Excellent video. Your soldering technique is solid. Those LF ball valves can be a trick if not done properly. You covered the biggest mistake most people make and that's slathering on too much flux and then the solder runs down the pipe to chase the flux. Usually if I'm doing in inverted solder joint (the bottom of the valve where the lower pipe meets the valve) I'll heat up the pipe, then use a rag to wipe off any excess flux which sweats down before I apply the weld, that way I don't get the candlestick effect. But you clearly used the right amount of flux so it didn't go sliming up the pipe. Thank you for the time and effort you put into making this video to show folks how to do it the right way.
Definitely one of the best videos on how to solder LF ball valves out there. You hit all the important points and it is refreshing to see someone that really understands what he is doing but WHY he needs to do it. Especially your recommendation on consulting the valve manufacturer for soldering recommendations, as each could be different. Also nice to see someone that takes the time to do the little things, like removing the valve handle so that it is not burnt and tightening the packing nut after soldering. Only thing I do that is not covered here is I wrap a wet rag around the body of the valve. Apollo recommends that for their LF valves (which from what I have the closest soldering experience to leaded valves) and I just continue doing it as extra insurance against overheating the valve body for any ball valve in general. Great job, wish you had more videos on how to properly solder, I find it to be a dying art in the plumbing industry.
With small pipes, I don't run around the pipe with my flame like that.. I just heat one side with some movement and put in the solder on the other side. This way, I know it is heated up enough everywhere and the capillary effect combined with the flux takes care of the rest. Besides, I normally don't have room to move around the pipe this much..
Thanks for the vid. You might have mentioned that the valve should not be turned until completely cooled, as this can deform the seals and seats. Also, when ever possible, I like to solder my valves horizontally to make sure no flux or solder finds it's way into the valve body.
Yes never want to deform or rip. If you control the amount of solder, it shouldn't get into the body. I have seen regular solder fitting almost closed with solder. Whoever did those solder joints must have been having a hard time.
Apollo says their EZ-Solder bronze ball valves don't require low heat solder but they say 410 degree solder helps. Especially that I need to wet wrap an elbow only 3/4" from the valve I'm looking to replace. I looked at the prices of Sterling low heat solder.. expensive! I only need to solder 2 of these heavy duty 70LF20401 apollo valves. Thanks.
One suggestion I would give as a plumber & HVAC tech is to open the valve 1/2 way, if you accidentally heat it up a tad too hot you can warp the ball and that will cause a leak.
I never tried partial opening. I always installed open unless holding water back on other side. I figured open the gasket wasn’t against hot metal. Never had problems. Yet could be a reason I run into many failed valves on steam boilers
I would suggest instead going with the manufacturer's recommendation. For example, Apollo recommends open while Nibco recommends closed. Some manufacturers recommend the valve be disassembled. Best source of information would be the company that designed and manufacturers the valve. If it is not possible to contact the manufacturer, I default to fully open. If the ball is full open, 100% of the nylon ring is in contact with the ball's OD. This acts as a heat sink and protects the nylon from being melted - or distorted. Leaving the ball partly open exposes the nylon ring/seal to the air and surrounding brass body temps - with less heat sink than any other position possible in that phase of the ball that is now inside the ball cavity. Therefore, part of the nylon ring is fully exposed without the ball's heat sink aid - while the part that IS in contact will be unevenly heated and induce warping, distortion or a melting condition. Leaving the ball fully closed allows the bore of the ball to trap air inside the valve body chamber and although the nylon seal is in full contact of the balls heat sink (protecting it in the process as before), it subjects the packing box and ball bore to 300°F+ air expansion dynamics - which likely exceed the WOG rating of at least 125# or perhaps 300# and will compromise the packing, the seal or if a drop or two of moisture is present, or even blow out the seal.
I default to fully open for 2 readons: 1. If closed as the air inside the pipe heats, I've seen ball valves move during soldering due to heat induced pressure on one side. 2. The ball will help to retain the shape of the nylon seals during the heating process. It's very easy to cook a ball valve.
Might be best to use safety glasses. Also why not wrap the valve center with a damp rag held on by a vise grip ,to protect the ball valve seat and packing from excessive heat.
This didn't work for me... The wet rag cooled the solder point way too much to solder normally. Just don't heat the ball, but just the tip of the valve.
Hello , lead free fitting dont conduct heat as leaded fitting do . Require tinning flux and as you said a lower temp solder . Info from manufacturer. Hope it helps 👍all the best
Also new I’ve worried about that as well but the solder should harden fast 30-40 seconds full cure maybe faster for sterling solder but I wait 40-50 seconds then slowly work my way to they joint with my rag to siphon of the heat but maybe thats neurotic.
Thanks for this vid. Three questions: 1) What brand of low temp solder do you use? The sterling brand on Amazon costs $47 for a role! This is steep for a one-valve DIY home job. It also appears to be unavailable in retail stores (Home Depot and Ace). 2) One video recommend using "tinning" solder when soldering brass fixtures. Do you use this? (It, too, appears to be a rare in-stock item.) 3) Is a reasonable workaround for the above concerns to use a THREADED brass valve and attach it to copper pipes (on which one first installs male thread copper terminals)? This has the added advantage of keeping the heat away from the ball. Many thanks!
Sterling is available at Lowes. The tinning flux is available at both Home Depot and Lowes. I used both these products recently to sweat valves and it worked great.
@@steveloux4709 Wow. Look at the price. Expensive for doing just a couple of valves. The cheapest sterling at Lowes comes in a kit with regular flux (which I don't need) for $26. It would be awesome if it came with tinning flux. Oh well.
I have vertical 1" ball valve in sprinkler line which is leaking and caused the outer pipe to burst even system was winterized. Biggest problem is that this line is filled with water close to water meter. I have small valve on tee above the leaky valve which I can remove and suck the water below the 1" valve, replace it and than reinstall smaller valve above. I can either separate 1" line on the 45 deg elbow under the celling or 90 deg elbow closer to the floor to separate the cooper pipe at the valve and than reinstall it. If I use the same pipe which connections were solder already does it easy the process of soldering new valve back? I can use the leaded brass valve if I can get it because this is sprinkler system line. Thanks for posting
Only downfall to using previously soldered connections is getting pipes together. You either need to remove the excess solder or heat the fitting to slide together. Always add flux
thanks for the quick video. a couple of quick questions. Did you deliberately not apply a thin layer of flux to the inside of the valve, just on the pipe? Is the TuboTorch an acetylene swirl vs propane version? Is that ideal for 3/4" to 1" copper pipe and valves? Is it variable flow/heat? is three or five the better size for 1"? Is acetylene cheaper, easier and hotter than propane? I think I want to go the TurboTOrch route vs Bernzomatic TS8000. do you think that is a good choice for low temperature soldering copper?
I don't apply solder into the fittings to prevent flux from being pushed into piping. Applying to pipe puts flux into the fitting. Too much flux makes solder run, it also spits and splatters. Not fun doing a lot of over head soldering, getting splashed by hot flux. Turbo torch is an air/ acetylene torch. The heat output is adjustable by the regulator, and the valve handle. I use 3 to 5 often. An 11 tip heats quick and good as long as you control the heat. 3/4 pipe i would stay with a 3-7 tip. I do all my low temp soldering with the air acetylene. Propane works and the tanks are lighter. Yet i might have to do low temp soldering, or brazing a refrigerant fitting.
Technically it is not reaming, it is burnishing. Removing all containment's or oxygenation on the metal to achieve uniform solder flow. Reaming is more about de-burring.
I’m not a plumber, yet deal with water lines for heating systems. I do not like shark bite fittings. I don’t trust them, seen and replaced to many leaking fittings. Propress fitting I do trust
@@howtohvac3234 Do you think compression valves are more trustworthy than sharkbite? Or the same? What about compression valve a main shutoff. I'm just worried when the water co turns my water off at the street so I can replace my house main shutoff, the water will be trickling too fast to solder. Thanks
You need to get the fitting hot. The lead free ball valves need to be soldered in with low heat, or the seal will melt. The heat pulls the solder into and around the fitting. You can burn the seal easy if applying to much heat. The way I did it helps heat the pipe and fitting, without ruining the seal.
Get over it. Any trade that involves an open flame and a tank of acetylene gas can be chaotic. Life is chaotic and people make mistakes, it's how they react and correct them that counts. And he did great. I commend him for catching his mistake and explaining that he missed a critical step and why it is critical.
Correct Jim Safety First in all cases .. ... otherwise you are Not a professional.. Safety Goggles are Cheap,, Lost Eyes are Not.. Also He did not Seat the Bottom PIPE Tight
Sorry but that is horrible solder job..back in the day we soldered hundreds of brass valves. You only need to heat up the brass side in one continuous dime size motion in one spot...copper and brass heat conducts..once the flux starts to smoke you the tap the solder onto the brass to see if it melts. If not wait 10 more seconds..retry..then when it melts take the solder around the entire pipe never lifting the solder off it....then remove the heat..wait 15 seconds and wipe with cloth to clean any residues.
The newer valves are sometimes a bitch. I learned on the up to 5% lead valves. Big difference. Any valve on potable water after 2014 can have at max 0.25% lead.
@@BB-nn9en ha your right the new lead free valves are different. I just sweated one yesterday. Old head plumber at Lowes told me now you have to heat the pipe 20 seconds first to let it expand..then the brass......so I tried it on a 30 buck valve and it worked like a charm......
@@cooldude2245 There is a great video by got2learn on how to solder lead free valves showing why you heat the pipe first, valve after, directing flame away from valve body.
Back in the day they said smoking was good for you Back in the day they didn't install seatbelts. Back in the day they used leaded paint Back in the day...... 😂
Go back and watch at 4:40. The pipe instantaneously jumps back into place and becomes rigid. At that point he did stick something underneath the pipe but we didn't see that and he didn't say anything about it.
His work looks great, have you even soldered before? You can tell he's done a lot with how he handles himself. Have you ever done a video before? It's harder to remember things when your focused on a good presentation sometimes, something like he did does not mean he isnt a pro at all.
@@seane6616 Wrong with me? The wrong is not with me. The fact is a simple one. No one likes what I have pointed out in this instance. TH-cam is an outlet for hacks of every (how-to) stripe who attempt to assert themselves and thus deceive and confound other gullible watchers. If a master plumber watched every plumbing video posted - I guarantee you that greater than 90 percent of the thousands of plumbing videos would be deleted.
@@kathyern861 TH-cam deleted your comment, but I can still see it only as a notification. His joints will hold up, he does a good job, and he clearly knows what he is doing. You're being nothing short of absurd, has your NPD been diagnosed yet?
I thought the same until I rewatched the video closely, and it showed the pipe was re inserted fully and supported. That part was not included in the video.
Excellent video. Your soldering technique is solid. Those LF ball valves can be a trick if not done properly. You covered the biggest mistake most people make and that's slathering on too much flux and then the solder runs down the pipe to chase the flux. Usually if I'm doing in inverted solder joint (the bottom of the valve where the lower pipe meets the valve) I'll heat up the pipe, then use a rag to wipe off any excess flux which sweats down before I apply the weld, that way I don't get the candlestick effect. But you clearly used the right amount of flux so it didn't go sliming up the pipe. Thank you for the time and effort you put into making this video to show folks how to do it the right way.
Yeah, he's good!
Definitely one of the best videos on how to solder LF ball valves out there. You hit all the important points and it is refreshing to see someone that really understands what he is doing but WHY he needs to do it. Especially your recommendation on consulting the valve manufacturer for soldering recommendations, as each could be different. Also nice to see someone that takes the time to do the little things, like removing the valve handle so that it is not burnt and tightening the packing nut after soldering.
Only thing I do that is not covered here is I wrap a wet rag around the body of the valve. Apollo recommends that for their LF valves (which from what I have the closest soldering experience to leaded valves) and I just continue doing it as extra insurance against overheating the valve body for any ball valve in general.
Great job, wish you had more videos on how to properly solder, I find it to be a dying art in the plumbing industry.
I'm sitting here thinking this guy is a rookie and he's not gonna de-bur the pipe then...BAM. Great video
Nice job on that valve. (Very tricky to get these right w/o damaging the seat seals). Thank you for making & posting this video.
With small pipes, I don't run around the pipe with my flame like that.. I just heat one side with some movement and put in the solder on the other side. This way, I know it is heated up enough everywhere and the capillary effect combined with the flux takes care of the rest. Besides, I normally don't have room to move around the pipe this much..
Thanks, your video helped a bunch and prevented me from screwing up the valve!
I called Watts, and they recommend soldering their valves with it in the half open position, and only close it after the valve has cooled.
I roasted my valve the first time, I didn't know this lesson.
Any opinion on wrapping the ball valve with a wet rag before soldering to reduce heat load into the internal seal?
Thanks for the vid. You might have mentioned that the valve should not be turned until
completely cooled, as this can deform the seals and seats. Also, when ever possible, I like to solder my valves horizontally to make sure no flux or solder finds it's way into the valve
body.
Yes never want to deform or rip. If you control the amount of solder, it shouldn't get into the body. I have seen regular solder fitting almost closed with solder. Whoever did those solder joints must have been having a hard time.
Apollo says their EZ-Solder bronze ball valves don't require low heat solder but they say 410 degree solder helps. Especially that I need to wet wrap an elbow only 3/4" from the valve I'm looking to replace. I looked at the prices of Sterling low heat solder.. expensive! I only need to solder 2 of these heavy duty 70LF20401 apollo valves. Thanks.
One suggestion I would give as a plumber & HVAC tech is to open the valve 1/2 way, if you accidentally heat it up a tad too hot you can warp the ball and that will cause a leak.
I never tried partial opening. I always installed open unless holding water back on other side. I figured open the gasket wasn’t against hot metal. Never had problems. Yet could be a reason I run into many failed valves on steam boilers
I would suggest instead going with the manufacturer's recommendation. For example, Apollo recommends open while Nibco recommends closed. Some manufacturers recommend the valve be disassembled. Best source of information would be the company that designed and manufacturers the valve.
If it is not possible to contact the manufacturer, I default to fully open. If the ball is full open, 100% of the nylon ring is in contact with the ball's OD. This acts as a heat sink and protects the nylon from being melted - or distorted.
Leaving the ball partly open exposes the nylon ring/seal to the air and surrounding brass body temps - with less heat sink than any other position possible in that phase of the ball that is now inside the ball cavity. Therefore, part of the nylon ring is fully exposed without the ball's heat sink aid - while the part that IS in contact will be unevenly heated and induce warping, distortion or a melting condition.
Leaving the ball fully closed allows the bore of the ball to trap air inside the valve body chamber and although the nylon seal is in full contact of the balls heat sink (protecting it in the process as before), it subjects the packing box and ball bore to 300°F+ air expansion dynamics - which likely exceed the WOG rating of at least 125# or perhaps 300# and will compromise the packing, the seal or if a drop or two of moisture is present, or even blow out the seal.
I default to fully open for 2 readons:
1. If closed as the air inside the pipe heats, I've seen ball valves move during soldering due to heat induced pressure on one side.
2. The ball will help to retain the shape of the nylon seals during the heating process. It's very easy to cook a ball valve.
Might be best to use safety glasses. Also why not wrap the valve center with a damp rag held on by a vise grip ,to protect the ball valve seat and packing from excessive heat.
This didn't work for me... The wet rag cooled the solder point way too much to solder normally. Just don't heat the ball, but just the tip of the valve.
Hello , lead free fitting dont conduct heat as leaded fitting do . Require tinning flux and as you said a lower temp solder . Info from manufacturer. Hope it helps 👍all the best
Damp rag on joint? Doesn't it increase chance of micro cracks? Just a newbie here trying to learn.
Never had any problems since solder hardens quicken. Been doing it for over 20 years without leaks
Also new I’ve worried about that as well but the solder should harden fast 30-40 seconds full cure maybe faster for sterling solder but I wait 40-50 seconds then slowly work my way to they joint with my rag to siphon of the heat but maybe thats neurotic.
You do nice work, ty for this!
Thanks for this vid. Three questions:
1) What brand of low temp solder do you use? The sterling brand on Amazon costs $47 for a role! This is steep for a one-valve DIY home job. It also appears to be unavailable in retail stores (Home Depot and Ace).
2) One video recommend using "tinning" solder when soldering brass fixtures. Do you use this? (It, too, appears to be a rare in-stock item.)
3) Is a reasonable workaround for the above concerns to use a THREADED brass valve and attach it to copper pipes (on which one first installs male thread copper terminals)? This has the added advantage of keeping the heat away from the ball.
Many thanks!
Sterling is available at Lowes. The tinning flux is available at both Home Depot and Lowes. I used both these products recently to sweat valves and it worked great.
@@steveloux4709 Wow. Look at the price. Expensive for doing just a couple of valves. The cheapest sterling at Lowes comes in a kit with regular flux (which I don't need) for $26. It would be awesome if it came with tinning flux. Oh well.
@@rgraz4929 it is expensive! I think the last roll I purchased thru eBay.
Nice job. What type of gas are you using?
I have vertical 1" ball valve in sprinkler line which is leaking and caused the outer pipe to burst even system was winterized. Biggest problem is that this line is filled with water close to water meter. I have small valve on tee above the leaky valve which I can remove and suck the water below the 1" valve, replace it and than reinstall smaller valve above. I can either separate 1" line on the 45 deg elbow under the celling or 90 deg elbow closer to the floor to separate the cooper pipe at the valve and than reinstall it. If I use the same pipe which connections were solder already does it easy the process of soldering new valve back? I can use the leaded brass valve if I can get it because this is sprinkler system line. Thanks for posting
Only downfall to using previously soldered connections is getting pipes together. You either need to remove the excess solder or heat the fitting to slide together. Always add flux
I think it's fair to say that ALL valves sold today are either lead free or not lead free. LOL j/k
I dont think I have ever seen someone touch a hot joint with solder that many times.
Did it come out sloppy and runny? Or neat and sealed?
@@howtohvac3234 it looked ok
thanks for the quick video. a couple of quick questions. Did you deliberately not apply a thin layer of flux to the inside of the valve, just on the pipe? Is the TuboTorch an acetylene swirl vs propane version? Is that ideal for 3/4" to 1" copper pipe and valves? Is it variable flow/heat? is three or five the better size for 1"? Is acetylene cheaper, easier and hotter than propane? I think I want to go the TurboTOrch route vs Bernzomatic TS8000. do you think that is a good choice for low temperature soldering copper?
I don't apply solder into the fittings to prevent flux from being pushed into piping. Applying to pipe puts flux into the fitting. Too much flux makes solder run, it also spits and splatters. Not fun doing a lot of over head soldering, getting splashed by hot flux. Turbo torch is an air/ acetylene torch. The heat output is adjustable by the regulator, and the valve handle. I use 3 to 5 often. An 11 tip heats quick and good as long as you control the heat. 3/4 pipe i would stay with a 3-7 tip. I do all my low temp soldering with the air acetylene. Propane works and the tanks are lighter. Yet i might have to do low temp soldering, or brazing a refrigerant fitting.
What tool did you use to “ Rheme” the valve, and what is Rheeming?
look up pencil rhemer
@@ShrimpCracka will do. Thanks.
Technically it is not reaming, it is burnishing. Removing all containment's or oxygenation on the metal to achieve uniform solder flow. Reaming is more about de-burring.
Thank you.
From Denver, Colorado
Hvac
Thank you
Thanks for the knowledge sir.
which ball valve are you using for this?
Are heat guns any good 4 loosing up corrugated flex connector solder tight ends? And what to do?
so great men
Would a plumber be OK with a sharkbite( half way in wall) for a main shutoff valve ?
I’m not a plumber, yet deal with water lines for heating systems. I do not like shark bite fittings. I don’t trust them, seen and replaced to many leaking fittings. Propress fitting I do trust
@@howtohvac3234 Do you think compression valves are more trustworthy than sharkbite? Or the same? What about compression valve a main shutoff. I'm just worried when the water co turns my water off at the street so I can replace my house main shutoff, the water will be trickling too fast to solder. Thanks
Awesome :)
Being open and very accessible I would do sharkbite...but what do I know
did he just said my ball valve?
Fancy pipe cutter
Hmmm, aren't you supposed to not torch the joint directly? not sure if this is video I would wanna follow!
You need to get the fitting hot. The lead free ball valves need to be soldered in with low heat, or the seal will melt. The heat pulls the solder into and around the fitting. You can burn the seal easy if applying to much heat. The way I did it helps heat the pipe and fitting, without ruining the seal.
No offence but that all seemed a little chaotic with the flux and forgetting to debur and what not.
Get over it. Any trade that involves an open flame and a tank of acetylene gas can be chaotic. Life is chaotic and people make mistakes, it's how they react and correct them that counts. And he did great. I commend him for catching his mistake and explaining that he missed a critical step and why it is critical.
Etwas Planlos der gute Man 😂Paste rauf ,Paste runter dann entgraten 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤦♂️
I don't agree .u hit only one time one side simple .....
I’d feel more comfortable if you were wearing safety glasses.
don't get you panties twisted, he is a professional second the risk of splatter is only if you overheat it and overload it with flux
Safety goggles...... why not welders gloves, face shield, judo gi , and ear plugs...
Correct Jim Safety First in all cases .. ... otherwise you are Not a professional.. Safety Goggles are Cheap,, Lost Eyes are Not.. Also He did not Seat the Bottom PIPE Tight
And don't forget the N95 mask too, even if the plumber has been vaccinated! :-)
Dont forget your tampon.
Sorry but that is horrible solder job..back in the day we soldered hundreds of brass valves. You only need to heat up the brass side in one continuous dime size motion in one spot...copper and brass heat conducts..once the flux starts to smoke you the tap the solder onto the brass to see if it melts. If not wait 10 more seconds..retry..then when it melts take the solder around the entire pipe never lifting the solder off it....then remove the heat..wait 15 seconds and wipe with cloth to clean any residues.
The newer valves are sometimes a bitch. I learned on the up to 5% lead valves. Big difference. Any valve on potable water after 2014 can have at max 0.25% lead.
@@BB-nn9en ha your right the new lead free valves are different. I just sweated one yesterday. Old head plumber at Lowes told me now you have to heat the pipe 20 seconds first to let it expand..then the brass......so I tried it on a 30 buck valve and it worked like a charm......
Maybe you can make a video on how you did it
@@cooldude2245 There is a great video by got2learn on how to solder lead free valves showing why you heat the pipe first, valve after, directing flame away from valve body.
Back in the day they said smoking was good for you
Back in the day they didn't install seatbelts.
Back in the day they used leaded paint
Back in the day...... 😂
No safety glasses. If flux or solder splatters into your eye, you've lost an eye.
Using a wet rag is not a a good idea.
What problem(s) arise from using a wet rag?
@@JonathanScheelei believe it rushes the curing process and can cause cracks in solder
Set up before you wet up
YOU MUST to learn how to solder ....!!!!!
he is to dumb for that :D
This guy dont know shit😂 leaks
The pipe on the bottom drops. He didn't lift it up and solders it. I will be get fired by my boss if i do that. I don't this is a good video.
Go back and watch at 4:40.
The pipe instantaneously jumps back into place and becomes rigid. At that point he did stick something underneath the pipe but we didn't see that and he didn't say anything about it.
Oops, I forgot one of the basics of copper plumbing, remove burrs. But, I'm making this video and convincing you that I am a professional...
His work looks great, have you even soldered before? You can tell he's done a lot with how he handles himself. Have you ever done a video before? It's harder to remember things when your focused on a good presentation sometimes, something like he did does not mean he isnt a pro at all.
@@seane6616 Yes and yes. Boo, hoo hoo
@@kathyern861 wtf is wrong with you g.g
@@seane6616 Wrong with me? The wrong is not with me. The fact is a simple one. No one likes what I have pointed out in this instance. TH-cam is an outlet for hacks of every (how-to) stripe who attempt to assert themselves and thus deceive and confound other gullible watchers. If a master plumber watched every plumbing video posted - I guarantee you that greater than 90 percent of the thousands of plumbing videos would be deleted.
@@kathyern861 TH-cam deleted your comment, but I can still see it only as a notification. His joints will hold up, he does a good job, and he clearly knows what he is doing. You're being nothing short of absurd, has your NPD been diagnosed yet?
No eye protection, heating the copper pipe with a direct flame as opposed to heating the body of the valve. C- at best.
I thought you are not suppose to heat the body of valve since it could burn the rubber ring inside?
youe welding skill is poor, the pipe not even in the proper position, pipe was drop
I thought the same until I rewatched the video closely, and it showed the pipe was re inserted fully and supported. That part was not included in the video.
In a perfect world you could play tetherball with all the room around the pipe. 🤾🏼♂️
But thank for the tutorial anyways 🙏🏽
Nice job. What type of gas are you using?
Etwas Planlos der gute Man 😂Paste rauf ,Paste runter dann entgraten 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤦♂️