We Dyno Tested Three Different Brand Fuels. What Was The Difference In Horsepower? 91 vs 95 Octane
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2022
- Does the brand of fuel (of the same octane) make a difference in horsepower? How much power does 95 octane fuel make compared to 91 octane pump gas? In this video, "Dyno" Don MacAskill and Lake Speed Jr answer these questions.
After some recent questions regarding the consistency of today's pump gas, the team at Shaver Specialties Racing Engines set out to isolate and then eliminate any variables in the fuel used in our testing. That’s what prompted these test, and this video shows the results.
To learn more about the variables in Winter vs Summer blend gasoline, check out these videos:
Winter Blend vs Summer Blend - • Winter Blend vs Summer...
When Octane Doesn’t Matter - • When Octane Doesn't Ma...
To learn more about the testing done at Shaver Specialties Racing Engines, check out these videos:
Honing For Horsepower - • 3 Steps To More Horsep...
Dyno Testing Piston Rings - • Dyno Testing Piston Ri...
#RacingEngine #CylinderBore #CylinderHoning #PistonRings #Enginetechnology #horsepower #engine #gas #dyno - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Don McCaskill is a gem. Lots of humility and wisdom
Yes he is!
Fascinating insight. Great video guys.
Thanks!
Been running “boat” gas , some 93,some 90,some 87. I get two or more mpg in my 19 Fiesta 5 speed man. Best ever was 89 , running behind the UHaul With the girlfriend in the car, and I was in the truck with a car on dolly behind a 15’box truck and returned 49.2 mpg rarely exceeded 65-70 and light traffic late at night. I wonder if it increases timing with the extra octane? I also have had a mild lean hesitation on initial 200 yards if I don’t let it idle for 20 seconds , when I run ethanol fuel. With all the water here in Florida it should be illegal to sell ethanol in gasoline
The modern cars with knock sensors connected to the ECU will increase timing if the fuel will allow for it.
Pump gas varies in ethanol content from transport load to load. (Note when the E gets added 😳) My $15 test kit says it varies from 8 to 13% often. I've caught one tank at 17%, ran like crap.
In my hot rods I run 91-93 NON ethanol exclusively.
Obviously I'm not in CA. Thank God.👍👍🇺🇸
So true! The splash blending in the tanker is not very consistent, which showed up in our testing this year.
I have found the same. I have found a range of 3% to just over 20%. Awful.
Yep. Some folks don’t realize that some stations offering really cheap gas, has a higher ethanol content.
I drained some from a generator that came in the shop last week ,spilled some on the floor and I swore it was like avgas ot evaporated and barely left a stain.
At least I can go over west one county and get non ethanol super.
I had the great fortune to disassemble, inspect, reassemble, and test run a Waukesha variable compression engine used for determining Motor Octane numbers. I was working with a former Shell answer man who created the R+M/2 formula you see on the gas pumps. This reminded me of that experience where we were cranking up the compression to see (hear) what compression ratio we started pinging at.
I really like the VP fuels and generally run C12/blue. Coincidentally, we switched to summer fuel here and it's been cold. Neither of my fuel injected vehicles likes starting cold recently. We need some warm weather to make that Reed vapor pressure work.
Our dyno man for our snowmobiles is Jim at DynoTech Research in Batavia NY., He is constantly doing quality test on race fuels and ways to preserve the quality of the race fuel you use, nice guy to talk to ...just sayin. From reading testing results fuel is anything but consistent.
Thanks!
Very informative thanks
Thanks!
Glad that you have gotten consistent fuel. 👍
Thanks!
Most service stations in a given region will haul their fuel from the same distribution rack regardless of brand as it all comes out of the same pipelines. It can have different additives added by the station though but that is unlikely to make a lot of difference. Now it could be fuel a few towns over is better as it comes from a different pipeline but that is hard to know. Using a standard synthesized fuel makes it a lot easier.
Your car's STFT and LTFT can get used to gas from a certain station, for sure.
Yes, you are correct.
Yep around here that truck stops at Sunoco and fuels their tanks ,and then goes up the road to the shell and fills them up,and so on.
Something I have noticed is the fuel in south Carolina seems to be good. I drove from Ohio and filled up in sc and could immediately tell the difference.
Engine Masters had a great episode that shows minimal HP change from bottom octane up to 116 octane racing fuel. I was as surprised as they were.
I think it depends on the engine and how fast it adjusts timing to maximize power.
back the day hot full Sunoco 260 i put in my GTO 389 IS IT STELL OUT THER ?
In ⛽️ Australia 🇦🇺 we have 87 , 91 , 93 , 94/95 ethonal & 98 octane from the Pump .
I use 98 octane on both my 2010 Ford FG XR6 N/A UTE & 2016 Ford FG-X Turbo XR6 UTE . The Turbo ute must drink 98 octane.
The N/A Ute can run 91, 93 , 94/95 ethonal blend , however l prefer the 98 Octane 4 this as well .
Ford Australia 🇦🇺 said that the 98 would gain 18 kw over the 91 octane. And give u better mileage. I have proven both , especially with the use of the Brisk Evo N/A Spark Plugs . A Huge Difference. Instead of using 10.7 litres per l am using 7.7 litres per hundred ks . Obviously this is long distance country driving.
My best prior was only a whisker improvement 10.7 to 10.4 a Sneeze if u get my meaning.
Would ❤ 2 know how much more improvement with USA 91 octane making on a 565 cu inch Chevy with 5 inch Whipple Intercooler Cupronickel & 3.8 ltr Supercharger at 1400 hp @ 7600 & then using
USA 93 Octane on the same engine 2 see how much more u could squeeze out of that combination.
❤ ur work Lake Speed .
Robert 🇦🇺 Australia 🇦🇺 😅
Most stock cars will advance timing to take advantage of higher octane but only to a limited point. Toyota especially limits timing and it is part of why they last. So if you use high octane you may be throwing away money. Performance will always be at the cost of longevity.
Enjoy the talk thru of fuel and timing .
All that matters !
Thanks for the comment!
I had a dyno in the form of a car. It was a 2003 VVT 2.9L Volvo (premium only). I have a steep pass I would go over to and from work (sea level to ~1000ft). The car had a 5 speed auto and only two gasoline’s would hold 5th gear going over all year round. USA gas and 76 were the only ones, tried them all regularly as sometimes I’d buy the cheapest.
Thanks for sharing! That's a real world test!
Dear host : No more caffeine for you.
LOL
Haha this just popped up in my feed ,I didn't even think to see if you guys had a channel.
Love your product!
Close to 20yrs ago you guys modified a stock set of rings for top gapless on a 98 VW TDI engine for me.
Since those were "new" at the time, you guys requested a sample of the oem rings from me.
I sent em in and was told they're great quality so can I procure an oem set and send them in for modifying?
Yeah sure.
Then I went and looked, 125$ a hole for OEM!
Yikes!
More searching revealed they were actually made by Goetz for VW, and then I found those for 30$ a hole.
Whew, because that would have hurt from the dealer!
And I was so nervous about breaking one with all the time invested, because Murphy's law,I had you guys do a 5th one as a spare.
Anyways I put them in and used the dry lube.
I'll say that was the best setup I ever had, after 5k miles I did a leak down and you guys weren't kidding when you said you'll think your gauge is broken.
Needle barely moved ,might have been 1/2% leakage.
Same at 15k also.
Forget blowby, it was minimal and I could run an open breather and not die from fumes.
I put about 30k on that beastie and she was a runner.
Some car issues happened, so I tore into the whole engine again and went thru it.
Reused the rings ,they looked mint.
It's still sitting on the engine stand, I had some other things get in my way for the last few years but it'll live again someday.
I told myself that any engine I ever rebuild again is getting gapless rings from you guys even if it's a weedwacker.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Good stuff. You did it. ;-)
Thanks!
There are big differences from gas station to station I've felt it.. I always run 93 but i was going to the same gas station and then I switched over to a more busy one and felt a difference.. It was amazing actually.. I must have been getting fake 93 or Old 93...
I'm currently in the process of making a decision on adding a ethanol pump kit to my 09 g8 to run E85 or E88 vs 93 here in ohio, the engine is a blueprint ls3 with a zl1 lsa supercharger making 780hp @ 65° outside temp and 760hp @ 80°+
I'm trying to figure out if the 93 has cook off or pre vaporize at warmer temperatures causing hp losses.
the e85/e88 being a cooler burning fuel may solve it. I'm aiming for 825hp if possible or more at the wheel
The downside of pump E85 is the Ethanol content varies a lot (it could be as low as 60%).
I assume the compression ratio was around 9:1? A little more info on the engine would have been appreciated.
The engine is 10:1, some of the specs on the engine are in earlier videos. It's a flat tappet, SBC that was developed to test engine oils for Joe Gibbs Racing. It functioned as a screening tool for new formulas before going in actual race engines for final testing.
And if you don’t have enough compression to take advantage of the octane it won’t matter.
I run the exact same race fuel in my mustang with a Windsor and it loves VP95. Especially on a 100 shot.
That’s the 2nd time we’ve used that fuel, and it has performed great each time.
Interesting to see the difference in the fuel test .Over here in the UK, we dont have 91 octane gasoline, our lowest is 95 with E10 % ethanol unleaded + we have 98/99 octane with E5 % ethanol super unleaded. We also have a super unleaded without ethanol made by Esso 99 octane. On testing both super unleaded fuels in a 250cc 2 stroke race bike there is a 2 HP difference in power. There is a lot of talk about fuel in the UK
Thanks for the comment. It is important to note that petrol in the UK is reported as the RON (research octane number).
In the US, gasoline is reported as the MON+RON/2, so it is the average of the research octane number and the motor octane number (which is always less than the RON).
@@TotalSeal Hey thanks for your reply. Petrol is a hot topic over here , not just for the cost but since the addition of ethanol. We have scooters seizing up and older cars breaking down due to ethanol. Any Dyno testing I find interesting so your fuel test was great.
How do you even know if the octane numbers are even accurate.
The pump fuels can vary some in octane because the ethanol content will vary. That could be part of the variation we saw this year, and that is reason for us going to the specialist fuel - eliminate that variable.
Years ago I read that a BMW owner who was a chemical engineer sampled shell 93 because all of the owners swore by it and it tested out as 97 octane. Top tier shell gas premium has up to 6 times the minimum cleaners in vs no name 93
We use C-14+, and C-25. It would be great to see them tested.
Those are good fuels, but not for this little mild compression, test mule.
@@TotalSeal
Sure. I understand.
95 octane is not race gas guys that’s just premium gas, race gas is around 120 octane we ran 10 degrees advanced on the cam itself that were the real power comes from not just moving the distributor
Try using some klotz oil octane booster.,or hit rite by them either one you'll be surprised by the outcome of it to.
Gasoline is fungible. The gasoline from pumps on opposite sides of a city and three different name brands may all be from the same refinery. This is common practice in the industry.
It’s interesting seeing what people in other states are dealing with fuel. Being a Florida native I’ve never heard of summer fuel or winter fuel. JFYI I’ve never bought or owned any snow tires. We have 93 octane in Florida and some places you can get 100 octane. Look for air boats and crop planes. Mustangs love 100 octane
Thanks for the feedback! That is an interesting perspective.
Haha come on up to 44A where my play toy shop is based.
Fill up on some nice 100 low lead.
What's 44A you ask?
Ask Google (hint it's an airport).
We have a couple guys save their wing tank samples in a can and use it for the community push mower to mow around your plane if it's tied down outside. 😄
Haha it definitely helps on the stale fuel issue small engine guys hate.
I got told by a engineer working with oil and fuels that the octane level and the ethanol content in gas is calculated and not measured. This is why octane number and ethanol content is so inconsistent on gas stations he said.
And brands like boost / vp / Sunoco fuels made more pure but the cost is higher.
There is some truth to that. The octane of the base fuel is checked in the octane test engines at the refinery before it is shipped to the terminal. Because Ethanol increases the Octane, the final octane is calculated as you were told. As such, the 87 Octane pump fuel with 10% Ethanol was actually an 83 Octane fuel at the refinery.
How much does the VP cost verses the pump gas. Apparently theirs little difference in HP between the VP and pump gas. Sounds like a big commercial for VP gas. It appears from a value perspective your better off with the pump gas vs VP gas in a mild street application.
The VP is way more expensive, so we are not recommending anyone to switch to VP or any specific brand of fuel. We are switching to eliminate the seasonal variations of pump gas from our testing.
We can see how this looked like a VP commercial, but they had no involvement with this video. We picked and purchased the C20 on our own.
You guys need some lessons on where fuels come from, specifically in California but this applies to a lot of the western USA.
It has been a while, but you need to understand that VP is a good fuel, but it is a blended fuel and not a processed fuel. In other words, VP is a mixture of things, not direct from the refining process. Thus, it is actually the least consistent. But unlike blended fuels of 20 years ago, it at least will always meet a minimum Octane and BTU levels. This is why you feel it is consistent. But if you went and tested every batch of VP against what you get from a local name branded gas station such as the Mobil or Chevron you used in this video, you would find differences. The good news is that this differences would be that the VP would offer better performance since any error on the blend would tend to only improve the can of fuel you purchased. Another good thing is that unlike the fuel blending methods of 25 years ago, the equipment used today for this task is of higher quality, and the instrumentation and data acquisition is also superior since the control hardware and software is also improved.
ALL of the base fuel in California comes from the same source, and has the same basic formula... ALL of it! It doesn't matter which refinery it comes from, all of them make the same basic API / SAE standard unleaded fuel's at 87 and 91 octane. FYI to those that care, 89 is just a marketing ploy to get more money out of you. All 89 Octane fuels are either blended at the fuel rack by blending 50% 87 Octane and 50% 91 Octane. Some can pumps at stations actually do this when you pump the gasoline into your car. It will not give you any additional power, or fuel economy.
So what is the difference between the various brands of fuel? It is their additive package, that is it! So when a tanker truck goes to his dispatcher at a fuel distribution center he is handed a ticket to go deliver to a Shell Station. The fuel is then loaded into his truck and the Shell additive package is blended into the fuel as it is loaded into his truck. Off he goes and drops that load of fuel at the Shell station. He comes back and now he is given a ticket to go to a Chevron Station... Same thing, but they add the Chevron mix to make it the Chevron product. FYI, he then gets a 3rd load and he is going to deliver to a Non Branded independent station, you know, those that tend to be cheaper. Well, it is the same fuel, but it may, or may not get an additive package. This is why you'll see the term "Top Tier" gasoline. Top Tier is a brand of a good basic additive package that is recommend for use in todays fuel injected cars to prevent the accumulation of ugly stuff (technical term) in fuels. The top known national brands like the Shell's, Chevron, Mobil, Sunoco, 76, etc. all will have their own version of Top Tier, but it is their proprietary voodoo mix; and they are typically something better than the "Top Tier" brand.
Last input, the only refined racing fuel at this time is Sunoco. This is because they are the supplier to NASCAR and other racing series. So they need to refine a high enough volume to justify the use of a refinery to produce it. Before Sunoco was that official fuel it was Union 76, and that was the same story then.
I mix 110 "race fuel"with 92 octane in my 454 Chevelle with 10.25:1 compression. Cam is mild, 272 advertised but, the car runs so much better with some of the higher octane mixed in. Not sluggish, more power and quicker acceleration. So, it passes the seat of the pants dyno I guess. Lol
Yep! That compression ratio likes that extra octane.
Interesting. When you mix the race fuel and the 92 are you increasing the ignition timing? If not, I don't buy the increased performance, unless you're into detonation / pre ignition on straight 92 on its own. Fyi. I'm running 93 octane on my 10.75 454 at 36 degrees total timing.
How much octane is too much? Its a turbo cruze engine tuned for 91 octane. Suppose i want to try the 95, would it be so much higher that id lose power and efficiency due to the less volatility of the higher octane??
Octane and Volatility are not always related, so there is not necessarily too much octane.
Any octane higher than you need works against you. The pressure in the cylinder will not be enough for higher octane fuel to burn completely unless you advance the ignition timing but it has it's limits too. Unburnt fuel can damage the exhaust valves and other exhaust components.
No higher Oct will not hurt your motor. It will burn just as well as lower Oct when the spark plug fires.
It would be great if you can run the same test with Costco gasoline versus Shell, Chevron, and Mobil.... Lots of people I know believe that Shell gasoline is superior to all others in terms of horsepower, gas mileage, detergent cleaning power, etc. and I would love to find out if that's true or not. Thank you.
Great suggestion!
Can you do 1 with E10 fuel
I’m sure we can at some point. Just not sure when.
What's chemical in it to raise the octane?
There are several ways to raise octane. TetraEthyl Lead is one way, but these were all unleaded fuels.
If you don’t change timing you will not take advantage of whatever fuel you use. In fact, you can lose power.
Good point
Sounds like if you're a bracket racer you should use the C20 fuel?
It really depends on the compression ratio and operating temperature of your engine. The C20 is just a better option than pump fuel for this 10:1 engine.
c20 is 103 octane, where do you guys get 95?
The motor octane is 95 or 98.
They took away our ethanol up here. Which kind of sucks. A lot of horsepower left on the table having to dial back ignition under boost to compensate for 91-93 regular gas. Luckily I have a station that has usually a 12-15% in it and the motor runs way better than the big brands. I avoid shell now simply because it has zero in it. The NA daily though seems to not care what gas is in there though.
Thanks for sharing!
It's in the additive packages just like in oil!
More Don less Lake, dude, you're a bit annoying, Don is cool. While not unexpected, cool tests.
Check out dynodonnymac.com for more Don.
When tanker trucks deliver 87 to the gas station, they normally have a few hundred gallons extra and they dump it into a higher octane tank.
Tanker can unload extra gallons to nearby gas station😊
I had a new Mustang GT in 1988 and it would always ping under load on 87, but never with 91 octane. There was a couple times when I filled up with 91 and the car told me otherwise. Somewhere between the supplier and station operator there was a screw up or fraud. I complained to the station managers I didn't get the octane that I paid for and they weren't the least bit interested, so lost my business. In my state the county only checks that you get the quantity you pay, no consumer protection for getting the advertised octane rating.
Good old fraud, nice.
Absolutely do fucking not! You'd be fired for pulling that stunt. In fact high test gas is so controlled, the load arms at the terminal flush with premium every use. The only regular gas that's mixing with the premium is the few liters that are in the hose from they last car that filled up.
@craigquann The delivery options are up to the customer and they make more money when they tell the driver to put the excess in the high octane tank. High octane tanks usually never get filled completely because they have less demand and therefore have room for the lower octane fuel. The real world isn't always fair.
Your pump Gas changes Octane everyday.... Not chemically stable
Agreed. The degradation over time is not good.
@@TotalSeal 1 octane drop per day.
Can you test Sunoco v VP with your engine on the Dyno?
@@gj91471 hopefully we can do that one day.
Russian tests in Moscow and other cities didn't prove it. Even after 6 month 95 ron stays 95(in USA 91 oct), the same was with 92 ron(89 oct). Even fuels with mtbe stays in grade.....I also think that in summer or overtime mtbe will vaporize but ron stays 95 or very close..
@@killputler5006 Sounds like You have access to Fuels that are Chemically Stable.
Which 3 Fuels?
Они копируют стиль общения из придурочных американских мультиков.
How bout you test pump gas brands against each other instead of putting them up against race fuel? Cause everyone and their dog knows race fuel is better..
We did test two brands of pump gas against each other.
this would have been a lot better if you two would not talk over each other. Speak one at a time please