Analysis of a Broadsword and Sabre Fight
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2016
- Want to know more about what goes on in a fight? This is it. It is long, but for those that want to learn and study British military swordsmanship, this has a tonne of information and analysis. In this video I can explain a lot of what goes on in a fight which is not possible in most other videos.
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Yes yes yes this is what TH-cam HEMA needs!!!!!!!!!
"2 and a half inches really makes a difference"
Giggidy 📏
probably in more ways than one.........honestly, that one was good
This is exactly what the channel needs so new-comers can understand what's going on. However, please, you need to mute the footage because it is often louder than the commentary.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this, it's immensely helpful!
seconded
Oh yes!
These blow by blow videos are incredible! As someone just starting my British sabre journey, this is a massive help. Cheers!
This was one of your best videos so far I think, I'm learning a lot from it, even in the first 5 mins.
Very interesting. Considering the Highland broadsword had such a strong basket guard, combined with a targe shield it seems like a very aggressive fighting style. Commenting as a historical enthusiast with a rudimentary knowledge of sword fighting.
Help, I've been sucked into these videos and can't escape!
There is a measureable scale of numbers of swords owned/frequency to use them and personal happiness :)
This is an excellent video. The commentary adds so much to it.
Interestingly, Russian sources on use of the sabre from the 1800s also describe a heavily back-weighted stance (so much so that the fencer should be able to lift up his front foot and freely tap it on the ground without shifting other parts of the body). Guards are similar as well, but no numbering system for cuts as far as I can tell.
Wow. Between your first videos and this one I just got my first understanding of this chaos and just how calculated everything is.
Thanks to both fencers, that was excellent - very enjoyable to watch and listen to the commentary.
This was great to watch. Analysing the fight and citing the sources/ techniques is really useful so thanks!
Excellent video. Have been studying Rowarth for about a year and found this very helpful. Had previously only considered the slip when specifically defending the leg but this shows how a good slip changes the point of percussion of a cut and aids the parry. Definitely food for thought.
As a newbie to hema this analysis was immensely enjoyable and helpful. Thank you so much for doing it. I just downloaded the manual with Taylor's 10 steps and will check out your club resources page. Please do more of these fight analysis videos!
Great breakdown of the spar! Great info.
Thanks for these explanations! Great learning material!
Very informative! Thanks for posting this.
Very educational. Thanks for that.
Really solid work, thanks!
OMG, popcorn time!
She's goooood!
This is sooo fascinating!!!
I know this is quite old video by now, but thank you for this! :) Very informative. :) However I have to admit, that I was cheering her, since I'm mostly interested in backsword, and not as much in military saber. ;)
Sorry I really see an arresto at any parrie XD
Now seriously, amazing work, Nick!
Very nice analysis :)
Are the cutting mechanics different between the sabre and broadsword? It seems like the curved VS straight blade shape would make a difference.
Really useful, would love to see more videos like this one
Thanks. Unfortunately it takes many hours to make these sorts of videos and so we can't fit it in too often. I have been meaning to do some more though, hopefully over the next few weeks.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing thank you very much, i've been watching your videos for a while now since i'm planning to start my own HEMA club (there are none where i live) and It has been incredibly helpful
awesome video :)
I don't know squat about any of this but I quite enjoyed it.
Excellent analysis, it's particularly fortuitous for me as I have spent the last year or so studying the Taylor version, hopefully this will also get some more attention for what I think is a really great, easy to study and martially sound system. It's also quintessentially British, so a video like this that slows down the actions and explains why things are happening is great for demonstrating what makes British systems distinct from other contemporary systems of swordsmanship. Thank you.
You seemed to be quite chuffed with the slips, are you now sold on the double defence offered by slipping on every parry, or do you think you'll go back to slipping only in response to a threat to the leg? Also, I don't have an 1803 flank officers sabre, but I do have a pre-regulation one. The ones you showed seem to have somewhat longer blades, is this a feature of the regulation sabres compared to the earlier non-standardised ones? For comparison, the example I own has a blade of 27 1/2 inches and is extremely light even though it is unfullered at just 650g. It's fast, but I think it would have trouble parrying a strong broadsword or cavalry sabre blow. Are the later ones more substantial?
No problem. You might want to check out our new club resources page that has the Angelo posters, as well as our new work book that is intended as a guide to those working with the Taylor ten lessons in Roworth.
As for the slip, yes I think it is incredibly effective as far as defence goes, and I think I will continue to use it frequently. As for it being on every parry, well I think the likelihood is in actual fights that not every parry would be made with a slip, but many would. I think the use of it in the drills is important for it to become instinctive, rather that absolute necessity at every parry. But I will continue to use it a lot, and not just against leg attacks.
The 1803 pattern swords I showed in the video are in fact completely different in size. The half lions head one I have shown so many times before has a 81cm blade, only a whisker shorter than a 1796 LC that it was based on, however the full lions head pommel version that is my new one, that is only 76cm in blade length. I have logged a lot of data on 1803 pattern swords and they are fascinating. They vary in size, weight, fullering, curvature and blade profile more than any other pattern sword I have ever known. I will be making a video all about them soon, and talking a lot about the pre and non pattern stuff as well.
As for were the pre and non regulation pattern blades shorter than the 1803? Well it can be very hard to say, as they certainly both varied a lot, but at the longer end of the non/pre pattern models it can be hard to distinguish what is an infantry officers sword and what is a cavalry officers sword. I think the reality is that a great variety of length blades were used by infantry officers, whether pattern or not, some as low as 73cm in the blade, and some as long as 83cm.
I have been collecting a lot of data for this, and I have just bought a pre or non pattern unfullered infantry officers sword that sounds very similar to yours. Would you mind providing photos and data for it? Both for my records and potentially to be shown in the video. Data is pretty scarce on British infantry swords until the gothic hilts, so it would be really appreciated.
Lastly about weight, I have found the 1803 swords are on average a little more robust that pre/non pattern infantry swords yes. They are on average about 100 grams heavier.
Yes I can absolutely do that. What is the best place to contact you?
Great thanks. an email to info at historicalfencing.co.uk would be great.
Good job, Enjoyed that video quite a lot.
I have a question/concern. How does doing the all mighty slip at every parry turn out on a slippery surface ? Let's say wet grass.
No problem at all, as the lunge is not excessive, and providing the knee goes forward on the heel when lunging. We did a load of sparring on wet grass just before the dark nights drew in, and its no problem at all. Wet grass only causes on issue if you try and bounce around too much, or over extend in your lunges, as the knee lands behind the foot and causes it to push the foot forward.
looking forward to the next lessons and poster illustrations
I'll make a video about the Angelo posters soon, but here is the link to the restored originals on our website, as well as our club workbook to help those training in the ten lessons of Taylor.
swordfight.uk/resources/
Thanks that's great. I've been hoping to join your club sometime as i'm only in Severn Beach. Just had non serious but constantly irritating health issues for a few years putting me off certain exercise. Sometime though
Question - @32:18 - In the fighting we do, a common move is basically from ester's position and slipping, I would also be doing a cut to the arm, keeping my arm high, blade sweeping from left across, ending in a position close to hanging guard, or if you were close enough, Cut 1 to head. But the arm strike is more defensive. I haven't seen you guys make that strike - is there some large vulnerability or risk I have missed with it? Same with @39:44 for you. Slipped the leg but didn't counter.
Excellent video! Thank you for the in depth explanations. As someone trained in use of force, but not HEMA, I'm curious as to the lack of sidestepping or stepping off line in this fight. What is the reason behind this?
It depends on which style and chill you go to, my HEMA club teaches heavy use of going off line and sidestepping. This is a more traditional style based heavily on manuals, which were used to teach soldiers. On a battlefield, you might be able to go forward and back, but side to side might make you clash into your own troops or move into range of another opponent. Lateral movement is great for duels, not so hot on the battlefield!
I have some questions about the footwork. Esther always takes a big back step with the front foot all the way past the back foot landing in what looks like an uncomfortable/dangerous position for the knee of the now-forwards leg because it's pointing outwards (she adjusts from a 90º to a 45º angle forwards and out, though at 12:38 she doesn't and keeps the knee and a 90º angle that hurts me by looking at it), and also increasing the time needed to counter. You also do this but more rarely. Most of the time you just bring your front foot inline with your back foot instead, while leaning forward, which allows for a faster counter and doesn't seem uncomfortable to the knee.
So first: is that not as uncomfortable/dangerous for the knee as it looks? And second: are both options considered correct?
As an example, the full sequence that starts at 7:55 shows Esther moving the foot all the way back on every parry while you're just moving it in line with your back foot keeping that forward lean, which also seems to bring you ahead in time on each successive move allowing you to eventually catch her before she can initiate another back step.
would you say that (scottish) broadsword is closer to Italian sidesword than rapier? I'm trying to find a good basic framework for a cut-and-thrust blade like dall'Agocchie
Well the late 18th century stuff like we use has Scots broadsword and sabre taught and used the same, which is largely the same as rapier from say Capo Ferro. Some earlier basket hilt sources appear to be closer to sidesword yes, but they are often very vague on footwork and so hard to tell.
very useful and interesting
Where did you buy the broadsword?
Darkwood Armoury.
Very insightful than you!
Can You recommend a good vendor for Saber, Cutlass and Small sword, please.
Recently we have been in between suppliers as some that we used to use have been dropped. I have been testing some new ones and my current favourite for Sabre is Swordsmithy (CZ), you can find his page on Facebook. He will make you a cutlass no problem as well. I am not sure on the best option for smallsword at present.
Academy of Historical Fencing
Dynamic., Thank You
And thank you for the quick response.
I will engage their products.
Will you make a video of tactical skirmish & rank techniques instead of only dueling?
As instruction and breakdown, probably not. The video here isn't a duel scenario, but military sabre. It could of course be a duel, but it's a system for battlefield combat. There is very little written on melee and skirmish tactics, and is a little beyond the scope of what we usually work. We do melee for fun at events, but it's not something we do serious study of, nor is well written about.
#footwork
@03:22 who is that maker? Sword Smithy?
Do you feel like being that defensive maybe makes your attacks slower, since you have to make a much longer step to riposte? It seems like both of you managed to land very few solid blows. Have you tried sparring against someone using older Roworth's "no slip" method and found this one superior?
Some responses can be slower, but it has been our experience that without those slips in many actions you take hits or doubles. Of course if you stay fixed footing when you parry you will be that little bit closer, but you have to know for certain that you have judged your opponents attack correctly, as there is then little margin for error.
I'd say there were less blows landed in this fight simply because of the strong defence, as opposed to slow ripostes.
We also still don't know whether Roworth intended slipping on parries or not in his first edition, it is vague. But seeing as he taught from the same source as Angelo, it is likely that he did.
Sorry what's the name of the historical sources you used to teach sabre? I couldn't quite catch it...
'The Art of Defence on foot with Broadsword and Sabre' by C. Roworth. First published in 1798. The artwork shown are from Henry Angelo, 1799. See our club resources page for more about this, including our club work book that will explain it further -
swordfight.uk/resources/
Academy of Historical Fencing Thank you kindly!
Sir,
What is the weight of the 1803 and what is the PoB? Thanks
They vary quite a lot as it is a very loose pattern, but typical ranges are 700-820grams, 12-15"cm Pob, and blade lengths 75-81cm.
Thanks very much for the info.
Anyone got a link for the broadsword she's using?
Here, baskethilt III with 34" backsword blade. A reasonable option if you live in the US.
rapiers.darkwoodarmory.com/product/baskethilted-swords/
Any chance of a similar video for rapier?
This one was great btw, I'm just more interested in rapier :-)
Yeh, but likely sometime in the new year. We tend to do about 12 week blocks on a weapon, sabre will end at the end of the year with rapier kicking off again when we come back in the new year.
why is the footwork so linear?
It is efficient. It allows fast attack and the sword can cover really effectively. In fact most European sword styles moved to a linear footwork approach from the late 16th century onwards, as the lunge became the predominant attacking step.
Jay Jinn if you know so much why are you here?
will you do spanish rapier fencing ??
No. We teach Italian rapier. We do not do anything Spanish. I am not a fan of the Spanish rapier style at all.
Academy of Historical Fencing thank you for your response
Academy of Historical Fencing Why don't you like the Spanish rapier system?
Simon Dean
If I am correct, they don’t like the usage of lateral and circular footwork.
How do you determine when a bout is over and who won?
If it is not obvious in a video such as this, most likely nobody knows or cares. When I fence at my school, nobody tracks the score for the most part. Everyone fences touch by touch, except for infrequent occasions.
There is not a declared winner for most sparring bouts. Most sparring is done for the purpose of practice, to develop new techniques and experiment, to build conditioning and strength and the pressure test people. That said, it is pretty obvious who wins most bouts, unless the fighters are quite closely matched.
What is winning though? With swords like this the fight would almost always be over within 1-3 strikes being landed. So what you are seeing here is not one fight, but multiple encounters, one after the other.
Sparring ends when one or both want it to. Usually that means 5-8 minutes of fighting.
Thanks for the answer!
Is it ever advisable to try and cut off an opponent's head in mid-fight, or ever doable as a counter stroke on a perfectly healthy person with full command of their weapon as opposed to a coup de grace on a mortally-wounded opponent?
To decapitate someone is very difficult, in terms of getting the right setup for it. The fact that it will typically require a horizontal strike above the shoulder is a problem because they are typically the easiest to parry, and you'll need to develop a lot of power to do it as well. There are some accounts of it happening in cavalry combat, but typically that is one rider falls forward a little or is unbalanced in some way. The reality is that it would be very difficult and very unusual.