Hi mr Radford, thanks again for a wonderfull video! I could not agree more: the equal temperament does not have the colours that classic temperaments do have. However: you can also discuss the topic of the modern grand piano. Is it the right instrument to play Mozart? I mean: the pianofortes of his era are in no way comparable with the modern Steinway! Pianofortes do not have the fortissimo that a Steinway does have, the (viennese) action plays totaly different (key depth is far less, repetition is totally different), the inharmonicity of the strings is not comparable , and so on and so on! So I think that perhaps the best way to hear Mozart is when it is played on a pianoforte in a classic temperament, and in these days there are magnificent craftsmen as Paul mc Nulty who makes fantastic replicas of these instruments! By the way: have you ever tried the Bach Lehman temperament?
I have tuned and worked on a McNulty pianoforte for concerts and they are indeed wonderful sounding instruments, albeit a bit delicate in terms of functionality. As I said in the video, I'm all for pianofortes and harpsichords, but if an artist is going to choose to perform Mozart on a modern piano, why not use a tuning appropriate for Mozart, such as a 1/6 comma meantone, instead of Equal Temperament? I did another entire series of videos on that subject alone: Was Mozart mean? th-cam.com/video/n91EwZHXUtc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dXo5zJhSty5iZupV And yes, I'm familiar with the Lehmann Bach tuning.
I'm a beginner and not really a musician. But I did ask Yamaha about changing the tuning on my digital keyboard, and i would be able to do it if I wanted it. But my ear isn't that good so I would have to rely on someone like you or my Pitch Correction app. Maybe you could have an App that could use digital keyboards to program different tunings.
I'm no authority on digital keyboards, however I'm sure there are many keyboard available that can easily change between different types of tunings. However, I find that digital keyboards don't have the same warmth and feeling as acoustic pianos, so unfortunately often the emotional impact of alternate tunings is often not as profound as it is an acoustic piano.
@donniegillum1867 'Classical tuning' refers to any and all Well Temperaments in general, of which there are many. When I refer to the Thomas Young Well Temperament, I'm referring to Thomas Young number 1
Sorry but I don't agree with the statement that all composers from late Beethoven to Rachmaninoff 'basically composed for a modern piano'. They did have a double action escapement mechanism (for instance in Beethoven's 1818 Broadwood grand, Broadwood actually introduced this mechanic in 1783 and Haydn and Clementi already had such instruments) but at the same time single action keyboards were still produced well into the 19th century. Further significant differences include: - aliquot strings (non-struck 1 octave higher resonators) were added to the piano only by Julius Blüthner from 1873 onwards - felt tip hammers were only introduced by Jean-Henri Pape in 1826 - full cast iron frames became common only later in the 19th century, starting with Chickering in the 1840s and Steinway in 1855 While Beethoven's Broadwood grand was mechanically identical to a modern piano, the sound wasn't. Having a partially wooden frame meant less string tension and a less stable tuning. No aliquot strings meant less sonic clarity and less harmonic overtones. Leather hammer heads meant a drier, harsher and more percussive sound. Composers like Reger and Rachmaninoff had a tendency to use a ton of chromatic counterpoint or colouration in their works. They could do that because they wrote for modern pianos with highly precise tuning and plenty of sympathetic overtones on each note. You could technically play all of their works on an 1840 Erard with 7 octaves but it would lack clarity and turn into chromatic sludge.
All great points. The piano has gone through many changes over the last 300 years and continues to do so. At what point we start calling it a modern piano, and depending and what innovation makes it so, is probably up for debate. Nevertheless, most performers continue to play the music of those earlier composers, usually on not on the earlier instruments, but mostly on today’s modern pianos in modern tunings, despite the fact that original tunings would sound better for much of the music.
This video was just as fun the second time around :) still into your video editing.
Do you know of any modern recordings featuring a well-tempered piano? Is it possible Ronald Brautigam is using a well-temperament?
@@johnelsworth2556 I’m not aware of any on modern pianos, but others might be able to chime in on that better than I can.
Hi mr Radford, thanks again for a wonderfull video! I could not agree more: the equal temperament does not have the colours that classic temperaments do have.
However: you can also discuss the topic of the modern grand piano. Is it the right instrument to play Mozart? I mean: the pianofortes of his era are in no way comparable with the modern Steinway! Pianofortes do not have the fortissimo that a Steinway does have, the (viennese) action plays totaly different (key depth is far less, repetition is totally different), the inharmonicity of the strings is not comparable , and so on and so on! So I think that perhaps the best way to hear Mozart is when it is played on a pianoforte in a classic temperament, and in these days there are magnificent craftsmen as Paul mc Nulty who makes fantastic replicas of these instruments!
By the way: have you ever tried the Bach Lehman temperament?
I have tuned and worked on a McNulty pianoforte for concerts and they are indeed wonderful sounding instruments, albeit a bit delicate in terms of functionality. As I said in the video, I'm all for pianofortes and harpsichords, but if an artist is going to choose to perform Mozart on a modern piano, why not use a tuning appropriate for Mozart, such as a 1/6 comma meantone, instead of Equal Temperament? I did another entire series of videos on that subject alone: Was Mozart mean? th-cam.com/video/n91EwZHXUtc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dXo5zJhSty5iZupV And yes, I'm familiar with the Lehmann Bach tuning.
I'm a beginner and not really a musician. But I did ask Yamaha about changing the tuning on my digital keyboard, and i would be able to do it if I wanted it. But my ear isn't that good so I would have to rely on someone like you or my Pitch Correction app.
Maybe you could have an App that could use digital keyboards to program different tunings.
I'm no authority on digital keyboards, however I'm sure there are many keyboard available that can easily change between different types of tunings. However, I find that digital keyboards don't have the same warmth and feeling as acoustic pianos, so unfortunately often the emotional impact of alternate tunings is often not as profound as it is an acoustic piano.
When speaking of classical tuning, are you referring to Thomas Young’s #1 or?🤷🏼♂️😊
@donniegillum1867 'Classical tuning' refers to any and all Well Temperaments in general, of which there are many. When I refer to the Thomas Young Well Temperament, I'm referring to Thomas Young number 1
@ Thank you for actually responding!😊 (I enjoy your videos! 👍😊)
Is the Young’s well temperament 1 your favorite tuning?
Depends a lot on the composer and the era, but generally for classical music, yes.
Sorry but I don't agree with the statement that all composers from late Beethoven to Rachmaninoff 'basically composed for a modern piano'. They did have a double action escapement mechanism (for instance in Beethoven's 1818 Broadwood grand, Broadwood actually introduced this mechanic in 1783 and Haydn and Clementi already had such instruments) but at the same time single action keyboards were still produced well into the 19th century.
Further significant differences include:
- aliquot strings (non-struck 1 octave higher resonators) were added to the piano only by Julius Blüthner from 1873 onwards
- felt tip hammers were only introduced by Jean-Henri Pape in 1826
- full cast iron frames became common only later in the 19th century, starting with Chickering in the 1840s and Steinway in 1855
While Beethoven's Broadwood grand was mechanically identical to a modern piano, the sound wasn't. Having a partially wooden frame meant less string tension and a less stable tuning. No aliquot strings meant less sonic clarity and less harmonic overtones. Leather hammer heads meant a drier, harsher and more percussive sound.
Composers like Reger and Rachmaninoff had a tendency to use a ton of chromatic counterpoint or colouration in their works. They could do that because they wrote for modern pianos with highly precise tuning and plenty of sympathetic overtones on each note. You could technically play all of their works on an 1840 Erard with 7 octaves but it would lack clarity and turn into chromatic sludge.
All great points. The piano has gone through many changes over the last 300 years and continues to do so. At what point we start calling it a modern piano, and depending and what innovation makes it so, is probably up for debate. Nevertheless, most performers continue to play the music of those earlier composers, usually on not on the earlier instruments, but mostly on today’s modern pianos in modern tunings, despite the fact that original tunings would sound better for much of the music.