanese lineage). The difference in the spelling is simply how the kanji is translated - both the N or M are correct. That’s it. 2. All the Hawaiian Kenpo/Kempo styles claim the same lineage. Kenpo/kempo didn’t originate with Ed Parker as you stated. It started with James Mitose. It continued with his student William Chow, then it splintered from there. This all happened in Hawaii, hence the term Hawaiian kenpo. Mitose called his art Kenpo Juijitsu and later Kosho Ryu Kenpo. Chow called his art Kenpo Karate then later Kara Ho Kenpo. One of Chow’s students was Ed Parker who then brought Chow’s art to the mainland and then took it his own direction. His student, Jeff Speakman, added a lot of ground fighting to modernize it creating Kenpo 5.0. Another of Chow’s students was Adriano Emperado who went on to develop Kajukenbo, a very similar style to Hawaiian Kenpo. Another of Chow’s teachers, Ron Alo, founded my style, Alo Kenpo. Another of Chow’s students went on to teach John Hackleman of “The Pit” Hawaiian Kempo. Hackleman famously coached Chuck Liddel who has rank in his Hawaiian Kempo. Hackleman does state that he wanted to differentiate his version of Kempo by spelling it with the M. He states that his version is more hardcore. He disdains kata, and focusses more on conditioning. Whatever. All I’m saying is that there is no real distinction between Kenpo and Kempo although just like any style, the quality of what you get will range from school to school. In any case, I'd just combine them and would place them at a B level, although I'm still not sure how sport karate would be superior since Kenpo/kenpo has tons of Filipino escrima embedded in the curriculum and we train with sticks and knives a lot, not to mention all of the traditional Okinawan Kobudo weapons as well. Just food for thought. As always, I enjoy your vids. Oss!
I did eight years of Kyokushinkai. I actually moved to Kenpo Karate and found it, in my opinion, when well trained, one of the best and most complete arts around. Tremendous ability to adapt other techniques within the system. I think it is fantastic. I am a 3rd degree brown belt.
When I hear a lot of this stuff I'm confused when it comes to Kenpo. I have learned a lot though and I learned something from you today. I study Mugai Ryu Kenpo. It has been passed down through my family. I see Kenpo as closer to Aki jiu-jitsu than Karate and was taught that it lends itself to willow palms fighting styles...the soft side of Goju, and Hung Gar open hand fighting systems like Wing Chun Taichi Hapkido Chi Na etc. It is a very old sword fighting style though it just predates Karate.. it's kind of like the people that focused on the weapon lost their hands and the people that focused on the hands lost the weapon. That's where all the grappling is. The Hawaiian side of the story fills in a lot of gaps. I don't really know my story but my ancestors were part Filipino before the end of slavery. It's too hard to trace but if that is possible it was a sword style transferred to a stick style transferred back to a sword and passed down through my family... Just sounds unbelievable. It's getting to the point now to where I don't even tell people what my style is anymore unless you understand the word Koryu or shadow arts.
I think we just need to consider that Kempo / Kenpo is the Japanese translation of the Chinese generic term Chaun Fa, meaning the way of the fist. Kenpo styles are very diverse, but they all tend to state a lineage of Japanese / Okinawan arts that have a lineage to Chinese origins. I practice Shorinji Kempo (Shorinji is the Japanese translation of Shaolin) which is a lot different to the American Kenpo styles
It was definitely clear listening to you that you don't have any experience with Isshinryu. I practiced it for a number of years back in the 1980s-90s. It is a combat focused style with the majority of US masters having learned it from the founder in Okinawa as US marines during the Korean and Vietnam war periods. I currently practice and teach Tang Soo Do and find myself relying on Isshinryu bunkai in many cases to explain forms still. This was an entertaining video to watch in any case.
Nice video and rankings. After switching from Shotokan to Goju Ryu, there's some things I'd like to point out. There's almost no bunkai in Shotokan. You'd have to at least get a black belt and maybe study superficial Bunkai. Shotokan is very similar to Sports Karate in the sense that it emphasizes going in, attacking and getting out. The problem is that Shotokan (and Sport Karate) does not prepare someone to get hit and respond after getting hit. There's no self defense applications and all fighting scenarios are long distance as Shotokan was Japanized and follows the ma-ai principles from Kendo. The coolest thing about Shotokan though is teaching the mentality of hitting hard with a finishing blow. It is also a rigid Japanese system which is cool as well. On the other hand you have Goju. Honestly, I tend to compare Goju very much with Uechi. They share similar concepts, circularity, tons of applications. When you do belt testing in Goju, you have to show applications for Katas. The bunkai includes anything from a block and a kick to arm manipulation, joint lock and then projection. There's tons of cool stuff if you look at the Bunkai. Goju's distancing is close range fighting and they also teach you to take hits by conditioning body and mind. If you've seen Goju and Uechi people do Sanchin while getting checked for posture, breathing and tension, you'll know what I'm talking about. Goju is all about relaxation and tensing up in the right moment. When I think Goju I think of a whip, compared to Shotokan which was more of a bat. For my particular taste, Uechi and Goju would be S tier. Shotokan, Shorin and Kudo A tier. By the way, Shorin is the Okinawan roots version of Shotokan. Shito, Wado, Kempo and Kyokushin would be B. Sport Karate C. Isshin and Kenpo D. Ameridote would probably be XXX and master Ken would approve.
@@ninjaman7123 I've benefited from both. But if I had to choose one it would be Goju. What I like about Shotokan is their approach to drilling the basics over and over. It's also a great style to improve your athletic abilities in my opinion. On the other hand, Goju has applications and in some places there's contact kumite (not sports karate kumite). Their focus is on Kata and goes from there. I personally prefer Goju katas to Shotokan katas. Goju has also been kinder to my body as I'm neither a teen or in my 20's. In most Shotokan schools the expectation is for you to perform all the kicks at head level, which depending on the mechanics of the kick and your abilities can be difficult. In Goju most of the kicks are aimed to the groin and legs as showed in the kata. If there's something else you'd like to know please don't hesitate to ask :)
How would you differentiate Goju-Ryu and Uechi-Ryu? I'm trying to decide between booth. I'm shodan in Wado-Ryu by the way. What you said about Shotokan, I'd say it's the same in Wado-Ryu, at least the way I learned it. Does Goju-Ryu has more focus on grappling? I noticed that Uechi-Ryu uses open hand technique a lot and their stance seems a bit weird to me. What do you think?
@@keithhere5292 We aim for light contact, strikes targeting the head, but not touching it. In my school, we spar a lot, but only attend an annual tournament for our group of schools. We also do a lot of drills with harder contact, as well as take-downs and grappling practice.
@@nicholassermoneta7981 I'm an isshinryu black belt and we do sparring exactly like kyokushin dudes do. Hell, we even do competitions where we bring isshinryu practitioners to fight kyokushin practitioners. There are the same rules except the fact that in kyokushin competitions they allow the front kick to the face, whether it is maye geri jodan, yoko geri jodan or ushiro geri jodan. We dont do that in isshinryu competitions.
You are assuming the merge was of two complete styles, rather than parts of two styles. Plus it's always the combination of the practitioner and their application of the techniques that they know (and use/demonstrate) that determines how someone might judge their style.
Based on the information you all have, I'm not surprised you would rank Isshinryu that low but I would love to have a deeper discussion with you all on the style. My dojo in particular does lots of full contact sparring, grappling, and take downs on top of the katas. I will admit though a lot of Isshinryu schools don't it's very inconsistent.
I do Kenpo under Bob White who was Ed Parker’s senior Black Belt when he died. He is in his 70s and still going strong in Costa Mesa CA. He was on the US black belt team in the early 70s and they went undefeated including against the Chuck Norris team.The school has multiple sport karate fighters teaching there for the last 30 years. They teach the techniques and kata (forms) with heavy emphasis on technique. They also run sparring and sparring drills most classes. I’m sure there are McDojos out there. I’ve been in multiple martial arts and in the military and this is pretty legit IMHO. Love your channel! Keep it up!
To be clear, the photo shown during the Goju Ryu segment representing "conditioning" is actually Uechi-Ryu Master Shinyu Gushi (deceased). He was a well respected expert in Kobudo as well as Uechi-Ryu karate.
I find it interesting that Isshinryu got ranked below both Goju and Shorin , respectively , when Isshin itself is largely a combination of both Goju and Shorin , as Sensei Shimabuku thought to be the best aspects.
crazy right? there's plenty of guys in okinawa that do a combination of goju/shorin + isshin. if one dojo is open MWF you take up TuThSa with another similar style.
The isshinryu gym i went to was ran by a guy who studied directly from the soldiers who brought it back from okinawa in the war... and it was hard core. We sparred nearly full contact, face hits were encouraged, we studied grappling, and applying techniques in self-defense situations, bunkai and weapons... and our tournaments were open to all styles.. the ones i were in had tae kwan do guys, and kung fu.,. etc.. not just isshinryu.
The disconnect between kata and the techniques is something that bothers me a bit. But still. Kata practice for me tomorrow. I really enjoy more the jujutsu part.
Most of the "grappling" in Wado though is compliant partner drills, and honestly looks more like Aikido than Judo. Anytime I attended a multi style tournament (WKF basically) the Wado folks weren't any better or worse at takedowns in Kumite than other styles.
I believe that Cobra Kai practices Tang Soo Do, since Pat Johnson was the fight choreographer for original The Karate Kid. But what style did DC Comic's The Karate Kid practice?
@@SenseiSeth Yes it was. In the 1970s, to capitalize on the martial arts craze that was kicked off by the popularity of the Billy Jack and Bruce Lee films, the major comic book companies ( Marvel and DC) developed martial arts themed comics. It really was a craze back then, you should have been there. You saw martial arts everywhere; films, TV shows ( Longstreet, Cleopatra Jones, Kung-fu), books ( Black Samurai, Remo Williams, The Ninja Master), magazines (Inside Karate, Real Karate, Karate Combat, Kung-fu), Saturday morning cartoons ( Hong Kong Phooey), music, commercials, there was even High Karate aftershave. It was either "karoddy" or kung-fu. Everybody really was " Kung Fu Fighting" , even the Flintstones ( Wilma and Betty were karate black belts), the "best" was TV martial moment was when Ponch was revealed to be a karate master on an episode of CHiPS, featuring Danny from The Partridge Family as a bo-wielding delinquent. Sorry about that stroll down pop culture memory lane, back to the comics. Marvel had Shang-Chi: Master of Kung-fu and Iron Fist, while DC brought out Kung-fu Fighters and The Karate Kid. Notice that throughout all of this, although " everybody was kung-fu fighting" , nobody was "aikido tossing" and there was no Aikido Guy superhero. The Karate Kid ( AKA Val Armor) was a member of the Legion of Superheroes, who hung out with Superboy whenever he time travelled into the 31st century. Unlike the rest of the Legion, he possessed no super powers other than being super skilled in the martial arts and having an ultra developed ki force. In his solo comic series, he is whisked back to the 20th century, where he romanced a kindergarten teacher and battled evildoers.
@GarthanSaal444 May I add their kata (Korean Tang Soo Do) are 'borrowed" from Shotokan. But folks, who are we kidding here? It's the practitioner what makes a karate system effective or just junk. Peace to all.
As I scroll through the comments, I am surprised to see so few people discussing Uechi. I have been practicing this style since I was eight years old (I am now 22) and I think that Seth and Jessie got most of what they said about the style correct. However, they missed several critical points in my opinion. First, Uechi focuses heavily on a concept called pangainoon (the style was originally called this) which means half-hard half-soft in English. Through this concept, we focus on hardening our bodies while also keeping ourselves loose in order to move faster which brings up another point I want to address. Conditioning is one of the focal points of Uechi and in my opinion is one of the biggest benefits of the style as a whole. It improves your bone/muscle density and as a result, your body is able to take a lot more hits without being affected. Many practitioners who have conditioned their bodies for decades are so hard that if you hit them it will hurt even as an experienced person practicing martial arts. Lastly, I want to discuss the the flow of power of the body. As I have learned from my practitioners, all power is derived from the ground and the analogy they like to use is that you are a tree and the roots are your feet. However, in order to make the most of your root and generate the most power, you have to be able to move the rest of your body in order to exude the power generated through the exit points being the knuckles, toes, fingers, etc (the soft half of pangainoon). Therefore, Uechi shows you how to channel your energy in a effective way and I believe that it can be very lethal in any sort of application especially when sparring taking the way the need for takedown and grappling techniques (even though they are present in the style). In conclusion, Uechi is a practical karate style that never really gets old because there is always something to work on. For three years, Kanbun Uechi was only allowed to work the foundational kata Sanchin before he was allowed to learn the rest of pangainoon. If you want to learn more about the history of Uechi, here is a link to more information - www.zenquestmac.com/uploads/2/5/6/4/25641098/historyofkarate.pdf
@@davefletch3063 When it's taught properly with the body conditioning and breath control in sanchin, it scares off most Americans, to say nothing of the Canadians. I can say about the rest of the world. The pain from doing the body conditioning is not something that many people are willing to suffer through anymore. Also, you cannot start doing the body condition until the latter half of your teens, which makes it hard to really teach the style properly to children. Uechi was already an adult when he studied in China, and he primarily taught adults.
@@evilemperor5325 that is true. Most westerners forget to use the liniment after the conditioning to aid breaking up the bruises. The conditioning is important in a lot of different styles but gets neglected because of cultural softness.
Although my primary martial art has been Choy Li Fut for over half a century, I also spent some time with Bob Yarnell learning Shorin Ryu. Took a little Isshin, Taekwando, Shotokan, and Jeet Kun Do. I found Shorin and Isshin to be very effective for Karate. I haven't even heard of many of the styles you mentioned, but back in the day Bob Yarnell was beating most other styles with Shorin. Back when I was young and hanging out with Bob at his store and school I got to observe many of the Karate legends in person. Chuck Norris, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, and Jim Kelly. Those were the glory days of martial arts. In summation I would have ranked Shorin higher.
Tough job guys! I've practiced Shotokan for 30 years and I actually think you did a great job! In my experience, Shotokan is a tough, linear style and when practiced properly -- very effective. The downside I've found with Shotokan is that there is often a lack of mobility until you reach higher levels -- and even then, not enough is some cases. I was really surprised one day when I went to work out with some sport karate practitioners and their mobility was outstanding. They may lack the big power of traditional Shotokan but when you only need 75% to knock your opponent out, it doesn't matter. I would take the mobility and a bit less power. In terms of the grappling and take down - Jessie is right on that it's not a focus. Occasionally we do it but not to any extent. The other issue I found with Shotokan is that it takes too long to be effective at Kumite (fighting) - It's like a university degree in the sense that it doesn't really become useful until you are graduating. This is due to the extensive focus on repetition, perfection of technique and the staged learning process. The end result is intended to produce explosive speed and power. Bottom line is that a properly trained Shotokan black belt with the required years of hard work will be a tough customer.
I'm kudo practitioner and i was really surprised when i saw kudo was involved and even rated that high, even though it's not that popular outside Japan, Russia, Ukraine and some middle East countries. I'm glad that my fav style is getting populized in the West.
i love this!. My top 3 is: Kudo, kyokushin, Kempo (shorinji) for all this full contact sparring. It seems to be more realistic for me. Cheers from Chile! ;)
@@csabafamin2277 it's a well rounded and realistic combat sport and it's relatively safer than no-gi MMA.. The question is why it's so unpopular in the world? And the answer is that grand master Azuma Takashi was late with his world tour because UFC already happened and took over the world. By the way, I'm training in Canada, not Russia :)
@@MA-fi1ie I wish to have a kudo karate gym here in the Philippines but only shotokan, goju-ryu and kyukushin. The most appealing to me is kudo because I see it as a more practical karate.
I studied isshinryu for 9 years. It is a very disciplined fighting style that taught me everything I know about self defense and inner personal strength. Sadly I stopped at the last belt before black. I wish to go back one day and achieve the ran of sho Dan.
Fun fact, Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama was Both Goju and Shotokan Black Belt. Kyokushin dojos teaches kata and bunkai too. And practices with head punches. Only during bare knuckle dojo fights/grading fights/ kyokushin rule tourneys face punches are not allowed.
@@SenseiSeth and Sensei, GOAT Bas Rutten is a Kyokushin guy. I kinda agree with your list except the sport karate one but you and Jesse sensei obviously have more experience than me ❤️
I'd love to see either of you enjoy a proper kyokushin grading session. I could't bend my legs for days properly after my 5 kyu grading after 8 fights, and seiza was not possible after two weeks 😂 seriously to compare the competition styles to another don't mean squat. Way I see it as a wierd karate family does all the same stuff but claim the others do it wrong 😂
I learned Wado-Ruy in end of 80’s, and in training you don’t do full contact, you have to stop your hit 0,2 inches before contact. You take it in only in the real situation. But stopping your kick or hit so close takes a lot of discipline.
I practice currently since the 90s and basically you pull your strikes. You won't lose points for following through but it's bad form when sparring. Of course there is no striking below the belt (sweeps are allowed) and no striking straight to the face or back of the head, all during sparring of course.
Interesting. Whenever we did kumite, we followed semi-contact rules with protective equipment. Contact was required for a point, but too much force was not permitted. It took me a long time for me to appreciate how much control I had gained as a result.
Enjoyed the analysis and how you discussed the different styles. Agree with you that Kyokushin's "weakness" lies in the fact that when we (most of us) practice dojo-fight (kumite), then our sparring is very influenced by our competition rules, where bare-knuckled face-punches are banned for good reason. I looked amongst the comments, and may have overlooked it, but could not find anyone mentioning that not long before he passed away, Sosai Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin, started to talk about the Kyokushin Genesis; the "New" Kyokushin. Certainly many Kyokushin-practitioners now have started questioning how the art has been thought the past 30-40 years. The fact that 75% of all the techniques shown in Masutatsu Oyama's three major books; "What is Karate", "This is Karate" and "Advanced Karate" is illegal according to our competition rules, should tell you something. Sosai Oyama devoted a whole chapter in This is Karate to Ne-Waza (ground fighting techniques). And when you start analyzing the kata and kihon, it is full of locks and throws. Traditional Kyokushin is "MMA" as good as any. I recommend checking out Shihan Cameron Quinn, or Shihan Terry Birkett (there are many-many others also), and their approach to the art. In my opinion, the Kyokushin Genesis is certainly a wave in it's mere beginning, and it will be exiting to follow it as it grows.
What a hard topic. Respects for doing this. I agreed with 70% of it but that's me. Kyokushin is definitely A. Punches to the face aren't allowed in tournaments but they are used in the Dojo. Ashihara Karate and Enshin weren't there. Watch "Sabaki Challenge". Sport Karate is definitely a C points is a D. As its not preparation for your criteria. Wado, Shotokan and Shito should all be D as their Sparring is the Sanbomne Kumite. Points is bad. Kudo is awesome
@@SenseiSeth absolutely depends on the dojo. I train to avoid hands to the head in case students choose to compete. However, I also train students to adapt. With a good guard and good basic mechanics for upper chest punches, a practitioner can operate in a match with head punches. We do kihon to the head though
Dude, I'm Wado-Ryu. I had to look up what Sanbomne Kumite is. We definitely had real sparring (our dojo used the Kyokushin rules). Sparing hits to the head are also much lighter btw. It does not compare to something like a boxing tournament in terms of how hard you get hit (unless you piss of your sparing partner).
Kyokushin/Kyokushinkai is definitely one of the more controversial ones, but as this is supposed to be ON AVERAGE, B is completely understandable. I lucked out in my Kyokushinkai education but the art literally took a HUGE shift in its first generation of existence. If you want more info I can fill you in
@@SenseiSeth For sure! My dojo was obsessed with the original Kyokushinkai. When Mas Oyama made it, it was a pool of all his knowledge 7th Dan Goju-Ryu which had LOADS of grappling with techniques similar to wrestling, sumo and judo. Takedowns, throws, submissions, etc 4th Dan Shotokan which also had some Daito-ryu/aikijutsu style grappling 4th Dan Kodokan Judo, literally the original Kyokushin was kudo Plus techniques were taken from whatever Kyokushin fought His old videos describing Kumite and demonstrating technique showed him doing head punches, body and head elbows, etc. Originally he allowed it all plus grappling. But his golden boy student never took it that far. He learned the striking really well (especially kicking) and was one of the 3 fighters sent by the school to Thailand to fight Nak Muay under Muay Thai rules. Originally it was a different 3rd guy but he got sick or something so they replaced him with the golden boy (Kenji Kurosaki who also, with Kancho Oyama, founded Kyokushinkaikan) who did not have time to prep for his fight. So the first two kyokushin fighters won but Kurosaki lost. He then learned japanese kickboxing (Kyokushin plus western boxing, figuring his lack of boxing skill was why he lost and not because he didnt have time to train for his fight while the other 2 did which would be a huge factor). Then this Dutch guy named Jan Plas trained with him in the original Meijiro Gym (and helped him run it for quite a while), took what he learned back to Amsterdam and started Dutch Kickboxing. So if you want to count Dutch KB as karate, you technically would not be wrong either You can also look into ashihara since last I heard they were heavy on elbows and trying to put face punches and grappling back into Kyokushin. Sorry if this was a bit long, but I figured it might interest you! Great vid as always!
@julio1c1saga Different places honestly. The history of the rule changes in kyokushin is very spotty and not completely known. Reading about the early life of Mas Oyama will give you his education in martial arts and outlook when creating Kyokushinkai. Looking into the story of the time Kyokushin fought Muay Thai is another piece. And looking up the formation of Dutch kickboxing gives you yet another part
Just check out Oyama's master student Jon Bluming, who was also a Kodokan Judoka and a honored student of the Kodokan (he focussed on throwing opponents to the floor and finshing them with Kosen Judo (ne waza) techniques like in BJJ) he literally mixed Judo with Kyokushin and started his "Kyokushin Budokai" style in the 80's.
@@makesenz It’s still pathetic that “WORLD OYAMA” wouldn’t have the actual education. Just plain sad But thank you for the info! Maybe this can be the most informative Kyokushinkai thread on TH-cam
I was waiting to see whether Kudo would be respected. It was nice to see that you recognise it’s roots of Jukucho Azuma Takashi (Kyokushin/Judo) Interesting that you describe it as a modern sport as that’s what Kudo is but the art is Daido Juku and remains the foundation of cultivation and community development in line with the wishes of Jukucho. There are no Kata in the art as they were dropped to allow further development and evolution of the art by the influences of other arts. I understand you are building your content and brands guys but support more at grass roots by giving light to others. With respect Kudo Mal ;)
@@SenseiSeth I agree, find an official Branch and go and do a video, they will look after you. Budo is what connects us, would be a dope thing to do for your channel and it would help spread the word. Thanks for your reply. Now hashbrown it and send it to the internet ;) #cobrakai
I wish this style was much bigger in the USA. I think it is alot tougher than sport karate. Sport karate of the 1970's was MUCH different than today's game of "tag'' Kudo looks like a streamlined martial arts, no kata etc.
I think most of styles were intended for practical use at first and tried to enrich their base with everything that was within reach. Not all of them lasted long enough to get in contact with most of the world though, and sometimes that also meant that a lot of work was simply lost.
Interesting, I live in Northern Japan and practice Isshin and it is far closer to your description of Kyokushin than your description of Isshin. We do a lot of kumite, in fact most of our training is conditioning, technique practice against pads, and kumite. In nearly a year we have rarely practiced kata.
I’m just here to play devil’s advocate In UFC 1 Gerard Gordeau a Kyokushin Karate guy to 2nd/runner up only to Royce. UFC 3 Harold Howard a Gōjū-ryū Karate guy took 2nd place runner up. Early UFC’s are a great marking point for effectiveness of pure styles (as close as you can get) Almost of of the karate base guys did well until they met Royce or a wrestler. Pat Smith a kenpo BB won the Sabaki Tournament (The most popular kyokushin style tournament in the USA at the time) at Heavyweight before he fought in the UFC. Sport Karate has guys like Raymond Dainels and Michael Venom Page who fought world class competition in kickboxing and mma
I'm Shotokan black belt and about stop after hit the oponent is something we do intentionally in shiai kumite (sport fight) but we train in jiyu kumite (free sparring) combinations and continous techniques focused in self defense, even some ground game. But the most important aspect of our style is that our training is focused to develop power to "kill" a opponent with a single blow, the "Todome Waza", is the perfect strike, that cleanest and powerfull strike, the claimed "one punch knockout". But to do that is not just a matter of power, but also precision and specially timing. Lyoto Machida applied this perfectly in the UFC. Osu! Very fun video!
Go ju ryu black belt here! I trained in a very traditional dojo, we did like everything ground, takedows and mostly striking. Also we did a lot of kata and bunkai. Despite that i had a lot of problems in my transition to kickboxing because of the lack of competition. I belive that for A and S class full contact competition should be mandatory
I just started training in this and I noticed there isn't a lot of sparring. Is this common across the goju ryu dojos? Also how long did it take you to get your black belt? I ask because theres white belts in my dojo who have not been promoted in almost 2 years of training.
@@kevintaulbee6433 Go Ju Ryu dojos tend to be very different one to another. In my case we did a lot of sparring but mostly light contact. And for my blackbelt, like 9 years (I trained for 12). My sensei did not give blackbelts exams to underage people so i did it at age 18 (Until he gave one to a 14 year old, thats when i left hahaha)
Man I do not think Kudo is S tier...but aight. Many Kyokushin associations are now adopting strikes to the face (with the kudo head gear) in general kumite. Also, Kyokushin has all of the kata from Shotokan and many from Uechi Ryu as well, with some very complex forms exceeding 50+ movements. Elbow strikes ARE allowed in kyokushin kumite as well as sweeps, and the earliest kata bunkai's include many judo sweeps and throws! Not saying your ranking is incorrect, but there's some missing information. Love the vids bro!
OSU ! I started training under Tadashi Nakamura and Nobuyuki Kishi ( uchi deshi of Mas Oyama ) in 1976. Back then Kaicho Nakamura had just resigned as Chief Instructor of kyokushin and Started Seido Juku. After some time Shihan Kishi returned to Kyokushin in NYC. His classes were long and tough all ended with a long Kumite session. Sosai Oyama was a Yon Dan in Judo, Shotokan, Goju Ryu so in fact Kyokushin is a combination of all. we used many judo throws and rolls back then for take downs, you are correct in saying that grappling is not a part of most Kyokushin Dojo's. As history of Kyokushin states the early kumite had face and groin strikes. GSP - Bas Rutten - Andy Hug ( watch his K1 matches - K1 was started by a Kyokushin Group) to name just a few may differ from the rating given. Thank You !
I think the big problem in ranking these is that even within the "style" themselves, everyone practices it differently so end up making up a lot of broad strokes in what each practitioner would learn
Surprised you put Shotokan so high up. I trained it until 3rd kyu when I was younger (in Denmark), and it didn't feel all that combat focused. Sure, we did some light sparring, but it was mostly solo drilling and kata, as far as I remember.
Master Ken cited Lyoto Maschida, who is to date the best karate fighter in MMA, much better than his brother. He was a shotokan practitioner. You do not know about what you are talking.
@@MarcoAntonioRidenti I know what I am talking about. I do Shotokan and Kyokushin and I have high rank in belts, so I really know what I am talking about. Lyoto Machida is master in Shotokan style, but he still has MMA universal training. Techniques from Shotokan are very good and could be really deadly and efficient, but if you do Shotokan, you do not get used to being hit, you cant really stand attacks. I am not attacking this style, I am just telling reality. Advantages of Shotokan are speed, quick power, technique and accuracy. Disadvantages are weaker body, not getting used to being hit, bad work on ground. Instead of saying trash, be educated better in the topic. ;) Osu from Czech sensei of Shotokan and Kyokushin styles.
I’m an Isshin Ryu black belt. All I got out of this was that Seth wasn’t familiar with it, so he gave it a ‘D’. There was a time when Angi Uezu was working as a security guard and a belligerent American soldier threw a punch at Angi Uezu’s head. Angi Uezi blocked. The fight was over. He broke the guy’s arm. So…I guess that’s a ‘D’. Seriously, I know well how the style has been pressure tested, and specific people who have defended themselves in a street situation and it has worked just fine. It’s all just fun and games until someone loses a knee.
Wado-Ryu guy here and I think Tatsuya Naka would disagree with your assessment of Wado-Ryu. When he visited Grandmaster Otsuka III, Naka was blown away by his technique and the technicality of Wado-Ryu, so much so that he simply couldn't replicate them easily. Bunkai is also practiced extensively in Wado-Ryu with many interpretations and useful applications. If you speak to a lot of 80s karate competitors, they will also tell you that Wado and Shotokan fighters generally made it to the finals, so on the arguments based above, you really should have Wado karate in the A category.
Wado karateka here! I’d just like to add that you’re mistaken about our kata in regards to bunkai. The bunkai in our kata is very much enforced within Wado training and within my training personally, I was trained from day 1 to have the bunkai at the forefront of mind when performing every move in every kata/combination. This is what adds so much strength and speed to a lot of the Wado karateka’s kata/combination work - the embedded bunkai knowledge. We can also be very intense when it comes to kumite and our sparring can be very full on (full contact). I find that when it comes to competing (outside of WKF comps), it mainly (not always of course) comes down to Wado and Shotokan karateka’s as the final competitors. I think the fact we have such strong competition against Shotokan karateka’s (with their strong stances and attacks), it shows Wado karateka’s are very much full on and intense when it comes to our kata and kumite. Wado has advanced a lot since Hironori founded the style and I think the outlook of our style is a little outdated. But this was interesting to watch! Thank you 😊
As a Wado guy, I do wish that we had more kata, if only for competition variety. I've only ever done a handful of kata in competition; kushanku, shinto, seishan and basai-dai. Nianchi is far too short and neeshayshee never felt fun for me. Wanshu is great, especially that reverse jump spinning shuto-uke, but I never really got the chance to use it in tournaments.
In the Netherlands, I used to practise Karate in a Dojo that teached Kyokushin, and the students actually learned face-punching and how to defend it, but I believe you when you say it is rare these days.
It was very entertaining. Thank you. One word about Kyokushin. Like any style of karate, it has many versions and schools, as you probably know. What I would like to add about Kyokushin is that Kyokushin itself has been changing for several years and the techniques allowed during the competition now, are undercuts and brought down to the ground floor. In addition, I attended the dojo myself, where, apart from sports fighting, we learned to fight without competition rules as well as self-defense. Although less time is spent on it. Osu
I watch you and Jesse quite a bit. You've produced some really good, quality content. I've seen both of you defend the positive aspects of Karate for years. However, what I haven't seen on your channels is a solution to the Karate problem. The monetization of the name of Karate has reduced it's credibility over the years. Little kids with black belts, McDojos, silly no touch masters, and chi energy. These are the reasons that Karate is largely a joke in the eye of the martial arts community. On top of that, there are dojos that only practice kata, and claim that they're training you to be a deadly weapon! The Karate reputation is damaged. But... The problem isn't in the styles. You're right, quality does vary from dojo to dojo, and its because there's a large number of dojos who have refused to acknowledge that the world has adapted, changed and evolved. We cannot rely on techniques that require a compliant partner! The enemy will not let you win! We cannot claim to be teaching people how to protect themselves in a fight without giving them any actual practice fighting! For years I heard Sensei after Sensei answer the question of what to do on the ground with: "There's a reason they call the dead on the battlefield 'the fallen'" Well, I hate to break it to you, half the violent altercations end up on the ground, incorporate some ground fighting! Over the course of my long and diverse martial arts career, I've witnessed the error of our ways, and I have resolved to change the direction of our art, or the very least, influence it. This small phrase embodies a simple solution to everything wrong with Karate: * To be a fighter, you must fight, so prepare for combat in all forms, because the enemy will not let you win. * This is the guiding principal of my school. It may seem contrary to traditional rules of Karate, but if we ever hope to change the reputation of our art, we need to change the way we think about it. After all, If we don't learn from the mistakes of the past, we are doomed to repeat them.
Part of the solution should be showing people the practical applications. If they wanna say Karate is joke, back up your stance. Karate, if you have a good understanding of it, I’d very applicable and easily proven to be useful. Lots of mixed martial artists incorporate karate to some capacity or another as well. The problem with karate really is that traditionally it was “kill or be killed” which doesn’t really fly anymore. You can go out and gouge peoples’ eyes out in the street. However, you CAN put someone on their ass, or block a strike so hard that their arms or shins get welts. If people preserved the art and allowed karate to outlast other styles, karate wins. I would imagine that’s a reason why there’s such an emphasis on funds and outdoing other dojos, but I could be wrong.
Depends on the instructor for sure! I’ve trained Isshinryu for about 12 years and I was super lucky to have a great instructor. He’s great at balancing the art side of martial arts with practical self defense and sparring. Definitely done a bit dirty here but I can understand, if the instructor sucks it’ll be useless just like any other martial art.
I am currently doing Isshin-Ryu here in the US (Knoxville, Tennessee area), so there is a lot of history with it here. We frequently do Kumite (Sparring for those that don't speak the language). It is light to moderate contact, much like I did in Tae-Kwon-Do years ago.
Isshinryu schools in the 90s used to include diagrams on where to hit for fluid shock and organ rupturing, the kids got the same lesson plan as the adults then the american schools changed it up late 90s early 2000s. Extra belts added and different lessions for adults and kids.
@@jeremiahiwinski1401 This is just my opinion, but I really don't think it's taekwondo. I study in a Dojang that also teaches WTF taekwondo so I see them train a lot. And WTF taekwondo almost never have their hands up in fighting. ITF seems closer, but they still don't usually have their hands up in tournaments either, although they sometimes do in non tournament fights. The most telling mark is in the robby vs miguel fight, where miguel's stance goes pretty low and on his flat foot. Taekwondo players almost always have a higher stance (Also miguel has his hands up). Even in the original karate kid, Lawrence also has his guard up. Mix in the fact that their original fight choreographer was a tang soo do grandmaster, which makes it more likely that it is tang soo do. I can understand the confusion though, since Taekwondo and TangSooDo have basically the same roots (Takkyeon and Subak) and both styles have a lot of kicks but TangSooDo was influenced by Shotokan Karate as well.
You guys have mad stones to do this video! I think we all agree that a lot of this depends on the individual, the instructor and other factors. This is going to be entertaining!
Great Thanks for the quick and dirty description of the styles and explaining your ranking philosophy. Love both you guys and your work. You too Icy Mike
He is indeed! I am from the Netherlands, and he gave seminars to me when I participated at the World championship in Spain and the Netherlands in 2011 and 2012.
Shito-Ryu Brown Belt here! Shito is pretty kata heavy because it's kind of a like a hybrid style, but it's true that it's pretty theory-focused. I learn a lot about technique, body mechanics, and fundamentals during kata, so I'm confident the things we practice in kata and bunkai work with sufficient force if you ever needed the muscle memory to perform them in a real crisis, but I do feel like I wish I had a lot more practical enlightenment.
@@SenseiSeth I like how Karate went full circle original Karate was complete like that then it became all their own segregated traditions then it went back to being whole again with Kudo lol. We live in a society. Humans are weird!
Exactly. Kudo is no doubt the best Karate style. It's a hybrid martial art consist of Kyokushin, Boxing, Muay Thai and Judo. It's basically a Japanese MMA before UFC were created.
I studied isshinryu for over 20 years I love it the school I went to did alot of self defense techniques during class. I still can't make a fist without the thumb on top after doing it since 1999
Just surprised by the comment on wado. When I passed my 1st Dan (at the same time as some guys from other styles), the bunkais we were doing were way better than most other guys. We were better in fighting, throws, groundwork, AND bunkais. And clearly not as good as shotokan and goju people in kyon and Kata.
I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate and Japanese Ju-jitsu. And I find both styles to be excellent for self defense! For me personally I study more for the philosophies and being a kind person! This was a fun and excellent video I have also started my journey into Iaido I think I spelt that right and it it truly beautiful. Great video sending love and peace!
Not gonna argue over placement in the rankings, but some of the aspects of Goju were missing. Like multiple-person kumite (consecutive kumite matches), Kobudo, tegumi, randori, ne waza. At least, that's what we do in my Goju Ryu dojo here in the UK. One major criticism I do have of Goju however, is that there's no punches to the face in kumite. Punches to the face all over the place in Kata and bunkai, just not in kumite.
Well Cobra Kai is based on Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan, which itself is heavily rooted in Shotokan with some influences of Taekkyon and Subak, so placing it in the same level with Shotokan was definitely the right move.
Shorin-ryu gets S tier. My first day as a white belt was sparring day. The whole day (after 45 minutes of warmup, stretching and conditioning) was sparring and I had to fight the brown belt, twice my age and size. It hurt.. a lot. The good ol days.
Can’t believe you forced me into this! 🙈😫🥋
Hey Jessie I'm a big fan of your channel and Sensei Seth I'm glad you guys did it maybe you can get him to do a seminar with you sometime
Hi Jesse 😁🙏🙏🙏
Just wanted to know how different Wado Ryu is to Wado Kai? Because I trained in Wado Kai and it had no locks or juijutsu but more strike based like shotokan!!
😂😂😂😂
I’m sorry Jesse, I had to.. it was for the content!! 😂😂😂
It was great Jesse.
It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it plays out for em.
Blindfolded and everything lol
Please be safe ya'll Ameri-Do-Te aint nothing to Mess with. Probably have to keep the cup's on till you safe at home
Love the reference quote hahah
Fking Chuck Norris
He's trying to bait Master Ken into a fight for views. Not worth your life Seth.
Kyokushin and shotokan. Extra points for the coolest names in all of martial arts.
Because as we all know, a martial art's effectiveness is directly proportional to the coolness of its name
Uechi ryu has a badass one too (i just found out, i've practiced shotokan)
@@elnombredelarosa3167 Just like with mass of an object and his gravity
If you ever go to Japan just make sure you don't pronounce shotokan as shotacon
*Me, Sweats in Shito-ryu * 😅
It's always a good sign when the video starts with, "This was such a bad idea."
😂😂😂
It's like the beginning of a typical movie narrative
2:37 kempo karate
4:00 kenpo
4:14 kyokushin karate
5:45 isshin ryu karate
7:25 uechi ryu karate
8:56 wado ryu karate
11:25 sport karate
14:34 shotokan karate
17:29 wado ryu karate
17:34 goju ryu karate
19:25 shito ryu karate
21:02 isshin ryu karate and wado ryu karate
21:30 shorin ryu karate
23:32 kudo (karate+judo)
24:43 ameridote
25:40 cobra kai
Thank you :)
Korean karate is still karate 🥋
I’m a Muay Thai guy with no karate experience at all, yet here I am. Sensei Seth is rad.
Honestly Goju Ryu pairs really well with Muay Thai, I was able to keep up with a Muay Thai gym for the most part with my prior Goju experience
They got me in the clench though 😅
I've only learned basic striking, Throws, chokes, misc. And just knowing basics of many different styles, I feel like that's all you truly need to build n effective artstyle.
If you master a particular style, and adapt other skills from a different styles, probably you became great fighter.
@@TheAlfarasjohn my Shihan once told me there is no Mastery as fighting always evolves, so you must always learn to evolve with it.
I do a hybrid karate style and Muay Thai
Currently practicing Kyokushin and love it, just wish it didn't have the flaws mentioned. Old-school Kyokushin did have face punches but Oyama's insistence on being a bare-knuckle style meant lots of injuries in sparring so they eventually dropped it rather than adopting gloves. Then after Oyama passed Kyokushin split off into a bunch of different factions with different rules and standards. Still love it for it's focus on building tough fighters, just gotta make sure I take a few boxing classes on the side.
Life long kyokushin practitioner here. Cross training a bit usually fixes alot of these problems.
Kyokushin is one of the few styles that are effective, it teaches you how to fight in close quarters as well which is not easy. The issue with it is the lack of distance management and in and out fighting and the obvious not punching the face issue. My advice would be this, learn some Muay Thai as well, it fixes those problems for you and is not too far in principal from Kyokushin, you would also learn how to clinch, use your elbows and knees more efficiently and manage your distance.
The point is calibrate and adapt. That is why there is Kyokushun base kickboxing of Mejiro gym by Sensei Kurosaki Kenji which later formed the foundation of Dutch kickboxing of Mejiro, Vos gym etc. Seidokaikan rules allow clinching to throw knee kicks and leg catch to sweep. Most K1 kickboxers are Kyokushin and Seidokaikan fighters and they do very well.
If you happen to be near a kudo gym, which you probably aren't, that might be pretty fun. We do a lot of punching.
My Kyokushin training started in 1980. We definitely DID face punch! We knew there were schools that focused more on knockdown competition but there were still plenty of Kyokushin schools who stressed tradition and practical self-defense too. My sensei didn't have a high opinion of schools that focused only on the sport aspects 🙄 Yes very tough fighters but he used to shake his head about it. ''On the street'', he would tell us, ''you're going to get punched in the face''!
I've seen comments suggesting cross-training. Once we made it to brown belt we were encouraged to cross-train. But not just to learn how to face punch or defend against it. We were already doing that 😉
Part of being a well-rounded martial artist is understanding other martial arts. When you do you will find many similarities but also you will learn other approaches and ways of thinking. Being flexible didn't just mean being able to do the splits, having a flexible mind and being capable of thinking outside the box was important too! Learning other martial arts or about them, will help you do that. Osu!
You agree with everything he says until he gets to your style
I thought his analysis of my style was pretty good except he is wrong when he says that there was no sparring in my style. We sparred in every class and even had weekly sparring events against other schools.
Ah, the FivePoints method
@@kelvyiturralde8111 what is your style?
Edit: Mine is Wado
Nah I'm in Uechi, I'd say he got it OK
@@ethanolhaines4139 Isshinryu
Kudo definitely needs to become more popular. It's pretty much MMA with japanese martial arts aesthetic. I have trained it and can guarantee that it would be really interesting to see in western style MMA
Do you train in the USA? I’ve only heard of one Kudo school and it’s so far away… I wanna train it so bad.
@@cullanhamilton1539 me too
Kudo is also the one, I think, that trains headbutts. Only Lethwei also teaches them, and it is a powerful weapon.
When I was training at the Academy of Okinawan Karate in Peoria IL we trained in both Shuri-Ryu karate and Judo but we didn't train them together, they were separate classes but were both a requirement for the black belt exams.
@@cullanhamilton1539 if you want kudo so much, you can do sambo too. If there any sambo school near by.
I used to be a practitioner of gujo ryu for many years in my younger days and in my opinion it deserves A. The practical real word use and application of chokes and grapples gives it an edge over other ‘strike’ only styles.
I train in it now
did it for many years (had no choice as my uncle was the sensi), moved away for uni started training Kudo and BJJ when I was there at a local MMA gym, actually finding myself going back to Gōjū now mostly because as I get deeper into my 30s I'm more into training for fun and not the hammering you take from Kudo comps. It gave me a good base for Kudo actually.
@@lewisb85 could you say that Kudo is the best style for self defense ?
@@jasonvoorhees8899 Yes, I think kudo is a lot like a Japanese Sambo or like sports Jujitsu when I was younger I grew up doing Goju like I said but also Jitsu foundation (Shorinji Kan Jiu Jitsu). For me Kudo is like a full contact version of Jitsu foundation jiu jitsu.
@@lewisb85 I heard about Aikijutsu too. And that the Samurai used to use it.
In Ameridote, their axe kick has an actual axe. This rating is heresy of the lowest order, sir.
Ameridote is bullshit.
@@wattlebough how dare you!! I am deeply disappointed. And offended.
@@kbanghart Lol.
@@wattlebough thats the whole point XD
@@wattlebough im a internet warrior in ameridote don't FUCKING mess with us ameridote fighters 😠💥💨🏆😴
Did someone mention external shoulder rotation and accidentally summon Athlean X?
😂😂😂
He’s a phony
@@dylanthegoat1089 Does he use fake shoulders?😆
This comment wins well done sir
Why would athlean x be summoned? Idk what this is supposed to mean
Biggest takeaway: Karate is one of the best supplemental martial arts if you combine it with the things it’s lacking
Chuck Norris started doing that back in the mid 1960s. He combined Korean Tang Soo Do (kicks) with Japanese Shotokan, Shito-ryu, Shudokan (punches) and judo and some hapkido (grappling). In 1988 he met the Gracies and around 1990 implemented jiu-jitsu (newaza) into his system. Now his group is doing something with Krav Maga also. People can make jokes about him all they want, but the guy was always ahead of most of the pack And he was doing this before he met Bruce Lee so he was cross training before whatever influence Lee had on him.
@@barrettokarate another reason as to why the world revolves around Chuck Norris
@@Ninjacob00 Wasn’t Bruce Lee not overly fond of karate? 🤔
Absolutely
@@barrettokarate Is it better to take Gjj or hapkido for grappling/ground
I practice Isshin-Ryu, the reason why it became so popular in the US is because Tatsuo Shimabuku taught the style to American soldiers who were stationed in Okinawa. After the war, the soldiers returned home and opened their own dojos overseas. I definitely recommend reading more about Tatsuo and Isshin-Ryu, interesting history and origin
Couples years past post date but why not lol. I've been practicing American isshinryu for 8 years now. Made sho Dan in July 2022. The history is fantastic. The OGs were some real bad ass dudes. Real men. Little known fact Robert marc kayman who created the "karate kid" studied isshinryu karate. I've been told that the character sensei kreese was loosely based off my sensei "grandfather" master McGrath. in his lineage his schools were heavy fighting. Little emphasis upon kata. It has changed nationally (unfortunately) but I am very proud to say my representative dojo stuck more to the kumite style rather then kata. I would love to see a prime American isshinryu fighter stack against the top dogs of this list. I believe it to be a hidden gem and hugely underated style in it's prime of emergence. Legend has it master Don Nagel (who originally brought isshinryu to America) had faster hands then Bruce Lee himself... 15th
I'm technically a Third Degree Brown Belt in Isshinryu, but I fight more like 3rd degree black belt. I can win a fight against any Isshinryu second degree black belt anyway. I suck at Kata so I always failed my Kata portion of my black belt test, which is why I never got promoted to black belt.
@@andrewflynn7775I am a brown belt in isshinryu karate and it is a hidden gem I wish it can get more recognition one day
Many years now since post date. Sam dan here in Isshin-ryu. I work out and train under one of the first generation Sensei Tatsuo practitioners, a marine that learned from the founder. When you get to the core of what original Isshin-ryu is, it becomes apparent that it is karate street fighting. The modifications to Shorin-ryu were all designed to be street-fight adaptations. Even all the weapon katas are adapted to be street fights. Fantastic history of the art. (BTW I've practiced many styles, but this is my favorite for punch blocks, strikes to the joints, and weapons [tonfa, staff, sai]).
I‘ve heard very mixed things about Isshin-Ryu. One practitioner’s interpretation on the style tends to be the polar opposite to what another practitioner told me. Seems to me that it’s largely a victimization of being watered down to a point where it’s indistinguishable.
Rex Kwon Do, developed after 8 years of fighting in the octagon
I actually train Kyokuahin and I can tell you it is hard full contact fights in Sport version where the rule set bans head punches. However kicks to the head are allowed.
In training, head punches are taught for defence purposes, and we are taught what is required to end a fight quickly for defence.
Lastly for black back we are required to demonstrate stamina in full contact sparring under the rule set.
We do have Kata, but it is now massive focus with some instructors, but it is on others
👍👍👍
I fought a couple of karate guys back in college. I have a black belt in tkd, but this was tkd as it was in the 80s and 90s, before it transformed ‘foot tag’ as a sport / mcdojo bullshit. The karate guys did wado ryu and kyokushin. Was interesting seeing how those systems fought. I was in a t-shirt and jeans and have always fought like a kickboxer. The wado ryu guy was in full sparring gear. He kept punching me in the nuts. The kyokushin guy just wore a gi and was kinda traditional. We were all black belts and had fun with it.
I do goju ryu and Muay Thai
not to mention the black belt grading has 40 fights non stop once you've been completely drained
@@MysticPhantm 10 for shodan, more for certain clubs.
Wado Guy here, we do some intense training at times. Body shots, and I've been punched a lot in the face by accident.
Glad to see y'all rated it high. We do do throws, but no actual ground fighting. A judoka will crush us
Nice honest assessment!
@@SenseiSeth of course. I do Judo too to help balance it out lol
I used do Wado and I find it works beautifully when I mix it with BJJ in our MMA class. The distancing, the explosiveness, it opens up takedowns and scrambles which lead right into groundwork. The stance isn't too long and is really the stance a lot of MMA fighters now use.
Fellow Wado here. Quite relatable comment...^^ The jujutsu roots opens the door wide to complement easily with other styles to complete the skillset. And yh, when a judo guy has grabbed you, he origami's the **** out of you x)
I practice wado-ryu and I do a lot o ground work (newaza) and katamewaza, our work in our dojo of ground fighting is very good, sometimes I spare with some friends that are Bjj practioner and I can fight them pratty well... but that's my experience with wado-ryu
I might just wanna say something, with all the different organizations out there, kyokushinkan has face punches in shinken shobu ruleset. All the dojo under kyokushinkan train them. It was reintroduced. They have this shinken shobu tournaments where you can punch the face, elbow,sweeps you can use grappling and 10sec ground work.kudo like rules but no head gear only mma gloves. Hope you'll look it up.
Oh nice!! I’ll check it out
Theres a lot of other glove karate styles too, shidokan, seidokaikan (which founded K-1) i think Kyokushinkaikan (the largest org) have started this too
After 50 years of Isshinryu training, numerous real fights and law enforcement service, my Isshin has never failed me! I think you need to raise the rating. I have trained several officers, with a lot of real life violence's and they also attest that Isshin was the best and most practical training that they received in their law enforcement careers.
Tell me about tournaments and MMA competitions you won.
Could you get into a lot more detail? write about those several numerous real fights, name the techniques and all, I am curious.
@@snd7622 are you fucking retarded? he said he used it in LAW ENFORMENT, ie real fights that actually matter and don't have the rules of stupid tournaments. god damn what a stupid fucking post to make. hurrr duurrr muh mma muh tournaments. what a fucking clown.
@@snd7622
Why are you ignoring the point and asking about shit he didn’t even bring up?
@@FirstnameLastname-bn4gv He bring up worthless words about ,, numerous real fights''. 😆 Nothing real to verify like full contact tournaments. This guy is from fantasy world.
“Kyokushin doesn’t punch to the face” never gets old. Very true in tournament rules, not true as a whole in the style. Come on gentlemen.
Loved the video none the less. Osu
Facts and thanks for these comments guys,they have zero idea what kyokushin is it is literally brutal but if they ever try it they will find out lol
@@charleyreaplay Kyokushin guys are tough and they can dish out some real punishment. I wouldn't want to fight someone who has trained any amount of time in it. Especially some of the Japanese training with the punching trees up to near full contact because their fists are so tough.
I definitely disagree with putting Shito-ryu below Shotokan. As opposed to Funakoshi who actively discouraged sparring, Mabuni Kenwa developed a wide variety of protective armour to be used in full-contact sparring. Traditional shito-ryu schools spar often in a variety of rulesets such as point, continuous point, full contact etc. That was probably the one you are most incorrect on IMO
You mean full contact with bogu? I've never seen a Shito school do knockdown, anyway.
I am not a Karate fighter but many opinions here seem incredibly wrong. I would rank Sport Karate as C and Kudo as B.
@@rafaelbriganti502 Kudo is perfect where it is at S tier. It's essentially MMA in a gi.
Im a Kenpo black belt, but ive moved on from the style years and years ago. It was supposed to be a street version of Karate. I dont disagree with its placement here, but youve got to check out Jeff Speakmans Kenpo 5.0!! Master Parker wanted his students to adapt the art with the times, and mostly no one has at all, except Jeff Speakman. Ive never had the opportunity to train it but there is a lot of footage and info about it. He improved on all the old curriculum and added clinch, more takedowns, and tons of BJJ. It was designed with the mindset of beating an mma fighter in the street. Very cool looking.
Love the videos and always learn something!!
I’ve heard of it! I’ll check it out
Thank you for mentioning this! I love Speakman and is an incredibly great example of how Martial Artists SHOULD evolve their styles especially when they want to uphold Street Applicable reputation they’re so known for!
@@AVarStunts yep. With the sudden popularity of mma and some grappling styles traditional martial artists are gonna have to start drilling some takedowns defense as well as their other street fighting moves
You guys are funny. First of Im also a Kenpo Black Belt. So what big deal right. Well just understand one thing if you never trained in the art youre ranking than its arbitrary ranking at best. Oh and by the way Elvis Presley was a JOKE as far as KENPO goes. My instructor who was taught by Ed Parker and was his friend can tell you the real reason for his promotions. Ed Parker did teach him a LITTLE bit but his only real black belt in which he tested for and got his ass handed to him was in Shotokan Karate. Even Elvis's TKD black Belt (Dan) ranks were honorary.
Uh oh, it's fo da streetz. Too deadly for the ring.
So, inevitably someone hates me by now. IM SORRY. What did I get most wrong? What about most right??
No hate Seth just opinions, you have a great personality and bring fun to your material. Keep them coming! :)
I dont know much about the top one you put in S but idk its a nice list
Of course not, respect a style for what it is
How dare you equate Ameridote to Karate. Pff... Karate is bullshit ;)
Nobody hates you!
Hey guys, interesting discussion. As a first dan in Hawaiian Kenpo, I just wanted to clarify a few things. 1. There is fundamentally no difference between kenpo or Kempo (unless you’re talking about Shorinji Kenpo which is very different to what most people refer to as kenpo since that has a Japanese lineage). The difference in the spelling is simply how the kanji is translated - both the N or M are correct. That’s it. 2. All the Hawaiian Kenpo/Kempo styles claim the same lineage. Kenpo/kempo didn’t originate with Ed Parker as you stated. It started with James Mitose. It continued with his student William Chow, then it splintered from there. This all happened in Hawaii, hence the term Hawaiian kenpo. Mitose called his art Kenpo Juijitsu and later Kosho Ryu Kenpo. Chow called his art Kenpo Karate then later Kara Ho Kenpo. One of Chow’s students was Ed Parker who then brought Chow’s art to the mainland and then took it his own direction. His student, Jeff Speakman, added a lot of ground fighting to modernize it creating Kenpo 5.0. Another of Chow’s students was Adriano Emperado who went on to develop Kajukenbo, a very similar style to Hawaiian Kenpo. Another of Chow’s teachers, Ron Alo, founded my style, Alo Kenpo. Another of Chow’s students went on to teach John Hackleman of “The Pit” Hawaiian Kempo. Hackleman famously coached Chuck Liddel who has rank in his Hawaiian Kempo. Hackleman does state that he wanted to differentiate his version of Kempo by spelling it with the M. He states that his version is more hardcore. He disdains kata, and focusses more on conditioning. Whatever. All I’m saying is that there is no real distinction between Kenpo and Kempo although just like any style, the quality of what you get will range from school to school. In any case, I'd just combine them and would place them at a B level, although I'm still not sure how sport karate would be superior since Kenpo/kenpo has tons of Filipino escrima embedded in the curriculum and we train with sticks and knives a lot, not to mention all of the traditional Okinawan Kobudo weapons as well. Just food for thought. As always, I enjoy your vids. Oss!
I did eight years of Kyokushinkai. I actually moved to Kenpo Karate and found it, in my opinion, when well trained, one of the best and most complete arts around. Tremendous ability to adapt other techniques within the system. I think it is fantastic. I am a 3rd degree brown belt.
When I hear a lot of this stuff I'm confused when it comes to Kenpo. I have learned a lot though and I learned something from you today. I study Mugai Ryu Kenpo. It has been passed down through my family. I see Kenpo as closer to Aki jiu-jitsu than Karate and was taught that it lends itself to willow palms fighting styles...the soft side of Goju, and Hung Gar open hand fighting systems like Wing Chun Taichi Hapkido Chi Na etc. It is a very old sword fighting style though it just predates Karate.. it's kind of like the people that focused on the weapon lost their hands and the people that focused on the hands lost the weapon. That's where all the grappling is. The Hawaiian side of the story fills in a lot of gaps. I don't really know my story but my ancestors were part Filipino before the end of slavery. It's too hard to trace but if that is possible it was a sword style transferred to a stick style transferred back to a sword and passed down through my family... Just sounds unbelievable. It's getting to the point now to where I don't even tell people what my style is anymore unless you understand the word Koryu or shadow arts.
I think we just need to consider that Kempo / Kenpo is the Japanese translation of the Chinese generic term Chaun Fa, meaning the way of the fist. Kenpo styles are very diverse, but they all tend to state a lineage of Japanese / Okinawan arts that have a lineage to Chinese origins. I practice Shorinji Kempo (Shorinji is the Japanese translation of Shaolin) which is a lot different to the American Kenpo styles
@martywylde5910 I'm more familiar with your Kenpo! I study Mugai Ryu Shinden Kenpo. Koryu art, a lot of similarities to Chi Na, and Jujitsu
It was definitely clear listening to you that you don't have any experience with Isshinryu. I practiced it for a number of years back in the 1980s-90s. It is a combat focused style with the majority of US masters having learned it from the founder in Okinawa as US marines during the Korean and Vietnam war periods. I currently practice and teach Tang Soo Do and find myself relying on Isshinryu bunkai in many cases to explain forms still. This was an entertaining video to watch in any case.
Nice video and rankings. After switching from Shotokan to Goju Ryu, there's some things I'd like to point out. There's almost no bunkai in Shotokan. You'd have to at least get a black belt and maybe study superficial Bunkai. Shotokan is very similar to Sports Karate in the sense that it emphasizes going in, attacking and getting out. The problem is that Shotokan (and Sport Karate) does not prepare someone to get hit and respond after getting hit. There's no self defense applications and all fighting scenarios are long distance as Shotokan was Japanized and follows the ma-ai principles from Kendo. The coolest thing about Shotokan though is teaching the mentality of hitting hard with a finishing blow. It is also a rigid Japanese system which is cool as well.
On the other hand you have Goju. Honestly, I tend to compare Goju very much with Uechi. They share similar concepts, circularity, tons of applications. When you do belt testing in Goju, you have to show applications for Katas. The bunkai includes anything from a block and a kick to arm manipulation, joint lock and then projection. There's tons of cool stuff if you look at the Bunkai. Goju's distancing is close range fighting and they also teach you to take hits by conditioning body and mind. If you've seen Goju and Uechi people do Sanchin while getting checked for posture, breathing and tension, you'll know what I'm talking about. Goju is all about relaxation and tensing up in the right moment. When I think Goju I think of a whip, compared to Shotokan which was more of a bat.
For my particular taste, Uechi and Goju would be S tier. Shotokan, Shorin and Kudo A tier. By the way, Shorin is the Okinawan roots version of Shotokan. Shito, Wado, Kempo and Kyokushin would be B. Sport Karate C. Isshin and Kenpo D. Ameridote would probably be XXX and master Ken would approve.
The Ameridote ranking is my favorite lmao
which one do you think you have benefitted more from, shotokan or goju?
@@ninjaman7123 I've benefited from both. But if I had to choose one it would be Goju. What I like about Shotokan is their approach to drilling the basics over and over. It's also a great style to improve your athletic abilities in my opinion. On the other hand, Goju has applications and in some places there's contact kumite (not sports karate kumite). Their focus is on Kata and goes from there. I personally prefer Goju katas to Shotokan katas. Goju has also been kinder to my body as I'm neither a teen or in my 20's. In most Shotokan schools the expectation is for you to perform all the kicks at head level, which depending on the mechanics of the kick and your abilities can be difficult. In Goju most of the kicks are aimed to the groin and legs as showed in the kata.
If there's something else you'd like to know please don't hesitate to ask :)
How would you differentiate Goju-Ryu and Uechi-Ryu?
I'm trying to decide between booth.
I'm shodan in Wado-Ryu by the way. What you said about Shotokan, I'd say it's the same in Wado-Ryu, at least the way I learned it.
Does Goju-Ryu has more focus on grappling? I noticed that Uechi-Ryu uses open hand technique a lot and their stance seems a bit weird to me.
What do you think?
@@ctcm Shotokan is one of most deadly karate if you know to use it properly best in the world very deadly karate
I want to see Master Ken and Sensei Lawrence square up. Than we can see who goes in the “E” Tier for entertainment.
Hahaha love it
I do isshinryu and we spar almost every single class
@@keithhere5292 We aim for light contact, strikes targeting the head, but not touching it. In my school, we spar a lot, but only attend an annual tournament for our group of schools. We also do a lot of drills with harder contact, as well as take-downs and grappling practice.
I did some Isshinryu. They sparred a lot. In fact, some of them became local boxers.
@@nicholassermoneta7981 I'm an isshinryu black belt and we do sparring exactly like kyokushin dudes do. Hell, we even do competitions where we bring isshinryu practitioners to fight kyokushin practitioners. There are the same rules except the fact that in kyokushin competitions they allow the front kick to the face, whether it is maye geri jodan, yoko geri jodan or ushiro geri jodan. We dont do that in isshinryu competitions.
Shorin and goju were combined to create Ishinryu. The founder is Tatsuo Shimabuku.
Exactly, how can anything be less than the sum of it's parts?
You are assuming the merge was of two complete styles, rather than parts of two styles. Plus it's always the combination of the practitioner and their application of the techniques that they know (and use/demonstrate) that determines how someone might judge their style.
@@PKB239
Not necessarily; it's the fusion and synergy of the best of both styles.
Based on the information you all have, I'm not surprised you would rank Isshinryu that low but I would love to have a deeper discussion with you all on the style. My dojo in particular does lots of full contact sparring, grappling, and take downs on top of the katas. I will admit though a lot of Isshinryu schools don't it's very inconsistent.
Sounds like my school, what's your lineage? I'm from the Harold Long lineage.
@@jfhill78 I’m from the same.
I do Kenpo under Bob White who was Ed Parker’s senior Black Belt when he died. He is in his 70s and still going strong in Costa Mesa CA. He was on the US black belt team in the early 70s and they went undefeated including against the Chuck Norris team.The school has multiple sport karate fighters teaching there for the last 30 years. They teach the techniques and kata (forms) with heavy emphasis on technique. They also run sparring and sparring drills most classes. I’m sure there are McDojos out there. I’ve been in multiple martial arts and in the military and this is pretty legit IMHO. Love your channel! Keep it up!
sounds like a dang good program!
Adam Brammero
Also branched from Ed Parker lineage. Ossu
Did Chuck Norris ever admit defeat? Lol
Boooooooooooooo
9:36 "This new and exciting martial art" - the video footage accompanying this is gold xD
Lmaooo thanks!!
Yeah, I trained in Wado for fifteen years and I have no idea what that was.
To be clear, the photo shown during the Goju Ryu segment representing "conditioning" is actually Uechi-Ryu Master Shinyu Gushi (deceased). He was a well respected expert in Kobudo as well as Uechi-Ryu karate.
Yes, I know.
I was taught by my Uncle, Bill Briscoe.....guess He was ok(jk)
I find it interesting that Isshinryu got ranked below both Goju and Shorin , respectively , when Isshin itself is largely a combination of both Goju and Shorin , as Sensei Shimabuku thought to be the best aspects.
crazy right? there's plenty of guys in okinawa that do a combination of goju/shorin + isshin. if one dojo is open MWF you take up TuThSa with another similar style.
The isshinryu gym i went to was ran by a guy who studied directly from the soldiers who brought it back from okinawa in the war... and it was hard core. We sparred nearly full contact, face hits were encouraged, we studied grappling, and applying techniques in self-defense situations, bunkai and weapons... and our tournaments were open to all styles.. the ones i were in had tae kwan do guys, and kung fu.,. etc.. not just isshinryu.
I'm not a big Karate guy but I like Wado and Goju at the moment. I think Wado should be a little higher because it has so much grappling but good vid.
I can see why you'd say that
The disconnect between kata and the techniques is something that bothers me a bit. But still. Kata practice for me tomorrow. I really enjoy more the jujutsu part.
Most of the "grappling" in Wado though is compliant partner drills, and honestly looks more like Aikido than Judo.
Anytime I attended a multi style tournament (WKF basically) the Wado folks weren't any better or worse at takedowns in Kumite than other styles.
@@humann5682 WKF rules suck
What do you pratice?
Fun fact, Almost all Karate Combat fighters are actually sport karate fighters too.
haha thats the point of Karate Combat!! Full contact sport fighters!
Im hooked on Karate Combat! I cant get enough! I want to compete in it. I would die, but it would be so fun.
@Michael Terrell II in a metaphorical sense, yes.
@Michael Terrell II litteraly every samurais ghost: yah nerd, best time ever
I believe that Cobra Kai practices Tang Soo Do, since Pat Johnson was the fight choreographer for original The Karate Kid.
But what style did DC Comic's The Karate Kid practice?
Karate Kid from DC knows all Martial Arts in the galaxy.
Wait that’s a thing??
@@SenseiSeth Yes it was. In the 1970s, to capitalize on the martial arts craze that was kicked off by the popularity of the Billy Jack and Bruce Lee films, the major comic book companies ( Marvel and DC) developed martial arts themed comics.
It really was a craze back then, you should have been there. You saw martial arts everywhere; films, TV shows ( Longstreet, Cleopatra Jones, Kung-fu), books ( Black Samurai, Remo Williams, The Ninja Master), magazines (Inside Karate, Real Karate, Karate Combat, Kung-fu), Saturday morning cartoons ( Hong Kong Phooey), music, commercials, there was even High Karate aftershave. It was either "karoddy" or kung-fu.
Everybody really was " Kung Fu Fighting" , even the Flintstones ( Wilma and Betty were karate black belts), the "best" was TV martial moment was when Ponch was revealed to be a karate master on an episode of CHiPS, featuring Danny from The Partridge Family as a bo-wielding delinquent.
Sorry about that stroll down pop culture memory lane, back to the comics. Marvel had Shang-Chi: Master of Kung-fu and Iron Fist, while DC brought out Kung-fu Fighters and The Karate Kid.
Notice that throughout all of this, although " everybody was kung-fu fighting" , nobody was "aikido tossing" and there was no Aikido Guy superhero.
The Karate Kid ( AKA Val Armor) was a member of the Legion of Superheroes, who hung out with Superboy whenever he time travelled into the 31st century. Unlike the rest of the Legion, he possessed no super powers other than being super skilled in the martial arts and having an ultra developed ki force. In his solo comic series, he is whisked back to the 20th century, where he romanced a kindergarten teacher and battled evildoers.
@GarthanSaal444 May I add their kata (Korean Tang Soo Do) are 'borrowed" from Shotokan. But folks, who are we kidding here? It's the practitioner what makes a karate system effective or just junk. Peace to all.
It’s insane to imagine that Karate kid is in the same universe as Lucifer, Batman, Supernatural
As I scroll through the comments, I am surprised to see so few people discussing Uechi. I have been practicing this style since I was eight years old (I am now 22) and I think that Seth and Jessie got most of what they said about the style correct. However, they missed several critical points in my opinion. First, Uechi focuses heavily on a concept called pangainoon (the style was originally called this) which means half-hard half-soft in English. Through this concept, we focus on hardening our bodies while also keeping ourselves loose in order to move faster which brings up another point I want to address. Conditioning is one of the focal points of Uechi and in my opinion is one of the biggest benefits of the style as a whole. It improves your bone/muscle density and as a result, your body is able to take a lot more hits without being affected. Many practitioners who have conditioned their bodies for decades are so hard that if you hit them it will hurt even as an experienced person practicing martial arts. Lastly, I want to discuss the the flow of power of the body. As I have learned from my practitioners, all power is derived from the ground and the analogy they like to use is that you are a tree and the roots are your feet. However, in order to make the most of your root and generate the most power, you have to be able to move the rest of your body in order to exude the power generated through the exit points being the knuckles, toes, fingers, etc (the soft half of pangainoon). Therefore, Uechi shows you how to channel your energy in a effective way and I believe that it can be very lethal in any sort of application especially when sparring taking the way the need for takedown and grappling techniques (even though they are present in the style). In conclusion, Uechi is a practical karate style that never really gets old because there is always something to work on. For three years, Kanbun Uechi was only allowed to work the foundational kata Sanchin before he was allowed to learn the rest of pangainoon.
If you want to learn more about the history of Uechi, here is a link to more information -
www.zenquestmac.com/uploads/2/5/6/4/25641098/historyofkarate.pdf
Urchi ryu is a wonderful style, I agree that it is under represented
Would love to learn, but, there's no Uechi dojos near me.😔
I can't click the link, thank you for your insight into Uechi, im currently mulling around which karate to take
@@davefletch3063 When it's taught properly with the body conditioning and breath control in sanchin, it scares off most Americans, to say nothing of the Canadians. I can say about the rest of the world. The pain from doing the body conditioning is not something that many people are willing to suffer through anymore.
Also, you cannot start doing the body condition until the latter half of your teens, which makes it hard to really teach the style properly to children. Uechi was already an adult when he studied in China, and he primarily taught adults.
@@evilemperor5325 that is true. Most westerners forget to use the liniment after the conditioning to aid breaking up the bruises. The conditioning is important in a lot of different styles but gets neglected because of cultural softness.
Although my primary martial art has been Choy Li Fut for over half a century, I also spent some time with Bob Yarnell learning Shorin Ryu. Took a little Isshin, Taekwando, Shotokan, and Jeet Kun Do. I found Shorin and Isshin to be very effective for Karate. I haven't even heard of many of the styles you mentioned, but back in the day Bob Yarnell was beating most other styles with Shorin. Back when I was young and hanging out with Bob at his store and school I got to observe many of the Karate legends in person. Chuck Norris, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, and Jim Kelly. Those were the glory days of martial arts. In summation I would have ranked Shorin higher.
Tough job guys! I've practiced Shotokan for 30 years and I actually think you did a great job! In my experience, Shotokan is a tough, linear style and when practiced properly -- very effective. The downside I've found with Shotokan is that there is often a lack of mobility until you reach higher levels -- and even then, not enough is some cases. I was really surprised one day when I went to work out with some sport karate practitioners and their mobility was outstanding. They may lack the big power of traditional Shotokan but when you only need 75% to knock your opponent out, it doesn't matter. I would take the mobility and a bit less power. In terms of the grappling and take down - Jessie is right on that it's not a focus. Occasionally we do it but not to any extent. The other issue I found with Shotokan is that it takes too long to be effective at Kumite (fighting) - It's like a university degree in the sense that it doesn't really become useful until you are graduating. This is due to the extensive focus on repetition, perfection of technique and the staged learning process. The end result is intended to produce explosive speed and power. Bottom line is that a properly trained Shotokan black belt with the required years of hard work will be a tough customer.
Super tough job. I appreciate the info my friend!! Thanks!
@@SenseiSeth Shotokan was totally destroyed by Kyokushinkai many times.
I'm kudo practitioner and i was really surprised when i saw kudo was involved and even rated that high, even though it's not that popular outside Japan, Russia, Ukraine and some middle East countries. I'm glad that my fav style is getting populized in the West.
Is kudo classes rare? I cant find any in California
@@chrisortega7124,
Yes. It's very popular in the European countries though.
It's a bad ass style bro, looks like MMA but with a gi and head protection
In Asia is very rare. In Vietnam there are only 2 places.
I practice Kudo in Chile, South America!
i love this!. My top 3 is: Kudo, kyokushin, Kempo (shorinji) for all this full contact sparring. It seems to be more realistic for me.
Cheers from Chile! ;)
As a Kudo fighter, I'm satisfied with this tier list. Cobra Kai is in my heart though lol
OSS
Why the kudo is so popular in Russia?
@@csabafamin2277 it's a well rounded and realistic combat sport and it's relatively safer than no-gi MMA.. The question is why it's so unpopular in the world? And the answer is that grand master Azuma Takashi was late with his world tour because UFC already happened and took over the world.
By the way, I'm training in Canada, not Russia :)
@@MA-fi1ie I wish to have a kudo karate gym here in the Philippines but only shotokan, goju-ryu and kyukushin. The most appealing to me is kudo because I see it as a more practical karate.
Cobra Kai use Tang Soo Do-Korean karate.
I studied isshinryu for 9 years. It is a very disciplined fighting style that taught me everything I know about self defense and inner personal strength. Sadly I stopped at the last belt before black. I wish to go back one day and achieve the ran of sho Dan.
Fun fact, Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama was Both Goju and Shotokan Black Belt.
Kyokushin dojos teaches kata and bunkai too. And practices with head punches. Only during bare knuckle dojo fights/grading fights/ kyokushin rule tourneys face punches are not allowed.
I'd be willing to bet Jesse knew that! I did not though lol
@@SenseiSeth All Kyokushin Katas and Bunkais are from Goju and Shotokan. For example Seienchin/seipai and Pinan katas.
@@SenseiSeth and Sensei, GOAT Bas Rutten is a Kyokushin guy.
I kinda agree with your list except the sport karate one but you and Jesse sensei obviously have more experience than me ❤️
I'd love to see either of you enjoy a proper kyokushin grading session. I could't bend my legs for days properly after my 5 kyu grading after 8 fights, and seiza was not possible after two weeks 😂 seriously to compare the competition styles to another don't mean squat. Way I see it as a wierd karate family does all the same stuff but claim the others do it wrong 😂
@@andreas0s I agree. Kyokushin may lack some elements but it is the most brutal among all. It's like bad boy of Karate.
Have you ever heard of enshin karate? They hold a tournament called sabaki challenge every year in Denver and it looks like kyokushin and judo
i have not! I'll google
@@SenseiSeth It comes from Kyokushin along with Ashihara. They both look pretty legit and I'd love to take either!
If you TH-cam one of the 90's tournaments it almost looks like an intense karate kid tournament
Master Ken is prolly gonna re-re-stomp the groin for this 1
dang right lol
I learned Wado-Ruy in end of 80’s, and in training you don’t do full contact, you have to stop your hit 0,2 inches before contact. You take it in only in the real situation. But stopping your kick or hit so close takes a lot of discipline.
I practice currently since the 90s and basically you pull your strikes. You won't lose points for following through but it's bad form when sparring. Of course there is no striking below the belt (sweeps are allowed) and no striking straight to the face or back of the head, all during sparring of course.
Interesting. Whenever we did kumite, we followed semi-contact rules with protective equipment. Contact was required for a point, but too much force was not permitted. It took me a long time for me to appreciate how much control I had gained as a result.
Enjoyed the analysis and how you discussed the different styles. Agree with you that Kyokushin's "weakness" lies in the fact that when we (most of us) practice dojo-fight (kumite), then our sparring is very influenced by our competition rules, where bare-knuckled face-punches are banned for good reason. I looked amongst the comments, and may have overlooked it, but could not find anyone mentioning that not long before he passed away, Sosai Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin, started to talk about the Kyokushin Genesis; the "New" Kyokushin. Certainly many Kyokushin-practitioners now have started questioning how the art has been thought the past 30-40 years. The fact that 75% of all the techniques shown in Masutatsu Oyama's three major books; "What is Karate", "This is Karate" and "Advanced Karate" is illegal according to our competition rules, should tell you something. Sosai Oyama devoted a whole chapter in This is Karate to Ne-Waza (ground fighting techniques). And when you start analyzing the kata and kihon, it is full of locks and throws. Traditional Kyokushin is "MMA" as good as any. I recommend checking out Shihan Cameron Quinn, or Shihan Terry Birkett (there are many-many others also), and their approach to the art. In my opinion, the Kyokushin Genesis is certainly a wave in it's mere beginning, and it will be exiting to follow it as it grows.
What a hard topic. Respects for doing this.
I agreed with 70% of it but that's me. Kyokushin is definitely A. Punches to the face aren't allowed in tournaments but they are used in the Dojo. Ashihara Karate and Enshin weren't there. Watch "Sabaki Challenge". Sport Karate is definitely a C points is a D. As its not preparation for your criteria. Wado, Shotokan and Shito should all be D as their Sparring is the Sanbomne Kumite. Points is bad.
Kudo is awesome
If they’re still used in the dojo it’s a big game changer
Shotokan sparring is not Sanbomne Kumite. At least that's not the canonical way to spar
⁰00000000000000999000o000000900000o00000000000000000000pp0
@@SenseiSeth absolutely depends on the dojo. I train to avoid hands to the head in case students choose to compete. However, I also train students to adapt. With a good guard and good basic mechanics for upper chest punches, a practitioner can operate in a match with head punches.
We do kihon to the head though
Dude, I'm Wado-Ryu. I had to look up what Sanbomne Kumite is. We definitely had real sparring (our dojo used the Kyokushin rules). Sparing hits to the head are also much lighter btw. It does not compare to something like a boxing tournament in terms of how hard you get hit (unless you piss of your sparing partner).
Kyokushin/Kyokushinkai is definitely one of the more controversial ones, but as this is supposed to be ON AVERAGE, B is completely understandable. I lucked out in my Kyokushinkai education but the art literally took a HUGE shift in its first generation of existence. If you want more info I can fill you in
Most traditional martial arts have shifted for the worse. Unfortunate!
@@SenseiSeth
For sure! My dojo was obsessed with the original Kyokushinkai. When Mas Oyama made it, it was a pool of all his knowledge
7th Dan Goju-Ryu which had LOADS of grappling with techniques similar to wrestling, sumo and judo. Takedowns, throws, submissions, etc
4th Dan Shotokan which also had some Daito-ryu/aikijutsu style grappling
4th Dan Kodokan Judo, literally the original Kyokushin was kudo
Plus techniques were taken from whatever Kyokushin fought
His old videos describing Kumite and demonstrating technique showed him doing head punches, body and head elbows, etc. Originally he allowed it all plus grappling. But his golden boy student never took it that far. He learned the striking really well (especially kicking) and was one of the 3 fighters sent by the school to Thailand to fight Nak Muay under Muay Thai rules. Originally it was a different 3rd guy but he got sick or something so they replaced him with the golden boy (Kenji Kurosaki who also, with Kancho Oyama, founded Kyokushinkaikan) who did not have time to prep for his fight. So the first two kyokushin fighters won but Kurosaki lost. He then learned japanese kickboxing (Kyokushin plus western boxing, figuring his lack of boxing skill was why he lost and not because he didnt have time to train for his fight while the other 2 did which would be a huge factor). Then this Dutch guy named Jan Plas trained with him in the original Meijiro Gym (and helped him run it for quite a while), took what he learned back to Amsterdam and started Dutch Kickboxing. So if you want to count Dutch KB as karate, you technically would not be wrong either
You can also look into ashihara since last I heard they were heavy on elbows and trying to put face punches and grappling back into Kyokushin.
Sorry if this was a bit long, but I figured it might interest you! Great vid as always!
@julio1c1saga
Different places honestly. The history of the rule changes in kyokushin is very spotty and not completely known. Reading about the early life of Mas Oyama will give you his education in martial arts and outlook when creating Kyokushinkai. Looking into the story of the time Kyokushin fought Muay Thai is another piece. And looking up the formation of Dutch kickboxing gives you yet another part
Just check out Oyama's master student Jon Bluming, who was also a Kodokan Judoka and a honored student of the Kodokan (he focussed on throwing opponents to the floor and finshing them with Kosen Judo (ne waza) techniques like in BJJ) he literally mixed Judo with Kyokushin and started his "Kyokushin Budokai" style in the 80's.
@@makesenz
It’s still pathetic that “WORLD OYAMA” wouldn’t have the actual education. Just plain sad
But thank you for the info! Maybe this can be the most informative Kyokushinkai thread on TH-cam
I was waiting to see whether Kudo would be respected. It was nice to see that you recognise it’s roots of Jukucho Azuma Takashi (Kyokushin/Judo) Interesting that you describe it as a modern sport as that’s what Kudo is but the art is Daido Juku and remains the foundation of cultivation and community development in line with the wishes of Jukucho. There are no Kata in the art as they were dropped to allow further development and evolution of the art by the influences of other arts. I understand you are building your content and brands guys but support more at grass roots by giving light to others. With respect Kudo Mal ;)
yea, not really a style, but a dope sport!
absolutely.
@@SenseiSeth I agree, find an official Branch and go and do a video, they will look after you. Budo is what connects us, would be a dope thing to do for your channel and it would help spread the word. Thanks for your reply. Now hashbrown it and send it to the internet ;) #cobrakai
Kudo style tournaments are what I would like to see karate gravitate towards for the sport aspect.
I wish this style was much bigger in the USA. I think it is alot tougher than sport karate. Sport karate of the 1970's was MUCH different than today's game of "tag'' Kudo looks like a streamlined martial arts, no kata etc.
As a black belt in Isshinryu, I can confidently say, we *do* spar.
Jess, Seth, you gentlemen are my definition of a martial arts dream team. Keep up the phenomenal work, brothers.
I was happy with the list until you put Ameridote at F. Unsubbed
Lolol
@@SenseiSeth List is probably spot-on, though. Thanks for helping me figure out which style to try next!
yes i agree. most "traditional" styles need a mix to make them well rounded.
yep! people are evolving
Can anyone name a major 'style', classical or modern, that isn't made up of techniques and mindsets from others.
I think most of styles were intended for practical use at first and tried to enrich their base with everything that was within reach. Not all of them lasted long enough to get in contact with most of the world though, and sometimes that also meant that a lot of work was simply lost.
Awesome video, do a ranking tier on Korean arts, Taekwondo, Taekkyon, Hapkido, Tukong Moosul, Tang Soo Do, Mu Do Kwan, Hwa Rang Do, kook sul won
Interesting, I live in Northern Japan and practice Isshin and it is far closer to your description of Kyokushin than your description of Isshin. We do a lot of kumite, in fact most of our training is conditioning, technique practice against pads, and kumite. In nearly a year we have rarely practiced kata.
I’m just here to play devil’s advocate
In UFC 1 Gerard Gordeau a Kyokushin Karate guy to 2nd/runner up only to Royce.
UFC 3 Harold Howard a Gōjū-ryū Karate guy took 2nd place runner up.
Early UFC’s are a great marking point for effectiveness of pure styles (as close as you can get) Almost of of the karate base guys did well until they met Royce or a wrestler. Pat Smith a kenpo BB won the Sabaki Tournament (The most popular kyokushin style tournament in the USA at the time) at Heavyweight before he fought in the UFC.
Sport Karate has guys like Raymond Dainels and Michael Venom Page who fought world
class competition in kickboxing and mma
I'm Shotokan black belt and about stop after hit the oponent is something we do intentionally in shiai kumite (sport fight) but we train in jiyu kumite (free sparring) combinations and continous techniques focused in self defense, even some ground game.
But the most important aspect of our style is that our training is focused to develop power to "kill" a opponent with a single blow, the "Todome Waza", is the perfect strike, that cleanest and powerfull strike, the claimed "one punch knockout". But to do that is not just a matter of power, but also precision and specially timing. Lyoto Machida applied this perfectly in the UFC.
Osu! Very fun video!
Go ju ryu black belt here! I trained in a very traditional dojo, we did like everything ground, takedows and mostly striking. Also we did a lot of kata and bunkai. Despite that i had a lot of problems in my transition to kickboxing because of the lack of competition.
I belive that for A and S class full contact competition should be mandatory
I just started training in this and I noticed there isn't a lot of sparring. Is this common across the goju ryu dojos?
Also how long did it take you to get your black belt? I ask because theres white belts in my dojo who have not been promoted in almost 2 years of training.
@@kevintaulbee6433 Go Ju Ryu dojos tend to be very different one to another. In my case we did a lot of sparring but mostly light contact.
And for my blackbelt, like 9 years (I trained for 12).
My sensei did not give blackbelts exams to underage people so i did it at age 18 (Until he gave one to a 14 year old, thats when i left hahaha)
Man I do not think Kudo is S tier...but aight. Many Kyokushin associations are now adopting strikes to the face (with the kudo head gear) in general kumite. Also, Kyokushin has all of the kata from Shotokan and many from Uechi Ryu as well, with some very complex forms exceeding 50+ movements. Elbow strikes ARE allowed in kyokushin kumite as well as sweeps, and the earliest kata bunkai's include many judo sweeps and throws! Not saying your ranking is incorrect, but there's some missing information. Love the vids bro!
OSU ! I started training under Tadashi Nakamura and Nobuyuki Kishi ( uchi deshi of Mas Oyama ) in 1976. Back then Kaicho Nakamura had just resigned as Chief Instructor of kyokushin and Started Seido Juku. After some time Shihan Kishi returned to Kyokushin in NYC. His classes were long and tough all ended with a long Kumite session. Sosai Oyama was a Yon Dan in Judo, Shotokan, Goju Ryu so in fact Kyokushin is a combination of all. we used many judo throws and rolls back then for take downs, you are correct in saying that grappling is not a part of most Kyokushin Dojo's. As history of Kyokushin states the early kumite had face and groin strikes. GSP - Bas Rutten - Andy Hug ( watch his K1 matches - K1 was started by a Kyokushin Group) to name just a few may differ from the rating given. Thank You !
I did Isshin Ryu briefly while in highschool. Didn't realize how rare it was at the time.
Omg to of the best karate practitioners on TH-cam all we need is Sweet T and Wonderboy and this is for the history books!😱
Imagine!!
@@SenseiSeth I know 😱😱😱😱 that would be incredible
I think the big problem in ranking these is that even within the "style" themselves, everyone practices it differently so end up making up a lot of broad strokes in what each practitioner would learn
Surprised you put Shotokan so high up. I trained it until 3rd kyu when I was younger (in Denmark), and it didn't feel all that combat focused. Sure, we did some light sparring, but it was mostly solo drilling and kata, as far as I remember.
Hmmm.. that’s interesting to hear
Yes, these styles are like dancing... that just has no chance against MMA, Boxing, Muay Thai, Kyokushin, Kickboxing...
Master Ken cited Lyoto Maschida, who is to date the best karate fighter in MMA, much better than his brother. He was a shotokan practitioner. You do not know about what you are talking.
Yeah it is really focused in competitions instead of practical stuff basically like sport karate
@@MarcoAntonioRidenti I know what I am talking about. I do Shotokan and Kyokushin and I have high rank in belts, so I really know what I am talking about. Lyoto Machida is master in Shotokan style, but he still has MMA universal training. Techniques from Shotokan are very good and could be really deadly and efficient, but if you do Shotokan, you do not get used to being hit, you cant really stand attacks. I am not attacking this style, I am just telling reality. Advantages of Shotokan are speed, quick power, technique and accuracy. Disadvantages are weaker body, not getting used to being hit, bad work on ground.
Instead of saying trash, be educated better in the topic. ;)
Osu from Czech sensei of Shotokan and Kyokushin styles.
I’m an Isshin Ryu black belt. All I got out of this was that Seth wasn’t familiar with it, so he gave it a ‘D’.
There was a time when Angi Uezu was working as a security guard and a belligerent American soldier threw a punch at Angi Uezu’s head. Angi Uezi blocked. The fight was over. He broke the guy’s arm. So…I guess that’s a ‘D’. Seriously, I know well how the style has been pressure tested, and specific people who have defended themselves in a street situation and it has worked just fine.
It’s all just fun and games until someone loses a knee.
Wado-Ryu guy here and I think Tatsuya Naka would disagree with your assessment of Wado-Ryu. When he visited Grandmaster Otsuka III, Naka was blown away by his technique and the technicality of Wado-Ryu, so much so that he simply couldn't replicate them easily. Bunkai is also practiced extensively in Wado-Ryu with many interpretations and useful applications. If you speak to a lot of 80s karate competitors, they will also tell you that Wado and Shotokan fighters generally made it to the finals, so on the arguments based above, you really should have Wado karate in the A category.
Wado karateka here!
I’d just like to add that you’re mistaken about our kata in regards to bunkai.
The bunkai in our kata is very much enforced within Wado training and within my training personally, I was trained from day 1 to have the bunkai at the forefront of mind when performing every move in every kata/combination. This is what adds so much strength and speed to a lot of the Wado karateka’s kata/combination work - the embedded bunkai knowledge. We can also be very intense when it comes to kumite and our sparring can be very full on (full contact).
I find that when it comes to competing (outside of WKF comps), it mainly (not always of course) comes down to Wado and Shotokan karateka’s as the final competitors. I think the fact we have such strong competition against Shotokan karateka’s (with their strong stances and attacks), it shows Wado karateka’s are very much full on and intense when it comes to our kata and kumite.
Wado has advanced a lot since Hironori founded the style and I think the outlook of our style is a little outdated. But this was interesting to watch! Thank you 😊
As a Wado guy, I do wish that we had more kata, if only for competition variety. I've only ever done a handful of kata in competition; kushanku, shinto, seishan and basai-dai. Nianchi is far too short and neeshayshee never felt fun for me. Wanshu is great, especially that reverse jump spinning shuto-uke, but I never really got the chance to use it in tournaments.
In the Netherlands, I used to practise Karate in a Dojo that teached Kyokushin, and the students actually learned face-punching and how to defend it, but I believe you when you say it is rare these days.
Where in the netherlands is it located?
Im looking into karate schools.
@@Tomdebom in Purmerend, Noord-Holland
@@wisserenssen9839 dankje!
@@Tomdebom graag gedaan!
They don't know they foot from they hand, EVERYONE knows Ameridote is "A" level
It was very entertaining. Thank you. One word about Kyokushin. Like any style of karate, it has many versions and schools, as you probably know. What I would like to add about Kyokushin is that Kyokushin itself has been changing for several years and the techniques allowed during the competition now, are undercuts and brought down to the ground floor. In addition, I attended the dojo myself, where, apart from sports fighting, we learned to fight without competition rules as well as self-defense. Although less time is spent on it.
Osu
Isshin should be atleast a B to be honest, It focused a lot on defense and has a lot of background story and pretty useful in situations.
I watch you and Jesse quite a bit. You've produced some really good, quality content. I've seen both of you defend the positive aspects of Karate for years. However, what I haven't seen on your channels is a solution to the Karate problem. The monetization of the name of Karate has reduced it's credibility over the years. Little kids with black belts, McDojos, silly no touch masters, and chi energy. These are the reasons that Karate is largely a joke in the eye of the martial arts community. On top of that, there are dojos that only practice kata, and claim that they're training you to be a deadly weapon! The Karate reputation is damaged.
But...
The problem isn't in the styles. You're right, quality does vary from dojo to dojo, and its because there's a large number of dojos who have refused to acknowledge that the world has adapted, changed and evolved. We cannot rely on techniques that require a compliant partner! The enemy will not let you win! We cannot claim to be teaching people how to protect themselves in a fight without giving them any actual practice fighting! For years I heard Sensei after Sensei answer the question of what to do on the ground with: "There's a reason they call the dead on the battlefield 'the fallen'" Well, I hate to break it to you, half the violent altercations end up on the ground, incorporate some ground fighting!
Over the course of my long and diverse martial arts career, I've witnessed the error of our ways, and I have resolved to change the direction of our art, or the very least, influence it.
This small phrase embodies a simple solution to everything wrong with Karate:
* To be a fighter, you must fight, so prepare for combat in all forms, because the enemy will not let you win. *
This is the guiding principal of my school. It may seem contrary to traditional rules of Karate, but if we ever hope to change the reputation of our art, we need to change the way we think about it. After all, If we don't learn from the mistakes of the past, we are doomed to repeat them.
Part of the solution should be showing people the practical applications. If they wanna say Karate is joke, back up your stance. Karate, if you have a good understanding of it, I’d very applicable and easily proven to be useful. Lots of mixed martial artists incorporate karate to some capacity or another as well. The problem with karate really is that traditionally it was “kill or be killed” which doesn’t really fly anymore. You can go out and gouge peoples’ eyes out in the street. However, you CAN put someone on their ass, or block a strike so hard that their arms or shins get welts. If people preserved the art and allowed karate to outlast other styles, karate wins. I would imagine that’s a reason why there’s such an emphasis on funds and outdoing other dojos, but I could be wrong.
Rip sensei seth, he's damned no matter where he puts what style
Truth lol
I sense a stomp to the groin.
Damn, doin isshinryu dirty, but I do agree. That style all depends on the teacher tbh
I wouldn't say dirty! totally depends
@@SenseiSeth nah I definitely agree my guy
Depends on the instructor for sure! I’ve trained Isshinryu for about 12 years and I was super lucky to have a great instructor. He’s great at balancing the art side of martial arts with practical self defense and sparring. Definitely done a bit dirty here but I can understand, if the instructor sucks it’ll be useless just like any other martial art.
It's an instructor yea, but the branch is a huge part
@@DONTHATETHEPLAYA321 instructor is the biggest tho
I am currently doing Isshin-Ryu here in the US (Knoxville, Tennessee area), so there is a lot of history with it here. We frequently do Kumite (Sparring for those that don't speak the language). It is light to moderate contact, much like I did in Tae-Kwon-Do years ago.
Isshinryu schools in the 90s used to include diagrams on where to hit for fluid shock and organ rupturing, the kids got the same lesson plan as the adults then the american schools changed it up late 90s early 2000s. Extra belts added and different lessions for adults and kids.
Fair analysis. I'm still glad Shotokan ended up in B 😂
Dojo waku!
Shotokan is one of the best karate styles
It's crazy to think it's better than Isshinryu. They just don't know much about Isshinryu.
They rated Cobra kai, why not miyagi-do? I don't know if it's one of the styles already rated though.
It pretty much is
Cobra-Kai is actually Taekwondo I'm pretty sure
@@jeremiahiwinski1401 This is just my opinion, but I really don't think it's taekwondo. I study in a Dojang that also teaches WTF taekwondo so I see them train a lot. And WTF taekwondo almost never have their hands up in fighting. ITF seems closer, but they still don't usually have their hands up in tournaments either, although they sometimes do in non tournament fights.
The most telling mark is in the robby vs miguel fight, where miguel's stance goes pretty low and on his flat foot. Taekwondo players almost always have a higher stance (Also miguel has his hands up). Even in the original karate kid, Lawrence also has his guard up. Mix in the fact that their original fight choreographer was a tang soo do grandmaster, which makes it more likely that it is tang soo do.
I can understand the confusion though, since Taekwondo and TangSooDo have basically the same roots (Takkyeon and Subak) and both styles have a lot of kicks but TangSooDo was influenced by Shotokan Karate as well.
@@sig1761 That's fair.
Cobra kai is Tangsudo - “Korean shotokan”. The one, that Chuck Norris practiced.
I like the close range techniques of Goju and Wado. Many real fights will be in close range.
You guys have mad stones to do this video! I think we all agree that a lot of this depends on the individual, the instructor and other factors. This is going to be entertaining!
Great
Thanks for the quick and dirty description of the styles and explaining your ranking philosophy.
Love both you guys and your work. You too Icy Mike
Ed Parker Jr lives up here in NE Oregon, like 25 miles away from my house. He's a pretty nice guy.
He is indeed! I am from the Netherlands, and he gave seminars to me when I participated at the World championship in Spain and the Netherlands in 2011 and 2012.
Shito-Ryu Brown Belt here! Shito is pretty kata heavy because it's kind of a like a hybrid style, but it's true that it's pretty theory-focused. I learn a lot about technique, body mechanics, and fundamentals during kata, so I'm confident the things we practice in kata and bunkai work with sufficient force if you ever needed the muscle memory to perform them in a real crisis, but I do feel like I wish I had a lot more practical enlightenment.
KUDO LOOKS LIT, like wow they were fighting hard and the style looks THE most complete🥋
Well it’s multiple styles.. so yes!
@@SenseiSeth I like how Karate went full circle original Karate was complete like that then it became all their own segregated traditions then it went back to being whole again with Kudo lol. We live in a society. Humans are weird!
Exactly. Kudo is no doubt the best Karate style. It's a hybrid martial art consist of Kyokushin, Boxing, Muay Thai and Judo. It's basically a Japanese MMA before UFC were created.
Everyone knows Dux Ryu is the best because it teaches you the Dim Mak, and gets you a movie where you’re played by Jean Claude Can Damme.
I studied isshinryu for over 20 years I love it the school I went to did alot of self defense techniques during class. I still can't make a fist without the thumb on top after doing it since 1999
I'm a taekwondo practitioner myself but I grew up on kajukenbo basically hawaiian street karate
Just surprised by the comment on wado. When I passed my 1st Dan (at the same time as some guys from other styles), the bunkais we were doing were way better than most other guys.
We were better in fighting, throws, groundwork, AND bunkais. And clearly not as good as shotokan and goju people in kyon and Kata.
I agree that Kudo is the best one. But well its because there is no best style and that one is combining two styles.
True that!
I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate and Japanese Ju-jitsu. And I find both styles to be excellent for self defense! For me personally I study more for the philosophies and being a kind person! This was a fun and excellent video I have also started my journey into Iaido I think I spelt that right and it it truly beautiful. Great video sending love and peace!
Not gonna argue over placement in the rankings, but some of the aspects of Goju were missing.
Like multiple-person kumite (consecutive kumite matches), Kobudo, tegumi, randori, ne waza.
At least, that's what we do in my Goju Ryu dojo here in the UK.
One major criticism I do have of Goju however, is that there's no punches to the face in kumite.
Punches to the face all over the place in Kata and bunkai, just not in kumite.
Also, kyokushin has roots within Goju Ryu. Forgot to add that.
Well Cobra Kai is based on Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan, which itself is heavily rooted in Shotokan with some influences of Taekkyon and Subak, so placing it in the same level with Shotokan was definitely the right move.
I said the same thing. Cobra Kai is Tang Soo Do/TKD
Shorin-ryu gets S tier.
My first day as a white belt was sparring day. The whole day (after 45 minutes of warmup, stretching and conditioning) was sparring and I had to fight the brown belt, twice my age and size.
It hurt.. a lot. The good ol days.
i do wado ryu, and we’ve done some pretty crazy stuff. neck throws, arm locks etc. the main thing is about body control and movement,
Exchange Wado with sport karate. Takedowns, close quarters, submisions and holds. Its like kudo but with shotokan and jiujitsu
I love Kyokushin. It changed my perspective of Karate. Just wish I kept up with it.
You can still go back to it.